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17246478e7af-2 | transition strategy shabnam nasimi former policy advisor to the UK Minister for refugees and Minister for Afghan resettlement UK shabnam is a political commentator on British politics foreign policy immigration and ethnic minorities Eunice okasi partner Eva in Germany he's been head of the office of Christian Democratic Union general secretary and first individual with a migration background to hold this position shabnam I'll begin with you you're a prominent British Afghan political social activists you were just eight years old when you fled your home country and uh that's when the Taliban came in you once said I took my Refugee status as an opportunity and not a disadvantage tell us your story of course um so my family migrated to the UK in 1999 during the first era of Taliban rule in Afghanistan and it was me and my sister uh with my family uh who fled um and as we've seen now recently um and as has become evident Afghanistan is no place for a girl to study uh and um | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-3 | no place for a girl to study uh and um have any sort of aspirations and hopes and so that's what one of the reasons why we left the country and over the last 24 years or so um my family and myself have spent much of our time and the opportunities that have been presented to people uh like us to be able to speak for the people of Afghanistan um who are one of the most disadvantaged deprived nations in the world and particularly post August 2021 uh when the Taliban returned it has been devastating for so many across the world particularly the diaspora community who have I guess there's a sense of responsibility and Duty uh particularly when there's media suppression in the country there's very little coverage of what's going on inside uh on the ground uh it is up to People Like Us who have those connections a cultural understanding religious understanding geopolitical understanding to be able to make the global Community aware of what's happening in inside and it is honestly uh | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-4 | happening in inside and it is honestly uh catastrophic I think one of the things that I've seen just um have been inspired by attending the rice Cedar conference this year this is my first time in a South Asian country neighboring Afghanistan seeing particularly women so prominent speakers and in government positions and I think that's something that has made it a lot more pressing now to try and see how we can make sure that we support the women of Afghanistan uh as you may have heard on the news they are banned from going to school going to University from working from having any public profile or role in society which is why we're now at a critical juncture this might seem like a far away problem but I don't think ignoring Afghanistan is ever going to be the solution it can't be a far away problem uh for for long 9 11 happened because we ignored six years of Taliban all inside the country and it you know my hope and what so many of us have been | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-5 | my hope and what so many of us have been advocating for is we don't want a return of another horrendous terrorist islamist attack anywhere in the world both outside but also inside the country for us to begin to pay attention and think of this as a serious problem not only for for the country but for the global Community do you have family and relatives in uh friends in Afghanistan do they tell you oh of course my my maternal family my grandparents aunts cousins they're all inside the country and particularly for the female members of my family who aren't unable to to um to be educated I'm constantly in contact trying to see what I can do just last week one of my young female cousins who is living in Kabul um is unable to go to university but she's asked if I can find help for her to get a laptop so that she can study at least at home and find a way to continue her education within her household so the the connection and the the um the | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-6 | household so the the connection and the the um the problems inside the country is very close to home for me it's something I'm having to face and deal with on a regular basis which is why it's so much more pressing to see what we can do yeah gosh shabnam uses the terms like catastrophic and devastating it's these are terms you must have heard you know being since you served as senior advisor for strategic engagement at usaid um you must have heard these terms so often when talking about Afghanistan what in your opinion led the U.S to leave Afghanistan in such a hurry it led to the Total Wipeout of all that was achieved in 20 years right so I think I I'd agree with her and her use of the terms that she mentioned um I was in Kabul at the U.S embassy for a little short of three years so I had the pleasure and honor to work in our mission there why we left I think the short answer to that is that the support | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-7 | think the short answer to that is that the support for the Afghan Mission among the American public was veining and it has been 20 years and I think the public American public that is didn't see a way out of it and saw this a never-ending ever going sort of a military campaign or at least a military presence so both president Trump and President Biden I think were looking for a way out got the way out it was certainly something that most of the military and the civilian folks that had served in Afghanistan took it very hard including myself I think the way we left was dishonorable perhaps and certainly a one can talk about a betrayal but that's a use but I have to say is a betrayal more of our own Vision our own ambition but we never made a promise to Afghanistan that will always be there so that the promise to Afghanistan was to help Afghanistan stand on its feet and after 20 years not being able to do so people said we'll cut | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-8 | not being able to do so people said we'll cut our losses and leave now this argument could be made that we should have stayed there longer I certainly made that argument and believe in that particular case but but you're a democratic country and you respond to people there are having said that I want to make a couple of points I think just to go off it one that it is probably one of the worst sort of the top three big Refugee humanitarian crisis Syria Venezuela Afghanistan it's kind of if you look at the U.N HCR reports there are about six million people since 2021 since we left have been displaced about half of them are internally within Afghanistan about 2.5 have went refugees outside most of them are in Pakistan and Iran followed by turkey and Germany and the rest and almost 80 percent of them are women and children of after 6 million displaced so um and and the biggest sort of humanitarian crisis is one of hunger and starvation I mean even on | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-9 | one of hunger and starvation I mean even on a when we were there uh for in the Hunger issue and being able to get the nutrient value was was tough even with the American presence when we were there it's a country that takes its caloric intake is heaviest on Wheats as a non-eating country it eats a lot it Imports a lot of not only wheat but Milling from Pakistan other places so the there's the humanitarian crisis and related to that there is also a food security crisis which is further and for all of us who especially in this sort of liberal era where people talk a lot about women's rights and others I think the biggest plight in Afghanistan is off the women the children and the greatest lost we fell was I mean one of the things we used to often say but what was the great uh you know assets what have you done in Afghanistan the most important thing we always said was when we started there there were no women in school while the time we | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-10 | there were no women in school while the time we ended there were like 50 of the students were women so you had all this and Afghanistan is a younger country and then India so you know 70 80 percent of them are under 25 30 years old so most of that people have only seen life with U.S presence in the country with having internet and all the rest and the school and the opening and so for them to take this shock all of a sudden is actually substantially more dark and Stark than it was in the previous era so because they had more and they lost more than the last go-around so by every stretch of imagination it's a something that we can all take a collective responsibility that we weren't able to do it most responsibility lies on Afghan rulers and Afghan leaders because at the end of the day it wasn't Americans or NATO or the Coalition it was really Afghan leaders who let Afghan but Afghan young population was let down yes I think by us all okay I'm | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-11 | let down yes I think by us all okay I'm going to get to the Betrayal part later in the podcast Eunice I'll come to you um the food security part that Kosh mentioned and uh so did shabnam you know they need food right the most important part is that the basics they need um Germany recently pledged an aid of 90 million euros and uh even as a report came out that 24 million of guns they need immediate help now yesterday I did a podcast in which uh there was a journalist and what she said was that the aid is not reaching the Afghans how to stem this how to stem this problem this is the biggest problem I think that we have from the German perspective from the European perspective this is exactly that we have been doing for the last years since the US have been there over 45 Nations have been in Afghanistan we haven't helped them so much um educate enable soldiers democracy Etc this one thing that we have learned very sad to say | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-12 | one thing that we have learned very sad to say but we cannot export democracy somewhere where we want to have it that's the first thing and the second thing if we have been seeing and why this fail of Afghanistan came so fast of those two days or three days is because the whole help that we have been doing for the Afghan National Army it have been so corrupt people haven't know if they get paid or not paid giving them so many weapons Etc they also the Taliban reached those weapons that we have sending for the Afghan National Army and the same is also with the food security that you have been talking about now is that we are helping the Afghans and we want to help them this and willing also from the European perspective also if you can't see that outside of Europe but there is a willing to help the Afghans but also the truth is we don't know who's reaching this help on not switching this app so this is sadly to say and I think this | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-13 | so this is sadly to say and I think this is the one thing that we have worked on that there were mistakes made uh which you know we discussed this uh right at the beginning that you know the the weapons that is falling in the hands now there's Narco trade there's all kinds of things which are happening if we if we focus on the things which went wrong uh and the Afghans pay the price for it you know Pakistan's interference for example um what do you think that you know where all did the West go wrong um with regard to Pakistan using Afghanistan as a backyard using military uh their military to Taliban contact and that continues even now take probably more than 30 minutes that we've got here to discuss and it's been talked about a lot so I don't want to rehash sure but what about now let's see now let's not talk about the past has the West which is like including Europe uh has America learned from those lessons or have they just washed | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-14 | learned from those lessons or have they just washed their hands off that we can't deal with this anymore no I think one of the things we're very good at especially our military is about Lessons Learned so I think you know one can look at in real time the changes that were made in our military posture in a civil coordination in both Iraq and Afghanistan I think that's exemplary a huge fan of that but so of course our military has taken and taken a lot of lessons from so the kinetic part of it but again Afghanistan was not a military failure it was a political diplomatic failure so I think it's important to mention both Iraq and Afghanistan often are couched as if American military-led and somehow led the nation of the world down they won every task that was given to them it was the Diplomatic political solution at the end of it which I think there's a lot to be desired and certainly the deal that was made started by on the president Trump and then | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-15 | was made started by on the president Trump and then by concluded with President Biden I think diplomatically which is basically said we need to leave Taliban we need to really leave and we'll take your word that you'll be good that to what you stale us will do it especially on women's right and then didn't pan out and nobody really had dealt with Taliban or broadly of Afghanistan for the last 20 years should have believed it or had any ground to believe it having but having left on this issue now we are kind of not in a particular position to bilaterally engage with Afghanistan largely because of Taliban so the way of Engagement in Afghanistan today is primarily through U.N or multilateral agencies either it's the unhcr either it's world food program those are the entity to do so and that's on the humanitarian side of stuff again we cannot have back to my political argument you keep losing they keep lying to you and you still start making a deal and so we | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-16 | and you still start making a deal and so we can so it had this Taliban particular deal now they've they said they will take care of the rights that were provided to the women they did not education initially they did it now they're even drawing from it so then working with them and providing support further just undermines your own engagement and it doesn't lead to any effective results sure humanitarian side I think substantially the way the West is already working at that is through un through the World Bank through the Asian the open bank to the where's appropriate the second element is now it's really the neighbor and the region to provide a solution more than Europe or west even so it depends on how much our Central Asian countries willing to step in they haven't relatively speaking with their refugees and the support as much as Pakistan and Iran have been the biggest sort of so a regional solution for Afghanistan is probably the way to go and we can support that perhaps okay you know when we talk about | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-17 | support that perhaps okay you know when we talk about the failures to the people of a country especially Afghanistan it doesn't matter whether it was a military success but a political failure military success but a diplomatic failure as far as they are concerned there's no food on the table not even a table there's no food the children can't go to school the women can't go to work they can't go to school they can't go to colleges so so you know it's it's a failure all around one how what is the solution to that because the world seems at you know there's there's a fatigue which has come in nobody wants to discuss it even at at uh seminars and conferences Afghanistan has just fallen off the map everybody's talking about the Ukrainian conflict or Central Asia but this has to really fallen off that the high table let me say that um is a regional solution possible even even if you see it in security terms there is no one view on the on | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-18 | security terms there is no one view on the on this because when the security Conference was held in December everybody in the region has a different boy whether it's Uzbekistan Pakistan India Iran everybody in this area has a different solution to uh Afghanistan yes yes um thank you well look I think first and foremost we are 18 months in since the Taliban takeover and I think one of the reasons why there is so much fatigue confusion as to what the solution would be is people's understanding of the Taliban now the the regular response I get is this is an Afghan problem it is now up to the de facto Afghan authorities to figure out a way out through this this mess and support its people however when it comes to the country itself even when it was the Doha peace process between the US and the Taliban and you know going back Generations the fate of Afghans has never been decided by Afghans uh themselves it's always been either decided from outside or by other political leaders | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-19 | been either decided from outside or by other political leaders and the global community and that is where the problem is the people of Afghanistan did not welcome the Taliban with open arms they were not elected they didn't go enter the country um through the will of the people they were they came in through violence and through fear which is what their what did which which is what their tool is today in order to be able to control a country now you mentioned some of the really good points around humanitarian issues I mean for example 20 almost 28.3 million uh people the UN has reported is on the brink of starvation there's displacement uh 75 of the population is under 25 which makes it a very young country that has not lived through the first era of Taliban rule so this is all very new um and so if we're expecting the people of the country to figure out a solution we need to first of all acknowledge what their will is and what what their way out is people compare Afghanistan to Ukraine | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-20 | their way out is people compare Afghanistan to Ukraine and other countries Ukraine you provided weapons billions of Aid to fight how can we expect the people of Afghanistan to fight for their rights on an empty stomach with no weapons when weapons were collected actually the men of the Taliban came returned to Afghanistan in August that went house to house took everyone's weapons so no one can form any sort of form of resistance or social change or actively stand up for their rights um so I think I agree very much so that the Western interest has sort of diminished and I think for many people inside the country the expectation now now is to see muslim-majority countries to stand up and to speak up for the people that this is not Islamic what you're doing to the people of Afghanistan whether it's on education on work on compulsory hijab on all these sort of every aspect of a person's life this is not what Islam teaches because there are many as you I hope you will agree Muslim countries around | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-21 | as you I hope you will agree Muslim countries around the world where Women's Rights human rights are respected um and actually today Amnesty International has um called for an urgent independent uh investigative mechanisms to be put in place to investigate the human rights violations that have taken place over the last couple of uh of months um so there is clearly I mean in the 21st century it is a human tragedy that this is taking place in the heart of Asia um and so for a solution to be made we need to start engaging with the people uh what people are frustrated in seeing as well is that when U.N delegates um visit Afghanistan to put pressure on the Taliban to meet with the Taliban they're not meeting with the women who are out on the streets risking their lives protesting uh every few months uh for for their for their right to education or for their right to work with the slogan work food Freedom um we're still it's we don't seem to learn from our | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-22 | still it's we don't seem to learn from our mistakes we're still repeating the same thing that we did over the last 20 years or in terms of the history of Afghanistan the people don't seem to matter and that's where that sense of betrayal and heartache comes from when will the International Community recognize what the will of the people is and I think that's what's something we need to start recognizing and take into account you just have a question back so which country do you see to to lead this if when you when you was talking about Muslim countries need to stood up and say so whom do you seen that so if you take names I mean of course which country Qatar for example I see I would think why doesn't OIC step in yeah why why always look towards the EU or towards America why not there are rich countries in the organization of Islamic countries yes absolutely that's right but I don't think it's a good idea to make it as a religious religion problem would you say | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-23 | make it as a religious religion problem would you say that those countries who are having the same religion should get take more care about it or not I what I'm what I was missing now is what kind of role the Afghans in Afghanistan what kind of food they can take care of what kind of what they can do now this is what I was missing so is there anything that Afghanistan they can't do anything in the country how can you do something with an empty stomach and nothing to fight for it's it's unrealistic and I think that's what the frustration is comes from how does the world expect the people inside the country the men and women the children to fight for their rights when there is no Global support and when you talk about what Muslim countries stand on one side Iran and the other Central Asian countries the Arab League there's a huge Global community and I'm not saying that Muslim countries need to care more than the rest of the world I'm saying we share the values more closely | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-24 | I'm saying we share the values more closely with the Muslim countries and more importantly the Taliban are introducing laws based on Sharia law there needs to be more clarity and engagement with the Taliban to make it clear that this is not Islamic in any way in form absolutely I'm I'm absolutely underline it but I don't know if Pakistan and Iran are the white Partners For That so that's that that's the sad thing also you need to you need also to see the realistic how is going on I mean Iran and Pakistan is not seriously the winner I was making point of the neighbors but there is I mean exactly and that's the problem so the neighbors also also at the right labels yeah so that's a frustration and it's not that you don't have any Global support there is a big Global support and it was there for more over the years and years and years for Global support what is the global support right now by condemning every time there's some sort of a new order by the | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-25 | time there's some sort of a new order by the Taliban the international response we hear is we condemn this this needs to go beyond condemnation you need to hold them to account where are the mechanisms we talked about Aid earlier you mentioned that Aid is a first of all the Taliban banned women from working for ngos recently which as a result major International organizations like save the children oxfang except Care International and others stop their work and any Aid there that is currently provided is going through the Taliban there is no mechanism of accountability taking place rural communities are not accessing this Aid so what we're doing is this is a problem that the last 20 years mistakes are repeated again you are not looking at this in a transparent way you are still engaging with the Taliban uh as though nothing has changed um there are actively actions that can be taken we are just not willing to take those actions that's the problems you know EU itself has I think uh since 2016 | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-26 | know EU itself has I think uh since 2016 given some five billion dollars right so the European way of doing things is here take the money to as we this is not maybe the right way and it's also not take the money and this is exactly not what you want to do I mean you have a good place in the heart I'm not 40. questioning that over 45 Nations have been taking any role about Afghanistan for the last years and the question is also this is exactly what we have been told talking about before I mean what's the result of that what is the result of this over 45 Nations have been taken care of for years and years and years what's the result what's the result the result the last 20 years was the result the last 20 years I just remember actually traveling to Afghanistan from the last uh from 2006 onwards every year and whilst I'm not saying that the international intervention in Afghanistan was perfect it was far from it uh there was Corruption of course | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-27 | was far from it uh there was Corruption of course there was still security issues but every time I visited I saw hope there was more whip girls in school than any other time there was a change in in political system more women were in Parliament there were introductions around human rights across the country I mean there was a clear change I think what Eunice is saying is that that was the path and that is the time when they should have seized control I think that's what you're getting absolutely because yes what has happened is this slide into the Taliban rule is what is causing the fatigue and the frustration in many Western democracies that we've done what we could and Afghanistan hasn't stepped up or the Afghans didn't step up I understand your point of view that how do you step up on an empty stomach but that's now right that that window of opportunity that was there that didn't happen gosh this I need to come back to Pakistan I will come back to | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-28 | to come back to Pakistan I will come back to you because you're the American sitting out here so I am going to come back to you that you know when we talk about uh the the situation yesterday at at this podcast that we were doing it comes to the same thing unless you stop terrorism in a country nothing else works so America did not it kept using Pakistan as the front line non-fighting Terror and by doing that you made Afghanistan fall more and more into the abyss it was like wearing blinkers all the time why didn't the Americans realize that this slide is going to happen so there are two parts one I I think you're misstating the fact substantially which is that we don't know the threat that Pakistan poses to Afghanistan so we were there in the military there's there's American blood on hands of the people that you're referring to so we are very well aware of how much the sort of activities that happen from Pakistan over to Afghanistan the second part is related to | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-29 | over to Afghanistan the second part is related to what can you really do about Pakistan and be our ability to say okay there shall be no terrorism in Pakistan I don't think anybody in Pakistan can decide that and control it let alone somebody in America Pakistan is a is an interesting uh and increasingly perhaps rapidly going through a failed State because of the inherent inconsistencies within it governing system it's a governing structure which is a a deal between the landowner Community between I think the more fundamentalist group and the Army and and at that some at some point of time there was some order to this bizarre tripartite relationship increasingly it's unfurling now you see that neither one of them are in fully control of where it heads so the internal system and durations of Pakistan are such that the idea that somehow we or anybody else can force Pakistan to sort of abide by one way or the other it's not possible even even the Army cannot do it and it isn't presence I think | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-30 | cannot do it and it isn't presence I think you can have this engagement so yeah the issue being yes Pakistan remains a source of instability in Afghanistan you and I may defer as to how well Pakistan is able to sort of it has an Ebbs and flow in it and certainly it had a when we were there you had a little bit of a control but now that's Fallen apart and even Taliban and Pakistan is having a increasingly sort of fractured relationship even today and I think more so as it goes on yeah so that's the so that's a complicated person I know we are sitting in India so Pakistan is a Hot Topic and I'm happy to talk about it but I think a a bigger issue is to refer back to what can we do I mean we can cut this 17 different ways but the realistic one so I both agree with shabnam and I think it's really people like yourself who will keep the call going because the rest of us have moved on to | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-31 | going because the rest of us have moved on to indo-pacific and foip in Ukraine and so it'd be people like yourself will have to continue to make sure we don't forget so that's number one and then second you'll have to be realistic when you say you got the whole Taliban accountable how we don't have those tools we're not giving money to Taliban when you say don't give money to Taliban then you'll have a humanitarian cries and you'll say okay now we're not giving money at all and people are dying so it's a we don't have that many chits to play with Taliban so the question really at the end of the day comes up and I also slightly take a different view Afghans have been fighting an empty stomach through entire their entire history they're tough Fighters so fighting on empty stomach is not neither new nor foreign to them they can do that but there is an issue that at the end of the day Afghans have to determine | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-32 | the end of the day Afghans have to determine whatever the future is The Outsiders have tried it now the Brits the Russians and us and it hasn't really worked and so whatever that shape takes away when there will be a a worthy group within Afghanistan that we can support I think you'll find support again yes in absence of that you're in a situation where you're literally limited to engaging with humanitarian and U.N agency one more step though I think there's a there's always a theme at risina which first of all thanks to RF thanks to you it's I think you're the best sort of gallery of people interesting people coming together um there's always a theme that you know where the world is too U.S Reliant we can do it India is leading the G20 the global South we have the voices other configurations should come up well I completely agree with shabnam have at it tell us how the other configuration works in your neighborhood and resolve it don't always come to us then to that | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-33 | resolve it don't always come to us then to that we fail this this is a fantastic opportunity let India Take the Lead work with Indonesia a country the largest Muslim country completely detached taken the least amount of refugees from Afghanistan let them Step Up gutter I too you too another relationship with the UAE and with gutter they are both UAE and gutter are becoming the biggest investment in financial Hub into Central Asia largely and Caucasus area have at it work towards the Great Central Asian country so this is a fantastic opportunity for the so-called Global South and his anointed leaders to come and find and say this is how it's done and I would be the first one to say Anna that is fantastic they got together and they showed the right way so it'll be nice to put some words and walk the talk which we hear all the time about how how are we going to do it right before I come to you shabnam I'm going to ask one last question to you Eunice | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-34 | going to ask one last question to you Eunice um you know this Global South taking the lead on it which uh which America keeps saying this and even in India say that we need to do it but the global South is so divided right now and more so because of you know the Asian conflict and because of uh supply chain issues because of the Asian conflict the book The War Ukrainian Russian war all these issues now tell me what is the bandwidth left in Europe to deal with this Afghan issue now or are they just done with it that fatigue no we are definitely not done I mean you need to know the biggest Afghan community in Europe is in Germany first of all I mean exactly what we have been saying we have so many people in Europe we have so many people from Afghanistan there are many people and that's definitely nothing that we will not forget what we have been doing and there is still support coming from Germany from European Union uh this is definitely we are not done but | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-35 | Union uh this is definitely we are not done but I just can underline what the previous speaker have been saying is if there is someone to support then I think the support will get back this is definitely the case right a final comments uh shabnam you've heard both the gentleman what do you have to say look I understand that Afghanistan is an incredibly complex country uh suffering I miss over over 43 years of conflict internal conflict but also before that in terms of its history and geographical position but I think that you know I understand the concerns in terms of well what do we do you know we can what's done is done uh we've got to look at the next phase now and there are lots of things that can be done um like I said I very much stress that the fate of the people of Afghanistan has never been decided inside and with the people um so I think a political opposition is already starting to perform there are people both inside and outside the country who are | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-36 | are people both inside and outside the country who are working towards some sort of a United position on the future of the country I'd love to see the International Community the west and other neighbors to support this movement and provide that platform amplifying uh their voices to create a credible uh transparent United political opposition because I don't think the Taliban will last this is uh you can't control the country through through fear oh my god I've heard this too long in Afghanistan and and there will be at some point and that I think I completely agree the problem with Afghanistan is every few years there's a new system you know we bring some sort of solution and then it turns back yes so I I get that and it is unfortunate that that's the way it is for for Afghanistan in terms of history and its position um but I do believe that this isn't going to last why is there no resistance like even in Iran you know with the with regard to the hijab thing you saw resistance | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-37 | regard to the hijab thing you saw resistance but this is nothing that you're seeing anymore in Afghanistan it's like as if they've accepted the Fate well look you can't the the comparison between Iran and Afghanistan is that Afghanistan um is an incredibly uh patriarchal but also a very traditional Society we still haven't seen men come out in the streets supporting women and standing alongside them in terms of Education Iran of course it's it's further ahead and the people recognize what their rights are even within Afghanistan um the one of the people that we do see out on the streets are the educated those in capital cities they're all communities you've got to recognize your human right first before you stand out you know and speak up um so I think for Afghanistan even in the last 20 years some of the mistakes we made we net into your International organizations didn't actually tap in and work with rural communities those who don't have access to technology don't have access to uh | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-38 | have access to technology don't have access to uh to sort of uh the progressive uh demand for democracy and freedom it's working with those educate them and understanding what they're human right unfortunately like I said Afghanistan is still decades apart even from in comparison to its neighboring countries and so what we what we saw in Iran probably is not something we're going to see in Afghanistan anytime soon but what I am trying to say I guess is those who are able to speak up whether they're inside or outside uh diaspora lead movements those are the people that we need to try to help because ignoring Afghanistan can't be a solution we can't say it's the fatigue this is what you know Afghanistan history it is what it is um it's up to you know we've got to leave them figure out let them to figure it out you know for how long and we've got to be ignoring Afghanistan and we've got a you know this is a time where we've got to prove | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-39 | know this is a time where we've got to prove we're going to be in the right side of History because you know millions of lives are on the line right now Eunice what about the the refugees uh you know who who are there in Germany what about their cultural uh integration is it complete or like shabnam said in you know that she used that as an opportunity she didn't let it uh you know curb her tell her being a refugee in a European country what about in Germany how is that there I think I mean we are I mean the question is who's coming to Germany what kind of what kind of people are coming what kind of refugees this is the first question I can just tell from my perspective uh from the first Refugee let's call it crisis in Europe that we had to 2014 2015 2016. so I've co-founded with some friends of mine and online digitalization university where especially people from Afghanistan who came to Germany who doesn't have any documents any papers if | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-40 | to Germany who doesn't have any documents any papers if they have any degrees on that degree just to study online just to have be there for two years to study online to to collect their credits to reach and bachelor degree after the two years we can see what the German government is saying if they can't stay or not staying not to losing their time to study to have the education and the third year to graduate after this after everything is clarified if they have the German skills if they are integrated if they have a possibility to stay just not to lose any time and I think this is the things that we are needing if people if they're coming to a country not to lose time and to think about what they're gonna do when I get my documents to use the time to be integrated to be educated this is the thing what we can do and I think we have many Afghans as I say the biggest community in Europe is Germany we have over 400 000 Afghans in Germany and I think there | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-41 | 400 000 Afghans in Germany and I think there are many people of them integrated look at us I have self my roots somewhere else as in Germany my parents of America so there is always a way if there's a willing right gosh the final word I'll give to you you have National Security experience too you know the in the past couple of years there's been talk that you have to see this from a security perspective too the Indian National Security advisor said that there's needs to evolve a mechanism uh where there's intelligence and security cooperation on Afghanistan to set aside differences that you may have about what Afghanistan needs what Afghanistan wants to set aside Regional needs you know like or national needs like what India thinks Afghanistan needs or what Pakistan thinks in Afghanistan needs and just get down to cracking on on icekb on Taliban on whatever is needed to bring about first peace and security there and then deal with the other issues can you do that as piecemeal first of all it's | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-42 | do that as piecemeal first of all it's very case specific so I think you never go into any of the National Security issues with just one you'd react to the system as you've heard several times in the Army uh you know you have a plan and the first thing you time you hit in the face out goes the plan so I think it's the nimbleness of how do you work the largely the impact on the security time would be to contain the security threats from Afghanistan in the region so that would be and that's what particularly of you know India has a point of view but certainly if Pakistan and Iran and Central Asia has it and that's why central Asia is not taking refugees and taking a pretty strong line so that's that perspective and I think sharing of information that's all that's happening you heard the quad doing an anti-terror so that's sort of a stuff we're doing it anyway and there will be in but you have to deal with two important issues one you know | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-43 | have to deal with two important issues one you know those who have served in Afghanistan from our side it's very easy to fall in love with the country and its people so it's it's tough I mean it's a lifelong friendships in the in the sort of war zone so it's very tough to leave those people and even today help them as much as one can in individual way the second I've never ever served in a country where I was more impressed by the women than I was in Afghanistan and so because the the the the hunger for knowledge was so palpable and so dominant in Afghanistan especially in stark contrast with Afghan men who were you know more reserved and so if you ask the question an interview where do you see yourself five or ten years of a man and a woman in Afghanistan a woman would invariably say prime minister or president of Afghanistan a man would say you know I don't know make stuff up so the greatest loss we have had really is | Aehjt59H-hY |
17246478e7af-44 | up so the greatest loss we have had really is of Afghan women now having said that the greatest Legacy that America and NATO's left in Afghanistan was really the aspirations of his young people and so we hope that through that comes the new Afghanistan and whenever that is we'll be ready to sort of help and move it forward but at this moment realistically the security threat will be to look at and say hey nothing comes out but the humanitarian issue is within it and that will just do as best as we can through proxies the U.N and other International till we get to another spot so new Afghanistan we shall have a new discussion on that thank you gentlemen thank you shabnam thank you for watching or listening to this podcast do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste click here to watch the previous episodes foreign [Music] thank you [Music] | Aehjt59H-hY |
2f7870da3540-0 | I always believe journey is much more important than destination all your bad work becomes your great stories later on my name is always the easy target I think anybody who casts Fort is political if anybody talks about India people think that he is in politics through your podcast I want to say that that I am india-centric I don't carry the burden of anupam Care on my shoulders because it's too tiring and it's too boring the innocence of coming from a small town uh played a very important role in my life my biggest fear is to lose memory and we complicate our own mind life according to me is 90 monotony and 10 excitement foreign to say that we should get guests from other cities into our Delhi Studios it wasn't too easy so we took our crew to Mumbai the city that never sleeps today my guest is a noted film actor anupam kher anupam kher has acted in over 500 films he's acted in films made in the UK in the U.S | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-1 | acted in films made in the UK in the U.S and is active on social media too anupam kher is more than just an actor he's been awarded the padmashree in 2004 and Padma bhushan in 2017. so let's get on with the conversation anupam ji thank you so much for coming on my podcast I've been wanting to have you on the podcast right from when I started so thank you very much I'm good it's a pleasure talking to you always and I'm in your city uh so I wanted you to come to Delhi but then next time we'll have you in Delhi um to start about you know your film how do you keep track all joking because I think uh I've gone through such tough times when I was looking for work uh three years of tough situations I mean that was a gold medalist from drama school but over here hairstyle was much more important than talent and I was not having supporting the best hairstyle this is a very dignified | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-2 | the best hairstyle this is a very dignified sexy bald look but it is dignified very late very late but when initially you lose an early 80s there is no possibility I don't know why they thought that assistant director writers good looking but a cliche so at that time then I till today I used to write diary and I used to say 57 films yeah yeah because such a path breaking film that film comes back to me at various stages in life yeah you know it first made us aware of raw grief but at that time as you know some I had not experienced grief I was like lucky I guess but when I saw you emote that role uh it was like hit in the solar plexus it was because I was 28 and I was supposed to be playing the 65 year old man who has lost his only son in America [Music] when I started shooting 29 when the film released and uh so it I'm glad a lot of people say I will give my left arm | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-3 | lot of people say I will give my left arm to be again if I was asked to do because it established me as an actor for the rest of my life memories I think the way that person dealt with that Bibi Pradhan that was the name of my character the way he dealt with was also gave courage so I think at that time Mr bhart Mahesh bhaji was going through a certain Journey or because January 1984. I was trying to be that old man um foreign established don't want a newcomer they want an established actor so they have taken a new Fantastic actor like Sanjeev Kumar but you do the other old man's role so in this story I have told million times but every time the story is very important lesson for a lot of people that never give up so or tell people what you want to say so I when he said that this city does not deserve me I got somebody like Mahesh but sahab can do something like this then I don't think to | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-4 | can do something like this then I don't think to take a train and go back to Shimla or to Delhi or to Lucknow if you want to be equal with anybody in the world just don't expect anything from him or her foreign was not working I walked up the sixth floor and you opened the door and he said they are fantastic foreign but at that time it was I was crying I was disappointed uh images but I was genuine and he was genuine I must say that it takes two people to make truth listen to it so I can't take credit for it it I ultimately credit goes to him because sarash is a baby of Mahesh but I'm an instrument but the fact that if I had not gone to his house you see grief has to be let out otherwise [Music] that's why baby Pradhan is very attractive as a person as a personality because he deals with the dignity um when my father died he was my best friend my best friend but I could say | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-5 | my best friend my best friend but I could say anything to him about any topic he was my biggest admirer and my biggest fan who barely played silica pictures when he died uh um it was very strange that he unfortunately died with some strange disease which made him feel that the food is sand and water is acid so he starved to death and I don't know some weird thing was and he was 84 and he was used to walk 10 to 12 kilometers every day and then when he um passed away just before I had told my brother because he was living with him and my father did not have the energy to say anything because he was not eating naughty Smiley I could gauge that is foreign because he could not form sentences so he was disappointed then he called me to his mouth and I brought my ear very close and for a person who was going to die another 20 minutes his last two words were live life so then I decided of course I cried and everything but | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-6 | I decided of course I cried and everything but then I decided I must not moan his death I must celebrate his life foreign way to get our grief when you celebrate the loss of somebody of course the person has to live that life a tragic loss of at a young age it's very difficult but I can imagine your father's reaction at your brothers it's not when fathers biggest losses when is before him his son goes away which you have to feel and you know my psychologist my psychiatrist says that he says men are often to Pennsylvania be strong I think women were not working but your age people my age people my brothers your brothers attached to it is something very very personal deep Rhona is letting go or what letting gohe it's important for as an artist henna I you can use that sometimes as an artist because we all need to be real problem is in life I know that acting actresses mostly the problems that we try to be somebody else that is why we are | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-7 | try to be somebody else that is why we are trying to be somebody else we are not if we are my strength is if I am myself on my shoulders because it's too tiring and it's too boring and I'm not saying it just for the effect I genuinely don't feel I don't I don't like bodyguards I don't like people to helping me uh check in pick up my bag and things like that because that that's a stopping me from my being my being free Pancho roll how can you be yourself because in every role you become the role um I'm sure you must have been affected by what that actor said but it's my actors [Music] which were stayed with me I can count them on my fingers my first rule of course because it really really affected me uh but it affected me also in a great way because I all my life wanted to become that person you wanted to become I I what an amazing principle okay uh and because I was the producer of the | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-8 | okay uh and because I was the producer of the film also is yeah so I literally studied a lot but studies in fact I recently met a very very well known neurologist why Buddha never got Alzheimer's uh but it's my job to do that scene that well and that happens with the only people who are not educated actors you became a father at 49 at 29. I became a father 29. well that's a believability that the joy actress uh foreign Instagram account and see his interaction with his mother she is amazing if you think he has a sense of humor please listen to his mother cracking jokes on uh on on pubg and dulari G's escapades are something else it's it's something that that you that'll make your day so tell me so when you used to do dad roles didn't your mother she didn't have that kind of uh intellectual capability as long as I was on the screen that was the biggest uh things to tell your masses and your neighbors my father | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-9 | things to tell your masses and your neighbors my father was like that okay um [Music] [Music] contrary on the other side my father will tell the whole world he will he never used to travel by flight um so he will call me at 1 30 2 o'clock in the night from uh some station or sometime when the mobile came from the mobile and he will make me speak to them and then if I speak to them then we'll see my father was my biggest fan biggest fan and so all the father roles that you played do you uh they were derived from somebody about comical families foreign foreign the innocence of coming from a small town uh played a very important role in my life because I was born and brought up in Shimla till I was 19. and you keep going back Hannah for a long time I did not go back because after my father passed away my mother shifted with my brother my name is she didn't like it at all exactly she said foreign [Music] you | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-10 | it at all exactly she said foreign [Music] you can't stop it of course later things changed I took her to Simla and she just kept looking and I took her to Simla club and many articles how she used to be in Simla when she used to say I'm looking okay the women they used to sit near the fire the Indian officers they were not allowed to go near the fire yes officers wives could went to the bathroom powder their noses so I took her there and then she kept staring and I thought she didn't say anything and then I took her to maal uh I took her to lakad Bazar 1930s completely different world but I tried the same thing yeah but it didn't work with Amma you know people talk about what is your biggest fear it my biggest fear is to lose memory because you if you lose memory then there is nothing that is there no I feel so sad that dilip Kumar was a loss of memory yeah what an amazing actor amazing Storyteller | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-11 | memory yeah what an amazing actor amazing Storyteller uh amazing person with great knowledge you could talk to him about anything in the world during the shooting of foreign [Music] and then unfortunately he lost memory so I think when I did many Gandhi kunai Mara that I met a lot of people with Alzheimer's and um because etc etc so they have vacant eyes it's not expressionless eyes also they are vacant eyes so I think that was you've acted with some phenomenal actors yes you've been very I shouldn't say lucky because then your mother will say okay what's up but yes I was I'm very fortunate to have worked not only in India but abroad also with great actors yeah like you said you were balding and you were not you were not considered a nap you know let's get to Bollywood Hollywood later Pele Bombay Beach all of them super hits you're acting with the top-notch actors at that time did you feel that like eight pictures say one can arrive I knew when I | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-12 | pictures say one can arrive I knew when I was shooting for Sarah this is going to be the ultimate for many years not only for me but for any actor okay you see that is the arrogance an actor has if he is educated as an actor or at that time 90 people were not trained actors I always thought that I always thought that Maria classifications I never wanted to be classified or put it in that slot so I was madly enamored by the person the first day when I worked with Mr Bachchan I was very very impressed with myself but all the other people were contemporaries whether it was Shahrukh whether it was Anil whether it was all started our career uh together it's not just Romancing and I was too hard too happy to have made it because I was running from one place to another place I was working day night day night and I was thrilled that I have made it foreign and I always believe journey is much more important than destination and what is the point of taking | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-13 | important than destination and what is the point of taking the journey which does not have ups and downs which does not have speed Breakers which does not have life according to me is 90 monotony and 10 excitement interviews one of them will be this okay statement to make no why I'm trying to say that that you there is not a single actor single painter single writer singer any any singer who can say many um what I'm trying to say I'm not defending my I have enjoyed doing dilka doctor also all your bad work becomes your great stories later on do all the things that you have gone up triumphs stupid things that's what you remember in in films which you'd look back and you say oh my god there was a film called um foreign foreign foreign or it was overbearing it was horrible Channel that that was it because you had iOS so why did he like the film so much I think he was the distributor he must have thought that a second uh but hermesh ji was | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-14 | have thought that a second uh but hermesh ji was a great person I don't want to sort of talk about him but this is one this was one of them I am one of those lucky people you can still count 50 films which are a class I'm gonna decide to go into Hollywood or UK films and you went to Bend It Like Beckham all these movies I um happened that way I always have a competition with myself okay I always say that yeah I was thinking that how do I make it difficult for myself because competency is the biggest biggest enemy of brilliance okay when you are competent yeah because when you are working so much I was the first person to break the myth of typecasting in fact I was doing Karma also I was doing ramlakhan also I was doing also awareness day it was such a fabulous so I was but I was getting I wanted to I was I'm always very ambitious I wanted to have some International uh mileage was making Bend It Like | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-15 | some International uh mileage was making Bend It Like Beckham and I one day got a mail from her that uh I'm making this film I think she had offered this role to or she had wanted kept Mr bachan in in her mind so bend it like for the father's role yeah because that film did become a cult film but I mean I can't imagine anybody other than you doing that role that's because I did it that way you did it very well I can't imagine anybody else but I that was a Hindi film actor's mentality but that that happened and then Silver Linings Playbook happened then a lot of films happened that way but because I went out uh and uh you can only do good work if you get out of your country it's not as if you Central role you were willing to do my acting teacher used to say if you are good you will be noticed but for Indian actors to do it there I mean Priyanka Chopra has now become so successful | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-16 | mean Priyanka Chopra has now become so successful enough foreign I think that at a very young age my father took away the fear of failure by after an incident when I he thought I had failed he said remember one thing failure is an event never a person it's how you need to grow um I think Indian you can only do brilliant work if you have fear of failure because if you try you risk failure if you don't you ensure it that you've worked with such successful uh filmmakers chopras Birds guy um you worked with the bharjatyas and they wouldn't make a film without you literally so they they were all successful people you know so when you are around so many successful people it was like fear of failure that confidence comes with education I'm coming back to that again and again I was always a brilliant actor even when I did not have work I knew that I'm brilliant to any book I had read I had a personal collection of 14 000 books and that is | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-17 | a personal collection of 14 000 books and that is books do make you a very rich person in any field uh observation and I'm also people's person people are my my richness so when you're doing that then you are ready to pick up anything and you're a good listener and observer I'm not talking at people I'm talking to people yeah what stage did kiranji come in your life she came in my life when I came went to Chandigarh she was one year senior to me and she was a star she used to play represent India for badminton she was theater actress she used first class first in MMA she was just just far far away to even look at but and then she married Gotham and then she when I came in 81 on the 3rd of June 1981 to this place I came to know that Kiran is staying here and we became very dear friends she was already a mother wife she was she was she had sikandar at that time and sikandar was already there | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-18 | at that time and sikandar was already there and she wanted to do theater and we did theater together with Mr garki and then and we remained friend for a long time and then when she had issues with her marriage and I was ditched by some somebody I was going with then things became different so we have known each other now for the last uh 40 40 45 46 years you career trajectories went parallel to each other and you've I think you've never pulled the other person down you know I think that's that's you have to have a mutual respect for each other I think when you marry your best friend uh that thing stays one is in any relationship uh the mutual respect should stay and you should not say something to each other which is below the belt because she's a fabulous actor too she's an amazing actor but she concentrated for a long many years I always tell her that you should have worked more but uh she keeping her uh amount of films that she did she's | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-19 | keeping her uh amount of films that she did she's phenomenal yeah yeah and it's like one can't imagine a movie without you know like a Shahrukh doing a role without you playing his friend or dad or whatever and you can't imagine any mom who's a Punjabi mom doing anything yes yes Kiran kher is her she she became popular with those but her body of work whether it was so much that's true but she's she she's very good but you know than any other party she actually took it Forward she's fought elections she took it Forward I think I think there is a misconception that I think if anybody talks about India or anybody it speaks his mind people think that he is in politics uh India against corruption was not a political movement till it stayed till it became into ahmadni party or something like that I participated in it very very aggressively and very in a Forefront manner uh because I felt that it it was a great platform uh unfortunately it | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-20 | that it it was a great platform uh unfortunately it turned into a completely different thing that's a separate issue but it was a great video from moved away as soon as yes yes yes yes because when Anna Azaria was in that meeting where they were making a decision whether they should become completing a political another sitting next to me and he wrote on a piece of paper on a copy and he passed it towards me no so and whenever there is a Whenever there is a issue which is happening if I talk my mind out people think that it's a political issue as far as you saying that I'm I'm my ideologically no I'm ideologically I'm an Indian and my first interest is India and now if the present government thinks more about India then automatically I am I can be associated with them but if I wanted to join a political party I would have joined it also I had heard on the podcast and she also was in India against corruption and she said when kejriwal decided politics | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-21 | and she said when kejriwal decided politics she went on to the BJP yeah she tried that but then she said that was her understanding with my politics expertise Administration politics and that didn't work because it's a commitment I like acting very much I love acting and I think I will continue to do that but we never know tomorrow what can happen because but as far as through your conversation with you and your podcast I want to say that that I am india-centric IP people want to confuse that with any politics that is their problem I will I am born I am eight years younger to my country I was born in 1955 India was born in 1947. I lived my prayer in the school was I lived in a city where Western command headquarters were in Shimla I grew up I was part I mean I was there when 65 War happened 71 War happened so I know what it means to be uh so I can understand if people today who are born in free India | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-22 | understand if people today who are born in free India they are born in free India they do not know I came from that ah I think anybody who casts what is political because when you are going behind that curtain and you are putting a stamp you are putting a stamp for a party or an individual and that individual belongs to so yes and I think because actors have have a fan base people base and in today's time it's easily can be uh misconstrued it can easily get into issues there are certain section of people particular ideology foreign groups everybody has this kind of a thing so you can upset uh people if you are vocals nowadays with this boycott uh trenches should start where what do you have to say about this I personally feel that is foreign and he went into a depression also I'm told because he felt so bad that it was so rejected without even seeing the film people rejected it I don't think you see the point in the the point is that we are | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-23 | the point in the the point is that we are all we have all started our carriers together we have all fondness for each other we have all fondness for if an actor or an actress or a film person has the right to say anything about any situation then he or she should be also brave enough to sort of go through the city situation um I if Lal Singh chadda was not a great film if it was a grateful no power would have stopped um the point is that you need to learn to accept the truth is [Music] if it was a bad film just because of its theme it would have not done well it is a brilliant film it's one of the finest films wise made in our country I will openly say that after 50 years when the history of Indian Cinema will be talked about they will say films before Kashmir files and film after Kashmir files not only because of the cause that they talked about but also because of the language and because of the | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-24 | but also because of the language and because of the artistic Brilliance of the film film is based on truth is you did accidental prime minister it is one of my best performances so that's it I wanted to know how did you feel doing that role very difficult I had first said no to the films they had started looking for some other actor then one day I was watching news and in that news uh I saw him Dr manmon Singh walking dinner foreign for me as an actor to do this because his voice is different his gate is different he is he he does not have a particular way and the way he is it's going to be difficult so it took me eight months to master boys walk in eight months and two months of speech therapy speech workout and and people just rejected it they buy they did not say it by Accord but they boycotted it the reviewers said Zero review one star it's an agenda film foreign it's a cliche thing to say but at the end of it it's | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-25 | thing to say but at the end of it it's the audience which decides the rating of the film in fact in today's time pictures somebody stand there somebody's brother sister Aunt Uncle film um what do you have to sing do you think that it's a it's a fabulous thing because now people are saying that it's there's too much of violence and sex and it's changing the way people are are thinking living their lives we've always blamed the system or blamed the films for everything changing we've always Cinema is always the easy target to attack um there are so much no there is so much material available on your mobile phones today without it being something there are so many things I sometimes I'm I'm on all social media sometimes I get horrifying reels made of nudity of sex and things like that on platform on a social media platform people are making it not necessarily uh huh at home you need to decide what is to be seen and what is not to be seen but it's | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-26 | seen and what is not to be seen but it's given a platform for so many young actors amazing no amazing it is a great creator of jobs it is the best thing that has happened it's the stories which were not told I yesterday saw uh trial by fire it's one of the finest shows that has been made nobody um another incident which which shook a nation but nobody wants to learn from it fires people are not uh culpable they're not found cases and nothing happens people don't learn from these experiences so these stories have to be told again it has to be told I think forget that also a part story has been told look at the jobs it has created for directors producers actors actresses technicians cameramen sound recordists storytellers writers it has uh it is amazing and we are with changing times we have to change there were millions of sources of entertainment now there were not many earlier yeah but in the last two years when the pandemic happened I think | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-27 | two years when the pandemic happened I think the world changed yeah and with that change the mentality the thought process of the audience is people went through their personal traumas people went through their personal fear they went through fear they went to and something changed now they don't like anything which is fake hmm you see exaggerated is fine exaggerated believable entitlements foreign [Music] stories which are working uh well today is because people connect with it they in that time in during that lockdown they saw World Cinema they saw original film they saw Malayalam Telugu Tamil films stories unfortunately uh it's sadly it is there now everybody is fighting battle Yeah I sometimes I used to say I used to feel your film is [Music] everybody has to function this is the way one should do that but that I'm not saying I'm holier than thou but that does not stop me from praising uh somebody's work I am not for boycott Trends not at all but you can't stop somebody | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-28 | Trends not at all but you can't stop somebody from doing what they want to do but if your product is good it will find its audience in fact they will go with vengeance and they will the only way to kill this trend is to make brilliant work okay okay before I wind up I have to ask you about this uh Fitness regime that you have started you've become very uh very much of some you know somebody somebody to be admired that at one point of time you said I'm Gonna Get Fit and fine yeah you know and amazing videos that you put on Instagram you put it on Twitter also and uh so tell me at what point did you think yeah so when I became 60 uh foreign a happy person more happy I'm always a happy person but I also want to be a different person but difference will only start if I physically look different so then I got into this uh Fitness regime started walking working out here but it's the greatest feeling it's for all those people who | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-29 | the greatest feeling it's for all those people who are listening to this I think when you are fit when you are working out it also fits makes your mind fit you think right you you are calmer person okay because there is so much it's it's a distraction first of all that one R needs your for complete concentration it deviates you from other stupid nonsensical things but it also gives you to test your tolerance levels okay so I think the fitness is a great feeling it's a great thing I like to see my first thing is that I check my whether it also makes you eat the right thing right thing yeah foreign I also went through and this is also to promote ayurveda yoga both the things unbelievable things I went to an ayurveda Center in in Kerala and for 14 days and that changed my life okay you they um you can't eat that kind of a thing but the the way they go through and purify yourself is fantastic okay we just have to so you you do | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-30 | fantastic okay we just have to so you you do your physical fitness and you are uh you know and what you eat and I walk and I do yoga okay so that's your physical now you tell me you said you've decided at that point of time I'm going to foreign [Music] give me one word which is the dominating quality of Bibi Pradhan compassion so I think from other person's point of view also that makes me happy and my father used to say the easiest thing in the world is to make somebody happy if you make somebody happy it will make you happy it's not easy it is really it is you just have to listen and give a patient hearing to the other person and we complicate our own mind by thinking my grandfather used to say because I've lived in a joint family for a long time that's why I remember these lines that my grandfather used to say don't go through a problem twice once by thinking about it once by going through it hmm and that has | iFXb2qjxEDM |
2f7870da3540-31 | it once by going through it hmm and that has become more important to us and also I think people who pretend don't like themselves I like myself so I don't want to pretend that's a wonderful note to end this conversation on thank you so much for coming on the show always a pleasure it always I think good interviews are like cathartic interview they're like uh sessions with your psychiatrist because you speak out your mind did you do that today absolutely thank you so much thank you thank you thank you for watching or listening into this edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste click here to watch the previous episodes [Music] | iFXb2qjxEDM |
f44c0477dae2-0 | greatest crime committed on this planet is the idea of Heaven you're looking at the calendar images that kind of yogis their their artists work the yogis were never like that you look at adiyogi the first joke is the most exuberant and athletic human being you can find journalists particularly they come to The Yoga Center one film star or one Minister somebody is there their focus is only that there are other thirty thousand forty thousand other people your cameras never caught them I've never gone to any politician any powers that be including God asking for something I've never prayed in my life right now people are talking about mental health pandemic I know this will get me heavy Trolls but I must say this to them if you do not understand your physical and mental health is your responsibility one important thing Indians have been lacking is that we've always been accused of not having strategic thinking the world is looking at as one of the greatest possibilities on the planet we are a civilization who | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-1 | possibilities on the planet we are a civilization who strategized thousand years later what we will be doing at one time people call me saturu according to their experience I am telling you my problems I will die as a failure I know that but I am a blissful failure [Laughter] welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash I have a sore throat and an allergy cough but I didn't cancel my schedule I didn't try to reschedule the shoot because of what my guest had said last year to a podcaster he said that despite having serious ailments like typhoid and malaria he never canceled a shoot not the thousands of them that he had scheduled you must have guessed by now who my guest is sadhguru a yoga Guru Mystic philanthropist and author of dozens of books a podcaster he has millions of followers around the world satguru has been awarded the Padma vibhushan the second highest civilian award for his contributions to spirituality and humanitarian Services | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-2 | award for his contributions to spirituality and humanitarian Services thank you so much for coming our podcast I'm very honored that you're here A whole host of topics that I want to speak I spoke to you about a year ago we were just coming out of you know the pandemic at that stage so most of my questions were about how to cope with grief and what tools we can um you know we can employ in your guidance on that on how we can come out of it but um today you know I want to ask you so much more I heard your because I heard this interview that you did with Joe Rogan and I really really liked that podcast Joe is a wonderful guy he's one of those guys who whoever comes to him he lets them speak he understands he need to ask questions and wait for people to find expression it's not a shoot and Scoot kind of thing it's very nice that way but if with his questions on mysticism and all that unfortunately I could not | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-3 | on mysticism and all that unfortunately I could not address his uh inquiries about mysticism because that was just pre-save soil movement I went there mainly for that purpose to create support for that so I kind of avoided those things because you know people make controversies of all these things yeah but still I think you explained uh many questions which you know uh people who don't understand much about what is the difference between spirituality between being religious between seeking between knowing you you kind of explain that beautifully in that so those who haven't seen it please log on and it's a very long one you can get it on Spotify but of course today uh you know in that in uh podcast you spoke about the concept of Heaven um in all religions there is a concept of Heaven in many of you know many people feel that this uh life is a preparation for the next life but if you speak say that to the children today they look and say what nonsense that's not true see the greatest | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-4 | say what nonsense that's not true see the greatest crime committed on this planet is the idea of Heaven because the moment you tell someone this is not the place to live well there's another place where you're going to go and live well it's a crime against humanity it is because you're making sure people don't live well here they'll wait to live well elsewhere I'm asking do you have any proof that you are not already in heaven and making a mess out of it yeah there isn't or hell uh that's up to you so essentially Human Experience can be either like heaven or like hell so people say they come to The Yoga Center and say oh satguru you've created a heaven I said don't say that this is planet Earth and it's a most beautiful place that we know don't say that another place is there which is more beautiful than this which is better than this this is because you're living badly you think there's another place where you will go and live well all the sort of people | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-5 | will go and live well all the sort of people that they say they went to heaven I don't want to be in their company yeah true I know but you know uh you're talking about thousands of years of prophets and gurus and yogis who have been telling us no no don't blame the yogis yogis never talked about going to heaven it is only the heaven idea is a very Western idea when I say Western I'm talking West Asian idea oh okay otherwise there is no Heavenly business here here you've always been told your life is your karma and you have to make it happen the way you make it happen and there is a possibility of life being cycle cyclical and you can transcend the Cycles if you wish or you can go through the cycles nobody said you're going to heaven and permanently be there in one place I am saying suppose I will send you to the most beautiful Resort on the planet but we will pick at it in such a | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-6 | planet but we will pick at it in such a way that you can't cross it you have to live there only forever not for your lifetime forever you think it'll be great it'll be just like any prison all right so this is the idea of Heaven it's supposed to be very beautiful but once you go there there's no way out I don't want to go there yes that brings me to one question which I was going to ask later you you're one of those uh who has broken stereotypes you know of a of a guru of a yogi of a Mystic person who uh you know extricates himself from the worldly uh life you you dance you sing you play golf you motorcycle you travel the world you wear lovely clothes is that lowly it is it is they protect you you seem to I designed my own clothes I want you to know okay it's from natural fiber I can see yes that's a part of my mission Save The Weave is one of the projects that | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-7 | mission Save The Weave is one of the projects that we're doing okay to bring back natural fiber because one of the worst kind of pollution that is happening is because of the clothing like they say an average American has about 28 grams of polyurethane in their body and this is one of the biggest causes for cancer and things like that and fashion industry is the third largest polluter on the planet so these things are happening and nobody looks at it because everybody is focused on something that's visible it is the smoke that comes out of the automobile that everybody is interested in everybody is interested in that lowly plastic bag which is floating around I'm not saying they should not be fixed but especially in Western countries and it's become true in our country also now nearly 90 percent of the clothes that children wear or polyethylene 92 percent of the world's fiber is polyethylene already non-biodegradable yes and when children wear this especially when children wear this before 15 years of age if they wear | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-8 | wear this before 15 years of age if they wear this polyurethane clothing uh any kind of synthetic clothing they get poisoned so you are wondering why somebody's autistic why this and that if I say this below where is the research where is the fact I'm saying see you will find facts after a massive numbers of people right the fact is we know what it does we know it enters your bloodstream we know it's entered the soil we know it's entered the water we know it centered our food cycle we know it's in the air so one of the important things I've been pushing this with the governments to at least school children make it that they are wearing either cotton anything okay which is natural it will make a huge difference at least the government schools make it but it's still not happened everybody is using Terra cotton terlin and whatever it's not so much because it is cotton and fighting percent this thing it's okay I would say because it demands less maintenance but | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-9 | okay I would say because it demands less maintenance but a Time Has Come and the richest people in the world are wearing crumply clothes once again you know in California I'm in somebody's house who's really up there in the movie thing and all that so when I go our volunteers ask is there an iron box the what this is not a kind of house where we'll have an iron box iron box is an insult it's for those kind of impress permanent press clothes right no no they're not pressed they all wear crumply clothes because that's fashionable that's the most expensive clothing so when there is a fashion like that we must all get into little crumbly clothes it's all right yeah I'm also into a little bit of crumbly clothes so but my question when are you say stereotype where did your stereotype come from you're looking at the calendar images of those uh you know long bearded constipated look on their face that kind of yogis their their artists work the yogis | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-10 | of yogis their their artists work the yogis were never like that you look you look at adiyogi the first joke is the most exuberant and athletic human being you can find you look at all the gods that you have in this country if they don't dance they cannot be gods in our country non-dancing God not allowed in this culture a man who cannot dance how can he be even a human being forget about being a god dancing with ecstasy because of spiritual yes it is not some train dancing see dance is like laughter when you're when you're bubbling with joy you laugh all right it's not like you're trained to laugh naturally it comes to you it's not that somebody has to tell you a joke life is funny if you look at it carefully it's very very funny if you look at it in the surface it's dead serious but if you look at it carefully enough it's quite funny how people come do all this and tomorrow morning they disappear and everything | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-11 | all this and tomorrow morning they disappear and everything is fine all right it's quite funny so if you see in one level you will laugh when your body wants to laugh it will dance it's it's a consequence of exuberance it is not some special kind of dance you have to do this joy and exuberance you feel it's very much part of uh Indian culture or it's part of life it's part of life it's part of life life is exuberant you just look at this children below that is also unfortunately is happening 12 13 year old children are depressed and committing suicide all these things unfortunately the worst thing that can happen to humanity but you look at any child anywhere in the world being exuberant is natural look at a butterfly look at a grasshopper look at anything everything is exuberant what went wrong with you is just this you became dead serious about life you're dying to live people are dying to live that's a very in-depth stage you're alive | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-12 | to live that's a very in-depth stage you're alive anyway and when you really look at it how long are you alive if you look at this even if you live to be hundred but what potential a human being carries it's too little if you explore the potential otherwise it may feel very long I mean in your own experience you can look back and see any given day on a day when you're very joyful 24 hours poof it goes away like a moment someday if you're a little frustrated or anxious or depressed about something then 24 hours feels like a eon of time this is because only miserable people can have a long life is miserable by Nature not at all so you the reason I'm asking said guruji is because recently there was some uh something that came on the happy studies nonsense that is all see I travel everywhere in the world everywhere we go at least Western societies if you go to Africa and all it's different but Western societies if you travel there are | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-13 | different but Western societies if you travel there are many notches above us in terms of material comfort and you know that whatever is organization of life but they will all in the evenings after the drink they will all be laughing during the work can they laugh when they're driving can they laugh most of them can't even smile okay unfortunately in big cities in India also it's becoming like that but when I land in India you will see many more Smiles brighter Smiles natural ones not trained ones simply bursting out so when you were a child at the age of five if you were so joyful by the time you're 30 you should have become ecstatic if you were growing but unfortunately the reverse happens simply because your psychological drama overtakes the existential reality of Life otherwise if you pay attention to anything a flower can engage you for the rest of your life a leaf can engage you for the rest of your life why if you pay attention one atom can engage you for the rest of | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-14 | attention one atom can engage you for the rest of your life it's so complex and fantastic what makes you ecstatic I've seen you at the video went viral everywhere you were ecstatic when you were dancing there was so much joy what made you feel that at that moment I'm I was not at that moment I'm like that every moment I must tell you this because you've heard all this I don't know what to speak to you and what not everything see this is I'm going to tell you my problems now okay I don't believe this at least look uh listen I should listen with the grave some gravity okay right this is the problem people think if something important has to be handled it has to be they must be grave No Grave means you must be in the earth you shouldn't be outside you have no business to be sitting here and being grave you must be in the grave isn't it right so I'm you know I'm going about my life initially I go through from the age of 12 I | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-15 | initially I go through from the age of 12 I start practicing yoga just for physical progress and it definitely set me apart physically and mentally then by the time I'm 12 13 I'm um very by then I've read you know thus capital and angles and stuff and everything I am fully fired up wanting to join the armed Revolution oh my God because uh my thing is Injustice I see Injustice in politics I see Injustice in the economic situation I see Injustice in religious things that are happening I see Injustice within the family I see Injustice everywhere so I'm I'm simply angry all the time not against anybody I am simply angry all the time because wherever I see I see Prejudice and in the injustice so in that anger I thought armed Revolution is the only way out at that time it was boiling everywhere in Southern India seventies yeah yeah it was boiling a lot so you wanted to become part of it I almost was on the verge of it their | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-16 | it I almost was on the verge of it their own corruption saved me then I went there and then I saw they were also full of corruption the corruption they were supposed to fight they were even more corrupt then I backed off where am I going you know yeah so later on I evolved into a hardcore atheist cool yeah because essentially anything that does not fit into my logical Escape I could not digest those things uh I'm not somebody who values something because somebody has said it however important they are it doesn't matter it's my parents or uh God is God himself spoke or his messenger spoke or whoever spoke for me it's of no value unless it makes sense to me so nothing made sense to me people are talking all kinds of things and everybody says somebody said something so essentially what this means is in their minds the authorities the truth for me the truth is the only Authority from then to now it's still the same thing nothing changes for me that is very deep | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-17 | same thing nothing changes for me that is very deep yes truth is the only Authority I have I don't value any Authority so naturally becoming atheist is natural when you think logically everything logically certain things fall into place rest of the things don't fall into place so you keep on discounting everything that doesn't fall into logical space so then I I traveled the crisscrossed India on my motorcycle and I've seen this nation like very few people would have seen I didn't go to any destination I just rode across just the terrain the people I slept in The Villages I slept on roadsides I slept in Railway stations bus stations you know I I just all the money I had was only for the patrol in my motorcycle and I ate barely cheapest possible food I ate and I didn't spend one rupee for my sleeping I always I slept on my motorcycle most of the time you know this is South India or did you travel okay you traveled up to Nepal this side | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-18 | travel okay you traveled up to Nepal this side and decided Rajasthan only Northeast I did not do at that time okay mostly almost the whole country what were you seeking see I was not seeking anything all I knew was what I knew what I perceived was not enough I knew this is not it but I don't know what it is see this is the whole thing people need to understand they say I'm seeking God see when you say you're a Seeker you become a Seeker you're seeking is genuine only when you don't know you already know there is God and you're seeking this is a fake seeking you do not know that's why you seek isn't it when you realize you do not know you start seeking so my problem was this why I look like this why is this wall blocking my vision I want to look like this so I am doing crazy things with my mind trying to look Beyond and people I mean it'll look absolutely nuts because there are troll armies | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-19 | look absolutely nuts because there are troll armies which will go at me but there are things you can do with your senses which you have not imagined possible such as you can look you can look the other side of the wall if you want there are ways to do it there are many creatures who are doing that all right with the kind of vision that we have it's not three-dimensional it is not it is only reflection yeah all right but your vision is not just about seeing you can see things that you have not seen all right say for example you go into the forest uh the panther there or a tiger there doesn't have to see you if you're somewhere behind the tree or on top of the tree that's his nose yes this issue he knows exactly where you are all right he need not physically see you but he knows exactly where you are most of the time they're surviving and finding their food only by sense of smell so I kind of spend time in the jungles | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-20 | so I kind of spend time in the jungles looking as if I just walk into your room if there are let's say five people with eyes closed if I walk in I'll tell you there are five people and what kind of people this is not Magic this is just keenness of attention so in all these years of non-stop riding driving crazy things I've never hit anything people you know like I was writing with kaveri calling these all these kannada film stars they were writing so I'll go to the way you're writing what are you thinking about you just keep going going what is it what I said why am I thinking anything I don't think anything I'm just writing but if there is one rule that you follow when you're riding what is it the Only Rule that I follow followed is never collide with anything and still now I am not okay okay you still ride yes you're saying that you were not seeking anything but were you I'm not saying I'm not seeking anything I'm seeking what | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-21 | saying I'm not seeking anything I'm seeking what I'm saying if you already know what you're seeking did you know no if you already know you're not a Seeker I am saying so what were you honing what skills were you honing or what were you what was happening then I felt kind of caged inside the body I thought this is too limited there must be something Beyond I don't know what that is I am I did not grow up in any spiritual or any kind of culture tradition it's a very agnostic family there's no for enforcement of religion or anything with us so only thing is they want us to educate which I refuse to do so you did go to school and college and everything and you didn't mentioned in the direction of the school okay not inside okay it didn't interest you no I spent time in the libraries but I never really sat in classrooms much both in school and college very rarely I went there so the important thing is human beings have assumed too many | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-22 | important thing is human beings have assumed too many things you can call it Society you can call it religion you can call it education it's all full of assumptions so essentially even in school when you went through school they rewarded your memory they never rewarded your attention isn't it there's a basic mistake we've done with Humanity we are not rewarding the attention it's the human attention which opens up doors human memory you call that knowledge but today artificial intelligence is coming computers are coming what the hell will you do with your memory right now they're all feeling insecure what about our jobs I have been saying this for years anything that you can grasp as data analyze and express a machine can do better than you I've been saying this for over 20 25 years but now it's coming becoming a reality all the academics others wondering what will happen to us you will have no job and it's fantastic the teachers have no job it's really fantastic isn't it why would you say that | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-23 | really fantastic isn't it why would you say that why why not I'm saying see this happened in 70s I remember this so well in mazagon docks they installed the first uh gantry at that time a hundred and twenty five thousand ton ship was the largest ship they would take 24 to 28 days to unload one ship the cool is going up and bringing things when they put the first Gantry they said what are we supposed to do our muscles what are we supposed to do with this and they went on strike they closed down the docks for many weeks or so at that time and you wondered what are these guys doing so now there are gantries in every port a million ton ships are emptied within 24 hours correct all right so what are all the schoolies doing they're obviously doing something else so these intellectual coolies also will find something to do satguruji you know in that uh Joe Rogan show you spoke about some mystical happenings which happened uh when you went | MtsakWaHenw |
f44c0477dae2-24 | happenings which happened uh when you went to kailash mansarovar what is it that you saw there uh in at you know that 2 30 a.m that you saw which you thought that there was something that happened could you tell us what happened at kailash mansarovar see there is a phenomena that maybe a lot of people are unaware of this when lightning happens it's possible twenty percent of the lightning will be going from Earth to Sky most of the lightning is coming from there up to down yeah about 20 percent could be happening from Earth to Cloud that's not what it is it's not lightning what's happening there all I have to admit is I don't know really it's just that you see certain things this is the most incredible thing about creation even if you are here for a million years still the damn thing will surprise you and freak you because I people have been telling me about this kailash and you know this and that I'm not a pilgrim | MtsakWaHenw |