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985c0c894e5f-3 | couldn't survive on a government salary and at the end of the month have 200 rupees or 300 rupees left in my bank balance so I had an offer from Ananda Bazar patrika they were doing a new television program on doordarshan called business breakfast so they asked me whether I want to Anchor it I said sure So 9 all of 95 and the first half of 96. uh you know it was good for my bank balance you're doing a Morning Show which is the morning four o'clock in the morning like I'm doing now in the Bharat jodo yatra uh it's taken up at four my guests would come to the studio in safdarjung Enclave at six and we would go through the days headlines on economics it was economics and business remember it was 95 96 a completely different India it was it was an India that was opening up in India in which the corporate sector had still to become the Colossus that it has become today uh and everybody came I I you | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-4 | become today uh and everybody came I I you know for for 18 months I did this program there's one critic who called you the Aishwarya Rai of yeah yeah you know all sorts of names were you embarrassed we told me that absolutely but it was fun it was fun we were getting different uh different people on the show getting businessmen business women getting economists getting government servants uh you know and did couple of political leaders it was not a political shows method it was a business business show yeah it was to highlight a business perspective and it was to take the day's morning headlines you know which you see in BBC and you know Channel 4 and all these other newspapers and just go over and try to look beyond the headlines to get to the real stories of the day yeah you just tweeted you know you saw that leopard picture somebody had tweeted in IIT and you talked about your years when you were in 20 years on campus never saw a leopard in my | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-5 | years on campus never saw a leopard in my life never 12 years I was on campus yeah you see what has happened is just across the pipeline the water Pipeline and the IIT campus this is the Arab milk colony and then there is the borivali you know the national park human habitation is also coming human encroachments have taken place human habitations have taken place the leopards are moving out this is happening not only in poha it's happening across the country and the leopard unlike the tiger is a very sociable you know it's a very adaptable animal the tiger is a forest animal but the leopard is an urban animal so you'll find the leopard in gurgaon you'll find faridabad you know and they go after cats they go after chicken so you went to IIT you went to Carnegie Mellon uh and I mean there's a huge body of work which you are doing you did PhD I did all the things that you know normal middle class South | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-6 | all the things that you know normal middle class South Indian family yeah families are expected so you did engineering because your dad said you're 100 yeah 16 uh I had no intention of joining IIT my father was a professor in IIT so he forced me to join IIT Bombay I'm so glad that I at the age of 21 when I got my degree I just I was never been there like that when people introduced me as an engineer I always correct them I say I'm not an engineer I'm somebody who is an engineering degree I got it by mistake what engineering mechanical okay so I gave the IIT entrance got in then I you know did everything that what IIT graduates normally do applied to go abroad so I've got a scholarship went abroad but then I did something which no IIT graduates ever did at that time and still don't do we just come back to India so I came back to India in 1980. you abandoned your PhD actually after one and a half years | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-7 | your PhD actually after one and a half years I just discovered this is not my cup of tea okay I couldn't complete uh you know MIT yeah I would take four years to complete and then at the end of it I'd be an academic so just I didn't have the intellectual rigor at that time and I came back I had a good offer I came back in 80. so that's something that was somewhat alien to what my generation in the 80s coming back in the 80s and applying for a cooking you know for a LPG connection applying for a phone didn't have a car I had a barsati in Anand look you're married then no no no no 1981 okay and also you know we are getting to that promise you we you I'm just going chronologically chronology there's no connection between my life and about no you are a strategist I want to get to why you uh you've been picked to be the strategist for media for the Bharat jodo why has the Gandhi family picked | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-8 | Bharat jodo why has the Gandhi family picked you I think you should ask Mr Sonia next time I am going to come to you to tell her to come to this podcast is I certainly request her I certainly tell her that I was asked why you have appointed me and you are the only person I would have asked this to nurse who picked you I would have asked you to VP Singh who picked you I would have asked Sita Ram kesri who picked you I would have to ask Dr Manmohan Singh who picked you I would have asked who picked you and now you're telling me I shouldn't go into your past no so the God has you know been kind to me no no the men in the Congress besides the Gandhi family have been kind to you all have seen your potential and please don't tell you what I'll tell you the Secret of My Success I was the first man to start using a laptop ah okay I started using a laptop in 1990. | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-9 | ah okay I started using a laptop in 1990. I was probably the first man in government of India to have a laptop I had a small Zenith laptop it was made in Rajiv Gandhi's computer voice computer I was the first one who had a laptop okay it was a literally a laptop it was made in Taiwan got into India it seeps the Santa Cruz electronic processing zone so I was one of the probably the first and I certainly was the first to get an email address okay email address vsnl.com I was probably the first man to get a vsnl.com email address this was like 96. okay so yeah I mean the fact that I had a laptop I had a portable printer when I had an email address among all the dinosaurs who wanted triplicate me though why would you with all this American Education you would have got a good corporate job why did you oh no I never wanted to get into the corporate sector no I mean the one thing that has always been with me | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-10 | mean the one thing that has always been with me I wanted to work in the public domain so that's why you know in 81 when I 80 when I came back I started working in the government of India and I worked in different I worked in the ministry of Industry then Dr Manmohan Singh recruited me into the Planning Commission with a couple of others so I worked in the you know various finance ministry so I worked in the government of India I was a what what is today what Mr Modi calls lateral service I was one of the products of the lateral service in the 80s Monte Carlo Walia for example myself we all joined laterally with the Indian lateral service and so in 90 what happened was when the change took place when VP Singh became the Prime Minister I just want to call on Mr Rajiv Gandhi whom I had known because I'd worked with Mr Sam petrota so he asked me what are you doing so I said sir this is what I'm doing | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-11 | so I said sir this is what I'm doing you know and then he said well it doesn't sound very exciting why don't you come and work with me for the elections so I said elections are you going to call have elections soon so he said could be this was December of 19 uh 90. right so I started working with Mr Gandhi in December of 1990 and so that's how my political Journey started and uh May 1991 I was assassinated and you know Mr narasimha obviously I whom I'd never met in my life right no I mean original same state as you are okay she has to speak to your father in Canada okay but uh there is some connection to uh Andhra also I was an MP from Andhra for two terms from 2004 to 2000 uh 16. I was an MP for two terms that didn't bring you close to nursing around no no no no no no no no he wasn't parochial in that respect no no [Music] so I started working with him | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-12 | no no [Music] so I started working with him uh and then uh then you know Congress lost power in 96. uh Mr chilambaram asked me to join him in the finance ministry when he was always this this kind of a bureaucratic rajya Sabha I mean that's the criticism that you've been around for 40 years but you haven't come for an election I mean I never wanted to fight an election why I know I mean first of all I don't have the resources to fight an election number one number two I don't think I'm cut out for uh 24x7 political life you know I have other interests in life I like to read I like to write I like to travel uh so and that's right is the most difficult job in our country it's a thing thankless job it's a 24x7 job and I've seen many of my colleagues you know and I admired their tenacity and I admired their endurance and I knew from day one that if I am in politics I'm going | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-13 | one that if I am in politics I'm going to be a backroom political animal I'm going to be and you know I even I'm going to be an intellectual in politics although the intellectuals think I'm a politicians and the politicians think I'm an intellectual exactly now I didn't want to say this is the worst the worst abuse you can get in politics is normally you know buddhijiwi is supposed to be a sign of you know good Acceptance in fact politician calls you Buddhism you're too well read yeah too well read for politics because politics once told me either yes one interview or something that or you gave or somebody said that it was a comment that you make did passing that you know you probably you know the well-read people in the Congress don't find their uh upward trajectory very quick uh this was years ago you know it's it's you know it's tragic because in the 50s Indian politics was entirely different the Indian Freedom Movement was all well-read | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-14 | entirely different the Indian Freedom Movement was all well-read people yes extraordinarily well read and they wrote books and they didn't have ghost written books they wrote books on their own you know unlike many people in politics who have ghost written books ghost writers these people Raja kabalachari nehru Bose Gandhi Patel all of them were all extremely well-read people and professional people that changed that changed somewhere in the 60s and 70s because and I'm you know I don't regret it because us Indian politics itself changed the nature of Indian politics changed uh it became more competitive it became more populist it became much deeper into the ground democracy became deeper isn't that what it should be no that's the way it should be because still the I would say till the late 60s politics was still sort of a you know aristocratic middle class well-educated people coming from you know well-to-do backgrounds professional backgrounds but that chain and I'm glad it changed because today if there is one instrument of | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-15 | it changed because today if there is one instrument of social mobility in India it's not the media it's not the corporate sector it's not the bureaucracy it's politics its politics has given voice and identity to people from sections of society which have been discriminated and disadvantaged for centuries and yet at one point of time when you were asked whether you know you'll get another term in rajya Sabha you'd said the congress party is not going to nominate me to the Sabha I'm not a dual caste woman Muslim backward or anything I don't have a Godfather godmother tomorrow if I were to join BJP my chances of nomination would be probably much brighter maybe I don't remember that remark there are many remarks attributed to me okay you know there are many remarks attributed to Mahatma Gandhi for example which you never made or Lincoln one of the one of the most famous comments of Gandhi which he never made was that the world is enough for everybody's need but not | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-16 | the world is enough for everybody's need but not enough for everybody's greedy never said that but we like to think that he said it okay so that's one of those comments that uh did you get miffed at times when if you didn't get a job you had to quit you because you didn't play to the gallery you didn't do the Jesus you decided see remember from 98 to 2004 we were down in the dumps and in 2004 nobody expected us to win least of all Congress leaders all senior Congress leaders barring Mrs Gandhi and one or two other people were convinced that Mr vajpayee was coming back because and you had to run the War Room at that time starting the War Room at that time me and Salman khushil were the only two people running the War Room it was a two rooms 99 South Avenue didn't which didn't have a toilet and which we had to go to the nearby cladurgus Hotel every time you know we had to use the toilet yeah and | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-17 | you know we had to use the toilet yeah and um it was it was no not even khichdi the khichdi comes after remembering UPA is formed after but our entire campaign in 2004 and as Mr vajpai was asked once by the kawha so in his inimitable Style remarkeda this is a victory that the victors didn't expect and this was a victory that the losers didn't expect and the meteor also I think was not giving you much to nobody but you know we had done a we had done a opinion poll uh which we then selectively not planted but selectively shared with sections of the media which showed that the Congress could well emerge as the single largest party and I remember this there was shock there was consternation even amongst my senior colleagues how can the Congress you know be the single largest party but the fact is that we immersed as a single largest party in 2004. in 2009 of course uh we were the party in power I still ran | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-18 | uh we were the party in power I still ran the campaign in 2009 but nevertheless it was an easier camp been because we were running it as a incumbent government and I actually to be honest with you I did not expect to get more than 175 or 180 seats my late friend and his colleague who worked with me Mr Ahmed Patel and I were comparing notes before the counting day and you know our most optimix optimistic assessment in 2009 was maybe 175 to 180 we ended up getting 2009 and 209. at that time 2009 and we were the second largest party in up we got 22 seats in up this was in 2009 just 13 years ago see now of course you're writing our obituaries so you know it's the moral of the story you never know arbitrary of the congress party and best laid plans of mice and men right in 2004 what the whole uh feel was that you know of India shining at that stage and you've worked with narsimara you were in the | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-19 | you've worked with narsimara you were in the you were in OSD at that time right you've worked in that you knew that uh you know they were talking about um the India shining thing why couldn't you at that time say that hey we had the 1991 reforms we were the ones who ushered in somehow the congress party doesn't Embrace that much starter we knew it is a non-starter we did dipstick Service uh and we and we found that there was a lot of uh you know there was a lot of disappointment that their people's lives had not changed and there was this big image being portrayed of India shining and in fact this line came from a Vox pop that we did with a with a group of people in sonipat one you know in his own accent said India shining us don't you feel that I mean it's only now like see when nirmala Sita Raman says that they were that you know the reforms were incomplete or something then you get up to | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-20 | were incomplete or something then you get up to defend or not you as such but I mean the congress party it's never given due to that period and never oh that's not exactly true but remember just the open Columns of maybe this party is basically a center left party it's not a left of center party it's a center left party it's traditionally been a center-left party and there was ambivalence in the congress party on the 91 reforms there was ambivalence and Dr Manmohan Singh a tremendous problems navigating these reforms not just the left parties who were in The Coalition within the congress party the majority of the Congress MPS were very ambivalent on the reforms that you know were introduced it took Dr Manmohan Singh's intellectual ability and manmo and Mr narsimras political skills to help navigate these reforms in 91 and 92. now once the reform started showing results then what started off as compulsion people then became convinced you know narasimharav didn't believe in these | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-21 | you know narasimharav didn't believe in these reforms in 91. he you know we would discuss every day and he would say this is my compulsion but by 93 Mr narasim Rao would go to Davos and say this is my conviction so compulsion becomes conviction not right when you see that people have benefited results were coming out you know for investment was coming the headlines were good kind of confused as to where you stand because of this but at the same time you your anti-bt brinjal you were anti and your your whole tenure as environment Minister you you talk about anti-mining activities that mine is mining it doesn't so where do you stand I can't figure out are you naxal and extreme left ideology I don't have an ideology I'm not extreme left I'm not centered right either I must I'm an extreme Centrist extreme Centrist and I think what is Extreme Central extreme Centrist is you try to find the middle ground at every point of time you find the | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-22 | middle ground at every point of time you find the middle ground and if you don't find the middle ground there are some times in which you don't find the middle ground then you go by the book so the reason why I threw the book at vedanta on name is because they had violated every single environmental law the reason why I threw the book at lavasa uh you know although lavasa had a lot of political backers is because lavasa never had any environmental clearances the reason why I threw the book on BT brinjal was simply because that the scientific Community itself was not convinced that BT brinjal was in India's best interest so I came out later right there is a jayanti tax and there was the environment much later but I don't want to talk about that but I can tell you about my tenure today uh well today we are talking the entire country is excited by cheetah and our prime minister has said in 2009 I was the one who introduced the cheetah project I | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-23 | was the one who introduced the cheetah project I saw your Twitter put out the letter to show that the Prime Minister stratified right I'll tell you why it didn't Rectify I went to South Africa in 2010 I identified the place where we were going to get cheaters and some people went to the Supreme Court because you were bringing the lines and the Cheetahs to live in the same place they will live one day mark my words mark my words lions and cheetah if you have been to East Africa lions and cheetahs share the same habitat yeah but lions and cheetahs shared the same habitat unfortunately the lion in India is not it's become a matter of Pride it's a matter of politics nobody one person does not Supreme Court has said we must develop a second home for the lion the second home for the lion was Kuno Kuno was developed as a home for the for the geared lion but but one man says no no this is Gujarati asmita I | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-24 | says no no this is Gujarati asmita I will not let the lion go from gear and that's why you know that Kuno had to be developed as a cheetah habitat now the point I'm making is that this again is an example uh the people went to the Supreme Court and for Supreme Court for seven years why would the Supreme Court of India have to decide whether cheetah should be introduced or not it was a forest bench this is a matter of fact all environment related issues not when I was Minister not when I was minister the reason why it goes to Judiciary is because the executive is not functioning it this is the job of the executive the job of the Judiciary is not to take decisions on behalf of the executive it is to interpret the laws not to implement the laws so uh there was another thing that had happened was that when I think uh I don't recall exactly was when uh you were castigated at one point of time for bringing in the uh | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-25 | at one point of time for bringing in the uh the Chinese Telecom uh you were in China and you said that the home Ministry is being extremely we should we should have we should be more pragmatic in Hinds exactly in hindsight do you by the way I worked very well with the Chinese on the climate change negotiations I set up the basic Group which was Brazil South Africa India and China and we worked very well together it was a different China it was not it was not it was uh prime minister bow I know of course the president but the premier was we worked very well I went to China three times a year the Chinese came here three times a year we met in different parts of the world and we collaborated at Copenhagen we collaborated very well look the bureaucracy Chinese change later the Chinese changed later and the the dominant Paradigm of we we have our differences but let's set our differences aside and let's work out areas of cooperation was the Paradigm that was | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-26 | out areas of cooperation was the Paradigm that was set in December of 1988 when Mr Rajiv Gandhi and dung Xiaoping met now unfortunately the Chinese decided to break that Paradigm in 2020 and today that model is broken so we have to reset our entire relationship today if you were to ask me today if you were to ask me would I advocate Chinese investments in India I would say no but there was a time when I said let's get the Chinese let's let Indian investors go to China I remember TCS I remember Infosys orobindo Pharma Tata steel Apollo tires I went with them to China so let's I said investment is a two-way process that Chinese companies come to Huawei came to Bangalore exactly came to Bangalore I was a user of Huawei Huawei had a tie up with Tata Telecom at that point of time so there was a time when I advocated that's how they were trying to get their interests Indians also should do the same thing no so Indian Investments | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-27 | also should do the same thing no so Indian Investments also were being promoted in China Chinese Investments were being promoted in India but in today's environment you know my approach to China has changed you know I wouldn't Advocate the same approach we have to get the politics of our relationship back uh on on the track it was before March 2020. March 2020 was clearly a turning decisive Turning Point yeah things have to be reacted yeah absolutely we have to go back I mean you can't have a situation where you know the status quo entity has been Disturbed unilaterally okay let me get now to the present yes yes how did you get picked uh to be the general secretary foreign [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] and we were being you know attacked we were being attacked by the BJP we are being attacked by our own colleagues like-minded parties of course we were the favorite Target of the media so you know but then when you keep losing it's not targeting the party | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-28 | when you keep losing it's not targeting the party huh get this I'm not I'm not speaking on behalf of the media but generally when when the party doesn't even want to fight when the party doesn't even want to save a government which is in the doldrums because of various Mecca Nations which are happening the leadership doesn't even try then will the other parties will the media will writers operate editors whatever will they not write and say and then the Congress says bashing is a favorite pastime not only for right-wingers unfortunately Congress bashing has become a favorite Pastor immune for liberals okay and even for so-called secular commentators don't you think because the Liberals get irritated very easy target congress come on can you imagine in this country it is being an easy target when is it really easy target it's a very easy target you try targeting the BJP and you will be finished but the BJP used to say the same thing and you've been in politics the Prime Minister | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-29 | thing and you've been in politics the Prime Minister you tried targeting the home minister did you be finished could anybody Target Mr chidambaram when he was home minister in the media he was oh come on operations anybody the only person a mythical operation greenhunt he was accused of he was accused of could anybody Target Mr Prana Mukherjee could anybody Target Sonia Gandhi when the UPA was in power servant of reliance he was called you know reliance Reliance Reliance Mukherjee Reliance Mukherjee so you think it's not happening with adani Ambani today you guys are not no no what is it the congress party is doing it also in those days there was no social media if you remember this is a new phenomenon where this whereas the point is basic point we are living in the world of jio right you know what I mean so no I don't know our policy is though no that is not the policy of the bjb BJP is only jio no | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-30 | policy of the bjb BJP is only jio no mysterious when somebody put a Punjab on fire that you don't talk about of course it was talked about no no come on who criticized the RSS and the BJP for that do you know that when this this study on fire came up right if you remember Rajiv Gandhi's time there was this scorpionizing yeah read if that whole campaign that happened and at that time there was a rethink let's go back to the question that you had raised you know we're getting off into 20 different directions go back let's go back to the question okay fundamental differences that she's easy to bash the Congress because the Congress doesn't bash you back the con there is there is a certain degree of liberalism in the Congress still because maybe there's a truth it's not the truth it's just there it's the approach of the Congress suppose no that's why I've from 17th of June I have adopted a policy you attack me I'll attack you you | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-31 | a policy you attack me I'll attack you you try to defame me I will issue a notice to you I will if you are if you are going to be aggressive I'm going to be double leg super aggressive so I am not going to take it lying down now unfortunately that's not that was not my policy before but in the job I am in I have to set a certain pattern I have to motivate the youngsters in my party um foreign [Music] I don't know act act a for regression C for conciseness Brothers foreign foreign I have to be by the way that's my job no why is a communication person's job Leader's job is to manage everybody right my job is to communicate okay if I do not communicate in a manner that induces and infuses confidence in the party worker in the party colleague I'm not doing my job frankly and I am not communicating my first Target of communication is internal it is to educate our own people inform our own people and choose our own | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-32 | own people inform our own people and choose our own people and then they will develop the courage and they will have the instruments to take on our political opponents the number of seats that you have in Parliament you certainly punch above your weight you know you're there in all TV debates you're there in the social media you're everywhere so why do you say to some um this victim mentality have you seen the way anchors the way they go after everybody have you seen in we've had to we have had to boycott three channels right now we have removed the ban on one one of the three channels but the on the other two channels we have not driven what do you get by boycotting if you're not allowed to present your point of view if you are there to be insulted why go if see anchors are no longer anchors in this country anchors have become partisan players in the debate I can understand if you're an anchor your job listen to you listen to him listen to me and | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-33 | listen to you listen to him listen to me and you know then allow each of us to have a debate and the anchor itself himself or herself becomes an aggressive participant and he wants to bash up everybody else who has a different point of view I don't think that's fair so you think the format of Television is has broken complete it's a it's a it's a it's no longer an honest debate it's no longer an informed debate it's the anchor trying to express anger it's not anchor it's anger you know that's all is and so is it an anger management part of a communication job but I can't manage incidentally we have removed the ban on one of the three channels which we were not going to we've removed the and our debate our spokesperson are going on Z even though z may be critical of us I don't mind if times now or Republic TV are critical of us I don't mind let them be critical but they must be fair means about giving you enough | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-34 | they must be fair means about giving you enough time give me give must give us enough time they can't make fun of us they can't go after our spokespersons they can't run down our leadership and the language that you use also has to be somewhat dignified if you are also going to be descending to the level of the gutter that's not enough that doesn't make for a proper debate I don't like I don't like boycotting any channel frankly let me tell you I do not like boycotting anybody I like to listen to people who are critical I like to listen to you because your channel is always critical of my party so I like your your correspondent I like to listen to him I talk to him so I I don't want to collect only you know language on and yes people around me see us also but you have to give me you have to move one step ahead you have to take one step forward so I am I'm sorry to say that but you know we | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-35 | am I'm sorry to say that but you know we are continuing I agree with you okay fine the channels I'm going to get out of but I do understand that uh you know that you you are miffed with some of them I get them with you also okay a lot of our people a lot of our senior leaders our spokespersons when I went to column when when I went to uh you know who's covering everything I was saying the first question I asked the first tweet first thing in the morning we always do your press conferences we always do your interviews even I can say that we have interviewed Priyanka Priyanka Gandhi twice twice we have interviewed one in the uh covet situation we didn't have a role at that stage and then secondly during the up election and it length and it was very lengthy showed but yeah foreign [Music] you were doing nothing so what do you expect if there is rigor mortise which is setting in in the party what do we say | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-36 | is setting in in the party what do we say oh in action in the party that's news can we do that right it's only when you guys started moving that it became a story you're getting up in the morning at 6 30 and starting to move when all other political parties are sleeping so it's news I'm glad right I'm glad you've woken up so glad you have woken now right now let me get to that who decides who's meeting Rahul Gandhi and why did that meeting with the pastor happen Pastor was an accidental waiting it was no it was not a planned interaction at all these interactions are decided by the local pccs I see the decided by local leaders we can't sit and decide all we have said is that we have the first phase is from 7 to 10 30. so from 10 30 to 12 Mr Gandhi will relax will relax at 12 o'clock they have lunch it's from 2 to 3 they have an interaction four o'clock we start | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-37 | to 3 they have an interaction four o'clock we start walking again till 7 30. so we have seven hours of walking we cover about 21 22 kilometers now in that particular instance what happened was after he addressed a press conference he went back to his room and while he was going back to his room there were a bunch of you know local that we the yatri was had was spending time at that church premises because the church premises was big it was a big Garden there was a big you know Courtyard so they said please can we have a discussion can we just have some tea for five minutes on the all his innocence he said fine and one guy was not supposed to record this interaction record it happens to be this pastor and then he made you know highly objectionable comments which were made even more objectionable by the media and then we immediately put out the video so which which debunked this whole thing so these interactions take place they're not scripted they see he | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-38 | interactions take place they're not scripted they see he is the morning part of the yatra draws about 5 000 people they're not sanitized the interactions draw about 200 to 250 people they are not sanitized the second the part of the yatra which is from 4 to 7 30 draws 25 to 30 000 people they're all sanitized people are coming on their own now the only thing that can be sanitized is this formal interactions you know with students and yeah that after what happened in the first two days we are now taking a little more care for example now we are not allowing our interactions to be recorded we record it and we release the audio or the video as the case may be in this type of a program where he is meeting not only he all of us are meeting hundreds and hundreds literally hundreds and thousands of people it's impossible to outsave for for each and every individual right then what do you say about this whole thing that it is just basically repackaging of RG and | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-39 | that it is just basically repackaging of RG and it is to motivate um to motivate the Cutters of the Congress rather than the the esoteric term of Bharat jodo no no it is a it is about a judo campaign in the context of the result of the policies of the Maori government which is leading to economic inequalities social polarization and political centralization that's the that's the political part of the Bharat Judo which is that you need Bharat jodo because Bharat is being told and Bharat is being told as a result of the ideologies and the policies of the government or particularly of the Mr modi's government and the RSS which is leading to in Econo economic inequalities which is leading to social polarization and which is leading to political centralization and that's why you need Bharat jodo the other objective which I am not fighting shy of admitting and saying it on every occasion it is to strengthen the congress party it is a mass contact program for the | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-40 | congress party it is a mass contact program for the congress party which is after a long time has come on to the streets the district at the Block Level at the district level at the state level workers or coming out in hundreds and thousands literally and getting a new sense of participation so you don't see Congress happening one minute second part there's a third objective of course it's a new Mr Rahul Gandhi who's being seen day in and day out his endurance his his patience his uh his ability to connect with people his willingness to talk of course he's listening he's not giving sandesh like some others do every time they speak so these are the three objectives there is a political objective there is an organizational objective and there is an individual objective there's no doubt about it I'm not running away from admitting it now Mr Gandhi is very clear that he's not leading the Bharat yatra and you know he is you know one of 120 but I keep telling him that | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-41 | know one of 120 but I keep telling him that the entire public focuses on you uh the media's focus is on you media doesn't want to interview me media wants to interview you right so he knows it but he is at pains even in the press conference at nagercoil he said when somebody asked him this question look I am one of the 120 people who are going to complete the 3700 kilometers but you know I understand that all of you are interested only in my movements I mean for example nobody else will be interested in what I am wearing or what I am you know what my shoes or my t-shirt t-shirt how I am sleeping where I am sleeping and all those things so there is this there is is it repackaging of Mr organic undoubtedly is it strengthening of the congress party undoubtedly is it to take on the BJP and set a narrative for 2024 undoubtedly what narrative is this for 2020. this narrative is that these are the three big | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-42 | this narrative is that these are the three big challenges that India faces that the result of Mr modi's ideology and his policies is economic inequality is increasing polarization is taking place and is intensifying and political centralization is resulting in States getting weaker constitutional bodies getting weaker and the Constitution being ignored in more instances than these activities I want them to argue on our narrative I want the BJP to attack us on our narrative but they're attacking us on our t-shirts is this on our containers is also the uh one of the things that crappy exchange are we having with the BJP on a day-to-day basis I don't understand you you take objection I think is that lowest common no I mean it's ridiculous I become a political debate I have said this on when I responded on the t-shirt and the container debate and something else I said look these are the political objectives of the Bharat jodo yatra I am prepared for a debate on a daily basis and then | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-43 | prepared for a debate on a daily basis and then you have this uh you know jhoot Ki Rani saying that he never he went to kanyakumari and didn't go and visit Vivekananda Memorial we put out a video he started Memorial do you want to reduce the debate to this this level of falsification is it is it also a message that you're sending out to the other political the non-bjp parties that uh that you know that you are or your party is the one which is going to be leading your fight against yes yes y-e-s yes okay we are not going to play anymore opposition Unity without a strong Congress is not possible so far the Congress has given more than what it has taken in any Coalition agreement Coalition means give and take Coalition is compromise I'm sorry to say that many parties like-minded parties have grown at the expense of the Congress we can't allow this to happen Congress has to be strong and the Congress we are not are you if you're asking me are | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-44 | we are not are you if you're asking me are we doing this yatra for opposition Unity answer is no we are doing it for strengthening the congress party which we believe will be in the benefit of opposition Unity if and when this opposition Unity moves take complete shape in the run-up to 2024 right if and when that's not at the back of our minds opposition Unity everybody working on but everybody is working on leading the moves towards that you know we are not interested we are not talking of opposition Unity right now we are interested only in strengthening the congress party we are not interested in trying to project the Prime Minister for 2024 why we're not because our elections are not a beauty contest between individuals it's if the party is we sounds very uh catchy but it does become personalities because you people have made it that way but hasn't it we have political parties political parties have poll symbols they have manifestos they have organizations they have mobile of course they have faces | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-45 | have organizations they have mobile of course they have faces yeah of course foreign what did I say I said our elections are not a beauty contest between individuals they are a choice of political parties so political party May it is headed by individuals not headed by elephants I know individuals who've been in the Congress who have lost and who have gone to the BJP and won why the same individual who is lost in the BJ in the Congress has won when the BJP ticket why because people are voting for The BJP people are voting for Mr Modi I'm not I'm not denying that fact people voted for Mr vajpai people voted for Mr Rajiv Gandhi people wanted it's a mixture of both party organization party ideology party symbols and individual leadership right now our challenge is to strengthen our organization bring it to a level of preparedness give our party workers a sense of belonging a sense of enthusiasm and a sense of we can do and we will do you become you know in spite of | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-46 | will do you become you know in spite of them led by opposition parties that's what I'm saying yeah that's what I want you cannot be led sorry when I say led by what I meant to say is that we cannot we cannot dance to the tune of somebody else okay we are the Congress is the pivot of any non-bjp coalition anybody who thinks that the Congress is not going to be the pivot I'm afraid is living in a Fool's Paradise so it's a clear message for kcr it's a clear message foreign government I was Mr chidambaram was a finance minister I was his advisor and I knew I know what problems with David in the third front I've also worked I was a minister in a UPA government the upo is a different type of government it was not a third front government although the CPM kept out you know in Europe but by and large it was a the Congress was in and what gives stability what gave instability to David gowda's government was | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-47 | what gave instability to David gowda's government was the fact that the Congress was out what gave instability to Chandra shekhar was outside report yeah that's what I mean that's what I mean but that's because you guys chose to upa-1 and UPA 2 was the fact that the Congress was in your priority is to just to strengthen congress party till 2024. this is your one first purest objective is must get must our first Milestone is we must reach 150 seats that's our first Milestone our second milestone will reach and what about the Congress presidential election if we have this podcast a week from now you'll know who the Congress president is you called me back on the first and we can discuss on the who the Congress president is right so that's the agenda you come back no on the first if there is no election if there is an election you call me back on the 19th and we can have a discussion but this whole thing I mean Rahul Gandhi keeps saying that | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-48 | I mean Rahul Gandhi keeps saying that you know there will be an election and I'm not the one because everybody he's been saying and and then if anybody wants to contest if anybody wants to contest he's welcome I was sitting in trivandrum press conference next to one potential Contender and I was asked this question so I turned to the point why don't you name him I turn to the potential Contender and says you know we're a Democratic party whoever wants to contest can contested contest see I'll tell you you remember that period let me tell you in 137 years we've had elections only on four occasions 1938 when netaji Subhash Chandra Bose defeated Gandhi's candidate 1950 when purushottam Das tandoned supported by Sardar Patel defeated supported by jawaharlal nehru 1997 when sitaram kesri contested won against pilot in 2000 when Sonia Gandhi defeated Prasad we are the only political party which has a system for electing the president but why but once | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-49 | system for electing the president but why but once again we're not a party we're not we have not always elected a president we have elected elected a president only four occasions in 137 years but we are the only party that has provision and as and has the system for electing the election I believe my personal belief I I have said so and I don't mind repeating it I am a great believer of the kavaraja model of management which is to find to talk to everybody find a consensus candidate this is what cameras did in 1964 this is what Cambridge did in 66 this is what cameras tried to do in 67 and you know in 67 there was an election but of course there was a compromise soon thereafter so I believe that this consensus creation model is a better model than the British model now today the result of it is in the British model you have truss lysters and all her supporters and Rishi sunak and his supporters are completely out it's a winner take | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-50 | his supporters are completely out it's a winner take all model the consensus here the winner is going to be Rahul Gandhi regardless of who is if he's not Mr mother mystery has said very clearly there is no writing candidate you cannot write Rahul Gandhi on the uh you know on the ballot form the ballot form will only have it's only going to be Rahul Gandhi regardless of who becomes president right right you wait till the first look at it for the next five and a half months is going to be on the Bharat jodo yatra next five and a half months this is going to end only in the year so whoever comes in he will be the president for that note first you wait till the first look uh it's going to be the Gandhi family all the time no the controller occupies the Gandhi family occupies a special place in the Congress it occupies a unique place in the Congress doesn't the RSS occupy a unique Place uh in the in | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-51 | the RSS occupy a unique Place uh in the in the business it's just that the people keep changing in the RSS right and people keep changing in the BJP but people don't change in the Gandhi family it's the family right I don't understand I don't frankly I don't understand the distinction that you're drawing the family has given the country three prime ministers right the family has an unparalleled record of service to the party and to the country the party in its wisdom the party because of its belief has decided to give the family a special place in his scheme of things I welcome that and it's a it's a reflection of reality the family has the family has contested election has lost election Indira Gandhi lost in 77 she was re-elected by the same electorate in 1980. Mr Gandhi was rejected by the electorate in 2019. so this is not this is not anmol Ambani or you know whatever Isha Ambani who cannot be will be rejected by the shareholders that's a private Enterprise | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-52 | be rejected by the shareholders that's a private Enterprise so let's not even get the private Enterprise built on public resources so don't draw this distinction don't draw this distinction in private in public what I'm saying is okay in in the public domain there's a certain sense of accountability people can reject you people rejected Indira Gandhi people have rejected in Amity have rejected Mr Rahul Gandhi we can argue about whatever sheets in a private Enterprise whereas in a public so the Gandhi family has a unique place in the congress party they will continue to have are you if you're going if you're telling me that they will do backseat driving okay that's what you're saying whoever is the Congress president in Punjab huh you are not privy to uh neither am I privy to all that certainly not you if I am not privy you can't be privy yes sir the there are processes that go have been gone through before you know these decisions are taken these are not instantaneous | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-53 | know these decisions are taken these are not instantaneous decisions that take it taken now if fear that you are expressing that whoever comes on this is bharata and Lord Rama is somewhere else he's in the ayodhya uh he's in the you know yatra he'll finish the yatra and then the padukas will be removed and he will you know I said you say shankaracharya you said it just like shankaracharya jodode India look at the comparison you're doing between Rahul Gandhi and shankarachary I'm just saying that very few people the bhakti movement started in the summer and then you accuse the BJP of being part of it what you are doing yeah but no this is not bhakti movement this is tapasya in fact Mr Rahul Gandhi said in the civil society that there are two emotions there are two pillars of Indian sort of you know Indian philosophy one is bhakti and the other one is tapasya I am doing tapasya he certainly | 2qzerKsp-cA |
985c0c894e5f-54 | tapasya I am doing tapasya he certainly doesn't want bhakti from all of us unlike many others in on the other side of the political Spectrum so you're going to come back to us after I will come back to you when the president I come back to you on the 1st of October evening in case the candidate is unanimous okay right I come back to you on the 19th of October if there is an election and there is uh announcement of the winner will be made so either in the first evening or the 19th evening I'll come and we can have this discussion thank you so much for being part of this discussion thank you very much thanks thank you for watching or listening into a i podcast with Smitha prakash do like and subscribe to whichever platform you watched or listened to it namaste [Music] thank you [Music] | 2qzerKsp-cA |