Hieuman/nyt_comments-doc · Datasets at Hugging Face

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nyt_comments_984363.0	<PERSON>’ crocodile tears are a sham. He talks of a need for racial justice. But he demands an honorable platform for the racism of the odious <PERSON>. I must assume it’s his white privilege that blinds him to the inconsistency and incompatibility of the two. When people like him and other institutions repeatedly insist on both lines, this is what we know to be true: racial justice takes a back seat to white supremacy posturing. To object to the posturing is no more inappropriate than <PERSON> driving the money changers from the temple.	591,810	null	202	[ 139342, 542361, 306329, 207673, 104320, 177460, 202872, 407884, 217293, 94717, 498638, 409877, 547727, 59277, 314466, 128497, 691, 584209, 580752, 136389, 230197, 182481, 126573, 334089, 314895, 428884, 247375, 4028, 178380, 136374, 507722, 399506, 276618, 342522, 176573, 314879, 376326, 556007, 53195, 126501, 216465, 14765, 322076, 311520, 356057, 361369, 136663, 537373, 505311, 572573, 76967, 252372, 421512, 280124, 330277, 89308, 314871, 471504, 283593, 415186, 433140, 537355, 189473, 163500, 383880, 59466, 23099, 235270, 166395, 482331, 327696, 467359, 560044, 203578, 481336, 241969, 486681, 336614, 220218, 200301, 327778, 315382, 302815, 500868, 84960, 57734, 462037, 325980, 120733, 190139, 158045, 230182, 172572, 462776, 465489, 187772, 317319, 431378, 475024, 17122, 144389, 519855, 53032, 244251, 356056, 582451, 248547, 306467, 370825, 551056, 23935, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Nice words demonstrating the emptiness of the proposition. Reduce national wealth by tariffs and the middle class will be richer. Hunh? Ridiculous. Try this instead: free trade, retraining that works, and higher taxes on the 1% and businesses to improve our general social security including health and education. This will also cut against income inequality. Time to drive the economic royalists from the temple of our democracy.	591,811	null	15	[ 402028, 401988, 433464, 402040, 471924, 382851, 229893, 310999, 401923, 414927, 187884, 401944, 470061, 568150, 442208, 163629, 266791, 429192, 51153, 444269, 401979, 491513, 415663, 471923, 402039, 401350, 101995, 162159, 432436, 192827, 401993, 207523, 471247, 400969, 259831, 444278, 259011, 287315, 337981, 417755, 524750, 480509, 357528, 44748, 363712, 371787, 423809, 16075, 434981, 87166, 306301, 450517, 262599, 514965, 87153, 273007, 382741, 406753, 204590, 23391, 378469, 440556, 309777, 247520, 458657, 363775, 85604, 426922, 433293, 229800, 455566, 395853, 38577, 228893, 56557, 359712, 87132, 149135, 173983, 79297, 382211, 227839, 218407, 100049, 467346, 260989, 249091, 444365, 402022, 364855, 330985, 236611, 467045, 378692, 415052, 444232, 194508, 414937, 401926, 409765, 473784, 444236, 402053, 506363, 341701, 466258, 248553, 168378, 229771, 555119, 313833, 347759, 569874, 229972, 425865, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	I supported the goals of the war in Vietnam and was in the military, tho not in Vietnam. I am also very critical of the times’ ongoing shame campaign against the war. That said, this article is rather too rosy. I concede the Vietnam war was largely a civil war. So was Korea. We had good reasons in both cases to choose sides. That we succeeded in one and not the other should give us pause, but only hindsight is 20/20.	591,812	[ 591757 ]	175	[ 268155, 124487, 476209, 19754, 362607, 438532, 123524, 550048, 228284, 282182, 124048, 81144, 472075, 157600, 370937, 14002, 402935, 483713, 485284, 53751, 159764, 17418, 108856, 370963, 434590, 262117, 182809, 216119, 482321, 385095, 441147, 521407, 565129, 587102, 99961, 295497, 536103, 163082, 474075, 185765, 202108, 499906, 375126, 87276, 309914, 26170, 590520, 389987, 575240, 71831, 472058, 510505, 116397, 24354, 200925, 355514, 433813, 341474, 14213, 172411, 13560, 124574, 129370, 591354, 136573, 507377, 202438, 568815, 402975, 99970, 264681, 107401, 400817, 451409, 207849, 87241, 48235, 86437, 564123, 100954, 61580, 14113, 473927, 83879, 585765, 99945, 151186, 506036, 509080, 259859, 189439, 235208, 549303, 186929, 190545, 108871, 292585, 466824, 110816, 525198, 202725, 266762, 507366, 19847, 397935, 124050, 359388, 498223, 272282, 24540, 267294, 77794, 560001, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Not bad for you. But those attributes of America you mention first can be hard to find in black communities— clean water, decent cops and fair elections where black votes are allowed and counted. Funny thing though <PERSON> you never mention that, which vitiates the rest of what you say. You do however lie about reverse discrimination and demand an honorable platform for the racism of the odious <PERSON>. Which is why you’re a <PERSON> enabler.	591,813	null	39	[ 66066, 46733, 350868, 142551, 473663, 426729, 16191, 116893, 462340, 586860, 11502, 66045, 338204, 332859, 428884, 144684, 120120, 347300, 248256, 371260, 355351, 212599, 424724, 443798, 322333, 355512, 139336, 387640, 261207, 168724, 35039, 521468, 67145, 143010, 530296, 332787, 538925, 307442, 529442, 498615, 39993, 359143, 483596, 13830, 20944, 66470, 473758, 519956, 305097, 175873, 312541, 104006, 329259, 491739, 98899, 181523, 420911, 578016, 558828, 355659, 366776, 532410, 199021, 129985, 491280, 55681, 438090, 492369, 464761, 4290, 220775, 529340, 469982, 480471, 465541, 86072, 214040, 172575, 353610, 258714, 331903, 106352, 269988, 422003, 323246, 109201, 506360, 12514, 482331, 248625, 109554, 404579, 118021, 450232, 26303, 529090, 520871, 303718, 303699, 119256, 383456, 65884, 140923, 416410, 525513, 85444, 546789, 253408, 415300, 233047, 19114, 130127, 316222, 473857, 4223, 183437, 77884, 529250, 186209, 526501, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	When too many southern whites describe slavery and treason as their heritage, we have ongoing proof that reconstruction failed as a denazification program. And mores the pity. <PERSON> would be ashamed and contemptuous of today’s Republican Party that disgraces and debases <PERSON> and the black republicans (who of course included both African Americans and whites). Only where white privilege continues to strangle could it be possible that the south’s many monuments to slavery and treason are not seen for what they are: unconstitutional badges of slavery outlawed by the national supremacy amendments.	591,814	null	252	[ 146048, 519880, 180290, 76967, 425094, 81285, 582247, 377085, 98980, 44852, 68693, 347876, 423839, 6691, 182559, 88311, 352299, 145572, 503935, 376937, 85066, 28410, 36485, 225728, 23204, 28325, 65182, 474920, 28323, 557762, 252278, 247202, 434830, 309192, 180325, 249468, 289971, 34855, 176475, 325131, 55401, 480528, 237415, 352290, 379713, 108565, 316036, 155239, 403505, 13605, 88822, 249376, 70503, 295496, 14068, 474923, 182563, 271290, 253120, 93015, 202908, 80926, 451762, 77637, 13947, 235225, 551836, 407655, 540369, 562375, 181146, 209427, 578499, 559992, 296588, 493217, 58379, 51376, 235062, 349718, 578328, 231763, 525914, 126122, 13474, 150938, 271310, 523371, 196554, 306329, 423934, 23152, 322338, 377022, 481883, 524050, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	<PERSON> your big problem is failure to reckon with sexism. Sexism is the real reason why political wives who work for their husbands never got paid. Now you can scream nepotism all you want. But there is a tension here that you boneheadly fail to grapple with. So this piece made you feel good? But in the #me too era it’s insufficiently thoughtful. I give marks to the mayor for thinking about the issue.	591,815	null	79	[ 441856, 319239, 586483, 538018, 166675, 573277, 222085, 269796, 534230, 70195, 586091, 529340, 423391, 249782, 504040, 140363, 291622, 483044, 312915, 464729, 575954, 460875, 151283, 80606, 276097, 29945, 167627, 135414, 345943, 179998, 400625, 121812, 322389, 201196, 455606, 90862, 458809, 256757, 151807, 517135, 586484, 586427, 308619, 253293, 404579, 530784, 401233, 483083, 529254, 579447, 433837, 78117, 182663, 291245, 540625, 54219, 586476, 151038, 125249, 105503, 384167, 548895, 46696, 486720, 151194, 70644, 372633, 322494, 586202, 257926, 519596, 40339, 548563, 269958, 385165, 491234, 266956, 2106, 369542, 408240, 2753, 458688, 412225, 415904, 80545, 533026, 385735, 74741, 151694, 109471, 449081, 491698, 167497, 271159, 377645, 384637, 456681, 476105, 260768, 12516, 319140, 31709, 186112, 148922, 135420, 518738, 203631, 228513, 234347, 165274, 523664, 561918, 464933, 6810, 118923, 361058, 159109, 256556, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	The last part about the value of education is good and true. The first part is probably wrong. <PERSON> either free trade is good or bad. If it’s good then by not trading freely China hurts itself by raising costs for the Chinese and using inferior products. If that is so, then why would we be so dumb as to follow suit? Now one may answer it isn’t all good or all bad, it’s mixed. But that’s a dodge unless you can prove it and I don’t think it can be. A more likely culprit for us is failure to upgrade our skills to focus on higher profit and higher tech goods. This failure on our part can be remedied by better education at all age levels, especially in sectors where we don’t compete well. And this is where inequality porn comes in— appropriate taxes will raise revenues needed for the human and plant and infrastructure retooling we need. Beggar thy neighbor is a losing proposition. Winning by superior training and product is a much better special sauce. But we can’t beat trump Tom until you stop drinking the <PERSON> defeatist lemonade.	591,816	null	64	[ 502813, 170424, 332865, 292527, 147113, 409543, 521539, 320379, 397096, 40086, 190633, 75448, 182663, 103840, 131819, 342245, 473501, 185570, 6010, 422708, 461845, 6449, 149834, 478278, 253241, 30704, 39555, 26999, 229873, 321268, 138640, 148942, 430028, 339283, 536428, 492394, 177657, 481332, 151974, 384776, 470067, 382835, 452141, 492363, 69393, 332305, 182592, 423475, 458657, 256643, 129990, 229872, 433883, 554936, 431552, 529343, 305300, 358955, 357528, 382717, 480120, 321385, 145189, 342202, 485918, 188340, 272035, 116403, 47493, 44758, 438901, 364547, 356340, 224844, 58734, 491342, 6384, 139009, 5311, 21952, 32544, 502201, 130094, 479298, 186358, 83384, 522255, 277972, 436231, 408420, 357849, 341512, 169576, 473463, 582812, 317522, 488382, 409494, 307159, 543526, 204590, 472892, 143070, 502613, 167691, 560572, 490746, 521352, 22982, 6486, 198798, 573126, 113743, 493479, 170188, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	<PERSON> was right that democrats need candidates who can win in their locales. <PERSON>, <PERSON>, <PERSON> or <PERSON> are unlikely to win elections in Manhattan. But they’re doing fine in Pennsylvania, Alabama, Montana and West Virginia. And we need all of them, just as we also need Manhattan. A big tent that stands for basic decency is a winning ticket. And the Democratic candidate is certainly preferable generically to the Republican. I think that’s the message <PERSON> should have delivered, on one of the few days he isn’t denouncing black people.	591,817	null	116	[ 383969, 261529, 185506, 354888, 237482, 374858, 393063, 92688, 534205, 291495, 180486, 463906, 447582, 524165, 384695, 449906, 513662, 165897, 524314, 560659, 393008, 534195, 534242, 211438, 534245, 249187, 196781, 188887, 8622, 500615, 47477, 587646, 461783, 91401, 578625, 35230, 475143, 62650, 368726, 147970, 243961, 276315, 439396, 202878, 556644, 508129, 429258, 257824, 337345, 167713, 113435, 524169, 557449, 328346, 395795, 9046, 211623, 49102, 449236, 291531, 149831, 316455, 194006, 504543, 130874, 479651, 418397, 165725, 563142, 424308, 524178, 393078, 211152, 449591, 549205, 171934, 215868, 185548, 211071, 474158, 362601, 52060, 473717, 434354, 504525, 393025, 154449, 149735, 516594, 211615, 522539, 335743, 574982, 85645, 429307, 393062, 388600, 149659, 239648, 124810, 244479, 485938, 467721, 359140, 534207, 461961, 65056, 158217, 539550, 1073, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Wrong on America the beautiful: o beautiful for pilgrims’ feet whose stern impassioned plea a thoroughfare for freedom beat across the wilderness.... America America God mend thy every flaw, confirm thy goals with self control, thy liberty in law. That’s merely geographical? Hogwash. And one other thing, too bad Israel gets weary about hearing about the racist part of the star spangled banner. Those of us who are black do not.	591,818	[ 591757 ]	27	[ 9277, 209900, 416162, 443152, 491342, 293458, 305460, 527343, 127472, 28060, 20563, 275831, 431497, 23703, 15751, 302529, 560564, 366160, 115127, 248861, 10260, 317806, 522622, 83685, 245452, 238166, 537223, 135263, 481489, 245340, 505366, 42357, 223851, 234572, 579265, 269945, 140451, 248268, 444822, 431640, 538685, 112201, 350695, 420027, 308416, 48239, 180883, 539746, 285891, 68386, 369266, 168243, 407381, 318942, 271932, 501341, 400587, 344693, 252326, 559667, 208563, 372475, 566554, 568665, 214569, 154113, 75766, 212568, 327013, 90600, 221059, 465564, 288738, 43122, 46197, 212845, 468212, 474510, 13987, 560038, 528604, 169527, 229358, 179182, 320601, 166225, 103666, 268135, 514621, 370554, 268543, 56410, 275842, 392459, 208224, 559666, 526176, 154614, 421466, 254212, 335471, 26073, 36547, 405752, 584194, 67714, 487072, 449874, 95388, 550718, 4390, 112722, 516127, 56120, 352857, 316213, 541380, 139333, 274416, 96029, 345762, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	This is not your best piece. <PERSON> doesn’t like the press. So what? He’s entitled to his opinion. And the press can and should hit back. Your advice that they pretend to be contrite is wrongheaded. By the way, you really mean the not pro trump press. Failure to contest the field would leave it to <PERSON>, <PERSON>, and <PERSON>. That would be a big mistake. Fight fire with fire, remembering their fire is only heat. Ours is heat and light.	591,819	[ 591757, 591763 ]	31	[ 190277, 403914, 171073, 456542, 239817, 176292, 535866, 419310, 100638, 227241, 121282, 136339, 450007, 142024, 448312, 278357, 136787, 22226, 322010, 477147, 334427, 508213, 367172, 462641, 344237, 70233, 150825, 248706, 526749, 537135, 258077, 550682, 245724, 396730, 156321, 84647, 49749, 473184, 447331, 54471, 2331, 267285, 407801, 539680, 223558, 468331, 493360, 551591, 450329, 120892, 322427, 581448, 193244, 324541, 577701, 473908, 563167, 302225, 94296, 289789, 575909, 429321, 138578, 236411, 94122, 337970, 386075, 404516, 278065, 304181, 560534, 254090, 318494, 86797, 469507, 585525, 8943, 514113, 201074, 294264, 104856, 281605, 508061, 462901, 420052, 287283, 276604, 346412, 10194, 345616, 246579, 296829, 110779, 130319, 385230, 69731, 244611, 395111, 227090, 498170, 385712, 289673, 469982, 16691, 54555, 464817, 588861, 171042, 573293, 456579, 31498, 268846, 149726, 97001, 537126, 287717, 375531, 403489, 116002, 445646, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	<PERSON> your critique is an amusing mixture of the ultramontanist and <PERSON>. The pope is insufficiently old guard hierarchical for you and insufficiently hawkish. Again you find yourself twisted like a pretzel as you try to square your preference for more papal authority with your desire to submit to Roman authority at a time when that authority wants you to do things you don’t like. How else to explain your truly ridiculous preference for <PERSON> as pope? Even he knew he wasn’t up to the job, being a former Nazi and all.	591,820	[ 591757 ]	144	[ 438082, 584348, 116239, 286213, 400967, 515, 297296, 331979, 105441, 199229, 156030, 385315, 578965, 140923, 580440, 202113, 486544, 405064, 399050, 143181, 511255, 80906, 532820, 573759, 5153, 396911, 556126, 350763, 9985, 487667, 197426, 267893, 65462, 264872, 419482, 327366, 80583, 270341, 373359, 411677, 402911, 550390, 154540, 434708, 246494, 432410, 297525, 54973, 240979, 242467, 580416, 90259, 155390, 537835, 492379, 464872, 167907, 330949, 477175, 277106, 513135, 192548, 34428, 261327, 368174, 537606, 18254, 151427, 573151, 175873, 483117, 586433, 109288, 183610, 283326, 395751, 261397, 58976, 403798, 12560, 262893, 301324, 445849, 177451, 574921, 264025, 19582, 19552, 110107, 2987, 378414, 285868, 78036, 525411, 157448, 314822, 521009, 182877, 399452, 307164, 383456, 5908, 151044, 149979, 73134, 347865, 179452, 487693, 572150, 202736, 109077, 543595, 510214, 37258, 96878, 118735, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	This article is what I expect from too many white people. It covers a disgrace. Therefore the involvement of blacks is highlighted and insisted upon. White people rarely find occasion to mention blacks in descriptions of triumphs. And of course the truth here is that the chain of command was white, period. But the author manages to try to shame blacks too. Disgusting business as usual	591,821	null	202	[ 402726, 13344, 14453, 14454, 177368, 69987, 48553, 14402, 374055, 167471, 513428, 172586, 437952, 474951, 544325, 333332, 535917, 583511, 513375, 13433, 14349, 437190, 335135, 431338, 539287, 491958, 527704, 8770, 179801, 553746, 400756, 521502, 69914, 446628, 2513, 516405, 98714, 285923, 140909, 29412, 10784, 448778, 323748, 51376, 84883, 403505, 132423, 12503, 382237, 117424, 282438, 553741, 383103, 74134, 212059, 142622, 402614, 2853, 491970, 70900, 491739, 14143, 330759, 186211, 187958, 140915, 205838, 170809, 337637, 27615, 557449, 48120, 491974, 491967, 400799, 537544, 58256, 561242, 505831, 293553, 491961, 488642, 13510, 517374, 102345, 336649, 469990, 108581, 108874, 25667, 159163, 171880, 3974, 467283, 167640, 189599, 53470, 262673, 550774, 483596, 6692, 567217, 235583, 495376, 400815, 13472, 258505, 382260, 154992, 284355, 585607, 70753, 343772, 14156, 555848, 151774, 261238, 14080, 235044, 237552, 201362, 128358, 540112, 58393, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	There are things here I don’t quite agree with. But there is one terrific thing about it: she quotes a black American intellectual as an example everyone should look up to . He isn’t listed as usual as third in a list preceded by whites. He isn’t an athlete or entertainment figure. We need so much more of that from white people. And it puts to shame <PERSON> and <PERSON> and <PERSON> who have proven themselves incapable of this simple decency.	591,822	null	202	[ 536836, 575850, 384751, 244797, 65856, 449316, 299366, 550755, 435182, 559998, 492397, 6864, 70472, 524201, 431677, 172575, 4410, 215968, 5338, 488558, 200301, 32620, 366241, 177368, 58979, 490857, 356042, 466406, 289671, 460035, 151774, 427339, 524086, 585439, 549093, 142622, 54366, 252621, 422451, 492366, 431655, 316986, 142400, 67119, 101708, 48120, 440483, 132970, 153071, 524047, 468705, 141366, 574385, 524259, 445120, 161558, 220303, 64244, 585775, 385792, 169780, 253063, 98648, 413604, 499518, 54642, 35061, 328187, 585607, 172219, 471527, 475067, 209490, 279275, 342582, 553746, 149396, 50100, 240819, 550114, 561712, 12392, 321177, 334929, 285325, 256396, 481336, 221501, 483763, 559877, 203745, 58380, 331934, 228342, 335646, 539273, 159971, 496445, 322705, 457352, 174271, 531265, 92164, 583729, 378511, 433179, 574943, 143099, 202908, 397507, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Good piece. But the current Israeli government’s racist disrespect to President <PERSON> and its foolish disregard of Democrats will and should present ongoing difficulties for Israel’s relationship with the United States. The author may be a Republican and conservative but half the USA is not. The author should be working to repair the obvious dangers in the damage done by the Israeli government in this regard. Many of us are watching closely.	591,823	[ 591757 ]	131	[ 545719, 202118, 367390, 212654, 108946, 463443, 292152, 443849, 467552, 33931, 300935, 255088, 191605, 412541, 288225, 590924, 399912, 545721, 574497, 1129, 310264, 367772, 212506, 286914, 223022, 96544, 190515, 468027, 179287, 227587, 174909, 520288, 227274, 517865, 203587, 443768, 75935, 468032, 292624, 442157, 186367, 161856, 468014, 202119, 176474, 180445, 29002, 339747, 310174, 91115, 242988, 181362, 14643, 568806, 255117, 222785, 402729, 136490, 231663, 433498, 104669, 319284, 507872, 300896, 100236, 346307, 48599, 195429, 399749, 333648, 224143, 35554, 26595, 219529, 114791, 457992, 186662, 468033, 545730, 368950, 321643, 491531, 347457, 415750, 373513, 292877, 190237, 443789, 245805, 292602, 225619, 350439, 285112, 514965, 108602, 516464, 468028, 237718, 113744, 274838, 352288, 236632, 62599, 368236, 561374, 473405, 193599, 295810, 568864, 276780, 272932, 142180, 342465, 311568, 392162, 330725, 222163, 231737, 587920, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	The author suggests whites need to stop being prejudiced. Indeed they do. In the very long meantime however I suggest we black men and boys continue to do the best we can on all fronts. I posit that in fact we do better than the odds against us would appear to allow. I believe that freed from those restraints we will do better yet. But just remember it takes longer to make bricks without straw. And great talent. And all in the face of the racism of the odious <PERSON>, and his white columnist supporters at the NYT who want him to have an honorable platform from which to spout that trash. Takes us full circle, doesn’t it: whites need to stop being prejudiced.	591,824	null	202	[ 216111, 298367, 464735, 140834, 456096, 476650, 146048, 363815, 140915, 361384, 293936, 468357, 3398, 237415, 366241, 527502, 142382, 74134, 5395, 524047, 218036, 529226, 262614, 70472, 522543, 265296, 417776, 516405, 170809, 277156, 238160, 565021, 136718, 118230, 120157, 67484, 28402, 256206, 65182, 407870, 500435, 334929, 574747, 190632, 441610, 524054, 473862, 527704, 293650, 484310, 321438, 183879, 407688, 324976, 512694, 58666, 150464, 327119, 218883, 81353, 177227, 18405, 562835, 524178, 314896, 392631, 39027, 482651, 556308, 215096, 201362, 204601, 409939, 222099, 213183, 524030, 524053, 291687, 312589, 87310, 395065, 407085, 318425, 454979, 97620, 569393, 505831, 567479, 62903, 382237, 570078, 240745, 511183, 39882, 69431, 148156, 452274, 206486, 519199, 411677, 521588, 187956, 178659, 482092, 25891, 89780, 524092, 125712, 505230, 533477, 195993, 181568, 363435, 476648, 505838, 490129, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	<PERSON> your alleged confusion is easily explained. The eras you hark back to were all eras of white supremacy, just as every person you mention was white. Now that white supremacy is not taken for granted, now that black people have thoughts and names that can be cited and quoted— tho you do not—it must indeed be disconcerting and confusing for you. For others of us, it’s heady and refreshing: as <PERSON> or <PERSON> or <PERSON> would have told you, if only you read them. Your education, as for most white Americans is woefully inadequate and incomplete.	591,825	null	202	[ 376326, 402576, 253656, 415950, 28323, 6201, 397507, 542675, 19127, 353641, 443650, 552411, 306329, 371260, 552404, 196150, 542422, 3063, 173577, 462364, 76967, 168520, 29437, 544828, 274352, 77097, 350868, 189599, 572573, 223141, 264259, 58379, 414898, 445624, 199021, 374055, 562675, 130215, 164805, 343607, 560262, 225728, 378282, 151774, 449476, 456096, 592108, 316028, 144303, 498162, 464303, 180288, 513822, 550792, 207349, 352177, 399634, 291588, 517124, 464767, 521468, 278179, 315869, 583806, 217716, 183008, 490857, 216253, 76974, 193957, 349064, 482271, 235412, 129510, 491634, 182481, 572355, 18724, 55073, 353648, 92688, 202872, 415968, 212532, 446737, 248844, 411176, 466305, 142622, 421506, 403687, 142575, 497153, 353629, 516423, 224485, 366247, 215648, 242363, 536836, 333338, 269115, 428884, 421505, 506189, 312541, 490871, 574822, 93015, 591502, 392587, 421440, 294098, 464164, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	This is a long overdue start that should be closely studied by the white NYT columnists who constantly tout for the racism of the odious <PERSON>, who didn’t get mentioned in the article. This kind of discussion does indeed belong in college classes, and would not be red meet racism at kkk style conservative talk forums. My very pointed observation would be that whites like <PERSON> and <PERSON>, and blacks like the fatuous <PERSON>, many of whom claim to be or are in fact conservatives show very little of the common decency and respect for others that old fashioned good manners and education are supposed to.	591,826	null	10	[ 445947, 264065, 269838, 376149, 325131, 218036, 253335, 74134, 544325, 209346, 426527, 393074, 132423, 172586, 204601, 92458, 530296, 167922, 172566, 551016, 560341, 357668, 403505, 337745, 316174, 557697, 236066, 53398, 11689, 565657, 522869, 234220, 103900, 110209, 392060, 300721, 344559, 436189, 286469, 167655, 273772, 527295, 253026, 491969, 295446, 315986, 262602, 142539, 26380, 366245, 170809, 519765, 565047, 98719, 329644, 441610, 509773, 384734, 460360, 404645, 488642, 327530, 585607, 440641, 156748, 205869, 493829, 67895, 56451, 326423, 366233, 527502, 284741, 498249, 409956, 262597, 110864, 413488, 81285, 183691, 205849, 589338, 575137, 209359, 407447, 460197, 86922, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	A sound theoretical discussion of alternative views about the war, then soured by an unsound screed echoing the times McCarthyite witch hunt against what this author rightly describes as a foreign policy tradition running from <PERSON> onward. The American civil war analogy is particularly unsound. Just as a counter thought: the French occupation of Mexico was defeated by the fighting of the Mexican people, armed in part by the United States, and then with the confederates beat, by 50000 union troops placed on the Mexican border to discourage any attempt by France to send reenforcements in further violation of the <PERSON> doctrine ( which no longer needed the British navy to assert itself). This was a sound move by the United States and is of a piece with trying to help the south Vietnamese	591,827	[ 591757 ]	175	[ 108743, 276433, 210388, 259868, 242672, 155245, 19754, 14326, 107254, 187325, 169651, 104577, 14287, 99961, 124574, 107313, 108707, 268137, 313823, 169236, 108162, 107944, 108709, 472075, 14113, 248823, 387673, 307904, 163272, 274755, 242722, 51177, 588647, 426575, 14782, 55344, 55275, 11261, 536407, 188283, 117323, 122157, 59919, 561372, 122148, 57190, 274754, 307902, 55306, 557674, 588624, 255507, 26474, 14002, 49426, 269247, 509826, 52791, 50393, 866, 402633, 259865, 100216, 341488, 108844, 207637, 392447, 158998, 55343, 108031, 303538, 507550, 108863, 401960, 58939, 574479, 277806, 503436, 465702, 60068, 518200, 102658, 565129, 218466, 25064, 588263, 85933, 326999, 52276, 120106, 382918, 314470, 437447, 393579, 14034, 492574, 218527, 588637, 506631, 242641, 108332, 253715, 376183, 67904, 357806, 473335, 406616, 108858, 401913, 55162, 353977, 146233, 315903, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	You rode along a bit then fell off the wagon <PERSON>. Checking privilege that promotes racism and inequality is not a bad thing as you suggest; it is a good and necessary thing. And that fact was central to founders older than the ones you cite: the pilgrims and puritans who knew that undue privilege is a sin, and like all sins must be confronted and rooted out. That is the foundation of the American creed as expressed in America the beautiful: America, god mend they every flaw.... it is also central in the battle hymn of the republic which exhorts: we are trampling out the vengeance where the grapes of wrath are stored, as <PERSON> died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.... it was also central in <PERSON>’s demand that we drive the economic royalists from the temple of our democracy. So please stop distorting American Exceptionalism, which is singular exactly in identifying the privileges of sin and excoriating them.	591,828	null	39	[ 360530, 36475, 468357, 400458, 512992, 31056, 440640, 264058, 305655, 275975, 46818, 175897, 550718, 190648, 255884, 431268, 440195, 146090, 465911, 139073, 386531, 163911, 180481, 475264, 397512, 9774, 335905, 93070, 289805, 156628, 452883, 499865, 269487, 229303, 513480, 304849, 560335, 113825, 565150, 142073, 574916, 381358, 144698, 328320, 119740, 135628, 77623, 581509, 145320, 78918, 48459, 182404, 167480, 13588, 77414, 80927, 449565, 268509, 384394, 345920, 76209, 191648, 236795, 319829, 148048, 215883, 504436, 278179, 233379, 587258, 49185, 14678, 512725, 502621, 313717, 48627, 413042, 357969, 116183, 486062, 498618, 389206, 360368, 521009, 389552, 19850, 291588, 461946, 386578, 370825, 386594, 394479, 486864, 211985, 507627, 311455, 444466, 535350, 77318, 519019, 81655, 221499, 160961, 537439, 365568, 212409, 553835, 584825, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Typos removed I hope:<br/>You agnostic, <PERSON>? <PERSON>. You're a full throated Roman Catholic Republican. And also prone to errors. Leave aside your snide and mistaken attacks on liberals, Protestants and <PERSON>. Let's take your new buddy <PERSON>. It wasn't <PERSON> that destroyed <PERSON>. it was <PERSON> who made crystal clear the lack of intellectual underpinnings for anything <PERSON> had to say. So <PERSON> played <PERSON> to <PERSON>'s Vatican, to put things in terms you could look up. The other funny thing is that <PERSON> stayed in the gop, as <PERSON> remained Roman Catholic, even after <PERSON> became Pope, to mix metaphors. In my view you, <PERSON>, <PERSON> and <PERSON> got it wrong.	591,829	[ 591757 ]	144	[ 403798, 357367, 19481, 242145, 16324, 100937, 64495, 216495, 307164, 144186, 96843, 82018, 13380, 419449, 383256, 130156, 579917, 97679, 416244, 113573, 308620, 8530, 44267, 111700, 551344, 129952, 211403, 54528, 130203, 205211, 248117, 152480, 382116, 215341, 319270, 183816, 253801, 356703, 481865, 360373, 394886, 24488, 454945, 276777, 175037, 149140, 534940, 144092, 18678, 24448, 42398, 19132, 275362, 457282, 323262, 35096, 357702, 368892, 179551, 64377, 573405, 241818, 460917, 441040, 125273, 298024, 184581, 68886, 181493, 147484, 361058, 167489, 446914, 40811, 382484, 261490, 562406, 251422, 472185, 282444, 468292, 562425, 211039, 157768, 34980, 227846, 213909, 64131, 12999, 307219, 14219, 407318, 30837, 168106, 507676, 336580, 497461, 78420, 30827, 470036, 14884, 125991, 41207, 344824, 528485, 585501, 465905, 141260, 560184, 444502, 13908, 11396, 485628, 512553, 240457, 426524, 366472, 407203, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	This is a disturbing piece because it is a dog whistle for racism. <PERSON> insinuates that the concerns of minority voters should be ignored. This is his worst piece and a great disappointment. The very same information allows for a broad coalition of interests where poor blacks and poor whites can unite in their common interest. But <PERSON> eschews that observation in favor of suggesting <PERSON> style that dems should get back in the business of race baiting. For shame.	591,830	null	47	[ 123178, 123179, 337661, 376866, 252428, 315608, 262671, 376843, 403505, 142622, 167444, 262585, 233610, 372611, 505572, 400517, 34420, 333441, 366245, 55928, 140229, 530950, 48119, 9720, 491969, 490217, 484318, 131226, 176752, 524186, 315613, 343798, 575916, 551016, 159971, 44745, 14402, 226497, 12503, 481883, 76415, 81273, 446654, 522087, 322569, 69929, 336244, 2513, 61605, 449836, 119508, 402726, 10897, 527295, 379473, 468281, 571834, 334417, 28402, 519936, 517014, 376969, 345592, 56834, 123183, 108761, 191572, 337745, 299628, 117690, 381319, 361384, 220162, 354053, 353994, 252308, 376901, 343816, 486701, 65528, 269838, 444421, 337639, 377121, 461079, 409956, 474021, 263846, 9624, 398010, 77609, 426130, 437506, 215820, 344807, 74134, 511844, 377085, 452827, 318464, 74048, 285837, 423833, 445947, 585607, 579297, 358741, 213486, 74672, 484310, 241718, 509505, 326928, 92458, 297105, 146353, 336496, 241469, 543850, 260289, 553377, 413451, 276842, 422882, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	There are very few tv shows with an overtly political bent. Whites control television but now they need a show to make them feel good about offensive racism of the <PERSON> variety. It would be disconcerting if it weren’t both risible and not unexpected. Come to think of it, it’s still disconcerting. With <PERSON> on tv and god forbid the odious <PERSON> in the classroom, we’ll have quite a <PERSON> display of confederate confetti.	591,831	null	234	[ 418729, 179092, 447165, 195731, 532163, 76283, 121984, 172691, 301912, 392459, 573197, 575388, 459027, 293102, 286391, 481745, 474793, 184145, 443625, 180301, 99596, 509084, 64396, 410482, 235745, 518703, 559849, 345203, 430577, 575330, 319233, 233113, 385547, 523890, 96727, 322579, 69724, 502088, 348450, 406328, 373993, 575065, 493784, 150052, 258406, 158590, 253924, 411739, 539442, 546293, 207849, 51391, 340206, 236034, 105842, 405551, 156636, 58159, 576205, 34448, 6198, 312171, 199272, 476197, 61719, 433916, 71855, 418251, 292720, 491075, 129347, 32719, 523926, 205732, 281880, 227158, 165353, 133525, 405537, 133883, 416328, 517197, 282582, 200815, 167500, 71416, 511775, 353872, 464836, 186329, 296898, 379203, 255621, 262786, 161945, 374714, 424413, 473976, 262918, 385768, 165023, 519768, 139348, 480993, 202391, 389160, 191524, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	We must begin with rejecting the idea that we should debate whether Jews should be exterminated, or whether blacks are really human. The failure of the times among others to insist on a moral framework for Liberalism, in its larger sense, leads to rigged outcomes. We know that you need antitrust laws to ensure free markets, not rigged markets. We know we need voting rights laws to ensure free elections not rigged elections. We also need rules to ensure free speech or we get rigged speech where the racists and tyrants get to set the terms of debate.	591,832	null	93	[ 145411, 569668, 478807, 467300, 567163, 83808, 286862, 514193, 245462, 459195, 474828, 89390, 200442, 329594, 27400, 449397, 444672, 192648, 336313, 315183, 518239, 185571, 473493, 414983, 35238, 222419, 290434, 12884, 332586, 588142, 98264, 182388, 522268, 320057, 240506, 518362, 493644, 340115, 209587, 210774, 98222, 404838, 146030, 585914, 5476, 6313, 7646, 490818, 94737, 250610, 234072, 440128, 377959, 473970, 462185, 223195, 432608, 250438, 362691, 345373, 72765, 467183, 193978, 93108, 374568, 576588, 441126, 452092, 211023, 531647, 483925, 288189, 174845, 249215, 404681, 575648, 324432, 215891, 578907, 496557, 544831, 183712, 14546, 85398, 145322, 506683, 238271, 522436, 473097, 38063, 138959, 174896, 6090, 35237, 102386, 507721, 479114, 494742, 474204, 317757, 231365, 54403, 452240, 283102, 505855, 317778, 356850, 516697, 91246, 336562, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Again a nyt writer talks about the importance of being wrongly offered a place of honor when it's not deserved. Right on! And yet so many of this ilk continue bogusly to insist that the odious <PERSON> should be offered an honorable platform for his racist theories. The only cover for the inconsistency is bad faith born of white racism. And then you get <PERSON>.	591,833	null	134	[ 270861, 542370, 172572, 281234, 235270, 176329, 482942, 567631, 242175, 212601, 162730, 585606, 40123, 584209, 140876, 521468, 2737, 57999, 7903, 490398, 202391, 373563, 517634, 441016, 381840, 425704, 387158, 152786, 119214, 97697, 366228, 207673, 362708, 579244, 8723, 506818, 29360, 119363, 519337, 327778, 502806, 204601, 15033, 519443, 55304, 198666, 579783, 186352, 229497, 586431, 52915, 579456, 529059, 158439, 7820, 522666, 548311, 475014, 540579, 249808, 425286, 472536, 431988, 453983, 59339, 272333, 527295, 89756, 471759, 235613, 478240, 356066, 218036, 485616, 353944, 349601, 248157, 252372, 524192, 550718, 283610, 299748, 354812, 107164, 26302, 311157, 366407, 305868, 407380, 6977, 560045, 294623, 298442, 318062, 174536, 38367, 356057, 382679, 67760, 477852, 426692, 9181, 228524, 344562, 185772, 330277, 383507, 236224, 217559, 19114, 587348, 542360, 589321, 228223, 327775, 333253, 283059, 138996, 94813, 136752, 548534, 399634, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	<PERSON>'s unbalanced reasoning amusingly proves the lie at the heart of the article. The<br/> <PERSON>/<PERSON> approach to politics at home and abroad has brought disgrace to both the us and Israel. It has also done nothing to solve or resolve middle eastern problems. President <PERSON> correctly strove to shore up American interests, by cultivating a balance among unpalatable regimes without more futile bush wars. It is past time to intelligently stand up for American interests and reject being tied to the agendas of bigots, whether Arab or Israeli.	591,834	[ 591757 ]	131	[ 14521, 112332, 378843, 14058, 227275, 157838, 351348, 533814, 48658, 422498, 462025, 436796, 120290, 291907, 161843, 515738, 186367, 96544, 171899, 465430, 400769, 462015, 255117, 286914, 174909, 147958, 578531, 42411, 554018, 214193, 131813, 75079, 468034, 231646, 203654, 14875, 258870, 483565, 350465, 555767, 146629, 534838, 95231, 337857, 48919, 592446, 82058, 299966, 19836, 96853, 304171, 61714, 534840, 233565, 292602, 49680, 552146, 13540, 577023, 187823, 139391, 131887, 13437, 331437, 431771, 297083, 136331, 131835, 423490, 168961, 64943, 104558, 255326, 129377, 158569, 415750, 90886, 107615, 475437, 62282, 357066, 178190, 376858, 386588, 131756, 13547, 213114, 429870, 468033, 157759, 592317, 22611, 47531, 14100, 267241, 448256, 383716, 553997, 200805, 203676, 107855, 519739, 143033, 78678, 197769, 73669, 23250, 182822, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	I supported the war. as in Korea, we had limited aims, in this case the freedom of south Viet nam and preventing the falling dominoes. lbj limited the latter but failed in the former. this author sets out how the latter could've been obtained. I thank him for that. but the price was too high, just as in Korea <PERSON>'s proposed price for beating China head on was too high. you do what you reasonably can, but don't become unreasonable. it is to lbj 's credit that he stood by that proposition even when it cost him his political life.	591,835	[ 591757, 591793 ]	175	[ 552107, 405043, 456562, 463285, 21866, 410072, 95056, 360368, 65784, 467339, 214998, 178209, 252026, 137623, 104992, 254423, 478941, 297913, 93097, 6985, 134901, 507315, 94690, 59225, 432793, 335332, 501383, 12110, 45989, 64627, 477801, 516137, 98664, 516119, 49051, 319184, 526522, 438201, 462386, 244020, 86892, 491996, 550, 377261, 378184, 427211, 100241, 268600, 212476, 183494, 568355, 262122, 309181, 559776, 32383, 652, 69670, 498576, 444568, 207946, 60997, 21664, 55569, 257095, 144070, 197053, 48449, 21671, 519757, 12093, 75321, 186756, 501160, 393475, 311462, 414680, 178511, 178387, 542351, 202646, 80483, 32232, 146388, 276597, 473384, 21668, 474227, 347959, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Point of view is essential in journalism as in everything else. It's pointless to argue otherwise since refusing to admit to a point of view is both self delusional AND adopting a point of view. investigators must start with a point of view about what the law is, and they look to see if the found conduct conforms to it. Without standards there can be no testing. Hence that wonderful old saying that exceptions prove the rule (prove in this case retaining it's old sense as test, as in assayer's proof).	591,836	null	153	[ 226924, 474431, 591201, 256823, 180573, 435377, 59936, 139315, 21459, 372096, 426992, 182518, 30131, 351848, 425143, 553136, 369064, 481731, 490311, 560982, 228813, 9179, 155580, 552678, 319512, 478861, 112981, 70085, 463591, 346304, 441368, 438191, 335131, 350535, 584593, 384803, 401101, 524866, 58609, 62147, 498744, 137094, 52077, 449459, 533302, 428877, 220538, 487613, 245979, 35923, 66861, 216568, 354601, 488653, 205130, 394018, 128550, 505159, 64045, 182295, 369213, 222163, 169095, 239142, 46243, 384778, 397917, 243014, 38249, 179494, 45629, 558778, 221923, 295335, 380947, 221940, 321941, 38204, 412248, 550040, 542996, 199276, 193095, 194749, 69902, 236641, 550646, 336240, 464719, 328086, 452578, 469552, 123851, 116123, 278926, 401104, 423412, 138313, 66998, 176926, 383278, 263501, 350756, 588908, 255269, 487559, 130826, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Obviously you're no lawyer. You're argument is not lawyerly. What the court did was look to motivation in expressed intent. That's um normal. What's abnormal <PERSON> is your insistence that the courts overlook their usual rules in <PERSON> deference. Now the now wholly political Supreme Court may do that, adding their curtesy to <PERSON>'s bow to the Muslim Saudi royals, but the rest of us will continue to snort -- at him and at you (oh and <PERSON> too).	591,837	[ 591757 ]	231	[ 476342, 158600, 209415, 222617, 491619, 353010, 53406, 155130, 446404, 53471, 107473, 400886, 260770, 147888, 122114, 147946, 94246, 302602, 362852, 121800, 327610, 224657, 522318, 303398, 151650, 196788, 6722, 408856, 310852, 205330, 315693, 199699, 440160, 4292, 365173, 178393, 448990, 243759, 229772, 310672, 592146, 178375, 43414, 362588, 172460, 360563, 39560, 143092, 230633, 466310, 98647, 242851, 433948, 147941, 268786, 524168, 531354, 109116, 14513, 43048, 75397, 166205, 434961, 318743, 285147, 510929, 291373, 124691, 524159, 112063, 81972, 582081, 516683, 511408, 449304, 324609, 278956, 261850, 51693, 212413, 75402, 142301, 506217, 369628, 274813, 413626, 353835, 378778, 140546, 22658, 381947, 75601, 384450, 492093, 410081, 18344, 479072, 197466, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Membership is still not restricted to blacks. To say otherwise is fake news of exactly the sort racists use. As for the article, i hope that in time the author will learn that deep rooted perennials are essential because the annuals while flashy come and go-- think sncc.... the legacy of <PERSON>, <PERSON>, <PERSON>, <PERSON> and <PERSON> is not so easily dismissed, NAACP all. They bloodied the heads of Jim Crow and white citizens councils. Now we need more like them, and in the meanwhile the work of the NAACP will continue to be done by everyday folks whose everyday fight for justice deserves recognition and praise.	591,838	[ 591788 ]	39	[ 311544, 14451, 73544, 293329, 399077, 271122, 488560, 142103, 252426, 379372, 483986, 457689, 119557, 210192, 200308, 284179, 66577, 150809, 525465, 24128, 279771, 543850, 14457, 4472, 297631, 84246, 126330, 491924, 357405, 208260, 377012, 478539, 445989, 508567, 558970, 384635, 573241, 35340, 393829, 386879, 177006, 372114, 98802, 99115, 256649, 93003, 120706, 386603, 519955, 473732, 184660, 487903, 435755, 218019, 135195, 168721, 189023, 301967, 172361, 18568, 7655, 280272, 163541, 389157, 329313, 231962, 356061, 505306, 138342, 157835, 181759, 488490, 196810, 517374, 3974, 207848, 547544, 350311, 51139, 419249, 383390, 14234, 567683, 14456, 5385, 366847, 43328, 84491, 583517, 544696, 211353, 142622, 302572, 521502, 579269, 443764, 352586, 498736, 114049, 289784, 180020, 540624, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Right roger? White racism is best beaten by sympathy for it? I don't think so. Understand it, yes. Beat it, yes. Coddle it? No. I am regularly amazed to read here that we must give space for bigots. Of course it's generally whites insisting on that because their ox isn't being gored. I find when it is, the same people become very thin skinned indeed. The big joke playing now is that twice in 16 years the republic has installed the vote loser as president. But white conservatives are satisfied, indeed pleased. So much for majority rule.	591,839	null	202	[ 524047, 164166, 103838, 524001, 67484, 245136, 283310, 584963, 242842, 322182, 522930, 374055, 440479, 441830, 322151, 140891, 386113, 249808, 39496, 226292, 19125, 69681, 395669, 28152, 507024, 277156, 425855, 140875, 409956, 346922, 322142, 499514, 311994, 166969, 265296, 56039, 590804, 298367, 40000, 376901, 369652, 30280, 187621, 195993, 495340, 168937, 498904, 556123, 572750, 525575, 549345, 375976, 279829, 468741, 492397, 229662, 56124, 22248, 462478, 22164, 175100, 271980, 385435, 527870, 524053, 207246, 469181, 160394, 387197, 261247, 271982, 580752, 155866, 49721, 518295, 130075, 175614, 114428, 355066, 261652, 521835, 559744, 157466, 184027, 495872, 373936, 478392, 184035, 346597, 152732, 454648, 26181, 462899, 191299, 404747, 288834, 120721, 175162, 242891, 322074, 41871, 482950, 421474, 150958, 375346, 322034, 28402, 119508, 119009, 104895, 312149, 361254, 264265, 447488, 332327, 415964, 533046, 40003, 519355, 215203, 283295, 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nyt_comments_984363.0	Of course <PERSON> is right. What surprises me is the lack of discussion about the dangers of unmooring Germany from us leadership. 200 years of history suggest an unmoored Germany becomes a threat to continental and intercontinental security-- meaning ours too. Just listen to <PERSON>'s chief opponent on <PERSON>; we've heard that German snarl before. <PERSON> is a fool to toy with letting that genie out of the bottle again.	591,840	[ 591757 ]	5	[ 501371, 184948, 454141, 120264, 87345, 236253, 530913, 497728, 95574, 135476, 59870, 409012, 357442, 222928, 366990, 520307, 471070, 573343, 366999, 14046, 524820, 582903, 345769, 431923, 573959, 511044, 534279, 76073, 555223, 254328, 217386, 149428, 24520, 528496, 117000, 268691, 58532, 415095, 13552, 119307, 386654, 461412, 461512, 119851, 262147, 119947, 284202, 511314, 510984, 190641, 445765, 393656, 74291, 128835, 490434, 225682, 275268, 507551, 262756, 298287, 352689, 376386, 416265, 588113, 428122, 206851, 400771, 222903, 447306, 363408, 138564, 307300, 68247, 308735, 286725, 400539, 406180, 255918, 98760, 246090, 188176, 337060, 508040, 170282, 322982, 431941, 473481, 496443, 318399, 591740, 431971, 279052, 47906, 572509, 26190, 103709, 489498, 515088, 72786, 337160, 359174, 542965, 313965, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Nature makes mistakes. Happens all the time.<br/><br/>Generally, though, in nature, the mistake does not have much of a chance to perpetuate itself; it pretty quickly does something stupid, because it is not capable of seeing that it's stupid, and is eaten.<br/><br/>The problem with human society from this standpoint is that we've engineered a system in which mistakes can get away with stupid behavior for a long time, and thereby perpetuate themselves. Eventually, there are a lot more mistakes out there than nature would have ever allowed, and they have a considerable impact.<br/><br/>The mark of a human mistake, generally, is that it doesn't know what it doesn't know, and it acts with the assured certainty of thinking it knows. Such people are notoriously hard to reason with or persuade as they don't even start from the same set of assumptions a more logical mind would, or, often, even a basic grounding in reality.<br/><br/>So don't assume having some actual brains around would make any difference here--the mistakes the "brains" would be trying to convince would respond to a reasoned policy argument with "and we've had spaghetti three times this month".	591,841	[ 591861, 591926 ]	114	[ 409849, 509609, 388809, 155848, 451297, 403934, 586389, 536559, 317988, 113844, 386016, 322215, 537835, 580546, 367166, 329805, 223002, 89986, 151592, 206594, 314114, 40380, 582538, 377266, 65498, 567405, 329220, 577347, 250342, 390472, 364844, 517174, 118449, 585989, 144603, 359601, 545667, 294206, 431679, 146496, 78837, 212261, 97023, 492369, 142033, 268523, 202060, 574560, 295443, 5744, 479223, 543891, 40053, 119096, 216694, 251999, 351236, 278088, 200574, 422145, 530646, 39990, 92922, 561626, 431194, 38842, 515056, 419780, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	The problem, actually, may be that "a point by point refutation of illiberal thinking is a far more powerful way to move the progressive agenda forward" is a proposition not supported well by the most relevant sociological and psychological research.<br/><br/>This is not limited to progressive agenda, but seems to encompass all.<br/><br/>Apparently, mere exposure to viewpoints is not all that effective, and a viewpoint's reasonableness often has little effect on how well it is accepted. People seem to latch onto those premises that support their already held idiosyncratic worldviews, and reject much of the rest, no matter how logically argued. In fact, considerable evidence exits that exposing people to well-argued opposite viewpoints caused many to double down on their original beliefs, almost as if these inoculate them against change.<br/><br/>The literature on this is too extensive to get into detail about here, though a quick perusal of Googledocs will turn up much.<br/><br/>This is not to say I disagree with the idea of logically arguing a point of view. But it does seem as if logical argument is not as effective as a persuasion method as many would hope.	591,842	null	93	[ 171286, 263501, 226924, 489575, 240773, 26632, 11738, 5021, 206084, 297591, 489586, 489958, 237508, 448771, 216035, 186301, 251955, 395450, 158046, 471620, 321982, 509168, 325131, 360131, 211995, 331357, 80478, 170928, 172570, 249274, 512006, 569009, 572433, 78859, 489938, 213358, 484079, 136316, 71162, 72128, 384537, 240486, 305479, 105549, 362543, 214610, 93602, 558651, 561390, 371041, 528045, 511129, 179969, 268527, 39911, 301711, 345485, 549399, 252721, 240685, 304221, 235745, 556166, 303018, 326173, 158657, 473146, 65706, 424996, 412711, 198748, 223996, 69878, 209465, 207675, 182522, 562318, 348852, 436264, 429936, 357229, 490054, 406196, 400055, 286872, 413166, 82255, 220460, 454589, 544042, 6070, 182424, 500568, 359943, 516257, 187314, 70261, 261139, 497019, 546276, 427941, 153721, 50473, 332865, 78809, 80855, 432158, 80631, 272946, 377311, 100281, 5031, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I know many here have said a version of this, but, yes, I agree that <PERSON> voters--at least the more working class, economically threatened ones, as there are significant numbers of single issue (abortion, gun rights, rich oligarch) voters who vote R no matter what--need to be understood, empathized with, not talked down to. And, yes, Democrats have done a bad job of engaging such voters-- undereducated, underserved, underresourced people who might well be a natural constituency.<br/><br/>But these voters should be held responsible, for not knowing the difference between fake news sites and real ones, for reacting childishly in their anger and worry by voting for someone obviously unfit for the office, for being, in many cases, purposely low information and low reflection. <br/><br/>To be a citizen in a democracy comes with certain requirements--to pay attention to and be aware of the ongoing issues, to know candidates' stances on these, to engage in debate and parsing, even if only in your own head. Far, far too many people have abandoned these, becoming insular in their bubbles, whatever the bubbles are (including the substantial minority so insular they didn't bother going to vote at all--no excuse for that). A democracy cannot survive when huge numbers of people check out on it.<br/><br/>One doesn't have to be "all in" on politics. But one at least has to have some discriminatory power. Otherwise, even civil, rational, non-condescending discussion is wasted.	591,843	null	189	[ 178966, 151126, 511675, 366854, 311950, 21752, 104172, 87691, 359019, 446776, 35192, 156719, 360597, 481279, 261261, 262630, 79002, 222215, 475034, 86376, 212778, 126827, 500658, 215358, 193770, 81629, 579269, 405029, 367166, 370015, 353562, 484997, 468882, 130177, 190519, 468909, 163171, 473323, 5358, 278322, 473916, 6762, 467845, 239636, 361937, 126884, 261652, 486998, 480533, 58284, 256727, 517284, 459836, 523242, 369105, 491672, 39762, 559579, 420930, 468892, 180188, 55646, 190617, 261953, 289812, 327711, 302989, 353744, 15526, 475960, 405328, 136128, 321146, 277037, 487231, 521566, 465043, 149660, 533920, 80531, 296256, 394222, 516345, 226273, 217884, 80653, 415335, 136793, 334363, 146328, 198655, 462555, 330619, 352227, 480532, 204176, 235419, 344326, 144358, 382415, 182303, 223800, 39975, 180747, 407841, 453838, 463720, 58341, 457377, 183867, 291449, 565872, 246211, 291221, 22465, 381826, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	"Mr. <PERSON> gives outright, unapologetic voice to racism, sexism, contempt for “losers” and so on — feelings that have always been an important source of conservative support, but have long been things you weren’t supposed to talk about openly."<br/><br/>It's a measure of the hypocritical self-serving pablum we had become so used to hearing from politicians that, to so many of the less informed, <PERSON>'s bluster sounded like a breath of fresh air.<br/><br/>Apparently, to that cohort, it sounded truthful and resonant that which was merely unrestrained and unfettered. (And, those pronouncements about losers and Mexicans and urban African Americans and nasty women merely confirmed long held suspicions.)<br/><br/>As has been mentioned here, though, the majority doesn't swing that way; <PERSON>, and Republicans in general, have had to garner support from swaths of fringe-y "deplorables" in order to create enough of a cohort to win elections.<br/><br/>The question now is, how do you convince those who voted for <PERSON> for more prosaic reasons--like just because there was an "R" next to his name on the ballot--that the company they're keeping is not that which they'd really rather keep?	591,844	null	100	[ 470813, 311188, 392185, 259090, 377081, 157989, 348374, 386941, 570382, 35221, 130299, 414696, 129978, 385914, 516881, 39551, 534148, 80469, 322196, 450216, 208289, 39588, 492376, 574016, 6218, 322213, 330249, 291476, 451167, 432415, 226829, 121564, 407314, 523581, 545714, 458733, 51428, 356499, 523205, 337688, 133578, 81658, 329651, 93146, 65201, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I think that ridicule is often the way to go--laughter is the crack that allows <PERSON> light to get in.<br/><br/>I just think more of it should be aimed at targets other than <PERSON>, particularly Congressional ones. They have gotten us into this mess as much (or more) as <PERSON> has. Targeting some of the big donors for ridicule, such as <PERSON> or the <PERSON>, wouldn't hurt either.<br/><br/>I've been working on a game that involves the process by which the government really works--"buy the Representative a vacation in Costa Rica, get a vote for your deregulation bill!" type of stuff. The object is to become unchallengeable in your current office and then be able to run for higher office--or, become a highly paid lobbyist/oligarch if that's your bent (ah, choices--do you have more influence within the chamber or outside of it?). Whoever winds up with the most votes/politicians under control wins--not always an actual officeholder, of course. (Still a number of details to be worked out. Wondering how to turn this into an app.)<br/><br/>But yes, pin the tail on the <PERSON>, whack the lyin' <PERSON>, and all the other things one can imagine should be in play. Although I wish we had <PERSON> back--that man knew how to make the establishment foolishly overreact, which is what you ultimately want (remember when he said he'd make the Pentagon levitate, and when he threw money at the traders on the stock exchange floor?).	591,845	null	130	[ 215839, 286273, 276278, 544917, 278065, 332498, 403418, 189456, 505175, 523219, 180286, 212196, 243903, 285147, 153897, 583715, 361160, 431035, 384057, 358955, 140929, 407506, 586427, 338631, 256719, 21686, 98615, 127507, 586348, 80747, 6136, 386439, 151908, 205471, 40734, 347871, 517550, 348961, 106157, 21865, 582692, 586516, 151476, 524912, 19408, 475052, 224604, 432415, 10360, 406427, 193990, 344139, 532168, 530627, 5843, 208115, 583533, 81587, 252012, 264892, 127024, 319417, 178552, 345110, 19417, 405016, 164859, 82461, 274556, 416229, 547916, 279402, 211628, 156981, 288863, 361140, 2281, 560204, 319239, 167046, 115805, 427372, 503567, 575264, 561108, 459132, 2388, 307351, 373359, 567754, 127020, 92451, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Mr. <PERSON>'s comments about politicians of both sides being equally despicable is one of the worst kinds of false equivalence we've been enduring.<br/><br/>Yes, politicians in general are self-serving and easy to corrupt. But it's hard to argue that the Republicans have been far more self-serving and in general easier to corrupt. And they also have the nasty tendency to deny reality to much greater extents than Democrats--i.e., climate change, trickle down economics.<br/><br/>It's a good impulse to not trust politicians in general. But it's a better impulse to try to not let most Republicans within sniffing distance of a legislative or executive chamber.	591,846	[ 591847, 591968, 591848, 591918 ]	174	[ 190695, 118297, 378389, 403399, 435776, 158798, 429798, 579253, 587462, 306587, 305257, 295263, 286764, 189253, 260075, 189632, 246007, 489754, 371882, 244075, 75148, 525428, 346938, 378885, 435724, 394132, 66905, 207727, 5742, 496426, 182188, 422360, 393544, 205352, 195785, 428603, 565083, 403136, 429883, 273531, 292955, 407462, 279376, 313722, 461525, 465108, 327018, 461411, 287273, 64731, 144446, 41842, 397074, 400218, 256191, 592336, 538379, 182446, 170534, 298087, 382756, 222746, 524232, 98270, 465058, 148222, 372027, 310978, 356974, 373972, 340967, 323516, 404404, 373949, 82151, 444160, 334738, 458185, 360784, 18581, 409891, 295348, 20749, 148151, 64323, 403343, 506749, 472949, 292091, 394028, 346702, 300248, 322084, 491198, 220033, 259291, 284898, 454344, 384244, 483479, 546773, 591155, 155894, 483429, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Yes, <PERSON>, you are accurate that <PERSON> is, in the end, a weather vane pointing to whichever way the wind is blowing that minute, and swinging in another direction the next.<br/><br/>Most of us here knew that he wasn't really a Republican in the usual sense, but co-opted that party because it was easy to do (mostly because traditional Republican issue positions don't hang together very well to begin with, based on inchoate anger and hypocrisy as they are).<br/><br/>But even so, and even given our history of mediocre chief executives, the bar you are setting by trying to argue that his flightiness and incompetence are less dangerous than more willful malevolence is so low that it is practically underground. Why should anyone be any less angry that a dangerous precedent is being set in which "truthiness" is deemed factual, reality is whatever anyone says it is, and muddles are declared triumphs? Moreover, even if <PERSON> will tend more towards oligarch than overlord, some of the people lurking behind him are just waiting for a chance to say "achtung", baby.<br/><br/>It IS hard to maintain a high level of outrage day after day. But I am sure as spit gonna try. It may be the only thing standing between us and disaster, whether engendered through malice or stupidity.	591,847	null	100	[ 322186, 165064, 65122, 268553, 564864, 220750, 351716, 182924, 83532, 503906, 114001, 585474, 495212, 262714, 308557, 18991, 511040, 278285, 250640, 18907, 345580, 491342, 252414, 19228, 192935, 196438, 322180, 208009, 431655, 218169, 273565, 218167, 322626, 479571, 520880, 214520, 546946, 386547, 525622, 193370, 434447, 543953, 286446, 206659, 322034, 321355, 214879, 221690, 497481, 250420, 574585, 156957, 246710, 102372, 383538, 322196, 268653, 230342, 209542, 64260, 124705, 390163, 19531, 586556, 167442, 495254, 583986, 568016, 109946, 322156, 19212, 352963, 69075, 548563, 252593, 322048, 339870, 522934, 215549, 423397, 450232, 430094, 104926, 454126, 92829, 80803, 378530, 198628, 524902, 87960, 315659, 537827, 553688, 393014, 229775, 268522, 319485, 272611, 226302, 466284, 218148, 92333, 506934, 386398, 20529, 420408, 422008, 375066, 280860, 237807, 349265, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I hate to write this, and I certainly don't wish for it, but I suspect these incidents will go on and on, with no movement on any legislation mandating greater regulation of guns, until someone makes an automatic weapons assault on the Supreme Court or the Capitol.<br/><br/>And even then there might not be movement; after all, gunning down Congresspeople in supermarkets and at ball fields hasn't done much to move the needle.<br/><br/>And even then,	591,848	[ 591904, 591918, 591875, 591865, 591939, 591927, 591924, 591963, 591970, 591846, 591925, 591856, 591898, 591916, 591955, 591966, 591953, 591920, 591915, 591887, 591912 ]	157	[ 458124, 463872, 291060, 583920, 471568, 489329, 64058, 315293, 587239, 319544, 472024, 463869, 121935, 65498, 552094, 87525, 402646, 386688, 44112, 344467, 151317, 387945, 142685, 590918, 205492, 59212, 216425, 43101, 434724, 432789, 362781, 44889, 160374, 60613, 6852, 540059, 184352, 223986, 497427, 299610, 57602, 64040, 398832, 215934, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	"Taxes are the price I pay for the benefits of civilization."<br/><br/>--Oliver Wendell <PERSON>'s amazing that among economically developed nations only in the United States do we want a high level of services but eschew taxing ourselves to pay for it. Nations in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, et. al., have problems of their own--but this is not one of them.<br/><br/>Of course, these nations also don't allow their elections and officeholders to be beholden to lobbyists and oligarchs, either. (Publicly funded elections, anyone?)	591,849	null	186	[ 126385, 392158, 263108, 549697, 471142, 519584, 230290, 112019, 525357, 272812, 14977, 351893, 406225, 35561, 477000, 491799, 106715, 122154, 456671, 98794, 384323, 44661, 291830, 139352, 278053, 284681, 585717, 87145, 524028, 58869, 106688, 217761, 284679, 116356, 87158, 229848, 14278, 192783, 120168, 256875, 87219, 296079, 212974, 310816, 533445, 568726, 22173, 433854, 536820, 414522, 571116, 495921, 451644, 81318, 134962, 35598, 241426, 475890, 126879, 523037, 524179, 176478, 418059, 281956, 479566, 539007, 230304, 22291, 313052, 192420, 25475, 395146, 382291, 360327, 449426, 230294, 150894, 71366, 213384, 389588, 566573, 253365, 230348, 190304, 56986, 202629, 204356, 310289, 269395, 263106, 342525, 369814, 145960, 582873, 457813, 19887, 61918, 15366, 290547, 87161, 375386, 203573, 49552, 421157, 81501, 2937, 7482, 229902, 523935, 247963, 34591, 66389, 52442, 643, 6849, 62304, 563570, 257812, 424425, 75339, 68837, 126878, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Absolutely.<br/><br/>The single most impactful reform we can make in our nation? Public funding of elections. Severe limits on private contribution to campaigns and politicians.<br/><br/>No other developed nation allows its elections and politicians to be so compromised by oligarchical contributions, or allows a one- dollar-one-vote system.<br/><br/>If we stopped this and publicly funded all elections, we could set limits on campaign time, types of ads, bring back some form of the Fairness Doctrine . . .and maybe, just maybe, officeholders would start representing the interests of the larger majority of voters instead of those of the current tiny number of rich campaign contributors.	591,850	[ 591893, 591871, 591941, 591904, 591846 ]	166	[ 230205, 203325, 230375, 583669, 438812, 534357, 230308, 230125, 292545, 230052, 230033, 230178, 196118, 230060, 230192, 224346, 229784, 230365, 230214, 383224, 275174, 230239, 229832, 461695, 230464, 230312, 230462, 484096, 337492, 230487, 424964, 572758, 160863, 230170, 584415, 230172, 262732, 553887, 202632, 296852, 392324, 348064, 309661, 201151, 230167, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	There are a number of commenters here who are putting forward the proposition that free speech stops at the corporate door.<br/><br/>That makes me profoundly nervous; corporations and employers have far too much power already. I'm not comfortable thinking that one can be disciplined or fired for making statements not connected with the specificities of their job or workplace, but apparently our politics have moved to a place where this is acceptable to quite a large section of the population.<br/><br/>I remind people that while the First Amendment has limitations--one should not shout "fire" in a non-burning building, to cite one famous Supreme Court case--we should all be somewhat questioning of just what these limitations are.<br/>And I would suggest that if one cannot express a non-work related opinion without workplace retaliation then the right of free speech there is essentially meaningless. Do we want to be in that place?	591,851	null	224	[ 292271, 483486, 20815, 108096, 28302, 513191, 370908, 560932, 447417, 158935, 411250, 478807, 235215, 259980, 235243, 45310, 456590, 419568, 518479, 4446, 483313, 193095, 504358, 272946, 315066, 525116, 12884, 118034, 240506, 379359, 385370, 136579, 81868, 500421, 543901, 320967, 6495, 476686, 201629, 524880, 328513, 148429, 590978, 475677, 5168, 564956, 331317, 319523, 590019, 324593, 32909, 323340, 25517, 240492, 139268, 349289, 98890, 306106, 324420, 560921, 21641, 51706, 489750, 5889, 375526, 174896, 310313, 135126, 479556, 539598, 304899, 471439, 61362, 50625, 177171, 499363, 584331, 277772, 373654, 401582, 579311, 54423, 249406, 57989, 208526, 6388, 319522, 577346, 513381, 96998, 591512, 482681, 217482, 495769, 426858, 340153, 570190, 449318, 493534, 277988, 157888, 365646, 248316, 585850, 446823, 520182, 5670, 226291, 464725, 5895, 24748, 339888, 272158, 121028, 109134, 493266, 511947, 13167, 377519, 227486, 212179, 416518, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	As has been mentioned, there are, and have been, many other on-line communities. Many of these are moderated, or have other mechanisms for keeping out, or at least minimizing, the quack-cure advertising, trolling, or identity hiding that too often characterizes Facebook.<br/><br/>The sad thing is that many of these communities have experienced a considerable drop off in activity and potential connection since the advent of Facebook, primarily because Facebook is just easier to enter. But that ease of entry has both advantages and disadvantages, as many are now discovering.<br/><br/>I agree that a reasonable strategy might be to meet initially on Facebook, but save the serious linking and conversation for a more specific, and better controlled, on-line portal, even if needs to be created from scratch.	591,852	[ 591927, 591878 ]	239	[ 370399, 119881, 417720, 426232, 516043, 286539, 93619, 572362, 475759, 165017, 504189, 434259, 505410, 71922, 320061, 405935, 283124, 316166, 333379, 280299, 572373, 323942, 11347, 127913, 335864, 346212, 383538, 496987, 144474, 5846, 582152, 531747, 231983, 31061, 446245, 283754, 237160, 527793, 515843, 461516, 556423, 267275, 531743, 151195, 107057, 457353, 136786, 357684, 487463, 140705, 315200, 108281, 586348, 262183, 323523, 559200, 35677, 358443, 319904, 493715, 96740, 324287, 557895, 531141, 509614, 401397, 56774, 1539, 541341, 331332, 65521, 166133, 521310, 545238, 365031, 461080, 332098, 5187, 190189, 383814, 338107, 320620, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	As my ultrarunning wife constantly points out, this is a man who lied about his best marathon time. Not clipped a few seconds off, not rounded down--but flat out lied, not running a time, in any and all records that can be consulted, anywhere near what he claimed.<br/><br/>In her mind, this disqualified him from any consideration as a thoughtful legislator, or even one who deserved to be voted or appointed in to any office. I'm not a runner, but I see nothing wrong with that sentiment.	591,853	[ 591968 ]	24	[ 234381, 166641, 347845, 464823, 212426, 350029, 253671, 180142, 577905, 254232, 56951, 312725, 202660, 405496, 511281, 350045, 124512, 67977, 415960, 118093, 361131, 264881, 165066, 137869, 41698, 121085, 358511, 151581, 495317, 92533, 578652, 577288, 173736, 73215, 374759, 272236, 487237, 527895, 581741, 441905, 331908, 39388, 405800, 471267, 470236, 253011, 104121, 124371, 495731, 5923, 87341, 53202, 151478, 110593, 227452, 466558, 178799, 502227, 192923, 546013, 557442, 203249, 562948, 537499, 203293, 570984, 155470, 562877, 195449, 313678, 73778, 575461, 432112, 361117, 124501, 21920, 331502, 49627, 103004, 174963, 28435, 56034, 570983, 301267, 563589, 526600, 558767, 120987, 517223, 159601, 537777, 302287, 541431, 41662, 9517, 424736, 114047, 493425, 351005, 471514, 122094, 213835, 272646, 21896, 338971, 68755, 69670, 257161, 232797, 440337, 234248, 567953, 205310, 465930, 73841, 96988, 551874, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I enjoy a discussion of political philosophy as much as the next nerd.<br/><br/>But this one seems to be mostly an exercise in verbal gymnastics, attempting to engage in a serious analysis abstract issues that, while somewhat interesting in their own right, have little relation to the actual realpolitik that is occurring day to day.<br/><br/>And, I am highly suspicious of any analysis about the development of capitalism that doesn't even mention the rise of Calvinist ideas in Europe and their transplantation to America as a leading ethos of many of the original settlers here. Calvinist ideas of the Elect have a LOT to do with how our economy developed, and how a Social Darwinist mentality also developed in which the problem of the poor was located within the poor themselves, as a result of a lack of effort or brains or worthiness, rather than as a result of systems designed to reward certain practices and denigrate others.	591,854	null	205	[ 252624, 435991, 410315, 554052, 286335, 423842, 412179, 415924, 219973, 428771, 564950, 497809, 328187, 474962, 471461, 253620, 33091, 191107, 190605, 489599, 489685, 40136, 254574, 334817, 519581, 231786, 286273, 422978, 383550, 444795, 387863, 451530, 510007, 403126, 215206, 344267, 84111, 472372, 220390, 39834, 547752, 579194, 489822, 383653, 509531, 554339, 533784, 187728, 586024, 391080, 5334, 39821, 257296, 40128, 182515, 229793, 25415, 182481, 242232, 39934, 511118, 11668, 171576, 351353, 104172, 285564, 497790, 182502, 520549, 59249, 28328, 428398, 88171, 25395, 363805, 475059, 64247, 217788, 581379, 195491, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Agreed, <PERSON>, that this is about what kind of nation we want to be.<br/><br/>However, my cynical old brain is naggingly telling me that the United States of America never has been the nation that was advertised in the brochure, never was the nation the high-sounding language of the Constitution implied. There are many, MANY who, in fact, have no interest in being a nation of laws, who would quite gladly support a suspension of elections in 2018 or 2020, who would quite happily go along with the jailing or even shooting of the protesters who've promised to hit the streets in the event of <PERSON> or <PERSON>'s firing. And not all of them are the oligarchs whose version of the nation is a libertarian money-printing machine for them and destitution for everyone else--too many are those who are or would be destitute, who can't see they've been conned and manipulated and divided-and-conquered.<br/><br/>People attempt to comfort me by saying that American institutions and checks and balances are robust, that they've saved us before and they'll save us again, that "it can't happen here". Thinking of Germany, and Italy, and now the Philippines, and Hungary, and Poland, I wish I found that line of thought more comforting. But given that I suspect that <PERSON> is not above pulling an Achtung if he feels threatened enough . . .	591,855	null	110	[ 502247, 569075, 558369, 334671, 451961, 565873, 130077, 298367, 340846, 524281, 102366, 291964, 399338, 508220, 524029, 524187, 299989, 293948, 326367, 120176, 34013, 521759, 141935, 347322, 65704, 339951, 193811, 403419, 334183, 524100, 262885, 524268, 124605, 334543, 502621, 524203, 512940, 46476, 206473, 478068, 470966, 169506, 438805, 48456, 524269, 113190, 238284, 493534, 182248, 416615, 551548, 558364, 122120, 524179, 405541, 376069, 288960, 524254, 524295, 388565, 41593, 463922, 489705, 19425, 524323, 26227, 161019, 524047, 449254, 465858, 6045, 291690, 458801, 449722, 260218, 126964, 405564, 380260, 506954, 243553, 239521, 382973, 524038, 341353, 341282, 524101, 301663, 415249, 399671, 174490, 31310, 485551, 217184, 451167, 524189, 189419, 427821, 327743, 534061, 524192, 130078, 402697, 268598, 206565, 26306, 515073, 577499, 527703, 327718, 167537, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Still think that a lot of people talking about the reboot are missing the possibility of a stealth progressivism.<br/><br/>Have the people talking about <PERSON>'s <PERSON> sympathizing and narrow world view noticed that the writers have generally been portraying <PERSON> as the least sympathetic character on the new show, the most rigid and bigoted?<br/><br/>Those who say that <PERSON> has always been portrayed as prickly may not remember the old show well--she was prickly, sure, but rather tolerant and broad-minded in a sort of curmudgeonly way (there were a lot of gay and nonconforming characters on the original, back when that was not as commonplace on TV as it is now). The <PERSON> of 2018 is being portrayed as particularly sour and rigid; the people around her, respective of their own problems, are being portrayed as more tolerant and broadminded.<br/><br/>This can hardly be an accident, and can hardly be happening without a lot of input from <PERSON> as well as the showrunners, so I suspect that those who see the show as some sort of celebration of the <PERSON> mentality are missing the forest for the trees.	591,856	[ 591838, 591840 ]	201	[ 158233, 126249, 20907, 539998, 165058, 73284, 35067, 251099, 479500, 2226, 484996, 239395, 495086, 400408, 384097, 295589, 149533, 511971, 211583, 41496, 196127, 104764, 52128, 107121, 102949, 259361, 274578, 399156, 332897, 47304, 211422, 30318, 541839, 132196, 381523, 483093, 475065, 534518, 204031, 337260, 83487, 375665, 69756, 576095, 56174, 278802, 174972, 477521, 235395, 531303, 113580, 289532, 180302, 391079, 282282, 239397, 468767, 66784, 279531, 568382, 384396, 25348, 40865, 496975, 119666, 561049, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	We have to the part where we realize all of this harassment is part of the structure of the terms of cheerleading employment, not an unfortunate consequence.<br/><br/>Women are basically told they are going to be displayed in skimpy outfits, often dancing in ways many men find sexually stimulating, and they're going to have to deal with whatever physical and verbal harassment that results.<br/><br/>And I suspect this will go on even if there are successful lawsuits. The only way to stop it is for women to stop trying out for these squads. I know that's easy for me to say--there isn't a lot of employment for cheerleaders/dancers, and what employment exists, even in less harassing environments, is ridiculously competitive. But the only way for these situations to end is if they don't exist in the first place--these cheerleaders raison d'etre is to be ogled and fantasized about, and, for too many, to be grabbed.	591,857	[ 591865, 591970, 591954, 591927, 591914, 591939, 591912, 591915, 591836, 591949, 591930, 591878, 591933, 591963 ]	164	[ 439432, 102172, 585706, 295385, 546335, 41375, 34250, 160213, 503943, 81185, 486291, 243002, 204565, 20695, 252241, 62085, 359270, 316414, 496440, 369067, 62084, 5257, 432060, 132534, 577296, 500449, 496222, 179951, 507508, 99987, 427199, 361160, 578466, 560823, 517219, 462654, 377485, 167720, 407829, 524188, 102166, 307854, 8735, 315815, 373122, 47326, 5682, 470831, 6946, 183983, 3749, 402604, 44776, 134484, 18316, 137048, 3751, 492444, 183210, 523561, 416834, 445151, 570057, 11351, 226948, 478292, 372550, 517430, 127772, 241148, 146365, 344762, 347444, 537481, 226286, 130674, 363258, 536480, 106934, 28755, 413085, 32601, 186121, 503248, 142267, 431655, 585728, 378174, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I live in Elmhurst, Queens, with Corona just to the north, Jackson Heights just to the west, Rego Park just to the east and south. <br/><br/>It is most certainly the most diverse set of zip codes in the United States, perhaps only rivaled by a few in California. <br/><br/>And I think all the better for it. For a crowded, overpriced area, I think all of the people here get along amazingly well, united by their work ethics--the immigrants who come to this country tend to be the hardest working, most ambitious individuals from their old homelands, which is what enables them to make the jump--and by the never ending variety of their cuisines, partaking of each others' foodstuffs with great enthusiasm, and creating multi-cuisine mash-ups likely found nowhere else.<br/><br/>It's probably not as quiet in these neighborhoods as it once was for the <PERSON> and the <PERSON>. But I'll gladly trade a little noise for some more of those somoza empenadas.	591,858	[ 591865, 591970, 591836, 591941 ]	214	[ 287226, 38341, 555045, 393029, 532518, 346290, 586654, 329727, 350746, 101011, 18383, 102182, 224743, 130298, 28068, 404747, 210861, 107215, 273205, 59286, 140909, 177271, 548545, 122987, 530278, 198642, 226290, 175770, 2865, 134907, 86532, 472238, 397914, 441137, 386755, 11232, 109631, 195853, 156960, 48818, 376390, 502635, 532125, 569346, 502638, 285197, 355075, 561701, 370932, 486889, 245940, 328380, 549398, 34254, 135395, 586610, 344147, 163162, 182581, 375683, 185179, 12893, 382639, 559853, 133498, 40866, 112067, 537156, 40941, 383328, 201645, 561326, 341888, 483639, 166142, 309579, 120102, 178280, 522957, 66784, 114049, 144632, 585872, 398033, 468234, 577280, 1629, 572864, 440403, 304522, 81701, 306669, 339363, 530108, 149396, 109739, 426507, 130305, 500621, 551964, 140867, 494879, 549400, 337575, 389843, 3376, 110263, 317355, 520465, 149676, 50764, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	As has been implied by a number of other commenters here, it would be a lot easier to listen to <PERSON>' and others' attempts at persuasion if the persuaders had a more consistent ethos of respect for all life, not just fetal life.<br/><br/>But the inconsistency, and hypocrisy, of a "pro-life" stance that does not also stand against the death penalty, stand against international military adventurism, stand against the complete inalienable right to bear any sort of arm, and stand against the reduction or even complete gutting of safety net systems for those already out of the birth canal, young and old, gives a listener serious reservations about just where the persuaders' arguments really stem from.	591,859	null	142	[ 222439, 72403, 494043, 166030, 283267, 270904, 535430, 268442, 144148, 401100, 524116, 182600, 585025, 124623, 378755, 332286, 532800, 448260, 228667, 295804, 35212, 210257, 304515, 579742, 579692, 378362, 158258, 225584, 157722, 266915, 502435, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I like <PERSON> (even though, as a NYC resident, I obviously can't vote for him). Reminds me of <PERSON>, <PERSON>--those witty, aw shucks Texas progressives they sure don't make enough of.<br/><br/>But my enthusiasm is tempered by the huge uphill climb he has, and my natural political cynicism. I can absolutely see that NRA and Koch money funneling into <PERSON> coffers and those attack adds that will equate <PERSON> with the commies that all red-blooded Texans know teach at Columbia.<br/><br/>I devoutly wish those who are trying to get elected in a better way--particularly by spurning corporate donations--had a better track record at doing so. (It seems more possible in tiny states than in large ones or at the national level--see <PERSON> for an example of both.) <br/><br/>In the meantime, I hope the Democratic establishment in Texas--whatever remains of it--is spending much more time on registering new voters and turning them out on election day than on worrying about the ad budget.	591,860	null	24	[ 437851, 564706, 58284, 136062, 451123, 180782, 424194, 55812, 106853, 205117, 529243, 136078, 530631, 161976, 322140, 64623, 149665, 177475, 39654, 292430, 116761, 245150, 277039, 211642, 88721, 161581, 534388, 136080, 538302, 149660, 459801, 322196, 503994, 424903, 416403, 252053, 476712, 322152, 472425, 118188, 54464, 361926, 590462, 324345, 64395, 476259, 155836, 446776, 360881, 569119, 181345, 324176, 451769, 247249, 535823, 424385, 529226, 557449, 286926, 524117, 114012, 18403, 22508, 322034, 128350, 294500, 378493, 18991, 583778, 136128, 71911, 142358, 127223, 374968, 401521, 393025, 570401, 37791, 490079, 460954, 227261, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Quite cogent, Madame Secretary.<br/><br/>The problem is that you need to consider that a huge number of Americans--perhaps not a majority, but certainly a large minority--support <PERSON>, and <PERSON>, and his and his cronies' fascistic tendencies. <br/><br/>Indeed, a large minority actively WANT this country to suspend the civil rights of the members of many groups, and even think, according to polls, it would be a good idea to suspend the next national election.<br/><br/>We keep thinking "it can't happen here". But I'm reminded of the scene in <PERSON> "Fear of Flying" in which she describes her trip to Germany and discovery of abandoned amphitheaters, and asks why they are overgrown and unused. She is told they were built for Nazi rallies, and that modern Germans are embarrassed by them. But a native tells her "you don't understand--the Germans LOVED <PERSON>", and the scapegoating, and the parades, and the marital law--they all made things less confusing, and gave a fearful people something to believe in. Until, of course, some years and many deaths later, they didn't.<br/><br/>A hundred years from now, whoever's around to write about it will wonder how we were ever so stupid as to have chosen <PERSON>. And we'll look at him like we look at <PERSON> now. And we'll forget how he appealed to so many in the first place--and likely repeat the whole stupid process.<br/><br/>People love <PERSON> because they are confused and fearful. We need to address what brings that fear, and that confusion, or this repeats.	591,861	null	14	[ 456524, 322142, 277037, 524164, 130077, 553633, 259671, 121042, 550717, 484243, 159864, 483056, 569677, 338428, 292559, 48458, 282236, 53830, 524257, 460974, 423203, 508569, 368743, 74227, 211456, 555084, 38069, 117872, 381155, 524267, 376582, 244842, 524029, 473505, 140929, 172685, 214608, 339082, 511044, 272847, 210892, 592135, 180287, 190624, 113059, 322152, 474163, 219748, 78147, 268498, 328187, 268449, 273638, 280515, 5820, 530579, 149162, 444913, 5391, 504558, 560593, 285581, 421525, 588781, 346509, 500452, 205345, 78010, 185614, 145570, 362875, 366423, 65607, 248351, 80091, 29304, 34415, 37912, 573847, 80662, 524276, 215463, 71614, 104764, 256072, 509315, 520880, 13155, 292554, 122976, 524203, 151557, 224094, 590634, 6691, 524047, 9953, 272840, 317522, 559838, 134972, 132187, 286913, 135705, 81605, 180105, 561625, 472350, 520726, 268256, 504543, 449227, 222507, 440474, 336347, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Nice analysis of the psychological underpinnings of the political divide here.<br/><br/>And it dovetails very nicely with <PERSON> column in the Times today about fear as a political driver. Those with more authoritarian views are driven more by fear--or, as <PERSON> points out here in the comments, by threat and threat avoidance. Surely, those who support <PERSON> and conservatism in general feel threatened by rapid change in both economic and social roles, and choose as their targets those they see promulgating those changes--economic elites on the one hand, previously non-privileged "identity" groups (non-whites, immigrants, women, LGBTQ people) on the other.<br/><br/>What would be really important to examine, though, are what formative experiences and or genetic factors result in people becoming more open/less authoritarian or less open/more authoritarian. While <PERSON> mentions size of certain brain structures as underlying threat avoidance, I suspect that's a fairly minor factor--if biologic factors/heredity was a major factor, there'd be little change in how this was expressed across generations in the same family, and we know there is often quite a bit of change, with children often developing very different views on this from their parents, and in both directions. I suspect there's a lot of nuture rather than nature here; the trick is identifying the mechanisms.	591,862	null	93	[ 170809, 283584, 498752, 535101, 528390, 362868, 197099, 112195, 461363, 451648, 84945, 15575, 80518, 236598, 218196, 200301, 226608, 564059, 70424, 584711, 123931, 324718, 334504, 473441, 518111, 585728, 562377, 69351, 112918, 70076, 368719, 87958, 422184, 539444, 410593, 352037, 207642, 538244, 120199, 293501, 333360, 76902, 245154, 296026, 103070, 223001, 313419, 278022, 423722, 438373, 477434, 50473, 415701, 200315, 329893, 328704, 567522, 566776, 222423, 211722, 367206, 326957, 500195, 5021, 46001, 82024, 582470, 491011, 537407, 220332, 431006, 416522, 208301, 182487, 64200, 18954, 342229, 123933, 453612, 353527, 146334, 526781, 511425, 309506, 331934, 229015, 64404, 489734, 105474, 212386, 255475, 3066, 556641, 362533, 483413, 221871, 360319, 450529, 407042, 402605, 410808, 96561, 387478, 515851, 197370, 256167, 242392, 180273, 99552, 143648, 136784, 584670, 66784, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Yes, it's all been about fear.<br/><br/>But more so on the part of <PERSON>'s supporters and voters than on Trump's.<br/><br/>Trump's got plenty of fears, I'm sure, probably starting with what might be revealed by Russian kompromat--but we wouldn't have to be much concerned with any of it if it weren't for the fears of the voters who got him into office.<br/><br/>Apparently, those voters fear a black/brown/female/LGBTQ planet; they fear the loss of the economic and racial privileges they took for granted for a long time, and they fear having to rapidly adjust to a rapidly changing world. And the fear has been very motivating, whereas the need for dealing with reality has not.<br/><br/>A lot of pundits think <PERSON> got elected on the idea of "draining the swamp" and disrupting the status quo, doing things differently. I'll submit he got elected on "back to the future"--bringing things back to the way they were in the good old days, when blue collar white men had industrial jobs (and non-white blue collar people didn't), when sexual "weirdos" knew their place (generally, in the closet or at the bottom of a ravine), when never was heard a word of Spanish, when everyone went to church, when men were men, women were women (and livestock was nervous).<br/><br/>Fear, of course, can be turned to anger by the proper demagogue--fear of THEM turned to repression of THEM. We have yet to see if fear OF that fear motivates others to the type of anger expressed in ballots to the extent the original fear apparently did.	591,863	null	115	[ 400992, 351285, 146356, 222648, 356617, 420190, 468899, 398091, 475461, 64879, 215200, 2080, 452245, 444539, 574786, 65397, 559838, 310861, 271956, 45457, 532898, 261207, 226612, 248038, 74681, 568376, 449467, 556001, 274861, 233151, 559867, 580093, 329589, 87384, 522501, 64357, 177371, 31411, 186792, 475615, 143256, 137230, 425504, 198362, 121298, 354716, 183502, 582399, 304753, 195847, 513547, 72141, 296657, 491216, 47329, 221605, 180288, 34521, 353699, 434647, 560649, 62319, 180321, 389183, 217487, 66182, 31347, 415196, 334572, 450292, 101261, 173584, 329048, 257484, 224571, 19704, 179951, 405635, 417060, 432571, 563139, 584908, 243757, 52642, 380978, 458626, 229015, 256072, 401380, 374598, 582322, 156470, 532258, 56075, 315679, 168412, 201661, 547433, 161917, 570614, 25432, 292485, 106246, 298429, 348336, 69704, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	After having watched the show last night--an episode that included and incident that definitely qualified as child abuse (<PERSON>'s character holding her granddaughter's head under a faucet)--I'm beginning to wonder if the show and its writers are not involved in an attempt to illuminate the sensibilities of Trumpists, but rather in a satirical stealth attempt to show just how ignorant and misguided Trumpists are.<br/><br/>It WOULD be in keeping with the working-class feminist, pro-LGBTQ sensibilities of the original show.<br/><br/>Given the <PERSON> character's portrayal as a pussy-hat wearing "nasty woman", and the subtle incidences or <PERSON>'s character being made to look rigidly foolish, this may be a thought worth pursuing.	591,864	[ 591865 ]	201	[ 85091, 425659, 415107, 163566, 265589, 305789, 42929, 329317, 242949, 112064, 105839, 35067, 212682, 73099, 155725, 132182, 304455, 344373, 562703, 133319, 580414, 285318, 537372, 456153, 441041, 1924, 186062, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Of course what <PERSON>, and so many other columnists and commenters have said, is altogether accurate.<br/><br/>But the big mystery is still how we got to this place. A lot of people have spent a lot of time and column inches on that mystery, and it is still not close to being solved.<br/><br/>After all, if one had any iota of brain, <PERSON>'s behavior if he got into the Oval Office was easy to predict. His legacy is long, sordid, and easily discoverable. His words and behavior have always indicated he's only interested in the lucre and the ratings and that which amplifies his name and brand. And, in the process of pursuing those interests, he'll bluster, lie, cheat, steal, and denigrate/legally intimidate anyone or anything he perceives as in the way.<br/><br/>And YET, sixty-three million people voted for him.<br/><br/>THAT's the mystery.<br/><br/>I've heard/read all the theories about the racism, homophobia, fear, anger, despising of identity politics, economic insecurity, single issue-ism, and Fox/Breitbart-induced gullibility of <PERSON> voters. All of these undoubtedly contributed. But from where I'm sitting, it's not enough.<br/><br/>There is the whole Russian/alt-right hacking of our votes theory--the idea that electronically collected votes with no auditable double check were subtly manipulated in crucial localities. THAT seems more plausible than many other theories.<br/><br/>Still, we need to spend more time looking into the why here--if only to keep it from happening again.	591,865	null	152	[ 48989, 530120, 354195, 2131, 459857, 323012, 558130, 553462, 328786, 524192, 423664, 423397, 223017, 256408, 145548, 311772, 407130, 215208, 69733, 530111, 280681, 18478, 359948, 403899, 429894, 209475, 570759, 440176, 536601, 524039, 76983, 475065, 291062, 492601, 164959, 39654, 350921, 475075, 229086, 154727, 524260, 64202, 495994, 229885, 99907, 286913, 460485, 66828, 211456, 291518, 361005, 119427, 155355, 48990, 510517, 503570, 65498, 530178, 119522, 591412, 130341, 423318, 573847, 220864, 459836, 18189, 3247, 296129, 431681, 64896, 560652, 530189, 576727, 285025, 464162, 530161, 265468, 495231, 483012, 468235, 272691, 71960, 530106, 538322, 137242, 22213, 242906, 506915, 334370, 199887, 12002, 150179, 20653, 240804, 292545, 39798, 345322, 530000, 350051, 541801, 353722, 154897, 565127, 248328, 495317, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Agreed, <PERSON>. <PERSON> and his inner circle may be selfish, cruel, bigoted, and xenophobic, but they're not stupid.<br/><br/>It's just that their cunning lies in the direction of knowing how to take advantage of those who ARE stupid--how to fleece them, grift them, play on their fears, and get them to give support anyway.<br/><br/>It's certainly been said that a <PERSON> is not possible in a nation of the decently educated. In the parts of this nation that are decently educated, <PERSON> lost bigly. So, what does that make the parts of the nation that voted for him in large numbers?<br/><br/>This is what you get when you have a constant drumbeat of anti-intellectual, "don't tell me your numbers", "don't raise my school taxes" airwaving out over vast swaths of the heartland.	591,866	[ 591838 ]	189	[ 216628, 71974, 291622, 1514, 122350, 524269, 18718, 524035, 524039, 127941, 289799, 248165, 113469, 421473, 2757, 503586, 112865, 469982, 499120, 457286, 522255, 256558, 449295, 316163, 304441, 453397, 524271, 504040, 248351, 232043, 328549, 96958, 50050, 180574, 121036, 20026, 429973, 296007, 194871, 121999, 289506, 391386, 489556, 90683, 151437, 481482, 167421, 556167, 326149, 7021, 49785, 274169, 220134, 122050, 192427, 427285, 585080, 463925, 577754, 537760, 506189, 199058, 342249, 189909, 184033, 77971, 485551, 451293, 578428, 374793, 268719, 122111, 333931, 121793, 495279, 314656, 71333, 413095, 462645, 469054, 552253, 2896, 515117, 524203, 129960, 330848, 383268, 453977, 148501, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I agree, <PERSON>, that maybe more people, whatever their group affiliation, need to redefine just what the American dream is, and what constitutes success under it.<br/><br/>For a good number, that might mean going the entrepreneurial rather than the corporate employee route, as you seem to have. But this is not an easy road to go down--in large part because in the US we still have a backwards system of tying health insurance to employment status rather than ensuring it for all as a right of citizenship.<br/><br/>It would certainly be easier, if one had health coverage regardless of employment status, to start a business, pursue a career in the arts--or follow an interest in freelance investigatory journalism. There are many political reforms needed in this nation, but making sure all have health coverage regardless of employment status--and the public funding of campaigns to help reduce the pernicious one dollar one vote influence of oligarchs--are two that are well worth fighting hard for.	591,867	null	21	[ 547986, 6463, 494052, 414538, 83468, 362379, 292604, 146369, 298549, 588776, 6499, 6019, 416008, 547978, 212200, 392291, 159534, 245477, 414622, 5691, 537193, 587136, 514606, 328902, 232392, 209717, 452882, 5409, 33198, 448578, 99233, 171894, 140181, 204658, 171798, 486101, 391363, 230412, 234131, 471945, 5842, 28772, 530679, 206581, 38096, 141315, 514602, 386452, 321996, 5677, 357216, 84980, 157309, 568247, 410689, 278328, 159642, 209906, 302837, 73203, 352899, 264688, 115321, 488777, 233793, 224572, 260189, 230285, 410098, 234522, 5398, 61187, 534306, 449795, 296410, 557788, 482979, 482685, 288454, 589013, 262715, 5655, 591170, 196114, 591199, 311470, 508048, 236053, 269400, 574752, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I am certainly sympathetic, <PERSON>, to the idea that if <PERSON> tries to get down in the gutter with <PERSON>, he's playing into <PERSON> tactics and will get just as grimy.<br/><br/>Problem is, though, that when you attempt to take the high road in this country, you will get some kudos from the chattering class who were taught that one should put the argument above the person, but you'll get a lot more catcalling for being an elitist egghead--not a real person, not "one of us"--from the far greater mass of anti-intellectuals we like to cultivate here. Generally, to get your argument noticed, you have to do something to have it stand out from the cacaphony. Usually involves starting with the witty catcall or the personal insult.<br/><br/>I suspect that a lot of the media is complicit in this, as others here have remarked, helping to spotlight comments about <PERSON>'s hands and maybe minimizing the constitutional issues <PERSON>'s book brings up. But, of course, constitutional issues are more important to you as a columnist and political writer, and, admittedly, to me and many of the other well-informed commenters here, than they are for the grand majority of people out there for whom they are, well, boring. As noted, those people won't read the book anyway--they'll just see the TV appearances. And I'm sure TV people do encourage <PERSON> to play to the hyperbolic style of that medium.<br/><br/>It's unfortunante, but often you have to fight fire with fire rather than with water.	591,868	null	127	[ 449712, 123900, 121036, 369930, 90618, 276278, 65052, 560909, 80606, 529615, 268588, 531321, 7089, 533026, 285121, 419894, 486720, 39922, 367166, 130326, 560921, 18991, 119866, 431677, 517687, 80613, 198620, 41579, 577325, 546310, 113692, 501160, 121087, 371260, 319097, 402638, 211642, 295653, 67915, 189456, 512604, 418924, 581372, 68563, 121021, 149830, 530629, 511971, 531979, 586299, 588807, 520893, 136175, 358956, 513473, 158967, 296918, 64993, 218720, 151449, 397649, 105504, 355841, 585442, 288546, 43443, 489604, 493657, 197645, 182450, 167510, 41508, 126825, 151078, 322103, 397230, 315298, 270691, 83567, 274556, 321466, 239211, 110499, 237908, 520156, 140929, 415960, 488129, 19452, 558121, 122503, 524038, 522085, 569451, 398073, 398887, 415118, 492369, 583445, 130074, 344147, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I agree that in Cali (and plenty of other places) we've seen an erosion of the middle class.<br/><br/>But one must ask oneself how that happened, and the analytic answers don't bode well for the Republican ethos, or, truly, the more mainstream Democratic ethos.<br/><br/>After all, both of those have been complicit in the demise of union bargaining power, in the dismantling of truly progressive taxation of both wealthy individuals and corporations, and in the allowance of rich oligarchs to control campaign funding in a one-dollar one-vote manner.<br/><br/>Outsourcing and technological displacement have surely also contributed to the hollowing of the middle class, but still, there's nothing wrong that much more progressive taxation, a resurgence in worker's rights, stricter financial sector regulation, and a return to the Fairness Doctrine--or even more hopefully, public funding of all elections with strict limits on individual and corporate contributions (and an overturning of Citizens United)--wouldn't go a long way towards curing.<br/><br/>And I have the feeling that the rising generation is eventually going to insist on all these things, and not just in California.	591,869	null	166	[ 331333, 202658, 442654, 310638, 542829, 348308, 216655, 77388, 491192, 94345, 591744, 182380, 442574, 643, 337981, 426935, 426937, 202632, 398863, 400540, 350870, 17129, 160651, 539985, 181829, 491490, 331611, 229823, 213020, 584813, 536323, 230465, 392317, 546030, 427433, 67096, 293836, 205702, 224346, 236615, 298945, 221897, 444228, 393352, 144209, 96356, 86272, 178966, 230203, 313847, 486991, 511311, 325711, 240736, 219756, 19463, 238901, 331795, 246690, 464654, 86575, 262221, 449187, 149978, 444236, 337961, 393996, 230078, 379197, 331504, 138394, 454550, 455046, 392777, 361362, 409053, 306011, 64170, 149399, 391113, 230375, 376977, 337492, 284493, 508543, 491655, 47001, 72185, 499664, 312010, 228626, 230530, 182382, 101818, 235299, 185622, 40744, 266459, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	The undeniable power of these installations notwithstanding, I do hope they become more than just another memorial to shameless incidents in our past.<br/><br/>I am not optimistic as to that, however; the United States still does not want to face up to its history of bigotry and outright genocide--African American, Native American, Asian American, and even Jewish, Southern European, and Irish American--to anywhere near the extent that Germany has been facing up to its history, and even South Africa has been facing up to its.<br/><br/>It's certainly arguable that the installation of Le Grand Orange to our highest political office (right after that of <PERSON>) is a good indication we've still got a LONG way to go to even be mentioned in the same breath as those nations.	591,870	[ 591875, 591927 ]	252	[ 231763, 316011, 322735, 314887, 84435, 155246, 583671, 242680, 484776, 314815, 48414, 287729, 282609, 441243, 310844, 188567, 314903, 524877, 13983, 345529, 332948, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	A whole analysis of the shift in Republican control from the elites to the populists, and the word "racism" doesn't appear even once?<br/><br/>I do thing the things <PERSON> mentions, particularly social media, contributed to the speed of the phenomenon, but it's hard to imagine it happening the way it did without the backlash to the election of a President of color by a threatened white Evangelical/working class.	591,871	[ 591937, 591896, 591885, 591865, 591951, 591908, 591963, 591831, 591875 ]	134	[ 3658, 314777, 136452, 194333, 407089, 140221, 172586, 260568, 370057, 436661, 528501, 464431, 38687, 433292, 266856, 248982, 532898, 445465, 314204, 142727, 336244, 357634, 198696, 361384, 541670, 564889, 376489, 392848, 33162, 123042, 444939, 328795, 291496, 428384, 286166, 178258, 429441, 461363, 407109, 332946, 259502, 99128, 338810, 551056, 209403, 187370, 307928, 167721, 104247, 523780, 391229, 586573, 230124, 282347, 464789, 161033, 228549, 60165, 93272, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	A whole column about the war against the poor--and several hundred comments--and nobody has yet pointed out the elephant in the back of the room.<br/><br/>Can you spell C-A-L-V-I-N-I-S-M?<br/><br/>Calvinism, you may recall, is that religious offshoot of austere Protestantism that was the preferred ethos of many of the early settlers to this country, including many of the most prominent citizens, and it has done much to shape the American philosophy about capitalism and how the rich and poor relate.<br/><br/>Calvinists believe that God's favor in this life is shown through the ability of individuals to amass wealth and possessions. Those who do so are prima facie favored by God as members of the Elect, and worthy of heaven; those who do not are not favored and will not go to heaven. So, the poor obviously are not favored by God, and since they are not, it makes no sense to try to help them through charity or government program, as they are unworthy anyway, or so the circular reasoning goes. In other words, poverty is a failing of individual morality, not anything to do with a rigged system, so one's under no obligation to "help", or even notice, the poor.<br/><br/>It doesn't take a genius to draw a short line from this to rapacious capitalism, Social Darwinism, "makers" vs. "takers", and fear of a black/brown/female planet.<br/><br/>Most of the oligarchy holds the poor-are-unworthy belief; they may not know the religious origin, but American views on poverty cannot be understood without acknowledging this.	591,872	null	247	[ 252625, 274159, 397001, 105768, 252624, 465814, 482339, 62570, 9084, 344267, 562958, 557426, 204333, 500408, 469008, 495241, 489598, 81718, 565079, 496780, 148806, 183437, 158150, 265642, 444098, 86034, 528243, 40076, 272959, 369580, 465833, 580735, 252572, 287606, 182649, 474962, 426152, 57851, 393711, 158206, 368916, 364771, 564343, 262671, 364936, 190605, 205454, 337648, 3918, 489599, 237819, 198843, 524723, 44715, 250871, 277353, 366423, 64362, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	So, it's not ONLY the economy, stupid--although economic insecurity is the starting point for demogogic appeal . . .<br/><br/>Edsall's analysis, and those of the people he quotes, provide quite a lot of food for thought. But one does wonder if the election of <PERSON> would have been possible if the previous President had not been as much a symbol of "otherness"--and if the 2016 Democratic candidate hadn't been as well.<br/><br/>I suspect many white working class people who voted for <PERSON> did so because he gave them hope of change, which <PERSON> certainly encouraged with his campaign rhetoric. But when that change did not come rapidly to flyover country--when the recovery from the Great Recession did not touch most of them--they were ripe for a message of "see, the Black man advantages the line-jumpers; their situation got better and yours did not--and now there's a WOMAN running with the same ideas . . ."<br/><br/>Of course, one can not underestimate the power of conservative propaganda in demonizing both <PERSON> and <PERSON> and misrepresenting their ideas. <PERSON>, in particular, could not advance a counternarrative (and strangely, neither could <PERSON>). But the alt-right used modern technologic info dissemination channels far better and convinced those voters that the non-white/female/immigrant/LGBTQ "elite" was enjoying a party the white working class hadn't been invited to.<br/><br/>The question is who these people will turn to when the change doesn't come under a <PERSON> administration, either.	591,873	null	93	[ 136739, 198696, 378772, 532898, 402112, 218672, 300451, 382522, 426738, 241611, 158231, 402056, 566064, 524117, 407427, 48625, 276645, 278520, 380260, 457159, 461842, 519994, 85996, 533081, 158194, 140490, 140911, 291435, 475034, 495, 499437, 118041, 350999, 117690, 424832, 144843, 186606, 50948, 499090, 2951, 557449, 140875, 246909, 130484, 206455, 124605, 24398, 30142, 364896, 285048, 256419, 133615, 553907, 292430, 509773, 529991, 375056, 537355, 28160, 583040, 71830, 228900, 392302, 319949, 182244, 500511, 141186, 154291, 419869, 519122, 202387, 280515, 165655, 29010, 519121, 592162, 152642, 367163, 501161, 582834, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Part of being "patriotic"--and I am a proud liberal--is having the insight, and courage, to criticize the myth and the ethos when it is not serving everyone, when the vision, however shining, does not illuminate the entire scene, leaving instead pockets in shadow.<br/><br/>True patriots hurl a "J'accuse" at the real, in the name of the ideal. They seek to make the ideal more so for more people. They rightly denounce the racist, sexist, and xenophobic impulses that deny the dream to certain classes of people based just on membership in those classes.<br/><br/>I am very comfortable with true patriotism, the kind that wants to spread the benefits of an inclusive ideal to everyone. What we get from the insular and static, who are all too often those "pure folk" of the "heartland"--is, indeed, the refuge of the scoundrel, and of the frightened.	591,874	null	242	[ 224796, 216467, 559708, 328200, 277886, 221556, 353447, 468966, 535696, 298392, 205795, 393158, 90761, 564633, 361143, 12506, 243904, 171600, 351590, 69321, 40045, 272688, 546702, 405372, 4390, 23179, 301967, 181186, 410089, 481221, 64433, 446859, 244406, 166770, 589992, 251476, 6281, 223920, 185434, 89549, 246350, 251286, 307317, 2358, 547604, 597, 426949, 370005, 592205, 333761, 107769, 497830, 468686, 177518, 260612, 406007, 471342, 488221, 454780, 550165, 196002, 489602, 457286, 334709, 431655, 449395, 490332, 70508, 401454, 404653, 425699, 558734, 183326, 268705, 541599, 321355, 520895, 256390, 238874, 448358, 458501, 2782, 234581, 118051, 312545, 406393, 39993, 113150, 56061, 69051, 556899, 17274, 173405, 552233, 399404, 455159, 449559, 451653, 1266, 437515, 185578, 187450, 287301, 52148, 20312, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	To put it even more simply--our fundamental political argument is between those who think of freedom primarily as "freedom to"--the liberty to associate with whomever one wants, to enter into whatever economic relationships one wants, to express oneself however one wants, and "freedom from"--the liberty to not fear getting oppressed by or taken advantage of by those exercising their "freedom to", to have checks/balances/regulations on those actions that tend to produce big winners and big losers.<br/><br/>These two types of freedoms are in constant tension. Your freedom to exercise religion may well conflict with my freedom not to be killed by you exercising a religious admonition to not suffer infidels. My freedom to make a fortune by using any/all tactics may well conflict with your freedom not to be ripped off or taken advantage of in the process of making my fortune.<br/><br/>In general, the more you have of freedom to, the less you have of freedom from, and vice versa. Different societies come down on this question in different spots, and those spots historically change over time. Great Britain, for example, shifted along the freedom to/freedom from axis post World War II by taxing inherited wealth, developing the National Health Service, etc. Nordic nations are farther along the freedom from axis.<br/><br/>The US has always been more "freedom to". We sometimes take a few steps in the "freedom from" direction, but we seem to be too Calvinist to go very far.	591,875	[ 591847, 591848, 591854, 591968, 591941, 591926, 591861, 591838, 591952, 591948, 591950 ]	45	[ 448987, 112975, 441484, 416468, 286776, 386174, 135673, 90727, 255917, 341442, 450957, 469277, 171221, 81868, 301871, 401511, 124703, 261087, 124631, 208359, 200006, 53572, 557715, 264364, 236794, 60993, 492437, 561887, 369599, 212302, 347603, 483426, 126424, 416443, 99569, 272655, 211899, 444851, 31329, 16152, 214272, 572930, 514459, 266336, 275724, 253637, 163117, 502461, 491394, 310563, 17479, 378964, 148717, 299281, 83597, 483488, 285589, 470834, 26754, 229761, 234039, 260173, 227827, 312855, 564888, 265050, 365603, 245285, 483470, 458249, 468780, 302192, 577151, 531528, 307979, 449963, 18755, 300837, 274224, 279777, 30889, 446337, 146145, 303071, 77722, 249078, 453577, 184384, 245864, 216450, 452573, 347212, 318125, 73376, 136723, 88720, 425809, 204149, 186275, 15709, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Actually, nothing that new here.<br/><br/>But, I am reminded of the statement one less affluent mom made way back in the 70's when school integration and "busing" was a big issue in many areas. When asked why she fought so hard to get her son into a school in a more affluent area, she said "I can't guarantee he'll learn more there. But I guarantee he'll be TAUGHT more there!"	591,876	[ 591941 ]	180	[ 352758, 328022, 42076, 88505, 443880, 92262, 354244, 228575, 398512, 171725, 32193, 586752, 28139, 435048, 299996, 118909, 121008, 449701, 174298, 517592, 173052, 84019, 586597, 107461, 532130, 449726, 329325, 368068, 469019, 325231, 27782, 407295, 174440, 74299, 175174, 134860, 40149, 186200, 340226, 366607, 268621, 473471, 226237, 521368, 239389, 220880, 104037, 574643, 562373, 422212, 135429, 231096, 343614, 584886, 522113, 399502, 192808, 135424, 407308, 592110, 226965, 346625, 192637, 34851, 151059, 68165, 119849, 107792, 432032, 22765, 321818, 41295, 232747, 151877, 584014, 137526, 417275, 91445, 536769, 584767, 329694, 513888, 431561, 162994, 425294, 168728, 362542, 162008, 417267, 137511, 561749, 322074, 241129, 563976, 196140, 472227, 581640, 502940, 40384, 104869, 316370, 322107, 585950, 277460, 317483, 44219, 306296, 264455, 52630, 411336, 554058, 117789, 2084, 381331, 5041, 76730, 534402, 353658, 265508, 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329739 ]
nyt_comments_9848255.0	It's time for "The New Fair Deal".<br/><br/>Single payer, or at least a government option. Reinstatement of Glass-Steagall (with maybe a few new, tightened provisions). A massive WPA-style public works program, with retraining options for anyone who want them (particularly in green energy technologies). A revision of the tax code with simplified statutes, higher brackets for the very rich, and treatment of capital gains as regular income. (And then the corporate tax code can be simplified.)<br/><br/>Hardly exhaustive, but this should be a good start for a platform. And if anyone has a catchier tagline than "The New Fair Deal", fine. But it needs to be short and simple.	591,877	null	133	[ 502795, 176343, 480508, 147684, 234390, 236081, 213371, 136560, 312279, 347673, 166339, 436330, 518716, 468839, 485146, 105091, 366314, 148265, 124668, 305511, 148118, 179667, 209101, 240758, 464656, 535986, 229367, 363720, 307336, 241256, 351325, 285041, 541407, 378795, 366297, 269611, 29043, 588628, 365926, 436334, 320702, 485070, 196343, 238549, 146279, 333082, 264670, 47695, 319659, 456198, 185094, 471307, 480520, 467333, 462356, 223655, 196305, 148131, 478794, 571898, 541290, 236082, 37419, 564370, 160204, 402017, 436328, 209096, 3792, 587989, 426631, 241477, 517241, 541471, 1015, 193188, 507414, 502799, 212575, 342321, 159752, 533889, 29144, 372481, 350503, 590866, 402109, 407054, 27148, 388186, 7722, 354049, 209230, 387433, 6608, 77053, 8010, 402040, 87135, 559843, 216847, 382685, 136479, 57685, 29108, 521638, 21557, 444140, 401988, 202112, 278328, 402035, 60516, 453040, 401972, 571904, 204593, 34203, 32410, 368540, 111309, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Personally, I think we're at an <PERSON> moment. And a <PERSON> moment. And a <PERSON> moment. And a <PERSON> moment. And, I still wish, a <PERSON> and <PERSON> moment.<br/><br/>It seems these are the people willing to consistently speak real truth to power. The journalistic establishment still attempts to be nice, genteel, and "even-handed", apparently refusing to see that the usurpers have no interest in being any of those. (As other here have pointed out, about the Times article on Mr. <PERSON> today, "misled" is a poor substitute for "flat out lied".)<br/><br/>Resistance on all fronts is necessary, but resistance through ridicule (based on facts) may be one of the most important. Especially given the weak-ego personalities we're dealing with.	591,878	null	31	[ 258274, 177371, 265297, 119710, 244111, 215287, 276218, 315462, 494532, 292756, 17606, 547575, 109561, 318576, 92342, 362488, 55903, 39892, 327464, 289399, 150035, 556984, 536651, 518664, 9800, 513130, 263834, 419051, 301267, 69200, 571742, 37816, 264892, 215442, 472440, 164858, 69210, 222913, 299299, 454258, 355030, 172149, 554945, 470846, 18727, 416186, 570691, 119942, 238697, 503612, 316861, 286441, 423375, 513289, 95128, 571547, 66745, 170125, 425975, 286881, 565901, 95103, 380174, 502646, 326898, 383201, 119394, 537830, 539412, 417980, 481650, 119592, 450898, 131735, 52537, 417379, 239209, 7083, 572009, 301692, 264592, 112092, 407253, 295096, 64294, 194916, 482532, 93916, 427485, 119970, 380417, 579476, 439014, 169108, 375290, 399194, 405117, 514463, 122619, 109413, 585293, 556985, 538286, 277869, 40003, 219764, 535158, 502216, 319827, 61300, 234873, 233104, 127013, 99376, 346496, 492624, 264067, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	<PERSON> has the right idea: all the conspiracy theories seem true to <PERSON>--and he can borrow some <PERSON> ideology to support his view--because, hey, some media outlets HAVE produced unflattering articles/reviews of <PERSON> and his projects, and since <PERSON> believes everything he's involved with is the biggest and the best, they must all be involved in a vast conspiracy, because how can anyone NOT see that what's he's involved with is the biggest and best?<br/><br/>Of course, the rejoinder to that, though it's not a very original sentiment, is "you can't fix stupid".<br/><br/>Trump doesn't know, doesn't know what he doesn't know, and isn't ever going to know or know what he doesn't know. That's a deadly combination in any realm, and, naturally, particularly dangerous in a Chief Executive.<br/><br/>The real problem here is that not all <PERSON> supporters are part of the basket of deplorables; there are plenty, even Republicans, who are not stupid and know they don't know everything. But they've sold their souls for power, influence, and moolah, which they can comfortably do because they have Calivinist social Darwinism where their senses of community, compassion, and fairness ought to be.<br/><br/>The key question is how do you contain THOSE hypocrites (or at least how do you get them out of office).	591,879	null	29	[ 470012, 132558, 50109, 480025, 33089, 33213, 479542, 100225, 33034, 495352, 475044, 119829, 19371, 81394, 159900, 372629, 458911, 172351, 43042, 264128, 140412, 493668, 375536, 43117, 354894, 195963, 130208, 121100, 7000, 503567, 220592, 397420, 50083, 84831, 405723, 152738, 464268, 118498, 532626, 278183, 41620, 256363, 33051, 46514, 306526, 273667, 400625, 50189, 76770, 123871, 58657, 396927, 218700, 211642, 64555, 422969, 274612, 487249, 228013, 475948, 352598, 248345, 313678, 530243, 331772, 514618, 133865, 474887, 322142, 322166, 377562, 578623, 423318, 275507, 368743, 224583, 49891, 340312, 505520, 143007, 379426, 299004, 549025, 592148, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Agreed, <PERSON>. But the problem may well be that the first group contains a lot of low information voters, who, quite frankly, are not that politically sophisticated and who are not reachable through sophisticated sociopolitical argument.<br/><br/>They likely get most of their "news" through Fox and Breitbart in much the same way those who belong to the third group you delineate do. They certainly don't read the Times (or, the Nation, or the Atlantic, or Time, or even their local papers' editorial pages) in any numbers.<br/><br/>Democrats will have to be much more sophisticated about the psychology of fear and security, as the Republicans have been for a long time, to get any number of votes from said group.	591,880	null	66	[ 363163, 168730, 45945, 81871, 262699, 32032, 142230, 69704, 524038, 313491, 179553, 589002, 477351, 342179, 561021, 200613, 150172, 530651, 222505, 534768, 254818, 353710, 481964, 15289, 206366, 364513, 198613, 352752, 291669, 232719, 367088, 132895, 165317, 242460, 254829, 22167, 25311, 572763, 203388, 96227, 165319, 133011, 61625, 448850, 227549, 506947, 455953, 312223, 156810, 544818, 336450, 71907, 461813, 389191, 146328, 56745, 366920, 157911, 97736, 104372, 451141, 589078, 48632, 564147, 28068, 300451, 7111, 182180, 578652, 359479, 193049, 183148, 263963, 531743, 423371, 451562, 22015, 399406, 455084, 502591, 557032, 256780, 579845, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	The bigger existential mystery is how <PERSON> got any women to consent to have sex with him.<br/><br/>After all, he's been married thrice, and apparently has had at least several other affairs or liaisons. (I'm only counting the presumably consensual contacts here, not the many nonconsensual ones that have come to light.)<br/><br/>I am at a loss to determine what these women thought they were getting out of <PERSON>. Money? Reflected fame? Introductions to further their careers?<br/><br/>Either there's simply no accounting for taste, or there are some women who are willing to put up with all that comes with the <PERSON> (pun intended) in exchange for something else they want . . .	591,881	[ 591927, 591840 ]	62	[ 185643, 34473, 372008, 13110, 251033, 3697, 573247, 513222, 274779, 97974, 370045, 492557, 20884, 183975, 568048, 52380, 385033, 492420, 40473, 583828, 151397, 548560, 201782, 113606, 579471, 277982, 183984, 189823, 589044, 447048, 406611, 76573, 413195, 1781, 439383, 191201, 142267, 46671, 540881, 81185, 39995, 577255, 47314, 29635, 440700, 589081, 253063, 239117, 579017, 530118, 398870, 146804, 184107, 509565, 475826, 462691, 589115, 91130, 261233, 470596, 362693, 135429, 383763, 542893, 377550, 548540, 418803, 195735, 272809, 322049, 468984, 181030, 99987, 449205, 74543, 524033, 35115, 321550, 73173, 327015, 394548, 277087, 100178, 20532, 103941, 82400, 39996, 457377, 511258, 372680, 135414, 215573, 61870, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	This little thought experiment by <PERSON> just brings me back around to a point I've been making for a long time--our standards, for whatever reasons, are higher for liberals/Democrats than for conservatives/Republicans.<br/><br/>For whatever reasons, we seem to EXPECT hypocrisy and absurdity from Republicans, and so, in the media and elsewhere, shrug our shoulders to it when it inevitably and expectedly occurs. But if a Democrat is somehow perceived as acting in opposition to his/her supposed principles, it's as if the apocalypse has happened, and the Devil has truly come to Earth.<br/><br/>Is this because we in general don't think most Republicans or Conservatives actually have principles, so they can't really violate them? That all they are interested is power, so that anything-is-okay-if-you're-a-Republican?	591,882	null	80	[ 337390, 425446, 19084, 535770, 359172, 507522, 524182, 575972, 463839, 205478, 173071, 528048, 23333, 354879, 250796, 142979, 273531, 520640, 206745, 559900, 456535, 329651, 511887, 19548, 118015, 65614, 184177, 148587, 273667, 514181, 195358, 257232, 322131, 592102, 407015, 541242, 437889, 22085, 309544, 250925, 338775, 292433, 366164, 367088, 48511, 449163, 285639, 127104, 314656, 64104, 475991, 405518, 480538, 501491, 418008, 273620, 213823, 417590, 325170, 184148, 386507, 556710, 244042, 322184, 65297, 124955, 149672, 376497, 148222, 19543, 35327, 148343, 158577, 506243, 355074, 41863, 529744, 71894, 199651, 367139, 220944, 329674, 517896, 499520, 504443, 564917, 277358, 184043, 487409, 399136, 437053, 148869, 256423, 18334, 145513, 565063, 298329, 382948, 316783, 322196, 524174, 548800, 189888, 24464, 435745, 272162, 404473, 162008, 148915, 403954, 579269, 130351, 553688, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	As <PERSON> points out, until recently, the viewpoints of Democrats and Republicans on immigration were actually not that far apart.<br/><br/>I certainly remember many Democrats arguing for a tougher immigration policy with more consideration given to higher vocational skill levels.<br/><br/>The big elephant in the room, though (pun intended) is the split and hypocrisy within the Republican party regarding economic migrants. The party spokespeople throw red meat to the non-affluent base about how immigrants come in and compete with such non-affluent workers for jobs, and about how immigrants drive down wages. But the behind the scenes oligarchs undermine that position by continuing to deny support for universal e-verify and by actively encouraging policies to drive down wages, including looking the other way when their concerns hire illegals.<br/><br/>IMHO Democrats have not done enough to point this hypocrisy out, and have not done enough to push for employment enforcement themselves, which, if accomplished, might actually go a good way towards reducing the economic migrant flow that white working class people fear. And then the argument can be made for a well-administered guest worker program, something which almost no one talks about and which might also be an avenue of compromise.	591,883	null	223	[ 376962, 140659, 396396, 166135, 272841, 177562, 412558, 372097, 239691, 520204, 158032, 235782, 374788, 582880, 142486, 3213, 148634, 120214, 140577, 448613, 120176, 346446, 21651, 397555, 432090, 292386, 465516, 451370, 136649, 117690, 364013, 106839, 109201, 21553, 148651, 123606, 163171, 520122, 211712, 564889, 455411, 163320, 382801, 546588, 509557, 512184, 525064, 148655, 292342, 18303, 550802, 307356, 154629, 180010, 270661, 147959, 582828, 237231, 39753, 299002, 412556, 86819, 262624, 163379, 468890, 291449, 466069, 235613, 405363, 349191, 384751, 343140, 266264, 571965, 545439, 469149, 516577, 148308, 561024, 379786, 142542, 349161, 148845, 147925, 382735, 473853, 395277, 354494, 520101, 228879, 222027, 247106, 298149, 298087, 138635, 292430, 507663, 292336, 219774, 124635, 520090, 391061, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I may be echoing <PERSON>, but every time there's an attempt at a reasonable discussion of immigration policy I have to go back to the enormous hypocrisy shown by oligarchical business owners--most of whom skew Republican--on the issue.<br/><br/>These are the people who give lip service to the idea that mass immigration hurts our native population by causing job competition and driving down wages--though it is arguable that this effect is considerably more prominent in non urban areas that are less immigrant dominant, and that immigrant heavy urban areas are more economically dynamic, as many immigrants start their own businesses--but the fact remains that these are the same people who steadfastly refuse to support national e-verify, and who hire undocumented immigrants under the table, for low wages, every chance they get.<br/><br/>The fact remains that if there were major enforceable penalties for hiring undocumented people, there'd be a lot fewer of them working in the US, and we'd be having a very different discussion, which might even include a guest worker program, a topic almost never mentioned these days. And we might also be able to then discuss a framework for legal immigration, including which characteristics would be optimal, without all the racism and nationalistic baggage.<br/><br/>But the oligarchs don't want that--for them, cheap labor and pitting working class natives against fear of a black/brown nation works just fine, keeping people from noticing their pillaging and greed.	591,884	null	28	[ 376962, 148174, 479585, 5513, 106826, 163136, 364026, 561024, 364045, 473659, 321359, 47714, 351073, 503953, 409500, 379786, 180010, 142596, 422154, 364018, 396396, 568187, 281672, 541618, 556582, 376544, 323853, 177562, 257739, 5915, 544518, 260539, 372097, 124635, 359288, 239693, 99003, 5553, 509511, 494647, 322310, 451177, 402699, 476533, 174088, 5820, 469149, 462514, 387694, 235935, 579434, 364002, 272360, 395247, 35238, 440605, 142597, 120176, 402697, 355075, 426735, 401757, 218893, 166135, 106785, 239691, 372090, 60277, 4025, 409663, 364040, 278083, 136649, 281719, 317361, 21553, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	To build on what Elrod implies, it can certainly be argued, the way we've structured things, that what is good for Main Street is not good for Wall Street, and vice versa.<br/><br/>Wall Street is not fond of news that unemployment is low (even if many are underemployed) or that there is upward pressure on wages. If workers start getting a little bit bigger share of the pie, that means slightly smaller shares for the investor class and the oligarchic executives, and Wall Street stops its happy dance.<br/><br/>If, on the other hand, companies find ways to improve their bottom lines by reducing wage and benefit costs--often by reducing the number of wage earners, or their hours--their stock prices rise. The overall economy, and the circumstance of the small fry, matter not to these big sharks, who are only concerned with how much chum they can scoop up.<br/><br/>It may not be that Wall Street is not the wider economy; it may actually be that Wall Street is in contradistinction to the wider economy.	591,885	[ 591838, 591860, 591884, 591941, 591861, 591966, 591926 ]	75	[ 256502, 103988, 364665, 456827, 39671, 442655, 541346, 216534, 419705, 193530, 533650, 224373, 535030, 359672, 442603, 447508, 132610, 136506, 386424, 62363, 432875, 448194, 235928, 301895, 541347, 396163, 347764, 185112, 203190, 202601, 263237, 510026, 541348, 286499, 562598, 471994, 33236, 340223, 321006, 419706, 243754, 123194, 348634, 102826, 109512, 282917, 184229, 392921, 278340, 353520, 81137, 304634, 286949, 109598, 335416, 122249, 451421, 48694, 26096, 552730, 481198, 31028, 360374, 282137, 9560, 287459, 368586, 178739, 282139, 426155, 165907, 330098, 114227, 562378, 588990, 235723, 327801, 228679, 359753, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Nations can recover--and move forward--only when there is broad consensus within the population as to what the targets or the goals are. There may be considerable debate over process and detail, but there has to be substantive agreement on the end vision.<br/><br/>I don't think the United States currently qualifies.<br/><br/>And, it hasn't, to greater or lesser extent, at a number of points in its history. A civil war was fought over fundamental disagreement as to how to treat people brought over from Africa, one was almost fought a half century ago over how to conduct foreign policy, we are close to one now over how to allocate the fruits of technologic and economic advancement.<br/><br/>It has been argued that a great strength of the US is its diversity--the national motto is E pluribus unum--out of the many, one--but it's certainly also arguable that diversity works against developing that consensus. The England that <PERSON> writes of was a lot more ethnoculturally homogeneous than our nation, even if it had similar economic inequality. There was certainly more of a start point of shared values; here it's hard to imagine the world view of a non-white immigrant lining up well with that of a fourth generation white working class underemployed; though they may well have some circumstances in common, they are unlikely to believe that.<br/>And an additional faction, the exploitative oligarch, has vested interest in keeping them in those beliefs.<br/><br/>Recovery here will take much more than in England.	591,886	null	27	[ 18337, 433882, 85864, 433877, 356042, 34026, 53342, 376988, 98900, 140875, 39702, 50942, 441420, 64045, 314224, 236826, 350032, 201761, 248351, 240804, 191583, 247288, 350461, 363120, 523245, 96561, 82851, 151527, 440176, 64057, 149183, 115129, 297386, 126897, 196487, 557627, 239156, 178966, 260122, 578494, 172139, 25062, 551565, 329868, 362807, 402697, 299991, 182295, 532898, 199766, 267662, 272965, 169492, 536224, 187919, 474107, 517465, 359333, 171768, 500554, 103998, 215288, 56779, 448798, 119522, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Social media outlets . . .amplify.<br/><br/>That's what they are meant to do. Because the ultimate game in social media is popularity--eyeballs, clicks--and given that our lizard brain humanity is always bubbling under our cerebral cortical humanity, the easiest way to achieve that is with the ARRESTING!; with loud and bright and easy-to-react-to emotionality. Subtlety and nuance and hard intellectual work just doesn't have the same immediate allure.<br/><br/>It would behoove us all to remember that the social media adrenaline shot that results in all this hate spray is a function of the way it works, a consequence of the environment. We do have the option not to partake of that environment, and to construct reasoned critiques of that environment, even if those critiques result in additional hate spray in those realms. <br/><br/>In the end, one cannot censor one's opinions on the grounds that expressing them will result in haters hating. That is self censorship, self prior restraint, and in the end it detracts from the thesis/antithesis/synthesis process. And, in a supposed democracy, we want to keep that process.	591,887	null	224	[ 6022, 290704, 260091, 98679, 514841, 295434, 92745, 336960, 290703, 130980, 505277, 555699, 376489, 394579, 541361, 564906, 260249, 556868, 389541, 113441, 146338, 882, 322002, 150577, 130327, 389540, 240491, 55083, 318784, 519424, 311940, 262720, 582545, 531455, 389425, 224248, 214639, 262786, 481330, 256478, 265860, 372081, 90352, 389241, 357767, 51388, 477460, 5937, 333718, 405241, 18353, 173415, 203590, 220920, 471702, 41633, 401047, 311458, 277409, 197966, 384006, 210892, 272075, 95389, 420836, 349253, 586446, 592427, 375696, 273430, 404301, 69750, 506974, 5485, 391692, 554529, 586491, 495211, 417986, 367481, 540387, 5497, 304221, 343484, 420046, 363818, 273445, 483075, 586405, 446669, 454441, 93031, 381541, 167482, 74635, 112897, 562889, 39913, 449495, 409703, 234009, 40635, 146021, 489924, 377235, 242795, 572581, 438341, 65073, 560593, 264903, 58578, 148524, 383878, 246034, 448090, 555341, 588594, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	It is, unfortunately, the economy, stupid.<br/><br/>Even if the perception of the economy is not always in step with the reality.<br/><br/>Trump's tax cut bill will certainly be a disaster for the deficit, and it's a windfall for the oligarchs. But his base voters don't care about that--all they will see, in their simplicity, is that they have a few more dollars in their paychecks than they did last year. And those that vote will tend to vote their wallets.<br/><br/>Never mind that the way the tax bill is designed, many of them will see tax increases down the road. The genius of the bill is that will happen after the 2018 and 2020 elections, after which <PERSON> and a lot of his enablers won't care.<br/><br/>It's certainly possible a stock market tank or commodity bubble burst will happen between now and then, and change some voters' perceptions, but I wouldn't bet on it. As it stands now, the Republicans have outmaneuvered the Democrats again, and it looks like Congress keeps its Republican majorities in 2008.<br/><br/>Unless, of course, <PERSON> finds a really smoking gun.	591,888	[ 591918, 591951, 591842, 591847, 591955, 591963, 591893 ]	163	[ 141642, 502817, 224404, 448472, 141966, 340395, 448665, 426155, 41853, 562104, 338493, 448631, 127111, 524232, 277819, 86841, 391110, 435765, 459893, 341113, 448621, 147926, 42991, 514188, 1077, 217052, 567195, 467109, 300395, 21652, 501911, 530631, 1131, 193362, 378557, 40043, 477437, 149703, 464489, 354400, 439342, 377014, 554689, 469502, 66735, 524108, 20020, 195169, 420138, 448634, 496692, 473316, 319970, 300188, 183381, 280548, 310973, 387855, 442221, 39968, 69458, 543462, 216969, 238201, 147972, 123623, 419887, 256626, 378596, 448668, 419875, 147676, 195330, 524102, 64219, 265689, 26443, 193360, 524011, 310526, 458332, 238623, 137051, 48632, 306703, 482290, 259620, 392653, 64628, 87852, 524117, 366540, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Not sure I agree with <PERSON> here.<br/><br/>The immigration issue is still one of the most motivating get out the vote issues for the Trumpian base.<br/><br/>The mistake made in Virginia and some other contests was couching it in terms of a murderous horde of gang members descending on neighborhoods and turning them into third world shooting galleries. Even those whose neighborhoods have gang presence saw that was absurd and were turned off by it.<br/><br/>When Republicans couch the immigration in terms of economic competition and cultural discomfort, though, they find a ready audience, and often win elections with it. (Orange example one sits in the White House currently.)<br/><br/>As I've written before in these commentaries, white working class voters remember there was a time not long ago when the position of many Democrats on immigration was not that far from that of many Republicans--it involved a certain degree of limitation and more merit based eligibility. But the perception among many such voters is that over the last several years the Democrats are, in effect, pushing open borders, and that's a bridge too far for them.<br/><br/>Some kind of compromise is certainly possible--many other nations have merit based limitations on their immigrants--and if Democrats were seen working towards such compromises, they might not only get greater support for allowing DACA to expand but might pick up enough votes to eke out some more Congressional seats.	591,889	[ 591963 ]	223	[ 544390, 178966, 438739, 148651, 505987, 291449, 180684, 327711, 524163, 407447, 462450, 269107, 382495, 581377, 465516, 260539, 171758, 565879, 237213, 278335, 88728, 262709, 524117, 60277, 570614, 51654, 291510, 262630, 120233, 148657, 182431, 319848, 448351, 518115, 121539, 291563, 4260, 291450, 305435, 353510, 291447, 166233, 262624, 188649, 147949, 574062, 148634, 521914, 333567, 121549, 291488, 162950, 401399, 43033, 39983, 60280, 505944, 272954, 291440, 333790, 337394, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Very well argued, David.<br/><br/>But how do you get the vast masses of <PERSON> supporters out there--and they are vast, if not a majority--to listen to the argument?<br/><br/>There is vast unfairness involved, as well as vengefulness. But near as I can tell, <PERSON> supporters for the most part share those values, lacking empathy and desiring the punishment of those not like them; for them, it's precisely the point.<br/><br/>Too many Trumpists live in a bubble, promulgated by Fox News and AM radio talkshows, in which American values translate into "I want my nice gun wielding, church going, white male country, and everyone not like that or on board with it can leave, or die, because they aren't real Americans".<br/><br/>Obviously, we've had a failure of education and civic responsibility; these are not people who could describe what is in the Constitution, or the function of courts--and in their fear of a black/brown/female/liberal planet, they aren't going to be considering those anytime soon.<br/><br/>You, and many other columnists, academics, etc., have been making these nice, reasoned arguments in the hope that <PERSON> supporters might see some of the light. But how do you get people who in their fear find the darkness nice and warm and comforting to do that?	591,890	null	115	[ 467577, 146496, 156960, 542732, 403774, 170607, 165319, 375499, 13043, 373401, 206455, 329969, 524038, 141873, 352882, 266904, 261953, 62089, 390532, 423006, 107049, 207765, 562361, 211398, 560596, 579492, 149573, 417952, 291476, 220863, 496873, 256247, 248409, 576883, 557227, 244908, 454979, 23922, 495197, 473708, 524260, 235709, 287749, 464215, 329237, 319247, 524276, 573292, 342200, 342192, 510004, 344607, 400625, 586747, 239180, 381399, 130082, 39730, 577325, 351285, 49021, 498337, 565021, 580983, 279472, 105733, 71974, 261207, 81652, 244798, 420190, 526768, 312693, 351349, 415254, 405225, 6705, 239316, 394493, 458207, 408223, 449467, 112865, 530153, 522950, 483617, 130008, 449538, 500433, 516289, 367337, 197896, 268498, 135080, 239142, 407042, 23417, 139044, 71792, 31473, 238701, 362765, 524039, 142419, 476259, 93102, 208117, 265273, 182577, 38384, 162999, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	An interesting column from <PERSON>--wonkier than usual, although we can always count on some religious imagery in the service of making a point.<br/><br/>I might agree that an economically populist working-class supportive culturally conservative party could be the basis for American center-right majority--if that majority didn't have as major components both the money changers and the xenophobic bigots. The anti-immigrant strain in the coalition contains too many whose real problem with immigration is fear of the other, particularly the black and brown other, rather than fear of economic competition, and even those that make the anti-immigrant argument in terms of economic competition don't have enough respect for science and research to know that available evidence points more towards technology and lack of education as causes of working class decline. And, the money changers in the coalition are still too Calvinist/Social Darwinist, still too libertarian and "government is best that governs least", to recognize that they need a solid middle class that buys products and services to keep filling their coffers, and that government has a role to play in promoting that middle class, even if it means having to pay some taxes and accept some regulation. <br/><br/>On the other hand, there could just as easily be a center-left coalition with similar economic principles. <PERSON> and the campaigning <PERSON> (not the suborned governing <PERSON>) may have more economically in common than many will admit.	591,891	null	93	[ 96011, 540191, 227458, 374202, 514965, 578971, 541389, 120733, 9380, 239763, 552403, 178966, 236615, 519122, 169066, 109090, 381302, 140577, 402044, 440619, 451132, 104325, 490616, 293836, 257069, 442477, 568690, 414904, 253770, 244317, 230514, 294651, 85862, 532898, 136421, 524117, 136589, 520228, 96356, 96336, 85671, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	As a companion to I.O.K.I.Y.A.R.--It's OK If You're a Republican--I submit R.A.J.A.T.L.S.--Republicans Are Judged According to Lower Standards. (Even by non-Republicans.)<br/><br/>As many here point out, if <PERSON> or any other Democrat had been accused of one-tenth of what <PERSON> has been accused of, the clamoring for impeachment would have been deafening. But with <PERSON> and his cronies, the depredation is so pervasive it not only overwhelms, it becomes expected, and almost not worth reacting to.<br/><br/>But at the root of that, is it that we expect Republicans to be hypocrites, so when they are, it's not a surprise and we don't get as worked up about it? From where I sit, Democrats are considered to be moralists, so when one is found in "do as I say, not as I do" mode, it's as if Armageddon has occurred, and cries of shame and hypocrisy echo across the land. But when a Republican does the same . . .well, it's not quite crickets, but there's a lot of "we expect this; we are not surprised" shoulder shrugging. Apparently, Republican misbehavior is perceived as par for the course, and not worth getting all that worked up over. And this holds not only for most Republicans, but most "independents", and even a number of Democrats. It's as if there's no surprise at all when a Republican has a hand in the cookie jar (or on the private parts).<br/><br/>I don't know how things got this way, but it undeniably has helped the Republican power grab. How do we change it?	591,892	null	49	[ 61609, 497905, 130328, 475991, 476197, 211382, 427493, 534213, 524034, 318323, 322156, 81673, 473806, 64277, 373959, 298066, 19543, 172561, 189888, 574246, 208141, 448809, 6868, 428146, 518372, 419285, 189863, 217040, 303891, 189878, 192558, 314656, 393996, 390902, 290212, 553907, 58352, 579290, 419193, 530150, 458198, 390963, 585358, 473915, 196107, 532883, 119528, 545176, 407263, 256616, 18156, 506394, 184161, 275195, 431673, 587814, 486992, 225565, 469502, 537389, 459833, 415985, 455080, 578861, 145346, 514141, 418067, 524055, 395246, 448791, 226493, 238003, 588533, 67200, 367152, 450270, 578585, 130351, 172905, 459904, 331005, 110426, 378633, 474881, 91814, 381981, 135033, 139263, 462783, 228658, 121549, 530050, 104948, 569073, 489600, 322184, 440472, 357945, 178729, 61308, 6971, 179792, 379216, 491596, 147680, 70316, 471192, 451404, 347297, 380279, 524030, 211529, 100131, 522940, 495992, 195358, 564801, 541182, 465517, 69167, 197715, 364803, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Interesting analysis, and certainly in keeping with the idea that the problem of massive inequality in a democracy is multifactorial.<br/><br/>Drilling down, though, if I had to choose one reform that would make the biggest difference, and might lead to other reforms that would make differences, I would choose making all elections publicly funded. There is absolute need to take the overwhelming influence of oligarchs out of the election process by making it unnecessary for officeholders to turn to them for campaign funding. As long as this situation is in effect, elected representatives will almost by definition have to put the narrow interests of said oligarchs first, in order to keep getting funds for future campaigns, and cannot be expected to represent the interests of, really, anyone else.<br/><br/>An absolute ban on corporate/company campaign contributions, an absolute ban on contributions by individuals above a certain very low amount, and primary funding of elections through public funds might go a long way towards allowing representatives to advocate for a much broader swath of the population, and to create legislation and regulations designed to reduce inequality (minimum wage raises, legislated nationwide benefits, universal health insurance, workplace protections--the list is nearly endless). As it now stands, it is the rare politician who can stand for those things oligarchs, who have pretty homogeneous political demands, don't want.	591,893	null	166	[ 373168, 292270, 426925, 230052, 230033, 244151, 284689, 230167, 347411, 23387, 404904, 230192, 230375, 182291, 230188, 392324, 167745, 292267, 275174, 186250, 51007, 291833, 444263, 230268, 535152, 350374, 168541, 230440, 383224, 426865, 328146, 437915, 533059, 426928, 563428, 327730, 230037, 469401, 269370, 292274, 48730, 384747, 364661, 579343, 58544, 228611, 90192, 223717, 503929, 446764, 442654, 284163, 371028, 203325, 230205, 261543, 136372, 188797, 13123, 141887, 253513, 299562, 241295, 337492, 229086, 194050, 202632, 354910, 85955, 451577, 464826, 15601, 357885, 215747, 321844, 351832, 92549, 120163, 346712, 457543, 229932, 11031, 553376, 160095, 362038, 140611, 193855, 230239, 207831, 230312, 136164, 408030, 310833, 161930, 567550, 26577, 545320, 292545, 576914, 11190, 508974, 269401, 296852, 288942, 328451, 321018, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Yes, America.<br/><br/>Land of the free. And home of the gaping exit wound.<br/><br/>Yet, it's actually not true, as people in other countries think, that all of us are high-falutin' cowboys, packing multiple automatic weapons, shooting at anything that moves. There are numerous sane communities, and a number of sane states, where the right to a firearm is not sacrosanct and regulated closely. As noted, these places tend to have much lower rates of firearm death. The problem is, there aren't enough of them, and sometimes they're located next to places that don't possess that sanity and which provide freely flowing guns for the ne'er do wells in the saner locations.<br/><br/>We do have to address the fundamental attitudes about guns in those places. It's not about the 2nd amendment, though that remains a convenient crutch (it does say "well regulated militia", implying regulation). It's more closely related to fear of the other, very often the black or brown or Muslim other. And given that this is a mostly male phenomenon, it's really time to look into the sexual link (too many don't like to talk about the whole expulsion/penetration metaphor). Don't know if there's any psychological evidence on this, but I'm willing to bet that the most gun loving places and people are also the most anxious about male role and sexuality.	591,894	[ 591875, 591927 ]	203	[ 180313, 555812, 5363, 538519, 549904, 365646, 480581, 549902, 333828, 402653, 573833, 49116, 146556, 378488, 89753, 341411, 457610, 480579, 259637, 49853, 531851, 203434, 398370, 551567, 464796, 290703, 480584, 58193, 303550, 158909, 43474, 218061, 348026, 573914, 396117, 219986, 320703, 562635, 421904, 72739, 172062, 575472, 451654, 121047, 130513, 408223, 396291, 399776, 368723, 231033, 513873, 106451, 290482, 23443, 525324, 136175, 562361, 53905, 536581, 237382, 27822, 23399, 256732, 313711, 573790, 137199, 223884, 425171, 468456, 264127, 441573, 400732, 468458, 244094, 583997, 553838, 286559, 233064, 108724, 280082, 150588, 524824, 246896, 407837, 167482, 149687, 158907, 180124, 170268, 442894, 23381, 398747, 281831, 322302, 121028, 292839, 432158, 252593, 5714, 322307, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Quite on point, Matt.<br/><br/>And let me add that, all fears on the part of gun fetishists that they may need to defend themselves against an intruder, or a grizzly bear, aside, a lot of what <PERSON> talks about as regards the belief gap comes down to, as you have implied, do you basically trust the government, the state (deep or otherwise) or not.<br/><br/>If you fundamentally believe government is a help, not a hindrance, that it is basically trustworthy and tries to do the right thing, than there is no need for keeping a large batch of military style weapons under your roof. If, of course, you thing that government is not only the problem, but a danger to you and yours, then the argument is made for the arsenal.<br/><br/>It just seems to me that the arsenal keepers are, as you indicate, much more paranoid about government intentions than is warranted. Not that they could easily resist a government that truly wished them ill, as it would have bombers, tanks, and drones at its disposal.<br/><br/>And there's an element of self-fulfilling prophecy to the arsenal viewpoint--by trying to break down the government, reduce its effectiveness and its ability to provide protection and its services--a policy many, if not most gun fetishes agree with--one is just providing oneself with more excuses for the fetish.<br/><br/>We all need to build a government that is more trustworthy, not less; more effective, not less.	591,895	[ 591861, 591926 ]	203	[ 353710, 546029, 71819, 136415, 324680, 205482, 225858, 252593, 351138, 169184, 153071, 408951, 475950, 171943, 341378, 380395, 332195, 307105, 519529, 300313, 494555, 214602, 239928, 219326, 88595, 444291, 207765, 449177, 192900, 399156, 521580, 472897, 381405, 491601, 222726, 366333, 277465, 149687, 474917, 189409, 434717, 424393, 220902, 322918, 203223, 573833, 276278, 299565, 471478, 574263, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Agreed, <PERSON>, that there were many and varied voter suppression tactics aimed at African-American voters during the run-up to the 2016 election--some set up by state election boards, and some more insidious propaganda tactics urging Black folks to stay home.<br/><br/>But I think you hit on the most important factor--<PERSON>, or someone like him (and I mean by that someone African-American identified) was not on the ballot.<br/><br/>It's said to say, but voting is still far too ethnic. African American voters came out to vote in 2008 and 2012 for obvious reasons, and their votes made all the difference in the outcomes. There was no African American on the major party tickets in 2016, so the enthusiasm was not there. The decline in black voter participation in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, and many parts of Florida made all the difference in 2016.<br/><br/>The ray of hope is that people have now realized that not voting has consequences, and will not do that again, even if local powers try to make voting difficult. Certainly that seems to have happened in the Alabama Senate race and in a number of Virginia legislative races. We can only hope that trend continues.<br/><br/>But I hope no one thinks it disingenuous of me to suggest that Democrats make sure there is an African American, or Hispanic American, individual on the ticket in 2020. And perhaps that person, or the other person on the ticket, should be female. (Still think more voters are motivated by the "like me" aspect.)	591,896	[ 591941, 591963 ]	141	[ 286085, 184201, 464802, 18835, 311529, 14458, 298924, 79852, 586348, 244874, 586649, 65436, 183364, 566064, 59176, 177592, 194973, 13572, 434413, 474965, 370198, 370309, 330619, 287233, 229614, 37101, 366175, 271989, 311259, 23118, 45786, 14218, 368574, 55623, 385717, 476679, 6370, 180547, 13872, 79131, 132782, 515244, 337869, 201151, 492959, 322368, 370310, 530263, 94835, 4494, 427435, 344923, 282125, 567291, 451792, 137042, 231991, 276287, 327711, 98917, 36873, 108668, 307920, 307156, 177252, 464958, 545315, 53544, 473224, 161558, 36943, 580820, 291993, 237708, 523305, 524047, 571182, 368571, 281059, 502805, 38005, 238802, 219084, 273232, 280514, 262024, 582104, 96810, 140831, 108230, 77358, 13638, 231606, 37062, 471890, 35170, 267004, 200315, 314976, 36900, 397201, 192817, 560299, 287147, 242843, 59469, 370215, 79126, 500116, 233019, 357908, 351431, 588416, 155077, 303389, 142406, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	The current crop of Republican politicos are just Calvinist/Social Darwinists who believe poverty is located in the individual person, in their bad choices and lack of a work ethic, and never has anything to do with the circumstances of the larger world.<br/><br/>Calvinism, you may recall, was that offshoot of the Protestant Reformation that believes that one shows one's favor in the eyes of God--one's membership in the Elect--through the accumulation of material goods and wealth on Earth. If one does this, one is obviously favored by God and worthy of Heaven. And if one does not do this, one is NOT favored by God and worthy of Heaven. And, of course, those who are poor should not be helped or given anything because they are obviously not good and worthy, or so the circular reasoning goes.<br/><br/>Our oligarchs don't often use the religious justification for their greed anymore, but you can see it in their words and deeds, in their "if you're so smart, why aren't you rich" mantra, and in their contention that any sort of welfare or safety net is just going to those who don't deserve it anyway, because if they deserved it they wouldn't need it. Excellent blaming the victim strategy.<br/><br/>Of course, the real motivation behind this is that any sort of social safety net is like higher wages for workers--a drain on finite resources that should rightly go to them, the deserving job creators. It's a flimsy philosophical cover for I -me-mine greed, pure and simple.	591,897	[ 591838 ]	206	[ 40076, 6470, 81718, 459755, 426152, 270410, 557456, 427236, 476105, 281980, 256206, 554718, 549532, 5688, 229669, 542739, 21176, 411456, 503908, 264819, 583446, 469532, 158974, 319809, 486991, 106725, 226164, 558457, 180161, 6144, 565079, 31323, 214030, 261908, 109078, 51541, 81805, 105143, 393711, 232830, 360924, 386396, 118014, 521687, 268282, 336420, 5305, 287901, 158120, 462555, 504659, 6085, 443539, 309905, 503491, 483800, 592298, 107080, 237819, 164727, 592135, 473049, 443270, 398762, 243662, 178591, 312973, 337700, 524309, 495224, 428384, 153824, 364571, 364829, 268588, 486157, 211542, 180224, 39730, 471478, 6010, 113692, 288844, 566218, 262893, 364572, 442327, 473515, 436353, 531979, 256347, 360184, 125908, 546794, 572820, 451239, 450037, 94409, 454611, 167721, 218148, 439384, 94679, 296256, 107862, 218692, 109018, 496731, 197131, 44819, 378702, 109481, 576603, 165327, 18889, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Great column, Tom.<br/><br/>I'm sure I'll be quoting pithy lines from it for a long time.<br/><br/>Just one thing to add--I still do believe in <PERSON>'s idea that the arc of history is long but bends eventually towards justice, but I also believe that arc sometimes bends because it enters the gravitational field of violence. Justice, and power, is rarely granted to those that don't have it--usually, those that don't have it have to take it. And, unfortunately, that generally means with the threat or actuality of violence.<br/><br/>Even <PERSON> realized that certain regimes were not vulnerable to the non-violent process. When asked if his way could counter Nazi Germany, he said "not without defeats", and he may have been too optimistic; I have the feeling that large non-violent marches of the kind he led would have been met with tanks and machine gun fire by <PERSON>. And today, I think such marches would be met very similarly in a lot of locales. <br/><br/>It's not a premise I'm happy to espouse, but I think we're seeing how justice for people who are members of marginalized groups is harder and harder to get through persuasion and rhetoric. Most people--even far too many of the marginalized--are more fearful of that violent disruption than tyranny, so they all too readily opt for the latter; they feel what they have to lose through fight is more than what they lose by repression. <br/><br/>Almost no repressive situation ends non-violently. And there's no guarantee it'll end at all, arc or no arc.	591,898	null	14	[ 347348, 333267, 235338, 143021, 73737, 351154, 35427, 416942, 551022, 465611, 73722, 270786, 189419, 40091, 219686, 580305, 193324, 107075, 458665, 487146, 35397, 48951, 322136, 64045, 98898, 133673, 164291, 183781, 93604, 44836, 259193, 102382, 440187, 40065, 301667, 5436, 317765, 192635, 360978, 222491, 383397, 423966, 191176, 52902, 83595, 322151, 17701, 197029, 516812, 221831, 65498, 322096, 543389, 178966, 142676, 205836, 148382, 66784, 462462, 524151, 327695, 415487, 188673, 40081, 424118, 583741, 199225, 344313, 524256, 149573, 297288, 240755, 533068, 48775, 431677, 136168, 524268, 489898, 514272, 322088, 292323, 398028, 379408, 64882, 208987, 98683, 148503, 39995, 136175, 322035, 179618, 221782, 332895, 160438, 205830, 406696, 544026, 239710, 478871, 104915, 268588, 573847, 341456, 41450, 91488, 110840, 508446, 582630, 256208, 404416, 546497, 586897, 367088, 322148, 135425, 180729, 149294, 431667, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	As <PERSON> implies, I too would like Mr. <PERSON> to talk to the students at less "elite" institutions.<br/><br/>The students Mr. <PERSON> speak of seem to have not only some decent reflective capabilities, but seriousness of purpose, whatever purpose they are trying to develop. That is a good thing, but I wonder about the selectivity of the sample, both at these institutions and at others.<br/><br/>I do imagine there are many, many students at college who are there primarily for the credential that they hope leads to a decent job that will support at least a middle class life, and that their reflectivity is primarily about that, with ruminations about wider purpose and meaning a luxury they cannot afford.<br/><br/>And, of course, there's always that subset whose ruminations don't go much beyond whether to go to the Thursday night party with domestic beer or the one with imported beer. Hopefully that subset is getting smaller.	591,899	null	6	[ 149798, 252607, 207948, 180546, 177102, 452803, 94449, 28137, 227446, 341468, 270876, 183953, 393052, 146944, 501835, 35103, 166215, 458618, 6414, 183245, 522088, 480950, 284556, 460578, 221831, 320916, 387680, 133610, 54339, 528156, 504607, 28121, 474744, 224759, 368608, 126960, 300065, 341453, 586607, 88287, 180267, 6004, 216386, 44133, 217592, 200638, 468255, 341130, 3281, 422495, 556291, 498707, 532103, 276666, 322360, 248438, 451643, 582630, 268721, 480245, 279019, 482263, 209973, 366517, 258604, 410689, 57690, 64860, 281970, 146945, 322267, 9829, 126961, 167700, 257194, 343583, 439149, 490643, 264809, 5499, 226939, 433883, 188564, 2967, 212094, 258320, 253335, 496890, 434536, 533831, 584114, 265380, 90712, 562377, 180920, 279500, 296300, 504653, 471065, 194813, 555871, 478420, 203417, 114178, 151525, 254187, 334147, 28053, 126957, 540851, 269046, 409497, 304376, 34854, 109485, 433164, 498745, 583700, 474896, 406839, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Very true, Dan.<br/><br/>My academic background (psychology, sociology, political science) drives my interest in these types of discussions/debates--but I recognize all too well what a massive loud yawn most people would give to the theoretical constructs discussed here.<br/><br/>Maybe what it all comes down to stems from the old Yiddish admonition to be a mensch--take responsibility for your actions, and treat others, no matter what identity they may have, as you would want to be treated, with respect and compassion.	591,900	null	45	[ 415303, 496768, 39552, 585493, 465383, 458729, 86313, 527270, 191174, 244267, 382505, 251649, 305307, 245397, 402488, 436908, 577316, 444776, 152497, 57088, 451011, 246547, 203388, 404226, 314833, 583445, 118166, 453047, 291622, 241376, 351344, 38374, 5325, 462356, 435170, 39898, 223529, 422411, 448949, 269426, 40090, 280774, 286142, 151872, 362780, 111201, 51603, 246499, 565559, 412927, 97328, 374126, 574274, 352663, 143234, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	At least until enough progressives are voted into office that changes can be legislated, progressively-minded voters will need to grit their teeth and work hard to overcome the Republican backed measures to depress voting turnout (such as voter ID laws, repeal of mail balloting, and the like).<br/><br/>That means going door to door to make sure people are registered. That also means making sure people turn out on Election Day, with phone banks and carpools and whatever else it will take. It also means being articulate and forceful when confronted with poll workers who try to keep some people from voting when there is question over ID's and eligibility, and it also means being social media savvy enough to post these incidents online where people can see them and galvanize around them.<br/><br/>Yes, it's going to be a lot of work, and there are numerous segments of the population that may feel it's too much, that they don't want to stick necks out, that it doesn't matter anyway. To those, I say in the end, it's the only thing that does matter. <br/><br/>For those who don't think election results have consequences, take a good, long, and non-denial look around you right now. And resolve never to be in this situation again.	591,901	[ 591949 ]	141	[ 15526, 99447, 347392, 492452, 403414, 282665, 526859, 348191, 411667, 34196, 577456, 491648, 13167, 43374, 403075, 44923, 11223, 19422, 99081, 165330, 293847, 464789, 130591, 429288, 324774, 165334, 455638, 191852, 75788, 562589, 583445, 11224, 553435, 188612, 35082, 408833, 264560, 188842, 130397, 104172, 174451, 146496, 93102, 13171, 93525, 370966, 474166, 151760, 451670, 452585, 54837, 467579, 26260, 44024, 286138, 548539, 151911, 358956, 226288, 383036, 130867, 398750, 516286, 85921, 468230, 363822, 113699, 335005, 34197, 265269, 328145, 193466, 500591, 162002, 442017, 431314, 5407, 449868, 399387, 81740, 165321, 500654, 539695, 548564, 573085, 210774, 591994, 130329, 456307, 384851, 180182, 151593, 330619, 510004, 124670, 149735, 19548, 268561, 355620, 277156, 583127, 473669, 327010, 373942, 252957, 261342, 482328, 271989, 35218, 451378, 350518, 136128, 435176, 153247, 432625, 19390, 528919, 416566, 424997, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	"Am I, as a columnist, no longer allowed to use irony as a rhetorical device because there’s always a risk that bigots and dimwits might take it the wrong way?"<br/><br/>This provides the entry point into the problem you delineate <PERSON>, and also a possible solution--though the solution is likely to disquiet a lot more people on one side of the political divide than the other.<br/><br/>There are too dimwits out there. That's on all of us, but much more on the conservative side than the liberal. We have allowed education into how to discuss issues, into how to tell a logical sequence from a random one, into how to distinguish a verifiable fact from an alternative fact, to completely deteriorate, along with the deterioration of what used to be called "civics" in the curriculum. But there's no question--again, by verifiable fact--that the right side of the political spectrum has been much more guilty of this than the left. The left at least gives lip service to the idea that there are verifiable facts, and that these can be discovered. The right finds these facts at best "inconvenient" and at worse in the way of its agenda, which usually involves some Calvinist/Social Darwinist I-me-mine greed aggrandizement. <br/><br/>For the situation you describe to change, that educational environment needs to change. But the right will severely resist that, as it knows it won't do well in that environment. And that, in the end, defines false equivalence to a "T".	591,902	null	10	[ 357723, 357112, 256214, 240773, 237823, 539560, 387784, 420038, 379001, 505083, 119521, 504625, 322027, 586819, 467181, 449317, 284047, 226350, 21769, 433459, 322186, 57015, 377311, 460330, 359948, 489624, 516411, 434644, 331887, 51408, 167567, 167730, 322691, 569751, 419535, 489943, 39976, 537675, 226378, 65092, 11114, 241151, 144470, 185622, 121027, 177803, 340844, 227860, 456037, 240768, 348388, 286923, 363014, 275817, 201046, 271665, 278080, 322163, 167760, 190656, 6498, 421445, 265296, 332643, 383126, 298538, 253626, 273918, 383122, 341472, 392777, 312985, 191595, 319247, 395450, 246016, 441630, 444856, 466886, 396601, 380740, 18913, 581167, 90607, 189412, 419904, 489944, 70473, 49633, 511854, 329816, 533784, 406105, 372373, 336253, 291298, 214602, 336305, 321425, 520633, 321054, 190672, 452546, 573115, 336866, 246755, 525418, 391710, 280535, 376535, 450529, 119881, 441986, 384743, 246007, 404225, 81453, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I realize that what I'm about to write is anecdotal, and far from a scientific survey.<br/><br/>But, in the aftermath of #MeToo, I have asked all of my close friends and family members if they have ever experienced a situation they would classify as being sexual harassment, as opposed to non-sexual bullying (which I asked about as well). Obviously, I indicated that it was perfectly okay not to respond--and that I hoped the question wasn't bullying. Pretty much everyone was eager to talk, though--often at considerable length.<br/><br/>Among those who identify as female, whether straight identified or not, every single individual reported at least one incident. Many reported multiple incidents.<br/><br/>Among those who identify as male, about a quarter reported such an incident. The majority of those who identified as gay or bisexual male reported such an incident, and often multiple ones.<br/><br/>It's interesting that many more who identified as male reported bullying incidents that they did not think had some sexual component. Those identifying as female noted bullying incidents, too, but much more often with they perceived as a sexual component. (Everyone reported at least one bullying incident.)<br/><br/>Of course, this is only my sample. But I suspect it wouldn't be different from those of most other people. This crap is absolutely pervasive.<br/><br/>How did we learn to treat each other so badly?	591,903	[ 591927, 591840, 591914, 591878 ]	173	[ 170593, 3685, 119977, 537481, 585750, 179951, 432047, 254303, 344895, 546376, 47613, 462030, 146385, 307050, 392625, 353895, 30628, 490650, 197137, 178839, 41432, 177877, 66784, 264434, 394349, 3735, 563205, 291112, 198813, 539575, 737, 5879, 570619, 71099, 110657, 160132, 515362, 93604, 185476, 267466, 174463, 369064, 279145, 514840, 30917, 191171, 537769, 82256, 554921, 352964, 534991, 240314, 178711, 297348, 482625, 322044, 139005, 433712, 548563, 248035, 402621, 123933, 53506, 364570, 509629, 306065, 322393, 193182, 456003, 3751, 269498, 254060, 139208, 173997, 392823, 213815, 298591, 387703, 397076, 369068, 87236, 221367, 248127, 480966, 207422, 323144, 585634, 120203, 318721, 132712, 577296, 525271, 98873, 56752, 589629, 551462, 561049, 370063, 426151, 410316, 53449, 428599, 216577, 322045, 508573, 160226, 411061, 244522, 560017, 545181, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	I can agree with you <PERSON>--as far as it goes.<br/><br/>The big question, though, is how we got to this point; how we developed such a naive, uninformed population that Russian disinformation was disseminated because it MIGHT influence some of that population. Surely, if the Russians had determined that we had responsible, educated, informed people living here, they would have spent more of their money and time on some other ways of influencing the election, such as you allude to.<br/><br/>But apparently, they (an others) recognize that in the US you can fool too many of the people too much of the time.<br/><br/>I don't disagree with you that this phenomenon is on us--it's our own fault, for being lazy, unmotivated, gullible, uniformed, for not being smart enough to realize there were no child pornography rings being run out of pizza parlors and the like. I suspect, though, we would diverge on what the solutions to such stupidity are.	591,904	null	0	[ 443513, 5740, 11122, 529206, 218293, 291622, 96890, 190719, 21769, 275750, 447830, 533746, 359948, 168748, 291617, 355308, 250692, 562485, 417951, 261377, 237599, 361091, 403899, 102173, 106360, 107847, 546306, 456568, 239193, 29404, 242392, 338757, 377165, 322086, 530576, 347410, 39896, 130248, 278009, 28081, 199092, 248577, 211529, 200613, 546622, 561052, 96902, 510004, 347687, 524260, 572517, 6114, 363516, 540771, 7531, 184201, 283513, 583857, 228206, 377591, 6128, 399251, 455638, 220859, 353297, 551500, 122716, 6172, 93056, 251032, 451267, 149621, 504527, 291619, 130094, 144644, 440482, 506964, 153743, 188458, 59032, 146140, 243003, 379369, 381431, 162196, 167926, 510032, 184114, 35056, 473569, 243007, 136175, 146440, 283295, 512015, 586934, 61941, 367895, 41886, 39822, 377232, 329267, 140920, 80784, 493431, 98923, 96763, 311566, 305902, 211126, 244817, 468135, 586938, 381732, 352904, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	<PERSON>, as <PERSON> intuits, does know how to "put on a show".<br/><br/>His behavior as President is undoubtedly going to be long on the bread and circuses, and short on the vegetables and substance.<br/><br/>Of course, that is exactly what the American public likes, apparently, so it's unlikely that it'll will notice the men behind the curtain feverishly pulling levers to transmit even more wealth and privilege into the pockets of the already wealthy and privileged. The ones who do notice, who want to pull back the curtain? Doomsayers, liberal apologists, nattering nabobs of negativism. As long as the scantily clad dancers are paraded about at regular intervals, and shiny objects and blameworthy others are dangled in front of it, the American public will for the most part remain rooted and transfixed in its seat.<br/><br/>It's doubtful the nuclear missile launches would even be noticed until they occurred.<br/><br/>This is what happens when you destroy civics classes in middle school, and teach kids from textbooks that conflate creationism and evolution as theories of biodiversity.<br/><br/>And we can spiral down knowing we did this to ourselves, that we only have ourselves to blame. Except, of course, we're not that insightful.	591,905	null	25	[ 554875, 178408, 444911, 500449, 583986, 482293, 257722, 328318, 524206, 81695, 384042, 380306, 329813, 150379, 126952, 473860, 39628, 372152, 584113, 332865, 458727, 556948, 109859, 78005, 192410, 81613, 153060, 278019, 537471, 18455, 149784, 469595, 107900, 468702, 473625, 364563, 165309, 11352, 286116, 506934, 69699, 538321, 93212, 318442, 459178, 312212, 584162, 539734, 124701, 329123, 242212, 164291, 10075, 259056, 386535, 225288, 361108, 119991, 573777, 313054, 550153, 81656, 553693, 234392, 432210, 40094, 579269, 212809, 257306, 405788, 167151, 293947, 436277, 54335, 470955, 93056, 451635, 503567, 7222, 19276, 48465, 7333, 168075, 459572, 182994, 64942, 198655, 482918, 354879, 548476, 21553, 86181, 350284, 368743, 375256, 55035, 574877, 529140, 590748, 84949, 403958, 273281, 388707, 327683, 232393, 318740, 121882, 341025, 29306, 474102, 157066, 51831, 380735, 575186, 283513, 175972, 451012, 400231, 277041, 586387, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	Yes, we should bring back the draft.<br/><br/>But not necessarily for military service. The option of public service--<PERSON>' "moral equivalent of war"--should be on a equal footing with serving militarily. The possibility to work alongside people from many different walks of life--doing tutoring, helping the infirm, working in our national parks and monuments, even doing infrastructure work (a la Habitat for Humanity) would go a long way towards breaking down the bubbles to many people live in and fostering a sense of "we're all in this together", without the possibility of getting suddenly killed.<br/><br/>"National service" is not an idea whose time has come--it's an idea that was always timely. It just doesn't have to be military, and, in most cases, shouldn't be. And it should be paid, of course, through a much fairer tax levy (none of this unpaid internship slavery garbage).	591,906	[ 591861, 591904 ]	146	[ 5322, 26113, 474000, 534258, 117889, 444485, 169488, 98712, 81144, 200352, 320172, 553101, 92723, 124667, 151479, 127045, 207473, 374948, 549324, 356576, 449072, 194975, 201145, 149809, 37858, 136658, 338774, 140334, 336627, 26224, 441653, 71831, 397676, 82017, 500367, 333122, 473927, 395079, 451398, 267143, 565914, 252210, 217433, 256293, 72012, 9112, 83640, 334003, 255620, 578326, 551430, 85862, 172758, 424852, 83539, 521336, 501367, 574669, 319557, 316742, 397331, 182501, 247972, 99325, 85171, 81944, 259747, 202675, 55818, 448993, 33648, 419793, 191218, 48702, 21674, 586431, 541658, 18015, 337457, 457036, 43335, 353511, 492380, 499889, 156639, 262462, 560577, 111601, 294194, 38151, 363153, 155689, 35459, 169295, 333904, 373828, 267662, 84114, 511180, 272626, 190634, 238241, 294877, 468682, 159338, 203785, 383957, 259660, 346454, 47098, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	One hopes that the utter chaos that the repeal of the ACA will bring--and the lives that will be compromised and lost in the aftermath of the repeal--will bring a mighty floodtide of activism into the next Congressional and Presidential elections and the replacement of these Calvinist/Social Darwinist politicians with those who might care enough to drive home single payer/Medicare for all, or at least a public option.<br/><br/>One hopes.<br/><br/>(Reminder--hope is a muscle.)	591,907	[ 591898 ]	155	[ 193617, 524123, 352232, 590922, 557380, 269401, 307652, 269378, 103990, 366016, 435761, 256384, 591341, 409708, 3301, 205000, 478647, 214831, 349123, 269357, 448531, 249753, 203251, 29131, 285033, 404556, 234186, 453231, 333098, 57607, 217271, 212089, 269356, 579892, 371336, 379407, 388047, 474701, 113317, 448521, 259102, 375039, 212105, 207453, 166348, 273924, 73731, 391374, 166423, 552758, 392218, 420972, 27425, 280351, 439363, 181025, 321526, 259119, 192770, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	But . . .<br/><br/>When are we, and the media, going to stop letting the <PERSON> and <PERSON> of the world get away with this?<br/><br/>When are we going to stop treating them like reasonable people with reasonable points of view, rather than the spinmeister out-and-out liars they are?<br/><br/>When are we going to give up this norm of reasonable discourse when confronted with these lies, and stop treating these untruths like just another point of view? Even the most adversarial interviewers seem to start from the assumption--or are told to start from the assumption--that sitting across from them is a person who will engage them in discourse, who will actually consider their question for answer, when this is obviously not the case. When is an interviewer or an anchor going to bluntly say "<PERSON>, you are lying right now?" Or "<PERSON>, you pointedly did not address my last question. I ask you again . . ."<br/><br/>Is there too much of a worry that the ratings will take a hit if that happens? That is will be perceived as rude? Isn't what the <PERSON> of the world do WORSE than rudeness?	591,908	[ 591838, 591954, 591897 ]	234	[ 150708, 408301, 556863, 106673, 68793, 273667, 554992, 494763, 400153, 560921, 458904, 499167, 451304, 81605, 89327, 498750, 505704, 81778, 54822, 419572, 147817, 321709, 583800, 552215, 194856, 285581, 570382, 341445, 257487, 501531, 452067, 185605, 579431, 176662, 533814, 470955, 401454, 196170, 105581, 462356, 232969, 6301, 98718, 473181, 110442, 158057, 375880, 322463, 493040, 464400, 473794, 71974, 81521, 584126, 450516, 152052, 352711, 285135, 547421, 106127, 447091, 189855, 142017, 220835, 333898, 432292, 121047, 220863, 481600, 514546, 142499, 504844, 174437, 570884, 438171, 174425, 175896, 217604, 123880, 305307, 190672, 218147, 449396, 130357, 407436, 130094, 323018, 403074, 285147, 266917, 578146, 148051, 361020, 160500, 211291, 71907, 244007, 220840, 553688, 451611, 388670, 149558, 363417, 574523, 98946, 136211, 507508, 148174, 148083, 151596, 214870, 272112, 573881, 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nyt_comments_9848255.0	The country is quite polarized--on a number of dimensions. Urban vs. rural. Working class vs. college educated "brainjob" holders. Religious vs. not. <br/><br/>One of the dimensions is not, however, Republican vs. Democrat--not in the traditional sense, anyway. As <PERSON> and his quoted note, there may well be a fundamental redefinition ongoing as to who supports which party.<br/><br/>It's tempting to think of things as populist vs. elite, but those categories have the habit of being rather fluid. Knowledge workers who might have considered themselves elite are about to be disrupted by automation and robots as well--it's already happening in design, architecture, law. It's hard to feel elite when you're a J.D. degree holder doing cold call selling or barista-ing.<br/><br/>Eventually, the party--existent or emerging--that addresses the fundamental shift in our economic lives, the changing nature of work as an identity as well as material living provider, will have a YUGE constituency. As others have noted, except for the MOST elite, almost all of us will have some form of working life. Those who address what is to be done when there is much less work to be done by people, and even most brain workers lose their premium (whether that involves shorter workweeks, guaranteed income, bigger safety nets/"entitlements") will garner many votes.<br/><br/>The question is, will such a movement emerge with enough energy before "the house divides", or climate change makes all these issues moot.	591,909	null	93	[ 159772, 169045, 221311, 373993, 581359, 386476, 78447, 302325, 124649, 386475, 574315, 491649, 167698, 384355, 300261, 473064, 186441, 383936, 449906, 377159, 379500, 583056, 177491, 563920, 4488, 569028, 169084, 26501, 39564, 72019, 235633, 290116, 429889, 446676, 188343, 570823, 341459, 478939, 364913, 33648, 478833, 505423, 246042, 112052, 433162, 251099, 2592, 293682, 335586, 413042, 259543, 101682, 257996, 246700, 2032, 300451, 6428, 433112, 167714, 215731, 146494, 372097, 85791, 105702, 376779, 364719, 540851, 473845, 557475, 372952, 326961, 200301, 54730, 429976, 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nyt_comments_984363.0

<PERSON>’ crocodile tears are a sham. He talks of a need for racial justice. But he demands an honorable platform for the racism of the odious <PERSON>. I must assume it’s his white privilege that blinds him to the inconsistency and incompatibility of the two. When people like him and other institutions repeatedly insist on both lines, this is what we know to be true: racial justice takes a back seat to white supremacy posturing. To object to the posturing is no more inappropriate than <PERSON> driving the money changers from the temple.

591,810

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Nice words demonstrating the emptiness of the proposition. Reduce national wealth by tariffs and the middle class will be richer. Hunh? Ridiculous. Try this instead: free trade, retraining that works, and higher taxes on the 1% and businesses to improve our general social security including health and education. This will also cut against income inequality. Time to drive the economic royalists from the temple of our democracy.

591,811

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15

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nyt_comments_984363.0

I supported the goals of the war in Vietnam and was in the military, tho not in Vietnam. I am also very critical of the times’ ongoing shame campaign against the war. That said, this article is rather too rosy. I concede the Vietnam war was largely a civil war. So was Korea. We had good reasons in both cases to choose sides. That we succeeded in one and not the other should give us pause, but only hindsight is 20/20.

591,812

[ 591757 ]

175

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Not bad for you. But those attributes of America you mention first can be hard to find in black communities— clean water, decent cops and fair elections where black votes are allowed and counted. Funny thing though <PERSON> you never mention that, which vitiates the rest of what you say. You do however lie about reverse discrimination and demand an honorable platform for the racism of the odious <PERSON>. Which is why you’re a <PERSON> enabler.

591,813

null

39

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nyt_comments_984363.0

When too many southern whites describe slavery and treason as their heritage, we have ongoing proof that reconstruction failed as a denazification program. And mores the pity. <PERSON> would be ashamed and contemptuous of today’s Republican Party that disgraces and debases <PERSON> and the black republicans (who of course included both African Americans and whites). Only where white privilege continues to strangle could it be possible that the south’s many monuments to slavery and treason are not seen for what they are: unconstitutional badges of slavery outlawed by the national supremacy amendments.

591,814

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252

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nyt_comments_984363.0

<PERSON> your big problem is failure to reckon with sexism. Sexism is the real reason why political wives who work for their husbands never got paid. Now you can scream nepotism all you want. But there is a tension here that you boneheadly fail to grapple with. So this piece made you feel good? But in the #me too era it’s insufficiently thoughtful. I give marks to the mayor for thinking about the issue.

591,815

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79

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nyt_comments_984363.0

The last part about the value of education is good and true. The first part is probably wrong. <PERSON> either free trade is good or bad. If it’s good then by not trading freely China hurts itself by raising costs for the Chinese and using inferior products. If that is so, then why would we be so dumb as to follow suit? Now one may answer it isn’t all good or all bad, it’s mixed. But that’s a dodge unless you can prove it and I don’t think it can be. A more likely culprit for us is failure to upgrade our skills to focus on higher profit and higher tech goods. This failure on our part can be remedied by better education at all age levels, especially in sectors where we don’t compete well. And this is where inequality porn comes in— appropriate taxes will raise revenues needed for the human and plant and infrastructure retooling we need. Beggar thy neighbor is a losing proposition. Winning by superior training and product is a much better special sauce. But we can’t beat trump Tom until you stop drinking the <PERSON> defeatist lemonade.

591,816

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64

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nyt_comments_984363.0

<PERSON> was right that democrats need candidates who can win in their locales. <PERSON>, <PERSON>, <PERSON> or <PERSON> are unlikely to win elections in Manhattan. But they’re doing fine in Pennsylvania, Alabama, Montana and West Virginia. And we need all of them, just as we also need Manhattan. A big tent that stands for basic decency is a winning ticket. And the Democratic candidate is certainly preferable generically to the Republican. I think that’s the message <PERSON> should have delivered, on one of the few days he isn’t denouncing black people.

591,817

null

116

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Wrong on America the beautiful: o beautiful for pilgrims’ feet whose stern impassioned plea a thoroughfare for freedom beat across the wilderness.... America America God mend thy every flaw, confirm thy goals with self control, thy liberty in law. That’s merely geographical? Hogwash. And one other thing, too bad Israel gets weary about hearing about the racist part of the star spangled banner. Those of us who are black do not.

591,818

[ 591757 ]

27

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nyt_comments_984363.0

This is not your best piece. <PERSON> doesn’t like the press. So what? He’s entitled to his opinion. And the press can and should hit back. Your advice that they pretend to be contrite is wrongheaded. By the way, you really mean the not pro trump press. Failure to contest the field would leave it to <PERSON>, <PERSON>, and <PERSON>. That would be a big mistake. Fight fire with fire, remembering their fire is only heat. Ours is heat and light.

591,819

[ 591757, 591763 ]

31

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nyt_comments_984363.0

<PERSON> your critique is an amusing mixture of the ultramontanist and <PERSON>. The pope is insufficiently old guard hierarchical for you and insufficiently hawkish. Again you find yourself twisted like a pretzel as you try to square your preference for more papal authority with your desire to submit to Roman authority at a time when that authority wants you to do things you don’t like. How else to explain your truly ridiculous preference for <PERSON> as pope? Even he knew he wasn’t up to the job, being a former Nazi and all.

591,820

[ 591757 ]

144

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nyt_comments_984363.0

This article is what I expect from too many white people. It covers a disgrace. Therefore the involvement of blacks is highlighted and insisted upon. White people rarely find occasion to mention blacks in descriptions of triumphs. And of course the truth here is that the chain of command was white, period. But the author manages to try to shame blacks too. Disgusting business as usual

591,821

null

202

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nyt_comments_984363.0

There are things here I don’t quite agree with. But there is one terrific thing about it: she quotes a black American intellectual as an example everyone should look up to . He isn’t listed as usual as third in a list preceded by whites. He isn’t an athlete or entertainment figure. We need so much more of that from white people. And it puts to shame <PERSON> and <PERSON> and <PERSON> who have proven themselves incapable of this simple decency.

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null

202

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Good piece. But the current Israeli government’s racist disrespect to President <PERSON> and its foolish disregard of Democrats will and should present ongoing difficulties for Israel’s relationship with the United States. The author may be a Republican and conservative but half the USA is not. The author should be working to repair the obvious dangers in the damage done by the Israeli government in this regard. Many of us are watching closely.

591,823

[ 591757 ]

131

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nyt_comments_984363.0

The author suggests whites need to stop being prejudiced. Indeed they do. In the very long meantime however I suggest we black men and boys continue to do the best we can on all fronts. I posit that in fact we do better than the odds against us would appear to allow. I believe that freed from those restraints we will do better yet. But just remember it takes longer to make bricks without straw. And great talent. And all in the face of the racism of the odious <PERSON>, and his white columnist supporters at the NYT who want him to have an honorable platform from which to spout that trash. Takes us full circle, doesn’t it: whites need to stop being prejudiced.

591,824

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202

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nyt_comments_984363.0

<PERSON> your alleged confusion is easily explained. The eras you hark back to were all eras of white supremacy, just as every person you mention was white. Now that white supremacy is not taken for granted, now that black people have thoughts and names that can be cited and quoted— tho you do not—it must indeed be disconcerting and confusing for you. For others of us, it’s heady and refreshing: as <PERSON> or <PERSON> or <PERSON> would have told you, if only you read them. Your education, as for most white Americans is woefully inadequate and incomplete.

591,825

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202

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nyt_comments_984363.0

This is a long overdue start that should be closely studied by the white NYT columnists who constantly tout for the racism of the odious <PERSON>, who didn’t get mentioned in the article. This kind of discussion does indeed belong in college classes, and would not be red meet racism at kkk style conservative talk forums. My very pointed observation would be that whites like <PERSON> and <PERSON>, and blacks like the fatuous <PERSON>, many of whom claim to be or are in fact conservatives show very little of the common decency and respect for others that old fashioned good manners and education are supposed to.

591,826

null

10

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nyt_comments_984363.0

A sound theoretical discussion of alternative views about the war, then soured by an unsound screed echoing the times McCarthyite witch hunt against what this author rightly describes as a foreign policy tradition running from <PERSON> onward. The American civil war analogy is particularly unsound. Just as a counter thought: the French occupation of Mexico was defeated by the fighting of the Mexican people, armed in part by the United States, and then with the confederates beat, by 50000 union troops placed on the Mexican border to discourage any attempt by France to send reenforcements in further violation of the <PERSON> doctrine ( which no longer needed the British navy to assert itself). This was a sound move by the United States and is of a piece with trying to help the south Vietnamese

591,827

[ 591757 ]

175

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nyt_comments_984363.0

You rode along a bit then fell off the wagon <PERSON>. Checking privilege that promotes racism and inequality is not a bad thing as you suggest; it is a good and necessary thing. And that fact was central to founders older than the ones you cite: the pilgrims and puritans who knew that undue privilege is a sin, and like all sins must be confronted and rooted out. That is the foundation of the American creed as expressed in America the beautiful: America, god mend they every flaw.... it is also central in the battle hymn of the republic which exhorts: we are trampling out the vengeance where the grapes of wrath are stored, as <PERSON> died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.... it was also central in <PERSON>’s demand that we drive the economic royalists from the temple of our democracy. So please stop distorting American Exceptionalism, which is singular exactly in identifying the privileges of sin and excoriating them.

591,828

null

39

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Typos removed I hope: You agnostic, <PERSON>? <PERSON>. You're a full throated Roman Catholic Republican. And also prone to errors. Leave aside your snide and mistaken attacks on liberals, Protestants and <PERSON>. Let's take your new buddy <PERSON>. It wasn't <PERSON> that destroyed <PERSON>. it was <PERSON> who made crystal clear the lack of intellectual underpinnings for anything <PERSON> had to say. So <PERSON> played <PERSON> to <PERSON>'s Vatican, to put things in terms you could look up. The other funny thing is that <PERSON> stayed in the gop, as <PERSON> remained Roman Catholic, even after <PERSON> became Pope, to mix metaphors. In my view you, <PERSON>, <PERSON> and <PERSON> got it wrong.

591,829

[ 591757 ]

144

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nyt_comments_984363.0

This is a disturbing piece because it is a dog whistle for racism. <PERSON> insinuates that the concerns of minority voters should be ignored. This is his worst piece and a great disappointment. The very same information allows for a broad coalition of interests where poor blacks and poor whites can unite in their common interest. But <PERSON> eschews that observation in favor of suggesting <PERSON> style that dems should get back in the business of race baiting. For shame.

591,830

null

47

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456184, 6311 ]

nyt_comments_984363.0

There are very few tv shows with an overtly political bent. Whites control television but now they need a show to make them feel good about offensive racism of the <PERSON> variety. It would be disconcerting if it weren’t both risible and not unexpected. Come to think of it, it’s still disconcerting. With <PERSON> on tv and god forbid the odious <PERSON> in the classroom, we’ll have quite a <PERSON> display of confederate confetti.

591,831

null

234

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nyt_comments_984363.0

We must begin with rejecting the idea that we should debate whether Jews should be exterminated, or whether blacks are really human. The failure of the times among others to insist on a moral framework for Liberalism, in its larger sense, leads to rigged outcomes. We know that you need antitrust laws to ensure free markets, not rigged markets. We know we need voting rights laws to ensure free elections not rigged elections. We also need rules to ensure free speech or we get rigged speech where the racists and tyrants get to set the terms of debate.

591,832

null

93

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Again a nyt writer talks about the importance of being wrongly offered a place of honor when it's not deserved. Right on! And yet so many of this ilk continue bogusly to insist that the odious <PERSON> should be offered an honorable platform for his racist theories. The only cover for the inconsistency is bad faith born of white racism. And then you get <PERSON>.

591,833

null

134

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nyt_comments_984363.0

<PERSON>'s unbalanced reasoning amusingly proves the lie at the heart of the article. The <PERSON>/<PERSON> approach to politics at home and abroad has brought disgrace to both the us and Israel. It has also done nothing to solve or resolve middle eastern problems. President <PERSON> correctly strove to shore up American interests, by cultivating a balance among unpalatable regimes without more futile bush wars. It is past time to intelligently stand up for American interests and reject being tied to the agendas of bigots, whether Arab or Israeli.

591,834

[ 591757 ]

131

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nyt_comments_984363.0

I supported the war. as in Korea, we had limited aims, in this case the freedom of south Viet nam and preventing the falling dominoes. lbj limited the latter but failed in the former. this author sets out how the latter could've been obtained. I thank him for that. but the price was too high, just as in Korea <PERSON>'s proposed price for beating China head on was too high. you do what you reasonably can, but don't become unreasonable. it is to lbj 's credit that he stood by that proposition even when it cost him his political life.

591,835

[ 591757, 591793 ]

175

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Point of view is essential in journalism as in everything else. It's pointless to argue otherwise since refusing to admit to a point of view is both self delusional AND adopting a point of view. investigators must start with a point of view about what the law is, and they look to see if the found conduct conforms to it. Without standards there can be no testing. Hence that wonderful old saying that exceptions prove the rule (prove in this case retaining it's old sense as test, as in assayer's proof).

591,836

null

153

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Obviously you're no lawyer. You're argument is not lawyerly. What the court did was look to motivation in expressed intent. That's um normal. What's abnormal <PERSON> is your insistence that the courts overlook their usual rules in <PERSON> deference. Now the now wholly political Supreme Court may do that, adding their curtesy to <PERSON>'s bow to the Muslim Saudi royals, but the rest of us will continue to snort -- at him and at you (oh and <PERSON> too).

591,837

[ 591757 ]

231

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Membership is still not restricted to blacks. To say otherwise is fake news of exactly the sort racists use. As for the article, i hope that in time the author will learn that deep rooted perennials are essential because the annuals while flashy come and go-- think sncc.... the legacy of <PERSON>, <PERSON>, <PERSON>, <PERSON> and <PERSON> is not so easily dismissed, NAACP all. They bloodied the heads of Jim Crow and white citizens councils. Now we need more like them, and in the meanwhile the work of the NAACP will continue to be done by everyday folks whose everyday fight for justice deserves recognition and praise.

591,838

[ 591788 ]

39

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nyt_comments_984363.0

Right roger? White racism is best beaten by sympathy for it? I don't think so. Understand it, yes. Beat it, yes. Coddle it? No. I am regularly amazed to read here that we must give space for bigots. Of course it's generally whites insisting on that because their ox isn't being gored. I find when it is, the same people become very thin skinned indeed. The big joke playing now is that twice in 16 years the republic has installed the vote loser as president. But white conservatives are satisfied, indeed pleased. So much for majority rule.

591,839

null

202

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576625, 473018, 185582, 200002, 103051, 109796 ]

nyt_comments_984363.0

Of course <PERSON> is right. What surprises me is the lack of discussion about the dangers of unmooring Germany from us leadership. 200 years of history suggest an unmoored Germany becomes a threat to continental and intercontinental security-- meaning ours too. Just listen to <PERSON>'s chief opponent on <PERSON>; we've heard that German snarl before. <PERSON> is a fool to toy with letting that genie out of the bottle again.

591,840

[ 591757 ]

5

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305178 ]

nyt_comments_9848255.0

Nature makes mistakes. Happens all the time. Generally, though, in nature, the mistake does not have much of a chance to perpetuate itself; it pretty quickly does something stupid, because it is not capable of seeing that it's stupid, and is eaten. The problem with human society from this standpoint is that we've engineered a system in which mistakes can get away with stupid behavior for a long time, and thereby perpetuate themselves. Eventually, there are a lot more mistakes out there than nature would have ever allowed, and they have a considerable impact. The mark of a human mistake, generally, is that it doesn't know what it doesn't know, and it acts with the assured certainty of thinking it knows. Such people are notoriously hard to reason with or persuade as they don't even start from the same set of assumptions a more logical mind would, or, often, even a basic grounding in reality. So don't assume having some actual brains around would make any difference here--the mistakes the "brains" would be trying to convince would respond to a reasoned policy argument with "and we've had spaghetti three times this month".

591,841

[ 591861, 591926 ]

114

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

The problem, actually, may be that "a point by point refutation of illiberal thinking is a far more powerful way to move the progressive agenda forward" is a proposition not supported well by the most relevant sociological and psychological research. This is not limited to progressive agenda, but seems to encompass all. Apparently, mere exposure to viewpoints is not all that effective, and a viewpoint's reasonableness often has little effect on how well it is accepted. People seem to latch onto those premises that support their already held idiosyncratic worldviews, and reject much of the rest, no matter how logically argued. In fact, considerable evidence exits that exposing people to well-argued opposite viewpoints caused many to double down on their original beliefs, almost as if these inoculate them against change. The literature on this is too extensive to get into detail about here, though a quick perusal of Googledocs will turn up much. This is not to say I disagree with the idea of logically arguing a point of view. But it does seem as if logical argument is not as effective as a persuasion method as many would hope.

591,842

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93

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I know many here have said a version of this, but, yes, I agree that <PERSON> voters--at least the more working class, economically threatened ones, as there are significant numbers of single issue (abortion, gun rights, rich oligarch) voters who vote R no matter what--need to be understood, empathized with, not talked down to. And, yes, Democrats have done a bad job of engaging such voters-- undereducated, underserved, underresourced people who might well be a natural constituency. But these voters should be held responsible, for not knowing the difference between fake news sites and real ones, for reacting childishly in their anger and worry by voting for someone obviously unfit for the office, for being, in many cases, purposely low information and low reflection. To be a citizen in a democracy comes with certain requirements--to pay attention to and be aware of the ongoing issues, to know candidates' stances on these, to engage in debate and parsing, even if only in your own head. Far, far too many people have abandoned these, becoming insular in their bubbles, whatever the bubbles are (including the substantial minority so insular they didn't bother going to vote at all--no excuse for that). A democracy cannot survive when huge numbers of people check out on it. One doesn't have to be "all in" on politics. But one at least has to have some discriminatory power. Otherwise, even civil, rational, non-condescending discussion is wasted.

591,843

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189

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

"Mr. <PERSON> gives outright, unapologetic voice to racism, sexism, contempt for “losers” and so on — feelings that have always been an important source of conservative support, but have long been things you weren’t supposed to talk about openly." It's a measure of the hypocritical self-serving pablum we had become so used to hearing from politicians that, to so many of the less informed, <PERSON>'s bluster sounded like a breath of fresh air. Apparently, to that cohort, it sounded truthful and resonant that which was merely unrestrained and unfettered. (And, those pronouncements about losers and Mexicans and urban African Americans and nasty women merely confirmed long held suspicions.) As has been mentioned here, though, the majority doesn't swing that way; <PERSON>, and Republicans in general, have had to garner support from swaths of fringe-y "deplorables" in order to create enough of a cohort to win elections. The question now is, how do you convince those who voted for <PERSON> for more prosaic reasons--like just because there was an "R" next to his name on the ballot--that the company they're keeping is not that which they'd really rather keep?

591,844

null

100

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I think that ridicule is often the way to go--laughter is the crack that allows <PERSON> light to get in. I just think more of it should be aimed at targets other than <PERSON>, particularly Congressional ones. They have gotten us into this mess as much (or more) as <PERSON> has. Targeting some of the big donors for ridicule, such as <PERSON> or the <PERSON>, wouldn't hurt either. I've been working on a game that involves the process by which the government really works--"buy the Representative a vacation in Costa Rica, get a vote for your deregulation bill!" type of stuff. The object is to become unchallengeable in your current office and then be able to run for higher office--or, become a highly paid lobbyist/oligarch if that's your bent (ah, choices--do you have more influence within the chamber or outside of it?). Whoever winds up with the most votes/politicians under control wins--not always an actual officeholder, of course. (Still a number of details to be worked out. Wondering how to turn this into an app.) But yes, pin the tail on the <PERSON>, whack the lyin' <PERSON>, and all the other things one can imagine should be in play. Although I wish we had <PERSON> back--that man knew how to make the establishment foolishly overreact, which is what you ultimately want (remember when he said he'd make the Pentagon levitate, and when he threw money at the traders on the stock exchange floor?).

591,845

null

130

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Mr. <PERSON>'s comments about politicians of both sides being equally despicable is one of the worst kinds of false equivalence we've been enduring. Yes, politicians in general are self-serving and easy to corrupt. But it's hard to argue that the Republicans have been far more self-serving and in general easier to corrupt. And they also have the nasty tendency to deny reality to much greater extents than Democrats--i.e., climate change, trickle down economics. It's a good impulse to not trust politicians in general. But it's a better impulse to try to not let most Republicans within sniffing distance of a legislative or executive chamber.

591,846

[ 591847, 591968, 591848, 591918 ]

174

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Yes, <PERSON>, you are accurate that <PERSON> is, in the end, a weather vane pointing to whichever way the wind is blowing that minute, and swinging in another direction the next. Most of us here knew that he wasn't really a Republican in the usual sense, but co-opted that party because it was easy to do (mostly because traditional Republican issue positions don't hang together very well to begin with, based on inchoate anger and hypocrisy as they are). But even so, and even given our history of mediocre chief executives, the bar you are setting by trying to argue that his flightiness and incompetence are less dangerous than more willful malevolence is so low that it is practically underground. Why should anyone be any less angry that a dangerous precedent is being set in which "truthiness" is deemed factual, reality is whatever anyone says it is, and muddles are declared triumphs? Moreover, even if <PERSON> will tend more towards oligarch than overlord, some of the people lurking behind him are just waiting for a chance to say "achtung", baby. It IS hard to maintain a high level of outrage day after day. But I am sure as spit gonna try. It may be the only thing standing between us and disaster, whether engendered through malice or stupidity.

591,847

null

100

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I hate to write this, and I certainly don't wish for it, but I suspect these incidents will go on and on, with no movement on any legislation mandating greater regulation of guns, until someone makes an automatic weapons assault on the Supreme Court or the Capitol. And even then there might not be movement; after all, gunning down Congresspeople in supermarkets and at ball fields hasn't done much to move the needle. And even then,

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157

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

"Taxes are the price I pay for the benefits of civilization." --Oliver Wendell <PERSON>'s amazing that among economically developed nations only in the United States do we want a high level of services but eschew taxing ourselves to pay for it. Nations in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, et. al., have problems of their own--but this is not one of them. Of course, these nations also don't allow their elections and officeholders to be beholden to lobbyists and oligarchs, either. (Publicly funded elections, anyone?)

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null

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Absolutely. The single most impactful reform we can make in our nation? Public funding of elections. Severe limits on private contribution to campaigns and politicians. No other developed nation allows its elections and politicians to be so compromised by oligarchical contributions, or allows a one- dollar-one-vote system. If we stopped this and publicly funded all elections, we could set limits on campaign time, types of ads, bring back some form of the Fairness Doctrine . . .and maybe, just maybe, officeholders would start representing the interests of the larger majority of voters instead of those of the current tiny number of rich campaign contributors.

591,850

[ 591893, 591871, 591941, 591904, 591846 ]

166

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

There are a number of commenters here who are putting forward the proposition that free speech stops at the corporate door. That makes me profoundly nervous; corporations and employers have far too much power already. I'm not comfortable thinking that one can be disciplined or fired for making statements not connected with the specificities of their job or workplace, but apparently our politics have moved to a place where this is acceptable to quite a large section of the population. I remind people that while the First Amendment has limitations--one should not shout "fire" in a non-burning building, to cite one famous Supreme Court case--we should all be somewhat questioning of just what these limitations are. And I would suggest that if one cannot express a non-work related opinion without workplace retaliation then the right of free speech there is essentially meaningless. Do we want to be in that place?

591,851

null

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

As has been mentioned, there are, and have been, many other on-line communities. Many of these are moderated, or have other mechanisms for keeping out, or at least minimizing, the quack-cure advertising, trolling, or identity hiding that too often characterizes Facebook. The sad thing is that many of these communities have experienced a considerable drop off in activity and potential connection since the advent of Facebook, primarily because Facebook is just easier to enter. But that ease of entry has both advantages and disadvantages, as many are now discovering. I agree that a reasonable strategy might be to meet initially on Facebook, but save the serious linking and conversation for a more specific, and better controlled, on-line portal, even if needs to be created from scratch.

591,852

[ 591927, 591878 ]

239

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

As my ultrarunning wife constantly points out, this is a man who lied about his best marathon time. Not clipped a few seconds off, not rounded down--but flat out lied, not running a time, in any and all records that can be consulted, anywhere near what he claimed. In her mind, this disqualified him from any consideration as a thoughtful legislator, or even one who deserved to be voted or appointed in to any office. I'm not a runner, but I see nothing wrong with that sentiment.

591,853

[ 591968 ]

24

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I enjoy a discussion of political philosophy as much as the next nerd. But this one seems to be mostly an exercise in verbal gymnastics, attempting to engage in a serious analysis abstract issues that, while somewhat interesting in their own right, have little relation to the actual realpolitik that is occurring day to day. And, I am highly suspicious of any analysis about the development of capitalism that doesn't even mention the rise of Calvinist ideas in Europe and their transplantation to America as a leading ethos of many of the original settlers here. Calvinist ideas of the Elect have a LOT to do with how our economy developed, and how a Social Darwinist mentality also developed in which the problem of the poor was located within the poor themselves, as a result of a lack of effort or brains or worthiness, rather than as a result of systems designed to reward certain practices and denigrate others.

591,854

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205

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Agreed, <PERSON>, that this is about what kind of nation we want to be. However, my cynical old brain is naggingly telling me that the United States of America never has been the nation that was advertised in the brochure, never was the nation the high-sounding language of the Constitution implied. There are many, MANY who, in fact, have no interest in being a nation of laws, who would quite gladly support a suspension of elections in 2018 or 2020, who would quite happily go along with the jailing or even shooting of the protesters who've promised to hit the streets in the event of <PERSON> or <PERSON>'s firing. And not all of them are the oligarchs whose version of the nation is a libertarian money-printing machine for them and destitution for everyone else--too many are those who are or would be destitute, who can't see they've been conned and manipulated and divided-and-conquered. People attempt to comfort me by saying that American institutions and checks and balances are robust, that they've saved us before and they'll save us again, that "it can't happen here". Thinking of Germany, and Italy, and now the Philippines, and Hungary, and Poland, I wish I found that line of thought more comforting. But given that I suspect that <PERSON> is not above pulling an Achtung if he feels threatened enough . . .

591,855

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110

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Still think that a lot of people talking about the reboot are missing the possibility of a stealth progressivism. Have the people talking about <PERSON>'s <PERSON> sympathizing and narrow world view noticed that the writers have generally been portraying <PERSON> as the least sympathetic character on the new show, the most rigid and bigoted? Those who say that <PERSON> has always been portrayed as prickly may not remember the old show well--she was prickly, sure, but rather tolerant and broad-minded in a sort of curmudgeonly way (there were a lot of gay and nonconforming characters on the original, back when that was not as commonplace on TV as it is now). The <PERSON> of 2018 is being portrayed as particularly sour and rigid; the people around her, respective of their own problems, are being portrayed as more tolerant and broadminded. This can hardly be an accident, and can hardly be happening without a lot of input from <PERSON> as well as the showrunners, so I suspect that those who see the show as some sort of celebration of the <PERSON> mentality are missing the forest for the trees.

591,856

[ 591838, 591840 ]

201

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

We have to the part where we realize all of this harassment is part of the structure of the terms of cheerleading employment, not an unfortunate consequence. Women are basically told they are going to be displayed in skimpy outfits, often dancing in ways many men find sexually stimulating, and they're going to have to deal with whatever physical and verbal harassment that results. And I suspect this will go on even if there are successful lawsuits. The only way to stop it is for women to stop trying out for these squads. I know that's easy for me to say--there isn't a lot of employment for cheerleaders/dancers, and what employment exists, even in less harassing environments, is ridiculously competitive. But the only way for these situations to end is if they don't exist in the first place--these cheerleaders raison d'etre is to be ogled and fantasized about, and, for too many, to be grabbed.

591,857

[ 591865, 591970, 591954, 591927, 591914, 591939, 591912, 591915, 591836, 591949, 591930, 591878, 591933, 591963 ]

164

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I live in Elmhurst, Queens, with Corona just to the north, Jackson Heights just to the west, Rego Park just to the east and south. It is most certainly the most diverse set of zip codes in the United States, perhaps only rivaled by a few in California. And I think all the better for it. For a crowded, overpriced area, I think all of the people here get along amazingly well, united by their work ethics--the immigrants who come to this country tend to be the hardest working, most ambitious individuals from their old homelands, which is what enables them to make the jump--and by the never ending variety of their cuisines, partaking of each others' foodstuffs with great enthusiasm, and creating multi-cuisine mash-ups likely found nowhere else. It's probably not as quiet in these neighborhoods as it once was for the <PERSON> and the <PERSON>. But I'll gladly trade a little noise for some more of those somoza empenadas.

591,858

[ 591865, 591970, 591836, 591941 ]

214

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

As has been implied by a number of other commenters here, it would be a lot easier to listen to <PERSON>' and others' attempts at persuasion if the persuaders had a more consistent ethos of respect for all life, not just fetal life. But the inconsistency, and hypocrisy, of a "pro-life" stance that does not also stand against the death penalty, stand against international military adventurism, stand against the complete inalienable right to bear any sort of arm, and stand against the reduction or even complete gutting of safety net systems for those already out of the birth canal, young and old, gives a listener serious reservations about just where the persuaders' arguments really stem from.

591,859

null

142

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I like <PERSON> (even though, as a NYC resident, I obviously can't vote for him). Reminds me of <PERSON>, <PERSON>--those witty, aw shucks Texas progressives they sure don't make enough of. But my enthusiasm is tempered by the huge uphill climb he has, and my natural political cynicism. I can absolutely see that NRA and Koch money funneling into <PERSON> coffers and those attack adds that will equate <PERSON> with the commies that all red-blooded Texans know teach at Columbia. I devoutly wish those who are trying to get elected in a better way--particularly by spurning corporate donations--had a better track record at doing so. (It seems more possible in tiny states than in large ones or at the national level--see <PERSON> for an example of both.) In the meantime, I hope the Democratic establishment in Texas--whatever remains of it--is spending much more time on registering new voters and turning them out on election day than on worrying about the ad budget.

591,860

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24

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Quite cogent, Madame Secretary. The problem is that you need to consider that a huge number of Americans--perhaps not a majority, but certainly a large minority--support <PERSON>, and <PERSON>, and his and his cronies' fascistic tendencies. Indeed, a large minority actively WANT this country to suspend the civil rights of the members of many groups, and even think, according to polls, it would be a good idea to suspend the next national election. We keep thinking "it can't happen here". But I'm reminded of the scene in <PERSON> "Fear of Flying" in which she describes her trip to Germany and discovery of abandoned amphitheaters, and asks why they are overgrown and unused. She is told they were built for Nazi rallies, and that modern Germans are embarrassed by them. But a native tells her "you don't understand--the Germans LOVED <PERSON>", and the scapegoating, and the parades, and the marital law--they all made things less confusing, and gave a fearful people something to believe in. Until, of course, some years and many deaths later, they didn't. A hundred years from now, whoever's around to write about it will wonder how we were ever so stupid as to have chosen <PERSON>. And we'll look at him like we look at <PERSON> now. And we'll forget how he appealed to so many in the first place--and likely repeat the whole stupid process. People love <PERSON> because they are confused and fearful. We need to address what brings that fear, and that confusion, or this repeats.

591,861

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305782 ]

nyt_comments_9848255.0

Nice analysis of the psychological underpinnings of the political divide here. And it dovetails very nicely with <PERSON> column in the Times today about fear as a political driver. Those with more authoritarian views are driven more by fear--or, as <PERSON> points out here in the comments, by threat and threat avoidance. Surely, those who support <PERSON> and conservatism in general feel threatened by rapid change in both economic and social roles, and choose as their targets those they see promulgating those changes--economic elites on the one hand, previously non-privileged "identity" groups (non-whites, immigrants, women, LGBTQ people) on the other. What would be really important to examine, though, are what formative experiences and or genetic factors result in people becoming more open/less authoritarian or less open/more authoritarian. While <PERSON> mentions size of certain brain structures as underlying threat avoidance, I suspect that's a fairly minor factor--if biologic factors/heredity was a major factor, there'd be little change in how this was expressed across generations in the same family, and we know there is often quite a bit of change, with children often developing very different views on this from their parents, and in both directions. I suspect there's a lot of nuture rather than nature here; the trick is identifying the mechanisms.

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Yes, it's all been about fear. But more so on the part of <PERSON>'s supporters and voters than on Trump's. Trump's got plenty of fears, I'm sure, probably starting with what might be revealed by Russian kompromat--but we wouldn't have to be much concerned with any of it if it weren't for the fears of the voters who got him into office. Apparently, those voters fear a black/brown/female/LGBTQ planet; they fear the loss of the economic and racial privileges they took for granted for a long time, and they fear having to rapidly adjust to a rapidly changing world. And the fear has been very motivating, whereas the need for dealing with reality has not. A lot of pundits think <PERSON> got elected on the idea of "draining the swamp" and disrupting the status quo, doing things differently. I'll submit he got elected on "back to the future"--bringing things back to the way they were in the good old days, when blue collar white men had industrial jobs (and non-white blue collar people didn't), when sexual "weirdos" knew their place (generally, in the closet or at the bottom of a ravine), when never was heard a word of Spanish, when everyone went to church, when men were men, women were women (and livestock was nervous). Fear, of course, can be turned to anger by the proper demagogue--fear of THEM turned to repression of THEM. We have yet to see if fear OF that fear motivates others to the type of anger expressed in ballots to the extent the original fear apparently did.

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

After having watched the show last night--an episode that included and incident that definitely qualified as child abuse (<PERSON>'s character holding her granddaughter's head under a faucet)--I'm beginning to wonder if the show and its writers are not involved in an attempt to illuminate the sensibilities of Trumpists, but rather in a satirical stealth attempt to show just how ignorant and misguided Trumpists are. It WOULD be in keeping with the working-class feminist, pro-LGBTQ sensibilities of the original show. Given the <PERSON> character's portrayal as a pussy-hat wearing "nasty woman", and the subtle incidences or <PERSON>'s character being made to look rigidly foolish, this may be a thought worth pursuing.

591,864

[ 591865 ]

201

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Of course what <PERSON>, and so many other columnists and commenters have said, is altogether accurate. But the big mystery is still how we got to this place. A lot of people have spent a lot of time and column inches on that mystery, and it is still not close to being solved. After all, if one had any iota of brain, <PERSON>'s behavior if he got into the Oval Office was easy to predict. His legacy is long, sordid, and easily discoverable. His words and behavior have always indicated he's only interested in the lucre and the ratings and that which amplifies his name and brand. And, in the process of pursuing those interests, he'll bluster, lie, cheat, steal, and denigrate/legally intimidate anyone or anything he perceives as in the way. And YET, sixty-three million people voted for him. THAT's the mystery. I've heard/read all the theories about the racism, homophobia, fear, anger, despising of identity politics, economic insecurity, single issue-ism, and Fox/Breitbart-induced gullibility of <PERSON> voters. All of these undoubtedly contributed. But from where I'm sitting, it's not enough. There is the whole Russian/alt-right hacking of our votes theory--the idea that electronically collected votes with no auditable double check were subtly manipulated in crucial localities. THAT seems more plausible than many other theories. Still, we need to spend more time looking into the why here--if only to keep it from happening again.

591,865

null

152

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Agreed, <PERSON>. <PERSON> and his inner circle may be selfish, cruel, bigoted, and xenophobic, but they're not stupid. It's just that their cunning lies in the direction of knowing how to take advantage of those who ARE stupid--how to fleece them, grift them, play on their fears, and get them to give support anyway. It's certainly been said that a <PERSON> is not possible in a nation of the decently educated. In the parts of this nation that are decently educated, <PERSON> lost bigly. So, what does that make the parts of the nation that voted for him in large numbers? This is what you get when you have a constant drumbeat of anti-intellectual, "don't tell me your numbers", "don't raise my school taxes" airwaving out over vast swaths of the heartland.

591,866

[ 591838 ]

189

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I agree, <PERSON>, that maybe more people, whatever their group affiliation, need to redefine just what the American dream is, and what constitutes success under it. For a good number, that might mean going the entrepreneurial rather than the corporate employee route, as you seem to have. But this is not an easy road to go down--in large part because in the US we still have a backwards system of tying health insurance to employment status rather than ensuring it for all as a right of citizenship. It would certainly be easier, if one had health coverage regardless of employment status, to start a business, pursue a career in the arts--or follow an interest in freelance investigatory journalism. There are many political reforms needed in this nation, but making sure all have health coverage regardless of employment status--and the public funding of campaigns to help reduce the pernicious one dollar one vote influence of oligarchs--are two that are well worth fighting hard for.

591,867

null

21

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I am certainly sympathetic, <PERSON>, to the idea that if <PERSON> tries to get down in the gutter with <PERSON>, he's playing into <PERSON> tactics and will get just as grimy. Problem is, though, that when you attempt to take the high road in this country, you will get some kudos from the chattering class who were taught that one should put the argument above the person, but you'll get a lot more catcalling for being an elitist egghead--not a real person, not "one of us"--from the far greater mass of anti-intellectuals we like to cultivate here. Generally, to get your argument noticed, you have to do something to have it stand out from the cacaphony. Usually involves starting with the witty catcall or the personal insult. I suspect that a lot of the media is complicit in this, as others here have remarked, helping to spotlight comments about <PERSON>'s hands and maybe minimizing the constitutional issues <PERSON>'s book brings up. But, of course, constitutional issues are more important to you as a columnist and political writer, and, admittedly, to me and many of the other well-informed commenters here, than they are for the grand majority of people out there for whom they are, well, boring. As noted, those people won't read the book anyway--they'll just see the TV appearances. And I'm sure TV people do encourage <PERSON> to play to the hyperbolic style of that medium. It's unfortunante, but often you have to fight fire with fire rather than with water.

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I agree that in Cali (and plenty of other places) we've seen an erosion of the middle class. But one must ask oneself how that happened, and the analytic answers don't bode well for the Republican ethos, or, truly, the more mainstream Democratic ethos. After all, both of those have been complicit in the demise of union bargaining power, in the dismantling of truly progressive taxation of both wealthy individuals and corporations, and in the allowance of rich oligarchs to control campaign funding in a one-dollar one-vote manner. Outsourcing and technological displacement have surely also contributed to the hollowing of the middle class, but still, there's nothing wrong that much more progressive taxation, a resurgence in worker's rights, stricter financial sector regulation, and a return to the Fairness Doctrine--or even more hopefully, public funding of all elections with strict limits on individual and corporate contributions (and an overturning of Citizens United)--wouldn't go a long way towards curing. And I have the feeling that the rising generation is eventually going to insist on all these things, and not just in California.

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null

166

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

The undeniable power of these installations notwithstanding, I do hope they become more than just another memorial to shameless incidents in our past. I am not optimistic as to that, however; the United States still does not want to face up to its history of bigotry and outright genocide--African American, Native American, Asian American, and even Jewish, Southern European, and Irish American--to anywhere near the extent that Germany has been facing up to its history, and even South Africa has been facing up to its. It's certainly arguable that the installation of Le Grand Orange to our highest political office (right after that of <PERSON>) is a good indication we've still got a LONG way to go to even be mentioned in the same breath as those nations.

591,870

[ 591875, 591927 ]

252

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

A whole analysis of the shift in Republican control from the elites to the populists, and the word "racism" doesn't appear even once? I do thing the things <PERSON> mentions, particularly social media, contributed to the speed of the phenomenon, but it's hard to imagine it happening the way it did without the backlash to the election of a President of color by a threatened white Evangelical/working class.

591,871

[ 591937, 591896, 591885, 591865, 591951, 591908, 591963, 591831, 591875 ]

134

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453553, 509473, 348874, 468100 ]

nyt_comments_9848255.0

A whole column about the war against the poor--and several hundred comments--and nobody has yet pointed out the elephant in the back of the room. Can you spell C-A-L-V-I-N-I-S-M? Calvinism, you may recall, is that religious offshoot of austere Protestantism that was the preferred ethos of many of the early settlers to this country, including many of the most prominent citizens, and it has done much to shape the American philosophy about capitalism and how the rich and poor relate. Calvinists believe that God's favor in this life is shown through the ability of individuals to amass wealth and possessions. Those who do so are prima facie favored by God as members of the Elect, and worthy of heaven; those who do not are not favored and will not go to heaven. So, the poor obviously are not favored by God, and since they are not, it makes no sense to try to help them through charity or government program, as they are unworthy anyway, or so the circular reasoning goes. In other words, poverty is a failing of individual morality, not anything to do with a rigged system, so one's under no obligation to "help", or even notice, the poor. It doesn't take a genius to draw a short line from this to rapacious capitalism, Social Darwinism, "makers" vs. "takers", and fear of a black/brown/female planet. Most of the oligarchy holds the poor-are-unworthy belief; they may not know the religious origin, but American views on poverty cannot be understood without acknowledging this.

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

So, it's not ONLY the economy, stupid--although economic insecurity is the starting point for demogogic appeal . . . Edsall's analysis, and those of the people he quotes, provide quite a lot of food for thought. But one does wonder if the election of <PERSON> would have been possible if the previous President had not been as much a symbol of "otherness"--and if the 2016 Democratic candidate hadn't been as well. I suspect many white working class people who voted for <PERSON> did so because he gave them hope of change, which <PERSON> certainly encouraged with his campaign rhetoric. But when that change did not come rapidly to flyover country--when the recovery from the Great Recession did not touch most of them--they were ripe for a message of "see, the Black man advantages the line-jumpers; their situation got better and yours did not--and now there's a WOMAN running with the same ideas . . ." Of course, one can not underestimate the power of conservative propaganda in demonizing both <PERSON> and <PERSON> and misrepresenting their ideas. <PERSON>, in particular, could not advance a counternarrative (and strangely, neither could <PERSON>). But the alt-right used modern technologic info dissemination channels far better and convinced those voters that the non-white/female/immigrant/LGBTQ "elite" was enjoying a party the white working class hadn't been invited to. The question is who these people will turn to when the change doesn't come under a <PERSON> administration, either.

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Part of being "patriotic"--and I am a proud liberal--is having the insight, and courage, to criticize the myth and the ethos when it is not serving everyone, when the vision, however shining, does not illuminate the entire scene, leaving instead pockets in shadow. True patriots hurl a "J'accuse" at the real, in the name of the ideal. They seek to make the ideal more so for more people. They rightly denounce the racist, sexist, and xenophobic impulses that deny the dream to certain classes of people based just on membership in those classes. I am very comfortable with true patriotism, the kind that wants to spread the benefits of an inclusive ideal to everyone. What we get from the insular and static, who are all too often those "pure folk" of the "heartland"--is, indeed, the refuge of the scoundrel, and of the frightened.

591,874

null

242

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

To put it even more simply--our fundamental political argument is between those who think of freedom primarily as "freedom to"--the liberty to associate with whomever one wants, to enter into whatever economic relationships one wants, to express oneself however one wants, and "freedom from"--the liberty to not fear getting oppressed by or taken advantage of by those exercising their "freedom to", to have checks/balances/regulations on those actions that tend to produce big winners and big losers. These two types of freedoms are in constant tension. Your freedom to exercise religion may well conflict with my freedom not to be killed by you exercising a religious admonition to not suffer infidels. My freedom to make a fortune by using any/all tactics may well conflict with your freedom not to be ripped off or taken advantage of in the process of making my fortune. In general, the more you have of freedom to, the less you have of freedom from, and vice versa. Different societies come down on this question in different spots, and those spots historically change over time. Great Britain, for example, shifted along the freedom to/freedom from axis post World War II by taxing inherited wealth, developing the National Health Service, etc. Nordic nations are farther along the freedom from axis. The US has always been more "freedom to". We sometimes take a few steps in the "freedom from" direction, but we seem to be too Calvinist to go very far.

591,875

[ 591847, 591848, 591854, 591968, 591941, 591926, 591861, 591838, 591952, 591948, 591950 ]

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Actually, nothing that new here. But, I am reminded of the statement one less affluent mom made way back in the 70's when school integration and "busing" was a big issue in many areas. When asked why she fought so hard to get her son into a school in a more affluent area, she said "I can't guarantee he'll learn more there. But I guarantee he'll be TAUGHT more there!"

591,876

[ 591941 ]

180

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

It's time for "The New Fair Deal". Single payer, or at least a government option. Reinstatement of Glass-Steagall (with maybe a few new, tightened provisions). A massive WPA-style public works program, with retraining options for anyone who want them (particularly in green energy technologies). A revision of the tax code with simplified statutes, higher brackets for the very rich, and treatment of capital gains as regular income. (And then the corporate tax code can be simplified.) Hardly exhaustive, but this should be a good start for a platform. And if anyone has a catchier tagline than "The New Fair Deal", fine. But it needs to be short and simple.

591,877

null

133

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Personally, I think we're at an <PERSON> moment. And a <PERSON> moment. And a <PERSON> moment. And a <PERSON> moment. And, I still wish, a <PERSON> and <PERSON> moment. It seems these are the people willing to consistently speak real truth to power. The journalistic establishment still attempts to be nice, genteel, and "even-handed", apparently refusing to see that the usurpers have no interest in being any of those. (As other here have pointed out, about the Times article on Mr. <PERSON> today, "misled" is a poor substitute for "flat out lied".) Resistance on all fronts is necessary, but resistance through ridicule (based on facts) may be one of the most important. Especially given the weak-ego personalities we're dealing with.

591,878

null

31

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

<PERSON> has the right idea: all the conspiracy theories seem true to <PERSON>--and he can borrow some <PERSON> ideology to support his view--because, hey, some media outlets HAVE produced unflattering articles/reviews of <PERSON> and his projects, and since <PERSON> believes everything he's involved with is the biggest and the best, they must all be involved in a vast conspiracy, because how can anyone NOT see that what's he's involved with is the biggest and best? Of course, the rejoinder to that, though it's not a very original sentiment, is "you can't fix stupid". Trump doesn't know, doesn't know what he doesn't know, and isn't ever going to know or know what he doesn't know. That's a deadly combination in any realm, and, naturally, particularly dangerous in a Chief Executive. The real problem here is that not all <PERSON> supporters are part of the basket of deplorables; there are plenty, even Republicans, who are not stupid and know they don't know everything. But they've sold their souls for power, influence, and moolah, which they can comfortably do because they have Calivinist social Darwinism where their senses of community, compassion, and fairness ought to be. The key question is how do you contain THOSE hypocrites (or at least how do you get them out of office).

591,879

null

29

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Agreed, <PERSON>. But the problem may well be that the first group contains a lot of low information voters, who, quite frankly, are not that politically sophisticated and who are not reachable through sophisticated sociopolitical argument. They likely get most of their "news" through Fox and Breitbart in much the same way those who belong to the third group you delineate do. They certainly don't read the Times (or, the Nation, or the Atlantic, or Time, or even their local papers' editorial pages) in any numbers. Democrats will have to be much more sophisticated about the psychology of fear and security, as the Republicans have been for a long time, to get any number of votes from said group.

591,880

null

66

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

The bigger existential mystery is how <PERSON> got any women to consent to have sex with him. After all, he's been married thrice, and apparently has had at least several other affairs or liaisons. (I'm only counting the presumably consensual contacts here, not the many nonconsensual ones that have come to light.) I am at a loss to determine what these women thought they were getting out of <PERSON>. Money? Reflected fame? Introductions to further their careers? Either there's simply no accounting for taste, or there are some women who are willing to put up with all that comes with the <PERSON> (pun intended) in exchange for something else they want . . .

591,881

[ 591927, 591840 ]

62

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379763 ]

nyt_comments_9848255.0

This little thought experiment by <PERSON> just brings me back around to a point I've been making for a long time--our standards, for whatever reasons, are higher for liberals/Democrats than for conservatives/Republicans. For whatever reasons, we seem to EXPECT hypocrisy and absurdity from Republicans, and so, in the media and elsewhere, shrug our shoulders to it when it inevitably and expectedly occurs. But if a Democrat is somehow perceived as acting in opposition to his/her supposed principles, it's as if the apocalypse has happened, and the Devil has truly come to Earth. Is this because we in general don't think most Republicans or Conservatives actually have principles, so they can't really violate them? That all they are interested is power, so that anything-is-okay-if-you're-a-Republican?

591,882

null

80

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

As <PERSON> points out, until recently, the viewpoints of Democrats and Republicans on immigration were actually not that far apart. I certainly remember many Democrats arguing for a tougher immigration policy with more consideration given to higher vocational skill levels. The big elephant in the room, though (pun intended) is the split and hypocrisy within the Republican party regarding economic migrants. The party spokespeople throw red meat to the non-affluent base about how immigrants come in and compete with such non-affluent workers for jobs, and about how immigrants drive down wages. But the behind the scenes oligarchs undermine that position by continuing to deny support for universal e-verify and by actively encouraging policies to drive down wages, including looking the other way when their concerns hire illegals. IMHO Democrats have not done enough to point this hypocrisy out, and have not done enough to push for employment enforcement themselves, which, if accomplished, might actually go a good way towards reducing the economic migrant flow that white working class people fear. And then the argument can be made for a well-administered guest worker program, something which almost no one talks about and which might also be an avenue of compromise.

591,883

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223

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I may be echoing <PERSON>, but every time there's an attempt at a reasonable discussion of immigration policy I have to go back to the enormous hypocrisy shown by oligarchical business owners--most of whom skew Republican--on the issue. These are the people who give lip service to the idea that mass immigration hurts our native population by causing job competition and driving down wages--though it is arguable that this effect is considerably more prominent in non urban areas that are less immigrant dominant, and that immigrant heavy urban areas are more economically dynamic, as many immigrants start their own businesses--but the fact remains that these are the same people who steadfastly refuse to support national e-verify, and who hire undocumented immigrants under the table, for low wages, every chance they get. The fact remains that if there were major enforceable penalties for hiring undocumented people, there'd be a lot fewer of them working in the US, and we'd be having a very different discussion, which might even include a guest worker program, a topic almost never mentioned these days. And we might also be able to then discuss a framework for legal immigration, including which characteristics would be optimal, without all the racism and nationalistic baggage. But the oligarchs don't want that--for them, cheap labor and pitting working class natives against fear of a black/brown nation works just fine, keeping people from noticing their pillaging and greed.

591,884

null

28

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

To build on what Elrod implies, it can certainly be argued, the way we've structured things, that what is good for Main Street is not good for Wall Street, and vice versa. Wall Street is not fond of news that unemployment is low (even if many are underemployed) or that there is upward pressure on wages. If workers start getting a little bit bigger share of the pie, that means slightly smaller shares for the investor class and the oligarchic executives, and Wall Street stops its happy dance. If, on the other hand, companies find ways to improve their bottom lines by reducing wage and benefit costs--often by reducing the number of wage earners, or their hours--their stock prices rise. The overall economy, and the circumstance of the small fry, matter not to these big sharks, who are only concerned with how much chum they can scoop up. It may not be that Wall Street is not the wider economy; it may actually be that Wall Street is in contradistinction to the wider economy.

591,885

[ 591838, 591860, 591884, 591941, 591861, 591966, 591926 ]

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Nations can recover--and move forward--only when there is broad consensus within the population as to what the targets or the goals are. There may be considerable debate over process and detail, but there has to be substantive agreement on the end vision. I don't think the United States currently qualifies. And, it hasn't, to greater or lesser extent, at a number of points in its history. A civil war was fought over fundamental disagreement as to how to treat people brought over from Africa, one was almost fought a half century ago over how to conduct foreign policy, we are close to one now over how to allocate the fruits of technologic and economic advancement. It has been argued that a great strength of the US is its diversity--the national motto is E pluribus unum--out of the many, one--but it's certainly also arguable that diversity works against developing that consensus. The England that <PERSON> writes of was a lot more ethnoculturally homogeneous than our nation, even if it had similar economic inequality. There was certainly more of a start point of shared values; here it's hard to imagine the world view of a non-white immigrant lining up well with that of a fourth generation white working class underemployed; though they may well have some circumstances in common, they are unlikely to believe that. And an additional faction, the exploitative oligarch, has vested interest in keeping them in those beliefs. Recovery here will take much more than in England.

591,886

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27

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Social media outlets . . .amplify. That's what they are meant to do. Because the ultimate game in social media is popularity--eyeballs, clicks--and given that our lizard brain humanity is always bubbling under our cerebral cortical humanity, the easiest way to achieve that is with the ARRESTING!; with loud and bright and easy-to-react-to emotionality. Subtlety and nuance and hard intellectual work just doesn't have the same immediate allure. It would behoove us all to remember that the social media adrenaline shot that results in all this hate spray is a function of the way it works, a consequence of the environment. We do have the option not to partake of that environment, and to construct reasoned critiques of that environment, even if those critiques result in additional hate spray in those realms. In the end, one cannot censor one's opinions on the grounds that expressing them will result in haters hating. That is self censorship, self prior restraint, and in the end it detracts from the thesis/antithesis/synthesis process. And, in a supposed democracy, we want to keep that process.

591,887

null

224

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

It is, unfortunately, the economy, stupid. Even if the perception of the economy is not always in step with the reality. Trump's tax cut bill will certainly be a disaster for the deficit, and it's a windfall for the oligarchs. But his base voters don't care about that--all they will see, in their simplicity, is that they have a few more dollars in their paychecks than they did last year. And those that vote will tend to vote their wallets. Never mind that the way the tax bill is designed, many of them will see tax increases down the road. The genius of the bill is that will happen after the 2018 and 2020 elections, after which <PERSON> and a lot of his enablers won't care. It's certainly possible a stock market tank or commodity bubble burst will happen between now and then, and change some voters' perceptions, but I wouldn't bet on it. As it stands now, the Republicans have outmaneuvered the Democrats again, and it looks like Congress keeps its Republican majorities in 2008. Unless, of course, <PERSON> finds a really smoking gun.

591,888

[ 591918, 591951, 591842, 591847, 591955, 591963, 591893 ]

163

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Not sure I agree with <PERSON> here. The immigration issue is still one of the most motivating get out the vote issues for the Trumpian base. The mistake made in Virginia and some other contests was couching it in terms of a murderous horde of gang members descending on neighborhoods and turning them into third world shooting galleries. Even those whose neighborhoods have gang presence saw that was absurd and were turned off by it. When Republicans couch the immigration in terms of economic competition and cultural discomfort, though, they find a ready audience, and often win elections with it. (Orange example one sits in the White House currently.) As I've written before in these commentaries, white working class voters remember there was a time not long ago when the position of many Democrats on immigration was not that far from that of many Republicans--it involved a certain degree of limitation and more merit based eligibility. But the perception among many such voters is that over the last several years the Democrats are, in effect, pushing open borders, and that's a bridge too far for them. Some kind of compromise is certainly possible--many other nations have merit based limitations on their immigrants--and if Democrats were seen working towards such compromises, they might not only get greater support for allowing DACA to expand but might pick up enough votes to eke out some more Congressional seats.

591,889

[ 591963 ]

223

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Very well argued, David. But how do you get the vast masses of <PERSON> supporters out there--and they are vast, if not a majority--to listen to the argument? There is vast unfairness involved, as well as vengefulness. But near as I can tell, <PERSON> supporters for the most part share those values, lacking empathy and desiring the punishment of those not like them; for them, it's precisely the point. Too many Trumpists live in a bubble, promulgated by Fox News and AM radio talkshows, in which American values translate into "I want my nice gun wielding, church going, white male country, and everyone not like that or on board with it can leave, or die, because they aren't real Americans". Obviously, we've had a failure of education and civic responsibility; these are not people who could describe what is in the Constitution, or the function of courts--and in their fear of a black/brown/female/liberal planet, they aren't going to be considering those anytime soon. You, and many other columnists, academics, etc., have been making these nice, reasoned arguments in the hope that <PERSON> supporters might see some of the light. But how do you get people who in their fear find the darkness nice and warm and comforting to do that?

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

An interesting column from <PERSON>--wonkier than usual, although we can always count on some religious imagery in the service of making a point. I might agree that an economically populist working-class supportive culturally conservative party could be the basis for American center-right majority--if that majority didn't have as major components both the money changers and the xenophobic bigots. The anti-immigrant strain in the coalition contains too many whose real problem with immigration is fear of the other, particularly the black and brown other, rather than fear of economic competition, and even those that make the anti-immigrant argument in terms of economic competition don't have enough respect for science and research to know that available evidence points more towards technology and lack of education as causes of working class decline. And, the money changers in the coalition are still too Calvinist/Social Darwinist, still too libertarian and "government is best that governs least", to recognize that they need a solid middle class that buys products and services to keep filling their coffers, and that government has a role to play in promoting that middle class, even if it means having to pay some taxes and accept some regulation. On the other hand, there could just as easily be a center-left coalition with similar economic principles. <PERSON> and the campaigning <PERSON> (not the suborned governing <PERSON>) may have more economically in common than many will admit.

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93

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

As a companion to I.O.K.I.Y.A.R.--It's OK If You're a Republican--I submit R.A.J.A.T.L.S.--Republicans Are Judged According to Lower Standards. (Even by non-Republicans.) As many here point out, if <PERSON> or any other Democrat had been accused of one-tenth of what <PERSON> has been accused of, the clamoring for impeachment would have been deafening. But with <PERSON> and his cronies, the depredation is so pervasive it not only overwhelms, it becomes expected, and almost not worth reacting to. But at the root of that, is it that we expect Republicans to be hypocrites, so when they are, it's not a surprise and we don't get as worked up about it? From where I sit, Democrats are considered to be moralists, so when one is found in "do as I say, not as I do" mode, it's as if Armageddon has occurred, and cries of shame and hypocrisy echo across the land. But when a Republican does the same . . .well, it's not quite crickets, but there's a lot of "we expect this; we are not surprised" shoulder shrugging. Apparently, Republican misbehavior is perceived as par for the course, and not worth getting all that worked up over. And this holds not only for most Republicans, but most "independents", and even a number of Democrats. It's as if there's no surprise at all when a Republican has a hand in the cookie jar (or on the private parts). I don't know how things got this way, but it undeniably has helped the Republican power grab. How do we change it?

591,892

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49

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Interesting analysis, and certainly in keeping with the idea that the problem of massive inequality in a democracy is multifactorial. Drilling down, though, if I had to choose one reform that would make the biggest difference, and might lead to other reforms that would make differences, I would choose making all elections publicly funded. There is absolute need to take the overwhelming influence of oligarchs out of the election process by making it unnecessary for officeholders to turn to them for campaign funding. As long as this situation is in effect, elected representatives will almost by definition have to put the narrow interests of said oligarchs first, in order to keep getting funds for future campaigns, and cannot be expected to represent the interests of, really, anyone else. An absolute ban on corporate/company campaign contributions, an absolute ban on contributions by individuals above a certain very low amount, and primary funding of elections through public funds might go a long way towards allowing representatives to advocate for a much broader swath of the population, and to create legislation and regulations designed to reduce inequality (minimum wage raises, legislated nationwide benefits, universal health insurance, workplace protections--the list is nearly endless). As it now stands, it is the rare politician who can stand for those things oligarchs, who have pretty homogeneous political demands, don't want.

591,893

null

166

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Yes, America. Land of the free. And home of the gaping exit wound. Yet, it's actually not true, as people in other countries think, that all of us are high-falutin' cowboys, packing multiple automatic weapons, shooting at anything that moves. There are numerous sane communities, and a number of sane states, where the right to a firearm is not sacrosanct and regulated closely. As noted, these places tend to have much lower rates of firearm death. The problem is, there aren't enough of them, and sometimes they're located next to places that don't possess that sanity and which provide freely flowing guns for the ne'er do wells in the saner locations. We do have to address the fundamental attitudes about guns in those places. It's not about the 2nd amendment, though that remains a convenient crutch (it does say "well regulated militia", implying regulation). It's more closely related to fear of the other, very often the black or brown or Muslim other. And given that this is a mostly male phenomenon, it's really time to look into the sexual link (too many don't like to talk about the whole expulsion/penetration metaphor). Don't know if there's any psychological evidence on this, but I'm willing to bet that the most gun loving places and people are also the most anxious about male role and sexuality.

591,894

[ 591875, 591927 ]

203

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Quite on point, Matt. And let me add that, all fears on the part of gun fetishists that they may need to defend themselves against an intruder, or a grizzly bear, aside, a lot of what <PERSON> talks about as regards the belief gap comes down to, as you have implied, do you basically trust the government, the state (deep or otherwise) or not. If you fundamentally believe government is a help, not a hindrance, that it is basically trustworthy and tries to do the right thing, than there is no need for keeping a large batch of military style weapons under your roof. If, of course, you thing that government is not only the problem, but a danger to you and yours, then the argument is made for the arsenal. It just seems to me that the arsenal keepers are, as you indicate, much more paranoid about government intentions than is warranted. Not that they could easily resist a government that truly wished them ill, as it would have bombers, tanks, and drones at its disposal. And there's an element of self-fulfilling prophecy to the arsenal viewpoint--by trying to break down the government, reduce its effectiveness and its ability to provide protection and its services--a policy many, if not most gun fetishes agree with--one is just providing oneself with more excuses for the fetish. We all need to build a government that is more trustworthy, not less; more effective, not less.

591,895

[ 591861, 591926 ]

203

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Agreed, <PERSON>, that there were many and varied voter suppression tactics aimed at African-American voters during the run-up to the 2016 election--some set up by state election boards, and some more insidious propaganda tactics urging Black folks to stay home. But I think you hit on the most important factor--<PERSON>, or someone like him (and I mean by that someone African-American identified) was not on the ballot. It's said to say, but voting is still far too ethnic. African American voters came out to vote in 2008 and 2012 for obvious reasons, and their votes made all the difference in the outcomes. There was no African American on the major party tickets in 2016, so the enthusiasm was not there. The decline in black voter participation in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, and many parts of Florida made all the difference in 2016. The ray of hope is that people have now realized that not voting has consequences, and will not do that again, even if local powers try to make voting difficult. Certainly that seems to have happened in the Alabama Senate race and in a number of Virginia legislative races. We can only hope that trend continues. But I hope no one thinks it disingenuous of me to suggest that Democrats make sure there is an African American, or Hispanic American, individual on the ticket in 2020. And perhaps that person, or the other person on the ticket, should be female. (Still think more voters are motivated by the "like me" aspect.)

591,896

[ 591941, 591963 ]

141

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

The current crop of Republican politicos are just Calvinist/Social Darwinists who believe poverty is located in the individual person, in their bad choices and lack of a work ethic, and never has anything to do with the circumstances of the larger world. Calvinism, you may recall, was that offshoot of the Protestant Reformation that believes that one shows one's favor in the eyes of God--one's membership in the Elect--through the accumulation of material goods and wealth on Earth. If one does this, one is obviously favored by God and worthy of Heaven. And if one does not do this, one is NOT favored by God and worthy of Heaven. And, of course, those who are poor should not be helped or given anything because they are obviously not good and worthy, or so the circular reasoning goes. Our oligarchs don't often use the religious justification for their greed anymore, but you can see it in their words and deeds, in their "if you're so smart, why aren't you rich" mantra, and in their contention that any sort of welfare or safety net is just going to those who don't deserve it anyway, because if they deserved it they wouldn't need it. Excellent blaming the victim strategy. Of course, the real motivation behind this is that any sort of social safety net is like higher wages for workers--a drain on finite resources that should rightly go to them, the deserving job creators. It's a flimsy philosophical cover for I -me-mine greed, pure and simple.

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[ 591838 ]

206

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Great column, Tom. I'm sure I'll be quoting pithy lines from it for a long time. Just one thing to add--I still do believe in <PERSON>'s idea that the arc of history is long but bends eventually towards justice, but I also believe that arc sometimes bends because it enters the gravitational field of violence. Justice, and power, is rarely granted to those that don't have it--usually, those that don't have it have to take it. And, unfortunately, that generally means with the threat or actuality of violence. Even <PERSON> realized that certain regimes were not vulnerable to the non-violent process. When asked if his way could counter Nazi Germany, he said "not without defeats", and he may have been too optimistic; I have the feeling that large non-violent marches of the kind he led would have been met with tanks and machine gun fire by <PERSON>. And today, I think such marches would be met very similarly in a lot of locales. It's not a premise I'm happy to espouse, but I think we're seeing how justice for people who are members of marginalized groups is harder and harder to get through persuasion and rhetoric. Most people--even far too many of the marginalized--are more fearful of that violent disruption than tyranny, so they all too readily opt for the latter; they feel what they have to lose through fight is more than what they lose by repression. Almost no repressive situation ends non-violently. And there's no guarantee it'll end at all, arc or no arc.

591,898

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14

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

As <PERSON> implies, I too would like Mr. <PERSON> to talk to the students at less "elite" institutions. The students Mr. <PERSON> speak of seem to have not only some decent reflective capabilities, but seriousness of purpose, whatever purpose they are trying to develop. That is a good thing, but I wonder about the selectivity of the sample, both at these institutions and at others. I do imagine there are many, many students at college who are there primarily for the credential that they hope leads to a decent job that will support at least a middle class life, and that their reflectivity is primarily about that, with ruminations about wider purpose and meaning a luxury they cannot afford. And, of course, there's always that subset whose ruminations don't go much beyond whether to go to the Thursday night party with domestic beer or the one with imported beer. Hopefully that subset is getting smaller.

591,899

null

6

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Very true, Dan. My academic background (psychology, sociology, political science) drives my interest in these types of discussions/debates--but I recognize all too well what a massive loud yawn most people would give to the theoretical constructs discussed here. Maybe what it all comes down to stems from the old Yiddish admonition to be a mensch--take responsibility for your actions, and treat others, no matter what identity they may have, as you would want to be treated, with respect and compassion.

591,900

null

45

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

At least until enough progressives are voted into office that changes can be legislated, progressively-minded voters will need to grit their teeth and work hard to overcome the Republican backed measures to depress voting turnout (such as voter ID laws, repeal of mail balloting, and the like). That means going door to door to make sure people are registered. That also means making sure people turn out on Election Day, with phone banks and carpools and whatever else it will take. It also means being articulate and forceful when confronted with poll workers who try to keep some people from voting when there is question over ID's and eligibility, and it also means being social media savvy enough to post these incidents online where people can see them and galvanize around them. Yes, it's going to be a lot of work, and there are numerous segments of the population that may feel it's too much, that they don't want to stick necks out, that it doesn't matter anyway. To those, I say in the end, it's the only thing that does matter. For those who don't think election results have consequences, take a good, long, and non-denial look around you right now. And resolve never to be in this situation again.

591,901

[ 591949 ]

141

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

"Am I, as a columnist, no longer allowed to use irony as a rhetorical device because there’s always a risk that bigots and dimwits might take it the wrong way?" This provides the entry point into the problem you delineate <PERSON>, and also a possible solution--though the solution is likely to disquiet a lot more people on one side of the political divide than the other. There are too dimwits out there. That's on all of us, but much more on the conservative side than the liberal. We have allowed education into how to discuss issues, into how to tell a logical sequence from a random one, into how to distinguish a verifiable fact from an alternative fact, to completely deteriorate, along with the deterioration of what used to be called "civics" in the curriculum. But there's no question--again, by verifiable fact--that the right side of the political spectrum has been much more guilty of this than the left. The left at least gives lip service to the idea that there are verifiable facts, and that these can be discovered. The right finds these facts at best "inconvenient" and at worse in the way of its agenda, which usually involves some Calvinist/Social Darwinist I-me-mine greed aggrandizement. For the situation you describe to change, that educational environment needs to change. But the right will severely resist that, as it knows it won't do well in that environment. And that, in the end, defines false equivalence to a "T".

591,902

null

10

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I realize that what I'm about to write is anecdotal, and far from a scientific survey. But, in the aftermath of #MeToo, I have asked all of my close friends and family members if they have ever experienced a situation they would classify as being sexual harassment, as opposed to non-sexual bullying (which I asked about as well). Obviously, I indicated that it was perfectly okay not to respond--and that I hoped the question wasn't bullying. Pretty much everyone was eager to talk, though--often at considerable length. Among those who identify as female, whether straight identified or not, every single individual reported at least one incident. Many reported multiple incidents. Among those who identify as male, about a quarter reported such an incident. The majority of those who identified as gay or bisexual male reported such an incident, and often multiple ones. It's interesting that many more who identified as male reported bullying incidents that they did not think had some sexual component. Those identifying as female noted bullying incidents, too, but much more often with they perceived as a sexual component. (Everyone reported at least one bullying incident.) Of course, this is only my sample. But I suspect it wouldn't be different from those of most other people. This crap is absolutely pervasive. How did we learn to treat each other so badly?

591,903

[ 591927, 591840, 591914, 591878 ]

173

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

I can agree with you <PERSON>--as far as it goes. The big question, though, is how we got to this point; how we developed such a naive, uninformed population that Russian disinformation was disseminated because it MIGHT influence some of that population. Surely, if the Russians had determined that we had responsible, educated, informed people living here, they would have spent more of their money and time on some other ways of influencing the election, such as you allude to. But apparently, they (an others) recognize that in the US you can fool too many of the people too much of the time. I don't disagree with you that this phenomenon is on us--it's our own fault, for being lazy, unmotivated, gullible, uniformed, for not being smart enough to realize there were no child pornography rings being run out of pizza parlors and the like. I suspect, though, we would diverge on what the solutions to such stupidity are.

591,904

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0

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

<PERSON>, as <PERSON> intuits, does know how to "put on a show". His behavior as President is undoubtedly going to be long on the bread and circuses, and short on the vegetables and substance. Of course, that is exactly what the American public likes, apparently, so it's unlikely that it'll will notice the men behind the curtain feverishly pulling levers to transmit even more wealth and privilege into the pockets of the already wealthy and privileged. The ones who do notice, who want to pull back the curtain? Doomsayers, liberal apologists, nattering nabobs of negativism. As long as the scantily clad dancers are paraded about at regular intervals, and shiny objects and blameworthy others are dangled in front of it, the American public will for the most part remain rooted and transfixed in its seat. It's doubtful the nuclear missile launches would even be noticed until they occurred. This is what happens when you destroy civics classes in middle school, and teach kids from textbooks that conflate creationism and evolution as theories of biodiversity. And we can spiral down knowing we did this to ourselves, that we only have ourselves to blame. Except, of course, we're not that insightful.

591,905

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25

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

Yes, we should bring back the draft. But not necessarily for military service. The option of public service--<PERSON>' "moral equivalent of war"--should be on a equal footing with serving militarily. The possibility to work alongside people from many different walks of life--doing tutoring, helping the infirm, working in our national parks and monuments, even doing infrastructure work (a la Habitat for Humanity) would go a long way towards breaking down the bubbles to many people live in and fostering a sense of "we're all in this together", without the possibility of getting suddenly killed. "National service" is not an idea whose time has come--it's an idea that was always timely. It just doesn't have to be military, and, in most cases, shouldn't be. And it should be paid, of course, through a much fairer tax levy (none of this unpaid internship slavery garbage).

591,906

[ 591861, 591904 ]

146

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nyt_comments_9848255.0

One hopes that the utter chaos that the repeal of the ACA will bring--and the lives that will be compromised and lost in the aftermath of the repeal--will bring a mighty floodtide of activism into the next Congressional and Presidential elections and the replacement of these Calvinist/Social Darwinist politicians with those who might care enough to drive home single payer/Medicare for all, or at least a public option. One hopes. (Reminder--hope is a muscle.)

591,907

[ 591898 ]

155

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201443 ]

nyt_comments_9848255.0

But . . . When are we, and the media, going to stop letting the <PERSON> and <PERSON> of the world get away with this? When are we going to stop treating them like reasonable people with reasonable points of view, rather than the spinmeister out-and-out liars they are? When are we going to give up this norm of reasonable discourse when confronted with these lies, and stop treating these untruths like just another point of view? Even the most adversarial interviewers seem to start from the assumption--or are told to start from the assumption--that sitting across from them is a person who will engage them in discourse, who will actually consider their question for answer, when this is obviously not the case. When is an interviewer or an anchor going to bluntly say "<PERSON>, you are lying right now?" Or "<PERSON>, you pointedly did not address my last question. I ask you again . . ." Is there too much of a worry that the ratings will take a hit if that happens? That is will be perceived as rude? Isn't what the <PERSON> of the world do WORSE than rudeness?

591,908

[ 591838, 591954, 591897 ]

234

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441324 ]

nyt_comments_9848255.0

The country is quite polarized--on a number of dimensions. Urban vs. rural. Working class vs. college educated "brainjob" holders. Religious vs. not. One of the dimensions is not, however, Republican vs. Democrat--not in the traditional sense, anyway. As <PERSON> and his quoted note, there may well be a fundamental redefinition ongoing as to who supports which party. It's tempting to think of things as populist vs. elite, but those categories have the habit of being rather fluid. Knowledge workers who might have considered themselves elite are about to be disrupted by automation and robots as well--it's already happening in design, architecture, law. It's hard to feel elite when you're a J.D. degree holder doing cold call selling or barista-ing. Eventually, the party--existent or emerging--that addresses the fundamental shift in our economic lives, the changing nature of work as an identity as well as material living provider, will have a YUGE constituency. As others have noted, except for the MOST elite, almost all of us will have some form of working life. Those who address what is to be done when there is much less work to be done by people, and even most brain workers lose their premium (whether that involves shorter workweeks, guaranteed income, bigger safety nets/"entitlements") will garner many votes. The question is, will such a movement emerge with enough energy before "the house divides", or climate change makes all these issues moot.

591,909

null

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