I don&#x27;t know of any other forums to discuss this stuff, other than philosophy seminars that I&#x27;m not invited to, so... what do you think about this?<p>The polarity between relativism and absolutism in morality is going to end up totally irrelevant, since it leads to nothing but squabbles and more confusion. It&#x27;s not a productive way forward to try to decide which of those extremes is best, because they each have irreconcilable stances, and they both ultimately come down to arbitrary decision (either &quot;because I feel this way&quot; or &quot;because the ultimate ineffable authority says so&quot;).<p>Even the new school of quasi-objective morality, á la Sam Harris, seems to fail to be convincing, inspiring, or even as rational as it wants to be.<p>I think a realistic approach to morality should start with the question of what people actually care about. What values exist, in the actual society that I could conceivably influence? How does a person become respected, what motivates people, what appeals are possible?<p>I have no influence over, say, Saudi Arabian Islam, except for maybe through some secular channels... Actually, the recent article about the global appeal of metal music was interesting. If there is any ethical content in the metal community, which I hypothesize that there is, then it could end up being a kind of covert channel for values...<p>I&#x27;m reminded of the story of the Velvet Revolution, which ended Communist Party rule in Czechoslovakia without violence... and which was rooted in a story that involves <i>The Plastic People of the Universe</i>, an obscure experimental rock band inspired by the Velvet Underground, Frank Zappa, and Captain Beefheart.<p>&gt; &quot;<i>The Plastic People were ultimately a major catalyst to the overthrow of communism in Eastern Europe. History would most surely have been very different without them.</i>&quot;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.furious.com&#x2F;perfect&#x2F;pulnoc.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.furious.com&#x2F;perfect&#x2F;pulnoc.html</a><p>Um, I&#x27;m heading for work and don&#x27;t have time to think up a coherent way to end this. But a lot of my thinking is influenced by Richard Rorty&#x27;s <i>Contingency, Irony, and Solidarity</i>.<p>Just one more random speculation: the focus on &quot;habits&quot; subtly inforces a morality of stability. People who emphasize habits probably aren&#x27;t going to say that the primary ethical injunction is to dismantle the existing structures of oppression. And you could argue that self-help, including mindfulness and much of psychology and psychiatry, has a stabilizing function within the capitalist system of labor.