I don&#x27;t know about France, at least publicly they are not very excepting of privacy arguments, specially after Paris. I have no idea about the secret part.<p>Germany is somewhat different because of its history. We know quite a bit about what the BND does, in terms of monitoring extremist groups. We have pirates in pretty important positions and the CCC is regularly working with government in oversight commissions.<p>It is pretty hard to hide all that you are doing, both in terms of physical infrastructure and in terms of financials. Now it may be that the BND is extremely clever and hiding all of this from basically everybody. However given the competence displayed by the BND on various action that they have taken, it is a really hard sell that they are operating a infrastructure close to the US or UK one.