Yes I read your post.  That's why I was able to quote from it.  If you want to hire a good programmer, ask them about programming.  It's that simple.  Set up a few scenarios and let them talk and whiteboard their way out of it.  Ideally you'll be able to come up with a range of problems that range from familiar to totally unknown.  The familiar scenarios will tell you if they are bullshitters, and the unfamiliar scenarios will tell you how quickly they can adapt to new environments.<p>While it is true that people who program outside of work tend to be good programmers, it is not true that all good programmers program outside of work.  And your note about charity work is outright insulting to anyone who has spent their free time helping those in need.