&gt; <i>working group also boasts the hilarious threads where William Simpson and Perry Metzger ran Phil Rogaway --- Phil Rogaway! --- off the list for trying, early and without success, to fix some of the more basic crypto mistakes</i><p>I did not know that, thank you for pointing it out.<p>On the other hand, I think I even read through the other material:<p>&gt; <i>A decade later, Eric Hughes (I think? One of the early cypherpunks) made news [...]</i><p>I got the link from somewhere, possibly on SILC, and remember the ensuing discussion. There was a lot of bickering, and one of the comments has remained with me. Can&#x27;t remember the exact words, but the context was <i>&quot;if this was NSA, they sure knew how to appear juvenile.&quot;</i>