Hmm. It seems it's time for me to weigh in on some things.<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10074532#msg10074532">Quote from: Ghostwheel on 03-06-2014, 23:33:43</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Or my character will inform the police that you're binding Evil creatures, which I'm fairly sure is a crime in Waterdeep (correct me if I'm wrong, DM). Not sure you want the entire force on your ass. That said, my character doesn't approve of evil outsiders, and <em>will</em> make efforts to kill them (after all, this is a Good party, for the most part), especially as they are the actual incarnation of evil.<br/><br/>Also, if she's effectively an NPC by the rules, then you should use the NPC wealth table (found on page 127 of the DMG). CR 7 NPCs start with 7.2k gold, FWIW.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div>Yes, it is a crime to bind evil creatures in Waterdeep. Hell, even binding good creatures in could be considered slavery, which is illegal in Waterdeep, depending on which races their laws extend to.<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10074579#msg10074579">Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on 03-06-2014, 23:46:37</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Oh yeah, it's true I should had used NPC wealth. But GM said 'bound succubus count as cohort' so I assumed PC wealth could be used. But GM decides; will he let PC controlled succubus have 13,000gp or 7,200gp. Benefit with first one is that my succubus has ring of mind shielding and thus she would not register 'evil outsider' on paladin radar.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br/>Let's go with the progression from Savage Species that allows for monster characters to be at a set ECL and as a younger or less experienced member of their monster race. Zaer, if you don't have Savage Species, I'll be happy to type out the level progression for a Level 7 Succubus for you. As for wealth, let's stick with NPC wealth for now as a demon busily fornicating with or violating beings in Shendilavri wouldn't have had an adventuring career with the accompanying loot, not to mention that we're treating her as a cohort.<br/><br/>And it goes without saying that she should be in her alternate form around the party, and damn near everyone else.<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10074809#msg10074809">Quote from: Ghostwheel on 04-06-2014, 00:47:50</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">I assume since we're beyond first level, we've done more than our fair share of adventuring thus far. Outsiders are very iconic, and I'd imagine that by this level he's faced more than a few of them. They are, by definition, Evil (with a capital "E") incarnate. While he's not a paladin class wise, he's pretty close to one--Crusaders are Paladins without the necessity of a code of conduct. He can make decisions, when they're of absolute necessity, to work with Evil creatures and won't fall due to it, but far and wide unless he's forced to be circumstance, he prefers to smite them due to the danger they pose of affecting and corrupting the people around them simply by their presence and influence. It's not mindlessly butchering them on sight; it's ending their ability to corrupt people and inflict pain and misery on good, decent people. And as you said, non-evil succubi are vanishingly rare. I don't think it would be unsafe to assume that outsiders with the Evil subtype are Evil, especially with how convincing and seductive some of them can appear.<br/><br/>Plus, you don't have to take levels in Paladin to be a Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html) :P<br/><br/>Also, is the summoned succubus an actual cohort, or simply a bound outsider?<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div>I'm with you on that. Even if he were a halfling ranger at the ass end of nowhere, a demon is not something that you want to ignore whether it's bound or not. The fact that he's dedicated to the Triad, a Lawful Good trio of gods, means that a demon is antithetical to his entire way of thinking, and considering the harm inherent in having one around,<strong>especially one so dedicated to corrupting mortals</strong>, is inviting trouble.<br/><br/>She'd be a cohort mechanically in every way that isn't affected by her being a bound outsider (stats, wealth-by-level, etc.), but flavor-wise, she'd a bound outsider (native outsider, subject to<em>banishment</em>, etc.).<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10074845#msg10074845">Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on 04-06-2014, 00:56:38</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">True that evil outsiders are definitely evil and Adrian would agree. But when using planar binding I can limit what they can do and what they cannot do. So any corrupting or evil they do, solely depends how strict I am with the said minion so Dale may lecture Adrian being reckless fool or lecture if succubi goes out of line in behavior. But unless Dale finds my succubus doing nothing more what a woman with entirely loose moral standards would otherwise do, he has no right go smite my succubus :P. If he starts say she is corrupting mortals in giving fiendish quality blowjobs, I would point out festhalls do similar things for pay where succubus does for free (minus most cases they suck life off from you but Adrian strictly forbid it already unless guy or gal willingly offers a taste).</blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div>I'm not sure that a succubus would be protected under Waterdhavian law in the same way that a human would. In fact, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be. If Dale discovers that Adrian has a succubus and then slays her, he'd sooner get a medal from the City Watch than be charged with a crime, regardless of what he can prove she's done. Think about the prejudice against drow, how dangerous they are, and how the social norm is to attack them on sight (if you can't run away). Now consider how much worse that would be if they were made out of tangible Evil and Chaos.<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10074845#msg10074845">Quote from: Zaer Darkwail on 04-06-2014, 00:56:38</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Anyways GM told 'treat succubus as cohort' so I take it literally here that she counts like cohort. Normally you can have one of them but at least one prestige class allows two of them and thus there is no real limit in regards cohorts if he does similar binding to other fiend. But question is indeed does she get PC or NPC wealth. PC offers more flexibility kit her out to be mildly more useful besides succubus standard traits.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div>Yeah, we're not going to have this get in the way of Adrian's imp familiar. A familiar is not quite the same as a bound outsider mechanically or flavor-wise, even if an Improved Familiar does get played that way. Any trouble between the Lawful-Evil imp and the Chaotic-Evil succubus would be interesting, though. Imagine the scenario of the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other, but with the polar opposites of Law and Chaos rather than Good and Evil...<br/>But let's go with the Savage Species level 7 Succubus with NPC wealth for balance.<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10074876#msg10074876">Quote from: TheGlyphstone on 04-06-2014, 01:03:21</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Which is, ultimately, a non-Good attitude. Orcs are almost always evil, but no Paladin, with or without a Code, would just up and stab an Orc buying meat in the city market, not doing anything Evil. Even if the Paladin scans and finds the Orc is actually Evil, he'd be on very shaky grounds to up and murder said Orc without just cause. </blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div>The major difference there is that an orc is evil because of what orc society values (cruelty, strength, power at any cost, etc.). A demon<em>is</em>chaotic-evil<em>itself</em>in tangible form. An orc could just be buying groceries to eat. A disguised demon in Waterdeep would almost positively be there only to cause harm and spread corruption. With an orc, you might even want to start a conversation before judging whether it's there to kill people or to buy things. With a demon, like with a drow, it's a good idea to shoot first and ask questions later. It's not about good versus evil, it's about survival and risk.<br/><br/><div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=189056.msg10075189#msg10075189">Quote from: MistressVoluptas on 04-06-2014, 02:07:50</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Being a subtle temptress kind of fits what I had in mind anyway. xD I mean crinkling my hands and going "Muhahahaha!" all the time might be fun in a different game, but not when someone is holding your leash.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div>That's the kind of character I'm foreseeing anyway. She'd be trying to cause Chaos just as much as Evil, so subtly trying to seduce the men and play the men off of each other would probably be one of her methods for achieving her goals.<br/><br/>