Personally I think that this is a disagreement over the wording in the phb about the definition of Charisma correct?<br/><br/>Quote<br/><br/>Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness.  This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting, Charisma is most important for paladins socerers and bards.  It is also important for clerics since it affects their ability to run undead. Every creature has a charisma score.<br/><br/>end quote<br/><br/>Yes Charisma measures a character's physical appearance.  However as I've seen in real life, not everyone who has a strong 'force of personality', DEFINITELY not everyone who is persuasive, not even everyone who has the ability to lead is attractive.    You do have me on that personal magnetism and appearance seem to be strongly related in the real world.  However as over half of the factors that contribute to charisma are personality based and not physically based I'd rule that it is possible for someone to be charismatic without being physically attractive.  I mean I don't find Aberham Lincoln, George W Bush, or Winston Churchhill attractive but all of these people were able to inspire large numbers of people to do what they wanted and that comes back to the fundamental concept behind Charisma.  as wrong as it may sound to you Maleficent I think we could find someone in the real world who doesn't stand out because of their looks, but is an amazing leader, or inspiring speaker.<br/><br/>On the other hand I can see where your coming from in that most people who are charismatic due have excellence 'physically appearances'.  But in light of the above argument, I am inclined to agree that you could have an 'average joe' looking person who has the leadership abilities of a five star general, or the persuasiveness of a career con artist, or the force of personality of a superstar.  When the average of all the elements that make up Charisma come together, its possible to have an 18 charisma without being beautiful.  If it will help resolve this issue, I'll let everyone choose a realistic stat for the '7th' attribute provided in the book of erotic fantasy. Appearance which would solve your dispute correct?