Fair points...<br/><br/>I mean, 40K started more setting-wise as a satirical take on 80s British government when it first started, with Thatcher and all that, 1st edition reminded me of the movie<em>Brazil</em>a fair bit. Orks as the football hooligans is something that never really left. Because for around 20 years the setting tried to play things more straight and wipe away the kooky aspects (Noise Marines used to have metal mohawks and electric guitar guns with hair metal colour-schemes), it's made that issue like you said, grimdark though still kinda funny in aspects, though that was kinda the point at first until Black Library came and Dan Abnett made things<em>super serial now you guys</em>.<br/><br/>Also yeah, I mean it was basically Warhammer Fantasy Battle, but in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE!! when it started too. Now, it's more it's own animal though I mainly just centre on the table-top and enjoy playing that. The lore is pretty secondary to my enjoyment truth be told.