<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=59009.msg2681284#msg2681284">Quote from: Ryvaken on 28-01-2010, 19:58:53</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Uh...the hardness of a common warstrider is sufficient to negate the majority of weapons held by First Age troops up to Ashigaru, or Second Age troops up to Elite. Nothing about the warstrider design penalizes the parry DV, which is pretty easy to pump to high levels. That's significantly more than "peasant billmen." After that is the psychological impact. And, of course, at the end of it all is that you're assuming a singleton warstrider without supporting troops or other warstriders in battle. Especially for a terrestrial game, that's simply not how it goes down.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br/>Given the high background dot costs for a warstrider, if you're facing someone who spent the equivalent number of background dots on an army, you'll be outnumbered about 3-4 to 1, which is enough to get enveloped and attacked in ways that completely negate your DV.  At that point, your opponents will be able to score enough successes to negate your hardness half of the time, and as long as the commander has a high valor, the psychological impact isn't going to be a problem.   I suspect you don't know how hardness works.<br/><br/>And that's not even counting at all the -4 external penalty you suffer to awareness rolls, which mean that you'll lose initiative and makes it pitifully easy for an enemy walk up and stab you in the back, negating your parry DV.  (And once wound penalties kick in, you'll be even more deeply in hock for DV.)  Earth aspects and tiger and bear celestial martial artists can get around this, but the fact remains that there's very little reason NOT to deliver a massive coordinated attack on a warstrider.  Against reasonably well equipped mass combat units, that -3 external penalty on attack rolls is also going to bite you in the ass hard.   (Even heroic mortals commanding green troops can hit a parry DV of 10 in mass combat, while simultaneously attacking with 6 automatic successes, equivalent to an optimized solar using the 2nd excellency.)<br/><br/><br/>EDIT:  After running some numbers, I've determined that a warstrider does in fact offer<em>minor</em>benefits in mass combat, but not nearly so many that one would actually want to build one rather than simply raising more troops.  The main trouble is that the soak benefits are essentially redundant, and the subtraction of 3 from your unit's effective combat rating more or less counteracts any benefit you gain from a damage increase, especially after having to commit a great deal of essence to the stupid thing.  So basically, if you already have as large of a unit as you can possibly command, and are already armed with first age artillery, and have already hired the best beings you can as officers (the most effective upgrade to any army)  THEN you should go and get a warstrider.