<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=221520.msg10896806#msg10896806">Quote from: Blinkin on 16-01-2015, 18:00:07</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">D&amp;D 3.x gutted both the rogue and the Ranger, and Pathfinder didn't treat the rogue a lot better. As far as I know. 4.0 and beyond hasn't altered the class(es) very much from the original gutting either. Ultimately, both systems made spell-throwers the ultimate class and left pretty much everyone else in the dust.<br/><br/>And, out of curiosity, anyone else out there able to do 100+ points of damage per round? If Justin actually hits, he's maxing out at about 30 points.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br/>Well, and see, even Ranger at least has the unique concept of "woodsman".<br/>Rogue is just... "guy that is skilled."<br/>And now, with the whole way that D&D has been influenced by MMOs, is a "DPSer".<br/>As of now in Pathfinder you have Bards (jack of all trades, with the musician angle being a very special trait), Rangers (again, skilled woodsman), Slayer (basically an assassin), Hunter (similar to Ranger, but more with more Druid-y stuff), Inquisitor (church-oriented witch-hunter type), and Investigator (a bit like the Bard in that it's a jack-of-all-trades kind of class, but with alchemy instead of magic, and a dose of the Robert Downey Sherlock Holmes). These are the 'skillmonkey' classes with 6 skill points and each has a unique flavor. Rogue has two more and... and what, really?<br/><br/>If I were in charge of D&D, I'd 86 the Rogue, bring back the Thief, and really emphasize their ability to perform the classic thief skills, something 3.P Rogues have never really done, except their really minor trapfinding ability (which even other classes got).<br/><br/><br/><br/>Spell-throwers... yeah. It's tough because magic is just better than normal stuff. Just like a cannon is better than throwing a rock. If you make the wizard's weaker, it just feels lame, especially if you don't do it in such a way of making it a "low-magic" setting. And if you make everyone else stronger, you get more wuxia/anime and it can ruin the fantasy feel if you don't your dudes throwing Chi blasts everywhere.<br/><br/><br/><br/>