<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=276886.msg13608221#msg13608221">Quote from: TheBlackThrone on 17-10-2017, 18:31:43</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">I was telling Sun Wukong that this is the first JL game in a LONG TIME that didn't kill off Batman or Superman. The killing of both of those heroes is so overdone because GMs are always afraid of the two characters breaking the game when really they just need to find appropriate writers for them. Superman and Batman are only as powerful as their writers and the plot allows them to be. Otherwise, they are not as powerful as canon says they are. Canon just records feats from the multiple comics, novels, animated series, etc. Wally West and Aquaman have both been given god potential at times. It's just the plot.<br/><br/>So if the GM dictates that they aren't going to be that strong for this scenario or plot, then they won't. I can't call Superman a Mary Sue because the Justice League exists. If he was a Mary Sue, then there wouldn't need to be a Justice League because he would be able to handle the world's problems by himself, but he can't. He also is very human in that he has a social life to uphold. Being split between Superman and Clark Kent is what makes him a very interesting character especially when it comes to Lois Lane or any woman he would have affection for as Clark Kent. There's nothing unrealistic about do-gooder characters. People with those personalities exist IRL. The most common complaints that Superman dissers make is really that Superman is too human. No one wants to see a guy with little issues. They want to read about psychos and problem children.<br/><br/>Superman has to deal with the pressure of being the world's icon. One screw up and the entire world will not just be against Superman but all super-powered heroes like if Charles Xavier were to ever side with Magneto. Humanity is always a time bomb waiting to go off and it's very unforgiving. He carries the largest burden out of all the Leaguers because he is the most well-known hero on the planet. If any of the heroes were to slip-up, they would expect him to handle it. But if he slips up that just terrifies the entire world. This at times makes him not the appropriate hero to carryout appropriate justice. Thus, the other Leaguers at times are more appropriate. If there was a way he could get rid of all the villains in a way that was acceptable to humankind and wouldn't condemn him or any other hero to bloodlust since murder apparently becomes easy once you've done it once, then he would. But he can't. Mostly because Capital Punishment does not exist in the DC universe. If it did exist, 99.9% of those schmucks would be dead already unless they are the type of hero that needs a trip through the Phantom Zone for eternity.<br/><br/>But to touch on Clark's human side, because he has to hide who he is, can you imagine if a crime was being committed in front of him. Say, if he was with Lois and then she was being attacked by a super-villain who is supposed to be stronger than Clark. Would Clark break character to save her from a threat that would normally be impossible for a normal man or would he let it happen hoping another hero would come along and save them? He's attracted to Lois, and Lois is attracted to Superman but not him. How to make that work without revealing your identity? Or worst yet, if you are forced to watch every woman you would ever want go with someone else because your identity and her protection is more important. Batman is very familiar with this feeling.<br/><br/>All of these situations makes Superman less of a Mary Sue and more of a complex and interesting character. I can't say it's cliche because Superman was the first to do it. He is one of the oldest comic book characters around.<br/></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br/>Absolutely! What you just described is exactly how Superman should be written. Also, I wasn't denying that real, honest altruism exists in the real world. You're speaking to somebody to whom that actually applies (I'm a volly firefighter IRL.) What I was trying to say is that pure altruism, when blended with god-mode powers, results in crap like this that I read as a kid:<br/><br/><div align="center"><div class="spoiler_container"><div class="spoiler_header" onclick="hideSecond (this);" role="button">Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide</div><div class="spoiler_body">(https://i.redd.it/rtbwnh3vfhcy.jpg)</div></div></div><br/>That was in a hardcover collection I was given for my birthday when I was around seven or eight. In that same collection, there was a situation<em>exactly</em>like the one you just described at the tail end of your post. Superman was disguised as Clark Kent in a warehouse, where there was a thug holding a knife to Lois's throat. There was no drama or difficulties at all, because Supes literally moved so fast that he was able to disable the thug—dressed as Superman—without it looking like Clark had moved a muscle. If I can find the page, I'll add it to the post.<br/><br/>That's the kind of crap that ruined Superman for me. That's why I have a bit of a bias against him.<br/><br/>All that said, I've really liked your approach to the MoS so far. I'm even considering picking up a volume or two for some light reading.