D&D 3.x gutted both the rogue and the Ranger, and Pathfinder didn't treat the rogue a lot better. As far as I know. 4.0 and beyond hasn't altered the class(es) very much from the original gutting either. Ultimately, both systems made spell-throwers the ultimate class and left pretty much everyone else in the dust.<br/><br/>And, out of curiosity, anyone else out there able to do 100+ points of damage per round? If Justin actually hits, he's maxing out at about 30 points.