Fw: Worth a read (if you have time) ,
 The articles below provide excellent commentary on what we are up against. =
 Whether we like it or not history is littered with fallen empires and nati=
ons who have persecuted the Jews.  Israel, unlike us, at least until now, u=
nderstands that it is in a war; a war for it's very survival; a war against=
 those who openly state that they do not consider Israel to have the right =
to even exist.  But we know from the Bible that Israel will always exist an=
d those who help the Jews, God will bless and those who hate the Jews, God =
will punish.  And even though we don't always agree with what Israel does, =
they are our friends, they know how to fight, and they are our allies in th=
is War.
=20
Israel knows they are in a fight for their very existence.  The same enemy =
of the Jews hates America.  They hate America and the West for the very rea=
sons outlined in the article below.  They are and have been openly at war w=
ith us for years.  Every American better understand that now! And if we don=
't have the best intelligence service and the best armed forces in the worl=
d we are going to continue to pay dearly.  Several years before World War T=
wo, MacArthur, while Chief of Staff of the Army, stated that there was noth=
ing more expensive than a cheap army.  We can expand that today to include =
all aspects of national security to include an intelligence apparatus neces=
sary to penetrate enemy organizations.  The additional challenge we face is=
 in curbing the never ending desire for bigger and stronger government at t=
he expense of freedom.  Can we as a people vote in statesmen rather than po=
liticians to fill the ranks of government?
=20
But above and beyond all of this is the fact that the Christian (those who =
believe in Jesus Christ - "faith alone in Christ alone" - for salvation) mu=
st understand that Jesus Christ does control history and no matter what hap=
pens on the historical scene He will take care of us both in life and in de=
ath.    With that said, we need to make sure that as many of these terroris=
ts as possible meet "allah" very soon.
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Drexsmit@aol.com <mailto:Drexsmit@aol.com>=20
To: rgsu49a@email.msn.com <mailto:rgsu49a@email.msn.com> ; JCfirenze@aol.co=
m <mailto:JCfirenze@aol.com> ; IBWriter@aol.com <mailto:IBWriter@aol.com> ;=
 Vegski@aol.com <mailto:Vegski@aol.com> ; eeasum@els.wylelabs.com <mailto:e=
easum@els.wylelabs.com> ; Timothy_Escobar@ml.com <mailto:Timothy_Escobar@ml=
.com> ; REvans6873@aol.com <mailto:REvans6873@aol.com> ; Wfedders@mtsac.edu=
 <mailto:Wfedders@mtsac.edu> ; Sohifriend@webtv.net <mailto:Sohifriend@webt=
v.net> ; ihrke@mindspring.com <mailto:ihrke@mindspring.com> ; jkeeter@hmp.w=
ylelabs.com <mailto:jkeeter@hmp.wylelabs.com> ; vannkenn@yahoo.com <mailto:=
vannkenn@yahoo.com> ; kendallstudio@yahoo.com <mailto:kendallstudio@yahoo.c=
om> ; rlkenda@pacbell.net <mailto:rlkenda@pacbell.net> ; guy@streamtech.com=
 <mailto:guy@streamtech.com> ; llsells@att.net <mailto:llsells@att.net> ; C=
lcrsvp@aol.com <mailto:Clcrsvp@aol.com> ; michelle.r.moore@bankamerica.com =
<mailto:michelle.r.moore@bankamerica.com> ; dansam@attglobal.net <mailto:da=
nsam@attglobal.net> ; prasmuss@mtsac.edu <mailto:prasmuss@mtsac.edu> ; ebs@=
gte.net <mailto:ebs@gte.net> ; gshindo@prodigy.net <mailto:gshindo@prodigy.=
net> ; TONYSPLANS@aol.com <mailto:TONYSPLANS@aol.com> ; Andre.Smith@usoncol=
ogy.com <mailto:Andre.Smith@usoncology.com> ; ADSGTS@aol.com <mailto:ADSGTS=
@aol.com> ; Jaqsmit@aol.com <mailto:Jaqsmit@aol.com> ; cspry@earthlink.com =
<mailto:cspry@earthlink.com> ; kimkaw@yahoo.com <mailto:kimkaw@yahoo.com> ;=
 Dancuer@earthlink.net <mailto:Dancuer@earthlink.net> ; Superangell3@onebox=
.com <mailto:Superangell3@onebox.com> ; bwheelock@hotmail.com <mailto:bwhee=
lock@hotmail.com> ; revimar@earthlink.net <mailto:revimar@earthlink.net> ; =
dick.wright@aepi.army.mil <mailto:dick.wright@aepi.army.mil>=20
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:10 AM
Subject: Worth a read (if you have time)

An interesting debate by folks that know far more that I about middle east =
stuff.  M/ Petit and Charlie are both former analysts with one of our secur=
ity organizations and offer interesting insights.  If you are in the mood, =
worth a read (start on the bottom article)...DLS=20
 =20


Comments by M/ Petit:=20
In response to several articles and comments I have received:=20

Regarding the original article, I disagree with one of the points.   Jews w=
ere originally treated decently for a while within Islam.  As was women, un=
til the Arabs encountered the tradition of purdah in India. Mohammed incorp=
orated the Jewish prophets and have Jesus as one of  his prophets.=20

As to comments that our relationship with Israel is the basis of this confl=
ict, I disagree.   There is a perceived cultural divide on the part of the =
fanatical Muslims.  The West is more representative of the devil's evil way=
s.  We are to them to the pagans that Christian missionaries sought to conv=
ert.  However, conversion to Islam is usually done under the sword.  And it=
 goes deeper.  We have defeated the Islamic forces when we have engaged the=
m.  And the Israelis have also done so.  The defeats have been so thorough =
as to be humiliating.    =20

Israel must perceive itself as being independent.  Politically their leader=
 never could accept direct orders from another state.  But, note, one of th=
e first countries to offer sympathy and support was Israel.  =20
Note one thing.  Arabs started the slave trade.  Swahili is the language of=
 the Arab slave traders with their African business partners.  African Musl=
ims were buried in a separate section in a Muslim cemetery.  Farrakan and h=
is followers wake up.=20

Pakistan has declared it would support the US with permitting overhead flig=
hts.  The Afghanis are flooding out of their country.  The Afghan leaders a=
re announcing that they are safe, don't worry.  The bottom line is that eve=
n the Afghanis under the Taliban know who will win.=20
We have won the first skirmish in the War Against Terrorists.=20

M/Petit=20

-ubject: Re: Article on the Cause of the Attack=20

Interesting historical presentation - good food for thought - I also refer =
you to page A-28 of the 15 September 2001 Washington Post.=20

Bush requests Shaon get on with talks with Arafat - Sharon says shove it up=
 your nose - is this a positive thinking member of the western world?  We s=
end $4B a year to Israel to protect them as a nation and assist in keeping =
them in the "modern" world - It never hurts to talk to your adversaries -  =
even if you talk while fighting.  The current disaster poses an opportunity=
 for both friends and allies to understand U.S. power.=20

Thoughts?=20

  <http://www.nationalreview.com/images/page_2001_derbyshire-print.gif>

Hesperophobia=20
On blaming the Jews.=20
Mr. Derbyshire is also an NR contributing editor=20
September 13, 2001 5:00 p.m.=20

 =20
Back in 1982 there were some horrible massacres at two Palestinian refugee =
camps in Lebanon. Christian Lebanese Arabs actually did the killing; but th=
e Israeli army was in the neighborhood, and was responsible, at some theore=
tical level, for keeping the peace in the zone that included the camps. Bec=
ause of this, the Israelis took much of the brunt of the world's outrage at=
 the killings. Commenting on these events, the Israeli Prime Minister, Mena=
chem Begin, remarked in disgust: "Goyim kill goyim, and they blame the Jews=
!"=20
I've been getting the same feeling from some of my e-mail. The fundamental =
reason America is under attack by Arab terrorists, several dozen people wan=
t me to know, is that the U.S. supports Israel. And the only reason we do t=
hat, several of them have said, or hinted, is because of the political powe=
r of the Jewish lobby here in the U.S.A. A few of my correspondents have ex=
pressed themselves more ... bluntly than that. Put it this way: While I hav=
e not yet encountered the word "bloodsuckers" (perhaps my readership isn't =
"diverse" enough), some of this stuff comes pretty close - though I should =
say in fairness, most is argued on cold national-interest grounds. At any r=
ate, a lot of people feel that the mass killing of Americans by Arab terror=
ists is all the fault of Israel and those American politicians who, for low=
 and disreputable motives, or from sheer blindness to America's true ideals=
 and interests, support her. Goyim kill goyim, and they blame the Jews.=20
Setting aside the statistical certainty that some of the dead Americans are=
 Jewish (as, in high statistical probability, some were of Arab origins), a=
nd at the risk of yet more ill-tempered or abusive e-mails, I am going to d=
eclare that I don't think these recent outrages can be blamed on the Jews, =
nor even on pro-Israel American politicians. The root phenomenon is not Ame=
rican involvement in Middle Eastern affairs: The root phenomenon is hespero=
phobia.=20
This word was coined by the political scientist Robert Conquest. Its roots =
are the Greek words hesperos, which means "the west" and phobos, which mean=
s "fear," but which when used as an English suffix can also carry the meani=
ng "hate." Hesperophobia is fear or hatred of the West. [While I'm in the c=
lassical stuff, by the way, I committed a breach of good manners in my last=
 posting by inserting a Latin tag without translation. I am sorry. Oderint =
dum metuant means "Let them hate us, so long as they fear us." Seneca rebuk=
ed Cicero for saying it, though it seems to have been current among educate=
d late-republican Romans.]=20
Here is the news: A lot of people out there hate us. The name "Durban" mean=
 anything? In China, in India, in Pakistan, in Indonesia and Malaysia, in A=
frica, and in the Arab countries, European civilization - the West - is wid=
ely hated. Matter of fact, quite a lot of Europeans and Americans hate it, =
too, as you will know if you spend much time on college campuses.=20
I can't see any strong reason for believing that if the state of Israel wer=
e to disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow, hesperophobia would dis=
appear with it. Not even just Arab hesperophobia would decline. A common wo=
rd for Europeans in the Arabic language is feringji, from "Frank," i.e. cru=
sader. Arabs don't hate us because we support Israel. They hate us because =
we humiliated them, showed up the gross inferiority of their culture. To th=
em, and similarly humiliated peoples, we are the other, detested and feared=
 in a way we can barely understand. Things got really bad in the 19th centu=
ry. When European society achieved industrial lift-off, Europeans were sudd=
enly buzzing all over the world like a swarm of bees. They encountered thes=
e other cultures, that had been vegetating in a quiet conviction of their o=
wn superiority for centuries (or in the case of the Chinese, millennia). Wh=
en these encounters occurred, the encountered culture collapsed in a cloud =
of dust. Some of them, like the Turks, managed to reconstitute themselves a=
s more or less modern nations; others, like the Arabs and the Chinese, are =
still struggling with the trauma of that encounter. Neither the Arabs nor t=
he Chinese, for example, have yet been able to attain rational, constitutio=
nal government. For a devastating look at the paleolithic condition of poli=
tics and society in the Arab world, I strongly recommend my colleague David=
 Pryce-Jones's book, The Closed Circle <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A=
SIN/0060981032/qid=3D1000382845/sr=3D1-12/ref=3Dsc_b_12/103-0202540-1179008=
/nationalreviewon>.=20

The 1991 Gulf War showed how little has changed since those first encounter=
s. Here were the armies of the West: swift, deadly, efficient, equipped and=
 organized, under the command of elected civilians at the head of a robust =
and elaborate constitutional structure. And here were the Arabs: a shamblin=
g, ill-nourished, shoeless rabble, led by a mad gangster-despot. (That was =
their Arabs. There were also, of course, our Arabs - the Kuwaitis and Saudi=
s, cowering in their plush-lined air-conditioned bunkers being waited on by=
 their Filipino servants while we did their fighting for them.) Final body =
counts: the West, 134 dead, the Arabs, 20,000 or more. The superiority of o=
ne culture over another has not been so starkly demonstrated since a handfu=
l of British wooden ships, at the end of ten-thousand-mile lines of communi=
cations, brought the Celestial Empire to its knees 150 years earlier. The C=
hinese are still mad about that: They are still making angry, bitter movies=
 about the Opium Wars. A hundred and 50 years from now, the Arabs will not =
have forgotten the Gulf War.=20
If you haven't spent some time in its company, the depth, and bitterness of=
 hesperophobia in these cultures is hard to imagine. As Thomas Friedman poi=
nts out in today's New York Times, Palestinian suicide bombers do not targe=
t yeshivas, synagogues, or religious settlements. They go for shopping mall=
s or Sbarro's outlets. Sure, they hate the Jews, but they hate the West as =
much, or more.=20
Israel is not a cause of any of this, except to the degree that Israeli cul=
ture is essentially Western. If the present state of Israel were inhabited =
by Christian Lithuanians or Frenchmen, the hatred would be nearly as intens=
e. Nearly, not completely: Hatred of the Jews has been built into Arab-Mosl=
em culture since the time of Mohammed. There is a tale you will hear from A=
rab apologists that the Jews were contented and well treated in the old Ara=
b-Moslem empires. This is nonsense: More often than not, they were treated =
like swine. For a true account, read Joan Peters's From Time Immemorial <ht=
tp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0963624202/qid=3D1000384153/sr=3D1-1/r=
ef=3Dsc_b_1/103-0202540-1179008/nationalreviewon>, or Gil Carl Alroy Behind=
 the Middle East Crisis</a>. From the Arab point of view, Israel, or any We=
stern state on "Arab land," is an outrage, an illegitimate creation, a crus=
ader state. The fact that the Jews had a wealthy and powerful nation on tha=
t land three thousand years ago counts for nothing. Israel is, from the poi=
nt of view of most Arabs, an alien graft that must not be allowed to "take.=
" It is a reminder of what can barely be thought of without acute psychic p=
ain: the squalid, hopeless, irredeemable inferiority of one's own culture b=
y comparison with another.=20
So, so, so, is this any of America's business? What are we doing, meddling =
in the Middle East? Where is our interest? Well, U.S. politicians must spea=
k for themselves, but if I had any position of authority in any Western nat=
ion, I would be urging full support for Israel, and I am not Jewish. (Follo=
wing my Passover column <http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshir=
e041001.shtml>, in fact, a lot of NRO readers, along with at least one ex-e=
ditor of The New Republic, believe I am an anti-Semite.) It's a matter of c=
ultural solidarity. We of the West must hang together, or else we shall han=
g separately. American isolationists simply do not understand how much we a=
re hated in other places.=20
What, after all, does the Buchananite program offer us, if carried through?=
 We have no troops in Israel to be withdrawn. If we withdraw our aid, the I=
sraelis will be less able to defend themselves against the Arabs. Should we=
 just let the free market take over, U.S. arms manufacturers selling weapon=
s to them cash on the nail? Apparently not: Several of my correspondents ha=
ve explained to me that what so enrages the Arabs is the sight of their peo=
ple being killed "by American weapons." Oh. No weapons, then (and presumabl=
y we should try to repatriate the ones they already have - lots of luck wit=
h that, guys). But if we don't arm the Israelis, who will? While other hesp=
erophobic countries - China, for example - are gleefully arming the Arabs a=
nd other Israel-haters like Iran, and pocketing the profits?=20
And the end of it all will be ... what? Inevitably, without our support, it=
 will be the destruction of Israel. They are so few, and the Arabs so many.=
 The Arabs will overwhelm that tiny state, and there will be such an orgy o=
f massacre as has not been seen since the Rape of Nanking. And we shall be =
doing ... what? Watching it on our TVs, with a six-pack and a bucket of Nac=
ho chips in hand? That's the Buchananite vision? If so, it is a vision of c=
owards and fools, and I want no part of it.=20
Israel's culture is ours. She is part of the West. If she goes down, we hav=
e suffered a defeat, and the howling, jeering forces of barbarism have won =
a victory. You don't have to be Zionist, nor even Jewish, to support Israel=
. You don't have to be in the pocket of the Israeli congressional lobbies, =
or a suck-up to "powerful pro-Zionist interests." You don't have to pretend=
 not to notice the occasional follies and cruelties of Israeli policy. You =
don't have to forget about the U.S.S. Liberty or Jonathan Pollard. You just=
 have to think straight. You just have to understand that the war between c=
ivilization and barbarism is being fought today just as it was fought at Ch=
alons and Tours, at the gates of Kiev and Vienna, by the hoplites at Marath=
on and the legions on the Rhine. It is, as you have heard a thousand times,=
 this past few days, a war; and the thing about war is, you have to take si=
des, and close your eyes to your allies' imperfections for the duration. Th=
ere isn't any choice. What happened this week was not, or not only, an act =
of anti-Americanism, anti-Israelism, or anti-Semitism. It was in part all t=
hose things: but more than anything else, it was an act of hesperophobia.=
=20
###=20
wknebel@finsvcs.com, vbearden@swbell.net, 