Statisticians Find They Can Agree: It’s Time to Stop Misusing P-Values
This is one of the best conversation threads I&#x27;ve ever seen on HN. It&#x27;s both polite and informative.<p>I want to toss in my own thoughts here.<p>Since I&#x27;ve spent the vast majority of my tech career in the Market Research industry (hello, bias!), I&#x27;m tempted to say that one of the most frequent intersections between statistical science and business decisions happens in that world.<p>Product testing, shopper marketing, A&#x2F;B testing . . . these are pretty common fare these days. But I feel like the MR people are sort of their own worst enemy in many cases.<p>It&#x27;s a fairly recent development that MR people are even allowed a seat at the table for major product or business decisions. And when the data nerds show up at the meeting, we have to make human communication decisions that are difficult.<p>I can&#x27;t show up at the C-suite and lecture company executives about the finer points of statistical philosophy. When I&#x27;m presenting findings to stake-holders, it&#x27;s my job to abstract the details and present something that makes a coherent case for a decision, based on the data we have available.<p>It is sinfully attractive to go tell your boss&#x27;s boss&#x27;s boss that we have a threshold--a number we can point to. If this number turns out to be smaller than .05, this project is a go.<p>Three months later, you go back to that boss and tell him the number came back and it was .0499999. The boss says, &quot;Okay, go!&quot; And then you are all, &quot;Wait, wait, wait. Hang on a second. Let&#x27;s talk about this.&quot;<p>My god, what have I done?<p>The practical reality of the intersection of statistics and business is a harsh one. We have to do better. In terms of leaky abstractions, the communication of data science to business decision makers is quite possibly the leaky-est of all.<p>Why is it so leaky? I have two points about this.<p>1) Statistics is one of the most existentially depressing fields of study. There is no acceptance; there is no love; there is nothing positive about it. Ever.<p>Statistics is always about rejection and failure. We never accept or affirm a hypothesis. We only ever reject the null hypothesis or we fail to reject it. That&#x27;s it.<p>2) In business, we tend to be very very sloppy about formulating our hypotheses. Sometimes we don&#x27;t even really think about them at all.<p>Take a common case for market research. New product testing. We do a rep sample with a decent size (say, 1800 potential product buyers) and we randomly show five different products, one of which is the product the person already owns&#x2F;uses (because that&#x27;s called control &#x2F;s). The other 4 products are variations on a theme with different attributes.<p>What&#x27;s the null hypothesis here? Does it ever get discussed?<p>What&#x27;s the alternative hypothesis?<p>The implicit and never-talked-about null is that all things being equal, there is no difference between the distribution of purchase likelihood among all products. The alternative is that there is a real difference on a scale of likely to purchase.<p>The implicit and intuitive assumption is that there is something about that feature set that drives the difference. (I&#x27;m looking at you, Max Diff)<p>But that&#x27;s not real. It&#x27;s not a part of the test. The only test you can do in that situation is to check if those aggregate distributions are different from each other. The real null is that they are the same, and the alternative is that they are different.<p>All you can do with statistics is tell if two distributions are isomorphic.<p>Now, who wants to try to explain any of that to your CEO? No one does. Your CEO doesn&#x27;t want it, you don&#x27;t want it, your girlfriend doesn&#x27;t want it. No one wants it.<p>So we try to abstract, and I feel like we mostly fail at doing a good job of that.<p>This is getting really long, and I don&#x27;t want to rant. So to finish up, an idea for more effective uses of data science as it interacts with the business world:<p>I agree, let&#x27;s stop talking about p values. Let&#x27;s work harder and funnel the results of those MR studies into practical models of the business&#x27; future. Let&#x27;s take the research and pipe it into Bayesian expected value models.<p>Let&#x27;s stop showing stacked bar charts to execs and expecting them to make good decisions based on weak evidence we got from hypotheses we didn&#x27;t really think about in the first place.<p>Some of this might come across as a rant. I hope it is not taken that way. This is a real problem that I&#x27;ve been thinking about for a long time. And I don&#x27;t mean to step on anyone&#x27;s toes. I have certainly committed many of the data sins that I&#x27;m deriding above.<p>Edited to add:<p>The real workings of statistics are unintuitive. I&#x27;m not saying that they are wrong. But in working with people for years now, I understand the confusion. It&#x27;s a psychological problem. Hypotheses are either not really well though out or not considered in an organized way, in my experience.<p>A hypothesis is not concrete in many practical cases. It&#x27;s a thought. An idea, perhaps. It&#x27;s often a thing that floats around in your mind, or maybe you paid some lip service and tossed it into your note-taking app.<p>Data seem much more real. You download a few gigabytes of data and start working on it. It&#x27;s quite easy to get confused.<p>I have real data! This is tangible stuff. Thinking of things properly and evaluating the probability of your data given the hypothesis is <i>hard</i>. Your data seems much more concrete. These are real people answering real questions about X.<p>Even for people who are really hell-bent on statistical rigor, this is a challenge.