The Secret to Ribs Is Already in the Kitchen: The Oven (2010)
This thread looks MUCH better informed on BBQ than the OP.<p>&quot;Collagen,&quot; that is, melting it -- from all I could tell, yup -- that&#x27;s the true <i>secret</i> to cooking a wide range of meats.<p>Yup, from the investigations I did on the Internet, the secret number is 160 F; first cut, for just one number, that&#x27;s the temperature at which collagen melts.<p>The next secret is that the muscle fibers are always tender.  That is, if meat is tough, the cause is that the collagen has not yet been melted out.<p>Next secret is, if get the muscle fibers much over 160 F for too long, then the proteins change, expel their water, and become dry and brittle.  No additional cooking will fix that.  You have ruined meat.<p>For years I read dreamy recipes from the NYT, Julia Child, Jacques Pepin, etc. about delicious, lovable, traditional beef stew from France, Italy, etc., please the family, the neighbors, guests, have a great dish for pot luck dinners, have everyone in the family gathering around with family bonding, etc., and tried and tried and tried, with lots of garlic, onions, carrots, beef stock, red wine, etc., everything done more carefully than I worked in college chemistry lab, and the results were always disaster.  Always.  That went on off and on for years.  Lots of wasted time, money, effort, and groceries, and lots of ruined meat.<p>Why?  Never, not once, ever, did any of those dreamy sources mention meat temperature.  Not once.  With iron determination, feet locked deep in reinforced concrete, the authors, apparently on penalty of slow torture or being stewed themselves, ever, Ever, EVER let themselves mention meat temperature of 160 F and melting collagen.<p>From those years of frustration and failure, I still resent what the NYT, Child, Pepin wrote.  I&#x27;m no longer explosively mad, boiling oil mad, or just boiling mad, but I&#x27;m still simmering.  This thread alone is MUCH better.  So, we&#x27;re talking (A) the highly self-esteemed NYT and some high end book publishing houses and (B) some largely anonymous HN readers.  And, may I have the envelope please?  And the winner, by huge margins, on all points, is HN!<p>Finally I learned on the Internet from some sites with some people quite serious about good BBQ.  Gee, they were serious enough to use thermometers!  In the meat itself, not just the hot air under some metal dome 16 inches above the meat, not just the wall of the oven!  And they fully understood melting collagen!<p>The writers were famous?  Nope.  Well informed?  YUP!<p>But, now the NYT has improved, right?<p>Let&#x27;s see:  The OP has some thing about 135 F for many hours.  Hmm ....  Last I heard, we want 145+ F for food safety.  Uh, I&#x27;d suggest, that stuff that was at 135 F for some hours, try to take the family yacht about 200 miles east of Boston, weight the stuff down with lead, and, in the dark, without the EPA around, drop it overboard.  Hope it doesn&#x27;t kill off the worms three miles down.  Uh, maybe wrap that meat with a copy of the NYT?<p>Generally, my opinion about the NYT and the cookbook publishers is that they are interested in vicarious escapist fantasy emotional experience entertainment (VEFEEE) with little connection with reality, facts, times, temperatures, weights, volumes, pH, information, instruction, or actual good cooking results.  E.g., for decades they wouldn&#x27;t tell me about 160 F and collagen, and now they are saying something about 135 F.  Did I hear that the NYT is going out of business?  Maybe I heard some such thing.<p>But, I know; I know; the OP is fine if want to imagine a really great backyard party, with 20 guests, some A-listers, a couple of Ferrari cars on the grass, lots of good beer, heck, Chardonnay, pass around a football, some hoops, etc.  That&#x27;s all on the porch of a Manhattan high rise apartment building?<p>Suggestion:  NYT people, if you want good BBQ, order carryout!  Or, gee, even have some via FedEx from Memphis!<p>Next, we might consider Maillard browning?  And especially for ribs, smoke rings?<p>BBQ is good, not just a little good but really good.  Fancy?  No.  Good? Darned right.  Why?  As in<p>Gray Kunz and
Peter Kaminsky,
<i>The Elements of Taste</i>,
ISBN 0-316-60874-2,
Little, Brown and Company,
Boston,
2001.<p>BBQ hits hard on all of sweet, sour, salty, hot (as in pepper), and onion and garlic.<p>I apologize here because due to working on my startup I&#x27;m temporarily out of cooking for a hobby.  I hope to return.  Everything I posted here is from years ago.  But, when I return I will have this thread as additional information!