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Let's Talk Technicolor: 2-Strip, 3-Strip, Everyone Strip
Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EVOLVIST, May 3, 2022.
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Los Angeles CA, USA
EVOLVIST said: ↑
Giant (1956) - WarnerColor - Wow, the state of this film was not worth putting it out in UHD. I've never seen so many dupes and soft shots in one film before. It makes Marnie (1964) look like a Jacob van Loo painting. Of course I sit pretty close to the screen, so maybe if you're sitting on the moon with Stanley Kubrick, then this might look good from a longer distance. As-is, if every restorative team has an achilles heel, WBs would be the way that they manipulate opticals and dupes. I don't like their technique at all.
Thinking about it, they release Giant when Gone With the Wind, The Adventures of Robin Hood, and Ben Hur (1959) are in 4K purgatory.
Well that's a bummer. Haven't opened mine yet.. I hate WarnerColor and I hate the grainy look of opticals when they are down 5 generations but maybe that's all WB had left. Hard to say.. Still, where are GWTW, etc.? You're right, bring 'em on..
Steve Hoffman, Jun 25, 2022
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EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter
Planet Houston, Tejas
Uglyversal said: ↑
I thought those screenshots I saw were a bad omen and I am glad I've cancelled my preorder. It is a shame you don't get a lot of information on why a movie that is relatively newer looks worse than much earlier works like Wizard. I don't think Gone with the wind will look stunning sharpness wise but that one I will get for sure unless it gets sanitized, I am sure you will have to sit through half an hour of forced warnings on how the views of studio are not represented by the movie.
Someone pointed out on Blu-Ray.com that Giant got its makeover because Spielberg, Scorsese, and George Stevens, Jr., bankrolled the majority of the restoration. I pointed out, in turn, then I hope that they don't mind operating in the red, because early indications is that's where Giant is heading. But maybe not. Perhaps it will do well.
I think for Giant, it was so popular, that the OG negs were just ate up from being printed off of, time and time again, without the same preservation consideration that The Wizard of Oz was afforded. The Wizard of Oz could have easily gone down the same path, but it didn't.
I think Gone with the Wind will look stunning in 4K HDR, primarily because if you look at the 8K (I've also read 4K) scan that made up the Blu-ray, there's nary a flaw on it. I don't think there's anything to sanatize nor digitally manipulate in a way that looks like digital tomfoolery. Ditto for Robin Hood and Ben Hur (1959). I mention those titles because I would think those would be the next obvious choices for WB. Oh, and North by Northwest (1959), all of which have great OG negatives.
EVOLVIST, Jun 25, 2022
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mBen989 Forum Resident
How to describe the problems with Giant? Well, let's describe how one did a basic optical effect way back when.
We want Scene A to dissolve into Scene B and it's a ten second dissolve (that's 15 feet of film, 240 frames)
We can put Dissolve A and Dissolve B back to back on the same piece of film so it's created during printing.
We can put Dissolve A and Dissolve B on separate reels of film but still create the dissolve during printing.
Or we could generate Dissolve A/B optically then drop in the resulting dupe element in the original camera negative. Of course depending on the lab, both shots might have to be printed on the dupe.
mBen989, Jun 25, 2022
GIANT has a great music score though, one of D. T.'s best. I remember restoring the entire score in 1993 for WB from the session reels. The bitch was syncing the chorus to the orchestra. Sigh.
At any rate, Filmed in Marfa, TX, summer of 1955. I never much liked the movie, personally but I haven't seen it since that time..
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If only all restorations looked like Lawrence of Arabia, especially with all of the work they put into such laborious restoration.
Yes, I'm watching Lawrence again tonight. I had to wash the stink of Giant out of my eyes.
You know what, and tomorrow night, I'm likely to watch the 4K Wizard of Oz once more. I'm in that mood to affirm again how 4K can make an older movie right again.
Bob Casner said: ↑
I'm still thinking we're good for ROBIN HOOD 4K next year: Warner seems to be keen on commemorating anniversaries, and 2023 is its 75th.
85th Anniversary in 2023. Gone with the Wind has its 85th anniversary in 2024.
But I realize that you're only trying to make all of us 10 years younger. Thanks for that!
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Bob Casner Senior Member
Venice, California
Uh-oh, and my mother was a High School MATH teacher! I'm properly ashamed of myself!
Bob Casner, Jun 26, 2022
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Apache (1954) ~ The only three-strip Technicolor film with Charles Bronson. I haven't seen it. Do y'all know if it's any good?
Okay, let me try this again, after DOUBLE CHECKING my arithmetic (sigh) with an UPDATE at the end:
WIZARD OF OZ (1939) 4K 80th Anniversary (released 10/29/19)
SINGIN' IN THE RAIN (1952) 4K 70th Anniversary (released 4/26/22)
Yesterday's post on thedigitalbits site says right at the end "We're expecting … [ also other titles] CASABLANCA 80th Anniversary Edition to drop in 4K from WB in November as well." I've found them to have a pretty good track record for "scoops" re: release dates, whether "ballpark" or specific month and day.
I can't help thinking this bodes well for an ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD (1938) 85th Anniversary 4K Edition next year!
Manapua Forum Resident
I must say, a good restoration, whether 4K or 1080 BR can transform a so-so movie experience to a riveting one. Case in point - 2001: A Space Odyssey. Yup, I never could sit all the way through this one and believe me, I've tried multiple times over the last 50+ years. Always found the pacing too glacial. Well, I watched the 4K last night and damn! I actually appreciated the silent, slooow sequences as it allowed me to immerse myself in the visuals like never before. Fact is, I'm gonna watch it again real soon.
Manapua, Jun 29, 2022
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Manapua said: ↑
Same thing for me, same movie. Of course I'm so much older now, the film makes more sense to me..
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So I took a look at the 4K of GIANT.
First, the film has optical problems which happen when the optical printed matter continues to the end of the shot and doesn't just happen during a dissolve or fade. There is no negative for the entire long section. That sucks!
Second, WHAT THE **** HAPPENED TO THE SOUNDTRACK???? I worked on this phucker, I know what it should sound like. Here is what I think happened. Someone, down the line at the WB sound dept, took the original mono print master mag and played it back incorrectly, or they combined the mono channel while playing back on stereo heads (L+R) thereby throwing the entire thing out of phase for the entire movie! There is no midrange, just a "squeezed" feeling like your ears are being turned inside out. Same as mastering a full track mono recording on a stereo tape recorder and then combining the channels using the "mono" button on the console thereby throwing out out of phase. For a song, that sucks but FOR AN ENTIRE MOVIE????
What a sh**show.
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Anyone here have Grease 4K? It's on sale at Amazon for 11.99 and while comments seem to be generally unfavorable, I feel at this price I have to grab it. What say you? Is the BR a better way to go?
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Steve Hoffman said: ↑
Someone, down the line at the WB sound dept, took the original mono print master mag and played it back incorrectly, or they combined the mono channel while playing back on stereo heads (L+R) thereby throwing the entire thing out of phase for the entire movie!
I bet that's it. That happens far too often than it should when transferring mono. I've purchased CD's like that only to find the mono out of phase (I'm sure we all have).
I, too, thought the sound was wonky. Then I played it through headphones to double-check what I was hearing. It sounded worse through cans. That's a big cock-up from WB.
On a semi-related note, I've actually been enjoying listening to movie audio through headphones recently. I know it's not color, but the Pyscho (1960) mono audio really got me going. That Bernard Hermann score is so well balanced.
Yes! Get the BD. The 4K is DNR city. It sucks, I know. It's not like they had a bad negative to work with, either.
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Yeah, that's what most of the posters say. Actually, I think I already have the older BR (yeah, I know I have too many if I can't remember). Anyways, that sucks but thanks for the input.
4K Ultra HD: "The Final Countdown." Possibly one of the worst movies ever made. So bad, I love it to death. Filmed on the U. S. S. Nimitz in 1979, it is just dreadful but if you love the US Navy and their machines, this is THE movie to get.
The color is fine, soundtrack, nicely mixed, theme music great, acting terrible, fashion and haircuts terrible, script terrible, first unit photography terrible (some scenes are even out of focus), second unit photography wonderful, USS Nimitz wonderful, the dog acting was wonderful, Katharine Ross always wonderful.
Like a TV movie that got a break from the Navy to film on the big boat, this movie is really crazy. But, I love it and my late uncle loved it. He loved big Navy boats.
If you like the Nimitz (before that horrible accident in 1981) you'll need this film. Packaging is first rate, nice hologram on slipcase. Extra disk of just the great score.
At any rate, so crappy I'm going to watch it again and again!
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jjh1959 Forum Resident
View attachment 423869 4K Ultra HD: "The Final Countdown." Possibly one of the worst movies ever made. So bad, I love it to death. Filmed on the U. S. S. Nimitz in 1979, it is just dreadful but if you love the US Navy and their machines, this is THE movie to get.
Yeah I've got this and love it too. Always a sucker for a time-travel movie and Pearl Harbor.
jjh1959, Jun 29, 2022
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I love crappy but endlessly watchable films, too and when they're given a great restoration, well that's just icing on an ooey-gooey cake. I only saw this b-movie in the early 60s in b&w so when this restoration was done a couple of years ago I was surprised it was actually shot in color. The picture quality is better than this YT upload shows.
Dinosaurus!
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Man, that is so choice in all the wrong ways! I want it! Cinemascope. Filmed on Eastman. Good saturation and contrast. It reads fully restored from a 4K scan in the reviews.
Nice! I'm going to put that in my KL wishlist.
Jayson Wall Forum Resident
Per the Warner Brothers press release on Giant:
The audio was sourced primarily from a 1995 protection copy of the Original Magnetic Mono soundtrack. The picture and audio restoration was completed by Warner Bros. Post Production Creative Services: Motion Picture Imaging and Post Production Sound.
GIANT 4K Release Details | Seat42F
Jayson Wall, Jun 29, 2022
Jayson Wall said: ↑
I can forgive the picture, that cannot be helped, but not the sound. That COULD be helped. At very worst, the optical soundtrack off an old print would have been a much better choice. At least our ears wouldn't be folded inside out!
If you're going to buy it on Blu, make sure it has the 4k transfer since it also uses the original sound mix.
There's no way I can excuse that PQ. The achilles heel of WB/WAC is how they handle opticals. They have a house-look that I don't like at all, but maybe that's just my aesthetic preference.
Anyway, I'm done grousing about Giant. There are tons of other WB titles that should look 10Xs better, in HD or UHD. I'm a buyer because they usually do such an outstanding job. Most of their three-strip work is second to none, as well as the majority of their B&W work.
"Where The Boys Are" Blu-ray, got it (thanks Luke) and watched today. Nicely done all the way around. Good color, good widescreen picture, not overscrubbed, good (remixed from 35mm mag) mono soundtrack.
One of the first movies to talk about teens and sex before a wedding ring, also rape and everything else while still keeping it (for the most part) light and entertaining. Not an easy path to take. Very impressive cast, all put together by movie legend Joe Pasternak.
I remember watching this on TV as a kid and it actually had a strong influence on my young brain on how to treat girls nicely. Sort of a "how to" and "how to NOT."
At any rate, good seeing it again after so many years; the best of all of the "coming of age" movies, I think..
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