DDLC Reference LIbrary
the game was only the start …
Transcript 19
See end of this transcript to see why we were STEAMED
orian34 has Doki Doki Literature Club 18 Feb @ 11:51pm
Indeed. I'm not sure about the physical drug part, but that could definitively a mental one… Stare at the abyss and…
#973 = 1061
Da ninja has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 2:03am
Originally posted by Dearlaice Gortaigh:
Ok everyone!
Here comes another theory that, in my humble opinion, is pretty nice and gives the game a new point of view ( yet another one…)
The Third Eye. If we think about it, what immediately comes to our minds is something like this:
An unknown force that comes from a mysterious source that allows the subject to know the future and act accordingly to accomplish its objectives at the cost of both driving it crazy and increasing drastically its sadism.
But I've been thinking. Does the game, or even PL, actually say at any time that it's a "force"? We take that for granted since it feels nice and fits the atmosphere but what if the Third Eye is actually a drug?
A drug that instead of making you know the future, it rises the subjects mental capabilities ( as you may know, humans use a very low % of their brain capacity) and with such mental power the subject can predict in a very reliable way (like seeing the future) what will happen depending on what it does/happens.
The side effects of using such a drug are the same as the aforementioned: blood-lust, delirium… And if you want to go a step further you can even quote PL's physical effects: Twitching; vocal tics; biting; epiphora; vomiting; screaming; harm to examiner;
harm to self; misplaced laughter
Of course, you might be thinking now: "Hey, but what about Monika's Her Third Eye is drawing me closer from Yuri's last poem?" or " PL's report says stuff like Third Eye Activation Test and Third Eye Suppression Test"
I know that those quotes are not very "drug-like" and feel more like they're hinting an uncanny power… But what if Monika's quote is a reference to her drug addiction or blood-lust? She may be suffering the consequences of not having enough of it and needs more or she's under the effects of it and needs to vent off. That would explain why she's so focused on getting rid of Yuri. Not only to get "closer" to the MC but also to find relief/satisfaction.
About PL's report, well, the drug probably makes the subject allucinate or suffer a lot stress. Maybe, the "supression" and "activation" are a reference to those. "Activation" being a reference to activate its effects ( Always being at 100% can damage anything seriosuly. Think of it as the CPU of your computer) and "supression" being reference to either support the stress/allucinations or being able to cut off its effects at anytime.
Moreover, if we consider the MC as Monika herself and since Monika is under the effects of the drug, that would explain some of the "glitches" we see. Namely, the "meat" filter when Monika talks to us.
Pretty crazy right? But somehow ,it fits the "human experimentation" topic more than the force, which is a little bit far-fetched "scientifically" speaking.
Anyway, I'm really amazed how things about this game can change so quickly, don't you think? Ahaha
I like it. I always thought of Monika as being the one with the thrid eye.
Originally posted by orian34:
Like the Nietzche quote. A fan made ARG had that quote too. I feel like Monika follows Nietzchen logic and philosophy to a degree.
🅱️illy Mays has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 5:11am
Btw, I shouldn't really post it here… I should do a new thread but there are too many threads already…
Anyway, here it goes:
I've seen the piano theories that people have commented in the DDLC forum here in Steam.
If you haven't you should check them since they're actually pretty interesting and they're too long to resume here ( and I'm too lazy )
I've been thinking that it MIGHT , and I insist, MIGHT be a Monika's joke.
Well I think that she's not actually practising piano , but practising PYTHON .
This game was made with python right? Well, Monika is practising python so she won't mess up the game when editing the files and scripts
Also she says that she will show the player her "song" when she's ready, meaning that she will modify the game when she's more confident about it so she won't destroy anything accidentally.
The evolution of the "piano classes"
In the first act she practices for the second act and "messes up" Sayori to commit suicide. Maybe she just added the suicide in the script , forced her to do so or "augmented" her depression. Anyway, her objective was to get rid of Sayori but she saw that it was easier to delete her and start over:
Oh jeez…I didn't break anything, did I? Hold on a sec, I can probably fix this…I think…
Actually, you know what? This would probably be a lot easier if I just deleted her. She's the one who's making this so difficult. Ahaha! Well, here's goes nothing.
In the second act she glitches the game but manages to modify the girls up to a point. She can "control" Natsuki ( deleting her memory * Completely* and making her say things she doesn't want to) and also "messes up" Yuri's obsessive and unbalanced personality to
scare you off. Again, she maybe "increased" her obsession or modified her script. In the end, she saw that it was going to end like Sayori. So when she also commited suicide ( she knew she was going to do so *have a nice weekend*) , she decided to delete EVERYTHING because she was feeling more confident with her " piano" skills
In the third act she has total control of the game now . She can do whatever she wants (save/load control…) Eventhough, there are some parts of the game completely broken, such as the poem maker functionality
In the fourth and final act, although she is deleted and no longer in a character file, she still is in the game. She is in the python scripts and can still modify the game one last time to delete all of it and to stop the cycle because, apparently, the President of the Literature Club has the ability to know that they're just scripts and there's a whole world beyond their own limitations.
So, what do you think guys?
Interesting?
Stupid?
Should have I been sober while writing this?
Let me know what you think and thanks for reading this far!
[Steamed]
It's a filtration of the piano from nintendo labo
Showing 961-975 of 1,023 comments
kwhero has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 5:28am
I never liked that "we only use 10% of our brains" myth. Nearly all of the brain is used unconsciously, but we only have control of a small amount of it. And if we did have control, it would be agonizingly stressful to have to think about every process in your body that's normally automatic. Still, if we could control that sort of thing, it would leave options to bypass some safety precautions and break some limits. But no matter what, I wouldn't say that it would have any psychic results.
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 6:13am
Transcript time again … 🙂
Dearlaice Gortaigh has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 7:51am
Originally posted by kwhero:
Yes, I understand your point. It's true that we're always using our brain and that the most part of it is being controlled by our unconscious ( to regulate our body and so on) but imagine if you could enhance your conscious part while maintaining the unconscious part untouched. Like, for example, drastically augmenting your IQ by a lot of points.
I can't imagine how having an IQ of 200 or even 300 ( or even more) would be like… And the consequences it would have.
Having such a high IQ would definitely impact our reasoning and allow us to do things that we can't even start to imagine… at a cost , I'm afraid. What cost? Who knows…
Anyway, we'll see in the next game what the Third Eye actually is! Ahaha (maybe it's even both!)
P.S: Thanks for the transcripts! Keep'em coming! Ahaha
Last edited by Dearlaice Gortaigh; 19 Feb @ 7:52am
orian34 has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 8:14am
When you look through a telescope, you are blind to the world around you.
This is the cost to pay for having more allocated to your consciousness. You forget about the simple things because the control you have allows you to be more focused on one thing.
That and a lot of other things I don't wanna expand upon.
You're very right. Being so focused on something must leave you utterly oblivious to everything around you. I guess that you'd obviate and ignore such simple things at that point.
Why would an elephant care of stepping on an ant? This must be something similar
Good point there orian34!
#980 = ?
I recommend reading "Flowers for Algernon"
and no transcript yet, I went to play with the dog, on the beach
Originally posted by xae-chan:
Reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer "increases" his IQ ( that episode is based on this book)
EDIT: The story is pretty touching :steamsad:
Thought came into my head last night. What if DDLC is also a jab at those ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game creepy pastas. You know the one. The one where some random slub gets a game cartridge usually from a garage sale or something and they take it hime and "oh no it is cursed and has sentience." Dan has admitted he wrote Creppy Pastas before as Yuri's CHR is one. Just came tomind DDLC could be a commentary on that.
Originally posted by Da ninja:
Thought came into my head last night. What if DDLC is also a jab at those :poop: game creepy pastas. You know the one. The one where some random slub gets a game cartridge usually from a garage sale or something and they take it hime and "oh no it is cursed and has sentience." Dan has admitted he wrote Creppy Pastas before as Yuri's CHR is one. Just came tomind DDLC could be a commentary on that.
You're right. It might be. Like you've just said, take look at Yuri.chr
That is a creepy pasta about something "similar" that DS himself wrote. He put it in the game as a mock to subpar creepy pastas? He put it just for nostalgia? Who knows…
Anyway, this game is too many things at a time so labeling it is very hard! Ahaha
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 10:05am
YouTube™ Video: DokiPop
This originally started with just an edit of Natsuki as Kyu. Wasn't really meant to turn into anything else—although, while playing the game, I had imagined Monika, Yuri, and Sayori having these…
orian34 has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 10:12am
It would be more like an albatross. They don't step on people, they're just too far to see them. Even if the height might seem to be arrogance for others on the ground.
Last edited by orian34; 19 Feb @ 7:16pm
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 Feb @ 6:54pm
https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/2153858-ddlc_escape_plan_failed
Somehow, I can feel the end of "Alice's Resturant" merging into DDLC.
Da ninja has Doki Doki Literature Club 20 Feb @ 12:56am
YouTube™ Video: Alice's Restaurant – Original 1967 Recording
From Arlo Guthrie's same-titled album, released by Reprise.
Yeah, makes more sense and feels more appropriate (especially the arrogance part, it's a very good example!)
I wonder why the first animal that came to mind was an elephant… Oh well, who knows? Ahaha
This song is called Monika's Club, and it's about Monika, and the
Club, but Monika's Club is not the name of the Club,
That's just the name of the song, and that's why I called the song Monika's
You can get anything you want in Monika's Club (excepting Monika)
You can get anything you want, at Monika's Club
Walk right in it's on the third floor
Just a half a mile from the MC's house
Man, this song could be transformed to fit DDLC entirely! Ahaha
EDIT: Actually, pretty much anything could be converted with a little bit of imagination, right? Ahaha
And now I imagine Sayori recounting the time she and Yuri got in trouble with the law from dumping and littering the Lit Club's trash.
Showing 991-1005 of 1,023 comments
The jokes never end! Ahaha
https://wwwddlcrl.net/look-here/
Just dropped it on twitter
Let's just not have Yuri cut the cake.
Good point. The usual warning before serving food is, wash your hands. Washing Yuri's knife collection would probably require an autoclave. Twice.
We don't want her to feed the raccoon with the cake, right? Ahaha
And good job, looking good so far!
Washing Yuri's knife collection would probably require an autoclave. Twice.
And don't worry about them, if we do trust Yuri, they must be in optimal conditions. She even gives them their fair share of use so they won't rust! She's so thoughtful… Isn't she? Ahaha
Bones are efficient at sharpening blades, done right…
Moreover, I think that she won't ever need to refund any knife since she can determine whether she likes it or not in situ!
Although, I guess that she must spend a fortune washing her clothes… or buying new ones! Ahaha
LOL, DG. Better visit this page
https://wwwddlcrl.net/awesome/
before it gets trashed.
Way I see it, complaining behind closed doors lets the ♥♥♥♥ers get away with their♥♥♥♥♥♥and no one else the wiser. I'm guessing its 'the cloud' and sync failure, or Monika …
Three days running this happens and no one sez nuffing. It's like the typical ISP never has problems.
Damn I forgot to mention WP has proprietary HTML.
Twenty-some years ago I was writing a website on Notepad, XOOM, a startup offering free webspace, yay. I was scourng the web for javascript tricks, so had embedded slideshows, video, audio themes with anime reviews and characters screenshots; and IRC stuff. Web 1.0 was fun!
It looks nice and it's pretty cool of you to explain the site's "story" . Ahaha
Way I see it, complaining behind closed doors lets the ♥♥♥♥ers get away with their :poop: and no one else the wiser. I'm guessing its 'the cloud' and sync failure, or Monika …
Yup, I've had my "experience" with WP and they're pretty terrible. Complex HTML templates and if it goes down they're the ones that start pointing fingers and avoid any kind of guilt.
Web 1.0 sure was fun and easy! But why keep it simple when you can add tons of almost useless content making everything much harder (and ugly)? Ahaha
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 26 Feb @ 12:03pm
there's an echo in here
Ooooh, the deafening silence!
It's either Monika or Steam. We were well above 1060 AND I've got that transcript.
Da ninja has Doki Doki Literature Club 26 Feb @ 1:12pm
I was going to post here was just too lazy. Like everyday.
orian34 has Doki Doki Literature Club 26 Feb @ 1:19pm
I was too busy sharpening my blade to hear the echoes of it.
That, and I didn't have much to say…yet
Showing 1,006-1020 of 1,023 comments
So minor theory may as well put it here.
Monika was never as bad as people portray her. Or in other words Monika regretted deleting the other girls. Dunno if its a theory or actual fact given the context. When you are alone with Monika in the end room one of the topics she thinks about are her friends. Despite them being deleted she still speaks highly of them even if they are dead.
She talks on how she is glad Natsuki as a home, on Sayori's sucide saying she wish it went better, even onthe time Yuri brought wine to her club.
""I was thinking about Sayori earlier…"
"I still wish I could have handled that whole thing a little more tactfully."
"You're not still hung up over it, right?"
"…Oh my gosh, I can't believe I just said that."
"That pun was completely unintentional, I swear!"
"But anyway…"
"I know how much you cared about her, so it only feels right for me to share her last moments with you."
"You know how Sayori is really clumsy?"
"Well, she kind of messed up the whole hanging thing…"
"You're supposed to jump from high enough that the rope snaps your neck, making it quick and painless."
"But she just used a chair, meaning she kind of just left herself to slowly asphyxiate."
"But a few seconds in, she must have changed her mind or something…"
"Because she started clawing at the rope, trying to free herself."
"She must have kept at it all the way until she lost consciousness."
"That's why her fingertips were all bloody, anyway."
"Come to think of it, it was probably less 'changing her mind' and more just her survival instincts kicking in."
"So you can't really fault her for that."
"It's easier to think that she probably wouldn't have changed her mind anyway, right?"
"It's not healthy to think about the things you could have done differently."
"So just remember that even though you could have saved her, it's technically not your fault she killed herself."
"I may have exacerbated it a little bit, but Sayori was already mentally ill."
"Still, though…"
"I wonder how things would be if you and I just started dating from the get-go?"
"I guess we'd all still be in the clubroom, writing poems and having fun together."
"But what's the point when none of it is even real?"
"I mean, it's the same ending either way, right?"
"The two of us, happily together…"
"There's no reason to ask for any more than that."
"I was just pointlessly musing – I'm really as happy as I could be right now.""
"Ehehe. Yuri did something really funny once."
"We were all in the clubroom and just relaxing, as usual…"
"And out of nowhere, Yuri just pulled out a small bottle of wine."
"I'm not even kidding!"
"She was just like 'Would anybody like some wine?'"
"Natsuki laughed out loud, and Sayori started yelling at her."
"I actually felt kind of bad, because she was at least trying to be nice…"
"I think it just made her feel even more reserved in the clubroom."
"Though I think Natsuki was secretly a bit curious to try it…"
"…And to be completely honest, I kind of was, too."
"It actually could have been kinda fun!"
"But you know, being President and everything, there was no way I could let that happen."
"Maybe if we all met up outside of school, but we never bonded enough to get to that point…"
"…Gosh, what am I talking about this for?"
"I don't condone underage drinking!"
"I mean, I've never drank or anything, so…yeah.""
""There's a really popular character type called 'tsundere'…"
"It's someone who tries to hide their feelings by being mean and fussy, or trying to act tough."
"I'm sure it's obvious, but Natsuki was really the embodiment of that."
"At first I thought she was just like that because it's supposed to be cute or something…"
"But once I started to learn a little more about her personal life, it made a little more sense."
"It seems like she's always trying to keep up with her friends."
"You know how some friend groups in high school just make a habit of picking on each other all the time?"
"I think it's really gotten to her, so she has this really defensive attitude all the time."
"And I'm not even going to talk about her home situation…"
"But looking back, I'm glad I was able to provide the club as a comfortable place for her."
"Not that it matters anymore, considering she doesn't even exist."
"I'm just reminiscing, that's all.""
Some of the phrasing comes off that she is trying to convince herself and feels guilt for what she did. She brings up her friends but then almost instantly disregards them, telling you to forget about them despite she being the one to bring them up, or disregards it as "they weren't real anyway"
Then after you delete her you find out she had back ups of their files. Just a little thing I noticed that felt that Monika despite saying she was happy with the player, well she probably was happy but she probably also felt bad about her friends and would have liked a path where she could have you and keep her friends alive at the same time.
kwhero has Doki Doki Literature Club 26 Feb @ 3:13pm
Speaking of mini theories, I think all of the girls might've known about each other's problems even without any messing with the script. In Act 2, there's that argument with Yuri and Natsuki with the looking under the vending machine for coins and the cutting herself on that edge. But in Act 1, I think Natsuki knew about Sayori's depression. In the cookie scene, even though Natsuki has trouble feeding herself, she went out of her way to do something that would make Sayori happy and bought a cookie for her. Anyway, just an impression I got.
That's kinda what happens in irl too. People tend to ginroe problems of ourselves and our friends under the pretense of it may go away if we ignore it. I think that was one thing DDLC handled excellently for the case of mental illnesses. The game is fine as is and it was free but wish there was more expansion on these character elements as well.
「D I O」 has Doki Doki Literature Club 21 hours ago
So, I just stumbled upon something pretty interesting on twitter, not exactly theory related though. I was debating on whether or not I should post it here since it's a bit of a bold speculation, but I decided to go for it anyways. I can state it in an image rather than a wall of text:
https://imgur.com/a/kQFRc
orian34 has Doki Doki Literature Club 21 hours ago
Isn't he the artist for the collab during the DDLC's dev time. I think it was an easter egg about the sister game, more than the speculated PL game. But again, it might be a veil…
Could be that. Though, the art style DOES look pretty similar…and this thing he said about "super secret project", "…in…x years" and that DDLC is from someone he's "currently collaborating with"…hm…I wouldn't look too deep into this since it's not really an important thing as of now, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.
Last edited by 「D I O」; 20 hours ago
Dearlaice Gortaigh has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 hours ago
Long time no see guys!
I'm glad to see that this is still surviving after the pass of time! Ahaha
Well, to start with, WHAT THE HELL STEAM?
We had like 1060+ comments! We even had them transcripted! Why? How? Who? Sheesh…
EDIT: THE COMMENTS GOT MOVED! Comment 1060 is now 972!!! What kind of sorcery is this Steam? Which comments got actually removed?
Like I have said many times in the past, Monika is a very unreliable and cunning fox, so we can't really trust anything she says. Still, I do believe that she has some kind of remorse/regret when she does delete the girls. Even if she acknowledges them as fake and even if she makes them have dire endings, afterwards, she holds some kind of mournful feelings. Why?
A very good comparison would be us right now thinking about the girls. Even if they are fake, watching them go and disappear really scarred us and left us feeling pretty bad. This was probably the same for Monika as she sees them like we do. Attachment to something "non-human" like. That is called Anthropomorphism[en.wikipedia.org]!
Yeah, I've always thought that they might had known a little bit of the other girls' problems. Maybe not as in-depth like in Act2, but they surely hinted that everything wasn't quite alright.
Did Natsuki really buy the cookie? Does she say so? I have the impression that she baked them. For her? It's a mystery how Natsuki can bake if things are so terrible with her father. If she doesn't have money at all, how in heaven can she afford to buy the ingredients?
Maybe, the girls' problems in Act1 were VERY softcore in comparison to Act2. That would make sense since Monika only wanted to get rid of Sayori in Act1 so she experimentally decided to mess her up to see what would happen ( if we actually believe Monika and her "I messed her code up"). Let's say, Sayori was Act2 prelude.
Anyway, she probably saw that it was indeed successful and efficient and decided to do the same in Act2 ( or maybe she just lost control… or broke the game)
To sum up, the girls had problems but not as severe as in Act 2. I believe that they knew they had some issues ( like everyone) but still, they didn't do much nor thought it was serious enough to get involved.
Well, I hope that you get my point! It's been a while since I last wrote a reply here! I'm kinda rusty! Ahaha
Originally posted by 「D I O」:
Don't worry DIO! Any speculation is good speculation! Even the boldest ones! Ahaha
So thanks for posting this here :steamhappy:
I do not know what to say about the picture/conversation but I kinda agree with orian34 here. It could be an easter egg or it couldn't. Since I don't have much background, I can't really develop any theory! Like you've said, it's not very important right now but it sure is suspicious…
Anyway, I find funny the "x years" thing. "hxppy thxughts" and "insxde my head"comes to my mind. I don't know why though! Ahaha
Last edited by Dearlaice Gortaigh; 19 hours ago
kwhero has Doki Doki Literature Club 19 hours ago
Did Natsuki really buy the cookie? Did she say so? I have the impression that she baked them. For her? It's a mystery how Natsuki can bake if things are so terrible with her father. If she doesn't have money at all, how in heaven can she afford to buy the ingredients?
Can't tell. It just says it's a giant cookie in plastic wrapping. I haven't known anyone to make giant cookies themselves though. Either way, both money and food are supposedly hard for her to get.
When the MC said "plastic wrapping" I thought it was some sort of food plastic bag.
Something like this http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lua3qhAuoa1qdei8m.jpg
Ironically, I don't know any place that sells giant cookies with chocolate chips! Ahaha
But yeah, Natsuki is supposed to have problems with both food and money so I guess that my assumption of "softcore" problems must be true. Makes sense in a way, right?
In absolutely every single VN, everyone has some kind of secret issue they are not willing to share at first ( they make references though) but after some time they end up giving up ( persistence is the key right? Ahaha). Maybe this was a jibe to that? Or should I say, one more jibe? Ahaha
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 18 hours ago
hi guys, Steam has a bout of amnesia and we're filling up the gap again.
So …Da ninja, I was neutral going into the game, got to the void and listened to her, started to realize she was the first victim of the game, played through to good and special endings. Did do a couple of tests of that new game, delete, etc, And just felt bad about that. I did start a new run trying to get screenshots of poems. Now I'm in the void gain and I.just.cant.delete.her.again. No.
kwhero, the cookie thing, yes … and the poem that was really a cry for help for Yuri, even after the vicious Act Two argument.
Da ninja again … when Sayori explained her depression , I wasn't reading so much as hearing it. I am sure DS had some personal experienceto write tose lines.
DIO, interesting find. This was my take, speculation: https://wwwddlcrl.net/213-2/
It is painful when there is a disconnect so strong that you know the person is completely unable to understand you, despite everything you could say.
Could you imagine what it would mean when it's everyone else like that?
Last edited by orian34; 18 hours ago
Da ninja has Doki Doki Literature Club 17 hours ago
I think they all do care for each other in the lvub, more then they let on. After all, they literally only have each other.
I would live to revise a former theory I put out too. On if there is more inthe DDLC world. I still think that there may be more people living in this world then the main four girls we see. Mostly this is from Natsuki. Her dad is an estabilshed character and his actions off screen show thy have a consequence on her.
As DG reiterates, "Monika is a very unreliable and cunning fox," and most of what we know doesn't come from the characters themselves.
n "Like I could have a guy over my house … "
mc "Really?That's kinda strict, if you ask me."
n "Yeah, how do you think I feel"
n "I can't do anything when my dad is home … " <—-
n "Anyway, I just needed to complain for a second."
poem_special9.png
15 lines of a simple structure that coul be Natsuki's and then
I like when Papa is too tired to notice me.
I like when Papa is too tired for anything.—————————
I like when
Papa is too
tired for anything.
Who do we know likes to play with the space on paper? And glitched
text is auto
matically
suspect.
Last edited by xae-chan; 17 hours ago
As DG reiterates, "Monika is a very unreliable and cunning fox," and most of what we know doesn't come from the characters themselves.
n "Like I could have a guy over my house … "
mc "Really?That's kinda strict, if you ask me."
n "Yeah, how do you think I feel"
n "I can't do anything when my dad is home … " <—-
[codeI like when
suspect.[/code]
But what does it mean when any of the Dokis are "home." Like inthe clubroom even if they are not in your visual space MC says they are in another part of the room. Fine but how far does this world extend? One one hand this is a commonstable of VNs and their tropes,the only characters that have sprites and appear are those important to the story otherwise you get "I walk into a large crowd" to state if there are other people there.
Yeah, I don't think that just because something doesn't have game assets that it means they don't exist in the story. For indie developers and even professional VN developers, only backgrounds and characters that will be used a lot are drawn. CGs tend to just be used for moments that they want to stand out to you. When I see a new character appear on screen, I immediately know that they're important to the story. But for the rest of the characters that don't matter, you'll only see their name above the textbox.
Still, I don't think any minor characters had any speaking roles at all. Though MC did describe a crowd on the way to school.
My Vn expiernce has been very limited but Katawa Shoujo was the only other one I really played. Good game btw and it is the same thing. Only a few select people have spirites, the MC, the dtaeable girls, and a few teachers and NPCs that play a role. Everyone else is just kind implied to exist or in game are literally facelss blobs in a crowd. What I am wondering is do other characters exist in the context of the world and we just don't see them? Like the potential that the DDLC world is like its own little pocket universe in itself.
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 9 hours ago
I seem to have triggered something here and I don't understand why.
First, I should say, I have decades of experience with anime. NPCs everywhere, so to speak. The ubiquous old grandma ladeling out water onto the footpath of a morning. Comic relief characters you see occasionally. An interesting girl you see in one scene that just seems to vanish until, I guess, the response of the crowd forces a change to the scripts.
And yeah, there are a lot of series with parents who both are pursuing their careers overseas. So that trope ould easily fit Sayori.
Anyway, the slice of life is there, it feels … "not empty". So, yeah, I've expressed my take on the DDLC world b4.
Not today.
Sheesh, I even gave you an [b[arrow[/b] to the discrepancy I realized. And although I didn't explicate it, I realized Natsuki's dad is not the villain we surmised. Even tho I don't see him.
I don't have to see a good father that raised a daughter who would appeal for help for Yuri despite Act Two. But am abusive allegation with no visible means of support suggests Chekhov's pistol. Is that no so?
Dearlaice Gortaigh has Doki Doki Literature Club 4 hours ago
I'll put here what I said when this topic was raised:
DDLC universe is pretty mysterious. If we consider it like a "real" world rather than a game we only have a few hints of what it might be happening:
1- Time passes: Time passes not only for the MC but for the other girls too. Even if the MC is not present, things happen: Sayori's suicide, Natsuki baking cupcakes for the festival in the 2nd run…
This apparently stops in 3rd act as Monika says I don't know if there is time anymore Maybe she broke the rules of the universe while modifying the files? Most likely yes
2- Characters exist ( at least the girls) even if the MC is not around
3-Characters perform actions: Characters (at least the girls) can perform actions even if the MC is not present. Natsuki bakes, Sayori hangs her christmas decorations () etc
4- Places exist even if the MC has not seen them or doesn't know them ( Natsuki's house, Yuri's house etc)
All of the rules above are quite obvious but that's what we know so far.
To sum up time and space exist
We also don't know how deep PL is in this game. Maybe you're right and there are even agents inside! But we have no evidence
If we consider it like a game rather than a "real" world:
1-Time passes: Just like above, time also passes. The script follows a "sequential" order ( since it's python it makes sense ) Even though it follows a rail, it can be bent. Monika bends the rail so much it just breaks everything. When she says I don't know if there is time anymore she subtly says that the script is not sequential anymore but a loop since it will happen the same over and over again.
2-Characters exist ( at least the girls) even if the MC is not present
3-Characters perform actions(at least the girls) even if the MC is not around: Just like above, girls follow the script and do the actions accordingly.
4- Places are just an illusion : For the MC, the places are only where things happen but it doesn't matter if they actually exist ( like Natsuki's house for example). It just matters when and how. Places are just a picture. No more. For the girls places are also an illusion, a feeling. Monika is aware of that illusion and tells the player so in the void
I feel like I'm at home, but have no idea where 'home' is in the first place.
To sum up, we can consider that time actually "exists"
And here I'll give my opinion:
I agree with both kwhero and Da ninja that only important characters are pictured with sprites and all the other characters are only names above a textbox (like in Katawa Shoujo) or a vague description. Even if they don't visually appear in scene, they perform actions that affect the protagonists. This is true in most regular VNs… BUT this is not a regular VN.
I'm in favor of the aforementioned "game" approach I explained in the past. I can't imagine this game being so " deep" . Everything looks like if it had been masterfully set up beforehand. Like in a theatre play. Faceless props that make the story interesting but that's it. They actually don't do anything at all. They're just mentioned. That's their purpose.
Also, like we discussed in the past, we're not even sure WHO actually wrote the special poems. There are hints that the girls actually wrote them but also they always have that Monika "touch" :
In happy thoughts Sayori has blood in her hands
In Natsuki's papa poem the word disorder is awfully suspicious
There are poems that are clearly from Monika (can you hear me, stare at the dot …)
The Joke poem we're not even sure if it's from Sayori!
That's another point in favor that their world is just a stage which Monika had been able to control up to an extent.
To sum up, I completely agree with xae-chan about the Chekhov's pistol principle. Everthing that we see/read is there for a reason! Even Yuri's last poem! Ahaha
Last edited by Dearlaice Gortaigh; 4 hours ago
#1023 = 1111
[I have no idea how to splice this into our Steam topic]
[and what has been added since, let's see] nothing yet
[ and now there is, enough for another transcript ]
「D I O」 has Doki Doki Literature Club 28 Feb @ 1:30pm
I don't have anything theory related to post today but I wanted to say something so, here's a podcast interview with DS himself. He brings up some interesting things about his writing:
http://dorkshelf.com/2018/02/26/play-dead-s3-episode-2-dan-salvato-on-doki-doki-literature-club/
That wass a worthwhile ~20 minutes. Thanks.
Last edited by xae-chan; 28 Feb @ 4:37pm
Maybe it's not the best place for this, but it was a random thought after listening to the interview :
Metarealistic Dilemma of a Character.
What makes a character so real for us that we feel empathy for it? How can a fictional character become real to the point of having us consider it like that?
It seems like the more a "fictional" character shows traits and actions similar to a person's own life experience or his surroundings, the more that person will resonate with it and consider it "real", creating a connection with it.
Which will cause that person to feel empathy for it, despite being "fictional", because of the bond created. The stronger that bond is, the more you "invest" a part of you in it and make it "real"(my view on reality : Reality is a complex synaptic network of subjective registers influencing our own worlds).
Similar to how our expectations be reflected by something makes it "real" for us, because it creates a link relative to the strength of the met expectations(see waifus).
If we take it on the other side : the less a person has relativity to a "fictional" character, the weaker the bond will be and the less it will feel "real" for us. Luckily we have a common ground of experience : being human, so there's always a common base as long as the character is kinda being like a human.
But it means that for someone with very little relatability to a "fictional" character, that person would feel almost no empathy nor find it "real" for the character. It would be fully "fictional" for this person.
Now, the interesting thing is that because we all have our own "reality"(or perception of it), it would mean that a character could be incredibly "real" for one person and completely "fictional" for another, at the same time.
Could this be, in a way, reflected on Schrödinger's Cat, having a person perceive the cat as "alive" while another would perceive it as "dead".
Reflections, reflections, reality feels like a maze of mirrors sometimes…
Kinda true. I think Monika mentioned this but I remember it before hand. As in hearing about it before hand. We sometimes like characters because we see a bit of ourselves in them which is also why we get defensive over our favs. We sometimes feel it is a personal attack since we like them so much. Monika did an analogy tothis with movies in her talks.
That said Monika is my fav but I don't actually see any bit of me in her. I just like her strong willpower trying to overthrow her cruel world and her rebellious nature. Well maybe the rebellious nature is a little bit of me.
Ahem, that said given it is a waifu game it is nowonder that people felt so invested in the characters, the girls, and the waifu wars.
Last edited by Da ninja; 21 hours ago
I think this is the right place for it, orian34.
Something that makes a difference from the get-go your personality type.A dozen years ago I was in a forum in the U.S.for about three years, mainly economics and some political. It felt like the LC without the glitches. Not that there were not robust discussions but it felt comfortable. Then a newcomer said, guys, wanna take a pesonalikty profite test?
This was an offshoot of Jung's work, Myers-Briggs profile. Well, it turned out 90% of the regulars were INTJ and I fitted in well. Introvert, iNtuition, Thinking, Judging.
The polar opposite is ESFP, Extrovert, Sensing, Feeling,Perceiving.
All my life I've been a writer, story captures me, and I can become immersed in it. So, with DDLC, I went in cold wanting to get through, get the lay of the land. Quick trip to the Void. That's OK. Hadn't invested in any empathy along the way.
Second time through, having found a guide about the recursive poem game play, I started to notice personalities. Well, I've always like the tsundere type, Grit your teeth, don't lose the game by letting them get to you. The armore crumbles quickly enough.
Audrey in HuniePop was easy. Ten girls and only one with a negative token? Broken heart.
So, DDLC, Natsuki, an inch shorter than my late wife if she took a deep breath. And I've always liked loli's anyway. Not in a perv way and never been in the waifu camp until … Morgiana, in Magi, the Labyrinth of Magic. Meeting her first time, hyou wouldn't take your chances. A slave owned by a cruel merchant, her from a warrior tribe, stolen and sold, eager to do her bidding.
Well some story arcs, eventually, she follows Aladdin and Alibaba un til one night camping with a carfavan, she asks permission to do something. And little Aibabi explaoins that she is *free* and no permission from anyone to do anything. And her realization of what freedom was, I just fell in love with her.
I certainly see your point about 'connections' I just don't quite see how it happens to me. Mind you, I wondered early on how DS crafted a Monika so well to appeal to so many people. I certainly understood her story from the beginning. It's only recen tly, I started a nother run trying to pick up screen captures for tne website. I got distracted and ended up in the void. And I just can't delete Monika again. I've hhurt her enough already.
But I can't find you one instance of connection that fit 100%. Several years ago, "Your Lie in April" about 'serious musicians'. Compettitions. I had what they called a Hollywood mother. so I could relate to that. Oh yeah.
Yeah, your comment fit right in here. Thanks.
orian34, many thanks for your thoughts! This is definitely the place to post them! Ahaha
I think that it's just fair if I share them too:
So about what makes something, like a character, "real" for me.
Like you've said, it mostly depends on what you consider reality. My vision of reality is a little bit twisted and crude, which makes me reject any kind of "realism" of a character.
Still, that doesn't mean I can't feel empathy for them nor consciously consider them "real". Usually, when I read a book (or a VN) or watch a TV cartoon ( I've never been into "human" shows) I tend to put into the MC's shoes.
Usually, I do it as way to enhance the experience, to emulate their feelings and stuff in my mind. It's way easier in books and VNs rather than in shows though.
What I'm trying to say here is that it's very easy for me to feel empathy for them, to stiltedly create that bond, and feel what they feel or , at least, a hint of what they might actually be feeling even though I consider them "fictional".
I could say that I willfully anthropomorphize them. I purposely give human traits and emotions to something I consider fake. Why? That's a question I can't really answer…
Anyway, I agree with you that the bond's strength is completely relative to the person's own personality (or its willpower to make it more or less powerful) and that's what makes us choose our favorites.
Like Da ninja and you both have said, the more you reflect in a character, the more you're bound to like it. That could happen unwittingly or on purpose if you're able to identify and deliberately create the aforementioned bond.
EDIT: I forgot to say that you may be able to create the bond but the problem is maintaining it. You could end up losing control over it and start to merge "reality" with "fiction" . It's not the first time that something "fictional" had hitted me so hard that started to affect my "reality". I guess that you know what I mean here.
But sometimes, you like a character not because you reflect yourself in it, but because quite the opposite. You might end liking a character just because you'd love to think like it. To act like it. And, sometimes, BE like it.
It's because of the previous reasons that it's very rare for me to take part in any discussion regarding a so called "waifu" since I really think I won't be ever able to have one.
Although, this doesn't mean I can't understand people who have one. Or the people who actually fall in love with a character. Or the ones that heed about their emotions(I guess that my point of view is a little bit cold, isn't it?)
For some reason, for me, to consider something "real" I need it to be able to answer me. To have freedom of choice. To somehow interact with me Basically, what I'm describing here is some sort of human… but it doesn't have to be one.
Anyway, I hope that I've got my point across because I think I'm starting to beat around the bush! Ahaha
So, yet again, thanks for your reflexions :steamhappy:
orian34 has Doki Doki Literature Club 9 hours ago
I think that part is pretty important, yes
Similar to how our expectations being reflected by something makes it "real" for us, because it creates a link relative to the strength of the met expectations(see waifus).
We search for what we are missing to feel whole again. This could mean that by analyzing what a person likes, we would know what that person researches and is missing.
It may seem obvious, but I think it's easily overlooked and can be used as a powerful tool in a story.
The more evident , the more prone we are to completely ignore it.
I think that a good way to appeal to almost everyone would be to put in scene all kinds of personalities and, if you think about it, absolutely almost all series, books and VNs have, at least, some of the most "basic" personalities. That way, you can always search what you want, right?
Everytime, when I talk about such complicated ideas, it always comes to my mind what Voltaire once said :Common sense is not so common
He was pretty darn right, wasn't he? Ahaha
Da ninja has Doki Doki Literature Club 7 hours ago
"So, DDLC, Natsuki, an inch shorter than my late wife if she took a deep breath. And I've always liked loli's anyway."
I see you are a man of culture.
"I certainly see your point about 'connections' I just don't quite see how it happens to me. Mind you, I wondered early on how DS crafted a Monika so well to appeal to so many people. I certainly understood her story from the beginning. It's only recen tly, I started a nother run trying to pick up screen captures for tne website. I got distracted and ended up in the void. And I just can't delete Monika again. I've hhurt her enough already."
There was a video on youtube, dont remeber it since Iwatch so many Doki videos. But they were comemnting on allthe fan art and fanfics of it and the works. And explaining why they do it. Then they said remember Sayori saying "Come play with us again, we love you." I will try to paraphrase what he said since it spoke to me but basically it came down to that they are doing Sayori's wishes that they are giving these girls the life they wanted. No matter what it is. A romantic pic of Monika on a date, Natsuki getting Buff and beating up her dad, a silly happy meme of Sayori. You are doing Sayori's wish in the golden ending by playing with the girls and giving them what they wanted.
We usually connect with people and characters that speak to us and soemtimes reflect our personal experiences. Like Monika willalways be my fav but Natsuki is my second but she wasn't always. At first Iwas turned away fromher Tsun persaonlity type since I freaking hate those things. But going down her path and learning about her in game context kinda changed that. That was the humanzing element Dan talked about. Like leanring about Natsuki's family abuse from Monika and why she acts the way she does. That made me connect with her more then "lol she's cute and likes anime" because I came from an abusive family too and could relate with her.
To Salvato's credit he did a tough task. The game is short, like very short so he had to make all four characters memorable in their own right and make the palyrs care for them. Like Xae-Chan talking about how they can't delete Monika now. Salvato made you and many others care for fictional characters that it pains people to delete them. I did the same thing that I did make multiple copies of Monika's CHR so there was no chance she would be deleted.
xae-chan has Doki Doki Literature Club 1 hour ago
Da inja ""they said remember Sayori saying "Come play with us again, we love you." I will try to paraphrase what he said since it spoke to me but basically it came down to that they are doing Sayori's wishes that they are giving these girls the life they wanted. No matter what it is. A romantic pic of Monika on a date, Natsuki getting Buff and beating up her dad, a silly happy meme of Sayori. You are doing Sayori's wish in the golden ending by playing with the girls and giving them what they wanted."
wow … it's so obvious now when I read it, and it never crossed my mind. DS is truly a master storyteller. It's like he left a way for the dokis to escape the game and now they're in our world(s). No wonder he says no more DDLC content. It's writing itself.
And now it's tkme for another transcript. I had to go bac to Steam's 920 to match to our 1001, thenn seven missing comments and we've got to thir 973 matches our 1061. When I did this, ours was at 1111. Your above comment at real 1121. The missing comments were banned peeps but I haven't gone back to see who they were, None of this really makes sense.
Last edited by xae-chan; 1 hour ago
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