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Letourneau's Strange Family/Bush Gov Connections
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Just have to say
by Rigorous Intuition » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:09 am
whoa!<br><br>Thanks chiggerbit for a remarkable thread, and everyone for their contributions. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 11/30/05 9:10 pm<br></i>
Rigorous Intuition
Re: Just have to say
by chiggerbit » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:50 am
I keep coming back to this:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But at least one physician treating John George had become convinced that the boy had had a hair deliberately wrapped around the organ. He would recall it as being "tied in a square knot."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Is there some special symbolism demonstrated in a square knot? <p></p><i></i>
chiggerbit
I don't meant to suggest a correlation,
by Rigorous Intuition » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:27 am
but the hair in <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Hair of the Alien</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> was also intentionally and painfully wrapped about the penis after a failed succubus-like encounter.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.theozfiles.com/anomaly_investigation_group.html">www.theozfiles.com/anomaly_investigation_group.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
by bamabecky » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:56 am
Don't they use psychics to lead the rituals? Can't wait to read the rest of this thread.<br>Bama <p>Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.</p><i></i>
bamabecky
by Jen » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:01 am
Speaking of more info, I'm about to do a Google search, but--does anyone have any tips about how to find good (ie; not RW-biased) website/blog histories about M.K. Letourneau's personal history? I haven't looked at any of it in a very long time--the L.K. interview was the first one I'd seen her give in a while, and watching it, I was left with many, many questions about how a predator like that had gone unpunnished for so long. <p></p><i></i>
amazing stuff
by manxkat » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:14 am
This is truly fascinating. Thanks chiggerbit. And cd, get yer butt back in here with more info!!! <p></p><i></i>
manxkat
Wow! This is one of the best threads...
by banned » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:19 am
...ever!<br><br>I've never seen Mary Kay on tv--I don't have cable, which spares me seeing many disgusting things, I'm probably one of the few people in America who could sit on Anderson Cooper and not have a clue who he was. But the articles I read are definitely consistent with someone who is compulsively reenacting abuse by someone she trusted by abusing someone who trusts her. I <br><br>Which brings me back to what seems to me to be a central issue for survivors of sexual abuse. As we've discussed in other threads here, being abused can leave someone with an unhealthy arousal pattern--ie, they can only get turned on by sexual situations or practices that are dangerous to them or abusive to others. Some people resist and seek therapy to redirect their libidos. Others become perpetrators and pass down the legacy of pain to other children. What determines whether someone does what was done to them? Certainly the classic perpetrator is someone who totally lacks empathy, not only for their victims but for their child self. To realize that the child 'doesn't like it', that it isn't 'good for him/her', is to also realize that what was done to you was horrible and inexcusable and that you were damaged by it. I can tell you from personal experience that this realization can be accompanied by murderous rage; luckily, my perpetrators are all dead, some for decades now. I am NOT defending passing on the abuse, only saying that in some cases it may seem to the person on a subconscious level where those decisions are made that it's less scary than passing the abuse back UP the line to one's own abusers.<br><br>Anyway, Mary Kay's family makes mine look like the frickin' Waltons. And the idea that she married the boy she abused and that they have two daughters...what on earth is going to happen to those poor little girls? <p></p><i></i>
See, one of my questions is, what happened to her two sons from the marriage she had before she married her last (?) victim? That's why I'd like to know more about her. As I've seen here, the "full story" is proving to be disturbingly enlightening on so many levels.<br><br>And please, any psychologists, survivors, or other authorities we have who would like to expand on banned's post about how someone like Mary Kay is created, feel free. One thing I'd like to hear opinions on--will someone like M.K.L. offend again? Why or why not? <p></p><i></i>
A quick couple of Google searches have brought up a number of other curious details of M.K.L's case that I'd forgotten about (and that IIR, were buried under the '90s media's disgusting coverage of her arrest and trial). Apparently, there are many who believe she isn't a "true" pedophile, but instead, someone with bipolar disorder who, while feeling the hypersexual tendencies associated with the manic phase of the bipolar cycle, chose an underage male to satisfy those urges with (the characterization of those who buy this as the only explanation, not mine). At one point, before being released from jail the first time, one of the conditions for release asked for by the judge was that M.K.L. agree to take medication for bipolar disorder.<br><br>M.K.L.'s is now the second "famous" female pedophile I've read about to have allegedly suffered from bipolar disorder, something their lawyers used to explain their desire to commit these crimes. Now, I have nothing but sympathy for those who must deal with the agonies of BPD, but...wouldn't someone who had this disease and was not a child molester choose partners of the same age to have sex with during the "high" end of the bipolar pendulum? Also, now that I've read more the Letourneau-RW-Bush connections, I'm wondering--was the bizarre "forbidden love" take the media put on M.K.L.'s abuse of her victim an attempt to keep America from questioning the significance of her family's RW links, and subsequently what her crimes might have indicated about them and their place in our society? (It's possible that I'm the last person on this board to consider that possibility--please don't laugh.) Was the idea that she had BPD and that this disease was a significant factor in her actions, although less publicized, also part of an attempt to redirect public attention away from the fact that she had abused a minor? <p></p><i></i>
Letourneau/Schmitz/Bush
by cd » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:46 am
Okay! Okay! Sorry I am so slow. A very interesting, but strange and bizarrely organized website that compiles the connections of the Schmitz brothers with the Bush 41 and 43 administrations is here: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.spitfirelist.com/f476.html">www.spitfirelist.com/f476.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br>As to the marital link between the Schmitz and Bush families - the Garnica sisters -- here is what I have been able to glean. Their father is Jose Maria Garnica and their mother is Josefina Gallo. They have a brother named Francisco. They all lived together in Leon, Guanajuata, Mexico, a poor region, until the father left to find construction work in California in 1960. 4 years later he sent for his family to join him. Columba was 11 and Lucila13. Soon after that the mother and father split. I don't know where the kids were raised after that. The father last saw his daughter Columba in 1973 (she would have been 21 or 22) when she left his home in LaPuenta, California saying that she was going to the post office and never returned. Somehow the dad returned (or was returned?) to Mexico, because he was there in 2001 when GWB took his first trip as pres. Jeb and Columba went along. The press in Mexico interviewed her dad (now back in poor Leon). He said he had tried several times over the years to make contact with Columba. When he heard that GWB had been elected he even sent a photo of his young family and a poster of Jesus to the president, in hopes he would be able to meet with his daughter on this trip. It was sent back unopened. The official bio of Columba says she met Jeb in Mexico when he was teaching English on an exchange for Philips Academy in 1971. Does that mean she moved back to Mex? If so, when? Perhaps her mother moved back to Mexico with the kids when she left the father. But that doesn't explain how her sister Lucila met the powerful and well-connected John P. Schmitz. These things don't just happen. Especially with two sisters from a poor family who may have been brought in to the U.S. without visas (of course, I don't know that). Anyway, the father said in the interview that he recieved a phone call the week before the official visit to Mexico from Lucila telling him to quit talking to the media, as he was upsetting Columba.This was back in 2001. I don't know what has happened within that family since then, but another article says that Columba and Jeb's son has indicated to his Mexican grandfather that he would like to meet him and wants to know about his Mexican heritage. I couldn't find out anything more about the mother, Josefina Gallo and the brother, Francisco.<br><br>As to Mary Kay Letourneau, I know I should consider her a monster and a pedophile, but after seeing an interview with her and another with Vili, I felt so sorry for her. She seemed like the victim, and at that time I didn't know anything about her family background. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that her father respected no barriers with her -- or anyone, for that matter. It is strange that she sided with her father in the family and blamed her mother for being cold. But, I know little about that type of family dysfunction. I wonder what happened to the other Schmitz children who are not known (yet) to be big-time players in the Bush administration. <p></p><i></i>
I don't know about her sons...
...by the first marriage but her daughter by the first marriage was apparently at her wedding to Fuuluau (hope I spelled that right but doubt I did, words like that really bring out my dyslexia).<br><br>The same article said she first met him when he was EIGHT and she was 28. That's even skeevier than 13 and 33, and while there was no indication their affair started with the first meeting, you have to wonder.<br><br>I don't think we're used to thinking of women as pedophiles, but the definition of 'pedophile' are fixated on KIDS, right? So when her husband is thirtyish and has a gut and is no longer cute and docile, she may well find herself hanging around schoolyards like male pedophiles.<br><br>The 'bipolar' explanation is BS. Plenty of people manage to be bipolar without putting their hands in the pants of some kid barely through puberty. Sounds like one of those 'bells and whistles' that come out of a brainstorming session by a team of defense lawyers who've had too little sleep and too much Red Bull, pun intended.. <p></p><i></i>
that's what I think
I agree with your take, ban, that the bipolar explanation for her crimes is, well, crap. That doesn't explain why she continues to characterize the relationship, from its inception, as one of "love and mutual respect," or continues to insist that her victim, at age 13, initiated the relationship by being "sexually aggressive" with her. That was one thing about her that just jumped out at me during the King interview, her assertion that Villi seduced her, painting herself as the unwitting captor who wilted innocently under her male student's advances--an attitude which is typical of child molestors (classic, victim-blaming rationalization for their acts). I'm just wondering what else is going on with the BPD issue, if anything. And I would think banned is also right to note that even though M.K.L. is now in control of her victim via their marriage, he has aged (although God knows what her abuse did to his mental and emotional development). Won't she eventually seek out child victims again?<br><br>Okay, a repeat Google search has turned up only one son for M.K.L.--I could have sworn there were two. <p></p><i></i>
Re: that's what I think
by chiggerbit » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:51 pm
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>A detective took the politician aside at a John Birch Society meeting. "Well, is it your son?" the officer asked, after explaining why he was there.<br><br>"Yes, he is," Schmitz replied, "but I do not and will not support him financially. It is her responsibility<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br>What never ceases to amaze me is how these kind of people--rapists, child predators, etc.-- never have the capacity to understand their culpability, to have the least insight into their actions. They seem to have no capacity to feel shame or guilt. Mary Kay stole a third of this boy's childhood, loaded him with the responsibilities of an adult parent years before he was grown. Her father loaded a sick, young woman with two children that he would not lift a finger to help support, financially or parent-wise. Those poor, poor kids were probably fortunate that they went into an orphanage instead of being sent to live with their father. <p></p><i></i>
no conscience
by Jen » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:50 pm
I was just having a discussion on another board about this--a subject which has come up several times in this forum--the idea that many of the perpetrators of these crimes have no conscience. Are sociopaths. Total and complete sociopaths. Has anyone here ever read the book, "The Sociopath Next Door?" It's interesting. Came out in 2004, I think. Claims that 1 in 26 Americans feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever for any pain they cause, any wrong doing they commit. It contained a lot of discussion about what sociopathy is--including some facts I didn't know, like the idea that sociopaths can feel love (albeit in a twisted sense) and can feel pain inflicted by others upon them. Still, if you were to pin one of them down and try to get him or her to admit that any terrible thing he or she had done was wrong--wouldn't happen. Not really, not in any sense that is meaningful. I'm sure most people on this board know that. Is it really any surprise that many on the right are sociopaths? Well, it's still surprising to me that it's "many," as opposed to "a few, some, or a modest but not immeasurble number." But that's me. Two years ago I thought ritual abuse was a myth. I'm not saying sociopathy is the primary dysfuction that warped M.K.L., necessarily, but it may be one of her other (horrifying) problems. As others have noted, I weep for those children. <p></p><i></i>
Re: I don't meant to suggest a correlation,
Interesting, Jeff. The hair knot on the baby's penis has become almost incidental in this story, but whether or not the knot happened accidentally is one thing that I am still mulling. I know that in hand sewing there is trick to making a knot by just rolling the thread between a finger and thumb on one hand. I never got the knack of it. Maybe this incident could have happened accidentally, or maybe not. It would be interesting to see if the kind of knot I'm talking about ever results in a square knot. Even so, how would the knot end up so tight that it would almost amputate the penis without someone pulling on two ends of the hair? It would also be interesting to find out why that doctor said specifically it was a square knot. It would almos take a microscope to see that. Also, what made him look to see what kind of knot it was? Did he know something? <p></p><i></i>
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