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Speaker A: Hey, guys. A note before the episode today on Thursday evening, that's November 2, Sam Bankman Fried was found guilty of all charges. So that's all seven counts that he was charged for. Now, we've recorded this roll up episode before the verdict dropped. David's in Europe. He's likely asleep. So we haven't had a chance to talk about this, but I'm pretty sure I speak for him when I say it feels so good to end this painful chapter in crypto. One year and five days ago, we hosted SBF on this very podcast on a debate with Eric Voorhees on crypto regulation. And it was an absolutely legendary debate. We arranged it after we heard from some friends that SBF was up to mischief in DC. Apparently, they said he was greasing the pockets of lawmakers and working with them on a crypto bill that would make DeFi front ends virtually illegal. Effectively, this would be pulling up the ladder for decentralized finance and accruing more power for his exchange for FTX, and doing all of this under the auspice of practicality. I remember the debate well, and at times, it felt like SBF was almost giving us a lecture. We crypto natives didn't understand how to work with governments. Our values weren't practical. They couldn't win. They were too rigid. Here was a billionaire. Wonderkidden built one of the world's top exchanges in less than four years. What did we know about building business and getting things done in DC? This is the tone of the conversation. Equally, I remember Eric Voorhees with eviscerating arguments and monkish precision. He argued to Sam that crypto is an open, permissionless financial system for the world. It's like the Internet. It's like email. Any society that rejects this technology is a society that rejects fundamental freedom. I felt like Eric's moral clarity pierced through the bullshit like a knife through butter. And David and I watched as SBF absolutely withered under this approach. One thing struck me at the time. It seemed that crypto had made a grave mistake in entrusting so much to people like Sam who didn't share our values. I was so happy to trade them off in some calculated game of maximum expected value. But what I didn't know at the time was how grave that mistake would be. SBF, during the time of our recording, was actually covering up one of the biggest frauds since Bernie Madoff. By that point, at the end of October in 2022, he had gambled away over $8 billion in customer funds. I don't know what his long term plan was. Maybe he was hoping for some way to last long enough to win it all back. Maybe he didn't have a plan. Maybe it was all hubris. But eleven days later, it would all start to come crashing down. I still, to this day, have no idea why he showed up to this debate eleven days before the fall of his kingdom. In fact, I think the debate itself may have been the spark that took him down. I mean, he must regret doing the podcast now, because in the hours and days after the debate, the crypto community turned on him. There was this sense of betrayal, of high alert. And it didn't take us long to sniff out the truth of his fraudhouse. Massive credit to coindust for breaking the story of the Alameda balance sheet. Everything followed from there. Now he's declared guilty in a us court of law after hurting many people, doing incredible damage to this industry that we love. I'm thankful we have a legal consensus process in the US that afforded a fair trial in due process. I'm thankful that justice has been served. The values of SBF and many of those like him in 2022 were stage three cancer that we had to cut out at some point, because if they persisted much longer, they would have been terminal. I'm thankful for the bear market, for giving us the opportunity. I know that criminals and scammers will visit our industry again in the future, and I hope those of us who live through SBF will be wiser the next time. But above all, I think it's important that we remember the true hope of crypto. It's not in another set of bankers like SBF. It's in decentralized finance. It's in holding our own private keys. It's in running our own validator. It's in ethereum. It's in bitcoin. This is the real revolution. This is the bankless revolution, and it's just getting started. Protocols, not people. Code, not kings. Let's get back to going bankless. Hey. Bankless nation is the first Friday of November. David, what time is it? |
Speaker B: Oh, Ryan. It's the bankless Friday weekly roll up, which is always an ambitious endeavor, yet we persevere nonetheless into the frontier. With coffee. But I'm not having coffee because it's 08:54 p.m. for me. |
Speaker A: Okay. Why is it so late? Because you're in a different time zone, right? |
Speaker B: Yeah, different time zone. Also, I took a flight. I was in Amsterdam this morning. I'm now in Lisbon for East Lisbon. Flight was delayed weather in Amsterdam, blah, blah, blah. New podcast setup. |
Speaker A: Here we are. This is crazy. And we've got, like, a new setup today. So we've been tinkering around with that. So it's, it's a lot to get the roll up to you guys, but we hope you appreciate it. We got a lot of topics to talk about. What's coming up next, David is Gary Gensler, and he's coming after PayPal now. Okay, PayPal, it's not even a crypto company, but they're doing crypto things. So of course, Gary is the cop on the beat, as usual. So we'll talk about that. What else? |
Speaker B: The Celestia main net is out along with the Celestia token. Tia, the token. How much was dropped? What is the market cap of Celestia? We're going to get to that. And of course, it's Solana season. I don't know if you've noticed, Ryan, but the, the narrative around crypto Twitter around with a Solana breakpoint going on, which is where I just came from. The Solana people are very happy right now, is in lots because soul price is going up. |
Speaker A: So we want to talk about why that might be happening. I want to get your insight today, but before we get in, we got to shout out our friends and sponsors. David, let's talk about the markets this week. Where is bitcoin looking on the 15th birthday of the bitcoin wiping? We just celebrated that on October 31 earlier this week. Tell us about the prices and we'll get to that. Yeah. |
Speaker B: So up two and a half percent on the week, starting at 3400 100. The last time I checked it, bitcoin was 3400 990. It's bounced off of 35,000 a handful of times. Really trying to get up and above it and trying to hold it. It's flirted with being above 35,000. It's not totally ready yet, but, man, it really wants to be there. |
Speaker A: Look at this. It's just that big candle on. I guess that was the 23 October around that time. |
Speaker B: We call that the coin telegraph candle. |
Speaker A: Yeah, I guess that's what it was, the coin telegraph candle. But we've maintained. That's what's impressive about the last week or so is that we've maintained. So we're up 2.5% on the week. And let's talk a little bit while we're talking about bitcoin, about this momentous occasion. So 15 years is now 15 years after the first publishing of the bitcoin whitepaper by a guy by the name of Satoshi Nakamoto, he released this white paper. The title of this is a peer to peer electronic cash system. And it starts like this. The very first sentence. A purely peer to peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. And, of course, the bank, the first bankless money system, we got to celebrate that. And, of course, within, I think, about 60 days, 64 days, on January 3, the first block of the bitcoin blockchain was officially pushed out to Mainnet. So a short time later, and, uh, you know, bitcoin is doing its own celebration in the charts, too. Have you looked this chart lately, David? This is the, uh, the bitcoin dominance chart. Okay. And I think this is really interesting to look at. We are about 53% bitcoin dominance at this point in time. So. |
Speaker B: Wow, that's really high, mark. The market cap of all of crypto is 53% bitcoin, composed of crypto. Crypto is 53% bitcoin. Right. |
Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. |
Speaker B: That's definitely higher than it's been in a really long time, right? |
Speaker A: Yes. But also a lot lower than it used to be. Back in the heady days of 2014, bitcoin was about 99% dominant. It was about 99% of all crypto. And it's been down since then, but it's popping back up. Okay, it's lows. Bitcoin dominance lows. It hit a low in 2017, late 2017, at the last peak of the bull cycle at about 37%. Okay, that was a low on the dominance. And then a few other lows in 2022 of about 40%. Now it's back up to 53%. So bitcoin on a tear in celebration of its, uh, of its birthday. |
Speaker B: Two and a half year high for bitcoin. Congrats to bitcoin. |
Speaker A: Yeah. You know who else was congratulating bitcoin? David? |
Speaker B: Is this the person who was wishing bitcoin happy birthday? |
Speaker A: It's our secret person. A biggest bitcoin fan, Gary Gensler. He tweets out, if Satoshi. How did Satoshi Nakamoto went as Satoshi Nakamoto for Halloween? Would we be able to tell? That's his hilarious joke. Happy 15th anniversary. Gensler says to Satoshi's favorite white paper that started crypto, and then he says this, david, then he says this. You're going to love this. Any crypto companies that are tricking investors should start treating them to compliance with securities laws. |
Speaker B: He made it about him. Ooh. I hate this man so much. |
Speaker A: Oh, the ultimate troll. I mean, gotta hand it to him, though. That is a pretty good troll of the industry right there. |
Speaker B: Do you remember his April fools troll? |
Speaker A: No. |
Speaker B: He put on the deal with it glasses on, his profile picture. So there's a picture that you're currently seeing. He put, they just deal with it glasses on. And like, to me, I was like, this isn't a trolleye. This is an admission of guilt. It made me so mad. He's like trolling the crypto community. He's like, just deal with it. |
Speaker A: Why are our bureaucrats, like, why are unelected, like, bureaucrats trolling us? |
Speaker B: Trolling us. Yeah. |
Speaker A: It's so weird. Where is that in the job description? |
Speaker B: I mean, this. This tweet is a troll. This is a trolling tweet. He is trolling us with this tweet. |
Speaker A: Any crypto companies that are tricking investors should start treating them to compliance with the securities law. Okay. But of course, bitcoin's okay and he's a celebrating Satoshi Nakamoto. Unbelievable. This is Stanley Druckenmiller, though, had a good quote about bitcoin on the celebratory week. Do you want to hear this, David? |
Speaker B: Yes, please. |
Speaker A: All right, let me play it. Finally, gold and bitcoin. Yeah. I'm 70 years old. I own golden. I was surprised that bitcoin got going. But, you know, it's clear that the young people look at it as a store of value because it's a lot easier to do stuff with. And 17 years, to me, it's a brand. I like gold because it's a 5000 year old brand. But the young people have all the money, or certainly the ones on the west coast. Coast do. So I like them both. I don't own any bitcoin, to be frank, but I should. There you go, David. I don't own any bitcoin, to be frank, but I should. That is Stanley Druckenmiller, legendary Wall street investor, hedge fund, a billionaire worth about $6.2 billion. Too old for bitcoin himself. He says he likes gold. He respects the brand. |
Speaker B: It was too old for bitcoin, but kids love it because this is what we were saying all of last bull market is just like as boomers hand down their wealth to the kids, it's going into crypto. |
Speaker A: Yeah, it's like. It's like, thanks, mom and dad. Thanks, grandma, grandpa. You know where this money's going. |
Speaker B: I don't have. I'll have crypto, of course. |
Speaker A: Yeah. So. And, of course, um, then in January 3 is when the bitcoin blockchain, uh, launch with this legendary headline from the Times chancellor on the brink of second bailout for banks. That's what this revolution has always been about from. From day one, David, a revolution to go bankless. |
Speaker B: Speaking of which, end up repeating some of these bits of news and. |
Speaker A: Yeah, why not? Why not? Speaking of which, David, you want to tell us about the Eth charts for the week? |
Speaker B: Eth price? Yeah, not quite as exciting. Started the week at 1790, up a 1% on the week over to 1810. Got up as high as 1860. Uh, this week. Um, but overall, just. It's just quiet in Eth land these days. |
Speaker A: How about the ratio, David? That's not quite down. |
Speaker B: Yeah, I actually kind of wanted to kill the ratio, but, like, if I did it in this week, it would just be like, you can't do it this week because it's just getting slaughtered. You can't. You can't. |
Speaker A: Wait, wait, wait. We mean kill the ratio, like, never, never? |
Speaker B: Well, I don't, uh. No, like, I'm just saying, like, I don't know if the ratio is relevant to many people. Like, it's kind of what you and I think of, but I can't. I can't kill it now because it's down so bad. Like, okay, okay, we can kill it. |
Speaker A: Yeah. If you killed it now, it'd be capitulated. Yeah, it'd be embarrassing. And by the way, I saw a tweet about this. I think someone tagged you and I. Maybe that's what you're referring to. Vance Spencer goes, only plebs talk about the ratio. Is that why you want to kill it? You don't want to be Vance Spencer pleb? |
Speaker B: I did not see that tweet, but I can understand the point of, like. Yeah, like, it's just a narrow focus of what crypto. Crypto is. I actually. I think we actually either kill the ETH BTC ratio or we add the ETH Solana ratio, which I also don't want to do this. |
Speaker A: I don't think so. I actually. I think the ETH bitcoin ratio is much more durable than people want to are thinking at this point. |
Speaker B: Chris Bernanke likes it. Yeah, I think it's fantastic. According to Vance Spencer, Chris Berninski is a pleb. Do you hear that? |
Speaker A: You know what? Yeah, I. We could start some beef on the bankless podcast. I don't care. I want to. If you don't talk about the ratio, I'm going to talk about the ratio. I think it is still a very important metric, and we should keep it in the roll up. But let's talk about the cryptocurrency market. Yeah, market cap. What are we at on the week? |
Speaker B: Happy numbers. I think we were at 1.29 last week. We were at 1.34 this week. So there is some healthy, sustained growth in the total crypto market cap. I mean, that's what happens when bitcoin dominance is like, at 54%. |
Speaker A: David, tell me about some tokens that moved in the last seven days, one of which is the Sol token. So, yeah, the other one's not. The other's not a token. Okay. 30% on the week for the Solana token and 62% on the two week. So absolutely monster movement for, for Solana. I think on the month, that's about 72% over the last 30 days. There's pretty, pretty crazy upside here. |
Speaker B: No? Like Solana, the soul tokens. The Solana narrative has definitely taken a lot of the oxygen out of the room this week over the. I've been at Solana breakpoint for the past, uh, like, four or five days. And generally, as, like, a rule of thumb, when I open up my phone and I check prices and I'm like, oh, I'm about to refresh and the price is going to be higher, and then it is. And if you do that, like, six times in a row, that's when I start to call froth. And so I did that between the prices of, like, 40 and $44 of, like, I'm just going to refresh it. It's going to be higher. That's froth. So, I mean, like, it can, like, mellow out for a little bit and then go up later. But, like, man, when you just know that, you just refresh and it's a higher and it is for five times in a row. That's Roth. |
Speaker A: That that's when you know. That's when you know things are getting frothy. Um, is there an explanation for this? So this is from Vance Spencer. We're just talking about him. He says this. Always surprised there are people who actually short crypto. I think he's talking about people shorting Solana. Um, look at the soul chart. Clearly someone just got carted out. In my opinion, most crypto shorts are people trying to run a tradfi esque long, short book. They think, we are playing in the NBA, sir. We are playing slam ball in a bounce castle. Slam ball in a bounce castle. What's going on here, David? Is Vance implying that people are actually trying to short the soul token? |
Speaker B: Yeah, well, this is what he's saying. So $16 million of salon short is just, like, a lot of momentary buy pressure all at once, which is what he is saying is, like, one of the reasons why sole price is going up, at least. At least going up so quickly and so violently. Like, it's going up. It went up in just, like, so much in, like, four to five days, but it's also been going up for, like, two weeks straight. And so, like, this, this one person who just, like, got liquidated on the short side of things definitely is helping with the sole price. But also, I would just say, like, Solana narrative is just, like, really, really strong right now, which is because of the price, which, like, actually feeds back into the price. It's just all season. |
Speaker A: Yeah. Tell me about the Solana conference. So you were there, feet on the ground. So, yeah. What was it like? What's, what's, what's the vibe? |
Speaker B: Yeah. So I went to the Solana conference breakpoint. This is the third breakpoint. The first was in Lisbon, fun fact. Which is where I am now at 20, 2021, when Solana Price was, like, $250. And apparently it was just like, absolute, just fest of money just flying everywhere. Somebody had some party, had the cops roll up to the house, and they're like, you guys can't have a party like this. And they're like, we'll buy the house. And the cops was like, that wasn't a solution. Was that last? |
Speaker A: Are you talking about last? |
Speaker B: That was 2021. That was, like, in December 2021. So, like, peak of the market. Anyways, so this one, it was in Amsterdam, kind of outside of the city. Maybe like 1000, 502,000 people that were there, maybe like 50 50 community builders and investors, maybe, maybe more. On the builder side, definitely kind of felt like an inner circle of communities, a community that had banded together that all felt like, yo, we are sitting on something really, really, like, powerful here and really, really cool. Kind of felt like 2018 to 2019 ethereum, when, like, you, me, and all of the other Ethereum people were like, yo, like, there's something here and everyone else doesn't see it. And that's crazy. Except that salon people know that that's happened once before. So, like, they, I feel like they have a little bit more conviction is kind of my hot take. The archetype of people at the Solana conference is just like these low level engineers that understand the relationship between hardware and software at the point where hardware becomes software like, that intersection, like, really low level engineers, like X SpaceX x Tesla x Google types. Yeah, I think that these are kind of all my hot takes. Not even all that hot. Just my sit rep. Like, the reason why I wanted to go to the Solana conference. Like, what the hell is David doing a Solana conference? Um, it just turns out, like, if you want to get a. Like, a vibe check for what Solana is, like, you don't do it through crypto Twitter, because the Solana people on crypto Twitter are super toxic. Um, which is perhaps, like, people, like, mys fault and something I'm working on. Um. Uh, so I just wanted to go, like, drink from the faucet myself. Uh, and so I recorded an episode with Austin from the Aslana foundation in Anatoly. Uh, that'll be out on Tuesday, I believe. Out on Tuesday. Yeah. |
Speaker A: Well, very cool. There's also another big move around the week. It's not a token, though. It is a coin, the stock. So what's coin up to? And I believe as of our recording, because we're recording so late on a Thursday, the Q three update, the quarterly earnings report for Coinbase, has just been updated. I don't know if that's reflected in the price of coin. Looks like we're up in the post market trading, but, yeah. What's. What's coin been doing lately? |
Speaker B: I don't know if it is up. It was up almost 9% today pre market, and then as soon as, oh. |
Speaker A: It'S down post market. |
Speaker B: It dumped a bunch. Yeah. So it's down post market, but, okay, up 8.75% pre market, down four and a half percent post market. So still up, like, 4% on the day. I guess it didn't totally like the earnings earnings report, but overall, I would say just nothing. Not all that bad. I mean, it's up 4% in the day, so it was a good day. The coin price has been up just 5% on the week, so I guess pretty modest. But I think just. I've seen more and more people just pay attention to coin lately. |
Speaker A: All right, let's turn to some bigger markets beyond crypto. Let's talk about us GDP, because some numbers came in last week as well. So US GDP grew at 4.9% annual pace in the third quarter. That's a pretty big quarter. Look at this. That's large, chunky. So, last quarter, Q two is 2.1%. The quarter before, 2.2%. This is a monster 4.9% quarter. Compare that to. Should I compare that to 2022. In the third quarter it was 2.7%. 2021 was 3.3%. So pretty big quarter for GDP as far as quarters go. |
Speaker B: David, big plus one to there's no recession happening. This is a big plus one to Fed is going to keep rates higher for longer because apparently the economy can take it. I like the idea of not having a recession. That's good. |
Speaker A: Yeah, you're right about the Fed, because they did hold rates steady. So that was a decision that came in this week. They are holding the Fed funds rate between 5.25% and 5.5%. This is the second meeting in a row that they have held rates steady. Preceding that, though, the last eleven times before the last two times they increased rates. So Holden, steady and Powell said that the Fed is not considering or even discussing rate reductions at this time, I guess, especially back on a GDP for a quarter like that. So that's what the Fed is doing, David, and switching back to crypto, though, let's talk a little bit about liquidity in particular. Stablecoin liquidity. This is a tweet from Nick Carter. What's he saying here? |
Speaker B: David Nicard is calling the bottom of stablecoin supply. And if you've been paying attention to bank list for a while, we kind of think that stable coin supply in crypto is basically synonymous with liquidity. The number of dollars that we have in our industry is going to be a very strong indicator to how much liquidity that we actually have. And so Nicar has the chart from the block, just of all the stable coins out there, tether, USDC, Dai BUSD and all the other ones. And I mean, it's been down ever since terra Luna, and it went down really, really fast with terra Luna. And then it's just kind of been slowly tapering out ever since then. It's been down, it's been down for like two plus years now, and it's looking like it's starting to go back up. And this is what Nick Carter is saying is he is calling the bottom of stablecoin supply. And if you believe that this is the bottom of stablecoin supply, hence, ergo, that liquidity in crypto is up only. What happens when you have more liquidity in your assets, they go up in price is what they do. More liquidity, higher prices. And so this has been something that we've said along with our Jim Bianco podcast. Just like when you see stable coin supply trending upwards, you can be bullish, you will have permission to be bullish. And so this is a bullish indicator. |
Speaker A: Yeah. So we are one step before we're starting to see it increase. But maybe it's bottom. David, I wouldn't be surprised, right. About 120 billion or so in total stable coin supply. I would not be surprised if this market cycle, we hit a trillion, we think about that. |
Speaker B: Yes, I agree. I agree. Right. Because I mean, what's the one thing that has product market fit in? Crypto? It's stable coins. |
Speaker A: Stable coins and treasuries, particularly if you include treasuries in that as well. David, what do we have coming up next? |
Speaker B: Coming up next, SBF takes the stand. I'll give you the recap. Did he land the Hail Mary? Place your bets. I know where I'm placed my bets. Nick Carter versus the Wall Street Journal, part two. He is, he's got a bone to pick and he has definitely picked it. And there's just going to be so much more. A $2.7 billion mainnet drops. We're going to get to all of these details and more, but first, a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors. Ryan, what are you showing me on my screen? |
Speaker A: I'm showing you a glorious picture of our friend. Actually, not our friend, but previous podcast guests. Let me just say that Sam Bankman fried. He's on the stand. That is a cartoon drawing. I don't think they quite captured his essence. |
Speaker B: I would say he was drawing so much blush on. |
Speaker A: The hair's a little shorter. I don't know, the facial expression is not quite the same. Yeah, the ears are a little engorged. But here he is on the stand. What? What was he doing on the stand? All right, this is a follow up from last week where apparently Sam's like throwing the Hail Mary pass, probably against all the advice of his lawyers. But maybe not. Maybe they're like, wow, what does this guy have to lose? Put him on the stand. And so he gets up on the stand. What did he say? David, what on earth could this man say to us? |
Speaker B: Yeah, but first, I really set the stage here. If you go on the stand, you get to spout your truth because your lawyer, your own lawyer, will underhand you all of the right questions. It'll be perfect. You can just knock him out of the park and then the prosecution gets a turn. So it's a, it's a bargain that. |
Speaker A: Have to do this. David, didn't he have to do a pre show with the judge? It was just like him and the judge. They sent all the jurors out. I think that happened, like, last Thursday? |
Speaker B: That did happen. That was, like, an anomaly there. They needed to, like, be able to determine which is valid to present the. |
Speaker A: Judge what was admissible in court. So the judge was like, eh, okay, I'll let this go. Right, okay. And so then he went in front of the jury, which is what we're talking about now. |
Speaker B: Yep, exactly. Okay. So last week, again, going back on Friday. Friday, Thursday, and Friday was when the defense, SBF's lawyer, was able to ask SBF questions. And so that was last Friday. We weren't able to cover that because we do weekly rolls on Thursdays. So that ended in a cliffhanger because SBF took the stand and was questioned by the defense. And the vibe that I got from just a handful of people doing reporting on that day was that Sam was extremely prepared. Obviously actually did a good job of stringing coherent sentences together, and probably because he had his adderall and was overall able to produce a nugget of convincing compassion for his side of the story. So, like, this is the one moment where people were like, maybe he did just. |
Speaker A: Maybe there's a chance. |
Speaker B: Maybe there's a chance. Right. And this all ended on Friday. So after Sam was able to kind of give a more glowing perception of himself on the jury, went away for the weekend, they were able to sleep on that for, like, multiple things. |
Speaker A: What kind of things was he saying? Like, oh, it's just, you know, growing pains. I heard someone say. Or like, oh, I delegated too much to the wrong people. I kind of lost sight of what I was, how I was managing this. |
Speaker B: It was my subordinate. Yeah, it was really unfortunate. It was an accident. Whoopsies. I've learned a lot could have happened to anybody. Yeah, right. Okay, so at the very end of Friday, the judge ends by saying, okay, we're gonna resume with Sam on the stand on Monday with the prosecution doing a cross examination to which. |
Speaker A: Yes. |
Speaker B: Like, to which the prosecution said something to the effect of, yes, we certainly will. It will be long, and we are very interested in it. Oh, my God. Basically, the prosecution is like, let's fucking go. Let's do this. |
Speaker A: Rolling up their sleeves. All right, we're doing this. |
Speaker B: Okay. And that was. So next week comes, and the prosecution just gets to go after Sam Bankman freed. And the prosecution apparently just had, like, layup after layup to herself. |
Speaker A: You know what? As a prosecutor, I would be overwhelmed at, like. Like, there would be too many options. |
Speaker B: Where do I even start? Yeah, apparently there was just a number of times where, like, the prosecution asked Sam Bankman fried about, like, did you ever say this thing in this way? And, like, it was such a specific way of asking the question where, like, the entire courtroom and all the audience was like, oh, she's got something. There's no. There's no way that Sam can answer anything without falling right into her trap. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So some of. Just some of the themes here. SBF increasingly relied on not remembering, especially as the day went on. He said, I do not recall in his answers, 104 times, and also answered, yep, 200, 282 times. |
Speaker A: Wait, wait, there was 100 more. I do not recalls. On one day. |
Speaker B: Yes, on one day. |
Speaker A: On. |
Speaker B: Just on Monday. And, like, you know. You know, the Sam bank matried the. Yep. Yep. |
Speaker A: Oh, yeah. |
Speaker B: Yep. Like, 282. Imagine. Imagine listening to 282 spf. Yep. Just on Monday. |
Speaker A: No, I can't. |
Speaker B: Shoot me in the face. Okay. So Sam denied that he and Caroline ever discussed the seven alternative balance sheets, like Caroline claimed. SVS version of the story was that Caroline just sent him one balance sheet, and it was referred to as alt. |
Speaker A: Seven, which she must have made up the other six, huh? |
Speaker B: Yeah, she just didn't show him one through six. Of course, he said that he did not know about Alameda's problems. He said Sam was surprised and concerned when he learned about Alameda's potential bankruptcy in June of 2022 due to a bug and it had an $8 billion fiat liability to FTX. He was surprised to learn these things in June of 2022. He said that there were risk management mistakes, said that mistakes were made at Alameda, not hedging against an investment in some bitcoin miner thing. That lack of hedging allegedly led to a loss of over $10 billion. He denied the existence of a risk department at FTX and Alameda, and he claimed that he just trusted the wrong people. Blame challenges like working at a startup. It was like building a plane while flying it. He said he was asked about how Alameda research was able to spend $8 billion of FTX customer deposits, and to which he responded, I deeply regret not taking a closer look into it. |
Speaker A: I bet he regrets it. |
Speaker B: Yeah. And when the lawyer pressed him about the specifics of the $8 billion SPF, said, money is fungible. Anyways, I wasn't particularly interested in trying to dole out blame over how and why the money was used at all. If there's one thing I know about Sam Bankman Fried is that he definitely thinks money is fungible. It's like, oh, just like, spend this money here, and that money there. |
Speaker A: To be fair, I also think money is fungible. As you do. Right. It's pretty hard to argue with that line of defense, but if I had. |
Speaker B: An exchange, I would still consolidate accounts and separate them differently. |
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