Answers.Body: <p>My experience is that 'Employer' field <em>does</em> get populated after adding the relationship directly.
  However the Job Title field is not related to the relationship and that wouldn't get populated, as it's a field on the contact record only.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-25T05:03:16.557Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-02-25T05:03:16.557Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: MickC
Answers.Body: <p>Surely the point here is that the Job Title field should be linked to the Employee/Employer relationship record and not the contact record. In cases where an individual may have more than one employee relationship, they will also quite likely have different job titles in each context. This is a case of confusion for at least one org that I work with.</p>
  <p>The Current Employer field is another weird one. It does not get auto-populated if an employee/employer relationship is created, but if a current employer is manually added, and a matching relationship record doesn't exist, one does get created. Current Employer implies that there can be only one, which is of course nonsense. Probably should be able to be turned off on a preferences page.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-01-14T22:48:26.770Z
Answers.Text: I concur with your points about connecting Job Title to the relationship, and the concept of a single current employment. That said perhaps some clarification re 'current employer' (for benefit of others unless i am misrecalling). The 'current employer' does get set when adding via the Contact Summary screen. It does get added eg via the 'On behalf of Org' option on Contribution pages. When 'add relationship' is used, then it is available as an option (and preset as ticked) once 'employee of' is chosen (at least that is what i observe today on dmaster)
Answers.UserDisplayName: petednz - fuzion
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-01-14T09:28:28.893Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-01-14T09:28:28.893Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Graham
Body: <p>Apparently there is a design flaw in the current employer and job title fields in Civi. </p>
  
  <p>"If you enter or amend these fields through the edit of a contact, a corresponding employment relationship will be established. Unfortunately, if you create an employment relationship directly then the two fields do not get updated. Likewise, if an employment relationship becomes non current or is deleted, then the two fields do not get updated."</p>
  
  <p>Does anyone know about this and how can I  get around it? I am entering job titles for contacts. Civi says it saves them. When I open the contacts the next day, the updates have not occurred. </p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-04T23:21:27.480Z
Comments.Text: Can you clarify what you mean by: Unfortunately, if you create an employment relationship directly then the two fields do not get updated.
Comments.UserDisplayName: themak
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-04T23:32:30.550Z
Comments.Text: A lot of our contacts have the job title field blank. I have been updating this field for many contacts. It says that Civi has saved it, but I go in the next day and it is blank again. Because of the alleged design flaw you have to update the job title field through the "employee of" relationship. I have tried this but it does not seem to work. I don't understand why you cannot update a key field by editing the contact directly.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Phillip Money
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-04T23:35:24.337Z
Comments.Text: Do you have an extension installed or something that is related? Normally job title and employer are completely separate fields, and there isn't even a field or option to update job title from the relationship.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Demerit
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-04T23:37:25.703Z
Comments.Text: We have no extensions installed. Apparently when you update the Employee Of field you put the job title in the description. I have told that the job title field will not update because of a design flaw in Civi. I presume that people in the Civi community would know about this.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Phillip Money
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-04T23:42:34.067Z
Comments.Text: Can you take screenshot? I just tried this in dmaster - everything worked correctly.
  Former job titles do not save - if you update the job title - it replaces whatever was there originally. As for employer - that's working correctly too.
Comments.UserDisplayName: themak
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-04T23:43:57.337Z
Comments.Text: You said "when you update the Employee Of field you put the job title in the description" - where did you see instructions that that's how to update job title?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Demerit
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-06T22:12:09.367Z
Comments.Text: you may want to compare your set up with https://dmaster.demo.civicrm.org/
Comments.UserDisplayName: petednz - fuzion
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-07T23:04:44.000Z
Comments.Text: Thanks everyone for your comments. The way our instance of Civi is set up, the job title field does not update although Civi says it does. I have been told to enter the job title in the description of "Employee Of" relationship. I did this, but it did not seem to work. The issue is that the update occurs the next day. When I enter the job title in the description field of the "Employee Of" relationship nothing occurs. The next day the Job Title field is updated. This is all completely bizarre, but it works. Petednz, I can't check our set up as I do not have admin access.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Phillip Money
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-08T02:08:39.117Z
Comments.Text: It sounds like your instance of Civi has been customized to (a) execute a daily cron script that goes and updates titles from descriptions, and possibly (b) show some instructions on the screen about editing description or some message when you save. The cron script might not be in an extension it might be standalone somewhere or in a CMS plugin, and the instructions/message might be from template/file overrides which might not be in an extension either.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Demerit
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-25T10:13:15.313Z
Comments.Text: You may want to have a look at this question which explains most of the behaviour: https://civicrm.stackexchange.com/questions/34572/whats-the-difference-between-job-title-and-employer-relationship-description/34577#34577
Comments.UserDisplayName: Fabian
Tags: <contacts><fields>
Title: Design flaw in current employer and job title
ThreadText: # Design flaw in current employer and job title
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2020-02-04)
  
  Apparently there is a design flaw in the current employer and job title fields in Civi.
  
  "If you enter or amend these fields through the edit of a contact, a corresponding employment relationship will be established. Unfortunately, if you create an employment relationship directly then the two fields do not get updated. Likewise, if an employment relationship becomes non current or is deleted, then the two fields do not get updated."
  
  Does anyone know about this and how can I get around it? I am entering job titles for contacts. Civi says it saves them. When I open the contacts the next day, the updates have not occurred.
  
  **Tags:** contacts, fields
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Can you clarify what you mean by: Unfortunately, if you create an employment relationship directly then the two fields do not get updated.  
  > **username_0**: A lot of our contacts have the job title field blank. I have been updating this field for many contacts. It says that Civi has saved it, but I go in the next day and it is blank again. Because of the alleged design flaw you have to update the job title field through the "employee of" relationship. I have tried this but it does not seem to work. I don't understand why you cannot update a key field by editing the contact directly.  
  > **username_2**: Do you have an extension installed or something that is related? Normally job title and employer are completely separate fields, and there isn't even a field or option to update job title from the relationship.  
  > **username_0**: We have no extensions installed. Apparently when you update the Employee Of field you put the job title in the description. I have told that the job title field will not update because of a design flaw in Civi. I presume that people in the Civi community would know about this.  
  > **username_1**: Can you take screenshot? I just tried this in dmaster - everything worked correctly. Former job titles do not save - if you update the job title - it replaces whatever was there originally. As for employer - that's working correctly too.  
  > **username_2**: You said "when you update the Employee Of field you put the job title in the description" - where did you see instructions that that's how to update job title?  
  > **username_3**: you may want to compare your set up with https://dmaster.demo.civicrm.org/  
  > **username_0**: Thanks everyone for your comments. The way our instance of Civi is set up, the job title field does not update although Civi says it does. I have been told to enter the job title in the description of "Employee Of" relationship. I did this, but it did not seem to work. The issue is that the update occurs the next day. When I enter the job title in the description field of the "Employee Of" relationship nothing occurs. The next day the Job Title field is updated. This is all completely bizarre, but it works. username_3, I can't check our set up as I do not have admin access.  
  > **username_2**: It sounds like your instance of Civi has been customized to (a) execute a daily cron script that goes and updates titles from descriptions, and possibly (b) show some instructions on the screen about editing description or some message when you save. The cron script might not be in an extension it might be standalone somewhere or in a CMS plugin, and the instructions/message might be from template/file overrides which might not be in an extension either.  
  > **username_4**: You may want to have a look at this question which explains most of the behaviour: https://civicrm.stackexchange.com/questions/34572/whats-the-difference-between-job-title-and-employer-relationship-description/34577#34577  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2020-02-25. Score: 2
  
  My experience is that 'Employer' field *does* get populated after adding the relationship directly.
  However the Job Title field is not related to the relationship and that wouldn't get populated, as it's a field on the contact record only.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2022-01-14. Score: 1
  
  Surely the point here is that the Job Title field should be linked to the Employee/Employer relationship record and not the contact record. In cases where an individual may have more than one employee relationship, they will also quite likely have different job titles in each context. This is a case of confusion for at least one org that I work with.
  
  The Current Employer field is another weird one. It does not get auto-populated if an employee/employer relationship is created, but if a current employer is manually added, and a matching relationship record doesn't exist, one does get created. Current Employer implies that there can be only one, which is of course nonsense. Probably should be able to be turned off on a preferences page.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: I concur with your points about connecting Job Title to the relationship, and the concept of a single current employment. That said perhaps some clarification re 'current employer' (for benefit of others unless i am misrecalling). The 'current employer' does get set when adding via the Contact Summary screen. It does get added eg via the 'On behalf of Org' option on Contribution pages. When 'add relationship' is used, then it is available as an option (and preset as ticked) once 'employee of' is chosen (at least that is what i observe today on dmaster)  
  
  ---
  
  