<p>For some reason stackoverflow has a 50 reputation limit on comments, so I must use the answer box to point out that Karlo's answer is not correct - or at least does not tell the whole story. I understand that this is not the correct use for the answer box, blame stackoverflow's poorly thought out reputation limits.</p>

<p>I have a node with a few (outgoing) channels, have not spent a single satoshi with it yet. So the "remote balance" of the channels has always been 0, in other words there have been no balance updates. Yet the number of updates in the channels is non-zero.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-19T12:56:26.640Z
Updates can include changes to (on-chain) transaction fees. By default `num_updates` will also always be `>0` if the channel is fully established, because there is a required update between the channel's initial funding and the funds being locked.
Mark H
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-19T13:45:46.847Z
The `num_updates` metrics are also not 1, closer to 10.
kekcoin
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-19T11:32:23.377Z
2019-04-19T11:32:23.377Z
kekcoin
<p>A channel update can be a new payment routed via the channel (balances need to get update so a new commitment is generate), new fees negotiation (fee uncooperative  channel closure), a request of CSV change by the other party (value in which your node will be able to sweep funds if you close the channel in a uncooperative way) among others...</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-20T04:35:14.467Z
Is this documented anywhere?
J.P.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-20T12:35:50.217Z
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/090af1a22d00eb7ad57419eb45d7e206610aeade/02-peer-protocol.md#committing-updates-so-far-commitment_signed
João de Almeida
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-19T22:08:10.107Z
2019-04-19T22:08:10.107Z
João de Almeida
<p>When a payment is done, the channel states update.</p>

<p>Your channel might start with a balance of 100 000. This is all on your side.</p>

<p>Then a payment is done of 10 000. The channel gets updated: your side has 90 000, the remote side has 10 000. </p>

<p>Any update, or: "payment" beyond this point is an update.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-06-28T04:52:26.300Z
As mentioned above, num_updates is incremented for fee changes, CSV limit changes, and other non-payment updates.
Sachin Meier
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-19T11:01:40.593Z
2019-04-19T11:01:40.593Z
Karel
<p>Some LND wallets provide a channel's "Number of Updates". Here's an example from <a href="https://github.com/LN-Zap/zap-desktop" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Zap Desktop</a>:</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/eWp6p.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/eWp6p.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>The <a href="https://api.lightning.community/#channel" rel="nofollow noreferrer">LND gRPC API Channel Reference</a> cites a property called <code>num_updates</code>. The description of this field is not very informative:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>The total number of updates conducted within this channel.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>What specifically is a channel update?</p>

<terminology><lightning-network-daemon>
What does channel num_updates mean?
J.P.
# What does channel num_updates mean?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-04-19)

Some LND wallets provide a channel's "Number of Updates". Here's an example from [Zap Desktop](https://github.com/LN-Zap/zap-desktop):

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/eWp6p.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/eWp6p.png)

The [LND gRPC API Channel Reference](https://api.lightning.community/#channel) cites a property called `num_updates`. The description of this field is not very informative:

> The total number of updates conducted within this channel.

What specifically is a channel update?

**Tags:** terminology, lightning-network-daemon


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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-04-19. Score: 1

For some reason stackoverflow has a 50 reputation limit on comments, so I must use the answer box to point out that Karlo's answer is not correct - or at least does not tell the whole story. I understand that this is not the correct use for the answer box, blame stackoverflow's poorly thought out reputation limits.

I have a node with a few (outgoing) channels, have not spent a single satoshi with it yet. So the "remote balance" of the channels has always been 0, in other words there have been no balance updates. Yet the number of updates in the channels is non-zero.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Updates can include changes to (on-chain) transaction fees. By default `num_updates` will also always be `>0` if the channel is fully established, because there is a required update between the channel's initial funding and the funds being locked.  
> **username_1**: The `num_updates` metrics are also not 1, closer to 10.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2019-04-19. Score: 0

A channel update can be a new payment routed via the channel (balances need to get update so a new commitment is generate), new fees negotiation (fee uncooperative channel closure), a request of CSV change by the other party (value in which your node will be able to sweep funds if you close the channel in a uncooperative way) among others...

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Is this documented anywhere?  
> **username_3**: https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/090af1a22d00eb7ad57419eb45d7e206610aeade/02-peer-protocol.md#committing-updates-so-far-commitment_signed  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2019-04-19. Score: -1

When a payment is done, the channel states update.

Your channel might start with a balance of 100 000. This is all on your side.

Then a payment is done of 10 000. The channel gets updated: your side has 90 000, the remote side has 10 000.

Any update, or: "payment" beyond this point is an update.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: As mentioned above, num_updates is incremented for fee changes, CSV limit changes, and other non-payment updates.  

---

