Answers.Body: <p>There were two types of drinks back in that time. Beer and Wine. Both hardly resembled what they are today. Beer was very weak, under 4% alcohol, while wine was probably in the normal range of 12-14%. Distilling had not been invented by the Muslims until 700 A.D. (anno Domini). If I apply Occam's Razor here, I would say that it's wine and probably a higher end wine because the more expensive wines were more alcoholic. As I mentioned in my other answer, you want to get your hands on some Retsina or that other Israeli wine being made in an ancient manner.</p>
  
  <p>I'm adding the Wikipedia page on there about this exact passage.. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Alcohol in the Bible</a></p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>"strong drink"; "denotes any inebriating drink with about 7–10 percent alcoholic content, not hard liquor, because there is no evidence of distilled liquor in ancient times.... It was made from either fruit and/or barley beer"; the term can include wine, but generally it is used in combination with it ("wine and strong drink") to encompass all varieties of intoxicants</p>
  </blockquote>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-24T18:10:50.427Z
Answers.Text: distillation was written about by Greek alchemists in the 1st Century AD. It didn't spread to Europe, though, as a fully-fledged process until the late 700s
Answers.UserDisplayName: warren
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-24T20:21:58.257Z
Answers.Text: And I'm sure someone left some wine outside one night and it froze solid, except for the alcohol and they invented freeze distillation way before this process...
Answers.UserDisplayName: farmersteve
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-18T16:13:34.047Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2018-05-27T14:40:10.853Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2018-05-27T14:40:10.853Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: farmersteve
Answers.Body: <h2>The Quotation</h2>
  <p>Firstly, I shall examine the passage in the original Greek:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>ἔσται γὰρ μέγας ἐνώπιον τοῦ Κυρίου, καὶ οἶνον καὶ σίκερα οὐ μὴ πίῃ, καὶ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου πλησθήσεται ἔτι ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς αὐτοῦ.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>The two words we are intereted in here are 'οἶνον' ('wine'), and 'σίκερα' ('strong drink'). The second ('σίκερα') is interesting in that it is a loan word directly from the Hebrew word 'שכר' (transliterated 'shekar'). The two (in both languages) are usually used in conjunction with each other, to form the phrase 'wine and strong drink' to encompass the whole variety of intoxicants. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible#Hebrew" rel="nofollow noreferrer">[1]</a></p>
  <h2>The Wine</h2>
  <p>Wine was the ubiquitous alcoholic beverage of the ancient world. The process by which the ancient peoples made wine was simple. First, they pressed grapes into grape juice, then they left the juice in large earthenware jars to ferment. Fermentation took two weeks to a month. Distillation had not yet been discovered, so Roman wine was of about the same strength as modern wine (around 13%), or possibly a bit stronger.</p>
  <p>While Romans traditionally diluted their wine with water (roughly one part wine to two parts water), making it a beverage that could be drunk all day long, without danger of drunkenness, people living in provinces, such as Judea, are not supposed to have done so. That said, it is likely that the Roman officials did dilute their wine, in keeping with the custom back in Rome. Because of this, it is also likely that citizens wishing to curry their favour might also have adopted this custom. The Greeks also diluted their wine (roughly one part wine to four parts water). <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alcoholic_drinks#Rome" rel="nofollow noreferrer">[2]</a></p>
  <h2>Other Alcohols</h2>
  <p>Other alcohols included beer, which became significantly less popular than wine. In particular, wealthy Romans looked down on the drinking of beer. Tacitus (writing much later, in the 1st Century AD) wrote disparagingly of German beer. Barley wine (a type of strong ale, roughly 6-11%) existed, as well as alcohols made from whatever fruits might be growing in the vicinity. For example, when Caesar arrived in Britain in 55BC, he found the locals drinking an apple cider, a custom he and his men adopted with enthusiasm. <a href="http://drinkfocus.com/beer/history-of-apple-cider/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">[3]</a></p>
  <p>I have not be able to find any evidence for the consumption of distilled spirits or liqueurs.</p>
  <h2>Abstention</h2>
  <p>Abstaining from alcohol was not as easy then as it might be now. Since a large proportion of running water was (and still is) undrinkable, ancient peoples turned to alcohol (in particular wine) as a daily staple, giving them the fluid they needed. The water mixed with wine would be (somewhat) sterilised, allowing it to be drunk, and making the wine go further. One assumes that John must have drunk water only, or at least non-alcoholic juices (grape, etc.). There is reference in the bible to non-alcoholic wines, although this is rare.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T01:31:15.340Z
Answers.Text: A very very informative answer, thank you for your research! +1
Answers.UserDisplayName: Chris Cirefice
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T12:52:19.543Z
Answers.Text: @ChrisCirefice Thanks. I'm very interested in Classics, so this one was right up my street. I just needed to check a few of the things that I thought I knew.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Socrates
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T19:09:52.250Z
Answers.Text: +1 for quoting the original Greek. BTW, while I'm not familiar with Biblical Hebrew, the Akkadian cognate *šikaru* (which could well also be a source of the Greek word, directly or indirectly) is conventionally translated as "beer" (in the general sense of a drink brewed from grain, typically barley), although depending on the context, region and era, it sometimes appears to have been used to refer to other fermented beverages (including wine!) as well.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Ilmari Karonen
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-21T05:17:05.697Z
Answers.Text: I am voting this up as it is fascinating reading.
Answers.UserDisplayName: dougal 5.0.0
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-31T19:16:35.273Z
Answers.Text: I disagree with the statement "there were no spirits, or liqueurs". As stated in a comment to the answer given by @Steve S., it would really be a stretch to think that people did not know about concentrating alcohol beverages by freeze separation. Anybody whom left a mug of wine outside on a cold night, then removed the ice and drank it, would have been consuming a spirit, no?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jimmy Fix-it
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-31T20:30:33.153Z
Answers.Text: @JimmyFix-it I have clarified the statement.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Socrates
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-05-08T15:52:03.773Z
Answers.Text: @JimmyFixIt, Since the OP specifically mentioned John the Baptist, we can reasonable assume that he was referring to the Roman province of Judea and except for very extraordinary times, it doesn't get cold enough to use cold distilling.
Answers.UserDisplayName: CharlieHorse
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-16T12:51:32.747Z
Answers.Text: @DLosc A rather silly mistake; thank you! I'm also no longer sure where I got the information about undiluted wine in the provinces. It looks somewhat suspect, but I'll leave it for now.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Socrates
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-18T21:33:08.487Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-09-16T12:46:22.423Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2022-09-16T12:46:22.423Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Socrates
Answers.Body: <p>Surely mead, honey wine, should be considered. Okay, I had to google this one: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead" rel="noreferrer">Wiki says</a> that residual evidence has been found in northern Chinese pottery vessels dating from 6500–7000 BC, and in Europe in the ceramics of the Bell Beaker Culture (c. 2800–1800 BC). Wiki goes on to tell us that, contemporaneous to John the Baptist, Greeks and Romans were imbibing it.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T00:53:29.267Z
Answers.Text: Mead was never a mainstream drink in the Mediterranean area at that time. Wine and Beer were by far the most drunk beverages...
Answers.UserDisplayName: farmersteve
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T01:23:15.103Z
Answers.Text: @SteveS. Does not have to be "mainstream" to be correct in this question.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Ken Graham
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-03-18T20:32:40.640Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-03-18T20:32:40.640Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Giorgio
Body: <p>For those who are familiar with the New Testament, we know the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist" rel="noreferrer">St John the Baptist</a> never drank wine or strong drink.</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. - <a href="http://biblehub.com/luke/1-15.htm" rel="noreferrer">Luke 1:15 (KJV)</a></p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>My question is as follows: <strong>What type of strong drinks existed in Palestine during the time of St John the Baptist (1st century BC)?</strong></p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T00:55:06.733Z
Comments.Text: Could strong drink be some type of tea? Not black tea like we know but some herbal concoction
Comments.UserDisplayName: farmersteve
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-03-19T00:59:45.153Z
Comments.Text: @SteveS.Perhaps! It is up to interpretation!
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ken Graham
Tags: <history><drink>
Title: Strong drink at the time of St John the Baptist
UserDisplayName: Ken Graham
ThreadText: # Strong drink at the time of St John the Baptist
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2017-03-18)
  
  For those who are familiar with the New Testament, we know the [St John the Baptist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist) never drank wine or strong drink.
  
  > For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. - [Luke 1:15 (KJV)](http://biblehub.com/luke/1-15.htm)
  
  My question is as follows: **What type of strong drinks existed in Palestine during the time of St John the Baptist (1st century BC)?**
  
  **Tags:** history, drink
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Could strong drink be some type of tea? Not black tea like we know but some herbal concoction  
  > **username_0**: @SteveS.Perhaps! It is up to interpretation!  
  
  ---
  
  ## 3 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2017-03-18. Score: 27 | Accepted answer
  
  ## The Quotation
  
  Firstly, I shall examine the passage in the original Greek:
  
  > ἔσται γὰρ μέγας ἐνώπιον τοῦ Κυρίου, καὶ οἶνον καὶ σίκερα οὐ μὴ πίῃ, καὶ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου πλησθήσεται ἔτι ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς αὐτοῦ.
  
  The two words we are intereted in here are 'οἶνον' ('wine'), and 'σίκερα' ('strong drink'). The second ('σίκερα') is interesting in that it is a loan word directly from the Hebrew word 'שכר' (transliterated 'shekar'). The two (in both languages) are usually used in conjunction with each other, to form the phrase 'wine and strong drink' to encompass the whole variety of intoxicants. [[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible#Hebrew)
  
  ## The Wine
  
  Wine was the ubiquitous alcoholic beverage of the ancient world. The process by which the ancient peoples made wine was simple. First, they pressed grapes into grape juice, then they left the juice in large earthenware jars to ferment. Fermentation took two weeks to a month. Distillation had not yet been discovered, so Roman wine was of about the same strength as modern wine (around 13%), or possibly a bit stronger.
  
  While Romans traditionally diluted their wine with water (roughly one part wine to two parts water), making it a beverage that could be drunk all day long, without danger of drunkenness, people living in provinces, such as Judea, are not supposed to have done so. That said, it is likely that the Roman officials did dilute their wine, in keeping with the custom back in Rome. Because of this, it is also likely that citizens wishing to curry their favour might also have adopted this custom. The Greeks also diluted their wine (roughly one part wine to four parts water). [[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_alcoholic_drinks#Rome)
  
  ## Other Alcohols
  
  Other alcohols included beer, which became significantly less popular than wine. In particular, wealthy Romans looked down on the drinking of beer. Tacitus (writing much later, in the 1st Century AD) wrote disparagingly of German beer. Barley wine (a type of strong ale, roughly 6-11%) existed, as well as alcohols made from whatever fruits might be growing in the vicinity. For example, when Caesar arrived in Britain in 55BC, he found the locals drinking an apple cider, a custom he and his men adopted with enthusiasm. [[3]](http://drinkfocus.com/beer/history-of-apple-cider/)
  
  I have not be able to find any evidence for the consumption of distilled spirits or liqueurs.
  
  ## Abstention
  
  Abstaining from alcohol was not as easy then as it might be now. Since a large proportion of running water was (and still is) undrinkable, ancient peoples turned to alcohol (in particular wine) as a daily staple, giving them the fluid they needed. The water mixed with wine would be (somewhat) sterilised, allowing it to be drunk, and making the wine go further. One assumes that John must have drunk water only, or at least non-alcoholic juices (grape, etc.). There is reference in the bible to non-alcoholic wines, although this is rare.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_4**: A very very informative answer, thank you for your research! +1  
  > **username_3**: @ChrisCirefice Thanks. I'm very interested in Classics, so this one was right up my street. I just needed to check a few of the things that I thought I knew.  
  > **username_5**: +1 for quoting the original Greek. BTW, while I'm not familiar with Biblical Hebrew, the Akkadian cognate *šikaru* (which could well also be a source of the Greek word, directly or indirectly) is conventionally translated as "beer" (in the general sense of a drink brewed from grain, typically barley), although depending on the context, region and era, it sometimes appears to have been used to refer to other fermented beverages (including wine!) as well.  
  > **username_6**: I am voting this up as it is fascinating reading.  
  > **username_7**: I disagree with the statement "there were no spirits, or liqueurs". As stated in a comment to the answer given by @Steve S., it would really be a stretch to think that people did not know about concentrating alcohol beverages by freeze separation. Anybody whom left a mug of wine outside on a cold night, then removed the ice and drank it, would have been consuming a spirit, no?  
  > **username_3**: @JimmyFix-it I have clarified the statement.  
  > **username_8**: @JimmyFixIt, Since the OP specifically mentioned John the Baptist, we can reasonable assume that he was referring to the Roman province of Judea and except for very extraordinary times, it doesn't get cold enough to use cold distilling.  
  > **username_3**: @DLosc A rather silly mistake; thank you! I'm also no longer sure where I got the information about undiluted wine in the provinces. It looks somewhat suspect, but I'll leave it for now.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2017-03-18. Score: 7
  
  There were two types of drinks back in that time. Beer and Wine. Both hardly resembled what they are today. Beer was very weak, under 4% alcohol, while wine was probably in the normal range of 12-14%. Distilling had not been invented by the Muslims until 700 A.D. (anno Domini). If I apply Occam's Razor here, I would say that it's wine and probably a higher end wine because the more expensive wines were more alcoholic. As I mentioned in my other answer, you want to get your hands on some Retsina or that other Israeli wine being made in an ancient manner.
  
  I'm adding the Wikipedia page on there about this exact passage.. [Alcohol in the Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible)
  
  > "strong drink"; "denotes any inebriating drink with about 7–10 percent alcoholic content, not hard liquor, because there is no evidence of distilled liquor in ancient times.... It was made from either fruit and/or barley beer"; the term can include wine, but generally it is used in combination with it ("wine and strong drink") to encompass all varieties of intoxicants
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_2**: distillation was written about by Greek alchemists in the 1st Century AD. It didn't spread to Europe, though, as a fully-fledged process until the late 700s  
  > **username_1**: And I'm sure someone left some wine outside one night and it froze solid, except for the alcohol and they invented freeze distillation way before this process...  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_9 on 2017-03-18. Score: 6
  
  Surely mead, honey wine, should be considered. Okay, I had to google this one: [Wiki says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead) that residual evidence has been found in northern Chinese pottery vessels dating from 6500–7000 BC, and in Europe in the ceramics of the Bell Beaker Culture (c. 2800–1800 BC). Wiki goes on to tell us that, contemporaneous to John the Baptist, Greeks and Romans were imbibing it.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Mead was never a mainstream drink in the Mediterranean area at that time. Wine and Beer were by far the most drunk beverages...  
  > **username_0**: @SteveS. Does not have to be "mainstream" to be correct in this question.  
  
  ---
  
  