Hacking a Car With Music
timothy posted more than 3 years ago | from the lady-gaga's-secret-plan dept.
! (4, Funny)
mykos (1627575) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460712)
Re:Hackers can turn your home computer into a bomb (2)
tonyreadsnews (1134939) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460910)
When the receiver downloads the attachment, the electrical current and molecular structure of the central processing unit is altered, causing it to blast apart like a large hand grenade
Re:Hackers can turn your home computer into a bomb (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461216)
This is exactly why anti-bomb-virus software is paramount!
Moore's law states that we double the power of process every two years. That means modern processors hold about 12 times the explosive power!
Back to the abacus and slide rule for me.
Re:Hackers can turn your home computer into a bomb (1)
Sulphur (1548251) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461916) (3, Funny)
Mister Transistor (259842) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461990)
Would that be Mushroom Cloud computing?
Re:Hackers can turn your home computer into a bomb (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461552)
I think it's worth disclosing that this is from weekly world news
:p
Re:Hackers can turn your home computer into a bomb (1)
Tx-0 (572768) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462778)
Bad Programmers (-1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460734)
Why are the most ubiquitous products the most buggy?
Why are there so many poor hardware and software designers in control of dangerous products?
Re:Bad Programmers (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460824)
One letter: C.
Dunno why anyone acts surprised about audio codec vulnerabilities.
Re:Bad Programmers (2, Insightful)
cayenne8 (626475) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461040)
Rap
Notice I didn't say music....'cause the terms 'rap' and 'music ' are pretty much exclusive terms....
:)
Re:Bad Programmers (2)
maxwell demon (590494) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463182):Bad Programmers (2)
netsharc (195805) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463966) general 4-way joystick which do other things as well depending on the current task (car settings, navigation, stereo system)
- If a phone is attached via Bluetooth, silence/pause the current track when a call comes in/when the user wants to make a call.
Of course, all dangerous and non-essential extensions to what a car is supposed to do, but all high-end cars have them, because, well, the customer likes features!
If I were designing a car, the audio codec would get its own CPU, so any exploits would just crash/reboot that mechanism. The only critical output would be the "display song title on screen", but does the CPU that control the display also control the whole car (alarm system, etc?).
But then again, cars with navigation systems can talk, and they need another codec to decode the lady's "turn left" ogg file, and if it's "cost-savings!" they're interested in, they'd think, "oh since we already have an audio part here, let's bodge the stereo system into the equation.", and there you go, MP3 decoding being done on the system that controls the central locking.
Re:Bad Programmers (5, Insightful)
NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460958). (1)
Chas (5144) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461446)
* Cheap
* Good
* Fast
Pick ONE.
Re:But Cynics and other realists. (1)
amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464406):Bad Programmers (2)
Imrik (148191) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461014)
Because they receive the most post-release testing to detect bugs.
Why stop at a CD? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460740)
Some stereos are bluetooth, why not try to upload an mp3 to an attached iPod via a strong bluetooth signal from nearby? You'd have to scan for the link signal of course.
Cars are the new assassins? (1)
h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463278)
Uh, what? (5, Interesting)
gman003 (1693318) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460742)
Maybe newer cars, where everything is "integrated", are different. In which case, I'm glad I bought a used '99 Talon rather than a brand-new anything.
Re:Uh, what? (5, Informative)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460776)
Newer cars with integrated stereos hook them up to the car's CAN bus. From there all bets are off.
Re:Uh, what? (0, Offtopic)
pitchpipe (708843) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460920)
Offtopic: I love Republicans/Regressives! [regressives.com]
Re:Uh, what? (2)
gomiam (587421) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463626)
Re:Uh, what? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461342)
And this is bad design, despite how convenient it seems at first. Anything considered critical should be kept isolated. All we need is somebody figuring a vulnerability that allows access to a sending module for cruise-control or power-steering and people may have a ticking time-bomb on their hands.
Anyhow, I still like my old car, even if it comes up a bit short on the gadgetry. And not just because of its lack of gadgetry. Ironically many newer cars I've been in don't seem to have much of the good driver-focused ergonomics that my older car has. Making things "chunky" or "shapes" does not equal good tactile sense or give them reasonable spacing within reach.
Re:Uh, what? (2, Interesting)
MacGyver2210 (1053110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461790) control based on those messages comes from the ECU directly.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462432)
You are very wrong. You should read the posted paper.
Re:Uh, what? (2)
PseudonymousBraveguy (1857734) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463296) safety related systems will meet is probably the dashboard, and that's pretty much a dead end).
Re:Uh, what? Nonsense! (1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462312)
My car - a toyota - has 2 can buses which are isolated. The stereo/satnav sits on one, vital systems sit on the other - never the twain shall meet. Sensationalist reporting as usual...
Re:Uh, what? Nonsense! (1)
PseudonymousBraveguy (1857734) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463330):Uh, what? (3, Informative)
drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460778)? (3, Interesting)
MacGyver2210 (1053110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461800)
I've never seen a keyless entry system connected to a CAN bus.
I have in no way worked on all cars out there, but that would be what we with common sense call 'poor system design'.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463004):Uh, what? (2)
bhtooefr (649901) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463058) them all being connected... let's say you get into a crash.
Airbags deploy. This sends a message to the ECU to shut down, the instrument cluster that there's an airbag issue, the radio to shut down, the central convenience module to turn on the flashers, roll down the windows, and unlock the doors.
If you're not worried about malware, that makes sense, and the thought of malware attacking a radio is generally insane.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
Enleth (947766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463270) reasons very similar to those you cited. They will even try to use the Bluetooth-connected handset (which is handled by the stereo, so that the music volume goes down when you get a call and the caller is heard in the in-car speakers) to call emergency services after a crash.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463502)).
/antilock brakes to make the ECU accelerate / decelerate this would probably make the system raise an error because you fould -interfer with the regular comm to that ECU but you could hav told the real SC/ALB to shut down beforehand /etc (make it respond to *any* key, e.g.) have only the receivers address in them, this cannot be detected.
Possible Attack Vectors:
-jam the bus by message stuffing to disable the car or some systems
-mimic the OBD Interface/Gateway and reconfigure other systems, e.g. how the remote locks work
-mimic the Stability control
-hijack the bluetooth handsfree connection and get data from the handset/call expensive numbers
-even better: scan for a specific Bluetooth Device ID (e.g. the hackers phone) and unlock the doors/ disable security when it comes in range
Re:Uh, what? (1)
drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463684):Uh, what? (1)
Enleth (947766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463974) did not poke too much in the "vital" network even through the gateway and I certainly did not try making anything perform some action, only passive queries and some traffic sniffing, so I can't be sure, though. BTW, a CAN gateway also protects from network failure - even if a device gets a short on the bus lines or goes bonkers and floods out all the communication with some crap, or even gets taken over and distrupts it deliberately, the network on the other side of a gateway will still operate properly. Gateways must be prepared for this by design. In a car, this becomes pretty important during a crash - physical damage might short out communication lines and disable whole networks. Thus, we have another good reason to use network separation, or at least signal-level repeaters immune to shorts and noise.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464880) possible) and a bus will run around picking up those signals and providing power, which potentially reduces both weight and susceptibility to noise.
Re:Uh, what? (4, Informative)
Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460798):Uh, what? (1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460822) the locks on a car in a lot, there will be a lot more folks looking for pre '00 cars.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
jimicus (737525) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462322):Uh, what? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463412)
I wonder if it's possible to burn them on CD your own, and distribute those under windscreen wipers.
I don't think there would be a use to infect random strangers if you have to find their car later.
Re:Uh, what? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461302)
'99 Talon rather than a brand-new anything.
Plus those things are friggin sweet.
Re:Uh, what? (1)
Osgeld (1900440) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464130)
agreed, I had a 94 talon turbo and a 2000 eclipse GS
Re:Uh, what? (1)
jonwil (467024) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461486):Uh, what? (1)
billcopc (196330) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461782) smashing the stack and then executing it.
That's almost as dumb as granting this device bidirectional, unrestricted access to the car's management bus. If they're going to start building computers and networks inside our cars, they need to treat them like any other network: trust nothing, authenticate everything else.
Re:Uh, what? (2)
Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462210) since I was working nearby. Pop in a disk, turn the ignition on with the right combination of buttons held down on the stereo, and it updates the various ECUs.
My own car (1988 CitroÃn CX) has absolutely no electronics at all, except the clock on the dashboard - and that doesn't work anyway.
Re:Uh, what? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463030)
How about those commercials showing GM's OnStar able to be so helpful doing such services as remotely unlocking a car for some poor hapless motorist who locked the keys in the car? (Not recalling any specific commercial since I hardly ever watch TV, but my recollection is to that effect...). Seems that shows some extensive integration of remote control with the rest of the car's systems.
RO
Re:Uh, what? (1)
camg188 (932324) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464332)
and
Pirated music. (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460768)
Re:Pirated music. (0)
Shikaku (1129753) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461264) scratched, which this story is about.
Re:Pirated music. (1)
228e2 (934443) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461642)
more innocuous than a song (1)
countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460774)
until you bump into the RIAA..
Just make sure not to play the stereo loud enough for anybody to hear it.
Predicted... (1)
yoblin (692322) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460832)
Re:Predicted... (1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460950)
Re:Predicted... (1)
ArcticBunny (1968768) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463546)
Attacks (1)
import (40570) | more than 3 years ago | (#35460866) (5, Informative)
StefanSavage (454543) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461004)
>:Attacks (1)
ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462326).)
Sony/BMG sponsoring this research? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460916)
I seem to remember Sony/BMG installing rootkits on computers with their CD's ()... perhaps they're going to go after the wheels of "music pirates" next?
DUH it's DRM (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35460998)
DUH... this is just SONY's newest form of "Digital Rights Management" Installing "what would otherwise be called spyware"-software onto the car so that no copyright infringement could occur... b/c the car fried it's own engine
a good online shopping store (-1, Offtopic)
allent (2014632) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461000)
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Jerseys
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payment
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I love it very much you will be loved it as well
That's it! (2, Insightful)
celle (906675) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461100):That's it! (2, Insightful)
billcopc (196330) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461864):That's it! (2)
ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462276)
Pfft. You're stuck in the 80s.
My Nissan and my wife's Honda dealership both charge ~$24 for an oil change. I actually bought a lifetime (for the ownership of the car) all-you-can-eat oil change plan (with Synthetic) for $400, which includes oil filters, air filters, etc. It cost me $18 to have my wheels rotated, which I guess is a bit more than Walmart.
/shrug.
I just put in an aftermarket stereo system (I drive 25k miles a year, and a good audio system with XM radio has become essential to me). Putting in four good speakers + head unit + XM radio + integration with steering wheel audio controls cost about $900. I quite like the result I got, but I'd have preferred getting the factory installed package. Better integration with XM radio, better reception, and a 9-speaker system. Most dealerships charge about $1000 for this, and it comes factory installed.
But my car only had XM radio installed in a mega-package that included leather heated seats, moonroof, etc., so I just did it myself.
Re:That's it! (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462976)
You actually think it's reasonable that a stereo should cost more than a computer? Snap out of it.
Re:That's it! (2)
ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463718)
>:That's it! (1)
h00manist (800926) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463386):That's it! (1)
SuperMonkeyCube (982998) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464792)
A Bunny (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461112)
A bunny is more innocuous than a song. He clearly didn't think very hard.
Re:A Bunny (1, Funny)
sjames (1099) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461196)
Yeah, Jimmy Carter used to think that.
Sony! (1)
Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461118)
Great, so now Sony doesn't have to stop with rooting your PC, they can also root your car. All in the name of copy protection, natch!
Re:Sony! (1)
SuperMonkeyCube (982998) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464810)
Simple solution (1)
Dee Ann_1 (1731324) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461176) drive tomorrow's technology? Go for it..
I'll stick with old faithful that no one wants to bother with. Best of all, it's long since paid for and I'm not in debt to ANYONE for ANYTHING.
Re:Simple solution (1)
c6gunner (950153) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461366)
So, how hard is it to access Slashdot on your Commodore 64?
Re:Simple solution (1)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461402)
Re:Simple solution (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463100)
So can you still find someone who knows how to gap the points (or even knows what it means)?
Re:Simple solution (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463438)
20 year old cars don't have points, 40 year old cars and older do. I still have a tach/dwell meter....;) and a Commodore 64 and 1541 drive (not my main machine though).
;)
More innocuous than a song? (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461262)
Lord Dolza warned us about songs! Breetai should have listened, but he was a fool!
Music is dangerous! Music and all Micronians must die!
Are car stereos so different now? (1)
unitron (5733) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461374):Are car stereos so different now? (1)
DMUTPeregrine (612791) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461408)
Buffer overflow attacks are just one way to get a system to treat data as executable code.
used to work in Windows (2, Interesting)
dltaylor (7510) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461386)
Microsoft Windows products have been known to scan media streams for executables, either deliberately (for installing gov't keyloggers, for example) or accidentally: [iss.net]
Please Do (3, Funny)
dmomo (256005) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461410)
If it will disable bass boomers in my neighborhood.
Sounds like my AV receiver (3, Interesting)
tlhIngan (30335) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461602):Sounds like my AV receiver (1)
MacGyver2210 (1053110) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461836):Sounds like my AV receiver (1)
RobbieThe1st (1977364) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463514):Sounds like my AV receiver (1)
slackito (985667) | more than 3 years ago | (#35464384)
CD quality audio is 44.1 KHz, not kbps. As each audio sample is 16 bit wide, the total bit rate in a CD audio stream is 1411.2kbps (44.1 * 2 channels * 16).
Re:Sounds like my AV receiver (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463698)
That's a very interesting method of updating. What is the make/model of your AV receiver?
You wouldn't download a car (2)
dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 3 years ago | (#35461866)
Meh (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35461918)
Not really surprised that infotainment software has shoddy quality but even if get total control over such an ECU being able to control anything safety-relevant should be well beyond the scope of that attack vector.
1. Yes cars usually have various basic settings/adaption channels/codings but they are merely for configuration of some detail and not control. Though some manufacturers obviously are more creative in that department than others.
2. There is a login mechanism for such functions
3. Modern safety-relevant features use FlexRay instead of CAN which makes it much harder for one ECU to pretend like it is something else
4. Being able to remotely flash any ECU is rather hard even if have full access to the diagnostic bus as you would need something that resembles a valid flash container. Which is a daunting task just due to the sheer variety of manufacturers/hardware/software/bootloader versions.
Damn, I could have had prior art (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462024)
Once upon a time I came up with the idea of burning CDs called "Extreme Bass Punishment - Can Your Subs Take It?" The content was to be a series of tracks of heavily juiced drums and bass, each one with more low-frequency information than the last. The final track was going to be either a 15 Hz square wave or just a pair of DC rails....couldn't decide. The hope was that it would become an underground fad, spread virally and cause the demise of thousands of car stereos. Nothing like the smell of burnt voice coils in the morning....
You are experiencing a car accident (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462064)
I just want to get from point A to point B. I do not want cellular radios tracking my vechicles every move nor do I want RF spewing keys tied to push button ignitions.
It is not possible to purchase a fricking cell phone worth a damned today unless it comes with at least one camera... Tomorrow am I going to go car shopping only to find I can't just buy a car without all of this useless crap I don't need or want and still have to live with the attack vectors and privacy invasion they introduce?
I went to buy a maglite the other day and was pretty pissed off when I got home and realized if you turn it on and off too quickly it causes it to cycle thru a series of useless modes which dim the light and then strobe and finally flash in an sos pattern...WTF.. I just wanted a goddamn flashlight with an on/off button. So fustrating dealing with useless crap. Transisters, XML and violence sadly have much in common.
Explain (2)
Fizzl (209397) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462250)
... car's stereo system, giving attackers an entry point to change other components on the car...
Explain?
Wtf? This is just silly.
Namshub for cars (1)
egork (449605) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462370) [wikipedia.org]
How long does it take before there is a hotkey combination for Emacs? And until it is applicable to humans?
My lyrics and unexpected concenquences (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462462)
Looks like someone might see all that junk in my trunk...
Bad dsign. (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35462792)
Due to bad design. Some should not work with engineering.
i'd rather... (1)
bball99 (232214) | more than 3 years ago | (#35462836)
hack a bicycle
silly cagers
Hmm... (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35463192)
This could be a problem for Automan.
Dig those sweet dulcet tones! (1)
funkyjunkman (721687) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463352)
Makes you wonder... (1)
_0xd0ad (1974778) | more than 3 years ago | (#35463690)
Why is everyone so easily convinced that Toyota's problems are "user error"?
Well, it makes me wonder that, anyway.
Slightly offtopic, I guess. Oh well.
Sensationalist title (0)
Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35464016)
A better one would have been "Hacking a car through its stereo with a specially crafted audio file". We expect accuracy, not sensationalism from you, Slashdot. Please?