See also: IRC log
<Ashok> scribe: Ashok Malhotra
<Ashok> scribenick: Ashok
Noah: reviews the agenda
... I would like to spend majority of our time on HTML
... skip TAG Priorities
... Let's do admin right after lunch
Jar: Let's ask people what they are gonna do
Noah: Let's use Action Item list
Noah: What should be next topic for discussion
Larry: I thought were close to consensus on sniffing
Noah: Let's do it on a telcon
Larry: I think we could come up with a position on it.
HT: I have action to propose pushback or accept status quo
Noah: Who wants to discuss sniffing now?
<DanC_lap> action-309?
<trackbot> ACTION-309 -- Henry S. Thompson to s. to bring back proposed TAG pushback on sniffing and HTTP bis draft, or his recommendation that we leave it alone -- due 2009-10-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
HT: My inclination is to ask them for a health warning
Larry: I would like to discuss for 10 mts
Poll 3 to 1 ... not now
Noah: What next item to discuss
DC: Data facilities
HT: I would like to report what I found out wrt item 13
HT to give 3 minute report on item 13
HT: I took the binary attribute case
Tim: Boolean
HT: I explored that whereever there was an error there should be error recovery case
... I sent mail and was told "No, what you say goes in the DOM"
<DanC_lap> (ht, did you say "it's all in public-html"? I don't see it in )
HT: Reason is -- this is an extensibility point
<DanC_lap> (false advertising. this is discussion. not clarification)
Larry: Is input disabled or is it not?
<DanC_lap> ah... found it: Where is processing of binary attributes covered? Henry S. Thompson (Wednesday, 23 September)
HT: It IS disabled
... Binary attributes are true if present, false if not present
Larry: So, disabled = false results in TRUE
Tim: 2 overlapping concerns --- how should data be handled in HTML, --- overlap with extensibility of tags
... it's important to put RDF into HTML
... RDFa spec tells you how to do that.
... Hixie said removing namespaces was a goal, and it's hard to use RDFa without namespaces.
Noah: Shall we separate extensibility concerns?
Tim: I'm happy to discuss microdata and Hixie's special data format
<jar> 'rdfh' ... I'd like to hear more about this
Tim writes on board --- RDF in HTML, RDF, microformats, Data-Attributes, ---- no NS in HTML, Extension Tags
Tim: These are various positions people have taken
<noahm> We are using the queue
<noahm> I think
jar: Has anyone articulated that you might do RDF in HTML w/o namespaces?
DC: There is a proposal
<jar> the answer was: Yes, data-... does RDF in HTML, but only an (albeit useful) subset.
Tim: Some say don't bother with namespaces; others say give me the namespaces tool
<DanC_lap> TBL: the blobs [in the whiteboard diagram] are positions; the x's are issues.
Larry: HTML5 now has a data format based on no known experience
DC: No deployment of the data stuff
<DanC_lap> blobs = RDF in HTML, RDFa, Need NS in HTML, microformats, data-*, No NS in HTML, Extending Tags
jar: You could extract triples from data-attributes
DC: That code has been written
Discussion about whether data- or item-property
Noah opens HTML spec
DC: 5.2 Microdata
<DanC_lap> 5.2 Encoding microdata
<DanC_lap> 3.2.3.8 Embedding custom non-visible data
DC: Custom data attributes: 3.2.3.8
Noah: What is difference between data- and the item stuff
... if you do data- you get a Javascript object with that name
DC: What's the motivation?
Noah: Extends that data space for Javascript programmers
HT: It's a way of extending attribute space
... The para after the note is the justification
Noah: How [?] different from item-
... is there a glimmer of a comment here?
JK: There may be another position --- no NS mapping rather than no NS
Noah: There is third position ... just use short names and handle collisions
Tim: The item- maps to a URI
JK: Section 5.1.3 in WHATWG spec
... says "As URLs"
Larry: This section is non-normative
Tim: This is a competing proposal to RDFa
... subject is where it is attached to
Looking a frag in 5.1.2
Tim: Item property can be a URI or a reverse[d] domain name thingie
Noah: Both data- and item overlap with RDFa
... could extract RDFa from this
jar: That is not a usecase
<Zakim> johnk, you wanted to note that I believe "no namespace prefix mapping" is more accurate than "no namespace"
Discussion on whether RDFa can be represented in this form
Tim: Go to 5.1.4 and look at example
... 2 properties of Hedral
JK: Section 5.2.3
... Associating names with Items
HT: In 5.1.1 near the end --- properties don't have to be given as descendents of the element with item attribute
... They can be associated with a specific item using the itemfor attribute which takes the ID of the element with the item attribute
DC: There is a well-known pattern for licenses for images. Is that expressible in this syntax.
<timbl>
HT: Properties that also have values that are URLs. This is achieved by using the a element and the href attribute, ....
Tim: 5.5.2 RDF ...
<ht> Looks to me that <img src="....." item /> <div style="display: hide">: ?
<DanC_lap> [10:18] <Philip> Also
Larry: I'm concerned about us not driving to statements
<DanC_lap> [10:17] <Philip> DanC_lap: ?
<DanC_lap> [10:18] <Philip> Also>
<noahm> JK: First proposal is Balisage proposal from Liam Quin
<masinter> references include pointer to
JK: This where the thread that Micah started ended up ... this has notion of reverse[d] domain syntax
... Micah's email
<johnk> evolve independently from the HTML language
<timbl>>
ashok: ongoing
action-304?
<trackbot> ACTION-304 -- Larry Masinter to draft summary of the larger issue -- due 2009-09-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
action-163 due 31 october
<trackbot> ACTION-163 Coordinate with Ted to build a sample catalog due date now 31 october
discussion of action-295
noah: Back to the spreadsheet
<masinter>_> The 'text/html' Media Type]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-316 - S. to draft for tag@w3.org proposed TAG feedback on the text/html media type registration in the 25 September draft of HTML5 [on Henry S. Thompson - due 2009-10-02].
<masinter>
 ?
<johnk>
Adjourned until next time.