178-10002-10215

2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS

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HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page i

JFK Assassination System
Identification Form

Agency Information

ROCKCOM
178-10002-10215

ASSASSINATION FILES
DEPOSITION OF (A CIA EMPLOYEE)

Document Information

ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION

04/16/1975
8

ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES
CIA

CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS
CUBAN EXILES
FITZGERALD, DESMOND
STURGIS, FRANK

HUNT, E. HOWARD
KENNEDY, ROBERT F.
ORGANIZED CRIME
ROSELLI, JOHNNY
STURBITTS, WILLIAM
GIANCANA, SAM

DEPOSITION
Secret

1A: IB; ic
Redact
02/13/2001

Selected pages from deposition. Full document is number 1781000210091.

Date:

ACT OF 1992
3

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3 Loi CONTENT
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: William C. Sturbitts

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~ ¢ William c. Sturbitts (Resumed)
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50955 Docld:32275518 Page 2

Examination by Counsel

For the Commission

2

i . (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)

538

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~ Wednesday, April 16, 1975
|
i Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for
| examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,
6
| the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary
‘ Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
{
“* | Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50
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i- | o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings»
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5 * APPEARANCES:
+o On behalf of the Commission:
16 GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ.,
aT ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.
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Thereupon,

called as

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Tete apt eing

WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,

a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA

Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary

Public, was examined and testified as follows: |

record?

A

Q
weeks ago
Waiver"?

A

A
Economic

Q

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the

William C. Sturbitts.

Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some

you signed a document entitled, “Advice and

Right.

You understand that document is still in effect?
Sure.

Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?
You mean the Agency or --

That is right.

Central Intelligence Agency. .

And what is your current position with the Agency?
“I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for
Intelligence Collection and Operations.

“And would you briefly review for me the history of

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your employment with the Agency?

When I first came in I was in the Intelligence
Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on specia
detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plan

which is now the Directorate of Operations.

What year were you put on that detail?

I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.

And what did that detail involve?

Cuban operations, economic warfare.

And how long were you on that detail?

I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.
Between 1964 and. i973?

(Nods in affirmative.)

And in 1973 did you assume your current position?

Yes, January.

Now, while you were on special detail ~- to the DOD?

Yes.

Were you stationed in Washington?
Yes. .
And did you commute with some frequency to Miami?

Yes.

Were your activities in Miami in any way connected

with the operations cof the Miami Station?

In some way. ‘My responsibilities were worldwide.

| I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami.
|
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Most of my operations were run out of Europe.

9 Run out of ~-

A Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones
were run out of Europe.

Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect

to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the

operations of the Miami base?

A Yes.

Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?

A Yes, Sir.

8) During the nine years you were with ppo's Cuban
operations, who was -- who were the chiefs of the Miami
Station?

A ff think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know

it. Well, I will come back to that.

Then, the next Chief of Station was Pall Henze.

Q What years was he Chief?

A I think Baul was there about a year and a half. He

left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's

say Hende was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterline.

He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.
Q
you were assigned for the 9-year period?

A Well, when I first came in it was known as the

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And then, I believe after

SECRET .

Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.

that it became the Cuban Operations

Group.

Q Mow, was this a special group within the DDO or was

it attached to one of the area divisions?

A Wo.
called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And
that -- when Harvey left, he went to ‘Shief of Station, Rome,

i

and Fitzgerald took over, it became. Special Activities Staff.
It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the

Deputy Director, Plans.
Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?

A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it

was first created. Heims was DDP at that time.

9 And Task Force W was created immediately after the

Bay of Pigs? -
A well, not immediately. I think sometime around --

in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in
September, something like that, 1961.

Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities

Staff?
A Special Activities Staff and consequently became the

Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went

back into the Western Hemisphere Division.

and what was the date of that reorganization?

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Q

Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing

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3 1 ,
z ~ A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around
: 2 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then
: & : later DDP.
i 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. |
5 ° Harvey held after he left Task Force W? |
6 A Yes. He was:¢hief of Station, Rome. !
” Q And is he still with the Agency? !
oO |
8 A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. !
fe s) Do you know where he lives at the present time? |
ane A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.
Lt He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. |
- 12 Harvey is a lawyer. |
| |
: lz 9 Indianapolis area?
; 14 A Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest, |
1s Indiana. |
|
16 Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force
is WwW? |
la A Tt was‘the overall Cuban operations. |
, 19 2 Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab~ |
: 20° lished? |
: 21 A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down!
: 20 there about 1960 which was small, in. Coral: Gables. |
3 23 Q This was, then, srior to the Bay of Pigs?
i 24 A Oh, yes.
3 25 Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami

SECRET

HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 6

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iz Q Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was
8 3 astablished, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban
9 .
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iC A Yes.
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di Q or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami i
5 | . ,
Fy le Station? |
3 te A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. |
3 is Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special |
i
28 Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Groun? |
16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station |
i? "has no Cuban operations.
. {
ic . Q T understand that. When were Cuban operations termi-
2 19 nated?
3 20 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down

21. there in 1972. it was during fiscal year '72. I think it was

Was tittigtaas,

22 in early 1973. fit was a gradual reduction.

: 2s ‘ ) “and have those operations been terminated entirely

: 24 or are they now run out of the Washington area?

: 26 ' A All Cuban operations are run out of Washington.

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6 A Right. Worldwide.
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° f Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may
Bh have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina-
9 : tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination |

1¢ * attempts that have been mounted --

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; A Right.
-- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your |
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a 13 i activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such}

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3 14° attempts? |
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Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say

18 i A |
:
16 3 attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too |
17! strong a word. |
16: Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of
2 39°: any such discussions? |
; 20., A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions,
: 21 | I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald
E F i
i 22 | in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -~ let me put
: 23 it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on
; 24 | with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as |
: 25 | I recall, he wanted some British ~~ I mean Belgian rifles and

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HW 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 10

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iz i Q Who wanted them?
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2 t A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think
i 4
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5
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reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald
7 . ;
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8 .
tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy.
9° a s
: I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that 7
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we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing
12. - ; ; ;
“~~ ' them. . I think Belin was going to do it himself.
3 le. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself: |
< :
: Tee You said there were 19 volumes of documents with
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3 ~= respect to this.
, | |
aa A 19 files, manila.
16 « : : . ‘
-° 9 All having to do with possible assassination?
aT A All having to do with this whole time period and --~
- . , |
1e can we go off the record for a minute? !
i
2 19 (Discussion off.the record.) |
‘ 20 BY MR. MANFREDI:
a ei Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you
= . i
2 22" nad, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr.
ad ;
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2 £4 A I simpiv overheard it, that is right.
= 25 E is) And who were the parties to the conversation you overt

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HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page il \—-

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3 : heard?
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& i A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez.
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2 4 Q And Mr. Fitzgerald?
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* * A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other |
5 . . |
“ people. We were -- we nad just moved the Station at that time, |.
6 i
© in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace
" : and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations
8 took place -- we walked around the garden and tyat type of
9 f ; ;
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1: was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations.
a= 2 This was in Paris?
2 le: A Yes.
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3 +5. Mr: Sanchez ~- was he a member of the military?
ae A tye, Sanchez was..in the Special Activities Staff. |
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16 |. He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with
F .
iv Cuban military-type.
is : Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive
3 19: instructions with respect to this activity from another
S " :
3 20 i component of the Government?
Cc 4 |
3 el: A Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether
2 Ho: |
z 22! they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty |
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3 £3 positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. |
A if . .
3 24 i and at this time vou have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was
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HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 12 Gerald Ford Library

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: * _ part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided

: a he did a number of things.

2 - :

: ° : is) Were there any other occasions that you can recall

: ° _ in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of |
- . !
° Fidel Castro was discussed?
A No, not really. :
5 :

Q You referred to this as the first occasion.
1

& A ‘This is the first -- |
$ 9 Was there a second? :
is A -- the first time I knew about it or even heard it
ao discussed. |

: Le : Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently |

F

: se underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation

3 is -- were there any other occasions in which this subject came |

|

+e to your attention after this discussion in the garden in |
ze Paris? " |
2° A The only other thing that came to my attention was |
26 that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight

2 13 that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don’t know,

$ :

: 2C- put that is what I was told. |

6 i

: ae Q When did vou learn that? |

E £2 A Oh, I would assume in -- must have been early 1964, |

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3 ee around February, something like that. |

: as ) Off the record.

3 ee (Discussion off the record.) |

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nO MR. MANFREDI:: On the record.

5 .
OE BY MR. MANFREDI:

a Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by

/

. the name of Frank Sturgis?

© A Indeed.

. Q Ig your familiarity based on what you have read in

7 the press?

8 A No. It is what is contained in the files.

g Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,
a | particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,

i+ in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any

12 connection with the Agéncy?

ie A I have.

Le Q What were the results of that searcn?

=o A Absolutely no connection, never has been.

né Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about

17 - an employment relationship?

Lé A That is wnat I am speaking of.

19 Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of

20. the Agency?

2. A No.

22° Q Was he ever a contract employee?

ae) A No.

£4 Q Was he ever a reqular employee of the Agency?

25. Xx No. |

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3 7 .
: ~ Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the
g 2.
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3 il
5 vo A Not to my knowledge. |
* * Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- |
5 . _ . ;
pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against
~ Cuba?
7 _ . , .
A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this
3
° 2 Agency.
9° Q How did vou learn of those operations? ;
ue A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. '
+s Q Now, are these recent FBI reports? !
: aan A Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the
< t |
2 asa oN :
5 -9 thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop :
é - .
3 - over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and :
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-5 by the Bureau office in Miami. |
~5 Q Do vou know who financed his activities?
75 A I have no idea.
2é - Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were
: . |
3 i9 ° indirectly financed by the Agency through -- i |
é of
3 20 s A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of |
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3 22% with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me
5 £3 > to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't
a a ; . . .
2 <4: destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance.”
3 26 ii Q Off the record. |
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(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFPREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

. i
Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mri

Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
Q And what is the volume of that material?
A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee |

called for them the other day after the article in the paper,

I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and!

they returned them Monday afternoon.

Q Do you know who examined those files?

A No, I don't.
I

Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts

the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct?

A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits

of so-called information. :
!

Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged

narcotics traffic?
A Recently it has been.

Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office

in Miami?

A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami |

to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the

FBI. - .
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Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an

established contact?

A No manner.

Q Do they nave any -- do they periodically seek to

collect information from Mr. Sturgis?
A I can't speak to that but the records that we have

don't reflect, anything like that. Before they would contact

gomebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file
| they would have to coordinate with the Latin
American Division pefore they did anything since we do hoid
the file.

QO Would you briefly explain what 4 201 file is?

A A 201 file is a personnel file. it consists of any

information relating to an individual appearing in the press

as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.

Q Personnel or personality file?
A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.
Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection

or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?
A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know

each other. They have to know each other from their days

in Cuba.
2
pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?

As ff recall, we employed Martinez around 1961,

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132275518 Page 17

Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-

SERRE | 16

I~

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|

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' boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations
| and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run,

Phnune (Ares 202) 444-6000

sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in

any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever

6 : do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that belonds
? to the Agency. ;
6 ! Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain |
il
9 a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting
| together his own crew?
Lil A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a |
z 7 Case Officer operating either out.of the -- orobably out of’ !
x i : ; :
: 12 | the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have
5 Me | some people in the Key West base, But he, Martinez, would receive
3 his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. I~
26 Q So it. is likely that he could have brought Sturgis
if along on any of these operations? : |
18 | A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was: |
: 29 | trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer.
= i
: £9 i Q And that would be.for a verlod of time between
i 21 | Shackley and Henze? |
i |
Z 22 | A Yes.
~ ; :
j 2s | Q 1964 to 1966? |
: 24 | A Something like that. . |
3 25 ) Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the
I
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2 } activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
24
& | your -~ and suhsequently the Cuban Operations Group during
= d
3 5 4
> “ || your 9-year tenure with those groups.
A Well, there was -- it was an across~the-board
5
intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign
6 an . . . . tae
positive inteiligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary
73 toe oo . teas . ,
i activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about
8 : cg ne .
, the breadth of the thing.
t
a. ;
“8 2. Mow, these were all conducted through the DDO?
Ws a . .
an A Right.
44 : : . .
++ Q Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary
a: ,
z 12 operations. “ere these operations run out of southern
z i
2 13 3 .
; ~“ - Florida?
é 1a +.
2 ad A Right.
+o 9 And in particular out of the Miami Station?
16 A Yes.
if 9 Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of
1é the country that participated in these activities?
= i9 A Not to my knowledge. |
j 29 Q Were there any southern harbors other than Miami
3 a1 that were used in these activities?
z BR A Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As
z 3° T.said, we did have a Key West base.
i ae
3 £4 | 9 Were there any other bases in that area of the
> i
- £51 country that were utilized in these operations?

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5 1 A Well, not that I would cail a base. We did have |

2 5 |

z “4 training facilities for the UDT teams. |

: 3 i . }

= ar Q What is a UDT team? |
z 1

z 44 ; os

: A Underwater demolition. |

: |

° 2 Where were those bases located? :

6.

vO ey I frankly don't know. They were down along the Kevs, |

7 4

" # along that long peninsula going down there. There were a |

4 : i

4 . - i

8 + number of sites. I really can't recall them.

p : i

9 # Q Were there any other sites within the United States |

for people i

in which paramilitary training was conducted,

ity participating in these activities?
j
~ t !
12 | A Not to my knowledge. |
fi
iH !
13 | Q Where were these people trained?

WAKE & aa

A What’ do you mean?

Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.

|

|

i

We trained them at these places: we had in the Keys. |
fat

ae) F 2
i
i!
16 A
Lz -- some of them were brought up here and traine

i?" Now, there also

at.cthe Domestic Training Station.

: 19 9 Where is that located?

: 20 | A That is down in Virginie.

ae iH _ |
i 21 | 2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these

: .
: 22} raids?

~ i
: 235 A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to

: 24 ! understand at this time that we hac a great many contract

: £5 | employees, independent contractors and this type of thing.

i; :
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3 z - |
+ Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was i
3
~ oO .
wy a : 7 : 4 . .
& 1 conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another
3 , 4 ;
gz 3: . !
z ° | entity of the --
7 - Q DDO?
;
A DDO.
Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,
7 a ae . :
. training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special :
8 _ Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Speciai
. 5 E is ¥ p
g i a ;
Operations. Group, is that correct?
ic ens ; ; - = ai
ty A Weil, supervised, ves, and I would think that probably
t some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic
. i
!
12 Lo . . : . oe 3 } - 3
= te Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but I
Z ; i
‘ le would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would
3 is probably staff the training facility with their people who have
28 the expertise in paramilitary operations.
i
. . ae i
26 a) Now, were the people that were being trained at
|
- these facilities basically Cuban refugees?
Ls A Yes.
= i9 Q And at the outset I take it not many of those people
3 7 . !
4 |
& :
& 20 were American citizens?
2 el A No.
i |
3 22 2 Or had become American citizens. |
: : I
3
= 235 A I would assume a creat many have.
| |
7 '
3 24 2 By this time. |
= |
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+ 25. A By this time, yes. Photocopy |
: i
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° a ;
: ~ 4 oa) At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi
g 20 -
a ; in Miami? Do you have any idea?
2 u
z aan oo i top ag
: i A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it 1s
z 4° ; ;
probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards a
3 tae
military people.
& tae . «
Q You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert
? !. action. How do you distinguish between those two categories
8. Soa gts
i Of activities?
9 ; A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The
is Hl ag : . .
““ "paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days
ee . ae . : : :
++" we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was
z Le ; media placement. We had a number of operations at -- legal-
= ae
a . ' . .
3 1s ' type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel
3 14 ' seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he had a
25 : Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in
16 : the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings
i? | that. were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned
18% in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them

because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was

20003

-- they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was

Oe.

: a1 forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada.

: Re We ran legal operations, got the owners and: had them
: £5 hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing.
; 24 i He seized these race horses. He tried toe peddle them
: in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against that

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¢ ~ thi
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a 2 —_ : {
a F Q These were what you considered to be covert operations?
i 3 | | | |
: i A Yes, covert action. |
3 . H
Z 4 ee ee , |
9 Now, this is what vou were referring to, legal- {
“ type operations?
~ A Yes.
2 ;
; 9 - You used legal process to harass Castro. |
8 | 5
A Yes. , i
9 ; 9 What other types of harassment activities did you
+4" run that would fall under this covert action category?
Tb ;
ta A Well --
: ie 4 Q Would economic warfare be --
3 |
« H
5 1% . . . :
s ont A That was sort of something separate unto itself. :
x g iS 4 :
3 a6 This was ~~ the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a I.
2°. g@ecision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockade.
‘ |
+68 % 9 what special group is that?
AT A Tt is now called the Forty Committee.
ic) 9 Is that 302 Committee? |
a 12 A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all, i
3 |
5 :
3 z0 : it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then
3 21 it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between
z i _ |
3 221 there and now it is the Forty Committee.
A = - . , a . . :
2 23" 2 All right. We will return to that a little bit
5 i .
Fs £4. later, but what other types of harassment were you running i
5 25 i ; -
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* A This is what I was trying to think of.
| Q -~ that would be considered covert action? |
Sy . |
| A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement, |
* media placement. It has been so ‘long ago I really don't
5 remember. I know we had a number of things going against him. |
° We used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some
, extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,
e | particularly when they were countries that we had treaties
° with, NATO countries, Canada, this type or thing.
29 Let's taik about each of those in turn. You said
41 | you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you :
12 | referring to? |
lo A. Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we
i were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal
15 | activities, the legal -- well, I don't know how you would :
i! |
161 phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control
17 | regulations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the
18 | Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of|
19 | Commerce, the Export Control people. |
20 | I. guess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally
el U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of
i . |
a2 | thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying}
29 | .to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where |
} !
a4 I we would find this out through all-source intelligence, we |

or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the

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' SECRETE 23

°
3 1 | -
3 executives of these American companies and ask them to tell
s a ; oo. ;
their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts
i 3 -
2 and the other things that Castro might need. We had the
é 4
Department of Commerce -~ we identified 600 of the major U.S. |
5 . . eo, !
companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban incustry.
6 .
We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600
7 . . ; De
: manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying |
8 , oo. |
any spare parts to: the Cubans. This was a fairly concentratea
. i
9 - , :
effort to really isolate them.
it. oo 3 . i
9 All right. And that is what you were referring to
Li a !
as moral suasion?
12 |
3 ~ A Yes. !
4
oN 12 4
: a Q Anything else in that category? :
< 1A :
5 7s A Not really. None that I can think of. |
-9 9 Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign |
. 1
1
i6 _ |
companies?
19 ‘ n =~: . y
+! A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,
. |
Té fo , os : -
=e the point in case being the Leyland buses. We pulled all stops
3 i9 to*stop that sale. The British Government turned us down |
7
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“ 2
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> i
5 el 2 Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of
3 5 i
z ee supply? |
oy i
“ — . |
3 eo A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive vourchasing

24 orogram. If there was a single source of supply for a
5: ae : . . : ,
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3 | the market.
g 2
4 i Q Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic 17
g 5
g 7 A Yes. |
Q -- domestic market? |
|
A No. It would be re-sold abroad.
é ,
2 In all cases? ;
? . . ;
A The cases that I was associated with, it was all
S| a i
; sold abroad.
- I
: Q What kind of purchases were made? :
12 :
; 4a Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased |
12 a
some Bright Stock in Antwerp. i
12 I,
5 2 What? }
é
‘ 12 - :
3 A Bright Stock.
3 _
° 2 What is that? :
“ A Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of
lé | . oo |
her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical |
|
V7: '
~ commodity. Bright Stock can be =~ oh, it is almost like tar,
|
<3 |
ws _ melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this
i
- 19 ; - a ; |
3 - type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So
* ec : : : . : . H
2 ~ > Ye had an oil firm surchase this Bright Stock from a dealer for
3 oe _ which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually
z 5
* ee . solid in Africa.
4 _ ;
3 we 3 “Do you know of any sales of such materials that
2 ae were made within the United States? Resales, I should say.
3 25
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z 4 Q In addition to preemptive buying were there any
a a
a 2: _
a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of
3 '
< 5
2 i supply to Cuba? i
= A Well, we did provide through third country agents
who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce .
. Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had :
ra
!  yeplacement parts manufactured that were substandard. j
8; a es 7
9 And vou had them sold through foreign companies?
i
A Well, we had our agents: get the Cuban orders all
Lot ; 3 = Fi fact
. over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of fact,
i2 ;
““ "the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des.
12a: :
3 ~* "and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this.
a 24
; we ) Mr. Dillon?
° ws A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. h
:
-F Q But --
tn
BR: , . i
ar A But vou must remember that these American ~- :
ar :
~! 8) Mr. Connors? {
“ A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,
2 9 well, their places were nationalized and they were only too |
2 - :
z |
: Prem : ‘ f
¥ “VY \ happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona
z 4
3 et 3 fide business. These things were transshipped through two :
2 4 . i
3 a9 4b . . an
= 221 or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. !
7 iH :
4 33 |
3 fo 4 2 You referred to some extra-legal activities. :
sal | :
2 ee A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what
<
2 an I
* 6 | we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of
|
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HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 27

wa a es PRE 26

: - our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was

z g |

3 on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the |

: ° extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know

° . it was one of the parts of the program.
° i) This was illegai activities? ts that what you are
: referring to?

; A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they

. weren't exactly legal, I don't think. perhaps they were in a

° gray area some place.

aan 8 Well, whose laws are we talking about, international
+ law, the laws of the United States?

a tS AD I would have te go back and review the thing. I

: * really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.

; == Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files?
- A rt would think probably down in the Records Center some
1é . | . |

° place. . :
+8 . Q Would it be sossible to obtain that material some
is time during the lunch hour? ;

3 a A No. re is forty miles away. |

: ec. Q Well, is there some place in the building where |

: ee you could refresh. your. memory?

i

3 22° A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped.

4 . .

; Re This is talking 1l years ago, 12 years ago. All that material

: a has been retired. |

; eo Q What category of activity would we be talking about |

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HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 26 v

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2
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a when we refer to extra-legal activities?
g 2
e A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't
é z _
2 think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one
3
& 4 . ,
parts of the program that we were involved in. |
_ ; : '
I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might!
7 tell me what that is. ;
7
Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to |
come back to that. i
. i
° A All right.
~~ Q Whe else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal |
~~ activities that were run against Castro?
3 +< A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable are |
2 _
3 “ probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran
3 a the economic program.
7" Q Well, these are activities that were run in conneetion
“© with the economic program? |
_ \ |
- A Yes. |
ae Q We talked about media placement during this nine-
2 ~* year period... To what are. you referring when you refer to
& 26 |
y ¥ media s.lacement? ; .
2 ee A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our
z {
5 . i
= 29 . . : i
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4 7 |
z Re and magazines throughout the world. |
5 | |
3 ee Q Would this aiso include broadcasts over radio
z '
7 O56 _ |
ae stations? |
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A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.
Q Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines

published within the United States?

A Not to my knowledge, no.

Q These were essentially foreign publications?

A Yes.

Q Were any of them published in the Cuban community -

in Miami?

A No. The intent was to get world opinion against |
Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.

Q What about the. radio broadcasts? How were those
handled?

A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?

re) Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations

were involved. Was there more than one radio station?

A No. We only nad the one radio station but we did

L

contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.

9 For broadcasts to what areas?
A For broadcasts to Havana.
9 And the station in New York, was that received also

-- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United

States?

A I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a

particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it

short-wave or what they did.
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SECREI 39

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3 z .
¢ Q But the intention was to reach Cuba.
= 2
& if A Reach Cuba.
3 a
> “ 4 Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to
z 4
as Swan. Were there others?
5
A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
6 ae Lo. : . .
Miami. I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,
aa . ee
: I think, and one down in Kev West that they used.
8 . Q Where was Radio Swan located?
9 ; A On Swan Island.
re Co ee
aN, Q Where is Swan Island?
11 : . . as . .
~ A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.
50. .
2 ar Q As far as you can recall, were there any other
2 : "
a
: 12 : i : . . tae
* — radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
2 14 proadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
aos A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
6"  f recall right now.
AT Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups
ié affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American
3 i9 public to support those propaganda activities?
S 20 A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of
3 2£l. thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.
z 22°! re) Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were
. :
a gn . . : * . . .
i £5 run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?
2 24 A Oh, yes.
+ 25 9 Was anything of that nature done in connection with

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HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 31

SEGRE I 30 |

: i Cuban propaganda?

z e | A Not to my knowledge.

: & | Q And that would include both the publications and the

: 4° radio? |
5 : | A Right. | |
s : Q Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of :
? : moments . Could you describe for me briefly the type of :
§ economic activities that were conducted against Castro? |

! A Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the

regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We

i
t
i
114 worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in |
t

- 12 |. the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, f
: 13 | guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped from
i a about @ penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like
:
16 | that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -~ Fidel kept 7
16! saying that he had such a soor crop and this type of thing and
fo.
itd we just couldn't figure our why he had such a poor crop becausel,
1a : some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihs
. 19 : this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,
20 this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was
: on | lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any
E 22 | place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he
. |
a 23 | could. oe |
2 4 -
: 24 | So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in |
3 as | New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a
H| - . i
|
| |

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real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.

It was this type of thing that obviously he was

trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any
money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't]
i

want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of

activities.

Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. i

companies enlisted in that effort?
. !

A Oh, yes. :
2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and ‘
businessmen?
; ; ; |
A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great |

many ~~ the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the
American community, sy American bankers, and obviously they

lost everything wnen they had to pull out. Sugar is the

lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this!

i

type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it!

was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.

QO What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain from

these businessmen?

A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you

know, the market conditions. were, why the price was rising, if

we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would

happen to the market crice. This type of thing.

Q They were used as consultants,basically.

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They were used as consultants, basicall yes.
Yr ¥

We have spoken about the investment American business

had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American

organized crime --
< ;
A NO.
_ 2 -- had considerable investment in Cuba?
? : . .
A No., Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in
& . . . 5 . .
Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.
‘3
2 The casinos were run --
“ A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force
_ during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this
Te , ¢
. tL . - .
3 « type or thing.
.-¢
lz . :
. “ 9 I understana that. It was fairly well known.
5 le en
7" A It was a criminal element.
=< 9 The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana.
1é A Right.
qn _ _
=! Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist
+ the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner
3 iy whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime?
¢ £0 a No.
2 al Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?
3 22 A Oh, yes.
3 . .
3 ae Q When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?
5 ;
3 24 A Well, I guess it was -- it seems to me it was either
* 2s Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number

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t+

2 !
3 u .
g } Of years. ago.
a 4
@ 23 . ,
é | Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's
q > i
> “ 4 name?
: ;
a 404
P A Yes, as I recall. |
P . |
~ Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana?
a 4 ; :
: A No. I have heard that name but I don't know where.. A
ry ik :
‘ Q In‘connection with -- |
8 i A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
il }
9: Q In connection with the casinos or --
4 :
A No.
a Q -- gambling interests in Cuba? : H
aa if
: iz | A No. |
a 5
; Lz . ; _ . .
; ze} Q You know of. no instance in wirich organized crime
‘ !
3 t5 figures were used as consultants by the Agency? |
LSE A Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge |
26" of that whatsoever. |
7" 2Q Do vou know of any offers of assistance from figures |
a _ |
ic of chat type -- |
‘ 1
“ 19. A Wo.
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é 2c 3 Q -~- who were interested in getting back into cuba?
S ‘ i
z 22 A No.
3 ' .
3 22 5 9 We were talking about economic warfare. We have
w a | ,
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5 :
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> 25 | cuba?
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A Well, we used all-source information to find out what

2 . . .
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2 : the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control

1s people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |
, So they Looked

aan le-Nickel exports coming into the United States?
Ae * into the thing and indeed they did.

Who owned the mine?

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country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter

of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in
New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it
around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel -

found other sources and export privileges to the United States

were restored.

You know, it is -~ you just -- any time you raise
or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that |
simple. . |

Q Were there any other instances that you can recall
of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of

American business firms?

A I know we were in touch with a great many American
business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could.
MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Q When we broke for a moment we were discussing other '
instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of America
business .in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of
any other such instances?

A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having an awful time
with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats, were
powered with; Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg

people and told them -~ asked them to cooperate with us,which

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they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's
representatives around the world if they got any orders from
the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.

. We did the same thing with --

Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg |

compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?
A No.

Q Were they compensated for the loss of business

involved in that activity?
A No. No.

Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from

other companies.

A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.

Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in

that manner?

A No. Not a one.
~ 9 Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any|

companies?
A No. No.
QO Were there any sanctions. that could have been brought

to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with

Cuba?

A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.
Cuba. They couldn't get export Licenses from this country

anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the

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SECRET 7

Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause

in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --
foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with

the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated countay

And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried

to twist their arm.

Q Other than insuring that these companies refused

to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were

you receive from American ‘business?

A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would

legally constrained from doing, what other types of support aad
{
{

receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they
received it from Cuba asking for.publications and this type
of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing
to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in
some instances they might call me and I would just give them
a Post Office box to send. the correspondence to.

Q Any other types of support solicited or received by
the Agency from American business?

A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one

firm we approached, and God knows we approached [I don't know
how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of
fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,
that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the

government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but

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There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.

Did you identify yourself as CIA --

Yes.
~- in dealings with these companies?

Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even

the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all.
Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started

but didn't really discuss that in any depth.

What kind of paramilitary operations were run

against Cuba by the CIA?

Maritime operations.

Is that the extent of it?

That is the extent of it.

Were there any aerial operations?
Not to my knowledge.

Leaflet drops?

No.

Bombing?

No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far

I am concerned that is the only aerial activity.

That was run by another directorate, wasn't it?

Yes.
Aerial photography, and so forth.

Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has

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outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera-

as


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be requested and that is about it.

Q And those were run out of the United States?

A Oh, yes.

Q Can you think of anything, any other type of para-

military activity other than maritime operations.

A No. I really can't, no.

Q Am I correct ‘that those operations were manned

by CIA contract employees?

A Right.

o WhiGh would include Cuban refugees.

A | Right. °

Q. ‘And some:CIA officers?

A Right.

Q Any other branches of the services, Armed Services,

involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs.

A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to rememba

that: probably down at our Domestic Training Station we

probably have people on-detail from other -- from the military

branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think
that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also
had people detailed into the Agency.

Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime
operations, I take it, was conducted in part within.the

United States and in part outside of the United States. Is

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- yaids. That is about the extent of it,

SECRET 7

A I would think probably the major portion of it was

conducted within the United States.

Q the Keys would be considered within the United

States.

A Oh, yes.
Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted
outside the United States?

A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not

to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall

but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done
domestically.
Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within
t
|

this category of maritime operations?
A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating

agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage

~ Q Now, when did. these.operations commence? Was it

shortly after the Bay of. Pigs?.
A I would -- I think these operations were probably
at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,

1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December

1968, something like that.

Q Why was the program terminated? ; _
A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provid-
ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,

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SECRET a

|
g |
: * | it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
: | getting wrapped up. We were -~ we just felt that the return
: ° | wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.
* * Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up.
. A Yes.
6 | Q ° What do you mean by that?
° | A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify
8 | him and capture him.
9 Q These various types of paramilitary operations that
40 were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the
it Forty Committee? _
3 12 A Every operation received a specific approval from
: 13 | the Forty Committee.
& ;
: i4 Q In advance?
is}
A In advance.
16 | Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for
iv | tsa age . |
initiating such an operation?
1s OA Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.
3 19 .or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache.
S
: 20 - Q You are referring to a cache of arms.
E el | . A A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,
: 2 | whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have
: 25 | one of these operations and the request would go from here
; 24 | over to the,’ I guess to the White House and then the Forty
> 25 Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very
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SECKE! 42
2 1
3 frequently -- they would either approve the operation or say
: 2 | no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because
g ~
: ° | the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper
2 ; i
" * | phase for communications and this type of thing. And these
° | things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of |
6 Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were
? | exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
g Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military |
9 | agency that had anyinvolvement whatsoever, and the entire |
10 thing was coordinated.
il Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations
3 12 that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?
: Ls A No.
&
3 14 Q What ‘kind of volume of operations are we talking
29 | about?
16 | A You are not talking about a very big volume of
i? | operations because of the planning that had to go into these
18 things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing
3 19 they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.
3
: 20 Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having
: 21 run 300 operations.
: RE | A I have seen that.
: 23 Q Is that inaccurate?
z 24 A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He
; RS may have considered some of the training exercises as opera~
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, a
: + | tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one
fl 2 | of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother
é 5 | ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go into
é 4 | see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore

8 | before you go. So he may have considered that all these train-

6 | ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-

? | pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.

8 - Q Now, from what specific locations were these

9 operations launched?

10 A They were mostly launched from thesKeys.

i | ‘Q Any other locations?
: ie A Not to my knowledge.
<
: 1s | Q Now, would you describe. for me the kind of hit and
: 14 : run sabotage operations that were conducted?

is | A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against

16 the Texaco refinery.

i? | _Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?

is | A What used to be the Texaco refinery.
a 19 | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
; 20 (Discussion off the record.)
E 21 | THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
2 i
3 22 went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.
i. i
: £5 | We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this
= i .
3 24 | type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It
: 25 | was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was

j

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|
2 | a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as
3 & | much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out
é 5 | because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type
i 4& | of operation that we did.
5 | As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn
6 | some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we
Hi
7 | did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and
8 | exfiltrations.
9 | Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?
10 A Not to my knowledge.
LL Q Was it impractical to use the base there for -~
le A. Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that

13 I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him

WARD & PAUL

14 1 back. He wouldn't walk.

|
15 MR. MANFREDI : Off the record.
16 | (Discussion off the record.)
{ .
17 | 7 MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
Le BY MR. MANFREDI:
2 19 | Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out
; £0 | ofthe Keys other than what you have just described?
i 21 | A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage
2 22 | kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained
: 23 | sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down
; 24 | crank cases. Things of this nature.
: 28 | One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage
i
|

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g
: ? : all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our |
: 2 own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We
s ° contracted with an American firm for that. And. we shipped
é & it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.
° ; The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the
6: automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking
? down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have
8 everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive
ii
9 equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because i
1 i
10 : Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going td
| | ,
il i extend the credit. |
2 12 | The railroad system was in total disaster. The . |
< i
; 1s Soviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus |
& :
5 14 ; the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment
15 because they were used to good American equipment. And these -
16 were principal targets that we were trying to get to. =
17 : _ Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of
is : any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run |
2 19 trom a base in the United States?
‘ 20. A No.
a |
3 al , Q I know there has been some paramilitary training
: ae in the United States. |
a i ; i
: 23 | A Oh, yes. |
: 24 | Q In connection with other operations.
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Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that

were actually run out of the United States?

A No.

Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique
- situation.

A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.

me Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in

Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as

the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.

A That is right.
Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
A Well, we had. -- honestly, everything from a canoe

up. to three .to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers,
rubber boats. We-had a number of craft in, say, the 27 to

45 foot. length. And they looked like real tubs. They were
painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but
they. had. the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any~-
thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under~
water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy.

Q . Did these craft operate under non-official cover.

in the Miami area?

A Yes.

Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one
firm?

A No. Variety.

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if he got some time off.
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3 i
i * i “Q Fishing companies?
a A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine
: ° | supply. In all, I think during the period that the station
g if
. * i and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non-
° official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.
6 : Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any
; legitimate commercial activities?
& A Not to my knowledge, no.
9 . Q None of them -- were any of them in competition with
oa firms in that area?
| A These are probably what we would call devised
3 12 | facilities. They were probably registered with the State of
; 15 | Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one
z 1
3 14 | was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of
aa existence and started up a new one.
16 | Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running
fi
i” i these operations?
12 | A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as
3 19 | I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
i}
: 20 | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
3 el | under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.
: a2 | Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He
ul
3 £5 : came back -~ he might come back once a month,.or something
= |
E £4 | jike that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks
= 25
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it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or

SECRET

Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were
actually stationed full-time in the Keys.

A Oh, yes. Oh, sure.

Q Were there any operations run out of the United
States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
sugar or anything of that sort?

A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the}

Puerto Rican thing?

A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind.
Would you describe that for me?
A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of

opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar
i

to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to

something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.
In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
drydock or wherever it was, they. had te remove the sugar and

put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came

up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -- there was

aA rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to

put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the
individual, and some of this was done. . And then when it
leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar

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: | Q Bought it back from the Soviets?

6 .

: 2 | A Yes.

g ° MR. MANFREDI: oft the record.

3

é + (Discussion off the record.)

\

6 ; MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record. .
e | BY MR. MANFREDI: | |
? Q Are there any other operations in which crops were
8 | -- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?
9 | A No. No. |
10 | Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? |
a4 | A In Cuban products?

: ik | Q Yes.

< ‘

: | A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in

5 i4 | those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.)
25 | The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total | :
16 | chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn’t have |
7 anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.
ey There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around

3 *y with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of

8

; 20 experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.

3 21 I forget -- several other European and American companies that

: 22 || had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—

wl |

: 23 |) ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.

3 24 | Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to

3 25 Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and ~-- so he just put it

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+ on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too

| high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in

Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin

and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type

of thing. So he was helping us all along the line and

this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this

"type of. thing.

i : But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we

/ @idn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade

> and cut off his sources of supply.

: Q When was the Miami Station established?

} A As a station?

u

7

7 Q Yes. |
A I think in September 1961.
9 And that was several years before you became involved)

in Cuban matters?

A Yes.
Q Do you know of any other facilities of that nature
within the United States, Agency facilities?
A You mean, targeted against the opposition?
ie} Yes.
i
A A station as such?
Q Yes.
| A No. You have some communications facilities that

you really call stations because here again, they are not

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directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of

overseas communications.

Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and

Office of Security officers, and so forth.

A Right.

Q But I am talking about actual stations. :
A Operating stations, no.

Q This is the only such station in the United States

o

as far as you know, is that correct?

A Right.

Q And was this station established to deal primarily

with Cuban activities?

A Yes.

. Q Cuban-related matters? |
A With Cuba, period.
Q Did it have, when it was established, any other

responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?
A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other

countries in the Hemisphere.
Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
activities, what was the size or the number of personnel

attached to that Station?

A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a

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3 couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
: 2 Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees,
: ° independent contractors, probably another. 200 minimum. It was
. * , Obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its
° | height it had over 500 people in it.
6 (6) Full-time Agency people? ; i
? A No, no.
e Q Combination of contract and -- |
9 ‘ A And full-time, yes. A regular employee we call a staff
H
10 | employee. |
ii Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract |
3 12 | people? |
: 15 | A Yes. |
5 14 | Q Even though he was located down in the Keys?
{
298 A Oh, yes.
16 Q And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
17 | Miami? Physical facilities.
;
18 | A Well, they were located on the south campus of the
3 19 University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at
: 20 the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained
3 a1 unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn
: a2 well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the
Fi
i 25 Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.
: 24 | Q official cover?
3 25 | A No. Non~official. ‘ photocopy from
| d Ford Library

| . Geral
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WARD & PAUL

410 First Street, S.E., Wasnington, 0.C. 20003

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. for. yours ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts.

Q Non-official cover. What was the cover?
A It was a commercial cover. It was called -- the first
one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a

President and Vice President, normal corporate setup.

Q Engaging in any business?
A No.
Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,

i
iy
how long could a non-official cover last?
A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research
activities. Funded -~ it-is a giant mechanism when you put

one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,

Q ‘Yes, I understand. |
j

A So it was a research activity and’ the only people that
ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You
know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept
any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And.out of.
this. onéy thing, of course, then we were running these innumera-
ble.-6ther~covers with different activities. The guard

force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, similar

to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think

that there was -~ in the later days at that site I think the _
Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other

Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.

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410 First Street, $.E., Washington, O.C. 26003

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Q And this particular Station, then, was under the
supervision of the group we have been discussing?

A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.

Q When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume
responsibilities for the Miami Station?

A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the

Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western

Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division.

9 Is there presently a Miami Station?

A Oh, yes.

Q And how large is it at the present time?

A Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the

Cuban Operations, I don’t know how large it is at the present

time because we are in one of these periods: where: we -are
reassigning people, -but I think by the end of this fiscal year
there’are going to be between 11 and 14 people.

Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions
were being performed by’ the Miami Station?

A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I
think I have lined them out at:one time ---collection of
positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this
type of thing. Covert action.

Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in

the deposition?

Photocopy from

A Yes.
. Gerald Ford Library

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: | Q Which of these activities, if any of them were
“ | actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?

: 5 A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably
z 4 counterintelligence. — oe
° Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence

6 | activities in the Miami area?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 | Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter-
9 intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting
10 | in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? |
li | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I
3 12 recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent that
: 1s | came in by small boat and when she was -~ she came in with a |
&
3 14 | number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep- |
16 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.
16 The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there. and.
17 | we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration
18 | and, Naturalization Service cover. When the LEW people did the
3 19 | preliminary interrogation of these people they had to. fill
: 20 | out forms, where .were you born, this type of thing, biagraphic+
: a1 | type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our~peopte who would
: ae look at the forms and based on previous experience or what
iw
: 25 they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they
i a4 might have some information of intelligence value, they would
= 25 reinterrogate them. /

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‘tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from. --'

a fhe Sos EES

It was in this manner that this gal came to our

knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined

that obviously she was receiving messages and she was [
sending messages. So along with the Bureau we put a surveillan
on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and |
indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock |
or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found |
it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that

was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved

in.

Q Were there many activities of that type?

A Not really. You have got to remember that the |
Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large !
squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-
thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of

hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-

in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting
to Case Officers and they would report on things in the
community, of people they thought were suspect and this type

of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved

in CI activity.

Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI

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activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-
whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability

to properly staff the thing?

A Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot
of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section '

of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is

known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy |

the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers

from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a

relationship there that had gone over a period of years

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|
between the Agency and the Bureau. |
MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock. i

|
|
|
|

(Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of-

the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this

same day.)

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Thereupon,
WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA

i Activities, and having been first dulv sworn bv the Notary

' Public, was examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the

| largest CIA station in the world?

| A. The largest CIA station in the.world.

}

| 0. At its heiqht?

A Nothing comes anvplace close to it.

i 0. I wonder if vou could describe briefly for the record

A. Well, the AiOTs were Cuban a Cuban intelligence
organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro
ever be overthrown, these people would be the nucleus to go into
i Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior.

‘0. “Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
for Security Agency?

A. Well, in most countries of the world the Ministrv of

Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.

Phot | from
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32275518 Page 60

0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the |

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58 |
I AFTERNOON SESSION :


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8 L 0. And these people were Cuban exiles?
: |
a 2! A Cuhan exiles.
R
i 5 | 0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS?
8 4 | A, Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures
5 | but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to ~- |
6 | 0 Go ahead.
% . A. Probably closer to 159, something like that.
8 | Q, Now, would that i509 persons be included within the |
9 | three to 599 who made up the Miami Station? |
10 A No. |
il Q, That was over and above the personnel of the Miami
; 12 Station?
i 13 A, Right. :
a
ta 0. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?
5 | A. Right. WE11, let me -= these people really were -= |
16 _ they were being subsidized by the Agencv. They: were employed
vy | Byestio=cover:‘conpanies, the largest of which was called. Latin
jg | AMerican“Social and Economic Research. Then we had another
. va | sates qroup that did the interrogating and they were under
: 20, ‘another’cover, commercial «cover, -- I just don't recall what it
6 ;
: 21 | was. But these peop.e ostensibly were employees of these wholliv
: 22 | owned proprietaries of the Aqencv. Thev were dulv constituted,
‘ a3 | incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing. |
: 24 0. The salaries of these neonle, although paid indirectiy}
: | were vaid bv the CIA?
2 ops |
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| |

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HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 61

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3 1 : A. That is right.
: |
5 2 i 0. And was training provided.them by the Agency?
st [
i 5 i) Oh, ves.
E 4 A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made
5 up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?
6 A. Right. :
9 0. When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring tq
8 ! debriefings? | |
9 : A I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles |
10 or perhaps exiles that had heen in the country whom during thein
il time here had acquired new information. |
| 12 0. How were those -- how and where were those debriefingg
13 | conducted?
i 14 : A, Well, normaliv the debriefings were conducted at Opa
15 Loca.
16 0 That is the Air Base?
19 A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the
. 18 ; reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in. |
3 19
& Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had
Q
2 a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.
: small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them
| down, under controlled conditions,and debrief them without anv
: interference and this type of thing.
: 0. For how lonq a period did these debriefings go on?
+

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3 1 : A. You mean in terms of vears?
3 = A. Well, I would think that I would probably say from
E 4 | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --
5 we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out |
6 and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -= cut off
9 ‘ about, I quess about 1970 or '71, in that timeframe -~
8 | 0. I see, |
9 A -- that stopped the flow of the refugees, so we just |
1c terminated that part of the activity. |
li 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came |
; 12 in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any other
i / intelligence gathering functions -- |
Pu, Ho |
ae : 0, In the community? ~
vA : A Well, I can't give vou a real ves or no-to that. I
io would suppose that: there is-an outside possibility they could
ie have been used to debrief people within the community, within
a the Cuban community, but we had in the organization -- all these
people were Cuban’ with the exception of we had what we call an

On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime: staff-emplovee and he
had a couple of assistants, including a secretarv. These people

were directly under his control: Though the organization as it

was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,

to
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but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Officer.

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Of course, if these people went out and did something on

; their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.
: You can't == you know what they are doing during their eight or
i ten hours that thev are going to work evervday but once they

i Leave, we don't know what they are up to.

0. Did they have CIA credentials?

|
i
i
| |
A. No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this |
commercial cover. |

0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these |
people other than in their duties -- in their debriefing |
capacitv, I should sav?

A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a
standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence

interest or a battle, you know, anvthing -= economic questions,

morale, and this type of thing. When these questions ~~ when.

| report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over to the Station.

cea the debriefing report contained something of positive
intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
| Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot

down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be

recontacted and asked specific. questions.’
Q Now, in addition to'debriefing, what else did this

smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area?

these people were cebriefed and the. debriefer wrote up the
A. This was their prime purpose. |

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32275516 Page 64

7° SEGKEE 63

g 1 0 How large was that particular group?
; 2 i A. Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,}
é Sj I think there were about five debriefers with the support people
3 4 which would he secretaries, translators, strictly administrative
5 | types. I don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15
6 ‘ in that aroup, if there were that many.
5 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
8 (Off the record discussion) |
9 | BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
16 0. Before we move on to further. discussion of the AMOTS !
11 could. you briefly describe for.mé what role the CIA plays in |
| 12 resettling Cuban emigres?
i 13 A CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emigres.
: 4! ia What Agency is charged with that responsibility?
15 | A Health, Education and Welfare.
16 0. Noes CIA plav anv role in that process?
9 A We may assist if we are. asked but the idea of the whole
18 airlift was having relatives here. for somebodv to claim you when
. 19 you came in so you wouldn't become a ward of the State of the
: 20 Government, and normally when these refugees came.in, thev were |
G 4 {
: 21 | processed through the Center and then they had a place down on
f 29 | Biscavne Boulevard thev called Freedom House and this was, of
3 !
J 23 course, all run by HEW, and they -- if need be and thev had to
: 24 stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and
E care for them in Freedom House.
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5 Hi 0. Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the
i
6 i two groups, what was the name of that group again? f
|
” ii A, SASER, Latin American Social and Fceonomic Research.
8 | 0. We can call them LASER for short? |
i :
9 | A Reallv, they are both -- the onlv reason we separated
I
10 the two groups was for security because we had one group housed j
#
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il | |
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2 a
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a 13 | that is why we took the smaller establishment to preserve some |
2 vs '
9 | |
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i |
15 | 0 Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged i
in?
16!
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1 i A. WEL1, the larger group was engaged in the collection
18 of intelligence. Shey compiled dossiers on the principals
19 | inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every
2 9 |
e 20 | refugee that came throuch the reception center. They provided --
¢ 2 they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a
¢ 1 . ,
5 22 | monthly newsletter based on the information they collected.
3 i ;
4 52 l The information these people collected as opposed to the i
§ . |
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\ 3 ; information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That |
3 24 ; |
3 came from -- all the information thev had came from human sources
= 26 |
|

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| or overt publications. Ye subscribed -=- well, the proprietarv
}

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subscribed to a number, a great manv newspapers, periodicals,

0 Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,

i .
| Spanish language type things.
{

| weren't they?
H
A. I don't know if you could call it clandestine. What

did you have in mind?

0. Well, would thev run agents in the community?
| A Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban
i community, yes.
0. and that is clandestine collection, isn't it?
A, WE11, I call that human resources.
| 0. All right. Where are these files now?
A They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of

1
I them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We
|

to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great
information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a
gal who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won

a swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those

files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't

have any pertinancy at all.

A Right.

Dp

Are there. soft cover files as well?

|
i is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?

| ; SEC RET [ : Photocopy from
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HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 67

| went down there several vears ago just looking through the files

Qa How are the files organized? You indicated before tha


For each Cuban refugee?

Not for each Cuban refugee.

SECRET

I would think,

66

I think, as I
A i recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,

5 | we had I guess the manilla files, probably went into the tens

Now, is there any wav to determine from those files

| which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens?

Has there been anv effort to make such a determina-

We made an effort at one time but this

So I take it -=

That is how far thev are behind.

So there is no central index vou can go to.

I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the

Absolutely true.

Now, are any of those files likely to contain

derogatory information about the individuals.involved?

-- you can

become nationalized out in California and your record of

i nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for

I mean,

| there is a central index you can go to but it.is.not current.

CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langlev on Cubans who

One of the things these people do, of

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a SEGRE T 67
course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from
anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a
Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people
as. possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask
that all the information on that individual be assembled so that
we could do a complete target study -- habits, you know,

evervthing right down the line. In case of some of the more

important ones, of course, we had psvchological studies prepared

where we had enough information. But this is one of the things |
. |
!

these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on th

first.mate of the -~ one of the Cuban ships, then thev would |
start looking through the papers or anything else to come up |
with anything thev could on what the guy's current activities !
are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.

0 Well, the AMOTS were going to be the intelligence
service of Cuba?

A. Right.

a And they obviously were going to perform some function
in addition to recruitment of agents?

A. Right.

0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence,
gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the
traditional skills, is that correct?

AL: That is about right.

0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for

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purposes other than recruitment?

A. )06Well -=-

0. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these
files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible
internal security problem?

A. No. No. They didn't keep those types of files. We
would simply task them with through your sources what do you
have on so and so. They would not be told the reason why we

wanted the information on anvhbodv.

0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several
million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
those files?

A. Well, that is right.

0 So I guess I won't ask vou to do so, but I want to ask

vou this. I trust that there is the possibility that some of

these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga~
tory information?

A I would assume so.

0. And that so much of them may -- some of the subjects
of those files mav now be American citizens?

A Right.

0 And finally I take it that no effort has been made to

studv that particular situation?

A. WELL, we did make an effort to do it at one time.

; a
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2 SECRET 69 |
| .
3 t
8 1 | You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,
+ i :
= 2 | whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their
=]
is]
5 3 names turn up on manifests and this type of thing. Well, these
E 4 | are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards i
5 i were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
6 | at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
.
7 jl what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-
8 | tion in the machine svstem that would show that this guy had |
, | become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So ==:
9 5
!
. t
10 | 0. Excuse me, off the record. |
11 (Off the record discussion)
12 | MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
4 i
2 .
q
BY MR. MANFREDI:
3% 13 |
:
z ia | 0. I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind
z an
15 | where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are -
{ ;
16 | presently here in Washington?
7 | A The cards and what is left of the files.
18 | 0. That is the soft cover files?
| A Yes.
” 19
8
8 0. And -=<
G 20
@ 21 A. I assume they are either here or down at the
5
g Records Center.
2 £2
4 2% 0 And where is the computer svstem?
F 24 A. You mean our machine system? We have --
S 5 | 0. The machine here that vou tried to match up with the
= Zz

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8 information on the cards?
3 i
s 2 | A Right down on the third floor.
8 3 | 0 That is not the hvdro system?
2 4 | A, Oh, no, no.
I
5 i 0 This is a separate --
H {
L _ . |
6 A, This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division
i
9 | uses this particular system.
i . 3 ‘
8 : 0. What kind of records -- «trike that.
9 | The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev?
:
} |
Ll n T thought they were going out in June. |
; A Well, okav. They are on the books until June.
F 12}
<
. 13 0. I see. |
: |
q 14 | A. But they have all been let go. They were let go ~~
3 { : : I
+, ] they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to
he
o find a job.
16 | g J
T 0. ‘Do they have any facilities, phvsical facilities, in
Miami at this time?
138 | ;
}
A nO.
o 19 |
8
& 20 0. So there are no records in Miami?
Y ‘ i
G |
Z 27 | A, No. No. We broudht all those records back here.
E 29 | Q. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities
: |.
a | in the Miami community?
|
2 23 |
3 | A No. No.
3 Ba)
S 25 | & t Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups?
|
i}

Gerald Ford Library

| . SECRET ‘Photocopy from

HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 72

4 SECKE! ta

SERRE Eeeeaeeeeene

3 1 A Hot to mv knowledge.
z i
; 2 ; 0. What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that
2 !
é 5 ! was not doing debriefings?
2 4 | A. Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would
5 ti send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemispher
i
6 ; to train some of the local services in those countries. They
i
y served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in
{ listening posts where we had audio --
0. Foreign listening posts?
A, Oh, ves, foreign, ,
a) Any domestic listening posts? |
A, No, no.
‘ 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people? |
: | A I would assume -~- this I cannot answer because I reall
wg | don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but |
16 ' to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance |
1 j conducted by them.
se! “Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,
. me don't know where it could be.
: 20 | 0. What intelligence gathering activities did thev
6
: 21 | conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
3 \; ‘ .
E 22 | A One. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban
4 93 | community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
5 oa | castro groups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
: 25 | ana Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government

|
|

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Qa

Phone (Area 202} 544-6000

W>

an

NI

WARD & PAUL

22

235

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003

245

ad Ee oe RE rd

agencies in Miami plus’ the State government enforcement agencies
up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -~ the
Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they

started to tighten up.

I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing

alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when

there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these

‘militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked

up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau,

this type of thing.

|
|
|
|
0 These people were arrested? |
A. Oh, ves. |
0. Prosecuted? . |
A. Not really. .
0. Any of them American citizens?
A Not to mv knowledge,
0. This would be Alpha 66 type groups? |
A I don't know whether this guy ~- well, you know, they |

are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. [I don’

know if they ever did get him in jail but thev had him up on

He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever

served any time or not I don't know. ..I know he was convicted

so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.
but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. So
| |

| ( Phot f
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_ SECRET

8 5 I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went
= 2 . to jaul or not.
a i _ ;
5 5 i 0 Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
po i 3
E 4 . Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS
5 . engage in?
6 A. Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence --
9 I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest
8 at that time because we knew that thev were infiltrating agents.,|
6 Q ° Cubans were? |
: i
10 | A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well |
o . i
11 ; on the. airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
12 : young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't
iz: 13 — well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did trv to i
a oO |
a
& 14 identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.
3
ag 0. Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau? | ~
20°:
16: A. With the Bureau, ves.
1" . 0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
4 in a better position to do it?
18:
A Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big
3 190
g i factor.
g : ; .
. Q. And this was conducted through the AMOTS?
z i aA «Yes.
: 7
w " Qa How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
5 ; in the community?
z 24 | |
3 i A WELL, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I
+ 25

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HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 75

| ~~ po] ee |

would call a great. number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did

g !
$ 1 i
: |
, 2 | come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the
cl |
g 3 | Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens
2 2 | to it because, yon know, vou just -~- unless vou personally know
| | |
5 | the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as
i
| .
6 well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do.
7 | 0, What other positive intelligence gathering activities |
[
8 were they engaging in?
° A. Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engaged in |
19 | electronic intercept,
1 0. ' Where was that done?
~
.
12 A Down in Florda, down in Homestead.
4 L
2
x 13 | 0. This is Southeast of Homestead?
co) 2s
2 if
é | A Yes.
s a j
+5 | 0. What ere they intercepting?
+5 |
16 I A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the
i

| commo. for the infiltration.
|

As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made

138 |
; 3! available to intercept Cuban, communications, NSA‘ tasks them wit
: 20 | the frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications
G
: 21 i nets they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another
i 20 | important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,
4 23 | sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior
i a | network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coverage|
E |
2 25 is. dictated by NSA. ;

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_ | | SECRET ; Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 76

4

Phone (Areu 202) 544-6600
fae)

WARD & PAUL

© 410 Furst Street, $.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
iw
nw

HY 50955 Docrd:

_ wi RE &

Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin require
ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently

because the common interests, -~ we have a common interest in

i

what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particular)
operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cuban's
were doing, then we would task our people with that. |

For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into |
Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then |
there was absolute silence. So nobodv knew where the thing was.

boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when

But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the

itgcame back on~the-air. And this is the type of thing. As. H

a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200!

Cuban: troops.

.

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. -

(Off the record discussion)

MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
“BY MR. MANFREDI:
0 Were the communications: they were intercepting”
exclusively foreign communications?
A Exclusively foreign communications.
0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus
of which was the United States?

A. No.

0. These were basicallv Cuban Government ‘communications?

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WARD & PAUL

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.c. 20003

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Loi

23

24

25

Docid

| EG IE § fe

A, Right.

| 0. On the Island?

|

| A. Right.

| 0. Or between the Island and other locations?

| A Yes.

i 0 But not between the Island. and the United States?
A. No. Let's go off the record on that. .
(oft the record discussion) |

BY MR. MANFREDI:

|
0. To vour knowledge were the .AM engaging in the |

intercept of any communications, either that facility or else~

7 where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?

A, No.
i
0. Of other communications? i
i A. No.
‘yj 0. Is that their only intercept facility?
A (Nods affirmative)
0 Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike

that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,

| breakins or activities of thqt type other than what we have
discussed -=-
A No sir.

~~ that were conducted by the AMOTS?

!
i
i
A No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.

(Off the record discussion)

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‘

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Phone (Aiea 202) £44-0000

«oO

& PAUL

WARG
4

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20063
tw
~

HY 50955 DoclId:

SECRET . -
BY MR, MANFREDI:

0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS

has been prepared by one of vour members.

A. That is right.
0. What is his name?
A. I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last

name. The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have

to get that for you.
0 What is the title of the study? |
A. The title of the studv -- it is part of the historical
series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The
AMOT Organization.”
0. What is the historical series of the Miami Station? |
A “Tt was done when: Paul Hennessey was down there. ‘wnat. |

we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is set aside

what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things

the station might do or that might occur in the station personnell-

wise, this type of thing, and.then these things are written.

0, I see.

A. At intervening periods of time.

Q When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?

A I think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68.

0. It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?

A. Yes.

Qa And purports to be a fairly complete history of the
|

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WARD A PAUL

» Wastungton, 9.0. 20004

phic, Soll

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activities of the AMOTS?

A It starts back in 1959 when we first started using
this gent..

0. First started using what?

A. First started using, I forget what his name was.

0. I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi-
| ties?
| A Yes.
| 0 And you have a copv of that in your custody?

A Yes.

0, I would like to see that document. And we will try

and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office.

A, Okav.
0 Excuse me just for a minute.
{Off the record. discussion)
MR. MANFREPDI: On the record.
BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would -- let me ask vou
this. There have heen some allegations in the press that

prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents

of the CIA.

us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the

had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn

the examination over to him for whatever time he needs.

‘Photocopy fror
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32275518 Page 60

Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join

Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing

re

ad is eos OS Ee 8

MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, Seorge.

H
z BY 4m, OLSEN:
" zi 0 Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin-
Zz oa . ' i
: ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,
z 4
by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your |
a |
contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
withing this country on behalf of the Agency?
? |
A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff |
8 |
which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the
9
Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in :
1c ee eee timene, | | |
a varietv of intelligence collection and operations. ;
74 .
9, Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? H
5 Lé . os
: A. Desmond Fitzgerald.
2 13°
3 Q And who was his immediate superior? :
° ~* A Dick Bissell. ixcuse me. No. At that time it was
~~ Dick Helms. He was the DEP. |
16 -
0. Neputyv Director for Plans?
~ A Deptuty Nirector for Plans. i
: - i
13 . . ; .
~ 0 What period of time are we talking about now?
- 19 . . . oy
g A. Ye are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.
: 20 |
= : MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
E al | (Off the record discussion)
= aa BY MR. OLSEN:
a - .
3 6 RG 0 So vou were not involved in this Special Activities
: aa % Group during the 1959 to 'S1 period? |
= 26 4

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— a a my uh

i
i
. . s 3 oa . . !
2 a Or the period leading up to the Bav of Pigs? i
S 4 : H
¢ - |
g A No.
a . |
& 2:
“ i Q And vou were not involved in this program at all during
é 5 |
2 ithe same time that E. Howard Hunt vas involved in it?
é & |
A No.
5 :
0. Do vou know what «he vosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in:
6 . .
connection with the Cuban operaticns of the Agencv during the
7 . :
: period of 1959 to ‘Si?
BS 4 . ; :
Ay To my recollection, Noward Hunt was on the Covert

_ Action Staff dealing in provaganda.

4, Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in

this country?

1s:
3 A. Mo. Cuban people abroad.
2 LS
2 QO And what-was his connection with the planning for the.
< a: :
2 i ms . :
Bay of Pigs? :
a : :
A. I would have to review the record to reallv answer
16 !
that. I don't know.
~ Q Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami
““ area? |
* 19 - . . . _ : :
3 \ A He commuted quite a bit.
x 20. ox eins .
a ‘ 0. Setween Washington and -= :
5 21: . a
2 : 4 Washington and Miami.
2 ‘|
= ae ° 0. ~= and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early
a -
3 RSs 4642
5
3 24 . ;
= a. Right.
a a Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his
‘ _
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HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page &2

ae ee a EA ie 8

|
|

3 1 : published materials that he was the person who was in charge of |
z 9 | organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which
5 ij .
cs :|
Z Sj would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall
2 1 |
2 2 | where that was?
ss v i
5 By That could be auite true.
6 a Have vou reviewed, “Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
6
ry files relating in any wav *o the Cuban operations and particu-
3 ‘ larly with reference to wnether they reflect anv contacts i
9 between the Aqency and Prank Sturgis?
uf A. Yes. 5
3: a. Or Frank Fiorini?
ao? A. There is no relationship. H
me f '
Z lz 0 Is it vour testimony that the records and files of :
: ° |
Z _ the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
3 14 . H
,. . nature with Frank Sturgis?
rT A To mv knowledge chat is true.
~
, oo
a 0. I take it from that that you are emphatic in your
1s testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency?
a A Extremely emphatic.
2 19 .
§ : 0. And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
3 20 8
2 27 he was never a contract agent of the Agency?
a te i
= . j
3 F A, Exactly.
Z 22 }
“ 4, Do vou know wherher he ever served in the capacity
POR, |
a ; of being an informer or informant to the Agency?
3 24 |
2 5 | A It is possible that he could have been a source.
7 25 5
i

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4, YOu me@an a source of -=
A, Source of information of another aqent. Another

agency agent.

0. No the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?

Re To my knowledge I don't recall anything like that but |

it is entirely possible that “hat could have happened without
being a matter of record.

Qa Do the files of the Agency reveal anv instance what-

ever in which Frank Sturqis as ever asked to undertake anv.

kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agenev?

tha

To my knowledge, nothing.

0 Do the files of the Agencv reveal any evidence

whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or

indirectly bu the Aqdency?

x To mv knowledge, no.

a) Now, when you say "to mv knowledge, no", in answer
to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that
you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the
basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files?

a On Frank Sturgis, ves.

0 Okav. During the veriod of time that vou were with
the Special Activities Group “rom 1963 to '66, first of all,
can vou tell us when that beaan in 1963?

a When the Special Activities Group --

Q No. When vour contact with the Special Activities

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i

322755168 Page 64

oe tm “al 2% iin Bi |

3 > Group began?

: i |

a ' 2 |

a 2 4 A It began -~- well, it began around June of '63.

od |

3 H . . . co

g 3 i: 0. Now, with particular reference to the last half of — |

< i .

z ‘|

z 2 11963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been |

: |

= ‘involved, were there a creat manv. Cubans in the southern United |
4 ' States who were active in vravolutionaryv fronts that were beind

7 § sponsored by the Agencr?

A Wellm vou mean Acencv sponsored fronts?

Yes.

?
2

tha

The Agencv subsidized these-fronts in an effort to

have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro

SECRET

2
39) factions. Obviously the leaders-of the fronts knew that the
a ac If |
Z i ae a |
* +% | CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
g 4 |
< ., , fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agencv ;
2 _~= - :
-. , or the U.S. Government. i
ar: 0. But when vou sav "supposedly," does the fact appear
! . |
~ -, , to be otherwise? i
ae . i
3 “A WELL, based on mv experience with the Cubans and this
ao 7 |
{ . ; . .
sq i type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
~ ag 0 H
im] : . }
g 50) it wouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface
: i itself.
8 21 |
ey a i
3 22 | 0 Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.
2 me ft . '
© i i
ud sl we : :
3 53 Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be |
S of . .
A ., | bnvolved in the CIA orqanizations?
3 a4 3
= 4 . .
: 25 jf ‘ ves. Photocopy from
~ Gerald Ford Library
i

HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 65

¢ n “ sg ‘ z .

8 2 0. And again with particular reference to the Miami

= i , -

4 i ~

Py 2 . area?

a i

3 sh A. Yes.

: | : |
2 eg O Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere

in the United States? <I am asking now particularly with

cn

reference to New Orleans,

rep)

ane A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. tt am

really not familiar with chat happened in New Orleans that was

6

SECRET Photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library

oii
' - 4.
> | Sort of a sideshow to Miami,
- 0 But the same is -= it is possible that some of the
~
-- #} Same Cuban organizations ‘rhich were being sponsored or funded
a_- i
i
ss) BY the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?
3 a
e . 4 a. I don‘t know if = can answer that, whether thev had
s ~o
a noe ; .
= -. {| the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for
= o_o :
.. | subsidizing the Organizations in Miami was carried out through
-, | New Orleans.
aa d Q Well, can vou he more specific about what vou mean
_. - by that?
. AY Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we
S , were subsidizing there had *o be some ostensible source of
3 BC 4
2 _} imcome for them to continue what they were doing. A great
Kea 5 .
3 i mumber -= well, not a qreat number, but a number of select
3 225 .
“ ; people were -~ well, thev were selected and then thev were
a : talked to, to pose as trustees, if vou would, or directors or
~
= ie :
3 ij whatever vou might have of some of these organizations in order
7 25
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to Cubans or Cuban grouns?

ee |

to get the funding through to the organizations.

These people were normally prominent people and --

4 And did thev get funded by the Agency, then, through

the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople?

A These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friendi
of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity,
and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this
type of thing. Could vour organization give us any monev, and
the guv. on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend
you $25,900 or something like that, or donate $25,990, This is
the wav the funding went into the fronts.

9, And was some of that funding arranged through veonle
in New Orleans?

A. I would think so. Tf believe so,

D>

Were any of «he people in New Orleans through whom
that funding operation was effected peonle who turned out to be

invoived in the investiaqations conducted bv Jim Garrison?

“R - Nok to mv knowledce. : :

ror How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with
the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance}

i
i
i
i
i

A I couldn't sav. = am just not familiar with -- we hadi

a@ great manv people that did this. ; |
0. How about Clav Shaw? Was Clav Shaw ever used as a

funding source? ,

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:32275518 Page 67

aa? On Sas BX Eee

x

1
'
; |
. 7 “3, This I do not know either.
3
3 2 9. Pardon?
z 5 a This I don't know.
3 a BY MR. MANFREDI:
, i
5 0 Where would that information be available?
é A Well, we have a cuvy that used to work with me who was
Gown in New Orleans at that «ime. He would probably know.
9 - i
3 0, Is he in the building? i
t
re) A Yes. soa
+e a) What is his name?
++ A Bill Kent.
A |
16 Q Bill Kent! |
ad ~~ i
:
> _ A. Yes.
+ L
z -. BY MR. OLSEN:
_ a Who is 8i12ESenhic with now? Which department?
=e 7 |
. . . |
as A. He is still with the ppo.
as .
|
a BY MR. MANFREDI: !
_ |
_ a Western Hemisphere Division? i
Lé , |
|
_ A, No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -~ I
x o>, think Career Management Group Staff.
J AG; !
: 3 ® - Is he officed near vou? i
: ~~
= a No. He is cown in the basement.
2 22 - |
> ',
4 . BY MR, OLSEN: |
= Be |
s 24 Q. Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were|
z 4 |
oa ; : oo j
2 ag chat were used to orovide funds to the ==
= Pas) \
'

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Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 86

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A. Oh, ves.
0. -- to the Cuban movements?
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0. No vou know whehter -= do vou know the identity of anv

of them in New Orleans?
A No. Ho. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took

llace in New Orleans.

0, I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary

for providing funds =o the Cuban fronts?
A The files chat Ihave don't reflect it.

0. I think we covered this already tust a few minutes aga
but let me make sure that we have: got it on the record. H
i
t

I understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963

shat larqe numbers or Cuban exiles, Cuban neonle in the southern
- |

United States, salked about and believed that they were involved
in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? 1
A. That is richt. : :

0. Was 12 also vour understanding and vour impression

that there was a qood deal of talk among this Cuban element in
|
the southern United States about plans or vrospects for the

assassination of Fidel Castro?

oa

I would sav no. = don't think there was -- you have,

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got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost

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their homeland, their wossessions, they lost everything and they|
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blamed it all on one man.

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0, That is Fiedl Castrc?
A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do

anything thev could to get rid of him.

0, Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among
these Cubans?

A I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probablv was
a lot of talk about that.

0. Did vou participate vourself in the overhearing or

such conversations?

Ay Wo.

0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to
you?

A. Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the

source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the
Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing
that this subject alwavs came up. “What were they going to do
with Fidel? How are thev doing to get rid of him and this type
of thing. i don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the
Cuban exile community was discussing.

Q Yes. Do vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the
Agency in 1963?

A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the
DDP.

a) This is vour hest “recollection --

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A, Yes.

9. -- at the moment. Is it possible that he was with
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Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries

engaged --

a. I guess vou are right, ves. I believe he was there.
0 Did vou personally know Howard Hunt?
a. No.
| 2 Never men him?
; A iomet him. That is all. I can't say I know him.
' a You would not nave Xnown anvthing about his where-
abouts on anv particular dav, then. Is that true?
; A. Can we go off the record?
| (Off the record discussion.}
THE WITNESS: iet's go back on the record.
BY MR. OLSEN:
rT
: Q I would like to have it on the record.
‘ A Do vou have a particular day?
0, Mo. I am just askina vou if vour acquanitance with

Hunt was such that vou sswould have known of his whereabouts on

anv particular dav.

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0 Was it very infrequently that you ever saw him?

A. Oh, ZI would see nim in the halls, this type of thing,
but -- bump into him rerhans downtown on the street. —

0. But vou would have no occasion for. knowing from one

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A No,

Q. Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf

of the Agency as to where ne was on November 22, 1963?

A. Yes.

a) And when did vou conduct that inoauirvyv?

A. Eonave done it twice that I recall and the most recent
one was I guess -- I am just trving to think. Well, it wasn't

lonq ago hecause we did have an inquiry and we obtained the:
time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which

showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day.

0 Was this just fairiv recently?

:
A Yes. ,
A, I understood from what files I have seen, Mr.

Sturbitts, that the coniv records that were available from the
Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
during the two-week vav neriod ending the 23rd of November but
that the records were not svailable as to how much sick leave |
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or annual leave had been taken on any particular dav. ;

A. Well --.

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9. Am mistaken?

A As I recall. he was in a duty status one dav and a

sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day.

Z would have to check that with mv Budget and Fiscal Officer.

He is the chap that cot that for me..

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3 1 9 Can vou check that for us?
= 5 A Sure.
sg 2
3 5 0. And give us the results of that?
E a AL Yes.
5 0, Because this is much more detailed information than
5 I have been previoulv aware is available in the files of the
% Agency.
8 a. All right. I will do that.
3 BY MR. MANFREDI:
1c a) Do vou want to make a note of that?
11 A Let me have a niece of paper.
12 0 yOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which
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; 1 is 351-5196.
9
= ve THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?
3 a=
—_ BY MR. MANFREDI:
_ a That is the dav.
_ A 1963.
17
- a. In response to whose inquiry was that investigation
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made?
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3 A Yt don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I
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: ' don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether --
2 21.
3 “ twill just have to check that. I don't know who it was.
2 22 |
a And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the
= 23
3 ~ inquiry?
2 A No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefully
+ 26

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E 1 0. You said there was 4 previous inquiry?
: 2 : A Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt
i 5 who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of
E z : European Division.
5 | 9. When was that inquirv received?
6: A That was about a vear ago, I guess,
9 BY MR. OLSEN:
8 0, About the first time these photographs began to be
5 circulated?
1 3 A ses.
wo 0. About the bums in Nallas?
le A Yes, and actually I think this -= Archie's inquiry |
3 |
= jz ; came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe, Archie was.
: ,;,  Chief.of Station, London, Zor a long time and he apparently
2 i¢ : ) i
-- Made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. |
16 0. This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm H
1 Magazine? |
_ A That is right. |
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19 0. And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with
: 50 the Office of Finance that it was positivelv ascertained that |
2 o1 dunt was on sick leave on November 22nd? |
3 aan ,
i 28 i A Well, I will have to check that. That is the way
: 23 I understood it but I did aet this through our Budget people who
3 24 have the contact with the Office of Finance.
Z ae ‘ :
: 25 | a And that he was on annual leave the day before?
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AL No, He was on a duty status the day before, on sick

leave, and then on duty status the following day.

BY MR. MANPFREDI:

0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's
previous pattern with respect to sick days had seen?

A, (Nods in negative)

BY MR. OLSEN:

a November 22, 1963, was a Fridav, When you say that

records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day -~

A It was a Tridav. Then I was mistaken,
Q Does that mean ne was on duty the following Monday

or on the next dav, Saturday?
ay No. On the following Mondav. I didn't realize the

22nd was a Fridav.

nwo

Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief
memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting
documents vou can find?

A Okay.

o. As promptiv as possible on this question.

tH

think that covers the subject matter.

AR. MANPREDI: T.can give vou another moment iE you want.
Can vou think of anvthing else?

MR, OLSEN: I chink that is all.

jl .
MR. MANFREDI: Okav.: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

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“HW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 95


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24 0. Iam Sorry For the interruption but over’ the long
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2 24 We are talking ahout newspaper editors when we were inte
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5 to be fair,
7 ‘Is it not « Fact that the Agency had some relationship w:
8 : some prominent newsvaner officials in the Miami area?
fol A Yes °
an 0 And what vas ‘the Nature of that relationship?
“ae A Traditionally the Chief of Station Maintained the
25 relationship with officials of the Miamy Herald, Particularly i
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2 -3 ' Latin American editor, as well as relationships with staff
z -. "’lembers of it, I think i+ is the Miami News and Stringers’ for
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newsnaners ang "@riodicals Stationed in Miami,

a} what was the purpose of those relationships?

I reaily couldnt+ Sav what the Prupose of the relation

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ship was, I mean, =he same reason that we establish a relation-~

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r 2: a DO vou have any knowledge of use of the press in Miami!
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2 a. i. No. No.

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; 2Q What assistance would you render for members of i
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A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor
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“ | areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations ;
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3 ‘ Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? |
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: i} A Predominantly, I would say prebably the’ Miami '
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organizations?
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ae 2 Was he also used as a source? i
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2 19 A No.
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S i Q Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive
3 ee | Similar briefings? |
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z 22 | A Yes. |
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3 wo 23 Ne talked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time
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2 a4 | about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these
2 - |
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g 7 A Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were

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over, then thev would take care of enlisting the, I guess,
getting membershiv from the Cuban exile community to join.

6 . mo ; :
Q What were their Eunctions, the fronts?
7
A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:
8 . . a .
thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a4 !
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political organization in exile.
~~ 9 Did they conduct any operations? |
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oo A No, not that I know of.
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3 rT 2 Just like a political varty? i

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0 7 A Like a colitical party. :

* “* fe) How many of these fronts were there? |

a A There were several of them. I really don't remember |
° the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary |
+? Democratic Front. = guess that was probably the biggest -one. |
+e _ and’ there were some others.

3 an 2 The RDF?

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: 74 9) All right. Are these groups still in existence?

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: fowould think not. I really don't». know. f

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Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?

qo. There was but there isn't any more. There

hasn't been one there for vears.

I think the station was established around 1958
erhaps it was established before that. I think it
of existence in 1958.

Do vou Xnow wnv it went out of existence?

No, i ton’. = don't have any idea.

Do vou xnow what function it was performing?

(Jods in negative.)

You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked
Cuban community tor the CIA?

He worked with these fronts, too.

Was he mterrorming any intelligence function in the
y?

Intellicence functions. Well --

Was ne coliacting information?

Sure. If he got information that ne thought was
le he would sass it on.
Now, would he have been considered one of the three
ersons empioved or assigned to the Miami Station?
Yes. He was a contract employee.

Ang were intelligence requirements levied on such

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3 71
ig ~ A Normally, the requirements are pretty standard,
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3 a i or they were at that time. But here again, you always have |
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S ° | ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to |
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* be surfaced. i
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5 Q Some of these contract emplovees were, then, in
6 the business cf ccllecting intelligence information in the
? Cuban communities in Miami.
8 A Right. .
9 Q Now, = think we finished with che AMOTS but can
1° you think of any cther functions performed by the AMOTS that
12: we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon? |
; 1é 3 "OR ilo, not really. “lo. |
2
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4 Te 9 I think vou voreviously described them for me as the :
a . i
3 1s eves and ears into the Cuban community. i
.
1s a Right. |
1é Q And they actually had a physicai facility in Miami
|
1" which was their headquarters, did they not?
1é A Exactly. i
n 1g 2 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to super-
iF 2c. vise that facility.
2h A Yes.
3 22° 9 Now, what has nappened to -the AMOTS?
. , - i
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: 26 A The AMOTS were craduaily phased down and will go
y
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x 24 out of existence -- che AMOTS are out of existence, aren't
=
¢ 2c they? Isn't it the AMDUKES or ~- these are the radio. people. |

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2 9 And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?
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& | A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people.
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2 | 9 They are the ones that conducted the intercept
i for NSA?
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| A Yes. The cnly reason we use two different names
6 i . ° -_ .
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A Synonymous.
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5 I A Yes.
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2 ~ | 2 Do the initials stand for anything other than --
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“i A Ho. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt
a somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a
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: crypt. You con't nave anything to do with it. The AM happened
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~" atuithat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.
1ée . - ar . .
ad 8) Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for
94 ; . ; . .
19 | assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the

political conventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly

describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by

the Agency to the Secret Service?

A At the request of the Secret Service we conducted

name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted

v

TIO bead Sifcel,

traced. These includedthe emplovees of all hotels in Miami

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HW 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 101

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Beach where any convention activities were to take place,
employees of catering services, limosine service, employees
in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.
Foreign news people and media, television, radio people.

s) Were these people on whom name traces were requested
all foreign nationals?

A All foreign nationals.

2 Was there any check made to determine whether
any of them were American citizens?

A “de levied on the Secret Service as a requirement

,

that they have identified these people by nationality before
we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time

they did submit a jist, a rather long list of American citizen
which we cromptly sent back to them and told them we could

not trace.

2 And this practice was followed poth in 1968 and
1972?

A That is right.

2 And where were these names traced?

A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The

Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check

nere. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had

more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.

3 But the names were traced through Agency files?

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| 101
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| A Through Agency files.
1 . « . .
H ie) Nas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI
{
| on this as well?

A Oh, yes.
1 . -_ : =
| 9 And in erfect,they were getting an all-Agency name
} +
: check --
| A Right. :
| . . .

Q -- on people who might pose a security threat --

A Yes.
| 2 -- to a candidate?
| A “Well, they were just trying to determine who might

be a security threat..
Q That is right. Potential threat.
- A Yeas.

H 2») For what political parties -- strike that.
1 +
In 1968 was this service orovided for both political
| conventions?
i A Both political conventions.

Q Were they both held in Miami that year?

A Mo. I guess it was in 1972 thev were both held

there. I think it was just, the Democratic in 1968.

a) These requests did come from the Secret Service

rather than --
A From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director

of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for

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support.

2 Do you still maintain the records with respect =o

that tracing activity?

A Tt have all the names that have been traced,

2 And they are on little cards down in your files?
A Yes.

9 Why have those records been maintained? Is there

any reason those records nave Seen maintained?
A “ell, because ve were told to maintain them when

the Watercate thing broke,

2 I see.
A And since then nobody will destroy anything.
2 OK. Are you aware of any Dicketing at various

Slaces in the country that has been conducted by Cuban

A iowas not aware of it until I was told of it.
I still don't know whether this waS a Spontaneous action on
the part of these people or whether they were instructed to
do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to,

2 At what locations has it been reported that pickets

were located?

a Airline officas in New York, Miami. I think another

place. I forget where it was,
} flave you in fact been able to verify that these

ersons were Cubans?

ne)

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i A No.

i a) Sith what frequency cid this activity occur?

| A tT don't have any idea. I only know of one instance.
|

1 9 This was in New York City?

t

ee the, Yes B%, fs

A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history

that this indeed did take tlace. ‘low, what I have been trying

to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized

this,whicn I fully doubt.

: 9 Mho was the On-Site Case Officer?.
i ;
2 A At that time it was a fellow by the name of Tony
i
t) Sforza.
a
i
F 9 Is he still alive? |
|
L . : : a : ‘
i A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know i

i whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the
| AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with

Cuba, notably Spain and Creat Britain and France.

|
9 Other than this incident which we --~ strike that.
(
That kind of an investigation have you conducted?
A I have talked to veople, which is really all you
can do. There is no other way vou can do it.

|
5 vou have been unable to determine who, if anyone, |

! authorized this activity? Zave you been able to identify

any of the persons who participated in the picketing?

A New York City and Miami.

Do you know of anv organized political activity that

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32275518 Page 105

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A To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any.

Q Any political activity.

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

the AMOTS engaged in? °
i

Do vou know of any other activities that they have
conducted within this country, they or any of their members
have conducted within this country that we have not already

discussed this afternoon?

yy

4 No.

t

WD

Any political activities? Any operations?

No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain

ii

|
,
i
select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban |
1
|
defectors. In other words, Live with them until they are |
i

resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity

WARD & PAUL

they engaged in. But other than that, I can’t think of any-

i
i
!
i
i

4 i .
25 | thing else.
i {
16 | Q Do vou know of any criminal activities that have
“| |
i7 |! »een attribited to -- !
|
aa aA I nave heard of some allegations which have never
2 19 | been rroven. |
3 a a) What are the allegations?
3
5 ely A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances
3 22 and this type of thind. ~
ul | :
w !
< 23 | 2 Have those allegations been made with any fre- |
a
3 a4 cuency?
:
= 25 a Well, © Forget who it was. It was during the ;
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HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 106 , “

i —T e 105
i
g |
8S 7?
‘ “ || Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out
3 |
a 24 . , 8,
8 <j and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we
|
< “|| made file checks and this type of thing. One varticular
£ 4 soo . : : : -
* * i activity was supnosed to nave been carried out in Rockefeller
5 i ; ; _ ;
. o 3 Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of
|
6 ' context. Tt was a training mission and -- =raining exercise.
? | These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York
|
} . . ; - . 4 ‘ '
8 i and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Mannattay
7
o | -~ Chase Manhattan and ts come back out and then they were '
. 10] supposed to diagram the -~syout of the bank. And this to some
11 || of them meant sasing the kank when in fact it was just a
\
4 12] memory exercise.
a
=
# 13 9 with what frequency were those kinds of training
3 .
& | |
< A . = : : {
3 14 | exercises conducted?
i ~ :
H :
15 | BN Well, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt .
| |
16} that these veople, seleczed individuals, were to be trained |
i -
Ly: in trade craft. |
|
1a | a And did their =rade craft training include such |
|
tt . .
” 19} things as surveillance?
g
. ° i
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3 20 | aA Sure. |
a i
2 Ht : es |
3 21; 2 And break-ins?
a : :
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2 22 | A Mo. «Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As i
é | |
< 23 | said, in the case of this varticular thing, it was misinter-
3 : : !
: i ot
a | - . bee . . ;
3 24 | bretec as casing the hank. These exercises were given -- they |
= i
° i - . _ . . . H
+ 25 | could have walked into veur office, vour outer office and- i
H 1
: . . . .
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HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 107

oh 12

Prone {Area 202) 544-6000
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said -- the instructor could have said two hours latér teil
. f
me what is in that outer office? ‘What is the layout of it?

his is just for observation.

9) You stated earlier none of those allegations have

been proven. Have any of them been proved to your

satisfacticn?
A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.
9 I take it you do not believe they took place other

than the training exercise?

tH

A Oh, no. Mo. don't believe they did.

9 Do you know of any instances where members of that
group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
in this country?

A NO.

9 '- Have you ever been present at any discussions of

the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the

Miami Station within this country?

A Legality? No.
9 Yow about the propriety?
A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.

Mo one to my knowledge, has ever auestioned the legality or
the propriety of having the Station.

3) There have been some allegations in the press and
elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of

that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those?

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Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000

WaRD & PALE.

Washington, 0.0. 20003

410 Fivst Street, S.E.,

22!

23

24

25

aa) am om TG, EH . 107
A Ho.

articles that suggest that she Cuban community is sort of

oa

|
2 We received some corressondence and I have seen some |
|
{
|

a resource: that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various!
operations in this country.

You mean this country?

he

- es ,
2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some!

other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledce

Cuban nationals or exiles for any type

IH

of use by the CIA oc
of operation within this country?
A No.

2 Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided

any Zinancial support for Cuban businessmen in this country?

Hed

No. Not to my knowledge.

che: AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various coliticai front groups,

{

i

>) Other than the maintenance of cover? j

; |

|

A Mo. i
3 Establisnment of businesses?

: |

. i

A No. i

») No? |

H

a Mo |

a) In the course of our discussions today we discussed |

i

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1

revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre,

i
t
Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported

SEC RET | Photocopy from |

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by the Agency, either financially or otherwise?

ww hm GH 8 te e 108

|
2 |
3 | 3 |
8 1 A Hot to my knowledce.
v
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Dp | . ‘ : . a: : ;
= 2 2) Are vou familiar with the appendix that was attached
—]
N
ag
& 3 | to Mr. Colby?s statement?
2 4 } A Yes.
. ae ees |
5 Q Did you have some role in drafting that? |
6 | RN You mean the Miami Station thing? ~ |
i
7 | 29 Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". .
i Aa |
a | A Yes, |
9 9 You wrote it? : ,
i |
: |
ay Yes, i
LO ; |
| woe as ; ; -
ll 9 It has a familiar ring about it. There are references
|
12 to indigenous organizations, emicre organizations. Are
3
< 4 > ’
a 13 there any others other than the ones we have been discussing? |
a i
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; 14 A Not to my knowledge. Shere are, you know, if you
ae | vant, to. call.it an organization, we did, vou know, subsidize
aw
16 | thevhelil“out of Juanita Castro.
L i
| .
_ i Q | Yes, I am familiar with that.
L7
12 | A fou are familiar with all that and that is by the
4
| board now, too.
. 19 |
3 H
8 9 She was. doing -- ~-
5 20
fal
2 ! A Propaganda.
3 22 |
5 ; Q -- pDropaqanda broadcasts. .
2 22 ..
a | A Yes.
< 235 }
J
] 24 2 Do you have any versonal knowledge of what kind of
bed & }
2 25 intellicence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami |
e i . {
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tu He eas BE Bi loo |

4 ad
‘bh 13 7
¢ 1 area now by the Miami Statiscn?
3 i
vs t
a a 4 : ; ae .
S A There are no domestic activities at all in the
3 _!
Oo: . . , is says . i
z Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been movéd back
Fe ao: . oo . a . .
here to Headquarters. The ‘‘iami Station now is completely
5 : . > , . . : .
and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.
6. . cha tthamd @eees
a 9 Does the i!lami Station -- I beg your pardon -- :
" ii ;
| does the Headquarters commenent that now handles the Cuban
aI :
8 | . ; . oo. ; ; . ;
i Situation in Mlami run any agents in the Cuban community? |
i |
9 | a — an
i! A No. Well, let me explain that to vou. We do have
10 | |
‘| a career agent who has been vith us for a good many vears
|
11! Skee ee 3 Ls .
+4 in Miami and we do use nim =o contact relatives of Cubans
| |
i 12 | who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the U.S. |
: !
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3 14: Now, this is done crincipally with the idea of a
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avon cecrultment target, determine weaknesses or strengths, this |
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16 |} type of thing. ile does contact these people all over the
an - . saa +
an United States. If we come across an individual that. looks lik
18 & ne might be recruitable, or verhaps we could even double hin,
z
2 19 }! we will, after we make our creliminary assessment, and we
2 4 ;
N AY . . .
J 20 find out where relatives anc these types of people are, we
a iH . .
5 I
g Hi . . . . .
g 21% will ask this career agent or instruct him to go ‘contact
g |
3 22 || these people, be it New Yors, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-
ui | So
3 zi
é 25 || ever.
3 i
a _ ; ;
3 24. - 2 So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this i
3 i : i
> 25 | country, aS access agents. : _ i
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HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 111

waren)

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ae | A Right.
3 H
a 2h: _ 2 .
3 | Q Just like foreicn associates would do.
a . -
a S| |
= A Exactly. |
6 H
= i H
* & | i) Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who |
d 4
5 4 . . - os : .
v | are contract emplovees or the Agency who still work in the
| .
6 ‘ Miami-Cuban community?
7
i A do. None.
1
a
8 Q That entire apDaratus has been --
7 || a das been dismantled. ;
| | |
t
10 | 9 -~- dismantled. ‘hat is the current size of the
(
il | Miami -Station? i
| |
F le. A’ I really don't know but it runs between 1l and 14,
i | | |
3 13 } aS far as I know. I think it will be 11 by the next fiscal
a
3 140 vear. !
15 | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record:
16 (Discussion off the record.)
q .
17 MR.MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
i . |
18 | BY MR. MANFREDI:
ie
3 19 | Q . There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
3 i ;
5 20} of iiami?
ta
g 21 | a uo. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of |
¢ fF
$ 22 |) Seadquarters. -
ad |
a |
3 23 |} i) And even from the Neadquarters location there are
|
a
3 24 | no varamilitary operations?
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HW 50955 Docld

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Q No covert -~ well, there is some propaganda activity
being conducted stiil? .
A On a very small scale, and the covert action faciit

that we had, the radio, taped program, is being terminated

by 30 June. So for all sractical purposes, it is terminated

now.

9 The Miami Station is under official cover.

A Yes,

2 And it nas been decreased to how many peovle?

A Between il and 14.

©) And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
respect to Cuba?

A Absolutely none.

9) And its responsibilities are entirely directed to

other Latin American countries?

A To Caribbean countries.

9 Caribbean countries. And £ trust that there are
other Agency Stations in the Caribbean?

A Yes.
2 Nell, = have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts.

If vou have anything vou would like to add you are welcome

A No, I have nothing.
3 I want to thank vou on behalf of myself and the

Commission for vour cooperation. ;
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a Sure.

That is all right.

wad

Thank you again.

1

(Whereupon, at 3:35 o'cl

deposition was concluded.)

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p.m.,

a) I am sorry we had to take so much of your time.

the taking of

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