178-10002-10091

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ROCKCOM
178-10002-10091

SCHWARZER-MANFREDI FILES
S-M (IV-W)

Document Information

ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION

DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM C. STURBITTS

04/16/1975
113

ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES
ASSASSINATIONS, FOREIGN LEADERS
CIA

CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS

CUBAN EXILES

FERRIE, DAVID

STURGIS, FRANK

HUNT, E. HOWARD

MIAMI

NEW ORLEANS

SHAW, CLAY

STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.

GARRISON, JIM

DEPOSITION
Secret

1A; 1B; 1C
Redact
02/13/2001

Unknown whether name is releasable.

HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 1

2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
Date: 87317201

te

Deposition of

William C. Sturbitts

Pione {Area 202) 944-6000
ay

y » William Cc. Sturbitts
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178-10002-10091

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HY 50955 Docl dq: 32204971 Page 2

SECRET

(Resumed)

SECRET

Examination by Counsel

For the Commission

2

i (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)

58

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Gerald Ford Library


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a | ON CIA ACTIVITIES
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; 4 Langley, Virginia
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‘ Wednesday, April 16, 1975
1
6
H Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for
7 ; A . as a
1 examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,
By
| the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary
Gus oe, ; :
: Public in and for. the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
t
ae Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50
i. ; o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings»
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: Le being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. MeClenning, and
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5 1°! transeribed under her direction.
3 sO APPEARANCES:
2S 4 On behalf of the Commission:
16 | GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ.,
I ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.
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HW 50955 Docld:32204974 Page 3

SECRET


2 4
: PROCEEDINGS |
= 2
a Thereupon, |
: ° WILLIAM C. ‘STURBITTS, mace
z ¢ 7
* * called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA
5 Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary
6 Public, was examined and testified as follows: |
’ EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION
6 BY MR. MANFREDI: .
9 Q Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the
10 record?
it A William C..Sturbitts.
2 1é . Q Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some
s
: 15" weeks ago you signed a document entitled, “Advice and ©
: 14 waiver"?
LS A Right.
16 0) You understand that document is still in effect?
17 “A Sure.
16 Q Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?
2 19 A You mean the Agency or -~
3 :
: £0 Q That is right.
: 21 . A Central Intelligence Agency.
: 22” Q And what is your current position with the Agency?
Li
3 23 A I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for
: 24. REeonomic Intelligence Collection and Operations.
3 25 : Q And would vou briefly review for me the history of

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your employment with the Agency?
A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence

Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on specia
detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, piand,

which is now the Directorate of Operations.

Q What year were you put on that detail?

A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.

Q And what did that detail involve?

A Cuban operations, economic warfare.

Q And how long were you on that detail?

A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.

2 Between 1964 and. 1973?

A (Nods in affirmative.)

5 And in 1973 did you assume your current position?

Q Now, while you were on special detail -- to the DOD?
A . Yes. | |

Q Were you stationed in Washington?

A Yes.

Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami?

A Yes.

9) Were your activities in Miami in any way connected

with the operations of the Miami Station?

A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.

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A Yes, January.
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I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami. |
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Most of my operations were run out of Europe.

is) Run out of --

A Eurove. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones

were run out of Europe.

a Well, in the course of your activities with respect
to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the
operations of the Miami base?

A Yes.

2 And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?

A Yes, sir.

9 During the nine years you were with ppo's Cuban
operations, who was -~ who were the chiefs of the Miami
Station?

A . I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know

it. Well, I will come back to that.
Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze.

Q What years was he Chief?

A I think ‘Baul was there about a year and a half. He

Left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's
say HehZe was there from 1966 to 1968.
He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.

Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which
you were assigned for the 9-year period?

A Well, when I first came in it was known as the

; Photocopy from
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And then Jake Esterling.


SECRET 5

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= : Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.
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8 | And then, f believe after that it became the Cuban Operations
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2 | Group.
2 a a .
Q Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was
5 . : - ar
it attached to one of the area divisions?
6 ; ; ;
A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a tning |
7
called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And
8 , = Lee oe vo
that -~ when Harvey left, he went to tef of-Station, Rome,.
9 , oy eit ete
. and Fitzgerald took over, 1% became Special Activities Staff.
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It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the
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Deputy Director, Plans.
; 12. . .
z : Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?
¢q .
: 130
~~ A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it
14 : es : :
3 _ was first created. Helms was DDP at that time.
Ik .
oe Q And Task Force W was created immediately after the
16 Bay of Pigs? -
LF oA Nell, not immediately. I think sometime around --
i6 ' lin the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in
3 1g September, something like that, 1961.
e 20 Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities
= 21 : Staff?
$ RES A Special.Activities Staff and consequently became the
a :
= BS “Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went
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2 245 pack into the Western Hemisphere Division.
7 25 9 And what was the date of that reorganization?

HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 7

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: ° A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around|
3 2 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then
i S later DDP.
: 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. |
5 ° Harvey held after he left Task Force W? |
6 A Yes. He wasiChief of Station, Rome.
” _ Q And is he still with the Agency? |
. |
8 A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. !
Q 2 Do you know where he lives at the present time?
ine) A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.
li He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. |
, 19 Harvey is a lawyer. !
3 . i
: 12 9 Indianapolis area?
: i4 A Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest,
1s Indiana. |
|
16 Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force
1
18 A Tt was'the overall Cuban operations. |
- 19 Q Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab- |
: 20 lished? |
: 21 A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base own)
E 29 there about 1960 which was small, ‘in: Coral. Gables. |
3 23 Q This was, then, srior to the Bay of Pigs? |
3
; 24 A Oh, yes. |
2 26 2 Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami

. Photocopy from
SEC RET Gerald Ford Library ‘

HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 6

sECKET ,

& Station running any operations against Cuba?
a 2:
a H A You mean orior to. the Bay of Pigs?
4 5 |
2 : Q Yes.
i 40 }
A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a |
5 | |
forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type
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thing.
7 - ,
" 19} Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was |
. |
8) established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban |
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tC A Yes. H
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1i- Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami
Q 3 .
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4 1s | A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. :
3 is Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special |
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+5. activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group? |
16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station
i? " has no Cuban operations. |
}
ic. Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- |
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2 19: pated? _
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3 20 4 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down ;
= |
3 21° there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was |
3 22% in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. |
= go Q And have those operations been terminated entirely
5 24! or are they now run out of the Washington area?
E i |
+ 25 i A All. Cuban operations are run out of Washington.

Photocopy from
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HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 9

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: + : There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.

3

§ é 2 But there are some Cuban operations being run out of

< 5 the Washington area?

i 6 A Right.
3 9 Is that correct? |
6 A Right. Worldwide. |
7 : Q Mr .Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may |
8 ; have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina-
9 tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination

CO attempts that have been mounted -~

25 I recall, he wanted some British -- I mean Belgian rifles and

lit AN Right.
2 le: Q -- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your
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3 iS activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any suchi
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3 li" attempts? .
: 1
LE A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say
16 > attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too
17" strong a word.
16: Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of
: !
3 19: any such discussions? |
5 20, A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, |
: 21; I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald
i i ,
2 22 I in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -~ let me put
: |
: 23.( it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on
: |
24 ij, with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, 4s |
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HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 10

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2 : A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think
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reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald
9
met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-
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tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy.
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9 : oo. . . |
: I provided all those files. . There are 19 valumes that :
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. we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing !
aa . . '
“+ them... I think Belin was going to do it himself.
2 12. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself.
« i
: Loo You said there were 19 volumes of documents with i
2 * 4
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5 ~= - respect to this. |
|
Vs : . . 1
ae A 19 files, manila. |
16 9 All having to do with possible assassination? |
it A All having to do with this whole time period and -- |
le can we go off the record for a minute? |
3 ig (Discussion off-.the record.) |
: 20 BY MR. MANFREDI: |
z : |
= 21 @) The first knowledge of such conversations that you
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2 ee" had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr.
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5 £3 °° Pitzgerald?
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2 24 A I simpiy overheard it, that is right.
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7 25 QO “And who were the parties to the conversation you overt

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HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 11

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A i A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez.
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2 ‘| Q And Mr. Fitzgerald? |
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- people. We were -- we nad just moved the Station at that time,
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“ < in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace
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2 ie A Yes. |
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2 car Q I see. |
3 aa) Mr. Sanchez -- was he a member of the military?
LE A No.-.Mes,, Sanchez was.,in the Special Activities Staff.
16 | He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with
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iv" Cuban military+stype.
ic Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had received
2 io: instructions with respect to this activity from another
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3 21: A Well, let me out it this way. I don't know whether
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3 221 they received instructions. [ have to assume, and I am pretty
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3 24; And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was
2 4 . .
* | overseeing this deal, 2resumably for his brother, and he was

25 |

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part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided

the did a number of things.

Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall

in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of

Fidel Castro was discussed? : i

A No, not really. : i
Q You referred to this as the first occasion.
1
A This is the first -- |
|
9 Was there a second? i
A -~- the first time I knew about it or even heard it

discussed.

Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently

underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigati

-- were there any other occasions in which this subject came

Paris?
A The only other thing that came to my attention was

that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight
that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don't know,

but that is what I was told.
Q When did vou learn that?

A Oh, I would assume in -~ must have been early 1964,

around February, something like that.

We

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Q off the record. |
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(Discussion off the record.)

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32204971 Page 13

a Em et BN hn B 12

z 7 MR. MANFREDI:- On the record.
5 2:
5 : BY MR. MANFREDI:
2 3 i
~ wd / Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by
- * _ the name of Franx Sturgis?
° A Indeed.
© Q Is your Zamiliarity based on what you have read in
7 .
the press?
© A No. It is what is contained in the files.
? Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,
is particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,
i. in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any
z Le 2: connection with the Agency?
: -
2 ie A I have.
Z a
z a a) What were the results of that search?
=o A Absolutely no connection, never has been.
eS Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about
17. an employment relationship?
Le A That is what I am speaking of.
n i3 Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of
8 :
20. the Agency?
3 2h A No.
3 22° Q Was he ever a contract employee?
3
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= ze A No.
5
a 24 Q Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency?
2 No.

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Agency?

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pated in any

Q

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over Cuba and

thing that comes to mind, I think he made a

SECRET -

Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the

Not to my knowledge.

Do you

type of paramilitary or other operation against
On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this

How aid vou learn of those operations?

Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports.
Now, are these recent FBI reports?

Oh, no. These go back -~ I know at one time, the

leaflet drop

this was subsequently reported in the press and

by the Bureau office in Miami.

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indirectly financed by the Agency through -- i

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32204971 Page 15

fortune: has been.

with the Agency.

Q

Do you know who financed his activities?
I have no idea.
Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were

I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of ©

When I went through his file they wanted me

to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't

destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance."

Off the record.
Photocopy from

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know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-

He has constantly tried to associate himsel

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(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: On the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

to Mri,

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Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect

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Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
é 5 =
A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
7 . . ;
Q And wnat is the volume of that material?

A As I recail, there are five volumes. Your Committee |

¥ called for them the other day after the article in the paper,

-~ I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and!

+ they returned them Monday afternoon. ,
= “* 6) De you know who examined those files?
: 13 :
5 A No, I don't. .
= : . ( :
3 += Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts !

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a the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? |

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_— A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits

+) of so-called information.
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Le Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged

19 ; , |
g ne narcotics traffic?
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e 20 . A Recently it has been.
2 et Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office
2 22" in Miami?
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A 7 :
3 ze A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami
2 na to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the

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Q Do vou know whether or not they consider him an

established contact?
A No manner.

Q Do they have any -~ do they periodically seek to

collect information from Mr. Sturgis?
A I can't speak to that but the records that we have

don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact

somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file
hey would have to coordinate with the Latin

american Division before they did anything since we do hold

the file.

Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?

A . A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any
relating to an individual appearing in the press

as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.

Q Personnel or personality file?
A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.

9 Do you know whether or not there is any connection

or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?

A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know

each other. They have to know each other from their days

in Cuba.
8)

pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?

recall, we employed Martinez around 1961,

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A No. AS

32204971 Page 17

Do vou know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-


SECREL | | 1

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I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a

a

boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations

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and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run,
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sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in

qn

any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever

é i do it on any of cur boats, planes, or -~ anything that beloncs
? to the Agency.
8 9 When Martinez would run such an operation or captain
if . ‘
9 a boat on such an operation, would ne be charged with putting
7 together his own crew?
1 | A No. de had an assigned crew and every boat had a
z 4 | Case Officer operating either out of the -- probably out of’
= i ; H
: ie H the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have
= 4 ; i
2 Le | some people in the -Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receive
3 his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. i>
26 Q Sa it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis |
if along on any of these operations? ; |
| A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was. |
z 29 trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer.
= i
: 20 | Q . And that would be.for a period of time between
i ek | Shackley and Henze? |
z | i
: 22 A Yes. | |
: 25 Q 1964 to 1966? |
: 24 | A Something like that.

bi bass ¢

Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the
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HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 18

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2 4y activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
4 f !
a 2 4 . : : i
é i your -- and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during |
J
Z 3:
r | your 9-year tenure with those groups.
pd | |
7 a A Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board i
- > intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign
positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary
78
i activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about |!
Bs a oe ae un
, the breadth of the thing.
|
3 , ,
° Q. Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?
ae 4 .
~s A Right.
jaf . oe :
te re) Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary
au i
z “'; operations. Were these operations run out of southern
< i ,
: iz! _ :
3 ~““ “Florida? :
5
2 “6 A Right.
aaa Q And in particular out of the Miami Station? i
|
16 A Yes.
17 Q Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of
i
1é the country that participated in these activities? |
. i
z L9 A Not to my knowledge. _
3 20 |, Q Were there any southern harbors other than Miami
2 el that were used in these activities? ;
3 Sg !
n “ » a . !
z Re A Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As |.
3 ° . |
3 23 | I.said, we did have a Key West base.
3 i . |
3 24: ) Were there any other bases in that area of the |
3 i
> 25) country that were utilized in these operations?
H “ q

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z 4 A Well, not that I would call a base. We did have
2 5!
2 ~ i raining facilities for the UDT teams.
z 3 | ,
z i Q What is a UDT team?
: 4
- * A Underwater demolition.
;
° OQ where were those bases located? :
6 1
~ A I frankly don't know. They were down along the Keys, |
? ; along that long peninsula going down there. There were a |
;
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; 2
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is . j
77 if oe _ . . toe ge i
++ 4 participating in these activities?
4 i
12 | i
z am A Not ta my knowledge. |
Pa HI :
2 iH !
< 13 | Q Where were these people trained?
re i
z id A What'do you mean? |
4 ; H
a . |
=5 |i 9 Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.
i !
26 |: OR We trained them at these places we had in the Keys. |
1?" Now, there also ~- some of them were brought up here and trained
. : {
i
1848 at.the Domestic Training Station. i
H
~ 19: 2 Where is that located?
;
: 20 ii A That is down in Virginie.
i 21 | 2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these |
z iH . : '
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- H H
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< 23 i A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to
j | os _ |
Z 24 understand at this time that we hac a great many contract
= 25 employees, independent contractors and this type of thing.
f , ;
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number of sites. I really can’t

recall them.

Were there any other sites within the United States |;

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~
Bf “| Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was
3 ,
= 2, a, |
a 4 conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another |
wi . . -
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” a Q DDO?
; . ;
. A DDO.
é€ tage . ; , .
Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,
7 - lacus ae ;
training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special
< Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special ;
7. Operations. Group, is that correct?
ty A Nell, supervised, ves, and I would think that probabily
te some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic |
. '
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z . i
2 is would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would
3 16 probably staff the training racility with their people who have
25 the expertise in paramilitary operations.
i
. 4
16 e) Now, were the people that were being trained at
an these facilities basically Cuban refugees? j
Ls A Yes. |
i
= ig 9) And at the outset I take it not many of those people
=
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S |
3 21 A No.
E 7 |
3 2° ae) Or had become American citizens. i.
1 7 —_ 2 t
23 A I would assume a creat many have.
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: ~ 4 9 At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi ty
a j in Miami? Do you have any idea?
2 = 4 i
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: t A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is |

probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards a

on

military people.

Oa

3 You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert

“2

action. How do you distinguish between those two categories

8 ; of activities?
9 q A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The |
ie ; varamilitary could fall into covert action but in those days !
i
it ; we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was
5 ;
z is ; media placement. We had a number of operations at ~-- legai-
£ i
é 1s type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel |
; Ls seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he-had a |
+5 Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in !
HI ,
16 : the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings |
iv : that were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned |
ié : in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them | |
3 L9 because he obviously didn't have clear titie to them. He was |
: 20 ~= they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was |
i 2h | forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada. :
E i ne
3 22 We ran legal operations, got the owners and had them |
: 23 4 hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing. |
: 24 i He seized these race horses. de tried to peddle them
- '

|

| in Europe and up in Canada. Ne ran opposition against that
! .

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& il Q These were what you considered to be covert operationg6?
3 ‘ : . . f
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3 . !
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Q Now, this is wnat you were referring to, legal- !
~ type operations?
~ A Yes,
Po
: 9 You used legal process to harass Castro.
8. .
A Yes.
° 7 Q What other types of harassment activities did you
w :
a run that would fall under this covert action category?
ae : |
to aA Well --
! |
7
2 aad Q Would economic warfare be --
: 134 .
; aa A That was sort of something separate unto itself.
3 + This was -- the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a i.
-* decision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockade.
H
25 3 What special group is that? :
7 |
aad A Tt is now called the Forty Committee. :
ié 9 Is that 302 Committee? |
: I
a 29 A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all,
3 i
z |
L 20; it was called the Special Group, Ci, Counterinsurgency. Then |
= :
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3 ol _
3 221 there and now it is the Porty Committee.
: in :
= ao 2 All right. We will return to that a little bit
F oa - ;
z 24. later, but what other types of harassment were you running
= ‘ |
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activities,

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This is what I was trying to think of.

oa

Q -~ that would be considered covert action?
A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement,

media placement. It has been so long ago I really don't

remember. I know we had a number of things going against him.
We used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some

extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,
particularly when they were countries that we had treaties
with, NATO countries, Canada, this type of thing.

9 Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said
you used moral suasion. what kind’ of activities are you
referring to?

A. Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we
were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal
the legal -- well, I don't know how you would
shrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control

reguiations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the

|
|
i

Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of}
H

Commerce, the Export Control people.

I. guess as vou are aware, Cuban industry was totally

U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of

|
|

thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying

to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where

we would find this out through all-source intelligence, we

or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the

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Z and the other things that Castro might need. We had the
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companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.
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8 a |
any spare parts to'the Cubans. This was a fairly concentratea |
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effort to really isolate them.
ic. . 2 : . .
Q All right. And that is what you were referring to i
ll -
as moral suasion?
12
: a A Yes.
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a 12
: “e ) Anything else in that category?
Z TA . . i
° ~* A Not really. None that I can think of.
+8 Q Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign
. 1
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companies?
1 . =: :
1% A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,

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the market.

Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic

Q

A Yes.

9 -- domestic market?

A No. It would be re-sold abroad. ,
: :

Q In all cases?

A The cases that I was associated with, it was all

sold abroad.

3 What kind of purchases were made?

A Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased

some Bright Stock in Antwerp.

2 What?

A Bright Stock. :
2 What is that? |
A Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of |

her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical

commodity. Bright Stock can be -- oh, it is almost like tar,

melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this

type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So

we had an oii firm

which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually

solid in Africa.
“Do you know of any sales of such materials that

Resales, I should say.

purchase this Bright Stock from a dealer for

a es

were made within the United States?

No.

we

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HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 26

aa tea as EES 8 |
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z F Q In addition to preemptive buying were there anv
a 2: |
a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of
3 «Hl
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2 | supply to Cuba?
& 400
a A Well, we did provide through third country agents
5 ; ; i
who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce
7 Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had :
oa
" replacement parts manufactured that were substandard. !
B _ ; , . |
" 9 And you had them sold through foreign companies?
2 : . j
“os A Well, we had our agents-get the Cuban orders all

over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of ‘fact,

“- "the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Deg.
‘| ; ,
ie i head ;
3 ome and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this. |
Fy _. it
: a 2 Mr. Dillon? :
< ta, ;
° ee A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. '
: i
“4 Q But -- ‘
rs ;
‘
B A But vou must remember that these American -- i
~t Q Mr. Connors? j
a A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,
3 ~9 well, their places were nationalized and they were only too |
3 ‘
x “ !
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¥ =“ i happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona -
S$ or py EO,
a «i fide business. These things were transshipped through two
= ae i or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. i
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A az ij ;
3 Os 2) You referred to some extra-legal activities.
a oa ll
2 ll A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what
= i
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our activities but I just can’t think -- I remember this was

on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the

extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know

it was one of the parts of the program.

Q This was illegal activities? Is that what you are

referring to?
A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they
weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps. they were in a

gray area some place.

Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international

law, the laws of the United States?

A- I would have to go back and review the thing. I

really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.

Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files? :
i

A I would think probably. down in. the Records Center some

. a !

place. :
Q Would it be possible to obtain that material some

time Guring the lunch hour?

A No. It is forty miles away.

Q Well, is there some place in the building where

you could refresh your. memory?

A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped.

This is talking ll years ago, 12 years ago. All that material

has been retired.

What category of activity would we be talking about
Ct 7 .

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:32204971 Page 26

SECKE! 35
°
3
z when we refer to extra-legal activities? .
g 2
a A This is what I was trying to think of and I can’t
i z
g think of what it was. i know extra-legal activities was one
9 .
- 7 parts of the program that we were involved in.
. I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might!
B :
tell me what that is. ;
e
Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to i
g , |
come back to that.
" A All right.
an s) Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal |
*~ activities that were run against Castro? |
18 ; ° '
3 7 A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable ‘are
2 ;
a
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: “* probably retired ana I was running the program. So I ran
bod . |
3 += the economic program.
|
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Well, these are activities that were run in connection

ion)

Q

[o>)

with the economic program?

~ A Yes.

+50 Q We talked about media placement during this nine-

ws

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media placement?

stations?

:
3 27 ; ;
2 we A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our
4 - i
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* naed propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers |.
5 .- |
3 ew and magazines throughout the world.
3 a,
3 ae Q WYould this also include broadcasts over radio |
- q
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A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.
Qo Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines

published within the United States?

A Not to my knowledge, no.
Q These were essentially foreign publications?
A Yes.

Q Were any cof them published in the Cuban community —

in Miami?
A No. The intent was to get world opinion against |

Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.

Q “What about the. radio broadcasts? How were those
handled?
A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?

9 Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations
were involved. Was there more than one radio station?

We only had the one radio station but we did

contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.

9 For broadcasts to what areas?
A For broadcasts to Havana.
9 And the station in New York, was that received also

-~-~ was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United

States?

A I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a
particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it

on short-wave or what they did.
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Q But the intention was to reach Cuba.
A Reach Cuba.
Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to

as Swan. Were there others?
A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,

Miami.

I think, and one down in Kev West that they used.

Q Where was Radio Swan located?

A On Swan Island.

Q Where is Swan Island?

A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.
Q As far as you can recall, were there any other

radio stations in the United States that were utilized to

broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
I recall right now..

Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups

affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American

public to support those’ propaganda activities?

A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of

thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.
Q Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were

run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?

A Oh, yes.

Q Was anything of that nature done in connection with

ro
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SECKEI | 30

g i i Cuban propaganda?
: e A Not to my Knowledge.
: ° Q And that would include both the publications and the |
: 4° radio? |
7
5 aA Right. |
Ss Q ‘Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of |
7 4 moments. Could you describe for me briefly the type of |
|
8 ‘economic activities that were conducted against Castro? |
A | Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the |

regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We

worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in

the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, I

: 13 guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped from
: — about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like
16 i that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -- Fidel kept 7
| i
16 | saying that he had such a roor crop and this type of thing and
7 we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop because
18 some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihg
!
a 19 this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,
; 20. this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was
i 22 | lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any |
E 22 | place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he
‘ 93 | could. |
2 il ;
; 24 | So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in
= iI
= 26 | New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a
i | | !
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HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 32

SEUKE! 31

“| real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.

It was this type of thing that obvicusly he was

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trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any

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money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't
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want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of

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activities.

7 . . ;
Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S.

companies enlisted in that effort? ;

a |

A Oh, yes.

7 2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and

““ businessmen?

fe!
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lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the

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lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this

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~! type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it!
+é was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.

i? QO What kind'of assistance did vou seek or obtain from

- 2a0us

ea 7 ‘
<O . these businessmen?

ay)
ja

A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you

know, the market conditions were, why the price was rising, if

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we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would
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‘i Q They were used as consultants,basically.

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WY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 33 --

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7 A They were used as consultants, basically, yes.

fhe)

a) We have spoken about the investment American business

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had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American

Piro: (sens OO2} 6449-00

organized crime --

tn

A NO.
~ 9 -- had considerable investment in Cuba?

No., Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in

é - . oo ahs .
Cuba. IT mean, all the casinos and this type of thing. |
‘9 . :
9 The casinos were run --

“ A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force !
i coos _ ; |
“7 during the war, I used to fly into Havana on weekends and this |
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2 te Q I understand that. It was fairly well known.
: | |
; -= A It was a criminal element. i
=< 9 The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana. |
16 |
“ A Right. ;
Sieg _ . ; ‘ys
-! Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist |
+¢ the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner
. . . : |
3 ig whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime?
3 !
: £0 A No.
2 al Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?
3 22 BY Oh, yes.
A a : i
3 £0 Q When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?
: i
v1 . t

3 24 A Well, I guess it was -~ it seems to me it was either
8 ; ;

* £6 Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number

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of years.ago.

9
3 7 |
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2 i Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's
a ,
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5 ‘
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: A Yes, as I recall. |
= |
i Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana?
; i
6 4 : soa :
A No. I have heard that name but I don't know where... .
74 7
F Q In connection with -- i
8 H . ; . . :
a A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
i |
G4 : ae . . '
“4 9) In connection with the casinos or -- |
it : j
a f
if A No.
ici |
aed Q ~~ gambling interests in Cuba?
2 |
Le | A No.
x 4
2 a2 . :
: tet 9 You know of. no instance in which organized crime :
Z a. :
s “> #igures were used as consultants by the Agency?
oH A Only what I read in the paper. f had no knowledge
254 of that whatsoever.
a 2 Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures |
. |
ifs of that type -- . |
: : {
bal 12 £ A NO.
2 . ~
$ ; .
J 20 5 Q -- who were interested in getting back into cuba? i
Co . . :
Z i . |
2 “ A No.
3 | |
2 22 || a) We were talking about economic warfare. We have
ul j
w - : + : - ‘
3 ge ‘| talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other
2 a i
3 ‘
3 24 types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's
:
* 25 Cuba?
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, |
. |
i - ; A Well, we used all-source information to find out what
3 2 j his commercial dealings were. When we would see -~ well, for |
3 ‘
: i instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a source owned |
3 :
a 6 by the General Services Administration, finally got back into.
production and nickel, of course, and still is -~ was in short
c supply. We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was
? buving almost; the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this |
& i French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to |
9 the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control ;
10 people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |
AL le Nickel exports coming into -the United States? So they lookeld
i Le ; into the thing and indeed they did. |
g : i
‘ ie: Q ° Who owned the mine?
: ie A ‘The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it

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i i
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Ed y steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply

i
28 il + Treasury simply said vou can't import any more into this

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é i
: t | country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter
3 . | of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in
: ° New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it
é j ;
* 4 / around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel - |
° found other sources and export privileges to the United States |
6 , |
| were restored.
F
? ! You know, it is -~ you just -- any time you raise
ij ;
8 ! or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that
9 | simple. |
I .
10 | Q Were there any other instances that you can recall
di | of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of
2 12 | American business firms?
2
: is A I know we were in touch with a great many American
cs i .
: 14 | business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could.
25 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
16 | . (Discussion off the record.)
17 . BY MR. MANFREDI:
18 | 9 When we broke for a moment we were discussing other
3 i9 | ainstances where the Agency has enlisted the support of Amer ican)
‘ 20 | business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of
3 21 | any other such instances? |
i 22 | A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having.an awful time
u
5 23 | with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats... were
: 24 | powered: with) Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg
= (25 , people and told them ~~ asked them to cooperate with us, which

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they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's
representatives around the world if they got any orders from
the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.
We did the same thing with --

Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg
compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?

A No.

Q Were they compensated for the loss of business
involved in that activity?

A No. No.

Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from
other companies.

A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.

Q pid any American companies refuse to cooperate in
that manner?

A No. Not a one.

|

- 9 Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any

companies?

A No. No.

Q Were there any sanctions. that could have been brought

to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with
Cuba?
A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.

Cuba, They couldn't get export licenses from this country

anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the

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8
: | Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause
= | ;
2 * | in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --~-
: ° | foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with
6 :
° ai the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated country.
° And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried
6 | to twist their arm. i
7 | Q Other than insuring that these companies refused
e to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were
9 legally constrained from doing, what other types of support aid
|
10 | you receive from American business? |
. |
12 A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would |
2 le receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, ehey
g :
; 1 received it from Cuba asking for.publications and this type |
t
: 14 | of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing
15 to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in -
16 some instances they might call me and I would just give them
i” : a Post Office box to send the correspondence to.
ie Q Any other types of support solicited or received by
3 ig | the Agency from American business?
: 20 © A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one
: al firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know
: 22 how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of
ui
3 25 fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,
z 24 that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the
; 25 | government wasn’t really pushing Cuba the way it should, but

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i=}
8.
: ' outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera~
a Q
a , tion. There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.
3 - i .
2 - 4
2 ~ Q Did you identify yourself as CIA --
z 4
A Yes.
) ; . ; ;
Q -- in dealings with these companies?
6 .
A Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even
7
the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all.
8 i; ; . _
i Q Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started
9 ; but didn't really discuss that in any depth.
io ! ; . a
j What kind of paramilitary operations were run
|
11 | . :
» against Cuba by the CIA?
i
, 12 i tue .
5 i A Maritime operations.
< Hy
7 13 | ; ,
a i Q Is that the extent of it?
fo! |
> a A That is the extent of it.
t
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a Q Were there any aerial operations?
i
+6 A Not to my knowledge.
~Q Leaflet drops?
A No.
2 19 | Q Bombing?
g tt
& i
g 20 | A No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as
Al
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5 an I am concerned that is the only aerial activity.
8 an Q That was run by another directorate, wasn't it?
a Hl .
wv . ij
ry £5 | A Yes.
g i;
g 24 Q Aerial photography, and so forth.
g |
* 25 A Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to
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a 2 4
a | Q And those were run out of the United States?
é 3 |
2 A Oh, yes.
8
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Q . Can you think of anything, any other type of para-
5 oo ae .
military activity other than maritime operations.
6
A No. I really can't, no. i
|
7 3 , .
4 Q Am I correct that those operations were manned
i
8 ;
1 by CIA contract employees?
9 ' A Right. |
10 | , .
~ | QO WhiGh would include Cuban refugees. }
i |
14
11 A Right.
i
3 a Q. And some:CIA officers?
PN ij }
i
12 A Right.
Q |
3 43 ; oo,
3 14 4 Q Any other branches of the services, Armed Services,
4 : . |
15 | . : .
a involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs.
16 | A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to remembdr
Wy = that probably down at our Domestic Training Station we
16 ; probably have people on-detail from other -- from the military
HI
3 19 ! branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think
° '
8
g 20 i that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also
¢ |
3 el | had people detailed into the Agency.
= ke | Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime
rr
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a i
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$ 26 |
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A I would think. probably the major portion of it was
conducted within the United States.

Q ‘The Keys would be considered within the United
States.

A Oh, yes.

Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted
outside the United States?

A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not

to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall

but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done
domestically.
Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within

this category of maritime operations?

A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating
agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage
raids. That is about the extent of it.

- Q Now, when did. these.operations commence? Was it
shortly after the Bay of. Bigs?

A I would -- I think these operations were’ probably

at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,

1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December

1968, something like that.

Q Why was the program terminated?
A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn‘t provid-
ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,

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it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
getting wrapped up. We were -- we just felt that the return
wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.

Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up.

A Yes.
| Q ° What do you mean by that?
t :

rl
| A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify

him and capture him.

Q These various types of paramilitary operations that

were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the

ete.

Forty Committee?

the Porty Committee.

Q In advance?
A In advance.
Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for

|

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.
| A Every operation received a specific approval from
|

|

|

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initiating such an operation?

A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.

or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache.

Q You are referring to a cache of arms.
A A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,
whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have

|
| one of these operations and the request would go from here
| over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty

Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very

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frequently ~- they would either approve the operation or say

no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because

the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper
phase for communications and this type of thing. And these
things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of

Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were

exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military
agency that had’ any “involvement whatsoever;,..and the entire
thing was coordinated.

Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations

that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?

A No.

Q What kind of volume of operations are we talking
about?

A -You are not talking about a very big volume of

operations because of the planning that had to go into these
things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing
they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.

Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having

run 300 operations.

A I have seen that.
Q Is that inaccurate?
A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He

may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-~

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tions. obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one
of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother
ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in-to
see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore
tefore you go. So he may have considered that all these train-
ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-
pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.

Q Now, from what specific locations were these

operations launched?

A They were mostly launched from the«Keys.

‘Q Any other locations?

A Not to my knowledge.

Q Now, would you describe. for me the kind of hit and

run sabotage operations that were conducted?
A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against
the Texaco refinery.
_Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?
A What used to be the Texaco refinery.
MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
{Discussion off the record.)
THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.
We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this

type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It

was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was

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a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as

much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out

because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type

of operation that we did.

As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn

some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we

did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and

exfiltrations.
Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q Was it impractical to use the base there for --
A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that

I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him

back. He wouldn't walk. -

{

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out

| ofthe Kéys other than what you have just described?
A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage

kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained

sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down

crank cases. Things of this nature.

One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage

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$
: 1 all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our
0 !
: 2 | own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We
: ° contracted with an American firm for that. And.we shipped
8 4
° 4 ; it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.
8 The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the
6 automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking
? down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have
8 ; everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive
9 equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because
16 : Castro didn’t hve the money to buy it and they weren't going ta
| | ;
it | extend the credit. |
2 le The railroad system was in total disaster. The © |
< a
: 1s | Soviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus
& J ; :
5 14 : the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment
5 because they were used to good American equipment. And these
16 were principal targets that we were trying to get to. -
1? . Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of
18 : any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run
3 19 from a base in the United States?
: 20. A No.
3 21 i Q I know there has been some paramilitary training
g
z *2£ | in the United States.
a i
j 25 A .Oh, yes.
: 24 | Q In connection with other operations.
5 25 | A Oh, sure.

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SECRET 46

Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that

were actually run out of the United States?

A No.

Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique
situation.

A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.

Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in

Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as

the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.

A That is right.
Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
A .Well, we had.-- honestly, everything from a canoe

up. to three to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers,
rubber boats. We had a number of craft in, say, .the 27 to

45 foot. length. And they looked Like real tubs. They were
painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but
they had’ the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any-
thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under-
water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy.

Q Did these craft operate under non-official cover

in the Miami area?

A Yes.

Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one
firm?

A No. Variety.

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|
$ i Q Fishing companies?
: ° | A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine
< ° supply. In all, I think during the period that the station
2 it
“ * ( and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non-
7 official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.
6 Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any .-|
, legitimate commercial activities?
& A Not to my knowledge, no.
9 - Q None of them -- were any of them in competition with |
7 firms in that area?
am A These are probably what we would call devised
3 12 | facilities. They were probably registered with the State of
< 13 | Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one
& il
: a was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of |
15 | existence and started up a new one. |
16 | Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running
v7! .
~ these operations?
18 A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as |
3 19 I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
S
: m0 | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
3 el | under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.
: ze | Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He
Z 25 i came back -- he might come back once a month,.or something
: 4 | like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks
3 25 if he got some time off.

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g
: 1 Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were
@ | actually stationed full-time in the Keys.
$ ° | A Oh, yes. Oh, sure.
S i
* & | Q Were there any operations run out of the United
° | States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
6 | sugar or anything of that sort?
F
? | A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the|
8 | Puerto Rican thing?
9 A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind. |
i ;
10 | Would you describe that for me?
ii}. A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of |
2 1é | opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar
<
: 13 |. to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to
t
: 14 | it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or
i :
16 | something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.
16 | In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
17 | drydock or wherever it was, they..had. ta remove the sugar and
18 | put it in the. warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came
3 19 | up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -~- there was
: 20 | a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to
3 et put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
3 Re acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the
a |
: 20 | individual, and some of this was done. And then when it
: 24 leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar
3 25) firm buy it back from the Soviets. photocopy from
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8 7 |
: . Q Bought it back from the Soviets?
8 | A Yes.
3 .
: “ MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
é 4 (Discussion off the record.)
° ! MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record.
é | BY MR. MANFREDI: |
7 Q Are there any other operations in which crops were
8 | -- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?
9 A No. No.
16 | Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? |
sae | A In Cuban products?
2 ie Q Yes. i
<
: +5 A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in
: i4 those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.)
25 The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total, |
16 chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have
i” anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.
16 There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around
9 19 with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of
j 20 experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.
3 ai I forget -~ several other European and American companies that
: 22 | had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—
wl i
: 23 | ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.
; 24 Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to
3 25 Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it
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on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too

high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in

Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin

and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type

of thing.

So he was helping us all along the line and

this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this

type of. thing.

But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we

didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade

and cut off his sources of supply.

Q

A

Q

A

Q

When was the Miami Station established?
As a station?

Yes.

I think in September 1961.

And that was several years before you became involved

in Cuban matters?

WA

Q

Yes.

Do you know of any other facilities of that nature

within the United States, Agency facilities?

A

Q

A

Q

A

You mean, targeted against the opposition?
Yes.
A station as such?

Yes.

No. You have some communications facilities that

you really call stations because here again, they are not

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directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of

overseas communications.

Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and

Office of Security officers, and so forth.

A Right.

Q But I am talking about actual stations.

A Operating stations, no.

Q This is the only such station in the United States

a

as far as you know, is that correct?

A Right.

Q And was this station established to deal primarily

with Cuban activities?

A Yes.

Q Cuban-reiated matters? ; |
A With Cuba, period.

Q Did it have, when it was established, any other

responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?

A Not to my knowledge.
Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?
A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other

countries in the Hemisphere.

Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
activities, what was the size or the number of personnel

attached to that Station?

A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a

couple ; SEC R er . Photocopy from

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:32204971 Page 53

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|
3 i couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
: 2 Agency, plus I don't ‘know how many contract employees,
: ° | independent contractors, probably another 200 minimum. It was
3
° * ; obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its
i
6 : height it had over 500 people in it.
6 | Q Full-time Agency people?
7 | A No, no,
e 9 Combination of contract and --
9 | A And full-time, yes. A regular employee we calli a start
| !
10 | employee. |
it | Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract
: 12 people? |
1s A Yes. |
Q 1
3 14 | Q Even though he was located down in the Keys? |
i
is A Oh, yes. 7
16 Q And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
i? i Miami? Physical facilities.
18 A Well, they were located on the south campus of the
3 ig University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at
: 20. the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained
: a1 | unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn
: ze well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the
Fi
: Ro Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.
: 24 Q Official cover?
: 25 | A No. Non-official. ‘ photocopy from
| d Ford Library

| . : Geral
|

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SEVREI | 53

Q Non-official cover. What was the cover?
A It was a commercial cover. It was called -- the first}
one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a

President and Vice President, normal corporate setup.

Q Engaging in any business? |
A No. i
Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,

how long could a non-official cover last?
A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research
activities. Funded -- it:is a giant mechanism when you put i

one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,

QO Yes, I understand. |
i
A So it was a research activity and’ the only people that
ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You
know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept
any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And, out of.

this oney thing, of course, then we were running these innumera-

ble-other™ covers with different activities. The guard
force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, Sami lat
to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think
that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the.

Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other

Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.

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Q And this particular Station, then, was under the

supervision of the group we have been discussing?
A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.

Q When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume

responsibilities for the Miami Station?

A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the
Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western

Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division. |

Q Is there presently a Miami Station?

A Oh, yes.

Q And how large is it at the present time?

A Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the
Cuban Operations, I don't know how large it is at the present
time because we are in one of these periods. where: we -are

reassigning people, .5ut I think by the end of this fiscal year

therevare going to be between 11 and 14 people.

Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions
were being performed by the Miami Station?

A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. [I
think I have lined them out at:one time <---collection of

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this

type of thing. Covert action.

Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in

the deposition?

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A Yes.
. Gerald Ford Library

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3 1 |
z | Q Which of these activities, if any of them were
a 2
& | actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?
& 3 i
2 i A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably
Z a |:
| counterintelligence. |
5 |
| Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence |
6 |
| activities in the Miami area? |
7 | |
i A Yes, sir.
8 | a
| Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- _
| |
9 | intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting |
10 | in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? |
Li -
it | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I
3 12 | recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent tha
| |
. 16 | came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in witha |
< 14 | |
3 number of other people. When she hit the -~ they had a recep-
15 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.
16 | The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there. and.
i” we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration
18 | and\. Naturalization Service cover. When the EW people did the
Q 19 | preliminary interrogation of these people they had ta fill
g 20 | out forms, where. were you born, this type of thing, biographic4
3 el type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our peopte who would,
3 | |
3 RE look at the forms and based on previous experience or what i
wl 1 {
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3 £5 | they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they |
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5 - |
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| |
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It was in this manner that this gal came to our
knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined
that obviously she was receiving messages and she was |
sending messages. So along with the Bureau we put a surveillance
on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and |

H
indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock |
or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found
it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that

was cen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved

in.

Q Were there many activities: of that type?

A Not really. You have got to remember that the |
, f

Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large
q

squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-

thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of
hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-
tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from --'

in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting
to Case Officers and they would report on things in the
community, of people they thought were suspect and this type |
of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved

in CI activity.

Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI

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activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-
whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability

to properly staff the thing?

A Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot

of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section

of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the PBI overseas is

known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy
the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers
from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a

relationship there that had gone over a period of years

between the Agency and the Bureau.

MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of-

the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this

same day.)

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* . SECRET | 58

AFTERNOON SESSION
Thereupon,

WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA
Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary
Public, was examined and testified as follows:

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)

BY MR. MANFREDI?:

0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the

Miami Station . Bo I understand that the Miami Station was the

largest CIA station in the world?

AL The largest CIA station in the.world.

0, At its height?
A Nothing comes anyplace close to it. |
a) I wonder if vou could describe briefly for the record

what the AMGirs were,

A Well, the AHOTS were Cuban a Cuban intelligence
organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro
ever be overthrown, these neonle would be the nucleus to go into
Cuba and form a new Ministrv of the Interior.

0. Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
for Security Agency?

A Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of

Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.

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| 0. And these people were Cuban exiles?

| A. Cuhan exiles.

0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS?

i A Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures

| but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to --

i a. Go ahead.

| A, Probably closer to 159, something like that.

/ 0 Now, would that 159 persons be included within the
three to 5909 who made up the Miami Station?

A No.
0. That was over and above the personnel of the Miami
Station?
| A Right.
| 0 These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?
A. Right. WEI11, let me -- these people really were --

they were being subsidized by the Agency. They were employed

i bys tivo? cover:ycompanies, the largest of which was called.Latin

American’ Social. and Economic Résearch. Then we had another

smaller group that did the interrogating and they were under
‘another’cover, commercial cover, -- I just don't recall what it
was. But these peop.e ostensibly were employees of these whollv

owned -proprietaries of the Agency. They were duly constituted,

incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing.

0 The salaries of these people, although paid indirectly

were paid by the CIA?
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up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?

A Right.

: AL That is right.

0. And was training provided them bv the Agency?

iH

| 0 Oh, ves. H
A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made
‘

‘i ‘a When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring to
ij . .

i . , |
3 debriefings?

Ho

i A. I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles

or perhaps exiles that had heen in the country whom during theiy
|

time here had acquired new information.
ra How were those ~- how and where were those debriefings
‘i . |
| conducted? |
A Well, normally the debriefings were conducted at Opa |
Loca.
0. That is the Air Base?

A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the |

reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in.

: Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had
' a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.
small rooms Like this where vou could bring people in, sit them
down, under controlled conditions,and debrief them without any
i interference and this type of thing.

0. For how long a neriod did these debriefings go on?

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* a Ee Ge FRESE

3 1 i A. You mean in terms of vears?
: 2 0. Yes.
Z 5 | A. Well, I would think that I would probably say from
E 4 | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --
5 ; we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out |
6 | and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut off
y about, I quess about 1970 or '71, in that timeframe -~
8 0. I see. - |
9 A -- that stopped the flow of the refuqees, so we just
1c terminated that part of the activity.
li 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came
; 12 in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any other
é i intelligence gathering functions -- |
Q
< 1é A No.
_ : 0. In the community? -.
16 A Well, I can't give vou a real ves or no-to that. I
1" would suppose that’ there is an outside possibility they could
1é have been used to debrief people within the: community, within
_ : the Cuban community, but we had’ in the organization -- all these
3 20 : people were Cuban with the exception of we had what we call an
G C
: as : On-Site Case Officer, who was a'fulltime: staff:-emplovee and he
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5 29 had a couple of assistants; including a secretarv.: These people
3 :
ul 23 were directly under his control.» Though the organization as it
E bs was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,
3 a3
5 35 but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Officer.
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7 SECKET 62

3 l OF course, if these people went out and did something on
; 2 i their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.
a
g 3 You can't -- you know what they are doing during their eight or
: 4 ten hours that they are going to work evervday but once they
5 leave, we don't know what they are up to.
“ : i
6 : 0, Did they have CIA credentials? |
7 A No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this
8 commercial cover. |
9 0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these |
lo people other than in their duties - in their debriefing
i
i | capacity, I should sav?
; _ A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a
i 13 | standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence |
é a | interest or a battle, you know, anything -- economic questions,
2 La ji
25 | morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -- when.
;
16 these people were cebriefed and the debriefer wrote up the |
17 report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over. to the Station.
Tr } If the debriefing report contained something of positive
19 | intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
0 |
2 20 | Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot
G ;
: 21 down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be
: 25 recontacted and asked specific. questions.
=
u 93 | 0. Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this
: 24 | smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area?
: 95 A This was their prime purpose.

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a How large was that particular group?
! A Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,|
I think there were about five debriefers with the support people
which would be secretaries, translators, strictly administrative’

types. I don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15

in that qroup, if there were that many.
‘ MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record,

0. Before we move on to further discussion of the AMOTS |

could. vou briefly describe for. me what role the CIA plays in

|
| resettling Cuban emigres?
|
{
t

| |

AL CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emigres.

q. What Agency is charged with that responsibility?

a]

| A Health, Education and Welfare.

9 Does CIA play any role in that process?

HI

i A. We may assist if we are. asked but the idea of the wholle

it ~ j

| airlift was having relatives here. for somebody to claim you when
you came in so vou wouldn't become a ward of the State of the

Government, and normally when these refugees came. in, thev were |
{
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processed through the Center and then thev had a place down on
Biscayne Boulevard thev called.Freedom House and this was, of
course, all run by HEW, and they -- if need be and they had to

stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and

care for them in Freedom House.

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et 4 |

3 1 Then as soon as they could, of course, they-would move men
g |
; 2 | to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the
é 3 | relatives were, this type of thing, and we had nothing to do
E 4 with that whatsoever.
i
5 0. Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the
ij
6 two droups, what was the name of that group again?
” A SASER, Latin American Social and Economic Research. |
8 : 0. We can call them LASER for short?
9 | . A. Really, they are both -- the only reason we separated |
fr
10 the two groups was for security because we had one group housed |
i
11 | over here and the smaller group was over here. Obviously we |
; le | couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so
i 13 | that is why wetook the smaller establishment to preserve some !
val cover. |
15 | Q Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged |
16 j in?
7 A WEL1, the larger group was engaged in the collection
18 | of intelligence. They compiled dossiers on the principals
. 19 | inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every
: 929 refugee that came throuch the reception center. They provided -+-
G
: 21 | they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a
: 99 | monthly newsletter based on the information thev collected.
3 i
! 23 | The information these people collected as opposed to the i
\ : 24 information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That |
3 ; |
: 95 came from -- all the information thev had came from human sources
5 |
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°. SEGRE E 65 |

t
5 ‘|| or overt publications. We subscribed -- well, the proprietary
$ lj
g | subscribed to a number, a great many newspapers, periodicals,
a i]
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a | Spanish language type things.
2 0 Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,
z af
j) weren't they?
5 | ;
A. I don't know if you could call it clandestine. What
6 i. ,
| did you have in mind?
7 | |
0. Well, would thev run agents in the community? |
8
| A. Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban
|
9 | ;
' communityv, ves.
10 ; . . . |
| 0. And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?
71 .
* | A. WELL, I call that human resources.
, le’ : :
z i 0. All right. Where are these files now?
2 x
; 1s | A. They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of
< 14 i - |
3 “| them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We
25 | went down there several years ago just leoking through the files
16 | to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great
i
17 . . . . :
1? | information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a
Ls gal who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won
3 wa swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those
¢ oa files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't
= “ll have any pertinancy at all.
3 Re | 0. How. are the files organized? You indicated before thak
“a
ra £5 lenere is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?
g 24 | A Right.
= 26 | 0. Are there soft cover files as well?
| °
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A Yes.
0. For each Cuban refugee?
AL No. Not for each Cuban refugee. I think, as I

recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,
we had I guess the manilla files, probably went into the tens.
of thousands, I would think.

0. Now, is there any way to determine from those files

which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens?

A No way.

0 Has there been anv effort to make such a determina- !
tion?

A. We made an effort at one time but this -- you can

become nationalized out in California and your record of
nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for

two years. That is how far thev are behind.

0, Sot take it --

A, So there is no central index vou can go to. I mean,
there is a central index vou can qo to but it.is.not current.

0. I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the
CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langlev on Cubans who
are now American citizens?

A Absolutely true.

0, Now, are any of those files likely to contain

derogatory information about the individuals. involved?

A Well, no. One of the things these people do, of

_ - ee

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course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from
anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a
Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people
as possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask
that all the information on that individual be assembled so that
we could do a complete target study -~ habits, you know,
everything right down the line. In case of some of the more
important ones, of course, we had psychological studies prepared
where we had enough information. But this is one of the things |
these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on the
!

first.mate of the -- one of the Cuban ships, then thev would

start looking through the papers or anything else to come up

with anything they could on what the guy's current activities

are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.

Q. Well, the .AMOTS were going to be the intelligence
service of Cuba?

A. Right.

@ And they obviously were going to perform some function
in addition to recruitment of agents?

A. Right.

0 I take it they were trained in counterintelligence,
gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the
traditional skills, is that correct?

A That is about right.

0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for

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purposes other than recruitment?

A. Well --

0. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these
files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible
internal security problem?

A No. No. Thev didn't keep those types of files. We
would simply task them with through your sources what do you
have on so and so, They would not be told the reason why we

wanted the information on anvhbodyv.

0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several
million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
those files?

A Well, that is right. -
0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ask

you this. I trust thet there is the possibility that some of

these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga~

tory information?.
A. I would assume so.
0. And that so much of them may -= some of the subjects

of those files mav now be American citizens?

0 And finally I take it that no effort has been made to

study that particular situation?

i
|
A Right. |
}
A. WE11, we did make an effort to do it at one time. |

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|
o : }
8 1 |) You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,
3 j
= 2 whether thev are on an island or perhaps other places, their
3 H
a 3 | names turn up on mankfests and this type of thing. Well, these
2 4 | are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards
I!
i }
| .
5 | were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
|
6 | at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
| .
;
7 what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-
8 | tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had |
9 | become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So <=
i |
10 | 0. Excuse me, off the record. i
!
li (Off the record discussion)
12 MR. MANFREDI: ‘Back on the record. |
5
x _ BY MR. MANFREDI: |
“ 4° |i |
a |
Z ia | 0. I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind
3 |
1s | where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are
“oO |
16 | presently here in Washington?
| .
19 | A The cards and what is left of the files.
18 Q. That is the soft cover files?
| A, Yes.
o 19
8
a 0. And <=
d 20
¢ 21 A TI assume they are either here or down at the
°
E | Records Center.
= ee |
4 9 | 0, And where is the computer svstem?
=< oO
5 - A You mean our machine system? We have --
3 4
3 0. The machine here that you tried to match up with the |
? 25
| — -~-
}
| SECRET Photocopy from |

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HF 50955 Docld:32204971 Page Ti

|

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Phone (Arex 202) $44-6000
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HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 72

“ a ie os BREE 70

information on the cards?

A Right down on the third floor.

0. That is not tke hydro system?

A Oh, no, no.

0 This is a separate -~

A. This is a complete -- onlv the Latin American Division

uses this particular system,
0. What kind of records -- «trike that.

The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev?

A, No.

n T thought they were going out in June.

A Well, okav. Thev are on the hooks until June.

Q, I see.

A But they have all been let qo. They were let go ~-

they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to

go find a job.

0. ‘Do they have any facilities, physical facilities, in

Miami at this time?

A no.

0 So there are no records in Miami?

A No. No. We brought all those records back here.

0. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities

in the Miami community?
AL No. No.

Q °« Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups?

SEC R ET ‘ Photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library


y as SECKE! ‘4

3 1 i A. Hot to my knowledge.
z HI
; 2 a) What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that
; 3 ! was not doing debriefings?
E 4 A, Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would
5 send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemi sphere
i
6 | to train some of the local services in those countries. Thev
it i
7 | served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in
B listening posts where we had audio -~ |
9 0. Foreign listening posts? |
10 | A Oh, ves, foreign, !
| 0. Any domestic listening posts?
; 12 | A No, no.
i | 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people?
Me! A I would assume -= this I cannot answer because I reall
15 don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but -
16 to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance
vy | conducted by them.
1a | “Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,
. ryt don't know where it could be.
8 co | 0. What intelligence gathering activities did thev
e
: 21 | conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
: 29 A One. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban
4 23 | communitv, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
: a4, | Castro groups and: this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
: ve and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government |
. - |
SECRET = gcronysrom |

HW 50955 DociId:32204971 Page 73

‘ ad Ee es RE 2

3 1 ‘ agencies in Miami plus’ the State government enforcement agencie
ri | . .
¢ ‘ .
- = 2 | up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -~ the
g = ‘| Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
2 4 | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and thev
5 ; Started to tighten up.
6 ‘ I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing
9 i alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when
8 there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these |
oO : militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked
io | we by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, |
a i |
sf !
1 ' this type of thing.
i
16 | 0. These people were arrested?
3 oan
a i A. Oh, ves,
a 12 ii j
a ; i
a ; 0. Prosecuted?
2 14
_ A Not reallv,
le 0. Anv of them American citizens?
ia
A Not to mv knowledge. .
1?
a This would be Alpha 66 tvpe groups?
1é
A I don't know whether this guy -- well, you know, they
19
j=]
8 are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don't
5 20. .
ao .
° i know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on
g el °
é |
g | so many charges and the was a Cuban exile that made it pig here. |
= 22 +
W ' He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever
< 23 ; ; .
5 ‘ served any time or not I don't know. ..I know he was convicted
3 24 © °
3 . but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. a7
+ 26 ji

| ‘Photocopy from
1 SECRET Gerald Ford Library

HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 7f4

fay

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

16:

li:

12 om

WARD & PAUL
tH
tn

19

22

S-E., Washingioa, D.C. 20003

23

24

410 First Street,

25

20.

21:

ii

i

|
|
|
{

4 SECRET rs

I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went

to jaul or not.

a Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS

engage in?

I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest

|
A Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence -- |

at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents |
0. Cubans were? |
A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well |
on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. and I don't

-- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to

identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.

|
|

Q Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau?
A With the Bureau, ves.
0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were

in a better position to do it?

A Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big
factor.

0. And this was conducted through the AMOTS?

A 06 CUYe@S.

0. How substantial was the counterintelligence operation

in’the community?

A. WELL, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I

[ Photocopy from _
SECRET ; Gerald Ford library

HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 75

7 wm te PRE 8

| |
8 1 | would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did
z |
5 2 come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the
H z | Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens
: A to it because, von know, vou just -=- unless vou personally know
5 the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as
i .
3 | well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do.
9 Q What other positive intelligence gathering activities
8 were they engaging in?
9 | A Well, as IT told vou, one part of them were engaged in|
ug | electronic intercept.
li | 0. - Where was that done?
; 12 |: A Down in Florda, down, in Homestead.
: a 0 This is Southeast of Homestead?
2 4
¢ 14 | A. Yes. | ; |
23 0. What ere they intercepting?
25 |
16 | A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the
on commo. for the infiltration.
1 ‘As we phased down the maritime activities, they were nade
; 1a | available to intercept Cuban. communications, | NSA‘ tasks’ them wit
g 20 the--frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications
G ;
: 21 | acts they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another
: 20 | important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,
z
4 23 | sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior
: aa | network thev covered too. put all electronic intercept coverage|,
: ze | 18 ofctate by NSA,
~ | . . . 7 . Photocopy from
an SECRET Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 76

~ SEGRE

|
3 i | Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin require
z
= 2 | Ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently
f=) Hl .
2 5 | because the common interests, -- we have a common interest in
2 |
z 4 | what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particular
BI
5 } Operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans
C | were doing, then we would task our people with that.
6 |
" i For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into
f | [
i . . '
8 ! Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then i
.
9 | there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was.
HT : I
il
'
ic | But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the 7
{4 7
iH j
i . ‘ . . |
4 ; boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when
*
12 i came. back on~the-air., And this is the type of thing. As.
4 !
3 i
A 13 } a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200 |
& oot Hy
Q i |
& ,_, | Cuban: troops.
3 Le 4 «
_ MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. .
15 |
I
- | (Off the record discussion)
6
. i MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
a
if .
i BY MR. MANFREDI:
1é 4 .
| 0. Were the Communications’ they: were intercepting”
” 19 h0
3 | exclusively foreign communications?
6 20 |
: | BR Exclusively foreign communications.
3 21 |
z : !
5 99 | 0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus
z & .
ul of which was the United States?
= 25 |
5 A No.
a 24
e 0. These were basically Cuban Government ‘communications?
> 25 .
. { !
i i

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! Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Doeld:32204971 Page 77?

Poone (A\e@a 202) 941-6000
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WARD & PAUL
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23

410 first Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003

24

25

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A

0

where,

A.

0.

A,

0

A.

‘

(Off the record discussion)

| BY MR. MANFREDI:

intercept

in

that. Po you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,

SEGRE! re
Right.
On the Island?
Right.
Or between the Island and other locations?
Yes.

But not between the Island. and the United States?

No. Let's go off the record on that.

we

|
| |
|

To vour knowledge were the *AMOTS engaging in the

of any communications, either that facility or else-
the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?)
No. |
Of other communications?

i
No.

Is that their only intercept facility?

(Nods affirmative)

Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike

| breakins or activities of thqt type other than what we have

discussed -=~

No sir.

~~ that were conducted by the AMOTS?

No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.

(Off the record discussion)

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HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 76

Poone {Ares 202) 544-6000

WARD & PAUL
food
in

21

22

S.E., Washinglon, OC. 20063

23

24

Adu First Sieget,

25

HW 50955 Docld

SECRET | -
BY MR. MANFREDI:

0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS

has been prepared by one of vour members.

A. That is right. |
0. What is his name? |

|
A I think it is Joaquin -~ I can't remember the last |

name, The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have
to get that for you. i
0. What is the title of the study? |
A. The title of the studv -~ it is part of the niseoricall
series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled “the
AMOT Organization.” |
Q What is the historical series of the Miami Station?
A “It was done when-Paul Hennessey was down there. What
we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is eet aside

what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things

the station might do or that might occur in the station personneh

wise, this type of thing, and then these things are written.

|
0 I see.
A At intervening periods of time.
0 When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?
A. XI think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68.
0. Tt is a fairlv lengthy document, isn't it?
A, Yes. I
Q And purports to be a fairly complete history of the |

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132204971 Page 79

SECKET “
c . ‘
3 | activities of the AMOTS?
3 L
= 2 A. It starts back in 1959 when we first started using
_—
i 3 | this gent..
2 4 Q First started using what? |
I ; .
5 A. First started using, I forget what his name was. |
H ;
6 | 0. I see. Is it a chronological studv of their activi-
i i
too, |
7% | ties? |
i
{
B | A . Yes. |
9 a And you have a copv of that in your custody?
|
|
| A Yes.
10 | es |
t
1 0." I would like to see that’ document. And we will try |
and obtain it through Hank Knochets office. |
2 12 | |
2 H
* 13 A, Okav,. {
3 iH i
5 14 | 0. Excuse me just for a minute.
3
vel (Off the record. discussion)
Lo . |
- MR. MANFREDI: On the record. |
rT | BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would -- let me ask vou |
1a il this. There have heen some allegations in the press that
.
. - . I
19 | prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents |
E | of the CIA.
3 20
: Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join
2 eL ;
5 | us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the
2 22
“ Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things
= 23 ,
5 2 | had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn |
= 4 il |
S | the examination over to him for whatever time he needs. |
< 25
; |
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' Geraid Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 60

~) “TS aE

MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, “%eorge.

944-0000

BY “MR. OLSEN:

202)
a

0, Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin-

Col

‘ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,

Phone (Area

A
ed .
by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your
contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
withing this countrv on benalt of the Agency? ;
7
A Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff |
8 |
which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and tha
g
Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in |
16 ae . . .
a varietv of intelligence collection and operations. |
Li
0 Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? |
4 le .
3 A. Desmond Fitzgerald. |
3 13 . _
3 9, And who was his immediate superior? i
< one H
° _ A. Dick Bissell. @ixcuse me. No. At that time it was |
““ Dick Helms. He was the DEP.
16 _
0 Neputy Director for Plans?
‘ A Deptuty Nirector for Plans. i
; :
is . . .
~ 0 What period of time are we talking about now?
- 19 . . og
2 A. We are talking in the neriod of 1963 to 1965.
: 20 |
as MR, MANFREDI: Off the record.
= a1 2 (Off the record discussion) ‘
3 22 | _ -
: : BY MR. OLSEN:
a 23 .
1 ee 0 So vou were not involved in this Special Activities

Group during the 1959 to ‘61 period?

PDO Cast Staves
tw
pa

A NO. .
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HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page #1

i
. . . Le . . !
= 4 Or the period leading un to the Bav of Pigs? i
& 7 i
: ~ |
+ aA. NO. |
”
ws mo: . |
‘ i a And vou were not involved in this program at all during
g 3 4 i
~ “f . ‘ = . . * {
2 i the same time that HE. Howard Hunt was involved in it?
A NO.
3 .
0 Do vou know what the cosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in:
é ;
connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the
7 .
- period of 1959 to 'S1?
5.
Ae To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert

, Action Staff dealing in propaganda.

0, Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in

this country?

3 : A No. Cuban people aproad.
2 13
2 0. And what-was his connection with the planning for the :
z . '
z is = ou: :
; Bay of Pigs? :
5 A. I would have to review the record to reallv answer
1é |
that. I don‘t know.
a . |
a Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami
““ area? |
+ 19 . ; - . :
3 ; A He commuted quite a bit. '
& £0, a .
a 0 Between Washington and -- :
i 21. Sys eee
= : A Washington and Miami. i
= ‘| i
3 22% = age ; ; _. ;
‘ A 0. “~~ and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early :
Gs ‘ . te
j Bo 1612
3
E a. Right.
2 25 | ;
So a Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his

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HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 62

ae ae GD 8h ae B

1, . published materials that he was the person who was in charge of

2 | organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which

02) 544-6000

2

|
3 i . , . . :
z 3 | would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall
< |
2 |
z 4 (| where that was?
5 3, That could be auite true.
6 0 Have vou reviewed, Mr, Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
% files relating in anv wav +o the Cuban operations and particu-
3 ‘ larly with reference to whether they reflect anv contacts
5 between the Aqency and Frank Sturgis?
ae A. Yes. .
ya 0. Or Frank Fiorini?
aa! A There is no relationship.
a _ 0 Ts it vour testimony that the records and files of
z - the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
2 AS .
,2.. nature with Frank Sturgis?
ls A. To mv knowlecgde that is true.
_ Q I take it from that that vou are emphatic in your
7 testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency?
sa A, Extremely emphatic.
i .
3 i
g 0 And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
ea) 20 .
Z 2 he was never a contract aqent of the Agency?
3 i
Z A, Exactly.
z 22
“ 0. Do vou know whether he ever served in the capacity
oO
- Pa) .
R 5 . of being an informer or informant to the Agency?
3 4;
3 ; A. It is possible that he could have been a source.
+ 25 i

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HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 63

fay ie “SA Be

H
¢ : . |
2 1 ! a YOu mean a source of --

i ~ tl
3 | _ ; .
= 2 4 Source of information of another aqent. Another
a H
3
é 3 | agency agent. H
2 ‘|
Z 4! 0. Do the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?
A :
; i
fe a To my knowledde I don't recall anvthing like that but |
w ‘ . .
é it is entirely possible chat shat could have happened without
7 » being a matter of record.
é i
4 i
al . . . }
8 ia Do the files of the Agency reveal anv instance what-
q © ever in which Frank Sturcis was ever asked to undertake anv.
i
Ve | kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?
ore -
aah t
.. | 3, To my knowledge, nothing. . ;
doo i
4 i
rail ia Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence
! Le 3 OS
= 7 : i
N iz ‘ whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or
5 _ indirectly bv the Aqencv?
3 ac .
_ x To mv knowledge, no.
va : 4, Now, when vou sav “to mv knowledge, no", in answer |
16 i
: i
2 |
_, _ to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that ;
1 . '
af : i
- you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the
is ‘ i
te . : i
basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files?
- 1¢ i
3 i -
& ' A On Frank Sturgis, ves. i
3 BO 4
3 ; :
> i 0 Okav. During the vceriod of time that vou were with
21 |
| the Sveciai Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,
3 22 | sO ~
+ : can vou tell us when that becan in 1963?
<= go!
5 | aA When the Special Activities Group =~
3 £24 5 ;
3 i o No. When vour contact with the Special Activities
7 258 ij

hotocopy from
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HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 64

3 2 Group began?
2
3
Ps 2 5 A It began -- well, it becan around June of '63.
3 |
2 3 i "0, Now, with particular reference to the last half of
< i .
5
2 ‘|
2 2 | 1963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been
5s ‘involved, were there a creat many Cubans in the southern United
2 | States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being
7 « sponsored by the Agency?
3 By Wellm vou mean Acencyvy sponsored fronts?
a
H
ie 4 a Yes.
~~ i AL The Agency subsidized these-fronts in an effort to
+3 1, have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro
ar
19 |, factions. Obviouslv the ieaders-of the fronts knew that the
d we |
2 y= 4 CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
a av >
Q ‘
< .. , fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agencv
3 ae .
-- i or the 0.S. Government.
a :
a 0. But when vou say "supposedly," does the fact appear
i&
~ =~ to be otherwise?
3 _ WEL1, based on mv experience with the Cubans and this
oOo:
tg i type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
“4 ao
$ og it wouldn't take long for “nowledqe of any subsidy to surface
g i
2 a tt itself.
al
z 2! 0 Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.
2 a | ' .
5 53 | Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be
z os
a bd j involved in the CIA orqanizations?
a Kt?
2 a Yes. Photocopy from

HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 85

og tn “HE Ge

SECRET

| Gerald Ford Library


7 0 And again with particular reference to the Miami

2 ; area?

A, Yes.

Phone (Arce 202} 544 uooa

0, Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere

in the United States? I am asking now particularly with

4 | reference to New Orleans.
yo8 A There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am
oo _
= ; really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was
.) |
i
> § Sort of a sideshow to Miami,
“4
-. 4 a But the same is -- it is possible that some of the
a ,
-- 7 Same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded
-— }
4
ai by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?
3 ~~
by 2 A I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had
F aed
3 7 . . :
< -. | the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for
2 —_=
2d subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through
.. | New Orleans.
ar ie Well, can vou he more specific about what vou mean
‘i
_. . by that?
oa A, Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we
3 _. | were subsidizing there had *o he some ostensible source of
5 omnyl
: 1 income for them to continue what they were doing. A great
2 EL i ‘
3 | number -= well, not a qreat number, but a number of select
2 223 . am
_. | people were -= well, they were selected and then they were

talked to, to pose as trustees, if vou would, or directors or

whatever vou might have of some of these organizations in order

FG bat Sitcet, SEL,

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HY 50955 Doclda: 32204971 Page 66

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to get the funding through to the organizations. |

These people were normally prominent people and -- |

4 And did thev get funded by the Agency, then, through
the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do people?

A These well-to-do neople ostensibly would call a friendi
of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity,
and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this !
type of thing. Couid vour organization give us anv money , and
the guy. on the other end would sav, sure, we can probably lend
you $25,900 or something iike that, or donate $25,990. This is
the wav the funding went into the fronts.

a And was some of that funding arranged through veonle
in New Orleans?

A. T would =hink so. Ff helieve so,

a) Were anv of «he people in New Orleans through whom
that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be

involved in the investiqations conducted by Jim Garrison?

“RB o>) Mot to mv knowledae.

0. How about David Yerrie? Was he ever connected with

the Agency in any manner at all in providing funds or assistance

A I couldn't sav. = am just not familiar with -= we had

a great manv people shat did this.

0. How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a

funding source? )

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HW 50955 Doecld:32204971 Page 87

eas? Gag Tod HD, fs

NS

3 7 “A, This I do not know either.
s

a

a

z zs: A This I don't know.

1

1

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2 0, Pardon? |
| :

;

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i

2 BY MR. MANPREDI:

5 0 Where would that information be available?
é A Well, we have a suv that used to work with me who was

o down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.

8 0, Is he in the puiiding? ;
SC A Yes.
=e a, What is his name?
+: A Bill Kent. i
le a Bill Kent! |
3
< !
: _ A 0 Wes.
z +: BY MR. OLSEN:
2 a7 . {
_ a. Who is BilLi<e Which department?
LE |
_— A He is still with
Lé ;
i
_ BY: MR. MANFREDI:
~ i
_ on Western Hemisphere Division?
_ A No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I
. . -
2¢ think Career Management Group Staff. H
C {
>: ® - Is he officed near vou?
2 : {
A No. He 1s cown in the basement.
ge _ |
3 BY MR. OLSEN:
= 22
2 5 9, Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were|
: 4
E |
z on clat were used to orovide funds to the <=
= eo : !
4

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- Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 68

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Ae Oh, ves.
0. ~~ to the Cuban movements?

|
A. Yes.
0. Mo vou know whehter -- do vou know the identity of anv

t

of them in New Orleans?
A No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took .

llace in New Orleans.

2. T take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediar,
!

for providing funds so the Cuban fronts?

A. The files that Tlhave don't reflect it.
0 I think we covered this already just a few minutes aga

|

but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. :
i

. i

!

TI understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963

that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban neopie in the southera
- i

United States, salked ahout and believed that thev were invoived
in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? i
A That is right.

“0, Was it also vour understanding and vour impression

that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in

the southern United States about plans or prospects for the

assassination of Fidel Castro?

~- t

I don't think there was -- you have ,;

o

I would sav no.

got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost :
;

their homeland, their 7o0ssessions, they lost everything and they!
ad !

: i

blamed it all on one man. 1

Photocopy from

SECRET Gerald Ford Library

132204971 Page 89

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0, That is Fiedl Castre?
A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do

anything they could to get rid of him.

0, Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among
these Cubans?

A I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probably was
@ lot of talk about thar.

0. Nid vou participate vourself in the overhearing of

such conversations?

A. No.

0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to
you?

A Well, it was -- TI really don't remember what the

source of it was but I Snow in my discussions with people at the
Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing
that this subject alwavs came up. What were they going to do
with Fidel? How are thev coing to get rid of him and this type
of thing. I don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the
Cuban exile community was discussina.

a® | Yes. Po vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the
Agency in 1963?

A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the
DDP.

2) This is vour hest recollection --

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:32204971 Page 930

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A. Yes.

9 “~~ at the moment. Is it possible that he was with

Domestic Overations Division in the field of proprietaries

engaged --

A. I guess vou are right, ves, I believe he was there.

0 Did vou personaliv know Howard Hunt?

AY NO.

0 Never met Aim?

A 0) 6©E met Aim. “hat 2s all. I can't say I know him.
Q You would not nave xnown anything about his where~

i abouts on anv particular dav, then. Is that true?
A. Can we go off the record?

{Off the record discussion.}

THE WITNESS: bet‘s qo hack on the record.

| BY MR, OLSEN:

F a I would like to have it on the record.
; A Do you have a particular day?
0. Mo. Io am just asking vou if vour acquanitance with

Hunt was such that von would have known of his whereabouts on

any Darticular dav.

A. NO.»
ra Was it very frequentlv that you ever saw him?
i ag ; _
iH A Oh, I would see nim in the halls, this type of thing,

t

but -- bump into hin vrerhans downtown on the street.
0. Sut vou would have no occasion for. knowing from one

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32204971 Page 91

aid they as GR Shes , 7 H

3 - | day to the next where he was?
x u
3 ‘| ‘
a 9 3 A No. |
2 ~ at |
5 i . i
2 - 0 Have vou ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf |
fas J I - ” .
2 |
3 ! . i
2 « ‘| of the Agency as to where he was on Movember 22, 1963? : !

zo: A Yes.
2) a And when dic sou conduct that inauirv?
5 il A. I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent
' . t
i i
= ; one was I guess -- I am just trying to think. Well, it wasn't |
i
, = too lonq ago hecause we did have an inauirv and we obtained the:
-- | time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance whic!
7 . :
if 3 : a os : .
-- |} showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day. i
0. Was this just fairly recently?
z A Yes.
z a Io understood =rem what files I have seen, Mr. :
3 oF :
, Sturbitts, that the oniv records that were available from the |
tT 1
a |
3 . I
. | Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
an ; '
_. | during the two-week pav neriod ending the 23rd of November but |
a. Hl] :
Hl .
_, | that the records were not available as to how much sick leave
ac 4 :
i| : ; .
a5 “ or annual leave had been taken on any particular day. |
z i a. Well --. ”
iz 20 ji
: | 0 Am I mistaken?
3 £1 |
5 A As I recall. he was in a dutv status one dav and a
BRI : |
: fo, ;
. i gick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day. i
. of ; - {
= awe | H
5 | I would have to check that with mv Budget and Fiscal Officer,
3 Ea H
3 i He is the chan that cot that for me..
2 Pas

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HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 92

og? Ges “tet Hh an 8

I
Can vou check that for us?

3 1

= 5 A. Sure.

2  y

: 5 0. And give us the results of that? .

2 A A Yes.
. j

.

a 0 Because this is much more detailed information than
6 I have heen previoulv aware is available in the files of the

9 Agency.

8 A. All right. FT will do that.
9 BY MR. MANFREDI: ,
+c a) Do vou want to make a note of that?
1 AL Let me have a piece of paper. .
_ 0. yOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts’ phone number which
' ak ‘
; |
z jz is 351-5196. i
z _ THE WITNESS: That was 22 Movember, right?
3 le i
_ 8Y MR. MANFREDI: |
_ a That is the dav. |
a2
. A (1963. |
ly H
=f |
_ a In response to whose inquiry was that investigation
1é
made? |
” 19° |
5 A I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. [
G 20. |
S : . : |
z . don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether -- |
8 21°
3 “ Twill just have to check that. I don't know who it was. |
2 22°
Qn And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the |
a Pao) : i
5 inquiry?
3 24, |
2 A No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefull;}
7 25 H
I

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Gerald Ford Library

WY 50955 Docld:3220497T1 Page 93

= aa Waa 8

You said there was a previous inquiry?

Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt

a vear ago,

I guess.

' who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of

\

About the first time these Photographs began to be

Yes, and actually I think this -= Archie's inguiry

This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm

Archie was
Chiefyof Station, London, for a long time and he apparently

made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media.

And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with

will have to check that. That is the way

did cet this through our Budget people who

the Office of Finance.

was on annual leave the day before?

Photocopy from
Gerald Ford Library

g
3 1 0
ivi :
3 il
3 -
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E 4 * European Division.
5 0. When was that inquiry received?
6 A. That was about
y BY MR. OLSEN:
8 0.
9 circulated?
Wem A. Yes.
12 0} About the bums in Nallas?
sa A.
a +e
z e ; ;
2 jz ; came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe.
ed ay
3
< =
2 at
— 0
16
;, . Magazine?
_ A That is right.
wi
19. 2
3 1
3 .
5 aa
3 20 5
: - | Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?
2 elt ,
= i a. Well, =
z RE, il
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5 “ I understood it but I
: 23 ji
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3 _ || Rave the contact wit!
: 24 r ‘
_ it .
2 if 0, And that he
~ iad
7 25 I
if
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a
SECRET
HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 94

the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that |
4

{


J
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|
|

a

3 - A. No, He was on a duty status the day before, on sick
5 g i leave, and then on duty status ‘the following dav.
i) ij - >
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3 Hy
5 3 | BY MR. MANFREDI:
: | |
2 24 Q. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's
|
= : previous pattern with respect to sick davs had oeen?
af a  (Nods in negative)
¥ BY MR. OLSEN:
s 2 November 22, 1963, was a Fridav. When you say that
6 records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --
yr 4 A It was a Tridav., Then I was mistaken.
| .
s: 0 Does that mean he was on duty the following Monday
—_-— il .
y
yo { OY on the next dav, Saturdav?
2 aa Ht
z ‘| - . . .
2 +2 | a No. On the following Mondav. I didn't realize the
4 ic if
3 | .
@ ,. . 22nd was a Fridav.
2 =
i a Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief
-, | memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting
_ documents vou can Zind?
_ “OA Okav.
oo! 0. AS promptly as possible on this question.
~ io:
$ a I think that covers the subject matter.
3 au sl
= - : “IR. MANFREDI: I can cive you another moment if you want.
i _. | Can vou think of anvthina else?
2 Ze
3 i tie : .
3 aa MR. OLSEN: I think that is all.
= BO” '
5 aa MR, MANFREDI: Okay. Off the record.
3 a y
> tt as :
2 on | (Off the record discussion)
2 25
iH
4

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‘HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 95

BY MR. MANFRENT:

24 0) I am 80rryv for the interruption but over: the long

£ think Probably T saved vou some time,

d

Prune iAtas PUP) oa GOED

We are talking about newspaper editors when we wera inte

Tupted <= or when to invited the interruption, I guess fr ough

cn

5 ' to be fair,

2

‘Is it not a fact that the Agency had some relationship vw:

3 : some prominent newsvaner officials in the Miami area?

o
= A, Yes,
sn 0. And what vas the nature of that relationship?
“ae A, Traditionally «ne Chief of Station Maintained the
= relationship with Officials of the Miami Herald, Particularly ;
2 mo . .
& HI : : =: . . . :
2 -3 i Latin: American Gtltor, as well ag relationships with Staff
= =e .
a “ ;
< -: | ‘members of it, T think i+ i8 the Miami News and Stringers’ for
2 -=

he tother newspaners and ‘@riodicals Stationed in Miami.

ay What was the Purpose of those relationships?

te

Tt really couldn't sav what the prupose of the relation

Ship was, f mean, the same reason that we establish a relation-

‘
ie)

i
C

ship with the Press-in this town. There were certain things thar

ba
rey

: |
8 _ might come to the attention of the press involving true names
a) Bae : :
fe} : '
z ae and incidents that we falt shonld Perhaps not. be surfaced at any
= aL

Ey |
z oo | Particular time, !
2 raed ; |
= ~ - |
3 a- a) DO vou have anv xnowledge of use of the press in Miami!
= Re i
:
a no for Propaganda nurnoses?
= Kite

2 _ A Ho. No.
- ao i

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HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 36

Eolos if ———oo 95
i !
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3 | Q Would you know if that were the case?
wr t
x 21
a A. Mo. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was
st !
2 ~ ; }
q S| ; ;
Q a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these
E £4 _
#  peodle as well as they were assigint us. |
iH i
= | i
| Q What assistance would you render for members of i
i H
é i ; ;
J the press in Miami? :
7 | . .
: A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor |
5 | | | |
we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of
5 | !
i! areas he periodicaily visited and the Chiefs of Stations
i
12 4 _ .
# would give him background briefings and this type of thing
|
1: | oun ,
j; on the developments within a given countr;.
121 | :
3 ~ Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? |
= iz |
Led : . es : j
5 ee A Predominantly, I would say probably the’ Miami '
2 _. 1
3 “" | jterald received probably a little more attention than.the
i °
1é ; neinal /
“" | other papers, principally because-it was 2 Large paper and
, oo
1é | their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout
~ tne Hemisphere,
“eo 3 Was he also used as a source?
VC .i
3 “ A No.
g
S H .
Q ec i 9 DO newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive
g arf ._ ee
3 oO Similar briefings?
3
= 22 | 4A Yes.
ul :
vi Pa! . {
< YG 3 Ye talked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time
3 J
& a ;
z a4 ; about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these
: | !
7 £1 organizations? |
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HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 97

mbh 2 5 a6
g .
8 1 3
z ‘ A Well, the membership varied. As I Said, we were
“i om
$2 |
a | principally interested in the leadership of the organizations.
o i
& Sf ; ; ; ; - .
g ; Once the organization was established and the leadership took.
¢
Ed 4
over, then thev would take care of enlisting the, I guess,
getting membershio from the Cuban exil community to join.
6 . re : +
2 What were their functions, the fronts?
7
: A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:
8 _ ; ;
; thing of the splinter groups and get -~- as I said, it was a
g | .
political organization in exile.
is * sa. . .
9 Did they conduct any operations?
~e A No, not that I know of.
; 12 ii as tos
5 a 2 Just like a political party?
a s
a’ iz . wae
a . A Like a political party.
z
« ~ pe
a 2 How many of these fronts were there?
a A There were several of them. i really don't remember
~€ the names of them. The FRD was one. ‘The Revolutionary
27 : ~ , :
a Democratic Front. = guess that was probably the biggest -one.
“© And’ there were some others.
1a 4 = +
3 a 3 The &Dpr?
o if
Fe u .
Q eC | EN FRD. _
fy |
3 + 9 I sée.
E 22 |! seer tees ; ; we:
, i A Front Sevolutionary Democratic. It is the
ua) ! :
a an
3 <~ i Democratic Revolutionary Front.
S|
g a | 2 All right Are these groups still in existence?
he
. A T woulé think not. I really don't know.

nn
an

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Page 98

abh 3

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

WARD & PAUL

. Washington, 0.C. 20003

S.E

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aH

Sa Hy “Ores OO er - 97

9 Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?

A Ho. There was but there isn't any more. There
hasn't been one there for years.

Q- When was it disbanded?

A I think the station was established around 1958

and -- perhaps it was established before that. I think it

went out of existence in 1958.

Q Do you now whv it went out of existence?
A No, = aconizt. = don't have any idea.
2 Do vou xnow what function it was nerforming?
A (Jods in negative.)
9 You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked

in the Cuban community for the CIA?

A He worked with these fronts, too.
oe) Vas he cerforming any intelligence function in the
community?
A Intellicence functions. Well --
, 2 Was ne collecting information?
A Sure. If he got information that he thought was

worthwhile he would nass it on.

oe) Now, woulc ne have been considered one of the three

or 500 »~ersons emploved or assigned to the Miami Station?

aA Yes. He was a contract employee.
9 And were intelligence requirements levied on such

contract emplovees?
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HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 99


ep Te EE ee

i=}
i=]
3 ly . : P
Ra A Normally, the requirements are vretty standard,
=
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3 e or they were at that time. But here again, you always have
< ran ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to
z 4 ;
be surfaced.
5 _ _ + s *
“ Q Some of these contract employees were, then, in
6 the business cf ccilecting intelligence information in the
? Cuban communities in Miami.
8 A Right.
g Q Now, I think we finished with the AMOTS but can
coon you think of any cther functions serformed by the AMOTS that
is. we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?
, 1é | A Mo, not really. No.
2
i
4 lé 9 I think vou oreviously described them for me as the
a . :
3 ls eves and ears into the Cuban community.
is A Right.
1é Q And they actually had a physicai facility in Miami
1? which was their headcuarters, did they not?
1é A Exactly.
a 19 : 2 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to supe
i]
3 2C.. vise that facility.
3 22 A Yes.
2 22 | Q Now, what has happened to -the AMOTS?
mT
‘ 26 A The AMOTS were craduaily phased down and will go
= 24 | out of existence -- che AMOTS are out’ of existence, aren't
° 25 they? Isn't it the AMDUKES or -- these are the radio. people.

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HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 100

WW Sa Gs FS Be G

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oe

i 99
ny sd (
abh 3 8 1}
z i 9 And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?
a '
g 2
& | A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people.
g e | ;
E i 9 Thev are the ones that conducted the intercept
E a |
i for NSA?
5 |
i A Yes. The only reason we use two different names
|
6 . a : y a . -
i ais that in ¢ach ct these things in those cays we had to have
9 i .
a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the
, wd
8 |
i = f
; funding.
9 :
i ) S50 AMDUKE and AMOT --
i
1c ¥
H A Synonymous.
i
11!
i Q -- are crvptonyms?
t
| 12 |
z A Yes.
z
7 13 | ;
= HI 9 Do the initials stand for anything other than --
é 14
~S 3B HO, Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt |
: somehody you just call downstairs and they give you a4
t
16 |; . tata: : 3 can ' :
i crypt. You con't nave anvthing to do with it. The AM happened
7 4 . ; _ 1.
i hat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.
© ‘ 3 Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for
H|
Ht ; - . . . .
a assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the
; ;
20 | political cenventions in 1968 and 1972, would vou briefly
it
o7 ' _ 7 ' . 7
| describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by
3 it
= _*2' she Agency to tne Secret Service?
‘ ‘|
- 23 | - . 3 ,
3 il aN At the recuest of the Secret Service we conducted
= 24 | name traces on incividuals whom the Secret Service wanted
. 7 craced. These includedthe emplovees of all hotels in Miami
|
|

a Tie Yon BRK Es 100

; i
sh 6
it
g i
2 i)
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z Beach where any convention activities were to take place,
er) i
g 2!
a | emplovees of catering services, limosine service, employees
eo
2 in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
z 4 iH
i is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.
5 I ; , ; os 7
‘ Foreign news people and media, television, radio people.
6 . ;
: Q Jere these people on whom name traces were requested
van
: all foreign nationals?
8 jj oo:
A All foreign nationals.
Q 4 ; ot : . -
' 2 “Jag there any check made to determine whether
ic | = : + pe |
i any of them were American citizens?
|
li - ; - . :
: A Ja levied on the Secret Service as a requirement
12 ; . Les a : ;
5 12 | that they have identified these people by nationality before
: 13 |
i we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time
fi HH
: 14 |
3 ~ they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens
ana which we promptly sent back to them and toid them we could
|
16 | .
Hi not trace.
Wy
aan o And this practice was Followed both in 1968 ana
a8) 1972?
34 . .
3 io A That is right.
4 t -
@ '
g 20 | 2 And where were these names traced?
3 et i A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The
z i
3 2 . . +: . : . = : oy
2 22 | Miami Station did their name check and we did our name cneéchk
4 . :
— { : 2 . : . . -
3 235 here. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had
i | oe |
= 4 more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.
= 5 : 1 .
. #5 || 0 But the names were traced through Agency files?
i
|
an)

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HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 102

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; 20

: 21

3 22

: 25

HW 50955 Docld

aot te AE 8 LOL

|
| A Through Agency files.
' ‘ ; : : s
| 9 Yas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI
| on this as well?
i A Oh, ves.
|
I 9 And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name
Q
| check --
| A Right.
! . . ; :
Q -- on people who might pose a security threat --
| A Yes.
- |
9 ~~ to a candidate? |
4 Vell, they were just trying to cetermine who might
be a security threat.
Q That is right. Potential threat.
cA Yeas,
{ . . .
| For what political parties -- strike that.

conventions?

A

rather

of the

In 1968 was this service provided for both political

conventions.
neid in Miami that year?

+
Lt

Mo. guess it was in 1972 they were both held

I think it was just. the Democratic in 1968.

These requests did come from the Secret Service

than --
From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director
Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for

Photocopy from
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- SECRET

1322704971 Page 103

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

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on

WARD & PaUL
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19

20

S.E€., Washington, O.¢. 20003

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102

support.

Do you still maintain the records with respect *o

xO

that tracing activity?

A I have all che names that have been traced.

2 And “they are on little cards down in your files?
A Yes,

9 Why have those records been maintained? ts there

any reason those records have been maintained?
A “Vell, beacause ve were told to maintain them when
che Watercate thing broke.

2 I see.

And since then nobody will destroy anything.

bys

Q OK Are vou aware of any picketing at various

places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban

A it was not aware of it until I was told of it.

t still don't know whether this WaS a spontaneous action on
the part of these people or whether they were instructed to
do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to.

3 At what locations has it been reported that Pickets

were located?

aA Airline offices in New York, Miami. I think another
place. I forget where it was,
3} flave you in fact been able to verify that these

persons were Cubans?
, Photocopy from

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HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page i04


wees b . gd Tox Man I in 3

1 4 A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history

that this indeed did take slace. ‘Jow, what I have been trying

Prone {Area 202) 544-6060

to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized
this,whicn I fully coubt.

9 Who was the On-Site Case Officer?.
; a 2 -
A At that sime it was a fellow by the name of Tony i
i i
? ! Sforza.
if :
i is) Is he stiil alive?
i |
" . . ; . ote . . H
9 i A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know |
;
10 | whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the |
a1! ; . as .
it AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with
: 12 | Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France,
2. |
z} ‘ . . . . . i
z 1s i 9 Other than this incident which we -- strike that.
a i : H
|
3 14 i What kind of an investigation have you conducted?
25 |i A I have taiked to people, which is really all you
i a
16: can do. There is no other way you can do it.
17 9 You have been unable to determine who, if anyone,
18% authorized this activity? ave you been able to identify
- 19 any of the persons who participated in the picketing?
:
s if .
6 20 51 A Mo.
:
z i : ; oe
2 21 ji 9 With what frequency did this activity occur?
E I
3 22 | A t don't have any idea. I only know of one instance.
f |
rey i 7 . vr . .
3 23 | Q This was in New York City?
|
a 24 | RN New York City and Miami. |
id |
2 \ : . oe os |
+ 75 0) Do vou know of anv organized political activity that |
|
i |
|
|

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HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 105 , , —_

1 a the “as OY fhe 5 . : 104
_ | |
ah 108 1!
2 } > .
= i the AMOTS engaged in?
Pe) t
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a | A To my Knowledge, they didn't engage in any.
a
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2 Q Any political activity.
é 4 i - : foo 1
i Do vou know of any other activities that they have |
4 conducted within this country, they or any of their members :
u
6 i . - eae ne . ;
have conducted within this country that we have not alreacy
7 |
| discussed this afternoon? |
| :
oS a No.
|
9 I 9 Any volitical activities? Any operations? i
10 | A No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain
| |
select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban |
j . i
12 | . ; , , , |
2 H defectors. In other words, Live with them until they are
: 13 | . :
; | resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity
z ! i
s 14 Hi - at os , ue
3 i they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of anv-
15 | ening cise.
~ | thing else. i
| t
16 | oO Do you know of any criminal activities that have
1 |
17 | been attribited to --
| i
|
18 |, A I nave heard of some allegations which have never
| |
2 19 | been croven. |
: ;
§
J 20 9 What are the allecations? !
a : :
5 7 4 . . : :
3 ei | A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances |
= | :
3 aa and this type of thina.
ral j . . . :
< a5 2 Have those allecations been made with any fre-
3
3 24 | quency? ;
3
° 25 A Well, I Zoreet who it was. It was during the
| SECRET
i Photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library
HW 50955 Doocld:32204971 Page 106 ; "

— ee eee 195

J

i
| Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out
e | and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we

made file checks and this type of thing. One particular

Phone (Area 202) 944-6000

b Gri

ral : A . . : . . =
= | activity was supposed to have been carried out in Rockefeller
. 9 , Center in New York and iz turns out it was taken out of
° ' context. It was a training mission and -- craining exercise.
i oa - oe, : : ;
7 | These guys were being trained in Surveillance in New York
l !
8 | and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhattay
a : 7 \ 5 ;
2 | ~~ Chase Manhattan and =c come back out and then they were :
, Lo! supposed to diagram the lavout of the bank. And this to some j
; i
tl | of them meant casing the sank when in fact it was just a |
| |
4 12 | memory exercise.
]
< :
a 13 | 9 With what frecuency were those kinds of training
t y .
« i . : . j
3 14 exercises conducted?
if ~ i}
i
15 | A Nell, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt.
16 } that these people, seleczad individuals, were to be trained |
| .
17} in trade craft.
| |
le fl 4 and did their trade craft training include such |
;
- 19} “things as surveillance? :
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3 20 it A Sure,
ral
5 21! 2 And break-ins? H
po | |
2 £2 | A Jo. Not break-ins. Nor Surreptitious entry. As f
uf |
a 23 | said, in the case of this sarticular thing, it was misinter-~
2 7 ‘ 1
: I . |
5 24 || vreted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -- they |
_ !
+ 25 | could have walked into vrour office, your outer office and -
| :
ll \ . ~ i
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HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page 107

oh 12

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

WARD & PAUL

41G First Surcet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003

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said -~ the instructor could have said two hours later teil
. a
me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it?

This is just for observation.
9 You statec earlier none of those allegations have

been proven. ilave any of them been proved to your

satisfacticn?
A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.
Q I take it you do not believe they took place other

than the training exercise?

A Oh, no. No. I don't believe they did.

9 Do you know of any instances where members of that
group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
in this country?

A No.

Q  ° Have you ever been present at any discussions of
the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the

Miami Station within this. country?

R Leqality? Ho.
a Yow about the propriety?
A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.

No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or
the propriety of having the Station.

9 There have been some allegations in the press and
elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of

that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those?

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HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page 108

‘oh 13

Phone {Ares 202} 544-6000
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WARD & PAUL
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410 Pinst Street,

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24 |

25 |

aad Bs hes BS B 107
A NO. i
i
DP) We received some correspondence and I have seen some |

articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of |

. i
{
|

a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various!
!
operations in this country.

You mean this country?

be
A

2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some

other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any xnowledce

of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type
of operation within this country? i
i

A No. i

2 Do you Know whether or not the Agency has provided

financial support for Cuban businessmen in this country?

+S)
te!
<

No. Not =o my knowledge. “ . i

ve

2 Other than the maintenance of cover? ‘
i
|
A No. :
j
; |

oa Establisnment of businesses?
.
A NO. }
{
- |
») No?
H
. |
ot No. !
a in the course of our discussions today we discussed

!
the: AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various volitical front groups, |

revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre,

|
Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported

.
by the Agency, either financially or otherwise? \

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HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Fage 109 : -

ar Gm Ge BS ie 6 108

|
° i
3 |
rs 1 A Not to my knowledce.
4
v
Be) } -a6 : . a6 4 +
= 2 Q Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached
oS
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a
F; 5 to Mr. Colby?s statement?
2
2 a “7
= 4 A £@s.
!
5 | 9) Did you have some role in drafting that?
t
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6 | A You mean the Miami Station thing? ; ~|
oo |
9 9 Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". .
A Ves.
8 | |
;
9 | Q You wrote it?
i
i
5 ms Yes. |
10
11 9 It has a familiar ring about it. There are references
|
12 to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are
3 ,
q } 2 : .
a 13 | there any others other than the ones we have been discussing?
a ae |
3 | a - , _
< 14 l A Jot to my knowledge. here are, you know, if you
3 =
15 | want, to .ca@ll.it an oraganization, we did, vou know, subsidiz
16 chevRekivout of Juanita Castro.
1
+ Q | Yes, I am familiar with that.
L7 tt
V
18 | A ‘You are familiar with all that and that is by the
i moard now, too.
a 19 |
3 | a ;
s 9 She was. doing -~ ~-
5 20
3
2 A Propaganda.
3 21
3 / fy -- oropaganda broadcasts. .
3 22 -
ai : :
a | A Yes.
“ 23 |
2 i H
2 ! : ; we {
rl 24 2 Do you have any D2ersonal knowledge of what xXind of
x Ke
2 25 | intellkigence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami i
+
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HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 110

iw)
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Phane {Area 202) 544-606b

WARD & PAUL

410 Fesst Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003

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24

25

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iow by the Miami Statisn?

7)
Ny
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109

A There are no domestic activities at all in the

Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been moved back

nere to Headquarters. The ‘tiami Station now is completely

and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.

9 Does

Station -- I beg your pardon --

does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban

situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban community?

A’ No. Nell, let

me exblain that to you. Ne do have

a career agent who nas been with us for a good many vears

in Miami and we do use ‘sim

who are still in Cuba. mean,

in Cuba.

who have relatives

Now, this is .
recruitment target,
type of thind. He does contac
United States. If we come

he might be recruitable,

we will, after we make our ctreliminary assessment,

weaknesses or strengths,

=o contact relatives of Cubans

relatives who are in the U.S.

done 2rincipally with the idea of a

this

these people all over the

across an individual that. looks Like

or verhaps we could even double hin,

and we

find out where relatives anc these types of people are, we

will ask this career agent cr
these neople, be it New York,

ever.

2 So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in

country, aS access agents.

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HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page 111

nstruct him to go contact

New Jersey, Chicago, or what~

this

Photocopy from
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Oh

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|
16 |
g i
3 1 | . .
a | A Right.
B i
a 24: . 2 . ;
3 Q Just like foreicn associates would do.
3 . | - i
RS “ | A Exactly.
2
é a |
4 2 Are there any mere people like Bernard Barker who
u I
- fy . . : i
° F are contract emplovees of the Agency who still work in the
:
6 | stgami-Cuban communit:?
7 , |
| A No. None.
|
8 | a) That entire apdaratus has been --
! |
9 | A das been dismantled.
10 | 9 -~ dismantled. What is the current size of the
il | Miami -Station? |
2 | |
4 12 A I really con't know but it runs between 11 and 14,
a . :
' = =~ seen: : 1 t . os j
a iS | as far as I know. I think it will be ll by the next fiscal
z |
< ta tt .
3B 4% | vear.
16 || MR. MANFREDI: off the record.
| |
16 (Discussion off the record.)
17 | MR.MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
18 || BY MR. MANFREDI:
H|
H
3 19 Q . There are >resently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
3 | ;
o 20 | oof Niami?
6 i
g 21 | A No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of
3 22 | eadauarters. -
.)
“ ; 3 zs 4 . = :
z 25 | i) And even from the Neadquarters location there are
a
& | .
3 24 | no Daramilitary operations?
2 H
S | Photocopy from
2 25 | A Mo. , Gerald Ford Library
| ‘
|

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HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 112

=
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Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

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WARD & PAUL
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3 22
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HY 50955 Docld

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Q No covert -- well, there is some propaganda activity

i ;
| being conducted still?
f

i that we had, the radio, taped Drogram, is being terminated

oy 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated

now.
2 The Miami Station is under official cover.
i A Yes.
f 2 And it has been decreased to how many people?
i
i
qi A Between il and 14,
|
: Q And it has absolutely no responsibilities with

i
1
i respect to Cuba?
H
I
' A Absolutely none.

i) And its responsibilities are entirely directed to
other Latin American countries?

A To Caribbean countries.

9 Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are
other Agency stations in the Caribbean?

A Yes.
‘ i) Nell, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts.
Tf you have anything vou would like to add you are welcome
to do so.

A No, I have nothing.

Q I want to thank vou on behalf of myself and the

Commission for vour cooperation. ;
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132204971 Page 113

| A On a very small scale, and the covert action facility


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HY 50955 Docld: 32204971

SEGRE!

Sure.

I am sorry ve had to take so much of your time.

That is all rignt.

Thank you again.

(Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of the

| deposition was concluded.)

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