157-10005-10225 | 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
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Date:10/01/93
Page:1
JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM

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AGENCY INFORMATION

AGENCY : SSCIA
RECORD NUMBER : 157-10005-10225

RECORDS SERIES :

AGENCY FILE NUMBER : R891

ORIGINATOR : SSCIA
FROM :
TO:

v
TITLE ;
TESTIMONY /REPORT .OF PROCEEDINGS WITH EXHIBITS

DATE : 08/12/75
PAGES : 90

SUBJECTS :
TESTIMONY OF HOUSTON, LAWRENCE RE: CIA AND CASTRO
EXHIBITS ARE INCLUDED

DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
CLASSIFICATION : T
RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED
CURRENT STATUS : P
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/01/93
OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS ;
BOX 248-02

[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED

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WARD & PAUL

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going up to try and halt some aspects of the grand jury

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Niarchos' ship captains named Katopodes brought a libel action
I believe it was, against Onassis for some letter he had written
about some activities of Katapodes, I can't remember the
details now.

We didn't know where this was leading. So this was in

the Supreme Court of New York State, and so I went to a fellow

I knew in the U.S. Attorney's office and asked him if he
could keep track of how this suite was developing to see if
it was leading into some of the connections we had, par-
ticularly with Niarchos.

And he got some of the pleadings and some of the pre-
trial evidence --

Mr. Wides. But you don't recall any contacts between

the Agency and the Justice Department resulting in Mr. Yeagley

proceedings in New York growing out --

Mr. Houston. It strikes no valve.

Mr. Wides. Let me ask just one more question in this
area and then we will move on to the document I asked you to

look at before we started.

Mr. Maxwell. I have just one other question.

Mr. Wides

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femployee. And at the time Mr. Joost and the other fellows#”

4

RCIA employees of the station at Thailand in 1951.44 ey were
allegédy to have been involved in disposing of fom
, A

fEther one or

in 1955 this w&@,brought to the attentigf’

the efforts, among

of the affair?

Mr. Housto

Mr. aw Do youknow if any action@was taken earlier

F. a
than the#time in 1955 when Mr. O'Donnell fits

w it first came to my attention. But when it did, toate

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that I recall were going on out there. And Ithink one of the

who had soffe knowledge of it.

“4

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__ the best of my a a T put |
4

O was much concerned

this together ane talked to Allen Dulles yi

about it. He sai, I think we ought tofreport that to

ey,

Justice.

And I said, therejis no particdlar problem, because
there is nothing we can d@ about J because there is no crime

against the U.S. that I can® ina” in this situation, it is.a

fication. I suppgve the relations with MAT at that time were

So, I & it to -- I
can't vonehoor-- probably to the Assistant Att@rney General,
Criminal¥/Division, who ever it was.

They said to the effect, thank you, that is ite. There

is nothing we can do.

Mr. Wides, Was there any discussion of the poss®bility

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tof giving information to the Thai authorities so that they,

cod decide whether to exert jurisdication? g
} Mr. Houston. My recollection is that the ind#éations

BN
were that, the Thai authorities had as much informagon as we
did. I ac remember to the contrary, but a hoe the
information wé Y

Mr. Wides.
to talk to some of
knew about the situati

Mr. Houston.

Mr. Maxwell. ye Bn taken against either
of the CAT employees?

Mr. Wides, , ywas the other one. And

he was recalled.

he two persons

“charges or allegations wer

\
I remember Joost being a proklem, but I
i . ea,

member what the outcome was. And Dennis Fay

Mr. Wides. Did you have another question.in this area?
Mr. Maxwell. I just wanted to say, if you wanted to

continue, you said there were three cases that eliminated the

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kind of cases which CIA had with Justice, and the referrals,
and you had gone through one. And I wondered if you wanted
to go through the other two.

Mr. Houston. All right.

The second one was quite an interesting one. If I give
it in too much detail, excuse me.

Mr. Maxwell. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Maxwell. Back on therecord.

Mr. Houston. The staff officer in Italy all of a
sudden disappeared from his post, and there was indication
that he had with him a considerable sum of money, something
in the nature of $30,000, I can't remember the exact amount.
This was promptly reported, and he disappeared into the blue.

The %& started looking into it. And I believe we

sent people over to try and look into it, and found that

there had been a serious family problem between himself and hig

wife.
Finally, through some sort of source in Mexico we got
word that this fellow was near Mexico City, and he passed word

Yeethrough a lawyer that he had written all the

operational details of what he had been engaged in in Italy,
which again were very sensitive, sealed them, and put them
in a vault which only thelawyers could get at, with instruc-

tions to his lawyers that if anything happened to him, no

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The SEC, as a result has raised some questions with Justice

29

between our justice and our statutory problems. This is
before Justice now.

Mr. Wides. Is there a file in the OGC office generally
regarding, not necessarily every one, but many of your --
which would contain many or most of OGC contacts with
Administrative agencies over the years?

Mr.Houston. No, because they weren't -- there probably
is a substantial file on relations with Internal Revenue.

But those were to a large part either working out our own

tax equations on our own personnel with cover problems which
you probably know about, or the CAT situation, or Southern
Air.Transport, and not interferring with IRS prosecutions,
although several times we were involved -- here is the type of
case I guess you are talking about.

What is the fellow out in the Philippines -- I think his

rm Sowell LI, ‘ae who had one of the biggest tax assess-

ments made against an individual made against him, I think,

$2 million? And Gieecomiie very definitely tried to involve

us in his defense. There was some connection with @@gne ue
in the Philippines, you couldn't be in the Philippines without
some connection with them. And yet gave IRS the full in-
formation, and said, don't bother with us, we are not
concerned.

Mr. Wides. What about such things as the contacts with

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Mr. Houston. It was a memo of DITEL's that I saw.

Territories.

Mr. Wides.

I think it was dated after I left. TI saw it in draft after-

ward. It had to do, I recall, with operations in the Trust

In-other words, the first category of issue

that I mentioned?

Mr. Houston. Yes.

Mr. Wides.

Page 6

With regard to MH MUTUAL, which is a topi

He was ANVIL, a staff official bu

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Houston. Not entirely a proprietary.

who that is,
disclose.
Mr. Houston S\ can't do that.

ould we refer to h

Mr. Wides. How in terms of his

ce

position if we were t Yaing to ascertaing#is identity, or

if we were negotiating w the Agency, as it were? What

was his title vis-a-vis them anagement? Was he the
project officer?

Mr. Houston. He was epeainly -- let's call him the

project officer for MM ANV
Mr. Wides. And thai’ was for

particular person?

He was there fr pretty near the

Mr. a A . i
start until he retired by,about two years

i

go, three years

I would say,

&

,or the seventies.
Mr. iildes. This is not John Keaney, is i

Mr #@Houston. No.

Mrg Wides. Was John Keaney's role more in teégn

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Wides.

°

Ag to get access to materials
pe ,

on it. Without taking yous heGugh all of its multi-faceted

ee
oy

aspects, which would take sofiel

, er making other investments to assist the pens nr

bx,

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Mr.

person you were reife

Mr. Houston.

And they made at
ms to invest in stock of

i .
her extensive oontractual

And we did.

Mr. Wides. Do

ments were made an,

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Mr.

Houston. For a while

by this outside counsel. It wa EA LOO happy a relationship,

not because of his fault... honest
best. But we took too long ecommendations and
often lost a market by t gh our own in-
ternal controls.
So, finally, w gone to him
hat is, so we could show that@we had

i Mr. Houston. Let me guess at around 1969, something

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Mr. Wides. Was he a consu

Mr. Houston. A member o

Mr. Maxwell. Mrs. Thunberg?
; és

Mr. Houston. Yes.

Mr. Wides.

board was what,

Wides. What was the relationship between yourgelf

ané’the banks and the insurance companies, the CIA?

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they protect the investigation in case it got into sensitive

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ginal contact, and the

primary.

large this arrangél nt worked extremely well.

their investment?

Yoularly. We kept some of the money on deposit with th

TOP SECRET

So that was indemnification?

and

Mr. Hous Complete indemnification. And

were talking about @ benefit of

Mr. Houston. Both of investment portfolios

their investment

manager, who were most cooperativ i what they were invest-
ing.

Mr. Wikes. And what was contact in the
Agency during that period fdr’ the insura companies?

Mr. Houston. I went

And we had some offshore assets that were ostensibly

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got the normal\@rime rate on our deposits,
es

they particularlyNin the field of Eurobonds had fa

. SY
advice, and we also

New York who had inve

Eurobonds. So far as I Ke they did know the Agency

VA

was involved, but they gave¥advice i a best interest rates

“4c,

Was a highly specialized

pany?

eae

Mr. Houston.N
+ and the only thing I knewAwas from

about Suydam Compan: ‘
v4 6

.personal knowledge going back to a trust my sistes

érn Air Transport told me that he was continual ¥g\
Ve 2N

bein’ fasked by contact with Suydam and Company. And he sa‘

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that ye only one he knows, was the Guaranty Trust.

was ay else,I don't know about it.

Mr

Mr. Houston.
to bring up their ideas
stock field, until more

consulting the economic

ment policies.

Mr. Wides.

cs

tow ype you differentiate that from economi@, intelli-

A

gence except that it would be --

Houston. Because our investments, except fier the

corks, were almost entirely in U.S.investments. aAnd¥

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65

interest was in the foreign field. And I don't remember them
js

decisions as distinct
by outside?

Mr. Houston. There
papers ~-
the board

been touched on. I don't

recall it

yen use.
easary to

function.

In other/

@ project officer. On the design and organizational

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Ht looked very complicated. In operation it was qui

Te was handled really as one entity with varioudl aces

w\And the complications of those whereby A cainine

your companies

directors, and things, and keeping your letterhea ?straight

for your writing the different companies.

Mr. Maxwell. ‘~ there other sources of funds, |

profits made by propriataries in stock or bond transactions that

went back into the investment fund?

Mr. Houston. They Le all go#into the central in-

vestment fund, and in the init

market broke there were some capay

the investment policy went 7 and

of deposit, where for a whWle you were geet ing -~ I think we

Mr. Wildes. You mean the capitalization of paj icular

companiegfagainst insurance?

Houston. Exactly.

Mr. Wides. What about proprietary profit, was that

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[
ey 1 that term?
8
3
- ouston. No.
3 2 ‘
3 5 Let usSeget one thing straight. The. certifigate of depo-
& 4
5° Mr. Widesi'§
6 | Mr. Houston
7
8 by a U.S. company.
9 Mr. Wides.
10 tions of a foreign country’
Mr. Houston.
1l
believe there were
4 12
2
a I can't even be sure of tha.
é 13 £
large of subsidiaries of
3 14
15 their subsidiary bonds#
16 Mr. Wides. Thank you. ss
Mr. Maxwell., I wouldlike to go thegush some of the
18 material in the Olsen case. And I have marked as Houston

Exhibit 5 the excerpts from the IG's diary which I showed you

19
. before. /
20

v
: 21 (The document referred to was
fe}
é marked Houston Exhibit No. 5
z 22
W for identification.)
eo _
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2

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