167-10011-10083 | 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |

Date: 10/06/93

Page:1
JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
Bees IDENTIFICATION FORM
. AGENCY INFORMATION
AGENCY : SSCIA
RECORD NUMBER : 157-10011- 10083
RECORDS SERIES :
AGENCY FILE NUMBER :
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR : ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION
FROM :
TO:
TITLE
DESPOSITION/TRANSCRIPT OF|STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.
DATE ; 04/16/75 >
PAGES : 114 . '
SUBJECTS :
-_ OF STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
CLASSIFICATION : S
RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED
CURRENT STATUS : P

DATE OF LAST REVIEW :
OPENING CRITERIA :

COMMENTS :
SSCI Box 292, Folder 1

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SECRET

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION

ON CIA ACTIVITICS

Langley, Virginia
Wednesday, April 16, 1975
Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURSITTS, called for
examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,
the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary
Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:59
o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proccedings
being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and
transcribed under her direction.
APPEARANCES:
On behalf of the Commission:
GEORGE MANFREDI, ESO.,

ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.

Page 4


Q And would you briefly review for me the history ot

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2 i WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
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» called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on CIA :
~ i Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the "Notary
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| Public, was examined and testified as follows: -
2 4 ‘
I EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION
|
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9 | ; \
| Q Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the
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@ am aA William C. Sturbitcs.
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av A Sure.
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@ < eG A I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for
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your employment with the Agency?

A

When I first came in I was in the Intelligence

Directorate for apcroximately ten years and I was put on specia

detail,

special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Pl

which is now the Directorate of Operations.

Q

A

A

Q

What year were you put on that detail?

I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.

And what did that detail involve?

Cuban operations, economic warfare.

And how long were you on that detail?

I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.
Between 1964 and 1973?

(Nods in affirmative.)

And in 1973 did you assume your current position?

Yes, January...

an

Now, while you were on special detail -- to the bon?

Yes.

Were you stationed in Washington?

Yes.

And did you commute with some frequency to ‘tiami?
Yes.

Were your activities in Miami in any way connected

with the operations of the Miami Station?

A

I took

Page 6

In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.

temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miari.

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Most of my operations were run out of Europe.

9 Run out of --

A Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones
were run out of Europe.

Q ‘Well, in the course of your activities with respect

to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the
operations of the Miami base?
A Yes.
Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?
A Yes, sir.
Q During the nine years you were with DDO's Cuban

operations, who was -- who were the chiefs of the Miami

A I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know
it. Well, I will come back to that.

Then, the next Chief of Station was

pam Cems
Q What years was he Chief?

"was there about a year and a half. He

left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's

eey was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterlin

He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.

9) Now, what was the formal title of the group to which

you were assigned for the 9-year period?

A Well, when I first came in it was known as the

Page 7 SECRET

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Special Activities Staff. it was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.
And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations
Group.

Q Now, was this a soecial group within the DDO or was

it attached to one of the area divisions?

A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing-

called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And

that -- when Harvey left, |

fee] Fitzgerald took over, it became Special Activities Staff.

It wasn't attached to anytning except -- it reported to the

Deputy Director, Plans.

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Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?

A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it.
was first created. Helms was DDP at that time.

Q and Task Force W was created immediately after the
Bay of Pigs?

A Well, not immediately. I think sometime around --

in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in

September, something like that, 1961.

Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities
Staff?
A Special Activities Staff and consequently became the |

Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went
back into the Western Hemisphere Division.

Q And what was the date of that reorganization?

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A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around,

1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.tl., and then

later DDP.

Q Now, tir.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr.

Harvey held after he left Task Force W?

A Yes.

Q And is he still with the Agency?

A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago.

Q Do you know where he lives at the present time?
A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.

He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm.

Harvey is a lawyer.

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A Yes, some place around there. It is in the midwest,
Indiana. |
Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force !
W?
A It was the overall Cuban operations. |
Q Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab-
lished? |
A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down

there about 1960 which was small,;

Q This was, then, orior to the Bay of Pigs?

A Oh, yes. 5
Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami

Page 9 | SECRET

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8 | reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerais
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them. I think Belin was going to do it himself.

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16 y - Qe All having to do with possible assassination?
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at A All having to do with this whole time period ard --
25 | can we go eff the record for a minute?

(Discussion off the record.)

ai BY MR. MANFREDI:
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21: fe) The first knowledge of such conversations that you
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MR. MANFREDI: On the record.
BY MR. MANFREDI:

Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by

the name of Frank Sturgis?

A

Q

the press?

A

Q

Indeed.

Is your familiarity based on what you have read in

No. It is what is contained in the files.

Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,

particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,

in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any

connection with the Agency?

A

Q

A

Q

I have.
What were the results of that search?
Absolutely no connection, never has been.

When we talk about connection, are we talking about

an employment relationship?

A

Q

That is what I am sneaking of.

Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of

the Agency?

A
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No.

Was he ever a contract employee?
No.
4

Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency?

No.

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i A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
7h
i Q And what is the volume of that material?
3 i i
‘ ; i A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee
[
9 | . . '

. called for them the other dav after the article in the paper, |;

: { . :
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I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and:
+ i they returned them Monday afternoon. |
| ; ‘

3 124 Q Do you know who examined those files? |

fas! | |

. “| A No, I don't.

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143 .

5 aan Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts |
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ws i the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct?

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3 19 i narcotics traffic?

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3 £9 i A Recently it has been. i

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3 26 | A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami

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Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an
established contact? .

A No manner.

Q Do they have any -- do they periodically seek to
collect information from Mr. Sturgis?

A I can't speak to that but the records that we have
don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact
somebody in that context, Knowing that there is a 201 file
on Sturgis, they- would have to coordinate with the Latin

American Division before they did anything since we do hold

the file.
Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?
A A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any

information relating to an individual appearing in the press

’

-as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.

Qo Personnel or personality file?
A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.
Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection

or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?
A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they cdo know
each other. They have to know each other from their days

in Cuba.

9 Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- |

pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?

A No. AS I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961,

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HWY 50955 Docld: 32203851

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I guess, and he yas in our maritime activities. He was a

16

and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run,

|

boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations
f
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sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never enjaged

in

any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever

do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that be
° \
to the Agency.

Q When Martinez would run such an operation or ca

a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with put

Page 19 f®EP REP

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together his own crew?

A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a
Case Officer operating either out of the -- probably out of |
the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have |
some people in thef ibase. But he, Martinez, would recei
his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. :

Q Sa it is likely that he could have broucht Sturais
along on any of these operations?

A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I whs
trying to think of, Chief of Station,

Q . And that would be for a period of time between
Shackley and |

A Yes. |

Q | 1964 to 1966?

A Something like that.

Q Would you describe briefly for me the nature of tne

SECRET

17

activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
; YOur ~~ and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during

your 9-year tenure with those grouos.

Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board

intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary

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operations. Were these operations run out of southern

the country that participated in these activities?

.
activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about

the breadth of the thing.

Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?

Right.

Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary

Right.
And in particular out of the Miami Station?
Yes.

Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of

Not to my knowledge.

Were there any southern harbors other than Miami

that were used in these activities?

Were there any other bases in that area of the

| country that were utilized in these operations?

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HY 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 21 GF? 8 gm ey Ig ee

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HW 50955 Docld: 32203451 Page 22

[ @ ; SECRET

2° 1
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z * “ 9 At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi ti:
2 2. |
a ~ in Miami? Do you have any idea?
pos |
= a A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is
3 :
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probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards a j
“ military people. i
© Q You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert ~
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type of thing. |
Q These were what you considered to be covert operation
A Yes, covert action. : :
{
9 Now, this is what you were referring to, legal-
type operations? |
A Yes. :
Q You used legal process to harass Castro. |
A Yes. |
Q What other types of harassment activities did. you
run that would fall under this covert action category? |
A Well -- |
Q Would economic warfare be -- :
A That was sort of something separate unto itself.
This was -- the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a

decision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockaus.

Q What special group is that?

A It is now called the Forty Committee.
Q Is that 302 Committee?
A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all,

it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then
it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between
there and now it is the Forty Committee.

Q All right. We will return to that a little bit
later, but what other types of harassment were vou runnina

against Castro --

HW 50955 poora:32z03451 Page 24 SterorT

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a regulations of the Treasury, Department, the Trading with the
18 Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of.
rol f
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Q 20 I guess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally
5 3) . . .
3 ee U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of ;
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HW 50955 vocra: 3220451 Page 25 2@etfaeT

B 7 7 SECRE | 23

executives of these American. companies and ask them to tell
their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts |

: and the other things that Castro might need. We had the

Prone (Arend 207] 444-GO00

Department of Commerce -~- we identified 600 of the major U.S.

companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.

We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600
N

manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying

any spare parts to the Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated

effort to really isolate them.
Q All right. And that is what you were referring to

- as moral suasion?

A Yes.

'
Na

Q Anything else in that category? a

WARD & PAULL

ar A Not really. None that I can think of.

ne Q Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign

Tr

. companies? , :

A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,

21 4 Q Now, did you attemot to reach any other sources of

, supply?

Zo 4 A Well, we also had wnat we call a preemptive purchasing

@

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410 Forst Sireet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
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aot particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans
i
BW 50955 Docld:32203¢51 Page 26 a8 Ont cite ‘pute, eo ean

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24
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5 i; Q Would thas then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic +-
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& :
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9 |
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| A Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased
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| |
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16 | | '

her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical
‘commodity. Bright Stock can be -- oh, it is almost like tar,

melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this

|
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g | Q Do you know of any sales of such materials that
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HW 50955 Docld:32203451 Page 27 LEAS Sw “

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2g . 9 In addition to preemptive buying were there anv |
® i other actions taken by this group with réspecst to sources of
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« Department, and [ would assume the Special Group, we had
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“i the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des.
| |
3 12 and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this.
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a ; A But you must remember that these American -- ,
earn
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1¢ : A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacture:
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3 el « fide business. These things were transshipped through two
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rd eo | Q You referred to some extra-legal activities. :
i Hl !
2 £4 A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what
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HW 50955 Docid:32203§51 Page 28

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5 4
| Q This was illegal activities? Is that what you are
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9 ;
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lo}

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law, the laws of the United States?

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3 “* A I would have to go back and review the thing. -
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&
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aan A I would think probably down aa
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. “| Q Would it be possible to obtain that material sore
18
“4 time during the lunch hour?
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Q 20 Q Well, is there some place in the building where
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, = “” A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been snijppe’.
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Q What category of activity would we be talking abo."
BW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 29

SECRET

4 27
a
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Bt i when we refer to extra-legal activities? |
z 2 4
a i A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't
é BY .
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o '
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. , parts of the program that we were involved in.
5 il
i I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might!
e | a *
; tell me what that is.
7 | |
{ Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to
3 |
‘ | come back to that. ;
9 | -
‘ A. All right.
15 ; ‘
t Q Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal
17
@ a | activities that were run against Castro? |
if
19; {
3 +6 A Well, the people that would be knowledgeable are
a
13 . ;
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z 141 the economic program. |
ae Q Well, these are activities that were run in connectir.
~" j) with the economic program?
aan A Yes.
1
1343 . oo : .
we} Q We talked about media placement during this nine-
3 (ae year period. To what are you referring when you refer to :
en | |
q “~ | media placement?
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2 en | A Well, Stories or news items that perhaps our.
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= ©“ | propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers
© ‘ od | ~o
; z ze | and magazines throughout the world.
a i
¢ 24 i Q Would this also include broadcasts over radio
2 |
. aD | stations?

HW 50955 Docld:32203951 Page 30

6 S8CRET 23

z
¢ Xx Oh, yos. Radio is a very big part of it.
a : QO Now, were any of these newSpapers or magazines
2 published within the United States?
>
° A «Not to my knowledge, no.
£
2 These were essentially foreign publications?
A Yes.
ane
‘5 O- Were any of them published in the Cuban community
i in Miami?
é q
Q08 . : os :
i A No. The intent was to get world opinion against
: Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States. —~
/ ui
& DOH Q What about the radio broadcasts? How were those
- 3 le nandled?
f |
: an A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?
ct P
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5 | 9 Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations
aa were involved. Was there more than one radio station?
aan A No. We only had the one radio station but we did
ee contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.
i.
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| Q For broadcasts to what areas?
ll
3 ~2 A For broadcasts to Havana.
9
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: I
HW 50955 vocra:a2z0451 Page 31 SECRET


Prone (Arca 2L2) 944-6000

430 Farst Street, §.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003

WARD & PAUL

25

HW 50955 Docld: 3220381 Page 32

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29
_ But the intention was to reach Cuba.

A Reach Cuba.

Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to
as Swan. Were tnere others?

A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
Miami. I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,
I- think,§

Q Where was Radio Swan located?

A On Swan Island. -

io) Where is Swan Island? -

A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras. ‘

Q ‘As far as you can recall, were there any other

radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?

A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
I recall right now.

Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or qroups
affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American
public to support those propaganda activities?

A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of
thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.

Q Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were
run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?

A Oh, yes.

Q Was anything of that nature done in connection with

Ce ER A FO, ED

@ i SECRET | 40

'
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8 :
2 “+ Cuban propaganda?
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3 “ ; A Not to my knowledge.
3. ll
¢ an Q And that would include both the publications and the
2 | | !
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fi
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ci Q Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of
7 | moments. Could you describe for me briefly the type of a
if
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| ;
‘ |
9 i A Well, first of ail, we wanted to denigrate the ;
: 1°) regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We
ll ii worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in :
1
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15 that, and we couldn't ‘understand why. So we kept -- Fidel kept |
1 !
146 | saying that he had such a poor crop and this type of thing ani
Us ! we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop peciuse
12a || some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttin
|
- 19 | this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a cay,
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J | . ‘
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real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.
It was this type of thing that obviously he was
trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any;
money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we dida te!
want him to get the exchange, So it was those types of
activities. . oe
Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. i
companies enlisted in that effort?

A on, yes.

2 In what manner did you use U.S. companies and
businessmen?

A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great
Many -- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the

American community, by American bankers, and obviously they
lost. everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the
lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, tnis
type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 tarset. vr ct
was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.

Q What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain fro
these businessmen?

A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you
know, the market conditions were, why the price was rising, if
we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would
happen to the market price. This type of thing.

Q They were used as consultants,basically.

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A They were used as consultants, basically, yes.
ae) We have spoken about the investment American business
had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American

organized crime --

A No. :
Q -~ had considerable investment in Cuba? °
A No..Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in

Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.

9 The casinos were run -- |
A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force
during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this

type of thing.

Q I understand that. It was fairly wellknown. |
A It was a criminal element. | |
Q The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana. |
A Right.
Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist

the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner

whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime?

A No.

Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?

A Oh, yes.

Q When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?

A Well, I guess it was w- it seems to me it was either

Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number

Page 35 LePaty

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* x Yes, as I recall. |
~ 3 Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana?
J |
‘ “4 A No. I have heard that name but I don't know where. :
: i
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i. Q In connection with -- |
i |
8 | A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
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9 Q In connection with the casinos or -- !
. . 7 :
a! A No !
1
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7 ro |
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16 i of that whatsoever.
q !
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16 | of that type --
1
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A Well, we used all-source information to find out whet

his commercial dealings were. nen we would see -- well, for
instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a source owned

by the General Services Administration, finally got back into
production and nickel, of course, and still is -- was in short

who was :

the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control
people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |
iW exports coming into the United States? So thev Looke.i

|
into the thing and indeed they did. |

Q Who owned the mine? !

i

. . |

A The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it |
over.
.

Q I see. !

A General Services Administration. And it vas leased

out for operation. But the ownership rested with the

Government.

So the Treasury simoly made the provide a
Certificate of Origin for che nickel that went in -- they
export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives
and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless

steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply

-- Treasury simply said you can't import any more into this

Page 37 SECRET .

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country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter
of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in

New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it

Phone (Area 202) 644-6000

around. Eventually, over a period of months,§

found other sources and export privileges to the United States

|
1 at
| were restored,
9 fa :
i You know, it is -- you just -- any time you raise ;
8 |
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i simple. .
: 9 | ‘
~ @) Were there any other instances that you can recall

of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of

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5 :
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.
7+ ; . . .
15 | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. i
| .
.
16 i (Discussion off the record.)
Ae BY MR. MANFREDI:
|
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18: 9 When we broke for a moment we were discussing other
! ; !
3 ig tt instances where tne Agency has enlisted the support of Anericar
Z | :
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C H 1
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they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's

representatives around the world if they got any orders from

|

the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.

We; did-the same taing with --
Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was
)

compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency? .
A No.
Q Were they compensated for the loss of business

involved in that, activity?

A No. No.

0) I take it, you received similar cooperation fron
other companies.

A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.

Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in
that manner?

A No. Not a one.

Q Were there any legal sanctions threatened agains’ in:
companies?

A No. No.

Q Were there any sanctions that could have been bre aii

to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with
Cuba?

A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with
Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this country...

anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of tn2

HW 50955 pocta: 32203451 Page 39 CeroecT

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7! | |
i Q Other than insuring that these companies refused |
ul |
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@ . \ A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would |
2 le | receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they |
4
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3 1S | received it from Cuba asking for publications and this type :
« | |
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25 | to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in |
16 | some instances they might call me and I would just give them
a
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il - ; i
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! . {
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¢ £9 i A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one
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government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but

51 Page 40 SECRET

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: 3 Q Did you identify yourself-.as CIA -- |
° A Yes.
s
Q ~- in dealings with these companies? :
wo A Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even .
. ‘ :
the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all. |
; Q Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started
but didn't really discuss that in any depth.
, What kind of paramilitary operations were run
. !
@ “| against Cuba by the CIA?
a5 ili .
: ney A Maritime operations.
a , HI {
: aa Q Is that the extent of it?
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i? i Q Leaflet drops?
|
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i ; i
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o Ht i
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4 ail
a 2 £5 A Yes.
5 ;
3 a4 | Q Aerial photography, and so forth.
2 i
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i

HW 50955 Docld: 32203951 Page 41 Cr AY Se

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z ; ; r@) And those were run out of the United States?
g oot
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; i @) Can you think of anvthing, any other type of para-
QR
» military activity other than maritime operations.
” A No. I really can't, no.
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i Q Am I correct that those operations were manned
~ i by CIA contract employees?
s |
. h A Right.
oa.
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1
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146
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~ i that probably down fae Deut i Teadal mg Station Ae
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4
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a oa i
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5 _|
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A I would think probably the major portion of it was |

conducted within the United States. !
Q. considered within the United

States. |

A Oh, yes. ;

Qo Or were there any locations where it was conducted :

outside the United States? |

A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not |

to my knowledge.” I just don't know, I just don't recall
but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done

domestically.

Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within

this category of maritime operations?
A Well, the infiltration operations, infiltrating

agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage

raids. That is about the extent of it.

Q Now, when did these operations commence? ‘as it :
shortly after the Bay of Pigs?

A TI would -- I think these operations were probaly
at their height during the period about 1963 through, say, |
1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in Decerber |
1968, something like that. : {

Q . Why was the progran terminated?

A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provid~
‘N

ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,

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41

it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
' gettiny wrapped up. We were -- we just felt that the return

wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.

You say the agents were getting wrapped up.
Yes.
What do you mean by that?

When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify

him and capture him.

These various types of paramilitary operations that

were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the

co

Every operation received a specific approval fro-~

the Forty Committee.

In advance?
In advance.

Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- fer

initiating such an operation?

A

Q

A

Well, normally in the case of an infil or an oxf:1.

or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache.

You are referring to a cache of arms.

A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,

whatever they might need. If we decided that we should rave

one of these operations and the request would go from here

over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty

Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very

Page 44

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10 | thing was coordinated.
44h
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q H ,
3 12 | that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?
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« 13 | A No.
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25 ; A You are not talking about a very big volume of
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2 19 {. they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.
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Cc
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3 £2 | A I have seen that.
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3 4 | A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He
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Docld:32903851 Page 45

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: ~ tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one |
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3
& : see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore

“ \
5° before you go. So he may have considered chat all these train- |
6 ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici- :
7 ; pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.
7
: 8 Q Now, from what specific locations were these !
; 9 operations launched? :
16 i A They were mostly launched from Reg
iH , , ‘
& ; 12 rf Q Any other locations?
|
2 ie A Not to my knowledge.
< q
< 29 ' Q Now, would you describe for me the kind of hit and
Q
: is : run sabotage operations that were conducted?
yf .
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af . .
16 | the Texaco refinery. |
~ i Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?
iF
is A | What used to be the Texaco refinery. |
2 Lg i" MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
2 '
: re | (Discussion off the record.)
3 el ‘THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
z i . }
3 22 i went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery. |
wi i
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: 26 | type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. Tt)
3 25 | was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was |
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HW 50955 Docta: 32203851 Page 46 Creer Pwr

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: * a successful operation. By that, I mean tney didn't do as
5
3 ° much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out
: ; 3 because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type
3 % of operation that we did.
5 : As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn |
! :
é : some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we
7 ; did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and |
8 exfiltrations. a |
; 9 Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo? |
16 A Not to my knowledge.
il Q Was it impractical to use the base there for --
2 1lé A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that |
‘ 13 ! I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him: |
o H 1
: 14! back. He wouldn't walk. |
1g MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
16 (Discussion off the record.) |
i
u7 i. MR. MANFREDI: bac on the record.
ié BY MR. MANFREDI:
:
19 i Q Are there any other categories of sabotage{#
26 Mother than what you have just described?
Pal A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage |
22 : kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained

i
23 sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down |

crank cases. Things of this nature.

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25 One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage

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HY 50955 Docld: 32203051 Page 47 of ot 2m iF, oe aR

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2 i | The railroad system was in total disaster. The |
. . {
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: 15 i Soviets had such a long loyistics line, supply line, plus
& i {
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3 14 4 the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment
Ht . 4
25 | because they were used to good American equipment. And these
t
1é | were principal targets that we were trying to get to.
f
af i Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of
i.
‘1s i any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run
2 lg ; from a base in the United States?
& a
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C £0 jl A No.
G i
3 al i 9 I know there has been some paramilitary traininy
¢
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oe H
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) < Bo | A Oh, yes..:
g
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2 Eo G In connection with other operations.
3
> 25 A Oh, sure.

\ aw 50955 pocra: 3220361 Page 48 SECRET

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! S203 ET 46
5
“ Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that
a yy j
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3 u i
4 ee . . :
~ Fi A Wo. ‘
z a : ;
nor Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unicgus
» Situation.
ei A . As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.
° i Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in
, 5 | Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as
|
I .
oman : : : .
. ° i the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.
aa A That is right.
|
: 7 I : : :
@ ii v Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
a
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oy i .
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‘ 8 i
I A Not to my knowledge, no.
3 -
i Q None of them ~- were any of them in competition with
“~“". firms in that area?
syd
“ii A These are probably what we would cal :
5 12 |
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a ; these operations?
F
ao A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as |
ood
2 19 1" rt told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
oe |
““ | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
5 22h . : : . :
3 “+ i; under such strict operational discipline
z i :
2 oe , Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He . ‘
a .{
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& F
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2 fF
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‘ if he got some time off.
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6) I see. So some of these boats and personnel were

actually stationed full-time §f

A On, yes. Oh, Sure. }

Q Were there any operations run out of the United

States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
Sugar or anything of that sort?
A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the |

Puerto Rican thing?

A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind.

Would you describe that for me?
A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of

opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar

to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to

it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or

something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.

In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
drydock or wherever it was, they had to remove the sugar and
put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came |
up with a plan to try to widen the rift between ~~ there was
a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to
put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the

individual, and some of this was done. And then when it

leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar

firm buy it back from the Soviets.
Page 51 ,

row]

Phone (Area 202) 444-6000

4

WARD & PAUL
be
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AlO First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 200043
Lay)
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HW 50955 Docld: 32203051

SECRET a

49
2 Bought it back from the Soviets? |
A Yes. |
i
MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
i
(Discussion off the record.) i
MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record, .
BY MR. MANFREDI: :
i
Q Are there any other operations in which crops were ‘
1
~- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba? i
A No. No. i
Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products?
A In Cuban products? {
16] Yes.
A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in

those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.

|

'

The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total

chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have

anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.!

There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around
with this big plan ~-- of course, there were a number of

experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.
|
I forget -- several other European and American companies that

had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment-|

ing with the, you know, cross~breeding and this type of thing.
Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to |

Canada, and paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it

age

fol

Phone (Area 202) 944-6000

WARD & PAUL
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410 First Street, S.E., Wastington, O.C. 20003
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on an old Cuban Airways airolane. The damn airplane few too

high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in

Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin

and keeping the tamperature at a certain point and this type

of thing.

So he was helping us all along the line and

this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this

type of. thing.

But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we

didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade

and cut off his sources of supply.

Q

A

Q

A

Q

When was the Miami Station established?
As a station?
Yes.

I think in September 1961.

And that was several years before you became involved

in Cuban matters?

A

Q

Yes.

Do you know of any other facilities of that nature

within the United States, Agency facilities?

A

Q

A

Q

A

You mean, targeted against the opposition?
Yes.

A station as such?

Yes.

No. You have some communications facilities that

you really call stations because here again, they are not

Page 53

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directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of

SECRET 51

overseas communications.

.@)
Office of
A

Q

Of course, we hav bases and DCD offices and

Security officers, and so forth.

Right.

But I am talking about actual stations.
Operating stations, no. ‘
This is the only such station in the United States

you know, is that correct?

Right.

And was this station established to deal primarily.

with Cuban activities?

A Yes.

Q Cuban-related matters?

A With Cuba, period.

Q Did it have, when it was established, any other
responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activ. ‘ic

A Not to my knowledge.

Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?

A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and otner

countries in the Hemisphere.

Q

When you joined the group dealing with Cuban

activities, what was the size or the number of personne:

attached to that Station?

A

To that Station? Well, the Station had probably 4

oo ee et eS ye RP

we

52
3
E ~ ‘ couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
& 24
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9 4 :
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* : Obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its i
”
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il 4
“oy Q Full-time Agency people?
7 !
i A No, no. ;
i |
8 : . ;
‘ | Q Combination of contract and ~~ |
- :
a A And full-time, yes. A regular employee we call a sta:
hare) H ‘
“0 employee. i
re \
@ ii | Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract |
ai
i 1é 4 people? |
: | |
a 15 i A Yes. !
t |
2 4 | Q Even though he was located ft |
} ae
a) I: 1
25 | A Oh, yes.
ut , i
ol :
ae i Q And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
‘Miami? .Physical facilities.
|
Well, they were located {

if : -
243
i °

410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003

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HW 50955 Docld: 32203861 Page 55


; SECRET .

33

What was the cover?

Prone (Area 202) 444-6000

; Q Engaging in any business?

: "
A No.
x . -
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; Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,
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activities. Funded --

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rel il 4 ° i
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‘ \
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il
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ar -
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4 !
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19 And this particular Station, then, was under the

’ supervision of the group we have been discussing?

Phone (Area 202} 5944-6000

Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division. .

i
God = . . . .
: A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations. ;
, i
° ; Q. When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume
t o t
5 A - : a + . . »
“ 1! yesponsibilities for the Miami Station?
i Pp
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\ ° / A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the
ni |
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:

WARD & PAUL

7
Lv Q When you joined the group in 1963, what functions
ad were being performed by the Miami Station?
i i
; n) : A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I
zo think I have lined them out at one time -- collection of |
} positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this |
|

type of thing. Covert action.

Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in

410 karst Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003

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the deposition? |

25 A Yes.
HY 50955 Docld:32203391 Page 57

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Q Which of these activities, if any of them were
+ i
actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami? |
;
A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably:

'
counterintelligence.
: i

0 So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence ©

activities in the Miami arca?
A Yes, sir. : !

Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter-

intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting
in that area or was conducting in the area at that time?

A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as 1
recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent tha

came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in with a

ce ae eee owl Cetera amemime

t :
number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a reccp-

tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.

we did, too. Our people from the DDO

i
i
preliminary interrcsgation of these people they had to fill !
out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, biographic-

type thing. These forms would be passed to our people who woul.

look at the forms and based on previous experience or what

they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they

might have some information of intelligence value, they would

reinterrogate them.

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It was in this manner that this gal came to our
knowledye. We surveilled her for a long time and determined '

that obviously she was receiving messages and she was !

sending messages. So along with the Bureau we put a surveillar-

‘on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and

indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 0 clock
or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found

it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that
was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved
in. |

Q. Were there many activities of that type?

A, Not really. You have got to remember that the
Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a larce
squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-
thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of
hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty reda-
tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously fron --
in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reportin?
tosCase Officers and they would report on things in the
community, of people they thought were suspect and this type
of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved
in CI activity.

Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in C!

HW 50955 Docld: 322034851 Page 59 om on am oo, wen onee

Phone {Area 202) 541-6000

‘. A Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot
5
| O£ the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section
Gu . - ;
' of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is
te 1 .
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8 } .
* the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers
2 | :
j| from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a
ane) i
relationship there that had gone over a period of years
"
; Ll
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4 12 |
3 MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.
a iH
8 Le | :
a (Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of
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57

. . i
activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-

a whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability

'

“CLENNEING mal 1 Rall gle Fons
fig mba . SEGRE: 59
3 APTERNOON SESSION
: |
2 Thereupon, :
8 |
“ t
3 WILLIM! C, STURBITTS,
Z |
2 called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA
; .
= Activities, and having been first dulv sworn hy the Notary
Public, was examined and testified as follows: ' “
iy
yo EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'é@) !
7 : i
i
am BY MR. MANFRENTI: - . . |
; © |
5 * 0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the |
vad Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the!
1: "largest CIA station in the world? ;
=_- : i
: . !
vail A The largest CIA station in the world. !
5 ~~ y
< » 0 At its height?
8 134
a 4 : . :
« we A. Nothing comes anyplace close to it. i
z an , .
2 ¢ I wonder if vou could describe brieflv for the record:
a0 4 ;
4 - roa
_. ) What the @MMOESy were.
: A. Well, the@MPfeRS§ were Cuban a Cuban intellicaence
a
_. } organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
we
i overall contingency oDlan that US Government had. Should Castro |
Vp
2 --
3 ever be overthrown, these neonle would be the nucleus to qo ints
| Cuba and form a new Ministrv of the Interior.
214i .
; - 0 Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
ee" .

for Security Agency?

A Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of

Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and

410 Farsi Sircet, $.£., Washington, O.C.

25 |
4

HW 50955! DocId: 32203851 Page 61 a et am em,

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° :
8 : 0. And thease neonle ware Cuban exiles?

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z Puen A _Cuban oniles,
@ H i
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é eo 0. How large an outfit were the Qalig: ;
¢ iH . H
= 7 A Well, at one time -- I can qive vou the exact Figures

but I know it well exceeded over 199, prohably closer to --

FS : 0. Go ahead, .
.
q ot A. Probablv closer to 159, something like that.
A
4 - ; - oy:
& 4 0, Now, would that 159 persons he included within the
é if
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° { . :
1D r A No.
@ | 0. That was over and above the personnel of the “iami
aan ;
4h . {
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4 am }
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‘ 13 | A Right.
; :
< - i 0. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?
3 igh ;
aa A. Right, WELL, let me -- these people really were -- -
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A That is right.
ia] And was training provided then bv the Aqenev? oa
. t

0 Oh, ves.
i

sos . '

A. Yon said the smaller group of the two qrouns that maco

up theGiigas} conducted the interrogations, ts that correct?

rz Right. ; oO ”
x . ; . . .
0. When vou speak of interrogations, are vou referring ta
debriefings?
A, tT am referring to cehriefines of newly arrived exiles ~

or perhaps exiles that had heen in the country whon during their

time here had accuired new information.

ra) How were those -- how and where were those debriefing
1
conducted?
A Well, normally the debriefinds were conducted at Ona ;
Loca,
!
re That is the Air fase?
A. That is the old Airc Base there but that 1s vere to

reception center was for all the Cuban refucees comins in. ,

Sometimes if there was qoindg to be a lengtnv debriefing, we had :
a residence which we rented and the interior was chanted into
small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, Sit then
down, under controlled coneaitions,and debrief them withonr anv |

interference and this tvne of thing.

0. For how lonq a neriod did these debriefings aq on? ‘

a

8 ‘ SECRET 1
ce Beem J :
8 A, You meer in terms of vears? ;
. : i
5
g m3 & Yes. '
z ae A. Well, I would think that I would vrobably sav fron
= FF : H
€ ' . . . gs :
2 , » about 1952, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --  :
. we relied principally on the airlift for the people comind out
C and whan the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut of
I ‘
7 + about, I. quess about 1979 or '71, in that timeframe -- :
4 i
, at a. I see,
; . .
9 i A. ~~ that stonned tne flow of the refucees, so we just |
4 . : a
jo | terminated that part of the activity.
;
ty ‘ . . . . . : .
@ aq d 0. Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that care ;
m4 |
to, - oa ; : aera :
-o | in in the airlift, did the smailer group of {MWe have anv other
a be i .
3 u
é 12 | intelliqence gathering functions --.
é aw}
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< te F A, NO.
a4 0. In the community?
ao
_ A A Well, I can't qive vou a real ves or no to that. :
_. §, would suppose that there is an outside possibility thes “10°:
a! i ;
i have been used to debrief peonle within the community, within
Lo | b - .
. ;. the Cuban community, but we had in the orqanization -- ail tanec:
7 4 .
é _' people were Cuban with the exception of we had what we call an
G Eo 4
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3 Ct .
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2 | but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Srficer
= 25 | :

HW 40955 Docld: 32203851 Page 64

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Phone (Arca 202) 544-6000

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sourse, if these people went out and did something on

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See Ret 62

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tf -- you know what thev are doing during their eight or
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capacity, I should sav?

A.

| Standard debriefing form that covered questions of intellicencs

0.

; smaller broup of
4

A,

Page 65

No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a

i interest or a battle, vou know, anvthing -- economic questions,
i morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -- wher
these neonle were cebriefed and the debriefer wrete cm th

i report, it would be sent from the Gers) over to the Sration.

If the debriefing report contained something of ros.tive

|. intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
4

i Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or mav not jot
down some additional requirements and ask that that person he

i racontacted and askea snecific questions.

Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this

Moon Go for the Agencv in the Miami area?

bg
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This was their prime purnose.

CRet 63

6 Mor an!
he a Se :
: al How larqa was that ‘particular qroun? i
|
Oo qh. Oh, there were only ahout, I would say at the outsice,

To think there were about five Jeabriefers with the support peaopi.

!

which vco1ld he secretaries, translators, strictly adninistrativs

Poone (Area 202) 644-6000

z types. I dontt think there were more than probably 1? ar 15

€ in that croup, if there were that manv. *

ues M2, MAMPREDI: Off the record.

a | (O7f the record discussion) ;
s i

Gs BY CIR. MANFRET: Back on the record,

0. Before we move on to further discussion of the @aifers? 7

21 2 could vou brieflv describe for me what role the CIA nlavs in

stay overniqht or stav several davs, HFN would put them un anc

+5 ) vesettling Cuban enigres? ; , {
« if : |
a veh A CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emicres.
a 23 8 : : :
< oat 0. What Agency is charced with that responsibility? '
3 aaa
aa A Health, Sducation and Welfare.
~o i
ss : 0. Noes CIA mlav anv role in that process? :
at A We mav assist if we are asked bunk the idea of the ae
ot
| airlift was having relatives here for somebodv to claim vou when
aan
4 i you came in so von wouldn't become a ward of the State of the
3 ar
R _. | Government, and nornally when. these refuqees came in, they were
¥ ee
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z .. | processed through the Center and then they had a place down on |
2 i.
g ee Biscavne Boulevard thev called Freedom House and this was, of
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. a course, all run by HEW, and they ~~ if need he and thev had to
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HW 50955 Docld:32203851 Page 66 OF ome sm ee om emt

7 SzERST -
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Then as soon «a thev could, of course, thev would move thon

a to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the

we

- | relatives were, this cvne of thing, and we had nothing to do

Prone (Area 202) 944-6000

with that whatsoever.

RO 0. Turning bac!: to the larcer of the

two grouns, what was tne name of that qdrono aqain? -

ns

2 0 We can call them @e@NSiay for shor?
‘ ~ . :
a A Really, thev are hoth -- the only reason we separated
ic 2 the two groups was for security because we had one group housed |
+, ; Over here and the smailer groun was over here. Obviously we
daw!
te i couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so,
3 “eh
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é Lz | that is why we took che smaller establishnant Gyo oie
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we {| 0 Okay. What activities was the larqer groun engaqed :
15 3 ;
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. A. WRIL, the larger srevin was enqrided in tre collectio:.
-_ i
a i of intelligence. They comniled dossiers on the principals
arr ‘
, inside Cuha. Thev carded -- thev kept card files on every
bag ak * i
S _. | refugee that came throudh the reception center. Thev vrovided ---
: ae .
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: 2 they did da economic and social renorting. They put out a
6 Dr k .
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7 295 | ;

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HW 50955 Docld: 32203451 Page 67

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0. Well, tage, were coing clandestine collections as wel

weren't thev?
A. I don't know if vou could call it clangestine.
3

did you have in mind?

0. Well, would thev run aqents. in the community?

A Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban

community, yes. .-

0 And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?

A. WELL, I call that human resources.

0. All right. Where are these. files now?

A, They are in the Headquarters here. A great mary

wrath

them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We

went down there several vears ago just looking through the fii

to see what kind of shape thev were in and thev had such

‘

reat

information for intellinqence value in there as a picture o: a

gal who might be the daudhter of a Cuban refuqee who just won

files and took out that material, von know, which just ‘lidn'!

have any pertinancy at all.

0. How are the files orqanized? You indicated hefore

there is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?

A ©) ORight.

Q. Are there soft cover files as well?

51 Page 66 Cr ery ke

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A Yes.
0 For eacn
A NO. Hoc

recall, those cara

we had I quess the

cor ane
Sekt 66

Cuban refuqesa?
for eacn Cuvan refucee. f£ think, as [

Tiles were up in the millige-ns and I forqec,

manilla Zilies, probabiv went into che tens

of thousands, I would think.

‘

0. How, is there anv way to determine from those files

which of those exii

es have hecome United States citizens?

A No way...
O° Has there been anv effort to make such a determina-
tion?

A We made an effort at one time but this -- VOU Can

become nationalized out in California and vour reeerd of

“nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washinston sr

two years. That is how far thev are behind.

0. So I take it --

A So there

there is a central

is no ce.trcal index vou can qo to. Toth,

index vou can go to but it is not curren:

0 I take it, then, that there is a rossibilityv tharos:

CIA has some files

in Miari or here in Lanaqlev on Cupans wis

are now American citizens?

A Absolutely true.
0. Now, are anv of those Files likely to contain

derogatory information about the individuals involved?

A Well, no.

One of the things these neonle da, of

Poone (Area 202) 544-6000

we

WAKO & PAUL
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20003

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BLO Facet Stecet, S.E., Washington, O.C.

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HY 450955 Docld: 32203851 Page TO

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10 sO Rat 67

course, ve had tavcets for recruitment. It could range fran

anythin: from a fics’ mate, a captain or chief endineer of a

Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people
as possible recruitments, for possible recrnitment,we would ask

that al! the information on that individual be assembled so that
we coulc do a complete target study -- habits, you know,

\ .

everything right doim the line. In case of some of the more.
important ones, of course, we had nsvchological studies prepared
where we had enough information. Rut this is one of the things .
these pecple did. If we said we want everything vou have on the
first mate of the -- one of the Cuban ships, then they woul

start looking through the papers or anything else to come un

with anvthing thev could on what the guy's current activities

are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.

a Well, the

ANOMS) were going to be the intellicence
service of Cuba?
A. Right.

0. And thev obviously were going to perform sone funcnion

“in addition. to recruitment of aqents?

A. Right.

0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence,
gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of tha
traditional skills, is that correct?

AL That is about ridht.

0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for

st SECRET ce |

: 1 i ourposes other than recruitment?
: 2 A, Well -~
i 3 0. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these |
E 4 files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible |
5 || internal security problem? |
6 | A. No. No. They didn't keep those types of files. We |
A
‘ 7 would simply task them with through your sources what do you |
8 have on so and so. They would not be told the reason why we .
9 | wanted the information on anybody. |
@ | 10 a Well, I guess with several million fiels or several
ll million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
; 12 make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
- i 13 those files?
: 14 A Well, that is right.
15 0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ash
16 you this. I trust thet there is the possibility that some of |
o these files do contain what you in the trade refer to as “en
1a] tory information? |
; 19 A I would assume so. . i
g 20 Q And that so much of them may -~ some of the subjects
\ v . .
2 21 of those files mav now be American citizens? |
. @ : 22 A Right. |
“ 23 And finally I take it that no effort has been made to |
f 4 | wy study that ‘particular situation? .

2
HW 50955: Dogld:322038

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ee - an . oe 2 sa

(a2 SECRET | 60

. |
|
8 1 You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel, |
= i :
rc Hf , t
g 2 | whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their !
% |
g 3 names turn up on manifests and this type of thing. Well, these
5 .
z ral | are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards
li |
5 | were all transferred hack here in Miami, we did go through them
h : .
6 | at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
t
a if
7 what the machine svstem had to see if there was updated informa-
8 | tion in the machine System that would show that this quy had
9 become a naturalized citizen, and it didn*t work out. So -- ;
@ 10 0. Excuse me, off the record.
|
i
11 (Off the record discussion) i
|
12 MR. MANFREDI: | Back on the record.
a
3
z BY MR, MANFREDI:
8 13 |
a ‘
z 14 | 0. I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind
2 : .
15 where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are |
16 | presently here in Washington? |
q
!
7 A The cards and what is left of the files,
. 1
1a 0. That is the soft cover files? |
. ; |
! A. Yes.
Loa 19 | |
oo
8 0 And --
¥ 20 :
G
; Z 21 A. I assume they are either here or down at the -
: a. t
o
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@ é Records Center,
z 22
a | 0. And where is the computer system?
Ff
er: 24 A. You mean our machine system? We have --
HW 50955 Hocld:32209851 Page 72 —..

HW 50955

Pnone (Area 202) 444-G000

WARD & PAUL

\ Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003

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Did th

SECRET 70

information on the cards?

Right down on the third floor.
That is not tte hvdro system?
Oh, no, no,

This is a separate --

This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division

particular system.
What kind of records -- strike that,

are still in existence, aren't thev?

No.

T thought they were going out in June.

Well, okav., Thev are on the hooks until June.

I see.

But they have all been let qo. They were let go --
all given six months termination honuses and told to
job.

No they have anv facilities, physical facilities, in

i Miami at this time?

no.
So there are no records in Miami?

No. No. We broncht all those records back here.

have law enforcement responsibilities

in the Miami community?

i

No. No.

+

ou SECRET ae

‘
i
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:

8 7 : A Hot to mv knowledqe.
5 2 0. What else did thev do, this larger qroup o (mons:
a |
é 3 | was not doing debriefings?
e E ‘ ' A. Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would |
5 send them to other countries, in Europe and within the toni sphere
6 to train some of the local services in those countries. Thev
7 ( served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in
: : 8 listening posts where we had audio --
; 3 , oo Foreign listening posts?
eo :
. 10 | A. Oh, ves, foreign.
nl 0. Any domestic listening posts?
; 12 | A )0)0CUNO, h6ono. |
3 . |
‘ 13 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these nennle? |
: 14 | A. I would assume -- this I cannot answer hecause I real.
1s | don't know. I know that they did a great number of thins tut
16 to my knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance
17 conducted by them.
. 18 | ‘ Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of recor’,
. 19 I don't know where it could he.
; 8 20 . re What intelligence gathering activities did thev
: J
: @ : 21 conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
. : 29 A. One of the big problems we had was within that Cuhan
2
“ 23 community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
; 3

: = i j st Guard
HW 50955. pobla: 322830410 ae? 7YTOUPS and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Gua

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| ° SECRET 72

i

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HW 50955 Degcld: 32203851 Page 75

2 * | agencies in Miami plus the State government enforcement agencies
> 2 | WP the wall ana, of course, I guess it was around -~ the !
2 ° | .
3 5 | covernnent allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
S . t
= t
2 a | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they
i ;
i ; 4
5 started to tighten up.:
1 XN t
6 | I am sure the@AWG@S) were in part responsible for proposing |
' |
’ 9 alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when,
8 | there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these
9 | militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked |
© 16 up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau,
this type of thing. {
11
0 These people were arrested?
2 12
« A Oh, ves.
4 13 !
Qa i
c a Prosecuted? i
3 14 | ;
_. A Not really.
15
4
1s 0 Anv of them American citizens? i
oO
A Not to mv knowledge.
17
0 This would be Alpha 66 tvpe qrouns? :
18 i
A I don't know whether this quy -- well, you know, they :
n 19 *
°
3 are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don't
d 20 ; {
c know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on
3 21 ie .
a : . . .
Fa so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it biq here. |
Fy 22
He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever |
= 23 ; \
F -gerved any time or not I don't know... I know he was convicted
: \
|

> ee ° . ~ ne we

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RET : ”

g I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went
2 2 | to jaul or not.

é i .

g 5 0 Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
2

4 « Castro groups, wnat other intelligence gathering did the (fonsy |

5 « engage in? ,
i:
6 I A, Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence --
fi . . :
’ 7 i I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence interest :
( t
8 at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.’
S | 0 Cubans were?
@ 1c | A The Cuban Government, They couldn't do it very well
“|
7 | on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
koe :
2 | young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat.. And I don't
4 2
oe)
a 12 || -- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to
8 a | -
o H
& rv I identify those people whom we thought would he suspect.
~ 5 i a Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau?
, j A, With the Bureau, ves.
14 |
* a Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
q t
{
0 \ in a better position to do it?
18 |j
A Yes, and lanquage-wise, too, That is always a big
a 19 |!
° 1
3 | factor.
G 20 ;
o 0. And this was conducted through the(MW@rsas
8 aL
@ z A Yes.
3 Ze
uw | Qa How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
- 23} .
5 \ in the community?
1

HW 50955 pobta: 3290498 Page 76


7 ‘ 7 me gti c 74 ;
i, 16 SECRET :
5 ; —
& x would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but thev lid
= 2 | come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to tho
i) te
i ‘|
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g & Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever hanopens
2 ' .
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& 2 | to it because, von iknow, vou just ~= unless vou personally know
a A || 3 ; y |
ij : “|
; 5 i the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, you miqht as
ih
1 ,
4 i well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do,
6 9
‘ 7 ii 0. What other positive intelligence gathering activities
\j |
1 \
. 8 | were they engaging in?
: |
9 A Well, as IT told-vou, one part of them were engaged in!
| |
® | |
19 5
| 0. Where was that done?
|
12 A. Down in Florda, @@somermnmomestccaces
a
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z 8 is: :
2 | .
g 14 A Yes.. |
t
15 | 0. What ere thev @Rineceerisiins
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16 A Well, originally they were set up to assist with the |
|
_ | commo. for the infiltration.
af i
le As we phased down the maritime activities, thev were nadc |
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3 21 |
ao
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3 -
4 23 sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior
6 i
rf | sy TSSUPORIS NteESope cee!
HW 50955 DodId:322648 ha,

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yo SECRET ane

3 : 4 + ; .
8 1 Now, Since thev pnelong to us we could levy ceratin require |
= 2 ments on them if we wanted to, which we did vary infrequently |
i=)
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g 5 because the common interests, -~ we have a common interest in '
2 { — |
2 a ti what@igmghas an interest in ane unless there were one particular
| _
. 5 || operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cuban
‘|:
6 were doing, then we would task our people with that. :
i
’ 9 For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into |
|
. 8 Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then ‘
, |
9 | there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing WAS.
@ 10 But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the
; ; '
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12 || it came back on the air. And this is the type of thing. As
3 - i
3 ; \
z 13 a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200 |
{
: | |
& Cuban troops. -
3 14}
1s MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. -
(Off the record discussion) :
16 . . . ‘
. 1 MR. MANFREDI: Let's qo back on the record.
eS .
BY MR. MANFREDI: .
138
q, Were thef
: a 19 1 }
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S 20 |i
: a A ‘
ah 8 21
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: 3 22
: of which was the United States?-
< 25
: = A No.
HW 50955 Darld:32A6061 Page 78


: SECRET "6
>. A Right,
2 . :
3 0 On the Island?
& } A Right,
g Sy
2 0. Or between the Island and other locations?
a & :
i A, Yes. .
i 0. But not between the Island and the United States?
é = .
7 A No. Let's go off the record on that.
a a
74 : .
. H . .
i (Off the record discussion)
. 8 .
| BY MR, MANFREDI:
9 | .
0. To vour knowledge were theQ@AMGRS§ engaqing in the
1¢ Ho
a
2
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g
a
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3 14 |
i A No.
! 0. Is that their only Gingemeept) facility?
+? A. (Nods affirmative)
-! | 0 Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- s¢*rite
*© | that. No you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, Surveillances,
i
1921
3 ““ | breakins or activities of thqt type other than what te have
i=]
N i)
bs 20 discussed <<
A 1
e a2 | A. No sir.
= ee | -- that were conducted by thefRM@Es>
‘ 23
z | A. No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.
ag
3 24 |}

(age the record discussion)

x

HW 50955 Dobld: 32203061 Page

2 St cam 6 Tote £ 77 :
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¢ 3 BY MR. MANFREDI:
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4 net . i
Sx 4 rs : ny F ;
= 2: 0. I understand that a study of the history of the Ges)
3 _ has been prepared by one of vour members.
< oo} H
~ . it i
$ : A That is right.
z wo |
4 0. What is his name? .
Bo
6 | A. I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last
il 4
’ ' name. The poor guy is dead now anyway. Well, I will just have
PoE i
i
. i to get that for you.
& |
Q What is the title of the study?
9
@ A. The title of the study -- it is part of the historicai
. 1G | .
series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The
La i : ‘
| greece . |
(GREER organization.”
4 12 |
z Q. What is the historical series of the Miami Station? '
13
@ a
z A. What
3 14 |! ;
| we try to do as we go alona, from year to vear, is set aside
ae :
il what is considered to he some of the more siginificant things
16
the station might do or that might occur in the station personae.
17 oa :
i wise, this tvne of thing, and then these things are written.
13 |
il 0. I see.
a 19
8 | A. At intervening periods of time.
GRO a
a 0. When was this particular report prepared(enenAMomsy
» § Bi
© 5 | A I think it was preAared in 1967 or '68.
i 22 |
ul q| 8. It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?
: 23 || .
i 3 : AL Yes.
er: . |
: 7 24 i
HW 50955 DobId:32203851 Page 80  - . ee

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activities

78

It starts back in 1959 when we first started using

this gent..

Q

fh

A.

Q

MR. MANFRENI: On the record.

First started using what?
First started using, I forget what his name was.

Iosee. Is it a chronological study of their activi-

Yes, -
And you have a copy of that in your custody?
Yes.

I would like to see that document. And we will try

and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office.

Okav,

Excuse me just for a minute.

(OFF the record discussion)

ny

BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if you would -- let me ask vou

There have been some allegations in the press that

|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

{

prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents

of the CIA.

Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join

'

us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the

Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing

had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn

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° ; MR, OLSEN: Thank vou, George.
oO 1
° ai " :
é ; BY MR, OLSEN: ;
z D) 4 .
S “
| 0. “Can you begin, since I have not been in on the begin-
< 3 .
g | ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,
a GoW . .
| by giving me ahout a one or two minute resume of what your :
5! -
o t N
' eontacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
6 ;
‘ i withing this country on behalf of the Aqencv?
7 | :
A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff
8B |
which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and th:
; 9
@ oO Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in
vf | |
a variety of intelligence collection and operations.
11 : woe
Q Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?
; 12 |
> A. Desmond Fitzgerald.
| ‘ 13 ae deena
ry , @ And who was his immediate superior?
ee |
A Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was
15
_|| Dick Helms. He was the DEP.
16
Qa Deputy Director for Plans?
17 .
| A. Deptuty Pirector for Plans.
c i
18 | 0 What period of time are we talking ahout now?
3 19 | A, We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.
5 20
G MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
- gal .
@ e (Off the record discussion)
3 ae BY MR. OLSEN:
23
3 Qa So you were not involved in this Special Activities
=

HW 50955 pocta: 3220364 Bagear8Aueine the 1969 to '61 neriod?

st Street, S.E., Washington, O-C. 20003

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WARD & PAUL
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23

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Bocld: 3220:

: SECRET Ro

i
i

0 Or the nreriod leading up to the Bav of Pigs?

A NO. |
i
i 0. And you were not involved in this program at all durins

4
i
‘

the same time that FE. Noward Hunt was involved in it?
as
\ A. No. e!
i a Do vou know what the position was Mr. Hunt occupied in
. |

i connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the

period of 1959 to ‘61?

| A To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert

\
| Action Staff dealing in propaganda.

| 0. Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in
I ;

i this country?

|
A No, Cuban people abroad. i
|

;
Q And what was his connection with the planning for the |

Bay of Pigs?

| A, I would have to review the record to realiv answer

| that. I don’t know.
| Q Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the ‘iami
" i
|| area? |
: A. He commuted quite a bit.
| Q Between Washington and <=
| A. Washington and Miami. |
| a -- and Miami. Muring the period of 1969 and early
I

| ‘612 |

B51 Pag a3 Right.

«BECP E a1
g “. 7 published materials that he was the person who was in charge of
: 2 organizing a political unit amony Cubans in this country which
A 3 would constitute the Cuban qovernment in exile. Do you recall
e HT
2 £ | where that was? \
5 A , That could be quite true.
6 0. Have you reviewed, Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
J
‘ 9 files relating in any wav to the Cuban operations and particu-
. 8 larly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts
t
|
9 between the Agency and [rank Sturgis?
@ | 10 | A. Yes.
Ll | Qa Or Frank Fiorini?
, | A There is no relationship.
i
: ‘ 13 | a Is it vour testimony that the records and files of
: 14 the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
5 | nature with Frank Sturgis?
| A To my knowledge that is true.
17 | Qa I take it from that that you are emphatic in your
£13 testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency?
: 7 A. . Extremely emphatic.
8 90 | Qa And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
J
: 21 he was never a contract aqent of the Agency?
& i A. “Exactly.
3 £2 }
4 23 | 0. Do you know whether he ever served in the capacitv
: 24 of being an informer or informant to the Agency?
= {

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SECRET 2

3 1 | 0. YOu mean a source of --

: 2 i A, Source of information of another agent. Another

3 3 agency agent.

3 4 0. No the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?
5 A. To my knowledae I don't recall anything like chat but”

. ;
6 I it is entirely possible that that could have happened without
‘ ” being a matter of record.

. 8 | 0. Do the-files of the Agency reveal anv instance what-

9 | ever in which Frank Sturais as ever asked to undertake anv
@ , is | kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?

ll | A, To my knowledge, nothing.

; 12 | 0. Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence

i 13 | whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or

: 44 | indirectly by the Agency?

2 4 ji
7 i A To mv Knowledqe, no.
16 a Now, when vou sav "to my knowledge, no", in answer
7 to some of these cuestions, do I understand that to mean that
18 ; you are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the
19 basis of a full review of the Agency's records and files?

: : | A On Frank Sturgis, ves.

G 20 i:

& 21 | 0. Okay. During the period of time that you were with

g '

i 22 | the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,

z et

4 oy | om? you tell us when that began in 1963?

é | A When the Special Activities Group. -~-

; : 24 |
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i]
| Park 83
: :
8 2 " Group began?
3 i
s 2 i A It began -- well, it becan around June of '63,
& I
2 t .
z 3 0 Now, with particular reference to the last half of
e I
i }
& 4 $1963, including whatever neriod in June '63 mav not have been
i
5 ' involved, were there a qreat manv Cubans in the southern United
i :
i
6 |, States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were beina
| .
‘ 7 , SPonsored by the Agency?
if
; 8 i A Wellm vou mean Aqencv sponsored fronts?
9 | Q Yes. .
| ce] 16 | OA The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effort to
11 || have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castr>
jo || factions. Obviously the leaders of the fronts knew that the
a
2
< sas: . ok
CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
a 13 Js
Q
é 14 || fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Aqenc
i +
.s [or the U.S. Government.
16 a But when vou sav “supposedly,” does the fact annear
19 | to be otherwise?
vel A. WE11, based on mv experience with the Cubans ane this
. ; ;
2g | be of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
Q
i=]
a 29 | it wouldA’t take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface
S ;
a oo
¢ itself.
2 21
cos . &
® g 20 | 0. Was it your oninion and impression at that time, “tr.
>
3 33 | Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be
8
& 24 involved in the CIA orqanizations?

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SECRET 04

0 And again with particular reference to the Miami
area?

A, Yes,

0. Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere

in the United States? I am asking now particularly with
reference to New Orleans.

A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am
really not familiar with wnat hanpened in New Orleans that was
sort of a sideshow to Miami.

Q But the same is ~~ it is possible that some of the

same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded

preteen senna oe ay eae tee mr ta Ra cng ee

by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans? '

A. I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had
the same functions. I know that some funding arrangement for
subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through

New Orleans.

0 Well, can you he more specific about what you mean
by that?
A Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we

were subsidizing there had to he some ostensible source of
income for them to continue what they were doing. A great
number ~- well, not a gqreat number, but a number of select
people were -- well, they were selected and then thev were

talked to, to pose as trustees, if you would, or directors or

dsunzegeat? von miqht hava of enma nf theca arnanigvatriane in arder |

7 Bm PIS as
I rere 85
o .
6 >" to get the funding through to the organizations.
= 2 : These people ware normally prominent people and -- |
GS i: : '
4 2 . ;
5 " fn, And did thev qet funded by the Agency, then, through |
z 5 ;
5 ‘ ae
2 , . the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople? i
um ,
5 ‘| A, These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friend,
i .
6 \ of theirs that had heen made trustee of another type of activity’
J . :
’ 9 : and sav, vou know, we are trying to assist these Cubans in this |
'
HI i
8 ; type of thing. Could vour organization give us any money, and !
. i! j
i
9 i the guy on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend |
44 i
@ Ls | you $25,990 or something like that, or donate $25,90N, This is
r the way the funding went into the fronts,
i}
J i
ae 0. And was some of that funding arranged through veonle |
4 12 |
< ios !
in New Orleans? :
‘ 13 | | |
a
x 14! A. I would think so, I believe’ cn.
2 ae | : .
i
24 0. Were anv of the people in New Orleans throudh whom
Loh
ve i that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be :
2D . 7 ‘
xy | involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison? :
“|
+A i A, Not to my knowledge.
10 4 !
j 0. How about Navid Ferrie? Was he ever connected with
19 |
” yo i
°° th :
8 || the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance _
. 20 . i
y .
° to Cubans or Cuban groups?
. 8 214
oo oa . '
@ Z | A I couldn't sav. I am just not familiar with -- we had
. 2 22
: |
4 ij a great manv people that did this.
z 23
5 0 How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a
3 24

HW 50955 DoéId:32203351. Page 36

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|

op 7m ial
Sstaker a6
2 . :
8 1 A, This I do not know either.
3 3 0. Pardon?
& i
3 i .
2 él AL This I don't know.
gy Ht ; }
2 , i BY MR. MANFRAOT:
i
5 Q Where would that information be available? =
6 | A Well, we have a cuv that used to work with me who was
‘ ” | down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.
i . . i
5 0 Is he in the building?
i
9 | A. Yes.
i
1 | 0. What is his name?
a :
. il ia
j
16 Q. |
3 : |
a
a A. '
a LS
Q i :
: Y MR. USE: . ,
< 14: B AR OLS iy
25 | Q. Who is MeAMIReae with now? Which department?
16 A He is still with the DDO.
|
7 BY MR. MANFREDT:
1? | :
134 Q Western Hemisphere Nivision?
18 |;
19 A No. He is on one of the staffs. We is on the -- T
mn 1
o i
8 50 | think Career Management Group Staff.
d
a :
é 0. Is he officed near you?
g 211
i) 1
¢ .
& A No. He is down in the basement.
3 22:
5 BY MR. OLSEN:
& 24 Q Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were
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SECRET a7

A, Oh, ves.

|
0. w“- to the Cuban novements? |
A Yes. ;
0 Do you know whenhter -- do you know the identity of anté

of them in New Orleans? i.

N

A. No. No. Totallv unfamiliar with anything that took

; |
0 I take -it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediar-
{

place in New Orleans.
for providing funds to the Cuban fronts?
A The files that I have don't reflect it.
0% I think we covered this already just a few minutes aga
but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. |

I understood vou to say that it was your impression in 1963
that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban people in the southern
United States, talked about and believed that they were involve.
in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true?

A That is right. -

ie Was it also vour understanding and your impression
that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in
the southern United States about plans or prospects for the
assassination of Fidel Castro? ‘

A. I would say no. I don't think there was -- you have

got to remember that these people were embittered. Thev lost

their homeland, their vossessions, thev lost everything and the-

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-anything they could to get rid of him,

SECRET | ae

ce That is Fiedl Castro?

A That is right, and they would probably verbally do

Q Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among

these Cubans?

A I would say among the Cuban exiles there probably was.
a lot of talk about that.
0. Did you participate vourself in the overhearing of

such conversations? ‘

A No,

0 Was this a-matter of something that was reported to
you?

A Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the |

source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the
Station and from my visits down there and that type of thing |
that this subject always came up. What were they going to do

with Fidel? How are they going to get rid of him and this type
of thing. I don't mean the Agency people. This is what the -

Cuban exile community was discussing.

Q Yes. Do you.know what Howard Hunt was doing for the -

“Agency in 1963?

A. Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
'63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of te
DDP.

0 This is your best recollection --

| SECRET

3
8 1
( 2 2
z 3
é 4
5
6
7
‘ 8
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10
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SECRET 89

A. Yes.

Q ~- at the moment. Is it possible that he was with

Domestic Operations Division in the field of edn

| engaged --
A I guess you are right, yes. I believe he was there.
ce Did you personally know Howard Hunt?
! nN
| A No.
0 Never met him?
A Iomet him. That is all. TI can't say I know him.
Q You would not have known anything about his where-

abouts on any particular day, then. Is that true?
A. Can we go off the record?
(Off the record discussion.)
THE WITNESS: Let's go back on the record.

BY MR. OLSEN:

0 I would like to have it on the record.
A “Do you have a particular day?
2 No, I am just asking you if your acquanitance with

Hunt was such that you would have known of his whereabouts on

any particular dav.

A. No.
0 Was it very infrequently that you ever saw him?
A ‘Oh, I would see him in the halls, this type of thing,

but -- bump into him perhaps downtown on the street.

Q But vou would have no occasion for knowing from one

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‘SECRET 20

g 1 | aay to the next where he was?
es re |
“ ' :
i 3 | 0. Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf !
E a of the Agency as to where he was on November 22, 1963? |
5 A, ‘Yes. |
6 | te And when did you conduct, that inquiry? |
| . :
\ 7 A I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent
; 8 | one was I guess ~- I am just trying to think. Well, it wasn't
9 too long ago because we did have an inquiry and we obtained the |
10 | time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which
ll | showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day.
; he Q Was this just fairly recently? |
{ i 13 | A Yes. :
: 14 0 I understood from what files I have seen, Mr. |
15 Sturbitts, that the onlv records that were available from the
16 Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
WW during the two-week pay period ending the 23rd of November but |
ia | that the records were not available as to how much sick leave
19 | or annual leave had been taken on any particular day.
3 A) Well -- |
5 20)
F 21 0. Am I mistaken?
i 29 ; A As I recall, he was in a duty status one day and a
. 3 .
@ 23 | sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day.
( : 24 I would have to check that with my Budget and Fiscal Officer.
: 25 He is the chap that got that for me..
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made?

| a

Q.

inquiry?

A

\, Page 94

SECRET

Can you check that for us?

Sure,

And give us the results of that?

Yes.

91

Because this is much more detailed information than

| I have been previouly aware is available in the files of the

All right. I will do that.

'
H A.
BY MR. MANFREDI:

Do you want to make a note of that?

Let me have a piece of paper,

YOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts'

is 351-5106.

That |

1963.

In response

THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?

BY MR. MANFREDI:

is the day.

I don't know. I would have to look that up,

don't recall exactly who asked for it.

No.

But Ican find out from the B and F guy,

{

|
And the date? Do vou have any idea when you made the

{

|

OR A we

to whose inquiry was that investigation

I don't know whether --

phone number which :

too, I

I will just have to check that. I don't know who it was.

hopefully

SECRET 92

3 1 ! Q You said there was a previous inquiry?
5 i
i : ee) j A Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt |
g 5 who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of
: 4 European Division. !
5 Q When was that inquiry received? :
6 | A. That was about a vear ago, I guess.
9 BY MR. OLSEN: |
; 8 a About the first time these photographs began to be :
9 | circulated?
10 | AL Yes.
ll 0 About the bums in Dallas?
, 12 H A Yes, and actually I think this -=- Archie's inquiry
{ i 13 came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was
: Om for a long time and he apparently
1s made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. |
16 Qa- This is something you are relating to Der Sterm .
17 || Magazine? , |
1s As Phat. is right. |
. 19 | 0. And did I understand you to say thqt in checking with |
8 “50 “the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that |
S :
: 21 Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?
i 22 OR Well, I will have to check that. That is the way :
. |
(@ 4 23 | I understood it but I did qet this through our Budget people whol
_ : : 24 | have the contact with the Office of Finance. |
, 3 25 0 And that he was on annual leave the day before?

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WARD & PAUL

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25

SECRET ae

|

| A. No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick |
{

; leave, and then on duty status the following day.

BY MR. MANFREDI: '

| 0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's

previous pattern with respect to sick days had veen?

A (Nods in negative) 4

BY MR. OLSEN:

0. November 22, 1963, was a Friday. When you sav that
records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --
| 7” .

A It was a Friday. Then I was mistaken.

ie Does that mean he was on duty the following Monday

or on the next day, Saturday?

A. No. On the following Monday. I didn't realize the.

22nd was a Friday. . , i

x

Qa Will you check that thing for us and give us a hrief

; memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting

documents you can find?

A: Okay.

Q As promptly as possible on this question.

I think that covers the subject matter.

MR. MANFREDI: I can give vou another moment if you want.

| Can you think of anything else?

MR. OLSEN: I think that is all.
MR. MANFREDI: Okay. Off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

HW 50955 Docld: 322038 1 Page 36 i, cok ty He,

SECRET 94

|
t
\
l
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c=) H : . :
8 13 BY MR, MANFREDI:
7 |
y il . : :
{ & 2 | Q. Iam sorry for the interruption but over the long hauli
a i : :
2 i :
: 3 I think probably I saved vou some time.
g i ‘ ;
é A, We are talking about newsvaper efitors when we were inter--
5 | rupted -- or when I invited the interruntion. JI guess I-ought
i . ;
‘ . i
6 : to be fair. i
J
7 Is it not a fact that the Aqencv had some relationship with
i
i ;
g i+ some prominent newspaper officials in the Miami area? :
: i
i :
‘ g A. Yes.
' . . }
. a Q . And what was the nature of that relationship?
| :
3 | |
z |
( :
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3 | |
| |
|
16 0. What was the purpose of those relationships?
17 i} A. I really couldn't say what the prupose of the relation
|
is ship was. I mean, the same reason that we establish a relation-!
!
L
19 | ship with the press in this town. There were certain things tha
3 1
s 20 -might come to the attention of the press involving true names
9 i . |
a
¢ 2} and incidents that we felt should perhaps not be surfaced at any
8 1
€ .
3 | particular time. |
3 22 | 2 |
° | H
r 93 | Q Do you have any knowledge of use of the press-in Miani!
= Ton |
a a4 for propaganda purposes? :
z ° : |
g 25 A No. No.
T oO ‘
|
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Q Would you know if that were the case?

A No. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was

a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these
people as well as they were assigint us.

Q What assistance would you render for members of
the press in Miami?

x

A Well, in the case of Gemretuneae

we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of
areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations
would give him background briefings and this type of thing

on the developments within a given country.

Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers?

Predominantly, I would say probably (EN@BMGeam:

Rater

ton traveled atqréatedeal throug

Q Was he also used as a source?
A No.
Q- Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive

similar briefings?

A Yes.

Q We talked with Mr.Olsen for a short period of time

about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these

organizations?

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A Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were
principally interested in the leadership of the organizations.
Once the organization was established and the leadership took
over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess,

getting membership from the Cuban exile community to join.

Q What were their functions, the fronts? :

A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic’

|

thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a |

political organization in exile.

Q Did they conduct any operations?

A No, not that I knowof. :

Q Just like a political varty?

A Like a political party.

Q How many of these fronts were there?

A There were several of then. I really don't remember

the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary
Democratic Front. I guess that was probably the biggest one.

And there were some others.

Q The RDF?

A FRD. . .

Q I see.

A Front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the

Democratic Revolutionary Front.
Q All right. Are these groups still in existence?

A I would think not. I really don’t know.

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97

Q Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico? >

A No. There was but there isn't any more. There
hasn't been one there for wnars.

Q When was it disbanded?

A I think the station was established around 1953
and ~- perhaps it was established before that. I think it
went out of existence in 1958.

Q Do you know why it went out of. existence?

A No, I don't. I don't have any idea.

Q Do you know what function it was performing?

A - (Nods in negative.)

Q You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked
in the Cuban community for the CIA?

A He worked with these fronts, too.

Q Was he performing any intelligence function in the
community?

A . Intelligence functions. Well --

Q Was he collecting information?

A Sure. If he got information that he thought was
worthwhile he would pass it on. |

Q Now, would he have been considered one of the three

or 500 persons employed or assigned to the Miami Station?
A Yes. He was a contract employee.
Q And were intelligence requirements levied on such

contract employees?

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_
: A Normally, the requirements are pretty standard,
wt t
8 2 | or they were at that time. But here again, you always have
é 5 | ad hoc type things that pop uo from time to time, and have to
é 4 | be surfaced.
8 Q “Some of these contract employees were, then, in
6 | the business of collecting intelligence information in the
a | Cuban communities in Miami.
8 A Right.
9 Q Now, I think we finished with chanhatenns but can
10 you think of any other functions performed by (ENSRAomSg that
il we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?
F 12 A No, not really. No.
2
: 15 ; Q I think you previously described them for me as the
: 14 eyes and ears into the Cuban community.
15 A Right.
16 Q And they actually had a physical facility in Miami
17 which was their headquarters, did they not?
18 A Exactly.
3 19 Q . And-there was a CIA Case Officer who managed t9 3:ipe
8 .
; , 20 vise that facility.
a
8 21 A Yes.
i 221° | Q Now, what has happened to (En EP ANG
; 23 A [inewMorsywere gradually phased down and will ao
: 24 out of existence -- GHSURMOTS are out of existence, aren't
2 25 they? Isn't it the fAMipURESS or -- these are the

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| A Yes. The only reason we use two different names ;
P ;
~ | is that in each of these things in those days we had to have
7 \
a project which had to be renewed every year to get the - !
é | |
‘ funding. :
9 °
10
A Synonymous. :
11
Q “~~ are cryptonyms?
i
2 le
5 A Yes. |
f é 13 :
s 8 Q Do the initials stand for anything other than -- !
: 14
A No. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt |
16 somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a |
: |
16 ‘crypt. You don't have anything to do-with it. QGRg
17
18 |
Q Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for .
:
3 19 assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the
a . i
- |
g 20 political conventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly
° ;
3 ei describe for me the nature of the assistance provided hy
5 .
= ze the Agency to the Secret Service?
i |
. @ 4 25 A At the request of the Secret Service we conducted:
s !
a . . t
{ = 24 name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted |
8 !
. 25 traced. These includedthe employees of all hotels in Miami :

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6 100}
3 |
8 1 i .
. § | Beach where any convention activities were to take place, |
re) {
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a | employees of catering services, limosine service, employees !
é 3 | a
e | in ~- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
é a | .
| is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it. q
i + t
5 | '
Poreiqn news people and media, television, radio people.
6 ; ; :
: Q Were these people on whom name traces were requested.
i
7 | __. . .
i all foreign nationals?
8 . . '
' A All foreign nationals.
9 .
Q Was thera any check made to determine whether
. -
!
10 any of them were American citizens? i
Y ; |
il . 0 ;
A We levied on the Secret Service as a requirement ;
Qe _ |
3 that they have identified these people by nationality before |
ig 13 | |
‘ ; -° ll we would run a, name trace. Inadvertently, at one time |
« i
: 14 . . ; . ; wo eee
they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens
‘ %
15 which we promptly sent back to them and told them we could
. (
16 not trace.
i
i” Q And this practice was followed both in 1968 and
|
18 1972?
3 19 A That is right. |
3 .
g 20 Q And where were these names traced? |
- ie)
€ .
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3 21 A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The
Fs ; . |
z a2 Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check
ul .
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@ 3 25 here. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had
:
( z e4 more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.
we
o .
. 265 | Q But the names were traced through Agency files?
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A Through Agency files.

Q ° Was Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI
on this as well?-

A Oh, yes.

Q And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name
check --

A Right. .

Q “~~ on people who might pose a security threat --

A Yes.

Q ~~ to a candidate?

A Well, they were just trying to determine who might

be a security threat.

Q That is right. Potential threat.
A Yes.
Q For what political parties -- strike that.

In'1968 was this service provided for both political

conventions?
A Both political conventions.
Q Were they both held in Miami that year?
A No. I guess it was in 1972 they were both held

there. I think it was just the Democratic in 1968.

Q These requests did come from the Secret Service
rather than --

A From the Secret Service and it was -=- the Director

of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for

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support.
! Q Do you still maintain the records with respect to
| that tracing activity?
i
| A I have all the names that have been traced.
re] And they are on little cards down in your files?
i A Yes. |
Q Why have those records been maintained? Is there
any reason those records have been maintained?
A Well, because we were told to maintain them when
the Watergate thing broke..
Q I see.
A And since then nobody will destroy anything.
Q OK. Are you aware of any picketing at various
places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban
groups?
1
A I was not aware of it until I was told of it.

I still don’t know whether this was a spontaneous action on
the part of these people or whether they were instructed to
do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to.

Q At what locations has it been reported that pickets
were located?

A Airline offices in New York, Miami. I think ancther
place. I forget where it was.

Q Have you in fact been able to verify that these

persons were Cubans?

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PAMGRS

A

that this indeed did take place. Now, what I have been trying

SECRET | 103

Well, it is a matter of record in the

history

to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized

this,which I fully doubt.

Q

Who was the On-Site Case Officer?

At that time it was a fellow by the name o

Is he still alive?

Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know

whether this was a unilateral action on the part of (ea

against the countries that were then trading with

Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France.

Q

A

can do.

Q

Other than this incident which we -- strike -nac.
What kind of an investigation have you conducted?

I have talked to people, which is really all vou

There is no other way you can do it.

You have been unable to determine who, if anyone,

authorized this activity? Have you been able to identify

any of the persons who participated in the picketing?

A

Q

No.

With what frequency did this activity occur?
I don't have any idea. I only know of one instance.’
This was in New York City?

New York City and Miami.

Do you know of any organized political activity trac

SECRET

SECRET

& 104
abh 108 aT
3 = :
. $ yengaged in?
i 3 2 .
& To my Knowledge, they didn't engage in any. i
a 3 a
2 Any political activity. H
é 4 eas
Do you know of any other activities that they have |
5: sate uae . i
| conducted within this country, they or any of their members :
, {
S| have conducted within this country that we have not already “
i
? | discussed this afternoon?
|
}
8 A No. i
‘ i
9 Q Any political activities? Any operations?
, 10 A No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain
@ dil select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban
: 3 _ defectors. In other words, live with them until they are
oo ;
a ; is resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity
fe 4
< 1
id 14 they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of any- :
is thing else.
16 | Q Do you know of any criminal activities that have
17 been attribited to -- 1.
16 A I have heard of some allegations which have never
3 19 been proven. |
° i
a ; . |
3 20 Q What are the allegations? |
a
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3 a1 A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances |
c
3 22 ‘and this type of thing.
ul '
- a
@ Z 23 Q Have those allegations been made with any fre-
{ gs 24 quency? :
2 |
* 45) A Well, I forget who it was. It was during the

:
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memory exercise.

SECRET

105

Watergate trial. Some of these allegations that came out

and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we i
made file checks and this tyne of thing. One varticular

activity was supposed to have been carried out in Rockefeller

Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of

context. It was a training mission and -- training exercise.

ry

i
‘
These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York |

and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhatta
-~- Chase Manhattan and to come back out and then they were —

- . i
supposed to diagram the layout of the bank. And this to some

of them meant casing the bank when in fact it was just a

Q With what frequency were those kinds of training

exercises conducted?

A Well, whenever there was an ~-- whenever it was felt
that these people, selected individuals, were to be trained
in trade craft. .

Q- And did their trade craft training include such :

things as surveillance?

A Sure.
Q And break-ins?
A No. Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As I

said, in the case of this particular thing,-it was misinter-

preted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -- they

could have walked into your office, your outer office and

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106

said -- the instructor could have said two hours later tell
me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it?
This is just for observation.

Q You stated earlier none of those allegations have
been proven. “Have any of them been proved to your
satisfaction?

A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.

Q I take it you do not believe they took place other

than the training exercise?

A Oh, no. No. I don't believe they did.

ane) Do you know of any instances where members of tnat

group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
in this country?

A No.

Q Have you ever been present at any discussions of
the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the

Miami Station within this country?

A. Legality? No.
Q How about the propriety?
A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.

No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or
the propriety of having the Station.

Q There have been some allegations in the press and

elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of

that community, by the CIA. Are you aware of those?

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other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledge

--of operation within this country?

SECRET 107

Q We received some correspondence and I have seen some

articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of
a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various

operations in this country.

sae sna oo ee oan ee me

A You mean this country? \

9 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some

of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type

A No.

Q Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided

any financial support for Cuban buSinessmen in this country?

A No. Not to my knowledge.

Q

A No.

Q Establishment of businesses?

A No.

Q No?

A No.

0] In the course of our discussions today we discussed

various political front groups,

revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre,

wre

Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supporte:

—

by the Agency, either financially or otherwise?
Page 110 |

103. |
°
8 1
e A Not to my knowledge.
va
= 2 QO Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached
a .
g 3 to Mr. Colby?s statement?
E 4 A Yes.
|
5 Q Did you have some role in drafting that? |
6 A You mean the Miami Station thing? - 1
i :
9 Q Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". |
8 A Yes.
,
9. Q You wrote it? }
i
~ t
A Yes.
10
ll Q It has a familiar ring about it. There are: referenc?:
12 to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are
eT
2 :
“ é 13 there any others other than the ones we have been ciscustsi0?
- a- i
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15
16
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18 ;
” 19 :
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S 20 :
a
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3° 22 ,
ul
< 23
a 2A Q Do you have any personal knowledge of what kind of ;
3 25 intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the "iam:
3

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109
A There are no domestic activities at all @iiien
here to Headquarters. The Sn} now is completely
and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.
Q na-- I beg your pardon --

does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban
situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban community?
A No. Well, let me explain that to you. We do have

a career agent who has been with us for a good many years

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in Miami and we do use him to contact relatives of Cubans
who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the U.S.
who have relatives in Cuba.

Now, this is done principally with the idea of a

recruitment target, determine weaknesses or strengths, this

type of thing. He does contact these people all over the
United States. If we come across an individual that looks like
he might be recruitable, or perhaps we could even double hin,
we will, after we make our preliminary assessment, and we

find out where relatives and these types of people are, we
will ask this career agent or instruct him to go contact
these people, be it. New York, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-

ever.

Q So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this

country, aS access agents.

Page 112 “ eS

| SECRET | 110
@»> 16 . . .
8
7 3 1 .
3 A Right.
& H
s 2}
3 Q Just like foreign associates would do.
$ ° A Exactly.
2 | .
* 4 9 Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who
.
5 are contract employees of the Agency who still work in the
6 Miami-Cuban community?
, ? A No. None,
. 8 Q That entire apparatus has been --
9 A las been dismantled.
10 Q -- dismantled. What is the @éu
“11
@. »
3
~
oe 13 as far as I know. I think it will be@BR by the next fiscal
a
& ;
3 14 year.
LS MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
16 (Discussion off tne record.)
1? /MR.MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
18 BY MR. MANFREDI:
” 19 Q There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
3
5 20 - Of Miami?
fa]
8 21 A No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of
:
3 Le Headquarters.
Q '
2 23 Q And even from the Headquarters location there are
@ z 24 no paramilitary operations?
3
. 25 A No.
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8 1
= Q) No covert -- well, there is some vropaganda activity
s 2
“ being conducted still?
a 3 |
2 A On a very small scale, and the covert action facilitd
9°
é Qa | :
| that we had, tne radio, taped srogram, is being terminated |
5 | |
by 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated |
6 | ,
| now. ' ‘
"
. Q \
8
‘ A Yes.
9 . -
2 And it has been decreased to how many people?
10 . |
A Between@@ip and @it
—_ il
: a QO And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
4 le
3 ; respect to Cuba?
a" 13
as A Absolutely none.
$14 |
Q And its responsibilities are entirely directed to
15 : . :
other Latin American countries?
16 a
A To Caribbean countries.
17 . - . . .
Q Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are
18 other Agency stations in the Caribbean?
a 19 A Yes.
8 .
¥ 20 Q Well, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts.
§ 21 .
® If you have anything you would like to add you are welcome
£ ;
= 22 to do so.
“ 23
@ g A No, I have nothing.
a
E 24 9 I want to thank you on behalf of myself and the
o
= 25

Commission for your cooperation.

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SECRET | 112

Sure.

I am sorry we had to take so much of your time,
That is all right.

Thank you again.

(Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of the

deposition was concluded.)

SECRET

