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| 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |

20 October 1961

PEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

SUBST: =Peeting with Dr. Kiro in hew York City on
October 16, 1:6)

*

The roeting with Dr. Miro on October 16 mia reatruned from 10100
until such tine as bie sutlenca ten inated with Cantinsl Srellran, He
artived at ry poor. nt wbiut 10150, He declared that the Cardinal had
went when he leurned the detailu of the suffering of the Cubana at the
huvia of Castros ceclurnd that the Archblahop of Miarl want doing
@nough for the Cuban refiyseagy thit the U.Se wasn't doing enough for
then; that Castro cust be overthrown, Piro told the Cardinal that in
all Latin Arerica: there vere poing to le or;artred acts of syrpathy
for the Cutan sufferers, The Cardinal said he vould aay a Mass for
thes cn October 17. He invited Piro to soe tin at any thre..

Miro anawered ry query as to the Lacerta ut(nirs by stating that

“" {% waa very successfuls 2,/CO peonle vere Inalue the auditorium and

another 1,000 peole outuides that Lacerca had recoiwed such applause,

The inter-Arerican Press Assoclation affatrs sleo had given an

opportunity to present the Cuban tragedy. He nai’ that te (iro) had
tol? how Fidel had slot 31 people in Septe:ber alone, am other vetalley

‘had descrided how Comwunier: was gaining groun! day by days tht dn

Cuba thoy have Installed a powerful radio station broedcuating to Latio
Arerica; that ten countries have Lruken with Cuba, but Argentina has

nots that everybody Js cunfused.

Re inforned re that aa for the dociwents relating to the Cuban
plota {a Argentina, the Arpontine rilitary ren care to talk to Varom,
and he gave them suone‘doourents that have no imvortance. The officers
told Verona textually “ve have no confidence in the argentine Foreign
Office,” nevertheless, when they arrived there, they turned over the
doecurenta to the Foreirn Office, Mut these decurents had no innor tance j
they were ccrely to .eronstrate that there hac been an extradition of
decumanta, am’ that they vere ortyinala. The ii rortant cccurents are
bold by Voronw in PMieni. ;

Miro gaid they also visunliszed another act involving Lacerda in
Miand, Dut Ubnat his “ad inistrative” buiget really does net “rovide for
props -srda activities (such ag the Currert SIP ond Lacerva affairs). I
countered that it was cunsidered that his budget tae sufficient for hip.
to ecnduct sore propaganda activities; obviously nothing on a wajor
scale —= but sore things, :

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; Miro declared that internal provepancs and clandestine action in
Cuba evuld not be delayed any longer. I szreed on the necnanity, and
that 14 was believed that reasures are recessury to forrent in Cuba.
the opzosition to Castro. "Tre 2e07le are egainat hiri" declared Fire.

‘ wBut. increase it,” I anavered, Miro ties stated "If this action doesn't

ster. fra tho Consejo (CRC) — not aa a: ‘independent agency, tut in.
close euntuct with you (the Agency), — vhat we forrent is a oorplete
disorder in Cuba, aml aftervards no zorernm ant can aucceed; secondly,

Af we do ret have a central plan, enc carry it out vel] in a rore or

lesa lirited neriod of tive, there w1i2 rerely be rore shooting of

'. people (prisoners) by Fidel."

"4:4 this ie my insistence, Ecw I ar ufrald to go to Miani. bhat
an I ts tell the peonle there? What co J 07 Converse? Yeanwhile the
Agency ceeps on infiltrating poople into Cuta but disconnected frox. the
Counei2. I was told in ry conversaticn vith the President to snplity
the rentershiip in the Consejo, I rave endeavored to do that. Ia the
Coureil there are other proat organizations - dolegates from each of the
organizations - that ask me for aria, cyrecite, things, and Iu tere.
powerless, Therefore I rust work wit” y~s people in order to seo Lov
We nay terd over arms and @ plan of actian 20 they ray see that this le
not rerezy an endlosa serios.of satotaze actions." I reolied, "ell, I
Delleve that a wolleworked~out plan ‘zet al.cve yood chances cf euccess
will te favorably considered.” — - . ; :

"How about arza for the Escartrey?® ssked Miro. I replied that
it was rz understanding that arms for tte Escarbray eould only be
landed on the North Coast; how then wil: they ret to the Escarbrey?
Miro said thet the boaf which had rand zany trips (working Sor You),
vould Lave to establish corsuniestion an: find out vhen they would pick
up the arra; what cannot be done “La aver’.& Osvaldo Ranires in this
situatica of anguish becauue he is the only real regional foous of
resistance thut there ja thera, and te tas teen really left ina desperate

situation for three ronthe.

I interposed that there ssered e2me uestion about the puper frou
Ramirez 2eking for arms, whether it ws ve real thing, “Perfectly
identified® ronlied Miro, "re assured thet it is perfectly identified and
requests have come to ne through different channels asking for these arms.
Tan still waiting now for a month and a kelf, All you have to do is tell
us the reans of delivery, the neonle t< contact and then ‘eliver to our
Cutans the urns, dynatite, fuses, I ar stil] waiting, end eriticisn (of

Cubans against inaction) increases ca‘ly." :

“311 the delegations of revolutictary groups in the Council 28% re
for ares end reans for fighting. but I cannot rovide then anything,
FMeamé.ile the Agency is infiltrating -eozie into Cubs without counting on
the Corsejo for anything. This puta it inte an absurd position - merely
a "courell vainted on the wall," I ave seid, "Look for someone else if » 4
am not ecuaidered able to do the job tut we rust work. I have confidence
4n the Agency, but I cannot work inttis feehion.®” :

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*I'va asked for money for the clandestine groups. What have they aaid
about that?" Firo asked, I revlied that there is a problem of the means of
delivery, that the Italinn K bassy at present appeers undesirable. The
Ambassador isn't thero. kell, we look Sor another reans; the Argentine =
anything - those peonle need i: onay" ha countered, I have to carry out con]
crete things,” he declared, "I'r now like a person in a aviering pool
without water." "For three emi a half rontha I've struggled to maintain a
revolutionary spirit. My rilitary reople ara waiting till I arrived and
tell thez, "this ust be done, t must be dene. fothing yet! And without
any slsn, I don't go anywhere; nowhere!

"The other time I vent with ry oyes closed, through faith. Ke had a
failure and the failure fell upon-res—T cannot preceed under such circur—
stances in no way. I've aaked for-$50,000 to send in to the underground,
The Russians are spending $400C,CO0 in propaganda and have leas than the
U.S. ¥e srall not compronise the U.S, Tell me the way to send it in, The

_Counail is to aid them, not rerely to conduct ceetings.”

*On that roquest they beven't renlied anything?" he asked, I anewored
that on this iter, I had made known Firo's desire, tut that so far nothing

had been resolved,

"I'm not corplaining," he stated, "but fort hree ronths I have beon
asking fcr a con.ict withthe authority to resolve. Why? Because I'm
getting novhere. when I return now I ehall be asked, "Kaw about 1t?" and
must angwer, ‘You will have to wait because I buve ncthing.! and meanwhile
the Agency keeps on infiltrating people into Cuba inderendent of the.
Consejo, Let us go back. Without being in agreement, I cannot serve you.
I have ro interest in presiding over a Council that is of no use,"

I pointed out that the Council rust continue to exist, with him as
ite presicent, aa the coordinating body uf the resistance rovexent, but
that there sre certain difficulties in putting the student or labor activie
ties unter the direction of the Council; that these groups are now functioning
efficiently and that I trusted that he could see the croblers of completely
changing their control, direction, and coordination. I added that I
believed that he should know scwething of what they are doing and that I
believed that should be kept inforred.

"I know absolutely nothing," he replied. «hat cores to me ig fron
these same individuals, I an not in agreement with that, I'm becoring ridte
culous. Under these circumstances I cannot continus. I heve olanted the
probler. of the underground, the probler. of the collateral organizations
(that he would like tc have in Council by teing their source of support
and coerdinaticn), of the magistrates, and now you have seon whet ALABAU has
done (proclaiming GARCEKAN ae president of exile government), tho ig work=
ing with you people, and you have seen the reaction cf the State Departrent.
Fow yosterdsy ALABAl’ is publishing political denunciations against the
Council. I have discussed the mstter of the ragistrates with the C.1.A., I
don't remenber the nae of the person. A month kas passed and the other
magistrates (those with ALABAU) haven't been stooped (in their activities)
and they haven't had elections as I requested to select another leacer.®

: Crp any

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"The students are eontinuing their activities. I ‘belisve that I have
soneti.ing in ry head aa 8 tesis for the determination of what shonld be
discugsed in the Council vite re; -and in agresrent vith you; but these
exioting circurstances, vitzcut any connection, rake it ‘so that I cannot
continue the clandestine aid. To the first probler, I presented your reply,
"ve shall pe." To the sev-o7 probler, the collteral osgenizations -«
which continues the sana s5 *efores the third probler I presented, on arts
to serd in, nothing. Tre fourt. probler, the nropaganca’ operation "Griets®
that I shoved you, nothins." I reclied that on the latter I had discussed
the ratter, that it ws, f elieve:, a auggention given to rir in the Departe
rent of State. J .

"If we don't rake crevezends and send arrs tr.to Cuta now, i's useless,"
he declared. "And I canset rerain in ellence." I renlied that I telieved
quite a bit of nropagarda wes teing conducted. "Yea, but. incependent of the
Co:ncil, I CaNNUT iZ A PLF2iTI® “They (the Agency) keen on cealiny with the
MRP, with the Unidad Revolusicrz rio, and they haven't ontered into the Council
aipnly becausn they ara in cirect contact vith the Ayency. Thus it appears
thet none of the oreblens ct I took up with you sore twenty daya ago have
been resolved, and I'L) tate to take ancther solution. I'vant to know the truth
if T'r not acceptable, ['11 lsave and witheut an; ecand?é shataouver. I have
avalloved all the eriticte:, in ry own huuse, in allence, aa though I vere
responsitle Zor everything, I curnot continue to do thisiend te doing nothing,
IT carnot be a puspet! I neve n args to give." | ;

He reiterated that metcing had bean resolved on any of tis requests and
provesala, am! that he eclia't ecntinue thus, That he could quit, go to |.
Puerto Kico as a profasssr, Re edécd te vould want te work with us. He then
referred to the acts of Lumeréx in Mew York, which had cdat four thousand
dollers, plua passare, 4 ricicuicus sur spend fron the sdzinistrative Budget.
"Ke heve paid the psasare, ris living costa bere.” he said. ;

1

"Now I vo to Fiard where I have to face the organizations grouped into
the Council, "Aira for ever;stere?” "I haven't any. All the organizations freee
wheeling there which. don't wart to Join tovrether Lecause trey ere working
directly with your people." Z asid this sas unfortumte and aske@ vhather
there eculd nct te sore fomm.:* realizin. contacta with ther without neces-
aarily channelizing their accrert ard direction tnrough the Council, such
as ty forming a comnittea sierg the lines I had suger sted) in Vieni.

: Miro then referred & the eereement resched in the nite House mesting
with Fr. Goodvin, Mr, Koodwer’, vith -ertleren of the C.TLaA., and with lr.
Hurvits. Firat, “inst he coly trim: that $s recocrdeed 19) the Consejo (CAC);
Pr. iro isthe :erscen of cur ezrfidence and vill heave ac, ecr inistrative
budget which he wil] contre? anc vill report Jater the extenses of coordina~
tion, anc that any other excenses, cropasarda cr clandestine activity, will be
paid by the Arency; for the trvilers of the orgarizationsl !n the Couroil there
vill be a ccntact to assist in working out their solutions; that is to say,
that their pretlers of toats am: arcs.” Another point waa}that in case there
are organizations that dco act choose to Join tre Council, Pr. hiro will te
perfectly Inforred in adtance of the ratters at hand anc will give his

so | .
authorination. Thet fa to say, it coat itabes 6 unifying control over the

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(CRC), Ihave seven, to work with you, with me, vith the peorle vho are
going to carry out the activities, with the people that I designate.
Mothing of that is teing done. Then what they want is to work alone.”

. "I will not continus. I vill not continue fromthe! tine I return to
Miem1. I have gone on for five ronthe, struggling. I cannot accept this
aituation, I have tried to pull together those sroups asjasked in the
White House. I haven't succeeded in frouosing any rore, because ~ I want te
speak clearly in order to rerain good [riends alvays = beontive you huve
prevented it. The stuventa havon'’t joined, not because of no political
reason, but nerely tecause you aunport ther: directly. Preswably the idea
1a that in thie way the seourity of this nation is better saferuarced,

A Consejo waa desired to serva aa the coordiniting group and to provide a
fecana by which the United States vould not appear toto intervening in Cuba.
If there ia to be a Consejo, it nust have all the dignity of a Council.*

“When I try to form a Council, grouping all elexents together, they
don't Join because they are talxiny directly with yow people ~ and there
1s an office for that rurpeso in Fiami ~ which deals with all the ren who
want to work, tho vant to do things. This 1s all indevendent of tho Council.
And some vork for a destruction of the Council, I eannot tolerate this, I
have s gon vho is « erisoner; either I know the plana, and I knew the raneuver
and tho problers that they are going to carry out, or I, when I arrive in
Miami, will say, "Xo," and send word to washington, Let them do without Re
There will be sonsone vho will subnit to these things, but not I."

"And of the four items that pronised re to resolve, there
shave not been resolved any, and I ‘find pyself in tha dark, And I as. very
sorry. I am not going to corpreniae the security of this Nation, but
neither an I going to conprorise the situation of these boya. khen they
disappeared, lost their Lives, atc,, I waa contronted with "And you are the
preeiuont of the Counvil.”® I carnot remaine in this ways."

"I haven't been able to «roup together anything, I ‘us promised that
the ragintrates vould all incorrorate together (into the Council), but
that raacal ALADAU is working against the Council and Ihave reason to
believe that he 4s doing it with Agency support, otherwise bow would he pay
for his politio:1 denunciations." I resoonded, that [ telieved this could
not be true, He shouted, "I have cxpreased ry position te you, and I want
you to get an answer vhen you can. If thcsa vrotlers that I have set forth
do not have an irmediate solution, IY & not’to kncw and to dispose of
relative actions to be taken, then how, in view of ey situation, must I do.®

He asked about the olan for clandestine sabotage action by corzando
raid, that he had given us, anc what had core of it. I replied that he rust

, Pealize that the study of such a plan necessarily was alow and must be

considered by rany. He said he was convinced that there was no intention of
accepting such plans, ard that while now we diacuss such plana, we lose out,
"I cannot accept this situation, nor would you,* : ; .

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Ha then said that he could yo ahead ar! dissvlye, the Councit], and let
@uch orpanization go ahead ant do aa It plecacd; that he couldn't preaide
over a reaningless councils thet this ung not a threat, tut he vould step
out. I reassured hi that he was bishly esteerod in Washington and [t vas
necessary that he continue ag head oj’ the Council. He rerlied, "But they

Olereyard rea,®

Hy raiteratrd that he had slanted four nrobleca, none of whieh had
Woer resolved; reiteruted that io hed rlantid the Prone ance oroblen @
long tira sgo, but that :ropagamia continues indeponcient ot the Counotl
and peuple cra set out iike those to the Con-rusa of atuconts in Jao
Favlo, Wiere they repeat t ings litho purrots wdeh don't go with Latin .
4verican audlences.s : ee

"I have askad for arra; elthar give us ragsive ald, ona, two, three
nillica © vhatevor is necessary, because this ia to udeatroy Conpiunias,
and we'll rcke our plang, And we'll furnish the dead, fcr vo cen do no
Fore. *e rust work in ayreerant, Lecauso new onch time that I speak,
it's “we nkall seo, we are going to stints," - and nothing hapoens. No,
no, T akall not oresice over another Council axiutin: under these cireun
stances, I have often arent 24 hours without sleeping, trying to pull
together the groupa, and neantize, robles arise on all eldes, Why?
Becauze so lony as other prousa et surcort, they won't enter the Couneil,
Tha Mi? is in contact with you and getting array now the Unidad Rovolu-
Clonario, 1 rerain the ridiculous ons, Alroady I've ‘aufforcd a lot and
heve a son who ig a priuoner, And J've talked a lot during theay dsya,
and I xeen on being « puppet, vat worse than 4 puoret, becuuse a vuppet
is woved, tut I'z not even never."

"Therefore, I say to you that the grouns that want to vork with us,

you, the chief of that grou:, end I, va cought to rusolva all these queatdonsa 3

for eyazcle, with the chicf of the nilitary croup, beennsze he hag pulled
together the profassicna) arry ard whe rebel arvy (elerents) and the army
of iikeration, such us Varela, Sotus, Nino und the boys, sho have core

' from the brigade." He declared that STIS Jaa fighter, is willing to
: Yeturn to Cuba, ard that he had grest conficonce in SOTUS, an

T assured hir that the legalization of SOTUS! residence would be

“arrange, and that ¥r. Burvits inforred ne tht he believed sorothing

could be done for the other three returnees vl-ose nares fr. Firo had

» gives se.

Dr, ¥iro reiterated that he rust speak clearly, that he could not

continue thus es a travelling presicent without having anything to give to

his peocle — nothing to the undoryroun! through Council] action; ner could

"he be ignorant of plans which he ornoved where Cubans yo out to dis, and

then Lavirg their relativos core to li: as responsible. He declared, *I
don't want to Live on a budget, reside over on adr iniatrative office,

: Feceive oeorle, tell ther lies, saying, "We whall see.* The ren vho are

i

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Ja

here (in Council) representing organisations rust know sopothing of what
they are going to do and if they ask for 40 rifles, I pust be able to say,
"Hore they are® ~ not to give arms dfrectly into their hands = hut through
& contact for this, Othervies you people muke your plans, and I'l] retire
from ovorything. And be assured that never, never vill I say a single word
againat the Agency or tho United States, never} nor exuluin reasons which
ahouldn't te exlained, :

"If I cannot have the responsibility that I should have, I ahull not
lend ryaelf to what ray result in a trapady. None of the problema I have
planted have been resolved; not -that of the reyistratea nor that of the
Eucambrey, nor the roney to the underground, haa boon renolved, not the

“plan of propagamia that I gave you. I cannot continuo to sit in an office,

While you continue operating, aa you wiah, with ry silont ounsent. You may
chevsh sozmone else like Mr. Godoy, who 4a asking for arms, Choooe and
seo vhothor his nare will save Cuba. You aro noing to create another Fidel,

Who 1a nothing.

T repinded him that I had my talks with hin. only ton daya tefore, not
twenty, and thot I could talk to no cna in Washington until a week ago and
had to have rany conversations with pany people, and that his proposals
could not be resolved In such a short tire. He returned ta the ayrecront
that "plana of action be discussed jointly; that it thore were objectiona,
that the cbjoctiona be discussed. He said thero had been no objections so
fer to discuds; nor objections to propaganda plans. He vas to have contact
with o representative of C.I.A. to meet with representatives of orgunigae
tions that want to collaborate, and with Dr. Piro = nothing developed on
that He declared that he should have knowledge of the notivities of
thone that don't vant to collatorates and eald euch day there will te nore,
becaune they vant to cain the power for therselves, to act on their ow
aconnt, He said he knous there luo "Jim* and a "Robert" and others that

are doing thinge,

T assured bir he cust realize that there were 1any probleme involved
in his proposals ani that tire was essential to work then out, I rerinded
hiv, of Lia conversation with kr. Goodwin and the lattera! etate: ent to the
effect that thera could be no thought in the foreseeable future of a milie
tary operation against or invasion of Cuba. Miro countered by referring Ww
hie oonverastion with the President on 1¢ July and hia (Miro's) complaint
of inactivity, He said the President prorosed the recruiting of Cubans in
different units of tho arry for training so aa to utilize ther: at the
opportune tine, ani that the officers would be invited to our nilitary
achiole, Miro said he had xuthered soce of the military toyether and ine
forzed them of this cffer, and tho next woek he was: culled to discuss the

‘recruiting, wich he avproved, Ther General Herahey went to see tim at

his house, telling hlz thet Cubans wouldn't be sent, to Berlin or any such
place but kept in the U.3, uvailuble for use later, kiro said, “It there
is to Le no invasion, then let's utilize the underground, which needa arns
and roney.® | , ; ;

, eveaty

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_ the oover of a certain sagazino because he didn't know vhether he was i

Gene-* oo ote
cor , . ‘

He again repeated, “Thure rust te rasaive oroparanda; asoondly arr.as ,

we shall furnish the dead, but I need to z10v Mitow are we going to die,® _ _—

He commented that he was going to ask that his photorraph not be put on ; t

going to continue; that in the present cire-zetancesa he didn't see how ke
could continue. Again I urged that Le rust do oo, ord that I felt certain .
that ve could moolve sure of hia provosals, nrobubly not to the extent
that he desired, but at least in purt, but that tine was necessary to. :

accomslish this, ;

He repeated that the Gounoil reels to Fave sire sotion taken in Cuos,
tut the Agency koens on uncertaking actiora withoul any connuction vith
the Council. Further, that he must have the raann fur ecnuuctiong prope
yanda, auch os out)ined in the "Operaticn Grieta,” He askod,so when could
I give him sore arovers, I replied that during the current week I expected
to have reotings in which thess ratters wuld Le discussed ~ the Lepartent
of State, with Kr. Goodwin, with representatives of the Agency, and that I
hoped thut scrething would te resolved, but that he must realize that rany
people are Involved in auch matters and solutions are rot reached quicrly.
fle reiterated that ho had to keep tolling 1.13 organizations Frait a Little
longur® and that thia vas. becoming ouburrassing. : ;

Ther he brought up hia preposal of having Fim and the Council] go to
Cubs, saying “porhang it would be arvanteyeous thst T die in Cuba; that
the Council usk recojmition fror. Cuban 40/1 ond the military aid of the :
United Statea —- all to take place within 42 ours, Ho added, “I have i
told you of the reuction of Cardinal Sreliran, °¥o heve dons very badly
in the Cuban affair.* .

I recinded hir that despite the urgency timt we all recoynized in the
Cuban situation snd ita threat to the Urited States and sll the Acericas,
thera are rany other world problera - Laoa, rerlin, ates, - wileh also
occupy the attention of our yoverrront cacnle,

Then I said I wished to take edvantag. of cur reeting to ask him for
information relative to his current budevts; first, did he believe that
there vere any neonle recoiving « eslery Sru the Couned] wo might alsy
be getting financial ald fror H.E.«, He wid, "Ko, £ vould never parr it
that," Then he declared that he had two ways of oper:.ting when ho obsorted
the perscnnel of the virioua oryanizations ints the CrCy; elther te cut off
their salaries auidonly, ur to put ther te worn for their cay; thot tre
"norina"® (payroll) erew a little Lit Leceuse be had to take in certain
neovle, and that he considered t.4s ubsorbing them was secor ing to the
rolicy of C.I.A. Then he declared that the roxieu vererit recelvad by ,
refugees tron H.F,W. waa $160 per fac tly cer rontr, an: that no vhere tere :
could a farily live o. a huwred a ronth. Hence, be did not feel that he '
could cut off the peovle on the staffs of the cit organizations, and send
ther. to the H.E.W, ‘Therefore, they vere sacigred to the different

,
ern Ty SG
mn” Pores ‘ Jt

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reed

Qo

"The money for the uncerground 1a Puch and contact fo doubtful, an

‘excuse. The problem of Cuba costs a lot of zerey! The people of the

Escanbruy = it's difficult to deliver arma to them? But we are going to
run that cisk. The urra sre guing to be lost? “ell, risks punt le taken.”
Hire aguin referrod to the groups that didi't want to collaborate with the
Couneil but would collaborate directly vith the Arenoy atating that he

had opvesed it and util) oppesed Lt; ‘that he recoived a very affecttonate
letter ssking hin to try vork out all the croblors tetveen us ond accept

u solution, an! that a recrosentative woul be destynated to work with hing
that I had aupeared un:t he had spent two very pleasant days with re; that

I wan vory undarotanding; that trent; dayn had pessed of creat avztety.
("lot twenty but ten," I inter~oaed,) He avid he figured that probably ha
right have arta and hein Cor the underfround ant Yrow about nlang of ection
and had felt stremzthened, "But" he sald, “now I tual knocked down, hone
of the clang or propsgania provossls hava been sccopted, rone. The firing.
wall in Cuba continues functioning, 31 dead in 3%) days. by resiynation has
been written long ago, und Y am ready to sulr it it as ooon ag I return to
Miari, ;

I declared that he rust not do that, that he rust have pationes., that
it takes tine to resolve these things; He replied that he has been waiting
oince April und rentioned oJ] the sufferin« he Lad gone through, attacks
by everyons, rothers of prisoners ami dead, the Arericaon Press, Forture,

Time, Lifo, New York Tinea, etc., all against tin vlog: with ALABAU Trelles, —

and othoras and that he had auvnorted 012 of trie in uilonce. He had been
asked it it were true thet there wae no air sus-ort and hall not answered,
"the other tire I kept my 1ips closed with atsslute raith, the noxt tire I
ofall] huve ry eyes open and have rany questions. I don"t unceratand how
you people can deal with sore of thove unknown Cubans, .

He said, "I've given many vroofs of loyalty to you. What they attribute
to me the other day in Miari that "thero would be an invasion in a few
daya", that 19 not true. I have a tape recording of what To satd Ulich vas
"very soon (without ventioning any date) in Cuba there would be unveiled
tho great Pascuss (resurrcetion) of the Fatharlerd, and the presa hus rise
interpreted Puscuss us the Pascuan do Nevidet (Ciriuteas).

+ i

"Thus the prani cones out with staterents attrituted to Dr, Piro that
the invasion will take place by Chrintras, cornletely a lie and nothing
Aike whut I soid,® I conceded to Pr. 1 iro that fe had suffered a trerendous
nunber of attecks in silence and thut the prasa bec over a perjod of tine
core out with critical re:arks. I asked his. tf he planned to pass-through
Wastiington before returning to Miami and he sais he didn't have money for
such expenses; that tis wife was terribly vorried about thelr son, but
that he would have to reiuin in New York unt}1 Wednesday to atterd the
luneheon for all the editors of the Latin A: erican press, who want to con-
verse with him, to help with propagands but wittcut costing the U.S. a ,
cent, Lf .

oye ye
eras,
th

vviet

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cormissions within the CRC1 finance, propaganda, clandestine, rilitary,
organisation, etc. The ~nes vho ere ro xood or don't want to vork, he

said, he vould cut off, but that he couldn't Just fire screone auldenly,
He then said saluries wero srall @ $200, §225 per ronth.as ean average
except for particular individuals, such aa hie ussietant Aragon, a very
capable persen,and the chiefs of the various organizations who work "full
tire" and receive $400 each; further that he planned to give each organiszae
tion approximately §700 per nonth for their operating expenses, eomo lens, |
some a little rore ~ (MRR, Reocute, 30 de Nov, 26 de Kayc, AAA Indenend=
Jontoe, Kontecristi). . _ ; Poo

. . . i . .

Won I questioned whether the bonteoriat1 orvanizaticn waa util] in
the ChC, he said it. was, that only Justo Carillo had dropred cut of the
Ce but the croup rerained in and had a new head. He added that he had
just had a requost from Carille to provide hin (Carille) with a thousand
dollare; that Carillo had photographie copies of sore checks thit he had
paid.to Waldo Frank for propaganda activities against Cuba and that
Carillowad asking roimburserent but Kiro said he didn't ounsider he had
to give it to Carillo. .

Returning to the budget, Miro Said, "There are the verlous erployoeas
there is tho item of trips; there are the military jeople grouped under
tha military cormisaion ~ I cannot let the. sufver risery. There sre no
studenta on the payroll beceuse they are being su;parted by you (the
Agenoy). And right there a difference ia eatublished betveen those in
the Council and those who recoive money (ros the Agenay directly, which
fe more than that received by ry peonle, Sea how you (the Ayency) with-
out intending to, and for reapong of iusecurity, ara going to destroy
the Council," He then stated that ho had placed Alvarez Viaz, who had
been Ninioter of Finance, in charge of finance rattera because he (Miro)
could not be everywhere, andto rake certain that no exienaes were paid
on whioh they were not in agreeront, and which Paula would carry out.

t

3 querried whether Paula vould continue as accountant, ani Miro sald,
"certainly, ag accountant." He said that everyone hana been coring to him
(Mire) with all kirdo of pleas for money and therefore it was necessary
to have Alvarez Diaz in hore so that he and Poula night resolve the finances
matvera., Miro added vorda of praise for Paula, "It's like I want to have
for each section of the Council, like I wanted Conte! Aguero to handle
propaganda, tut since he ia receiving money from you {the agency) he
doesn't want to. I have to have soreone ta take this load off of re; firat
as in Naval affairs, soreone to lock for boats, arma, etc.”

I asked about Festre for proparanda and Miro replied that hestre is
no good, never wa of value; that he had Leen put ini charze of the prooa-
ganda cormission previously and given $4,000 ronthly, but had done nothing.
Then he launched into a criticiar of the Swan propayands; thut it was a
shee, handled by Batistianos: Fernandes VARELA, a Catholics Suares
Hermandes, a senator in the epoch of Ratista. He nazed another (sounded

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en ns ee ne ae

l- |

like Chau Miller) a tad person and n Batiutero. Fire‘ seid ha had asked
that Svan le stoped but, since they vork directly, theas people ore
‘efended. He addad wryly that ho winhed they (the Agercy) would defend
him (Viro) that way. :

He said thoy (the Aveney) had posed the oroble: five zonths ago in
Miarl relative to Jonquin, Sager io, 8 Cuhan who wea working with the
Counei2 and has worked regrificently, but then he accepted work with the
€.1,A. and continuss doing this (ar! doa vhotever he rlusien)  intele
livenca, array, recr.iting, ate, -~ and wilt have notl.ing to do with the
Council, © :

Again Miro declared thut ke had the hivhest regard for Paulo and

couldn't deanonse vith hdr 5 had ‘even propowd bis nare to be the lagtstrate

of the Tribural of Accounts Inthe futuro poverrment of Cuba, I udded
by uderstardins that Peslo had dono an excellent job, oarticulerly
sentioning his bandling of paying cerender.ta, a roticulous and arduous
task, Hiro exciaired that he had never ecnsicercd renlacing Paula but
poroly needed Alvares Diaz to handle details with Pavla. He antd every=
tne in lant iowa 14 is Pula vho has the porey to rake paynents by
check, and that he thought 1% wuuld bo better for the jeople to get pay=
tente in cash and alyn a receiot; that scretines awacse right rob Paula
and then people will suk “fro: where docs this reney evte,* aince the

Cubano hava no romney.”

Then Dr. ¥iro said he would like to clarify any doubtful questions,
asked whether he had reveived an; other coemunication fen the Escambray
sroup, He revlied thet Le had rot, but that the ons iad core through the
Montecriotd ¢roun ani they continued to aek Kir. for this arna ald. I
asked whether any chanics oradditions had bean rade jn the Counei] at the
October 10th neeting, He replied that the MRP had not answered hia ine
vitation bucause they wore working with the Agency, and that the new
group, the Union Revoluclonario, had relied that they did not, tecause
tmy have a celogste In taslington who is seeking clreet contact with
U.8. Goverrsent Agercies, . :

Miro then caclared that in order to call a Council reeting, he had to
have a press cunfarerce or a présa rolense (about calling a CHC recting)
but Prio, ALAKA!, and everyLody wero tgainat oll tiie, and were doubtful

- Whether to core or sot to cove. "7 talked with Conte aguero and with Are

rellano pany hours. Arreliann is a fwhrer; if things eren't done aa he
wants, he won't co slong, Mornover, he has « strong anti-American
sentinont, I talked to ther, but they said, "Ko." "There were two

proble.as their lack of confidexce in the Covernmert, and ry contradictory

view that wo want to be with them (with 0.5.), I woula like to have had
to call a Council reetiig alrost ty force, Therefore I cecided to have
ro meeting and no press conference, and to some here (to Kew York City).

There vaa no session */ i

'

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el

"The [astistianos ure very veil orgarized and «lao the Frio followers,
waiting for re to do sorething, and I cannot do anything. I'r Like St.
Lavrence, roasted on une sida and fried on the other.” ;

I asked whother the Cou:o1] waa looked ton too ruch as a political
entity rather than a unifying: nediwn., Miro reclied, "Thove pecple (Prio,
Alabau, ete.) want to obstruct the ones who are fightin; Castro through
the redium of the Counet}, They are divided into two creurs: (1) .
Politiciarss Prio, Alonso Pujol; thosn thut vart to te the directors;

(2) The sroupa that want to act within Cuba vho don't vant to Join CRC
but rather to deal directly with you neonle in order to have the power
tomorrow in Cuba; necple only of action, byt sot of corzon sense and who
eannot rean ruch to the future of Cuba; uldey would cause another era
like that of Fidel, sho is rothing but a otucent. That‘is extrerely
dangerous, You give these pneosle the resns and if one of them over-
throws Fidel he 1s the one wio assumes power, He ray be a good ran of
action but only 24 or 25 years old ani not one who can orlent Cuba in
the way of derocracy, After roarhing 40, reople think difterently.
Fighters are capable of curry ing cut the action you give ther to do, but
hot to govern. 7 ; _

Dr. Miro continued to cwell on iis concern as to the future if these
young fighters are given a free hand to co as thoy plesse; that care rust
be taken as to who 1a sunvorted, that these people are the onea vho don't
want to work with us; that the tkP hopes that it will be the ore vho will
lead tororrow In Cubas that onos of the future wil] be eorething te which
yeu the U.S. has conteitonted by suprorting such clerents.

Dr. Miro cormented in further detail his views and again ha tered on
the ranner of uning funds to avoid being like the ostrich. "Everyone
knova where the money 1s coming fror ani io hava to be careful of the
form, Lveryona dood rot know of you, but of where the help is coming
fron"

"Wo are the pulitices of the war ugainst Castré," affirmed Pr. Mires
Let acilitury ren function as chief of: staff as lony aa the rilitary action
against Castro continues, but then the civil action must be carricd out
by nonerilitary ren,” . ,

He added that durin the softeniny-un action against Castro, re
rust take good care of the ranner in whieh th. .ction is tsxen to avoid
exrosing the 1,5, suv-ort; and that he consicered that the colluteral,
incependent groups were not safeguarding it; ao wo are losing tlre now

as you (U3, Apencies) deal with each. of those crours, Arc be rust not

lose, we rust win,

greeny

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wee “{
<13-

I told Lr. Viro that I vas anxious to werk out sone ranner of linkirg
these groups vith ir. Miro an! the Council, witrout having to channel '
direction and funcs through Dr. Miro, since these groups are now function= :
ing well uncer «xisting arrangerente.

Dr. Miro a-4d he would te rlessed to meet with ther outside of the
Council, and they ray continua to function as collateral oryanizatiors
independently; tut that they realize that they tsve one: direction. Cr.
Firo ad:'ed treat like the independent magistrates with their attitude <<
they are injuring the Council.

Dr. Firo carented that he wanted the raziatrates to have on electicn
and select their leacer according to the resuits of a vote. He reiterated
that all the ecllcweral organisations runt orerate within the orbit of tz.
Councils and tzat be would be glad to discusa with ther their opinions
just as he es « srcefeszor had cone with stuerts--cften times resulting

in excellent ifesa end viewpoints.

Then I ractionad that I had read in one of our magazines a laucatcry
item describirg nis cercnstrated capabilities as a redlator botween .
political greunsz and individuals. ~ \:

Dr, Mire again returned to his belief tiut funds of all organizations
should funnel threugh the Councd] because every Cuban has a sense of seell
that inclines {2 to go wheres he knova the money is discensed; that thia ts
sad but trues aod that those who are still outside and hope to get direct
support, jithey mew that the roney was here (in bie banda), would core
running without urging. He then said that he had seven hundred collars,
more or lesa, for each organization's operating sxpenses. He concluded a
by asying that »e didn't wish to cperate without us (Agency) or without
any of the Avency omonle, but merely desired to pull tegether the diverse , b
groups and otter activities, ‘ 2

He then referred to hio conversations with Mr. Berle and General
Taylor, and ris view expressed to them that in the April affair he felt
that the Agerey %2¢ functioned more or leas effectively -— soretires -
their people kad teen “rough”, or "tough", but that he Lad no complaint;
that the lack of efr cover no doubt caused defeat. hen he had been
querried by recerters and other on specific questicns designed to pry
Becrata out of nix, he had replied, "2 didn't see ther,® or siriliar
evaaiongs, and thus had endeavcred to be loyal to us. :

He naié his son had been certain that hia father would be with the
expediticnary force, and, in route to the Bay of Piga fror Guaterala
the son had searched for hir. on fhe boats, and was disillussioned because
his father wasn't there. :

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Again he ercphasised his view that the stuconts sent to Latin Anerican
countries on cropaganda rlesions should be indoctrinated by veople in the
Ceuneil to prepare them for the cross exuining that they would undergo,
and thereby prepare them against trans and foolish statortntss and to
insure that no Batista suoporters vere sent out. He erphazised that one
of the iret questions asked of these provaganca er-issuries would be
"hith what roney do you come here?" “shat Yankeo organization is behind
you." He added, "The peorle have to be will vreoared. to answer; Just ag
I bad to wergo a succession of penetrating questiona when T first vent
into exile in Argentina and could answer ther without hesltation because
of a clean record. .

Again he came buck to his urgurent that the collateral organizations
should function through the Council = nok "forgetting the Agency, tut not
being forzotten by the Agency." I told Dr. Miro that I honed during the
course of the week to have a nerios of conversations inthe course of
Which certain decisions and colutiona vould te reeched that would enable
me te sit dow with him the following veek and work out sore cetetls on
propaganda and other ratters,

Sr, Miro thon asked, "How best canthe security of this nation be
insured © the Agency dealing directly with thoae peonle or working with
the: through Miro?" And he erchasized that he vag concerned toth with
the security of Cuba and of the United States, and that these people
(Cubans vith whor. the Ayency Je dealing «irectly) at any morent vhen
they Zelt they were losing out or were not sufficiently paid = would
ask for more, and, being Cutans, right ba very indiserete; but that Lf
ther had to deal with Miro they gould be obligated to go to big with
their corolaints., He said thit just aa a bew seeking awects will go to
any source, but if there is crly cne sourco it will go to that ones and
that thus all grows ust look to the Council, :

again Dr. Miro returned to hia thesia that soonor’ or luter there rust
be war to overthrow Castro, and that Cutans and Arericans rust realize
this; that as a preliminary the Cubuns must carry out sabotaye, ate.,
but Just ua blockades didn't overthrow Franca or Fussolint, reither would
they cause the fall of Castros further that if suborage wae conducted vithe
out being a part of an uvera:] plan of cissions, the people insides Cuba
Would come to react adversely to the sabotage and align therzelves with
Castro. .

fe then excreserd his view that tine Is teing sadly waated in trying
to trins the Latin areriven countries into agreerent with the U.S, against
Castrc, because, uncortunately, cary are ruled by dictators and they fear

‘Concerted action against therselves, but if the U.S. attacks and destroys

Castro they will avplaud. Arain he repeated that the Punta del Este
agreerent Bight well cause rany countries to say, "Thank you Fidel, and

not, thank you Vr. Kennedy.” .

Dy. Miro emphasised that he vanted to collaborate vith us fully. Thea
the conversation turned te the dissolution of the FED by Varona, and Dr.
Firo declared that this steo was difficult for-Varona, to take because he

: or hr : . .

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* 7 t
hat Laen ita cheef and in a kigh nosition and had thua subrltted to the
Council, He declared his asteer. for Varomi, a very brusque ran hut very
heneat. Ho oid Vurona had declared with rearoct te tho Argentine
doceants thit, "They are in Miami, I don’t feol like sending ther to
Argentina because they don’t belong to Arrentinn. They telony tothe
tlefsttat fe Castro, Argentina has ciploratic relotiona with Cuba and
if 1% feels like it, will send the docurents to Cuba.* Vurcona declared
in the SIP that the Ar-entin military cen had deceived him because,
having stated that they didn’t trust the Arcentine Foraiyn Oi fies, they
nevertheless took to irventine the throe docuents thit wero fivea to .
ther an: upon urrival turned ther over to the Foreign Office, ¥iro
edded that Verona stated t'4a clearly in the SIP reeting where two
Argenting deleyaten wore vrerent. ‘ihey said, ®, ithout rentioniny nares,
Tnct.r, Go you declare tlie Lefore the 3IP7™ Yes, I declure 1%," be
replied, "ert they shut up. : :

Hiro aided that Varons had declared last nihl, "Let then give us
ara t finish off with Castro, hut give ther to uml Whoevur has then,
give ther. to usl Dr, Miro then deolarad, “Fo «re willing to diserburk,
but here wo era Just vlayiny: | ide end seek.” :

‘
i

le. Firo then reforred to his view that Ifarto Ue lee Avertenns

‘should receive 6 orsil subsidy; thet sovetimes it oubliahed articles

unfavorable tothe 3. but thet uaually, und ir subsidized, vould elininate
adverse iters, : i :

Trem I returred to the subject of the bulzet und concern hat eae on
the Cow:e!l nayroil right also te on HLE.L, payroll. flo replied thet tor
Octerer by would have thor swear that they vere receiving no other toney
are Pererkes that rary ara on the cayroll, He enwersted the different
nectisns ~ delegations in Latin Arerican counteses, cach persun (tvo or
three et rost in each country) raceived only erough to Live crizy without
opersting funda, Iie said eaci, chief of organization:in tha Council received
8460, "which {8 vary little,* :

. ! .

He addes that during the neat tonth with funda lert over, he had ser.t
to Fexfeo $3,509 because go 6 245 noorle had arrived jthere In need and
bungry.s He anid C.I.A, aided with £5,000 una he iad sent $2,005 because
trey were Cutara, Further, that re had crovide.! auch organszablon with $700
for ita expenses cf iailiny, offic a, cur, ctc,, but thst tals wasn't a
fleed sur. He added thet whatever ves left over he wuted to send ty Cuba
t those vho re fighting there, ,

He coclared , "As fore they car reduce tha tuizet to the ininum
orovided that thay send ings to Cubes but ry ~roblers rust be resolved.
This tayroll was -rorised to re vhen I was rave vrestiert of tha Council,
and I didr't create it.® ' :

wae t

as Ba ;

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- Vasona renilea, "Resipn.® {

“was ao good tecauste be wanted to anenc the anole day. ot

reece.

Na |
| olb-.

: s§ jueretet ‘stent the exnenses 2 of tis recrultzert aectlon, ane he sald
be Mad told Pauls to elizinnte that iter sicce reerulting {a now dene elso=
ere, but the rildtory reraonnel in reeraitios should grouved in the

rilitery 90 thet sure form of intelligence sgency could be paintained to
nrowhie information. :

Ho affirret that hig rilitery stat cally constetbd of three officers
iTarele, Deraigrea, ‘Yontenpwlo) tub thet they bad excenbon of of fico,

 tranmortatien, 2 sseretarial beln, Aa fer “is Socio} halfare aoction,

be said this ta¢ Leen established by °.5.4. at bas ancpsoary for disrange
ing rediainos, etc., for Uutan ce tuzees bere.

Ra declared tet he nada't touched any of the nik ‘gen (inl-erited
Srve FRO) excact overating exvanses, In onisr to give hie. a rer¢in of
AzJds to uset .2.foreacen urgent exponseds

Wo said, "I ‘old ruuda to elininate sll that could te olizinateds
j

saturally ha wae Nave to corault with yous" (Apency) !

Relative te the Raval cecticn he sate Le clanned ub elininate the tr
exrense alloverce Git ot the a:eticn itesif, because he duo: » {t essential
fer ratterau suet ag sending sara to Cul, since they oakiot be gent by
air; an! that an office ia necessary for them but their, [6XPONBOS rust ba
out oft slowly. ~ . j

Ag for the vector! section videh bal teer ¢ercated batorw, ‘a satd
gely two “eutiicdee® (casualtt« a) rerafire: asi that thejsectlun was to be
eilzinated. He ceiteratod that these seeticng had been |erented by us
(Agency) und that they could only be ele insted sraduallys

He aff frret thet thers wis Jeft Sor his use only 26r8 eleven or

“teette thougand dollars for catters sur’ ss attentence dt the SIP und

Iscenta affaira, ani such cinor cropises.is acrairs, but|that be felt
be should have rectored to his the funis Jor crapaganda |(that hed Leen
gcing through Mestre),

I agsured Hie that dt was certainiy ¢: tence that the Propayanda
tertsaion iow function under his as the resagarca ssetion of the Council

cand thet tf bestre vos rut co:siderec to te tts eter, that te should

desivuate wecre elge,. He ceclared that teatry vas in Rew York, hed
talae! to Varun: yestemiay, tnd asked Varoce shat he ahguld de, to hich

|

Niro the: ssid he would lke to mut corte Avuero in ag head of
prcagundn Lut tat Conte would cot apres wie ss oe told hir to. Piro
mesthoned that tre start which Mestre hac -as very good frat that Pestre

svire ing pool.
Ee wentioned arre? del Cerra, ferrin | Pednaces. vutes farvo Rurbaud. He
paid ang~l del Carry vouli te a good abies 25 -ropaga: ae but that for
tia te would also like 4 geod adviser suc. ia Conte, WO really is no
BON excert to telks tat would like to be rrvealdest. iro said

AST
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_ be returning to Hiant on secnesday after the Freas luncheon, ..

Hurberto Medrano, a resortar, also Would io pood to direct cropagante:

offerte, tle added tat bestro, chief of tropaganos tor the rit, wich no — ,

longer exists, 1a tho one v1.0 continues recaivin, the proparsica funds

Troe. Poula, lie declared that he (Miro) didn't control these funds; that |

he didn't have anything axcent a bureaucracy. =

I told idm that YF es.efdered this probler of propagaida se-ticn and
its ereraters vhould te eorrceted right away. Ne added that be felt that
RaAty Swan should be pb unier the sropaiyarzda agection ef the Councils
furtrer, that the propeparca sectjon tad to quit sacding printed ratter
t we Lotin arerican e.urtries and instsad yond a Cusmit to med country
85 wrt they could le printed thera with the terms used in cach countrys

in Acyuntipey in Arpontire style; in Gruzil, in tortugueses in’ .

Parara, in the rannor of e-cuking in Farurag that such sropspince rust
te aid fur. He affirved. thet llumterto Medrano wa a yreat reporter and
hard wrker and could hamwle thin vell; that Purtin Peinado wie & fine
worker vio now is having = struggle to Live, but works well ot sropaganda

tatters, :
eK that. the propaganda funds should pass throug? his.

control, and that I-wegte take this up ucon ry ret.rm to haahineton.
Again he declared that he felt clans rust te rade Cor tim and the Counell ©

return to Cuba. I said this vas a ratter tor the future.

ve tercinated our reeting with my steterent that it would nrotebly
not te till the following week whan I would return to Miani, after
getting ratters resolved in ‘eshington. Je suid that he would protebly

: I added that if it seered desirable for hin to cone to kest:ingtor:
on route to Miani, I would coll hirs that otherwise I would look forverd
to seeing hin In Miami, I acid I felt we had coverod a lot of ground,
and thanked him for giving re go much of cio time to our neeting.

Again he reiterated thet he desired respousibdility for all groups:
ard Uist if he wasn't corgidered to Le the right one, that he wes ready
ard willing to resign. thon this, we finished and I axcorted his. to the
elavater of the hotel, .

