180-10131-10324

| 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |

JFK Assassination System Date: 10/19/20

Identification Form

AGENCY :
RECORD NUMBER :

RECORD SERIES :

Agency Information

HSCA
180-1013 1-10324

SECURITY CLASSIFIED TESTIMONY -

AGENCY FILENUMBER: 014724
Document Information
ORIGINATOR: HSCA
FROM: NOSENKO, YURI
TO:
TITLE: TESTIMONY OF YURI IVANOVICH NOSENKO
DATE: 06/20/1978
PAGES: 141
SUBJECTS :
CIA, METHODOLOGY
KGB, FILES
KGB, METHODOLOGY
MCMILLAN, PRISCILLA JOHNSON
SOLIE, BRUCE
NOSENKO, YURI, TESTIMONY BEFORE THE COMMITTEE
OSWALD, LEE, RUSSIAN PERIOD
OSWALD, LEE, RUSSIAN PERIOD, DEFECTION TO RUSSIA
MEXICO CITY
DOCUMENT TYPE: TRANSCRIPT
CLASSIFICATION: — Top Secret
RESTRICTIONS: — Consulted
CURRENT STATUS: — Withhold
DATE OF LASTREVIEW: — 08/21/1993
OPENING CRITERIA :
COMMENTS : Folder 2 of 2. Box 4

vo

HW 50955 DoclId: 32277209 Page i

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iyURT IVANOVICH NOSENKO --

{TESTIMONY OF

HW 50955 Docld:32277209


‘Present: Representatives Stokes, Preyer, Burke, Fithian, |

na oe - mylene bey
: THOMAS,’srs 4 ERS A ey he 1
retype smnp i : - Sem aT 7 ;
: Te I ;
| 1 EXECUTIVE SESSION
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: u . a By i
| Tuesday,: June 20/1978 75
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|
U.S. House of Representatives,
Select Committee on Assassinations]
|
: Subcommittee on the Assassination
. of John F. Kennedy
Washington, D. C. |
|
The Committee met, pursuant to recess, at 6:20 o'clock |
. . 4
#p.m., in Room. 1=D,. Headquarters, Central Intelligence Agency, |
Po a ;
: \Langley, Virginia, the Honorable Louis Stokes (Chairman of |
a . {
| - |
ithe Committee) presiding. !
i t
i
|

‘Devine and Sawyer. i
i os .
= “Also present: G. R. Blakey, G. Cornwell, M. Goldsmith, i
oo }
. Morrison, E. Berning, M. Jackson, J. Smith, K. Kléin and |
HI i
5 ji - Brady. |
—
| The Chairman. The Committee will come to order. :
H At this time the Committee will resume its sitting. We
i : : ; a i
“22 fare still in executive session by virtue of the resolution
i oo ‘"
4 . . . -
. “i ladopted by the Committee this past evening. :
- i
i 7 i
ac i + oa . . . |
sy At this time the Chair will recognize Mr. Blakey. t
i . 7 i
a5 8 Mr. Blakey. Off the record. 4
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: ae th i . ; |
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50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 3


: ! “(Discussion off the -record.) . :

_ 2 | The-Chairman. Anything further? |
3 | Bring the witness in.

. ; 4 Let the record reflect that the Committee has’ resumed ied
| g | Sitting and at this time the witness, vuri Nosenko, is back |
; before the Committee once again. |

7 | “Mr. Nosenko, I admonish you that you are still under the

5 = that you took last night. |

3 TESTIMONY OF YURI IVANOVICH NOSENKO ~~ Resumed . |

10 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.- |

, i | The Chairman. And at this time, then, the: Committee vl

12 | recognize the counsel for the Committee, Me. Klein. | |

13 Mr. Klein. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. |

14 Good evening. i

15 | Mr. Nosenko. Good evening, sir.

|

16 | Mr. Klein. You told us that after the assassination

i

7 you had an opportunity to be present when Oswald's file. was '

'3/ brought from Minsk, is that right? . |

9 | Mr. Nosenko.. Absolutely right. i
| Mr. Klein. pid you have an opportunity to read the entite

an file at that time? :

“Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. 7 [

;

‘Mr. Klein. How much of the file did you read?’ |
; ; = |

Mr. Nosenko. It was simply looking, page by page,. first;

i

part of the first volume.

| : , a 4 .
} PR

50955  Boold: 32277209 Page 4

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Mr. Klein. You went through the first part of the first

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

oo

Mr. Nosenko. The summary was written by the First

page by page?.

Klein. Did you go through any’ of the other volumes?
Nosenko. No, sir.

Klein. You told us that an officer named Matveev
file away. to prepare a summary?

Nosenko. Right.

Klein. Do you know who wrote that summary?

Department of the Second Chief Directorate.

“that they wrote?

Mr. Nosenko. Well,.the file was taken in the First

Department. I was working in the Seventh Department.
Mr. Klein. Did you make any attempt to read it? .

Mr. Nosenko. No.

t
Kiein. Do you know who, in particular? . |
|
Nosenko. No, sir, I do not know.

{

Klein. And did you ever have an opportunity to read |

the summary that the First Department prepared? |
|
Nosenko. No, sir; I didn't see it. i
iy
'

Klein. The Russian word “spravka", does that mean -~

Nosenko. Is summary, right.

Klein. And why were you not able to read the summary

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Klein. Was it at all unusual that with all your


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‘Mr. Klein.

‘read’ that file?
Mr. Nosenko.

Second Chief Directorate,

Mr. Klein.

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You didn't even ask to see it?

Mr. Nosenko. No.:

10 allowed to see it?
1” Mr. Klein.

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n | Mr. Nosenko. No, it was not unusual.
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, was uninteresting.
ui

“is feo Lee Harvey Osw
{

You have testified before this Committee that

the KGB did not allow Lee Harvey Oswald to defect

ald because he was uninteresting;

ane

You have testified the KGB did

was not interesting without speaking to him.

Do you know what year Lee Harvey Oswald came

ig Mr. Nosenko. 1959.

7
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20 | Mr. Klein.
I
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In 1959, approximately how many Americans

Mr. Nosenko. There was a defectionist,

I remember, —

lo the employees, one of the workers, who was helping to or-

25 Ieanize the American Exhibition in Moscow, Mr. Webster.

32277209 Page 6

involvement in the case you did not have an opportunity to

It was the decision of the Chief of the

given big importance to this questi

5 | that a resume will be prepared by the most prestigious depart-
mr ment, American Department, and that is why we couldn! t even a

So it was not unusual that you were not a

because he

and that you
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Mr. Klein. Without giving particular names, how many

Americans would you say asked permission to defect in 1959? |

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What would the number be?

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Mr. Nosenko. These two \were known to me -~- Oswald and

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a Mr. Klein. From 1955 to 1960, what would be your best
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‘ estimate as to how many Americans asked permission to defect
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| ; .
° F Mr. Nosenko. As far as I heard, there I think was one.
io. -
: only. |
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Mr. Klein. One other, meaning three altogether.
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i Mr. Nosenko. One besides Oswald and Webster, what I. |
13 | as
} know. 7
14 | Loe “|
Mr. Klein. Three? a
ag! eee ae 7 |
Mr. ‘Nosenko.” T hree. |
’ ]
| . Mr. Klein. Of the three, was Oswald the only one turned |
|down because he was uninteresting? |
a “Mr..Nosenko. Right... _
: 49 . Le ; Ot |
| Mr. Klein. Do you know any other defector who was ever !
20 | | | na |
“i turned down because he was uninteresting?
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| ;
ae Mr. Nosenko. No.
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| Allow me.to tell, as you have seen, and you told yourselves,
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| how many Americans are defected. It isa very rare occasion - and
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7 ne | kop prefers defection when they are planning, they want, these,
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types of defectors, ‘hey like and invite those people who can |
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| :
: \ give them certain information which is ‘inate. |
3 | Mr. Klein. Do you ees telling this Committee yesterday
| that “up until, 960. ne Seventh Department was recruiting
‘ je and’ right? | |
os: , Mr, Nosenko, |Absolutely right, :
5 Mr. Klein. And that’ you recruited a woman in Utah who “ye ~~
| oe Mr. Nosenko. *| I, “simply had. given example of this recruits
| 5 Ment which took place up to. 1960. When Seventh Department was
. _ | rectuitng and giving files to the intelligence Service, Pixst|
10 Chief Directorate, not asking them before, is it person will ks
oy | be for. them valuable or not. a0
i {
| 12 | Mr. Klein. And that KGB officers were getting bonus
3 | and promotions when they induced people to recruit? |
‘a Mr .Nosenko. Right. | |
| s! Mr. Klein. And despite that, Lee Harvey Oswald, when
14 he asked to defect, you turned him down without even speaking’ to
a , :
i 7 him, to find out if he had any information; is that right? 7
.. : -f
18 | Mr. Nosenko. Sir, we had quite a few recruitments in 159,
. 7 a very big amount of them in '59. very interesting, much,
28 | much more interesting ~~ professors cand teachers -- and -
2 | even was a. GOrOps.c from. CIA. we had quite a few recruitnients|
| ana: Oswald was nothing on: ‘this. base, on this foundation. .
4 : . - i

Mr. Klein. Would the ‘KGB have. any interest in an

» American student? “ . Lo :
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“Mr. Nosenko. As I told you yesterday, KGB interested in}
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“the Russian Language,

7

students, .but*particularly ‘those students who are studying

Russian ‘history, Russian economy.

Mr. Klein. And would they have any interest in an
American who had strong anti-American views and who was a
professed Marxist? Would they have any interest in that

kind of person?

Mr. Nosenko. | Here were are coming to a very interesting!
[ |

|
and sensitive question. From mid-1950, by the order of

Central Committee Communist Party, Soviet Union, KGB was
prohibited to make any approachment and recruitment of
t

members of the Communist Party of the West. -

Mr. Klein. I am not asking about a member of the

|
Communist Party.
. if

| :
Mr. Nosenko. Your question is, and if he.is some type

of Marxist here, the question maybe he is possibly a member
of Communist tParty, and to check it for KGB very difficult
if he is a member of ‘Communist Party or not of his country.

Mr. Klein. would they ask him if he is a member of
the Communist Party?

Would they check it?

Mr. Nosenko. No, they would not ask him.

Mr. Klein. they wouldn't ask him?

|
Mr. Nosenko. No.

Mr. Klein. Would the Soviet Union be interested in

someone who was in the military and worked with radar equipment?

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Mr. Nosenko. No, sir; it is not enough “because they

j

if . . . . 7 . ;

| Mr. Nosenko. It depends. If he was corporal, orice |

. i is no big interest. If he was officer, maybe they would be,
2 |

| interested. “

3 | | | 7 |

© Mr. Klein. The fact that he worked with the equipment |

| wouldn't be enough; they would want to know what his rank wasP

5 }

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Mr. Klein. And in 1959 would the Soviet Union. have been

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interested in someone who sérved as a radar operator on an air

base where U-2s took off and landed?

|
| had sources.
|
10 |

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"| Mr. Nosenko.. Yes, sir; it would be very interested. Pe
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” | Mr. Klein. It .is your testimony that Lee Harvey Oswaldr|:
| I | . | 7 _
) 3 i who was a student, who was a professed Marxist, who had -~- |
an M | . . . : 0
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wil Mr. Nosenio. Students? -I never heard that he was a |.
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: 15 student.
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| be | Mr. Klein. -- who had been a radar operator and had |
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: 2 worked on a base from which U-2 airplanes took off and 4
7 i. _
13 | landed, that he wasn't even interesting enough for the KGB
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i. 19 | to speak to him, to. find out if he knew any of this informatipn?
* H : .
i 2 | Mr. Nosenko. MrseKledns Jounderstand. yours positions. 5
4 ; : : |
t

ont) butowebldidn't ‘know thatuheshadoany/-connectionswith Us2ae fa

22 | flights.n..That is one thing.

‘ . 7 !

fl o |

33 | And if you, Mr. Klein, are basing on what was written ny,

242 Mr. Epstein in the.book, it is a little bit from the air

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Ao << ; taken ideas. Mr. Epstein even telling that how.important

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50955 Docld:32277209 Page 11

a word about his knowledge, anything concerning U-2° flights.

‘targets, very interesting targets.

Tgp s FERET 9:
PoLoned |
for KGB to know about such base -- that base. We knew it
in '50's when I worked in GRU at the Navy, in 1950, '5l1, '52.
We knew every base and in Japan, at this Atsugi Base, and we
knew what kind of airplanes had been. We didn't know about
U-2, no. Sure, it is very interesting, but when Oswald

applied, requested to stay in the Soviet Union, ,we didn't kno

Mr. Klein. And you didn't ask him if he had any kind of |
information about that when he wanted to defect, is that
correct?

Mr. Nosenko. No.

cee eer ene nine nares meee ee ~ : a0

Mr. Klein. And you told us that one reason that no one
was working on Oswald was because all of your people were
concentrating on the American Exhibition in 1959, is that

correct?

.Mr. Nosenko. , Yes, sir. Not only American. Exhibition,

there were other tourists and among them were interesting

Mr. Klein. You told us yesterday that things didn't --

Mr. Nosenko. T can explain you.why, because an American
Exhibition in Moscow was by the information which KGB had, i
I don't know how much it's right, how mach it's wrong, but it
was suspected quite a number of people from American intelli-
gence community who were working on American Exhibition in

Moscow, and when the work is going on against such targets,


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on each case, because it is very serious target.
Mr. Klein. Do you know what date Lee Harvey Oswald
came to the Soviet Union?
“Mtr, Nosehko.: -No, sir, I do not.
MeKlein. Mr. Chaizman, I would ask that this
. The Chairman. , Without objection.

(The document referred to was

for identification.)
Mr. Klein. ‘Looking at this document --
Mr. Nosenko. Right.
The Chairman. pia counsel want to identify for the
record how the document has been. marked?

The Clerk. JFK-F-2. a ee

Mr. Klein. Looking at this document, does it say on)

top "Visa and Registration Office, Interior Department,

Executive. Committee of the Moscow City Council"?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. ?

Mr. Klein. Do you recognize ‘that. type. of document?

“Mr. Nosenko. Yes. It is from Department of giving» Visa

of Internal Affairs of Moswcow City.?

Mr. Klein. And does this appear to be an authentic

it is not one officer; it isa big’ amount of people involved

i
document be marked for “identification and shown to the meses
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marked as JFK Exhibit No; _F-2

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and Registrations, which is working under auspices of Directorate

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document, an authentic copy of the document?

Mr. Nosenko. Sure.

dak

Mr. Klein. Looking at Number 8, does it say what

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date Lee Harvey Oswald came. to the Soviet Union for the first

|
| sf Sime? we
| ; | Mr. Nosenko. October, 1959.
' i
| Mr. Klein.. October what?
1
| Mr. Nosenko. October 16, 1959. _
9 | Mr. Klein. I would ask that this document be marked for
| identification, Mr. Chairman.
h
th The Chairman. Without objection.
12 Would the clerk indicate for the record? |
7 i3 The Clerk. JFK-F-3, Mr. Chairman. |
foo? H : : |
bo is | ' (The document referred to was
: \ i
15: marked as JFK Exhibit No. F-3
i : i
16 | for identification.)
i . }
| Mr. Klein. Looking at the newspaper article clipping, on
7 the right hand side, with the heading "U.S. Fair in Soviet |
9 | Jammed at Close," do you se that? |
| | Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. |
| Mr. Klein. And what is the date of that story? |
2 | Mr. Nosenko. - The date is September 4, | |
3 .
Ne 8 i Mr. Klein. Are you aware of the fact that the American
! ; ;
a Exhibition ended on September 4, more than a month before |
df “ Oswald came to the Soviet Union? |
| | Eat gaa, az; |
| Ta i

50955 Bocld: 32277209 Page 13

‘a

; | - Ww? Ba’ i
- | Mr. Nosenko. Me. Klein, ‘I would like you to ask when
toy . .
a , 7 Americans who were |working for this Exhibition left Moscow.
, 3 | Mr. Klein. I will ask you another question.
@ | Yesterday, when ‘I asked you if things got back to |
a 7 normal once the fair Ended, aid you say yes?
: ; | Mr. Nosenko. No, till they were Leave the Soviet i.
; 7 | Onkon. No. They are the same targets. Okay, you are right,
ptt is closed September 4th, but does it change the importanch
| of these people against whom KGB was working? They were
0 : still in- Moscow.
| ; - Mr. Klein. Do you recall yesterday my asking you, did 7
| 12 | things in your department get back to normali:: once the fair |.
a ended, and do you recall saying yes? |
wl Mr. Nosenko. Well, I meaning fair ended when left all :
1s the people inyolved in work on Anerican Exhibition, Americans
1s when they left, and they were staying quite a long time i
i i _
4? | after it was closed. -It was closed for visits for Soviet
7 citizens, but. it took quite a time for them to leave. ;
7 of. Mr. Klein. You also testified yesterday that Lee e Harvey,
| _ 29 | oswaid vas allowed to stay in the Soviet Union after he said |
| - : 2 | that he was. going to Preat himself if they sent him home.
go. on
22 — told us that’ he slashed his wrists and two psychiatrists i
Ls 3 examined him and. both found him mentally unstable: a
a i
i

Mr.-Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Klein. What was the point of having the two

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50955 ‘Docla: 32277209 ©

‘the next plane | out. of ‘Russia and thereby ended their ‘whole

. you don' te: know what, he, will do.

| like that?

i
i
1,

Mr. Nosenko. ‘I think’ simply to be assured that it was

right found decision, ‘concerning this person. | Two ) independen .

Mr. Klein. After they examined him, the decision was |

made to let him stay; is that ‘correct?

Mr. Nosenko. It is not because of the examination

he was allowed to stay, Mr. Klein. ‘You are a little bit mixin

things. He was allowed to stay because KGB and Soviet ‘Govern

ment had come to the conclusion if this person will kill

hurt the starting, the warming of Soviet-American relations.

himself it will bereaction in newspapers, which can in any “|
ls

Mr. Klein. The Soviets were worried he would kill himse
in the Soviet Union?
r.. Nosenko. Right, if they would not allow him to
i

stay. i. “4

Mr. Klein. Could the KGB have taken him and put him on

problem - with Lee Harvey Oswald? °
Mr. Nosenko. , Tt is a very sensitive question. He- ‘can.

jump out of car. ts: he: decided, ‘if he is mentally unstable, |

Mrs. Klein. Do ‘you ‘think the KGB aidn' 't do that pecause|

Mr. Nosenko. -Simply a mentally unstable person, they

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30955 Docid: 32277209 Page 16

“14

didn't want to go-it on any such action.

Mr. Klein. They would rather keep him in the Soviet

a iF
Union? i
t
I

Mr. Nosenko. No, they would rather prefer they washed
their hands, Mr. Klein; they are not making decision, KGB.
In, Soviet Union decisions are made by the Central Committee

i

of the Communist Party, and General Secretary and Politburo,

not by “KGB. - KGB a servant of the Politburo and Central Commit
tee communist Barty. | ° |
| fre.. Kteine. coing by the facts as you have told them |
to this Committee -- |
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. yo
Mr. Klein. ~- why wasn ‘t he put on a plane and sent |

back to America?

t

; |
; . : i
Mr. Nosenko. KGB washed their hands. Then from Tntourigt

it was given information Ministry of Foreign Trade; Ministry |
of Foreign Trade reported to the Soviet Government. As I said,

I assumed the Chairman was surely asked; he told his opinion

of the KGB, and up to the Soviet Government how they viould
‘decide.
Mr. Klein. Could he have been brought to the U.S.

“Embassy and told them he is an Anerican, "You take care of

him; we don't want him"? >
Mr. Nosenko. Ttcan be done, sure. It can be done, but

it wasn't done.

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1 | Mr. Klein. Instead -théy ‘elected to allow him to stay |
3 ! indefinitely in the: Soviet union and they have to worry su
4 | him every single day, what an unstable American would do, is
4 | that correct? |
8 | Mr. Nosenko. They didn't allow, KGB didn't allow. Sovigt
5 | sovernnens allowed. |
“4 i Mr. Klein. The facts as you have testified to them are |
8 | that the KGB allowed this mentally unstable person to stay |
: ;
) | in Russia, and they sent him to Minsk to. live and work in a
| |
4 iG | radio factory. Then the KGB allowed this mentally unstable |
ij { individual to marry a Soviet woman, and then this mentally |
12 | unstable individual was allowed to joina hunting club where |
43 | he had access to a gun. ;
ia Can you think of any other cases in all the time you
1s | worked in the KGB where a mentally unstable person was
i |
a treated in thiskind of ‘manner? . |
"y Mr. Nosenko. I told you I do not know any other cases |
ay of mentally unstable, excluding one code clerk, American, vas |
" also mentally i11; he was delivered in Soviet Union. I heard |
mae I never have worked with him, I never have. seen him. 3
| And the thing is, I am sorry,. but you are putting and stressing
ac number of questioning, and it sounds so peculiar. “What does
“ ae mean, KGB allow him to marry? | |
“| Mr. Klein, in the Soviet Union there is by degree of |
se 4

i

i Presidium of Supreme Soviet U.S.S.R. a law allowing marriage of
i

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‘ing seeing classified material. In these cases, KGB will try

=

Soviet citizens.with foreign. A foreigner can marry a Soviet),
- 7
citizen, by the law. There is not a thing that KGB can in any

way try not to give, not to make it possible, but this is in

cases when the person who is marrying a foreigner worked in

‘some senSitive place, let's say, in missiles, rocket

industry production, was in process of :any place of his work

to: put different type of fences. But it is unlawful. In
accordance with Soviet law, marriage is allowed; he doesn" "0
need to ask permission of Soviet Government or anyone. And hi
wife, Marina, wasn't working in any place which was sensitive
from the point of view of ‘Soviet security. |

Mentally unstable it doesn't mean that he is raving

mad; it is'mentally unstable.

spoken to when he first said he wanted to “defect but even after

the decision was made to allow him to remain in the Soviet
Union, still nobody from the KGB spoke to him, is that correct?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.
Mr. Klein. You also tetified to the extensive resources:
that were devoted to put physical and technical surveillance |
: i

on “Oswald. You told us the men involved, the time involved,

the facilities involved? . te

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Klein. ‘Do you find great contradiction --

|
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Mr. Klein. You testified that, not only was Oswald not
|
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al
i

1 . Mre Nosenko. - No, sir..+

>| Mr. Kiein. -- in the fact .that, on the one hand, you

3 , put all these resources into following Oswald around, trying to

a

see who he talked to and what he does and, on the other hand, |

A
- | you don't even have a.person go and talk to him and ask him,
‘ | "Tell us your background; tell us about yourself."

a.

Is. there any contradiction? -

Mr. Nosenko. Even in the United States, yes, sure, for

oad

you, for me just now American citizens, yes, sure, but there,

4)

no.

Mr. Klein. They don't talk to people there?

Mr. Nosenko.. They can talk and cannot to talk; but I

wie

120
13 | don't see contradiction there. ‘Anyone; any foreigner who, wilt
is | be staying, even if this defector not on his own, but, let's |
; |
1s | say, KGB pushed him to stay, to defect, he still will be watched
i ee _: |
18 | ana on him-wiIl be put this same type of work that was 4
a put on Oswald, not less. | |
138 [. = Mr. Klein. You talk.about their society is different than
oy. bay ee ; :
2) ours, Is it unusual that they allow an American to defect i
«| and. live there without ever questioning him, to ask nim if ne
1 is! an intelligence agent?
7 4 2 Mrs Nosenko. . on the ‘contrary, no doubt, let's say hee. !
o 7 was intelligence agent, what he ‘will itell them that he was ;
| sent with mission’ as intelligence. agent? Why to scare him? |

Let him live how he wants. We will be watching him. He

50955 Docld:32277209 -Page, 19

seenet eerie ene Gene oni

eof

show by his behavior, by ‘his

will

ARG

your testimony?

dja

Mr. Nosenko. “In this case they didn't speak with him

woot

di, he was mentally. unstable.
‘Mr. Klein.. You.testified that you read the reports of

two. psychiatrists who examined Lee Harvey Oswald at the

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

i

7) Noeptiat asses he cut his wrist, is that. correct?
|
|

Mr. Klein: You said both found him mentally unstable?

ive Gai

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

Mr. Klein. You told us in geat detail how this

if | decision was made to have these psychiatrists examine him.

1s I would ask thatithis document be marked for
identification. —

avi

The Chairman. ‘The clerk will identify for the record

marked as JFK Exhibit No. F-4

for identification. )

ao

50955 Doclda: 32277209 Page 20

i Mr. Klein. ‘They purposely don't speak to him; is that

s | because he didn't present interest for the KGB and because -

8-1 the number appearing on the document.

9 The Clerk. It will be JFK-F-4.

20 (The document referred to was:
2]

~ | Mr. Klein. Have you ever seen that document before?
Ht ; a = ; a
4g ree ;
iy Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. I haven't seen it.
“ | Mr. Klein. Were ‘you aware that the Soviet.Government.:: :
|
4

ee acess me nen en ne en et en nen ary enntaeen
*


Se net”

50955 DociId:

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~e

EEE io Wai ELIS GE ch oe

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oe:

provided certain documents to the Warren Commission in 1964?

Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. T wasn't aware of this.

Mr. Klein. Looking at that document in front of you -~

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Klein. -- is that-a hospital record?

Mr. Nosenko. oh, yes, sure. It is a hospital record.

Mr. Klein. . And whose hospital record? Does it have a
name on it?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir... It is from Botkin Hospital.

Mr. Klein. Whose name is it?

Mr. Nosenko. Lee Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Klein. Does it say what date he was admitted?

Mr. Nosenke. Discharged, admitted 23rd, discharged
28th.

Mr. Klein. What year is that?

Mr. Nosenko. October of 1959.

Mr. Klein. And does it have on the bottom the diagnosis
why he was in the hospital?

Mr. Nosenko. Incised wound of one-third of the left

forearm.

Mr. Klein. And that date, October of 1959, is that when

Oswald first came to the Soviet Union and cut his wrist?
Mr. Nosenko. I cannot tell you dates, sir. I do not
remember.

Mr. Klein. You have in front of you the other document

euecaee pete seeennnen seine cee niadee wine enien son evens cqavtinmeny anwiisy tans mart ae gimme sana ame iinne mimes mand ei ontmcerntan 2 yee

aa

on

re)

‘what date? i

tell us if this is the hospital report from when Lee Harvey

which told -- Number. 8 ~— what cate he- ‘came to the Soviet union.

Is that still there? |
Mr. Nosenko. No, Sir. This is admittance to the hos- |
pital and dischargement. _ : |
Mr. Klein. . Number 8 |

\

Mr. Nosenko. Arrival, October 16.

Mr. Klein. And the date on the hospital admittance is

Mr. Nosenko. Twenty-third of October.
Mr. Klein. And would you turn to the hospital admittance
form, the one I just gave you, to the third page, please?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes.

‘Mr. Klein. And do you, see where it says "History of
Present Illness"?
Mr. Nosenko. No, I don't see.

Mr. Klein. On the third page?

Mr. Nosenko. -I have the third page.

Mr. Klein. It has Number 6 on the top of the page, but
it's the third page on the document.
Mr. Nosenko. oh, Number 6, History of Present Illness.
Yes. Just a second.

Mr. Klein. Would you glance through that and would you

Oswald cut his wrist and was taken to Bot;kin Hospital?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

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al asa pin Cie bain tteen de man

50955 Docla

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page. It has a 13 on the right hand side.

BS

+
Do you see that page?
| ves

Mr.. Nosenko. ‘Yes, sir.”

da

r.Klein. The next to the last page.

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

<a

Mr. Klein. And do you see where it says, two-thirds —
| Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. ,
Mr. Klein. Would you read what is said under that?

Mr. Nosenko. "His mind is clear; perception is correct;

.. hallucination or deliriums. He answers the questions

| legible and logically; he has a firm desire to remain in the
1 . . . : . .

{
|
|

Soviet Union; no psychiatric symptoms were noted; the patient

is not dangerous for other people; his condition permits him,
to stay in Psychiatric Department by an order of the Assistant
to the Chief PHysicians, Dr. Kornika. The patient is
ievansferred to the Seventh Ward.

ig Mr. Klein. Is there ‘anything in there to indicate he is

i
t .
7 Mr. Nosenko. _Here I do not sée.

' os ;

Mr. Klein. Does that. Feport “indicate that he “was normal?
i . : ”
i

Mr. Nosenko. Here I do, not see what I have seen. But
oy lo

this | you receive from ‘the ‘soviet Government, - and if you think

| : :

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f

you received the true’ things} what was in. file, you are wrong,

32277209 |

| -- Mr. Klein. | Now,. would you turn to the next to the last:
i Do :

|

if

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of the way to the bottom, "Psychiatric Department" underlined?

|

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Klein.
>! Mr. Klein. And that document,..according::to you, is that
5 | not an authentic -copy? | |
7 Mr. Nosenko. KGB can prepare you any document. Take “|
5] the material, or ask the doctors who are cooperating with KGB |
P and they will prepare you any document. | .

Mr. Klein. I -am not asking you what they can do. Are.

you testifying that this document is not authentic, it is not}

ite ‘document? | bo he
ye i poe ah po

|
\
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Mr. Nosenko. this document never was in ‘the file of “the,
a . _ \
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Mr..Klein. $0 --
ea er & See oo

Mr. Nosenko. This ‘I testify.
Mr. Klein. -- it is your tetimony that the KGB sent us)

a I
a phony document?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.
Mr. Klein. You testified before this Committee that the: ‘e
f was periodiciphysical surveillance of Lee Harvey Oswald which
was ordered by Moscow, to be carried out in Minsk?

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Klein. And you testified in detail about that,

and you told us how the physical surveillance consisted of

+

following Oswald for a month ‘or month and a. half at a timé,

and there werea number of people that would be involved, is’

3
a
=k

that correct?

cele a woe teen nce ee ee cree ae eemepgr neem .

50955 Docld:32277209

Page 24

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Mr. Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Klein. It was a big operation?
Mr. Nosenko. Big operation? No, it's not a big

operation.

Mr. Klein. There were a number of people involved, worer
there?

Mr. Nosenko. It is not a big operation. It is routine.
In KGB it is a routine, nothing serious. It's not an |

operation even. It's surveillance, it's not an operation.

Mr. Klein... And have you ever stated that the only cover
: j
|

age of Oswald during his stay in Minsk consisted of periodic

checks at his place of employment, inquiry of neighbors and

associates and review of his mail? Have you ever stated
that was the only coverage of Oswald in Minsk? -
Mr. Nosenko. I stated before, and I stated it to you

yesterday, and I state now, that the order was given, and I

have seen it -~ to cover him by surveillance periodical, to

cover him by an agent watching in places of his living, places

|
_!
he is working, control over’ his correspondence and control of |

his telephone conversations. i

AD.

Mr. Klein. My question is, have you ever stated that the
only coverage was checking at his places of employment and

his neighbors and associates, and not say anything about

periodic, physical surveillance?

Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I cannot tell you what I stated. I wds


coed

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30955 DoctId: 32277209

.they want to interrogate us.

‘interrogations; hundreds.

-you were questioned by the CIA during that period, is that

the number appearing on the..document:

24

for quite a big period of time, quite a few years, interrogat sd,
by hours, and in different types of conditions, including’
hostile conditions." |

: Mr. Klein. “chat'was biythe CIA?

Mr. Nosenko. Where they asked questions in such form’

ee |) eee

which later my answer will be interpreted in any way, however

Mr. Klein. That was by CIA?

Mr. Nosenko. And I cannot tell you what I did say. I

cannot remember: dates. You must understand, it's hundreds of
Mr. Klein. This Period that you are telling us about,

correct?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, Sure.

4

Mr. Klein. Were you questioned. during that period by
FBI?

Mr. Nosenko.. I questioned by FBI in vebruary, yes. |
Mr. Klein. At. this time I would ask that this gocunent |
be marked for identification and shown to the witness.

The Chairman. The clerk will indicate. for the’ record

{
; fo.
The Clerk. Exhibit SEK S. Se Co
a . oo

a
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I.
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as JFK Exhibit No. F-5 for


laa RABRASH AA

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2

np

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| ' Gaentification.)
2 | Mr, Klein. | These hostile interrogations you just alluded
3 | to, did they lead you to state other than the truth to these
il interrogators? : i ao |
7 . Me Nosenko. I was answering questions which were put |
a : ' -
s| to me. |
,| Mr. Klein. . Did you ever not tell the truth? |
. ; : : ]
7 Mr. Nosenko. No, I was telling the truth.
: i
9 : Mr. Klein. I would direct your attention -- |
10 | Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. |
| Mr. Klein: .. Just a moment . Before you you have a 4
32 | Federal Bureau of Investigation report, is that correct? |
i a ; |
13 ; Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.”
ie Mr. Klein. Iwould direct your attention.to page 29 of 4
| : oe ke
“15 that report. ° } ee |
ee
16 i Mr. Nosenko. Right. a - ,
7 Mx. Klein. The last paragraph, beginning with, "Nosenkg
i ;
a stated" -- it's underlined.; Would you please read that |
nie to us? |
a Mr. NOsenko. "Nosenko stated that in view of instructiog
a :
| from the KGB Moscow, no. active interest could be taken in |
foie : : ‘ a - . coat i
* | oswata in Minsk without obtaining prioz approval from KGB. |
© | in Moscow. According’ to Nosenko, no such approval was ever
24 |

i
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j ‘ . ‘ . . © t
i requested or granted,.and based on his experience, he opined |
that the only coverage of Oswald during this stay in Minsk


sect neko Seah a Roped eld Siena

50955 DociId:

P SECRET 28
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consisted of periodic” checks of his places of employment, |e

ey
“a
2

ad

) inquiries of neighbors and associates, and review of his mail
Mr. Klein. pid you make that statement?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes; sir. What do you find here wrong?

4 |
o Mr. Klein. Does that statement say anything about
i oO :
“| physical surveillance?
{ .

Mr. Nosenko.. No, it didn't.

Mr. Klein. Did you forget to tell them about the physical

surveillance?
Mr. Nosenko. Maybe I forget; maybe they didn't put;

I do not know...

Mr. Klein. Do you recall speaking to agents Poptanich

| and Gheesling on March 3rd and 4th, 1964?
_ :
Mr. Nosenko. I cannot tell you. f do remember the date
: : . : |
no. ae "remember I: was, speaking with. _agents from FBI.

Mr. Klein. ~ when’) you ‘spoke to them, did you recall that
I they spoke to you at. that time, March 3rd and 4th, about
| Lee Harvey, Oswald?

ok
, *

Mr. Nosenko. I told’ you, they were speaking with me -
about Oswald, but I cannot tell you the date whem.
Mr. Klein. Was it in March 19642.

Mr. .Nosenko.. They. were speaking with me -- February

and the beginning of March jof 1964.

w.
4

Mr. Kleins.-And did they tape the conversations?

23.

Mr. Nosenko. -Yes, they vere taping all conversations.

32277209 Page 28


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a committee such as this investigating the assassination? .

(50955 Decld:32277209 Page 29 ~

Mr...
talking?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir).

Mr. Klein. Did they ever’ show you those notes? :

Mr. Nosenko. No.
Mr. Klein. Were you aware that the statements you-were

ni : | . see - an . . 7 .
making to them were going to be written down in to a report?

Mr. Nosenko. Sure. °

1
1
'
|
'

Mr. Klein. Did you ever have an opportunity to see the

‘Wire Nosetiko. No. nie ‘one which was sent to the.
‘warren Commission, this I have seen. y
. ; :

ue. Klein. Were you abaxe that the report would be put
“hh your file? | : | |
Mr. Nosenko. Must be. |
Mr. Klein. Were you aware that report would be shown ko,

H

Mr. Nosenko. I didn't! know that it would be created, th

Committee, bacause it was 1964.

Mi. Klein. wu didn't iknow that?

Mr. Nosenko . No. ‘Did! you know that this Committee —-
in 1964 -- will be existing) in 78, "77?

ode. eae

Mr. Klein. “And were you ‘telling them the truth when. you!

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told ‘them that the only” covertige of Oswald, and listing these © things: and |
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not telling them about the physical surveillance, was that thé
. _ : b, . . . .
truth you told them? 7
. . ! ;
Mr. Nosenko. Well, I told them that there was done the

Work against Oswald; it was: ordered, passive type of work ,

! : . .
it's called passive. Whenever it's ordered not to make an

oo ae .
approachment, not to make aj contact, not to make a recruit~
. ' ° ie ;

i; ment, this is passive.

Anything when enters besides whatever is done, contact,

approachments, recruitment,, attempt to recruit, it is
immediately called active.
| .

Mr. Klein. Looking at, that report, did you tell. them
about the physical surveillance which you told this Committee!
about yesterday? 3 |

Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I ao not see here, but I have no

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date you said, maybe. I didn't mention but I was telling
them about surveillance. | Se _

; |
Mr. Klein. Didn't youl tell us that you always told the |
!

truth and told everything you knew when you spoke to the FBI
and the CIA? : : | . |
.Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir’

Mr. Klein. If they would have asked you, "Was there ©

physical surveillance?" -- i"
. “|

Mr.‘Nosenko. Yes, I will answer yes, 1t was.

Mr. Klein. -- you would have answered yes?

i
ad

50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 30 ‘


1 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, six: | |
~~ 2) Mr. Klein. You also testified before this Committee that
3 | in accord with the orders from Moscow that there was technical

a 4 | surveillance, and you told las in detail about how they tapped
5 his phone and they would record it and make copies of it

‘| and gave it to a certain person. |

7 | Again, drawing your attention to page 29. of that same |

a Paragraph, does that say anything about the technical sur- :

| veillance that you told us about? |

io | Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. |

7 Mr. Klein. Did you forget? |

Ro Mr. Nosenko. But, if you ask, even an agent of FBI; |

| I doubt it, no. In KGB control of correspondence, control of

7 telephone, it's not big deal. It's giving order to control '

7 télephone can be given by Chief of Section, not speaking of |

1 Chief of Department, not speaking of Chief of Directorate, |

"| and not speaking to receive a warrant from the judge. contrqi

" of correspondence can be signed, permission to put control |

a over correspondence can be |done by the Deputy Chief of |

am Section even. ' |

aa Do: you understnd what I want to tell ‘you, it is absolutely

22}

7 considered, KGB, nothing important. |
“ vl Mr. Klein. Is it a big deal to check periodically at :
a someone's place of employment and talk to their neighbors? Is

that a big deal?

ES i
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50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 31


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$0955 Docld: 32277209 Page 32

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RET

Mr. Nosenko. No. {

7

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Mr. Klein. But you told them -about that, didn't you? |
i
|

Mr. Nosenko. I: ‘tried simply to describe them what

kind of, not to take active|, -- “what does it mean, passive tyPP

7 of coverage of the target?

Mr.. Klein. “If -they-wouldshave-asked you was there any

l
: ; |
technical surveillance, then would you have told them?

Mr. Nosenko. I would have said they were .told, even
. | Lo
7 _word for word, in this doctment said not the. technical surveil

ance. They have a certain terminology. Let's say surveil-
a . | oT
lance, it's called to lead,: the «measurement.NAN, “and: to:
;

control. ote lephonecto.:head.thecmeasyrement M.

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Mr. Klein. If they would have said, "Was there any

technical surveillance of Oswald?" would you have said
|
"ves"?

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1
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'
1
‘

Mr. Nosenko. Sure.

Mr. Klein,. You also testified to this Committee that

the KGB would have had to have: known about ‘Marina Oswald,

you said, by the end- of the month ' they would have a batch
of papers? |
1

; a 4 ; a
Mr. Nosenko. You told me, if she had seen him, you
_ i ; ; . .

something metnioned, 15, 13.

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Mr. Klein. Because surveillance was on Oswald, they wee
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have had to pick her up?

Mr. Nosenko. t cannot ‘tell you it was.in the moment whe


i we L i ‘ ; oi
7 os ~31 !

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he was seeing her or not. You said assume that he met her
|

16.and 13, and it became known to KGB through surveillance. I
+ . 7 i -

uw

said by the end of month that at least something will have on

an

. ‘
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her, who is she, where she is working, where she studied, where

5 she work. : i : :

da

7
& | Mr. Klein. They would know that through the surveillance

ae
on Oswald? ,
:

ON

Mr. Nosenko. “The fact will be known through surveillance; |

|
or
9 |. then. through other outfits of KGB they will find whatever
10 F poseibie on her. i ;
ak .
YW i Mr. Klein.. Were you ever asked the following question»
12 | and did you giye the following answer: |
_ iG | "Question: Why: wouldn't she --~ referring to Marina -- have
@ 7 been investigated when she first met Oswald? |
15 | "Answer: They did not now she was a friend of oswald |.
. ; oo
16 until they applied for marraige. There was no surveillance ,
W on Oswald to show that he knew her."
1a i Were you ever asked that question and did you give that |
el answer? : | |
‘ H :
a Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not remember my questions, and

Mr. Klein. I would ask that this document be marked for

hm
WY

n | answers.
Zz] .

|

i

identification, please, and, jshown to the witness.

The Chairman. “he cle he will identify for the record

i

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Ps

document.

4.

the number appearing on the

i)
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fhe Ee eg a
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1 | “° The Clerk. UFK-F-6. | |
! 7 . me . - H i
| Loe - ;
on 2 | (The document referred to was
; aa |
3 | (marked as JFK Exhibit No. -F-6 for |
i i !
@ 4 | identification.) |
|. | re |
5) “Mr. Klein. Looking at fast document, have you ever seen |
i i
‘| it before? i |
of ' i
7 Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. | |
| Mr. Klein. You have never’ seen that before?
3 é
ok ; ; |
9 I Mr. Nosenko. I never have seen it before. |
le i
j : . . ‘ : . ce :
10 | Mr. Klein. And is that/a report that says on the cover, |
i . : { :
Al — po 7
| "Memorandum for the Record; Subject: Followup Report on the
2 | Oswald Case; Source: AEDONOR." Was AEDONOR your code name, -' |
Lo | ;
|
13 | at one time?
=
iii 14 Mr. Nosenko. I do) not; know. |
i
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is | Mr. Klein. "Date of Interview: 3 July 1964." Does it | |
it, . ; | : j
| : . :
16 | say that on the cover? : :
a
{ i i |
a Mr. Nosenko. Yes, Sir. |
| J 4
} | . .
Pa Mr. Klein. And turning, to the very last page, page 18.--.
19 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. |
| of
20 | Mr. Klein. Does it say, "Thomas A. Ryan"? . {
: ‘ ‘ : |
- | Mr. Nosenko. Yes... i.
4 | . |
\ a ; i : 1
- 2 i Mr. Klein. "SR/CI/KGB"? . 7
; a | : . | ;
©. “4 Mr. Nosenko. Yes. * :
7 | , P| _ | |
36 ‘Mr. Klein. Did you ever hear of a man named Thomas A. !
Hl : |
2 { i
asf Ryan?
= A H !
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Sa 50955  Docld: 32277209

TOP. SECRET s

Mr. Klein. -- when you spoke about Oswald?

|

Mr: Nosenko. Yes. .

Com 23

'

\
. 1 “. (Mr. Nosenko. No, I do not know a man Thomas A. Ryan.
@ 2 Mr. Klein. Do you recall speaking to a man named
3 | Thomas Ryan? |
aa r Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. :
ag 5 “Mr. Klein. Would you turn. in this document to page 9.
On page 9, the last question’ and’ answer, would you read the
° question for us, and read the answer?
7 'Mr. Nosenko. ° "Why wouldn't she have been investigated
8 ‘when she. first met Oswald?"
9 . "They didn't know she was a friend of Oswald until they
10 || applied for marriage. There! was no surveillance on Oswald
117 || to show that he knew her." |
0 Mr. Klein. Were you ever asked that question and did you
- ever -- : |
= Mr. Nosenko. I do not wemember, sir. But if it is,
a it must be asked and I this answered.
1s Mr. Klein. Was that the truth?
16 | Mr. Nosenko. As far as| I remember, those conditions in
V7 which I was asked, better ask where I was in this period of
- 18 | time, what conditions I was kept, and what type of interrogatipns
19 | were going on. - :
0 Mr. Klein. Did you tell us yesterday that you always
n told the truth? so
3 Mr. Nosenko. Yes..

Mr. Klein. - Was this question relating to Oswald?

e *

Mr. Nosenko. I was answering what I could.

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HW 50955 Docld:32977209 (Page 35

ye Beak fis eh: :
BYALA 4

Mr. Klein. Is that the; truth, that they didn't --

Mr. Nosenko. It's how it is put, how it‘is put. You see,

'
‘

again, why wouldn't she have! been investigated. Here must be

as

ba

question was in this form. The investigation, not. the checkup

ba

of her, but, let's say, invitation for conversation, something

yes this kind, it's some kind of here misunderstanding on both
? | parts, ‘that would bé. mine. and interrogator.
8 Ib. Mr. Klein, It is an inaccurate transcript? |
9 - coe. Nosenko: I consider many, many things are

OO ot
10 inaccurate.
7 Mr. Klein. ‘Is that trahscribea accurately?
12 Mr. Nosenko. I do.not know, sir.

.. 13 Mr. Klein. That answer, do you think it is transcribed
iH i
@ ig i accurately, that that's your! answer?
15 Mr. Nosenko. -Well, I ean only explain only one thing.
!

16 | Let's say there was KGB found out that he had an acquaintance,

{
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i7 Marina Prusakova, They were not married. They didn't know --
i F
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1
4

investigation? Checkup in archives of KGB of Byelorussia, and
On the basis. whatever kind of material on her will be found.

i
Let's say, if ‘sher was ever on trial by militia, under arrest.

Ir didn't apply for marriage. What kind of first will be
t
4

If militia had any material, they can expand further. They

‘
+ :
: 2 can also send checkup in the place of her =~ one, it's in one
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order, to give us the picture of the character of the target,

3
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check on him in place of his work and check in place of his living,

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“HW 50955 Docld:32277209 Page. -36-


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in one order. | : a .
~ 2 | But more, farther investigation, the ‘true investigation --|
7 this is ‘called checkup -- wiht be studied and they will start
& 4 | when they see something, let's say, suspicious in behavior of | ;
° 5 Oswald and this his connection. .
6 “In case of Marina, when they found out that they are going
to marry; sure,, they will bel more, farther investigation,

i

area

From -thispoint of view I was answering this question.

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j Cae a nt ‘ . . ‘ , ,

3. thorough invetigation;  but.’before it will only be checkup.

a . .

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40 Mr. Klein. Let me make it simple.
YW i Me . Noseniko. 7 Right.
| Mr. Klein. If the question was asked exactly as it appears)
} 1
13 here, "Why wouldn't she nave been investigated when she first |.
;
ee ig | Met Oswald?" would this be your answer? Is that a correct |
: . i
13 answer as it appears here? | |
‘| Mr. Nosenko. Well, it jappears here, but _I do not-retiéiiber.
wi Sure, I answered and tHis was question, but, gentlemen -~_
iy - ;
2 | Mr. Klein. Was this true? This says "There was no

surveillance on Oswald to. show that he knew her" -- is that

right or wrong?
|

Mr. Nosenko. This is what I answered, yes. It is right.

It is written here. |

Mr. Klein. You remember answering that?

Mr. Nosenko. No.

1

Mr. Klein. How do you ‘know you answered that?

Ed

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WW 50955 DocId: 32277209 Page. 87,

eo
: oF a
tod “oleae otra
- Nosenko. You are giving me official document... /
~ 2 o MY. Klein. “You have no recollection of answering this? |
3 | ME.-Nosenko’. Sir, I do! ‘not have any recollection of |
®@ 4 interrogations, °. |
. ‘ { 7 : . o wo! 7
. 5 | | Mr. Klein. ‘If you answered that, were -you telling the |
6 truth?
7 Mr. Nosenko. I don't know. I answered. Must be. This

+
‘

. 84> is how I answered question.

H
i
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No

Mr. Klein. You testified to this Committee that the KGB

decided to have Lee Harvey Oswald examined by two psychiatrists

You told us about how it was decided, who decided it, where

Y

Sa ae

. if ; ; -
it was decided. Then they found Lee Harvey Oswald to be mental

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

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13 | unstable?
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15 | Mr. Klein. Have you ever been asked the following : |
16 | questions /and given the following answers: |
i ; | . een . {
W7 "Question: Did the KGB: make a-psychological assessment 7
i
1a | of Oswald? ;
| | .
‘. a L
‘| "Answer: No, nothing, but at the hospital it was also said
20 | he was not quite normal. The hospital didn't write that he was!
i i |
a | madi, just that he is not normal.
a | ; . . | . . '
5 39 "Question: Did the hospital authorities conduct. any 2
a ; Loe i . ; of
eo 13 psychological testing? | i
u | "Answer: I.don't think'so. There was no report like this."
i . a oo |
oy ask Mr. Nosenko. No, I told that there was opinion of . | |
it |.
| '
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50955 DBocld: 32277209

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no 37

wont

psychiatrists that hewas mentally unstable.

Mr. Klein. Is what I read to you correct?

4.¥

Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not know whether it is correct or

i

dn

wrong. Ijam answering.you what I know.
: |
Mr. Klein. Did you ever make a statement like that?

Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember statements for five years,

interrogation.
Mr. Klein. I would direct your attention to the Ryan

Report.
Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
Mr. Klein. Page 2
Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
Mr. Klein. Would you read for us the first and second
_

questions| and answers, please.

Mr. Nosenko. "Did the KGB make psychological assessment

té | of Oswald?"

"No, nothing. But at the hospital it’ was also said he

"What was the Soviets’ opinion of Oswald's personality,

iv]
12 : was not quite normal... The hospital didn't write that he was
iH
1g mad:,. just that he was not normal, mentally unstable."
20 | Mr. Klein. Please keep’ reading.
3] Mr. Nosenko. "Did the hospital authorities conduct any
23 psychological testing?"
eh ak "I don't think so. where was no report like this.
r i . H
|

= ? what kind/of man did they think he was?"

A Py] Bt ae co i
SOOT. 7 a

ag a


: ae oe ie iy BS fq 8
i Had & CLUE |

; ue ; 38-
; "KGB throught he was of ‘no interest for the country or

{

the country."

{

|

|

: |

for the KGB, that he is not normal, that he should leave |

no)

, . I: : .
Mr. Klein: Did-you say anything in there about two
| .
“psychiatrists examining Oswald and about reading their reports

de

ars

-iwhich said-hé was mentally‘ anstable?. Did you say anything

|
i
Joos that there?

7 .°-Nosenko. Sir, I do pot remember what I said to them; |
¢ | but I would Like you. to find out the conditions in which interr-|
10 gations were done, how it was’ done, by what procedures, when
a [evo interrogators, ate seated. | I never knew any names -- they
1 [ever announced me names. =- Ghe-playing.part of bad guy and othet
83 good guy, and it starting slapping then, not physically but rT
! ; .
= , td |mean, psychologically and in conversation, turning question up-
vis ide down, powever they. would! Like, then this leave, another one
ie na start jin softer way. .
| Mr. Klein. When did this -~
a Mr. Nosenko. And I would not trust any of their documents
4g }in those pelriods of time. Up. to 1967 when we started from the

20 peginning, ito work, Mr. Bruce/Solie. That is the one thing.
“econ. my Knowledge of language was-very poor in '64. I didn’t

nderstand many questions, and none of them, excluding. Mr.

i

;

@. “3 peryabin, knew Russian language and Mr. Deryabin was ‘asking
| ;

q4 me only questions concerhing my biography “and this type of ques-
4 j ; ; ; oo 4 . ;
2g ition, but nonoperative —

; 50955 Docld: | 32277209

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1U0 UE d WEE. ee

= | 39
7 Mr. “Kilein. Do you have jany recollection of being asked
.
~ 2 | these questions and giving the answers that you just read to us?
3 | Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I told you, and I will tell, I do not
2 3 remember their questions, and Tr do not remember my answers; but
. 7 I tried tol be truthful with them. Then was period of time when.
| eft have seen that they were simply was laughing at me; I. rejected
7 | to answer Luestions, and whenever -they were asking,.I would
a answer, "I do not remember, 1 do not know; I do not remember." |
yf ite Rhein: “these answers, do they say "y do not know, |
ita do not ; remember" ‘ox do these ‘give responsive answers? |
np Mr. “Nosenko.: sir, I do |not trust this document ‘prepared
Ia | by | people in those years.. at. |
13 | Mr. Klein. [Is it your testimony that these might not .bé |
gy . id | accurate guestions and answers? . 7
i : i
1s | Mr. Nosenko. My opinion -- I cannot tell you exactly, I :
16 say might be. | : | 7
ary Mr. Klein. You testified --
a Mr. Nosenko. One more thing: If we are going into this,
9 a number of interrogations;: 1 was under drugs, and on me was |
; : :
20 pee a- number of drugs, and 1 know that, and hallucinations
31 and talking during night and ‘sodium and everything, even many |

22 others, and a number of things were absolutely incoherent.

r
t
i

Mr. Klein. This hostile interrogation. that you have been

[referring to, when did it begin:

2
nm
=,

Mr. Nosenko. Arrested ime 4th of “april, 1964, started .

2 teeta


_—
: ” : i
4 ; , . “40

| interrogate me in two days. They interrupted ~~ I don't know =|
7 2 I interrogate a month, two, made break; then again, then again
3 | period of no interrogation; then again interrogations, up to |
@ 3 | 24 hours, hot giving we possibility to sleep.
So Mr. Klein. And: ‘this i as all after April 4, 1964?

6 | Mr. Nésenko. ot Yes; ‘sir.

“That “is ‘why “Iwill -not “take as a document anything what

8 |concerns interrogations in hostile, absolutely hostile,

a

‘| situation. . on,
i
i

19 : ‘Mr. Klein. You testified in detail yesterday about the

cable which you ‘saw which was sent from Mexico City to the First}

nee
bY

(Chief Directorate in Moscow, and you testified that you “actually

t
ij
i

read that cable and that it told that Oswald was in Mexico. City |

eet”
tar

~ i G a ’ . % : 0
‘4 Jand he wanted permission for visa to come to the Soviet Union.

|
Do you remember reading that cable -and describing it for
. . Hy

ae)

1g jus in detail, how long it was?

7 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

ié ) Mr. Klein. Did you ever say to anyone that after Oswald

19 lwentcto Minsk, the next time you heard of him was in connection
vo leien Oswald's application to’ the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City:

4 ;
a4 fox a Soviet reentry visa, and you did not know how Mexico City
|

advised Moscow of.the subject's application; your knowledge

(a . 3 |resulted from an oral inquiry of your department ‘by M.I. Turalin,;
aa 4
i Did you ever say that, that you did not know how Mexico

2 -

City advised Moscow of Oswald's application?

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| Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember. I am telling you what |

satis
ar

eat
eS
Saray

I have seen, cable, what was told through Lieutenant i-Colonel

AleKseev:toltell to Tural'in the opinion of Second Chief Directorate

Seventh Department.

in.

Mr. Klein. I draw your attention to page 30 of the FBI

i
| report in front of you.

4
"| Mr. Nosenko: I do not have it.
am (Pause)
, |
94 Yes, sir.
. 1
ve Mr. Klein. On the top of page 30, read for us the under- |
of i
t i
if | lined section on the top, beginning "The next time” --
2 4 Mr. Nosenko. "The next time Nosenko heard of Oswald was
i
13 | in connection with Oswald's application to Soviet Embassy in
. I
© id Mexico City for a Soviet reentry visa. Nosenko did not know how
i |
as] Mexico City advised Moscow of subject's application. His
j |
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Nosenko's department had no interest in Oswala and they

16 knowledge resulted from an oral inquiry of Nosenko's department
\
17 4 by Turalin, Service No. 2,.Counterintelligence in Foreign
i
{ .
18 | Countries, First Chief Directorate. Nosenko recalled that Turalin
| } |
ig | had orally, contacted Vladimir Alexseev, Chief of Sixth Section
20 ot Nosenko's Tourist Department, with respect to Oswald.
|
|
1

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t
H
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zt! pecommended . that Oswald's request for reentry visa be denied,

| Nosenko couldn't recall when Oswald visited Mexico City in
|
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! connection with visa application."

}
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me fi Mr. Klein. Did you ever say this to an FBI agent?

“HW 50955 Bocld: 32277209" ‘Page


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Mr.

Mr.

say that?

Mr.

Mr.

Mr.

Mr.
would you

| date of

Mr.

Mr. Nosenko. This is what I answered them, how I remembered.

Mr.

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&

SUTE |.

Nosenko. Must be I said it,. it's here in document.

42

Klein. It says in here that Nosenko did not know how

| Mexico City advised Moscow of subject's application. Did you

Nosenko. Must be; I said this in this way.

Klein. And did you tell us that not only did you know

advised them by cable but that you read the cable?

Nosenko. This is what I recollection.

Kiein. Did you tell them the truth?
Nosenko. I was trying to tell what I remembered. |
Klein.: and this FBI report which you just read from,
look back on the first page and would you tell us the
thatreport?

Nosenko. Fifth of March, 1964.

Klein. March 5, 1964. Is that before April 4,

| Mr. Nosenko. Yes,sir.
i Mr. Klein. That was before any hostile interrogations
| seaan, is that correct?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
Mr. Klein. And at that time you said that you did not know
-anything about the cable, is that right?

|

Klein,

I have a question. Do you understand from what |

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- TOP. SECRET - a ae

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i | you understand that it is necessary time, time to settle psy-

@ q | chologically, he doesn't know how he will be living, what he w 11
be doing, and at the same time a person feels attitude on the

part of those who helped him to come CIA? I felt something

a 4
‘Eh going on.

5
Mr. Klein. -You testified to us today that you didn't
6 know how wrote the summary of Oswald's file in the First Depart-
, ;

ment. because you never had an opportunity to read it. Did you
8 | ever tell anyone that Fedroseve-and Matveev, Fre~d-r-o-s-e-v-e
9 | and M-a-t-v-e-e-v of the First Department, Second Chief

19 | Directorate, took the file and wrote a second "spravka", which
you told us was a summary?

Mr. Nosenko. Summary.

| ‘Mr. Klein. Did you ever tell anybody that?
. ‘8 | . Mr. Nosenko. Must be I told, it is again: right, because
a you see, not Fedroseve -- Fedroseve was Chief of First Depart-
138i ment, American Department, and I will repeat what I told you
16 | yesterday. Matveev has come to take file, but surely -Fedrosev
» who is Chief of American Department, he had given call to Chie
8 of Seventh Department. He was involved in this; that is why I
19 || mentioned him. He was Chief of First American Department.
. His deputy, Colonel Matveev, has come, and not alone; with him
nl was a couple of officers, has come and told that Gribanov
- | ordered and Fedroseve giving call to Department, we must take
. 2 it, and took. Who of them wrote, I do not know, -no .doubts ‘that Fedroseve. |
» | and Matveev. were" participated. in the preparation of documents.
24

| ~~ -TOP.SECRET

HW 50555 Docld:32277209 Page 45

age

They are responsible for First American Department.

Mr. Klein. So. you have an idea of who would have written,

tet

Mr. Nosenko. American Department, no doubts that this

de

cary

two will, ‘be participating or correcting. a a

|
|
i that. correct?
|
|
|
|

é | Mr. klein. But you didn't read that summary, is that righ?
al Mr. Nosenko..\ I do: not, remember reading the summary. |
ah Mr. Kleine Did you read it? Do you have any recollection |
¢ lof réading it? | |
i
a Mr. Nosenko.’ No, I haven't seen summary. |
i ;
ny Mr. Klein.» Are you positive that you didn't see that
rr) — - |
3 | Mr. Nosenko. I have seen summaries in the file of Oswald.
@ i Mr. Klein. Are you positive you didn't see. the summary |
., lweitten by the First Department after they took the file away? |
6 | Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember seeing. As I told you, | |
1
= haven't seen it. _
18 - Mr. Klein. You testified that Oswald was considered normal)
49 price to the time he cut his wrist, and even told us that you |
20 iwere surprised, you had no indication he would do something /
zy [like that. ; |
22 | Were you ever asked the following question, and did you: 7
|
i

igive the following answer:
}

“In what way was the Oswald case handled differently from


45

"Answer: The main difference is that he was not to be

a

Mr. Nosenko. This is what cases I know, who were staying.

da

_ 2 | aliowed to stay. He was considered to be not normal."
Mr. Klein. Did you ever say that he was considered not

wy

normal, referring to the period before he tried to commit suicide?

|
|
!
|
é | Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember; but if I said it, it's i
‘oj not right becuase we didn't know. that he was normal or not
3
S [normal. Up until the moment of he cut his wrist we started to |
2 | |
? | suspect.
i
19 | Mr. Klein. Did you ever say that he was considered not '
il ; ; i
H i
1) | normal? i
| |
Ry Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do. not remember. |
|
‘ : . . i
7 Mr. Klein. Well, if you would have said it, would it have |
cae : |
© |
i¢ | been correct?
i
is | Mr. Nosenko. No, it would not be correct, because he cannot
ET
a considered abnormal. We didn't know anything up till he
7. cut the wrist.
12 | Mr. Klein. You testified to this Committee that you were
19 | present at a meeting with the Chief of the Seventh Department

Chief of your section, Major Rastrusin, at that meeting, it was

1

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You told us where the meeting took place, told us who
]

was there. |

|
— .
71 | Secadec that Oswald should not be given permission to defect..
|
Mr. Nosenko. Right.

|

zie

Mr. Klein. You told us that Krupnov was not even in the

e& F weal
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wt r £
Lp : eg
Loft |B

50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 47

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1¢ i was wrong, not right, because Krupnov started participation only

1
46 7
1 | Seventh Department at that time? | |
- at Mr. Nosenko. Krupnov appeared a little later. |
3 | Mr. Klein. bid you ever tell anyone that on the basis of |
L : }
e 4 | your evaluation of Oswald, you instructed Krupnov to advise Oswald
;
§ | through Intourist interpreter that Oswald would not be permitted
6 to remain in the U.S.S.R. permanently and that he would have
"he depart at the expiration of his visa? mo,
| Did you ever tell anybody that? : 7
g Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not remember. If I said it, it

| sntormation, concluded that Oswald was of no interest to the >
i

KGB and both agreed that Oswald appeared somewhat abnormal."

|
a i in this case when Oswald was allowed to stay. In the moment
i
ia when Oswald arrived in Soviet Union, when he went in hospital,
13 | krupnov was still not in Seventh: Department. He very soon Oo |
los . - . :
a mn | appeared later. Then it was wrong. If I stated. it, it was |
i . oo a |
ig | wrong. |
; '
io Mr. Klein... Directing your attention to the FBI report in|
ip | front of you, I would like to draw your attention to page 28. |
Boos H
at Mr. Nosenko. Right. i;
is | -Mr. Klein. Beginning with the underlihed section beginning
20 | with the first "On the basis" in the second paragraph, would
an you read this? | |.
39 i‘ Mr. Nosenko. "Nosenko and Krupnov on the basis of this” |
|
oa

Mr. Klein. Not that, the second paragraph, "On the basis

re)
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of" ——
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50955 Docld:32277209 Page 48


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Mr. Nosenko. "On the basis of Nosenko's evaluation of

Oswald, he instructed Krupnov to advise Oswald through the.

Intourist interpreter Oswald would not be permitted to remain inl

the U.S.S.R. permanently and that he would have to depart at
the expiration of his visa, and thereafter seek reentry as a
permanent resident through routine channels at the Soviet
Embassy in the United States."

Mr. Klein. Did you ever say that?

Mr. Nosénko.. I do not remember saying this. It can be

that simply misunderstanding, and, you see, this is not

Krupnov didn! t- participate it in the beginning.

Mr. Klein. Also “it says -—

Mr." Nosenko. tt was participation of Rastrusin.

Mr. Klein. Also is it correct when it says in there that
you made the decision and --

Mr. Nosenko. No, I couldn't make. decision, being Deputy
Chief of Section.

Mr. Klein. Does it say anything there --

Mr. Nosenko. I could say my opinion, yes.

Mr. Klein. Does it say anything there about a meeting

to determine what to do, or does it say that on basis of your

evaluation, you told Krupnov to do it?

Mr. Nosenko.. It's not right. I said only that Krupnov

|
|
|
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|

ate
{
i

transcription from the tape. It is, Iwill say a summary, and

I do not remember. But,?if I said this, it -isinot right because’


/ | 4s 48
{ . . . . . :
' | appeared later. . This period, what we are discussing here, was
. '
ae ~ i ; : 4 . . . : i
* | Rastrusin involved, decision cannot be done on my own, being |
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i on, ;
* Deputy Chief of Section; decision cannot be done even being \
|
au ' Deputy Chief of Section, Chief of Section, at least it

:
| ;
| must be on the level of Chief of Department.

7 mr, Klein. So it is incorrect. is that what you are saying?
7h - Mr! NoSenko.”" tt is incorrect, and. Krupnov -- I do not. ;
“ : i
2 | remember.
a | | Mr. Klein, ‘You told wis; when I questioned you about the
\ . . . , i
"| face! inet you didn't tell ‘the FBI that there was physical, ©
{ a sok > wok: ; ’ : oe cos : |
11 | surveillance, the last question I asked you, if they would have |
_ if he was physically surveilled, would you nave told |
aa ft
7 3 | them, and you said yes? . _ to |
@ —_ 14 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sure. I will say.. |
is | | Mr. Klein. Were you ever asked the following question |
16 | and aia you, give the following answer: . ; ee oe
‘7 a "was he physically surveilied" and that is referring £0. |
43 | Minsk, and you answered "No, there was none"?
9 Mr. Nosenko. It was mot right, because. it was order given!
«| sn under periodical surveillance. _ _ |
3 ‘7 "Mr, Klein. I draw your attention to page 9 of the CIA. :
- 2) document in front of you, Memorandum for the Record. :
@. 73. Mr. Nosenko. 1 do not have it. |
t He an . a !
xi | Mr. Klein. The Ryan Report. I: draw,your attention to page
: 28 9. _ |

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Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

49 .

nD

Mr. Klein. Would you read ithe first question and the first

ceed

answer? «tf

\

Mr. Nosenko. "Was he physically surveilled?"

ian

"No, there was none.

ch

Mr. Klein. Did you ever give that answer to that question?

Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember; it's not right, the

ob

answer. !

7 oO

gy Mr. Klein. I would ask that this tape, which is marked

10 4 3 July '64, Reel No. 66, be deemed marked for identification. |
al The Chairman. Indicate for the record the marking. |
" The Clerk. JFK-F-7. |
ol (The item referred to was marked
- ;
@ id | as JFK Exhibit No. F-7 for
| identification.) |
ve | The Chairman. We will recess for about five minutes. :
>| (A brief recess was taken.) :
a | The Chairman. The Committee is back in session.
ve | During the recess the witness made a request of the |
x Chair that he be permitted to make a brief statement prior to

counsel for the Committee resuming interrogation.

The Chair is going to grant that request and recognize

bo
ho -

the witness at this time for such statement as he would like

to make.

es
rn

,
=e

Mr. Nosenko. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. ~

rs)
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Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlenien, I arrived in the

United States in 1964, 12th of February. I felt something was

ds

|

'

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a
going wrong because the attitude on the part of the officers |

from .CIA who was dealing witH me, I felt was going wrong, by
a number of remarks, their behavior. Besides, Iwas ina |
|

psychological’ process. It's a very big thing, when you are com-

ing-to live in a new country. ‘I left the country where I was

co

born, never mind, my defection was strictly on ideological

basis, but still psychologically is very big thing and very

serious thing. :
A very short period of time, April 4, I was invited on check-
up for the doctor, and this checkup turned to be arrest. |

Arrested was in very rude form, nobody beat my physically , |

no, but in rude. form, trying to put dignity of the person, of

human being, down, kept in very hard’ conditions. 1 was

smoking from 14 years old, never quitted. Iwas rejected to

—
oO

|
| .
en I didn't see books. I didn't read anything. I was

sitting in four walls, metal bed in the center of the room and

I was hungry, and this was the most difficult for me becaus;

4
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~ is all.
| Row I tried not to think about food. I was thinking about food
|

because all the time I want to eat. I was receiving very small

| amount, and very poor food. I was sitting some kind of attic;
bit was hot, no air conditioning, cannot breathe; windows -- no
| ,

windows, closed over. I was permitted to shave once a’week,


51 “|

to take showers once a week.

From me were taken toothpaste, toothbrush. The conditions

transferred. in another*place, ‘which is now I. know where it

an

i
|
i
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i
were really inhuman, conditions in this place; and later |.

was, the second place, Camp Perry, where certain ‘house and ‘the

oh

Gd

same very, very Spartan:conditions; three and a half years.

Besides that,. on me were used different types of drugs and

went

oo”

sleeping drugs, hallucination drugs, and whatever I ‘do not know ;

and don't want to know.

What I want to tell you, the arrest was done illegally,

‘without due process of law, withdut -- in violation of

Constitution, which was found by Rockefeller Commission. It.

wasn't mentioned my name, but simply nameless defector, who,

‘was over three years cin extremely Spartan conditions.

as . Interrogations were ‘done ‘sometimes 24 hours, not giving me
i]
|

Hoe: _ Coy . . as .
| an hour to ‘Sleepi . Intekrogations were in very hostile manner.

oN

Simply, what I would say were rejected. How long I will be, wh
pit is without due process, no warrants; "You will-be eternally,
25 years." How long wwe-would’want.: you to keep. . That is why

I consider all interrogations, all materials, which concerns

this period of time are illegal, and I am not recognizing them

wy and don't want to see them. And I am asking you not to ask

! questions based on this interrogations, including trying to

— ee en ene

2

“play the tape during this interrogations. For me it's difficult

2
ivel

étratimnitback. I passed through hell. I started new ; Life ‘in

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| 6? only because I was true defector. I never raised this

os)

| question with correspondents. I never. werit in Press, because

Lae)

I am loyal to the country which accepted me, and I didn' t wanted
“i to. hurt the country.

I didn't hurt,. even to hurt, the intelligence, the CIA.

de

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7
J
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:
| . .
6% I didn't consider the whole CIA was responslbe. Were responsible

several people, for this. Thank God they are not working there

or

anymore. They are out. If I will go in press, if I would |
a we ; ; |
t

“MER

be telling about these inhumane ‘conditions, I will hurt not only,

the agencies, ‘the intelligenice service of the U.S., I will hurt

i in what conditions and what treatment defectors is receiving.

4
j
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Sir, i prefer that you be ‘using materials when it was ceartba |

|
ie interests of the U.S. so hWho.-would {likevité defects: reading
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= i |
@ i | humane relations with me, which was started at the end of ‘67. |
sit still was under arrest but I was transferred from the extremely
7 i ;
13 | Spartan conditions, and with me started to work Mr. Bruce | :
i | Senie, who passed through the whole life, through all cases, :
a through everything. People who were talking with me before |
«| were coming with what they were told, how to approach to me, |
20 | how to treat me. They have come with made opinion, before .
| whatever I will say yes or no. That is why I consider it. -
| . : ree . . . |
| i
22 |

|

jis all unlawful documents in the period of interrogations.done
7 ;
Iby anyone in CIA. up until the end of '67.- , on, |
.

The. Chairman. Is there. anything further, Mr. Nosenko? i

Mr. Nosenko. No, sir.

Ma
in

H

| (Pages 53 thru 78, being Commi tte, business only, are excerpted. )
i 7 : :
4

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‘HW 50955 Docld: 32277209 .

78

veyME. Blakey... Shall I inform. the witness?

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| . . i
| The Chairman. In light of the time situation and our

‘.
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joriginal intention of trying. to wind up by. 10:00. pem., the Chair;

4 i?

| thinks Perhaps we ought to try and invoke a five minute rule

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5 [so ‘that everybody: gets a fair’ ‘opportunity rather: than to proceed
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6 | informally and extend this matter over a long period of time. .
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? I Anyone have any objection? |
i.
3 | All right, bring the witness in. |
4 : ; }
oh (Whereuponyp at 8:43 o'clock p.m., the witness returned |
t : . + .
: . |
19 Feo the hearing room.) ~ |
HO |
VW The Chairman. Let the record reflect the fact the witness |
We ;
4 jnas again returned to the witness table and, Mr. -Nosenko, i
.
Fa 13 i at this time counsel for the Committee has concluded his vaste
;
ae . 1
if ito you and at thispoint in time the members of the Committee | -
| “4
VS j Would | like to be able to pose questions to you with reference ~
i | |
a it Oo -your testimony “here yesterday and this evening. Is that |
. , . so i
‘ 2 |
7 agreeable to you, sir? |
iL i
15 i Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. i
4 |
19 I The Chairman. Thank you.
a | |
20. | The Chair at this point would invoke the five minute H
i .
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2} | rule. The Chair will begin the questions. i

Mr. Nosenko, you are now a citizen of the United States,

i
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| you are now an employee of the CIA, I understand as a consultants

jis that correct?

Mr. Nosenko. On private contract. I am not an employee

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HW 50955 Docld:32277209 Page 55”


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Lee

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(of the CIA. I amon. a private contract, used as a consultant

on counterintelligence of the Soviet KGB.

ce)

The Chairman. And in that capacity, sir, are you paid an

ron

annual salary?

a .
} vas re :
oy. ‘Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir, I am paid an annual salary.
é | The Chairman. And what is that salary?
} : . . i
|
i

Mr. Nosenko. $35,000.
The Chairman. And --
Mr. Nosenko. It is the last year, because it was cost of |

living.

The Chairman. I see. In that capacity, do you contract —

1a Lous also to other persons or other organizations?
|
i

Mr. Nosenko. No.

ig The Chairman. This is your sole income?
Is | Mr. Nosenko. | only one sole income.
a
ie The Chairman. Has the CIA given you anything else of
7 value other than a salary, that is, a home, anything of that.

2 j)-sort? : ; h

Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. And in the book published, written:;:”

f : i
by Epstein was mentioned CIA bought me home. No, sir, I bought}

oO 6

home on my money, nobody bought me a home, no.

The Chairman. . You also now are remarried and you have --

734 Mr .Nosenko.. Yes, sir, I am married. I am American citizen,
i

ND
be

| I have five stepchildren and six grandchildren.

ny
as sace,

The Chairman. You now have a passport? Do you have a

7 eran:

;

50955 Doold:32277209 Page 56.


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passport. as arn
Mr. Nosenko.. Yes, I have a passport, which I once used

being sent by the Agency in 1975, in England, for week where

Iwas talking with British Intelligence and Counterintelligence

Services, concerning .my knowledge of the Second Chief Direc-
torate, KGB in general.

The Chairman. Is that the only country to which you have
traveled since your defection?

Mr. Nosenko. No. I have traveled on behalf of. the
Central Intelligence Agency also for the last four years. I.
was in eleven countries. And I never received or demanded or
asking any special fees for consultations with all friendly
intelligence services, never.

The Chairman. Have you ever returned to Soviet Russia?

Mr. Nosenko. Never once in Soviet Union from 1964 and
hope will never see it again.

The Chairman. And how long have you now been a consultant

for CIA?

Mr. Nosenko. I was from 1969, from April 1969, when I was

released from detention arrest.

The Chairman. Now, will you clarify for us when you first
were placed under arrest?

Mr. Nosenko. Fourth of April, 1964.

The Chairman. And on what. date had you defected?

Mr. Nosenko. I defected 4th of February of 1964 in Geneva,

Tan ocr
ORE a ash is
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Switzerland.

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oO The Chairman. And when you were placed under arrest,

n>

2] where were’ you placed in detention? ;

da

eo ; 4] Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I do not know, it was somewhere around

i
eg | Washington, close to Washington, where I was '64 and beginning

Ce
6 | 165, approximately. I don't hear any radio, I didn't see any
9 ‘newspaper, I do not know, didn't know anything what happen in

the world for many years. Oo

oo

I know that it was by car from Virginia where I was ;

1 | staying from 12 of February '64, I was taken by car for visit
to doctor, and it was 30, 40 minute drive, it was in this area, |.

but then in approximately after a year and maybe 13 months, a

{
4
|
i.
|
| year and one month, roughly, I was transferred in very

| peculiar conditions, was put under shackles and handcuffs,

\

. I

| blindfolded, put in the car, and don't know where I was‘going, |

: . |

‘only I heard, passing through city, i ccouldn'tiunderstand ,
in oot

|p couldn’ t see anything, then Ir “heard airplanes, I understood

if . i

|

i

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1

| that I was soméwhere in airport, and once I was scared to death,

I. think I was thinking they were returning me to the Russians.

wt

jWell, they put me in airplane --

The Chairman. Mr. Nosenko, my time has expired. I want

RY

| to recognize --

Mr. Nosenko. I do not know the place, sir. - I know I only

a

te

|now found out reading the book of Daniel Schorr that I was in

| Camp Perry’ up to the end of '67. That is what I found out from

‘
“

am "a hy a FA oy 8
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a 50955 Bocld: 32277209 Page 58° ot ~

TOP SECRET

| |

} i the book. |
oo 2 | “The Chairman. ‘Thank you. |

3 | Mr. Preyer. |
@ 4 | Mr. Preyer. Me. Nosenko’ “one thing that comes through ve ly
§ ¥ strongly in your testimony is that it is a hard life to he a

6 || defector. I think to the average mentality we think it would

7 be good for a country to welcome a defector, but to the

g | intelligence mentality apparently a defector is immediately sus

9 | pect, and you have. recounted your ‘treatment here, and apparentl
\ ue
| Lee Harvey Oswald, from your testimony, was greeted somewhat
| ; To Tse Tg,

- Q

like this in‘ the U.S.S.R. ‘His’ treatment was. much different

from yours.

4

ae "a

One thing he was not an intelligence agent, of course.

Yr

—_o——

KGB. The impression I get was the mere fact of being a defect

i
| But you have indicated that he was kept at arms' length by the
caused the KGB to be less interested in him than if it was

| .

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

: 17 {| Someone they had recruited?
Mr. Preyer. Although he was kept at arms' lencth: by the
| KGB, in the sense that he was not contacted, it does appear
2 | that he lived very well there, relatively speaking. “He cer-
tainly lived much.better than you lived in your early years.
a mee he was given a job in Minsk, he was given a pension,
which is something that seems extraordinary in this country,

ng 4 from the ‘Red Cross, and apparently pretty good housing conditions

a ee

i i. ge
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TU? SECRET

in Minsk.

|
,
|
- Is that typical way that a defector would be treated in
Russia, is ‘at: anmhs Teng th? |

Mr. Nosenko. Every defector will be watched but, sir,
when you mentioned what he received being in Russia, it is very
little. I can give you only one example. When defectors
‘Martin ‘and Mitchell, employees of NSA, who cooperated with KGB

abroad, and then they defected to Soviet Union, they received

| extraordinary help. It is not like Oswald. Oswald is nothing.
-Mr. Preyer. The amount of money?

‘Mr. Nosenko.w The amount of money and other things,

=

extroardinary.
Mr. Preyer. For Oswald were not extraordinary?
Mr. Nosenko. No.
Mr. Preyer. You’ mentioned the other three defectors that

you had known of. What sort of treatment did they receive?

:
|
!
|
|
i
|
| vow
| Mr. Nosenko. I will tell you what Martin and Mitchell --
| Mr. Preyer. were they two of the other three?

| Mr. Nosenko. ‘These two, for example. I can mention other
| what I heard, I never work with them, what I heard. Martin

| and Mitchell, by decision-of Soviet Governient was given them,

| to each one, $100,000 on their account, was given apartment,

not like Oswald received, but real’ good apartment, so-called

classless society, living high class. Each one was given car,

each one received life pension a month of (5000 Soviet rubles

‘ims neo ~~ WOP.- SECRET

~

Fe cc te arinenee ee tat tain oF marnahranetvnrni tte nat ata rN Et AO i A

22

24

Se

wr sooss tocracssaln0 say x TOP. SECRET

ey cee es ae ae aS OE ee

a

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OP SECHET

up to death. And each one was helped with work. Both were

84

assignéd with:.some type. of: research: work:..where they had given

‘position, let's say Martin was given position of researcher.

4

But amount of pay of his was analogical to the amount of pay

of the Director of this Institute, ‘besides what he is

receiving of pension. This is the treatment of those defectors
whom they want, who had given them valuable information.

In case of -= excuse me -- was Annabella Buear defected
something early "50s. She was working in American Embassy in |
Press Department. She also received, in spite of the fact
was making very. good money in the Soviet Union, she was working
for Moscow Radio, she was receiving life pension of big amount,
amount approximately what in Soviet Union is received by Deputy

of Minister, of Ministry, of this or that ‘industry.

Mr. Preyer. But the defector who was not giving informa-
tion? )

Mr. Nosenko. Now, he will be given a little bit something
pension like was Oswald, to Oswald given pension. I don't

know what was given to Webster, 4 worker, who was defected in '59

and by the way, in very short period of time he decided he

doesn't like the life in the so-called Soviet paradise. He

wanted to return back home, but if he received it will be
analogical to what Oswald received, not more.
The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired...

Mr. Devine.


TOP SECRET

85
1 Mr. Devine. _ Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Co 2 Were you solicited to be a defector?
3 Mr. Nosenko. No, sir. ‘No, sir. .
@. 4 Mr. bevine. . why did you defect?
5 Mr. Nosenko. I _défected because I for years of my life

6 | has come to number of conclusions that the whole society, the
7 | whole system, is dictatorial system, nondemocratic system,

8 || the true police state system, and especially working the

9 || KGB opened eyes for me. My defection was strictly on ideologi

10 i cal basis.

WW Mr. Devine. Had you been out of the Soviet Union prior.

42 | to your defection?

eS

eS . 13 | Mr. Nosenko. ves .
: i4 | Mr. Devine. Other than’ to Geneva? .
as) Mr. Nosenko. ves, I was in England twice, then I was
16 | passing through a number of countries, staying day, two,
47 | France, Belgium, HOlland. I was in 1960 in Cuba.
_ 13 Mr. Devine. You were a married man in” Russia? - |
19 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. |
20 Mr. Devine. Had a child? |
a1 1° Mr. Nosenko. Yes, two daughters. ~
22 Mr. Devine. Were you having some domestic difficulties?

Mr. Nosenko. No. I tried in 1960-'61, I tried to arrange

\

s¢ fit-fell down, and I understood I cannot go abroad with ‘family,

?
a

| a AR .
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to go to work abroad with my family, and in the last moment
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and that is why when I contacted CIA in '62, I =~ psychologically

I was ready, ideologically was ready and psychologically ready

to defect, but the question of family was bothering me.

Mr. Devine. But not enough to keep you there?
Mr. Nosenko. Not enough to keep me there. And in '64
I has come knowing that I will never return.
Mr. Devine. You were willing to abandon your family?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir, because I didn't see possibility

to take family out: I was living the last four or five years

as a man with two souls, splitted personality, one I must show

and was showing, aS good KGB officer, as a good Communist, as

a patriot of the Soviet system, the Soviet Union, and the other
tt

part of me, the true part I am not believing in what I am
'

| telling, I am not believing in the system, I do not like it,

on because I was working in KGB, I knew it. I simply couldn't

more tolerate to be with this double splitted personality.

Mr. Devine. How did you dispose of your children and your

i do not want it, and I consider what phony things are going
wife in Russia?

Mr. Nosenko. The thing was psychologically, my had, had
in my mind. help me. My mother was rather rich, after death of }
father, she was very rich woman and she had a lot that will be

enough not only for my children but their children and grand-

children. From the point of view of material they will never

1 suffer.

. i er
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sooss ourasseives vee TOP. SECRET

TOP SEGRET | a

Mr. ovine. Yes, but as a defector would there not be
reprisals taken by the Soviet Union against your family?

Mr. Nosenko. sir, before the death of Stalin it coulda
be taken drastic measures against the family, but after the
death of Stalin, from middie 1950s, quite a little changes took
place in the Soviet union, and’ the family will not suffer.

Another thing, oh sure, will be certain things. which they
cannot achieve. Let's say my brother who studied later in
the same Institute what I finish, Institute of International
Relations, he will never have possibility to go. abroad, but
he will never ‘be put in jail, can never be exiled from Moscow,
the same, nothing happened with family.

Mr. Devine. The fact that you were a KGB man didn't your

a) ee

Mr. Nosenko. Sure.
Mr. Devine. Did they want to get you back, didn't they
want to get even with you?

Mr. Nosenko. Oh, yes, and they are looking for me.

Mr. Devine. But they took no reprisals against your family.

Mr. Nosenko. No. |

Mr. Devine. How do you know that?

Mr. Nosenko. Well, I do not know exactly, but you see,
there were some defections before. The family didn't suffer lik
it was, let's say, in '40s and maybe up to death of Stalin.

Mr. Devine. Were those KGB defections?

Mr. Nosenko. Even from KGB.

eee nett Re aett

(GP SECRET | oo

88 i
1 The Chairman. The time of the gentleman: has expired.
oo 2 Mrs. Burke?
3 Mrs. burke. Well, 1 Wolld Like to go back a little bit

after you decied to defect. I think you had a number of

§ |} conversations with the American Embassy, was it, or was it
. i

6 || CIA, during those ten days that you were in touch, where you

t
!

7 || negotiated whether or not “you would in fact defect?

8 Mr. Nosenko. No, I contacted. CIA in “1962 and -- ;
| Mrs. Burke. In '64? i
10 | Mr. Nosenko. In "64, when I arrived in Geneva, on second
" day I mailed a cable, and I Knew -- a prearranged addressed,
2 | and I knew that in two days somebody in appropriate place and
ay 13 | appropriate time will meet me from CIA.. i
. !
foe id Mrs. Burke. And they met you -- :
154 Mr. Nosenko.. They met me and I was meeting them every
16 | day, visiting, and when I had free time, visited Secret address
7 | in Geneva. oo ; i |
13 Mrs. Burke. All right, during those times jyou were meeti
.| them, did you negotiate in terms of what your situation would

99 || be here in the United States if you defected, ox where you woj

Ld
a

go? :
29 Mr. Nosenko. Well, I put a question chat what amount o
. eo. | 74 salary I want, that will find for me job. This I negotiate,
. 14 | Mrs. Burke. Did you discuss whether or not you wou!

be imprisoned?

|
| _
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89

1 Mr. Nosenko. No, it never come to my mind that they woul

co 2 | imprison me.
3 Mrs. Burke. Did you tell them that -- I think you told
@ 4 jus you had some information you would well to them for a

§ | certain amount of money.
& Mr. Nosenko. It's in '62.

7 Mrs. Burke. In '62 you said that. In '64 you didn't

g8 | discuss any sale of any information?

g Mr. Nosenko. No, no, on the contrary, for the period of

190 | “62 -'64, I tried to get as much as possible tnformatiion:. not

1] #only to come what I knew where I participated in the depart-

|
12 Ronee but to find out as much as possible what can
& 3 | be valuable to the American intelligence and I had come with
on { . . .
tee” 14 | some luggage. |
4s Mrs. Burke. All right, well, during the time that you wer
6 | talking to them about what your salary would be, the circum
VW | stances of your defection, and I assume you told them what you
1a ee was, some of the things you worked on -- |
19 Mr. Nosenko. Yes. |
| Mrs. Burke. -- did you tell them you worked on the |
1 | oswara file? i
| Mr. Nosenko. I do not remember, I can mention. I do not
|
i

33 || remember, honestly.

24 | Mrs. Burke. Did you discuss Oswald at all with them during
: i

i that period?

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| 90

i Mr. Nosenko. I must, sure, mentioned this fact because,

- -24 no, it happened such a thing. “I mast mention. But I do not

3 | remember. a cannot tell you what questions were, what my

@. | 4 | answers were. |

7 5 Mrs. Burke. Did you tell them that the Soviet Union thought
6 that Oswald may have béen a United States agent?
7 Mr. Nosenko. Yes, I certainly -- it would be -- anyone
g | treated. Oswald, or anyone from the United States who
9 || come to live on his own decided to defect, or they contacted
| ni before, they will still will be suspected ina possibility

that he is an agent of American intelligence, and also this fact.

2 Mrs. Burke. And is..this the reason that you gave him why
@ > 13 | he was not allowed to remain in the Soviet Union? .
-, ;
Poe! ia | ' Mr. Nosenko. The reason was that they didn't want him to
ae] stay because, KGB, because they didn't consider him an interest
I - 7
16 | ing target, an interesting person who has valuable information
7 Mrs. Burke. I know that. In fact, I remember you
18 | saying something about a person would only be interesting under
| certain circumstances, one of which would be if they came in as
2 | a tourist and they applied a very short time before they seceeten
a | Mr. Nosenko. Oh no. {
2 Mrs: Burke. And they were an add on to, for instance,
*, | the tour. |
24 | Mr. Nosenko. Right. Right. “
”, 25 | Mrs. Burke. Now, from what that report shows, it shows that

I Oe

| .
{|

| . .

scons veauosslvas mma TOP SECRET a

[UP SECRET — a1

Oswald received his visa in two days to come to the Soviet

os 2 | union. So he would be automatically suspect, and he would be
3 automatically what you would call an interesting person.
@: 4 : Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no. In this case, you see, Oswald
5

even didn't receive a visa in United States; he received it

6 |passing through Europe.

7 Mrs. Burke. Through Helsinki?
8 | , Mr. Nosenko. Right, in Finland, where it's process was
3 | easier than it will ‘be in the United States. He simply bought.
10 la tour and he received, managed to receive visa.
Y | Mrs. Burke. Let me just ask one other: thing.
12 Didiyou tell them any of your, aside from the ideological,
@- ; 13 fh you wanted to defect? For instance, did you tell them
oe id anything about this promotion you thought you had when you went
is Ito, was it, Gorki?
i
16. | Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
VW | Mrs. Burke. But then you --
13 | Mr. Nosenko. No, I didn't tell them. I simply said that
19 | position, because with me, it was documented, I lied. I
20 en my position was Lieutenant Colonel. It wasn't true. It
21 lwas false statement. The same false statement was concerning
; 22 |recatt telegram when I wanted to push the defection process.
| .
®. 4 ! Mrs. Burke. My time is up. May I just ask one

24 question? Were you upset when you didn't get your promotion

1

—_ 3s jafter they had --

:
| |
HW 450955 poera:32277209 Page 66 : . 10? SECRET


(UP SEGRET a

Mr. Nosenko. No, no ma'am. I still didn't receive it.
It was sent on signature. You see, they are signing, not

immediately when they are received. Personnel Directorate

gather~infrom-all-ever:the: Soviet:Union,: fromiall°KGBs.and
‘comment on signature to the Chairman, twice, three times a
year. They “were simply gathering in and didn't get enough
materials. I do not know. Maybe it was signed in January. But
up to my leaving, nobody informed me that it was signed. I

j didn't -- wasn't rejected.

| The Chairman. The time of the gentlewoman has. expired.
Mr. Dodd?

Mr. Dodd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I wonder if you might let me ask you -- let me start back
jhere, very quickly. One of the very first questions you were

asked last night by Mr. Klein, was the way Mr. Klein worded

the question, and I will ask you to expound on it if it is a
correct recall on my part. |

Mr. Klein asked you or stated that you arranged for your
transfer to the American section of the KGB. He used the words |
you arranged for your transfer to that section. Is that an
accurate statement? Did you want to be in that section? Did you

|

specifically ask to be in that section? |
Mr. Nosenko. No, it wasn't accurate, it wasn't right. |

Arrangement was done in work form. I was working after finishing

Institute in GRU, Navy Intelligence, and being in 1952 New Year,
|

scsom mauazinm wae TOP SECRET

‘TOP SECRET

] in Moscow on New Year on a short leave, I was in company wheré

os 2 a one of my friends with whom I studied at the Institute.

ces)

Hexworkéds anithe Ministry of Foreign Affairs. But his father-

@. 4 in-law was high:ranked General of MGB;,...in“ those -years was

§ | called KGB, and he asked me what I am doing, this General.

& I said that I am working for the Navy Intelligence, GRU.

; Do you like this work? |
a | I said no, because I am not using what I received
| education.

10 | Would you like to work in MGB? *

| 'I said, if it will be with the use of my disciplines

a which I studied at the Institute, why not? That is all. - And

@ . 13 | in March after death of Stalin this general was appointed the
. .

ig | First Deputy Minister of MGB of Beria. He remembered this
.
, . + . i
1s | conversation and several days after death of Stalin I was recalled

to MGB which was called MVD in this period of time, in March of

i

16 |

in| '53, and was assigned to Second Chief Directorate. This is what!
, .

| true statement.

19 | Mr. Dodd. When you sent to the safe house or whatever it

29 || was in Geneva, in 1964, by your own admission you lied to the
agent there in that you stated you had received a telegram

39 || issuing your recall back to the Soviet Union.

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

a4 | : Mr. Dodd. Therefore, it was ‘that important that they

# accept you immediately.

WwW
in

HY 50955 poora:32277209 Page 70 . .. TOP SECRET |

| «UP SECRET

i
Did you show anyone a telegram?

94

~

cm 2 Mr. Nosenko. No, sirys noyesir, There wasn't any telegram.
3 Mr. Dodd. Did they ask for a telegram?
6 | days. I am afraid of that any moment my Chief of the Second
7 || Chief Directorate will be returning from France.
3 Mr. Dodd. I didn't ask you that, Mr. Nosenko. My questi
9 | to you is, were you asked whether or not you had a copy of

CG. 4 Mr. Nosenko. No, but, sir, what happened, I started to
. § |}meet them in January, had passed three, four, five, six, seven
19 | the telegram that you had received from the Soviet Union? |
n Mr. Nosenko. And I -- if I was even asked I couldn't
12 give them because I cannot take it. It would be secret |
t

4 cable.
@. 1g peaeee

1g | Mr. Dodd. You have answered my question.
it
|
16 | supposition on your part, but I am curious about it. -- you stat
\
}

4S You stated last night that -- and this might have been a |

17 | that it was your feeling that the intelligence community in

13 this country considered you a dispatched agent in 1962. Is

that something that you felt in 1962?
Mr. Nosenko. No. It's -- |

Mr. Dodd. A reflection back?

Mr. Nosenko. A reflection back. No, no, sir.

Mr. Dodd. You, by your own statement, again have received |

é
Me

j some very rough treatment, inhuman treatment, to use your words,

4 Living under spartan conditions, and I am sort of brushing over

if ; . . i
HY 50955 Docld: 32277209 Page TL TOP SECRET . :

14

me)

1é

17

TOP SECRET

this very quickly, between 1964 and 1969. Certainly you

95

couldn't have been very pleased with the way you were being
treated by a country that you had defected to and offered to
give information to. So for a period of that '64, to '69,
five years, you went through a rather rough period in your Life?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
Mr. Dodd. why did you go to work for somebody who treated
you like that? .
Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I, even was five year there, I didn't
consider that it was decision of the whole CIA. I didn't
consider that --. ‘I didn't blame the whole CIA because it
wasn't the question decided by the whole Agency. tt was
decided question by several persons who were t consider simply
in this period of time sick, mentally sick, not ill, but |
were simply in fear, in scare, in mania as if KGB penetrated
everything.

Mr. Dodd. Is it your statement to me that for five
years, while you were incarcerated in almost solitary confine-

ment, that you thought that this was the individual acts of a

couple of employees of this Agency? |
Mr. Nosenko. Not employees. | |
Mr. Dod. Without the approval of the very highest |
authority in this Agency?

Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I have seen Chief of Soviet Russia

Division, Mr. David Murphy. He was a high ranking man. It was
|

ssooss vocsealnes een TOP. SECRET

14

1S

16

7

mar)

| the quéstion, I want to be paid for every year which I was_

(TOP SECRET

his decision, decision of Mr. Angleton, decision of Mr.

Murphy, and when they are coming to Director, and I know, from

“my life, they can report in the way how they will report it, an

the Director will accept because they are responsible people,
they are sitting in this place. He is not going into details,
he is not going and studying, he is not going himself visiting.

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Sawyer? |

Mr. Sawyer. First, have you received any compensation
for the period during.-which you were held in jail?

Mr. Nosenko. I received in several years later, I put

unlawfully. arrest, the amount of money which we have. agreed,

with taken taxes and whatever American citizens are paying.

Mr. Sawyer. Did you get that?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, and on this sum of money I bought
the house.

Mr. Sawyer. I see.

I will tell you what bothers me about your testimony, very
frankly. You stated that they would be very interested in a
member of the American intelligence community that they could
even compel to defect. Here you hada willing defector, a guy

who said that undoubtedly that he didn't like America, and

t

|
that he did like Russia, and he wants to defect, and nobody . |
even interrogates him, according: to you, as to what exposure on |
|

i

i

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r™ 2
3
®. 4

12

4
“AS
16

17

i

igP SECRET . 97
|

experience he had, He might have worked in the missile silos,

j lives there for a period of, a long period of time. Here is a

somebody who doesn't want to talk to you or that might not want

he might have done anything, but nobody asked him, and that he
to talk to you. And here is a fellow who was a radar operator,

experienced to some degree, and I don't know to what degree,
but apparently the Russians don't know to what degree either,
because nobody asked him, in a highly secret air base in Japan,
but they didn't ask him even about that, and it is very rare
to have one come. 7

Tt have listened to Radio Free Cuba, where they air all
kinds of propaganda, — and this guy would have been certainly

| good, for propaganda when he loved Russia and hated the ‘United

States. And I just, with those circumstances, I very frankly
find it almost impossible to believe that they did not
thoroughly interrogate him at least.

Mr. Nosenko. They never considered him an. interesting
target. It was known that he served in Marine Corps.

Mr. Sawyer. What I am getting at, how did they know
whether he was an interesting target when they never even asked

Mr. Nosenko. They judging by what they know about him

what in questionnaire he filled and plus what they found out

from interpreter on him. He said to interpreter, he served

in Marine Corps, he finished his years of service.

sso outaseines omen ‘TOP. SECRET

guy that is totally willing to talks. It is not like approachin


TOP SECRET =

1 Mr. Sawyer. But he might have been a eryptographer in the
co 2 | Marine Corps. He might have been as an enlisted man, he
i might have been a cryptographer and know all our codes and
@. 4 | code methodology that might help break codes and that sort of
$ i} thing, but nobody ever asked him. what is what I don't under-
6 || stand. And I can't believe it, very frankly.
7 Mr. Nosenko. I understand, sir, but I am telling you he
8 | wasn't considered interesting target, and --
; | Mr. Sawyer. But they didn't have any facts to know
ia | whether he was interesting, and here is a guy that wants to
onl talk to them.
12 Mr. Nosenko. But the judgment made on each person to work
@. 13 | actively against him on the basis of his questionnaire. If

teacher, let's say he is working for the government, any
department, but for the Federal Government, or he is an officer
sure, on him will be paid attention.

Mr. Sawyer. Well, all right, we can drop that for a
minute.

But now, he got a visa in two days in Finland. I happen

to have been in Finland four years ago and wanted to get a

{
ig¢ | in questionnaire will be said he is, let's say, professor,
i
|
|
|
|

visa, a sort of a last minute decision, to go to Leningrad, and|

visa. Now, to issue him a visa in two days for Russia, that

+ is very unusual, apparently, so they must have had some

|

’ , «3 | I was told there is a minimum of 30 days before you can get a
|
f

P SECRET i”

aw 50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 75 Tf


«TOP SECRET |
: ; 7 99 - i
interest in getting him there. ° .
Mr. Nosenko. Sir, what I know, there wasn't any interest
to get him. “He managed to get this visa.
Mr. Sawyer. all right. | 7

The other thing I am curious about is when they interrogated

you so carefully here, why someone like Oswald, a known defecto

and who could well have been now a Russian intelligence agent,
comes back to the country, apparently CIA .or FBI, or nobody
paid a bit of attention to him, andilet him wander around the

19 | country with a Russian wife at will.

met , ‘ . a
re) oo ~“ a wm te w nw _

di I have used up my time.

The Chairman. Okay. The time of the gentleman has ~

‘

=e:

expired.

Mr. Fithian.

“ae
a

|
|
:
16 | | |
is] ' Mr. Fithian. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16 Mr. Nosenko, as I piece it together, there are four
17 | possibilities for this Committee to believe. Let me sketch
13 | out what those possibilities are.
| One, that you told the truth in 1964, but you are now
a misleading this Committee.
a | Two, that you told an untruth_in 1964, basically your |
22 | statements in 1964 were not true;.but you are telling the truth
~ |

Three, that in fact you were dispatched here’ by the KGB,

or the Soviet Government, because of apparent but unreal

: =: t
HW 50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 76 . TOP. SECRET mo, -

VOP SeGkeT

j connections between the Soviets and Oswald and the assassinatio

100

mo. 2 | of President Kennedy. Obviously the USSR would need this for
. 3 | obvious reasons. They would badly need this for all sorts of

@. 4 | international reasons.

~ 5 And finally, the fourth option is that. you were dispatched

6 here by the Soviet Government and the KGB because there was an
zy || actual connection between the KGB and the assassinationnof*

g | President Kennedy.

9 | These are the items which I have picked up in the last

10 tv days that would .tend to lead some people to believe the
\ oe , :

last of the four, or at least the third to the last of the four;
either that the KGB dispatched you here.because they needed it

for political reasons, though they werennot involved, or they

dispatched you here because in fact they did collaborate with

iLOswald.

First, Oswald goes to Russia. You say he is rejected, but

|
i
|
{
|
16 |
7 | they grant him. a pension, however..small.
a7 | . - .
Second, they grant him the pleasures of a hunting club,

13.
ig Peven though you said earlier he was mentally unbalanced, and
ag | YOU are allowing him to use a gun.
a Three, they allowed him to marry in Russia.
. "| Four, they gave him a job.
eo. “3 _ Now, in -- not talking about the time when you were i
~ 2a pnder stress and incarcerated, but just talking about the two |
“, ne | months prior to that -- the FBI questioning, and the prearrest
i 25 .

a 50955 Docld: 32277209 paye n ; TOP SEGRE. | | | .

o* 2 |
: , 3 I .
5 .

‘ . ; a {
HW 50955 Docla:32277209 Page 78 : TOP SEt RET i ws, =

-against Oswald, you said, yet later on you said you had seven

file. You said no KGB ever ‘talked to Oswald regarding

iG? SECRET . - 101
story makes no sense.
The rejection of. Oswald's offer to defect makes absolutely
no sense to me. | |
Mr. sawyer has’ just pursued that momentarily. I think. tha
can be rejected: by us, by reasonable people, prima facie. I see
no reason to accept that part of your story whatsoever.

The exposition, taking you off to worry about the exposi-

‘tion, and so forth, was demonstrated a fraud.

No reprisals against your familys. Nobody ‘was working |

to eight large files, you only read the first portion of one

letting him defect. The reason you gave us for that was that he.»
slashed his wriists and you concluded he was. unstable. Yet prior

to that discovery of his instability, you granted him a visa |

-in two days.and he asked to be permitted to defect prior to

slashing his wrists, and therefore you had to make the decision
prior. to slashing his writs, prior to knowing that he slashed

his wrist, that you were going to reject him. That doesn't

hold. water either.
Finally, you said in your testimony American ‘defection was
very rare. “ALL the more reason, LE it only, happens once every
year or a of-times a year, or three times between 156
and '59, it is totally incredible to me that he would not have

-been interrogated. No réasonable person can believe that story


HY 50955

10

WV

72

13

saoasasheo om m TOP SECRET

You said he was not interesting, you were not interested
in him, the KGB rejected him, Despite that, you were "recruitil
right and left all kinds of people'.to assist in the espionage
operation." _

Now, all of these things, Mr. Nosenko, leads: me to be.
very, very disturbed By your story because it simply just on t
face of what you told us Last night and tonight, can't possibly
be true. | | |

In the first place, you remember too much now. You rememb
too much in the way of details after 15 years. therefore, I
have great difficulty accepting any of your story.

We as a Committee of the United states Congress are charge

with trying to assess what actually happened in the assassinati

of .President Kennedy . That is the central story. You have not
helped us very much. You have confused the issue. In fact,
by your testimony you have led at least this member to wonder
whether or not you are still working with:the KGB.

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman nas expired:.
I will permit the witness to answer.

Mr. Nosenko. Mr. Congressman said his opinion. Do you

ask me any question?

Mr. Fithian. I would just like to have you tell me why I
shouldn't believe that you were dispatched here by the KGB,
in the Light of just: theipoints I am making, in the light of

the enormous differences, not in the CIA interrogation under

Toy


HW 50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 60

|

|

I give you some of the direction for your consulting?

UP SECRET

kind of duress. It doesn't wash with me.
The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Nosenko. Sir, if you want me to defend myself, I can

say only one thing. I never done from the first day in the
United States anything directed against this country. I tried

before I has come, when I contacted '62 the CIA, and has come

i
duress, but in the earlier period when you were not under that
in "64, I tried to get as much as possible information.. I
am the source who told concerning existence of microphones in
American embassy in Moscow. I am the man who have given, I
‘don't know , 300 cases --
Mr. Fithian. We are only concerned --
*. The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Edgar.

Mr. Edgar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It is very hard to follow Mr. Fithian's comments because
I would like to shift gears a little bit. . BUt you indicated
to our Chairman that you now act as a consultant to the CIA.

Is that your only job? |

Mr. Nosenko. It is the only job.

Mr. Edgar. In the course of acting as consultant to the

CIA, do you have access to talking with CIA employees from time

i
to time who contact you and who assist you and protect you and |

Mr. Nosenko. Yes.

TOP SECRET

(UP SEGNET Los

] Mr. Edgar. Have you ever been in a conversation with any

on, 2 | of the agents of the CIA about who might have been responsible
3] for having you detained on April 4th ,-208.>
@. 4 ; Mr. Nosenko. No.
: § Mr. Edgar. -- 1964.
6 Mr. Nosenko. No.
; Mr. Edgar. You’ indicated earlier you thought it was a man
8 | by the name of Murphy.
| Mr. Nosenko. Murphy, Chief of Soviet, former Chief of
10 | Suviet Russian Division, and Chief of Counterintelligence,
an former Chief of. Counterintelligence of the CIA Mr. Angleton
2 | because it cannot without him be decided.
@. 13° Mr. Ragar. Do you know of any other KGB agents or other
Moe 14 | defectors who were held in those very same conditions? —
as, Mr. Nosenko. No, I do not know.
16 | Mr. Edgar. Were there any other prisoners held nearby.
7 that you could hear or --
13
. confinement, no prisoner, nobody I could see.
20

Mr. Edgar. Yet you are still willing to. be a consultant
to the CIA?

Mr. Nosenko. I am -- no. Sir, I am consultant only on

Mr. Nosenko. No, sir, I was in solitary absolutely
!
i.

73 the base, on my knowledge what I know about counterintelligence

ail work of the KGB.

“Mr. Edgar. Well, you lave suggested to the Committeeithat

j Your statements given to the CIA in 1964 cannot be considered

HW 50955 pocla:3a277209 Page 81 - TOP SECRET | _


iUP StGXEl

li reliable because the statements were given under duress, and

105

-_prior to our recess a’ few moments ago you indicated that you
3] felt that the tapes and the FBI and the CIA interrogations of

& . 4 1'64, '65, and '66 should not be considered as reliable

3 i statements.
6 Is that not correct?

7h . Mx. Nosenko. Yes, because I considered the whole arrest

8 | was unlawful, without due process of law, illegal arrest,

9 | what was the finding as unlawful by Rockefeller Commission.
raf Mr. Edgar. hank you.
a You were held under those spartan conditions and you
| indicated that those ‘statements would have to.be unreliable.
@. | Now, I have three specific questions, then, to ask you.
fe 14 Have you ever told the CIA that these statements could
cas! not be considered reliable?
6 | Mr. Nosenko. Sure,.when we started, they change the
| situation, they moved me from spartan conditions, started to
3. talk with me as a human being, to treat me as a human being.
| Mr. Edgar. Did you go on a point by point correction of
nl any of those statements you previously made?
| . Mr. Nosenko. It wasn't in the form of simply returning
2 | to document, it was case by case, whatever concerns me, my
e. 43 ! biography, my work, whatever cases I knew, whatever cases I
” was involved, all questions were raised by 20, 30 times each —
1

25 | case, when it was reevaluation of all information given by me.

ww sooss poorasostraos sae ee TP. SECRET


dUP S2GHel 106

Mr. Edgar. And it is your testimony that after 1967, '68,

when those interrogations took place, you gave accurate,

)
a nN fom

truthful statements?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir, whatever and how good I recollect,
at the best.

Mr. Edgar. And those statements of '67-'68 should be
considered by this Committee as the absolute truth?

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Edgar. And nothing but the truth.

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, yes, sir.

Mr. Edgar. And it is clear to you that all the questions

12 | that were raised about Oswald were also raised in 1967 and '68?

Mr. Nosenko. Everything was raised in this period.

id Mr. Edgar. If, then, this Committee discovers inconsis-~
1g | tencies in your statements that you made in 1967 and '68,
16 jafter your incarceration and the illegal period that you
A talk about, if we find inconsistencies between that statement
13 and the statements you gave us last night and tonight, which |
19 |}should we believe?
20 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, if -- you must believe -- not you must +
31] jit is up to you what you believe. But, six, let's say was read
; 22 |to me by Mr. Klein a question, that I said when I said concerning
eo. 4 ]Oswald, I did not mention physical surveillance. It is a big
g4 |operation. It is nothing big in the KGB to put under surveil-

| il)
a — — ,
& ~ o ws) oo “I oO wi oo
ee eee me SST nn ge es

2s filance Soviet or foreigner, or to control telephone conversations
|
i

i

— ' TOP SECE a
HY 50955 DocId: 32277209 Page 83 ® c RET °

HY 50955 Docld: 32277209 Page 64

sUP DSEGNET

or correspondence. I could maybe ‘something miss, you see,
when I mentioning. I do not have such a brilliant, brilliant
mind that immediately like photographic memory, immediately. -

return word and word. I simply was describing that it wasn't

active work, that there wasn't planned recruitment,. there
wasn't planned approachment, contact. There was “type of
passive work which is called in KGB to watch ‘him and what
agents, control of correspondénce, and explaining this, I

simply, I could miss that he was under surveillance.

is it

You can return to this and tell me, uh- huh, you told in
you didn't mention that he was under surveillance. It is not
a contradiction.

The Chairman. THe time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Nosenko, in reply to Mr. Sawyer’ s question, you:

under arrest, that it was.a lump sum payment I suppose?
Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir. .

The Chairman. What amount of money was that?

Mr. Nosenko. Something about, oh, about $80,000.
the Chairman. About $80,000?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes.

The Chairman. Any other sum in addition to that were

i you paid?

indicated you were paid for the period of time that you were

"6

Mr. Nosenko. I:think I received about $15,000 or $20,000

TOP SECRET i esti

t when I started on my own to live, to buy furniture. I received,

;

HY 50955

bP SEGRET

108

yes, in the beginning, in '69, in April. But this lump I

pa:

received: in '70, '71. ‘71.
3 | The Chairman. So that the record is clear, you received
4 1 $80,000 for the period of time’ you were under arrest. |
3 Mr. Nosenko. Right.
6 “The Chairman. In order to get started again, you wre
7 || given an additional $15,000, and that was in’1969.
8 Mr. Nosenko. Right.
9 The Chairman. Since 1969, to the present time, you have
1.| imecedive ds $35,000 --
VW Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no, Sir.
12 | The Chairman. Would you --
| Mr. Nosenko. They started, when they released me they
14 | started to pay me in the beginning $16,000. Then they raised
1s | each year, $2000, two anda half thousand were raises. I only |
16 | received $35,000 this year, '78, from October of '77, approxi-
17 | mately. -
13 | The Chairman. From October '77 to the present: time you

19 ll received $35,000.
Mr. Nosenko. Right.
The Chairman. Can you give us some indication of how man
| days you have worked during 1978?
Mr. Nosenko. Well, I am working at home . besides coming
here when they needme, at least twice a month’cand spending

a week, approximately, besides traveling : when: they. are _

ne © eS

secressetrnes ves sO. SECRET

fur SEUNE|

109 \
1 sending me the last few years abroad to talk with friendly
—_ 2 intelligence services. I am also working at home on my own.
3 I am studying Soviet periodicals, Soviet magazines, Soviet
@: 4 | newspapers. Iam making certain researches, I am trying hot to |

5 | lose» what is going on, what changes taking place in policy.
6 The Chairman. Would it be fair to say that you sort of
7 | set your time and that no one else sets your time?

3 Mr. Nosenko. When I am out of this area, yes, at home,
| I am myself setting time.

10 | The Chairman. And during the last year, how many weeks

| would you say you have spent here at the Agency?

12 Mr. Nosenko. Not at the Agency. They are meeting me in

e 13 l other places. I am very rare visiting this place, only if they
a id ! invite me for a lecture or about KGB counterintelligence. But

1s lz am meeting them when I am in this area; under certain

1g | conditions, in certain places whexe they need me.

| Well, one month; twice I am coming. Let's say I am

13 | spending about 12, 13 days a month here, it can be in some

19 | cases seven, eight days a month, but in main the last period

99 | cf time I am coming, the last years, I am coming almost
3] twice a month.
29 | The Chairman. For how long?

Mr. Nosenko. For a week, five, six days.

f a
!

2 n
a Pe
oe

Mr. Preyer?

The Chairamn. My time has expired. .
'
4

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- 2 ja major piece of evidence, and was so considered by the Warren
3 |}Commission as rebutting any Russian connection with the assassi-
a 4 nation of Lee Harvey Oswald, and I think the key part of your

5 |jtestimony that we are concerned with, not so much the question
6 about ‘any inconsistencies in it, but are you right on the big
7 |lquestion, namely, was Lee Harvey Oswald a KGB agent?
8 I want to mention, I have been a little surprised by your
testimony, bythe gaps in your knowledge of Oswald, and really

how little you knew about him. For example, when he went to

iy Minsk, he was tranferred out of your oversight, I take it, and

12 |as I understood you, you did not know he was married until

eS 13 later on, and did not know he had gone back to the United
. ' ;
if yStates.
15 | Mr. Nosenko. Mr. Congressman, if I was staying and
i . .
15 [working '6é0 and '61 period in the same Seventh Department which
{ .
7 sent file on Oswald in Minsk, I would iknow, but I was working
14 Tin First American Department. |
1g Mr. Preyer. Right. Now, I am not questioning you about.
99 jjithat. The question I wonder, that that brings to my mind is,
a ie Oswald-had been a KGB agent, are you certain you would have ©
39 |known it? In other words, if you didn't even know he was -

married, didn't even know he had gone to the United States,

e |
os : !
: 4 i
. iT

|

24 [couldn't he have been a KGB agent in that period without your

iknowledge, or are you certain --

: TOP SecReT
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1 Mr. Preyer. Mr. Nosenko, your testimony™has-been:considere


| «TGR SENET

iil

Mr. Nosenko. ‘No; I couldn't,- you are absolutely right, I

o., 2 . . ; . . ; ; oo

. { couldn't ‘know. But in-'63 when happened assassination of
3 the President, when it was mentioned that Oswald shot the
@: 4 | President, when it start, demanded the file back from Minsk,
3 when started conversation with Minsk, started in KGB. investi-
46 gation, detailed approach. “this is what --
? Mr. Preyer.’. So you convincea that seeing the first sectio --
a Mr. Nosenko. Seeing the first section in which the most
| important material in the whole file will be this in first
10 section of the first volume. | SO as
| , Mr. Preyer. Wexe the rest of the sections of. that file,
7! incidentally, wire -- telephone taps?
ee. JOG _ Mr. Nosenko. It will be information from agents in
~ 4 | secona part. In third part’ will be from telephone conversa-
1s] tions, from survedtiance. In fourth part, photocopies of mereenes
| oo

16 | different mail, when they checking Soviet connections, Soviet
17 | tetenas of Oswald. | - |

Mx. Preyer. “Well, on this question of your knowledge |

13
19 Oswald and being in position to know about him, you knew sole

20 | the cablegram from Mexico yet you did not ‘know he had gone back
21 | to the United States. Is that because you had moved too-- |
2 |

®@ . vat Mr. WNosenko. Again, I returned in Seventh Department
, La I was working '62, '63, up to '64 in Seventh Department
24 | and the cablegram has come in Seventh Department. Seventh ”

Department was started against Oswald in "59,

son smut oem «=o POP SECRET

1UP Sebel

12.
i Mr. Preyer. Have you read a lot about the Oswald case
on 2 | in recent years? .
3 Mr. Nosenko. Well, I read several books, what appeared.
©. 4 I only didn't read the last book which was written about Marina
- 5 | Oswald by Mrs. Priscilla Johnson. Why? Because I knew
6 that I would appear here, that the staff of your. -- your
7 | staff will be talking with me. TI didn't wanted something to
g | get -- I can, you know, mix what I knew and something to use
| what I got from the book.
10 Mr. Preyer. I just wondered if you had read about the
" Mexican cable, and perhaps through the: years may have been --
12 Mr. Nosenko. No, I never have seen that it was mentioned
& , 13 | Mexican cable. TI have seen that he visited Mexico, in Mexico |
an 14 | visited Soviet and Cuban embassies. This I have seen in books,
ig | this fact. ;
tt ;
16 | Mr. Preyer. If I have got one more moment, Mr. Chairman,
7 to change the subject, one of the things that struck me is
a that when you defected, as Mrs. Burke mentioned, in Geneva,
1g | in 1964, very shortly after the Kennedy Assassination, I get |
20 the impression that the CIA or American forces to whom you |

defected, did not have much to say about the assassination or

Mr. Nosenko. They are -- I mentioned must be Oswald, the |

24 | asked. But they were asking different, whatever cases I can

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-to take this type of information. They asked me about Oswald.

(UP SECRET | 13

’ i

from what country, this they were interested, as much as possible

T told.them what I knew.
The Chairman The ;time of the gentleman has expired.
Mr. Devine.

Mr. Devine. I don't want to know where you live, but

do you reside in the general area of the nation's capital?
Mr. Nosenko. I was living in this area up to 19 -- middle

of 1973, but FBI gentlemen -- I didn't mention , I also meeting}

FBI people when I am here, not only CIA, but they are not paying .
mesanything. FBI people inform me that they have information

that KGB trying to locate me. Then it happened in the area

where I was Living in Maryland up to 1973, I was ina

shopping center, and on me was coming a Soviet from KGB. [I kne

his face, and this whole -- I immediately reported this and

we decided that for me better to move from the area where

are freely traveling and can spot me.

Mr. Devine. That person didn't recognize you?

Mr. Nosenko. I immediately turned and went, turned my bac
and went in another direction.

Mr. Devine. Have you been contacted or in touch with
anyone from the Soviet Embassy here in Washignton?

Mr. Nosenko. Only in 1964, the Soviet Embassy in

“Washihgteon: demanded to see me after defection.:

Soviet diplomats, KGB officer working under cover of diplomats
\
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| Mr. Devine. Did you see them?
|

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, in the State Department, in presence
of American diplomats, I have seen for five, say seven
minutes, Consul from Soviet Embassy and interpreter, another

‘diplomat.

Mr. Devine. What did they want with you?
Mr. Nosenko. - They ask me how could I do it, and do I

understand the importance of this thing, that I defected from

question, it is absolutely my own decision, and decision of fre
will, which T made long ago, and without any return. Then they

‘told me now we know how to treat you, and’ what do you ehitik

about your Soviet citizenship.

\
| I said, it's automatically, :I am rejecting its I

‘ynot need. And on this I finished conversation.

the country, and I said, gentlemen, nobody’ pushed me on this =

Mr. Devine. They made no threats of reprisals against

your family back there?

(
{
|
|
i
i
\
if
|
|

Mr. Nosenko. No, no. They later only, Mr. Congressman,

jthey later sent two letters, one from wife and another from
lay mother. These letters were delivered by them. They visit
|

American embassy in Moscow and had left these two letters.

These letters were sent by American embassy in Moscow to

: . . {
State Department, State Department had given to CIA, CIA had

given me these letters. I answered one short note that my

|decision is final, decision ideological and in spite of all

|

|
{

secretes rae. «TOP SECRET an

U0? SeGRET ous

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

4

Mrs. Burke.

Mrs. Burke. I have just a few random questions. You

f

i
1 || my love to the family, and in spite of my respect to the |
i 2 memory of the father, I can repeat that if he was alive I would
- 3 | also would do the same, that is all. |
a 4 Mr. Devine. Getting back to one of Mr. Stoke's questions |
- 5 | about the amount of money paid to you for your years of
6 incarceration, the fact that they gave you $15,000 or $20,000
; which you used for furniture and so forth, were there any
3 | strings tied to either of those funds, the $80,000 or the subse
7 quent amount?
vi Mr. Nosenko. No, sir, no.
" Mr. Devine. That you would not contact the pressor
12 || anybody else about this?
ge 12 | Mr. Nosenko. No, it never was mentioned, never.
_ | . | :
Soe” a | Mr. Devine. No strings attached?
isl Mr. Nosenko. No. -
te | Mr. Devine. Finally, do you have any knowledge of any.
| connection with Oswald and the assassination of President
13 | Kennedy?
19 Mr. Nosenko. — No, sir.
20 Mr. Devine. From your connections in the KGB at that time .
a | Mr. Nosenko. Whatever I said, nothing more. I do not
| know anything.
|
iP i
|
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# and published an article and put even a picture. And surely

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i
mentioned Priscilla Johnson's book.i.:Did. you by. any. chance
while you were working in the American tourist area,. did you
have any occasion to investigate her coming to Russia or did

she come during any of that time as a student?

Mr. Nosenko. Priscilla Johnson?

Mrs. Burke. Yes.

Mr. Nosenko. Why, yes, her name, she was a correspondent
in Moscow working, and KGB didn't like her dispatches and they
made very, very rude operations against her. They --

Mrs. Burke. What did they do.

Mr. Nosenko. Hih?

Mrs. Burke. What did they do to her?

Mr. Nosenko. Well, they wanted to get rid of her from the |
Soviet Union. They didn't see possibility to recruit her. mel
didn't see any possibility to find or to create compromising
situation. They didn't like her dispatches which they were

anti-Soviet. Then they decided to get rid of her, and they

made such an operation in restaurant where she had dinner in
evening. They put drugs in her liquor, which she was —
wine: or vodka or whatever it would be, and she was absolutely

drunk. And she was delivered in local regional, one of _
“regional little -~ it's not clinic, it is where they deliver |
. : : t
drunks to spend night. And they put her there and made photo :

pictures of her being drunk and other women drunk laying there

TOP SECRET

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J

12
@. 13

745
16

17

esos vatasinos nen TOP SECRET a

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she was immediately recalled by her agency or her newspapers fo
which she was working.

Mrs. Burke. Do you think that is the wrong Priscilla -
Johnson? |

“Mr. Edgar. If the gentlewoman would yield, are you sure
that you are talking about the sames person?

Mr. Nosenko. Priscilla Johnson, yes, this correspondent,
yes.

Mrs.Burke. Let me ask you one other question.

When she was there, did she interview Oswald?

Mr. Nosenko. I know it is now reading here the books. I
didn't know that she interviewed. I only found qit it with
living in the United States, with reading books.

Mrs. Burke. That she interviewed him. That aian't show
in your file?

Mr. Nosenko. I didn't read her book -~ this is what in
some other books mentioned that shé had interviewed him.

“Mrs. Burke. Let me- ask again about Oswald in Minsk, and
first of all, can American tourists go to Minsk easily?

ur. Nosenko. Minsk is open city, yes. °

Mrs. Burke. ‘It is an open city now. Was it an open

city then?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
Mrs. Burke. And when he was there, of course, I realize

that you don't know and you did not keep up with what he was


(OP SECRET | ie

1 | doing there, but in reading that file, in the first few
—_ 3 pages or anything, did you notice ‘anything in terms of his
- 3 | contacts with Americans, or did you notice anything at all
@. 4 | that was extrardoinary about him?
- 5 Mr. Nosenko. No, there wasn't. For the whole his period
6 j}of time there wasn't found any» indication on suspicion,
7 || Suspicious meetings or anything suspicion concerning his contacts
g | with Americans.
9 | Mrs. Burke. Let me -- As I understand it, it was fairly
10 | routine that everyone's phone would be tapped, so that that
\
7 ll was not --
12 | Mr. Nosenko. Yes.
@ 3 | Mrs. Burke. -- your information that that would be
i 4 | nothing unusual.
“1g | You know, there is one thing that is bothering me, and
16 | that is the inconsistency and the greater detail that is presen
V7 today than in your earlier statements.
12 Could you give.us an explanation of why there is more de-
4 tail today?
20 For instance, in your earlier statements I noticed you
31 refer to the interpreter as a tourist, the tourist guide, as.
on just.a tourist guide or an interpreter? Today you referred

:

iby name to that person. And again, the two psychiatrists --

-
Me net

Mr. Nosenko. I don't know. even now name of this inter-

ipreter. I do not remember name.

?
t

t
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t
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1 Mrs. Burke. I see. I thought --
24° _Mr. Nosenko. Interpreter, I never mentioned. .
3 | Mrs. Burke. You never mentioned the interpreter?
4 | Mr. Nosenko. No. I go not remember her name.
5 Mrs. Burke. It was just this officer Rastrusin?
6 Mr. Nosenko. Officer, yes.
7 Mrs. Burke. He was ~- but he was the one that found --
3 wasn't he the one that found Oswald?
- | Mr. Nosenko. No, this is the officer who reported about
10 ain. |
a Mrs. Burke. He reported it, but he didn't find him?
2 Mr. Nosenko. No, no, interpreter found him with
3 [pseinistsation of the hotel where Oswald was staying.
14 Mrs. Burke. oh, I see.
st Mr. Nosenko. You see, interpreter has come in the -
“6 morning to take him or has come to take him to city, to show |
- i him, as interpreter on a guide, on a tour. And she was waiting
13 }about 20, 25, 30 minutes and was concerned.
9 | _ The Chairman. Time is up. One more.
| Mrs. Burke. All ; right, just one more question. |
2
4 When Oswald arrived, then, he didn't “speak very much |
29 Russian, is that right? |
| Mr. Nosenko. No. Ididn't hear that he spoke in Russian. |
mn Mrs. Burke. I see. Were there any notations at all in “
ne | ile -- what is your understanding of his fluency in Russian |
a - | | |
| |
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during the time of his stay?

Mr. Nosenko. Well, during time of his stay surely he
started a Little pit to talk, but it wasn't very, it wasn't
good Russian. It wasn't even _.

The Chairman. The time of the gentlewoman has expired.

Mrs. Burke. Thank you.

The Chairman... Mr. Dodd.

Mr. Dodd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

E would like to just pick up on that line of questioning,.
if I could, with you, Mr. Nosenko.

Correct me-if I am wrong, but as I understand it, Oswald, ©
you were aware of Oswald's desire to defect. There was a.
decision, and in fact he was informed through his Intourist
guide that his request had been rejected.

Issthatc:correctsso/ far?

Mr. Nosenko. Is in general, but it wasn't in this ways
told to him. It was in so-called, you know, soft manner. It
was explained to him by through Intourist =~

Mr. bodd. That he would have to go through his embassy?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, that Intourist not dealing with this

question. He must go through ‘this, this, this procedures.

Mr. Dodd. Okay.
Now, you, at the time of this, of Oswald's request, you
were working in the Seventh Department of the Second Directoratd

which was involved with tourism?

nme scumnlon oe «=—sSsTOP SECRET

TOP SeGReT err

Mr. Dodd. Okay. Could you tell me what would be the
normal operating procedures within the Soviet Union if a

tourist were involved, say, in a car accident with an Intourist

q
da

so Say a Frenchman was involved in a car accident. Assuming
6 | it was not his fault, someone hit him, what happens? Do
7 || they notify immediately the French Embassy, what steps do they
g | take in order to deal with that individual?
9 Mr. Nosenko. I would assume, sir, that he will be,
10 | Sure, he immediately will be taken inpolyclinic, will be informe
1 nis embassy.
2 Mr .oDodd. Those kind of steps.
@ | , 13 | Mr. Nosenko. Right.
_ 14 Mr. Dodd. If you had made.a decision that! ‘Oswald should
yg qnot be accepted in the Soviet Union, and if you find him in

|
|
i
|
46 jis room with his wrist slit, why don't you then contact the

y7 American Embassy and notify them that you have an American on
1g lyour hands who just tried to kill himself?
9 Mr. Nosenko. Sir, he wasn't an employee of American
ape
a1 Mr. Dodd. He was a tourist, though.
| Mr.Nosenko. A tourist.
eo. 44 | Mr. Dodd. And I just ‘asked you about a Frenchman who might
. ne be a tourist and get in a car accident, a and you said you would

\
a6 take him to the hospital, you would notify the embassy. Why

vin

mbassy. - a |
|

|

|

cos uaa men TOP SECRET

TUP SECRET . 122
don't. you take Mr. Oswald to the hospital and notify the ~

aa 2 os ‘
yt American embassy?
3 _ Mr. Nosenko. Nobody knew that he would cut wrist.

Mr. Dodd. No, but you found him with his wrist cut.

Mr. Nosenko. Right. He was delivered in hospital

Mr. Dodd. Why didn't you notify the American embassy?

Mr. Nosenko. He wasn't dying, he wasn't serious, they
made transfusion and put stitches. It is -- I am telling what
I think why it was.

: ‘

Mr. Dodd. You understand my problem here. You have got
someone who you don't want to accept him. You have already
12 |

made a decision that he shouldn't be allowed to defect. You

| walk into his room and find him with his wrist slit, it would

e . 13

14 | seem to me that this guy has already indicated just by that ac
45 alone that he is not playing with a full deck of cards, and |
16 you decide then.that you are going to accept him because you
| | .
17 are worried that it might cause some embarrassment after Camp
19 Mr. Nosenko. No. But the question to inform the Embassy,

it must be passing through such stage. Intourist itself _
contact the American Embassy.

{
|
i
|
|
|
13 | David.
|
|
|
Mr. Dodd. No, obviously.
i

Mr. Nosenko. No. They must contact their Minister of

TN ae

Foreign Trade which in its turn putting question to Ministry olf

Foreign Affairs, and Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Soviet

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123

Union can contact the embassy.

Mr. Dodd. LEt me jump onto something else quickly in the
time we've got.

You knew that Lee Harvey Oswald was a Marine?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes.

Mr. bodd. You knew by. your answer to Mrs. Burke's questio
a minute ago that Oswald had a student's knowledge of Russian?

Mr. Nosenko. When he was living in Minsk, not before,
before he has come. No. . .

Mr. Dodd. You didn't know that?

Mr. Nosenko. No, when he was living in Minsk, when he

was in daily contact with Soviets working at the plant and

|
having friends. ; ; :
Mr. Dodd. Did you know that he had been a student of |
Marxism? |
Mr. Nosenko. No.
Mr. Dodd. Did you know that he had given the U.S.
embassy his notice to defect?
Mr. Nosenko. No. I know that he visited embassy and |
|

after was, he was told that he will be allowed to stay, after

this.

!
Mr. Dodd. You were not aware at that time that he con- j
5 i-

|

tacted through Intourist and eventually your office and made

were not aware or your department was not aware that he had

|
it known that he intended to defect or wanted to defect, you
1
|
{

‘wr ssss vatasesives veo TOP SECRET |

HOP SEGRET 7 1a

already notified the American embassy that he intended to
defect? |

Mr. Nosenko.. No, no, no, sir. .

Mr. Dodd. You were not aware of that.

Mr. Nosenko. No. He wasn't under surveillance... We
didn't know. When he was going alone without interpter, we
didn't know. | |

Mr. Dodd. I didn't ask you how you know. I just asked
you whether or not -- he didn't tell you that?

Mr. Nosenko. No. Nobody from KGB talked with him.»

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

“Mr. Sawyer?

Mr. Sawyer. When Congressman Devine asked you how you

&

knew your family was okay or that they hadn't invoked any

reprisals, I didn't get the answer.
Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I asked Mr. Solie in '69, '70, once

I asked, anything about my family?
Mr. Sawyer. Mr. who? '
Mr. Nosenko. Mr. Bruce Solie, CIA officer who was in |

“contact with me, '69, '70. He answered me that they are all

right, everything okay. But he didn't went in any detail

and I never returned more to this question. But there is anoefer

; point, sir. Besides the father's position, after he died, she |

was receiving, she received pension, and besides that,. for

the years -- _

ws sons necicsetrm vein «=—COOP SECRET

(UP ScGReT

1250
1 Mr. Sawyer. How did you know she died? — |
_ 2 Mr. Nosenko. ‘Father died, 1 said. Father died in 1956.
— 3 After father's death she received a pension. a
@. 4 . Mr. Sawyer. I understand. You went through that before. |
- g I noticed here though, when he slashed his wrist, the
6 psychiatric examination report. here by the doctor says the
7 patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian,
3 SO he must have spoken Russian, you know, to. whatever degree,
- when he went there. I thought you said you were always
10 | interested in someone who can speak Russian or has studied
n | anything Russian.
12 Mr. Nosenko. Who specializes in any field of Russia, |
@ 13 || who will be working for the united States government. I
oO ag Mr. Sawyer. But here is a guy at that time, when he cing

yg | came there, within a matter of days after, the doctor says the

16 | patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. |

“4 Mr. Nosenko. In Russian Institute.

Mr. Sawyer. It says on the report, this was on the 21st |

or the 23rd or 25th of October, a week after he arrived, it

VW Mr. Nosenko. Sir --.

1a | Mr. Sawyer. That would have keyed interest right there,
19 | wouldn't it?

| -Mr. Nosenko. Sir, if ve knew that he studied in Columbia |
na University, in Yale University =—_

al Mr. Sawyer. Well, it says right --

ip I 7
;

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126 H

says the patient apparently understands the questions asked

in Russian. So you knew he spoke Russian at that time. And yet

)
F
nn?

3 that was one of your criteria.
@ % 4 MreiNosenko?t. .Wéll;, sir’ +s.:
5 Mr. Sawyer. Something else I am a little curious about.

6 Apparently, coming here, wanting to defect, wanting to leave

7 America, wanting Russia, here is a guy that if he didn't
8 know anything would be. ‘apparently capable of going back to the
9 | United States at the behest of KGB in areas of the country that

10 Russian diplomats and so forth, KGB people weren't. allowed to g

;
Wy and dig up information for. them and come back. Here is a guy
{

12 you didn't have to threaten, he volunteers. And it seems strange
@. 13 | you wouldn't talk to him or be interested in him just from that
os 14 point of view.
1s | And how -- and another thing that greatly bothers me,
i.
- 16 | how did you know that he, being in the Marines, you knew that,

7 |) but how did you know he wasn't a cryptographer or how did

13 you know he wasn't stationed in the Office of the Joint Chiefs
e

19 | Of Staff as a guard or as a messenger or a clerk, or that he >

20 worked with U-2s, which apparently he did. Why would the KGB

not at least find these things out, with a guy that-wants to

RD
so

go to Russia, wants to be a Russian?
Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I only can repeat you, when on him was

. received the first information about his arrival, checkup was

made on him. There wasn't any existing material in KGB, any

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knowledge about him. He never. was before in the Soviet Union.
In judging by the question --
Mr. sawyer. Why weren't they asking, why wouldn't they
ask, that's the question. Why wouldn't they ask?
Mr. Nosenko. They are not --
Mr. Sawyer. Apparently they knew he could speak Russian.

‘Mr. Nosenko. -- asking Americans approaching.

Judging by the questionnaire, they decided, the KGB decide

Seventh Department, he is not an /interesting target.

Mr. Sawyer. Well, why would a person like this not even
be interesting for something like the Tokyo Rose, on some kind
of propaganda program where he could say how bad things were
in the United States, and why he didn't want to stay theres
anymore and how great they were in Russia, like ‘these
propagandists do?

| Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I am telling you why it was decided,
and how KGB was thinking about him. -

Mr. Sawyer. I yield back the balance of my time.

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Fithtans.

Mr. Fithian. Mr. Chairman, I just now got this report.
I wonder if I could let Mr.Edgar go ahead of me?

The Chairman. The Chair will recognize Mr. Edgar.

Mr. Edgar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have a series of questions which I hope most of which

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man. Tt would seem to. me the KGB would have discovered that

tUp SeGRET , . 128

will be yes and no kinds of questions.

Did you conduct in the KGB a program to compromise and
recruit journalists?
Mr. Nosenko. I was working, when I started to work in th

KGB in 1953, the first year I was working against American

- correspondents.

Mr. Edgar. But ‘the KGB, not you personally, but the KGB
did have a policy of going against journalists and trying to.
compromise them, yes or no??

Mr. Nosenko. Trying to recruit or compromise them.

Mr. Edgar. Did they censor all the journalists' notes
that they could gather from the journalists? Did they censor
the notes before they allowed the story to go out?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

Mr. Edgar. Priscilla Johnson interviewed Oswald on the
15th of November, 1959. Would the KGB have looked at her
notes from that interview?

Mr. Nosenko. Sir, they -we censored not by the KGB, but
there is special -- it is government organization was censoring
this. “Some Materials are coming to the KGB, some are not |
coming. H

Mr. Edgar. Well, she reveals in her article that he was a

‘

Marxist, that Oswald was a Marxist and a Marine Corps radar

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Mr. Nosenko. ‘Sir, I didn't know this in those days.
“Mr. Edgar. Do: you know a_corres¥ondent by. the name...d f
| ArdenesMosby?? |

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, I heard such a name, Mosby, a woman
who was a correspondent. |

‘Mr. Edgar. In the earlier. questioning of Congresswoman
Burke, -you were not confusing “Arlene Mosby with the treatment
f
of Priscilla Johnson?

Mr. Nosenko. 4 think ‘it was Priscilla Johnson, the case
which I described, I think: so. _i think so, it was priscilla
Johnson.

Mr. Edgar. How) do you know?

Mr. Nosenko. What I heard from colleagues who were in
KGB, who were working against ‘correspondents.
Mr. Edgar. But you are not absolutely clear?
‘Mr. Nosenko. And then there was .an article in --
Mr. Edgar. You are not absolutely --
. Mr. Nosenko. In Literary newspaper, I think it was, not
in Pravad, Izvestia; but in Literary Gazette.
Mr. Edgar. But. you are not absolutely certain?
Mr. Nosenko. No.: TI. think it was Priscilla JOhnson, as

I said.

Mr, Edgar. But|/it could have been someone else.
Mr. Nosenko. An American correspondent, woman .- -

Mr. Edgar. Are you certain that after 1967 you sat down

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with the CIA and corrected your earlier statements about Oswald,
yes or no?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

Mr. Edgar. We have only a few pages of written testimony,
some three pages that you gave, and in fact, in the beginning
part of that testimony, you indicate that you don't want to go -:
through it again because your earlier testimony will stand for,
itself. I am paraphrasing what you said.

Were the notes and the recordsings of those corrections
made and kept by the CIA?

Mr. NOsenko. Sir, Mr. Bruce Solie talking with me every day
for a period from the end of '67, the whole '68, 1968, '69, every
conversation he was recording. But he never has come and showed
his notes, transcriptions or anything. He was returning to
every case, to every aspect by 20, 25, 30 times.

Mr. Edgar. But specifically on the Oswald case, would it
be correct in our assuming that it was more than three pages of
notes on specifically Lee Harvey Oswald after 1967?

Mr. Nosenko. If he was raising questions concerning also
Lee Harvey Oswald.

MR. Edgar. We have some information that Bruce Solie --

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, Mr. Solie.

Mr. Edgar. Stated in a deposition that there is nothing on

Oswald other than the three pages.

Mr. Nosenko. I cannot ay how many pages. I know
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that he was passing through all cases, all questions, with me
for the period almost two years.

Mr. Edgar. Who other than Bruce Solie did you talk to about
correcting your earlier statements?

Mr. Nosenko. I wasn't correcting them. They were correcting
they were talking returning back to every case.

Mr. Edgar. One final question.

Mr. Nosenko. And also besides Mr. Solie, were people coming
from FBI with cases in which were: interested for them.

Mr. Edgar. One final question. You stopped our hearing
about an hour ago and were concerned about our playing the tape
andbringing up old memories, and I respect the fact that you are
very patriotic in coming before this Committee and helping us.

Would you be willing to sit down with our staff and go
through a series of written questions which outline specifically
for you the contradictions of your 1964, '65, '66 and early ‘67
timeframe, with the statements that you made, in '67, '68 and
'78, and indicate in a yes-no manner which statement, laid side
by side, is true and which statement is false?

Mr. Nosenko. If it is the wish of the Committee, sure..

Mr. Edgar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. |

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

Mr. Fithian?

Mr. Fithian. Mr. Nosenko, do you remember when it was that

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Mr. Nosenko. Sir, I. do not remember dates, but --
Mr. Fithian. It was between February and April?
Mr. Nosenko. Right, right.

Mr. Fithian. The information we have is that it was early

March, the first week in March. Is that about right?

Now Haver:you talked to the FBI about that testimony at any
time since then?
Mr. Nosenko.

Gentlemen, on many, many times I have seen

FBI, many, many questions raised. I cannot -- about this testi-

mony, no, no.

Mr. Fithian. About the Oswald testimony?

Mr. Nosenko. ' About Oswald were asked questions, but not about
this testimony . I do not remember about this testimony.
Mr. Fithian. My question is, there is a written transcript ©
summary of your testimony to the FBI taken on March 5th, 1964.

Mr. Nosenko. Right.
Mr. Fithian.. My guestion is, have you at any time since
then visisted with the FBI about this testimony?

Mr. Nosenko.. No, sir, no, sir.

Now, next, when -- what is your understanding

Mr. Fithian.
as to when Oswald first offered to defect, when you first knew,
when the KGB first knew he was interested in defecting?

Mr. Nosenko. I cannot give you a date.
Mr. Fithian. All right.

Well, he filled out an application --

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1 Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no application, in oral form. He
2 | told the interpreter in oral form.

3 Mr. Fithian. This was the Intourist?

@ 4 Mr. Nosenko. Interpreter of the Intourist.
5 Mr. Fithian. And then the Intourist came to the KGB?
6 Mr. Nosenko. Right, and it immediately was informed to KGB

7 | that this American applies, wants to stay, said to interpreter.
8 Mr. Fithian. And then you reviewed the file?
9 Mr. Nosenko. It was several pieces of pages what we had on

10 him. It wasn't even file.

VW Mr. Fithian. But you reviewed whatever applications --

12 Mr. Nosenko. Right. No it wasn't application to stay. He i
13 oral form told the interpreter that he wants to stay Soviet

14 | Union.

15 Mr. Fithian. You reviewed the pages that he had filled out
16 | for the visa and any other sheets that you had?

17 . Mr. Nosenko. He didn't -- yes, these documents, yes, for

18 | the visa, questionnaire and -~

19 Mr. Fithian. Yes. . What I am trying to get at is what did

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20 you have in front of you physically, knowledgeably about Oswald?

21 Mr. NOsenko. What I remember, it was it was several pages
& 22 only; was questionnaire, was form of document from Intourist
23 received how long his tour and how many days. There was checks ~

24 of Oswald in archives of KGB to forms. There was information from

25/| tntourist who Work apel eh
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Mr. Fithian. All right. Let me just stop you here,

Mr. Nosenko. Yes.

Mr. Fithian. The forms in there by the KGB were filled out
based on what information?

Mr. Nosenko. On his name, what he supplied, who he is, when
he was asking visa.

Mr. Fithian. But they conducted no check, no search?

Mr. Nosenko. It is in the archives of KGB, if he ever was
in Soviet Union, on him there will be something. If he wasn't in
Soviet Union but he was known to intelligence service --

Mr. Fithian. But you didn't have any record on that.

Mr. Nosenko. Nothing.

Mr. Fithian. And so the final question is that the only
thing that you had to judge -that he was an uninteresting subject
was what he had told the Intourist guide?

Mr. Nosenko. Right.

Mr. Fithian. That is the only substantive thing?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir, and his questionnaire for who he

-is, his name, whatever he filled about himself. . That's all.

The Chairman. The time of the gentleman has expired.

The Chair has one additional request from one member, for
one additional question.

Mr. Sawyer?

Mr. Sawyer. I just have one additional question, and that is

the $80,000 you got for compensation and’ the $15,000 or $20,000

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you got Later, that was net vee after whatever taxes or whatever
it was. --

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, after all taxes were taken.

Mr. Sawyer. Thank you.

Mr. Dodd. Mr. Chairman?

The Chairman. Mr. Dodd?

Mr. Dodd. I just wondered for the record, I wondered if,
Mr. Nosenko, you could tell us when you arrived in this country on
February l2th, 1964, hetween February i2th, 1964 and April 4th,
1964, where were you in this country? |

Mr. Nosenko. February 12 of 1964 and April ath, I was staying
in house in Virginia. I do not know address.

Mr. Dodd. Did you go -- did you travel at all?

Mr. Nosenko. No, sir.

Mr. Dodd. No vacation? . oot,

Mr. Nosenko. Oh, I went in March on week to Hawaii.I was.

Mr. Dodd. Were you on your own?

Mr. Nosenko. No, no, no, with guards.

Mr. Dodd. It was a relaxed period for you and just a chance
to rest?

Mr. Nosenko. Chance to get a little bit rest.

| Mr. Dodd. Is it your knowledge that this is the normal way

Mr.

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that defectors are treated when they come to this country?

Mr. Nosenko. I do not know.

Dodd. Just one last point, Mr. / Chairman, and that is

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with regard to the American exhibit, as a result of a statement by
Mr. Klein which I understand you did not disagree with, the American

exhibit ended on Sepgember 4th, 1959? That's when the termination

of the exhibit was?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, he showed’ me an: article.

Mr. Dodd. Is it your knowledge that employees that worked
during the exhibit stayed on for a period of time after that?

Mr. Nosenko. Sure, to it will be disassembled, this is the
whole process is going on. It is closed for visitors to visit,
to look.

Mr. Dodd. How long a period would that have been, a week?

Mr. Nosenko. No, more.

Mr.:Dodd. More?

Mr. Nosenko. More, sure.

Mr Doddi . Thank you, Mr.Chairman.

The Chairman. Mr. Nosenko, with reference to your earlier
comments this evening regarding what transpired during your
period of isolation, which you described as extreme spartan
conditions, I would like to make this request of you. I think the
record ought to in a very graphic way portray those conditions
under which you were subjected during that period of time, and
while you are complying with Mr. Edgar's request and working with
the staff in terms of the contradictory data, would you also agree
to work with the staff in terms of seeing that the record has a

complete and accurate description --

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Mr. Nosenko.

The Chairman. --of all the conditions which you:'underwent:*
during that period? .

Mr. Nosenko. yes, sir.

The Chairman. Thank..you.

Did you have.some?:.:

Mr. Cornwell. Following up on the question that Congressma
Dodd just asked you, the staff, in an attempt to-determine how lon
it took to disassemble the exhibition, checked with a knowledge-
able employee who was involved in that process in the State.
Department and were informed by that person that the exhibition
was disassembled and the persons who were operating it had
left by October the 4th, approximately 30 days after the
exhibition was terminated.

Would you disagree with that information?

Mr. Nosenko. No, sir, I cannot disagree. I do not remember.
I do not know, even, when they left, no, sir.

Mr. Cornwell. That is all I have.

The Chairman. Anything further from the Committee?

Now, Mr. Devine, do you have anything?

Mr. Devine. No. He is under continuing subpoena. '

The Chairman. Under the rules of the Committee, Mr. Nosenko,
any witness appearing before our Committee is entitled at the
conclusion of his testimony to address the Committee for a

period of five minutes for the purpose of clarifying anything

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for the record or making any statement he so desires, and I want
to at this time afford you that five minute period to make such a
statement, if you so desire.

Mr. Nosenko. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I consider
my appearance, invitation to appear at Committee, as I told also
the same applies before, my meetings with the staff of the Commit-
tee, I consider it honor, gredtihonor for me. I will try to
answer whatever: ‘I remember, whatever I know as only truth, and
but the truth. And you would like to see me-appear at any time,
Iam at your disposal and I will try to give you the only things
what I know.

The Chairman. Thank you.

That is the completion of your statement, sir?

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Mr. Nosenko, on behalf of the Committee and
the United States Congress, I want to express our appreciation to
you for having appeared here and having given this Committee the
benefit of your testimony. At this time I would remind you of
the terms of your agreement to work with our staff and provide
further information to the Committee, that you will continue
under the cath administered to you by this Committee.

Mr. Nosenko. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Thank you very much for your appearance
here.

Mr. Nosenko. Thank you, sir.

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The Chairman. You are excused.

At this time, there being no. further business to come
before the Committee, the meeting is adjourned subject to the
call of the Chair.

(Whereupon, at 10:17 o'clock p.m., the Committee was

adjourned subject to the call of the Chair.)

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