178-10002-10279)

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v9]

JFK Assassination system
Identification Form

Agency Information

ROCKCOM
178-10002-10279

*

ASSASSINATION FILES
A-I(J) CORRESPONDENCE--ASSASSINATIONS

Document Information

ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION
DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM STURBITTS

04/16/1975
4

ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES
CIA

STURBITTS, WILLIAM
FITZGERALD, DESMOND
KENNEDY, ROBERT
CUBAN EXILES

DEPOSITION
Secret

1A; 1B; 1C
Redact
02/13/2001

Selected pages from deposition. Full document is number 1781000210091.

HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 1

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Examination by Counsel

For the Commission

2

i (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)

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2 ~ | PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
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. . Langley, Virginia |
. Wednesday, April 16, 1975 :
i i
64
H Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for
23 - a op ea gs
| @xamination by Counsel for the Commission on CTA Activities,
8: . ;
: the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary |
;
G 3 i ; toe . .
; Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
“fe Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50 |
~
I. i o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings
J
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3 +6 ' being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and
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5 “* APPEARANCES:
23 if On behalf of the Commission:
1é GEORGE MANFREDI, #SQ., |
in 4 ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.
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Thereupon,

called as

SECRET

PROCEEDINGS !

Tt ay mn gag

WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,

a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA

Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary

Public,

Q
record?

A

Q

weeks ago

' Waiver"?

A

Q

A

was examined and testified as follows: |

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the

William C. Sturbitts.
Mr. Sturbitts, do vou recall when we spoke some

you signed a document entitled, "Advice and

Right.

You’ understand that document is still in effect?
Sure.

Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?
You mean the Agency or -~

That is right.

Central Intelligence Agency. .

And what is your current position with the Agency?

I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for

Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations.

Q

And would you briefly review for me the history of

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your employment with the Agency?

A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence
Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on special

detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plans,

which is now the Directorate of Operations.

Q What year were you put on that detail?

A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.

Q And what did that detail involve?
[

A Cuban operations, economic warfare.

Q And how long were you on that detail? |

A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.

Q Between 1964 and. 1973?

A (Nods in affirmative.) |
i And in 1973 did you assume your current position? |
A Yes, January.

Q Now, while you were on special detail -- to the DOD?

A Yes. . |

9 Were you stationed in Washington? |
A Yes. . |
Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami? |
A Yes.

9) Were your activities in Miami in any way connected

with the operations of the Miami Station?

A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.

I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami.

_ Photocopy from i
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39975454 Page 5

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Most of my operations were run out of Europe,

9 Run out of --

A Eurooe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones

were run out of Europe.

Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect
to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the
operations of the Miami base?

A Yes.

Q and the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?

A Yes, sir.

Q During the nine years you were with ppO's Cuban

operations, who was ~~ who were the chiefs of the Miami

Station?
A . t think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know

it.-Well, I will come back to that.
Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze.
9) What years was he Chief?
A think ‘Paul was there about a year and a half. He

left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's

say Henze was there from 1966 to 1968.
He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.

Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which
you were assigned for the %-year period?

A Well, when I first came in it was known as the

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Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.

And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations

Group.
Q
it attached to one of the area divisions?
A No.

called Task Force W which

that -- when Harvey left, he went to ‘Rt

and Fitzgerald took over,

Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was

Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing
was headed by Bill Harvey. And
Lef of<«Station, Rome,.

it became. Special Activities Staff.

It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the

Deputy Director, Plans.

after the

around ~-

Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?

A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it
was first created. Helms was DDP at that time.

Q And Task Force W was created immediately
Bay of Pigs? -

A Well, not immediately. I think sometime

in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was
September, something like that, 1961.

Q And that subsequently became the Special
Staff?

4A

Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went

back into the Western Hemisphere Division.

Q

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created in

Activities

Special Activities Staff and consequently became the

And what was the date of that reorganization?


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g A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around
g 2 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then
3 -
< & later DDP.
z 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. |
5 Harvey held after he left Task Force W? |
6 A Yes. He was#€hief Of Station, Rome.
7 Q And is he still with the Agency? |
—_ |
3 A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago.
g Q Do you know where he lives at the present time? :
1¢ A Frankly, = don't. I have an idea where he lives. :
12 He went to work for a friend cf mine who had a law firm.
;
7 12 Harvey is a lawyer. !
|
* 13 Q Indianapolis area?
< 14 A Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest,
Ls Indiana. |
|
1A Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force |
WwW WwW? |
12 A It was’the overall Cuban operations. |
19 Q Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab~ |
3 Q .
§ ; 4?
. 20 lished?
: 2] A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down|
z 4 H
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2 20 there about 1960 which was small, ‘in. Cora‘l: Gables.
2 a
: : . |
3 25 Q This was, then, orior to the Bay of Pigs?
sa wv
A ; , yes.
: 24 A Oh, yv
2 25 Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami
; _:
SEC RET Photocopy from |
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HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 8

SECRET

7
3 ;
3 “ Station running any operations against Cuba?
- 2:
a i A You mean prior to. the Bay of Pigs?
i 5 |
2 ' Q Yes.
z 4°
A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a
8
forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support typ
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thing. i
7) ; |
" 9 Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was
6 7 established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban
9° |
operations?
iC ; A Yes. |
J
Li: Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami
2
: Le Station?
£
‘ ic A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W.
3 is Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special
{
LS Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group?
16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station H
i” has no Cuban operations.
ic. Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi-
2 19" nated? . |
: 20 . A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down |
: |
3 £1 there in 1972. It was during fiscal year ‘72. I think it was |
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3 22 in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. |
2 eS Q And have those operations been terminated entirely |
5 ii |
3 24 ! or are they now run out of the Washington area? |
: :
. 25 4 A All- Cuban operations are run out of Washington. i

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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 9

SECRET

3 .
: : There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.
g 2 / 9 But there are some. Cuban operations being run out of
: the Washington area? i
: 4 A ‘Right.
a Q Is that correct? | |
6 A Right. Worldwide.
a ; Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may
8 i have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassin a-
9 : tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination |
lo! attempts that have been mounted -- |
A Right. |
2 12 | Q ~~ against Fidel Castro. In the course of your |
13 | activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such|
; 14° attempts? |
15! A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say |
16 : attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too
a strong a word.
18 Q Weil, can you place in time your first knowledge of
2 19 any such discussions?
: 20., A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions,
i 21 I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald
= fF '
: 22 | in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -- let me put
; 23 it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on
3 24 | with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as |
z 25 I recall, he wanted some British -~ I mean Belgian rifles and
SECRET | cousin |
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HY 50355 Docld: 32275454 Page 10

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m i Q Who wanted them?
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2 " A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think
3 4
at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going
e , H
~ on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another |
6 |
reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgeral
7 ; |
met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-|
a. . ; |
: tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. j
9 - . |
7 I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that vi

1c | os
~ we gave to your seople. But I don't know who was reviewing

: . |
‘And who were the parties to the conversation you over

aa them. . I think Belin was going to do it himself. |
3 le. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. |
= :
. te You said there were 19 volumes of documents with
< le
3 = respect to this. |
aan A 19 files, manila. |
+6 9 All having to do with possible assassination? |
iv A All having to do with this whole time period and --
1é can we go off the record for a minute?
3 9 (Discussion off.the record.)
: £0 BY MR. MANFREDI:
Es el” 9) The first knowledge of such conversations that you |
2 i
B " ; : : i i
5 22". had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. i
a i
a 23: : |
P 2: Fitzgerald?
Z 24 .. A tI simply overheard it, that is right.

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HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 11 M-

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Q And Mr. Fitzgerald?
A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other |

people. We were -- we had just moved the Station at that time,

"in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace

and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations
took place -- we waiked around the garden and tyat type of

thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody

was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations.

: A Yes.
Q I see.
Mr.’ Sanchez -- was he a member of the military?

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“ Q This was in Paris? . |
|

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“y., Sanchez was in the Special Activities Staff.

He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with

" Cuban militarystype.

Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive

instructions with respect to this activity from another

i) component of the Government?

A Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether

i they received instructions. [I have to assume, and I am pretty

i positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision.
And at this time vou have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was

i overseeing this deal, vresumably for his brother, and he was

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part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided,

Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall

in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of

Fidel Castro was discussed?

A No, not really.

Q You referred to this as the first occasion. |

i

A ‘This is the first -- |

9 Was there a second? 2

A -- the first time I knew about it or éven heard it

i

discussed. |
Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently

anderway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation

-- were there any other occasions in which this subject came

to your attention after this discussion in the garden in

Paris? ; |
A The only other thing that came to my attention was |

that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight
that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don't know,
but that is what LT was told.
Q When did you learn that? |
A Oh, I would assume in -- must have been early 1964,
around February, something like that.
0) Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

, Photocopy from
SEC RE! , Gerald Ford Library

32275454 Page 13

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Zz 7 MR. MANFREDI:~ On the record.
2 BY MR. MANFREDI:
a 9 Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by
° = the name of Frank Sturgis?
° A Indeed.
© Q Is your familiarity based on what you have read in
"
the press?
co: A No. It is what is contained in the files.
G ‘
° Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,
+ particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,
io - in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any
= Le connection with the Agency?
i a4
3 le. A I have.
z +:
z a ra) What were the results of that search?
25 A Absolutely no connection, never has been.
Lé Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about
it an employment relationship?
Lc A That is what I am speaking of.
2 19 e) Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of
: :
S 20. the Agency?
3 22 A No.
2 22° Q Was he ever a contract employee?
fF
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= ae A No.
re
a z4 2 Was he ever a reaular employee of the Agency?
7 25° A No. -

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HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 14


SECRET

3 .
: ~ Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the -
2 i Agency? . , |
3 ol :
: ° : A Not to my knowledge. |
* 2 Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
6 pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against |
6 :
Cuba? :
7 a . . i
A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this |
é Agency. |
9 ; Q How did vou learn of those operations? ;
io A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. :
LL: Q Now, are these recent FBI reports?
: 12 A Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the ;
z !
: 134 thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop |
: -4 over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and
+8 by the Bureau office in Miami.
~5 9 Do vou know who financed his activities? |
~7 A I have no idea.
2é Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were
3 19° indirectly financed by the Agency through ~- i |
: 20 A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of — |
E 21" fortune: has been. He has constantly tried to associate himselé
2 HI
3 22 | with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me
: 23° to classify the file and the way I classified it was “don't |
: Ba destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance."
265 | 9 Off the record. |
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HY 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 15

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~ (Discussion off the record.)
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a é ,
& MR. MANFREDI: On the record.
: So BY MR. MANFREDI:
7 : Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mri.
5 4
Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
€ ; ;
A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
7 ae a
Q And what is the volume of that material? . i
8 , _. :
; A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee |
g -, .
called for them the other day after the article in the paper, |:
~< I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and |
+- they returned them Monday afternoon.
ie . - i
: 7 Q Do you know who examined those files? i
< r
2 1é ;
: A No, I don't. :
4 i ;
3 -* Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts |
aa the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? |
1A : . Lays :
ae A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits :
i
+f of so-called information.
{
i Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged
29 , . |
z +e narcotics traffic? |
2 20 A Recently it has been.
Z 21 Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office
z LE in Miami?
Jj ;
Pal - t
3 ae A Mr. Sturgis ‘has been told by the DCD office in Miami |
:
2 £4 to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the

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Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an

established contact?

A No manner.

Q Do they have any ~-- do they periodically seek to

collect information from Mr. Sturgis?
A

I can't speak to that but the records that we have

don't reflect.anything like that. Before they would contact

somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file

on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin

American Division before they did anything since we do hold
the file.
re] Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?

A A 201 file is a personnel file. it consists of any

information relating to an individual appearing in the press

as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.
Q Personnel or personality file?

A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.

Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection

or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?

well, ZI will say this. Obviously, they do know

A
each other. They have to know each other from their days
in Cuba.

9
pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?

s £ recall, we employed Martinez around 196i,

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32275454 Page 17

Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-

SEVREI , 16

i * } I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a
5 ‘ .
z ° | boat captain eventualiy. And he did participate in infiltrations
: ° | and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, |
; + | Sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in

° any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever

t

é ' do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that belongs

? to the Agency.

8 | Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain

2 | a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting

i

ie] together his own crew?

7 ' A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a |
: 12 | Case Officer operating either out cf the -- probably out of’
< i . '
: is i the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have
3 le) some people in the Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receive

LE] his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. I>

8 | Q Sa it. is likely that he could have brought Sturgis

iv along on any of these operations? ‘ |

Lé A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was. |
3 =9 trying. to think oz, Chief of Staticn, John Dimmer. |
: 29 | Q And that would be.for a period of time between
i £1 i Shackley and Henze? |
z | !
; 22 | A Yes. |
: 22 | 9) 1964 to 1966?
: 24 A Something like that.
: 25 i Q Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the

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activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during

your -- and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during

your 9-year tenure with those groups.

A

Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board

intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary

activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about

the breadth of the thing.

2
A

Q

Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?

Right.

Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary

operations. ‘Were these operations run out of southern

<

_ Florida?
A. Right.
9 And in particular out of the Miami Station?
A Yes.
2 Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of

the country that participated in these activities?

A

Not to my knowledge. |

Were there any southern harbors other than Miami

that were used in these activities?

I said

Q

Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As

, we did have a Key West base.

Nere there any other bases in that area of the

country that were utilized in these operations?

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A Well, not that I would call a base. We did have

training facilities for the UDT teams.

Q What is a UDT team?
A Underwater demolition.
Q Where were those bases lacated?

i frankly don't know. They were down along the Kevs,

et

along that long peninsula going down there. There were a

number of sites. I really can't recall them.

Q Were there any other sites within the United States

in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people

carticipating in these activities?

A “Not ta my knowledge.

Q Where were these people trained?

A What do you mean?

Q Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.
A We trained them at these places we had in the Keys.

Now, there also ~-- some of them were brought up here and traine

at the Domestic Training Station.

2 Where is that located?

A That is down in Virginie.

2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these
raids? .

A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to

understand at this time that we hac a great many contract

independent contractors and this type of thing.

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5 E Cc R ET Ge rald Fo rd Library

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: Gerald Ford Library

19
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+ ' Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was }
& 2; ; . . : .
% i conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another
i 5!
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7 a Q DDO?
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Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,
7 aca oa ;
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8 . : . . . ‘ : - 5
. Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special i
ar Operations. Group, is that correct?
is A Nell, supervised, ves, and I would think that probabliy
++ some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic |
1
1
: fe Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but I
s .
z Le would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would
3 we probably starf the training facility with their people who have
26 the expertise in paramilitary operations. |
. f
t
16 9 Now, were the people that were being trained at
a° these facilities basically Cuban refugees?
LE A Yes. i
2 19 9) And at the outset = take it not many of those people
S ~ |
ES j
2 20 were American citizens?
>
2 ei A No. :
3 £e 2 Or had become American citizens. I
3 . . ; i
~ 23 A I would assume a great many have.
as t
3 24 - Q By .this time.
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Q At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi

in Miami? Do you have any idea?
A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is
-~ I was trying to think. I would say up towards a

miiitary people.
9 You spoke about caramilitary operations and covert
action. How do you distinguish between those two categories

of activities?

Pan

3 Well, actually. one can fall into the other. The

paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days
we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was
media placement. We had a number of operations at ~-- legal-

type cperations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel

seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he-had a

Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in

the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings |

that. were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned
in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them
because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was

-- they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was

forced to auction them in: Toronto, Canada.

We ran legal operations, got the owners and had them
hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing.

He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle them

in Evrope and up in Canada. Ne ran opposition against that

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a i 2 These were what you considered to be covert operationB?
3 | |
5 “4 A Yes, covert action. |
3 ‘ ;
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9 Now, this is what you were referring to, legal- !
6, H
type operations?
~ A Yes.
Fo ;
; 9) You used legal process to harass Castro.
oo A Yes. ;
yo ) What other types of harassment activities did you :
r :
29 "yun that would fall under this covert action category?
Ti :
7a A Well -- i
TT
: “a ne) Would economic warfare be ~- ‘
< :
2 _ ; ; . .
: +e A That was sort of something separate unto itself,
3 a4 This was -- the economic wartare aspect of this thing was a
_ . Loe = : = . . i
~~ decision of the Special Group to enrorce an economic blockade.
+6 ) what special group is that? :
l
i” A Tt is now called the Forty Committee.
ic: Q Is that 302 Committee?
2 22° A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all,
2 oa |
3 29, it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then
= :
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E 7
3 221 shere and now it is the Forty Committee.
a a i
a a ;
< £5 4 Q All right. We will return to that a little bit
2 £4. later, put what other types of harassment were you running i
3 25 i ai g _
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HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 23

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2
3 1 4
$ 4 A This is what I was trying to think of.
= 54
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a i Q ~~ that would be considered covert action?
2 _ i
é | ; _
2 i A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement,
F A 4
, Media placement. ft has been so long ago I really don't
' remember. I know we had a number of things going against him.
a
~ ye used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some
7 3 . , ;
i extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,
particularly when they were countries that we had treaties
1 wkth, NATO countries, Canada, this type of thing. ;
Q Let's taik about each of those in turn. You said
Lili 7 _. -_ - oa :
i you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you
af * :
12 || -
3 | veterring to? |
« y !
4 13 | . ; a: :
: ar A Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we
5 “3 vere the catalyst in this wnole thing and we had the leqal
““"  aetivities, the legal -- well, f don't know how you would
i :
16 Il ; . .
~' phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control |
i :
yt . . ; : ws . i
~' | regulations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the
te Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of
‘|
3 19 Commerce, the Export Control people.
fod if
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e 20 I. guess as vou are aware, Cuban industry was totally
= i| .
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5 el | U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of
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d | i
3 at i -to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where
g 24 |. we would find this out througn all-source intelligence, we

|
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SECRET 23

executives of these American companies and ask them to tell

their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts

and the other things that Castro might need. We had the

Department of Commerce -~- we identified 600 of the major U.S.

companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.
We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600
manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying
any spare parts tothe Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated
effort to really isolate them.

Q All right. And that is what you were referring to

as moral suasion?

A Yes.

2 Anything else in that category?

A Not really. None that I can think of.

2) Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign
companies?

A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,

the point.-in

to*stop that sale. The British Government turned us down

flat.
2 Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of
supply?
a

program. If there was a single source of supply for a

particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans

Photocopy from
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case being the Leyland buses. We pulled all stops

A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive ourchasing
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g 2
& 1 Q Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic
2 i A Yes.
Q -~ domestic market?
c ;
A No. It would be re-sold abroad.
; ;
Q In all cases?
7 ; a es ,
; A The cases that I was associated with, it was all
, !
sold abroad.
9 |
2 What kind of purchases were made? :
Lo a
A Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased |
Ll.
> gome Bright Stock in Antwerp.
5 LE
3 2 What?
‘4
4 1é . F
3 A Bright Stock.
° _ ) What is that? |
_ A fleavy, heavy oii, and since Cuba -~ 85 percent of
Vea . .
+e her energy comes from oil, this was considered ‘a critical |
at . ; oa ;
commodity. Bright Stock can be -~ oh, it is almost like tar, |
an
i melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this
i
19 . ; a .
3 _ type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So
x ac: we had an oil firm purchase this Bright Stock froma dealer for
5 Ra _ which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Steck was eventually
= Re solid in Africa.
3 ee 3 “Do you know of any sales of such materials that
5 ae were made within the United States? Resales, I should say.
° ze A No.

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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 26

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3 1: :
¢ F Q In addition to preemptive buying were there anv
o vt
a 24 ,
a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of
2 it H
cd 34
2 | supply to Cuba?
a A Well, we did provide through third country agents
who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce
7 Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had :
7 ;
"replacement parts manufactured that were substandard. !
i
Bs . - ; ; |
3 9 And vou nad them sold through foreign companies? i
. A Well, we had our agents. get the Cuban orders ail
Low. a 3 : ans ey ian mei
. over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of ‘fact,
“~' the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des.
12
3 “<“ "and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this. H
< a |
: 13 1
a Q Mr. Dillon?
3 a a No. He was Secretary of the Treasury.
7 Q But -- i
i
“o : A But vou must remember that these American -- i
a
~! Q Mr. Connors? \
a A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,
2 13 well, their places were nationalized and they were only too |
2 t |
7 a {
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¥ ““ happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona
2 F i
5 oe “ fide business. These things were transshipped through two :
3 oo i ae
5 ze | or three countries, finally wound up in Havana.
F :
“ ae - sg i
5 en 9) You referred to some extra~legal activities.
i | | :
2 “st A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what |
= on | . . i
7 £5 | think -- I remember this was on one of

| we did. ~ just can't
|
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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 27

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: - our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was
; ° on one of our activities. but I just can't remember what the
: - extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know
° : it was one of the parts of the program. |
; 1p) This was illegai activities? Is that what you are
° referring to?
; A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they
° weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were in a .
° gray area some place.
te —— Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international |
x= law, the laws of the United States? ;
3 aan A> I would have te go back and review the thing. I |
: we really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.
; is Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files? |
i
== A ‘I would think probably. down in the Records Center some
ue place. . !
a" . 9 Would it be cossible to obtain that material some
is time during the lunch hour? ;
3 2 A No. re is forty miles away. |
: ec Q Well, is there some place in the building where
: et you could refresh your. memory? :
: ze A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped.
J : . ‘
: ee This is talking 11 years ago, 12 years ago. All that material
: 4 has been retired. |
7 Es Q What category of activity would we be talking about |

r :
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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 28 \

DSEURE! |

- when we refer to extra-legal activities?

nO

A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't

CH

think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one |

Phone {Area 202) 644-6000

: parts of the program that we were involved in.

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rey)

tell me what that is.

2

Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to

cp

come back to that.

ive)

A All right.

a ane) Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal
“= activities that were run against Castro? oe |
3 Le : A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable are |
: te probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran |

a the economic. progran.
|
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Well, these are activities that were run in conneetion

Ow

Q

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i
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with the economic program? |
|
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_ A Yes.

<5 . oo, ; i
ae Q We talked about media placement during this nine-
a : t
-? year period.. To what are. you referring when you refer to
BN media placement? .
ma > . .
oa A Well, stories or news items that pernaps our
an! . . ~ :

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3 se !
one and magazines throughout the world. 4

as QO Would this aiso include broadcasts over radio

SPU inst Sirccs,
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A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.

Q Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines

published within the United States?

A Not to my knowledge, no.

Q These were essentially foreign publications?

A Yes.

Q Were any of them published in the Cuban community —

in Miami?
A No. The intent was to get world. opinion against |

Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.

Q “what about the.radio broadcasts? How were those
handled?
A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?

Q Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations

were involved. Was there more than one radio station?

We only had the one radio station but we did

contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.

Q For broadcasts to what areas?

A For broadcasts to Havana.

9 And the station in New York, was that received also

-- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United

States?

A I have no idea. I don’t know whether they used a

particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it

on short-wave or what they did.
A : ; Photocopy from

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232275454 Page 30

SECREI 39

e
: * Q But the intention was to reach Cuba.
i 2 A Reach Cuba.
: “ f Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to
i as Swan. Were there others?
° A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
6 . . . on : . .
Miami. =I think there was one -~ yes, there was one in Miami,
? I think, and’ one down in Key West that they used.
8 : Q Where was Radio Swan located?
9 A On Swan Island.
ic Q Where is Swan Island?
oe A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.
3 1é Q As far as you can recall, were there any other
F ;
: 1s radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
5 is broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
28 A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
16° I recall right now.
aa Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups
is affiliated with the Agency *o raise money from the American
3 19 public to support those’ propaganda activities?
: 20 A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of
: al thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.
; 22 " Q Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were
4
: 23 run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?
po Ba A Oh, yes.
5 2s ; 9 Was anything of that nature done in connection with

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: Cuban propaganda?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q And that would include both the publications and the |
: radio?
|
A Right. |
2 Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of

i. the s

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that,

some

this

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32275454

moment
economic activities th

A Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the

regime,

| worked very closely with the
saying that he had such a voor crop and this type of thing and

lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any

place.

|
|
I
| New Yo
i
|
}

ts. Could you describe for me briefly the type of

that were conducted against Castro?

his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We

Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in

tate Department and, well, for instance, in those days, I

it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumred from

about &@ penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like

i

|
and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -~ Fidel kept

|

we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop because|

of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihe

cane iike mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,

type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was

He had no storage facilities and put it any place he |

could.

So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in |
rk, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a |

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Page 32

ad en os TREE a 31

3 ;
3 + : . O°
3 "veal tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.
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a “ It was this type of thing that obviously he was
3 ‘I
5 “ : trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any |
7 . money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we aian'tl
-” : : |
fe) . . . e |
want him to get the exchange, So it was those types of ;
; activities.
7 . . :
Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. i
8 7 ; gg -
companies enlisted in that effort? i
3 :
A Oh, ves.
-* 2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and
*+ businessmen? i
a :
i “~~ A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great
< . i
$ aad many ~- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the
3 “= American community, by American bankers, and obviously they
~e lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the :
; i
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i
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+E was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.
. q
5 i? QO What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain from
2 20 these businessmen? :
z zl A Well, we simply talked with them about why ~- you
3 Be © know, the market conditions. were, why the price was rising, if
Z re . we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would
3 mo + - . .
z «4 - happen to the market orice. This type of thing. !
3 . .
+ £3 Q They were used as consultants,basically.

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organized

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‘They were used as consultants, basically, yes.
Yr, ¥

We have spoken about the investment American pusiness|

a. Did it ever come to your attention that American

Aa

crime --

NO.
-- had considerable investment in Cuba?

No., Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in

I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.
|

The casinos were run --

I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force

during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this

type cf thing.

“Ty
we

A

Q

A

Q

the support or assistance of any crime figures

whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the

A

Q

Drew

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I understand that. It was fairly well known.

Tb was a criminal. element.

The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana.

Right.
Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist

in any manner

Cuban regime?

No.

Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?

Oh, yes.

When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?

i
. |
Well, I guess it was ~~ it seems to me it was either

Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number

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32275454 Page 34

SECKET 33

2 i
3 :
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& + of years.ago.
a f
gy 2 | _, a, .
2g | Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's
a J
q i
< aod
° | name?
3 2
_ a A Yes, as I recall.
; | |
“ Q is that also true of Sam Giancana?
an A No. I have heard chat name but I don't know where. —
H
nr ua .
‘ : Q In:connection with -=- |
S 4 A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
4 !
care 2 In connection with the casinoS or -- i
i
~ 3 |
lt A No. my
| | | |
an Q ~~ gambling interests in Cuba?
7 2
2 te ; A No.
2 ‘
2 i :
; : 9 You know of. no instance in which organized crime
t
3 i+ ¢igures were used as consultants by the Agency?
am: A Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge |
+5 F of that whatsoever. |
a ) Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures |
ic of that type -~ |
a |
a 12 A No.
fol - i
i= ft i
5 4 - i
3 ec | Q ~- who were interested in getting back into cuba?
3 4 A No. 1
2 4 i
3 22 | 2 We were talking about economic warfare. We have
us ‘
a) ane . ; H
3 eo) talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other
5 ; |
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2 oes |
* 25 i Cuba? . |
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SECRET 7

2 i
8 Ro: . _ ; ; |
3 fe A Well, we used all-source information to find out what!
” :
rae oy gents |
& | his commercial dealings were. When we would see -~ well, for |
3 il i
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q oor, ; : . . . . ;
3 ‘ instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a. source owned |
8
a 4° | . ; a . . _ |
by the General’ Services Administration, finally got back into.
‘
- production and nickel, of course, and still is -- was in short
E et. neg _ oss tae .
supply. We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was
7 . .- ; . . .
buving almost:;the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this
ying ; Ns
French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to
~ : , i
we . .~ . . . . :
. 2 the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Centrol
a people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |!
H :
+-"  Je-Nickel exports coming into‘the United States? So they looked
3 St ; :
:
l2a . . . |
: “< into the thing and indeed they did. i
q :
2 a Q Who owned the mine?
P a ; i
3 ae A The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it
-"° "over.
|
~2 Q I see.
+" ~A General Services. Administration. And it was leased t
te out for operation. But the ownership rested with the
19 .
2 ae Government. {
3 :
3 eC . So the Treasury simply made the French provide a
S fs
3 2... certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they
c ‘
= Hi {
z 221 export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives |
ul to . i
a a . - . . :
z £5 and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless
3 £4; steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply
5 |
* 25} ~- Treasury simply said you can‘t import any more into this ‘

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country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter
of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in
New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it
around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel
found other sources and export privileges to the United States
were restored, |

You know, it is -- you just -- any time you raise
or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that
simple.

Q Were there any other instances that you can recall
of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of
American business firms?

A I know we were in touch with a great many American
business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could..

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)

BY MR, MANFREDI:

Q When we broke for a moment we were discussing other _
instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of America
business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of
any other such instances?

A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having.an awful time
with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats, were
powered: with}\Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg

people and told them -- asked them to cooperate with us,which

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they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's
representatives around the world if they got any orders from
the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.
We did the same thing with --

Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg
compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?

A No.

Q Were they compensated for the loss of business
involved in that activity?

A No. No.

Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from
other companies.

A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.

Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in

that manner?

A No. Not a one.
~ Q Were there any legal sanctions threatened against an
companies?
A No. No.
Q Were there any sanctions. that could have been brought

to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with
Cuba?
A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.

Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this country

“anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the

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: “ i Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause
: ® | in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --
: ° | foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with
6 :
° 4 | the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated country.
° And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried |
6 | , ; |
"| to twist their arm.
? Q Other than insuring that these companies refused
6 to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were
9 | legally constrained from doing, what other types of support did
10 | you receive from American business?
|| A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would
2 ie receive correspondence, particularly, say, from ~- well, they
<
< is received it from Cuba asking for publications and this type
: i4 of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing
+9 to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in
16 some instances they might call me and I would just give them
iv | a Post office box to send the correspondence to.
18 | Q- Any other types of support solicited or received by
3 i9 the Agency from American business?
: 20 A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one
3 21 . firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know
: 28 how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of
wl
: £5 | fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,
z 24 | that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the
3 25 | government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but
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io] .
g :
3 1:
z ' outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera-
a 2;
a | tdon. There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.
3 . | .
eS oy : : :
2 i Q Did you identify yourself as CIA --
2 i
z 4
A Yes. }
5 . . . .
Q ~- in dealings with these companies?
“ A Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even
?
the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all. .
8 i ; : _ .
i . Q Let's taik about paramilitary operations. We started
9 ft
“= but didn't really discuss that in any depth.
1
10! ; ; _ ;
i What kind of paramilitary operations were run
ili ; ;
1 against Cuba by the CIA? ; |
if
; 12 | a ,
3 FI A Maritime operations.
: 12 | |
ar Q Is that the extent of it?
z a!
3 a A That is the extent of it.
25 I Q Were there any aerial operations?
16 | A Not to my knowledge.
x7 ~Q Leaflet drops?
2
te 4 A No.
3 | Q Bombing?
2 if
9 I
“ Hl
¢ 20 | A No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as
|
< ‘| i
3 ey I am concerned that is the only aerial activity. © |
7 ate | Q That was run by another directorate, wasn't it? |
wv anc ii H
3 £3 | A Yes. i
8 i:
a l |
g 24 Q Aerial photography, and so forth.
$ 25 A Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to
H

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c
3 .
g 1
g be requested and that is about it.
a 2: .
a Q And those were run out of the United States?
& 5
g i A Oh, yes.
F 4 3 ,
7 Q . Can you think of anything, any other type of para-
5!
“ military activity other than maritime operations. }
6:
A No. I really can't, no.
7:
. | Q Am I correct that those operations were manned
8
: by CIA contract employees?
9 |
i A Right.
~ il
Ley Q WhiiGh would include Cuban refugees.
iW ]
14 Oo
it ; A Right.
4 12 jj et ;
5 HI Q. And some:CIA officers?
é i
4 H a i
‘ 1S A Right.
3 14} Q Any other branches of the ‘services, Armed Services,
i dnvolved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs. |
i A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to remember
H that: probably down at our Domestic Training Station we
; probably have people on-detail from other -~ from the military
| |
g 19 i branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think
¢ st
E |
g 20 | that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also
é i
3 el | had people detailed into the Agency.
3 50 | .
= ae : Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime
Wl
g 25 i operations, I take it, was conducted in part within.the
a i
z 24 United States and in part outside of the United States. Is
. 25 | that correct? . 7
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A I would think. probably the major portion of it was
conducted within the United States.

Q ‘The Keys would be considered within the United
States.

A oh, yes.

Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted
outside the United States?

A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not
to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall
but I don't think that -- I think ail the training was done
domestically.

Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within
this category of maritime operations?

A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating

agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage

- raids. That is about the extent of it.

- Q Now, when did. these .operations commence? Was it

shortly after the Bay of. Pigs?

A I would -- I think these operations were probably

at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,

1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December

1968, something like that.

|

Q Why was the program terminated? |
A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provia-
ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,
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it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
getting wrapped up. We were ~-- we just felt that the return
wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.

Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up.

A Yes.

Q ° What do you mean by that?

A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify
him and capture him.

Q These various types of paramilitary operations that
were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the
Forty Committee? ~

A Every operation received a specific approval from

the Forty Committee.

Q In advance?
A In advance.
Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for

initiating such an operation?

A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.
or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache:

Q You are referring to a cache of arms.

A A: cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,
whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have
one of these operations and the request would go from here
over to the,’ I guess to the White House and then the Forty

Committee at its weekly meeting -~ they used to meet very

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frequently -~ they would either approve the operation or say
no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because
the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper
phase for communications and this type of thing. And these
things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were
exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military

agency that had: any involvement whatsoever;..and the entire

thing was coordinated.

Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations

that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?

A No.

Q What kind of volume of operations are. we talking
about?

A You are not talking about a very big volume of

operations because of the planning that had to go into these
things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing

they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.

Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having
run 300 operations.

A I have seen that.

Q Is that inaccurate?

A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He

may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-

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a
: 1 | tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one
z 2 | of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother
: ° | ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in: to
8
a 4 | see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore
5 tefore you go. So he may have considered that all these train-
6 | ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-
7 pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.
8 Q Now, from what specific locations were these
9 operations launched?
10 A They were mostly launched from the: Keys.
ii . Te Any other locations?
z le A Not to my knowledge.
<
; 16 Q Now, would you describe for me the kind of hit and |
9
: 14 | run sabotage operations that were conducted?
15 A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against
16 the Texaco refinery.
1? _Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?
H
18 A What used to be the Texaco refinery.
3 19 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
; £0 5 (Discussion off the record.)
E 21 | THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
: 22 | went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.
wl
: 25 We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this
: £4 type of thing to do the most effective damage, This was run. It
: 25 | was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was

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SECRET 44

a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as
much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out
because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type
of operation that we did.

As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn
some cane fields. Reaily, the classical operations that we

did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and

exfiltrations.

Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?

A Not to my knowledge.

Q Was it impractical to use the base there for --

A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that

I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him
back. He wouldn't walk.

MR. MANFREDI : Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out
of:the Keys other than what you have just described?

A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage
kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained
sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down
crank cases. Things of this nature.

One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage

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from a base in the United States?

SECRET s

all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our
own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We
contracted with an American firm for that. And we shipped
it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.
The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the
automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking
down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have
everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive
equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because
i
Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going ta
extend the credit. |

The railroad system was in total disaster. The

Seviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus

the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment

because they were used to good American equipment. And these
were principal targets that we were trying to get to.
_ Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of

any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run

A No.

, Q I know there has been some paramilitary training
in the United States.

A _Oh, yes.

Q In connection with other operations.
A Oh, sure.

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2°
g 1 tage: .
¢ Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that
q 2 |
a were actually run out of the United States?
* ° A No.
5
* a Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique
54, .
| Situation.
6 | A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.
if
| .
7 | Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in
8 | Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as
9 | the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.
|
16 A That is right.
it Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
z le A Well, we had--~ honestly, everything from a canoe
¢
: 1s up. to three to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers,
g it
3 14 | rubber boats. We had a number of craft in, say, the 27 to
25 45 foot. length. And they looked like real tubs. They were
16 painted-and they looked like they wouldn't even float but
17 they had-the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any-
18} thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under~
2 19 water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy.
°
G 20. Q -. Did these craft operate under non-official cover
Cc
8 21 in the Miami area?
2 22 A Yes.
ra) : .
< 25 | Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one
: .
8 24] firm?
5 .
+ 25 | A No. Variety.
i ;
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Q Fishing companies?

A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine
supply. In all, I think during the period that the station
and these other entities were under’ commercial cover, or non-
official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.

Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any
legitimate commercial activities?

A Not to my knowledge, no.

Q _ None of them -- were any of them in competition with
firms in that area?

A These are probably what we would call devised
facilities. They were probably registered with the State of
Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one
was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of
existence and started up a new one.

Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running
these operations?

A Well, he was down ~~ this is one of the reasons, as
I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.
Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He
came back ~-- he might come back once a manth, or something
like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks

if he got some time off.
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|
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Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were

actually stationed full-time in the Keys.

| A Oh, yes. Oh, sure.

; Q Were there any operations run out of the United
States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of

{ sugar or anything of that sort?

A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind.

i

|

{

| Puerto Rican thing?

Would you describe that for me?

' A Well, this is, I guess you-could term it a target of

opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar
; to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to

it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or

something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.

In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
drydock or wherever it was, they..had. ta remove the sugar and
put it in the. warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came

up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -- there was

put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the
individual, and some of this was done. And then when it

leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar

firm buy it back from the Soviets. ! Photocopy from
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32275454 Page 50

A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the

}


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| + were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?

those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.

SECRET 19

Q Bought it back from the Soviets?
A Yes.
MR. MANFREDI: oft the record.
(Discussion ofE the record.)
MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record.
BY MR. MANFREDI:

?

Q Are there any other operations in which crops were

A No. No.
Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? |
A In Cuban products? |
Q Yes. |

[
A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in

The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total .
chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have

anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.
i
|

There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around

with this big plan -~ of course, there were a number of

| experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.

I forget -- several other European and American companies that

had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—

32275454

| ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.

Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to

Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it

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on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too

i high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in

Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin
and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type
of thing. So he was helping us all along the line and

this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this
: type of. thing.

: : But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we

: didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade

' and cut off his sources of supply.

: Q When was the Miami Station established?

: A As a station?
Q Yes.
A I think in September 1961. |
Q And that was several years before you became involved

|
{
i
4
; in Cuban matters? |
LA Yes.

|

|

Q Do you know of any other facilities of that nature

i within the United States, Agency facilities?

A You mean, targeted against the opposition?

Q ves.

i A A station as such?

Q Yes.

A No. You have some communications facilities that
| you really call stations because here again, they are not

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directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of

overseas communications.

Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and

Office of Security officers, and so forth.

A Right.

Q But I am talking about actual stations. i
A Operating stations, no.

Q This is the only such station in the United States

as far as you know, is that correct?
A Right.
Q And was this station established to deal primarily

with Cuban activities?

A Yes.

. Q Cuban-related matters? |
A With Cuba, period. |
QO Did it have, when it was established, any other |

responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?

A Not to my knowledge.

Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities? |
j

A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other

countries in the Hemisphere,
Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
activities, what was the size or the number of personnel

attached to that Station?

A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a

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couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the

Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees,

independent contractors, probably another. 200 minimum. It was

obviously the largest installation we,had. I think at its

height it had over 500 people in it.

Q

A

Q

A

Full-time Agency people?
No, no.
Combination of contract and -~

And fuli-time, yes. A regular employee we call a st

employee.

Q
people?
A
Q
A
Q
Miami?

A

Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract

Yes.

Even though he was located down in the Keys?

Oh, yes.

And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
Physical facilities.

Well, they were located on the south campus of the

University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at

the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained

unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn

well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the

Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.

Q

A

Official cover?

No. Non-official. ‘ photocopy from

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y
| Q Non-official cover. What was the cover?
|

3 |
2 | A It was a commercial cover. It was called -~- the first
: ° one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a
7 4 | President and Vice President, normal corporate setup. i
i ;
° Q Engaging in any business?
6 A No. |
7 | Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,
6 | how long could a non-official cover last? |
9 | A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research |
10 activities. Funded -- it-is a giant mechanism when you put |
il one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,
2 12 | . €or. your: ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts.
2 H
; 13 | Q Yes, I understand.
& ' H
3 14) A So it was a research activity andthe only people that
|
| ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You :
16 | know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept
| any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
18 | type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And.out of
3 19 | this one.thing, of course, then we were running these innumera~-
: 20 | ble -other™ covers with different activities. The guard
2 21 | force, of course, were like -~ well, they wore uniforms, similar
2 : i
3 ee to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think |
uj
3 23 | that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the |
i 24 Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other
2

25 Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.

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Q And this particular Station, then, was under the
supervision of the group we have been discussing?

A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.

9 When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume
responsibilities for the Miami Station?

A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the

Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western

Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division.

Q Is there presently a Miami Station?

A Oh, yes.

Q And how large is it at the present time?
A Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the

Cuban Operations, I don't know how large it is at the present |

time because we are in one of these periods. where: we -are
reassigning people, -but I think by the end of this fiscal year
there’are going to be between 11 and 14 people.

Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions
were being performed by the Miami Station?

A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I
think I have lined them out at:one time ---collection of

positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this |

type of thing. Covert action.
Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in

the deposition?

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A Yes.
. Gerald Ford Library

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8 Ls .
g | Q Which of these activities, if any of them were i
s 2
a actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?
i Y
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2 | A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably
5 !
a |
|| counterintelligence.
5 I , |
i Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence |
6
| activities in the Miami area? |
il
7 i
| A Yes, sir.
8 | a ;
| Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- ©
|
9 | intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting |
}
i i
10 | ain that area or was conducting in the area at that time? |
11 | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I
3 te | recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent tha
a
13 | came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in witha }
x } |
< ~ H .
5 14 | number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep- |
16 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.
16 | The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there and.
1? we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration
18 and\ Naturalization Service cover. When the LEW people did the
3 is preliminary interrogation of these people they had to. fill
o {
u 20 | out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, biegraphic+
= el type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our-peopte who would.
s Re | look at the forms and based on previous experience or what
dl i
a ! .
3 25 | they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they
FA
é a4 might have some information of intelligence value, they would
. 26 reinterrogate them. /
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wi wRE i 56

3
: > It was in this manner that this gal came to our
z 2 | knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined
< ° | that obviously she was receiving messages: and she was
g Gj .
° * i sending messages, So along with the Bureau we put a surveillante
5 on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and
6 | indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock
i!
? or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found i
8 i it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that
9 ! was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved |
0) in. |
11 | Q Were there many activities of that type? |
3 12] A Not really. You have got to remember that the |
|
15 | Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large |
; La squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some- |
5 | thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of |"
16 | hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-
i
17 ‘tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from.-~—
18 in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
3 ig | which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting
: 20 | to Case Officers and they would report on things in the
= i !
: | community, of people they thought were suspect and this type
: ee | of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
: a and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved
: £4 | in CI activity.
: 25 | Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI
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known as Legal Attaches,

the same as our Station was,

MR.MANFREDI:

(Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of-

same day.)

Page 59

Yes, yes.

SECRET

to properly staff the thing?

You have got to remember, too, that a lot
of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section

of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is

from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a
relationship there that had gone over a period of years

between the Agency and the Bureau.

2 . ;
the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this

SECRET

obviously working out of the Embassy

and a lot of our Station officers

We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.

57

activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-

whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability

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AFTERNOON SESSION
Thereupon,
WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA
Activities, and having been first dulv sworn by the Notary

Public, was examined and testified as follows:

i

EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)

: BY MR. MANFREDI:

0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the
Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the

largest CIA station in the world?

overall contingency nlan that US Government had. Should Castro

|
ever be overthrown, these people would be the nucleus to go into

i
i
A ©6)UCOU The: «cLargest CIA station in the. world. —.
0. At its height?
| 7 |
i A Nothing comes anvplace close to it.
| |
0. I wonder if vou could describe brieflv for the recors |
A Well, the AMG?S were Cuban a Cuban intelligence
| organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
!
\
|
|
|

Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior.
| ‘6 Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
for Security Agency?
A. Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of

Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.

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0. And these people were Cuban exiles?

A, Cuhan exiles.

0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS?

A Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures

but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to --

0. Go ahead. ,

A Probablv closer to 159, something like that.

a. Now, would that i59 persons be included within the

three to 599 who made up the Miami Station? ; |

AY No.

Q That was over and ahove the personnel of the Miami
Station? |

A. Right.

O. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?

A Right. WE11, let me -- these people really were --

thev were being subsidized by the Agency. They were employed

bys vorcover:companies, the largest of which was called.Latin

American” Social. and Economic Research. Then we had another

smaller qroup that did the interrogating and they were under

vanothér cover, commercial -cover, -- I just don't recall what it

was, But these peop.e ostensibly were employees of these whollv

owned ‘proprietaries of the Aqencv. They were duly constituted,

incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing.
0. The salaries of these people, althouch paid indirectly

were vaid by the CIA?
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: A That is right.

0. And was training provided them bv the Agency?

0 Oh, ves.

| A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made

up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?

A Right.

: 0. When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring eo
: debriefings? |
1 —_ . |

A Iam referring to debriefings of newly arrived oxties |

; |
| time here had acquired new information. |
Q. How were those -- how and where were those debriefingg
conducted? |
A. Well, normally the debriefings were conducted at Opa |
i Loca.

0. That is the Air Base?

: A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the

reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in.

Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had
a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.

small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them
down, under controlled conditions, and debrief them without any
interference and this type of thing.

0 For how lonq a period did these debriefings ge on? ;

2

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3 1 i A You mean in terms of vears?
: 2 0. Yes.
: 3 A Well, I would think that I would probably say from
3 4 | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --
5 we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out |
6 and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut off
9 : about, I quess about 1970 or '7l1, in that timeframe --
8! 0, I see.
9 ; A -~ that stopped the flow of the refugees, so we just |
16 ' terminated that part of the activity.
li 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came
; 12! in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any othey
‘ = intelligence gathering functions -=
a
é 1e A No. . |
anil 0 In the community? ~
16 : A. Well, I can’t give vou a real ves or no-to that. I
1 : would suppose that there is an-outside possibility thev could
1s have been used to debrief: people within the: community, within
19 the Cuban community, but we had in the organization -- all these

people were Cuban with the exception: of we had what we call an
: On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime staff emplovee and he
had a couple of assistants; including a-secretarv. These people

were directly under his control. Though the organization as it

was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,

but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Office

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Of course, if these people went out and did something on
their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.

You can't -= you know what they are doing during their eight or

ten hours that they are going to work evervday but once they
leave, we don‘t know what they are up to.

0. Did they have CIA credentials?

A, No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this
commercial cover.

0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these |
people other than in their duties ~~ in their debriefing
capacity, I should sav? ;
A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a
| standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence
interest or a battle, vou know, anvthing -= economic questions,

morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -~ when.

these people were cebriefed and the. debriefer wrote up the

report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over. to the Station.

if the debriefing report contained something of positive i
intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot

down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be

recontacted and asked specific. questions.

0. Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this

smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area?

A This was their prime purpose,
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3 1 0. How large was that particular group?
¢ i
2 2 A. Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,|
: S | I think there were about five debriefers with the support people
E 4 which would be secretaries, translators, strictly administrative
5 types. = don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15
6 J in that croup, if there were that many.
% MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
3 | 7 (Off the record discussion)
9 BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
16 | 0. Before we move on to further. discussion of the AMOTS |
1 could. you briefly describe for.mé what role the CIA plays in |
, 12 | resettling Cuban emigres?
2 | | .
7 13 A CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emiqres. |
: wa! 0. What Agency is charged with that responsibility? |
15 A Health, Education and Welfare.
ul 0, Does CIA nlav any role in that vorocess?
1 A We may assist if we are. asked but the idea of the wholle
13 airlift was having relatives here. for somebodv to claim you when
. 19 you came in so you wouldn't become a ward of the State of the |
3 20 i Government, and normally when these refuqees came in, thev were
J ot
: Pal : processed through the Center and then they had a place down on
4 29 | Biscavne Boulevard thev called. Freedom House and this was, of
i
: 23 course, all run by HEW, and they -~- if need be and they had to
j 24 stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and
2 25 |

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cover. .
0. . Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged |
in?
A. WE11, the larger group was engaged in the collection

SECKEE 64

Then as soon as they could, of course, they: would move ene
to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the
relatives were, this type of thing, and we had: nothing to do

with that whatsoever.

0, Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the

two droups, what was the name of that group again?

A SASER, Latin American Social and Economic Research.
0. We can call them LASER for short?
A. Really, they are both -- the onlv reason we separated |

5
:

the two groups was for security because we had one group housed
over here and the smaller group was over here. Obviously we i

. . . !
couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so |

that is why we took the smaller establishment to preserve some

of intelligence. They compiled dossiers on the principals

inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every

refugee that came through the reception center. They provided -

they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a

monthly newsletter based on the information thev collected.
The information these people collected as opposed to the
information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That

came from -- all the information thev had came from human sources

|
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5 | or overt publications. We subscribed -- well, the proprietary
fs) {
2 lj ;
g | subscribed to a number, a great many newspapers, periodicals,
a |
a 2 | ;
s | Spanish language type things.
z 5 |;
2 | 0. Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,
i 4 |
i weren't they?
5 |
| A I don’t know if you could call it clandestine. What
6} . . :
# did you have in mind?
> | .
| 0. Well, would thev run agents in the community?
8 .
| A Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban
3 |
t
i| community, yes.
10 | . ; ; . . ; |
| 0. And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?
ll.
i A. WEL1, I call that human resources.
z 12" 0. All right. Where are these files now? |
:
%,
- tS | A. They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of
Z aa .
3 14 them were really destroved. It got to be rather comic. We
i .
*° | went down there several years ago just looking through the files
16 | to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great |
tv information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a
He | gad who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won
I
2 19} 4 swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those
& | .
g 20 | files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't
: 21 | have any pertinancy at all.
2 Be | 0. How are the files organized? You indicated before tha
Z £5 lenere is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?
3 24 | A, Right.
= £5 0, Are there. soft cover files as well?

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A, Yes,
Q. For each Cuban refugee?
AL No. Not for each Cuban refugee. I think, as I

recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,
we had I quess the manilla files, probably went into the tens.
of thousands, I would think.

0. Now, is there any wav to determine from those files

which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens?

A No way.

Q. Has there been anv effort to make such a determina-
tion?

A. We made an effort at one time but this ~~ you can

become nationalized out in California and your record of
nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for
two years. That is how far thev are behind.

0. So I take it -~

A, So there is no central index vou can go to. I mean,

there is a central index you can go to but it.is.not current.

0. I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the

CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langley on Cubans who
are now American citizens?

A. Absolutely true.

0. Now, are any of those files likely to contain
derogatory information about the individuals. involved?

A, Well, no. One of the things these people do, of

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SECRET 67
course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from

anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a

Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people

as possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask

that all the information on that individual be assembled so that

we could do a complete target study -- habits, vou know, i
everything right down the line. In case of some of the more
important ones, of course, we had nsvchological studies prepared
where we had enough information. But this is one of the things |
these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on the
first mate of the == one of the Cuban ships, then they would
start looking through the papers or anything else to come up
with anything they could on what the guy's current activities
are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.

Q Well, the .AAMOTS were going to be the intelligence
service of Cuba?

A. Right.

0 And they obviousiv were going to perform some function
in addition to recruitment of agents?

A. Right.

0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence,
gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the
traditional skills, is that correct? i

A. - That is about right. |

0 So I trust that they had files that were amassed for

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purposes other than recruitment?

3 1
|
g 9 A. Well ~-
ct
E 3 | Q. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these
E 4 || files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible
Jj
|
5 | internal security problem?
6 | A. No. No. Thev didn't keep those types of files. We
!
7 | would simply task them with through your sources what do you
8 | have on so and so. Thev would not be told the reason why we
9 wanted the information on anvbodv.

0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several

| | | |
SECRET  ceraid Ford Library |

i
10 |
11 million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
12 | make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
a a
< :
2 13 | those files?
2 A Well, that is right. |
3 14 | -
15 | 0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ask
z ;
| .
16 | vou this. I trust that there is the possibility that some of |,
19 7 \
i
19 these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga4
| tory information? |
1a || “Or”
A. I would assume so.
o 19 |
2 :
8 20 | 0. And that so much of them may -- some of the subjects
2
: 21 | of those files may now be American citizens?
3 A Right.
5 93 Qa And finally I take it that no effort has been made to
5 2A studv that particular situation?
3 4
3 95 | A. WELL, we did make an effort to do it at one time. i
7 | . , |

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SECRET 69

You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,
whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their
names turn up on manrfests and this type of thing. Well, these
are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards

| were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
H

at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
what the machine svstem had to see if there was updated informa-
tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had

become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So --:

Excuse me, off the record.

(Off the record discussion)
MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.

BY MR. MANFREDI:

Twant to straighten out confusion in my own mind

where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are

presently here in Washington?

The cards and what is left of the files.
That is the soft cover files?

Yes.

And <=

I assume they are either here or down at the

| Records Center.

32275454

0.
A.

0.

|
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| A,
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And where is the computer svstem?
You mean our machine system? We have --
The machine here that you tried to match up with the
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é 1 | information on the cards?
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= D) | A. Right down on the third floor,
: 3 0. That is not the hvdro svstem?
2 4 A. Oh, no, no. |
i
Ht . . 7 |
5 i 0 This is a separate --
| |
6 A This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division
5 | uses this particular system. i
8 0, What kind of records -- cetrike that.
9 | The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev? |
| |
10 | A No.
11 n T thought they were going out in June. |
12 A Well, okav. Thev are on the hooks until June.
3 | |
3 0 I see.
2 13 | ° See !
< 14 A, But they have all been let go. They were let go =~ |
: | :
_ | they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to “
o find a joh.
i6 | 9 3
7 ‘a ‘Do they have any facilities, phvsical facilities, in
f 1
Miami at this time?
18
| A, no.
- 19 7
4 {
5 20 | 0. So thére are no records in Miami?
O a
G
§ 2 A. No. No. We brouqht all those records back here.
2 20 | 0. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities
= BBY
4 23 | in the Miami community?
8 i ;
& A No. No,
z Ray
3 25 | 0 Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups?
t v
|
i}

| Phot f
| SEC RET Gerald Ford Library

HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 72

pose SE.KE! ra

3 1 ! A Hot to my knowledge,

¢ i

3 2 o What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that
a | t
Hl 3 was not doing debriefings?
3 ! A Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would

; . aye ; |
send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemisphere
. to train some of the local services in those countries. They

served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in |

!
!
'
|
{
!
|
listening posts where we had audio ~- |
1
i
|
|
|
1

0, Foreign listening posts?
10 | A. Oh, ves, foreign.
u| 0. Any domestic listening posts?
| 12| A No, no. |
a! 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people? |
” A. I would assume -- this I cannot answer because I reall
15 don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but -
16 : to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance
1 conducted by them. |
se “Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,
. it don't know where it could be. ,
é 20 | 0. What intelligence gathering activities did they
: 21 | conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
= - 4h . .
i 20 | A One.of the big problems we had was within that Cuban
4 og | community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
i og | Castro groups and this just: drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
: 26 | and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government
7 i
SECRET = crarrontuinny

HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 73

ad Fae EE “4

3 i agencies in Miami plus the State government enforcement agencie
- : up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around ~- the
g = | Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
E 4 | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they
5 ; started to tighten up.
6 I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing
" alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when
8 there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these
9 . militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked
ro by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, |
- this type of thing. |
4 0. These people were arrested? |
3 “e
7 la A Oh, ves,
2 |
& : 0. Prosecuted?
2 14
_ A. Not really,
7 0 Anv of them American citizens?
4
A Not to my knowledge. |
: 0. This would be Alpha 66 tvpe groups?
8
. 19 A I don't know whether this quy -~ well, you know, they
8 . are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don'
oO ce, :
: 2} : know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on
g 1
E 29 i so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.
‘ 95 | He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever
: 2A ; served any time or not I don't know. . I know he was convicted
: 95 but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. So
|
|

| 7 Photocop from
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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 74


= SECRET ”

3 1 I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went
$ 1
= 2 « to jaul or not.
8 i ,
a I . . ‘ . : . .
g 5 a Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
= if
E 4 . Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS
5 - engage in?
6. A Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence ~--
9 I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest
g . at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.
9 : Q Cubans were? |
i
io? A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well |
i
11 : on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
12 young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't
4 ;
2
a ii well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to i
& og |
5 ;
& 14 identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.
3 4
15 t 0 Was that done in cooperation with the. Bureau? ~
‘ A. With the Bureau, ves.
16 |
a , 0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
ae * in a better position to do it?
: A Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big
” 19
3 factor.
v .
: Q. And this was conducted through the AMOTS?
2
3
5 Hi A  ° Yes.
‘
u " Q How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
= : in’ the community?
2 24 .
5 | A WEl1, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I
¢ i :

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25 |
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HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 75

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3 22 |
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é |
2 24
3
3 25

| Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens

sy DEVKEL | |

would call a great. number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did

come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the

to it because, von know, vou just -- unless vou personally know
|

the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, you might as

well forget it. You have got too many other things to do.
;

i
{

0. What other positive intelligence gathering activities |

were they engaging in?

A, Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engaged in |

electronic intercept.

|

|
0. Where was that done? |
A Down in Florda, down in Homestead. |
0. This is Southeast of Homestead? |
A. Yes. |
0. What ere they intercepting? 7
A Well, originally they were set up to assist with the

commo. for the infiltration.

“As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made
available to intercept Cuban Communications, NSA‘ tasks’ them wit
the frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications
nets: they wanted covered, such as tthe border guards. Another
important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,
sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior

network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coverage}.

is. dictated by NSA.
Photocopy from

SEC RET ‘Gerald Ford Library

HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 76

Ho" | SELKE!

|

|

f
Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin reeves
ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently |
{

because the common interests, -- we have a common interest in

Phone (Ares 262) 544-6060

what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particulan

}
operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans
were doing, then we would task our people with that.

For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into
i

. t
Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then

there was absolute silence. So nobodv knew where the thing was.
But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the
H

boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when

came. back on-the-air. And this is the type of thing. As.

a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200

WARD & PAUL

Cuban: troops, 7 |

MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. -.

(Off the record discussion)
MR. MANFREDI: Let's ao back on the record,

i “BY MR. MANFREDI:
i :

0, Were the Communications: they: were intercepting

exclusively foreign communications?

20 j

A Exclusively foreign communications.
21

0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus
22 :

of which was the United States?
A, No.

0. These were basically Cuban Government ‘communicat3 >
unications?

SEC RET oy Photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library

"410 Fiest Street, SEL, Washington, D.C. 20003

|
;
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25 | |
| |

HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page ?7

Pouone (Area 202) 644-6000
tw

WARD & PAUL
bh
Los)

22

23

410 First Street, $.£., Washington, O.C. 20003

25

24

0

A

po) ATE oe | 76
Right.

On the Island?

Right.
Or between the Island and other locations?
Yes.

But not between the Island. and the United States?

j
{
|
No. Let's go off the record on that. . |

(Off the record discussion)

0,

BY MR. MANFREDI: |
i
|

intercept

where,

A.

0.

0.

in

To vour knowledge were the :AMOT. engaging in the

a

of any communications, either that facility or else-

the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?
No.
Of other communications?

No.

Is that their only imtercept facility?

(Nods affirmative)

Do you know of your own personal knowledge -=- strike

that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,

i

breakins or activities of thqt type other than what we have

discussed --

\

a

No sir.

== that were conducted bv the AMOTS?

Pd

(Off the record discussion}

HY 50955 Docld: 32275454

No sir. I want to qo off the record a minute,

Photocopy from

SECRET Gerald Ford Library

Page 78

pes

(e]

Phane {Area 202) 544-6000

an

& PAUL

WARG
Ww
>

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“i

19

200023

20

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22

S.E., Washington, 9.C.

410 First Strcet,

25

24 |

1
|
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SECRET 7

BY MR. MANFREDI:

0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS

has been prepared by one of your members.

A That is right.
0. What is his name?
A I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last

name. The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have

to get that for you.

0. What is the title of the study? |
|
!
i

series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The

A The title of the study -- it is part of the historical

AMOT Organization."

0 What is the historical series of the Miami Station?

A “It was done when: Paul Hennessey was down there. What
we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is set aside
what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things

the station might do or that might occur in the station personne

wise, this tvpe of thing, and.then these things are written.

Se

0 I see.

A. At intervening periods of time.

0. When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?

A think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68.

a It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?

A, Yes.

0 And purports to be a fairly complete history of the
|

SECRET : Photocopy from

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HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 79

SECKET is

i
i
3 L | activities of the AMOTS?
= |
= 2 A It starts back in 1959 when we first started using
oS
3 3 | this gent..
2 4 0. First started using what?
5 I A. First started using, I forget what his name was.
6 | ies I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi-
|
9 ties?
3 | A Yes,
H .
|
9 0. And you have a copy of that in your custody?
A Yes.
10
11 0. I would like to see that’ document. And we will try
. and obtain it through MNank Knoche's office.
5 78 |
<
: 13 | A. Okay. !
2 H . ;
g 14 | 0. Excuse me just for a minute.
|
15 \ (Off the record. discussion)
-s i . }
16 | MR. MANFREDI: On the record. i
7 BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would ~= let me ask vou |
1a | this. There have been some allegations in the press that
19 prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents
3 of the CIA.
3 20
: Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join
= el | :
= \
5 2 [ because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the
FS 2
4 Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing
= 23 :
é had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn
a 24
3 the examination over to him for whatever time he needs,
= 25
|

, ‘ Photoc fi
SEC RET ‘Gerald Ford Library

HY 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 80

a

ad en es BS Es

MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, “ceorge.

|
3 BY MR, OLSEN: |
“ zt 0 Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin- |
2 H
Z S 3 . ;
E ‘ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,
= 4 . |
by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your
5 |
contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
withing this country on bhehal= of the Agency?
7 .
A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff |
8 |
‘which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the
Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in |
1 . ; H
a variety of intelligence collection and operations.
~~ 9, Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?
12 |
3 A Mesmond Fitzgerald.
y 13 .
3 Qa And who was his immediate superior? i
< sat i
° _ ‘Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was |
““ Dick Helms. He was the DEP.
16 , -
Q Neputyv Director for Plans?
_ A Deptuty Nirector for Plans. i
. . i
a 0. What period of time are we talking about now? _
- 19 . . a
3 A. We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.
Z 20. MR, MANFREDI: Off the record.
: 21: .
= 2 (Off the record discussion)
3 22% : EN:
, ; BY MR. OLSEN:
4 i ;
6 RS Q So vou were not involved in this Special Activities

ATQ barst Street, &

A NO.
Photocopy from

SEC RET Gerald Ford Library

|
ee |
24 ! Group during the 1959 to "SL period? |
|

HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 61

~— om ou mu

a 1 Or the period leading up sco the Bav of Pigs?
é : |
= a, No. l
a |
§ a |
° i 0 And vou were not involved in this program at all during
2 ithe same time that ©. Howard Hunt was involved in it? H
. t
4:
A No.
5
Q, Do vou know what the vcosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in:
a :
connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the
9 .
: period of 1359 to 'S1?
Ay To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert

Action Start dealing in propaqanda.

0. Was this propaganda Girected to the Cuban people in
VW j
pane . i
this country?
Le
3 ~ A No. Cuban people abroad.
2 1z a _
2 Q And what-was his connection with the planning for the
é ..
3 its i. :
Bay of Pigs? :
_ A I would have to review the record to really answer :
1é |
that. I don't know.
ut . _ _
0. Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami
~““ area?
1s Se - |
A He commuted cuite a bit.
i‘ 20, . a . :
= 0. Between Washington and -=
z 2] i : :
Ey * , A Washington and Miami.
= 22 | 0 ~- and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early
. i
: Da
3 “ '§1?
3 .
z 244 . :
5 “ \ Right.
3 25 4 ; oo ; . ;
“oa i. Mr. Hunt bas stated in his interviews and in his

| SEC RET Photocopy from
Gerald Ford Library

\ _ _—

HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 62

cape tp Ni th Hie

published materials that he was the person who was in charge of

g
¢ 1
2 ~
= 9 | organizing a political unit among’ Cubans in this country which
2 jj :
ot Hf
3 4 : . . . : :
é = } would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall
z 4
z 4 where that was?
5 : AL That could be quite true.
6 a Nave vou reviewed, “Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
% files relating in anv wav so the Cuban operations and particu-
8 ‘ larly with reference to whether they reflect anv contacts
3 between the Aqency and Frank Sturgis?
a A Ces. .
as! ie Or Frank Fiorini?
ao: A There is no relationship.
: 1: 0, Is it vour testimony that the records and files of
; |
Z -. the Aqencyv reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
3 i
,- . Mature with Frank Sturgis?
VA A To my knowledge chat is true.
_ 0 I take it from that that vou are emphatic in your
a testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency?
. A. Extremely emphatic.
“ 19 .
2 ; Q, And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
3 20 4 ‘
z 21 he was never a contract agent of the Agency?
5 | AL Exactly,
2 22°
“ : ®% ° Do vou know whether he ever served in the capacity
pO
a a4 i OF being an informer or informant to the Agency?
z * i
3 25 A It is possible that he could have been a source.
t 5

SEC RET 4 Photocopy from

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HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 83

ae iy GH 2. Re B

2 m al YOu mean a source of -~
3 1
= 2 jj A, Source of information of another aqent. Another
: |
3
z 3 | agency agent.
2 if .
2 | a. No the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?
x A To my knowledce I don't recall anvthing like that but
wv . . .
a is entirely possible that shat could have happened without
9 i being a matter of record.
it
a3
at . a _ «
8 : 0 Do the files of the Agency reveal any instance what-
4 ;
9 | ever in which Frank Sturgis was ever asked to undertake anv
Vs j} kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?
au;
‘ 3 fo my knowledge. nothing.
yell 9, Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence
: am 4 : .
> = ;
t 12 | whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or
2 _ indirectly bv the Aqencv?
2 Le .
a aa To mv knowledge, no.
_ 3 Now, when vou sav “to mv knowledge, no", in answer
_ to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that
you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the
1é ;
basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files?
3 19
i) .
3 A On Prank Sturgis, ves.
g 20 4
.
i Q Okav. Puring the period of time that vou were with
21.
‘| the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,
22 | ~
“ ’ can vou tell us when that beaan in 1963?
is 23:
3 ‘ . Coe.
5 . A. When the Special Activities Group --
3 245
S 4 a No. When vour contact with the Special Activities
= 25 ;
7 ae ‘|

: h from
SEC RET Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page #4

we Be “GE BG Hes B

3 . Group began?
2% A It began -= well, it began around June of '63.

0. Now, with particuiar reference to the last half of

a

Phone (Area 202) b44-n000

1963, including whatever veriod in June '63 mav not have been

aps

involved, were there a qreat manv Cubans in the southern United

4 = States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being
7 | sponsored by the Aqency?
8 i AL Wellm vou mean Acency sponsored fronts?
0 Yes.
| A The Agencv subsicized these fronts in an effort to

have unity rather than these split factions, split anti~Castro

1
oI
; ip |, factions. Obviously the Leaders-of the fronts knew that the
13 | CIB was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
: _., fronts did not know thev were being subsidized by the Agencv
for she U.S. Government.
a! 0. But when vou sav “supposedly," does the fact appear
~ 4 to be otherwise?
5. 3. WEL1, based on mv axperience with the Cubans and this
ug | type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
: ao | it wouldA't take long for nowledde of any subsidy to surface
: a1 | itselé.
= FI
3 29 | a Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.
4 ,. | Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be
3 we
Es 24 : involved in the CIA orqanizations?
3 4;
E A, Yes. " photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library

to
on .

SECRET

HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 65


4 i? : oe . : .

8 te Q And again with particular reference to the Miami

g i , .

3 4

Ps 2 4 area?

a i

: 5 i A. Yes.

2 ai “0. Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere

in the United States? I am asking now particularly with

con)

reference to New Orleans.

Les)

are A There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am

; veally not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was

Si
i
3 4 Sort of a sideshow to ‘Miami,
an
-. 1! o But the same is -= it is possible that some of the
~ ti .
tt . . ee 7 ‘ -
-- # Same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded
~— if
i
-o it Dv the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?
: am i
3 u .
< ‘ lo we =
= -. A I don't know if = can answer that, whether they had
3 wu il
< _ the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for
z ~= . :
ed Subsidizing the orcanizations in Miami was carried out through
.. ; New Orleans.
and Q Well, can vou he nore specific about what vou mean
_ |
_. by that?
_ A Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we
i: :
3 _ | were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of
y a0 4
- + income for them to continue what they were doing. A great
3 Or : :
- ae a
2 i number -= well, not a great number, but a number of select
2 22 4 : ~
¥ _. | people were -- well, tnev were selected and then they were
“ ae
3 a talked to, to pose as trustees, if vou would, or directors or
r ae t
5 _whatever vou might have of some of these Organizations in order
7 2& .

ua

5E CRET Photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 86


Se

g - . to get the funding through to the organizations.
= 5 These people were normaily prominent people and -~
a ;
3 a a And did thev get funded by the Agency, then, through |
z ae
z 2 the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople?
= A. These well-to-ro people ostensibly would call a friendi
s of theirs that had heen made trustee of another type of activity,
> and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this
= type of thing. Could vour organization give us any monev, and
5 the guy. on the other and would say, sure, we can probably lend
te you $25,900 or something iike that, or donate $25,990. This is:
_ the wav the funding went into the fronts.
— A. And was some of that funding arranged through veonle
ak }
5
= . in New Orleans?
ed an
& . A. Twouid think so. I believe so,
_ a Were anv of «he veople in New Orleans through whom
oa)
1
_ that funding operation vas effected people who turned out to be
_, involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison? :
_ oR Mot to my hnowledde.
- a How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with
3 19 |
é the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance}
3 20 i
= . 1
- to Cubans or Cuban crouns? i
3 27 . :
3 ae }
3 a I couidn't sav. = am just not familiar with -~- we had!
2 Ze”
ul a great manv people that did this.
y on
= au . t
3 H
FA a. How about Clav Shaw? Was Clav Shaw ever used as a
3 £4 |
5 . funding source? /
2 ae
Sed ZO . H
Photocopy from

SECRET ’ Gerald Ford Library |

\

HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 67

ae Ge tat BY Bes d

\

: 7 “A, This I do not know either.
=
g 2 9, Pardon?
i 5 A This I don't know.
: a BY MR. MANFREDI:
5 0. Where would chat information be available?
& A Well, we have a cur that used to work with me who was
9 down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.
8 9. Is he in the hbuildina? .
5 h, Yes.
ic nN What is his name?
i: A Bill Kent.
. 1s 0. Bill Kent!
; i A. Yes.
: te BY MR. OLSEN:
_ a. Who is BiDEi Xen: with now? Which department?
a A, He is still with the Dpo.
ap BY: MR, MANFREDI:
_ o Western Hemisphere Division?
<6 AY Mo. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I
me think Career Management Group Staff.
2
>: Oo, - Ts he officed near vou?
: 29 a No. He iS cown in the basement.
Z 9: BY MR. OLSEN:

De the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were

‘
wD

BLO Batt Se

that were used to vroevide funds to the --

SECRET Photocopy from

- Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 68

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
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HY 50955 Docld

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Ae Oh, ves.
0, “~~ to the Cuban movements?
a. Yes. ;
|
. i
0 No vou Know whehter -- do vou know the identity of anv

of them in New Orleans?

cant

No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took .

llace in New Orleans.

+
1

2. I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary

{
for providing funds =o the Cuban fronts?

a The files that Ihave don't reflect it.
0 i think we covered this already just a few minutes agq
. ; . |
but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. !
: i
t

I understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963

that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban peonie in the southern
. i

United States, calked ahout and believed that thev were involved

in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? i

A. That is right.

“0, Was 12 also vour understanding and vour impression

that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in
the southern United States about plans or vrospects for the
assassination of Fidel Castro?

A I would sav no. f= don't think there was -- you have

got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost
:

their homeland, their wossessions, they lost everything and they}
. ;

blamed it all on one man. 1

Photocopy from

| SECRET "Gerald Ford Library

132275454 Page 69

Qu) bad-BO00

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WATT & PAUL

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HW 50955

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Docid:

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: 0 That is Fiedl Castre?
: A That is right, and they would probably verbally do

anything they could to qet rid of him.

0. Was there a iot of talk about killing Castro among

these Cubans?

A, I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probably was
a lot of talk about that.
0. Did vou participate vourself in the overhearing of
' such conversations?
: A Ho.
;
0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to
you?
: A. . Weil, it was -= I really don't remember what the

source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the
Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing
that this subject alwavs came up. ‘what were they going to do
with Fidel? How are thev going to get rid of him and this type

t

of thing. I don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the

Cuban exile community was discussing.
Q | Yes. Do vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the

Agency in 1963?

= seems to me he was here at Headquarters in

A Well, i
‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the
i
i DDP.
H 9, This is vour best recollection --

Photocopy from
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32275454 Page 90

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A, Yes.

9. “= at the moment.

engaged --

Is it possible that he was with

Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries

vou are right, ves. I believe he was there.

A i guess

if) Did vou personaliv know Howard Hunt?

A. Ho.

0. Never met mim?

A  Iomet Aim. That is all. I can't say I know him.
a You would not nave known anvthing about his where-

abouts on anv particular cav,

then.

Is that true?

the record.

A. Can we go off the record?
(Off the record discussion.)
THE WITNESS: Let's go back on
; BY MR. OLSEN:
0, I would like to have it on the record.
A De vou have a narticular day?
: 0 MO.

Hunt was such that vou would have

anv varticular dav.

a But vou would

SECRET

32275454 Page 91

but -- bump into him nerhans downtown on

nave no occasion

1

I am just asking vou if vour acquanitance with

nown of his whereabouts on

| ,
1
i A Mo.
Q Was it verv infrequently that you ever saw him?
i ar . .
ul A. Oh, I would see nim in the halls, this type of thing,
|
1

the street.

for. knowing from one

Photocopy from .
Gerald Ford Library

nat Hen Tus TEs

ES - i dav to the next where he was?
8 2 -
z
a ‘} 4
~ 2 | A, No.
3 . . . os
g = | 0. Have vou ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf |
= "od |
2 . # Of the Agency as to where he was on November 22, 1963? :
zo: A, Yes.
Pa 0 And when did -ou conduct that incuiry?
5 i A. I nave done it twice that I recall and the most recent
4 , :
1 Hl
a ; one was I quess -- If am gust trying to think. Well, it wasn’t '
- oS !
i i
~ = too long ago necause we did have an inaquirv and we obtained the:
an
- ff time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which
~~
_. | showed that Howard Munt vas on sick leave on that day.
—
-o ii Q Was this just fairlv recently? \
: — |
a :
: _ ‘ A Yes.
2 : —_
z od ny, Io understood from what files I have seen, “Mr.

Sturbitts, that the onlv records that were available from the

|
. . eas . . I
office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave

during the two-week vav neriod ending the 23rd of November but

that the records were not available as to how much sick leave

|

|

: |

+ : Lo: :

or annual leave had been taken on any particular dav. . |

|

. L244
2 i a Well --. 7
: 9. Am I mistaken?
es Pare i |
2 | A As I recall, ne was in a dutv status one dav and a
2 Be | -

: fo. oO
. ot i sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next dav.

. Keo} }
3 H : :
3 _ id I would have to check that vith my Budget and Fiscal Officer,
if Se i H
5 He is the chap that cot that for me..
= 25 |i ..

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i | Photocopy from
z
|

; SEC RET Gerald Ford Library

HWY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 92

aS? tes “at tes , |

Cc
Es 1 a Can vou check that for us?
2
> 2 AL Sure.
3 5 0. And give us the results of that? H
E 4 a Yes.
{
if
= q, Because this is much more detailed information than  ;
4 I have been previoulv aware is available in the files of the
5 Agency.
i
i
a AL All right. I will do that.
Oo
.
9 BY MR. MANFREDI: i
7 9. Do vou want to make a note of that?
1G
a A Let me have a niece of paper.
aA .
15 0. vou might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which
2 !
3 ~ |
s ,, is 351-5196.
2 |
5 _, THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?
z Le t
. BY MR. MANFREDI: |
_ an That is the dav. |
-* \
n «1963. |
17 |
_ a. In response +o whose inquiry was that investigation
ié
made?
> 19
2 A, I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I |
: Porat H
uo ov a i
° . don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether --
2 al. .
3 ‘Iwill just have to check that. I don't know who it was. |
z 22
u al And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the
= 23
3 ,
5 inquiry?
; 24 F
2 aA, No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefull-}
2 25 {
|
{

| SEC Qed Photocopy from

Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Doeld: 32275454 Page 33

2 EE GS Bh eB

0. You said there was a previous inquiry?

to

2 A Yes, The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt

i who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief o£
“t .

Cr

Phone (Area 202) 541-4000

European Division.

Ss

5 3) When was that inquirv received?

6G: A That was about a vear ago, I quess,.

7, .: BY MR. OLSEN:

8 0. About the first time these photographs began to be

9. circulated?

Lo A Yes.

in 0. About the bums in Dallas?
; 12 A Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inquiry |
i iZ came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was.
i va Chiefsof Station, London, Zor a long time and he apparently

-. made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. i

16S 0 This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm

7 . Maqazine? | |

a3 A That is right, f
; 19: 0 And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with |
: 29 - the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that |
: 21 funt was on sick leave on November 22nd? |
i an i A Well, I will have to check that. That is the way
z ae, il -. ;
4 93 \ tT understood it but I did aet this through our Budget people who
: 24 have the contact with the Office of Finance.
; : 0. And that he was on annual leave the day before?

4 Photocopy from
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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 94

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AL No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick

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leave, and then on duty status ‘the following dav.

BY MR.

MANFREDI:

0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's

previous pattern with respect to sick davs had pveen?

A {Nods in neaative)

BY MR. OLSEN:
9. November 22, i963, was a Fridav. When you sav that

records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --

A It was a Dridav. Then I was mistaken.
a) Does that mean he was on duty the following Mondav

or on the next dav, Saturday?

aA No. On =the following Monday. I didn’t realize the

22nd was a Fridav.

=)

Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief

memo together with whatever supporting <= copies of supporting

documents vou can find?

A, Okav.

a) As promptiv as possible on this question.

I think that covers the subject matter.

MR. MANFREDET: I can cive vou another moment if you Want.

Can vou think of anvthing else?

MR. OLSEN: I hink that is all.

i

MR. MANFREDI: Okav. off the record.

(Off the record discussion)

“HW 50955 Docld:32274454 Page 95

, Photocopy f
SEC RET ; Gerald _ Libeary

: BY MR. MANPREpr:

2 1 | B
a 24 0, Iam Sorry for the ™nterruption but over’ the long
2 = | I think Probably I saved vou some time,
— T
2 a4 We are talking ahout newspaper editors when we were inte
5 rupted == or when t invited the interruntion, I quess fr ough
6 . to be fair,
7 Is it not « act that the Aqencv had some relationship Ww!
F : some prominent newsnaper officials in the Miami area?
id
= A Yas,
‘i 7 - ; .
tn er And what vag cne nature of that relationship?
a 3, Traditionally the Chie¢ of Station maintained the
29 | relationship with officials of the Miami Herald, Particularly ;
2 7s ) Latin: American ecaltor, as well as relationships with Staff
z 72. Members of it, ¢ shink if is the Miami News and Stringers’ for

he tother newsnpaners and periodicals Stationed in: Miami.

i at what was the Purpose of those relationships?

ane A. Tt really couldnt+ Sav what the Prupose of the relation

-> Ship was, f méan, “he same reason that we establish a relation-.

ac |

1]

-, . Ship with the Press in this town, There were certain things that
2 -* |
8 s- . Might come to the attention of the press involving true names
3 oa |
3 .
2 . and incidents that ve fal+ Should perhaps not. be surfaced at any
2 gL .
z > | Particular time, l
3 Le + |
. _ I
“y = . . - i
3 P a DQ vou have anv knowledge of use of the press in Miami!
3 i
3 ee OF propaganda purposes? |
2 2
= _ A Mo. No,
- Ene,

Photocopy from
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HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 96

Se 95

organizations? .
Photocopy from

SECRET , Gerald Ford Library

folos : |
i |
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3 . } i
$ Ly |
3 i ) Would you know if that were the case? |
wa y
a 2} |
& A. No, E really wouldn't know, but the relationship was
od }
3 - ; }
< 3 | ;
3 | a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these |
j people as well as they were assigint us.
oa . 3
‘| Q What assistance would you render for members of :
é | oe,
J the press in Miami? :
7 il |
A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor |
fo) . . Lene = . -
we would put him in contact with the Chie*s of Stations of
i
g 1 ae .
areas he periodicaily visited and the Chiefs of Stations ‘
rofl ee bee ces . oan:
‘i would give him background oriefings and this type of thing :
; |
a | ee ns
| on che developments within a given country.
12 |
i | Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? |
i a2 |
tei . . one . ‘
. ~~ 3 A Predominantly, I would say probably the: Miami i
z |
3 ; cHerald received probably a little more attention than.the
a . . . i.
““41 other papers, principally because:it was a large paper and
| ra
ae i
it : - . se
+e ; their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout
“' . the Hemisphere.
va ; : .
. 7 3 Was he also used as a source? i
Hl :
70 4
2 ae A Mo.
2
i) 4 '
‘ ec | . . .
2 9 Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive
3 et : ‘similar briefings?
= ay
a i
= ee | a Yes. |
wl i
a ke! - ~ . . - . . i
3 “ G ) We taiked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time
Z 4
2 2 : about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these
3 , |
+ 25 |
‘i
| |

HW 50955 DocId:32275454 Page 97

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Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
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96
A Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were
principally interested in the leadership of the orcanizations.
Once the organization was established and the leadership took
over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess,
getting membershio from the Cuban exile community to join.
Q What were their functions, the fronts?

A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:

1

thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a

oolitical organization in exile.

9 Did they conduct any operations?
A No, not tnat I know of.

gas a |
Q Just i:ke a political varty? H

|

A Like a vcolitical party.
9 How many of these fronts were there?
A There were several of them. I really don't remember

the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary

Democratic Front. I guess that was probably the biggest one.

And’ there were some others.

9 The RDF?
x FRD. i

|
QO I see. H
A Front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the

Democratic Revolutionary Front.

2 All right. Are these groups still in existence?
A Iowoula think not. I really don't know.

SECRET Photocopy from

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HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 98

abh 3

Phone (Area 202) 544-6000

WARD & PAUL

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9 Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?

A No. There was but there isn't any more. There
hasn't been one there for years.

9 When was it disbanded?

A I think the station was established around 1958

and -- perhaps it was established before that. I think it

went out of existence in 1958.

9 Do vou Xnow whv it went out of existence?
A No, = fon'tt. = don't have any idea.
2 Do vou xnow what function it was performing?
A Nods in necative.)
2) You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked
in the Cuban community for the CIA?
A He worked with these fronts, too.
9 Vas he cerforming any intelligence function in the
community?
A Intellicence functions. Well --
: 3 Was ne collecting information?
A Sure. If he got information that he thought was
worthwhile he would 2ass it on.
oe) Now, would ne have been considered one of the three

or 500 nersons emploved or assigned to the Miami Station?

a Yes. He was a contract employee,
9 And were intelligence requirements levied on such

contract emplovees?
Photocopy from

SEC RET Gerald Ford Library

HW 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 39

ey He “Bh i |

; 7 i
3 1
id ~ 4 A Normally, the recuirements are pretty standard,
vT
2: .
2 F or they were at that time. But here again, you always have |
S vo ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to :
z 4 ; |
be surfaced. f
; i
i _ a ‘ .
Q Some of =hese contract emplovees were, then, in
6 the business of ccilecting intelligence information in the
° Cuban communities in Miami.
8 A Right. | :
3 Q Now, I think we Zinished with the AMOTS but can
1° you think of any cther functions performed by the AMOTS that
in. we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?
5 | . 7
4 1é : A Yo, not really. Ho. |
3
:
4 le 9 I think vou oreviously described them for me as the :
é — ;
3 is eves and ears into the Cuban community. i
. :
LE a Right. |
aa + , ~ fae : . . |
1é Q And thev actually had a physical facility in Miami
; i
17 which was their headquarters, did they not?
1lé A Exactly. |
a 19 2 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to super-
3 ;
2 ~
™ . sae 1
3 2c. vise that facility.
21 A Yes.
2 22° 9 Yow, what has happened to -the AMOTS?
* ae a The AMOTS were craduaily phased down and will go i
3 i
3 i
3 oo _ :
cd 24 out of existence -- the AMOTS are out of existence, aren't :
z 2b, they? Isn't it the AMDUKES or ~- these are the radio. people.

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HWY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 100

a fy Ol EG, es G 99

abh 3 3 Ll
2 Q And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?
2
a 2
% A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people.
g 5
2 9 They are the ones that conducted the intercept
= Qo
i for NSA?
5 | 7
A Yes. The only reason we use two different names
6 : * . ~ ‘ : . ~
is that in each cf these things in those cays we had to have
vi 1
a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the
8 | <:
i funding.
t
9} . = vee :
i 9 S50 AMDURKE and AMOT --
i
1G ¥ . c
i A Synonymous.
\
li: ,
8) -~- are crvotonyms?
i
1é | .
5 ! A Yes.
:
= {|
2 13 ff Lota: :
- | i) Do the initials stand for anything other than --
g 14:
ar A No. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt
wT somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a
i}
16 ; 5 . . : toys :
HI crypt. You con't nave anything to do with it. The AM happened
4
17 |

ssnat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.

he ae

a
_

, 8) Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for
assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the
political cenventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly

describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by

5 - the Agency to the Secret Service?
z i A At the request of the Secret Service we conducted
E 24 | name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted

£5 uraced. These includedthe emplovees of all hotels in Miami

| SEC RET photocopy from

, Gerald ford Library

HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page i101


pet aT | 100 |

oh 6 i
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g | Beach where any convention activities were to take place,
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8 a .
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3
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2 in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
ns ‘ + . + rod *
; is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.
5 |
j Foreign news people and media, television, radio péople.
i
6 i . ; .
: e) Jere these seople on whom name traces were requested
7G bees ;
: all foreign nationals?
8 i eos
H A All foreign nationals.
9 4 . : ;
‘ 2 Was there anv check made to determine whether
16 4 = . es
y any of them were American citizens?
|
11i - . .
fl A ‘la levied on the Secret Service as a requirement
aa] 2 :
Lk . , . se + oy -
3 | that they have identified these ceople by nationality before
: 13 |
wT a we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time
Ht
< 14:
3 “sl they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens
‘| .
TAR . 7 . .
“vt which we promptly sent back to them and told them we could
i
sg |
16 | not trace.
at
17 . - Lo .
ul i) Ana this vractice was followed both in 1968 and
1é jj
1972?
Oo 4 : +g
3 io | A That is right.
5 | -
“ i
3 20 | Q And where were these names traced?
3 els A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The
4 | : ~ .
3 ae | Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check
w | '
“ 23 | . - : oo. . -
3 H here. In the case or Cubans, probably the Miami Station haa
5 | : a
¢ ea more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.
3
= 6 7 a
* £5 | o But the names were traced through Agency files?

: SEC RET . photocopy from | |

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HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 102

sph 7

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Gi to

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22

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A

Q

on this

A

Q

coed Hes “eet BE HEB 101

Through Agency files.
Yas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI

as well?

And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name

check --

A

Right. '
-- on people who might pose a security threat -~-
Yes.

77 to a candidate?

ell, they were just trying to cetermine who might

be a security threat.

Q That is right. Potential threat.

WA Yes. :

3 For what political parties ~- strike that.

Tn 1968 was this service srovided for both political

conventions?

A Both political conventions.

on Were they both held in Miami that year?

A No. I guess it was in 1972 thev were both held
there. I think it was jfust. the Democratic in 1968.

9 These requests did come from the Secret Service
rather than --

A From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director
of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for

Photocopy from
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- SECRET

HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 103


102

the records with respect to

the names that have been traced.

cards down in your files?

records been maintained? Is there

to maintain them when

will destroy anything.

any Dicketing at various

7€en conducted by Cuban :

until I was told of it.
was a Spontaneous action on

to

were instructed
and I have been unable to.

it been reported that pickets

I think another

able to verify that these }

Photocopy from

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g | support.
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a | 2 Do you still maintain
a
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2 i that tracing activity?
¢ “ 5 .
& 4a,
if A I have all
a
ol : .
i 2 And they are on little
,
6 i
A Yes,
i .
7 |
9 Why have those
t .
8 | . toy : . .
i any reason those records nave 5een maintained?
|
9 fi ted ;
\ A ‘Vell, because ve were told
10 L. ; ;
| tne Vatercate ching broke.
il
ii 2 I see.
| ;
4 le . .
5 a A And since then nobody
bl 13
a + =
a - Q K. Are you aware of
Q |
=
14 : ; :
a. places in the country that has 5b
VS
25
H groups?
7 .
16 A Co was not aware of it
VV - :
i? I still don't know whether this
3 | = ay ,
18 | the part of these reople cr whether they
| -
| ’
3 19 | do it. I tried to run that down
3
x 20 -
4 2 At what locations has
5 ;
3 om were located?
3 22 ae ce: ae -
, A Airline offices in New York, Miami.
A
: 23 |
3 place. I forget where it was.
& ;
g a4 ) Have you in fact been
. £5 persons were Cubans?

HW 50955 Docid:32275454 Page i04

Gerald Ford Library

aan i oo a Yeas He |

1
g ‘
3 Li . te = . .
t ‘i A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history
z ‘
g 2 3 , Lens - 5 . , ; .
3 i that this indeed did take slace. ‘low, what I have been trying
3 . il
4 i ; . : a: : .
> ° H to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized
E a
& 4 3 _ . ¢ ;
- this,which I fully coubt. |
5 : 9 Who was the On-Site Case Officer?.
: | |
i : .. = 4 1 2 j
6 A At that time it was a fellow by the name or Tony i
‘i
? 1 Sforza.
3 | |
i 9 Zs he still alive? |
i
: he is a tami t 4
9 i A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know \
190% whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the |
|
37 : - = o
~~ | AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with |
< 12 | Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France. |
s. | |
2! . . . 5 . . i
2 13 | Q Other than this incident which we -- strike that.
Q Ht .
| |
3 14 3 dhat kind of an investigation have you conducted? |
i
weil
25 | A tT nave taiked to veople, which is really all you
i! a
163 can do. There is no other way vou can do it.
|
17 i 2) You have been unable to determine who, if anyone,
12! authorized this activity? Have you been able to identify
il
. :| :
2 19! any of the persons who participated in the picketing?
: |
1
G 20 11 A lo.
a i |
é 21, ) With what frequency did this activity occur?
2 Ze | A t don't have any idea. I only know of one instance. |
5 “|
a i . : , ., .
z 23 | 9 This was in New York City?
3
a i
a 24 |i A New York City and Miami.
: - |
7 25 1 9 Do you know of any organized political activity that |
i . }
| | |
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io) . ~ +
z | the AMOTS engaged in?
o
3 2 | , — . ar ;
a | aA To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any.
3 .
< 3 a toe
2 | Q Any political activity.
: am
= & il - toe
i Do you know of any other activities that they have |
ii
5 3 . Seas .
i conducted within this country, they or any of their members
‘ i
6 i, ; - eae i . :
: have conducted within this country that we have not already
7 |i
| discussed this afternoon? |
i i
8 A No.
j ° ° i
9. _ ees
il 9 Any volitical activities? Any operations?
10 A No. Not really. 92f course, we have used certain
. ,
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“ select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban
| 4
12 : - , . . oo |
3 “|| defectors. In other words, live with them until they are
: 13 | . |
; | resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity
z Ht i
< 4, it :
3 14 | they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of anvy-
|
_ i
15 | thing else. |
| ‘
16 | Q Do you know of any criminal activities that have
| |
i? | been attribited to --. |
|
aa A IT have heard of some allegations which have never
|
5
2 19 | been sroven. |
S ~ i
J 20 9 What are the allegations? i
a : :
= 5 | . - .
3 al | A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances
= 22 | and this tyoe of thing.
Ww | ;
a ;
= 25 o Have those alleaations been made with any fre- :
&
2 24 quency?
: !
7 £9 | A Weil, I forget who it was. It was during the :
1
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WARD & PAUL

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4tG First Strze1, S.E., Wastinglon, O.c. 20603

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TO es 105

2

Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out

and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we
made file checks and this type of thing. One particular
activity was supposed to nave been carried out in Rockefeller
Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of
context. ft was 2 training mission and -~ sraining exercise.
These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York

and they were simply asked to go inte a branch of the Manhact

.o
one oe

77 Chase Manhattan and <3 come back out and then they were
Supposed to diagram the layout of the bank. And this to some
of chem meant casing the sank when in fact it was justa
memory exercise.

q with what Zrecuency were those kinds of training
exercises conductsd?

A Well, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt

that these people, selecred individuals, were to be trained

4 And Gid their trade craft training include such

things as surveillance?

cy cure.
2 And break-ins?

No. ot break-ins. Nor Surreptitious entry. As I

ws.

said, in the case of this varticular thing, it was misinter-
preted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -- they

could have walked into vour office, your outer office and

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416 First Street, S.E., Washington, ©.C. 20003

sad) fr Yes WA ths 106

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said -- the instructor could have said two hours later tell
f

me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it?
This is just for observation.

9 You stated earlier none of those allegations have

ne

been proven. lave any of them been proved to your

satisfaction?
A Mo. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.
9 I take it vou do not believe they took place other

than the training exercise?

A Oh, no. No. I don't believe they dic.
9 Do you know of any instances where members of that

group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry

in this country?
A No.

2 -- dave you ever been present at any discussions of
the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the

Miami Station within this. country?

A Legality? No.
a Yow about the propriety?
A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.

No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or
the propriety of having the Station.”

9 There have been some allegations in the press and
elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of

that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those?

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A No.
Q We received some correspondence and I have seen some |
i

articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of

a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for variousi
operations in this country.

+ You mean this country?

;
2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some |

other examples of unusual activities. 50 you have any knowledge

use by the CIA cf Cuban nationals or exiles for any typ

rth

fo)
of operation within this country?
A No.

2) Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided

any financial support for Cuban businessmen in this country? ;

ye

No. Not to my knowledge.

2 Other than the maintenance of cover?

' H
aA No. }
23 Establishment of businesses? i
A No.
a) No? |

t
ay No. |

‘
'

In the course of our discussions today we discussed

i

the. AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various oolitical front groups,

revolutionary front croups. Are there any other emigre, |

Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported
i

by the Agency, either financially or otherwise?

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410 first Sircet, S.E., Washinglom, ©O.C. 20003

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A Not to my knowledce.

) Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached

to Mr. Colby?s statement?

A Yes.

Q Did you have some role in drafting that?

A You mean the Miami Station thing? ~
a) Appendix J, entitled, “The Miami Station".

A Yes.

Q You wrote it?

x Yes,

i) It has a familiar ring about it. There are referenc

to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are
there any others other than the ones we have been discussing?
A Not to my knowledge. Shere: are, you know, if vou
want, to. call.it an organization, we did, vou know, subsidize
thevwRelleout of Juanita Castro.
QQ Yes, I am familiar with that.

A fou are familiar with all that and that is by the

board now,:too.

Q Sne was. doing -- ~-

A Propaganda.

) -- oropaganda broadcasts. .

A Yes.

2 Do you have any »ersonal knowledge of what xind of

intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami

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WARD & PAUL

410 First Strcet, $-€., Washington, 0.C. 20003

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12

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taf Hon Cat BY Bs 109

area now by the Miami Staticn?

A There are no domestic activities at all in the
Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been moved back
here to Headauarters. The ‘‘iami Station now is completely
and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.

9 Does the !flami Station -- I beg your pardon --
does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban
situation in Miami run any 3gents in the Cuban community?

A No. Well, let me exMDlain that to you. “Ne do have
a career agent who has been with us for a good many vears
in it!iami and we do use nim to contact relatives of Cubans
who are still in Cuba. T mean, relatives who are in the U.S.
who nave relatives in Cuba.

Now, this is done srincipally with the idea of a
recruitment target, determine weaknesses or strengths, ‘this

type of thing. He Goes contact these people all over the

3

United States. If we come across an individual that. looks like

ne might be recruitable, or szerhaps we could even double hin,

‘we Will, after we make our creliminary assessment, and we

find cut where relatives anc these types of people are, we
will ask this career agent cr instruct him to go contact

these people, be it New York, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-

aver.
Se vou use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this

COuUntIrV as access aqdents. . .

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i od io Yes OES B
16 j
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2 | A Right.
3 i
3 an Q Just like foreign associates would do.
3 . —_ |
< ° A Exactly.
g
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* ‘* | i) Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who ©
" i
5 4 . ; - . .
vil are contract emplovees of the Agency who still work in the :
|
HI a . . _ :
6  iidami-Cuban community?
> i
cy A No. Mone.
i |
Hl : . y i
8 | 2 That entire apdaratus nas been -- |
i Ceo
if
9 a Has been dismantled. |
| |
1C | 9 -~- dismantled. “hat is the current size of the
1
il | Miami Station? |
.
‘ le) A’ I really Gon't know but it runs between 11 and 14,
a as far as I know. I think it will be 1l by the next fiscal
Q |
<
ES vear. , |
MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
(Discussion off the record.) |
|
“MR.MANFREDI: Let's aco nack on the record.
i
i . .
18 i BY MR. MANFREDI:
3 19 9 There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
3 i -
3 20 | of iiami?
G |
g 21 aA No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of |
z | ,
3 22 | jeadquarters. © oF
ud | I
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< 23 | 2 And even from the Headquarters location there are
g
3 24 | no Daramilitary operations? i
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3 1 |
$ -~ i .
g i 9 Mo covert -- well, there is some propaganda activity |
Ps) i =
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° . > : *
N | being conducted still?
Q a |
< of
Q Hl A On a very small scale, and the covert action facilit:
E 2] ;
i that we had, the radio, taped srogram, is being terminated |
5: ; ;
i py 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated  .;
6
+ now, :
7 | i
: ia) The Miami Station is under official cover. |
By
i A Yes,
9 | oo, ;
2 And it nas been decreased to how many people? |
i !
Lc ti . ; |
i A Between il and 14. !
li rf |
| Q And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
12 | .
3 respect to Cuba?
<
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° 4 A Absolutely none.
a i j
3 14 3 _ eq eas . .
| 2 And its responsisilities are entirely directed to
15 j
, other Latin American countries?
16! . .
‘i A To Caribbean countries.
i? il
wd 9 Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are
18 4 ; a
. Other Agency stations in the Caribbean?
3 19 ; A Yes.
4 20 i a) Nell, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts. |
t 1
3 21: ; ; .
2 ; i If vou have anything vou would like to add you are welcome
= iH
3 i
2!
= 2 j. to do so.
il '
° 23 | |
3 ; A No, I have nothing. ;
& 24 |
2 “Tl a Iowant to thank vou on behalf of myself and the
° ' i
= 25 |
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| A Sure.
2 Iam sorry ve had to take so much of your time.
A That is ali rignt.
Q Thank you again.
(Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of “ne

| deposition was concluded.)

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