[1]178-10002-10091
[3]AGENCY :
[4]RECORD NUMBER :
[6]RECORD SERIES :
[8]. AGENCY FILE NUMBER :
[10]ORIGINATOR :
[11]FROM:
[12]TO:
[14]TITLE :
[16]DATE:
[17]PAGES:
[19]SUBJECTS :
[21]DOCUMENT TYPE :
[22]CLASSIFICATION :
[25]CURRENT STATUS :
[26]DATE OF LAST REVIEW :
[28]OPENING CRITERIA -
[30]COMMENTS :
[32]|
[34]Assassination System
[35]Identification Form
[37]Agency Information
[39]ROCKCOM
[40]178-10002-10091
[42]SCHWARZER-MANFREDI FILES
[43]S-M (IV-W)
[45]Document Information
[47]ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION
[49]DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM C. STURBITTS
[51]04/16/1975
[52]113
[54]ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES
[55]ASSASSINATIONS, FOREIGN LEADERS
[56]CIA
[58]CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS
[60]CUBAN EXILES
[62]FERRIE, DAVID
[64]STURGIS, FRANK
[66]HUNT, E. HOWARD
[68]MIAMI
[70]NEW ORLEANS
[72]SHAW, CLAY
[74]STURBITTS, WILLIAM C.
[76]GARRISON, JIM
[78]DEPOSITION
[79]Secret
[81]1A; 1B; 1C
[82]Redact
[83]02/13/2001
[85]Unknown whether name is releasable.
[87]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 1
[89]2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
[90]Date: 87317201
[92]te
[94]Deposition of
[96]William C. Sturbitts
[98]Pione {Area 202) 944-6000
[99]ay
[101]y » William Cc. Sturbitts
[102]8 §
[104]178-10002-10091
[106]4 12 |
[107]z _ 178-10002-10215
[110]178-10002-10279
[113]a |
[114]|
[116]|
[117]22 |
[119]41, $.E., Washington, O.C, 20003
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[124]24 |
[126]410 First Stee
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[135]SECRET
[137](Resumed)
[139]SECRET
[141]Examination by Counsel
[143]For the Commission
[145]2
[147]i (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)
[149]58
[151]Photocopy fram
[152]Gerald Ford Library
[155]i
[156]nt | SECRET
[157]3 |
[158]8 H
[159]Z | PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
[160]we) |
[161]a 2
[162]a | ON CIA ACTIVITIES
[163]FI 24
[164]= an ---
[166]z |
[167]; 4 Langley, Virginia
[168]5 |
[169]‘ Wednesday, April 16, 1975
[170]1
[171]6
[172]H Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for
[173]7 ; A . as a
[174]1 examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,
[175]By
[176]| the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary
[177]Gus oe, ; :
[178]: Public in and for. the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
[179]t
[180]ae Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50
[181]i. ; o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings»
[182]A .
[184]: Le being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. MeClenning, and
[186]2 zd
[187]5 1°! transeribed under her direction.
[188]3 sO APPEARANCES:
[189]2S 4 On behalf of the Commission:
[190]16 | GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ.,
[191]I ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.
[193]a 19 .
[194]3
[196]C \
[197]5 21
[198]2 28 \
[199]. ease eee
[200]a .
[201]5 DA Photocopy from
[202]“ Gerald Ford Library
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[205]1
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[209]SECRET
[212]2 4
[213]: PROCEEDINGS |
[214]= 2
[215]a Thereupon, |
[216]: ° WILLIAM C. ‘STURBITTS, mace
[217]z ¢ 7
[218]* * called as a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA
[219]5 Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary
[220]6 Public, was examined and testified as follows: |
[221]’ EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION
[222]6 BY MR. MANFREDI: .
[223]9 Q Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the
[224]10 record?
[225]it A William C..Sturbitts.
[226]2 1é . Q Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some
[227]s
[228]: 15" weeks ago you signed a document entitled, “Advice and ©
[229]: 14 waiver"?
[230]LS A Right.
[231]16 0) You understand that document is still in effect?
[232]17 “A Sure.
[233]16 Q Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?
[234]2 19 A You mean the Agency or -~
[235]3 :
[236]: £0 Q That is right.
[237]: 21 . A Central Intelligence Agency.
[238]: 22” Q And what is your current position with the Agency?
[239]Li
[240]3 23 A I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for
[241]: 24. REeonomic Intelligence Collection and Operations.
[242]3 25 : Q And would vou briefly review for me the history of
[244]SECRET i tis;
[246]50955 Docld:32204971 Page 4 SECRET
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[299]your employment with the Agency?
[300]A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence
[302]Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on specia
[303]detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, piand,
[305]which is now the Directorate of Operations.
[307]Q What year were you put on that detail?
[309]A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.
[311]Q And what did that detail involve?
[313]A Cuban operations, economic warfare.
[315]Q And how long were you on that detail?
[317]A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.
[319]2 Between 1964 and. 1973?
[321]A (Nods in affirmative.)
[323]5 And in 1973 did you assume your current position?
[325]Q Now, while you were on special detail -- to the DOD?
[326]A . Yes. | |
[328]Q Were you stationed in Washington?
[330]A Yes.
[332]Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami?
[334]A Yes.
[336]9) Were your activities in Miami in any way connected
[338]with the operations of the Miami Station?
[340]A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.
[342]|
[344]j
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[352]|
[354]t
[360]|
[362]|
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[366]|
[367]A Yes, January.
[368]t
[370]|
[372]|
[374]I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami. |
[375]|
[376]|
[378]: Ph tocopy from
[379]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[381]Ke a
[383]Phone (Atea 202) 544-6000
[385]WARD & PAUL
[386]re
[387]Cy
[389]2
[392]i)
[393]re>)
[395]i
[397]24;
[399]320 Farsi Sireel, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
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[409]Most of my operations were run out of Europe.
[411]is) Run out of --
[413]A Eurove. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones
[415]were run out of Europe.
[417]a Well, in the course of your activities with respect
[418]to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the
[419]operations of the Miami base?
[421]A Yes.
[423]2 And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?
[425]A Yes, sir.
[427]9 During the nine years you were with ppo's Cuban
[428]operations, who was -~ who were the chiefs of the Miami
[429]Station?
[431]A . I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
[432]was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know
[434]it. Well, I will come back to that.
[435]Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze.
[437]Q What years was he Chief?
[439]A I think ‘Baul was there about a year and a half. He
[441]Left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's
[442]say HehZe was there from 1966 to 1968.
[443]He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.
[445]Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which
[446]you were assigned for the 9-year period?
[448]A Well, when I first came in it was known as the
[450]; Photocopy from
[451]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[453]And then Jake Esterling.
[456]SECRET 5
[458]g :
[459]= 1
[460]s > .
[461]= : Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.
[462]g Ao:
[463]8 | And then, f believe after that it became the Cuban Operations
[464]g 5 | |
[465]2 | Group.
[466]2 a a .
[467]Q Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was
[468]5 . : - ar
[469]it attached to one of the area divisions?
[471]A No. Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a tning |
[472]7
[473]called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And
[474]8 , = Lee oe vo
[475]that -~ when Harvey left, he went to tef of-Station, Rome,.
[476]9 , oy eit ete
[477]. and Fitzgerald took over, 1% became Special Activities Staff.
[479]It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the
[480]ll. a
[481]Deputy Director, Plans.
[482]; 12. . .
[483]z : Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?
[484]¢q .
[485]: 130
[486]~~ A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it
[487]14 : es : :
[488]3 _ was first created. Helms was DDP at that time.
[489]Ik .
[490]oe Q And Task Force W was created immediately after the
[491]16 Bay of Pigs? -
[492]LF oA Nell, not immediately. I think sometime around --
[493]i6 ' lin the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in
[494]3 1g September, something like that, 1961.
[495]e 20 Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities
[496]= 21 : Staff?
[497]$ RES A Special.Activities Staff and consequently became the
[498]a :
[499]= BS “Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went
[500]Z i
[501]2 245 pack into the Western Hemisphere Division.
[502]7 25 9 And what was the date of that reorganization?
[504]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 7
[506]. phot from
[507]SEC RET cori Ford Library
[512]wt VRE & 6
[514]g . .
[515]: ° A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around|
[516]3 2 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then
[517]i S later DDP.
[518]: 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. |
[519]5 ° Harvey held after he left Task Force W? |
[520]6 A Yes. He wasiChief of Station, Rome.
[521]” _ Q And is he still with the Agency? |
[522]. |
[523]8 A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. !
[524]Q 2 Do you know where he lives at the present time?
[525]ine) A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.
[526]li He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. |
[527], 19 Harvey is a lawyer. !
[528]3 . i
[529]: 12 9 Indianapolis area?
[530]: i4 A Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest,
[531]1s Indiana. |
[532]|
[533]16 Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force
[534]1
[535]18 A Tt was'the overall Cuban operations. |
[536]- 19 Q Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab- |
[537]: 20 lished? |
[538]: 21 A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base own)
[539]E 29 there about 1960 which was small, ‘in: Coral. Gables. |
[540]3 23 Q This was, then, srior to the Bay of Pigs? |
[541]3
[542]; 24 A Oh, yes. |
[543]2 26 2 Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami
[545]. Photocopy from
[546]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library ‘
[548]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 6
[550]sECKET ,
[552]& Station running any operations against Cuba?
[553]a 2:
[554]a H A You mean orior to. the Bay of Pigs?
[555]4 5 |
[556]2 : Q Yes.
[557]i 40 }
[558]A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a |
[559]5 | |
[560]forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type
[561]6 ,
[562]thing.
[563]7 - ,
[564]" 19} Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was |
[565]. |
[566]8) established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban |
[567]9° |
[568]. = operations?
[569]1c .
[570]tC A Yes. H
[571]i! j
[572]Lh . ; ae Loo
[573]1i- Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami
[574]Q 3 .
[575]d Le i Station?
[576]< a . i
[577]4 1s | A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. :
[578]3 is Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special |
[579]. !
[580]+5. activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group? |
[581]16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station
[582]i? " has no Cuban operations. |
[584]ic. Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi- |
[585]i
[586]2 19: pated? _
[587]g : i
[588]3 20 4 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down ;
[589]= |
[590]3 21° there in 1972. It was during fiscal year '72. I think it was |
[591]3 22% in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. |
[592]= go Q And have those operations been terminated entirely
[593]5 24! or are they now run out of the Washington area?
[594]E i |
[595]+ 25 i A All. Cuban operations are run out of Washington.
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[604]$ 4
[606]: + : There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.
[608]3
[610]§ é 2 But there are some Cuban operations being run out of
[612]< 5 the Washington area?
[614]i 6 A Right.
[615]3 9 Is that correct? |
[616]6 A Right. Worldwide. |
[617]7 : Q Mr .Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may |
[618]8 ; have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina-
[619]9 tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination
[621]CO attempts that have been mounted -~
[623]25 I recall, he wanted some British -- I mean Belgian rifles and
[625]lit AN Right.
[626]2 le: Q -- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your
[627]< a . ;
[628]a i! : |
[629]3 iS activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any suchi
[630]i] " }
[631]< a.
[632]3 li" attempts? .
[633]: 1
[634]LE A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say
[635]16 > attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too
[636]17" strong a word.
[637]16: Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of
[639]3 19: any such discussions? |
[640]5 20, A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions, |
[641]: 21; I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald
[642]i i ,
[643]2 22 I in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -~ let me put
[644]: |
[645]: 23.( it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on
[646]: |
[647]24 ij, with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, 4s |
[648]i
[649]|
[652]_ | ae {Photocopy
[653]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[655]HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 10
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[659]i~]
[660]3 L |
[661]g | a telescopic sight.
[662]g ge ,
[663]e i 2) Who wanted them?
[664]é S| | ons
[665]2 : A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think
[666]i 4
[667]at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going |
[668]; |
[669]i= f
[670]on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another |
[671]. i
[672]fe} |
[673]reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald
[674]9
[675]met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-
[676]8 |
[677]tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy.
[678]|
[679]9 : oo. . . |
[680]: I provided all those files. . There are 19 valumes that :
[681]1c - ; oo |
[682]. we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing !
[683]aa . . '
[684]“+ them... I think Belin was going to do it himself.
[685]2 12. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself.
[686]« i
[687]: Loo You said there were 19 volumes of documents with i
[688]2 * 4
[689]z a ; i
[690]5 ~= - respect to this. |
[691]|
[692]Vs : . . 1
[693]ae A 19 files, manila. |
[694]16 9 All having to do with possible assassination? |
[695]it A All having to do with this whole time period and -- |
[696]le can we go off the record for a minute? |
[697]3 ig (Discussion off-.the record.) |
[698]: 20 BY MR. MANFREDI: |
[699]z : |
[700]= 21 @) The first knowledge of such conversations that you
[701]3 d
[702]2 ee" had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr.
[705]a a
[706]2 24 A I simpiy overheard it, that is right.
[707]= . 1
[708]7 25 QO “And who were the parties to the conversation you overt
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[711]Gerald Ford Library
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[717]aod Hn “es BES 8 Lu
[720]3 1 4
[721]q i heard?
[722]a 2 *
[723]A i A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez.
[724]3 ‘1 -
[725]< 5 | . ; j
[726]2 ‘| Q And Mr. Fitzgerald? |
[727]z Z
[728]* A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other
[729]- people. We were -- we nad just moved the Station at that time,
[730]Q !
[732]“ < in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace
[733]F |
[734]° * and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations
[735]a . H
[736]“ {
[737]8 i took place -- we walked around the garden and tyat type of
[738]|
[739]g % . . i
[740]“; thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody
[741]a . . ; i
[742]1c: Lok - - ; . . te
[743]. was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations. |
[745]Q This was in Paris? |
[746]2 ie A Yes. |
[747]2
[748]z N 1
[749]- 130: {
[750]2 car Q I see. |
[751]3 aa) Mr. Sanchez -- was he a member of the military?
[752]LE A No.-.Mes,, Sanchez was.,in the Special Activities Staff.
[753]16 | He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with
[754]ay -
[755]iv" Cuban military+stype.
[756]ic Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had received
[757]2 io: instructions with respect to this activity from another
[758]R :
[759]) £0 i component of the Government?
[760]c q
[761]3 21: A Well, let me out it this way. I don't know whether
[762]E yo
[763]3 221 they received instructions. [ have to assume, and I am pretty
[764]ul n *. .
[765]a won ; ; a
[766]Z £5 positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision.
[767]A f ; ,
[768]3 24; And at this time you have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was
[769]2 4 . .
[770]* | overseeing this deal, 2resumably for his brother, and he was
[772]25 |
[774]SEC REL Photocopy from
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[847]ao te on BEES |
[849]part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided
[851]the did a number of things.
[853]Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall
[855]in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of
[857]Fidel Castro was discussed? : i
[859]A No, not really. : i
[860]Q You referred to this as the first occasion.
[861]1
[862]A This is the first -- |
[863]|
[864]9 Was there a second? i
[865]A -~- the first time I knew about it or even heard it
[867]discussed.
[869]Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently
[871]underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigati
[873]-- were there any other occasions in which this subject came
[875]Paris?
[876]A The only other thing that came to my attention was
[878]that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight
[879]that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don't know,
[881]but that is what I was told.
[882]Q When did vou learn that?
[884]A Oh, I would assume in -~ must have been early 1964,
[886]around February, something like that.
[888]We
[890]i
[892]1
[894]j
[896]|
[898]|
[900]on
[902]i
[904]to your attention after this discussion in the garden in |
[905]|
[907]|
[909]i]
[911]1
[913]|
[917]|
[919]Q off the record. |
[920]i
[921]|
[923](Discussion off the record.)
[925]; Ph tocopy from
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[930]a Em et BN hn B 12
[932]z 7 MR. MANFREDI:- On the record.
[933]5 2:
[934]5 : BY MR. MANFREDI:
[935]2 3 i
[936]~ wd / Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by
[937]- * _ the name of Franx Sturgis?
[938]° A Indeed.
[939]© Q Is your Zamiliarity based on what you have read in
[940]7 .
[941]the press?
[942]© A No. It is what is contained in the files.
[943]? Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,
[944]is particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,
[945]i. in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any
[946]z Le 2: connection with the Agency?
[947]: -
[948]2 ie A I have.
[949]Z a
[950]z a a) What were the results of that search?
[951]=o A Absolutely no connection, never has been.
[952]eS Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about
[953]17. an employment relationship?
[954]Le A That is what I am speaking of.
[955]n i3 Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of
[956]8 :
[957]20. the Agency?
[958]3 2h A No.
[959]3 22° Q Was he ever a contract employee?
[960]3
[961]5 ae
[962]= ze A No.
[963]5
[964]a 24 Q Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency?
[965]2 No.
[967]NS
[968]on
[969]J
[971]Photocopy from
[973]SEC R EL , Gerald Ford Library
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[1013]HY 50955 Docid:
[1015]Q
[1017]Agency?
[1019]i A
[1021]Q
[1023]pated in any
[1025]Q
[1027]A
[1029]over Cuba and
[1031]thing that comes to mind, I think he made a
[1033]SECRET -
[1035]Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the
[1037]Not to my knowledge.
[1039]Do you
[1041]type of paramilitary or other operation against
[1042]On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this
[1044]How aid vou learn of those operations?
[1046]Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports.
[1047]Now, are these recent FBI reports?
[1049]Oh, no. These go back -~ I know at one time, the
[1051]leaflet drop
[1053]this was subsequently reported in the press and
[1055]by the Bureau office in Miami.
[1057]Lay
[1060]AB
[1062]Q
[1064]indirectly financed by the Agency through -- i
[1066]i A
[1068]32204971 Page 15
[1070]fortune: has been.
[1072]with the Agency.
[1074]Q
[1076]Do you know who financed his activities?
[1077]I have no idea.
[1078]Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were
[1080]I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of ©
[1082]When I went through his file they wanted me
[1084]to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't
[1086]destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance."
[1088]Off the record.
[1089]Photocopy from
[1091]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[1093]know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
[1095]He has constantly tried to associate himsel
[1097]|
[1099]f
[1104]iad the “os BR
[1105]14
[1107](Discussion off the record.)
[1109]MR. MANFREDI: On the record.
[1111]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[1113]to Mri,
[1115]PMacsayar GAM OU POD) ba-t-eearek
[1117]rs
[1119]Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect
[1121]ai
[1123]Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
[1125]A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
[1126]7 . . ;
[1127]Q And wnat is the volume of that material?
[1129]A As I recail, there are five volumes. Your Committee |
[1131]¥ called for them the other day after the article in the paper,
[1133]-~ I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and!
[1135]+ they returned them Monday afternoon. ,
[1136]= “* 6) De you know who examined those files?
[1138]5 A No, I don't. .
[1139]= : . ( :
[1140]3 += Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts !
[1142]: i
[1144]2 . i
[1146]a the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? |
[1148]i
[1150]_— A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits
[1152]+) of so-called information.
[1153]i
[1155]Le Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged
[1157]19 ; , |
[1158]g ne narcotics traffic?
[1159]S : i
[1160]e 20 . A Recently it has been.
[1161]2 et Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office
[1162]2 22" in Miami?
[1163]J ;
[1164]A 7 :
[1165]3 ze A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami
[1166]2 na to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the
[1168]a
[1169]on
[1171]FBI. - .
[1172]Photocopy from
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[1209]on Sturgis, ©
[1211]information
[1213]seUKE f
[1215]Q Do vou know whether or not they consider him an
[1217]established contact?
[1218]A No manner.
[1220]Q Do they have any -~ do they periodically seek to
[1222]collect information from Mr. Sturgis?
[1223]A I can't speak to that but the records that we have
[1225]don't reflect anything like that. Before they would contact
[1227]somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file
[1228]hey would have to coordinate with the Latin
[1230]american Division before they did anything since we do hold
[1232]the file.
[1234]Q Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?
[1236]A . A 201 file is a personnel file. It consists of any
[1237]relating to an individual appearing in the press
[1239]as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.
[1241]Q Personnel or personality file?
[1242]A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.
[1244]9 Do you know whether or not there is any connection
[1246]or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?
[1248]A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know
[1250]each other. They have to know each other from their days
[1252]in Cuba.
[1253]8)
[1255]pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?
[1257]recall, we employed Martinez around 1961,
[1259]- photocopy from
[1260]SECRET Goraid Ford Library
[1262]A No. AS
[1264]32204971 Page 17
[1266]Do vou know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
[1269]SECREL | | 1
[1273]I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a
[1275]a
[1277]boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations
[1279]i
[1280]q
[1281]|
[1282]and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run,
[1283]|
[1285]Phone (Ares 202) 444-0000
[1287]sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in
[1291]any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever
[1293]é i do it on any of cur boats, planes, or -~ anything that beloncs
[1294]? to the Agency.
[1295]8 9 When Martinez would run such an operation or captain
[1296]if . ‘
[1297]9 a boat on such an operation, would ne be charged with putting
[1298]7 together his own crew?
[1299]1 | A No. de had an assigned crew and every boat had a
[1300]z 4 | Case Officer operating either out of the -- probably out of’
[1301]= i ; H
[1302]: ie H the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have
[1303]= 4 ; i
[1304]2 Le | some people in the -Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receive
[1305]3 his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. i>
[1306]26 Q Sa it is likely that he could have brought Sturgis |
[1307]if along on any of these operations? ; |
[1308]| A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was. |
[1309]z 29 trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer.
[1310]= i
[1311]: 20 | Q . And that would be.for a period of time between
[1312]i ek | Shackley and Henze? |
[1313]z | i
[1314]: 22 A Yes. | |
[1315]: 25 Q 1964 to 1966? |
[1316]: 24 | A Something like that.
[1318]bi bass ¢
[1320]Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the
[1321]i
[1323]; ' Photocopy from
[1324]I : SEC RET Gerald Ford Library '
[1326]HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 18
[1328]te
[1330]mo
[1334]. 17
[1335]S af i
[1336]3 13
[1337]2 4y activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
[1338]4 f !
[1339]a 2 4 . : : i
[1340]é i your -- and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during |
[1341]J
[1342]Z 3:
[1343]r | your 9-year tenure with those groups.
[1344]pd | |
[1345]7 a A Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board i
[1346]- > intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign
[1347]positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary
[1348]78
[1349]i activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about |!
[1350]Bs a oe ae un
[1351], the breadth of the thing.
[1352]|
[1353]3 , ,
[1354]° Q. Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?
[1355]ae 4 .
[1356]~s A Right.
[1357]jaf . oe :
[1358]te re) Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary
[1359]au i
[1360]z “'; operations. Were these operations run out of southern
[1361]< i ,
[1363]3 ~““ “Florida? :
[1364]5
[1365]2 “6 A Right.
[1366]aaa Q And in particular out of the Miami Station? i
[1367]|
[1368]16 A Yes.
[1369]17 Q Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of
[1370]i
[1371]1é the country that participated in these activities? |
[1372]. i
[1373]z L9 A Not to my knowledge. _
[1374]3 20 |, Q Were there any southern harbors other than Miami
[1375]2 el that were used in these activities? ;
[1376]3 Sg !
[1377]n “ » a . !
[1378]z Re A Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As |.
[1379]3 ° . |
[1380]3 23 | I.said, we did have a Key West base.
[1381]3 i . |
[1382]3 24: ) Were there any other bases in that area of the |
[1383]3 i
[1384]> 25) country that were utilized in these operations?
[1385]H “ q
[1387]SECRET ; Photocopy fram
[1389]: Gerald Ford Library
[1390]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 19
[1392]SEUKEI 18
[1394]z 4 A Well, not that I would call a base. We did have
[1395]2 5!
[1396]2 ~ i raining facilities for the UDT teams.
[1397]z 3 | ,
[1398]z i Q What is a UDT team?
[1399]: 4
[1400]- * A Underwater demolition.
[1402]° OQ where were those bases located? :
[1403]6 1
[1404]~ A I frankly don't know. They were down along the Keys, |
[1405]? ; along that long peninsula going down there. There were a |
[1408]|
[1410]; 2
[1411]“Y= in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people i
[1412]is . j
[1413]77 if oe _ . . toe ge i
[1414]++ 4 participating in these activities?
[1415]4 i
[1416]12 | i
[1417]z am A Not ta my knowledge. |
[1418]Pa HI :
[1420]< 13 | Q Where were these people trained?
[1421]re i
[1422]z id A What'do you mean? |
[1423]4 ; H
[1424]a . |
[1425]=5 |i 9 Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.
[1426]i !
[1427]26 |: OR We trained them at these places we had in the Keys. |
[1428]1?" Now, there also ~- some of them were brought up here and trained
[1430]i
[1431]1848 at.the Domestic Training Station. i
[1432]H
[1433]~ 19: 2 Where is that located?
[1435]: 20 ii A That is down in Virginie.
[1436]i 21 | 2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these |
[1437]z iH . : '
[1438]: aol oo |
[1439]z ce |} rvaldas?.
[1440]- H H
[1441]a | . we {
[1442]< 23 i A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to
[1443]j | os _ |
[1444]Z 24 understand at this time that we hac a great many contract
[1445]= 25 employees, independent contractors and this type of thing.
[1446]f , ;
[1447]i
[1448]i
[1450]number of sites. I really can’t
[1452]recall them.
[1454]Were there any other sites within the United States |;
[1456]Phot f
[1457]SE ¢ R Et . Gerald Ford Library
[1459]Gerald Ford Library
[1461]SEGRE! 1
[1463]Bf “| Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was
[1464]3 ,
[1465]= 2, a, |
[1466]a 4 conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another |
[1467]wi . . -
[1468]zr | entity of the -- |
[1469]” a Q DDO?
[1471]. A DDO.
[1472]é€ tage . ; , .
[1473]Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,
[1474]7 - lacus ae ;
[1475]training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special
[1476]< Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special ;
[1477]7. Operations. Group, is that correct?
[1478]ty A Nell, supervised, ves, and I would think that probabily
[1479]te some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic |
[1480]. '
[1481]|
[1483]z te Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but I |
[1484]z . i
[1485]2 is would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would
[1486]3 16 probably staff the training racility with their people who have
[1487]25 the expertise in paramilitary operations.
[1488]i
[1489]. 4
[1490]16 e) Now, were the people that were being trained at
[1491]an these facilities basically Cuban refugees? j
[1492]Ls A Yes. |
[1493]i
[1494]= ig 9) And at the outset I take it not many of those people
[1496]J 20 were American citizens?
[1497]S |
[1498]3 21 A No.
[1499]E 7 |
[1500]3 2° ae) Or had become American citizens. i.
[1501]1 7 —_ 2 t
[1502]23 A I would assume a creat many have.
[1503]ca ‘
[1505]= 24 2 By this time. i
[1506]2 . |
[1507]= = . oo . , from |
[1508]= 25 . A By this time, yes. Photocopy |
[1509]I
[1510]i
[1512]SECRET
[1514]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 21
[1516]SEVKE! 20 |
[1517]| | |
[1519]co
[1521]g 7
[1523]: ~ 4 9 At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi ty
[1524]a j in Miami? Do you have any idea?
[1525]2 = 4 i
[1526]< oo. . : “oy - oe . .
[1528]: t A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is |
[1530]probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards a
[1532]on
[1534]military people.
[1536]Oa
[1538]3 You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert
[1540]“2
[1542]action. How do you distinguish between those two categories
[1544]8 ; of activities?
[1545]9 q A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The |
[1546]ie ; varamilitary could fall into covert action but in those days !
[1547]i
[1548]it ; we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was
[1549]5 ;
[1550]z is ; media placement. We had a number of operations at ~-- legai-
[1551]£ i
[1552]é 1s type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel |
[1553]; Ls seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he-had a |
[1554]+5 Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in !
[1555]HI ,
[1556]16 : the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings |
[1557]iv : that were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned |
[1558]ié : in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them | |
[1559]3 L9 because he obviously didn't have clear titie to them. He was |
[1560]: 20 ~= they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was |
[1561]i 2h | forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada. :
[1562]E i ne
[1563]3 22 We ran legal operations, got the owners and had them |
[1564]: 23 4 hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing. |
[1565]: 24 i He seized these race horses. de tried to peddle them
[1566]- '
[1568]|
[1570]| in Europe and up in Canada. Ne ran opposition against that
[1571]! .
[1573]|
[1577]I
[1579]SEC R ED . Photocopy from |
[1581]Gerald Ford Library
[1583]HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 22
[1585]SECRET _ a
[1587]5
[1588]2 {
[1590]od ~ . Ln
[1591]3 type of thing.
[1592]& il Q These were what you considered to be covert operationg6?
[1593]3 ‘ : . . f
[1594]Z 5 |
[1595]> A Yes, covert action.
[1596]3 . !
[1597]z 4 . . . , . i
[1598]Q Now, this is wnat you were referring to, legal- !
[1599]~ type operations?
[1600]~ A Yes,
[1601]Po
[1602]: 9 You used legal process to harass Castro.
[1603]8. .
[1604]A Yes.
[1605]° 7 Q What other types of harassment activities did you
[1606]w :
[1607]a run that would fall under this covert action category?
[1609]to aA Well --
[1610]! |
[1611]7
[1612]2 aad Q Would economic warfare be --
[1613]: 134 .
[1614]; aa A That was sort of something separate unto itself.
[1615]3 + This was -- the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a i.
[1616]-* decision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockade.
[1617]H
[1618]25 3 What special group is that? :
[1619]7 |
[1620]aad A Tt is now called the Forty Committee. :
[1621]ié 9 Is that 302 Committee? |
[1622]: I
[1623]a 29 A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all,
[1624]3 i
[1625]z |
[1626]L 20; it was called the Special Group, Ci, Counterinsurgency. Then |
[1628]4 21) ge went to the 302 and then it had another name in between
[1629]3 ol _
[1630]3 221 there and now it is the Porty Committee.
[1632]= ao 2 All right. We will return to that a little bit
[1633]F oa - ;
[1634]z 24. later, but what other types of harassment were you running
[1636]= j i
[1637]= 25 3 og -_ |
[1638]. aw s stro -7 .
[1639]against Ca Photocopy from ;
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[1643]SECRET
[1645]HWY 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 23
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[1697]HW 50955 Docld!32204971 Page 24
[1699]20 i
[1701]21}
[1703]|
[1705]activities,
[1707]ao fe he EF 22
[1709]This is what I was trying to think of.
[1713]Q -~ that would be considered covert action?
[1714]A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement,
[1716]media placement. It has been so long ago I really don't
[1718]remember. I know we had a number of things going against him.
[1719]We used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some
[1721]extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,
[1722]particularly when they were countries that we had treaties
[1723]with, NATO countries, Canada, this type of thing.
[1725]9 Let's talk about each of those in turn. You said
[1726]you used moral suasion. what kind’ of activities are you
[1727]referring to?
[1729]A. Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we
[1730]were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal
[1731]the legal -- well, I don't know how you would
[1732]shrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control
[1734]reguiations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the
[1736]|
[1737]|
[1738]i
[1740]Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of}
[1741]H
[1743]Commerce, the Export Control people.
[1745]I. guess as vou are aware, Cuban industry was totally
[1747]U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of
[1749]|
[1750]|
[1752]thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying
[1754]to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where
[1756]we would find this out through all-source intelligence, we
[1758]or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the
[1760]§ EC R El Photocopy from
[1762]Gerald Ford Library
[1765]. SECRET 23 |
[1767]g |
[1768]Q :
[1769]es 1 -
[1770]g executives of these American companies and ask them to tell
[1771]4
[1772]3 2 . .
[1773]a their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts
[1774]Z and the other things that Castro might need. We had the
[1775]z 4 , _
[1776]Department of Commerce -- we identified 600 of the major U.S. §!
[1777]5 . a :
[1778]companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.
[1779]P _
[1780]We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600 :
[1781]7 . oe
[1782]: manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying
[1783]8 a |
[1784]any spare parts to'the Cubans. This was a fairly concentratea |
[1785]. 1
[1786]i] = . 1 :
[1787]effort to really isolate them.
[1788]ic. . 2 : . .
[1789]Q All right. And that is what you were referring to i
[1790]ll -
[1791]as moral suasion?
[1792]12
[1793]: a A Yes.
[1794]a i
[1795]a 12
[1796]: “e ) Anything else in that category?
[1797]Z TA . . i
[1798]° ~* A Not really. None that I can think of.
[1799]+8 Q Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign
[1800]. 1
[1801]i
[1802]16 : |
[1803]companies?
[1804]1 . =: :
[1805]1% A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,
[1807]i
[1808]lé os ss , \
[1809]a6 the .point..in case being the Leyland buses. We pulled all stops
[1811]i
[1812]3 ig totstop that sale. The British Government turned us down
[1813]Qa
[1814]Q
[1815]cr
[1816]e 20 Elat. i
[1817]- f
[1818]3 el 2 Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of
[1819]ft, |
[1820]= ee supply? |
[1821]“ i
[1822]” D) ae . .
[1823]3 25 A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive purchasing
[1825]z e4 orogram. If there was a single source of supply for a
[1826]E
[1827]. £5 particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans
[1829]. Photocopy from |
[1830]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[1832]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 25
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[1883]the market.
[1885]Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic
[1887]Q
[1889]A Yes.
[1891]9 -- domestic market?
[1893]A No. It would be re-sold abroad. ,
[1896]Q In all cases?
[1898]A The cases that I was associated with, it was all
[1900]sold abroad.
[1902]3 What kind of purchases were made?
[1904]A Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased
[1906]some Bright Stock in Antwerp.
[1908]2 What?
[1910]A Bright Stock. :
[1911]2 What is that? |
[1912]A Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of |
[1914]her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical
[1916]commodity. Bright Stock can be -- oh, it is almost like tar,
[1918]melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this
[1920]type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So
[1922]we had an oii firm
[1924]which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually
[1926]solid in Africa.
[1927]“Do you know of any sales of such materials that
[1929]Resales, I should say.
[1931]purchase this Bright Stock from a dealer for
[1933]a es
[1935]were made within the United States?
[1937]No.
[1939]we
[1941]} Photocopy from
[1943]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[1945]HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 26
[1947]aa tea as EES 8 |
[1948]g i
[1949]8 13 “
[1950]z F Q In addition to preemptive buying were there anv
[1951]a 2: |
[1952]a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of
[1953]3 «Hl
[1955]2 | supply to Cuba?
[1956]& 400
[1957]a A Well, we did provide through third country agents
[1958]5 ; ; i
[1959]who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce
[1960]7 Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had :
[1962]" replacement parts manufactured that were substandard. !
[1963]B _ ; , . |
[1964]" 9 And you had them sold through foreign companies?
[1965]2 : . j
[1966]“os A Well, we had our agents-get the Cuban orders all
[1968]over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of ‘fact,
[1970]“- "the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Deg.
[1971]‘| ; ,
[1972]ie i head ;
[1973]3 ome and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this. |
[1974]Fy _. it
[1975]: a 2 Mr. Dillon? :
[1976]< ta, ;
[1977]° ee A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. '
[1978]: i
[1979]“4 Q But -- ‘
[1980]rs ;
[1982]B A But vou must remember that these American -- i
[1983]~t Q Mr. Connors? j
[1984]a A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,
[1985]3 ~9 well, their places were nationalized and they were only too |
[1986]3 ‘
[1987]x “ !
[1988]. ON . s . 3 H
[1989]¥ =“ i happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona -
[1990]S$ or py EO,
[1991]a «i fide business. These things were transshipped through two
[1992]= ae i or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. i
[1993]De) J $
[1995]3 Os 2) You referred to some extra-legal activities.
[1997]2 ll A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what
[1998]= i
[1999]> OR a ~ oe . ~ ue
[2000]7 sv i| we did. IT just can't think -- I remember this was on one of :
[2002]SECRET Photocopy from
[2004]Gerald Ford Library
[2005]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 27
[2007]aw)
[2009]Phone {Ares 202) 542-1000
[2010]ra
[2012]yr.
[2014]oh
[2016]WANT & Pate
[2018]bet fe et
[2019]ie) cu
[2021]t ’
[2022](ni
[2024]1. DOUUS
[2026]fol. Wathisgiu, 6
[2028]PE bree Gare
[2030]HY 50955 Docld
[2032]oat fea ns BH 26
[2034]our activities but I just can’t think -- I remember this was
[2036]on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the
[2038]extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know
[2040]it was one of the parts of the program.
[2042]Q This was illegal activities? Is that what you are
[2044]referring to?
[2045]A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they
[2046]weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps. they were in a
[2048]gray area some place.
[2050]Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international
[2052]law, the laws of the United States?
[2054]A- I would have to go back and review the thing. I
[2056]really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.
[2058]Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files? :
[2059]i
[2061]A I would think probably. down in. the Records Center some
[2063]. a !
[2065]place. :
[2066]Q Would it be possible to obtain that material some
[2068]time Guring the lunch hour?
[2070]A No. It is forty miles away.
[2072]Q Well, is there some place in the building where
[2074]you could refresh your. memory?
[2076]A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped.
[2078]This is talking ll years ago, 12 years ago. All that material
[2080]has been retired.
[2082]What category of activity would we be talking about
[2083]Ct 7 .
[2085]; Photocopy from i
[2086]. SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2088]Q
[2090]:32204971 Page 26
[2092]SECKE! 35
[2094]3
[2095]z when we refer to extra-legal activities? .
[2096]g 2
[2097]a A This is what I was trying to think of and I can’t
[2098]i z
[2099]g think of what it was. i know extra-legal activities was one
[2100]9 .
[2101]- 7 parts of the program that we were involved in.
[2102]. I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might!
[2103]B :
[2104]tell me what that is. ;
[2105]e
[2106]Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to i
[2107]g , |
[2108]come back to that.
[2109]" A All right.
[2110]an s) Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal |
[2111]*~ activities that were run against Castro? |
[2112]18 ; ° '
[2113]3 7 A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable ‘are
[2114]2 ;
[2115]a
[2116]aes : . . !
[2117]: “* probably retired ana I was running the program. So I ran
[2118]bod . |
[2119]3 += the economic program.
[2120]|
[2123]Well, these are activities that were run in connection
[2125]ion)
[2127]Q
[2129][o>)
[2131]with the economic program?
[2133]~ A Yes.
[2135]+50 Q We talked about media placement during this nine-
[2139]he
[2141]vear period... To what are. you referring when you refer to
[2146]media placement?
[2148]stations?
[2151]3 27 ; ;
[2152]2 we A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our
[2153]4 - i
[2154]= ao . . H
[2155]* naed propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers |.
[2156]5 .- |
[2157]3 ew and magazines throughout the world.
[2158]3 a,
[2159]3 ae Q WYould this also include broadcasts over radio |
[2160]- q
[2161]2 O6 {
[2162]7 raze)
[2164]i
[2166]Photocopy from
[2167]SECRET «Send Ford brary i
[2169]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 29
[2173]Phone (Akt 202) 44-0000
[2175]on
[2177]~I
[2179]Ob
[2181]ire}
[2183]™M
[2185]WAR & PAUL
[2186]IA } 4 tH a]
[2187]nan fen ifs Cn
[2189]2
[2193]Cp
[2195]sebbanl Gd 5, Woewtagnetese, bs 0
[2196]tay) to
[2197]Gl n
[2202]TED sot
[2206]A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.
[2207]Qo Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines
[2209]published within the United States?
[2211]A Not to my knowledge, no.
[2212]Q These were essentially foreign publications?
[2213]A Yes.
[2215]Q Were any cof them published in the Cuban community —
[2217]in Miami?
[2218]A No. The intent was to get world opinion against |
[2220]Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.
[2222]Q “What about the. radio broadcasts? How were those
[2223]handled?
[2224]A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?
[2226]9 Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations
[2227]were involved. Was there more than one radio station?
[2229]We only had the one radio station but we did
[2231]contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.
[2233]9 For broadcasts to what areas?
[2234]A For broadcasts to Havana.
[2235]9 And the station in New York, was that received also
[2237]-~-~ was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United
[2239]States?
[2241]A I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a
[2242]particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it
[2244]on short-wave or what they did.
[2245]: ; Photocopy from
[2247]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[2249]HW 50955 DoclId:32204971 Page 30
[2252]t4-6000
[2254]Phone (Asea 2a2j 4
[2256]WARGO & PAL
[2258]OO
[2260]a
[2262]peed, SU. Wastiaghen, 0 0.
[2264]bay
[2266]ALG Vist
[2270]Crt
[2274]oD
[2277]CA
[2279]i
[2280]4
[2282]on
[2286]Spas fe
[2289]I
[2290]C2
[2292]no
[2295]no
[2296]i
[2298]SECKEL 39
[2300]Q But the intention was to reach Cuba.
[2301]A Reach Cuba.
[2302]Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to
[2304]as Swan. Were there others?
[2305]A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
[2306]I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,
[2308]Miami.
[2310]I think, and one down in Kev West that they used.
[2312]Q Where was Radio Swan located?
[2314]A On Swan Island.
[2316]Q Where is Swan Island?
[2318]A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.
[2319]Q As far as you can recall, were there any other
[2321]radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
[2323]broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
[2324]A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
[2325]I recall right now..
[2327]Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups
[2329]affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American
[2331]public to support those’ propaganda activities?
[2333]A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of
[2335]thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.
[2336]Q Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were
[2338]run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?
[2340]A Oh, yes.
[2342]Q Was anything of that nature done in connection with
[2345]SECRET Photocopy from |
[2347]‘ Gerald Ford Library
[2349]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 31
[2351]SECKEI | 30
[2353]g i i Cuban propaganda?
[2354]: e A Not to my Knowledge.
[2355]: ° Q And that would include both the publications and the |
[2356]: 4° radio? |
[2357]7
[2358]5 aA Right. |
[2359]Ss Q ‘Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of |
[2360]7 4 moments. Could you describe for me briefly the type of |
[2361]|
[2362]8 ‘economic activities that were conducted against Castro? |
[2363]A | Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the |
[2365]regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We
[2367]worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in
[2369]the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, I
[2371]: 13 guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped from
[2372]: — about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like
[2373]16 i that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -- Fidel kept 7
[2374]| i
[2375]16 | saying that he had such a roor crop and this type of thing and
[2376]7 we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop because
[2377]18 some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihg
[2379]a 19 this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,
[2380]; 20. this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was
[2381]i 22 | lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any |
[2382]E 22 | place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he
[2383]‘ 93 | could. |
[2385]; 24 | So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in
[2387]= 26 | New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a
[2388]i | | !
[2389]_ SECRET gerald ror brary
[2391]HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 32
[2393]SEUKE! 31
[2395]“| real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.
[2397]It was this type of thing that obvicusly he was
[2399]Cl
[2401]trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any
[2403]Mhowe (Ares 202) $44-h006
[2406]i
[2410]money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't
[2411]| |
[2413]Oi
[2415]want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of
[2417](ch
[2419]activities.
[2421]7 . . ;
[2422]Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S.
[2424]companies enlisted in that effort? ;
[2426]a |
[2428]A Oh, yes.
[2430]7 2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and
[2432]““ businessmen?
[2434]fe!
[2437]A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great
[2440]Cr
[2442]many ~- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the
[2444]WAR & PAGE
[2446]i
[2448]jo
[2449]a
[2451]= American community, by American bankers, and obviously they
[2453]ch
[2455]ia
[2457]lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the
[2460]oh
[2462]lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this
[2464]19° c . se :
[2465]~! type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it!
[2466]+é was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.
[2468]i? QO What kind'of assistance did vou seek or obtain from
[2470]- 2a0us
[2472]ea 7 ‘
[2473]<O . these businessmen?
[2475]ay)
[2476]ja
[2478]A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you
[2480]know, the market conditions were, why the price was rising, if
[2482]two
[2485] Washiagion, bi4
[2487][ae]
[2488]Cl
[2490]we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would
[2491]¥Y g
[2493]£4 : happen to the market crice. This type of thing.
[2495]bh feet Gai
[2498]cA
[2500]‘i Q They were used as consultants,basically.
[2502]s E ¢ R ET Photocopy from . |
[2504]Geraid Ford Library
[2505]WY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 33 --
[2507]a the Mes Ee 2 32
[2509]7 A They were used as consultants, basically, yes.
[2511]fhe)
[2513]a) We have spoken about the investment American business
[2515]Coll
[2517]had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American
[2519]Piro: (sens OO2} 6449-00
[2521]organized crime --
[2525]A NO.
[2526]~ 9 -- had considerable investment in Cuba?
[2528]No., Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in
[2530]é - . oo ahs .
[2531]Cuba. IT mean, all the casinos and this type of thing. |
[2532]‘9 . :
[2533]9 The casinos were run --
[2535]“ A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force !
[2536]i coos _ ; |
[2537]“7 during the war, I used to fly into Havana on weekends and this |
[2538]se '
[2539]: Lea : = . H
[2540]3 type or thing. !
[2541]£ H
[2542]2 te Q I understand that. It was fairly well known.
[2543]: | |
[2544]; -= A It was a criminal element. i
[2545]=< 9 The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana. |
[2546]16 |
[2547]“ A Right. ;
[2548]Sieg _ . ; ‘ys
[2549]-! Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist |
[2550]+¢ the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner
[2551]. . . : |
[2552]3 ig whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime?
[2553]3 !
[2554]: £0 A No.
[2555]2 al Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?
[2556]3 22 BY Oh, yes.
[2557]A a : i
[2558]3 £0 Q When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?
[2559]: i
[2560]v1 . t
[2562]3 24 A Well, I guess it was -~ it seems to me it was either
[2565]* £6 Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number
[2567]Photocopy f , i
[2568]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library !
[2570]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 34
[2572]SECRET 33
[2574]of years.ago.
[2576]9
[2577]3 7 |
[2578]3 _ :
[2580]7 ca
[2581]3 i
[2582]& 2: ; .
[2583]2 i Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's
[2584]a ,
[2585]) if
[2586]< 5
[2587]: “i name?
[2588]5 ‘
[2589]Ey a3
[2590]: A Yes, as I recall. |
[2591]= |
[2592]i Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana?
[2593]; i
[2594]6 4 : soa :
[2595]A No. I have heard that name but I don't know where... .
[2596]74 7
[2597]F Q In connection with -- i
[2598]8 H . ; . . :
[2599]a A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
[2600]i |
[2601]G4 : ae . . '
[2602]“4 9) In connection with the casinos or -- |
[2603]it : j
[2604]a f
[2605]if A No.
[2606]ici |
[2607]aed Q ~~ gambling interests in Cuba?
[2608]2 |
[2609]Le | A No.
[2610]x 4
[2611]2 a2 . :
[2612]: tet 9 You know of. no instance in which organized crime :
[2614]s “> #igures were used as consultants by the Agency?
[2615]oH A Only what I read in the paper. f had no knowledge
[2616]254 of that whatsoever.
[2617]a 2 Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures |
[2618]. |
[2619]ifs of that type -- . |
[2621]bal 12 £ A NO.
[2622]2 . ~
[2624]J 20 5 Q -- who were interested in getting back into cuba? i
[2625]Co . . :
[2626]Z i . |
[2627]2 “ A No.
[2628]3 | |
[2629]2 22 || a) We were talking about economic warfare. We have
[2630]ul j
[2631]w - : + : - ‘
[2632]3 ge ‘| talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other
[2633]2 a i
[2634]3 ‘
[2635]3 24 types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's
[2637]* 25 Cuba?
[2638]Photocopy from
[2640]|
[2641]|
[2642]t
[2643]|
[2645]: SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[2647]HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 35
[2649]SECRET 7
[2651], |
[2652]. |
[2653]i - ; A Well, we used all-source information to find out what
[2654]3 2 j his commercial dealings were. When we would see -~ well, for |
[2655]3 ‘
[2656]: i instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a source owned |
[2657]3 :
[2658]a 6 by the General Services Administration, finally got back into.
[2659]production and nickel, of course, and still is -~ was in short
[2660]c supply. We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was
[2661]? buving almost; the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this |
[2662]& i French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to |
[2663]9 the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control ;
[2664]10 people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |
[2665]AL le Nickel exports coming into -the United States? So they lookeld
[2666]i Le ; into the thing and indeed they did. |
[2667]g : i
[2668]‘ ie: Q ° Who owned the mine?
[2669]: ie A ‘The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it
[2671]'
[2673]Q
[2676]K
[2678]I see.
[2680]be
[2681]us
[2682]re}
[2684]A
[2685]2
[2687]BI General Services Administration. And it was leased
[2689]out for operation. But the ownership rested with the
[2691]i
[2692]G)
[2694]bee
[2695]a>
[2697]Government.
[2699]ww)
[2701]So the Treasury simply made the French provide a
[2703]Ao
[2704]c
[2706]for the nickel that went in -- they
[2708]a
[2710]2
[2712]Certificate of Origin
[2714]that contains nickel, silverware, knives |
[2716]440 Fosst Siicel, $.€., Wasniagton, OC, 200035
[2718]221 export a lot of metal
[2720]i i
[2721]es and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless
[2722]Ed y steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply
[2724]i
[2725]28 il + Treasury simply said vou can't import any more into this
[2727]; Photocopy from
[2728]: SECR ET Gerald Ford Library
[2730]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 36
[2732]| SECRET | +s
[2734]é i
[2735]: t | country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter
[2736]3 . | of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in
[2737]: ° New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it
[2739]* 4 / around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel - |
[2740]° found other sources and export privileges to the United States |
[2741]6 , |
[2742]| were restored.
[2743]F
[2744]? ! You know, it is -~ you just -- any time you raise
[2746]8 ! or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that
[2747]9 | simple. |
[2748]I .
[2749]10 | Q Were there any other instances that you can recall
[2750]di | of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of
[2751]2 12 | American business firms?
[2752]2
[2753]: is A I know we were in touch with a great many American
[2754]cs i .
[2755]: 14 | business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could.
[2756]25 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[2757]16 | . (Discussion off the record.)
[2758]17 . BY MR. MANFREDI:
[2759]18 | 9 When we broke for a moment we were discussing other
[2760]3 i9 | ainstances where the Agency has enlisted the support of Amer ican)
[2761]‘ 20 | business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of
[2762]3 21 | any other such instances? |
[2763]i 22 | A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having.an awful time
[2764]u
[2765]5 23 | with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats... were
[2766]: 24 | powered: with) Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg
[2767]= (25 , people and told them ~~ asked them to cooperate with us, which
[2769]. Photocopy from
[2770]5 EC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2772]HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 37
[2774]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2776]16
[2780]12
[2782]13
[2786]17 i
[2790]19
[2792]21
[2794]22
[2796]25
[2798]24
[2800]410 Firsi Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[2802]25
[2806]SECRET ——
[2808]they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's
[2809]representatives around the world if they got any orders from
[2810]the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.
[2811]We did the same thing with --
[2813]Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg
[2814]compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?
[2816]A No.
[2818]Q Were they compensated for the loss of business
[2819]involved in that activity?
[2821]A No. No.
[2823]Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from
[2824]other companies.
[2826]A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.
[2828]Q pid any American companies refuse to cooperate in
[2829]that manner?
[2831]A No. Not a one.
[2833]|
[2835]- 9 Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any
[2837]companies?
[2839]A No. No.
[2841]Q Were there any sanctions. that could have been brought
[2843]to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with
[2844]Cuba?
[2845]A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.
[2847]Cuba, They couldn't get export licenses from this country
[2849]anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the
[2851]SECRET Photocopy from
[2853]Gerald Ford Library
[2855]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 38
[2857]| SECRET '
[2859]8
[2860]: | Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause
[2862]2 * | in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --~-
[2863]: ° | foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with
[2864]6 :
[2865]° ai the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated country.
[2866]° And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried
[2867]6 | to twist their arm. i
[2868]7 | Q Other than insuring that these companies refused
[2869]e to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were
[2870]9 legally constrained from doing, what other types of support aid
[2871]|
[2872]10 | you receive from American business? |
[2873]. |
[2874]12 A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would |
[2875]2 le receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, ehey
[2876]g :
[2877]; 1 received it from Cuba asking for.publications and this type |
[2878]t
[2879]: 14 | of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing
[2880]15 to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in -
[2881]16 some instances they might call me and I would just give them
[2882]i” : a Post Office box to send the correspondence to.
[2883]ie Q Any other types of support solicited or received by
[2884]3 ig | the Agency from American business?
[2885]: 20 © A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one
[2886]: al firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know
[2887]: 22 how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of
[2889]3 25 fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,
[2890]z 24 that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the
[2891]; 25 | government wasn’t really pushing Cuba the way it should, but
[2893]SEC RET Photocopy from
[2895]Gerald Ford Library
[2897]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 39
[2899]SECRET .
[2902]8.
[2903]: ' outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera~
[2904]a Q
[2905]a , tion. There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.
[2906]3 - i .
[2907]2 - 4
[2908]2 ~ Q Did you identify yourself as CIA --
[2909]z 4
[2910]A Yes.
[2911]) ; . ; ;
[2912]Q -- in dealings with these companies?
[2913]6 .
[2914]A Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even
[2915]7
[2916]the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all.
[2917]8 i; ; . _
[2918]i Q Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started
[2919]9 ; but didn't really discuss that in any depth.
[2920]io ! ; . a
[2921]j What kind of paramilitary operations were run
[2922]|
[2923]11 | . :
[2924]» against Cuba by the CIA?
[2925]i
[2926], 12 i tue .
[2927]5 i A Maritime operations.
[2928]< Hy
[2929]7 13 | ; ,
[2930]a i Q Is that the extent of it?
[2932]> a A That is the extent of it.
[2933]t
[2935]a Q Were there any aerial operations?
[2936]i
[2937]+6 A Not to my knowledge.
[2938]~Q Leaflet drops?
[2939]A No.
[2940]2 19 | Q Bombing?
[2941]g tt
[2942]& i
[2943]g 20 | A No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as
[2944]Al
[2945]g 3
[2946]5 an I am concerned that is the only aerial activity.
[2947]8 an Q That was run by another directorate, wasn't it?
[2948]a Hl .
[2950]ry £5 | A Yes.
[2951]g i;
[2952]g 24 Q Aerial photography, and so forth.
[2953]g |
[2954]* 25 A Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to
[2955]| SECRET Photocopy from
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[2959]HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 40
[2962]SECRET ,o
[2964]Gerald Ford Library
[2967]°o |
[2968]2 1;
[2969]g ' be requested and that is about it.
[2971]a 2 4
[2972]a | Q And those were run out of the United States?
[2973]é 3 |
[2974]2 A Oh, yes.
[2975]8
[2976]& 4 .
[2977]Q . Can you think of anything, any other type of para-
[2978]5 oo ae .
[2979]military activity other than maritime operations.
[2980]6
[2981]A No. I really can't, no. i
[2982]|
[2983]7 3 , .
[2984]4 Q Am I correct that those operations were manned
[2985]i
[2986]8 ;
[2987]1 by CIA contract employees?
[2988]9 ' A Right. |
[2989]10 | , .
[2990]~ | QO WhiGh would include Cuban refugees. }
[2991]i |
[2992]14
[2993]11 A Right.
[2994]i
[2995]3 a Q. And some:CIA officers?
[2997]i
[2998]12 A Right.
[2999]Q |
[3000]3 43 ; oo,
[3001]3 14 4 Q Any other branches of the services, Armed Services,
[3002]4 : . |
[3003]15 | . : .
[3004]a involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs.
[3005]16 | A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to remembdr
[3006]Wy = that probably down at our Domestic Training Station we
[3007]16 ; probably have people on-detail from other -- from the military
[3008]HI
[3009]3 19 ! branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think
[3010]° '
[3011]8
[3012]g 20 i that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also
[3013]¢ |
[3014]3 el | had people detailed into the Agency.
[3015]= ke | Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime
[3017]a
[3018]Fy £5 operations, I take it, was conducted in part within.the
[3019]a i
[3020]z 24 | United States and in part outside of the United States. Is
[3021]$ 26 |
[3022]v 5! - —_
[3023]| that correct? . Photocopy from |
[3024]|
[3027]SECRET
[3029]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 41
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[3033]WARD & BPRUL
[3034]a)
[3037]18
[3039]19
[3041]20
[3043]Washingian, D.C. 20003
[3045]Street, SEL,
[3047]ALD Fiest
[3049]HW 50955 Docld:
[3051]SECRET 7
[3053]A I would think. probably the major portion of it was
[3054]conducted within the United States.
[3056]Q ‘The Keys would be considered within the United
[3057]States.
[3059]A Oh, yes.
[3061]Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted
[3062]outside the United States?
[3064]A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not
[3066]to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall
[3068]but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done
[3069]domestically.
[3070]Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within
[3072]this category of maritime operations?
[3074]A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating
[3075]agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage
[3076]raids. That is about the extent of it.
[3078]- Q Now, when did. these.operations commence? Was it
[3079]shortly after the Bay of. Bigs?
[3081]A I would -- I think these operations were’ probably
[3083]at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,
[3085]1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December
[3087]1968, something like that.
[3089]Q Why was the program terminated?
[3090]A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn‘t provid-
[3091]ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,
[3093]SEC RET ‘ Photocopy from
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[3099]4
[3103]Phone (Areu 202) 544-6000
[3104]Crt
[3106]10
[3107]11
[3108]12
[3110]13
[3112]WARLU & PAUL
[3114]14
[3116]15
[3118]16 |
[3120]1?
[3122]19
[3124]al
[3126]22
[3128]25
[3130]24
[3132]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, B.C. 20003
[3134]25
[3136]HW 50955 Docrd:
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[3140]SECRET 7
[3142]it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
[3143]getting wrapped up. We were -- we just felt that the return
[3144]wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.
[3146]Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up.
[3148]A Yes.
[3149]| Q ° What do you mean by that?
[3150]t :
[3153]| A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify
[3155]him and capture him.
[3157]Q These various types of paramilitary operations that
[3159]were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the
[3161]ete.
[3163]Forty Committee?
[3165]the Porty Committee.
[3167]Q In advance?
[3168]A In advance.
[3169]Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for
[3171]|
[3175].
[3176]| A Every operation received a specific approval from
[3177]|
[3179]|
[3181]|
[3183]|
[3185]|
[3187]|
[3191]|
[3193]. 7 ;
[3194]initiating such an operation?
[3196]A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.
[3198]or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache.
[3200]Q You are referring to a cache of arms.
[3201]A A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,
[3202]whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have
[3204]|
[3205]| one of these operations and the request would go from here
[3206]| over to the, I guess to the White House and then the Forty
[3208]Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very
[3210]| SE C 4 ET Photocopy from
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[3232]to)
[3234]SECKE! 42
[3236]frequently ~- they would either approve the operation or say
[3238]no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because
[3240]the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper
[3241]phase for communications and this type of thing. And these
[3242]things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of
[3244]Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were
[3246]exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
[3248]Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military
[3249]agency that had’ any “involvement whatsoever;,..and the entire
[3250]thing was coordinated.
[3252]Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations
[3254]that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?
[3256]A No.
[3258]Q What kind of volume of operations are we talking
[3259]about?
[3261]A -You are not talking about a very big volume of
[3263]operations because of the planning that had to go into these
[3264]things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing
[3265]they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.
[3267]Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having
[3269]run 300 operations.
[3271]A I have seen that.
[3272]Q Is that inaccurate?
[3273]A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He
[3275]may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-~
[3277]SECRET Photocopy from
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[3281]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 44
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[3286]10
[3288]1
[3290]12
[3292]13
[3296]14
[3298]18
[3299]19
[3300]20
[3301]21
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[3308]29
[3310]24
[3312]SECKET 3
[3314]tions. obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one
[3315]of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother
[3316]ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in-to
[3317]see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore
[3318]tefore you go. So he may have considered that all these train-
[3319]ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-
[3320]pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.
[3322]Q Now, from what specific locations were these
[3324]operations launched?
[3326]A They were mostly launched from the«Keys.
[3328]‘Q Any other locations?
[3330]A Not to my knowledge.
[3332]Q Now, would you describe. for me the kind of hit and
[3334]run sabotage operations that were conducted?
[3335]A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against
[3336]the Texaco refinery.
[3337]_Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?
[3338]A What used to be the Texaco refinery.
[3339]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[3340]{Discussion off the record.)
[3341]THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
[3342]went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.
[3343]We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this
[3345]type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It
[3347]was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was
[3349]hotocopy from
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[3357]WARD & PAUL
[3359]tA
[3361]16
[3363]18
[3365]19
[3367]20
[3369]22
[3371]23
[3373]24
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[3379]HW 50955 Doecid:
[3381]1?
[3383]SECRET 44
[3385]a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as
[3387]much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out
[3389]because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type
[3391]of operation that we did.
[3393]As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn
[3395]some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we
[3397]did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and
[3399]exfiltrations.
[3400]Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?
[3401]A Not to my knowledge.
[3402]Q Was it impractical to use the base there for --
[3403]A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that
[3405]I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him
[3407]back. He wouldn't walk. -
[3411]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[3412](Discussion off the record.)
[3414]MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[3416]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[3418]Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out
[3420]| ofthe Kéys other than what you have just described?
[3421]A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage
[3423]kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained
[3425]sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down
[3427]crank cases. Things of this nature.
[3429]One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage
[3431]SEC R ET Photocopy from
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[3435]32204971 Page 46
[3438]SECRET is
[3441]: 1 all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our
[3442]0 !
[3443]: 2 | own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We
[3444]: ° contracted with an American firm for that. And.we shipped
[3445]8 4
[3446]° 4 ; it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.
[3447]8 The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the
[3448]6 automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking
[3449]? down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have
[3450]8 ; everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive
[3451]9 equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because
[3452]16 : Castro didn’t hve the money to buy it and they weren't going ta
[3453]| | ;
[3454]it | extend the credit. |
[3455]2 le The railroad system was in total disaster. The © |
[3456]< a
[3457]: 1s | Soviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus
[3459]5 14 : the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment
[3460]5 because they were used to good American equipment. And these
[3461]16 were principal targets that we were trying to get to. -
[3462]1? . Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of
[3463]18 : any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run
[3464]3 19 from a base in the United States?
[3465]: 20. A No.
[3466]3 21 i Q I know there has been some paramilitary training
[3467]g
[3468]z *2£ | in the United States.
[3469]a i
[3470]j 25 A .Oh, yes.
[3471]: 24 | Q In connection with other operations.
[3472]5 25 | A Oh, sure.
[3474]Photocopy from
[3477]H :
[3478]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[3480]HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 47
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[3486](>)
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[3494]22
[3496]23
[3498]410 First Sirecl, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
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[3502]24 |
[3504]SECRET 46
[3506]Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that
[3508]were actually run out of the United States?
[3510]A No.
[3512]Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique
[3513]situation.
[3515]A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.
[3517]Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in
[3519]Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as
[3521]the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.
[3523]A That is right.
[3524]Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
[3525]A .Well, we had.-- honestly, everything from a canoe
[3527]up. to three to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers,
[3528]rubber boats. We had a number of craft in, say, .the 27 to
[3530]45 foot. length. And they looked Like real tubs. They were
[3531]painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but
[3532]they had’ the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any-
[3533]thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under-
[3534]water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy.
[3536]Q Did these craft operate under non-official cover
[3538]in the Miami area?
[3540]A Yes.
[3542]Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one
[3543]firm?
[3545]A No. Variety.
[3547]Photocopy from
[3549]SEC RET | . Gerald Ford Library
[3551]HW 50955 DoclId:32204971 Page 48
[3554]SECRET 7
[3556]Photocopy from
[3558]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[3560]|
[3561]$ i Q Fishing companies?
[3562]: ° | A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine
[3563]< ° supply. In all, I think during the period that the station
[3564]2 it
[3565]“ * ( and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non-
[3566]7 official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.
[3567]6 Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any .-|
[3568], legitimate commercial activities?
[3569]& A Not to my knowledge, no.
[3570]9 - Q None of them -- were any of them in competition with |
[3571]7 firms in that area?
[3572]am A These are probably what we would call devised
[3573]3 12 | facilities. They were probably registered with the State of
[3574]< 13 | Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one
[3576]: a was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of |
[3577]15 | existence and started up a new one. |
[3578]16 | Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running
[3580]~ these operations?
[3581]18 A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as |
[3582]3 19 I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
[3583]S
[3584]: m0 | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
[3585]3 el | under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.
[3586]: ze | Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He
[3587]Z 25 i came back -- he might come back once a month,.or something
[3588]: 4 | like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks
[3589]3 25 if he got some time off.
[3591]HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 49
[3593]SECRET
[3595]g
[3596]: 1 Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were
[3597]@ | actually stationed full-time in the Keys.
[3598]$ ° | A Oh, yes. Oh, sure.
[3599]S i
[3600]* & | Q Were there any operations run out of the United
[3601]° | States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
[3602]6 | sugar or anything of that sort?
[3603]F
[3604]? | A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the|
[3605]8 | Puerto Rican thing?
[3606]9 A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind. |
[3607]i ;
[3608]10 | Would you describe that for me?
[3609]ii}. A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of |
[3610]2 1é | opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar
[3612]: 13 |. to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to
[3613]t
[3614]: 14 | it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or
[3615]i :
[3616]16 | something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.
[3617]16 | In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
[3618]17 | drydock or wherever it was, they..had. ta remove the sugar and
[3619]18 | put it in the. warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came
[3620]3 19 | up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -~- there was
[3621]: 20 | a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to
[3622]3 et put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
[3623]3 Re acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the
[3624]a |
[3625]: 20 | individual, and some of this was done. And then when it
[3626]: 24 leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar
[3627]3 25) firm buy it back from the Soviets. photocopy from
[3628]Libra
[3629]| SECRET Gerald Ford rv |
[3631]HW 50955 DoclId:32204971 Page 50
[3633]SECRET 1s
[3635]|
[3636]8 7 |
[3637]: . Q Bought it back from the Soviets?
[3638]8 | A Yes.
[3639]3 .
[3640]: “ MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[3641]é 4 (Discussion off the record.)
[3642]° ! MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[3643]é | BY MR. MANFREDI: |
[3644]7 Q Are there any other operations in which crops were
[3645]8 | -- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?
[3646]9 A No. No.
[3647]16 | Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? |
[3648]sae | A In Cuban products?
[3649]2 ie Q Yes. i
[3651]: +5 A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in
[3652]: i4 those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.)
[3653]25 The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total, |
[3654]16 chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have
[3655]i” anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.
[3656]16 There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around
[3657]9 19 with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of
[3658]j 20 experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.
[3659]3 ai I forget -~ several other European and American companies that
[3660]: 22 | had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—
[3661]wl i
[3662]: 23 | ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.
[3663]; 24 Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to
[3664]3 25 Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it
[3665]SEC RET Photocopy from
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[3672]WARD & PAUL
[3676]19 3
[3678]20
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[3682]22
[3684]29
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[3696]on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too
[3698]high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in
[3700]Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin
[3702]and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type
[3704]of thing.
[3706]So he was helping us all along the line and
[3708]this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this
[3710]type of. thing.
[3712]But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we
[3714]didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade
[3716]and cut off his sources of supply.
[3718]Q
[3720]A
[3722]Q
[3724]A
[3726]Q
[3728]When was the Miami Station established?
[3729]As a station?
[3731]Yes.
[3733]I think in September 1961.
[3735]And that was several years before you became involved
[3737]in Cuban matters?
[3739]WA
[3741]Q
[3743]Yes.
[3745]Do you know of any other facilities of that nature
[3747]within the United States, Agency facilities?
[3749]A
[3751]Q
[3753]A
[3755]Q
[3757]A
[3759]You mean, targeted against the opposition?
[3760]Yes.
[3761]A station as such?
[3763]Yes.
[3765]No. You have some communications facilities that
[3767]you really call stations because here again, they are not
[3769]SE Cc RET f Photocopy from
[3771]Gerald Ford Library
[3773]32204971 Page 52
[3776]Phane (Area 202) 544-6000
[3778]WARD & PAUL
[3782]416 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[3783]fay)
[3786]HY 50955 Doclrd
[3788]SECRET 51
[3790]directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of
[3792]overseas communications.
[3794]Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and
[3796]Office of Security officers, and so forth.
[3798]A Right.
[3800]Q But I am talking about actual stations.
[3802]A Operating stations, no.
[3804]Q This is the only such station in the United States
[3806]a
[3808]as far as you know, is that correct?
[3810]A Right.
[3812]Q And was this station established to deal primarily
[3814]with Cuban activities?
[3816]A Yes.
[3818]Q Cuban-reiated matters? ; |
[3819]A With Cuba, period.
[3821]Q Did it have, when it was established, any other
[3823]responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?
[3825]A Not to my knowledge.
[3826]Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?
[3827]A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other
[3829]countries in the Hemisphere.
[3831]Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
[3832]activities, what was the size or the number of personnel
[3834]attached to that Station?
[3836]A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a
[3838]couple ; SEC R er . Photocopy from
[3840]Gerald Ford Library
[3842]:32204971 Page 53
[3844]SECRET =
[3846]|
[3847]3 i couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
[3848]: 2 Agency, plus I don't ‘know how many contract employees,
[3849]: ° | independent contractors, probably another 200 minimum. It was
[3850]3
[3851]° * ; obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its
[3852]i
[3853]6 : height it had over 500 people in it.
[3854]6 | Q Full-time Agency people?
[3855]7 | A No, no,
[3856]e 9 Combination of contract and --
[3857]9 | A And full-time, yes. A regular employee we calli a start
[3858]| !
[3859]10 | employee. |
[3860]it | Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract
[3861]: 12 people? |
[3862]1s A Yes. |
[3863]Q 1
[3864]3 14 | Q Even though he was located down in the Keys? |
[3865]i
[3866]is A Oh, yes. 7
[3867]16 Q And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
[3868]i? i Miami? Physical facilities.
[3869]18 A Well, they were located on the south campus of the
[3870]3 ig University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at
[3871]: 20. the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained
[3872]: a1 | unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn
[3873]: ze well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the
[3874]Fi
[3875]: Ro Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.
[3876]: 24 Q Official cover?
[3877]: 25 | A No. Non-official. ‘ photocopy from
[3878]| d Ford Library
[3880]| . : Geral
[3881]|
[3883]SECRET
[3885]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page i4
[3887]Phone (Area 202) 544-6600
[3889]WARD & PAUL
[3890]He
[3893]13.
[3895]19
[3897]20
[3899]24
[3901]410 First Strcet, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003
[3902]a
[3903]aw)
[3905]Pas)
[3907]. for- yours ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts.
[3909]SEVREI | 53
[3911]Q Non-official cover. What was the cover?
[3912]A It was a commercial cover. It was called -- the first}
[3913]one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a
[3915]President and Vice President, normal corporate setup.
[3917]Q Engaging in any business? |
[3918]A No. i
[3919]Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,
[3921]how long could a non-official cover last?
[3922]A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research
[3923]activities. Funded -- it:is a giant mechanism when you put i
[3925]one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,
[3927]QO Yes, I understand. |
[3928]i
[3929]A So it was a research activity and’ the only people that
[3930]ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You
[3931]know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept
[3932]any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
[3933]type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And, out of.
[3935]this oney thing, of course, then we were running these innumera-
[3937]ble-other™ covers with different activities. The guard
[3938]force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, Sami lat
[3939]to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think
[3940]that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the.
[3942]Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other
[3944]Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.
[3946]s EC R ET ; Photocopy from
[3948]Gerald Ford Library
[3950]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 55
[3952]Phone (Arca 202) 544-6000
[3953]rau)
[3955]WARD & PAUL
[3956]be
[3957]tA
[3959]19 |
[3960]20,
[3961]al
[3963]22
[3965]410 Kirst Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 200023
[3967]SECRET . 54
[3969]Q And this particular Station, then, was under the
[3971]supervision of the group we have been discussing?
[3972]A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.
[3974]Q When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume
[3976]responsibilities for the Miami Station?
[3978]A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the
[3979]Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western
[3981]Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division. |
[3983]Q Is there presently a Miami Station?
[3985]A Oh, yes.
[3987]Q And how large is it at the present time?
[3989]A Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the
[3990]Cuban Operations, I don't know how large it is at the present
[3991]time because we are in one of these periods. where: we -are
[3993]reassigning people, .5ut I think by the end of this fiscal year
[3995]therevare going to be between 11 and 14 people.
[3997]Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions
[3998]were being performed by the Miami Station?
[4000]A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. [I
[4001]think I have lined them out at:one time <---collection of
[4003]positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this
[4005]type of thing. Covert action.
[4007]Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in
[4009]the deposition?
[4011]Photocopy from
[4013]A Yes.
[4014]. Gerald Ford Library
[4016]| SECRET
[4018]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 56
[4020]Photocopy from
[4022]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[4024]| SECRET 5s
[4025]|
[4026]o
[4027]3 1 |
[4028]z | Q Which of these activities, if any of them were
[4029]a 2
[4030]& | actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?
[4031]& 3 i
[4032]2 i A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably
[4033]Z a |:
[4034]| counterintelligence. |
[4035]5 |
[4036]| Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence |
[4037]6 |
[4038]| activities in the Miami area? |
[4039]7 | |
[4040]i A Yes, sir.
[4041]8 | a
[4042]| Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- _
[4043]| |
[4044]9 | intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting |
[4045]10 | in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? |
[4046]Li -
[4047]it | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I
[4048]3 12 | recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent tha
[4049]| |
[4050]. 16 | came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in witha |
[4051]< 14 | |
[4052]3 number of other people. When she hit the -~ they had a recep-
[4053]15 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.
[4054]16 | The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there. and.
[4055]i” we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration
[4056]18 | and\. Naturalization Service cover. When the EW people did the
[4057]Q 19 | preliminary interrogation of these people they had ta fill
[4058]g 20 | out forms, where. were you born, this type of thing, biographic4
[4059]3 el type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our peopte who would,
[4060]3 | |
[4061]3 RE look at the forms and based on previous experience or what i
[4063]“ i .
[4064]3 £5 | they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they |
[4065]2 a4 might have some information of intelligence value, they would
[4066]5 - |
[4067]. £5 reinterrogate them.
[4068]| |
[4071]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 457
[4073]JH
[4075]Phone (Area 202) 544-6060
[4077]10
[4081]12
[4083]13
[4085]WARD & PAUL
[4087]14
[4089]16
[4091]17
[4093]18
[4095]19
[4097]20
[4099]ai
[4101]22
[4103]23
[4105]24
[4107]ALO Ciest Sirget, S.&., Washington, 0.0. 20003
[4109]25
[4111]HW 50955 DoclId:
[4113]1
[4115]ao Ss PRES 8 56
[4117]It was in this manner that this gal came to our
[4118]knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined
[4119]that obviously she was receiving messages and she was |
[4120]sending messages. So along with the Bureau we put a surveillance
[4121]on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and |
[4123]H
[4124]indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock |
[4125]or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found
[4126]it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that
[4128]was cen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved
[4130]in.
[4132]Q Were there many activities: of that type?
[4134]A Not really. You have got to remember that the |
[4135], f
[4137]Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large
[4138]q
[4140]squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-
[4142]thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of
[4143]hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-
[4144]tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from --'
[4146]in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
[4147]which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting
[4148]to Case Officers and they would report on things in the
[4149]community, of people they thought were suspect and this type |
[4150]of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
[4151]and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved
[4153]in CI activity.
[4155]Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI
[4157]SECRET Photocopy from
[4159]Gerald Ford Library
[4161]32204971 Page 58
[4163]Phone (Area 202} 544-6006
[4165]WARD & PAUL
[4167]Lee
[4169]al
[4171]Be
[4173]25
[4175]24
[4177]446 First Siteet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4179]25
[4181]SECRET 9
[4183]activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-
[4184]whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability
[4186]to properly staff the thing?
[4188]A Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot
[4190]of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section
[4192]of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the PBI overseas is
[4194]known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy
[4195]the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers
[4196]from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a
[4198]relationship there that had gone over a period of years
[4200]between the Agency and the Bureau.
[4202]MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.
[4203](Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of-
[4205]the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this
[4207]same day.)
[4209]Photocopy from
[4210]Gerald Ford Library
[4212]SECRET
[4214]HWY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 59
[4216]TCC INNAING 3 BLS Li
[4220]3
[4222]8 1
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[4232]& 4
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[4236]8
[4237]9
[4238]10 }
[4241]7 12}
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[4247]a 13
[4249]e
[4251]it
[4253]= 14
[4254]15
[4255]16
[4256]17
[4257]18
[4259]n 19
[4261]S
[4263]6 20
[4265]a
[4267]3 21
[4269]3 22
[4271]mi
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[4275]a
[4277]rd 24
[4279]Ss 25
[4281]HW 50955 Docld
[4284]i
[4285]|
[4286]i
[4287]‘t
[4288]4
[4289]|
[4292]i
[4296]i
[4297]i
[4299]i
[4300]i
[4301]i
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[4303]v
[4305]1
[4307]|
[4309]|
[4310]i
[4311]i
[4312]|
[4315]|
[4316]|
[4317]'
[4320]I
[4321]|
[4322],
[4323]i
[4325]* . SECRET | 58
[4327]AFTERNOON SESSION
[4328]Thereupon,
[4330]WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
[4331]called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA
[4332]Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary
[4333]Public, was examined and testified as follows:
[4335]EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)
[4337]BY MR. MANFREDI?:
[4339]0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the
[4341]Miami Station . Bo I understand that the Miami Station was the
[4343]largest CIA station in the world?
[4345]AL The largest CIA station in the.world.
[4347]0, At its height?
[4348]A Nothing comes anyplace close to it. |
[4349]a) I wonder if vou could describe briefly for the record
[4351]what the AMGirs were,
[4353]A Well, the AHOTS were Cuban a Cuban intelligence
[4354]organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
[4355]overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro
[4356]ever be overthrown, these neonle would be the nucleus to go into
[4357]Cuba and form a new Ministrv of the Interior.
[4359]0. Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
[4360]for Security Agency?
[4362]A Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of
[4364]Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.
[4366]Photocopy from
[4367]SEC RET : Gerald Ford Library
[4369]132204971 Page 60
[4373]Poone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4379]WARD & PAUL
[4380]bY
[4383]410 First Siszet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20063
[4385]HW 50955 Docld:
[4387]“ ad Hie os FR na
[4389]| 0. And these people were Cuban exiles?
[4391]| A. Cuhan exiles.
[4393]0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS?
[4395]i A Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures
[4397]| but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to --
[4399]i a. Go ahead.
[4401]| A, Probably closer to 159, something like that.
[4403]/ 0 Now, would that 159 persons be included within the
[4404]three to 5909 who made up the Miami Station?
[4406]A No.
[4407]0. That was over and above the personnel of the Miami
[4408]Station?
[4409]| A Right.
[4410]| 0 These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?
[4411]A. Right. WEI11, let me -- these people really were --
[4413]they were being subsidized by the Agency. They were employed
[4415]i bys tivo? cover:ycompanies, the largest of which was called.Latin
[4417]American’ Social. and Economic Résearch. Then we had another
[4419]smaller group that did the interrogating and they were under
[4420]‘another’cover, commercial cover, -- I just don't recall what it
[4421]was. But these peop.e ostensibly were employees of these whollv
[4423]owned -proprietaries of the Agency. They were duly constituted,
[4425]incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing.
[4427]0 The salaries of these people, although paid indirectly
[4429]were paid by the CIA?
[4430]Photocopy from
[4432]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4434]32204971 Page 61
[4436]|
[4438]Phane (Area 202) 544-6000
[4440]WARD & PAUL
[4442]en cn
[4444]S.£., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4446]i
[4448]416 First Sireei,
[4450]25
[4452]HW 50955 Docrd:
[4454]23 |
[4456]24 |
[4458]~ ao ie be PIE 8 0
[4460]up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?
[4462]A Right.
[4464]: AL That is right.
[4466]0. And was training provided them bv the Agency?
[4470]| 0 Oh, ves. H
[4471]A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made
[4474]‘i ‘a When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring to
[4475]ij . .
[4477]i . , |
[4478]3 debriefings?
[4480]Ho
[4482]i A. I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles
[4484]or perhaps exiles that had heen in the country whom during theiy
[4485]|
[4487]time here had acquired new information.
[4488]ra How were those ~- how and where were those debriefings
[4489]‘i . |
[4490]| conducted? |
[4491]A Well, normally the debriefings were conducted at Opa |
[4492]Loca.
[4493]0. That is the Air Base?
[4495]A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the |
[4497]reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in.
[4499]: Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had
[4500]' a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.
[4501]small rooms Like this where vou could bring people in, sit them
[4502]down, under controlled conditions,and debrief them without any
[4503]i interference and this type of thing.
[4505]0. For how long a neriod did these debriefings go on?
[4507]SEC RET [ Photocopy from
[4509]Gerald Ford Library
[4511]32204971 Page 62
[4514]* a Ee Ge FRESE
[4516]3 1 i A. You mean in terms of vears?
[4517]: 2 0. Yes.
[4518]Z 5 | A. Well, I would think that I would probably say from
[4519]E 4 | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --
[4520]5 ; we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out |
[4521]6 | and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut off
[4522]y about, I quess about 1970 or '71, in that timeframe -~
[4523]8 0. I see. - |
[4524]9 A -- that stopped the flow of the refuqees, so we just
[4525]1c terminated that part of the activity.
[4526]li 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came
[4527]; 12 in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any other
[4528]é i intelligence gathering functions -- |
[4529]Q
[4530]< 1é A No.
[4531]_ : 0. In the community? -.
[4532]16 A Well, I can't give vou a real ves or no-to that. I
[4533]1" would suppose that’ there is an outside possibility they could
[4534]1é have been used to debrief people within the: community, within
[4535]_ : the Cuban community, but we had’ in the organization -- all these
[4536]3 20 : people were Cuban with the exception of we had what we call an
[4537]G C
[4538]: as : On-Site Case Officer, who was a'fulltime: staff:-emplovee and he
[4539]re eG
[4540]5 29 had a couple of assistants; including a secretarv.: These people
[4541]3 :
[4542]ul 23 were directly under his control.» Though the organization as it
[4543]E bs was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,
[4544]3 a3
[4545]5 35 but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Officer.
[4546]T o
[4547]i ; -
[4548]i from
[4549]SECRET geratd Ford Library
[4551]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 63
[4553]7 SECKET 62
[4555]3 l OF course, if these people went out and did something on
[4556]; 2 i their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.
[4557]a
[4558]g 3 You can't -- you know what they are doing during their eight or
[4559]: 4 ten hours that they are going to work evervday but once they
[4560]5 leave, we don't know what they are up to.
[4561]“ : i
[4562]6 : 0, Did they have CIA credentials? |
[4563]7 A No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this
[4564]8 commercial cover. |
[4565]9 0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these |
[4566]lo people other than in their duties - in their debriefing
[4567]i
[4568]i | capacity, I should sav?
[4569]; _ A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a
[4570]i 13 | standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence |
[4571]é a | interest or a battle, you know, anything -- economic questions,
[4572]2 La ji
[4573]25 | morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -- when.
[4575]16 these people were cebriefed and the debriefer wrote up the |
[4576]17 report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over. to the Station.
[4577]Tr } If the debriefing report contained something of positive
[4578]19 | intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
[4579]0 |
[4580]2 20 | Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot
[4581]G ;
[4582]: 21 down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be
[4583]: 25 recontacted and asked specific. questions.
[4585]u 93 | 0. Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this
[4586]: 24 | smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area?
[4587]: 95 A This was their prime purpose.
[4589]Ph to py from
[4590]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4592]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 64
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[4639]ry
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[4644]15
[4645]paws
[4646]16
[4647]17
[4648]18
[4650]3
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[4678]a How large was that particular group?
[4679]! A Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,|
[4680]I think there were about five debriefers with the support people
[4681]which would be secretaries, translators, strictly administrative’
[4683]types. I don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15
[4685]in that qroup, if there were that many.
[4686]‘ MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[4688](Off the record discussion)
[4690]BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record,
[4692]0. Before we move on to further discussion of the AMOTS |
[4694]could. vou briefly describe for. me what role the CIA plays in
[4696]|
[4697]| resettling Cuban emigres?
[4698]|
[4700]t
[4702]| |
[4704]AL CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emigres.
[4706]q. What Agency is charged with that responsibility?
[4708]a]
[4710]| A Health, Education and Welfare.
[4712]9 Does CIA play any role in that process?
[4714]HI
[4716]i A. We may assist if we are. asked but the idea of the wholle
[4718]it ~ j
[4720]| airlift was having relatives here. for somebody to claim you when
[4721]you came in so vou wouldn't become a ward of the State of the
[4723]Government, and normally when these refugees came. in, thev were |
[4727]processed through the Center and then thev had a place down on
[4728]Biscayne Boulevard thev called.Freedom House and this was, of
[4729]course, all run by HEW, and they -- if need be and they had to
[4731]stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and
[4733]care for them in Freedom House.
[4735]Photocopy from
[4737]; SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4739]32204971 Page 65
[4742]et 4 |
[4744]3 1 Then as soon as they could, of course, they-would move men
[4745]g |
[4746]; 2 | to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the
[4747]é 3 | relatives were, this type of thing, and we had nothing to do
[4748]E 4 with that whatsoever.
[4749]i
[4750]5 0. Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the
[4752]6 two droups, what was the name of that group again?
[4753]” A SASER, Latin American Social and Economic Research. |
[4754]8 : 0. We can call them LASER for short?
[4755]9 | . A. Really, they are both -- the only reason we separated |
[4756]fr
[4757]10 the two groups was for security because we had one group housed |
[4758]i
[4759]11 | over here and the smaller group was over here. Obviously we |
[4760]; le | couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so
[4761]i 13 | that is why wetook the smaller establishment to preserve some !
[4762]val cover. |
[4763]15 | Q Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged |
[4764]16 j in?
[4765]7 A WEL1, the larger group was engaged in the collection
[4766]18 | of intelligence. They compiled dossiers on the principals
[4767]. 19 | inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every
[4768]: 929 refugee that came throuch the reception center. They provided -+-
[4769]G
[4770]: 21 | they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a
[4771]: 99 | monthly newsletter based on the information thev collected.
[4772]3 i
[4773]! 23 | The information these people collected as opposed to the i
[4774]\ : 24 information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That |
[4775]3 ; |
[4776]: 95 came from -- all the information thev had came from human sources
[4777]5 |
[4778]| [ Photocopy from |
[4779]I |
[4781]; | .
[4782]SECRET Gerald Ford Library :
[4784]HWY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 66
[4786]°. SEGRE E 65 |
[4788]t
[4789]5 ‘|| or overt publications. We subscribed -- well, the proprietary
[4791]g | subscribed to a number, a great many newspapers, periodicals,
[4792]a i]
[4793]g 2}
[4794]a | Spanish language type things.
[4795]2 0 Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,
[4796]z af
[4797]j) weren't they?
[4798]5 | ;
[4799]A. I don't know if you could call it clandestine. What
[4800]6 i. ,
[4801]| did you have in mind?
[4802]7 | |
[4803]0. Well, would thev run agents in the community? |
[4804]8
[4805]| A. Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban
[4806]|
[4807]9 | ;
[4808]' communityv, ves.
[4809]10 ; . . . |
[4810]| 0. And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?
[4811]71 .
[4812]* | A. WELL, I call that human resources.
[4813], le’ : :
[4814]z i 0. All right. Where are these files now?
[4815]2 x
[4816]; 1s | A. They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of
[4817]< 14 i - |
[4818]3 “| them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We
[4819]25 | went down there several years ago just leoking through the files
[4820]16 | to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great
[4821]i
[4822]17 . . . . :
[4823]1? | information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a
[4824]Ls gal who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won
[4825]3 wa swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those
[4826]¢ oa files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't
[4827]= “ll have any pertinancy at all.
[4828]3 Re | 0. How. are the files organized? You indicated before thak
[4829]“a
[4830]ra £5 lenere is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?
[4831]g 24 | A Right.
[4832]= 26 | 0. Are there soft cover files as well?
[4833]| °
[4834]1
[4836]SEC RET (— Photocopy from
[4837]i Gerald Ford Library
[4838]XK .
[4840]HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 67
[4842]3 1
[4844]3 2
[4846]é 4
[4847]5
[4848]6
[4849]7
[4850]8
[4851]9
[4852]10
[4855], 12
[4857]a
[4861]a 13
[4863]9
[4865]: 14
[4866]15
[4867]16
[4868]17
[4869]18
[4871]~ 19
[4873]5 20.
[4875]9
[4877]3 21
[4879]3 22
[4881]ul)
[4883]: 23
[4885]5
[4887]2 24
[4889]2
[4891]= 25
[4893]SECRET ee
[4895]A Yes.
[4896]0. For each Cuban refugee?
[4897]AL No. Not for each Cuban refugee. I think, as I
[4899]recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,
[4900]we had I guess the manilla files, probably went into the tens.
[4901]of thousands, I would think.
[4903]0. Now, is there any way to determine from those files
[4905]which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens?
[4907]A No way.
[4909]0 Has there been anv effort to make such a determina- !
[4912]A. We made an effort at one time but this -- you can
[4914]become nationalized out in California and your record of
[4915]nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for
[4917]two years. That is how far thev are behind.
[4919]0, Sot take it --
[4921]A, So there is no central index vou can go to. I mean,
[4922]there is a central index vou can qo to but it.is.not current.
[4924]0. I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the
[4925]CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langlev on Cubans who
[4926]are now American citizens?
[4928]A Absolutely true.
[4930]0, Now, are any of those files likely to contain
[4932]derogatory information about the individuals. involved?
[4934]A Well, no. One of the things these people do, of
[4936]_ - ee
[4938]SEC RET Photocopy from
[4940]Gerald Ford Library
[4942]Peme-
[4944]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 66
[4946]Phone (Area 202} 544-6000
[4949]WARD & PAUL
[4951]S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4953]410 Farst Street,
[4955]HW 50955 DoclId:
[4957]-_ SECKET 67
[4959]course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from
[4960]anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a
[4961]Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people
[4962]as possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask
[4963]that all the information on that individual be assembled so that
[4964]we could do a complete target study -~ habits, you know,
[4965]everything right down the line. In case of some of the more
[4966]important ones, of course, we had psychological studies prepared
[4967]where we had enough information. But this is one of the things |
[4968]these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on the
[4971]first.mate of the -- one of the Cuban ships, then thev would
[4973]start looking through the papers or anything else to come up
[4975]with anything they could on what the guy's current activities
[4977]are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.
[4979]Q. Well, the .AMOTS were going to be the intelligence
[4980]service of Cuba?
[4982]A. Right.
[4984]@ And they obviously were going to perform some function
[4985]in addition to recruitment of agents?
[4987]A. Right.
[4989]0 I take it they were trained in counterintelligence,
[4990]gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the
[4991]traditional skills, is that correct?
[4993]A That is about right.
[4995]0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for
[4997]SEC R ET f Photocopy from
[4999]Gerald Ford Library
[5001]32204971 Page 69
[5003]Phone (Area 202) 644-6006
[5004]Gi no
[5008]cr
[5010]10
[5014]12
[5016]13
[5018]WAKO & PAUL
[5020]14
[5022]19
[5024]20
[5026]21
[5028]22
[5030]S.E., Wastinglon, D.C. 20003
[5032]24
[5034]41 Fast Steact,
[5036]25
[5038]“ ap ie es BRE 8 68
[5040]purposes other than recruitment?
[5042]A. Well --
[5044]0. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these
[5045]files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible
[5046]internal security problem?
[5048]A No. No. Thev didn't keep those types of files. We
[5049]would simply task them with through your sources what do you
[5050]have on so and so, They would not be told the reason why we
[5052]wanted the information on anvhbodyv.
[5054]0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several
[5055]million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
[5056]make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
[5057]those files?
[5059]A Well, that is right. -
[5060]0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ask
[5062]you this. I trust thet there is the possibility that some of
[5064]these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga~
[5066]tory information?.
[5067]A. I would assume so.
[5068]0. And that so much of them may -= some of the subjects
[5070]of those files mav now be American citizens?
[5072]0 And finally I take it that no effort has been made to
[5074]study that particular situation?
[5076]i
[5077]|
[5078]A Right. |
[5080]A. WE11, we did make an effort to do it at one time. |
[5082]| a
[5083]: f
[5084]SECRET "gerald Ford Library
[5086]HY 50955 DoclId: 32204971 Page 70
[5088]| +? SECRET 69
[5089]|
[5091]8 1 |) You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,
[5092]3 j
[5093]= 2 whether thev are on an island or perhaps other places, their
[5094]3 H
[5095]a 3 | names turn up on mankfests and this type of thing. Well, these
[5096]2 4 | are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards
[5097]I!
[5098]i }
[5099]| .
[5100]5 | were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
[5101]|
[5102]6 | at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
[5103]| .
[5105]7 what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-
[5106]8 | tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had |
[5107]9 | become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So <=
[5108]i |
[5109]10 | 0. Excuse me, off the record. i
[5111]li (Off the record discussion)
[5112]12 MR. MANFREDI: ‘Back on the record. |
[5113]5
[5114]x _ BY MR. MANFREDI: |
[5115]“ 4° |i |
[5116]a |
[5117]Z ia | 0. I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind
[5118]3 |
[5119]1s | where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are
[5120]“oO |
[5121]16 | presently here in Washington?
[5122]| .
[5123]19 | A The cards and what is left of the files.
[5124]18 Q. That is the soft cover files?
[5125]| A, Yes.
[5126]o 19
[5127]8
[5128]a 0. And <=
[5129]d 20
[5130]¢ 21 A TI assume they are either here or down at the
[5132]E | Records Center.
[5134]4 9 | 0, And where is the computer svstem?
[5136]5 - A You mean our machine system? We have --
[5137]3 4
[5138]3 0. The machine here that you tried to match up with the |
[5139]? 25
[5142]| SECRET Photocopy from |
[5144]Gerald Ford Library
[5146]HF 50955 Docld:32204971 Page Ti
[5148]|
[5150]i
[5151]i
[5152]i
[5153]|
[5155]i
[5157]Phone (Arex 202) $44-6000
[5158]ae)
[5160]ra
[5162]on
[5164]10
[5168]“WARD & PRUL
[5170]vA
[5172]20003
[5174]on, OC.
[5176]a
[5177]3
[5179]a
[5180]re)
[5181]my
[5182]a
[5183]a
[5186]7
[5188]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 72
[5190]“ a ie os BREE 70
[5192]information on the cards?
[5194]A Right down on the third floor.
[5196]0. That is not tke hydro system?
[5198]A Oh, no, no.
[5200]0 This is a separate -~
[5202]A. This is a complete -- onlv the Latin American Division
[5204]uses this particular system,
[5205]0. What kind of records -- «trike that.
[5207]The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev?
[5209]A, No.
[5211]n T thought they were going out in June.
[5213]A Well, okav. Thev are on the hooks until June.
[5215]Q, I see.
[5217]A But they have all been let qo. They were let go ~-
[5219]they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to
[5221]go find a job.
[5223]0. ‘Do they have any facilities, physical facilities, in
[5225]Miami at this time?
[5227]A no.
[5229]0 So there are no records in Miami?
[5231]A No. No. We brought all those records back here.
[5233]0. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities
[5235]in the Miami community?
[5236]AL No. No.
[5238]Q °« Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups?
[5240]SEC R ET ‘ Photocopy from
[5242]Gerald Ford Library
[5245]y as SECKE! ‘4
[5247]3 1 i A. Hot to my knowledge.
[5248]z HI
[5249]; 2 a) What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that
[5250]; 3 ! was not doing debriefings?
[5251]E 4 A, Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would
[5252]5 send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemi sphere
[5253]i
[5254]6 | to train some of the local services in those countries. Thev
[5255]it i
[5256]7 | served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in
[5257]B listening posts where we had audio -~ |
[5258]9 0. Foreign listening posts? |
[5259]10 | A Oh, ves, foreign, !
[5260]| 0. Any domestic listening posts?
[5261]; 12 | A No, no.
[5262]i | 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people?
[5263]Me! A I would assume -= this I cannot answer because I reall
[5264]15 don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but -
[5265]16 to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance
[5266]vy | conducted by them.
[5267]1a | “Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,
[5268]. ryt don't know where it could be.
[5269]8 co | 0. What intelligence gathering activities did thev
[5270]e
[5271]: 21 | conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
[5272]: 29 A One. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban
[5273]4 23 | communitv, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
[5274]: a4, | Castro groups and: this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
[5275]: ve and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government |
[5276]. - |
[5277]SECRET = gcronysrom |
[5279]HW 50955 DociId:32204971 Page 73
[5281]‘ ad Ee es RE 2
[5283]3 1 ‘ agencies in Miami plus’ the State government enforcement agencie
[5284]ri | . .
[5286]- = 2 | up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -~ the
[5287]g = ‘| Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
[5288]2 4 | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and thev
[5289]5 ; Started to tighten up.
[5290]6 ‘ I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing
[5291]9 i alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when
[5292]8 there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these |
[5293]oO : militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked
[5294]io | we by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, |
[5295]a i |
[5297]1 ' this type of thing.
[5298]i
[5299]16 | 0. These people were arrested?
[5300]3 oan
[5301]a i A. Oh, ves,
[5302]a 12 ii j
[5303]a ; i
[5304]a ; 0. Prosecuted?
[5305]2 14
[5306]_ A Not reallv,
[5307]le 0. Anv of them American citizens?
[5308]ia
[5309]A Not to mv knowledge. .
[5310]1?
[5311]a This would be Alpha 66 tvpe groups?
[5313]A I don't know whether this guy -- well, you know, they
[5314]19
[5315]j=]
[5316]8 are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don't
[5317]5 20. .
[5318]ao .
[5319]° i know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on
[5320]g el °
[5321]é |
[5322]g | so many charges and the was a Cuban exile that made it pig here. |
[5324]W ' He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever
[5325]< 23 ; ; .
[5326]5 ‘ served any time or not I don't know. ..I know he was convicted
[5327]3 24 © °
[5328]3 . but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. a7
[5331]| ‘Photocopy from
[5332]1 SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5334]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 7f4
[5336]fay
[5338]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[5340]16:
[5342]li:
[5344]12 om
[5346]WARD & PAUL
[5347]tH
[5350]19
[5352]22
[5354]S-E., Washingioa, D.C. 20003
[5356]23
[5358]24
[5360]410 First Street,
[5362]25
[5364]20.
[5366]21:
[5370]i
[5372]|
[5373]|
[5374]|
[5377]4 SECRET rs
[5379]I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went
[5381]to jaul or not.
[5383]a Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
[5384]Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS
[5386]engage in?
[5388]I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest
[5390]|
[5391]A Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence -- |
[5393]at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents |
[5394]0. Cubans were? |
[5395]A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well |
[5396]on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
[5397]young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. and I don't
[5399]-- well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to
[5401]identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.
[5403]|
[5404]|
[5406]Q Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau?
[5407]A With the Bureau, ves.
[5408]0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
[5410]in a better position to do it?
[5412]A Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big
[5413]factor.
[5415]0. And this was conducted through the AMOTS?
[5417]A 06 CUYe@S.
[5419]0. How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
[5421]in’the community?
[5423]A. WELL, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I
[5425][ Photocopy from _
[5426]SECRET ; Gerald Ford library
[5428]HW 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 75
[5430]7 wm te PRE 8
[5432]| |
[5433]8 1 | would call a great number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did
[5434]z |
[5435]5 2 come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the
[5436]H z | Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens
[5437]: A to it because, von know, vou just -=- unless vou personally know
[5438]5 the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as
[5439]i .
[5440]3 | well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do.
[5441]9 Q What other positive intelligence gathering activities
[5442]8 were they engaging in?
[5443]9 | A Well, as IT told vou, one part of them were engaged in|
[5444]ug | electronic intercept.
[5445]li | 0. - Where was that done?
[5446]; 12 |: A Down in Florda, down, in Homestead.
[5447]: a 0 This is Southeast of Homestead?
[5448]2 4
[5449]¢ 14 | A. Yes. | ; |
[5450]23 0. What ere they intercepting?
[5451]25 |
[5452]16 | A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the
[5453]on commo. for the infiltration.
[5454]1 ‘As we phased down the maritime activities, they were nade
[5455]; 1a | available to intercept Cuban. communications, | NSA‘ tasks’ them wit
[5456]g 20 the--frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications
[5457]G ;
[5458]: 21 | acts they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another
[5459]: 20 | important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,
[5460]z
[5461]4 23 | sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior
[5462]: aa | network thev covered too. put all electronic intercept coverage|,
[5463]: ze | 18 ofctate by NSA,
[5464]~ | . . . 7 . Photocopy from
[5465]an SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5467]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 76
[5469]~ SEGRE
[5471]|
[5472]3 i | Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin require
[5473]z
[5474]= 2 | Ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently
[5475]f=) Hl .
[5476]2 5 | because the common interests, -- we have a common interest in
[5477]2 |
[5478]z 4 | what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particular
[5479]BI
[5480]5 } Operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans
[5481]C | were doing, then we would task our people with that.
[5482]6 |
[5483]" i For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into
[5484]f | [
[5485]i . . '
[5486]8 ! Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then i
[5487].
[5488]9 | there was absolute silence. So nobody knew where the thing was.
[5489]HT : I
[5491]'
[5492]ic | But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the 7
[5493]{4 7
[5494]iH j
[5495]i . ‘ . . |
[5496]4 ; boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when
[5498]12 i came. back on~the-air., And this is the type of thing. As.
[5499]4 !
[5500]3 i
[5501]A 13 } a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200 |
[5503]Q i |
[5504]& ,_, | Cuban: troops.
[5505]3 Le 4 «
[5506]_ MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. .
[5507]15 |
[5508]I
[5509]- | (Off the record discussion)
[5510]6
[5511]. i MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
[5512]a
[5513]if .
[5514]i BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5515]1é 4 .
[5516]| 0. Were the Communications’ they: were intercepting”
[5518]3 | exclusively foreign communications?
[5519]6 20 |
[5520]: | BR Exclusively foreign communications.
[5521]3 21 |
[5523]5 99 | 0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus
[5524]z & .
[5525]ul of which was the United States?
[5526]= 25 |
[5527]5 A No.
[5528]a 24
[5529]e 0. These were basically Cuban Government ‘communications?
[5530]> 25 .
[5532]i i
[5534]I . SEC RET 4 Photocopy from
[5536]! Gerald Ford Library
[5538]HW 50955 Doeld:32204971 Page 77?
[5540]Poone (A\e@a 202) 941-6000
[5541]Cr to
[5543]or
[5545]WARD & PAUL
[5546]He
[5547]Ct
[5549]Be
[5551]23
[5553]410 first Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[5555]24
[5557]25
[5559]Q
[5561]A
[5563]0
[5565]where,
[5567]A.
[5569]0.
[5571]A,
[5573]0
[5575]A.
[5579](Off the record discussion)
[5581]| BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5583]intercept
[5585]in
[5587]that. Po you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,
[5589]SEGRE! re
[5590]Right.
[5591]On the Island?
[5592]Right.
[5593]Or between the Island and other locations?
[5594]Yes.
[5596]But not between the Island. and the United States?
[5598]No. Let's go off the record on that.
[5600]we
[5602]|
[5603]| |
[5604]|
[5606]To vour knowledge were the *AMOTS engaging in the
[5608]of any communications, either that facility or else-
[5609]the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?)
[5610]No. |
[5611]Of other communications?
[5613]i
[5614]No.
[5616]Is that their only intercept facility?
[5618](Nods affirmative)
[5620]Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike
[5622]| breakins or activities of thqt type other than what we have
[5624]discussed -=~
[5626]No sir.
[5628]~~ that were conducted by the AMOTS?
[5630]No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.
[5632](Off the record discussion)
[5634]Photocopy from
[5636]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[5638]HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 76
[5640]Poone {Ares 202) 544-6000
[5642]WARD & PAUL
[5643]food
[5644]in
[5646]21
[5648]22
[5650]S.E., Washinglon, OC. 20063
[5652]23
[5654]24
[5656]Adu First Sieget,
[5658]25
[5660]HW 50955 Docld
[5662]SECRET | -
[5663]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5665]0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS
[5667]has been prepared by one of vour members.
[5669]A. That is right. |
[5670]0. What is his name? |
[5672]|
[5673]A I think it is Joaquin -~ I can't remember the last |
[5675]name, The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have
[5676]to get that for you. i
[5677]0. What is the title of the study? |
[5678]A. The title of the studv -~ it is part of the niseoricall
[5679]series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled “the
[5680]AMOT Organization.” |
[5681]Q What is the historical series of the Miami Station?
[5682]A “It was done when-Paul Hennessey was down there. What
[5683]we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is eet aside
[5685]what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things
[5687]the station might do or that might occur in the station personneh
[5689]wise, this type of thing, and then these things are written.
[5691]|
[5692]0 I see.
[5693]A At intervening periods of time.
[5694]0 When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?
[5695]A. XI think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68.
[5696]0. Tt is a fairlv lengthy document, isn't it?
[5697]A, Yes. I
[5698]Q And purports to be a fairly complete history of the |
[5700]SECRET shotocony rom
[5702]Gerald Ford Library
[5704]132204971 Page 79
[5706]SECKET “
[5707]c . ‘
[5708]3 | activities of the AMOTS?
[5709]3 L
[5710]= 2 A. It starts back in 1959 when we first started using
[5712]i 3 | this gent..
[5713]2 4 Q First started using what? |
[5714]I ; .
[5715]5 A. First started using, I forget what his name was. |
[5716]H ;
[5717]6 | 0. I see. Is it a chronological studv of their activi-
[5718]i i
[5719]too, |
[5720]7% | ties? |
[5721]i
[5723]B | A . Yes. |
[5724]9 a And you have a copv of that in your custody?
[5725]|
[5726]|
[5727]| A Yes.
[5728]10 | es |
[5729]t
[5730]1 0." I would like to see that’ document. And we will try |
[5731]and obtain it through Hank Knochets office. |
[5732]2 12 | |
[5733]2 H
[5734]* 13 A, Okav,. {
[5735]3 iH i
[5736]5 14 | 0. Excuse me just for a minute.
[5737]3
[5738]vel (Off the record. discussion)
[5739]Lo . |
[5740]- MR. MANFREDI: On the record. |
[5741]rT | BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would -- let me ask vou |
[5742]1a il this. There have heen some allegations in the press that
[5743].
[5744]. - . I
[5745]19 | prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents |
[5746]E | of the CIA.
[5747]3 20
[5748]: Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join
[5749]2 eL ;
[5750]5 | us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the
[5751]2 22
[5752]“ Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the things
[5753]= 23 ,
[5754]5 2 | had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn |
[5755]= 4 il |
[5756]S | the examination over to him for whatever time he needs. |
[5757]< 25
[5758]; |
[5759]| SE ¢ RET ‘ Photocopy from |
[5760]' Geraid Ford Library
[5762]HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 60
[5764]~) “TS aE
[5766]MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, “%eorge.
[5768]944-0000
[5770]BY “MR. OLSEN:
[5772]202)
[5773]a
[5775]0, Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin-
[5777]Col
[5779]‘ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,
[5781]Phone (Area
[5783]A
[5784]ed .
[5785]by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your
[5786]contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
[5787]withing this countrv on benalt of the Agency? ;
[5788]7
[5789]A Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff |
[5790]8 |
[5791]which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and tha
[5792]g
[5793]Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in |
[5794]16 ae . . .
[5795]a varietv of intelligence collection and operations. |
[5796]Li
[5797]0 Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? |
[5798]4 le .
[5799]3 A. Desmond Fitzgerald. |
[5800]3 13 . _
[5801]3 9, And who was his immediate superior? i
[5802]< one H
[5803]° _ A. Dick Bissell. @ixcuse me. No. At that time it was |
[5804]““ Dick Helms. He was the DEP.
[5805]16 _
[5806]0 Neputy Director for Plans?
[5807]‘ A Deptuty Nirector for Plans. i
[5809]is . . .
[5810]~ 0 What period of time are we talking about now?
[5811]- 19 . . og
[5812]2 A. We are talking in the neriod of 1963 to 1965.
[5813]: 20 |
[5814]as MR, MANFREDI: Off the record.
[5815]= a1 2 (Off the record discussion) ‘
[5816]3 22 | _ -
[5817]: : BY MR. OLSEN:
[5818]a 23 .
[5819]1 ee 0 So vou were not involved in this Special Activities
[5821]Group during the 1959 to ‘61 period?
[5823]PDO Cast Staves
[5825]pa
[5827]A NO. .
[5828]Photocopy from
[5830]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[5832]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page #1
[5834]i
[5835]. . . Le . . !
[5836]= 4 Or the period leading un to the Bav of Pigs? i
[5837]& 7 i
[5839]+ aA. NO. |
[5841]ws mo: . |
[5842]‘ i a And vou were not involved in this program at all during
[5843]g 3 4 i
[5844]~ “f . ‘ = . . * {
[5845]2 i the same time that HE. Howard Hunt was involved in it?
[5846]A NO.
[5847]3 .
[5848]0 Do vou know what the cosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in:
[5850]connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the
[5851]7 .
[5852]- period of 1959 to 'S1?
[5853]5.
[5854]Ae To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert
[5856], Action Staff dealing in propaganda.
[5858]0, Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in
[5860]this country?
[5862]3 : A No. Cuban people aproad.
[5863]2 13
[5864]2 0. And what-was his connection with the planning for the :
[5865]z . '
[5867]; Bay of Pigs? :
[5868]5 A. I would have to review the record to reallv answer
[5869]1é |
[5870]that. I don‘t know.
[5871]a . |
[5872]a Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami
[5873]““ area? |
[5874]+ 19 . ; - . :
[5875]3 ; A He commuted quite a bit. '
[5876]& £0, a .
[5877]a 0 Between Washington and -- :
[5878]i 21. Sys eee
[5879]= : A Washington and Miami. i
[5880]= ‘| i
[5882]‘ A 0. “~~ and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early :
[5883]Gs ‘ . te
[5884]j Bo 1612
[5885]3
[5886]E a. Right.
[5887]2 25 | ;
[5888]So a Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his
[5890]SEC RET Photocopy from
[5892]Gerald Ford Library
[5894]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 62
[5898]1, . published materials that he was the person who was in charge of
[5900]2 | organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which
[5902]02) 544-6000
[5904]2
[5906]|
[5907]3 i . , . . :
[5908]z 3 | would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall
[5909]< |
[5910]2 |
[5911]z 4 (| where that was?
[5912]5 3, That could be auite true.
[5913]6 0 Have vou reviewed, Mr, Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
[5914]% files relating in anv wav +o the Cuban operations and particu-
[5915]3 ‘ larly with reference to whether they reflect anv contacts
[5916]5 between the Aqency and Frank Sturgis?
[5917]ae A. Yes. .
[5918]ya 0. Or Frank Fiorini?
[5919]aa! A There is no relationship.
[5920]a _ 0 Ts it vour testimony that the records and files of
[5921]z - the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
[5922]2 AS .
[5923],2.. nature with Frank Sturgis?
[5924]ls A. To mv knowlecgde that is true.
[5925]_ Q I take it from that that vou are emphatic in your
[5926]7 testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency?
[5927]sa A, Extremely emphatic.
[5928]i .
[5929]3 i
[5930]g 0 And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
[5931]ea) 20 .
[5932]Z 2 he was never a contract aqent of the Agency?
[5933]3 i
[5934]Z A, Exactly.
[5935]z 22
[5936]“ 0. Do vou know whether he ever served in the capacity
[5937]oO
[5938]- Pa) .
[5939]R 5 . of being an informer or informant to the Agency?
[5940]3 4;
[5941]3 ; A. It is possible that he could have been a source.
[5942]+ 25 i
[5944]SEC RET ; Photocopy from
[5946]Gerald Ford Library
[5948]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 63
[5950]fay ie “SA Be
[5952]H
[5953]¢ : . |
[5954]2 1 ! a YOu mean a source of --
[5956]i ~ tl
[5957]3 | _ ; .
[5958]= 2 4 Source of information of another aqent. Another
[5959]a H
[5960]3
[5961]é 3 | agency agent. H
[5962]2 ‘|
[5963]Z 4! 0. Do the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?
[5964]A :
[5965]; i
[5966]fe a To my knowledde I don't recall anvthing like that but |
[5967]w ‘ . .
[5968]é it is entirely possible chat shat could have happened without
[5969]7 » being a matter of record.
[5970]é i
[5971]4 i
[5972]al . . . }
[5973]8 ia Do the files of the Agency reveal anv instance what-
[5974]q © ever in which Frank Sturcis was ever asked to undertake anv.
[5975]i
[5976]Ve | kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?
[5977]ore -
[5978]aah t
[5979].. | 3, To my knowledge, nothing. . ;
[5980]doo i
[5981]4 i
[5982]rail ia Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence
[5983]! Le 3 OS
[5984]= 7 : i
[5985]N iz ‘ whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or
[5986]5 _ indirectly bv the Aqencv?
[5987]3 ac .
[5988]_ x To mv knowledge, no.
[5989]va : 4, Now, when vou sav “to mv knowledge, no", in answer |
[5990]16 i
[5991]: i
[5992]2 |
[5993]_, _ to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that ;
[5994]1 . '
[5995]af : i
[5996]- you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the
[5997]is ‘ i
[5998]te . : i
[5999]basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files?
[6000]- 1¢ i
[6001]3 i -
[6002]& ' A On Frank Sturgis, ves. i
[6003]3 BO 4
[6005]> i 0 Okav. During the vceriod of time that vou were with
[6006]21 |
[6007]| the Sveciai Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,
[6008]3 22 | sO ~
[6009]+ : can vou tell us when that becan in 1963?
[6011]5 | aA When the Special Activities Group =~
[6012]3 £24 5 ;
[6013]3 i o No. When vour contact with the Special Activities
[6014]7 258 ij
[6016]hotocopy from
[6017]SECRET Gerald Ford Library i
[6019]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 64
[6021]3 2 Group began?
[6022]2
[6023]3
[6024]Ps 2 5 A It began -- well, it becan around June of '63.
[6025]3 |
[6026]2 3 i "0, Now, with particular reference to the last half of
[6027]< i .
[6028]5
[6029]2 ‘|
[6030]2 2 | 1963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been
[6031]5s ‘involved, were there a creat many Cubans in the southern United
[6032]2 | States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being
[6033]7 « sponsored by the Agency?
[6034]3 By Wellm vou mean Acencyvy sponsored fronts?
[6035]a
[6036]H
[6037]ie 4 a Yes.
[6038]~~ i AL The Agency subsidized these-fronts in an effort to
[6039]+3 1, have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro
[6040]ar
[6041]19 |, factions. Obviouslv the ieaders-of the fronts knew that the
[6042]d we |
[6043]2 y= 4 CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
[6044]a av >
[6045]Q ‘
[6046]< .. , fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agencv
[6047]3 ae .
[6048]-- i or the 0.S. Government.
[6049]a :
[6050]a 0. But when vou say "supposedly," does the fact appear
[6051]i&
[6052]~ =~ to be otherwise?
[6053]3 _ WEL1, based on mv experience with the Cubans and this
[6055]tg i type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
[6056]“4 ao
[6057]$ og it wouldn't take long for “nowledqe of any subsidy to surface
[6058]g i
[6059]2 a tt itself.
[6060]al
[6061]z 2! 0 Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.
[6062]2 a | ' .
[6063]5 53 | Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be
[6064]z os
[6065]a bd j involved in the CIA orqanizations?
[6066]a Kt?
[6067]2 a Yes. Photocopy from
[6069]HW 50955 Doeld: 32204971 Page 85
[6071]og tn “HE Ge
[6073]SECRET
[6075]| Gerald Ford Library
[6078]7 0 And again with particular reference to the Miami
[6080]2 ; area?
[6082]A, Yes.
[6084]Phone (Arce 202} 544 uooa
[6086]0, Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere
[6088]in the United States? I am asking now particularly with
[6090]4 | reference to New Orleans.
[6091]yo8 A There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am
[6092]oo _
[6093]= ; really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was
[6094].) |
[6095]i
[6096]> § Sort of a sideshow to Miami,
[6097]“4
[6098]-. 4 a But the same is -- it is possible that some of the
[6099]a ,
[6100]-- 7 Same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded
[6102]4
[6103]ai by the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?
[6104]3 ~~
[6105]by 2 A I don't know if I can answer that, whether they had
[6106]F aed
[6107]3 7 . . :
[6108]< -. | the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for
[6109]2 —_=
[6110]2d subsidizing the organizations in Miami was carried out through
[6111].. | New Orleans.
[6112]ar ie Well, can vou he more specific about what vou mean
[6113]‘i
[6114]_. . by that?
[6115]oa A, Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we
[6116]3 _. | were subsidizing there had *o he some ostensible source of
[6117]5 omnyl
[6118]: 1 income for them to continue what they were doing. A great
[6119]2 EL i ‘
[6120]3 | number -= well, not a qreat number, but a number of select
[6121]2 223 . am
[6122]_. | people were -= well, they were selected and then they were
[6124]talked to, to pose as trustees, if vou would, or directors or
[6126]whatever vou might have of some of these organizations in order
[6128]FG bat Sitcet, SEL,
[6130]r
[6132]: SEC RET Photocopy from
[6134]Gerald Ford Library
[6136]HY 50955 Doclda: 32204971 Page 66
[6138]S
[6140]& -
[6142]so) :
[6146]a
[6150]a
[6152]~ 92
[6154]a 2
[6156]=)
[6158]is]
[6160]ed
[6164]< o
[6166]2
[6168]a =
[6169]ce)
[6170]5
[6172]3
[6173]4
[6174]a
[6175]19
[6179]3
[6183]x asd
[6185]a
[6187]z
[6192]0
[6193]7A
[6194]oe
[6195]ae)
[6197]Se) ae
[6203]c
[6207]J ae
[6209]a
[6211]5 2
[6213]3 a0
[6215]3 AKG
[6219]“ 23
[6221]3
[6223]3
[6225]a ao
[6227]3 24
[6229]“
[6233]to Cubans or Cuban crouns?
[6235]a EE “GE SS. + . }
[6237]to get the funding through to the organizations. |
[6239]These people were normally prominent people and -- |
[6241]4 And did thev get funded by the Agency, then, through
[6242]the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do people?
[6244]A These well-to-do neople ostensibly would call a friendi
[6245]of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity,
[6246]and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this !
[6247]type of thing. Couid vour organization give us anv money , and
[6248]the guy. on the other end would sav, sure, we can probably lend
[6249]you $25,900 or something iike that, or donate $25,990. This is
[6250]the wav the funding went into the fronts.
[6252]a And was some of that funding arranged through veonle
[6253]in New Orleans?
[6255]A. T would =hink so. Ff helieve so,
[6257]a) Were anv of «he people in New Orleans through whom
[6258]that funding operation was effected people who turned out to be
[6260]involved in the investiqations conducted by Jim Garrison?
[6262]“RB o>) Mot to mv knowledae.
[6264]0. How about David Yerrie? Was he ever connected with
[6266]the Agency in any manner at all in providing funds or assistance
[6268]A I couldn't sav. = am just not familiar with -= we had
[6270]a great manv people shat did this.
[6272]0. How about Clay Shaw? Was Clay Shaw ever used as a
[6274]funding source? )
[6276]Photocopy from’
[6278]. SECRET Gerald Ford Library ;
[6280]HW 50955 Doecld:32204971 Page 87
[6282]eas? Gag Tod HD, fs
[6284]NS
[6286]3 7 “A, This I do not know either.
[6287]s
[6289]a
[6291]a
[6293]z zs: A This I don't know.
[6295]1
[6297]1
[6299]|
[6301]t
[6303]2 0, Pardon? |
[6304]| :
[6310]]
[6312]i
[6314]2 BY MR. MANPREDI:
[6316]5 0 Where would that information be available?
[6317]é A Well, we have a suv that used to work with me who was
[6319]o down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.
[6321]8 0, Is he in the puiiding? ;
[6322]SC A Yes.
[6323]=e a, What is his name?
[6324]+: A Bill Kent. i
[6325]le a Bill Kent! |
[6326]3
[6328]: _ A 0 Wes.
[6329]z +: BY MR. OLSEN:
[6330]2 a7 . {
[6331]_ a. Who is BilLi<e Which department?
[6332]LE |
[6333]_— A He is still with
[6334]Lé ;
[6335]i
[6336]_ BY: MR. MANFREDI:
[6337]~ i
[6338]_ on Western Hemisphere Division?
[6339]_ A No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I
[6340]. . -
[6341]2¢ think Career Management Group Staff. H
[6342]C {
[6343]>: ® - Is he officed near vou?
[6345]A No. He 1s cown in the basement.
[6346]ge _ |
[6347]3 BY MR. OLSEN:
[6348]= 22
[6349]2 5 9, Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were|
[6350]: 4
[6351]E |
[6352]z on clat were used to orovide funds to the <=
[6354]4
[6356]SEC RET Photocopy from”
[6358]- Gerald Ford Library
[6360]HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 68
[6362]Pirone (Aree 202) b44-eouG
[6364]on
[6366]Os
[6368]ind
[6369]f
[6371]o
[6372]H
[6373]39
[6374]a wie
[6375]2
[6377]a aor
[6378]5
[6379]< -.
[6380]2 is
[6382]12
[6383]A
[6384]as
[6385]tM
[6386]4 LY
[6387]a
[6388]a a
[6389]3 z£C
[6391]= a
[6392]3 Oo
[6393]s a
[6394]-
[6398]a
[6399]- o4
[6400]a ee
[6401]= ne
[6404]HW 50955 DoclId
[6406]ceo? ithe et OG, Hes
[6408]Ae Oh, ves.
[6409]0. ~~ to the Cuban movements?
[6411]|
[6412]A. Yes.
[6413]0. Mo vou know whehter -- do vou know the identity of anv
[6415]t
[6417]of them in New Orleans?
[6418]A No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took .
[6420]llace in New Orleans.
[6422]2. T take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediar,
[6425]for providing funds so the Cuban fronts?
[6427]A. The files that Tlhave don't reflect it.
[6428]0 I think we covered this already just a few minutes aga
[6430]|
[6432]but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. :
[6433]i
[6435]. i
[6439]TI understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963
[6441]that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban neopie in the southera
[6442]- i
[6444]United States, salked ahout and believed that thev were invoived
[6445]in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? i
[6446]A That is right.
[6448]“0, Was it also vour understanding and vour impression
[6450]that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in
[6452]the southern United States about plans or prospects for the
[6454]assassination of Fidel Castro?
[6456]~- t
[6458]I don't think there was -- you have ,;
[6460]o
[6462]I would sav no.
[6464]got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost :
[6467]their homeland, their 7o0ssessions, they lost everything and they!
[6468]ad !
[6470]: i
[6472]blamed it all on one man. 1
[6474]Photocopy from
[6476]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[6478]132204971 Page 89
[6480]Baoan (Arc 200) ba cO0u
[6481]on nN
[6483]Cr
[6485]Oo
[6487]2
[6489]ALL
[6491]WA REE tk
[6493]Ch
[6497](is
[6499]fee
[6500]Te]
[6502]2OO0 3
[6504]ton, bu.
[6506]2
[6508]4
[6510]Lattoed, £
[6512]a
[6514]Vhte dV vena
[6516]ba
[6517]on
[6519]HY 50955 Docld
[6521]oud Be Ge TO He O
[6522]0, That is Fiedl Castre?
[6523]A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do
[6525]anything they could to get rid of him.
[6527]0, Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among
[6528]these Cubans?
[6530]A I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probably was
[6531]@ lot of talk about thar.
[6533]0. Nid vou participate vourself in the overhearing of
[6535]such conversations?
[6537]A. No.
[6539]0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to
[6540]you?
[6542]A Well, it was -- TI really don't remember what the
[6544]source of it was but I Snow in my discussions with people at the
[6545]Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing
[6546]that this subject alwavs came up. What were they going to do
[6547]with Fidel? How are thev coing to get rid of him and this type
[6548]of thing. I don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the
[6549]Cuban exile community was discussina.
[6551]a® | Yes. Po vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the
[6552]Agency in 1963?
[6554]A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
[6555]‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the
[6556]DDP.
[6558]2) This is vour hest recollection --
[6560]Photocopy from
[6562]oe
[6563]SECRET sera Ford iy
[6565]:32204971 Page 930
[6567]a
[6569]wo
[6571]tia PUP} bat
[6573]Gl
[6575]on
[6577][a>
[6579]13)
[6581]6D
[6583]no
[6584]Li
[6586]ce
[6587]2
[6589]i be
[6590]“32 at
[6592]I
[6594]Oo
[6596]z
[6598]mb Datetby fsa
[6600]Tbr
[6602]HW 50955 Docld:
[6604]ee eh
[6606]A. Yes.
[6608]9 “~~ at the moment. Is it possible that he was with
[6610]Domestic Overations Division in the field of proprietaries
[6612]engaged --
[6614]A. I guess vou are right, ves, I believe he was there.
[6616]0 Did vou personaliv know Howard Hunt?
[6618]AY NO.
[6620]0 Never met Aim?
[6622]A 0) 6©E met Aim. “hat 2s all. I can't say I know him.
[6623]Q You would not nave xnown anything about his where~
[6625]i abouts on anv particular dav, then. Is that true?
[6626]A. Can we go off the record?
[6628]{Off the record discussion.}
[6630]THE WITNESS: bet‘s qo hack on the record.
[6632]| BY MR, OLSEN:
[6634]F a I would like to have it on the record.
[6635]; A Do you have a particular day?
[6636]0. Mo. Io am just asking vou if vour acquanitance with
[6638]Hunt was such that von would have known of his whereabouts on
[6640]any Darticular dav.
[6642]A. NO.»
[6643]ra Was it very frequentlv that you ever saw him?
[6644]i ag ; _
[6645]iH A Oh, I would see nim in the halls, this type of thing,
[6647]t
[6649]but -- bump into hin vrerhans downtown on the street.
[6650]0. Sut vou would have no occasion for. knowing from one
[6652]SEC RET . Photocopy from
[6654]Gerald Ford Library
[6656]32204971 Page 91
[6658]aid they as GR Shes , 7 H
[6660]3 - | day to the next where he was?
[6661]x u
[6662]3 ‘| ‘
[6663]a 9 3 A No. |
[6664]2 ~ at |
[6665]5 i . i
[6666]2 - 0 Have vou ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf |
[6667]fas J I - ” .
[6668]2 |
[6669]3 ! . i
[6670]2 « ‘| of the Agency as to where he was on Movember 22, 1963? : !
[6672]zo: A Yes.
[6673]2) a And when dic sou conduct that inauirv?
[6674]5 il A. I have done it twice that I recall and the most recent
[6675]' . t
[6676]i i
[6677]= ; one was I guess -- I am just trying to think. Well, it wasn't |
[6678]i
[6679], = too lonq ago hecause we did have an inauirv and we obtained the:
[6680]-- | time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance whic!
[6681]7 . :
[6682]if 3 : a os : .
[6683]-- |} showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day. i
[6684]0. Was this just fairly recently?
[6685]z A Yes.
[6686]z a Io understood =rem what files I have seen, Mr. :
[6687]3 oF :
[6688], Sturbitts, that the oniv records that were available from the |
[6689]tT 1
[6690]a |
[6691]3 . I
[6692]. | Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
[6693]an ; '
[6694]_. | during the two-week pav neriod ending the 23rd of November but |
[6695]a. Hl] :
[6696]Hl .
[6697]_, | that the records were not available as to how much sick leave
[6698]ac 4 :
[6700]a5 “ or annual leave had been taken on any particular day. |
[6701]z i a. Well --. ”
[6703]: | 0 Am I mistaken?
[6704]3 £1 |
[6705]5 A As I recall. he was in a dutv status one dav and a
[6706]BRI : |
[6708]. i gick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day. i
[6709]. of ; - {
[6710]= awe | H
[6711]5 | I would have to check that with mv Budget and Fiscal Officer,
[6712]3 Ea H
[6713]3 i He is the chan that cot that for me..
[6714]2 Pas
[6716]Photocopy from
[6717]i
[6718]I
[6720]. SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[6722]HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 92
[6724]og? Ges “tet Hh an 8
[6726]I
[6727]Can vou check that for us?
[6729]3 1
[6731]= 5 A. Sure.
[6733]2  y
[6735]: 5 0. And give us the results of that? .
[6737]2 A A Yes.
[6738]. j
[6740].
[6742]a 0 Because this is much more detailed information than
[6743]6 I have heen previoulv aware is available in the files of the
[6745]9 Agency.
[6747]8 A. All right. FT will do that.
[6748]9 BY MR. MANFREDI: ,
[6749]+c a) Do vou want to make a note of that?
[6750]1 AL Let me have a piece of paper. .
[6751]_ 0. yOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts’ phone number which
[6753]; |
[6754]z jz is 351-5196. i
[6755]z _ THE WITNESS: That was 22 Movember, right?
[6756]3 le i
[6757]_ 8Y MR. MANFREDI: |
[6758]_ a That is the dav. |
[6760]. A (1963. |
[6761]ly H
[6762]=f |
[6763]_ a In response to whose inquiry was that investigation
[6765]made? |
[6767]5 A I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. [
[6768]G 20. |
[6769]S : . : |
[6770]z . don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether -- |
[6771]8 21°
[6772]3 “ Twill just have to check that. I don't know who it was. |
[6773]2 22°
[6774]Qn And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the |
[6775]a Pao) : i
[6776]5 inquiry?
[6777]3 24, |
[6778]2 A No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefull;}
[6779]7 25 H
[6780]I
[6782]§ E Cc 4 ET Photoco py from
[6784]Gerald Ford Library
[6786]WY 50955 Docld:3220497T1 Page 93
[6788]= aa Waa 8
[6790]You said there was a previous inquiry?
[6792]Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt
[6794]a vear ago,
[6796]I guess.
[6798]' who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of
[6802]About the first time these Photographs began to be
[6804]Yes, and actually I think this -= Archie's inguiry
[6806]This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm
[6808]Archie was
[6809]Chiefyof Station, London, for a long time and he apparently
[6811]made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media.
[6813]And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with
[6815]will have to check that. That is the way
[6817]did cet this through our Budget people who
[6819]the Office of Finance.
[6821]was on annual leave the day before?
[6823]Photocopy from
[6824]Gerald Ford Library
[6826]g
[6827]3 1 0
[6829]3 il
[6830]3 -
[6832]g ‘
[6833]E 4 * European Division.
[6834]5 0. When was that inquiry received?
[6835]6 A. That was about
[6836]y BY MR. OLSEN:
[6837]8 0.
[6838]9 circulated?
[6839]Wem A. Yes.
[6840]12 0} About the bums in Nallas?
[6841]sa A.
[6842]a +e
[6843]z e ; ;
[6844]2 jz ; came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe.
[6845]ed ay
[6846]3
[6848]2 at
[6849]— 0
[6850]16
[6851];, . Magazine?
[6852]_ A That is right.
[6854]19. 2
[6855]3 1
[6856]3 .
[6857]5 aa
[6858]3 20 5
[6859]: - | Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?
[6860]2 elt ,
[6861]= i a. Well, =
[6862]z RE, il
[6864]5 “ I understood it but I
[6866]s rae) ‘
[6867]3 _ || Rave the contact wit!
[6868]: 24 r ‘
[6869]_ it .
[6870]2 if 0, And that he
[6872]7 25 I
[6873]if
[6874]Hi
[6875]a
[6876]SECRET
[6877]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 94
[6879]the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that |
[6880]4
[6885]J
[6886]Hi
[6887]|
[6888]|
[6890]a
[6892]3 - A. No, He was on a duty status the day before, on sick
[6893]5 g i leave, and then on duty status ‘the following dav.
[6894]i) ij - >
[6895]oh 1
[6896]3 Hy
[6897]5 3 | BY MR. MANFREDI:
[6898]: | |
[6899]2 24 Q. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's
[6900]|
[6901]= : previous pattern with respect to sick davs had oeen?
[6902]af a  (Nods in negative)
[6903]¥ BY MR. OLSEN:
[6904]s 2 November 22, 1963, was a Fridav. When you say that
[6905]6 records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --
[6906]yr 4 A It was a Tridav., Then I was mistaken.
[6907]| .
[6908]s: 0 Does that mean he was on duty the following Monday
[6910]y
[6911]yo { OY on the next dav, Saturdav?
[6912]2 aa Ht
[6913]z ‘| - . . .
[6914]2 +2 | a No. On the following Mondav. I didn't realize the
[6915]4 ic if
[6916]3 | .
[6917]@ ,. . 22nd was a Fridav.
[6918]2 =
[6919]i a Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief
[6920]-, | memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting
[6921]_ documents vou can Zind?
[6922]_ “OA Okav.
[6923]oo! 0. AS promptly as possible on this question.
[6925]$ a I think that covers the subject matter.
[6926]3 au sl
[6927]= - : “IR. MANFREDI: I can cive you another moment if you want.
[6928]i _. | Can vou think of anvthina else?
[6929]2 Ze
[6930]3 i tie : .
[6931]3 aa MR. OLSEN: I think that is all.
[6932]= BO” '
[6933]5 aa MR, MANFREDI: Okay. Off the record.
[6934]3 a y
[6936]2 on | (Off the record discussion)
[6937]2 25
[6939]4
[6941]\ : Photocopy fro , i
[6942]i SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[6944]‘HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 95
[6946]BY MR. MANFRENT:
[6948]24 0) I am 80rryv for the interruption but over: the long
[6950]£ think Probably T saved vou some time,
[6952]d
[6954]Prune iAtas PUP) oa GOED
[6956]We are talking about newspaper editors when we wera inte
[6958]Tupted <= or when to invited the interruption, I guess fr ough
[6962]5 ' to be fair,
[6964]2
[6966]‘Is it not a fact that the Agency had some relationship vw:
[6968]3 : some prominent newsvaner officials in the Miami area?
[6970]o
[6971]= A, Yes,
[6972]sn 0. And what vas the nature of that relationship?
[6973]“ae A, Traditionally «ne Chief of Station Maintained the
[6974]= relationship with Officials of the Miami Herald, Particularly ;
[6975]2 mo . .
[6976]& HI : : =: . . . :
[6977]2 -3 i Latin: American Gtltor, as well ag relationships with Staff
[6979]a “ ;
[6980]< -: | ‘members of it, T think i+ i8 the Miami News and Stringers’ for
[6981]2 -=
[6983]he tother newspaners and ‘@riodicals Stationed in Miami.
[6985]ay What was the Purpose of those relationships?
[6987]te
[6989]Tt really couldn't sav what the prupose of the relation
[6991]Ship was, f mean, the same reason that we establish a relation-
[6994]ie)
[6996]i
[6997]C
[6999]ship with the Press-in this town. There were certain things thar
[7001]ba
[7004]: |
[7005]8 _ might come to the attention of the press involving true names
[7006]a) Bae : :
[7007]fe} : '
[7008]z ae and incidents that we falt shonld Perhaps not. be surfaced at any
[7009]= aL
[7011]Ey |
[7012]z oo | Particular time, !
[7013]2 raed ; |
[7014]= ~ - |
[7015]3 a- a) DO vou have anv xnowledge of use of the press in Miami!
[7016]= Re i
[7018]a no for Propaganda nurnoses?
[7019]= Kite
[7021]2 _ A Ho. No.
[7022]- ao i
[7024]Photocopy from
[7025]SECRET Gerald fond Library
[7027]HW 50955 Doecld: 32204971 Page 36
[7029]Eolos if ———oo 95
[7030]i !
[7031]msl. j
[7032]co ~ 1 {
[7034]3 | Q Would you know if that were the case?
[7035]wr t
[7036]x 21
[7037]a A. Mo. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was
[7038]st !
[7040]q S| ; ;
[7041]Q a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these
[7042]E £4 _
[7043]#  peodle as well as they were assigint us. |
[7044]iH i
[7045]= | i
[7046]| Q What assistance would you render for members of i
[7047]i H
[7049]J the press in Miami? :
[7050]7 | . .
[7051]: A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor |
[7052]5 | | | |
[7053]we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of
[7054]5 | !
[7055]i! areas he periodicaily visited and the Chiefs of Stations
[7056]i
[7057]12 4 _ .
[7058]# would give him background briefings and this type of thing
[7059]|
[7060]1: | oun ,
[7061]j; on the developments within a given countr;.
[7062]121 | :
[7063]3 ~ Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? |
[7065]Led : . es : j
[7066]5 ee A Predominantly, I would say probably the’ Miami '
[7067]2 _. 1
[7068]3 “" | jterald received probably a little more attention than.the
[7069]i °
[7071]“" | other papers, principally because-it was 2 Large paper and
[7072], oo
[7073]1é | their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout
[7074]~ tne Hemisphere,
[7075]“eo 3 Was he also used as a source?
[7076]VC .i
[7077]3 “ A No.
[7078]g
[7079]S H .
[7080]Q ec i 9 DO newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive
[7082]3 oO Similar briefings?
[7083]3
[7084]= 22 | 4A Yes.
[7086]vi Pa! . {
[7087]< YG 3 Ye talked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time
[7088]3 J
[7090]z a4 ; about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these
[7092]7 £1 organizations? |
[7093]Photocopy from H
[7094]i SECRET » Gerald Ford Library
[7096]HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 97
[7098]mbh 2 5 a6
[7099]g .
[7100]8 1 3
[7101]z ‘ A Well, the membership varied. As I Said, we were
[7102]“i om
[7103]$2 |
[7104]a | principally interested in the leadership of the organizations.
[7105]o i
[7107]g ; Once the organization was established and the leadership took.
[7109]Ed 4
[7110]over, then thev would take care of enlisting the, I guess,
[7111]getting membershio from the Cuban exil community to join.
[7112]6 . re : +
[7113]2 What were their functions, the fronts?
[7114]7
[7115]: A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:
[7116]8 _ ; ;
[7117]; thing of the splinter groups and get -~- as I said, it was a
[7118]g | .
[7119]political organization in exile.
[7120]is * sa. . .
[7121]9 Did they conduct any operations?
[7122]~e A No, not that I know of.
[7123]; 12 ii as tos
[7124]5 a 2 Just like a political party?
[7125]a s
[7126]a’ iz . wae
[7127]a . A Like a political party.
[7128]z
[7130]a 2 How many of these fronts were there?
[7131]a A There were several of them. i really don't remember
[7132]~€ the names of them. The FRD was one. ‘The Revolutionary
[7133]27 : ~ , :
[7134]a Democratic Front. = guess that was probably the biggest -one.
[7135]“© And’ there were some others.
[7137]3 a 3 The &Dpr?
[7138]o if
[7139]Fe u .
[7140]Q eC | EN FRD. _
[7141]fy |
[7142]3 + 9 I sée.
[7143]E 22 |! seer tees ; ; we:
[7144], i A Front Sevolutionary Democratic. It is the
[7146]a an
[7147]3 <~ i Democratic Revolutionary Front.
[7148]S|
[7149]g a | 2 All right Are these groups still in existence?
[7150]he
[7151]. A T woulé think not. I really don't know.
[7154]an
[7156]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971
[7158]SECRET Photocopy from
[7160]Gerald Ford Library
[7162]Page 98
[7164]abh 3
[7166]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7168]WARD & PAUL
[7170]. Washington, 0.C. 20003
[7172]S.E
[7174]4G Farst Strect,
[7176]jo
[7178]Ps tol
[7182]He
[7185]aH
[7187]Sa Hy “Ores OO er - 97
[7189]9 Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?
[7191]A Ho. There was but there isn't any more. There
[7192]hasn't been one there for years.
[7194]Q- When was it disbanded?
[7196]A I think the station was established around 1958
[7198]and -- perhaps it was established before that. I think it
[7200]went out of existence in 1958.
[7202]Q Do you now whv it went out of existence?
[7203]A No, = aconizt. = don't have any idea.
[7204]2 Do vou xnow what function it was nerforming?
[7205]A (Jods in negative.)
[7206]9 You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked
[7208]in the Cuban community for the CIA?
[7210]A He worked with these fronts, too.
[7211]oe) Vas he cerforming any intelligence function in the
[7212]community?
[7213]A Intellicence functions. Well --
[7214], 2 Was ne collecting information?
[7215]A Sure. If he got information that he thought was
[7217]worthwhile he would nass it on.
[7219]oe) Now, woulc ne have been considered one of the three
[7221]or 500 »~ersons emploved or assigned to the Miami Station?
[7223]aA Yes. He was a contract employee.
[7224]9 And were intelligence requirements levied on such
[7226]contract emplovees?
[7227]Photocopy from
[7229]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[7231]HW 50955 Docld:322049T1 Page 99
[7234]ep Te EE ee
[7237]i=]
[7238]3 ly . : P
[7239]Ra A Normally, the requirements are vretty standard,
[7241]gz .
[7242]3 e or they were at that time. But here again, you always have
[7243]< ran ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to
[7244]z 4 ;
[7245]be surfaced.
[7246]5 _ _ + s *
[7247]“ Q Some of these contract employees were, then, in
[7248]6 the business cf ccilecting intelligence information in the
[7249]? Cuban communities in Miami.
[7250]8 A Right.
[7251]g Q Now, I think we finished with the AMOTS but can
[7252]coon you think of any cther functions serformed by the AMOTS that
[7253]is. we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?
[7254], 1é | A Mo, not really. No.
[7255]2
[7256]i
[7257]4 lé 9 I think vou oreviously described them for me as the
[7258]a . :
[7259]3 ls eves and ears into the Cuban community.
[7260]is A Right.
[7261]1é Q And they actually had a physicai facility in Miami
[7262]1? which was their headcuarters, did they not?
[7263]1é A Exactly.
[7264]a 19 : 2 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to supe
[7265]i]
[7266]3 2C.. vise that facility.
[7267]3 22 A Yes.
[7268]2 22 | Q Now, what has happened to -the AMOTS?
[7269]mT
[7270]‘ 26 A The AMOTS were craduaily phased down and will go
[7271]= 24 | out of existence -- che AMOTS are out’ of existence, aren't
[7272]° 25 they? Isn't it the AMDUKES or -- these are the radio. people.
[7274]SECRET Photocopy from
[7276]Gerald Ford Library
[7278]HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 100
[7280]WW Sa Gs FS Be G
[7282]SECRET
[7284]HY 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 101
[7286]Photocopy from
[7287]Gerald Ford Library
[7289]oe
[7291]i 99
[7293]abh 3 8 1}
[7294]z i 9 And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?
[7295]a '
[7296]g 2
[7297]& | A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people.
[7298]g e | ;
[7299]E i 9 Thev are the ones that conducted the intercept
[7300]E a |
[7301]i for NSA?
[7302]5 |
[7303]i A Yes. The only reason we use two different names
[7304]|
[7305]6 . a : y a . -
[7306]i ais that in ¢ach ct these things in those cays we had to have
[7307]9 i .
[7308]a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the
[7309], wd
[7310]8 |
[7311]i = f
[7312]; funding.
[7313]9 :
[7314]i ) S50 AMDUKE and AMOT --
[7315]i
[7317]H A Synonymous.
[7318]i
[7319]11!
[7320]i Q -- are crvptonyms?
[7321]t
[7322]| 12 |
[7323]z A Yes.
[7324]z
[7325]7 13 | ;
[7326]= HI 9 Do the initials stand for anything other than --
[7327]é 14
[7328]~S 3B HO, Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt |
[7329]: somehody you just call downstairs and they give you a4
[7330]t
[7331]16 |; . tata: : 3 can ' :
[7332]i crypt. You con't nave anvthing to do with it. The AM happened
[7333]7 4 . ; _ 1.
[7334]i hat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.
[7335]© ‘ 3 Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for
[7336]H|
[7337]Ht ; - . . . .
[7338]a assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the
[7340]20 | political cenventions in 1968 and 1972, would vou briefly
[7341]it
[7342]o7 ' _ 7 ' . 7
[7343]| describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by
[7344]3 it
[7345]= _*2' she Agency to tne Secret Service?
[7347]- 23 | - . 3 ,
[7348]3 il aN At the recuest of the Secret Service we conducted
[7349]= 24 | name traces on incividuals whom the Secret Service wanted
[7350]. 7 craced. These includedthe emplovees of all hotels in Miami
[7351]|
[7352]|
[7354]a Tie Yon BRK Es 100
[7356]; i
[7357]sh 6
[7358]it
[7359]g i
[7360]2 i)
[7361]¢ i .
[7362]z Beach where any convention activities were to take place,
[7363]er) i
[7364]g 2!
[7365]a | emplovees of catering services, limosine service, employees
[7367]2 in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
[7368]z 4 iH
[7369]i is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.
[7370]5 I ; , ; os 7
[7371]‘ Foreign news people and media, television, radio people.
[7372]6 . ;
[7373]: Q Jere these people on whom name traces were requested
[7374]van
[7375]: all foreign nationals?
[7376]8 jj oo:
[7377]A All foreign nationals.
[7378]Q 4 ; ot : . -
[7379]' 2 “Jag there any check made to determine whether
[7380]ic | = : + pe |
[7381]i any of them were American citizens?
[7382]|
[7383]li - ; - . :
[7384]: A Ja levied on the Secret Service as a requirement
[7385]12 ; . Les a : ;
[7386]5 12 | that they have identified these people by nationality before
[7387]: 13 |
[7388]i we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time
[7389]fi HH
[7390]: 14 |
[7391]3 ~ they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens
[7392]ana which we promptly sent back to them and toid them we could
[7393]|
[7394]16 | .
[7395]Hi not trace.
[7396]Wy
[7397]aan o And this practice was Followed both in 1968 ana
[7398]a8) 1972?
[7399]34 . .
[7400]3 io A That is right.
[7401]4 t -
[7402]@ '
[7403]g 20 | 2 And where were these names traced?
[7404]3 et i A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The
[7405]z i
[7406]3 2 . . +: . : . = : oy
[7407]2 22 | Miami Station did their name check and we did our name cneéchk
[7408]4 . :
[7409]— { : 2 . : . . -
[7410]3 235 here. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had
[7411]i | oe |
[7412]= 4 more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.
[7413]= 5 : 1 .
[7414]. #5 || 0 But the names were traced through Agency files?
[7415]i
[7416]|
[7417]an)
[7419]| . SEC RET ; photocopy from
[7421]Gerald Ford Library
[7423]HW 50955 DocId:32204971 Page 102
[7425]sph 7 g 1
[7427]5
[7429]6
[7431]7
[7433]8
[7435]9
[7437]10
[7441]; 12
[7442]i
[7444]4 13
[7445]3
[7447]5 14
[7449]15
[7451]16
[7453]18
[7455]: 19
[7457]; 20
[7459]: 21
[7461]3 22
[7463]: 25
[7465]HW 50955 Docld
[7467]aot te AE 8 LOL
[7469]|
[7470]| A Through Agency files.
[7472]| 9 Yas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI
[7473]| on this as well?
[7474]i A Oh, ves.
[7475]|
[7476]I 9 And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name
[7477]Q
[7478]| check --
[7479]| A Right.
[7480]! . . ; :
[7481]Q -- on people who might pose a security threat --
[7482]| A Yes.
[7483]- |
[7484]9 ~~ to a candidate? |
[7485]4 Vell, they were just trying to cetermine who might
[7486]be a security threat.
[7487]Q That is right. Potential threat.
[7488]cA Yeas,
[7489]{ . . .
[7490]| For what political parties -- strike that.
[7492]conventions?
[7494]A
[7496]rather
[7498]of the
[7500]In 1968 was this service provided for both political
[7502]conventions.
[7503]neid in Miami that year?
[7506]Lt
[7508]Mo. guess it was in 1972 they were both held
[7510]I think it was just. the Democratic in 1968.
[7512]These requests did come from the Secret Service
[7514]than --
[7515]From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director
[7516]Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for
[7518]Photocopy from
[7519]Gerald Ford Library
[7521]- SECRET
[7523]1322704971 Page 103
[7525]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7529]on
[7531]WARD & PaUL
[7532]fe
[7535]14
[7541]“I
[7543]18
[7545]19
[7547]20
[7549]S.E€., Washington, O.¢. 20003
[7551]24
[7553]410 First Sircet,
[7555]25
[7557]102
[7559]support.
[7561]Do you still maintain the records with respect *o
[7565]that tracing activity?
[7567]A I have all che names that have been traced.
[7569]2 And “they are on little cards down in your files?
[7570]A Yes,
[7572]9 Why have those records been maintained? ts there
[7574]any reason those records have been maintained?
[7575]A “Vell, beacause ve were told to maintain them when
[7576]che Watercate thing broke.
[7578]2 I see.
[7580]And since then nobody will destroy anything.
[7584]Q OK Are vou aware of any picketing at various
[7586]places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban
[7588]A it was not aware of it until I was told of it.
[7590]t still don't know whether this WaS a spontaneous action on
[7591]the part of these people or whether they were instructed to
[7592]do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to.
[7594]3 At what locations has it been reported that Pickets
[7596]were located?
[7598]aA Airline offices in New York, Miami. I think another
[7599]place. I forget where it was,
[7600]3} flave you in fact been able to verify that these
[7602]persons were Cubans?
[7603], Photocopy from
[7605]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[7607]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page i04
[7610]wees b . gd Tox Man I in 3
[7612]1 4 A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history
[7614]that this indeed did take slace. ‘Jow, what I have been trying
[7616]Prone {Area 202) 544-6060
[7618]to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized
[7619]this,whicn I fully coubt.
[7621]9 Who was the On-Site Case Officer?.
[7622]; a 2 -
[7623]A At that sime it was a fellow by the name of Tony i
[7624]i i
[7625]? ! Sforza.
[7626]if :
[7627]i is) Is he stiil alive?
[7628]i |
[7629]" . . ; . ote . . H
[7630]9 i A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know |
[7632]10 | whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the |
[7633]a1! ; . as .
[7634]it AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with
[7635]: 12 | Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France,
[7636]2. |
[7637]z} ‘ . . . . . i
[7638]z 1s i 9 Other than this incident which we -- strike that.
[7639]a i : H
[7640]|
[7641]3 14 i What kind of an investigation have you conducted?
[7642]25 |i A I have taiked to people, which is really all you
[7643]i a
[7644]16: can do. There is no other way you can do it.
[7645]17 9 You have been unable to determine who, if anyone,
[7646]18% authorized this activity? ave you been able to identify
[7647]- 19 any of the persons who participated in the picketing?
[7649]s if .
[7650]6 20 51 A Mo.
[7652]z i : ; oe
[7653]2 21 ji 9 With what frequency did this activity occur?
[7654]E I
[7655]3 22 | A t don't have any idea. I only know of one instance.
[7656]f |
[7657]rey i 7 . vr . .
[7658]3 23 | Q This was in New York City?
[7659]|
[7660]a 24 | RN New York City and Miami. |
[7661]id |
[7662]2 \ : . oe os |
[7663]+ 75 0) Do vou know of anv organized political activity that |
[7664]|
[7665]i |
[7666]|
[7667]|
[7669]SE Cc RET Photocopy from
[7671]Gerald Ford Library
[7672]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 105 , , —_
[7674]1 a the “as OY fhe 5 . : 104
[7675]_ | |
[7676]ah 108 1!
[7677]2 } > .
[7678]= i the AMOTS engaged in?
[7679]Pe) t
[7680]g a | +s . ;
[7681]a | A To my Knowledge, they didn't engage in any.
[7682]a
[7683]be _ I
[7684]t ° oe aos |
[7685]2 Q Any political activity.
[7686]é 4 i - : foo 1
[7687]i Do vou know of any other activities that they have |
[7688]4 conducted within this country, they or any of their members :
[7689]u
[7690]6 i . - eae ne . ;
[7691]have conducted within this country that we have not alreacy
[7692]7 |
[7693]| discussed this afternoon? |
[7694]| :
[7695]oS a No.
[7696]|
[7697]9 I 9 Any volitical activities? Any operations? i
[7698]10 | A No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain
[7699]| |
[7700]select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban |
[7701]j . i
[7702]12 | . ; , , , |
[7703]2 H defectors. In other words, Live with them until they are
[7704]: 13 | . :
[7705]; | resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity
[7706]z ! i
[7707]s 14 Hi - at os , ue
[7708]3 i they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of anv-
[7709]15 | ening cise.
[7710]~ | thing else. i
[7711]| t
[7712]16 | oO Do you know of any criminal activities that have
[7713]1 |
[7714]17 | been attribited to --
[7715]| i
[7716]|
[7717]18 |, A I nave heard of some allegations which have never
[7718]| |
[7719]2 19 | been croven. |
[7722]J 20 9 What are the allecations? !
[7724]5 7 4 . . : :
[7725]3 ei | A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances |
[7727]3 aa and this type of thina.
[7728]ral j . . . :
[7729]< a5 2 Have those allecations been made with any fre-
[7730]3
[7731]3 24 | quency? ;
[7732]3
[7733]° 25 A Well, I Zoreet who it was. It was during the
[7734]| SECRET
[7735]i Photocopy from
[7737]Gerald Ford Library
[7738]HW 50955 Doocld:32204971 Page 106 ; "
[7742]J
[7744]i
[7745]| Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out
[7746]e | and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we
[7748]made file checks and this type of thing. One particular
[7750]Phone (Area 202) 944-6000
[7752]b Gri
[7754]ral : A . . : . . =
[7755]= | activity was supposed to have been carried out in Rockefeller
[7756]. 9 , Center in New York and iz turns out it was taken out of
[7757]° ' context. It was a training mission and -- craining exercise.
[7758]i oa - oe, : : ;
[7759]7 | These guys were being trained in Surveillance in New York
[7760]l !
[7761]8 | and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhattay
[7762]a : 7 \ 5 ;
[7763]2 | ~~ Chase Manhattan and =c come back out and then they were :
[7764], Lo! supposed to diagram the lavout of the bank. And this to some j
[7765]; i
[7766]tl | of them meant casing the sank when in fact it was just a |
[7767]| |
[7768]4 12 | memory exercise.
[7769]]
[7771]a 13 | 9 With what frecuency were those kinds of training
[7772]t y .
[7773]« i . : . j
[7774]3 14 exercises conducted?
[7775]if ~ i}
[7776]i
[7777]15 | A Nell, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt.
[7778]16 } that these people, seleczad individuals, were to be trained |
[7779]| .
[7780]17} in trade craft.
[7781]| |
[7782]le fl 4 and did their trade craft training include such |
[7784]- 19} “things as surveillance? :
[7785]§ i
[7786]g
[7787]3 20 it A Sure,
[7789]5 21! 2 And break-ins? H
[7790]po | |
[7791]2 £2 | A Jo. Not break-ins. Nor Surreptitious entry. As f
[7792]uf |
[7793]a 23 | said, in the case of this sarticular thing, it was misinter-~
[7794]2 7 ‘ 1
[7795]: I . |
[7796]5 24 || vreted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -- they |
[7797]_ !
[7798]+ 25 | could have walked into vrour office, your outer office and -
[7799]| :
[7800]ll \ . ~ i
[7801]j SEC RET ; Photocopy from i
[7803]Gerald Ford Library
[7805]HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page 107
[7807]oh 12
[7809]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7811]WARD & PAUL
[7813]41G First Surcet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[7815]io
[7817]Crt
[7819]an
[7825]oO
[7827]fe
[7828]“2
[7830]Lay)
[7831]on
[7833]aa Tim Raat a
[7834]ele 106
[7836]said -~ the instructor could have said two hours later teil
[7837]. a
[7838]me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it?
[7840]This is just for observation.
[7841]9 You statec earlier none of those allegations have
[7843]been proven. ilave any of them been proved to your
[7846]A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.
[7847]Q I take it you do not believe they took place other
[7849]than the training exercise?
[7851]A Oh, no. No. I don't believe they did.
[7853]9 Do you know of any instances where members of that
[7854]group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
[7855]in this country?
[7857]A No.
[7859]Q  ° Have you ever been present at any discussions of
[7860]the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the
[7862]Miami Station within this. country?
[7864]R Leqality? Ho.
[7865]a Yow about the propriety?
[7866]A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.
[7868]No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or
[7869]the propriety of having the Station.
[7871]9 There have been some allegations in the press and
[7872]elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of
[7874]that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those?
[7876]SECRET Photocopy from
[7878]Gerald Ford Library
[7880]HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page 108
[7882]‘oh 13
[7884]Phone {Ares 202} 544-6000
[7887]an
[7889]he
[7892]WARD & PAUL
[7894]ta
[7896]te
[7900]22
[7902]a Washinglon, 6,C. 20003
[7904]S.E
[7906]410 Pinst Street,
[7908]mn
[7910]20.
[7912]24 |
[7914]25 |
[7916]aad Bs hes BS B 107
[7917]A NO. i
[7918]i
[7919]DP) We received some correspondence and I have seen some |
[7921]articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of |
[7923]. i
[7925]|
[7927]a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various!
[7929]operations in this country.
[7931]You mean this country?
[7933]be
[7934]A
[7936]2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some
[7938]other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any xnowledce
[7940]of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type
[7941]of operation within this country? i
[7942]i
[7944]A No. i
[7946]2 Do you Know whether or not the Agency has provided
[7948]financial support for Cuban businessmen in this country?
[7950]+S)
[7951]te!
[7954]No. Not =o my knowledge. “ . i
[7958]2 Other than the maintenance of cover? ‘
[7959]i
[7960]|
[7961]A No. :
[7962]j
[7963]; |
[7965]oa Establisnment of businesses?
[7966].
[7967]A NO. }
[7969]- |
[7970]») No?
[7971]H
[7972]. |
[7973]ot No. !
[7974]a in the course of our discussions today we discussed
[7977]the: AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various volitical front groups, |
[7979]revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre,
[7981]|
[7982]Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported
[7984].
[7985]by the Agency, either financially or otherwise? \
[7987]SEC RET Photocopy from . . |
[7989]Gerald Ford Library
[7991]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Fage 109 : -
[7993]ar Gm Ge BS ie 6 108
[7995]|
[7996]° i
[7997]3 |
[7998]rs 1 A Not to my knowledce.
[7999]4
[8000]v
[8001]Be) } -a6 : . a6 4 +
[8002]= 2 Q Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached
[8003]oS
[8004]N
[8005]a
[8006]F; 5 to Mr. Colby?s statement?
[8007]2
[8008]2 a “7
[8009]= 4 A £@s.
[8011]5 | 9) Did you have some role in drafting that?
[8012]t
[8013]t
[8014]6 | A You mean the Miami Station thing? ; ~|
[8015]oo |
[8016]9 9 Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". .
[8017]A Ves.
[8018]8 | |
[8020]9 | Q You wrote it?
[8021]i
[8022]i
[8023]5 ms Yes. |
[8024]10
[8025]11 9 It has a familiar ring about it. There are references
[8026]|
[8027]12 to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are
[8028]3 ,
[8029]q } 2 : .
[8030]a 13 | there any others other than the ones we have been discussing?
[8031]a ae |
[8032]3 | a - , _
[8033]< 14 l A Jot to my knowledge. here are, you know, if you
[8034]3 =
[8035]15 | want, to .ca@ll.it an oraganization, we did, vou know, subsidiz
[8036]16 chevRekivout of Juanita Castro.
[8037]1
[8038]+ Q | Yes, I am familiar with that.
[8039]L7 tt
[8040]V
[8041]18 | A ‘You are familiar with all that and that is by the
[8042]i moard now, too.
[8043]a 19 |
[8044]3 | a ;
[8045]s 9 She was. doing -~ ~-
[8046]5 20
[8047]3
[8048]2 A Propaganda.
[8049]3 21
[8050]3 / fy -- oropaganda broadcasts. .
[8051]3 22 -
[8053]a | A Yes.
[8054]“ 23 |
[8055]2 i H
[8057]rl 24 2 Do you have any D2ersonal knowledge of what xXind of
[8058]x Ke
[8059]2 25 | intellkigence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami i
[8061]| Ss E re RET Photocopy from
[8062]i Gerald Ford Library
[8064]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971 Page 110
[8066]iw)
[8067]pant
[8068]oe)
[8070]Ji
[8072]Phane {Area 202) 544-606b
[8074]WARD & PAUL
[8076]410 Fesst Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[8080]Gr
[8084]24
[8086]25
[8088]ugh Hn us BM, ie
[8090]iow by the Miami Statisn?
[8092]7)
[8093]Ny
[8094]oO
[8097]109
[8099]A There are no domestic activities at all in the
[8101]Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been moved back
[8103]nere to Headquarters. The ‘tiami Station now is completely
[8105]and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.
[8107]9 Does
[8109]Station -- I beg your pardon --
[8111]does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban
[8113]situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban community?
[8115]A’ No. Nell, let
[8117]me exblain that to you. Ne do have
[8119]a career agent who nas been with us for a good many vears
[8121]in Miami and we do use ‘sim
[8123]who are still in Cuba. mean,
[8125]in Cuba.
[8127]who have relatives
[8129]Now, this is .
[8130]recruitment target,
[8131]type of thind. He does contac
[8132]United States. If we come
[8134]he might be recruitable,
[8136]we will, after we make our ctreliminary assessment,
[8138]weaknesses or strengths,
[8140]=o contact relatives of Cubans
[8142]relatives who are in the U.S.
[8144]done 2rincipally with the idea of a
[8146]this
[8148]these people all over the
[8150]across an individual that. looks Like
[8152]or verhaps we could even double hin,
[8154]and we
[8156]find out where relatives anc these types of people are, we
[8158]will ask this career agent cr
[8159]these neople, be it New York,
[8161]ever.
[8163]2 So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in
[8165]country, aS access agents.
[8167]SECRET
[8169]HW 50955 Docld:322704971 Page 111
[8171]nstruct him to go contact
[8173]New Jersey, Chicago, or what~
[8175]this
[8177]Photocopy from
[8178]Gerald Ford Library
[8181]Oh
[8183]l ad He en TS we |
[8184]|
[8185]16 |
[8186]g i
[8187]3 1 | . .
[8188]a | A Right.
[8189]B i
[8190]a 24: . 2 . ;
[8191]3 Q Just like foreicn associates would do.
[8192]3 . | - i
[8193]RS “ | A Exactly.
[8194]2
[8195]é a |
[8196]4 2 Are there any mere people like Bernard Barker who
[8197]u I
[8198]- fy . . : i
[8199]° F are contract emplovees of the Agency who still work in the
[8201]6 | stgami-Cuban communit:?
[8202]7 , |
[8203]| A No. None.
[8204]|
[8205]8 | a) That entire apdaratus has been --
[8206]! |
[8207]9 | A das been dismantled.
[8208]10 | 9 -~ dismantled. What is the current size of the
[8209]il | Miami -Station? |
[8210]2 | |
[8211]4 12 A I really con't know but it runs between 11 and 14,
[8212]a . :
[8213]' = =~ seen: : 1 t . os j
[8214]a iS | as far as I know. I think it will be ll by the next fiscal
[8215]z |
[8216]< ta tt .
[8217]3B 4% | vear.
[8218]16 || MR. MANFREDI: off the record.
[8219]| |
[8220]16 (Discussion off the record.)
[8221]17 | MR.MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
[8222]18 || BY MR. MANFREDI:
[8223]H|
[8224]H
[8225]3 19 Q . There are >resently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
[8226]3 | ;
[8227]o 20 | oof Niami?
[8228]6 i
[8229]g 21 | A No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of
[8230]3 22 | eadauarters. -
[8231].)
[8232]“ ; 3 zs 4 . = :
[8233]z 25 | i) And even from the Neadquarters location there are
[8234]a
[8235]& | .
[8236]3 24 | no Daramilitary operations?
[8237]2 H
[8238]S | Photocopy from
[8239]2 25 | A Mo. , Gerald Ford Library
[8240]| ‘
[8241]|
[8243]| SECRET
[8245]HW 50955 Docld:32204971 Page 112
[8248]si
[8250]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
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[8260]WARD & PAUL
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[8276]HY 50955 Docld
[8278]SECRET Lu
[8280]Q No covert -- well, there is some propaganda activity
[8282]i ;
[8283]| being conducted still?
[8284]f
[8286]i that we had, the radio, taped Drogram, is being terminated
[8288]oy 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated
[8290]now.
[8291]2 The Miami Station is under official cover.
[8292]i A Yes.
[8293]f 2 And it has been decreased to how many people?
[8294]i
[8295]i
[8296]qi A Between il and 14,
[8297]|
[8298]: Q And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
[8300]i
[8301]1
[8302]i respect to Cuba?
[8303]H
[8304]I
[8305]' A Absolutely none.
[8307]i) And its responsibilities are entirely directed to
[8308]other Latin American countries?
[8310]A To Caribbean countries.
[8312]9 Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are
[8313]other Agency stations in the Caribbean?
[8315]A Yes.
[8316]‘ i) Nell, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts.
[8317]Tf you have anything vou would like to add you are welcome
[8318]to do so.
[8320]A No, I have nothing.
[8322]Q I want to thank vou on behalf of myself and the
[8324]Commission for vour cooperation. ;
[8325]i Photocopy from
[8327]SECRET ; | Gerald Ford Library
[8329]132204971 Page 113
[8331]| A On a very small scale, and the covert action facility
[8334]on 18 4
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[8384]HY 50955 Docld: 32204971
[8386]SEGRE!
[8388]Sure.
[8390]I am sorry ve had to take so much of your time.
[8392]That is all rignt.
[8394]Thank you again.
[8396](Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of the
[8398]| deposition was concluded.)
[8400]SECRET
[8402]Page iid
[8404]Photocopy from
[8405]Gerald Ford Library