[1]178-10002-10215
[3]2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS
[5]AGENCY :
[6]RECORD NUMBER :
[8]RECORD SERIES ;
[10]AGENCY FILE NUMBER :
[12]ORIGINATOR :
[13]FROM:
[14]TO:
[16]TITLE:
[18]DATE:
[19]PAGES:
[21]SUBJECTS :
[23]DOCUMENT TYPE :
[24]CLASSIFICATION :
[25]RESTRICTIONS :
[26]CURRENT STATUS :
[27]DATE OF LAST REVIEW :
[29]OPENING CRITERIA :
[31]COMMENTS :
[35]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page i
[37]JFK Assassination System
[38]Identification Form
[40]Agency Information
[42]ROCKCOM
[43]178-10002-10215
[45]ASSASSINATION FILES
[46]DEPOSITION OF (A CIA EMPLOYEE)
[48]Document Information
[50]ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION
[52]04/16/1975
[53]8
[55]ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES
[56]CIA
[58]CLANDESTINE OPERATIONS
[59]CUBAN EXILES
[60]FITZGERALD, DESMOND
[61]STURGIS, FRANK
[63]HUNT, E. HOWARD
[64]KENNEDY, ROBERT F.
[65]ORGANIZED CRIME
[66]ROSELLI, JOHNNY
[67]STURBITTS, WILLIAM
[68]GIANCANA, SAM
[70]DEPOSITION
[71]Secret
[73]1A: IB; ic
[74]Redact
[75]02/13/2001
[77]Selected pages from deposition. Full document is number 1781000210091.
[79]Date:
[81]ACT OF 1992
[82]3
[84]SECRET
[86]2 i
[88]3 Loi CONTENT
[89]z Boa a Sa a me
[91]3 Hi
[93]s 2 | peposition of
[95]3 |
[97]4 3 |
[99]: William C. Sturbitts
[101]Z 4 |
[103]~ ¢ William c. Sturbitts (Resumed)
[104]f
[106]| 178-10002-10091
[108]178-10002-10215
[110]WARD & PAUL
[111]i
[114]i 178-10002-10279
[116]be
[118]o
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[127]410 First Street, S.E., Wasnington,
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[131]: SECRET
[133]50955 Docld:32275518 Page 2
[135]Examination by Counsel
[137]For the Commission
[139]2
[141]i . (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)
[143]538
[145]Photocopy from
[146]Gerald Ford Library
[149]we SECRET ;
[151]i
[152]tbh 1 |
[153]5 Hi
[154]3 : .
[155]z | PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
[156]a |
[157]a 2
[158]a | ON CIA ACTIVITIES
[159]é a
[160]g | 7“
[161]z gf
[162]; Langley, Virginia’
[163]~ Wednesday, April 16, 1975
[164]|
[165]i Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for
[166]| examination by Counsel for the Commission on CIA Activities,
[167]6
[168]| the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary
[169]‘ Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
[171]“* | Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50
[172]. i .
[173]i- | o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings»
[175]’ 5
[176]5 Te | being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. MeClenning, and
[177]< .
[178]x 2 H )
[179]; ie transcribed under her direction.
[180]fy | |
[181]5 * APPEARANCES:
[182]+o On behalf of the Commission:
[183]16 GEORGE MANFREDI, ESQ.,
[184]aT ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.
[186]- 19 °
[187]8
[188]5 ac .
[189]G i.
[191]2 2: in
[192]5 ‘ 4
[193]2 26 | \
[194]a 4 aceon pee ind
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[198]5 24 Photocopy from
[199]+ Gerald Ford Library
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[202]WW 50955 Docta:32275518 Page 3 SECRET
[206]Phaue (Area 202) 244-6000
[207]Gi
[209]a
[211]mn
[213]“WARD & PAGE
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[223]AYO Farsi Strcel, SE, Woshingtan, 0.0. 20603
[225]210
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[231]Thereupon,
[233]called as
[235]SECRET ;
[237]Tete apt eing
[239]WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
[241]a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA
[243]Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary
[245]Public, was examined and testified as follows: |
[247]record?
[249]A
[251]Q
[252]weeks ago
[255]A
[257]A
[258]Economic
[260]Q
[262]EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION
[264]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[266]Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the
[268]William C. Sturbitts.
[270]Mr. Sturbitts, do you recall when we spoke some
[272]you signed a document entitled, “Advice and
[274]Right.
[276]You understand that document is still in effect?
[277]Sure.
[279]Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?
[280]You mean the Agency or --
[282]That is right.
[284]Central Intelligence Agency. .
[286]And what is your current position with the Agency?
[287]“I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for
[288]Intelligence Collection and Operations.
[290]“And would you briefly review for me the history of
[292]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 4 SECRET
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[347]wECRE I 3
[349]your employment with the Agency?
[351]When I first came in I was in the Intelligence
[352]Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on specia
[353]detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plan
[355]which is now the Directorate of Operations.
[357]What year were you put on that detail?
[359]I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.
[361]And what did that detail involve?
[363]Cuban operations, economic warfare.
[365]And how long were you on that detail?
[367]I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.
[368]Between 1964 and. i973?
[370](Nods in affirmative.)
[372]And in 1973 did you assume your current position?
[374]Yes, January.
[376]Now, while you were on special detail ~- to the DOD?
[378]Yes.
[380]Were you stationed in Washington?
[381]Yes. .
[382]And did you commute with some frequency to Miami?
[384]Yes.
[386]Were your activities in Miami in any way connected
[388]with the operations cof the Miami Station?
[390]In some way. ‘My responsibilities were worldwide.
[392]| I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami.
[393]|
[394]|
[396]_
[397]‘ Photocopy from
[398]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
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[473]SECRET | ;
[475]Most of my operations were run out of Europe.
[477]9 Run out of ~-
[479]A Europe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones
[480]were run out of Europe.
[482]Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect
[484]to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the
[486]operations of the Miami base?
[488]A Yes.
[490]Q And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?
[492]A Yes, Sir.
[494]8) During the nine years you were with ppo's Cuban
[495]operations, who was -- who were the chiefs of the Miami
[496]Station?
[498]A ff think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
[499]was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know
[501]it. Well, I will come back to that.
[503]Then, the next Chief of Station was Pall Henze.
[505]Q What years was he Chief?
[507]A I think Baul was there about a year and a half. He
[509]left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's
[511]say Hende was there from 1966 to 1968. And then Jake Esterline.
[513]He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.
[514]Q
[515]you were assigned for the 9-year period?
[517]A Well, when I first came in it was known as the
[519]Photocopy from :
[520]SEC RET ‘Gerald Ford Library
[522]Now, what was the formal title of the group to which
[526]|
[527]|
[528]|
[530]i
[534]2
[536]3
[538]Phone (Ares 202) 544-0000
[540]WARD PAUL
[541]jo
[542]ta
[544]fe
[549]fA
[551]20002
[553]HEU Faeut Street, SEL, Woasbragtoa, OO.
[555]HW 50955 Doecld:322755168 Page 7
[561]23 ©
[563]24 |
[565]And then, I believe after
[567]SECRET .
[569]Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.
[571]that it became the Cuban Operations
[573]Group.
[575]Q Mow, was this a special group within the DDO or was
[577]it attached to one of the area divisions?
[579]A Wo.
[580]called Task Force W which was headed by Bill Harvey. And
[581]that -- when Harvey left, he went to ‘Shief of Station, Rome,
[583]i
[585]and Fitzgerald took over, it became. Special Activities Staff.
[586]It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the
[588]Deputy Director, Plans.
[589]Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?
[591]A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it
[593]was first created. Heims was DDP at that time.
[595]9 And Task Force W was created immediately after the
[597]Bay of Pigs? -
[598]A well, not immediately. I think sometime around --
[600]in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was created in
[601]September, something like that, 1961.
[603]Q And that subsequently became the Special Activities
[605]Staff?
[606]A Special Activities Staff and consequently became the
[608]Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went
[610]back into the Western Hemisphere Division.
[612]and what was the date of that reorganization?
[614]Photocopy from
[615]SECRET _Pranmcon om
[617]Q
[619]Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing
[621]se URE f 6
[622]3 1 ,
[623]z ~ A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around
[624]: 2 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then
[625]: & : later DDP.
[626]i 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. |
[627]5 ° Harvey held after he left Task Force W? |
[628]6 A Yes. He was:¢hief of Station, Rome. !
[629]” Q And is he still with the Agency? !
[630]oO |
[631]8 A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago. !
[632]fe s) Do you know where he lives at the present time? |
[633]ane A Frankly, I don't. I have an idea where he lives.
[634]Lt He went to work for a friend of mine who had a law firm. |
[635]- 12 Harvey is a lawyer. |
[636]| |
[637]: lz 9 Indianapolis area?
[638]; 14 A Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest, |
[639]1s Indiana. |
[640]|
[641]16 Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force
[642]is WwW? |
[643]la A Tt was‘the overall Cuban operations. |
[644], 19 2 Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab~ |
[646]: 21 A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down!
[647]: 20 there about 1960 which was small, in. Coral: Gables. |
[648]3 23 Q This was, then, srior to the Bay of Pigs?
[649]i 24 A Oh, yes.
[650]3 25 Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami
[652]SECRET
[654]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 6
[656]Photocopy from
[657]Gerald Ford Library
[660]SECKET ,
[662]5 :
[663]g :
[664]2 1. . . . .
[665]g - Station running any operations against Cuba?
[666]a ”
[668]a ij A You mean prior to. the Bay of Pigs?
[669]3 : .
[670]cS S| .
[671]2 ‘ Q Yes.
[672]i a - ;
[673]A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a
[675]on
[677]forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support type
[678]i
[680]1?) :
[681]thing.
[682]7 - eons
[683]iz Q Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was
[684]8 3 astablished, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban
[685]9 .
[686]- = operations?
[687]iC A Yes.
[688]i j
[689]1! . ae ,
[690]di Q or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami i
[691]5 | . ,
[692]Fy le Station? |
[693]3 te A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W. |
[694]3 is Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special |
[695]i
[696]28 Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Groun? |
[697]16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station |
[698]i? "has no Cuban operations.
[699]. {
[700]ic . Q T understand that. When were Cuban operations termi-
[701]2 19 nated?
[702]3 20 A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down
[704]21. there in 1972. it was during fiscal year '72. I think it was
[706]Was tittigtaas,
[708]22 in early 1973. fit was a gradual reduction.
[710]: 2s ‘ ) “and have those operations been terminated entirely
[712]: 24 or are they now run out of the Washington area?
[714]: 26 ' A All Cuban operations are run out of Washington.
[717]SEC RET Gerald Ford library
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[721]SECRET
[723]i=]
[725]fo] . .
[727]2 1 ' , . «
[729]: ~ There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.
[731]z
[733]rs) . .
[735]3 2 i Q But there are some Cuban operations being run out of
[739]2 ~ i
[741]S % il the Washington area?
[743]3 :
[745]a 4 :
[746]an A Right.
[747]5 ;
[749]; 9 Is that correct? i
[750]. |
[751]6 A Right. Worldwide.
[752].
[754]° f Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may
[755]Bh have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassina-
[756]9 : tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination |
[758]1¢ * attempts that have been mounted --
[760]i
[761]i
[762]; A Right.
[763]-- against Fidel Castro. In the course of your |
[766]r 12 ; Q
[768]Z : a
[770]a 13 i activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such}
[772]3 :
[774]Z a |
[776]3 14° attempts? |
[777]i}
[779]Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say
[781]18 i A |
[783]16 3 attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too |
[784]17! strong a word. |
[785]16: Q Well, can you place in time your first knowledge of
[786]2 39°: any such discussions? |
[787]; 20., A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions,
[788]: 21 | I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald
[789]E F i
[790]i 22 | in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -~ let me put
[791]: 23 it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on
[792]; 24 | with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as |
[793]: 25 | I recall, he wanted some British ~~ I mean Belgian rifles and
[795]| Photocopy fi
[796]. SEC RET Gerald Ford Library |
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[800]SECRET 9 |
[801]2 | .
[802]8 Lo
[803]g a telescopic sight.
[804]Bal i
[805]x a
[806]iz i Q Who wanted them?
[807]é 3 i
[808]2 t A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think
[809]i 4
[810]at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going
[811]5
[812]on. i didn't participate in it because I was there for another!
[814]reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgerald
[815]7 . ;
[816]met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-~
[817]8 .
[818]tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy.
[819]9° a s
[820]: I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that 7
[821]1G .
[822]we gave to your people. But I don't know who was reviewing
[823]12. - ; ; ;
[824]“~~ ' them. . I think Belin was going to do it himself.
[825]3 le. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself: |
[827]: Tee You said there were 19 volumes of documents with
[828]~ - i
[830]3 ~= respect to this.
[831], | |
[832]aa A 19 files, manila.
[834]-° 9 All having to do with possible assassination?
[835]aT A All having to do with this whole time period and --~
[836]- . , |
[837]1e can we go off the record for a minute? !
[838]i
[839]2 19 (Discussion off.the record.) |
[840]‘ 20 BY MR. MANFREDI:
[841]a ei Q The first knowledge of such conversations that you
[842]= . i
[843]2 22" nad, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr.
[844]ad ;
[845]Z «3 pitzgerald?
[846]2 £4 A I simpiv overheard it, that is right.
[847]= 25 E is) And who were the parties to the conversation you overt
[849]i
[851]( Ph tocopy from
[852]SECRET | Gerald Ford Library
[854]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page il \—-
[856]od ton ts BSE Lu
[858]3 : heard?
[859]a 2% as weg
[860]& i A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez.
[861]ra 3 . :
[862]2 4 Q And Mr. Fitzgerald?
[863]z 4 : : J
[864]* * A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other |
[865]5 . . |
[866]“ people. We were -- we nad just moved the Station at that time, |.
[867]6 i
[868]© in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace
[869]" : and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations
[870]8 took place -- we walked around the garden and tyat type of
[871]9 f ; ;
[872]“: thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody
[873]1: was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations.
[874]a= 2 This was in Paris?
[875]2 le: A Yes.
[876]2 i
[877]s l
[879]a tes Q I see. |
[880]a :
[881]Z
[882]14 a _ . * .
[883]3 +5. Mr: Sanchez ~- was he a member of the military?
[884]ae A tye, Sanchez was..in the Special Activities Staff. |
[885]va i
[886]16 |. He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with
[887]F .
[888]iv Cuban military-type.
[889]is : Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive
[890]3 19: instructions with respect to this activity from another
[892]3 20 i component of the Government?
[893]Cc 4 |
[894]3 el: A Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether
[895]2 Ho: |
[896]z 22! they received instructions. I have to assume, and I am pretty |
[897]a Fe - i
[898]a ae . . te
[899]3 £3 positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision. |
[900]A if . .
[901]3 24 i and at this time vou have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was
[902]3 i . . |
[903]? £5 jl overseeing this deal, 2resumably for his brother, and he was
[905]; p
[906]i § EC RET hotocopy from
[907]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 12 Gerald Ford Library
[909]DSEUKE! WW
[911]g oo.
[913]: * _ part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided
[915]: a he did a number of things.
[917]2 - :
[919]: ° : is) Were there any other occasions that you can recall
[921]: ° _ in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of |
[922]- . !
[923]° Fidel Castro was discussed?
[924]A No, not really. :
[925]5 :
[927]Q You referred to this as the first occasion.
[928]1
[930]& A ‘This is the first -- |
[931]$ 9 Was there a second? :
[932]is A -- the first time I knew about it or even heard it
[933]ao discussed. |
[935]: Le : Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently |
[937]F
[939]: se underway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation
[941]3 is -- were there any other occasions in which this subject came |
[943]|
[945]+e to your attention after this discussion in the garden in |
[946]ze Paris? " |
[947]2° A The only other thing that came to my attention was |
[948]26 that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight
[950]2 13 that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don’t know,
[954]: 2C- put that is what I was told. |
[956]6 i
[958]: ae Q When did vou learn that? |
[960]E £2 A Oh, I would assume in -- must have been early 1964, |
[964]3 ee around February, something like that. |
[966]: as ) Off the record.
[968]3 ee (Discussion off the record.) |
[970]Photocopy from
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[975]Phioue (Aes 202) 54-1-GO000
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[987]nO MR. MANFREDI:: On the record.
[989]5 .
[990]OE BY MR. MANFREDI:
[992]a Q Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by
[996]. the name of Frank Sturgis?
[998]© A Indeed.
[1000]. Q Ig your familiarity based on what you have read in
[1002]7 the press?
[1004]8 A No. It is what is contained in the files.
[1006]g Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,
[1007]a | particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,
[1009]i+ in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any
[1011]12 connection with the Agéncy?
[1013]ie A I have.
[1015]Le Q What were the results of that searcn?
[1017]=o A Absolutely no connection, never has been.
[1019]né Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about
[1021]17 - an employment relationship?
[1023]Lé A That is wnat I am speaking of.
[1025]19 Q Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of
[1027]20. the Agency?
[1029]2. A No.
[1031]22° Q Was he ever a contract employee?
[1033]ae) A No.
[1035]£4 Q Was he ever a reqular employee of the Agency?
[1037]25. Xx No. |
[1039]Photocopy from
[1041]SEC RET : Gerald Ford Library
[1043]Docld:32275518 Page id
[1046]SECRET aad
[1048]3 7 .
[1049]: ~ Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the
[1050]g 2.
[1051]& i Agency?
[1052]3 il
[1053]5 vo A Not to my knowledge. |
[1054]* * Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici- |
[1055]5 . _ . ;
[1056]pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against
[1058]7 _ . , .
[1059]A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this
[1060]3
[1061]° 2 Agency.
[1062]9° Q How did vou learn of those operations? ;
[1063]ue A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. '
[1064]+s Q Now, are these recent FBI reports? !
[1065]: aan A Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the
[1066]< t |
[1067]2 asa oN :
[1068]5 -9 thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop :
[1069]é - .
[1070]3 - over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and :
[1072]-5 by the Bureau office in Miami. |
[1073]~5 Q Do vou know who financed his activities?
[1074]75 A I have no idea.
[1075]2é - Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were
[1076]: . |
[1077]3 i9 ° indirectly financed by the Agency through -- i |
[1078]é of
[1079]3 20 s A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of |
[1080]c " ~ - )
[1082]z 21: fortune: has been. He has constantly tried to associate himself
[1084]3 22% with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me
[1085]5 £3 > to classify the file and the way I classified it was "don't
[1086]a a ; . . .
[1087]2 <4: destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance.”
[1088]3 26 ii Q Off the record. |
[1089]Photocopy from
[1091]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library |
[1093]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 15
[1095]Phone (Area 202) 5441-6000
[1097]a
[1100]Crt
[1102]WARES mk PALIT.
[1104]20003
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[1108]ra
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[1112]3
[1114]3
[1115]a
[1117]HW 50955 DoclId
[1119]ao ie os HRS
[1120]14
[1122](Discussion off the record.)
[1124]MR. MANFPREDI: On the record.
[1126]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[1128]. i
[1129]Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mri
[1131]Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
[1132]A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
[1133]Q And what is the volume of that material?
[1134]A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee |
[1136]called for them the other day after the article in the paper,
[1138]I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and!
[1140]they returned them Monday afternoon.
[1142]Q Do you know who examined those files?
[1144]A No, I don't.
[1145]I
[1147]Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts
[1149]the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct?
[1151]A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits
[1153]of so-called information. :
[1156]Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged
[1158]narcotics traffic?
[1159]A Recently it has been.
[1161]Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office
[1163]in Miami?
[1165]A Mr. Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miami |
[1167]to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the
[1169]FBI. - .
[1170]Photocopy from
[1172]SEC RET . Gerald Ford Library |
[1174]132275516 Page 16
[1176]124-6000
[1177]a 4
[1179]Phowe (Area 202)
[1180]Cel
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[1217]fa) 03 tas)
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[1220]VUG barca Stecet, SE
[1222]fay)
[1224]HW 50955 DoclId
[1226]on
[1228]on Sturgis,
[1230]sEGKE i
[1232]Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an
[1234]established contact?
[1236]A No manner.
[1238]Q Do they nave any -- do they periodically seek to
[1240]collect information from Mr. Sturgis?
[1241]A I can't speak to that but the records that we have
[1243]don't reflect, anything like that. Before they would contact
[1245]gomebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file
[1246]| they would have to coordinate with the Latin
[1247]American Division pefore they did anything since we do hoid
[1248]the file.
[1250]QO Would you briefly explain what 4 201 file is?
[1252]A A 201 file is a personnel file. it consists of any
[1254]information relating to an individual appearing in the press
[1256]as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.
[1258]Q Personnel or personality file?
[1259]A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.
[1260]Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection
[1262]or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?
[1263]A Well, I will say this. Obviously, they do know
[1265]each other. They have to know each other from their days
[1267]in Cuba.
[1268]2
[1269]pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?
[1271]As ff recall, we employed Martinez around 1961,
[1273]f Photocopy from
[1274]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[1276]A No.
[1278]132275518 Page 17
[1280]Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
[1282]SERRE | 16
[1284]I~
[1286]I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a
[1288]|
[1290]2 if . . . os . .
[1291]' boat captain eventually. And he did participate in infiltrations
[1292]| and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run,
[1294]Phnune (Ares 202) 444-6000
[1296]sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in
[1298]any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever
[1300]6 : do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that belonds
[1301]? to the Agency. ;
[1302]6 ! Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain |
[1304]9 a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting
[1305]| together his own crew?
[1306]Lil A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a |
[1307]z 7 Case Officer operating either out.of the -- orobably out of’ !
[1308]x i : ; :
[1309]: 12 | the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have
[1310]5 Me | some people in the Key West base, But he, Martinez, would receive
[1311]3 his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. I~
[1312]26 Q So it. is likely that he could have brought Sturgis
[1313]if along on any of these operations? : |
[1314]18 | A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was: |
[1315]: 29 | trying to think of, Chief of Station, John Dimmer.
[1316]= i
[1317]: £9 i Q And that would be.for a verlod of time between
[1318]i 21 | Shackley and Henze? |
[1319]i |
[1320]Z 22 | A Yes.
[1322]j 2s | Q 1964 to 1966? |
[1323]: 24 | A Something like that. . |
[1324]3 25 ) Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the
[1325]I
[1326]| SE Ss R ET Photocopy from |
[1327]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 18 Gerald Ford Library
[1329]wo ie es PRE fl VW
[1331]g il
[1332]8 1! :
[1333]2 } activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
[1334]24
[1335]& | your -~ and suhsequently the Cuban Operations Group during
[1336]= d
[1337]3 5 4
[1338]> “ || your 9-year tenure with those groups.
[1339]A Well, there was -- it was an across~the-board
[1340]5
[1341]intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign
[1342]6 an . . . . tae
[1343]positive inteiligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary
[1344]73 toe oo . teas . ,
[1345]i activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about
[1346]8 : cg ne .
[1347], the breadth of the thing.
[1348]t
[1350]“8 2. Mow, these were all conducted through the DDO?
[1351]Ws a . .
[1352]an A Right.
[1353]44 : : . .
[1354]++ Q Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary
[1355]a: ,
[1356]z 12 operations. “ere these operations run out of southern
[1357]z i
[1358]2 13 3 .
[1359]; ~“ - Florida?
[1361]2 ad A Right.
[1362]+o 9 And in particular out of the Miami Station?
[1363]16 A Yes.
[1364]if 9 Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of
[1365]1é the country that participated in these activities?
[1366]= i9 A Not to my knowledge. |
[1367]j 29 Q Were there any southern harbors other than Miami
[1368]3 a1 that were used in these activities?
[1369]z BR A Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As
[1370]z 3° T.said, we did have a Key West base.
[1371]i ae
[1372]3 £4 | 9 Were there any other bases in that area of the
[1373]> i
[1374]- £51 country that were utilized in these operations?
[1376]SECRET Photocopy from
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[1379]HW 509545 Docld:32275518 Page 19
[1382]sEGKEE 18
[1384]|
[1386]i
[1390]5 1 A Well, not that I would cail a base. We did have |
[1392]2 5 |
[1394]z “4 training facilities for the UDT teams. |
[1396]: 3 i . }
[1398]= ar Q What is a UDT team? |
[1399]z 1
[1401]z 44 ; os
[1403]: A Underwater demolition. |
[1405]: |
[1407]° 2 Where were those bases located? :
[1409]6.
[1411]vO ey I frankly don't know. They were down along the Kevs, |
[1413]7 4
[1415]" # along that long peninsula going down there. There were a |
[1417]4 : i
[1419]4 . - i
[1421]8 + number of sites. I really can't recall them.
[1423]p : i
[1425]9 # Q Were there any other sites within the United States |
[1427]for people i
[1429]in which paramilitary training was conducted,
[1431]ity participating in these activities?
[1432]j
[1434]12 | A Not to my knowledge. |
[1437]13 | Q Where were these people trained?
[1441]A What’ do you mean?
[1443]Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.
[1445]|
[1447]|
[1449]i
[1451]We trained them at these places: we had in the Keys. |
[1452]fat
[1454]ae) F 2
[1455]i
[1456]i!
[1457]16 A
[1458]Lz -- some of them were brought up here and traine
[1460]i?" Now, there also
[1462]at.cthe Domestic Training Station.
[1464]: 19 9 Where is that located?
[1466]: 20 | A That is down in Virginie.
[1468]ae iH _ |
[1469]i 21 | 2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these
[1471]: .
[1472]: 22} raids?
[1474]~ i
[1475]: 235 A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to
[1477]: 24 ! understand at this time that we hac a great many contract
[1479]: £5 | employees, independent contractors and this type of thing.
[1482]i Ph
[1483]tf SEC RET Gerald Ford Libexry
[1485]HW 50955 Docld! 32275518 Page 20
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[1489]Gerald Ford Library
[1491]2
[1492]3 z - |
[1493]+ Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was i
[1494]3
[1495]~ oO .
[1496]wy a : 7 : 4 . .
[1497]& 1 conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another
[1498]3 , 4 ;
[1499]gz 3: . !
[1500]z ° | entity of the --
[1501]7 - Q DDO?
[1503]A DDO.
[1504]Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,
[1505]7 a ae . :
[1506]. training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special :
[1507]8 _ Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Speciai
[1508]. 5 E is ¥ p
[1509]g i a ;
[1510]Operations. Group, is that correct?
[1511]ic ens ; ; - = ai
[1512]ty A Weil, supervised, ves, and I would think that probably
[1513]t some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic
[1514]. i
[1516]12 Lo . . : . oe 3 } - 3
[1517]= te Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but I
[1518]Z ; i
[1519]‘ le would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would
[1520]3 is probably staff the training facility with their people who have
[1521]28 the expertise in paramilitary operations.
[1522]i
[1523]. . ae i
[1524]26 a) Now, were the people that were being trained at
[1525]|
[1526]- these facilities basically Cuban refugees?
[1527]Ls A Yes.
[1528]= i9 Q And at the outset I take it not many of those people
[1529]3 7 . !
[1530]4 |
[1532]& 20 were American citizens?
[1533]2 el A No.
[1534]i |
[1535]3 22 2 Or had become American citizens. |
[1537]3
[1538]= 235 A I would assume a creat many have.
[1539]| |
[1540]7 '
[1541]3 24 2 By this time. |
[1542]= |
[1543]= on ' ; . from |
[1544]+ 25. A By this time, yes. Photocopy |
[1545]: i
[1546]i
[1548]SECRET
[1550]HY 50955 Doecld:32275516 Page 21
[1552]SEGRE! 20
[1554]7
[1555]g :
[1557]: ~ 4 oa) At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi
[1558]g 20 -
[1559]a ; in Miami? Do you have any idea?
[1560]2 u
[1561]z aan oo i top ag
[1562]: i A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it 1s
[1564]probably -- I was trying to think. I would say up towards a
[1565]3 tae
[1566]military people.
[1568]Q You spoke about paramilitary operations and covert
[1569]? !. action. How do you distinguish between those two categories
[1570]8. Soa gts
[1571]i Of activities?
[1572]9 ; A Well, actually one can fall into the other. The
[1573]is Hl ag : . .
[1574]““ "paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days
[1576]++" we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was
[1577]z Le ; media placement. We had a number of operations at -- legal-
[1579]a . ' . .
[1580]3 1s ' type operations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel
[1581]3 14 ' seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he had a
[1582]25 : Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in
[1583]16 : the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings
[1584]i? | that. were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned
[1585]18% in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them
[1587]because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was
[1589]20003
[1591]-- they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was
[1593]Oe.
[1595]: a1 forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada.
[1597]: Re We ran legal operations, got the owners and: had them
[1598]: £5 hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing.
[1599]; 24 i He seized these race horses. He tried toe peddle them
[1600]: in Europe and up in Canada. We ran opposition against that
[1602]ae]
[1603]on
[1605]SEC RET Photocopy from
[1607], Gerald Ford Library
[1608]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 22 ~ -
[1610]oo
[1615]SECRET _ 1
[1617]io} 1
[1618]o a
[1619]2 1:
[1621]g type of thing.
[1622]a 2 —_ : {
[1623]a F Q These were what you considered to be covert operations?
[1624]i 3 | | | |
[1625]: i A Yes, covert action. |
[1626]3 . H
[1627]Z 4 ee ee , |
[1628]9 Now, this is what vou were referring to, legal- {
[1629]“ type operations?
[1630]~ A Yes.
[1631]2 ;
[1632]; 9 - You used legal process to harass Castro. |
[1633]8 | 5
[1634]A Yes. , i
[1635]9 ; 9 What other types of harassment activities did you
[1636]+4" run that would fall under this covert action category?
[1637]Tb ;
[1638]ta A Well --
[1639]: ie 4 Q Would economic warfare be --
[1640]3 |
[1641]« H
[1642]5 1% . . . :
[1643]s ont A That was sort of something separate unto itself. :
[1644]x g iS 4 :
[1645]3 a6 This was ~~ the economic warfare aspect of this thing was a I.
[1646]2°. g@ecision of the Special Group to enforce an economic blockade.
[1647]‘ |
[1648]+68 % 9 what special group is that?
[1649]AT A Tt is now called the Forty Committee.
[1650]ic) 9 Is that 302 Committee? |
[1651]a 12 A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all, i
[1652]3 |
[1653]5 :
[1654]3 z0 : it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then
[1655]3 21 it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between
[1656]z i _ |
[1657]3 221 there and now it is the Forty Committee.
[1658]A = - . , a . . :
[1659]2 23" 2 All right. We will return to that a little bit
[1660]5 i .
[1661]Fs £4. later, but what other types of harassment were you running i
[1662]5 25 i ; -
[1663]xo i against Castro -~ ‘photocopy from :
[1665]: Gerald Ford Library
[1667]SECRET
[1669]HW 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 23
[1671]Phune {Area 202) 644-6000
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[1675]LORS
[1677]VEG E test Sarat, S.E., Washiagien, OC.
[1679]nd fie oe ORES 8 "22
[1681]* A This is what I was trying to think of.
[1682]| Q -~ that would be considered covert action? |
[1683]Sy . |
[1684]| A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement, |
[1685]* media placement. It has been so ‘long ago I really don't
[1686]5 remember. I know we had a number of things going against him. |
[1687]° We used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some
[1688], extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,
[1689]e | particularly when they were countries that we had treaties
[1690]° with, NATO countries, Canada, this type or thing.
[1691]29 Let's taik about each of those in turn. You said
[1692]41 | you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you :
[1693]12 | referring to? |
[1694]lo A. Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we
[1695]i were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal
[1696]15 | activities, the legal -- well, I don't know how you would :
[1697]i! |
[1698]161 phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control
[1699]17 | regulations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the
[1700]18 | Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of|
[1701]19 | Commerce, the Export Control people. |
[1702]20 | I. guess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally
[1703]el U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of
[1704]i . |
[1705]a2 | thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying}
[1706]29 | .to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where |
[1708]a4 I we would find this out through all-source intelligence, we |
[1710]or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the
[1712]SEC REL Photocopy from
[1714]Gerald Ford Library
[1716]' SECRETE 23
[1719]3 1 | -
[1720]3 executives of these American companies and ask them to tell
[1721]s a ; oo. ;
[1722]their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts
[1723]i 3 -
[1724]2 and the other things that Castro might need. We had the
[1725]é 4
[1726]Department of Commerce -~ we identified 600 of the major U.S. |
[1727]5 . . eo, !
[1728]companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban incustry.
[1729]6 .
[1730]We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600
[1731]7 . . ; De
[1732]: manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying |
[1733]8 , oo. |
[1734]any spare parts to: the Cubans. This was a fairly concentratea
[1735]. i
[1736]9 - , :
[1737]effort to really isolate them.
[1738]it. oo 3 . i
[1739]9 All right. And that is what you were referring to
[1740]Li a !
[1741]as moral suasion?
[1742]12 |
[1743]3 ~ A Yes. !
[1744]4
[1745]oN 12 4
[1746]: a Q Anything else in that category? :
[1748]5 7s A Not really. None that I can think of. |
[1749]-9 9 Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign |
[1750]. 1
[1751]1
[1752]i6 _ |
[1753]companies?
[1754]19 ‘ n =~: . y
[1755]+! A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,
[1756]. |
[1757]Té fo , os : -
[1758]=e the point in case being the Leyland buses. We pulled all stops
[1759]3 i9 to*stop that sale. The British Government turned us down |
[1760]7
[1761]oC
[1762]“ 2
[1763]g 20 flat.
[1764]> i
[1765]5 el 2 Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of
[1766]3 5 i
[1767]z ee supply? |
[1768]oy i
[1769]“ — . |
[1770]3 eo A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive vourchasing
[1772]24 orogram. If there was a single source of supply for a
[1773]5: ae : . . : ,
[1774]EO: particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans
[1776], Photocopy from
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[1779]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 25
[1781]DEUKE! 7 od
[1783]-]
[1784]3 | the market.
[1785]g 2
[1786]4 i Q Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic 17
[1787]g 5
[1788]g 7 A Yes. |
[1789]Q -- domestic market? |
[1790]|
[1791]A No. It would be re-sold abroad.
[1792]é ,
[1793]2 In all cases? ;
[1794]? . . ;
[1795]A The cases that I was associated with, it was all
[1796]S| a i
[1797]; sold abroad.
[1798]- I
[1799]: Q What kind of purchases were made? :
[1800]12 :
[1801]; 4a Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased |
[1802]12 a
[1803]some Bright Stock in Antwerp. i
[1804]12 I,
[1805]5 2 What? }
[1807]‘ 12 - :
[1808]3 A Bright Stock.
[1809]3 _
[1810]° 2 What is that? :
[1811]“ A Heavy, heavy oil, and since Cuba -- 85 percent of
[1812]lé | . oo |
[1813]her energy comes from oil, this was considered a critical |
[1814]|
[1815]V7: '
[1816]~ commodity. Bright Stock can be =~ oh, it is almost like tar,
[1817]|
[1818]<3 |
[1819]ws _ melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this
[1820]i
[1821]- 19 ; - a ; |
[1822]3 - type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So
[1824]2 ~ > Ye had an oil firm surchase this Bright Stock from a dealer for
[1825]3 oe _ which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was eventually
[1826]z 5
[1827]* ee . solid in Africa.
[1828]4 _ ;
[1829]3 we 3 “Do you know of any sales of such materials that
[1830]2 ae were made within the United States? Resales, I should say.
[1831]3 25
[1832]ow A No.
[1834]i Photocopy from
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[1840]ino os Son SEB
[1842]§ E C R ET : Photocopy from
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[1846]H
[1847]|
[1848]3 i 4 .
[1849]z 4 Q In addition to preemptive buying were there any
[1850]a a
[1851]a 2: _
[1852]a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of
[1853]3 '
[1854]< 5
[1855]2 i supply to Cuba? i
[1856]= A Well, we did provide through third country agents
[1857]who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce .
[1858]. Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had :
[1859]ra
[1860]!  yeplacement parts manufactured that were substandard. j
[1861]8; a es 7
[1862]9 And vou had them sold through foreign companies?
[1863]i
[1864]A Well, we had our agents: get the Cuban orders all
[1865]Lot ; 3 = Fi fact
[1866]. over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of fact,
[1868]““ "the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des.
[1870]3 ~* "and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this.
[1871]a 24
[1872]; we ) Mr. Dillon?
[1873]° ws A No. He was Secretary of the Treasury. h
[1875]-F Q But --
[1877]BR: , . i
[1878]ar A But vou must remember that these American ~- :
[1879]ar :
[1880]~! 8) Mr. Connors? {
[1881]“ A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,
[1882]2 9 well, their places were nationalized and they were only too |
[1883]2 - :
[1884]z |
[1885]: Prem : ‘ f
[1886]¥ “VY \ happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona
[1887]z 4
[1888]3 et 3 fide business. These things were transshipped through two :
[1889]2 4 . i
[1890]3 a9 4b . . an
[1891]= 221 or three countries, finally wound up in Havana. !
[1893]4 33 |
[1894]3 fo 4 2 You referred to some extra-legal activities. :
[1895]sal | :
[1896]2 ee A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what
[1898]2 an I
[1899]* 6 | we did. I just can't think -- I remember this was on one of
[1900]|
[1901]if
[1903]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 27
[1905]wa a es PRE 26
[1907]: - our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was
[1909]z g |
[1911]3 on one of our activities but I just can't remember what the |
[1913]: ° extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know
[1915]° . it was one of the parts of the program.
[1916]° i) This was illegai activities? ts that what you are
[1917]: referring to?
[1919]; A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they
[1921]. weren't exactly legal, I don't think. perhaps they were in a
[1923]° gray area some place.
[1925]aan 8 Well, whose laws are we talking about, international
[1926]+ law, the laws of the United States?
[1928]a tS AD I would have te go back and review the thing. I
[1930]: * really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.
[1932]; == Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files?
[1933]- A rt would think probably down in the Records Center some
[1934]1é . | . |
[1936]° place. . :
[1937]+8 . Q Would it be sossible to obtain that material some
[1938]is time during the lunch hour? ;
[1940]3 a A No. re is forty miles away. |
[1942]: ec. Q Well, is there some place in the building where |
[1944]: ee you could refresh. your. memory?
[1946]i
[1948]3 22° A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped.
[1950]4 . .
[1952]; Re This is talking 1l years ago, 12 years ago. All that material
[1954]: a has been retired. |
[1956]; eo Q What category of activity would we be talking about |
[1958]: Photocopy from
[1959]. SECRET ' Gerald Ford Library
[1961]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 26 v
[1963]SECKE! | 27 Cd
[1965]i]
[1966]2
[1967]g 2
[1968]a when we refer to extra-legal activities?
[1969]g 2
[1970]e A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't
[1971]é z _
[1972]2 think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one
[1973]3
[1974]& 4 . ,
[1975]parts of the program that we were involved in. |
[1976]_ ; : '
[1977]I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might!
[1978]7 tell me what that is. ;
[1979]7
[1980]Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to |
[1981]come back to that. i
[1982]. i
[1983]° A All right.
[1984]~~ Q Whe else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal |
[1985]~~ activities that were run against Castro?
[1986]3 +< A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable are |
[1987]2 _
[1988]3 “ probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran
[1989]3 a the economic program.
[1990]7" Q Well, these are activities that were run in conneetion
[1991]“© with the economic program? |
[1992]_ \ |
[1993]- A Yes. |
[1994]ae Q We talked about media placement during this nine-
[1995]2 ~* year period... To what are. you referring when you refer to
[1996]& 26 |
[1997]y ¥ media s.lacement? ; .
[1998]2 ee A Well, stories or news items that perhaps our
[1999]z {
[2000]5 . i
[2001]= 29 . . : i
[2002]> oe propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers ;
[2003]4 7 |
[2004]z Re and magazines throughout the world. |
[2005]5 | |
[2006]3 ee Q Would this aiso include broadcasts over radio
[2007]z '
[2008]7 O56 _ |
[2009]ae stations? |
[2010]i
[2012]Photocopy from
[2013]SECRET Gerald Ford Library |
[2015]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 29
[2019]202) 544-G000
[2021]Phone (Aas
[2022]Cu
[2026]on
[2028]Os
[2030]Sa)
[2032]WAKO KH PAGEL
[2033]tH
[2034]Cl
[2036]Ds
[2040]}2
[2041]CH
[2044]~7 h
[2047]a8)
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[2056]ray)
[2059]VIG burst Girt,
[2061]to
[2062]on
[2064]HY 50955 Docid
[2066]SEVKE!
[2068]A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.
[2069]Q Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines
[2071]published within the United States?
[2073]A Not to my knowledge, no.
[2075]Q These were essentially foreign publications?
[2077]A Yes.
[2079]Q Were any of them published in the Cuban community -
[2081]in Miami?
[2083]A No. The intent was to get world opinion against |
[2084]Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.
[2086]Q What about the. radio broadcasts? How were those
[2087]handled?
[2089]A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?
[2091]re) Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations
[2093]were involved. Was there more than one radio station?
[2095]A No. We only nad the one radio station but we did
[2097]L
[2099]contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.
[2101]9 For broadcasts to what areas?
[2102]A For broadcasts to Havana.
[2103]9 And the station in New York, was that received also
[2105]-- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United
[2107]States?
[2109]A I have no idea. I don't know whether they used a
[2111]particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it
[2113]short-wave or what they did.
[2114]on ; ; - Photocopy from
[2116]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2118]132275518 Page 30
[2120]SECREI 39
[2122]c
[2123]3 z .
[2124]¢ Q But the intention was to reach Cuba.
[2125]= 2
[2126]& if A Reach Cuba.
[2127]3 a
[2128]> “ 4 Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to
[2129]z 4
[2130]as Swan. Were there others?
[2131]5
[2132]A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
[2133]6 ae Lo. : . .
[2134]Miami. I think there was one -- yes, there was one in Miami,
[2136]: I think, and one down in Kev West that they used.
[2137]8 . Q Where was Radio Swan located?
[2138]9 ; A On Swan Island.
[2139]re Co ee
[2140]aN, Q Where is Swan Island?
[2141]11 : . . as . .
[2142]~ A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.
[2143]50. .
[2144]2 ar Q As far as you can recall, were there any other
[2146]a
[2147]: 12 : i : . . tae
[2148]* — radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
[2149]2 14 proadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
[2150]aos A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
[2151]6"  f recall right now.
[2152]AT Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups
[2153]ié affiliated with the Agency to raise money from the American
[2154]3 i9 public to support those propaganda activities?
[2155]S 20 A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of
[2156]3 2£l. thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.
[2157]z 22°! re) Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were
[2158]. :
[2159]a gn . . : * . . .
[2160]i £5 run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?
[2161]2 24 A Oh, yes.
[2162]+ 25 9 Was anything of that nature done in connection with
[2164]SECRET —_Phetocory irom |
[2166]‘ Gerald Ford Library
[2167]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 31
[2169]SEGRE I 30 |
[2171]: i Cuban propaganda?
[2173]z e | A Not to my knowledge.
[2175]: & | Q And that would include both the publications and the
[2177]: 4° radio? |
[2178]5 : | A Right. | |
[2179]s : Q Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of :
[2180]? : moments . Could you describe for me briefly the type of :
[2181]§ economic activities that were conducted against Castro? |
[2183]! A Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the
[2185]regime, his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We
[2187]i
[2188]t
[2189]i
[2190]114 worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in |
[2191]t
[2193]- 12 |. the State Department and, well, for instance, in those days, f
[2194]: 13 | guess it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumped from
[2195]i a about @ penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like
[2197]16 | that, and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -~ Fidel kept 7
[2198]16! saying that he had such a soor crop and this type of thing and
[2199]fo.
[2200]itd we just couldn't figure our why he had such a poor crop becausel,
[2201]1a : some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihs
[2202]. 19 : this cane like mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,
[2203]20 this type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was
[2204]: on | lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any
[2205]E 22 | place. He had no storage facilities and put it any place he
[2206]. |
[2207]a 23 | could. oe |
[2208]2 4 -
[2209]: 24 | So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in |
[2210]3 as | New York, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a
[2211]H| - . i
[2212]|
[2213]| |
[2215]. Photocopy from
[2216]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2218]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 32
[2220]Praane (heer 202) S44 oou0g
[2222]WAM &-PaAUE
[2224]2000 4
[2226]Wantington, tC.
[2228]wb,
[2230]ety ta
[2232]ALG bast Gites
[2234]HW 50955
[2236]Lory >
[2238]“oh
[2240]w
[2242]ares
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[2255]Oo
[2257]ta
[2258]ja
[2260]ta
[2261]an
[2263]SEUKE! 31
[2265]real tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.
[2267]It was this type of thing that obviously he was
[2269]trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any
[2270]money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we didn't]
[2271]i
[2273]want him to get the exchange. So it was those types of
[2275]activities.
[2277]Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. i
[2279]companies enlisted in that effort?
[2280]. !
[2282]A Oh, yes. :
[2283]2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and ‘
[2284]businessmen?
[2286]A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great |
[2288]many ~~ the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the
[2289]American community, sy American bankers, and obviously they
[2291]lost everything wnen they had to pull out. Sugar is the
[2293]lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this!
[2295]i
[2297]type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it!
[2299]was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.
[2301]QO What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain from
[2303]these businessmen?
[2305]A Well, we simply talked with them about why -- you
[2307]know, the market conditions. were, why the price was rising, if
[2309]we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would
[2311]happen to the market crice. This type of thing.
[2313]Q They were used as consultants,basically.
[2315]SE CRET Photocopy from |
[2317]Gerald Ford Library
[2319]Docld:32275518 Page 33
[2321]A
[2323]te
[2325]YO} 544-vO00
[2327]Q
[2329](Akruar 2
[2331]Cw
[2335]a Hey es Oe - 32
[2337]They were used as consultants, basicall yes.
[2338]Yr ¥
[2340]We have spoken about the investment American business
[2342]had in Cuba. Did it ever come to your attention that American
[2344]organized crime --
[2346]A NO.
[2347]_ 2 -- had considerable investment in Cuba?
[2348]? : . .
[2349]A No., Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in
[2350]& . . . 5 . .
[2351]Cuba. I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.
[2352]‘3
[2353]2 The casinos were run --
[2354]“ A I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force
[2355]_ during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this
[2356]Te , ¢
[2357]. tL . - .
[2358]3 « type or thing.
[2361]. “ 9 I understana that. It was fairly well known.
[2362]5 le en
[2363]7" A It was a criminal element.
[2364]=< 9 The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana.
[2365]1é A Right.
[2366]qn _ _
[2367]=! Q Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist
[2368]+ the support or assistance of any crime figures in any manner
[2369]3 iy whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the Cuban regime?
[2370]¢ £0 a No.
[2371]2 al Q Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?
[2372]3 22 A Oh, yes.
[2373]3 . .
[2374]3 ae Q When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?
[2375]5 ;
[2376]3 24 A Well, I guess it was -- it seems to me it was either
[2377]* 2s Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number
[2379], Photocopy from
[2380]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2382]HW 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 34
[2385]SECRET 33
[2389]2 !
[2390]3 u .
[2391]g } Of years. ago.
[2392]a 4
[2393]@ 23 . ,
[2394]é | Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's
[2395]q > i
[2396]> “ 4 name?
[2398]a 404
[2399]P A Yes, as I recall. |
[2400]P . |
[2401]~ Q Is that also true of Sam Giancana?
[2402]a 4 ; :
[2403]: A No. I have heard that name but I don't know where.. A
[2405]‘ Q In‘connection with -- |
[2406]8 i A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
[2408]9: Q In connection with the casinos or --
[2409]4 :
[2410]A No.
[2411]a Q -- gambling interests in Cuba? : H
[2412]aa if
[2413]: iz | A No. |
[2414]a 5
[2415]; Lz . ; _ . .
[2416]; ze} Q You know of. no instance in wirich organized crime
[2418]3 t5 figures were used as consultants by the Agency? |
[2419]LSE A Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge |
[2420]26" of that whatsoever. |
[2421]7" 2Q Do vou know of any offers of assistance from figures |
[2422]a _ |
[2423]ic of chat type -- |
[2424]‘ 1
[2425]“ 19. A Wo.
[2426]3 a -
[2427]& 7 : . os
[2428]é 2c 3 Q -~- who were interested in getting back into cuba?
[2429]S ‘ i
[2430]z 22 A No.
[2431]3 ' .
[2432]3 22 5 9 We were talking about economic warfare. We have
[2433]w a | ,
[2434]W -., ; 3 1
[2435]s ge | talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other
[2436]5 :
[2437]z 241 types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's
[2438]> 25 | cuba?
[2439]Photocopy from
[2441]: me SEC 2 ET Gerald Ford Library
[2443]HW 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page 35
[2445]SECRET M4
[2449]A Well, we used all-source information to find out what
[2451]2 . . .
[2452]i his commercial dealings were. When we would see -- well, for
[2454]Phone {Area 202) §$44-Go00
[2455]i
[2457]instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a. source owned |
[2458]i
[2459]t
[2461]“by the General’ Services Administration, finally got back into.
[2463]short
[2465]on
[2467]production and nickel, of course, and still is -~ was in
[2469]{Ty
[2471]supply. We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was
[2475]buving almost; the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this
[2476]© *  Brench firm ex ported zo the United States. So we went to i
[2477]2 : the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control
[2479]1s people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |
[2480], So they Looked
[2482]aan le-Nickel exports coming into the United States?
[2483]Ae * into the thing and indeed they did.
[2485]Who owned the mine?
[2487]fe!
[2488]C
[2489]O
[2491]WARD & PAUL
[2493]The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it
[2496]Te
[2497]3
[2499]on
[2500]oO
[2502]io}
[2503]4
[2505]I see.
[2507]pet
[2509]KD
[2513]Ly LB General Services Administration. And it was leased
[2515]out for operation. But the ownership rested with the
[2518]isp)
[2520]Ww
[2522]Government.
[2524]fe
[2526]20005
[2528]So the Treasury simply made the French provide a
[2530]ay
[2531]io)
[2533]for the nickel that went in -- they
[2535]oo
[2538]Certificate of Origin
[2540]Washingtua, Oc.
[2542]22 export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives
[2544]forks, this type of thing, and -~ you know, stainless
[2547]CA
[2549]and
[2551]steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply
[2553]ay)
[2556]iG Fisst Siscet, §. EB.
[2558]-- Treasury simply said you can't import any more into this
[2560]4
[2561]; Photocopy from
[2562]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[2564]HW 50955 Doeld: 32275518 Page 36
[2566]aw]
[2567]on
[2569]Phone {Area 202) 544-6000
[2573]12
[2575]13
[2577]WARD & PAUL
[2579]14
[2581]18 |
[2583]19
[2585]a
[2586]ies]
[2589]i
[2591]AlQ First Sircet, S.E., Washingion, B.C. 20003.
[2593]fae)
[2595]25 |
[2597]HW 50955 DoclId
[2599]20.,
[2601]SAD aS Fo
[2603]32275518 Page 37
[2605]SECRET ——
[2607]country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter
[2609]of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in
[2610]New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it
[2611]around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel -
[2613]found other sources and export privileges to the United States
[2615]were restored.
[2617]You know, it is -~ you just -- any time you raise
[2618]or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that |
[2619]simple. . |
[2621]Q Were there any other instances that you can recall
[2622]of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of
[2624]American business firms?
[2626]A I know we were in touch with a great many American
[2627]business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could.
[2628]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[2629](Discussion off the record.)
[2631]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[2633]Q When we broke for a moment we were discussing other '
[2634]instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of America
[2635]business .in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of
[2636]any other such instances?
[2638]A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having an awful time
[2639]with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats, were
[2640]powered with; Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg
[2642]people and told them -~ asked them to cooperate with us,which
[2644]Photocopy from
[2645]$s EC RET Geratd Ford Library
[2647]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2649]10
[2653]le
[2655]13
[2657]WARD & PAUL
[2659]L7
[2661]138
[2663]19
[2665]xe)
[2667]24
[2669]410 First Sitzet, S.€., Washington, D.C. 20003
[2671]25
[2673]22 |
[2677]SECRET oo ,
[2679]they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's
[2680]representatives around the world if they got any orders from
[2681]the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.
[2683]. We did the same thing with --
[2685]Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg |
[2687]compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?
[2688]A No.
[2690]Q Were they compensated for the loss of business
[2692]involved in that activity?
[2693]A No. No.
[2695]Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from
[2697]other companies.
[2699]A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.
[2701]Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in
[2703]that manner?
[2705]A No. Not a one.
[2706]~ 9 Were there any legal sanctions threatened against any|
[2708]companies?
[2709]A No. No.
[2710]QO Were there any sanctions. that could have been brought
[2712]to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with
[2714]Cuba?
[2716]A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.
[2717]Cuba. They couldn't get export Licenses from this country
[2719]anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the
[2721]SE CRET Photocopy from
[2723]Gerald Ford Library
[2725]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 38
[2727]pond
[2729]Phone {Area 202) 544-6000
[2731]WARD & PAUL
[2733]22
[2735]25
[2737]24
[2739]410 First Strect, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[2741]25
[2743]SECRET 7
[2745]Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause
[2747]in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --
[2748]foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with
[2750]the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated countay
[2752]And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried
[2754]to twist their arm.
[2756]Q Other than insuring that these companies refused
[2758]to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were
[2760]you receive from American ‘business?
[2762]A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would
[2764]legally constrained from doing, what other types of support aad
[2768]receive correspondence, particularly, say, from -- well, they
[2769]received it from Cuba asking for.publications and this type
[2770]of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing
[2771]to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in
[2772]some instances they might call me and I would just give them
[2773]a Post Office box to send. the correspondence to.
[2775]Q Any other types of support solicited or received by
[2776]the Agency from American business?
[2778]A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one
[2780]firm we approached, and God knows we approached [I don't know
[2781]how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of
[2782]fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,
[2783]that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the
[2785]government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but
[2787]SEC RET Photocopy from
[2789]Gerald Ford Library i
[2791]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 39
[2793]a
[2795]202} 544-6000
[2797]Poone (Area
[2798]Gt
[2800]q>
[2802]oO
[2804]Reo
[2805]es ra O oO
[2807]WARD & PAUL
[2808]i
[2809]Cr
[2811]410 First Street, $.£., Washington, D.C. 26003
[2813]HY 50955 Docid:
[2815]Q
[2817]A
[2821]A
[2823]Q
[2825]Q
[2827]A
[2829]Q
[2831]A.
[2833]SECRET
[2835]There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.
[2837]Did you identify yourself as CIA --
[2839]Yes.
[2840]~- in dealings with these companies?
[2842]Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even
[2844]the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all.
[2845]Let's talk about paramilitary operations. We started
[2847]but didn't really discuss that in any depth.
[2849]What kind of paramilitary operations were run
[2851]against Cuba by the CIA?
[2853]Maritime operations.
[2855]Is that the extent of it?
[2857]That is the extent of it.
[2859]Were there any aerial operations?
[2860]Not to my knowledge.
[2862]Leaflet drops?
[2864]No.
[2866]Bombing?
[2868]No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far
[2870]I am concerned that is the only aerial activity.
[2872]That was run by another directorate, wasn't it?
[2874]Yes.
[2875]Aerial photography, and so forth.
[2877]Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has
[2879]SEC RET Photocopy from
[2881]Gerald Ford Library
[2883]32275518 Page 40
[2885]38
[2887]outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera-
[2889]as
[2892]Phone {Area 202) 544-6000
[2894]WARD & PAUL
[2896]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[2898]HW 50955
[2900]he
[2904]22
[2906]25
[2908]25
[2910]SECRET 7
[2912]be requested and that is about it.
[2914]Q And those were run out of the United States?
[2916]A Oh, yes.
[2918]Q Can you think of anything, any other type of para-
[2920]military activity other than maritime operations.
[2922]A No. I really can't, no.
[2924]Q Am I correct ‘that those operations were manned
[2926]by CIA contract employees?
[2928]A Right.
[2930]o WhiGh would include Cuban refugees.
[2932]A | Right. °
[2934]Q. ‘And some:CIA officers?
[2936]A Right.
[2938]Q Any other branches of the services, Armed Services,
[2940]involved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs.
[2942]A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to rememba
[2944]that: probably down at our Domestic Training Station we
[2946]probably have people on-detail from other -- from the military
[2948]branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think
[2949]that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also
[2950]had people detailed into the Agency.
[2952]Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime
[2953]operations, I take it, was conducted in part within.the
[2955]United States and in part outside of the United States. Is
[2957]Photocopy from
[2958]Gerald Ford Library
[2960]that correct?
[2962]SECRET
[2964]Docld:32275518 Page 41
[2967]be
[2969]Phone (Aren 202) 044-4000
[2970]fav)
[2972]12
[2974]13
[2976]WARD & PALL
[2978]14
[2980]410 Fiest Street, $.0., Wastington, 0.0. 20003
[2981]tau)
[2982]ta)
[2984]HW 50955 Docid
[2986]t
[2988]- yaids. That is about the extent of it,
[2990]SECRET 7
[2992]A I would think probably the major portion of it was
[2994]conducted within the United States.
[2996]Q the Keys would be considered within the United
[2998]States.
[3000]A Oh, yes.
[3001]Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted
[3002]outside the United States?
[3004]A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not
[3006]to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall
[3008]but I don't think that -- I think all the training was done
[3009]domestically.
[3010]Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within
[3011]t
[3012]|
[3014]this category of maritime operations?
[3015]A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating
[3017]agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage
[3019]~ Q Now, when did. these.operations commence? Was it
[3021]shortly after the Bay of. Pigs?.
[3022]A I would -- I think these operations were probably
[3023]at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,
[3025]1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December
[3027]1968, something like that.
[3029]Q Why was the program terminated? ; _
[3030]A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provid-
[3031]ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,
[3033]SEC RET ‘ Photocopy from
[3035]Gerald Ford Library
[3037]139975518 Page 42
[3038]J
[3040]SECRET a
[3042]|
[3043]g |
[3044]: * | it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
[3045]: | getting wrapped up. We were -~ we just felt that the return
[3046]: ° | wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.
[3047]* * Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up.
[3048]. A Yes.
[3049]6 | Q ° What do you mean by that?
[3050]° | A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify
[3051]8 | him and capture him.
[3052]9 Q These various types of paramilitary operations that
[3053]40 were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the
[3054]it Forty Committee? _
[3055]3 12 A Every operation received a specific approval from
[3056]: 13 | the Forty Committee.
[3058]: i4 Q In advance?
[3059]is}
[3060]A In advance.
[3061]16 | Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for
[3062]iv | tsa age . |
[3063]initiating such an operation?
[3064]1s OA Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.
[3065]3 19 .or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache.
[3066]S
[3067]: 20 - Q You are referring to a cache of arms.
[3068]E el | . A A cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,
[3069]: 2 | whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have
[3070]: 25 | one of these operations and the request would go from here
[3071]; 24 | over to the,’ I guess to the White House and then the Forty
[3072]> 25 Committee at its weekly meeting -- they used to meet very
[3073]| SECRET Photocopy from
[3074]Gerald Ford Library
[3076]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 43
[3079]SECKE! 42
[3080]2 1
[3081]3 frequently -- they would either approve the operation or say
[3082]: 2 | no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because
[3083]g ~
[3084]: ° | the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper
[3085]2 ; i
[3086]" * | phase for communications and this type of thing. And these
[3087]° | things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of |
[3088]6 Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were
[3089]? | exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
[3090]g Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military |
[3091]9 | agency that had anyinvolvement whatsoever, and the entire |
[3092]10 thing was coordinated.
[3093]il Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations
[3094]3 12 that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?
[3095]: Ls A No.
[3097]3 14 Q What ‘kind of volume of operations are we talking
[3098]29 | about?
[3099]16 | A You are not talking about a very big volume of
[3100]i? | operations because of the planning that had to go into these
[3101]18 things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing
[3102]3 19 they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.
[3103]3
[3104]: 20 Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having
[3105]: 21 run 300 operations.
[3106]: RE | A I have seen that.
[3107]: 23 Q Is that inaccurate?
[3108]z 24 A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He
[3109]; RS may have considered some of the training exercises as opera~
[3110]SEC RET Photocopy from
[3111]Gerald Ford Library
[3113]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 44
[3115]SECRET 3
[3117], a
[3118]: + | tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one
[3119]fl 2 | of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother
[3120]é 5 | ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go into
[3121]é 4 | see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore
[3123]8 | before you go. So he may have considered that all these train-
[3125]6 | ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-
[3127]? | pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.
[3129]8 - Q Now, from what specific locations were these
[3131]9 operations launched?
[3133]10 A They were mostly launched from thesKeys.
[3135]i | ‘Q Any other locations?
[3136]: ie A Not to my knowledge.
[3138]: 1s | Q Now, would you describe. for me the kind of hit and
[3139]: 14 : run sabotage operations that were conducted?
[3141]is | A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against
[3143]16 the Texaco refinery.
[3145]i? | _Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?
[3147]is | A What used to be the Texaco refinery.
[3148]a 19 | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[3149]; 20 (Discussion off the record.)
[3150]E 21 | THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
[3151]2 i
[3152]3 22 went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.
[3153]i. i
[3154]: £5 | We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this
[3155]= i .
[3156]3 24 | type of thing to do the most effective damage. This was run. It
[3157]: 25 | was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was
[3159]j
[3161]h tocopy from
[3162]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[3164]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 45
[3167]| SECRET 44
[3168]|
[3169]2 | a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as
[3170]3 & | much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out
[3171]é 5 | because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type
[3172]i 4& | of operation that we did.
[3173]5 | As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn
[3174]6 | some cane fields. Really, the classical operations that we
[3175]Hi
[3176]7 | did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and
[3177]8 | exfiltrations.
[3178]9 | Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?
[3179]10 A Not to my knowledge.
[3180]LL Q Was it impractical to use the base there for -~
[3181]le A. Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that
[3183]13 I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him
[3185]WARD & PAUL
[3187]14 1 back. He wouldn't walk.
[3189]|
[3190]15 MR. MANFREDI : Off the record.
[3191]16 | (Discussion off the record.)
[3192]{ .
[3193]17 | 7 MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[3194]Le BY MR. MANFREDI:
[3195]2 19 | Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out
[3196]; £0 | ofthe Keys other than what you have just described?
[3197]i 21 | A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage
[3198]2 22 | kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained
[3199]: 23 | sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down
[3200]; 24 | crank cases. Things of this nature.
[3201]: 28 | One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage
[3202]i
[3203]|
[3205]SEC RET | Photocopy from
[3207]Gerald Ford Library
[3209]HY 50955 Doecld:32275516 Page 46
[3212]SECRET s
[3214]g
[3215]: ? : all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our |
[3216]: 2 own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We
[3217]s ° contracted with an American firm for that. And. we shipped
[3218]é & it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.
[3219]° ; The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the
[3220]6: automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking
[3221]? down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have
[3222]8 everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive
[3224]9 equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because i
[3225]1 i
[3226]10 : Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going td
[3227]| | ,
[3228]il i extend the credit. |
[3229]2 12 | The railroad system was in total disaster. The . |
[3230]< i
[3231]; 1s Soviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus |
[3233]5 14 ; the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment
[3234]15 because they were used to good American equipment. And these -
[3235]16 were principal targets that we were trying to get to. =
[3236]17 : _ Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of
[3237]is : any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run |
[3238]2 19 trom a base in the United States?
[3239]‘ 20. A No.
[3240]a |
[3241]3 al , Q I know there has been some paramilitary training
[3242]: ae in the United States. |
[3243]a i ; i
[3244]: 23 | A Oh, yes. |
[3245]: 24 | Q In connection with other operations.
[3246]7 ze | A on, Sure. Photocopy from
[3247]| SECRET Gerald Ford Library |
[3249]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 47
[3251]Phone {Area 202) 544-6000
[3254]10
[3258]12
[3260]13
[3262]WARD & PAISL
[3264]21
[3266]22
[3268]410 Fiest Sirect, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[3270]20 |
[3272]SECRET 46
[3274]Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that
[3276]were actually run out of the United States?
[3278]A No.
[3280]Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique
[3281]- situation.
[3283]A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.
[3285]me Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in
[3287]Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as
[3289]the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.
[3291]A That is right.
[3292]Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
[3293]A Well, we had. -- honestly, everything from a canoe
[3295]up. to three .to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers,
[3296]rubber boats. We-had a number of craft in, say, the 27 to
[3298]45 foot. length. And they looked like real tubs. They were
[3299]painted and they looked like they wouldn't even float but
[3300]they. had. the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any~-
[3301]thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under~
[3302]water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy.
[3304]Q . Did these craft operate under non-official cover.
[3306]in the Miami area?
[3308]A Yes.
[3310]Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one
[3311]firm?
[3313]A No. Variety.
[3315]Photocopy from
[3317]SEC RET 7 Gerald Ford Library
[3319]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 48
[3322]SECRET 7
[3324]if he got some time off.
[3325]: Photocopy from
[3327]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[3329]3 i
[3330]i * i “Q Fishing companies?
[3331]a A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine
[3332]: ° | supply. In all, I think during the period that the station
[3333]g if
[3334]. * i and these other entities were under commercial cover, or non-
[3335]° official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.
[3336]6 : Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any
[3337]; legitimate commercial activities?
[3338]& A Not to my knowledge, no.
[3339]9 . Q None of them -- were any of them in competition with
[3340]oa firms in that area?
[3341]| A These are probably what we would call devised
[3342]3 12 | facilities. They were probably registered with the State of
[3343]; 15 | Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one
[3344]z 1
[3345]3 14 | was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of
[3346]aa existence and started up a new one.
[3347]16 | Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running
[3349]i” i these operations?
[3350]12 | A Well, he was down -- this is one of the reasons, as
[3351]3 19 | I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
[3352]i}
[3353]: 20 | contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
[3354]3 el | under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.
[3355]: a2 | Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He
[3357]3 £5 : came back -~ he might come back once a month,.or something
[3358]= |
[3359]E £4 | jike that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks
[3360]= 25
[3361]|
[3362]i
[3364]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 49
[3367]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3369]WARD & PAUL
[3371]410 Firsi Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[3373]HW 50955
[3375]it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or
[3377]SECRET
[3379]Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were
[3380]actually stationed full-time in the Keys.
[3382]A Oh, yes. Oh, sure.
[3384]Q Were there any operations run out of the United
[3385]States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
[3386]sugar or anything of that sort?
[3388]A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the}
[3390]Puerto Rican thing?
[3392]A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind.
[3393]Would you describe that for me?
[3394]A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of
[3396]opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar
[3397]i
[3399]to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to
[3401]something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.
[3402]In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
[3403]drydock or wherever it was, they. had te remove the sugar and
[3405]put it in the warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came
[3407]up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -- there was
[3409]aA rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to
[3411]put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
[3412]acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the
[3413]individual, and some of this was done. . And then when it
[3414]leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar
[3416]firm buy it back from the Soviets. Shotocopy from
[3418]Gerald Ford Library
[3419]SECRET ord Library
[3421]Docld:32275518 Page 530
[3423]SECRET ‘9
[3425]jo
[3429]|
[3431]: | Q Bought it back from the Soviets?
[3433]6 .
[3435]: 2 | A Yes.
[3437]g ° MR. MANFREDI: oft the record.
[3439]3
[3441]é + (Discussion off the record.)
[3445]6 ; MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record. .
[3446]e | BY MR. MANFREDI: | |
[3447]? Q Are there any other operations in which crops were
[3448]8 | -- were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?
[3449]9 | A No. No. |
[3450]10 | Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? |
[3451]a4 | A In Cuban products?
[3453]: ik | Q Yes.
[3457]: | A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in
[3459]5 i4 | those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.)
[3460]25 | The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total | :
[3461]16 | chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn’t have |
[3462]7 anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.
[3463]ey There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around
[3465]3 *y with this big plan -- of course, there were a number of
[3467]8
[3469]; 20 experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.
[3471]3 21 I forget -- several other European and American companies that
[3473]: 22 || had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—
[3475]wl |
[3477]: 23 |) ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.
[3479]3 24 | Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to
[3481]3 25 Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and ~-- so he just put it
[3483]SECRET Photocopy from
[3485]Gerald Ford Library
[3487]HY 50955 Docld:322755168 Page 51
[3489]be
[3491]Pnone (Ares 202) 544-6000
[3495]a
[3497]WARD & PAUL
[3499]19
[3501]20
[3503]21
[3505]22
[3507]23
[3509]24
[3511]410 Ferst Street, S.E., Washinglon, 0.0, 20003
[3513]HW 50955 Doclrd:
[3515]13!
[3517]SECKET 50
[3519]+ on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too
[3521]| high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in
[3523]Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin
[3525]and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type
[3527]of thing. So he was helping us all along the line and
[3529]this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this
[3531]"type of. thing.
[3533]i : But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we
[3535]/ @idn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade
[3537]> and cut off his sources of supply.
[3539]: Q When was the Miami Station established?
[3541]} A As a station?
[3543]u
[3545]7
[3547]7 Q Yes. |
[3548]A I think in September 1961.
[3549]9 And that was several years before you became involved)
[3551]in Cuban matters?
[3553]A Yes.
[3554]Q Do you know of any other facilities of that nature
[3555]within the United States, Agency facilities?
[3556]A You mean, targeted against the opposition?
[3557]ie} Yes.
[3558]i
[3559]A A station as such?
[3560]Q Yes.
[3561]| A No. You have some communications facilities that
[3563]you really call stations because here again, they are not
[3565]SEC RET 1 Photocopy from
[3567]1
[3568]Gerald Ford Library
[3570]32275518 Page 52
[3572]Q
[3573]a
[3574]3 4
[3575]Oo ~
[3576]a
[3577]Tt
[3578]w
[3579]g 2
[3580]NM
[3581]é -
[3582]xt oO
[3583]2
[3586]a
[3587]2
[3588]4
[3589]a
[3590]8
[3591]9
[3594]2
[3595]18
[3596]” 19
[3597]Oo
[3599][=]
[3600]a
[3601]J 20
[3602]a
[3604]3 21
[3605]a
[3607]3
[3608]2 22
[3611]“= 25
[3613]2
[3614]a a
[3615]3 24
[3616]2
[3617]2
[3618]zt 25
[3620]HW 50955 Docld:
[3622]SECRET 51 |
[3624]directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of
[3626]overseas communications.
[3628]Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and
[3630]Office of Security officers, and so forth.
[3632]A Right.
[3634]Q But I am talking about actual stations. :
[3635]A Operating stations, no.
[3637]Q This is the only such station in the United States
[3639]o
[3641]as far as you know, is that correct?
[3643]A Right.
[3645]Q And was this station established to deal primarily
[3647]with Cuban activities?
[3649]A Yes.
[3651]. Q Cuban-related matters? |
[3652]A With Cuba, period.
[3653]Q Did it have, when it was established, any other
[3655]responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?
[3657]A Not to my knowledge.
[3658]Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities?
[3659]A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other
[3661]countries in the Hemisphere.
[3662]Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
[3663]activities, what was the size or the number of personnel
[3665]attached to that Station?
[3667]A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a
[3669]couple SEC RET Photocopy from |
[3671]Gerald Ford Library
[3673]32275518 Page 53
[3675]i SECRET =
[3676]3 couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
[3677]: 2 Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees,
[3678]: ° independent contractors, probably another. 200 minimum. It was
[3679]. * , Obviously the largest installation we had. I think at its
[3680]° | height it had over 500 people in it.
[3681]6 (6) Full-time Agency people? ; i
[3682]? A No, no.
[3683]e Q Combination of contract and -- |
[3684]9 ‘ A And full-time, yes. A regular employee we call a staff
[3685]H
[3686]10 | employee. |
[3687]ii Q Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract |
[3688]3 12 | people? |
[3689]: 15 | A Yes. |
[3690]5 14 | Q Even though he was located down in the Keys?
[3692]298 A Oh, yes.
[3693]16 Q And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
[3694]17 | Miami? Physical facilities.
[3696]18 | A Well, they were located on the south campus of the
[3697]3 19 University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at
[3698]: 20 the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained
[3699]3 a1 unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn
[3700]: a2 well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the
[3701]Fi
[3702]i 25 Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.
[3703]: 24 | Q official cover?
[3704]3 25 | A No. Non~official. ‘ photocopy from
[3705]| d Ford Library
[3707]| . Geral
[3708]i
[3710]SECRET
[3712]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 54
[3714]Phone (Area 202) 544-6660
[3716]WARD & PAUL
[3718]410 First Street, S.E., Wasnington, 0.C. 20003
[3720]HW 50955
[3722]10
[3723]“Al
[3725]12
[3727]18
[3728]19
[3729]20
[3730]al
[3732]22
[3734]23 |
[3736]24
[3738]25
[3740]Docld:
[3742]. for. yours ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts.
[3744]Q Non-official cover. What was the cover?
[3745]A It was a commercial cover. It was called -- the first
[3746]one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a
[3748]President and Vice President, normal corporate setup.
[3750]Q Engaging in any business?
[3751]A No.
[3752]Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,
[3754]i
[3756]how long could a non-official cover last?
[3757]A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research
[3758]activities. Funded -~ it-is a giant mechanism when you put
[3760]one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,
[3762]Q ‘Yes, I understand. |
[3763]j
[3765]A So it was a research activity and’ the only people that
[3766]ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You
[3767]know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept
[3768]any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
[3769]type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And.out of.
[3770]this. onéy thing, of course, then we were running these innumera-
[3771]ble.-6ther~covers with different activities. The guard
[3773]force, of course, were like -- well, they wore uniforms, similar
[3775]to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think
[3777]that there was -~ in the later days at that site I think the _
[3778]Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other
[3780]Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.
[3782]s E C R ET Photocopy from
[3784]Gerald Ford Library
[3786]32275518 Page 55 _
[3788]Pnone (Arca 202} 544-6000
[3790]WARD & PAUL
[3792]410 First Street, $.E., Washington, O.C. 26003
[3794]HW 50955
[3796]po
[3798]CH
[3800]20
[3802]al
[3804]Ze
[3806]23
[3808]24
[3810]25
[3812]Docid:
[3814]DECKET 54
[3816]Q And this particular Station, then, was under the
[3817]supervision of the group we have been discussing?
[3819]A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.
[3821]Q When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume
[3822]responsibilities for the Miami Station?
[3824]A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the
[3826]Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western
[3828]Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division.
[3830]9 Is there presently a Miami Station?
[3832]A Oh, yes.
[3834]Q And how large is it at the present time?
[3836]A Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the
[3838]Cuban Operations, I don’t know how large it is at the present
[3840]time because we are in one of these periods: where: we -are
[3841]reassigning people, -but I think by the end of this fiscal year
[3842]there’are going to be between 11 and 14 people.
[3844]Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions
[3845]were being performed by’ the Miami Station?
[3847]A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I
[3848]think I have lined them out at:one time ---collection of
[3849]positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this
[3850]type of thing. Covert action.
[3852]Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in
[3854]the deposition?
[3856]Photocopy from
[3858]A Yes.
[3859]. Gerald Ford Library
[3861]SECRET
[3863]32275518 Page 56
[3865]DSECKET 5
[3868]tl
[3869]Da
[3870]: | Q Which of these activities, if any of them were
[3871]“ | actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?
[3873]: 5 A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably
[3874]z 4 counterintelligence. — oe
[3875]° Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence
[3877]6 | activities in the Miami area?
[3878]7 A Yes, sir.
[3879]8 | Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter-
[3880]9 intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting
[3881]10 | in that area or was conducting in the area at that time? |
[3882]li | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I
[3883]3 12 recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent that
[3884]: 1s | came in by small boat and when she was -~ she came in with a |
[3886]3 14 | number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep- |
[3887]16 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.
[3888]16 The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there. and.
[3889]17 | we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration
[3890]18 | and, Naturalization Service cover. When the LEW people did the
[3891]3 19 | preliminary interrogation of these people they had to. fill
[3892]: 20 | out forms, where .were you born, this type of thing, biagraphic+
[3893]: a1 | type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our~peopte who would
[3894]: ae look at the forms and based on previous experience or what
[3896]: 25 they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they
[3897]i a4 might have some information of intelligence value, they would
[3898]= 25 reinterrogate them. /
[3900]: Photocopy from
[3902]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[3904]HY 50955 Docld:322755168 Page 57
[3906]te
[3908]ay)
[3910]Piione (Area 202) 544-6000
[3912]WARD & PAUL
[3913]be
[3914]w
[3916]20
[3918]21
[3920]22
[3922]23
[3924]V10 Tarst Stezet, S.E., Wasinagicn, D.C. 20003
[3926]ay)
[3927]an
[3929]HW 50955 Docrd:
[3931]‘tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from. --'
[3933]a fhe Sos EES
[3935]It was in this manner that this gal came to our
[3937]knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined
[3939]that obviously she was receiving messages and she was [
[3940]sending messages. So along with the Bureau we put a surveillan
[3941]on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and |
[3942]indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock |
[3943]or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found |
[3944]it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that
[3946]was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved
[3948]in.
[3950]Q Were there many activities of that type?
[3952]A Not really. You have got to remember that the |
[3953]Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large !
[3954]squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some-
[3955]thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of
[3957]hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-
[3959]in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
[3960]which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting
[3961]to Case Officers and they would report on things in the
[3962]community, of people they thought were suspect and this type
[3964]of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
[3965]and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved
[3967]in CI activity.
[3969]Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI
[3971]SEC RET . Photocopy from
[3973]Gerald Ford Library
[3975]32275518 Page 58
[3977]o
[3979]8 1
[3983]3
[3985]sg 2
[3989]cs 3
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[4047]3
[4049]* 25
[4051]SECRET 1
[4053]activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-
[4054]whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability
[4056]to properly staff the thing?
[4058]A Yes, yes. You have got to remember, too, that a lot
[4059]of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section '
[4061]of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is
[4063]known as Legal Attaches, obviously working out of the Embassy |
[4065]the same as our Station was, and a lot of our Station officers
[4067]from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a
[4069]relationship there that had gone over a period of years
[4071]f
[4073]i
[4075]|
[4079]|
[4081]|
[4082]between the Agency and the Bureau. |
[4083]MR.MANFREDI: We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock. i
[4085]|
[4086]|
[4087]|
[4088]|
[4090](Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of-
[4092]the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this
[4094]same day.)
[4096]Photocopy from
[4097]Gerald Ford Library
[4099]N
[4101]SECRET
[4103]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 59
[4105]COLERAINE TINS 2 i SECRET
[4107]fig mbh
[4108]o
[4109]8 1
[4110]a 2
[4111]z 3
[4112]E 4
[4113]5
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[4123], “13
[4124]Q
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[4126]3 14
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[4128]16
[4129]17
[4130]18
[4131]~ 19 |
[4132]5 20
[4133]a
[4134]3 21
[4135]3 22
[4137]* 23
[4138]5 24
[4139]3
[4140]3 25
[4141]HW 50955 Doacid:
[4143]Thereupon,
[4144]WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
[4145]called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA
[4147]i Activities, and having been first dulv sworn bv the Notary
[4149]' Public, was examined and testified as follows:
[4150]EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)
[4152]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[4154]Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the
[4156]| largest CIA station in the world?
[4158]| A. The largest CIA station in the.world.
[4162]| 0. At its heiqht?
[4164]A Nothing comes anvplace close to it.
[4166]i 0. I wonder if vou could describe briefly for the record
[4168]A. Well, the AiOTs were Cuban a Cuban intelligence
[4169]organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
[4170]overall contingency plan that US Government had. Should Castro
[4171]ever be overthrown, these people would be the nucleus to go into
[4172]i Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior.
[4174]‘0. “Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
[4175]for Security Agency?
[4177]A. Well, in most countries of the world the Ministrv of
[4179]Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.
[4181]Phot | from
[4182]SEC RET | Gerald Ford Library
[4184]32275518 Page 60
[4186]0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the |
[4188]j
[4190]58 |
[4191]I AFTERNOON SESSION :
[4194]“ ao Ee es PR o7
[4196]|
[4197]8 L 0. And these people were Cuban exiles?
[4198]: |
[4199]a 2! A Cuhan exiles.
[4200]R
[4201]i 5 | 0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS?
[4202]8 4 | A, Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures
[4203]5 | but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to ~- |
[4204]6 | 0 Go ahead.
[4205]% . A. Probably closer to 159, something like that.
[4206]8 | Q, Now, would that i509 persons be included within the |
[4207]9 | three to 599 who made up the Miami Station? |
[4208]10 A No. |
[4209]il Q, That was over and above the personnel of the Miami
[4210]; 12 Station?
[4211]i 13 A, Right. :
[4212]a
[4213]ta 0. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?
[4214]5 | A. Right. WE11, let me -= these people really were -= |
[4215]16 _ they were being subsidized by the Agencv. They: were employed
[4216]vy | Byestio=cover:‘conpanies, the largest of which was called. Latin
[4217]jg | AMerican“Social and Economic Research. Then we had another
[4218]. va | sates qroup that did the interrogating and they were under
[4219]: 20, ‘another’cover, commercial «cover, -- I just don't recall what it
[4220]6 ;
[4221]: 21 | was. But these peop.e ostensibly were employees of these wholliv
[4222]: 22 | owned proprietaries of the Aqencv. Thev were dulv constituted,
[4223]‘ a3 | incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing. |
[4224]: 24 0. The salaries of these neonle, although paid indirectiy}
[4225]: | were vaid bv the CIA?
[4226]2 ops |
[4227]| Photocopy from |
[4228]|
[4229]| |
[4231]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[4233]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 61
[4235]~ ad ie ne BRS 8 50
[4237]3 1 : A. That is right.
[4238]: |
[4239]5 2 i 0. And was training provided.them by the Agency?
[4240]st [
[4241]i 5 i) Oh, ves.
[4242]E 4 A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made
[4243]5 up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?
[4244]6 A. Right. :
[4245]9 0. When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring tq
[4246]8 ! debriefings? | |
[4247]9 : A I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles |
[4248]10 or perhaps exiles that had heen in the country whom during thein
[4249]il time here had acquired new information. |
[4250]| 12 0. How were those -- how and where were those debriefingg
[4251]13 | conducted?
[4252]i 14 : A, Well, normaliv the debriefings were conducted at Opa
[4253]15 Loca.
[4254]16 0 That is the Air Base?
[4255]19 A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the
[4256]. 18 ; reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in. |
[4257]3 19
[4258]& Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had
[4259]Q
[4260]2 a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.
[4261]: small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them
[4262]| down, under controlled conditions,and debrief them without anv
[4263]: interference and this type of thing.
[4264]: 0. For how lonq a period did these debriefings go on?
[4267]SECRET [ ~ Photocopy from
[4269]Gerald Ford Library
[4271]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 62
[4273]. we WIE §
[4275]3 1 : A. You mean in terms of vears?
[4276]3 = A. Well, I would think that I would probably say from
[4277]E 4 | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --
[4278]5 we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out |
[4279]6 and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -= cut off
[4280]9 ‘ about, I quess about 1970 or '71, in that timeframe -~
[4281]8 | 0. I see, |
[4282]9 A -- that stopped the flow of the refugees, so we just |
[4283]1c terminated that part of the activity. |
[4284]li 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came |
[4285]; 12 in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any other
[4286]i / intelligence gathering functions -- |
[4287]Pu, Ho |
[4288]ae : 0, In the community? ~
[4289]vA : A Well, I can't give vou a real ves or no-to that. I
[4290]io would suppose that: there is-an outside possibility they could
[4291]ie have been used to debrief people within the community, within
[4292]a the Cuban community, but we had in the organization -- all these
[4293]people were Cuban’ with the exception of we had what we call an
[4295]On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime: staff-emplovee and he
[4296]had a couple of assistants, including a secretarv. These people
[4298]were directly under his control: Though the organization as it
[4300]was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,
[4302]to
[4303]i
[4305]910 First Sircet, $.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[4307]but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Officer.
[4309]Phot from
[4310]SECRET Gorsid Ford Library
[4312]tay)
[4315]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 63
[4317]Pirane (Area 202) 544-6000
[4318]oo
[4322]Oo
[4324]WARD & PAUL
[4328]23
[4330]24
[4332]410 First Street, $.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4334]25
[4336]HY 50955 Docld:
[4338]_ SECRET 62
[4340]Of course, if these people went out and did something on
[4342]; their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.
[4343]: You can't == you know what they are doing during their eight or
[4344]i ten hours that thev are going to work evervday but once they
[4346]i Leave, we don't know what they are up to.
[4348]0. Did they have CIA credentials?
[4350]|
[4351]i
[4352]i
[4353]| |
[4354]A. No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this |
[4355]commercial cover. |
[4357]0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these |
[4358]people other than in their duties -- in their debriefing |
[4359]capacitv, I should sav?
[4361]A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a
[4362]standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence
[4364]interest or a battle, you know, anvthing -= economic questions,
[4366]morale, and this type of thing. When these questions ~~ when.
[4368]| report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over to the Station.
[4370]cea the debriefing report contained something of positive
[4371]intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
[4372]| Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot
[4374]down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be
[4376]recontacted and asked specific. questions.’
[4377]Q Now, in addition to'debriefing, what else did this
[4379]smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area?
[4381]these people were cebriefed and the. debriefer wrote up the
[4382]A. This was their prime purpose. |
[4384]Photocopy from
[4385]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4387]32275516 Page 64
[4389]7° SEGKEE 63
[4391]g 1 0 How large was that particular group?
[4392]; 2 i A. Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,}
[4393]é Sj I think there were about five debriefers with the support people
[4394]3 4 which would he secretaries, translators, strictly administrative
[4395]5 | types. I don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15
[4396]6 ‘ in that aroup, if there were that many.
[4397]5 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
[4398]8 (Off the record discussion) |
[4399]9 | BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[4400]16 0. Before we move on to further. discussion of the AMOTS !
[4401]11 could. you briefly describe for.mé what role the CIA plays in |
[4402]| 12 resettling Cuban emigres?
[4403]i 13 A CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emigres.
[4404]: 4! ia What Agency is charged with that responsibility?
[4405]15 | A Health, Education and Welfare.
[4406]16 0. Noes CIA plav anv role in that process?
[4407]9 A We may assist if we are. asked but the idea of the whole
[4408]18 airlift was having relatives here. for somebodv to claim you when
[4409]. 19 you came in so you wouldn't become a ward of the State of the
[4410]: 20 Government, and normally when these refugees came.in, thev were |
[4411]G 4 {
[4412]: 21 | processed through the Center and then they had a place down on
[4413]f 29 | Biscavne Boulevard thev called Freedom House and this was, of
[4414]3 !
[4415]J 23 course, all run by HEW, and they -- if need be and thev had to
[4416]: 24 stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and
[4417]E care for them in Freedom House.
[4418]° 20 | ; . Photocopy from _
[4419]| SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4421]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 65
[4423]SEGRE E O4 |
[4425]|
[4426]|
[4427]| Then as soon as they could, of course, they- would move ner
[4428]|
[4430]2 i
[4431]fo] H
[4432]2 Li
[4434]3 . 9 1 to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the
[4435]2 :
[4436]os |
[4437]5 5 relatives were, this tvpe of thing, and we had nothing to do
[4438]2 i
[4439]é 4 | with that whatsoever.
[4440]‘i
[4441]i a,
[4442]5 Hi 0. Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the
[4443]i
[4444]6 i two groups, what was the name of that group again? f
[4445]|
[4446]” ii A, SASER, Latin American Social and Fceonomic Research.
[4447]8 | 0. We can call them LASER for short? |
[4448]i :
[4449]9 | A Reallv, they are both -- the onlv reason we separated
[4450]I
[4451]10 the two groups was for security because we had one group housed j
[4453]+4 | over here and the smaller group was over here. Obviously we
[4454]il | |
[4455]le couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so
[4456]2 a
[4457]3 i .
[4458]a 13 | that is why we took the smaller establishment to preserve some |
[4459]2 vs '
[4460]9 | |
[4461]< va cover. |
[4462]i |
[4463]15 | 0 Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged i
[4464]in?
[4465]16!
[4466]H
[4467]1 i A. WEL1, the larger group was engaged in the collection
[4468]18 of intelligence. Shey compiled dossiers on the principals
[4469]19 | inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every
[4470]2 9 |
[4471]e 20 | refugee that came throuch the reception center. They provided --
[4472]¢ 2 they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a
[4473]¢ 1 . ,
[4474]5 22 | monthly newsletter based on the information they collected.
[4475]3 i ;
[4476]4 52 l The information these people collected as opposed to the i
[4477]§ . |
[4478]9 t
[4479]\ 3 ; information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That |
[4480]3 24 ; |
[4481]3 came from -- all the information thev had came from human sources
[4482]= 26 |
[4483]|
[4485]Photocopy from
[4487]| SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4489]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 66
[4491]Phone (Area 202) $44-6000
[4494]. WARD & PALL
[4496]18
[4498]19
[4502]22
[4504]235
[4506]410 F ivst Sirceb, $.E., Washington, [1.0 20003
[4508]20.
[4512]|
[4514]| or overt publications. Ye subscribed -=- well, the proprietarv
[4517]i
[4519]subscribed to a number, a great manv newspapers, periodicals,
[4521]0 Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,
[4523]i .
[4524]| Spanish language type things.
[4527]| weren't they?
[4528]H
[4529]A. I don't know if you could call it clandestine. What
[4531]did you have in mind?
[4533]0. Well, would thev run agents in the community?
[4534]| A Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban
[4535]i community, yes.
[4536]0. and that is clandestine collection, isn't it?
[4537]A, WE11, I call that human resources.
[4538]| 0. All right. Where are these files now?
[4539]A They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of
[4541]1
[4542]I them were really destroyed. It got to be rather comic. We
[4543]|
[4545]to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great
[4546]information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a
[4547]gal who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won
[4549]a swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those
[4551]files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't
[4553]have any pertinancy at all.
[4555]A Right.
[4557]Dp
[4559]Are there. soft cover files as well?
[4561]|
[4562]i is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?
[4564]| ; SEC RET [ : Photocopy from
[4565](
[4567]Gerald Ford Library
[4569]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 67
[4571]| went down there several vears ago just looking through the files
[4573]Qa How are the files organized? You indicated before tha
[4576]For each Cuban refugee?
[4578]Not for each Cuban refugee.
[4580]SECRET
[4582]I would think,
[4584]66
[4586]I think, as I
[4587]A i recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,
[4589]5 | we had I guess the manilla files, probably went into the tens
[4591]Now, is there any wav to determine from those files
[4593]| which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens?
[4595]Has there been anv effort to make such a determina-
[4597]We made an effort at one time but this
[4599]So I take it -=
[4601]That is how far thev are behind.
[4603]So there is no central index vou can go to.
[4605]I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the
[4607]Absolutely true.
[4609]Now, are any of those files likely to contain
[4611]derogatory information about the individuals.involved?
[4613]-- you can
[4615]become nationalized out in California and your record of
[4617]i nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for
[4619]I mean,
[4621]| there is a central index you can go to but it.is.not current.
[4623]CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langlev on Cubans who
[4625]One of the things these people do, of
[4627]SECRET
[4629]1
[4630]8 | A Yes
[4631]g 1 | \* .
[4632]z
[4633]a 2 Q,
[4634]Fe
[4635]E 5 AL: No.
[4637]5
[4638]6 of thousands,
[4639]|
[4640]7 | Q.
[4641]8
[4642]0 A No way.
[4643]9 y
[4644]10 | 2
[4646]A,
[4647]a 12
[4648]2 |
[4649]< H
[4650]a =z |
[4651]8 13 |
[4653]s 14 |
[4654]se | two years.
[4656]16 | 0
[4657]i A
[4658]17 |
[4659]i
[4660]i
[4661]138
[4662]19 | 0
[4663]g
[4664]J 20.
[4665]a . °
[4666]¢ 21 are now American citizens?
[4668]ud i
[4669]“A i 0
[4670]as |
[4671]2 24
[4672]e A Well, no.
[4673]7 25
[4674]|
[4676]HY 50955 Doeld:32275518 Page 68
[4678]f Photocopy from
[4680]{ Gerald Ford Libr
[4682]—,
[4685]ary |
[4689]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4691]WARD & PAUL
[4693]410 Fast Sticet, SE, Wastingtan, D.C. 20003
[4695]HW 50955
[4697]Ne]
[4699]Docid:
[4701]a SEGRE T 67
[4702]course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from
[4703]anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a
[4704]Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people
[4705]as. possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask
[4706]that all the information on that individual be assembled so that
[4707]we could do a complete target study -- habits, you know,
[4709]evervthing right down the line. In case of some of the more
[4711]important ones, of course, we had psvchological studies prepared
[4713]where we had enough information. But this is one of the things |
[4714]. |
[4717]these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on th
[4719]first.mate of the -~ one of the Cuban ships, then thev would |
[4720]start looking through the papers or anything else to come up |
[4721]with anything thev could on what the guy's current activities !
[4722]are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.
[4724]0 Well, the AMOTS were going to be the intelligence
[4725]service of Cuba?
[4727]A. Right.
[4729]a And they obviously were going to perform some function
[4730]in addition to recruitment of agents?
[4732]A. Right.
[4734]0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence,
[4735]gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the
[4736]traditional skills, is that correct?
[4738]AL: That is about right.
[4740]0. So I trust that they had files that were amassed for
[4742]SE C RET Photocopy from |
[4744]Gerald Ford Library
[4746]32275518 Page 69
[4748]Phone {Area 202) 344-6000
[4749]Cl dO
[4751]Ct
[4753]WARD & PAUL
[4754]W
[4755]CN
[4757]18
[4759]19
[4761]20003
[4763]20
[4765]al
[4769]4 Viasbingioa, O.c.
[4771]S.0
[4773]24
[4775]FLO Farst Stevet,
[4777]25
[4779]HY 50955 Docld:
[4781]* ao ie es BRE Hi 68
[4783]purposes other than recruitment?
[4785]A. )06Well -=-
[4787]0. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these
[4788]files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible
[4789]internal security problem?
[4791]A. No. No. They didn't keep those types of files. We
[4792]would simply task them with through your sources what do you
[4793]have on so and so. They would not be told the reason why we
[4795]wanted the information on anvhbodv.
[4797]0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several
[4798]million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
[4799]make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
[4800]those files?
[4802]A. Well, that is right.
[4804]0 So I guess I won't ask vou to do so, but I want to ask
[4806]vou this. I trust that there is the possibility that some of
[4808]these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga~
[4809]tory information?
[4811]A I would assume so.
[4813]0. And that so much of them may -- some of the subjects
[4814]of those files mav now be American citizens?
[4816]A Right.
[4818]0 And finally I take it that no effort has been made to
[4820]studv that particular situation?
[4822]A. WELL, we did make an effort to do it at one time.
[4824]; a
[4825]Phot from
[4826]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[4828]32275516 Page 70
[4830]1 4 <a g -
[4831]2 SECRET 69 |
[4832]| .
[4833]3 t
[4834]8 1 | You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,
[4836]= 2 | whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their
[4837]=]
[4838]is]
[4839]5 3 names turn up on manifests and this type of thing. Well, these
[4840]E 4 | are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards i
[4841]5 i were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
[4842]6 | at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
[4843].
[4844]7 jl what the machine system had to see if there was updated informa-
[4845]8 | tion in the machine svstem that would show that this guy had |
[4846], | become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So ==:
[4847]9 5
[4849]. t
[4850]10 | 0. Excuse me, off the record. |
[4851]11 (Off the record discussion)
[4852]12 | MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[4853]4 i
[4854]2 .
[4855]q
[4856]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[4857]3% 13 |
[4859]z ia | 0. I want to straighten out confusion in my own mind
[4860]z an
[4861]15 | where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are -
[4863]16 | presently here in Washington?
[4864]7 | A The cards and what is left of the files.
[4865]18 | 0. That is the soft cover files?
[4866]| A Yes.
[4867]” 19
[4868]8
[4869]8 0. And -=<
[4870]G 20
[4871]@ 21 A. I assume they are either here or down at the
[4872]5
[4873]g Records Center.
[4874]2 £2
[4875]4 2% 0 And where is the computer svstem?
[4876]F 24 A. You mean our machine system? We have --
[4877]S 5 | 0. The machine here that vou tried to match up with the
[4878]= Zz
[4880]SECRET . “Photocopy from
[4882]Gerald Ford Library
[4884]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page Ti
[4886]~~ Ete REG 70
[4888]ia
[4890]S
[4891]8 information on the cards?
[4892]3 i
[4893]s 2 | A Right down on the third floor.
[4894]8 3 | 0 That is not the hvdro system?
[4895]2 4 | A, Oh, no, no.
[4896]I
[4897]5 i 0 This is a separate --
[4898]H {
[4899]L _ . |
[4900]6 A, This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division
[4901]i
[4902]9 | uses this particular system.
[4903]i . 3 ‘
[4904]8 : 0. What kind of records -- «trike that.
[4905]9 | The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev?
[4907]} |
[4908]Ll n T thought they were going out in June. |
[4909]; A Well, okav. They are on the books until June.
[4910]F 12}
[4912]. 13 0. I see. |
[4913]: |
[4914]q 14 | A. But they have all been let go. They were let go ~~
[4915]3 { : : I
[4916]+, ] they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to
[4917]he
[4918]o find a job.
[4919]16 | g J
[4920]T 0. ‘Do they have any facilities, phvsical facilities, in
[4921]Miami at this time?
[4922]138 | ;
[4924]A nO.
[4925]o 19 |
[4926]8
[4927]& 20 0. So there are no records in Miami?
[4928]Y ‘ i
[4929]G |
[4930]Z 27 | A, No. No. We broudht all those records back here.
[4931]E 29 | Q. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities
[4932]: |.
[4933]a | in the Miami community?
[4934]|
[4935]2 23 |
[4936]3 | A No. No.
[4937]3 Ba)
[4938]S 25 | & t Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups?
[4939]|
[4940]i}
[4942]Gerald Ford Library
[4944]| . SECRET ‘Photocopy from
[4946]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 72
[4948]4 SECKE! ta
[4950]SERRE Eeeeaeeeeene
[4952]3 1 A Hot to mv knowledge.
[4953]z i
[4954]; 2 ; 0. What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that
[4955]2 !
[4956]é 5 ! was not doing debriefings?
[4957]2 4 | A. Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would
[4958]5 ti send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemispher
[4959]i
[4960]6 ; to train some of the local services in those countries. They
[4961]i
[4962]y served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in
[4963]{ listening posts where we had audio --
[4964]0. Foreign listening posts?
[4965]A, Oh, ves, foreign, ,
[4966]a) Any domestic listening posts? |
[4967]A, No, no.
[4968]‘ 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people? |
[4969]: | A I would assume -~- this I cannot answer because I reall
[4970]wg | don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but |
[4971]16 ' to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance |
[4972]1 j conducted by them.
[4973]se! “Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,
[4974]. me don't know where it could be.
[4975]: 20 | 0. What intelligence gathering activities did thev
[4976]6
[4977]: 21 | conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
[4978]3 \; ‘ .
[4979]E 22 | A One. of the big problems we had was within that Cuban
[4980]4 93 | community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
[4981]5 oa | castro groups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
[4982]: 25 | ana Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government
[4984]|
[4985]|
[4987]| Photocopy from
[4988]SEC RET Gerald Ford library
[4990]HY 50955 Docld:322755168 Page 73
[4992]Qa
[4994]Phone (Area 202} 544-6000
[4996]W>
[4998]an
[5000]NI
[5002]WARD & PAUL
[5004]22
[5006]235
[5008]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[5010]245
[5012]ad Ee oe RE rd
[5014]agencies in Miami plus’ the State government enforcement agencies
[5015]up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around -~ the
[5016]Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
[5017]about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they
[5019]started to tighten up.
[5021]I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing
[5023]alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when
[5025]there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these
[5027]‘militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked
[5029]up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau,
[5031]this type of thing.
[5033]|
[5034]|
[5035]|
[5036]|
[5037]0 These people were arrested? |
[5038]A. Oh, ves. |
[5039]0. Prosecuted? . |
[5040]A. Not really. .
[5041]0. Any of them American citizens?
[5042]A Not to mv knowledge,
[5043]0. This would be Alpha 66 type groups? |
[5044]A I don't know whether this guy ~- well, you know, they |
[5046]are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. [I don’
[5048]know if they ever did get him in jail but thev had him up on
[5050]He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever
[5052]served any time or not I don't know. ..I know he was convicted
[5054]so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.
[5055]but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. So
[5056]| |
[5058]| ( Phot f
[5059]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[5061]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 74
[5063]_ SECRET
[5065]8 5 I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went
[5066]= 2 . to jaul or not.
[5067]a i _ ;
[5068]5 5 i 0 Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
[5069]po i 3
[5070]E 4 . Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS
[5071]5 . engage in?
[5072]6 A. Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence --
[5073]9 I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest
[5074]8 at that time because we knew that thev were infiltrating agents.,|
[5075]6 Q ° Cubans were? |
[5076]: i
[5077]10 | A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well |
[5078]o . i
[5079]11 ; on the. airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
[5080]12 : young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't
[5081]iz: 13 — well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did trv to i
[5082]a oO |
[5083]a
[5084]& 14 identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.
[5085]3
[5086]ag 0. Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau? | ~
[5088]16: A. With the Bureau, ves.
[5089]1" . 0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
[5090]4 in a better position to do it?
[5091]18:
[5092]A Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big
[5093]3 190
[5094]g i factor.
[5095]g : ; .
[5096]. Q. And this was conducted through the AMOTS?
[5097]z i aA «Yes.
[5098]: 7
[5099]w " Qa How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
[5100]5 ; in the community?
[5101]z 24 | |
[5102]3 i A WELL, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I
[5103]+ 25
[5105][ Photocopy f
[5106]SECRET oy Gerald Ford Library
[5108]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 75
[5110]| ~~ po] ee |
[5112]would call a great. number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did
[5114]g !
[5115]$ 1 i
[5116]: |
[5117], 2 | come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the
[5118]cl |
[5119]g 3 | Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens
[5120]2 2 | to it because, yon know, vou just -~- unless vou personally know
[5121]| | |
[5122]5 | the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, vou might as
[5123]i
[5124]| .
[5125]6 well forget it. You have qot too many other things to do.
[5126]7 | 0, What other positive intelligence gathering activities |
[5127][
[5128]8 were they engaging in?
[5129]° A. Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engaged in |
[5130]19 | electronic intercept,
[5131]1 0. ' Where was that done?
[5133].
[5134]12 A Down in Florda, down in Homestead.
[5135]4 L
[5136]2
[5137]x 13 | 0. This is Southeast of Homestead?
[5138]co) 2s
[5139]2 if
[5140]é | A Yes.
[5141]s a j
[5142]+5 | 0. What ere they intercepting?
[5143]+5 |
[5144]16 I A. Well, originally they were set up to assist with the
[5145]i
[5147]| commo. for the infiltration.
[5148]|
[5150]As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made
[5152]138 |
[5153]; 3! available to intercept Cuban, communications, NSA‘ tasks them wit
[5154]: 20 | the frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications
[5155]G
[5156]: 21 i nets they wanted covered, such as the border guards. Another
[5157]i 20 | important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,
[5158]4 23 | sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior
[5159]i a | network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coverage|
[5160]E |
[5161]2 25 is. dictated by NSA. ;
[5163]Photocopy from
[5165]_ | | SECRET ; Gerald Ford Library
[5167]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 76
[5169]4
[5171]Phone (Areu 202) 544-6600
[5172]fae)
[5174]WARD & PAUL
[5176]© 410 Furst Street, $.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[5180]HY 50955 Docrd:
[5182]_ wi RE &
[5184]Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin require
[5185]ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently
[5187]because the common interests, -~ we have a common interest in
[5189]i
[5191]what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particular)
[5192]operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cuban's
[5193]were doing, then we would task our people with that. |
[5195]For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into |
[5196]Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then |
[5197]there was absolute silence. So nobodv knew where the thing was.
[5199]boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when
[5201]But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the
[5203]itgcame back on~the-air. And this is the type of thing. As. H
[5205]a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200!
[5207]Cuban: troops.
[5209].
[5211]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. -
[5213](Off the record discussion)
[5215]MR. MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
[5216]“BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5217]0 Were the communications: they were intercepting”
[5218]exclusively foreign communications?
[5219]A Exclusively foreign communications.
[5220]0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus
[5221]of which was the United States?
[5223]A. No.
[5225]0. These were basicallv Cuban Government ‘communications?
[5227]SEC RET . 4 Photocopy from
[5229]Gerald Ford Library
[5231]32275518 Page 77?
[5233]Prone (Area 202) 544-6000
[5235]WARD & PAUL
[5237]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.c. 20003
[5239]HW 50955
[5241]Loi
[5243]23
[5245]24
[5247]25
[5249]Docid
[5251]| EG IE § fe
[5253]A, Right.
[5255]| 0. On the Island?
[5257]|
[5259]| A. Right.
[5261]| 0. Or between the Island and other locations?
[5263]| A Yes.
[5265]i 0 But not between the Island. and the United States?
[5266]A. No. Let's go off the record on that. .
[5267](oft the record discussion) |
[5269]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5271]|
[5272]0. To vour knowledge were the .AM engaging in the |
[5274]intercept of any communications, either that facility or else~
[5276]7 where, in the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?
[5278]A, No.
[5279]i
[5280]0. Of other communications? i
[5281]i A. No.
[5282]‘yj 0. Is that their only intercept facility?
[5283]A (Nods affirmative)
[5284]0 Do you know of your own personal knowledge -- strike
[5286]that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,
[5288]| breakins or activities of thqt type other than what we have
[5289]discussed -=-
[5290]A No sir.
[5292]~~ that were conducted by the AMOTS?
[5295]i
[5296]i
[5297]A No sir. I want to go off the record a minute.
[5299](Off the record discussion)
[5301]Photocopy from
[5303]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5307]132275518 Page 76
[5309]Phone (Aiea 202) £44-0000
[5311]«oO
[5313]& PAUL
[5315]WARG
[5316]4
[5318]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20063
[5322]HY 50955 DoclId:
[5324]SECRET . -
[5325]BY MR, MANFREDI:
[5327]0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS
[5329]has been prepared by one of vour members.
[5331]A. That is right.
[5332]0. What is his name?
[5333]A. I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last
[5335]name. The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have
[5337]to get that for you.
[5338]0 What is the title of the study? |
[5339]A. The title of the studv -- it is part of the historical
[5340]series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The
[5341]AMOT Organization.”
[5342]0. What is the historical series of the Miami Station? |
[5343]A “Tt was done when: Paul Hennessey was down there. ‘wnat. |
[5345]we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is set aside
[5347]what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things
[5349]the station might do or that might occur in the station personnell-
[5351]wise, this type of thing, and.then these things are written.
[5353]0, I see.
[5355]A. At intervening periods of time.
[5357]Q When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?
[5359]A I think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68.
[5361]0. It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?
[5363]A. Yes.
[5365]Qa And purports to be a fairly complete history of the
[5366]|
[5368]SEC RET Photocopy from
[5370]Gerald Ford Library
[5372]32275518 Page 79
[5374]Phona {Ares 202) 944-0000
[5376]WARD A PAUL
[5378]» Wastungton, 9.0. 20004
[5380]phic, Soll
[5382]ALG bars s
[5384]HW 50955
[5386]Docid:
[5388]SECRET ns
[5390]activities of the AMOTS?
[5392]A It starts back in 1959 when we first started using
[5393]this gent..
[5395]0. First started using what?
[5397]A. First started using, I forget what his name was.
[5399]0. I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi-
[5400]| ties?
[5401]| A Yes.
[5402]| 0 And you have a copv of that in your custody?
[5404]A Yes.
[5406]0, I would like to see that document. And we will try
[5408]and obtain it through Hank Knoche's office.
[5410]A, Okav.
[5411]0 Excuse me just for a minute.
[5412]{Off the record. discussion)
[5413]MR. MANFREPDI: On the record.
[5414]BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would -- let me ask vou
[5415]this. There have heen some allegations in the press that
[5417]prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents
[5419]of the CIA.
[5421]us because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the
[5423]had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn
[5425]the examination over to him for whatever time he needs.
[5428]SECRET i Gerald Ford library
[5430]32275518 Page 60
[5432]Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join
[5434]Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing
[5436]re
[5438]ad is eos OS Ee 8
[5440]MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, Seorge.
[5442]H
[5443]z BY 4m, OLSEN:
[5444]" zi 0 Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin-
[5445]Zz oa . ' i
[5446]: ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,
[5447]z 4
[5448]by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your |
[5449]a |
[5450]contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
[5451]withing this country on behalf of the Agency?
[5452]? |
[5453]A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff |
[5454]8 |
[5455]which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the
[5456]9
[5457]Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in :
[5458]1c ee eee timene, | | |
[5459]a varietv of intelligence collection and operations. ;
[5460]74 .
[5461]9, Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff? H
[5462]5 Lé . os
[5463]: A. Desmond Fitzgerald.
[5464]2 13°
[5465]3 Q And who was his immediate superior? :
[5466]° ~* A Dick Bissell. ixcuse me. No. At that time it was
[5467]~~ Dick Helms. He was the DEP. |
[5468]16 -
[5469]0. Neputyv Director for Plans?
[5470]~ A Deptuty Nirector for Plans. i
[5471]: - i
[5472]13 . . ; .
[5473]~ 0 What period of time are we talking about now?
[5474]- 19 . . . oy
[5475]g A. Ye are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.
[5476]: 20 |
[5477]= : MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[5478]E al | (Off the record discussion)
[5479]= aa BY MR. OLSEN:
[5480]a - .
[5481]3 6 RG 0 So vou were not involved in this Special Activities
[5482]: aa % Group during the 1959 to 'S1 period? |
[5483]= 26 4
[5485]Photocopy from
[5487]| . SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5489]HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 61
[5491]— a a my uh
[5493]i
[5494]i
[5495]. . s 3 oa . . !
[5496]2 a Or the period leading up to the Bav of Pigs? i
[5497]S 4 : H
[5498]¢ - |
[5499]g A No.
[5500]a . |
[5502]“ i Q And vou were not involved in this program at all during
[5503]é 5 |
[5504]2 ithe same time that E. Howard Hunt vas involved in it?
[5506]A No.
[5507]5 :
[5508]0. Do vou know what «he vosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in:
[5509]6 . .
[5510]connection with the Cuban operaticns of the Agencv during the
[5511]7 . :
[5512]: period of 1959 to ‘Si?
[5513]BS 4 . ; :
[5514]Ay To my recollection, Noward Hunt was on the Covert
[5516]_ Action Staff dealing in provaganda.
[5518]4, Was this propaganda directed to the Cuban people in
[5520]this country?
[5523]3 A. Mo. Cuban people abroad.
[5524]2 LS
[5525]2 QO And what-was his connection with the planning for the.
[5527]2 i ms . :
[5528]Bay of Pigs? :
[5530]A. I would have to review the record to reallv answer
[5531]16 !
[5532]that. I don't know.
[5533]~ Q Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami
[5534]““ area? |
[5535]* 19 - . . . _ : :
[5536]3 \ A He commuted quite a bit.
[5537]x 20. ox eins .
[5538]a ‘ 0. Setween Washington and -= :
[5539]5 21: . a
[5540]2 : 4 Washington and Miami.
[5541]2 ‘|
[5542]= ae ° 0. ~= and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early
[5543]a -
[5544]3 RSs 4642
[5545]5
[5546]3 24 . ;
[5547]= a. Right.
[5548]a a Mr. Hunt has stated in his interviews and in his
[5549]‘ _
[5550]Z , SE € RET Photocopy from
[5552]Gerald Ford Library
[5554]N -
[5556]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page &2
[5558]ae ee a EA ie 8
[5560]|
[5561]|
[5563]3 1 : published materials that he was the person who was in charge of |
[5564]z 9 | organizing a political unit among Cubans in this country which
[5565]5 ij .
[5566]cs :|
[5567]Z Sj would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall
[5568]2 1 |
[5569]2 2 | where that was?
[5570]ss v i
[5571]5 By That could be auite true.
[5572]6 a Have vou reviewed, “Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
[5573]6
[5574]ry files relating in any wav *o the Cuban operations and particu-
[5575]3 ‘ larly with reference to wnether they reflect anv contacts i
[5576]9 between the Aqency and Prank Sturgis?
[5577]uf A. Yes. 5
[5578]3: a. Or Frank Fiorini?
[5579]ao? A. There is no relationship. H
[5580]me f '
[5581]Z lz 0 Is it vour testimony that the records and files of :
[5583]Z _ the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
[5584]3 14 . H
[5585],. . nature with Frank Sturgis?
[5586]rT A To mv knowledge chat is true.
[5588], oo
[5589]a 0. I take it from that that you are emphatic in your
[5590]1s testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency?
[5591]a A Extremely emphatic.
[5592]2 19 .
[5593]§ : 0. And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
[5594]3 20 8
[5595]2 27 he was never a contract agent of the Agency?
[5596]a te i
[5597]= . j
[5598]3 F A, Exactly.
[5599]Z 22 }
[5600]“ 4, Do vou know wherher he ever served in the capacity
[5601]POR, |
[5602]a ; of being an informer or informant to the Agency?
[5603]3 24 |
[5604]2 5 | A It is possible that he could have been a source.
[5605]7 25 5
[5606]i
[5608]SEC RET ; Photocopy from
[5610]Gerald Ford Library
[5612]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 83
[5614]3 -
[5616]fo] t
[5618]g i
[5620]5
[5622]a 2
[5624]2
[5628]a
[5630]2 —
[5632]gt o
[5634]2
[5636]3
[5638]a é
[5639]-
[5640]5
[5642]8
[5643]9
[5646]WARID & PALL
[5648]be
[5651]he
[5652]On
[5656]Io
[5658]om
[5661]Ne)
[5664]2
[5665]3
[5666]S
[5668]Waslit
[5670]Lay)
[5672]Sissel, Sok. We
[5674]UtO Fucus
[5676]HY 50955 Docird:
[5678]Sag? Gime “EE, em
[5680]4, YOu me@an a source of -=
[5681]A, Source of information of another aqent. Another
[5683]agency agent.
[5685]0. No the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?
[5687]Re To my knowledge I don't recall anything like that but |
[5689]it is entirely possible that “hat could have happened without
[5690]being a matter of record.
[5692]Qa Do the files of the Agency reveal anv instance what-
[5694]ever in which Frank Sturqis as ever asked to undertake anv.
[5696]kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agenev?
[5700]To my knowledge, nothing.
[5702]0 Do the files of the Agencv reveal any evidence
[5704]whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or
[5706]indirectly bu the Aqdency?
[5708]x To mv knowledge, no.
[5710]a) Now, when you say "to mv knowledge, no", in answer
[5711]to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that
[5712]you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the
[5713]basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files?
[5715]a On Frank Sturgis, ves.
[5717]0 Okav. During the veriod of time that vou were with
[5718]the Special Activities Group “rom 1963 to '66, first of all,
[5719]can vou tell us when that beaan in 1963?
[5721]a When the Special Activities Group --
[5723]Q No. When vour contact with the Special Activities
[5725]Photocopy from
[5726]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5728]i
[5730]322755168 Page 64
[5732]oe tm “al 2% iin Bi |
[5734]3 > Group began?
[5736]: i |
[5738]a ' 2 |
[5740]a 2 4 A It began -~- well, it began around June of '63.
[5742]od |
[5744]3 H . . . co
[5746]g 3 i: 0. Now, with particular reference to the last half of — |
[5748]< i .
[5750]z ‘|
[5752]z 2 11963, including whatever period in June '63 may not have been |
[5754]: |
[5756]= ‘involved, were there a creat manv. Cubans in the southern United |
[5757]4 ' States who were active in vravolutionaryv fronts that were beind
[5759]7 § sponsored by the Agencr?
[5761]A Wellm vou mean Acencv sponsored fronts?
[5763]Yes.
[5766]2
[5770]The Agencv subsidized these-fronts in an effort to
[5772]have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Castro
[5774]SECRET
[5776]2
[5777]39) factions. Obviously the leaders-of the fronts knew that the
[5778]a ac If |
[5779]Z i ae a |
[5780]* +% | CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
[5781]g 4 |
[5782]< ., , fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agencv ;
[5783]2 _~= - :
[5784]-. , or the U.S. Government. i
[5785]ar: 0. But when vou sav "supposedly," does the fact appear
[5786]! . |
[5787]~ -, , to be otherwise? i
[5788]ae . i
[5789]3 “A WELL, based on mv experience with the Cubans and this
[5790]ao 7 |
[5791]{ . ; . .
[5792]sq i type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
[5793]~ ag 0 H
[5794]im] : . }
[5795]g 50) it wouldn't take long for knowledge of any subsidy to surface
[5796]: i itself.
[5797]8 21 |
[5798]ey a i
[5799]3 22 | 0 Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.
[5800]2 me ft . '
[5801]© i i
[5803]3 53 Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be |
[5804]S of . .
[5805]A ., | bnvolved in the CIA orqanizations?
[5806]3 a4 3
[5807]= 4 . .
[5808]: 25 jf ‘ ves. Photocopy from
[5809]~ Gerald Ford Library
[5810]i
[5812]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 65
[5814]¢ n “ sg ‘ z .
[5816]8 2 0. And again with particular reference to the Miami
[5818]= i , -
[5820]4 i ~
[5822]Py 2 . area?
[5824]a i
[5826]3 sh A. Yes.
[5828]: | : |
[5829]2 eg O Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere
[5831]in the United States? <I am asking now particularly with
[5835]reference to New Orleans,
[5837]rep)
[5839]ane A. There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. tt am
[5841]really not familiar with chat happened in New Orleans that was
[5843]6
[5845]SECRET Photocopy from
[5847]Gerald Ford Library
[5850]' - 4.
[5851]> | Sort of a sideshow to Miami,
[5852]- 0 But the same is -= it is possible that some of the
[5854]-- #} Same Cuban organizations ‘rhich were being sponsored or funded
[5855]a_- i
[5856]i
[5857]ss) BY the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?
[5858]3 a
[5859]e . 4 a. I don‘t know if = can answer that, whether thev had
[5860]s ~o
[5861]a noe ; .
[5862]= -. {| the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for
[5864].. | subsidizing the Organizations in Miami was carried out through
[5865]-, | New Orleans.
[5866]aa d Q Well, can vou he more specific about what vou mean
[5867]_. - by that?
[5868]. AY Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we
[5869]S , were subsidizing there had *o be some ostensible source of
[5870]3 BC 4
[5871]2 _} imcome for them to continue what they were doing. A great
[5872]Kea 5 .
[5873]3 i mumber -= well, not a qreat number, but a number of select
[5874]3 225 .
[5875]“ ; people were -~ well, thev were selected and then thev were
[5876]a : talked to, to pose as trustees, if vou would, or directors or
[5879]3 ij whatever vou might have of some of these organizations in order
[5880]7 25
[5881]|
[5883]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 66
[5885]2
[5886]S -
[5887]3 :
[5889]2
[5891]$ a
[5892]a
[5893]2 -
[5894]t 2
[5895]7
[5896]2 -
[5897]a =
[5899]7
[5900]Ne)
[5901]A
[5902]3
[5903]6
[5904]J a
[5905]2
[5907]4 are)
[5908]3
[5909]z
[5912]25
[5913]am
[5915]7
[5916]Bel aw
[5917]Cc
[5919]: E20
[5920]3 v
[5921]o
[5922]5 23
[5923]3 oy
[5924]2 cra
[5926]va an
[5927]~ core
[5928]3
[5929]os
[5930]a
[5931]5
[5932]a 24
[5933]2 25
[5935]HY 50955 Docid
[5937]to Cubans or Cuban grouns?
[5939]ee |
[5941]to get the funding through to the organizations.
[5943]These people were normally prominent people and --
[5945]4 And did thev get funded by the Agency, then, through
[5947]the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople?
[5949]A These well-to-do people ostensibly would call a friendi
[5950]of theirs that had been made trustee of another type of activity,
[5951]and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this
[5952]type of thing. Could vour organization give us any monev, and
[5953]the guv. on the other end would say, sure, we can probably lend
[5954]you $25,900 or something like that, or donate $25,990, This is
[5955]the wav the funding went into the fronts.
[5957]9, And was some of that funding arranged through veonle
[5958]in New Orleans?
[5960]A. I would think so. Tf believe so,
[5962]D>
[5964]Were any of «he people in New Orleans through whom
[5965]that funding operation was effected peonle who turned out to be
[5967]invoived in the investiaqations conducted bv Jim Garrison?
[5969]“R - Nok to mv knowledce. : :
[5971]ror How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with
[5972]the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance}
[5974]i
[5975]i
[5976]i
[5977]i
[5978]i
[5980]A I couldn't sav. = am just not familiar with -- we hadi
[5982]a@ great manv people that did this. ; |
[5983]0. How about Clav Shaw? Was Clav Shaw ever used as a
[5985]funding source? ,
[5987]Photocopy from:
[5989]. SEC 2ET Gerald Ford Library , :
[5991]:32275518 Page 67
[5993]aa? On Sas BX Eee
[5995]x
[5997]1
[5998]'
[5999]; |
[6000]. 7 “3, This I do not know either.
[6001]3
[6002]3 2 9. Pardon?
[6003]z 5 a This I don't know.
[6004]3 a BY MR. MANFREDI:
[6005], i
[6006]5 0 Where would that information be available?
[6007]é A Well, we have a cuvy that used to work with me who was
[6008]Gown in New Orleans at that «ime. He would probably know.
[6009]9 - i
[6010]3 0, Is he in the building? i
[6011]t
[6012]re) A Yes. soa
[6013]+e a) What is his name?
[6014]++ A Bill Kent.
[6015]A |
[6016]16 Q Bill Kent! |
[6017]ad ~~ i
[6019]> _ A. Yes.
[6020]+ L
[6021]z -. BY MR. OLSEN:
[6022]_ a Who is 8i12ESenhic with now? Which department?
[6023]=e 7 |
[6024]. . . |
[6025]as A. He is still with the ppo.
[6026]as .
[6027]|
[6028]a BY MR. MANFREDI: !
[6029]_ |
[6030]_ a Western Hemisphere Division? i
[6031]Lé , |
[6032]|
[6033]_ A, No. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -~ I
[6034]x o>, think Career Management Group Staff.
[6035]J AG; !
[6036]: 3 ® - Is he officed near vou? i
[6038]= a No. He is cown in the basement.
[6039]2 22 - |
[6040]> ',
[6041]4 . BY MR, OLSEN: |
[6042]= Be |
[6043]s 24 Q. Do the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were|
[6044]z 4 |
[6045]oa ; : oo j
[6046]2 ag chat were used to orovide funds to the ==
[6047]= Pas) \
[6048]'
[6050]SECRET Photocopy from’
[6052]Gerald Ford Library
[6054]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 86
[6056]Phone (Area 202) 6449-6000
[6058]ies) - On Or
[6060]cD
[6062]'
[6063]Cr
[6065]WAKO & PAUL
[6068]ch
[6070]re)
[6072]20004
[6074]a
[6075]oO
[6077]ay)
[6079]Ly)
[6080]nO
[6082]4 Watinagtos, 6.
[6084]SE
[6085]n ~w
[6086]> Co)
[6088]ALG Ue Verced,
[6090]two
[6093]HY 50955 Docld
[6095]vad tee ee fe
[6097]A. Oh, ves.
[6098]0. -- to the Cuban movements?
[6099]|
[6101]Ay +@S5. |
[6102]|
[6103]0. No vou know whehter -= do vou know the identity of anv
[6105]of them in New Orleans?
[6106]A No. Ho. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took
[6108]llace in New Orleans.
[6110]0, I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary
[6112]for providing funds =o the Cuban fronts?
[6113]A The files chat Ihave don't reflect it.
[6115]0. I think we covered this already tust a few minutes aga
[6116]but let me make sure that we have: got it on the record. H
[6117]i
[6118]t
[6120]I understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963
[6122]shat larqe numbers or Cuban exiles, Cuban neonle in the southern
[6123]- |
[6125]United States, salked about and believed that they were involved
[6126]in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? 1
[6127]A. That is richt. : :
[6129]0. Was 12 also vour understanding and vour impression
[6131]that there was a qood deal of talk among this Cuban element in
[6132]|
[6133]the southern United States about plans or vrospects for the
[6135]assassination of Fidel Castro?
[6139]I would sav no. = don't think there was -- you have,
[6141]t
[6143]got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost
[6145]i
[6146]their homeland, their wossessions, they lost everything and they|
[6147]. i
[6148]i
[6150]blamed it all on one man.
[6152]Photocopy from
[6154]SECRET ‘Gerald Ford Library
[6156]:32275518 Page 69
[6158]2
[6159]= cal
[6160]2
[6161]~ 5
[6162]a <
[6163]Fi
[6164]3
[6165]o
[6166]co
[6168]WAG A PAUL
[6170]f
[6173]mn
[6176](ep)
[6179]sh)
[6183]an
[6184]Vv
[6186]teva, £2 OL
[6188](ae)
[6189]4
[6193]an
[6195]a
[6197]to
[6198]C21
[6200]Libbey
[6201]iy)
[6202]abe
[6204]Vd bei
[6206]on
[6208]HW 50955 Docld:
[6210]a He ot Tie
[6211]0, That is Fiedl Castrc?
[6212]A. That is right, and they would probably verbally do
[6214]anything thev could to get rid of him.
[6216]0, Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among
[6217]these Cubans?
[6219]A I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probablv was
[6220]a lot of talk about that.
[6222]0. Did vou participate vourself in the overhearing or
[6224]such conversations?
[6226]Ay Wo.
[6228]0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to
[6229]you?
[6231]A. Well, it was -- I really don't remember what the
[6233]source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the
[6234]Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing
[6235]that this subject alwavs came up. “What were they going to do
[6236]with Fidel? How are thev doing to get rid of him and this type
[6237]of thing. i don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the
[6238]Cuban exile community was discussing.
[6240]Q Yes. Do vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the
[6241]Agency in 1963?
[6243]A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
[6244]‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the
[6245]DDP.
[6247]a) This is vour hest “recollection --
[6249]Photocopy from
[6251]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[6253]32275518 Page 90
[6255]4
[6257]q 2
[6259]e
[6261]3 -
[6263]< o
[6265]z >
[6267]5
[6268]-
[6269]c
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[6272]a
[6273]o
[6274]g
[6275]g
[6278]12
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[6282]x
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[6286]< 5
[6288]2 a4
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[6295]wo
[6297]Waskingleit, Go, 2
[6298]an ia)
[6299]no ir
[6301]tei,
[6303]te
[6304]CA
[6306]PE dint Sees
[6307]tay)
[6310]HW 509545 Docld:
[6312]le thm Get BM ten Be
[6314]A, Yes.
[6316]9. -- at the moment. Is it possible that he was with
[6317]i
[6319]Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries
[6321]engaged --
[6323]a. I guess vou are right, ves. I believe he was there.
[6324]0 Did vou personally know Howard Hunt?
[6325]a. No.
[6326]| 2 Never men him?
[6327]; A iomet him. That is all. I can't say I know him.
[6328]' a You would not nave Xnown anvthing about his where-
[6329]abouts on anv particular dav, then. Is that true?
[6330]; A. Can we go off the record?
[6331]| (Off the record discussion.}
[6332]THE WITNESS: iet's go back on the record.
[6333]BY MR. OLSEN:
[6335]: Q I would like to have it on the record.
[6336]‘ A Do vou have a particular day?
[6337]0, Mo. I am just askina vou if vour acquanitance with
[6339]Hunt was such that vou sswould have known of his whereabouts on
[6341]anv particular dav.
[6343]s
[6345]A, ‘IO «
[6347]0 Was it very infrequently that you ever saw him?
[6349]A. Oh, ZI would see nim in the halls, this type of thing,
[6350]but -- bump into him rerhans downtown on the street. —
[6352]0. But vou would have no occasion for. knowing from one
[6354]i SEC RE ; Photocopy from
[6356]/ Gerald Ford Library
[6357](
[6359]32275518 Page 91
[6361]WAR & PAUL
[6363]BOQ S
[6365]-, Whasdpacaghar, 69 02,
[6367]at, oo €
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[6373]HY 50955
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[6398]CA
[6400]th
[6401]LS)
[6403]na? the Yas OY tha
[6405]day to the next where he was?
[6407]A No,
[6409]Q. Have you ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf
[6411]of the Agency as to where ne was on November 22, 1963?
[6413]A. Yes.
[6415]a) And when did vou conduct that inoauirvyv?
[6417]A. Eonave done it twice that I recall and the most recent
[6418]one was I guess -- I am just trving to think. Well, it wasn't
[6420]lonq ago hecause we did have an inquiry and we obtained the:
[6421]time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which
[6423]showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that day.
[6425]0 Was this just fairiv recently?
[6428]A Yes. ,
[6429]A, I understood from what files I have seen, Mr.
[6431]Sturbitts, that the coniv records that were available from the
[6432]Office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
[6433]during the two-week vav neriod ending the 23rd of November but
[6434]that the records were not svailable as to how much sick leave |
[6435]: |
[6436]~ . + i
[6438]or annual leave had been taken on any particular dav. ;
[6440]A. Well --.
[6444]9. Am mistaken?
[6446]A As I recall. he was in a duty status one dav and a
[6448]sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next day.
[6450]Z would have to check that with mv Budget and Fiscal Officer.
[6452]He is the chap that cot that for me..
[6454]Photocopy from
[6456]; SECRET | Gerald Ford Library |
[6458]Doecld: 32275516 Page 92
[6460]3 1 9 Can vou check that for us?
[6461]= 5 A Sure.
[6462]sg 2
[6463]3 5 0. And give us the results of that?
[6464]E a AL Yes.
[6465]5 0, Because this is much more detailed information than
[6466]5 I have been previoulv aware is available in the files of the
[6467]% Agency.
[6468]8 a. All right. I will do that.
[6469]3 BY MR. MANFREDI:
[6470]1c a) Do vou want to make a note of that?
[6471]11 A Let me have a niece of paper.
[6472]12 0 yOu might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which
[6474]; 1 is 351-5196.
[6475]9
[6476]= ve THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?
[6477]3 a=
[6478]—_ BY MR. MANFREDI:
[6479]_ a That is the dav.
[6480]_ A 1963.
[6481]17
[6482]- a. In response to whose inquiry was that investigation
[6484]made?
[6486]3 A Yt don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I
[6487]G 20
[6488]: ' don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether --
[6489]2 21.
[6490]3 “ twill just have to check that. I don't know who it was.
[6491]2 22 |
[6492]a And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the
[6493]= 23
[6494]3 ~ inquiry?
[6495]2 A No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefully
[6496]+ 26
[6498]HY 50955 Docld: 32275516
[6500]eg thea ‘at 8 tn 8
[6502]SECRET
[6504]Page 93
[6506]Photocopy from
[6507]Gerald Ford Library
[6509]7 GE “WSS ae
[6511]E 1 0. You said there was 4 previous inquiry?
[6512]: 2 : A Yes. The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt
[6513]i 5 who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief of
[6514]E z : European Division.
[6515]5 | 9. When was that inquirv received?
[6516]6: A That was about a vear ago, I guess,
[6517]9 BY MR. OLSEN:
[6518]8 0, About the first time these photographs began to be
[6519]5 circulated?
[6520]1 3 A ses.
[6521]wo 0. About the bums in Nallas?
[6522]le A Yes, and actually I think this -= Archie's inquiry |
[6523]3 |
[6524]= jz ; came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe, Archie was.
[6525]: ,;,  Chief.of Station, London, Zor a long time and he apparently
[6526]2 i¢ : ) i
[6527]-- Made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. |
[6528]16 0. This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm H
[6529]1 Magazine? |
[6530]_ A That is right. |
[6531]~ . i
[6532]19 0. And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with
[6533]: 50 the Office of Finance that it was positivelv ascertained that |
[6534]2 o1 dunt was on sick leave on November 22nd? |
[6535]3 aan ,
[6536]i 28 i A Well, I will have to check that. That is the way
[6537]: 23 I understood it but I did aet this through our Budget people who
[6538]3 24 have the contact with the Office of Finance.
[6540]: 25 | a And that he was on annual leave the day before?
[6543]Photocopy from
[6544]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[6546]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 94
[6548]Hf
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[6619]i
[6621]Oa EE “HE GEL TH, Ae
[6623]AL No, He was on a duty status the day before, on sick
[6625]leave, and then on duty status the following day.
[6627]BY MR. MANPFREDI:
[6629]0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's
[6630]previous pattern with respect to sick days had seen?
[6632]A, (Nods in negative)
[6634]BY MR. OLSEN:
[6636]a November 22, 1963, was a Fridav, When you say that
[6638]records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day -~
[6640]A It was a Tridav. Then I was mistaken,
[6641]Q Does that mean ne was on duty the following Monday
[6643]or on the next dav, Saturday?
[6644]ay No. On the following Mondav. I didn't realize the
[6646]22nd was a Fridav.
[6650]Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief
[6651]memo together with whatever supporting -- copies of supporting
[6652]documents vou can find?
[6654]A Okay.
[6656]o. As promptiv as possible on this question.
[6658]tH
[6660]think that covers the subject matter.
[6662]AR. MANPREDI: T.can give vou another moment iE you want.
[6663]Can vou think of anvthing else?
[6665]MR, OLSEN: I chink that is all.
[6667]jl .
[6668]MR. MANFREDI: Okav.: Off the record.
[6670](Off the record discussion)
[6674]; Photocopy fr m I
[6675]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[6677]“HW 50955 DocId:32275518 Page 95
[6680]BY Mr, MANFREDI:
[6682]a
[6684]2) 84-6000
[6686]24 0. Iam Sorry For the interruption but over’ the long
[6687]= tH
[6688]o !} .
[6689]z = J I think Probably I saved vou some time,
[6690]< H
[6691]2 HT .
[6692]2 24 We are talking ahout newspaper editors when we were inte
[6693]4
[6694]5 rupted == or when t invited the interruntion, I guess [I ouch
[6695]5 to be fair,
[6696]7 ‘Is it not « Fact that the Agency had some relationship w:
[6697]8 : some prominent newsvaner officials in the Miami area?
[6698]fol A Yes °
[6699]an 0 And what vas ‘the Nature of that relationship?
[6700]“ae A Traditionally the Chief of Station Maintained the
[6701]25 relationship with officials of the Miamy Herald, Particularly i
[6702]4 aN : : :
[6703]@ a : . ‘ . . .
[6704]2 -3 ' Latin American editor, as well as relationships with staff
[6705]z -. "’lembers of it, I think i+ is the Miami News and Stringers’ for
[6708]newsnaners ang "@riodicals Stationed in Miami,
[6710]a} what was the purpose of those relationships?
[6712]I reaily couldnt+ Sav what the Prupose of the relation
[6714]‘he
[6716]ship was, I mean, =he same reason that we establish a relation-~
[6720]Ship with the Press-in this town, There were certain things tha;
[6722]20003
[6723]ie)
[6725]might come to the attention of the press involving true names
[6727]a>
[6728]oO au:
[6730]S . i
[6731]= o- ' 4nd incidents that we fal+ should perhaps not. be Surfaced at any!
[6732]= an
[6735]= 9 | Particular time, !
[6736]2 BE {
[6737]. ~ H
[6738]4 + * » . . H
[6739]r 2: a DO vou have any knowledge of use of the press in Miami!
[6740]E
[6741]5 . for propaganda purposes? i
[6742]cj 24
[6743]2 a. i. No. No.
[6745]Photocopy from
[6746]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[6748]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 96
[6750]oO 95
[6752]folos if |
[6753]i [
[6754]asl | |
[6755]i] '
[6756]3S . i ;
[6757]3 ~
[6758]€ 9) Would you know if that were the case? |
[6759]n iH
[6760]5 2h |
[6761]& | A. No. I really wouldn't know, but the relationship was |
[6762]2
[6763]2
[6764]ef ae , , |
[6765]2 a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these |
[6766]a = if . . . : .
[6767]y people as well as they were assigint us. {
[6768]a f
[6769]5 |
[6770]; 2Q What assistance would you render for members of i
[6771]i! H
[6772]eu
[6773]aI the press in Miami? :
[6774]7 |
[6775]A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor
[6776]3 |
[6777]i we would put him in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of
[6778]“ | areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations ;
[6780]} would give him background briefings and this type of thing i
[6781]Hy |
[6783]7 on the developments within a given country.
[6784]; 12 | aye g ;
[6785]3 ‘ Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? |
[6786]é |
[6787]1c | tas \ age es i
[6788]: i} A Predominantly, I would say prebably the’ Miami '
[6789]z : i
[6790]NI 7 i :
[6791]3 ~ ; sHerald received probably a little more attention than.the
[6793]organizations?
[6794]Photocopy from
[6796]SECRET : Gerald Ford Library
[6798]a5 ; ; . , _ |
[6799]_— | other papers, principally because-it was 4 Large paper and
[6800]aol
[6801]1é | their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout
[6802]in!
[6803]~' | the HemispHere.
[6804]Le: . , : i
[6805]ae 2 Was he also used as a source? i
[6806].
[6808]2 19 A No.
[6810]; 20 | |
[6811]S i Q Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive
[6812]3 ee | Similar briefings? |
[6813]= y
[6814]a 1
[6815]z 22 | A Yes. |
[6816]. 1 -
[6818]4 ez! .
[6819]3 wo 23 Ne talked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time
[6821]2 a4 | about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these
[6822]2 - |
[6823]3 25 jj
[6824]a
[6825]|
[6827]HF 50955 Docld: 32275518 Page $7
[6829]mbh 2 5 : 96
[6831]8 5 3
[6833]$ Lf
[6835]g 7 A Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were
[6837]Ww ow
[6839]$0 2 |
[6841]8 j pYincipally interested in the leadership of the organizations.
[6843]5 i
[6845]< So. ; ; -
[6847]g , Once the organization was established and the leadership took
[6848]over, then thev would take care of enlisting the, I guess,
[6849]getting membershiv from the Cuban exile community to join.
[6851]6 . mo ; :
[6852]Q What were their Eunctions, the fronts?
[6853]7
[6854]A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:
[6855]8 . . a .
[6856]thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a4 !
[6857]9 a ae . , ,
[6858]political organization in exile.
[6859]~~ 9 Did they conduct any operations? |
[6860]TT
[6861]oo A No, not that I know of.
[6862]a |
[6864]4 12 i aoe sao {
[6866]3 rT 2 Just like a political varty? i
[6870]é Vz . ar ‘
[6872]0 7 A Like a colitical party. :
[6874]* “* fe) How many of these fronts were there? |
[6876]a A There were several of them. I really don't remember |
[6877]° the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary |
[6878]+? Democratic Front. = guess that was probably the biggest -one. |
[6879]+e _ and’ there were some others.
[6881]3 an 2 The RDF?
[6883]J 20 it a PRD.
[6885]e \ , |
[6887]§ ar 4 ; |
[6889]Fy men Q I see. i
[6891]3 ii |
[6893]opp | _ | a |
[6895]: | A Front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the |
[6897]4 ai
[6899]FA BS Democratic Revolutionary Front. |
[6901]“ af
[6903]: 74 9) All right. Are these groups still in existence?
[6905]re !
[6909]= i i
[6911]T - ~ we - {
[6913]: fowould think not. I really don't». know. f
[6915]i
[6917]Photocopy from |
[6918]Gerald Ford Library
[6920]i
[6921]25 | OA
[6922]I
[6924]SECRET
[6926]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 96
[6928]mbh 38 , 4
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[6990]3 .
[6992]B 4
[6994]2 24 . -)
[6996]i
[7000]= 25 4 contract
[7002]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page
[7004]ae te es TR ie BO a 97
[7006]Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?
[7008]qo. There was but there isn't any more. There
[7010]hasn't been one there for vears.
[7012]I think the station was established around 1958
[7013]erhaps it was established before that. I think it
[7014]of existence in 1958.
[7016]Do vou Xnow wnv it went out of existence?
[7018]No, i ton’. = don't have any idea.
[7020]Do vou xnow what function it was performing?
[7022](Jods in negative.)
[7024]You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked
[7025]Cuban community tor the CIA?
[7027]He worked with these fronts, too.
[7029]Was he mterrorming any intelligence function in the
[7030]y?
[7032]Intellicence functions. Well --
[7034]Was ne coliacting information?
[7036]Sure. If he got information that ne thought was
[7037]le he would sass it on.
[7038]Now, would he have been considered one of the three
[7039]ersons empioved or assigned to the Miami Station?
[7040]Yes. He was a contract employee.
[7042]Ang were intelligence requirements levied on such
[7044]Photocopy from
[7046]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[7048]39
[7050]egy ay WED Eth a
[7052]|
[7053]° l
[7054]3 71
[7055]ig ~ A Normally, the requirements are pretty standard,
[7056]5 ;
[7057]3 a i or they were at that time. But here again, you always have |
[7058]3 4 |
[7059]S ° | ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to |
[7060]: 4
[7061]* be surfaced. i
[7062]i
[7063]5 Q Some of these contract emplovees were, then, in
[7064]6 the business cf ccllecting intelligence information in the
[7065]? Cuban communities in Miami.
[7066]8 A Right. .
[7067]9 Q Now, = think we finished with che AMOTS but can
[7068]1° you think of any cther functions performed by the AMOTS that
[7069]12: we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon? |
[7070]; 1é 3 "OR ilo, not really. “lo. |
[7071]2
[7072]Z
[7073]4 Te 9 I think vou voreviously described them for me as the :
[7074]a . i
[7075]3 1s eves and ears into the Cuban community. i
[7076].
[7077]1s a Right. |
[7078]1é Q And they actually had a physicai facility in Miami
[7079]|
[7080]1" which was their headquarters, did they not?
[7081]1é A Exactly. i
[7082]n 1g 2 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to super-
[7083]iF 2c. vise that facility.
[7084]2h A Yes.
[7085]3 22° 9 Now, what has nappened to -the AMOTS?
[7086]. , - i
[7087]‘a t
[7088]: 26 A The AMOTS were craduaily phased down and will go
[7089]y
[7090]o
[7091]s o- . . ; ae :
[7092]x 24 out of existence -- che AMOTS are out of existence, aren't
[7094]¢ 2c they? Isn't it the AMDUKES or ~- these are the radio. people. |
[7096]SEC RET Photocopy from .
[7097]oe Gerald Ford Library ;
[7099]HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page i100
[7101]fo ns Tat OG, ie 8 99
[7103]=. 8
[7104]2on 32. 38 1 |
[7105]2 9 And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?
[7106]a
[7107]g 2
[7108]& | A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people.
[7109]= 5 |
[7110]2 | 9 They are the ones that conducted the intercept
[7111]i for NSA?
[7113]5S: -
[7114]| A Yes. The cnly reason we use two different names
[7115]6 i . ° -_ .
[7116]: is that in ¢ach cr these things in those cays we had to have
[7117]7 ; en ues
[7118]a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the
[7119]By...
[7120]i funding.
[7121]i
[7122]g
[7123]i 2) S50 AMDURE and AMOT --
[7124]1G} . =
[7125]A Synonymous.
[7127]Li i
[7128]i “ Q ~~ are cryptonyms?
[7129]; le |
[7130]5 I A Yes.
[7131]< j
[7133]2 ~ | 2 Do the initials stand for anything other than --
[7134]; 14 4
[7135]“i A Ho. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt
[7136]a somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a
[7137]16 | san te cen ;
[7138]: crypt. You con't nave anything to do with it. The AM happened
[7139]a7 4 oo, : . cs
[7140]~" atuithat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.
[7141]1ée . - ar . .
[7142]ad 8) Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for
[7143]94 ; . ; . .
[7144]19 | assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the
[7146]political conventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly
[7148]describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by
[7150]the Agency to the Secret Service?
[7152]A At the request of the Secret Service we conducted
[7154]name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted
[7156]v
[7158]TIO bead Sifcel,
[7160]traced. These includedthe emplovees of all hotels in Miami
[7162]s E ¢ R ET photocopy from
[7164]Gerald Ford Library
[7166]HW 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 101
[7170]te
[7172]Phone {Arey 202) 544-6000
[7173]Gi to
[7177]oi
[7179]WARD & PAUL
[7181]tH
[7183]bA
[7184]an
[7187]n
[7189]fe
[7193]tee)
[7195]20
[7197]22
[7199]25
[7201]410 barst Street, S-E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[7203]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 102
[7205]21 i
[7207]od Ee os PRE 8
[7213]Beach where any convention activities were to take place,
[7214]employees of catering services, limosine service, employees
[7215]in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
[7216]is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.
[7217]Foreign news people and media, television, radio people.
[7219]s) Were these people on whom name traces were requested
[7220]all foreign nationals?
[7222]A All foreign nationals.
[7224]2 Was there any check made to determine whether
[7225]any of them were American citizens?
[7227]A “de levied on the Secret Service as a requirement
[7229],
[7231]that they have identified these people by nationality before
[7232]we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time
[7234]they did submit a jist, a rather long list of American citizen
[7235]which we cromptly sent back to them and told them we could
[7237]not trace.
[7239]2 And this practice was followed poth in 1968 and
[7240]1972?
[7242]A That is right.
[7244]2 And where were these names traced?
[7246]A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The
[7248]Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check
[7250]nere. In the case of Cubans, probably the Miami Station had
[7252]more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.
[7254]3 But the names were traced through Agency files?
[7256]SEC RET ; photocopy from
[7258]Gerald Ford Library
[7260]5
[7263]sph 7
[7265]Phone (Ares 202) 544-6000
[7270]WARD & PAUL
[7272]on ies
[7274]jo
[7277]20004
[7279]+ Wastungton, .c.
[7281]ALG fast Strect, SE
[7283]HY 50955 Doclid
[7285]ao Ee Yas EES 8
[7287]| 101
[7288]i
[7289]| A Through Agency files.
[7290]1 . « . .
[7291]H ie) Nas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI
[7293]| on this as well?
[7295]A Oh, yes.
[7296]1 . -_ : =
[7297]| 9 And in erfect,they were getting an all-Agency name
[7300]| A Right. :
[7301]| . . .
[7303]Q -- on people who might pose a security threat --
[7305]A Yes.
[7306]| 2 -- to a candidate?
[7307]| A “Well, they were just trying to determine who might
[7309]be a security threat..
[7310]Q That is right. Potential threat.
[7311]- A Yeas.
[7313]H 2») For what political parties -- strike that.
[7314]1 +
[7315]In 1968 was this service orovided for both political
[7316]| conventions?
[7317]i A Both political conventions.
[7319]Q Were they both held in Miami that year?
[7321]A Mo. I guess it was in 1972 thev were both held
[7323]there. I think it was just, the Democratic in 1968.
[7325]a) These requests did come from the Secret Service
[7327]rather than --
[7328]A From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director
[7330]of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for
[7332], Photocopy from
[7333]SECRET ei eetubrey
[7335]:32275518 Page 103
[7337]Plione (Area 202) 544-6000
[7339]WARD & PAUL
[7341]eel, SEL, Washington, D.c. 20003
[7343]41G First Sty
[7349]5
[7350]we
[7354]102
[7356]support.
[7358]2 Do you still maintain the records with respect =o
[7360]that tracing activity?
[7362]A Tt have all the names that have been traced,
[7364]2 And they are on little cards down in your files?
[7365]A Yes.
[7367]9 Why have those records been maintained? Is there
[7369]any reason those records nave Seen maintained?
[7370]A “ell, because ve were told to maintain them when
[7372]the Watercate thing broke,
[7374]2 I see.
[7375]A And since then nobody will destroy anything.
[7376]2 OK. Are you aware of any Dicketing at various
[7378]Slaces in the country that has been conducted by Cuban
[7380]A iowas not aware of it until I was told of it.
[7381]I still don't know whether this waS a Spontaneous action on
[7382]the part of these people or whether they were instructed to
[7383]do it. I tried to run that down and I have been unable to,
[7385]2 At what locations has it been reported that pickets
[7387]were located?
[7389]a Airline officas in New York, Miami. I think another
[7391]place. I forget where it was,
[7392]} flave you in fact been able to verify that these
[7394]ersons were Cubans?
[7396]ne)
[7398]Photocopy from
[7400]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[7402]HW 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 104
[7404]a
[7406]3 1
[7408]a 2
[7410]3
[7412]é 3
[7414]: 4
[7415]5
[7416]6
[7417]7
[7418]8
[7419]9
[7420]10
[7423]; 12
[7425]3
[7429]z.
[7431]3 13
[7433]a
[7435]3 14
[7436]25
[7437]16
[7438]17
[7441]‘19
[7443]3
[7445]G 20
[7447]a
[7449]g 21
[7451]3 22
[7455]: 23
[7457]3
[7459]3 24
[7461]3
[7463]3 25
[7465]HY 50955 Docld:
[7467]i
[7471]| .
[7473]i A No.
[7475]i a) Sith what frequency cid this activity occur?
[7477]| A tT don't have any idea. I only know of one instance.
[7478]|
[7480]1 9 This was in New York City?
[7482]t
[7484]ee the, Yes B%, fs
[7486]A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history
[7488]that this indeed did take tlace. ‘low, what I have been trying
[7490]to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized
[7492]this,whicn I fully doubt.
[7494]: 9 Mho was the On-Site Case Officer?.
[7495]i ;
[7496]2 A At that time it was a fellow by the name of Tony
[7497]i
[7498]t) Sforza.
[7499]a
[7500]i
[7501]F 9 Is he still alive? |
[7502]|
[7503]L . : : a : ‘
[7504]i A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know i
[7506]i whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the
[7507]| AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with
[7509]Cuba, notably Spain and Creat Britain and France.
[7511]|
[7512]9 Other than this incident which we --~ strike that.
[7513](
[7514]That kind of an investigation have you conducted?
[7515]A I have talked to veople, which is really all you
[7516]can do. There is no other way vou can do it.
[7518]|
[7519]5 vou have been unable to determine who, if anyone, |
[7521]! authorized this activity? Zave you been able to identify
[7523]any of the persons who participated in the picketing?
[7525]A New York City and Miami.
[7527]Do you know of anv organized political activity that
[7529]| SEC RET | Photocopy from
[7531]Gerald Ford Library
[7533]i
[7535]|
[7537]32275518 Page 105
[7539]oD The Mes OO Hen B : 104
[7541]coh 1
[7543]A To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any.
[7545]Q Any political activity.
[7547]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7549]the AMOTS engaged in? °
[7550]i
[7552]Do vou know of any other activities that they have
[7553]conducted within this country, they or any of their members
[7554]have conducted within this country that we have not already
[7556]discussed this afternoon?
[7560]4 No.
[7562]t
[7564]WD
[7566]Any political activities? Any operations?
[7568]No. Not really. Of course, we have used certain
[7572]|
[7573],
[7574]i
[7575]select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban |
[7576]1
[7577]|
[7578]defectors. In other words, Live with them until they are |
[7579]i
[7581]resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity
[7583]WARD & PAUL
[7585]they engaged in. But other than that, I can’t think of any-
[7587]i
[7588]i
[7590]i
[7591]i
[7593]4 i .
[7594]25 | thing else.
[7595]i {
[7596]16 | Q Do vou know of any criminal activities that have
[7597]“| |
[7599]|
[7600]aa aA I nave heard of some allegations which have never
[7601]2 19 | been rroven. |
[7602]3 a a) What are the allegations?
[7603]3
[7604]5 ely A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances
[7605]3 22 and this type of thind. ~
[7607]w !
[7608]< 23 | 2 Have those allegations been made with any fre- |
[7609]a
[7612]= 25 a Well, © Forget who it was. It was during the ;
[7613]SEC RET Photocopy from
[7615]Gerald Ford Library
[7616]HY 50955 Docld:32275518 Page 106 , “
[7618]i —T e 105
[7619]i
[7620]g |
[7621]8S 7?
[7622]‘ “ || Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out
[7623]3 |
[7624]a 24 . , 8,
[7625]8 <j and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we
[7626]|
[7627]< “|| made file checks and this type of thing. One varticular
[7629]* * i activity was supnosed to nave been carried out in Rockefeller
[7630]5 i ; ; _ ;
[7631]. o 3 Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of
[7632]|
[7633]6 ' context. Tt was a training mission and -- =raining exercise.
[7634]? | These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York
[7635]|
[7636]} . . ; - . 4 ‘ '
[7637]8 i and they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Mannattay
[7638]7
[7639]o | -~ Chase Manhattan and ts come back out and then they were '
[7640]. 10] supposed to diagram the -~syout of the bank. And this to some
[7641]11 || of them meant sasing the kank when in fact it was just a
[7643]4 12] memory exercise.
[7644]a
[7646]# 13 9 with what frequency were those kinds of training
[7647]3 .
[7648]& | |
[7650]3 14 | exercises conducted?
[7652]H :
[7653]15 | BN Well, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt .
[7654]| |
[7655]16} that these veople, seleczed individuals, were to be trained |
[7656]i -
[7657]Ly: in trade craft. |
[7658]|
[7659]1a | a And did their =rade craft training include such |
[7660]|
[7661]tt . .
[7662]” 19} things as surveillance?
[7663]g
[7664]. ° i
[7665]Ed i ~ a |
[7666]3 20 | aA Sure. |
[7667]a i
[7668]2 Ht : es |
[7669]3 21; 2 And break-ins?
[7671]z i ;
[7672]2 22 | A Mo. «Not break-ins. Nor surreptitious entry. As i
[7673]é | |
[7674]< 23 | said, in the case of this varticular thing, it was misinter-
[7677]a | - . bee . . ;
[7678]3 24 | bretec as casing the hank. These exercises were given -- they |
[7679]= i
[7680]° i - . _ . . . H
[7681]+ 25 | could have walked into veur office, vour outer office and- i
[7682]H 1
[7683]: . . . .
[7684]i SECRET Photocopy from
[7686]| Gerald Ford Library
[7688]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 107
[7690]oh 12
[7692]Prone {Area 202) 544-6000
[7693]Gl wo
[7695]an
[7697]WARD & PAUL
[7698]fe [oa] po b4 foo js
[7699](es) ~2 fe>) or ds tr
[7701]i
[7702]ite)
[7704]22
[7706]23
[7708]24
[7710]$16 First Street, $.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[7712]25
[7714]ca fn Cas w
[7715]Te Be & 106
[7717]i
[7719]said -- the instructor could have said two hours latér teil
[7720]. f
[7721]me what is in that outer office? ‘What is the layout of it?
[7723]his is just for observation.
[7725]9) You stated earlier none of those allegations have
[7727]been proven. Have any of them been proved to your
[7730]A No. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.
[7731]9 I take it you do not believe they took place other
[7733]than the training exercise?
[7735]tH
[7737]A Oh, no. Mo. don't believe they did.
[7739]9 Do you know of any instances where members of that
[7740]group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
[7741]in this country?
[7743]A NO.
[7745]9 '- Have you ever been present at any discussions of
[7747]the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the
[7749]Miami Station within this country?
[7751]A Legality? No.
[7752]9 Yow about the propriety?
[7753]A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.
[7755]Mo one to my knowledge, has ever auestioned the legality or
[7756]the propriety of having the Station.
[7758]3) There have been some allegations in the press and
[7759]elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of
[7761]that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those?
[7763]SECRET Photocopy from
[7765]Gerald Ford Library
[7767]HW 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 108
[7770]‘ph 13
[7772]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 109
[7774]Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7776]WaRD & PALE.
[7778]Washington, 0.0. 20003
[7780]410 Fivst Street, S.E.,
[7782]22!
[7784]23
[7786]24
[7788]25
[7790]aa) am om TG, EH . 107
[7791]A Ho.
[7793]articles that suggest that she Cuban community is sort of
[7797]|
[7798]2 We received some corressondence and I have seen some |
[7799]|
[7801]|
[7803]a resource: that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various!
[7804]operations in this country.
[7806]You mean this country?
[7808]he
[7810]- es ,
[7811]2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some!
[7813]other examples of unusual activities. Do you have any knowledce
[7815]Cuban nationals or exiles for any type
[7817]IH
[7819]of use by the CIA oc
[7820]of operation within this country?
[7821]A No.
[7823]2 Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided
[7825]any Zinancial support for Cuban businessmen in this country?
[7827]Hed
[7829]No. Not to my knowledge.
[7831]che: AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various coliticai front groups,
[7835]i
[7837]>) Other than the maintenance of cover? j
[7839]; |
[7841]|
[7843]A Mo. i
[7844]3 Establisnment of businesses?
[7846]: |
[7848]. i
[7850]A No. i
[7852]») No? |
[7854]H
[7856]a Mo |
[7858]a) In the course of our discussions today we discussed |
[7860]i
[7862]'
[7866]i
[7868]1
[7870]revolutionary front groups. Are there any other emigre,
[7872]i
[7873]t
[7874]Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported
[7876]SEC RET | Photocopy from |
[7878]Gerald Ford Library
[7880]by the Agency, either financially or otherwise?
[7882]ww hm GH 8 te e 108
[7884]|
[7885]2 |
[7886]3 | 3 |
[7887]8 1 A Hot to my knowledce.
[7888]v
[7889]vt
[7890]Dp | . ‘ : . a: : ;
[7891]= 2 2) Are vou familiar with the appendix that was attached
[7892]—]
[7893]N
[7894]ag
[7895]& 3 | to Mr. Colby?s statement?
[7896]2 4 } A Yes.
[7897]. ae ees |
[7898]5 Q Did you have some role in drafting that? |
[7899]6 | RN You mean the Miami Station thing? ~ |
[7900]i
[7901]7 | 29 Appendix J, entitled, "The Miami Station". .
[7902]i Aa |
[7903]a | A Yes, |
[7904]9 9 You wrote it? : ,
[7905]i |
[7906]: |
[7907]ay Yes, i
[7908]LO ; |
[7909]| woe as ; ; -
[7910]ll 9 It has a familiar ring about it. There are references
[7911]|
[7912]12 to indigenous organizations, emicre organizations. Are
[7913]3
[7915]a 13 there any others other than the ones we have been discussing? |
[7916]a i
[7917]g r
[7918]; 14 A Not to my knowledge. Shere are, you know, if you
[7919]ae | vant, to. call.it an organization, we did, vou know, subsidize
[7921]16 | thevhelil“out of Juanita Castro.
[7922]L i
[7923]| .
[7924]_ i Q | Yes, I am familiar with that.
[7925]L7
[7926]12 | A fou are familiar with all that and that is by the
[7927]4
[7928]| board now, too.
[7929]. 19 |
[7930]3 H
[7931]8 9 She was. doing -- ~-
[7932]5 20
[7934]2 ! A Propaganda.
[7935]3 22 |
[7936]5 ; Q -- pDropaqanda broadcasts. .
[7937]2 22 ..
[7938]a | A Yes.
[7940]J
[7941]] 24 2 Do you have any versonal knowledge of what kind of
[7943]2 25 intellicence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami |
[7944]e i . {
[7945]SE re RET Photocopy from
[7946]Gerald Ford Library |
[7948]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 110
[7950]tu He eas BE Bi loo |
[7952]4 ad
[7953]‘bh 13 7
[7954]¢ 1 area now by the Miami Statiscn?
[7955]3 i
[7956]vs t
[7957]a a 4 : ; ae .
[7958]S A There are no domestic activities at all in the
[7959]3 _!
[7960]Oo: . . , is says . i
[7961]z Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been movéd back
[7962]Fe ao: . oo . a . .
[7963]here to Headquarters. The ‘‘iami Station now is completely
[7964]5 : . > , . . : .
[7965]and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.
[7966]6. . cha tthamd @eees
[7967]a 9 Does the i!lami Station -- I beg your pardon -- :
[7969]| does the Headquarters commenent that now handles the Cuban
[7970]aI :
[7971]8 | . ; . oo. ; ; . ;
[7972]i Situation in Mlami run any agents in the Cuban community? |
[7973]i |
[7974]9 | a — an
[7975]i! A No. Well, let me explain that to vou. We do have
[7976]10 | |
[7977]‘| a career agent who has been vith us for a good many vears
[7978]|
[7979]11! Skee ee 3 Ls .
[7980]+4 in Miami and we do use nim =o contact relatives of Cubans
[7981]| |
[7982]i 12 | who are still in Cuba. I mean, relatives who are in the U.S. |
[7985]1S i who nave relatives in Cuba. i
[7986]c u ]
[7987]s fo . : : . . : .
[7988]3 14: Now, this is done crincipally with the idea of a
[7989]Vs i : = « ‘“ |
[7990]avon cecrultment target, determine weaknesses or strengths, this |
[7992]"|
[7993]TAO ; , 3
[7994]16 |} type of thing. ile does contact these people all over the
[7995]an - . saa +
[7996]an United States. If we come across an individual that. looks lik
[7997]18 & ne might be recruitable, or verhaps we could even double hin,
[7998]z
[7999]2 19 }! we will, after we make our creliminary assessment, and we
[8000]2 4 ;
[8001]N AY . . .
[8002]J 20 find out where relatives anc these types of people are, we
[8003]a iH . .
[8004]5 I
[8005]g Hi . . . . .
[8006]g 21% will ask this career agent or instruct him to go ‘contact
[8007]g |
[8008]3 22 || these people, be it New Yors, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-
[8009]ui | So
[8010]3 zi
[8011]é 25 || ever.
[8012]3 i
[8013]a _ ; ;
[8014]3 24. - 2 So you use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this i
[8015]3 i : i
[8016]> 25 | country, aS access agents. : _ i
[8017]j ° ; ° Photocopy from
[8019]| | 7 | SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[8021]HY 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 111
[8023]waren)
[8025]SEwKREI |
[8026]H
[8027]Oh 16 I
[8028]3 |
[8029]3 1} * :
[8030]ae | A Right.
[8031]3 H
[8032]a 2h: _ 2 .
[8033]3 | Q Just like foreicn associates would do.
[8034]a . -
[8035]a S| |
[8036]= A Exactly. |
[8037]6 H
[8038]= i H
[8039]* & | i) Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who |
[8040]d 4
[8041]5 4 . . - os : .
[8042]v | are contract emplovees or the Agency who still work in the
[8043]| .
[8044]6 ‘ Miami-Cuban community?
[8045]7
[8046]i A do. None.
[8047]1
[8048]a
[8049]8 Q That entire apDaratus has been --
[8050]7 || a das been dismantled. ;
[8051]| | |
[8052]t
[8053]10 | 9 -~- dismantled. ‘hat is the current size of the
[8054](
[8055]il | Miami -Station? i
[8056]| |
[8057]F le. A’ I really don't know but it runs between 1l and 14,
[8058]i | | |
[8059]3 13 } aS far as I know. I think it will be 11 by the next fiscal
[8060]a
[8061]3 140 vear. !
[8062]15 | MR. MANFREDI: Off the record:
[8063]16 (Discussion off the record.)
[8064]q .
[8065]17 MR.MANFREDI: Let's go back on the record.
[8066]i . |
[8067]18 | BY MR. MANFREDI:
[8069]3 19 | Q . There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
[8070]3 i ;
[8071]5 20} of iiami?
[8072]ta
[8073]g 21 | a uo. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of |
[8075]$ 22 |) Seadquarters. -
[8076]ad |
[8077]a |
[8078]3 23 |} i) And even from the Neadquarters location there are
[8079]|
[8080]a
[8081]3 24 | no varamilitary operations?
[8082]< i . Photocopy from
[8083]2 25 A Mo. . Gerald Ford Library
[8085]|
[8086]| SECRET
[8088]HY 50955 Docld: 32275516 Page 112
[8090]tbh 17,
[8091]3 1
[8092]g 1
[8093]Tt
[8095]oO
[8096]a 2
[8098]N
[8099]a
[8100]g¢ a
[8101]g 3
[8102]2
[8103]z 4
[8105]io
[8107]WARD & PAUL
[8109]C2)
[8111]be
[8114]Te
[8115]LO
[8119]-
[8121]4
[8122]x
[8123]Y
[8124]3
[8125]3 21
[8126]z
[8127]2 Re
[8128]f
[8129]uw 2
[8130]= 235
[8131]“J
[8132]2
[8133]z
[8134]5 24
[8135]E
[8136]7 25
[8138]HW 50955 Docld
[8140]SECRET Lu
[8142]Q No covert -~ well, there is some propaganda activity
[8143]being conducted stiil? .
[8144]A On a very small scale, and the covert action faciit
[8146]that we had, the radio, taped program, is being terminated
[8148]by 30 June. So for all sractical purposes, it is terminated
[8150]now.
[8152]9 The Miami Station is under official cover.
[8154]A Yes,
[8156]2 And it nas been decreased to how many peovle?
[8158]A Between il and 14.
[8160]©) And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
[8161]respect to Cuba?
[8163]A Absolutely none.
[8165]9) And its responsibilities are entirely directed to
[8167]other Latin American countries?
[8169]A To Caribbean countries.
[8171]9 Caribbean countries. And £ trust that there are
[8172]other Agency Stations in the Caribbean?
[8174]A Yes.
[8175]2 Nell, = have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts.
[8177]If vou have anything vou would like to add you are welcome
[8179]A No, I have nothing.
[8180]3 I want to thank vou on behalf of myself and the
[8182]Commission for vour cooperation. ;
[8183]i Photocopy from
[8185]SECRET : . Gerald Ford Library
[8187]232275516 Page 113
[8189]|
[8190]|
[8193]8
[8195]1 71
[8197]ire Ss
[8199]4
[8203]w
[8205]a 2
[8209]g
[8213]a
[8215]2 .
[8217]q oO
[8219]2
[8221]é 4
[8222]5
[8223]w
[8225]cory
[8227]WARD & PAUL
[8228]t+ ia
[8231]to
[8232]Oo
[8234]20003
[8236]JiO birst Sireet, S-E., Washingtun, D.C,
[8238]29
[8240]SERRE!
[8242]a Sure.
[8244]That is all right.
[8246]wad
[8248]Thank you again.
[8250]1
[8252](Whereupon, at 3:35 o'cl
[8254]deposition was concluded.)
[8256]SECRET
[8258]HW 50955 Docld:32275516 Page 114
[8262]p.m.,
[8264]a) I am sorry we had to take so much of your time.
[8266]the taking of
[8268]Photocopy from
[8269]Gerald Ford Library