[1]178-10002-10279)
[3]2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
[5]AGENCY :
[6]RECORD NUMBER:
[8]RECORD SERIES :
[10]AGENCY FILE NUMBER :
[12]ORIGINATOR :
[13]FROM:
[14]TO:
[16]TITLE:
[18]DATE:
[19]PAGES:
[21]SUBJECTS :
[23]DOCUMENT TYPE :
[24]CLASSIFICATION :
[25]RESTRICTIONS :
[26]CURRENT STATUS :
[27]DATE OF LAST REVIEW ;
[29]OPENING CRITERIA :
[31]COMMENTS :
[33]v9]
[35]JFK Assassination system
[36]Identification Form
[38]Agency Information
[40]ROCKCOM
[41]178-10002-10279
[45]ASSASSINATION FILES
[46]A-I(J) CORRESPONDENCE--ASSASSINATIONS
[48]Document Information
[50]ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION
[51]DEPOSITION OF WILLIAM STURBITTS
[53]04/16/1975
[54]4
[56]ANTI-CASTRO ACTIVITIES
[57]CIA
[59]STURBITTS, WILLIAM
[60]FITZGERALD, DESMOND
[61]KENNEDY, ROBERT
[62]CUBAN EXILES
[64]DEPOSITION
[65]Secret
[67]1A; 1B; 1C
[68]Redact
[69]02/13/2001
[71]Selected pages from deposition. Full document is number 1781000210091.
[73]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 1
[75]Dae:
[77]8/s7ZV
[79]T
[82]SECRET
[84]Examination by Counsel
[86]For the Commission
[88]2
[90]i (AFTERNOON SESSION Page 58)
[92]3 Li
[94]3 e | Deposition of
[95]e Sj
[96]‘ William C. Sturbitts
[97]z 43
[98]6 th
[99]ys William C. Sturbitts
[101]|
[102]9 |
[103]10! 178-10002-10091
[104]i |
[106], 12 |
[107]2 !
[108]i ai 178-10002-10215
[109]3 13 |
[110]Q is
[111]& u
[112]3 142
[114]178-10002-10279
[116]20 |
[117]i
[118]21
[119]. I
[120]22 |
[121]23 4
[123]24
[125]310 Fast Stecet, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[127]25
[129]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 2
[131](Resumed)
[133]SECRET
[135]58
[137]Photocopy from
[138]Gerald Ford Library
[141]_ 4 SECRET Ld
[143]~ph 1 | -
[144]2 ~ | PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION
[145]a a
[146]a 2! .
[147]& | ON CIA ACTIVITIES
[148]2 - 4
[149]< . | oe |
[150]: | |
[151]Z 2 | ow, |
[152]. . Langley, Virginia |
[153]. Wednesday, April 16, 1975 :
[154]i i
[155]64
[156]H Deposition of WILLIAM C. STURBITTS, called for
[157]23 - a op ea gs
[158]| @xamination by Counsel for the Commission on CTA Activities,
[159]8: . ;
[160]: the witness being duly sworn by Thomas C. Hogan, a Notary |
[162]G 3 i ; toe . .
[163]; Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices of the
[164]“fe Central Intelligence Agency, Langley, Virginia, at 9:50 |
[166]I. i o'clock a.m., on Wednesday, April 16, 1975, the proceedings
[167]J
[168]> qe Ff . !
[169]3 +6 ' being taken down in stenotype by Ruth G. McClenning, and
[170]< i
[171]. < d t
[172]5 te | transcribed under her direction.
[173]z ye!
[174]5 “* APPEARANCES:
[175]23 if On behalf of the Commission:
[176]1é GEORGE MANFREDI, #SQ., |
[177]in 4 ROBERT B. OLSEN, ESQ.
[179]“ ig 7
[180]5 2c
[181]c ro i
[183]g £1: \ |
[184]z 22 ' \
[186]a 22 |
[188]= D4 Photocopy from
[189]+ Gerald Ford Library |
[190]= 25 3
[191]i
[193]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 3 SECRET
[195]Phone (Area 202) 644-6000
[196]Crt wo
[198]WARD & PALE
[200]23
[202]24
[204]HHO Bicut Street, SEL, Washingten, D.C. 20003
[210]25
[212]Thereupon,
[214]called as
[216]SECRET
[218]PROCEEDINGS !
[220]Tt ay mn gag
[222]WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
[224]a witness by Counsel for the Commission on.CIA
[226]Activities, and having been first duly sworn by the Notary
[228]Public,
[230]Q
[231]record?
[233]A
[235]Q
[237]weeks ago
[239]' Waiver"?
[241]A
[243]Q
[245]A
[247]was examined and testified as follows: |
[249]EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION
[251]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[253]Mr. Sturbitts, will you state your full name for the
[255]William C. Sturbitts.
[256]Mr. Sturbitts, do vou recall when we spoke some
[258]you signed a document entitled, "Advice and
[260]Right.
[262]You’ understand that document is still in effect?
[263]Sure.
[265]Mr. Sturbitts, by whom are you currently employed?
[266]You mean the Agency or -~
[268]That is right.
[270]Central Intelligence Agency. .
[272]And what is your current position with the Agency?
[274]I am a Special Assistant, Latin America, for
[276]Economic Intelligence Collection and Operations.
[278]Q
[280]And would you briefly review for me the history of
[282]HW 50955 Doctd:32275454 Page 4 SECRET
[286]wo Adorojoyg
[288]we
[290]Phane (Ares 202) 544-6000
[292]a> Crt
[294]WAHO & PAUL
[297]i
[299]ae)
[300]if
[302]410 btrst Stecet, $.£., Wasmngton, D.C. 20004
[304]HY 50955 Docld:
[306]sE.RE i 3
[308]your employment with the Agency?
[310]A When I first came in I was in the Intelligence
[311]Directorate for approximately ten years and I was put on special
[313]detail, special indefinite detail, in the Deputy Director, Plans,
[315]which is now the Directorate of Operations.
[317]Q What year were you put on that detail?
[319]A I guess it was 1964, January, I believe.
[321]Q And what did that detail involve?
[322][
[324]A Cuban operations, economic warfare.
[326]Q And how long were you on that detail? |
[328]A I was in the Cuban operations for nine years.
[330]Q Between 1964 and. 1973?
[332]A (Nods in affirmative.) |
[333]i And in 1973 did you assume your current position? |
[334]A Yes, January.
[336]Q Now, while you were on special detail -- to the DOD?
[338]A Yes. . |
[340]9 Were you stationed in Washington? |
[341]A Yes. . |
[342]Q And did you commute with some frequency to Miami? |
[343]A Yes.
[345]9) Were your activities in Miami in any way connected
[347]with the operations of the Miami Station?
[349]A In some way. My responsibilities were worldwide.
[351]I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Miami.
[353]_ Photocopy from i
[354]SECRET Gerald Ford Library |
[356]39975454 Page 5
[358]foe
[360]Pune (Ares 202) 544-6000
[362]WARD & PAUL
[364]u
[366]tH
[369]21
[371]22
[373]J1G First Steeei, S.E., Washington, D.C. 26003
[375](ae)
[378]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 6
[382]i
[384]it
[385]4
[387]SECRET | ;
[389]Most of my operations were run out of Europe,
[391]9 Run out of --
[393]A Eurooe. Some were run out of Miami but the big ones
[395]were run out of Europe.
[397]Q Well, in the course of your activities with respect
[398]to Cuba did you have occasion to become familiar with the
[399]operations of the Miami base?
[401]A Yes.
[403]Q and the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?
[405]A Yes, sir.
[407]Q During the nine years you were with ppO's Cuban
[409]operations, who was ~~ who were the chiefs of the Miami
[411]Station?
[412]A . t think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
[413]was followed by -- I can't think of his name. I should know
[415]it.-Well, I will come back to that.
[416]Then, the next Chief of Station was Paul Henze.
[417]9) What years was he Chief?
[418]A think ‘Paul was there about a year and a half. He
[420]left in 1968 when we reduced the size of the Station. Let's
[422]say Henze was there from 1966 to 1968.
[423]He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973.
[425]Q Now, what was the formal title of the group to which
[426]you were assigned for the %-year period?
[428]A Well, when I first came in it was known as the
[430]; Photocopy f :
[431]SEC RET : Gerald Ford Library
[433]And then Jake Esterline
[437]Phone {Ares 202) 544-0000
[438]Crt tay)
[440]WARD & PAUL
[441]Re jo
[442]Ae Cn
[450]el
[452]« Wastungton, O00.
[454]24
[456]TULO Porst Steet, SE
[458]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 7
[460]22:
[464]SECRET
[466]Special Activities Staff. It was headed by Desmond Fitzgerald.
[468]And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations
[470]Group.
[471]Q
[472]it attached to one of the area divisions?
[473]A No.
[475]called Task Force W which
[477]that -- when Harvey left, he went to ‘Rt
[479]and Fitzgerald took over,
[481]Now, was this a special group within the DDO or was
[483]Following the Bay of Pigs, they created a thing
[484]was headed by Bill Harvey. And
[485]Lef of<«Station, Rome,.
[487]it became. Special Activities Staff.
[489]It wasn't attached to anything except -- it reported to the
[491]Deputy Director, Plans.
[493]after the
[495]around ~-
[497]Q And that was Mr. Karamessines?
[499]A Yes. Well, it was Helms at that time back when it
[500]was first created. Helms was DDP at that time.
[502]Q And Task Force W was created immediately
[503]Bay of Pigs? -
[505]A Well, not immediately. I think sometime
[507]in the Bay of Pigs was in April. I think this was
[508]September, something like that, 1961.
[510]Q And that subsequently became the Special
[511]Staff?
[513]4A
[515]Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went
[517]back into the Western Hemisphere Division.
[519]Q
[521] photecopy from
[522]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[525]created in
[527]Activities
[529]Special Activities Staff and consequently became the
[531]And what was the date of that reorganization?
[534]wEV.RE! 6
[536]i=]
[537]3 Lo ,
[538]g A Well, let's see. I would say that was probably around
[539]g 2 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief, W.H., and then
[540]3 -
[541]< & later DDP.
[542]z 4 Q Now, Mr.Harvey -- do you recall what position Mr. |
[543]5 Harvey held after he left Task Force W? |
[544]6 A Yes. He was#€hief Of Station, Rome.
[545]7 Q And is he still with the Agency? |
[546]—_ |
[547]3 A Oh, no. He retired a long time ago.
[548]g Q Do you know where he lives at the present time? :
[549]1¢ A Frankly, = don't. I have an idea where he lives. :
[550]12 He went to work for a friend cf mine who had a law firm.
[552]7 12 Harvey is a lawyer. !
[553]|
[554]* 13 Q Indianapolis area?
[555]< 14 A Yes, some vlace around there. It is in the midwest,
[556]Ls Indiana. |
[557]|
[558]1A Q What was the role that was assigned to Task Force |
[560]12 A It was’the overall Cuban operations. |
[561]19 Q Did the Miami -- when was the Miami Station estab~ |
[562]3 Q .
[564]. 20 lished?
[565]: 2] A Well, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down|
[566]z 4 H
[567]> |
[568]2 20 there about 1960 which was small, ‘in. Cora‘l: Gables.
[569]2 a
[570]: : . |
[571]3 25 Q This was, then, orior to the Bay of Pigs?
[573]A ; , yes.
[574]: 24 A Oh, yv
[575]2 25 Q Now, in addition to Task Force W, was the Miami
[577]SEC RET Photocopy from |
[578], Gerald Ford Library : |
[580]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 8
[582]SECRET
[584]7
[585]3 ;
[586]3 “ Station running any operations against Cuba?
[587]- 2:
[588]a i A You mean prior to. the Bay of Pigs?
[589]i 5 |
[590]2 ' Q Yes.
[591]z 4°
[592]A I really don't know. It was a small -- it was a
[593]8
[594]forward base and it was more or less as I recall, a support typ
[595]ia} . . H
[596]thing. i
[597]7) ; |
[598]" 9 Well, after the Bay of Pigs when Task Force W was
[599]6 7 established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban
[600]9° |
[601]operations?
[602]iC ; A Yes. |
[603]J
[604]Li: Q Or was that shared with the Miami base, Miami
[605]2
[606]: Le Station?
[608]‘ ic A No. The Miami Station was under Task Force W.
[609]3 is Q All right. Would that also be true of the Special
[611]LS Activities Staff, the Cuban Operations Group?
[612]16 A Right, except that at the present time the Station H
[613]i” has no Cuban operations.
[614]ic. Q I understand that. When were Cuban operations termi-
[615]2 19" nated? . |
[616]: 20 . A At the Station? Let's see. Sternfield went down |
[617]: |
[618]3 £1 there in 1972. It was during fiscal year ‘72. I think it was |
[619]= dl . |
[620]3 22 in early 1973. It was a gradual reduction. |
[621]2 eS Q And have those operations been terminated entirely |
[622]5 ii |
[623]3 24 ! or are they now run out of the Washington area? |
[625]. 25 4 A All- Cuban operations are run out of Washington. i
[627]‘i : Photocop fr
[628]| SE C RET Gerald Ford Library |
[630]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 9
[632]SECRET
[634]3 .
[635]: : There are no more paramilitary operations, that type of thing.
[636]g 2 / 9 But there are some. Cuban operations being run out of
[637]: the Washington area? i
[638]: 4 A ‘Right.
[639]a Q Is that correct? | |
[640]6 A Right. Worldwide.
[641]a ; Q Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks you may
[642]8 i have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassin a-
[643]9 : tion attempts that have been mounted or alleged assassination |
[644]lo! attempts that have been mounted -- |
[645]A Right. |
[646]2 12 | Q ~~ against Fidel Castro. In the course of your |
[647]13 | activities with respect to Cuba, did you ever learn of any such|
[648]; 14° attempts? |
[649]15! A Well, let me answer it this way. I wouldn't say |
[650]16 : attempts. I know there was discussion. “Attempts” is too
[651]a strong a word.
[652]18 Q Weil, can you place in time your first knowledge of
[653]2 19 any such discussions?
[654]: 20., A Well, the first knowledge I had of any discussions,
[655]i 21 I was on TDY and this was October,November, 1963, with Fitzgerald
[657]: 22 | in Paris. And I knew that he was going to meet -- let me put
[658]; 23 it another way. I had overheard that discussions were going on
[659]3 24 | with a member of Castro's military but that he wanted, as |
[660]z 25 I recall, he wanted some British -~ I mean Belgian rifles and
[661]SECRET | cousin |
[662]rd Library
[664]HY 50355 Docld: 32275454 Page 10
[666]SECRET 5 |
[668]o
[671]z a telescopic sight.
[672]p02. 7
[673]m i Q Who wanted them?
[674]e S| nee meas —
[675]2 " A This military guy that was in Fidel's -- I think
[676]3 4
[677]at one time he was a commandante. Now, I knew that was going
[678]e , H
[679]~ on. I didn't participate in it because I was there for another |
[680]6 |
[681]reason. And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgeral
[682]7 ; |
[683]met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-|
[684]a. . ; |
[685]: tive of the Attorney General, Bobby Kennedy. j
[686]9 - . |
[687]7 I provided all those files. There are 19 valumes that vi
[689]1c | os
[690]~ we gave to your seople. But I don't know who was reviewing
[692]: . |
[693]‘And who were the parties to the conversation you over
[695]aa them. . I think Belin was going to do it himself. |
[696]3 le. Q Yes. He is. He is doing it himself. |
[698]. te You said there were 19 volumes of documents with
[699]< le
[700]3 = respect to this. |
[701]aan A 19 files, manila. |
[702]+6 9 All having to do with possible assassination? |
[703]iv A All having to do with this whole time period and --
[704]1é can we go off the record for a minute?
[705]3 9 (Discussion off.the record.)
[706]: £0 BY MR. MANFREDI:
[707]Es el” 9) The first knowledge of such conversations that you |
[708]2 i
[709]B " ; : : i i
[710]5 22". had, I take it you obtained on a trip to Europe with Mr. i
[711]a i
[712]a 23: : |
[713]P 2: Fitzgerald?
[714]Z 24 .. A tI simply overheard it, that is right.
[716]r 5
[717]f
[719]i Ph tocopy from
[720]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[722]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 11 M-
[724]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[726]WARD & PAUL
[728]420 binet Street, S.E., Wastiungtun, D.C, 20005
[730]"HW 50955
[732]I
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[753]ao fies “as BSE OB LU
[755]| heard?
[756]i A A fellow named Néstor Sanchez.
[757]i!
[758]Q And Mr. Fitzgerald?
[759]A Yes, and I really can't recall some of the other |
[761]people. We were -- we had just moved the Station at that time,
[763]"in Paris, out of the Embassy into the old Rothschild Palace
[765]and we felt that it was probably bugged, so all conversations
[766]took place -- we waiked around the garden and tyat type of
[768]thing, and, you know, I was walking with somebody, somebody
[770]was in front of me, and you just overhear conversations.
[772]: A Yes.
[773]Q I see.
[774]Mr.’ Sanchez -- was he a member of the military?
[776]t
[778]|
[782]t
[784]4
[786]t
[788]|
[790]|
[792]! |
[793]“ Q This was in Paris? . |
[794]|
[796]|
[798]“y., Sanchez was in the Special Activities Staff.
[800]He was stationed in Washington. And he was in contact with
[802]" Cuban militarystype.
[804]Q Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive
[806]instructions with respect to this activity from another
[808]i) component of the Government?
[810]A Well, let me put it this way. I don't know whether
[812]i they received instructions. [I have to assume, and I am pretty
[814]i positive, that this was a result of a Special Group decision.
[815]And at this time vou have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was
[817]i overseeing this deal, vresumably for his brother, and he was
[819]| ) EC RET Photocopy from
[821][32275454 Page 12 Gerald Ford Library
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[925]HY 50955 DoclId:
[927]‘he did a number of things.
[931]part of that Special Group. He called the meetings, he presided,
[933]Q Were there any other occasions that you can recall
[935]in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of
[937]Fidel Castro was discussed?
[939]A No, not really.
[941]Q You referred to this as the first occasion. |
[943]i
[945]A ‘This is the first -- |
[947]9 Was there a second? 2
[949]A -- the first time I knew about it or éven heard it
[951]i
[953]discussed. |
[954]Q Well, prior to the investigation that is currently
[956]anderway -- I am referring now to our Commission's investigation
[958]-- were there any other occasions in which this subject came
[960]to your attention after this discussion in the garden in
[962]Paris? ; |
[963]A The only other thing that came to my attention was |
[965]that the decision was made not to provide him with this sight
[966]that he wanted. Whether that is right or wrong, I don't know,
[967]but that is what LT was told.
[968]Q When did you learn that? |
[969]A Oh, I would assume in -- must have been early 1964,
[970]around February, something like that.
[971]0) Off the record.
[973](Discussion off the record.)
[975], Photocopy from
[976]SEC RE! , Gerald Ford Library
[978]32275454 Page 13
[980]ag len Tens BING fs 12
[982]Zz 7 MR. MANFREDI:~ On the record.
[983]2 BY MR. MANFREDI:
[984]a 9 Mr. Sturbitts, are you familiar with a gentleman by
[985]° = the name of Frank Sturgis?
[986]° A Indeed.
[987]© Q Is your familiarity based on what you have read in
[989]the press?
[990]co: A No. It is what is contained in the files.
[991]G ‘
[992]° Q Have you caused a search to be made of CIA files,
[993]+ particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division,
[994]io - in an attempt to determine whether Mr. Sturgis ever had any
[995]= Le connection with the Agency?
[996]i a4
[997]3 le. A I have.
[999]z a ra) What were the results of that search?
[1000]25 A Absolutely no connection, never has been.
[1001]Lé Q When we talk about connection, are we talking about
[1002]it an employment relationship?
[1003]Lc A That is what I am speaking of.
[1004]2 19 e) Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor of
[1006]S 20. the Agency?
[1007]3 22 A No.
[1008]2 22° Q Was he ever a contract employee?
[1010]a as
[1011]= ae A No.
[1012]re
[1013]a z4 2 Was he ever a reaular employee of the Agency?
[1014]7 25° A No. -
[1016]Photocopy from
[1018]SEC RET ; Gerald Ford Library
[1020]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 14
[1023]SECRET
[1025]3 .
[1026]: ~ Q Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the -
[1027]2 i Agency? . , |
[1029]: ° : A Not to my knowledge. |
[1030]* 2 Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
[1031]6 pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against |
[1032]6 :
[1034]7 a . . i
[1035]A On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this |
[1036]é Agency. |
[1037]9 ; Q How did vou learn of those operations? ;
[1038]io A Through the newspaper. And through FBI reports. :
[1039]LL: Q Now, are these recent FBI reports?
[1040]: 12 A Oh, no. These go back -- I know at one time, the ;
[1041]z !
[1042]: 134 thing that comes to mind, I think he made a leaflet drop |
[1043]: -4 over Cuba and this was subsequently reported in the press and
[1044]+8 by the Bureau office in Miami.
[1045]~5 9 Do vou know who financed his activities? |
[1046]~7 A I have no idea.
[1047]2é Q Is it possible that Mr. Sturgis' activities were
[1048]3 19° indirectly financed by the Agency through ~- i |
[1049]: 20 A I don't see how. Frank Sturgis is a soldier of — |
[1050]E 21" fortune: has been. He has constantly tried to associate himselé
[1051]2 HI
[1052]3 22 | with the Agency. When I went through his file they wanted me
[1053]: 23° to classify the file and the way I classified it was “don't |
[1054]: Ba destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance."
[1055]265 | 9 Off the record. |
[1056]Photocopy from i
[1058]SEC REL ; Gerald Ford Library
[1060]HY 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 15
[1062]a? fe Ses PRE
[1063]14
[1065]|
[1067]|
[1069]|
[1071]~ (Discussion off the record.)
[1074]a é ,
[1075]& MR. MANFREDI: On the record.
[1076]: So BY MR. MANFREDI:
[1077]7 : Q . Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Mri.
[1078]5 4
[1079]Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
[1081]A Yes. Ihave custody of them.
[1082]7 ae a
[1083]Q And what is the volume of that material? . i
[1084]8 , _. :
[1085]; A As I recall, there are five volumes. Your Committee |
[1086]g -, .
[1087]called for them the other day after the article in the paper, |:
[1088]~< I guess it was last Saturday. They called for them Monday and |
[1089]+- they returned them Monday afternoon.
[1090]ie . - i
[1091]: 7 Q Do you know who examined those files? i
[1092]< r
[1094]: A No, I don't. :
[1095]4 i ;
[1096]3 -* Q You indicated a moment ago that Mr. Sturgis contacts |
[1097]aa the DCD office in Miami with some frequency, is that correct? |
[1098]1A : . Lays :
[1099]ae A Well, not great frequency but he does with tidbits :
[1100]i
[1101]+f of so-called information.
[1103]i Q Is this information limited to narcotics, alleged
[1104]29 , . |
[1105]z +e narcotics traffic? |
[1106]2 20 A Recently it has been.
[1107]Z 21 Q Has Mr. Sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office
[1108]z LE in Miami?
[1109]Jj ;
[1110]Pal - t
[1111]3 ae A Mr. Sturgis ‘has been told by the DCD office in Miami |
[1113]2 £4 to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the
[1115]to
[1118]FBI.: .
[1119]Photocopy from
[1121]SECRET Gerald Ford Library . |
[1123]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 16
[1125]249-6066
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[1173]stURE I
[1175]Q Do you know whether or not they consider him an
[1177]established contact?
[1179]A No manner.
[1181]Q Do they have any ~-- do they periodically seek to
[1183]collect information from Mr. Sturgis?
[1184]A
[1186]I can't speak to that but the records that we have
[1188]don't reflect.anything like that. Before they would contact
[1190]somebody in that context, knowing that there is a 201 file
[1192]on Sturgis, they would have to coordinate with the Latin
[1194]American Division before they did anything since we do hold
[1195]the file.
[1196]re] Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?
[1198]A A 201 file is a personnel file. it consists of any
[1200]information relating to an individual appearing in the press
[1202]as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing.
[1203]Q Personnel or personality file?
[1205]A Personality file, I should say. Excuse me.
[1207]Q Do you know whether or not there is any connection
[1209]or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr. Sturgis?
[1211]well, ZI will say this. Obviously, they do know
[1213]A
[1214]each other. They have to know each other from their days
[1215]in Cuba.
[1217]9
[1218]pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?
[1220]s £ recall, we employed Martinez around 196i,
[1222]' Photocopy from
[1223]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[1225]A No. A
[1227]32275454 Page 17
[1229]Do you know whether or not Mr. Sturgis ever partici-
[1231]SEVREI , 16
[1233]i * } I guess, and he was in our maritime activities. He was a
[1234]5 ‘ .
[1235]z ° | boat captain eventualiy. And he did participate in infiltrations
[1236]: ° | and exfiltrations and perhaps one or two raids, hit and run, |
[1237]; + | Sabotage-type actions against Cuba. Sturgis never engaged in
[1239]° any of these things. He never did it for us nor did he ever
[1241]t
[1243]é ' do it on any of our boats, planes, or -- anything that belongs
[1245]? to the Agency.
[1247]8 | Q When Martinez would run such an operation or captain
[1249]2 | a boat on such an operation, would he be charged with putting
[1251]i
[1253]ie] together his own crew?
[1255]7 ' A No. He had an assigned crew and every boat had a |
[1256]: 12 | Case Officer operating either out cf the -- probably out of’
[1257]< i . '
[1258]: is i the Miami Station. Sometimes I would assume that we did have
[1259]3 le) some people in the Key West base. But he, Martinez, would receive
[1261]LE] his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer. I>
[1263]8 | Q Sa it. is likely that he could have brought Sturgis
[1265]iv along on any of these operations? ‘ |
[1267]Lé A Absolutely unlikely. Oh, the guy whose name I was. |
[1268]3 =9 trying. to think oz, Chief of Staticn, John Dimmer. |
[1269]: 29 | Q And that would be.for a period of time between
[1270]i £1 i Shackley and Henze? |
[1271]z | !
[1272]; 22 | A Yes. |
[1273]: 22 | 9) 1964 to 1966?
[1274]: 24 A Something like that.
[1275]: 25 i Q Would vou describe briefly for me the nature of the
[1278]SEC RET Photocopy from
[1279]; Gerald Ford Library
[1281]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 16
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[1318]i
[1321]activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
[1323]your -- and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during
[1325]your 9-year tenure with those groups.
[1327]A
[1329]Well, there was -- it was an across-the-board
[1331]intelligence operation consisting of collection of foreign
[1333]positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary
[1335]activities, covert action, economic activities. That is about
[1337]the breadth of the thing.
[1339]2
[1340]A
[1342]Q
[1344]Now, these were all conducted through the DDO?
[1346]Right.
[1348]Now, let's speak for a moment about the paramilitary
[1350]operations. ‘Were these operations run out of southern
[1354]_ Florida?
[1355]A. Right.
[1356]9 And in particular out of the Miami Station?
[1357]A Yes.
[1358]2 Were there any other CIA facilities in that area of
[1360]the country that participated in these activities?
[1362]A
[1364]Not to my knowledge. |
[1366]Were there any southern harbors other than Miami
[1368]that were used in these activities?
[1370]I said
[1372]Q
[1374]Well, we had activities down in the Keys also. As
[1376], we did have a Key West base.
[1378]Nere there any other bases in that area of the
[1380]country that were utilized in these operations?
[1382]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454
[1384]SEC R ET Photocopy from
[1386]Gerald Ford Library
[1387]Page 19
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[1437]A Well, not that I would call a base. We did have
[1439]training facilities for the UDT teams.
[1441]Q What is a UDT team?
[1442]A Underwater demolition.
[1443]Q Where were those bases lacated?
[1445]i frankly don't know. They were down along the Kevs,
[1447]et
[1449]along that long peninsula going down there. There were a
[1451]number of sites. I really can't recall them.
[1453]Q Were there any other sites within the United States
[1455]in which paramilitary training was conducted, for people
[1457]carticipating in these activities?
[1459]A “Not ta my knowledge.
[1461]Q Where were these people trained?
[1463]A What do you mean?
[1465]Q Well, Cubans who participated in these activities.
[1466]A We trained them at these places we had in the Keys.
[1468]Now, there also ~-- some of them were brought up here and traine
[1470]at the Domestic Training Station.
[1472]2 Where is that located?
[1474]A That is down in Virginie.
[1476]2 Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these
[1477]raids? .
[1479]A Occasionally, I would think that -- you have got to
[1481]understand at this time that we hac a great many contract
[1483]independent contractors and this type of thing.
[1485]Phot f
[1486]5 E Cc R ET Ge rald Fo rd Library
[1488]employees,
[1490]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 20 -
[1492]|
[1493]f
[1494]A
[1495]|
[1498]DSEVUKEE
[1500]25. A By this time, yes. :
[1501]: Gerald Ford Library
[1503]19
[1504]19
[1505]3
[1506]g i: ae . ow |
[1507]+ ' Most of the paramilitary operations and the training was }
[1508]& 2; ; . . : .
[1509]% i conducted by the Special Operations Group which is another
[1510]i 5!
[1512]: | entity of the -~- |
[1513]7 a Q DDO?
[1515]A DBO.
[1516]é . Lage - . . .
[1517]Q Now, the facilities that we have been talking about,
[1519]- training facilities, were manned, then, by the Special
[1520]8 . : . . . ‘ : - 5
[1521]. Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special i
[1522]ar Operations. Group, is that correct?
[1523]is A Nell, supervised, ves, and I would think that probabliy
[1524]++ some of the training was given by their people. The Domestic |
[1525]1
[1526]1
[1527]: fe Training Station is under the Office of Training and -- but I
[1528]s .
[1529]z Le would think that in the paramilitary field that the SOG would
[1530]3 we probably starf the training facility with their people who have
[1531]26 the expertise in paramilitary operations. |
[1532]. f
[1533]t
[1534]16 9 Now, were the people that were being trained at
[1535]a° these facilities basically Cuban refugees?
[1536]LE A Yes. i
[1537]2 19 9) And at the outset = take it not many of those people
[1538]S ~ |
[1539]ES j
[1540]2 20 were American citizens?
[1542]2 ei A No. :
[1543]3 £e 2 Or had become American citizens. I
[1544]3 . . ; i
[1545]~ 23 A I would assume a great many have.
[1546]as t
[1547]3 24 - Q By .this time.
[1548]= |
[1550]= Photocopy from |
[1551]i
[1552]|
[1554]SECRET
[1556]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 21
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[1597]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 22
[1600]|
[1601]|
[1602]|
[1603]|
[1605]SEGKE! 20
[1607]Q At the present time, how large is that Cuban communi
[1609]in Miami? Do you have any idea?
[1610]A Well, it is extremely large. I would think it is
[1611]-~ I was trying to think. I would say up towards a
[1613]miiitary people.
[1614]9 You spoke about caramilitary operations and covert
[1615]action. How do you distinguish between those two categories
[1617]of activities?
[1619]Pan
[1621]3 Well, actually. one can fall into the other. The
[1623]paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days
[1624]we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action was
[1625]media placement. We had a number of operations at ~-- legal-
[1627]type cperations, harassment operations. For instance, Fidel
[1629]seized a great many art treasures. and in particular he-had a
[1631]Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the finest in
[1633]the world that he sold to dealers in Europe. He had paintings |
[1635]that. were immensely valuable that he tried to have auctioned
[1636]in London and the London auctioneer would not accept them
[1637]because he obviously didn't have clear title to them. He was
[1639]-- they were stolen,in the eyes of the auctioneer. He was
[1641]forced to auction them in: Toronto, Canada.
[1643]We ran legal operations, got the owners and had them
[1644]hire attorneys and bring them to court and this type of thing.
[1646]He seized these race horses. He tried to peddle them
[1648]in Evrope and up in Canada. Ne ran opposition against that
[1650]S E C R ET Photocopy from
[1652]Gerald Ford Library
[1655]SECRET _ -
[1657]i~)
[1659]ea i
[1661]z type of thing.
[1662]a i 2 These were what you considered to be covert operationB?
[1663]3 | |
[1664]5 “4 A Yes, covert action. |
[1666]E 4 ee be ee ; |
[1667]9 Now, this is what you were referring to, legal- !
[1668]6, H
[1669]type operations?
[1670]~ A Yes.
[1671]Fo ;
[1672]; 9) You used legal process to harass Castro.
[1673]oo A Yes. ;
[1674]yo ) What other types of harassment activities did you :
[1675]r :
[1676]29 "yun that would fall under this covert action category?
[1677]Ti :
[1678]7a A Well -- i
[1679]TT
[1680]: “a ne) Would economic warfare be ~- ‘
[1682]2 _ ; ; . .
[1683]: +e A That was sort of something separate unto itself,
[1684]3 a4 This was -- the economic wartare aspect of this thing was a
[1685]_ . Loe = : = . . i
[1686]~~ decision of the Special Group to enrorce an economic blockade.
[1687]+6 ) what special group is that? :
[1688]l
[1689]i” A Tt is now called the Forty Committee.
[1690]ic: Q Is that 302 Committee?
[1691]2 22° A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too. First of all,
[1692]2 oa |
[1693]3 29, it was called the Special Group, CI, Counterinsurgency. Then
[1695]5 21) it went to the 302 and then it had another name in between
[1696]E 7
[1697]3 221 shere and now it is the Forty Committee.
[1698]a a i
[1699]a a ;
[1700]< £5 4 Q All right. We will return to that a little bit
[1701]2 £4. later, put what other types of harassment were you running i
[1702]3 25 i ai g _
[1703]) : against Castro Photocopy from ;
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[1706]SECRET
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[1711]it
[1712]2
[1713]3 1 4
[1714]$ 4 A This is what I was trying to think of.
[1715]= 54
[1717]a i Q ~~ that would be considered covert action?
[1718]2 _ i
[1719]é | ; _
[1720]2 i A Well, as I say, a lot of propaganda, press placement,
[1721]F A 4
[1722], Media placement. ft has been so long ago I really don't
[1723]' remember. I know we had a number of things going against him.
[1724]a
[1725]~ ye used suasion, moral suasion, otherwise. We did some
[1726]7 3 . , ;
[1727]i extra-legal things. We tried to get to his sources of supply,
[1728]particularly when they were countries that we had treaties
[1729]1 wkth, NATO countries, Canada, this type of thing. ;
[1730]Q Let's taik about each of those in turn. You said
[1731]Lili 7 _. -_ - oa :
[1732]i you used moral suasion. What kind of activities are you
[1734]12 || -
[1735]3 | veterring to? |
[1737]4 13 | . ; a: :
[1738]: ar A Well, in the moral suasion field we -- actually, we
[1739]5 “3 vere the catalyst in this wnole thing and we had the leqal
[1740]““"  aetivities, the legal -- well, f don't know how you would
[1741]i :
[1742]16 Il ; . .
[1743]~' phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control |
[1744]i :
[1745]yt . . ; : ws . i
[1746]~' | regulations of the Treasury Department, the Trading with the
[1747]te Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Department of
[1748]‘|
[1749]3 19 Commerce, the Export Control people.
[1750]fod if
[1751]¢ 4
[1752]mt {1
[1753]e 20 I. guess as vou are aware, Cuban industry was totally
[1755]- i
[1756]3 1H ; . , . .
[1757]5 el | U.S.-oriented. As parts began wearing out and this type of
[1758]é i , :
[1759]a a | thing, Castro had his little people there running around trying
[1760]d | i
[1761]3 at i -to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S. companies. Where
[1762]g 24 |. we would find this out througn all-source intelligence, we
[1764]|
[1765]1 : .
[1766]2 . ;
[1767]25 | or the Treasury people or the Commerce people would go to the
[1769]|
[1771]SEC RET ; Photocopy from
[1773]HW 50955 Docld!32275454 Page 24 Gerald Ford Library
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[1873]executives of these American companies and ask them to tell
[1875]their foreign subsidiaries not to provide the spare parts
[1877]and the other things that Castro might need. We had the
[1879]Department of Commerce -~- we identified 600 of the major U.S.
[1881]companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry.
[1882]We had the Department of Commerce send letters to those 600
[1883]manufacturers and ask them to cooperate with them in denying
[1884]any spare parts tothe Cubans. This was a fairly concentrated
[1885]effort to really isolate them.
[1887]Q All right. And that is what you were referring to
[1889]as moral suasion?
[1891]A Yes.
[1893]2 Anything else in that category?
[1895]A Not really. None that I can think of.
[1897]2) Did you make the same kind of efforts with foreign
[1898]companies?
[1900]A At one point we did but it was absolutely useless,
[1902]the point.-in
[1904]to*stop that sale. The British Government turned us down
[1906]flat.
[1907]2 Now, did you attempt to reach any other sources of
[1908]supply?
[1909]a
[1911]program. If there was a single source of supply for a
[1913]particular item we would go in and buy it to deny the Cubans
[1915]Photocopy from
[1916]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[1918]case being the Leyland buses. We pulled all stops
[1920]A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive ourchasing
[1922]|
[1924]i
[1927]ao tbe “en FEES § ‘ 24
[1931]3 4
[1932]3 1!
[1933]3 ' the market.
[1934]g 2
[1935]& 1 Q Would that then be re-sold somewhere on the domestic
[1936]2 i A Yes.
[1937]Q -~ domestic market?
[1938]c ;
[1939]A No. It would be re-sold abroad.
[1941]Q In all cases?
[1942]7 ; a es ,
[1943]; A The cases that I was associated with, it was all
[1944], !
[1945]sold abroad.
[1946]9 |
[1947]2 What kind of purchases were made? :
[1948]Lo a
[1949]A Well, we purchased at one point -- we purchased |
[1950]Ll.
[1951]> gome Bright Stock in Antwerp.
[1952]5 LE
[1953]3 2 What?
[1954]‘4
[1955]4 1é . F
[1956]3 A Bright Stock.
[1957]° _ ) What is that? |
[1958]_ A fleavy, heavy oii, and since Cuba -~ 85 percent of
[1959]Vea . .
[1960]+e her energy comes from oil, this was considered ‘a critical |
[1961]at . ; oa ;
[1962]commodity. Bright Stock can be -~ oh, it is almost like tar, |
[1963]an
[1964]i melted tar, and it can be cut into additives, lubricants, this
[1965]i
[1966]19 . ; a .
[1967]3 _ type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy. So
[1968]x ac: we had an oil firm purchase this Bright Stock froma dealer for
[1969]5 Ra _ which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Steck was eventually
[1970]= Re solid in Africa.
[1971]3 ee 3 “Do you know of any sales of such materials that
[1972]5 ae were made within the United States? Resales, I should say.
[1973]° ze A No.
[1975]Photocopy from
[1977]SECRET | Gerald Ford Library
[1979]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 26
[1981]wo Eee EG
[1982]3 1: :
[1983]¢ F Q In addition to preemptive buying were there anv
[1984]o vt
[1985]a 24 ,
[1986]a | other actions taken by this group with respect to sources of
[1987]2 it H
[1988]cd 34
[1989]2 | supply to Cuba?
[1990]a A Well, we did provide through third country agents
[1991]who got orders for Cuban goods, in collusion with the Commerce
[1992]7 Department, and I would assume the Special Group, we had :
[1993]7 ;
[1994]"replacement parts manufactured that were substandard. !
[1995]i
[1996]Bs . - ; ; |
[1997]3 9 And vou nad them sold through foreign companies? i
[1998]. A Well, we had our agents. get the Cuban orders ail
[1999]Low. a 3 : ans ey ian mei
[2000]. over Europe. Then they would come back and, as a matter of ‘fact,
[2001]“~' the former Secretary of Commerce, who is on your Committee, Des.
[2002]12
[2003]3 “<“ "and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this. H
[2004]< a |
[2005]: 13 1
[2006]a Q Mr. Dillon?
[2007]3 a a No. He was Secretary of the Treasury.
[2008]7 Q But -- i
[2009]i
[2010]“o : A But vou must remember that these American -- i
[2011]a
[2012]~! Q Mr. Connors? \
[2013]a A Yes. But you must remember these American manufacturers,
[2014]2 13 well, their places were nationalized and they were only too |
[2015]2 t |
[2016]7 a {
[2018]¥ ““ happy to work with us. And actually, it was a cash deal, bona
[2019]2 F i
[2020]5 oe “ fide business. These things were transshipped through two :
[2021]3 oo i ae
[2022]5 ze | or three countries, finally wound up in Havana.
[2023]F :
[2024]“ ae - sg i
[2025]5 en 9) You referred to some extra~legal activities.
[2026]i | | :
[2027]2 “st A Yes. That is what I was trying to think of, what |
[2028]= on | . . i
[2029]7 £5 | think -- I remember this was on one of
[2031]| we did. ~ just can't
[2032]|
[2033]|
[2035]SECRET ; Photocopy from |
[2037]i
[2038]Gerald Ford Library
[2039]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 27
[2041]ad fhe Sus BM He 26
[2043]: - our activities but I just can't think -- I remember this was
[2044]; ° on one of our activities. but I just can't remember what the
[2045]: - extra-legal was. I just can't remember what it was. I know
[2046]° : it was one of the parts of the program. |
[2047]; 1p) This was illegai activities? Is that what you are
[2048]° referring to?
[2049]; A Well, I wouldn't say they were illegal, but they
[2050]° weren't exactly legal, I don't think. Perhaps they were in a .
[2051]° gray area some place.
[2052]te —— Q Well, whose laws are we talking about, international |
[2053]x= law, the laws of the United States? ;
[2054]3 aan A> I would have te go back and review the thing. I |
[2055]: we really can't remember this. I would have to go to the files.
[2056]; is Q Where could we find that kind of thing in the files? |
[2057]i
[2058]== A ‘I would think probably. down in the Records Center some
[2059]ue place. . !
[2060]a" . 9 Would it be cossible to obtain that material some
[2061]is time during the lunch hour? ;
[2062]3 2 A No. re is forty miles away. |
[2063]: ec Q Well, is there some place in the building where
[2064]: et you could refresh your. memory? :
[2065]: ze A Not to my knowledge. All that stuff has been shipped.
[2066]J : . ‘
[2067]: ee This is talking 11 years ago, 12 years ago. All that material
[2068]: 4 has been retired. |
[2069]7 Es Q What category of activity would we be talking about |
[2071]r :
[2072]Photocopy from i
[2073]. SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[2075]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 28 \
[2077]DSEURE! |
[2079]- when we refer to extra-legal activities?
[2081]nO
[2083]A This is what I was trying to think of and I can't
[2085]CH
[2087]think of what it was. I know extra-legal activities was one |
[2089]Phone {Area 202) 644-6000
[2091]: parts of the program that we were involved in.
[2093]i
[2094]1
[2095]1
[2096]i
[2098]~ I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that might
[2100]rey)
[2102]tell me what that is.
[2104]2
[2106]Q Well, let's make a note of that and we will have to
[2110]come back to that.
[2112]ive)
[2114]A All right.
[2116]a ane) Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal
[2117]“= activities that were run against Castro? oe |
[2118]3 Le : A Well, the veople that would be knowledgeable are |
[2119]: te probably retired and I was running the program. So I ran |
[2121]a the economic. progran.
[2122]|
[2123][
[2125]Well, these are activities that were run in conneetion
[2127]Ow
[2129]Q
[2131]Oo
[2133]i
[2134]. . |
[2135]with the economic program? |
[2136]|
[2137]|
[2139]_ A Yes.
[2141]<5 . oo, ; i
[2142]ae Q We talked about media placement during this nine-
[2143]a : t
[2144]-? year period.. To what are. you referring when you refer to
[2145]BN media placement? .
[2146]ma > . .
[2147]oa A Well, stories or news items that pernaps our
[2148]an! . . ~ :
[2150]; Ae propaganda people wrote. We had them placed in newspapers
[2152]3 se !
[2153]one and magazines throughout the world. 4
[2155]as QO Would this aiso include broadcasts over radio
[2157]SPU inst Sirccs,
[2160]5. stations? see .
[2161]Photocopy from
[2163]SEC RET ‘ Gerald Ford Library
[2165]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 29
[2167]Piae (Ate 202) b44-600G
[2168]Cal a
[2170]on
[2172]Sh
[2174]WALD & PAUL
[2176]ire)
[2180]SOUS
[2182]1 Véaiangsiain, tO.
[2184]nd
[2185]Gd
[2187]a
[2188]A>
[2190]ALG brat Strut, Gok
[2192]HY 50955 Docld
[2194]to
[2195]ion]
[2197]SEVKEI
[2199]A Oh, yes. Radio is a very big part of it.
[2201]Q Now, were any of these newspapers or magazines
[2203]published within the United States?
[2205]A Not to my knowledge, no.
[2207]Q These were essentially foreign publications?
[2209]A Yes.
[2211]Q Were any of them published in the Cuban community —
[2213]in Miami?
[2214]A No. The intent was to get world. opinion against |
[2216]Castro. You don't do that by publishing in the United States.
[2218]Q “what about the.radio broadcasts? How were those
[2219]handled?
[2220]A Are you speaking of Radio Swan now?
[2222]Q Well, I am unfamiliar with how many radio stations
[2224]were involved. Was there more than one radio station?
[2226]We only had the one radio station but we did
[2228]contract time with Florida stations, a station in New York.
[2230]Q For broadcasts to what areas?
[2232]A For broadcasts to Havana.
[2234]9 And the station in New York, was that received also
[2236]-- was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United
[2238]States?
[2240]A I have no idea. I don’t know whether they used a
[2242]particular frequency to get this out or whether they did it
[2244]on short-wave or what they did.
[2245]A : ; Photocopy from
[2247]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2249]232275454 Page 30
[2251]SECREI 39
[2253]e
[2254]: * Q But the intention was to reach Cuba.
[2255]i 2 A Reach Cuba.
[2256]: “ f Q You referred to a station in New York, referred to
[2257]i as Swan. Were there others?
[2258]° A There were a couple in Miami that I recall. Not in
[2259]6 . . . on : . .
[2260]Miami. =I think there was one -~ yes, there was one in Miami,
[2261]? I think, and’ one down in Key West that they used.
[2262]8 : Q Where was Radio Swan located?
[2263]9 A On Swan Island.
[2264]ic Q Where is Swan Island?
[2265]oe A Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras.
[2266]3 1é Q As far as you can recall, were there any other
[2267]F ;
[2268]: 1s radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
[2269]5 is broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
[2270]28 A Well, there conceivably could have been, not that
[2271]16° I recall right now.
[2272]aa Q Do you recall any attempts by the Agency or groups
[2273]is affiliated with the Agency *o raise money from the American
[2274]3 19 public to support those’ propaganda activities?
[2275]: 20 A No. As far as I know, Radio Swan and this type of
[2276]: al thing was fully subsidized by the Agency.
[2277]; 22 " Q Do you recall the advertising campaigns that were
[2278]4
[2279]: 23 run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?
[2280]po Ba A Oh, yes.
[2281]5 2s ; 9 Was anything of that nature done in connection with
[2283]SEC RET fc Photocopy from }
[2285]Gerald Ford Library
[2289]HY 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 31
[2291]fANeea 20s) o44 OO00
[2293]Cal
[2295]Presa
[2299]WAELD tt bate
[2301]“. Wasdinagten, 2 0. 20003
[2303]Vode Garsl Sareadt, SLE
[2304]an
[2305]Ss
[2307]HY 50955 Decid:
[2309]EE f 30
[2311]i
[2312]y |
[2313]: Cuban propaganda?
[2314]A Not to my knowledge.
[2315]Q And that would include both the publications and the |
[2317]|
[2318]A Right. |
[2319]2 Let's talk about economic warfare for a couple of
[2321]i. the s
[2323]| guess
[2325]that,
[2327]some
[2329]this
[2331]this
[2333]32275454
[2335]moment
[2336]economic activities th
[2338]A Well, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the
[2340]regime,
[2342]| worked very closely with the
[2343]saying that he had such a voor crop and this type of thing and
[2345]lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schools, any
[2347]place.
[2349]|
[2350]|
[2351]I
[2352]| New Yo
[2353]i
[2354]|
[2357]ts. Could you describe for me briefly the type of
[2359]that were conducted against Castro?
[2361]his credit worthiness, and this type of thing. We
[2363]Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in
[2365]tate Department and, well, for instance, in those days, I
[2367]it was back in 1964, the price of sugar had jumred from
[2369]about &@ penny a pound to 13 cents a pound, something like
[2371]i
[2373]|
[2374]and we couldn't understand why. So we kept -~ Fidel kept
[2376]|
[2378]we just couldn't figure out why he had such a poor crop because|
[2380]of our own island assets told us they were out there cuttihe
[2382]cane iike mad and the mills were working 24 hours a day,
[2384]type of thing. So subsequently, we found out that he was
[2386]He had no storage facilities and put it any place he |
[2388]could.
[2390]So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokers in |
[2391]rk, we surfaced this fact and the price of sugar took a |
[2393]Photocopy from |
[2395]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[2397]Page 32
[2399]ad en os TREE a 31
[2401]3 ;
[2402]3 + : . O°
[2403]3 "veal tumble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting.
[2404]eel t
[2406]a “ It was this type of thing that obviously he was
[2407]3 ‘I
[2408]5 “ : trying to build up the world price because he didn't have any |
[2409]7 . money, he was so short on his exchange, and obviously we aian'tl
[2410]-” : : |
[2411]fe) . . . e |
[2412]want him to get the exchange, So it was those types of ;
[2413]; activities.
[2414]7 . . :
[2415]Q Was the assistance of any U.S. businessmen or U.S. i
[2416]8 7 ; gg -
[2417]companies enlisted in that effort? i
[2418]3 :
[2419]A Oh, ves.
[2420]-* 2 In what manner cid you use U.S. companies and
[2421]*+ businessmen? i
[2422]a :
[2423]i “~~ A Well, we simply used them as the experts. A great
[2424]< . i
[2425]$ aad many ~- the sugar industry in Cuba was controlled by the
[2426]3 “= American community, by American bankers, and obviously they
[2427]~e lost everything when they had to pull out. Sugar is the :
[2428]; i
[2430]VA . . . 7 2 . i
[2431]=8 lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange, foreign exchange, this!
[2432]i
[2433]TM . > 8 ;
[2434]mn type of thing, and it was naturally our Number 1 target. So it }
[2435]+E was only natural that we would go to the American businessmen.
[2436]. q
[2437]5 i? QO What kind of assistance did you seek or obtain from
[2438]2 20 these businessmen? :
[2439]z zl A Well, we simply talked with them about why ~- you
[2440]3 Be © know, the market conditions. were, why the price was rising, if
[2441]Z re . we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar, what would
[2442]3 mo + - . .
[2443]z «4 - happen to the market orice. This type of thing. !
[2444]3 . .
[2445]+ £3 Q They were used as consultants,basically.
[2447]SEC RET Photocopy from
[2448]Gerald Ford Library
[2449]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 33 we oe
[2451]Phode (Aree 202) 544-0000
[2452]Cot ae)
[2454]en
[2456](oy)
[2458]34
[2459]it
[2461]WARE KR PALE
[2462]}- I
[2463]On
[2465]br it
[2466]m on
[2468]Io
[2471]Wastiiglon, OC. 29003
[2473]ALG Het Siecet, S.f.,
[2475]HY 50955 Docld:
[2477]had in Cub
[2478]organized
[2480]A
[2482]i)
[2486]Cuba.
[2488]9
[2490]A
[2492]a) Hi Cet Te 7 32
[2494]‘They were used as consultants, basically, yes.
[2495]Yr, ¥
[2497]We have spoken about the investment American pusiness|
[2499]a. Did it ever come to your attention that American
[2501]Aa
[2503]crime --
[2505]NO.
[2506]-- had considerable investment in Cuba?
[2508]No., Well, everybody knew that the Mafia was in
[2510]I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing.
[2511]|
[2513]The casinos were run --
[2515]I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force
[2517]during the war, I used to fly into Havana cn weekends and this
[2519]type cf thing.
[2521]“Ty
[2522]we
[2524]A
[2526]Q
[2528]A
[2530]Q
[2532]the support or assistance of any crime figures
[2534]whatsoever in the Agency's efforts against the
[2536]A
[2538]Q
[2540]Drew
[2543]|
[2544]|
[2545]t
[2546]e t
[2547]i
[2548]1
[2550]I understand that. It was fairly well known.
[2552]Tb was a criminal. element.
[2554]The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Havana.
[2556]Right.
[2557]Do you know of any attempts by the Agency to enlist
[2559]in any manner
[2561]Cuban regime?
[2563]No.
[2565]Have you ever heard of Mr.Roselli?
[2567]Oh, yes.
[2569]When was the first time you heard of Mr. Roselli?
[2571]i
[2572]. |
[2573]Well, I guess it was ~~ it seems to me it was either
[2575]Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a number
[2577]: Photocopy fro |
[2578]SECRET Gerald Ford tibeary |
[2580]32275454 Page 34
[2582]SECKET 33
[2584]2 i
[2585]3 :
[2587]& + of years.ago.
[2588]a f
[2589]gy 2 | _, a, .
[2590]2g | Q Was that the first time you heard of the man's
[2591]a J
[2592]q i
[2594]° | name?
[2595]3 2
[2596]_ a A Yes, as I recall.
[2597]; | |
[2598]“ Q is that also true of Sam Giancana?
[2599]an A No. I have heard chat name but I don't know where. —
[2600]H
[2602]‘ : Q In:connection with -=- |
[2603]S 4 A Not in connection with the Agency, no. |
[2604]4 !
[2605]care 2 In connection with the casinoS or -- i
[2606]i
[2607]~ 3 |
[2608]lt A No. my
[2609]| | | |
[2610]an Q ~~ gambling interests in Cuba?
[2611]7 2
[2612]2 te ; A No.
[2613]2 ‘
[2614]2 i :
[2615]; : 9 You know of. no instance in which organized crime
[2616]t
[2617]3 i+ ¢igures were used as consultants by the Agency?
[2618]am: A Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge |
[2619]+5 F of that whatsoever. |
[2620]a ) Do you know of any offers of assistance from figures |
[2621]ic of that type -~ |
[2622]a |
[2623]a 12 A No.
[2624]fol - i
[2626]5 4 - i
[2627]3 ec | Q ~- who were interested in getting back into cuba?
[2628]3 4 A No. 1
[2629]2 4 i
[2630]3 22 | 2 We were talking about economic warfare. We have
[2631]us ‘
[2632]a) ane . ; H
[2633]3 eo) talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low. What other
[2634]5 ; |
[2635]z £44 types of economic activities were conducted against Castro's
[2636]2 oes |
[2637]* 25 i Cuba? . |
[2638]Photocopy from |
[2639]i
[2641]‘ . : SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[2643]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 35
[2645]SECRET 7
[2647]2 i
[2648]8 Ro: . _ ; ; |
[2649]3 fe A Well, we used all-source information to find out what!
[2651]rae oy gents |
[2652]& | his commercial dealings were. When we would see -~ well, for |
[2653]3 il i
[2655]q oor, ; : . . . . ;
[2656]3 ‘ instance, the Nicaro Nickel Mine which is a. source owned |
[2657]8
[2658]a 4° | . ; a . . _ |
[2659]by the General’ Services Administration, finally got back into.
[2661]- production and nickel, of course, and still is -- was in short
[2662]E et. neg _ oss tae .
[2663]supply. We had a French firm, Societe le Nickel, who was
[2664]7 . .- ; . . .
[2665]buving almost:;the entire output of the Nicaro mines. And this
[2667]French firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to
[2668]~ : , i
[2669]we . .~ . . . . :
[2670]. 2 the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Centrol
[2671]a people and said, isn't there something we can do to stop these |!
[2672]H :
[2673]+-"  Je-Nickel exports coming into‘the United States? So they looked
[2674]3 St ; :
[2676]l2a . . . |
[2677]: “< into the thing and indeed they did. i
[2678]q :
[2679]2 a Q Who owned the mine?
[2680]P a ; i
[2681]3 ae A The U.S. Government owned it when Castro took it
[2682]-"° "over.
[2683]|
[2684]~2 Q I see.
[2685]+" ~A General Services. Administration. And it was leased t
[2686]te out for operation. But the ownership rested with the
[2687]19 .
[2688]2 ae Government. {
[2689]3 :
[2690]3 eC . So the Treasury simply made the French provide a
[2691]S fs
[2692]3 2... certificate of Origin for the nickel that went in -- they
[2693]c ‘
[2695]z 221 export a lot of metal that contains nickel, silverware, knives |
[2696]ul to . i
[2697]a a . - . . :
[2698]z £5 and forks, this type of thing, and -- you know, stainless
[2699]3 £4; steel, and since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply
[2700]5 |
[2701]* 25} ~- Treasury simply said you can‘t import any more into this ‘
[2703]‘i
[2704]i ; Photocopy from ;
[2705]SECRET : Gerald Ford Library ,
[2707]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 36
[2709]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2711]WARD & PAUL
[2713]410 First Sircer, S.E., Wastington, D.c. 20003,
[2715]HW 50955
[2719]raw)
[2723]24
[2725](R25
[2727]|
[2730]|
[2732]SECRET ——
[2734]country until we have a Certificate of Origin. As a matter
[2735]of fact, there was a boat that was pulling into the dock in
[2736]New York and they wouldn't let it unload. They just turned it
[2737]around. Eventually, over a period of months, le Nickel
[2738]found other sources and export privileges to the United States
[2739]were restored, |
[2741]You know, it is -- you just -- any time you raise
[2742]or lower a tariff you have economic warfare. It is that
[2743]simple.
[2745]Q Were there any other instances that you can recall
[2746]of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support of
[2747]American business firms?
[2749]A I know we were in touch with a great many American
[2750]business firms. We enlisted everybody's support that we could..
[2752]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[2753](Discussion off the record.)
[2755]BY MR, MANFREDI:
[2757]Q When we broke for a moment we were discussing other _
[2758]instances where the Agency has enlisted the support of America
[2759]business in economic warfare against Cuba. Can you think of
[2760]any other such instances?
[2762]A Oh, certainly. The Cubans were having.an awful time
[2763]with their Maritime fleet,such as it was. These boats, were
[2764]powered: with}\Nordberg engines. We simply went to the Nordberg
[2766]people and told them -- asked them to cooperate with us,which
[2768]Photocopy from
[2769]SE CRET Gerald Ford Library
[2771]Docld:32275454 Page 37
[2773]|
[2775]b.
[2777]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2779]10:
[2783]12
[2785]WARD & PAUL
[2787]i
[2789]410 First Street, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 20003
[2790]fae)
[2791]fav)
[2793]SECRET a
[2795]they said they would. They notified their manufacturer's
[2796]representatives around the world if they got any orders from
[2797]the Cubans they were to be refused. This type of thing.
[2798]We did the same thing with --
[2800]Q Let's just stop for a second. Now, was Nordberg
[2801]compensated in any way for cooperation with the Agency?
[2803]A No.
[2805]Q Were they compensated for the loss of business
[2806]involved in that activity?
[2808]A No. No.
[2810]Q I take it, you received similar cooperation from
[2811]other companies.
[2813]A Oh, a great many other companies, yes.
[2815]Q Did any American companies refuse to cooperate in
[2817]that manner?
[2819]A No. Not a one.
[2820]~ Q Were there any legal sanctions threatened against an
[2821]companies?
[2822]A No. No.
[2823]Q Were there any sanctions. that could have been brought
[2825]to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade with
[2826]Cuba?
[2827]A Well, in the first place, they couldn't trade with.
[2829]Cuba. They couldn't get export licenses from this country
[2831]“anyway. Then, under the Foreign Assets Control Act of the
[2833]SECRET Photocopy from
[2835]Gerald Ford Library
[2837]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 38
[2839]|
[2840]|
[2842]| SECRET -
[2843]: “ i Treasury Department you have the extra-territorialty clause
[2844]: ® | in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot --
[2845]: ° | foreign subsidiary of an American company cannot trade with
[2846]6 :
[2847]° 4 | the country that is designated and Cuba was a designated country.
[2848]° And all the businessmen were well aware of this. Nobody tried |
[2849]6 | , ; |
[2850]"| to twist their arm.
[2851]? Q Other than insuring that these companies refused
[2852]6 to accept orders from Cuba, which I take it you feel they were
[2853]9 | legally constrained from doing, what other types of support did
[2854]10 | you receive from American business?
[2855]|| A Well, if American business -- sometimes they would
[2856]2 ie receive correspondence, particularly, say, from ~- well, they
[2858]< is received it from Cuba asking for publications and this type
[2859]: i4 of thing. They would normally forward all this type of thing
[2860]+9 to the Commerce Department and the Treasury Department, or in
[2861]16 some instances they might call me and I would just give them
[2862]iv | a Post office box to send the correspondence to.
[2863]18 | Q- Any other types of support solicited or received by
[2864]3 i9 the Agency from American business?
[2865]: 20 A No. Not that I can recall. There just wasn't one
[2866]3 21 . firm we approached, and God knows we approached I don't know
[2867]: 28 how many, that wasn't extremely cooperative. As a matter of
[2869]: £5 | fact, a lot of them, you know, thought we weren't doing enough,
[2870]z 24 | that we ought to do a little more than we were doing, the
[2871]3 25 | government wasn't really pushing Cuba the way it should, but
[2872]| & EC RET Photocopy from
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[2875]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 39
[2877]SECRET 7
[2879]io] .
[2880]g :
[2881]3 1:
[2882]z ' outside of that, nothing. There wasn't any problem of coopera-
[2883]a 2;
[2884]a | tdon. There wasn't any arm-twisting. It was all voluntary.
[2885]3 . | .
[2887]2 i Q Did you identify yourself as CIA --
[2888]2 i
[2889]z 4
[2890]A Yes. }
[2891]5 . . . .
[2892]Q ~- in dealings with these companies?
[2893]“ A Indeed, I do and we went to the top level, even
[2895]the Board Chairman or the president. No problem at all. .
[2896]8 i ; : _ .
[2897]i . Q Let's taik about paramilitary operations. We started
[2898]9 ft
[2899]“= but didn't really discuss that in any depth.
[2900]1
[2902]i What kind of paramilitary operations were run
[2904]1 against Cuba by the CIA? ; |
[2905]if
[2906]; 12 | a ,
[2907]3 FI A Maritime operations.
[2908]: 12 | |
[2909]ar Q Is that the extent of it?
[2910]z a!
[2911]3 a A That is the extent of it.
[2912]25 I Q Were there any aerial operations?
[2913]16 | A Not to my knowledge.
[2914]x7 ~Q Leaflet drops?
[2915]2
[2916]te 4 A No.
[2917]3 | Q Bombing?
[2918]2 if
[2919]9 I
[2920]“ Hl
[2921]¢ 20 | A No. Of course, you had the over-flights. As far as
[2922]|
[2923]< ‘| i
[2924]3 ey I am concerned that is the only aerial activity. © |
[2925]7 ate | Q That was run by another directorate, wasn't it? |
[2927]3 £3 | A Yes. i
[2928]8 i:
[2929]a l |
[2930]g 24 Q Aerial photography, and so forth.
[2931]$ 25 A Yes. They run a flight when you ask them. It has to
[2932]H
[2934]| | SEC RET Photocopy from
[2936]Gerald Ford Library
[2938]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 40
[2940]SECRET os
[2942]c
[2943]3 .
[2944]g 1
[2945]g be requested and that is about it.
[2946]a 2: .
[2947]a Q And those were run out of the United States?
[2948]& 5
[2949]g i A Oh, yes.
[2950]F 4 3 ,
[2951]7 Q . Can you think of anything, any other type of para-
[2952]5!
[2953]“ military activity other than maritime operations. }
[2954]6:
[2955]A No. I really can't, no.
[2956]7:
[2957]. | Q Am I correct that those operations were manned
[2958]8
[2959]: by CIA contract employees?
[2960]9 |
[2961]i A Right.
[2963]Ley Q WhiiGh would include Cuban refugees.
[2964]iW ]
[2965]14 Oo
[2966]it ; A Right.
[2967]4 12 jj et ;
[2968]5 HI Q. And some:CIA officers?
[2969]é i
[2970]4 H a i
[2971]‘ 1S A Right.
[2972]3 14} Q Any other branches of the ‘services, Armed Services,
[2973]i dnvolved? This, of course, is posted Bay of Pigs. |
[2974]i A Yes. No, not to my knowledge. You have got to remember
[2975]H that: probably down at our Domestic Training Station we
[2976]; probably have people on-detail from other -~ from the military
[2977]| |
[2978]g 19 i branches in the Government, but other than that I don't think
[2979]¢ st
[2980]E |
[2981]g 20 | that -- of course, during the Bay of Pigs operation we also
[2982]é i
[2983]3 el | had people detailed into the Agency.
[2984]3 50 | .
[2985]= ae : Q Now, the training of persons involved in maritime
[2986]Wl
[2987]g 25 i operations, I take it, was conducted in part within.the
[2988]a i
[2989]z 24 United States and in part outside of the United States. Is
[2990]. 25 | that correct? . 7
[2991]| a Photocopy from |
[2992]Libra
[2993]| SECRET Gerald Ford rary
[2995]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 41
[2999]Phane {Area 202) 644-6000
[3000]tae]
[3002]WARD & PAUL
[3008]19
[3010]20
[3012]el
[3014]22
[3016]29
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[3020]4b fiest Siscet, S.E., Washiintgion, M.C. 20003
[3022]HY 50955 Docid:
[3024]'
[3026]SECRET 7
[3028]A I would think. probably the major portion of it was
[3029]conducted within the United States.
[3031]Q ‘The Keys would be considered within the United
[3032]States.
[3034]A oh, yes.
[3036]Q Or were there any locations where it was conducted
[3037]outside the United States?
[3039]A Following the Bay of Pigs,I don't think so. Not
[3040]to my knowledge. I just don't know, I just don't recall
[3041]but I don't think that -- I think ail the training was done
[3042]domestically.
[3044]Q Now, what kinds of operations are included within
[3045]this category of maritime operations?
[3047]A Well, the infiltration. operations, infiltrating
[3049]agents into Cuba, exfiltrating agents, hit and run sabotage
[3051]- raids. That is about the extent of it.
[3053]- Q Now, when did. these .operations commence? Was it
[3055]shortly after the Bay of. Pigs?
[3057]A I would -- I think these operations were probably
[3059]at their height during the period about 1963 through, say,
[3061]1967. The program was terminated in 1968, I think in December
[3063]1968, something like that.
[3065]|
[3067]Q Why was the program terminated? |
[3068]A First of all, it was too expensive. It wasn't provia-
[3069]ing enough intelligence and it simply wasn't -- economically,
[3070]SE ¢ RET Photocopy from
[3071]Gerald Ford Library
[3073]32275454 Page 42 J
[3075]Phone (Area 202} 544-6000
[3076]ay)
[3078]10
[3080]li
[3082]12
[3084]WARD & #AUEL
[3086]18
[3088]19
[3092]22
[3094]25
[3096]24
[3098]410 Firsl Sircet, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3100]25
[3102]HW 50955 Docld:
[3104]20 -
[3108]H
[3111]SECRET | a
[3113]it wasn't feasible to continue these things. The agents were
[3114]getting wrapped up. We were ~-- we just felt that the return
[3115]wasn't sufficient for what the investment was.
[3117]Q You say the agents were getting wrapped up.
[3119]A Yes.
[3121]Q ° What do you mean by that?
[3123]A When we infiltrated an agent, Cubans would identify
[3124]him and capture him.
[3126]Q These various types of paramilitary operations that
[3127]were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by the
[3128]Forty Committee? ~
[3130]A Every operation received a specific approval from
[3132]the Forty Committee.
[3134]Q In advance?
[3135]A In advance.
[3136]Q Now, what was the procedure for submitting -- for
[3138]initiating such an operation?
[3140]A Well, normally in the case of an infil or an exfil.
[3141]or perhaps we wanted to lay down the cache:
[3143]Q You are referring to a cache of arms.
[3145]A A: cache of anything, replay of radio, batteries,
[3146]whatever they might need. If we decided that we should have
[3147]one of these operations and the request would go from here
[3148]over to the,’ I guess to the White House and then the Forty
[3150]Committee at its weekly meeting -~ they used to meet very
[3152]SECRET Photocopy from
[3154]Gerald Ford Library
[3156]32275454 Page 43
[3159]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3161]WARD & PAUL
[3163]410 First Streei, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3165]HY 50955
[3169]25
[3171]24
[3173]25
[3175]Docld:
[3177]ot GRE f 42
[3179]frequently -~ they would either approve the operation or say
[3180]no. These operations had to be planned well in advance because
[3181]the tides had to be right, the moon had to be in the proper
[3182]phase for communications and this type of thing. And these
[3183]things, all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of
[3184]Staff, the Navy, the Coast Guard, the FBI. If we were
[3185]exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
[3186]Every Government agency or enforcement agency or military
[3188]agency that had: any involvement whatsoever;..and the entire
[3190]thing was coordinated.
[3192]Q Do you know of any such paramilitary operations
[3194]that were run unbeknownst to the Forty Committee?
[3196]A No.
[3198]Q What kind of volume of operations are. we talking
[3199]about?
[3201]A You are not talking about a very big volume of
[3203]operations because of the planning that had to go into these
[3204]things. I would say that probably at the height of the thing
[3206]they may be running three or four a month. No more than that.
[3208]Q You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having
[3209]run 300 operations.
[3211]A I have seen that.
[3213]Q Is that inaccurate?
[3215]A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind. He
[3217]may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-
[3219]SEC R ET Photocopy from
[3221]Gerald Ford Library
[3223]32275454 Page dd
[3225]SECRET -
[3227]a
[3228]: 1 | tions. Obviously, these guys trained. In order to run one
[3229]z 2 | of these operations, you know, you would have to have a mother
[3230]: ° | ship in place and rubber boats and the UDT people to go in: to
[3231]8
[3232]a 4 | see if there were mines and this type of thing on the shore
[3233]5 tefore you go. So he may have considered that all these train-
[3234]6 | ing exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-
[3235]7 pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba.
[3236]8 Q Now, from what specific locations were these
[3237]9 operations launched?
[3238]10 A They were mostly launched from the: Keys.
[3239]ii . Te Any other locations?
[3240]z le A Not to my knowledge.
[3242]; 16 Q Now, would you describe for me the kind of hit and |
[3243]9
[3244]: 14 | run sabotage operations that were conducted?
[3245]15 A Well, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against
[3246]16 the Texaco refinery.
[3247]1? _Q What used to be the Texaco refinery?
[3248]H
[3249]18 A What used to be the Texaco refinery.
[3250]3 19 MR. MANFREDI: Off the record.
[3251]; £0 5 (Discussion off the record.)
[3252]E 21 | THE WITNESS: These things, a great amount of planning
[3253]: 22 | went into these things. We did have a model of the refinery.
[3255]: 25 We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this
[3256]: £4 type of thing to do the most effective damage, This was run. It
[3257]: 25 | was successful, as I recall, not totally successful but it was
[3259]; . y from
[3260]SECRET coinarord ube
[3262]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 45
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[3267]WARD & PAUL
[3269]410 First Street, S.£., Washington, 6.C. 20003
[3271]HW 50955
[3273]10
[3275]12
[3276]13
[3278]14
[3280]16
[3281]1?
[3282]18
[3283]19
[3284]20
[3285]21
[3286]22
[3288]25
[3290]25
[3292]SECRET 44
[3294]a successful operation. By that, I mean they didn't do as
[3295]much damage as they wanted to because they had to get out
[3296]because the Cuban defense came after them. It was that type
[3297]of operation that we did.
[3299]As I recall, another time we took a team in to burn
[3300]some cane fields. Reaily, the classical operations that we
[3302]did in the maritime activities were the infiltrations and
[3304]exfiltrations.
[3306]Q Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?
[3308]A Not to my knowledge.
[3310]Q Was it impractical to use the base there for --
[3312]A Well, the base is so surrounded and has been that
[3314]I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry him
[3315]back. He wouldn't walk.
[3317]MR. MANFREDI : Off the record.
[3319](Discussion off the record.)
[3321]MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[3323]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[3325]Q Are there any other categories of sabotage run out
[3326]of:the Keys other than what you have just described?
[3328]A Well, we did lay down a cache, if you will, sabotage
[3329]kits to be used by our own island agents. They contained
[3330]sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put down
[3331]crank cases. Things of this nature.
[3333]One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage
[3335]s EC RET Photocopy from
[3337]Gerald Ford Library
[3339]Docld:32275454 Page 46
[3342]Phone (Area 202} 544-6006
[3344]WARD & PAUL
[3346]420 First Street, S.E., Washingten, O.C. 20003
[3348]HW 50955
[3350]19.
[3354]al
[3356]22)
[3358]23
[3360]24
[3362]25
[3364]from a base in the United States?
[3366]SECRET s
[3368]all the oil. We did that with a big operation. We made our
[3369]own oil, substandard. Additives, I should say, not oil. We
[3370]contracted with an American firm for that. And we shipped
[3371]it in through third countries in Europe. It did hit the target.
[3372]The thing we wanted to get at was the oil and the
[3373]automotive machinery on the island. We knew it was breaking
[3374]down and if we could get a complete breakdown we would have
[3375]everything at a standstill because in those days the automotive
[3376]equipment wasn't coming in that rapidly from Europe because
[3377]i
[3378]Castro didn't hve the money to buy it and they weren't going ta
[3379]extend the credit. |
[3381]The railroad system was in total disaster. The
[3383]Seviets had such a long logistics line, supply line, plus
[3385]the fact that the Cubans didn't like the Soviet equipment
[3387]because they were used to good American equipment. And these
[3388]were principal targets that we were trying to get to.
[3389]_ Q In your experience at the Agency can you think of
[3391]any other analogus or similar paramilitary operations run
[3393]A No.
[3395], Q I know there has been some paramilitary training
[3396]in the United States.
[3398]A _Oh, yes.
[3400]Q In connection with other operations.
[3401]A Oh, sure.
[3403]Photocopy from
[3405]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[3407]Docld:32275454 Page 47
[3409]i | SECRET 46
[3411]Photocopy from
[3412]Gerald Ford Library
[3414]SECRET
[3418]g 1 tage: .
[3419]¢ Q But do you know of any paramilitary operations that
[3420]q 2 |
[3421]a were actually run out of the United States?
[3422]* ° A No.
[3423]5
[3424]* a Q As far as you know, then, this is a totally unique
[3425]54, .
[3426]| Situation.
[3427]6 | A As far as I am concerned, it is, yes.
[3428]if
[3429]| .
[3430]7 | Q Now, how large a Navy was actually organized in
[3431]8 | Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as
[3432]9 | the third largest Navy in the Caribbean.
[3433]|
[3434]16 A That is right.
[3435]it Q What kind of equipment did these people have?
[3436]z le A Well, we had--~ honestly, everything from a canoe
[3438]: 1s up. to three to 500 foot mother ship. We had Boston whalers,
[3439]g it
[3440]3 14 | rubber boats. We had a number of craft in, say, the 27 to
[3441]25 45 foot. length. And they looked like real tubs. They were
[3442]16 painted-and they looked like they wouldn't even float but
[3443]17 they had-the fastest-engines in them. They could outrun any-
[3444]18} thing. They were extremely well armed. We had our under~
[3445]2 19 water demolition teams. We had a pretty good .Navy.
[3447]G 20. Q -. Did these craft operate under non-official cover
[3448]Cc
[3449]8 21 in the Miami area?
[3450]2 22 A Yes.
[3451]ra) : .
[3452]< 25 | Q Were there a variety of covers or was there one
[3453]: .
[3454]8 24] firm?
[3455]5 .
[3456]+ 25 | A No. Variety.
[3457]i ;
[3458]i
[3459]|
[3461]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 46 -
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[3468]WARD & PAUL
[3469]lo
[3470]W
[3472]18
[3474]19
[3476]20
[3478]22
[3480]23
[3482]24
[3484]410 First Sirzet, S.E., Wasnington, 0.C. 20003
[3486]25
[3488]HY 50955 Docid:
[3490]SECRET "7
[3492]Q Fishing companies?
[3494]A Well, fishing companies, Geodetic Survey, marine
[3495]supply. In all, I think during the period that the station
[3496]and these other entities were under’ commercial cover, or non-
[3497]official cover, I think we had 100 so cover companies.
[3499]Q Did any of these companies actually engage in any
[3500]legitimate commercial activities?
[3502]A Not to my knowledge, no.
[3504]Q _ None of them -- were any of them in competition with
[3505]firms in that area?
[3507]A These are probably what we would call devised
[3508]facilities. They were probably registered with the State of
[3509]Florida and they paid taxes and this type of thing, but if one
[3510]was. blown or became known, we just crossed that out of
[3511]existence and started up a new one.
[3513]Q What did Eugenio Martinez do when he wasn't running
[3514]these operations?
[3516]A Well, he was down ~~ this is one of the reasons, as
[3517]I told you before, we brought him back and put him under that
[3518]contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spent
[3519]under such strict operational discipline down in the Keys.
[3520]Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the time. He
[3521]came back ~-- he might come back once a manth, or something
[3522]like that, to see his family, perhaps once every two weeks
[3524]if he got some time off.
[3525]; Photocopy from
[3527]SECRET _ Gerald'Ford Library
[3529]32275454 Page 49
[3532]Phone {Area 202) 544-6000
[3534]WARD & PAUL
[3536]410 First Street, $.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3538]HW 50955
[3540]t
[3542]Gr
[3544]q>
[3546]22
[3548]25
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[3552]25
[3554]Docid:
[3557]|
[3558]I
[3559]i!
[3560].
[3561]i a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to
[3562]|
[3563]|
[3565]SECRET
[3567]Q I see. So some of these boats and personnel were
[3569]actually stationed full-time in the Keys.
[3571]| A Oh, yes. Oh, sure.
[3573]; Q Were there any operations run out of the United
[3574]States which involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
[3576]{ sugar or anything of that sort?
[3578]A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind.
[3580]i
[3582]|
[3586]| Puerto Rican thing?
[3588]Would you describe that for me?
[3590]' A Well, this is, I guess you-could term it a target of
[3592]opportunity. This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar
[3593]; to the Soviet Union and I forget exactly now what happened to
[3595]it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or
[3597]something, and had to put into Puerto Rico for repairs.
[3599]In order to repair it, I guess, and get it in the
[3600]drydock or wherever it was, they..had. ta remove the sugar and
[3601]put it in the. warehouse and at that time I guess somebody came
[3603]up with a plan to try to widen the rift between -- there was
[3605]put a harmless substance into the sugar that would make it
[3606]acid, sour tasting, and it wouldn't harm the sugar or the
[3607]individual, and some of this was done. And then when it
[3609]leaked, of course, we had to get rid of it and we had a sugar
[3611]firm buy it back from the Soviets. ! Photocopy from
[3612]Gerald Ford Library
[3614]SECRET
[3616]32275454 Page 50
[3618]A What did you have in mind specifically? You mean the
[3625]Phone (Area 202} 544-6000
[3626]Gri
[3628][o3) d>
[3630]WARG & PAUL
[3631]OO
[3633]S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
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[3635]fe
[3637]410 First Street,
[3638]ta)
[3639]ad
[3641]HY 50955 Docid:
[3643]| + were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?
[3645]those days the only thing, Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel.
[3647]SECRET 19
[3649]Q Bought it back from the Soviets?
[3650]A Yes.
[3651]MR. MANFREDI: oft the record.
[3652](Discussion ofE the record.)
[3653]MR.MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[3654]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[3658]Q Are there any other operations in which crops were
[3660]A No. No.
[3661]Q Place foreign substances in Cuban products? |
[3662]A In Cuban products? |
[3663]Q Yes. |
[3665][
[3666]A No. Not that I recall. You see, Cuba really -- in
[3668]The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely total .
[3669]chaos. God, they didn't have any citrus, they didn't have
[3671]anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving.
[3672]i
[3673]|
[3675]There just wasn't anything to eat. And Fidel was going around
[3677]with this big plan -~ of course, there were a number of
[3679]| experimental cattle ranches in Cuba. King Ranch had one there.
[3681]I forget -- several other European and American companies that
[3683]had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment—
[3685]32275454
[3687]| ing with the, you know, cross-breeding and this type of thing.
[3689]Fidel was preoccupied with this. He went up to
[3691]Canada and paid $100,000 for a bull and -- so he just put it
[3693]SEC R ET Photocopy from
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[3721]on an old Cuban Airways airplane. The damn airplane few too
[3723]i high and the bull became sterile by the time he landed in
[3725]Cuba. No thought given to, you know, pressurizing the cabin
[3726]and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this type
[3727]of thing. So he was helping us all along the line and
[3729]this here again, we generate propaganda, incompetence and this
[3730]: type of. thing.
[3732]: : But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product, no, we
[3734]: didn't go into that. Our object was to enforce the blockade
[3736]' and cut off his sources of supply.
[3738]: Q When was the Miami Station established?
[3740]: A As a station?
[3741]Q Yes.
[3742]A I think in September 1961. |
[3743]Q And that was several years before you became involved
[3745]|
[3747]i
[3748]4
[3749]; in Cuban matters? |
[3750]LA Yes.
[3752]|
[3754]|
[3756]Q Do you know of any other facilities of that nature
[3758]i within the United States, Agency facilities?
[3760]A You mean, targeted against the opposition?
[3762]Q ves.
[3764]i A A station as such?
[3766]Q Yes.
[3768]A No. You have some communications facilities that
[3769]| you really call stations because here again, they are not
[3771]SECRET f Photocopy from
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[3777]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3779]WARD & PAUL
[3781]ies)
[3783]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3785]HY 50955 Docrd:
[3787]SECRET st |
[3789]directed towards any domestic activity. They are in support of
[3791]overseas communications.
[3793]Q Of course, we have FR bases and DCD offices and
[3795]Office of Security officers, and so forth.
[3797]A Right.
[3799]Q But I am talking about actual stations. i
[3800]A Operating stations, no.
[3802]Q This is the only such station in the United States
[3804]as far as you know, is that correct?
[3805]A Right.
[3806]Q And was this station established to deal primarily
[3808]with Cuban activities?
[3810]A Yes.
[3812]. Q Cuban-related matters? |
[3813]A With Cuba, period. |
[3814]QO Did it have, when it was established, any other |
[3816]responsibilities with respect to Western Hemisphere activities?
[3818]A Not to my knowledge.
[3820]Q Entirely limited, then, to Cuban activities? |
[3821]j
[3823]A Yes, and in support of Cuban activity and other
[3825]countries in the Hemisphere,
[3826]Q When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
[3827]activities, what was the size or the number of personnel
[3829]attached to that Station?
[3831]A To that Station? Well, the Station had probably a
[3833]couple SEC RET Photocopy from
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[3853]j
[3854]i
[3855]|
[3857]SECRET =
[3859]couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
[3861]Agency, plus I don't know how many contract employees,
[3863]independent contractors, probably another. 200 minimum. It was
[3865]obviously the largest installation we,had. I think at its
[3867]height it had over 500 people in it.
[3869]Q
[3871]A
[3873]Q
[3875]A
[3877]Full-time Agency people?
[3878]No, no.
[3879]Combination of contract and -~
[3881]And fuli-time, yes. A regular employee we call a st
[3883]employee.
[3885]Q
[3886]people?
[3887]A
[3888]Q
[3889]A
[3890]Q
[3891]Miami?
[3893]A
[3895]Now, would Martinez have been one of those contract
[3897]Yes.
[3899]Even though he was located down in the Keys?
[3901]Oh, yes.
[3903]And what kind of facilities did the Station have in
[3904]Physical facilities.
[3906]Well, they were located on the south campus of the
[3908]University of Florida, I mean, the University of Miami, at
[3910]the old Richmond Naval Air Station. It was a self-contained
[3912]unit. It was pretty well off the beaten path, in fact, damn
[3914]well off the beaten path. It was about four miles from the
[3916]Dixie Highway inland. We had our own guard force.
[3918]Q
[3920]A
[3922]Official cover?
[3924]No. Non-official. ‘ photocopy from
[3926]Gerald Ford Library
[3927]SECRET
[3929]Docld:32275454 Page 54
[3932]SEUREI 53
[3934]y
[3935]| Q Non-official cover. What was the cover?
[3936]|
[3938]3 |
[3939]2 | A It was a commercial cover. It was called -~- the first
[3940]: ° one was called Zenith Corporation and it was set up with a
[3941]7 4 | President and Vice President, normal corporate setup. i
[3942]i ;
[3943]° Q Engaging in any business?
[3944]6 A No. |
[3945]7 | Q Now, in a community of that type, Cuban community,
[3946]6 | how long could a non-official cover last? |
[3947]9 | A Well, obviously it didn't, but it was research |
[3948]10 activities. Funded -- it-is a giant mechanism when you put |
[3949]il one of these things in for the funding and this type of thing,
[3950]2 12 | . €or. your: ostensible customers, establishing bank accounts.
[3951]2 H
[3952]; 13 | Q Yes, I understand.
[3953]& ' H
[3954]3 14) A So it was a research activity andthe only people that
[3955]|
[3956]| ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers. You :
[3957]16 | know, somebody would make an inquiry, you know, we can't accept
[3958]| any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
[3959]18 | type of thing, and it held up reasonably well. And.out of
[3960]3 19 | this one.thing, of course, then we were running these innumera~-
[3961]: 20 | ble -other™ covers with different activities. The guard
[3962]2 21 | force, of course, were like -~ well, they wore uniforms, similar
[3963]2 : i
[3964]3 ee to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing. And I think |
[3966]3 23 | that there was -- in the later days at that site I think the |
[3967]i 24 Department of Agriculture had offices in there and some other
[3968]2
[3970]25 Government agencies, in other buildings, of course.
[3972]| SECRET Photocopy from
[3974]Gerald Ford Library
[3976]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 55
[3978]fe
[3980]Phome (Area 202) 544-6000
[3981]Ae)
[3983]WARD & PAUL
[3987]22
[3989]235
[3991]24
[3993]4EO Virst Suicet, SEL, Washington, 0.C. 20003
[3995]25
[3999]SECRET . 54
[4001]Q And this particular Station, then, was under the
[4002]supervision of the group we have been discussing?
[4004]A Yes. They were staffed within the Cuban Operations.
[4006]9 When did the Western Hemisphere Division resume
[4007]responsibilities for the Miami Station?
[4009]A Well, when Des. Fitzgerald left as Chief of the
[4011]Special Activities Staff and became Chief of the Western
[4013]Hemisphere Division, he brought it back into the Division.
[4015]Q Is there presently a Miami Station?
[4017]A Oh, yes.
[4019]Q And how large is it at the present time?
[4020]A Well, since we -- I think when we closed down the
[4022]Cuban Operations, I don't know how large it is at the present |
[4024]time because we are in one of these periods. where: we -are
[4025]reassigning people, -but I think by the end of this fiscal year
[4026]there’are going to be between 11 and 14 people.
[4028]Q When you joined the group in 1963,. what functions
[4029]were being performed by the Miami Station?
[4031]A Well, all the classical intelligence functions. I
[4032]think I have lined them out at:one time ---collection of
[4034]positive intelligence, counterintelligence, paramilitary, this |
[4036]type of thing. Covert action.
[4037]Q This is the list of things you gave me earlier in
[4039]the deposition?
[4041]Photocopy from |
[4043]A Yes.
[4044]. Gerald Ford Library
[4046]SECRET
[4048]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 56
[4050]SECKET 55
[4053]f
[4054]; |
[4055]8 Ls .
[4056]g | Q Which of these activities, if any of them were i
[4057]s 2
[4058]a actually being conducted within the Cuban community in Miami?
[4059]i Y
[4060]é Bt ,
[4061]2 | A Well, the collection of foreign positive and probably
[4062]5 !
[4063]a |
[4064]|| counterintelligence.
[4065]5 I , |
[4066]i Q So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence |
[4067]6
[4068]| activities in the Miami area? |
[4070]7 i
[4071]| A Yes, sir.
[4072]8 | a ;
[4073]| Q Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter- ©
[4074]|
[4075]9 | intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting |
[4077]i i
[4078]10 | ain that area or was conducting in the area at that time? |
[4079]11 | A Well, we had a number of joint operations, as I
[4080]3 te | recall, with the Bureau. We had identified a Castro agent tha
[4081]a
[4082]13 | came in by small boat and when she was -- she came in witha }
[4083]x } |
[4084]< ~ H .
[4085]5 14 | number of other people. When she hit the -- they had a recep- |
[4086]16 | tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEW operation.
[4087]16 | The Domestic Contact Division office had people out there and.
[4088]1? we did, too. Our people from the DDO were under Immigration
[4089]18 and\ Naturalization Service cover. When the LEW people did the
[4090]3 is preliminary interrogation of these people they had to. fill
[4091]o {
[4092]u 20 | out forms, where were you born, this type of thing, biegraphic+
[4093]= el type thing. These forms’ would be passed to our-peopte who would.
[4094]s Re | look at the forms and based on previous experience or what
[4095]dl i
[4096]a ! .
[4097]3 25 | they might have been doing, md they felt that perhaps they
[4098]FA
[4099]é a4 might have some information of intelligence value, they would
[4100]. 26 reinterrogate them. /
[4101]| | Photocopy from |
[4102]SECRET Gerald Ford Library |
[4104]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 57
[4106]wi wRE i 56
[4108]3
[4109]: > It was in this manner that this gal came to our
[4110]z 2 | knowledge. We surveilled her for a long time and determined
[4111]< ° | that obviously she was receiving messages: and she was
[4112]g Gj .
[4113]° * i sending messages, So along with the Bureau we put a surveillante
[4114]5 on her and we obtained a van with DF equipment in it and
[4115]6 | indeed, she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 o'clock
[4116]i!
[4117]? or 4:30 or whatever it was, and the direction finder found i
[4118]8 i it was being beamed toward Cuba, this type of thing, and that
[4119]9 ! was oen of the examples of the CI activities we were involved |
[4120]0) in. |
[4121]11 | Q Were there many activities of that type? |
[4122]3 12] A Not really. You have got to remember that the |
[4123]|
[4124]15 | Bureau's Cuban squad was fairly small. I mean, it was a large |
[4125]; La squad in terms of FBI squads. It had 36 people on it, some- |
[4126]5 | thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple of |"
[4127]16 | hundred thousand Cubans around, you know, it is pretty nega-
[4128]i
[4129]17 ‘tive. This was one of the reasons that obviously from.-~—
[4130]18 in those days when we had formed these revolutionary fronts
[4131]3 ig | which were being run by the Cuban exiles, they were reporting
[4132]: 20 | to Case Officers and they would report on things in the
[4134]: | community, of people they thought were suspect and this type
[4135]: ee | of thing. These leads in turn were then given to the Bureau
[4136]: a and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved
[4137]: £4 | in CI activity.
[4138]: 25 | Q Would it be fair to say that the involvement in CI
[4139]| SECRET photocopy rom
[4141]Gerald Ford Library
[4143]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 58
[4145]J
[4147]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4149]WARD & PAUL
[4150]i on
[4151]Cr
[4153]22
[4155]235
[4157]caw]
[4158]pa
[4160]24
[4162]410 Furst Stecei, S.£., Washington, D.C. 20003
[4164]HY 50955 Dockd: 32275454
[4166]A
[4168]known as Legal Attaches,
[4170]the same as our Station was,
[4174](Whereupon, at 11:45 o'clock a.m., the taking of-
[4176]same day.)
[4178]Page 59
[4180]Yes, yes.
[4182]SECRET
[4184]to properly staff the thing?
[4186]You have got to remember, too, that a lot
[4187]of the people on that Cuban squad were in the legal section
[4189]of the Embassy in Havana. You know, the FBI overseas is
[4191]from Havana were down in Miami at that time. So there was a
[4192]relationship there that had gone over a period of years
[4194]between the Agency and the Bureau.
[4196]2 . ;
[4197]the deposition was recessed, to reconvene at 1:00 p.m., this
[4199]SECRET
[4201]obviously working out of the Embassy
[4203]and a lot of our Station officers
[4205]We will reconvene at 1:00 o'clock.
[4207]57
[4209]activities in that area was primarily a function of the over-
[4211]whelming number of these people and the Bureau's inability
[4213]Photocopy from
[4214]Gerald Ford Library
[4217]CE BENIN ANG SINS 4 L . SECRET 59
[4223]Puione (Area 202) 544-6000
[4226]WARD & PALL
[4228]20
[4230]21
[4232]Ze
[4234]235
[4236]24
[4238]410 First Sucet, S-E., Washington, O.C, 20003
[4240]25
[4242]HY 50955 Docrd:
[4244]AFTERNOON SESSION
[4245]Thereupon,
[4246]WILLIAM C. STURBITTS,
[4247]called as a witness bv Counsel for the Commission on CIA
[4248]Activities, and having been first dulv sworn by the Notary
[4250]Public, was examined and testified as follows:
[4252]i
[4254]EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION (Cont'd)
[4256]: BY MR. MANFREDI:
[4258]0. When we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the
[4259]Miami Station . Do I understand that the Miami Station was the
[4261]largest CIA station in the world?
[4263]overall contingency nlan that US Government had. Should Castro
[4265]|
[4266]ever be overthrown, these people would be the nucleus to go into
[4268]i
[4269]i
[4270]A ©6)UCOU The: «cLargest CIA station in the. world. —.
[4271]0. At its height?
[4272]| 7 |
[4273]i A Nothing comes anvplace close to it.
[4274]| |
[4275]0. I wonder if vou could describe brieflv for the recors |
[4276]A Well, the AMG?S were Cuban a Cuban intelligence
[4277]| organization in exile. We full intended -- this was part of the
[4280]|
[4281]|
[4282]|
[4284]Cuba and form a new Ministry of the Interior.
[4285]| ‘6 Now, Ministry of the Interior, is that a euphemism
[4286]for Security Agency?
[4287]A. Well, in most countries of the world the Ministry of
[4289]Interior, unlike ours, is the security force, internal and.
[4291]i Phot from
[4292]| SECRET |_Phatocony from.
[4294]32275454 Page 60
[4296]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4300]an
[4302]WARD & PAUL
[4306]18
[4308]21
[4310]22
[4312]23
[4314]24
[4316]410 First Street, S-£., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4318]20.
[4322]“ ad Ee Yon FRE 27
[4324]0. And these people were Cuban exiles?
[4326]A, Cuhan exiles.
[4328]0. How large an outfit were the AMOTS?
[4330]A Well, at one time -- I can give vou the exact figures
[4332]but I know it well exceeded over 199, probably closer to --
[4334]0. Go ahead. ,
[4336]A Probablv closer to 159, something like that.
[4338]a. Now, would that i59 persons be included within the
[4340]three to 599 who made up the Miami Station? ; |
[4342]AY No.
[4344]Q That was over and ahove the personnel of the Miami
[4345]Station? |
[4347]A. Right.
[4349]O. These people were fulltime CIA employes, weren't thev?
[4351]A Right. WE11, let me -- these people really were --
[4353]thev were being subsidized by the Agency. They were employed
[4355]bys vorcover:companies, the largest of which was called.Latin
[4357]American” Social. and Economic Research. Then we had another
[4359]smaller qroup that did the interrogating and they were under
[4361]vanothér cover, commercial -cover, -- I just don't recall what it
[4363]was, But these peop.e ostensibly were employees of these whollv
[4365]owned ‘proprietaries of the Aqencv. They were duly constituted,
[4367]incorporated, paid taxes, all this type of thing.
[4368]0. The salaries of these people, althouch paid indirectly
[4370]were vaid by the CIA?
[4371]Photocopy from
[4373]SECRET | Gerald Ford Library
[4375]snnenewssensngipaaaan stnnnnnnnnttenasertannnassagyaritantunanerontnthen
[4377]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 61
[4379]’ . DSEVKEI 60
[4381]: A That is right.
[4383]0. And was training provided them bv the Agency?
[4385]0 Oh, ves.
[4387]| A You said the smaller group of the two groups that made
[4389]up the AMOTS conducted the interrogations, is that correct?
[4391]A Right.
[4393]: 0. When vou speak of interrogations, are you referring eo
[4394]: debriefings? |
[4395]1 —_ . |
[4397]A Iam referring to debriefings of newly arrived oxties |
[4399]; |
[4400]| time here had acquired new information. |
[4401]Q. How were those -- how and where were those debriefingg
[4402]conducted? |
[4403]A. Well, normally the debriefings were conducted at Opa |
[4404]i Loca.
[4406]0. That is the Air Base?
[4408]: A. That is the old Air Base there but that is where the
[4410]reception center was for all the Cuban refugees coming in.
[4412]Sometimes if there was going to be a lengthy debriefing, we had
[4413]a residence which we rented and the interior was changed into.
[4415]small rooms like this where vou could bring people in, sit them
[4416]down, under controlled conditions, and debrief them without any
[4417]interference and this type of thing.
[4419]0 For how lonq a period did these debriefings ge on? ;
[4421]2
[4423]3 L
[4425]5 2
[4427]é 3
[4429]E 4
[4430]5
[4431]6
[4432]7
[4433]8
[4434]9
[4435]10
[4437], 12
[4439]3
[4443]3 13
[4445]0
[4447]3 14
[4448]16
[4451]. 18
[4453]y
[4455]3
[4457]E 22
[4461]: 23
[4463]7 24
[4465]¢ 25
[4467]HY 50955 Docid:
[4469]Photocopy from
[4470]Gerald Ford Library :
[4472]DO
[4473]| SECRET
[4475]32275454 Page 62
[4477]° Ew REE
[4479]3 1 i A You mean in terms of vears?
[4480]: 2 0. Yes.
[4481]: 3 A Well, I would think that I would probably say from
[4482]3 4 | about 1962, and I think the debriefings as such, of course --
[4483]5 we relied principally on the airlift for the people coming out |
[4484]6 and when the airlift was cut off, which Castro did -- cut off
[4485]9 : about, I quess about 1970 or '7l1, in that timeframe --
[4486]8! 0, I see.
[4487]9 ; A -~ that stopped the flow of the refugees, so we just |
[4488]16 ' terminated that part of the activity.
[4489]li 0. ‘Well, in addition to debriefing refugees that came
[4490]; 12! in in the airlift, did the smaller group of AMOTS have any othey
[4491]‘ = intelligence gathering functions -=
[4492]a
[4493]é 1e A No. . |
[4494]anil 0 In the community? ~
[4495]16 : A. Well, I can’t give vou a real ves or no-to that. I
[4496]1 : would suppose that there is an-outside possibility thev could
[4497]1s have been used to debrief: people within the: community, within
[4498]19 the Cuban community, but we had in the organization -- all these
[4500]people were Cuban with the exception: of we had what we call an
[4501]: On-Site Case Officer, who was a fulltime staff emplovee and he
[4502]had a couple of assistants; including a-secretarv. These people
[4504]were directly under his control. Though the organization as it
[4506]was set up, they had their own chief and this type of thing,
[4508]but the chief took his instructions from the On-Site Case Office
[4510]Phot from
[4511]SEC RET Gerald Ford library
[4513]410 First Strcel, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[4515]3
[4517]t
[4518]|
[4519]L
[4521]|
[4522]|
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[4535]fos)
[4537]WARD & PAUL
[4539]w
[4541]$.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[4542]fae)
[4543]fe
[4545]24
[4547]410 First Sircei,
[4549]HW 50955 Docld:
[4551]20
[4553]_— SECRET 62
[4555]Of course, if these people went out and did something on
[4556]their own, they could do things we were not aware of, obviously.
[4558]You can't -= you know what they are doing during their eight or
[4560]ten hours that they are going to work evervday but once they
[4561]leave, we don‘t know what they are up to.
[4563]0. Did they have CIA credentials?
[4565]A, No sir, because they were proprietary hires of this
[4566]commercial cover.
[4568]0. Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirements upon these |
[4569]people other than in their duties ~~ in their debriefing
[4570]capacity, I should sav? ;
[4571]A No. When -- there were -- obviously there was a
[4572]| standard debriefing form that covered questions of intelligence
[4573]interest or a battle, vou know, anvthing -= economic questions,
[4575]morale, and this type of thing. When these questions -~ when.
[4577]these people were cebriefed and the. debriefer wrote up the
[4579]report, it would be sent from the AMOTS over. to the Station.
[4581]if the debriefing report contained something of positive i
[4582]intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer -- well, not the
[4583]Case Officer but a staffer in the Station may or may not jot
[4585]down some additional requirements and.ask that that person be
[4587]recontacted and asked specific. questions.
[4589]0. Now, in addition to debriefing, what else did this
[4591]smaller broup of AMOTS do for the Agency in. the Miami area?
[4593]A This was their prime purpose,
[4594]SEC RET Photocopy from
[4595]Gerald Ford Library
[4597]32275454 Page 64
[4599]a SECRET 63
[4601]3 1 0. How large was that particular group?
[4602]¢ i
[4603]2 2 A. Oh, there were only about, I would say at the outside,|
[4604]: S | I think there were about five debriefers with the support people
[4605]E 4 which would be secretaries, translators, strictly administrative
[4606]5 types. = don't think there were more than probably 12 or 15
[4607]6 J in that croup, if there were that many.
[4608]% MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
[4609]3 | 7 (Off the record discussion)
[4610]9 BY MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[4611]16 | 0. Before we move on to further. discussion of the AMOTS |
[4612]1 could. you briefly describe for.mé what role the CIA plays in |
[4613], 12 | resettling Cuban emigres?
[4614]2 | | .
[4615]7 13 A CIA doesn't resettle Cuban emiqres. |
[4616]: wa! 0. What Agency is charged with that responsibility? |
[4617]15 A Health, Education and Welfare.
[4618]ul 0, Does CIA nlav any role in that vorocess?
[4619]1 A We may assist if we are. asked but the idea of the wholle
[4620]13 airlift was having relatives here. for somebodv to claim you when
[4621]. 19 you came in so you wouldn't become a ward of the State of the |
[4622]3 20 i Government, and normally when these refuqees came in, thev were
[4623]J ot
[4624]: Pal : processed through the Center and then they had a place down on
[4625]4 29 | Biscavne Boulevard thev called. Freedom House and this was, of
[4626]i
[4627]: 23 course, all run by HEW, and they -~- if need be and they had to
[4628]j 24 stay overnight or stav several davs, HEW would put them up and
[4629]2 25 |
[4631]Photocopy from
[4633]| : SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4635]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 65
[4637]| care for them in Freedom House.
[4638]|
[4639]|
[4641]a 1!
[4643]Phone (Area 202} 544-6600
[4645]en
[4647]WARD & PAUL
[4648]I tH
[4649]i tA
[4651]he
[4652]on
[4654]16
[4656]1?
[4658]18
[4660]19
[4662]20
[4664]21
[4666]22
[4668]410 First Steacl, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[4670]HY 50955 Docrd:
[4672]cover. .
[4673]0. . Okay. What activities was the larger group engaged |
[4674]in?
[4675]A. WE11, the larger group was engaged in the collection
[4677]SECKEE 64
[4679]Then as soon as they could, of course, they: would move ene
[4680]to the areas where they wanted to resettle them, where the
[4681]relatives were, this type of thing, and we had: nothing to do
[4683]with that whatsoever.
[4685]0, Turnina back to the AMOTS, and to the larger of the
[4687]two droups, what was the name of that group again?
[4689]A SASER, Latin American Social and Economic Research.
[4690]0. We can call them LASER for short?
[4691]A. Really, they are both -- the onlv reason we separated |
[4693]5
[4696]the two groups was for security because we had one group housed
[4697]over here and the smaller group was over here. Obviously we i
[4699]. . . !
[4700]couldn't bring these refugees into the larger establishment, so |
[4702]that is why we took the smaller establishment to preserve some
[4704]of intelligence. They compiled dossiers on the principals
[4706]inside Cuba. They carded -- they kept card files on every
[4708]refugee that came through the reception center. They provided -
[4710]they did do economic and social reporting. They put out a
[4712]monthly newsletter based on the information thev collected.
[4713]The information these people collected as opposed to the
[4714]information we collected, ther's was all unclassified. That
[4716]came from -- all the information thev had came from human sources
[4718]|
[4721]no
[4722]Photocopy from
[4724]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[4726]32275454 Page 66
[4728]°. aD ths Sas BRE B 65
[4730]ee _
[4732]5 | or overt publications. We subscribed -- well, the proprietary
[4735]g | subscribed to a number, a great many newspapers, periodicals,
[4736]a |
[4737]a 2 | ;
[4738]s | Spanish language type things.
[4739]z 5 |;
[4740]2 | 0. Well, they were doing clandestine collections as well,
[4741]i 4 |
[4742]i weren't they?
[4743]5 |
[4744]| A I don’t know if you could call it clandestine. What
[4745]6} . . :
[4746]# did you have in mind?
[4747]> | .
[4748]| 0. Well, would thev run agents in the community?
[4749]8 .
[4750]| A Well, ves, there were penetrations of the Cuban
[4751]3 |
[4752]t
[4753]i| community, yes.
[4754]10 | . ; ; . . ; |
[4755]| 0. And that is clandestine collection, isn't it?
[4756]ll.
[4757]i A. WEL1, I call that human resources.
[4758]z 12" 0. All right. Where are these files now? |
[4760]%,
[4761]- tS | A. They are in the Headquarters here. A great many of
[4762]Z aa .
[4763]3 14 them were really destroved. It got to be rather comic. We
[4764]i .
[4765]*° | went down there several years ago just looking through the files
[4766]16 | to see what kind of shape thev were in and they had such great |
[4767]tv information for intelligence value in there as a picture of a
[4768]He | gad who might be the daughter of a Cuban refugee who just won
[4769]I
[4770]2 19} 4 swimming meet. It got rather ridiculous. So we purged those
[4771]& | .
[4772]g 20 | files and took out that material, you know, which just didn't
[4773]: 21 | have any pertinancy at all.
[4774]2 Be | 0. How are the files organized? You indicated before tha
[4775]Z £5 lenere is a card, index card for each Cuban refugee?
[4776]3 24 | A, Right.
[4777]= £5 0, Are there. soft cover files as well?
[4779]SEC RET f Photocopy from
[4781]Gerald Ford Library
[4783]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 67
[4785]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4786]bt
[4788]WARD & PAUL
[4789]fa
[4790]to
[4792]1?
[4794]18
[4796]19
[4798]20.
[4800]21
[4802]416 first Sticel, $.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[4803]ay)
[4804]no
[4806]SECRET oe
[4808]A, Yes,
[4809]Q. For each Cuban refugee?
[4810]AL No. Not for each Cuban refugee. I think, as I
[4812]recall, those card files were up in the milli-ns and I forget,
[4813]we had I quess the manilla files, probably went into the tens.
[4814]of thousands, I would think.
[4816]0. Now, is there any wav to determine from those files
[4818]which of those exiles have hecome United States citizens?
[4820]A No way.
[4822]Q. Has there been anv effort to make such a determina-
[4825]A. We made an effort at one time but this ~~ you can
[4827]become nationalized out in California and your record of
[4828]nationalization wouldn't be reflected here in Washington for
[4829]two years. That is how far thev are behind.
[4831]0. So I take it -~
[4833]A, So there is no central index vou can go to. I mean,
[4835]there is a central index you can go to but it.is.not current.
[4837]0. I take it, then, that there is a possibility that the
[4839]CIA has some files in Miami or here in Langley on Cubans who
[4840]are now American citizens?
[4842]A. Absolutely true.
[4844]0. Now, are any of those files likely to contain
[4845]derogatory information about the individuals. involved?
[4847]A, Well, no. One of the things these people do, of
[4849]SECRET
[4851]Photocopy from
[4852]Gerald Ford Library }
[4854]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 68
[4857]fA
[4859]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4860]nD
[4862]WARD & PAUL
[4864](nN
[4866]S-E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4868]PP
[4870]23
[4872]24
[4874]410 Finest Steel,
[4876]25
[4878]HY 50955 Docrd:
[4880]Lu . ~ ] .
[4881]SECRET 67
[4882]course, we had targets for recruitment. It could range from
[4884]anything from a first mate, a captain or chief engineer of a
[4886]Cuban maritime vessel to Fidel. When we targeted these people
[4888]as possible recruitments, for possible recruitment,we would ask
[4890]that all the information on that individual be assembled so that
[4892]we could do a complete target study -- habits, vou know, i
[4893]everything right down the line. In case of some of the more
[4894]important ones, of course, we had nsvchological studies prepared
[4895]where we had enough information. But this is one of the things |
[4896]these people did. If we said we want everything vou have on the
[4897]first mate of the == one of the Cuban ships, then they would
[4898]start looking through the papers or anything else to come up
[4899]with anything they could on what the guy's current activities
[4900]are, his background, his life habits, this tvpe of thing.
[4902]Q Well, the .AAMOTS were going to be the intelligence
[4903]service of Cuba?
[4905]A. Right.
[4907]0 And they obviousiv were going to perform some function
[4908]in addition to recruitment of agents?
[4910]A. Right.
[4912]0. I take it thev were trained in counterintelligence,
[4913]gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all of the
[4914]traditional skills, is that correct? i
[4916]A. - That is about right. |
[4918]0 So I trust that they had files that were amassed for
[4920]SECRET Photocopy from -
[4922]Gerald Ford Library
[4924]32275454 Page 69
[4926]| + SEGRE! ou
[4927]|
[4929]purposes other than recruitment?
[4931]3 1
[4932]|
[4933]g 9 A. Well ~-
[4934]ct
[4935]E 3 | Q. For example, let me ask you this. Were any of these
[4936]E 4 || files on Cubans who were suspected or thought to be a possible
[4937]Jj
[4938]|
[4939]5 | internal security problem?
[4940]6 | A. No. No. Thev didn't keep those types of files. We
[4942]7 | would simply task them with through your sources what do you
[4943]8 | have on so and so. Thev would not be told the reason why we
[4944]9 wanted the information on anvbodv.
[4946]0. Well, I quess with several million fiels or several
[4948]| | | |
[4949]SECRET  ceraid Ford Library |
[4951]i
[4952]10 |
[4953]11 million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
[4954]12 | make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
[4955]a a
[4957]2 13 | those files?
[4958]2 A Well, that is right. |
[4959]3 14 | -
[4960]15 | 0 So I guess I won't ask you to do so, but I want to ask
[4961]z ;
[4962]| .
[4963]16 | vou this. I trust that there is the possibility that some of |,
[4964]19 7 \
[4965]i
[4966]19 these files do contain what vou in the trade refer to as deroga4
[4967]| tory information? |
[4968]1a || “Or”
[4969]A. I would assume so.
[4970]o 19 |
[4971]2 :
[4972]8 20 | 0. And that so much of them may -- some of the subjects
[4973]2
[4974]: 21 | of those files may now be American citizens?
[4975]3 A Right.
[4976]5 93 Qa And finally I take it that no effort has been made to
[4977]5 2A studv that particular situation?
[4978]3 4
[4979]3 95 | A. WELL, we did make an effort to do it at one time. i
[4980]7 | . , |
[4982]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 70
[4984]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[4986]WARD. & PAUL
[4988]16 j
[4990]17
[4992]18
[4994]24
[4996]410 First Sircel, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[4998]25
[5000]HY 50955 Docrd:
[5002]Q
[5003]0
[5005]0.
[5007]A,
[5009]0.
[5013]SECRET 69
[5015]You know, we have a traveler program where when Cubans travel,
[5016]whether they are on an island or perhaps other places, their
[5017]names turn up on manrfests and this type of thing. Well, these
[5018]are put into a machine system. What we did when these cards
[5020]| were all transferred back here in Miami, we did go through them
[5021]H
[5023]at random and pick out cards and then try to match it up with
[5024]what the machine svstem had to see if there was updated informa-
[5025]tion in the machine system that would show that this guy had
[5027]become a naturalized citizen, and it didn't work out. So --:
[5029]Excuse me, off the record.
[5031](Off the record discussion)
[5032]MR. MANFREDI: Back on the record.
[5034]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5036]Twant to straighten out confusion in my own mind
[5038]where these files presently reside. The cards I take it are
[5040]presently here in Washington?
[5042]The cards and what is left of the files.
[5043]That is the soft cover files?
[5045]Yes.
[5049]I assume they are either here or down at the
[5051]| Records Center.
[5053]32275454
[5055]0.
[5056]A.
[5058]0.
[5060]|
[5061]|
[5062]|
[5063]| A,
[5064]|
[5065]|
[5066]|
[5068]And where is the computer svstem?
[5069]You mean our machine system? We have --
[5070]The machine here that you tried to match up with the
[5071]SEC RET Photocopy from
[5072]Gerald Ford Library
[5074]Page 7i
[5076]|
[5078]“~ aoe ee RE fl 7
[5080]7
[5081]é 1 | information on the cards?
[5082]Bd i
[5083]= i
[5084]= D) | A. Right down on the third floor,
[5085]: 3 0. That is not the hvdro svstem?
[5086]2 4 A. Oh, no, no. |
[5087]i
[5088]Ht . . 7 |
[5089]5 i 0 This is a separate --
[5090]| |
[5091]6 A This is a complete -- only the Latin American Division
[5092]5 | uses this particular system. i
[5093]8 0, What kind of records -- cetrike that.
[5094]9 | The AMOTS are still in existence, aren't thev? |
[5095]| |
[5096]10 | A No.
[5097]11 n T thought they were going out in June. |
[5098]12 A Well, okav. Thev are on the hooks until June.
[5099]3 | |
[5100]3 0 I see.
[5101]2 13 | ° See !
[5102]< 14 A, But they have all been let go. They were let go =~ |
[5104]_ | they were all given six months termination bonuses and told to “
[5105]o find a joh.
[5106]i6 | 9 3
[5107]7 ‘a ‘Do they have any facilities, phvsical facilities, in
[5108]f 1
[5109]Miami at this time?
[5110]18
[5111]| A, no.
[5112]- 19 7
[5113]4 {
[5114]5 20 | 0. So thére are no records in Miami?
[5115]O a
[5116]G
[5117]§ 2 A. No. No. We brouqht all those records back here.
[5118]2 20 | 0. Did the AMOTS have law enforcement responsibilities
[5119]= BBY
[5120]4 23 | in the Miami community?
[5121]8 i ;
[5122]& A No. No,
[5123]z Ray
[5124]3 25 | 0 Anv affiliation with law enforcement groups?
[5125]t v
[5126]|
[5127]i}
[5129]| Phot f
[5130]| SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[5132]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 72
[5134]pose SE.KE! ra
[5136]3 1 ! A Hot to my knowledge,
[5138]¢ i
[5140]3 2 o What else did they do, this larger group of AMOTS that
[5141]a | t
[5142]Hl 3 was not doing debriefings?
[5143]3 ! A Well, when they were trained in trade craft we would
[5145]; . aye ; |
[5146]send them to other countries, in Europe and within the Hemisphere
[5147]. to train some of the local services in those countries. They
[5149]served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in |
[5153]'
[5154]|
[5157]|
[5158]listening posts where we had audio ~- |
[5159]1
[5160]i
[5161]|
[5162]|
[5163]|
[5164]1
[5166]0, Foreign listening posts?
[5167]10 | A. Oh, ves, foreign.
[5168]u| 0. Any domestic listening posts?
[5169]| 12| A No, no. |
[5170]a! 0 Anv domestic surveillances conducted by these people? |
[5171]” A. I would assume -- this I cannot answer because I reall
[5172]15 don't know. I know that they did a great number of things but -
[5173]16 : to mv knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance
[5174]1 conducted by them. |
[5175]se “Now, if it was conducted, and if it is a matter of record,
[5176]. it don't know where it could be. ,
[5177]é 20 | 0. What intelligence gathering activities did they
[5178]: 21 | conduct in the Cuban community in Miami?
[5179]= - 4h . .
[5180]i 20 | A One.of the big problems we had was within that Cuban
[5181]4 og | community, as I said earlier, were some of the militant anti-
[5182]i og | Castro groups and this just: drove the FBI and the Coast Guard
[5183]: 26 | and Customs and in general the law enforcement US. Government
[5184]7 i
[5185]SECRET = crarrontuinny
[5187]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 73
[5189]ad Fae EE “4
[5191]3 i agencies in Miami plus the State government enforcement agencie
[5192]- : up the wall and, of course, I guess it was around ~- the
[5193]g = | Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
[5194]E 4 | about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they
[5195]5 ; started to tighten up.
[5196]6 I am sure the AMOTS were in part responsible for proposing
[5197]" alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcement agencies when
[5198]8 there was going to he a raid against Cuba by one of these
[5199]9 . militant groups. A number of times raids were aborted, picked
[5200]ro by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureau, |
[5201]- this type of thing. |
[5202]4 0. These people were arrested? |
[5203]3 “e
[5204]7 la A Oh, ves,
[5205]2 |
[5206]& : 0. Prosecuted?
[5207]2 14
[5208]_ A. Not really,
[5209]7 0 Anv of them American citizens?
[5210]4
[5211]A Not to my knowledge. |
[5212]: 0. This would be Alpha 66 tvpe groups?
[5213]8
[5214]. 19 A I don't know whether this quy -~ well, you know, they
[5215]8 . are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don'
[5216]oO ce, :
[5217]: 2} : know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on
[5218]g 1
[5219]E 29 i so many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here.
[5220]‘ 95 | He was a boat manufacturer, small boats, but whether he ever
[5221]: 2A ; served any time or not I don't know. . I know he was convicted
[5222]: 95 but he was always walking around Miami when I was there. So
[5223]|
[5224]|
[5226]| 7 Photocop from
[5227]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5229]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 74
[5234]3 1 I truthfully don't know whether any of these people ever went
[5235]$ 1
[5236]= 2 « to jaul or not.
[5237]8 i ,
[5238]a I . . ‘ . : . .
[5239]g 5 a Other than identifying operations by militant anti-
[5240]= if
[5241]E 4 . Castro groups, what other intelligence gathering did the AMOTS
[5242]5 - engage in?
[5243]6. A Well, of course, there was a counterintelligence ~--
[5244]9 I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence. interest
[5245]g . at that time because we knew that they were infiltrating agents.
[5246]9 : Q Cubans were? |
[5247]i
[5248]io? A. The Cuban Government. They couldn't do it very well |
[5249]i
[5250]11 : on the airlift because, as I said before, the aged, infirm, and
[5251]12 young, but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don't
[5252]4 ;
[5253]2
[5254]a ii well, we had knowledge that this was on and we did try to i
[5256]5 ;
[5257]& 14 identify those people whom we thought would be suspect.
[5258]3 4
[5259]15 t 0 Was that done in cooperation with the. Bureau? ~
[5260]‘ A. With the Bureau, ves.
[5261]16 |
[5262]a , 0. Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
[5263]ae * in a better position to do it?
[5264]: A Yes, and language-wise, too. That is always a big
[5265]” 19
[5266]3 factor.
[5267]v .
[5268]: Q. And this was conducted through the AMOTS?
[5269]2
[5270]3
[5271]5 Hi A  ° Yes.
[5273]u " Q How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
[5274]= : in’ the community?
[5275]2 24 .
[5276]5 | A WEl1, it wasn't that big. They identified not what I
[5279]r
[5281]| | Ph f .
[5282]§ E ¢C R ET | Gersid ro rd Library
[5284]25 |
[5286]|
[5288]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 75
[5290]g |
[5292]a 2 |
[5293]3 |
[5294]g 3
[5295]|
[5296]oO Hl
[5298]|
[5299]i
[5300]7 F
[5301]|
[5302]8
[5303]H
[5304]10 |
[5305]ll].
[5306]|
[5307]12
[5308]3
[5309]z |
[5310]8 133
[5311]2 |
[5312]5 14]
[5313]_ |
[5314]45 |,
[5315]16
[5316]i
[5317]an ||
[5318]_
[5319]18 |
[5321]- 19 |
[5322]3 |
[5323]. 20 |
[5324]c
[5325]2 21 |
[5326]3 22 |
[5328]< 23 |
[5329]é |
[5330]2 24
[5331]3
[5332]3 25
[5334]| Bureau, of course, we have no idea what the hell ever happens
[5336]sy DEVKEL | |
[5338]would call a great. number of suspect infiltrees, but thev did
[5340]come up with a few promising ones and ones it turned over to the
[5342]to it because, von know, vou just -- unless vou personally know
[5343]|
[5345]the guy in the Bureau that is handling the case, you might as
[5347]well forget it. You have got too many other things to do.
[5350]i
[5353]0. What other positive intelligence gathering activities |
[5355]were they engaging in?
[5357]A, Well, as I told vou, one part of them were engaged in |
[5359]electronic intercept.
[5361]|
[5363]|
[5364]0. Where was that done? |
[5365]A Down in Florda, down in Homestead. |
[5366]0. This is Southeast of Homestead? |
[5367]A. Yes. |
[5368]0. What ere they intercepting? 7
[5369]A Well, originally they were set up to assist with the
[5371]commo. for the infiltration.
[5373]“As we phased down the maritime activities, they were made
[5374]available to intercept Cuban Communications, NSA‘ tasks’ them wit
[5375]the frequencies they wanted covered and the Cuban Communications
[5376]nets: they wanted covered, such as tthe border guards. Another
[5377]important one was the sugar network. We had the border guards,
[5378]sugar, transportation, maritime. I think there was an interior
[5380]network they covered too. But all electronic intercept coverage}.
[5382]is. dictated by NSA.
[5383]Photocopy from
[5385]SEC RET ‘Gerald Ford Library
[5387]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 76
[5389]Ho" | SELKE!
[5391]|
[5393]|
[5395]f
[5396]Now, since they belong to us we could levy ceratin reeves
[5397]ments on them if we wanted to, which we did very infrequently |
[5400]because the common interests, -- we have a common interest in
[5402]Phone (Ares 262) 544-6060
[5404]what NSA has an interest in and unless there were one particulan
[5407]operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly what the Cubans
[5408]were doing, then we would task our people with that.
[5410]For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arms into
[5411]i
[5413]. t
[5414]Africa and our operators saw the thing leave Havana and then
[5416]there was absolute silence. So nobodv knew where the thing was.
[5417]But we knew arms were being loaded and we finally located the
[5418]H
[5420]boat in an African port, I mean the intercept operators did, when
[5422]came. back on-the-air. And this is the type of thing. As.
[5424]a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers. And 200
[5426]WARD & PAUL
[5428]Cuban: troops, 7 |
[5430]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. -.
[5432](Off the record discussion)
[5433]MR. MANFREDI: Let's ao back on the record,
[5435]i “BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5436]i :
[5438]0, Were the Communications: they: were intercepting
[5440]exclusively foreign communications?
[5442]20 j
[5444]A Exclusively foreign communications.
[5445]21
[5447]0. Were they intercepting any communications, one terminus
[5448]22 :
[5450]of which was the United States?
[5451]A, No.
[5453]0. These were basically Cuban Government ‘communicat3 >
[5456]SEC RET oy Photocopy from
[5458]Gerald Ford Library
[5460]"410 Fiest Street, SEL, Washington, D.C. 20003
[5462]|
[5464]an
[5465]25 | |
[5466]| |
[5468]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page ?7
[5470]Pouone (Area 202) 644-6000
[5473]WARD & PAUL
[5475]Los)
[5477]22
[5479]23
[5481]410 First Street, $.£., Washington, O.C. 20003
[5483]25
[5485]24
[5487]0
[5489]A
[5491]po) ATE oe | 76
[5492]Right.
[5494]On the Island?
[5496]Right.
[5497]Or between the Island and other locations?
[5498]Yes.
[5500]But not between the Island. and the United States?
[5502]j
[5504]|
[5505]No. Let's go off the record on that. . |
[5507](Off the record discussion)
[5509]0,
[5511]BY MR. MANFREDI: |
[5512]i
[5513]|
[5515]intercept
[5517]where,
[5519]A.
[5521]0.
[5523]0.
[5525]in
[5527]To vour knowledge were the :AMOT. engaging in the
[5529]a
[5531]of any communications, either that facility or else-
[5533]the Miami area or in the southern part of the country?
[5534]No.
[5535]Of other communications?
[5537]No.
[5539]Is that their only imtercept facility?
[5541](Nods affirmative)
[5543]Do you know of your own personal knowledge -=- strike
[5545]that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps, surveillances,
[5547]i
[5549]breakins or activities of thqt type other than what we have
[5551]discussed --
[5555]a
[5557]No sir.
[5559]== that were conducted bv the AMOTS?
[5561]Pd
[5563](Off the record discussion}
[5565]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454
[5567]No sir. I want to qo off the record a minute,
[5569]Photocopy from
[5571]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[5573]Page 78
[5575]pes
[5577](e]
[5579]Phane {Area 202) 544-6000
[5581]an
[5583]& PAUL
[5585]WARG
[5586]Ww
[5589]fe
[5590]“i
[5592]19
[5594]200023
[5596]20
[5598]al
[5600]22
[5602]S.E., Washington, 9.C.
[5604]410 First Strcet,
[5606]25
[5608]24 |
[5610]1
[5611]|
[5613]i
[5616]SECRET 7
[5618]BY MR. MANFREDI:
[5620]0. I understand that a study of the history of the AMOTS
[5622]has been prepared by one of your members.
[5624]A That is right.
[5625]0. What is his name?
[5626]A I think it is Joaquin -- I can't remember the last
[5628]name. The poor guy is dead now anvway. Well, I will just have
[5630]to get that for you.
[5632]0. What is the title of the study? |
[5633]|
[5635]i
[5637]series of the Miami Station and I think it is just entitled "The
[5639]A The title of the study -- it is part of the historical
[5641]AMOT Organization."
[5643]0 What is the historical series of the Miami Station?
[5645]A “It was done when: Paul Hennessey was down there. What
[5646]we try to do as we go along, from vear to vear, is set aside
[5647]what is considered to be some of the more siginificant things
[5649]the station might do or that might occur in the station personne
[5651]wise, this tvpe of thing, and.then these things are written.
[5653]Se
[5655]0 I see.
[5657]A. At intervening periods of time.
[5659]0. When was this particular report prepared, the AMOTS?
[5661]A think it was preAared in 1967 or ‘68.
[5663]a It is a fairly lengthy document, isn't it?
[5665]A, Yes.
[5667]0 And purports to be a fairly complete history of the
[5668]|
[5670]SECRET : Photocopy from
[5672]Gerald Ford Library
[5674]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 79
[5676]SECKET is
[5678]i
[5679]i
[5680]3 L | activities of the AMOTS?
[5681]= |
[5682]= 2 A It starts back in 1959 when we first started using
[5683]oS
[5684]3 3 | this gent..
[5685]2 4 0. First started using what?
[5686]5 I A. First started using, I forget what his name was.
[5687]6 | ies I see. Is it a chronological study of their activi-
[5688]|
[5689]9 ties?
[5690]3 | A Yes,
[5691]H .
[5692]|
[5693]9 0. And you have a copy of that in your custody?
[5694]A Yes.
[5695]10
[5696]11 0. I would like to see that’ document. And we will try
[5697]. and obtain it through MNank Knoche's office.
[5698]5 78 |
[5700]: 13 | A. Okay. !
[5701]2 H . ;
[5702]g 14 | 0. Excuse me just for a minute.
[5703]|
[5704]15 \ (Off the record. discussion)
[5705]-s i . }
[5706]16 | MR. MANFREDI: On the record. i
[5707]7 BY MR. MANFREDI: I wonder if vou would ~= let me ask vou |
[5708]1a | this. There have been some allegations in the press that
[5709]19 prominent newsmen in he Miami area have in the past been agents
[5710]3 of the CIA.
[5711]3 20
[5712]: Mr. Olsen just came into the office and I asked him to join
[5713]= el | :
[5715]5 2 [ because some of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the
[5716]FS 2
[5717]4 Agency in the Miami area touch peripherally on some of the thing
[5719]é had has been charged with investigating, so I am going to turn
[5720]a 24
[5721]3 the examination over to him for whatever time he needs,
[5722]= 25
[5723]|
[5726]SEC RET ‘Gerald Ford Library
[5728]HY 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 80
[5730]a
[5732]ad en es BS Es
[5734]MR. OLSEN: Thank vou, “ceorge.
[5736]|
[5737]3 BY MR, OLSEN: |
[5738]“ zt 0 Can vou begin, since I have not been in on the begin- |
[5739]2 H
[5740]Z S 3 . ;
[5741]E ‘ning of the interview here, can vou start off, Mr. Sturbitts,
[5742]= 4 . |
[5743]by giving me about a one or two minute resume of what your
[5744]5 |
[5745]contacts were with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
[5746]withing this country on bhehal= of the Agency?
[5747]7 .
[5748]A. Well, I was a member of the Special Activities Staff |
[5749]8 |
[5750]‘which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and the
[5751]Miami Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in |
[5752]1 . ; H
[5753]a variety of intelligence collection and operations.
[5754]~~ 9, Who was the head of the Special Activities Staff?
[5755]12 |
[5756]3 A Mesmond Fitzgerald.
[5757]y 13 .
[5758]3 Qa And who was his immediate superior? i
[5759]< sat i
[5760]° _ ‘Dick Bissell. Excuse me. No. At that time it was |
[5761]““ Dick Helms. He was the DEP.
[5762]16 , -
[5763]Q Neputyv Director for Plans?
[5764]_ A Deptuty Nirector for Plans. i
[5765]. . i
[5766]a 0. What period of time are we talking about now? _
[5767]- 19 . . a
[5768]3 A. We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965.
[5769]Z 20. MR, MANFREDI: Off the record.
[5770]: 21: .
[5771]= 2 (Off the record discussion)
[5772]3 22% : EN:
[5773], ; BY MR. OLSEN:
[5774]4 i ;
[5775]6 RS Q So vou were not involved in this Special Activities
[5777]ATQ barst Street, &
[5779]A NO.
[5780]Photocopy from
[5782]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[5784]|
[5785]ee |
[5786]24 ! Group during the 1959 to "SL period? |
[5787]|
[5789]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 61
[5791]~— om ou mu
[5793]a 1 Or the period leading up sco the Bav of Pigs?
[5795]= a, No. l
[5796]a |
[5797]§ a |
[5798]° i 0 And vou were not involved in this program at all during
[5799]2 ithe same time that ©. Howard Hunt was involved in it? H
[5800]. t
[5801]4:
[5802]A No.
[5803]5
[5804]Q, Do vou know what the vcosition was Mr. Hunt occupied in:
[5805]a :
[5806]connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the
[5807]9 .
[5808]: period of 1359 to 'S1?
[5809]Ay To my recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert
[5811]Action Start dealing in propaqanda.
[5813]0. Was this propaganda Girected to the Cuban people in
[5814]VW j
[5815]pane . i
[5816]this country?
[5817]Le
[5818]3 ~ A No. Cuban people abroad.
[5819]2 1z a _
[5820]2 Q And what-was his connection with the planning for the
[5822]3 its i. :
[5823]Bay of Pigs? :
[5824]_ A I would have to review the record to really answer :
[5825]1é |
[5826]that. I don't know.
[5827]ut . _ _
[5828]0. Didn't he spend an awful lot of time in the Miami
[5829]~““ area?
[5830]1s Se - |
[5831]A He commuted cuite a bit.
[5832]i‘ 20, . a . :
[5833]= 0. Between Washington and -=
[5834]z 2] i : :
[5835]Ey * , A Washington and Miami.
[5836]= 22 | 0 ~- and Miami. During the period of 1969 and early
[5837]. i
[5838]: Da
[5839]3 “ '§1?
[5840]3 .
[5841]z 244 . :
[5842]5 “ \ Right.
[5843]3 25 4 ; oo ; . ;
[5844]“oa i. Mr. Hunt bas stated in his interviews and in his
[5846]| SEC RET Photocopy from
[5847]Gerald Ford Library
[5851]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 62
[5853]cape tp Ni th Hie
[5855]published materials that he was the person who was in charge of
[5857]g
[5858]¢ 1
[5859]2 ~
[5860]= 9 | organizing a political unit among’ Cubans in this country which
[5862]ot Hf
[5863]3 4 : . . . : :
[5864]é = } would constitute the Cuban government in exile. Do you recall
[5865]z 4
[5866]z 4 where that was?
[5867]5 : AL That could be quite true.
[5868]6 a Nave vou reviewed, “Mr. Sturbitts, the Agency's entire
[5869]% files relating in anv wav so the Cuban operations and particu-
[5870]8 ‘ larly with reference to whether they reflect anv contacts
[5871]3 between the Aqency and Frank Sturgis?
[5872]a A Ces. .
[5873]as! ie Or Frank Fiorini?
[5874]ao: A There is no relationship.
[5875]: 1: 0, Is it vour testimony that the records and files of
[5876]; |
[5877]Z -. the Aqencyv reveal no official or unofficial contact of any
[5878]3 i
[5879],- . Mature with Frank Sturgis?
[5880]VA A To my knowledge chat is true.
[5881]_ 0 I take it from that that vou are emphatic in your
[5882]a testimony that he was never an emplovee of the Agency?
[5883]. A. Extremely emphatic.
[5884]“ 19 .
[5885]2 ; Q, And vou are also equally emphatic to the effect that
[5886]3 20 4 ‘
[5887]z 21 he was never a contract agent of the Agency?
[5888]5 | AL Exactly,
[5889]2 22°
[5890]“ : ®% ° Do vou know whether he ever served in the capacity
[5891]pO
[5892]a a4 i OF being an informer or informant to the Agency?
[5893]z * i
[5894]3 25 A It is possible that he could have been a source.
[5895]t 5
[5897]SEC RET 4 Photocopy from
[5899]Gerald Ford Library
[5901]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 83
[5903]ae iy GH 2. Re B
[5905]2 m al YOu mean a source of -~
[5906]3 1
[5907]= 2 jj A, Source of information of another aqent. Another
[5908]: |
[5909]3
[5910]z 3 | agency agent.
[5911]2 if .
[5912]2 | a. No the files of the Agency reflect anv matter?
[5913]x A To my knowledce I don't recall anvthing like that but
[5914]wv . . .
[5915]a is entirely possible that shat could have happened without
[5916]9 i being a matter of record.
[5917]it
[5919]at . a _ «
[5920]8 : 0 Do the files of the Agency reveal any instance what-
[5921]4 ;
[5922]9 | ever in which Frank Sturgis was ever asked to undertake anv
[5923]Vs j} kind of an operation or activity on behalf of the Agency?
[5924]au;
[5925]‘ 3 fo my knowledge. nothing.
[5926]yell 9, Do the files of the Agencv reveal anv evidence
[5927]: am 4 : .
[5929]t 12 | whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or
[5930]2 _ indirectly bv the Aqencv?
[5931]2 Le .
[5932]a aa To mv knowledge, no.
[5933]_ 3 Now, when vou sav “to mv knowledge, no", in answer
[5934]_ to some of these questions, do I understand that to mean that
[5935]you are giving us the full benefit of vour knowledge on the
[5937]basis of a full review of the Agencv's records and files?
[5938]3 19
[5939]i) .
[5940]3 A On Prank Sturgis, ves.
[5941]g 20 4
[5942].
[5943]i Q Okav. Puring the period of time that vou were with
[5944]21.
[5945]‘| the Special Activities Group from 1963 to '66, first of all,
[5946]22 | ~
[5947]“ ’ can vou tell us when that beaan in 1963?
[5948]is 23:
[5949]3 ‘ . Coe.
[5950]5 . A. When the Special Activities Group --
[5951]3 245
[5952]S 4 a No. When vour contact with the Special Activities
[5954]7 ae ‘|
[5956]: h from
[5957]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[5959]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page #4
[5961]we Be “GE BG Hes B
[5963]3 . Group began?
[5964]2% A It began -= well, it began around June of '63.
[5966]0. Now, with particuiar reference to the last half of
[5968]a
[5970]Phone (Area 202) b44-n000
[5972]1963, including whatever veriod in June '63 mav not have been
[5976]involved, were there a qreat manv Cubans in the southern United
[5978]4 = States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being
[5979]7 | sponsored by the Aqency?
[5980]8 i AL Wellm vou mean Acency sponsored fronts?
[5981]0 Yes.
[5982]| A The Agencv subsicized these fronts in an effort to
[5984]have unity rather than these split factions, split anti~Castro
[5986]1
[5987]oI
[5988]; ip |, factions. Obviously the Leaders-of the fronts knew that the
[5989]13 | CIB was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
[5990]: _., fronts did not know thev were being subsidized by the Agencv
[5991]for she U.S. Government.
[5992]a! 0. But when vou sav “supposedly," does the fact appear
[5993]~ 4 to be otherwise?
[5994]5. 3. WEL1, based on mv axperience with the Cubans and this
[5995]ug | type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
[5996]: ao | it wouldA't take long for nowledde of any subsidy to surface
[5997]: a1 | itselé.
[5998]= FI
[5999]3 29 | a Was it your opinion and impression at that time, Mr.
[6000]4 ,. | Sturbitts, that a qreat many Cubans considered themselves to be
[6001]3 we
[6002]Es 24 : involved in the CIA orqanizations?
[6003]3 4;
[6004]E A, Yes. " photocopy from
[6006]Gerald Ford Library
[6008]to
[6009]on .
[6011]SECRET
[6013]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 65
[6016]4 i? : oe . : .
[6018]8 te Q And again with particular reference to the Miami
[6020]g i , .
[6022]3 4
[6024]Ps 2 4 area?
[6026]a i
[6028]: 5 i A. Yes.
[6030]2 ai “0. Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere
[6032]in the United States? I am asking now particularly with
[6034]con)
[6036]reference to New Orleans.
[6038]Les)
[6040]are A There was some Cuban presence in New Orleans. I am
[6042]; veally not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was
[6044]Si
[6045]i
[6046]3 4 Sort of a sideshow to ‘Miami,
[6047]an
[6048]-. 1! o But the same is -= it is possible that some of the
[6049]~ ti .
[6050]tt . . ee 7 ‘ -
[6051]-- # Same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded
[6052]~— if
[6053]i
[6054]-o it Dv the Agency also had activities or operations in New Orleans?
[6055]: am i
[6056]3 u .
[6057]< ‘ lo we =
[6058]= -. A I don't know if = can answer that, whether they had
[6059]3 wu il
[6060]< _ the same functions. = know that some funding arrangement for
[6061]z ~= . :
[6062]ed Subsidizing the orcanizations in Miami was carried out through
[6063].. ; New Orleans.
[6064]and Q Well, can vou he nore specific about what vou mean
[6065]_ |
[6066]_. by that?
[6067]_ A Well, in other words, to fund these organizations we
[6069]3 _ | were subsidizing there had to be some ostensible source of
[6070]y a0 4
[6071]- + income for them to continue what they were doing. A great
[6072]3 Or : :
[6073]- ae a
[6074]2 i number -= well, not a great number, but a number of select
[6075]2 22 4 : ~
[6076]¥ _. | people were -- well, tnev were selected and then they were
[6077]“ ae
[6078]3 a talked to, to pose as trustees, if vou would, or directors or
[6079]r ae t
[6080]5 _whatever vou might have of some of these Organizations in order
[6081]7 2& .
[6085]5E CRET Photocopy from
[6087]Gerald Ford Library
[6089]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 86
[6092]Se
[6094]g - . to get the funding through to the organizations.
[6095]= 5 These people were normaily prominent people and -~
[6096]a ;
[6097]3 a a And did thev get funded by the Agency, then, through |
[6098]z ae
[6099]z 2 the mdeium of prominent and well-to-do neople?
[6100]= A. These well-to-ro people ostensibly would call a friendi
[6101]s of theirs that had heen made trustee of another type of activity,
[6102]> and sav, vou know, we are trving to assist these Cubans in this
[6103]= type of thing. Could vour organization give us any monev, and
[6104]5 the guy. on the other and would say, sure, we can probably lend
[6105]te you $25,900 or something iike that, or donate $25,990. This is:
[6106]_ the wav the funding went into the fronts.
[6107]— A. And was some of that funding arranged through veonle
[6109]5
[6110]= . in New Orleans?
[6111]ed an
[6112]& . A. Twouid think so. I believe so,
[6113]_ a Were anv of «he veople in New Orleans through whom
[6114]oa)
[6115]1
[6116]_ that funding operation vas effected people who turned out to be
[6117]_, involved in the investigations conducted by Jim Garrison? :
[6118]_ oR Mot to my hnowledde.
[6119]- a How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected with
[6120]3 19 |
[6121]é the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance}
[6122]3 20 i
[6123]= . 1
[6124]- to Cubans or Cuban crouns? i
[6125]3 27 . :
[6127]3 a I couidn't sav. = am just not familiar with -~- we had!
[6128]2 Ze”
[6129]ul a great manv people that did this.
[6130]y on
[6131]= au . t
[6132]3 H
[6133]FA a. How about Clav Shaw? Was Clav Shaw ever used as a
[6134]3 £4 |
[6135]5 . funding source? /
[6136]2 ae
[6137]Sed ZO . H
[6138]Photocopy from
[6140]SECRET ’ Gerald Ford Library |
[6144]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 67
[6146]ae Ge tat BY Bes d
[6150]: 7 “A, This I do not know either.
[6152]g 2 9, Pardon?
[6153]i 5 A This I don't know.
[6154]: a BY MR. MANFREDI:
[6155]5 0. Where would chat information be available?
[6156]& A Well, we have a cur that used to work with me who was
[6157]9 down in New Orleans at that time. He would probably know.
[6158]8 9. Is he in the hbuildina? .
[6159]5 h, Yes.
[6160]ic nN What is his name?
[6161]i: A Bill Kent.
[6162]. 1s 0. Bill Kent!
[6163]; i A. Yes.
[6164]: te BY MR. OLSEN:
[6165]_ a. Who is BiDEi Xen: with now? Which department?
[6166]a A, He is still with the Dpo.
[6167]ap BY: MR, MANFREDI:
[6168]_ o Western Hemisphere Division?
[6169]<6 AY Mo. He is on one of the staffs. He is on the -- I
[6170]me think Career Management Group Staff.
[6171]2
[6172]>: Oo, - Ts he officed near vou?
[6173]: 29 a No. He iS cown in the basement.
[6174]Z 9: BY MR. OLSEN:
[6176]De the Agency files reveal who the intermediaries were
[6181]BLO Batt Se
[6183]that were used to vroevide funds to the --
[6185]SECRET Photocopy from
[6187]- Gerald Ford Library
[6189]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 68
[6191]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[6194]Or ~? Oo.
[6196]Oo)
[6198]4
[6199]to
[6201]WAKHD & PAUL
[6202]'
[6203]Cr
[6205]i
[6208]H
[6209]72
[6212]Qu
[6214]ie]
[6216]feed
[6218]2G s
[6220]a
[6222]to
[6224]ay)
[6227]- Wastoigtee, 0 €.
[6229]a a
[6231]S
[6232]Lay)
[6233]ian
[6235]tried,
[6237]aD
[6238]se
[6240]hae aged
[6242]no
[6245]HY 50955 Docld
[6247]at lee ot OM ie
[6249]Ae Oh, ves.
[6250]0, “~~ to the Cuban movements?
[6251]a. Yes. ;
[6252]|
[6253]. i
[6254]0 No vou Know whehter -- do vou know the identity of anv
[6256]of them in New Orleans?
[6258]cant
[6260]No. No. Totally unfamiliar with anything that took .
[6262]llace in New Orleans.
[6265]1
[6267]2. I take it that Frank Sturgis was never an intermediary
[6270]for providing funds =o the Cuban fronts?
[6272]a The files that Ihave don't reflect it.
[6273]0 i think we covered this already just a few minutes agq
[6274]. ; . |
[6275]but let me make sure that we have got it on the record. !
[6276]: i
[6277]t
[6279]I understood vou to sav that it was vour impression in 1963
[6281]that large numbers of Cuban exiles, Cuban peonie in the southern
[6282]. i
[6284]United States, calked ahout and believed that thev were involved
[6286]in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true? i
[6288]A. That is right.
[6290]“0, Was 12 also vour understanding and vour impression
[6292]that there was a good deal of talk among this Cuban element in
[6293]the southern United States about plans or vrospects for the
[6294]assassination of Fidel Castro?
[6296]A I would sav no. f= don't think there was -- you have
[6298]got to remember that these people were embittered. They lost
[6301]their homeland, their wossessions, they lost everything and they}
[6302]. ;
[6304]blamed it all on one man. 1
[6306]Photocopy from
[6308]| SECRET "Gerald Ford Library
[6310]132275454 Page 69
[6312]Qu) bad-BO00
[6314]Pavone (4Mteu
[6316]WATT & PAUL
[6318]bel
[6320]Lebbatdly f
[6322]Vitel icani
[6324]HW 50955
[6326]CH
[6328]Cs
[6330]ne
[6332]Docid:
[6334]a Ke Wen TE
[6335]: 0 That is Fiedl Castre?
[6336]: A That is right, and they would probably verbally do
[6338]anything they could to qet rid of him.
[6340]0. Was there a iot of talk about killing Castro among
[6342]these Cubans?
[6344]A, I would say amona the Cuban exiles there probably was
[6345]a lot of talk about that.
[6346]0. Did vou participate vourself in the overhearing of
[6347]' such conversations?
[6348]: A Ho.
[6350]0. Was this a matter of something that was reported to
[6351]you?
[6352]: A. . Weil, it was -= I really don't remember what the
[6354]source of it was but I know in my discussions with people at the
[6355]Station and from mv visits down there and that type of thing
[6356]that this subject alwavs came up. ‘what were they going to do
[6357]with Fidel? How are thev going to get rid of him and this type
[6359]t
[6361]of thing. I don't mean the Aqency veople. This is what the
[6363]Cuban exile community was discussing.
[6364]Q | Yes. Do vou know what Howard Hunt was doing for the
[6366]Agency in 1963?
[6368]= seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
[6370]A Well, i
[6371]‘63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division of the
[6372]i
[6373]i DDP.
[6374]H 9, This is vour best recollection --
[6376]Photocopy from
[6377]Gerald Ford Library
[6379]SECRET
[6381]32275454 Page 90
[6386]raw)
[6388]Gl
[6390]PMyvscnat (Adbea OU
[6391]as
[6393]on
[6397]a
[6399]g
[6400]7
[6405]i
[6407]WAKID & PALL
[6410]fay
[6411](oi)
[6414][o>]
[6416]2000.5
[6418]Wardiagton, Ge
[6420]Mee
[6424]HW 509545 Docld:
[6426]ler dee “hat Hi fw
[6428]A, Yes.
[6430]9. “= at the moment.
[6432]engaged --
[6434]Is it possible that he was with
[6436]Domestic Operations Division in the field of proprietaries
[6438]vou are right, ves. I believe he was there.
[6440]A i guess
[6442]if) Did vou personaliv know Howard Hunt?
[6444]A. Ho.
[6446]0. Never met mim?
[6448]A  Iomet Aim. That is all. I can't say I know him.
[6449]a You would not nave known anvthing about his where-
[6451]abouts on anv particular cav,
[6453]then.
[6455]Is that true?
[6457]the record.
[6459]A. Can we go off the record?
[6460](Off the record discussion.)
[6461]THE WITNESS: Let's go back on
[6462]; BY MR. OLSEN:
[6463]0, I would like to have it on the record.
[6464]A De vou have a narticular day?
[6465]: 0 MO.
[6467]Hunt was such that vou would have
[6471]a But vou would
[6473]SECRET
[6475]32275454 Page 91
[6477]but -- bump into him nerhans downtown on
[6479]nave no occasion
[6481]1
[6483]I am just asking vou if vour acquanitance with
[6485]nown of his whereabouts on
[6487]| ,
[6488]1
[6489]i A Mo.
[6490]Q Was it verv infrequently that you ever saw him?
[6491]i ar . .
[6492]ul A. Oh, I would see nim in the halls, this type of thing,
[6493]|
[6494]1
[6496]the street.
[6498]for. knowing from one
[6500]Photocopy from .
[6501]Gerald Ford Library
[6503]nat Hen Tus TEs
[6505]ES - i dav to the next where he was?
[6506]8 2 -
[6507]z
[6508]a ‘} 4
[6509]~ 2 | A, No.
[6510]3 . . . os
[6511]g = | 0. Have vou ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf |
[6512]= "od |
[6513]2 . # Of the Agency as to where he was on November 22, 1963? :
[6514]zo: A, Yes.
[6515]Pa 0 And when did -ou conduct that incuiry?
[6516]5 i A. I nave done it twice that I recall and the most recent
[6517]4 , :
[6518]1 Hl
[6519]a ; one was I quess -- If am gust trying to think. Well, it wasn’t '
[6520]- oS !
[6521]i i
[6522]~ = too long ago necause we did have an inaquirv and we obtained the:
[6523]an
[6524]- ff time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which
[6526]_. | showed that Howard Munt vas on sick leave on that day.
[6528]-o ii Q Was this just fairlv recently? \
[6530]a :
[6531]: _ ‘ A Yes.
[6533]z od ny, Io understood from what files I have seen, “Mr.
[6535]Sturbitts, that the onlv records that were available from the
[6537]|
[6538]. . eas . . I
[6539]office of Finance showed that he had had nine hours of sick leave
[6541]during the two-week vav neriod ending the 23rd of November but
[6543]that the records were not available as to how much sick leave
[6545]|
[6547]|
[6549]: |
[6553]or annual leave had been taken on any particular dav. . |
[6555]|
[6557]. L244
[6558]2 i a Well --. 7
[6559]: 9. Am I mistaken?
[6560]es Pare i |
[6561]2 | A As I recall, ne was in a dutv status one dav and a
[6562]2 Be | -
[6564]: fo. oO
[6565]. ot i sick leave status the next day and back to duty the next dav.
[6567]. Keo} }
[6568]3 H : :
[6569]3 _ id I would have to check that vith my Budget and Fiscal Officer,
[6570]if Se i H
[6571]5 He is the chap that cot that for me..
[6575]i | Photocopy from
[6576]z
[6577]|
[6579]; SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[6581]HWY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 92
[6583]aS? tes “at tes , |
[6585]Cc
[6586]Es 1 a Can vou check that for us?
[6587]2
[6588]> 2 AL Sure.
[6589]3 5 0. And give us the results of that? H
[6590]E 4 a Yes.
[6592]if
[6593]= q, Because this is much more detailed information than  ;
[6594]4 I have been previoulv aware is available in the files of the
[6595]5 Agency.
[6596]i
[6597]i
[6598]a AL All right. I will do that.
[6599]Oo
[6600].
[6601]9 BY MR. MANFREDI: i
[6602]7 9. Do vou want to make a note of that?
[6603]1G
[6604]a A Let me have a niece of paper.
[6605]aA .
[6606]15 0. vou might also want Mr. Sturbitts' phone number which
[6607]2 !
[6608]3 ~ |
[6609]s ,, is 351-5196.
[6610]2 |
[6611]5 _, THE WITNESS: That was 22 November, right?
[6612]z Le t
[6613]. BY MR. MANFREDI: |
[6614]_ an That is the dav. |
[6616]n «1963. |
[6617]17 |
[6618]_ a. In response +o whose inquiry was that investigation
[6620]made?
[6621]> 19
[6622]2 A, I don't know. I would have to look that up, too. I |
[6623]: Porat H
[6624]uo ov a i
[6625]° . don't recall exactly who asked for it. I don't know whether --
[6626]2 al. .
[6627]3 ‘Iwill just have to check that. I don't know who it was. |
[6628]z 22
[6629]u al And the date? Do vou have anv idea when vou made the
[6630]= 23
[6631]3 ,
[6632]5 inquiry?
[6633]; 24 F
[6634]2 aA, No. But Ican find out from the B and F guy, hopefull-}
[6635]2 25 {
[6636]|
[6639]| SEC Qed Photocopy from
[6641]Gerald Ford Library
[6643]HW 50955 Doeld: 32275454 Page 33
[6645]2 EE GS Bh eB
[6647]0. You said there was a previous inquiry?
[6649]to
[6651]2 A Yes, The previous inquiry came from Archie Roosevelt
[6653]i who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief o£
[6654]“t .
[6656]Cr
[6658]Phone (Area 202) 541-4000
[6660]European Division.
[6662]Ss
[6664]5 3) When was that inquirv received?
[6666]6G: A That was about a vear ago, I quess,.
[6668]7, .: BY MR. OLSEN:
[6670]8 0. About the first time these photographs began to be
[6674]Lo A Yes.
[6676]in 0. About the bums in Dallas?
[6677]; 12 A Yes, and actually I think this -- Archie's inquiry |
[6678]i iZ came from some magazine or newspaper man in Europe. Archie was.
[6679]i va Chiefsof Station, London, Zor a long time and he apparently
[6681]-. made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media. i
[6683]16S 0 This is something vou are relating to Der Sterm
[6685]7 . Maqazine? | |
[6687]a3 A That is right, f
[6688]; 19: 0 And did I understand vou to sav that in checking with |
[6689]: 29 - the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that |
[6690]: 21 funt was on sick leave on November 22nd? |
[6691]i an i A Well, I will have to check that. That is the way
[6692]z ae, il -. ;
[6693]4 93 \ tT understood it but I did aet this through our Budget people who
[6694]: 24 have the contact with the Office of Finance.
[6695]; : 0. And that he was on annual leave the day before?
[6697]4 Photocopy from
[6698], SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[6700]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 94
[6702]é -
[6704]9
[6706]q
[6708]v
[6710]7
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[6718]3
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[6735]7
[6736]77
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[6741]3
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[6745]z
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[6785]A
[6787]- A
[6789]3 ao
[6793]7 £5
[6795]‘|
[6798]1
[6799]i
[6801]AL No. He was on a duty status the day before, on sick
[6803]a a GS
[6805]leave, and then on duty status ‘the following dav.
[6807]BY MR.
[6811]0. Was there any effort to determine what Mr. Hunt's
[6813]previous pattern with respect to sick davs had pveen?
[6815]A {Nods in neaative)
[6817]BY MR. OLSEN:
[6818]9. November 22, i963, was a Fridav. When you sav that
[6820]records reveal that he was on a duty status the next day --
[6822]A It was a Dridav. Then I was mistaken.
[6823]a) Does that mean he was on duty the following Mondav
[6825]or on the next dav, Saturday?
[6827]aA No. On =the following Monday. I didn’t realize the
[6829]22nd was a Fridav.
[6831]=)
[6833]Will vou check that thing for us-and give us a brief
[6835]memo together with whatever supporting <= copies of supporting
[6837]documents vou can find?
[6839]A, Okav.
[6841]a) As promptiv as possible on this question.
[6843]I think that covers the subject matter.
[6845]MR. MANFREDET: I can cive vou another moment if you Want.
[6847]Can vou think of anvthing else?
[6849]MR. OLSEN: I hink that is all.
[6851]i
[6853]MR. MANFREDI: Okav. off the record.
[6855](Off the record discussion)
[6857]“HW 50955 Docld:32274454 Page 95
[6859], Photocopy f
[6860]SEC RET ; Gerald _ Libeary
[6862]: BY MR. MANPREpr:
[6864]2 1 | B
[6865]a 24 0, Iam Sorry for the ™nterruption but over’ the long
[6866]2 = | I think Probably I saved vou some time,
[6867]— T
[6868]2 a4 We are talking ahout newspaper editors when we were inte
[6869]5 rupted == or when t invited the interruntion, I quess fr ough
[6870]6 . to be fair,
[6871]7 Is it not « act that the Aqencv had some relationship Ww!
[6872]F : some prominent newsnaper officials in the Miami area?
[6873]id
[6874]= A Yas,
[6875]‘i 7 - ; .
[6876]tn er And what vag cne nature of that relationship?
[6877]a 3, Traditionally the Chie¢ of Station maintained the
[6878]29 | relationship with officials of the Miami Herald, Particularly ;
[6879]2 7s ) Latin: American ecaltor, as well as relationships with Staff
[6880]z 72. Members of it, ¢ shink if is the Miami News and Stringers’ for
[6882]he tother newsnpaners and periodicals Stationed in: Miami.
[6884]i at what was the Purpose of those relationships?
[6886]ane A. Tt really couldnt+ Sav what the Prupose of the relation
[6888]-> Ship was, f méan, “he same reason that we establish a relation-.
[6890]ac |
[6892]1]
[6894]-, . Ship with the Press in this town, There were certain things that
[6895]2 -* |
[6896]8 s- . Might come to the attention of the press involving true names
[6897]3 oa |
[6898]3 .
[6899]2 . and incidents that ve fal+ Should perhaps not. be surfaced at any
[6900]2 gL .
[6901]z > | Particular time, l
[6902]3 Le + |
[6903]. _ I
[6904]“y = . . - i
[6905]3 P a DQ vou have anv knowledge of use of the press in Miami!
[6906]3 i
[6907]3 ee OF propaganda purposes? |
[6908]2 2
[6909]= _ A Mo. No,
[6910]- Ene,
[6912]Photocopy from
[6913]SECRET Gerald ford Library
[6915]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 96
[6917]Se 95
[6919]organizations? .
[6920]Photocopy from
[6922]SECRET , Gerald Ford Library
[6925]i |
[6926]msl o ; |
[6927]3 . } i
[6928]$ Ly |
[6929]3 i ) Would you know if that were the case? |
[6930]wa y
[6931]a 2} |
[6932]& A. No, E really wouldn't know, but the relationship was
[6933]od }
[6934]3 - ; }
[6935]< 3 | ;
[6936]3 | a two-way street. It wasn't simply that we assisted these |
[6937]j people as well as they were assigint us.
[6938]oa . 3
[6939]‘| Q What assistance would you render for members of :
[6940]é | oe,
[6941]J the press in Miami? :
[6942]7 il |
[6943]A Well, in the case of the Latin American editor |
[6944]fo) . . Lene = . -
[6945]we would put him in contact with the Chie*s of Stations of
[6946]i
[6947]g 1 ae .
[6948]areas he periodicaily visited and the Chiefs of Stations ‘
[6950]‘i would give him background oriefings and this type of thing :
[6951]; |
[6952]a | ee ns
[6953]| on che developments within a given country.
[6954]12 |
[6955]i | Q Was that done evenhandedly for various newspapers? |
[6956]i a2 |
[6957]tei . . one . ‘
[6958]. ~~ 3 A Predominantly, I would say probably the: Miami i
[6959]z |
[6960]3 ; cHerald received probably a little more attention than.the
[6961]a . . . i.
[6962]““41 other papers, principally because:it was a large paper and
[6963]| ra
[6964]ae i
[6965]it : - . se
[6966]+e ; their Latin American editor traveled a great deal throughout
[6967]“' . the Hemisphere.
[6968]va ; : .
[6969]. 7 3 Was he also used as a source? i
[6970]Hl :
[6971]70 4
[6972]2 ae A Mo.
[6973]2
[6974]i) 4 '
[6975]‘ ec | . . .
[6976]2 9 Do newspapermen in Washington, D.C., receive
[6977]3 et : ‘similar briefings?
[6978]= ay
[6979]a i
[6980]= ee | a Yes. |
[6981]wl i
[6982]a ke! - ~ . . - . . i
[6983]3 “ G ) We taiked with tir.Olsen for a short period of time
[6984]Z 4
[6985]2 2 : about fronts, revolutionary fronts. How large were these
[6986]3 , |
[6987]+ 25 |
[6988]‘i
[6989]| |
[6991]HW 50955 DocId:32275454 Page 97
[6993]mbh 2
[6995]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[6996]Cri
[6998]H>
[7000]“2
[7002]Ke
[7004]fe
[7005]La)
[7007]WARD & PAUL
[7008]be? }-!
[7011]1
[7012]On
[7014]pe
[7015]OY
[7019]pes
[7021]te
[7022]tO
[7024]0D 20
[7025]ae)
[7027]416 Fasat Street, S.6., Washington, O.¢. 20003
[7028]Fav)
[7029]a
[7031]1
[7033]96
[7034]A Well, the membership varied. As I said, we were
[7035]principally interested in the leadership of the orcanizations.
[7036]Once the organization was established and the leadership took
[7037]over, then they would take care of enlisting the, I guess,
[7038]getting membershio from the Cuban exile community to join.
[7039]Q What were their functions, the fronts?
[7041]A Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic:
[7043]1
[7045]thing of the splinter groups and get -- as I said, it was a
[7047]oolitical organization in exile.
[7049]9 Did they conduct any operations?
[7050]A No, not tnat I know of.
[7052]gas a |
[7053]Q Just i:ke a political varty? H
[7055]|
[7057]A Like a vcolitical party.
[7058]9 How many of these fronts were there?
[7059]A There were several of them. I really don't remember
[7061]the names of them. The FRD was one. The Revolutionary
[7063]Democratic Front. I guess that was probably the biggest one.
[7065]And’ there were some others.
[7067]9 The RDF?
[7068]x FRD. i
[7070]|
[7071]QO I see. H
[7072]A Front Revolutionary Democratic. It is the
[7074]Democratic Revolutionary Front.
[7076]2 All right. Are these groups still in existence?
[7077]A Iowoula think not. I really don't know.
[7079]SECRET Photocopy from
[7081]Gerald Ford Library
[7083]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 98
[7085]abh 3
[7087]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7089]WARD & PAUL
[7091]20004
[7093]410 Firsi Stecct, S.E., Washington, G.¢
[7099]w>
[7101]on
[7103]oO
[7105]nn So co
[7106]He GD fs
[7109]on
[7112]on
[7114]fa tn et Ts 99
[7116]9 Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?
[7118]A No. There was but there isn't any more. There
[7119]hasn't been one there for years.
[7121]9 When was it disbanded?
[7123]A I think the station was established around 1958
[7125]and -- perhaps it was established before that. I think it
[7127]went out of existence in 1958.
[7129]9 Do vou Xnow whv it went out of existence?
[7130]A No, = fon'tt. = don't have any idea.
[7131]2 Do vou xnow what function it was performing?
[7132]A Nods in necative.)
[7133]2) You mentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked
[7134]in the Cuban community for the CIA?
[7135]A He worked with these fronts, too.
[7136]9 Vas he cerforming any intelligence function in the
[7137]community?
[7138]A Intellicence functions. Well --
[7139]: 3 Was ne collecting information?
[7140]A Sure. If he got information that he thought was
[7141]worthwhile he would 2ass it on.
[7142]oe) Now, would ne have been considered one of the three
[7144]or 500 nersons emploved or assigned to the Miami Station?
[7146]a Yes. He was a contract employee,
[7147]9 And were intelligence requirements levied on such
[7149]contract emplovees?
[7150]Photocopy from
[7152]SEC RET Gerald Ford Library
[7154]HW 50955 Doecld: 32275454 Page 39
[7156]ey He “Bh i |
[7158]; 7 i
[7159]3 1
[7160]id ~ 4 A Normally, the recuirements are pretty standard,
[7161]vT
[7162]2: .
[7163]2 F or they were at that time. But here again, you always have |
[7164]S vo ad hoc type things that pop up from time to time, and have to :
[7165]z 4 ; |
[7166]be surfaced. f
[7167]; i
[7168]i _ a ‘ .
[7169]Q Some of =hese contract emplovees were, then, in
[7170]6 the business of ccilecting intelligence information in the
[7171]° Cuban communities in Miami.
[7172]8 A Right. | :
[7173]3 Q Now, I think we Zinished with the AMOTS but can
[7174]1° you think of any cther functions performed by the AMOTS that
[7175]in. we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?
[7176]5 | . 7
[7177]4 1é : A Yo, not really. Ho. |
[7178]3
[7180]4 le 9 I think vou oreviously described them for me as the :
[7182]3 is eves and ears into the Cuban community. i
[7183]. :
[7184]LE a Right. |
[7185]aa + , ~ fae : . . |
[7186]1é Q And thev actually had a physical facility in Miami
[7187]; i
[7188]17 which was their headquarters, did they not?
[7189]1lé A Exactly. |
[7190]a 19 2 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed to super-
[7191]3 ;
[7192]2 ~
[7193]™ . sae 1
[7194]3 2c. vise that facility.
[7195]21 A Yes.
[7196]2 22° 9 Yow, what has happened to -the AMOTS?
[7197]* ae a The AMOTS were craduaily phased down and will go i
[7198]3 i
[7199]3 i
[7200]3 oo _ :
[7201]cd 24 out of existence -- the AMOTS are out of existence, aren't :
[7202]z 2b, they? Isn't it the AMDUKES or ~- these are the radio. people.
[7204]SECRET Photocopy from
[7206]Gerald Ford Library
[7208]HWY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 100
[7210]a fy Ol EG, es G 99
[7212]abh 3 3 Ll
[7213]2 Q And the AMDUKES are the AMOTS?
[7214]2
[7215]a 2
[7216]% A The AMDUKES are AMOTS but they are radio people.
[7217]g 5
[7218]2 9 They are the ones that conducted the intercept
[7219]= Qo
[7220]i for NSA?
[7221]5 | 7
[7222]A Yes. The only reason we use two different names
[7224]is that in each cf these things in those cays we had to have
[7225]vi 1
[7226]a project which nad to be renewed every vear to get the
[7227]8 | <:
[7228]i funding.
[7229]t
[7231]i 9 S50 AMDURKE and AMOT --
[7232]i
[7233]1G ¥ . c
[7234]i A Synonymous.
[7236]li: ,
[7237]8) -~- are crvotonyms?
[7238]i
[7239]1é | .
[7240]5 ! A Yes.
[7243]2 13 ff Lota: :
[7244]- | i) Do the initials stand for anything other than --
[7245]g 14:
[7246]ar A No. Just pick them out. If you want to encrypt
[7247]wT somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a
[7248]i}
[7249]16 ; 5 . . : toys :
[7250]HI crypt. You con't nave anything to do with it. The AM happened
[7251]4
[7252]17 |
[7254]ssnat particular time to be the Cuban diograph.
[7256]he ae
[7258]a
[7259]_
[7261], 8) Now, turning to the Miami Station's involvement for
[7262]assistance to the Secret Service in connection with the
[7263]political cenventions in 1968 and 1972, would you briefly
[7265]describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by
[7267]5 - the Agency to the Secret Service?
[7268]z i A At the request of the Secret Service we conducted
[7269]E 24 | name traces on individuals whom the Secret Service wanted
[7271]£5 uraced. These includedthe emplovees of all hotels in Miami
[7273]| SEC RET photocopy from
[7275], Gerald ford Library
[7277]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page i101
[7280]pet aT | 100 |
[7282]oh 6 i
[7283]ib H
[7284]e nN
[7285]g 1 i . .
[7286]g | Beach where any convention activities were to take place,
[7287]“ i
[7288]8 a .
[7289]N | employees of catering services, Limosine service, employees
[7290]3
[7291]q Soy, . oo Spe
[7292]2 in -- what do they call it, the Civic Center in Miami. It
[7294]; is a big auditorium down there. I forget what they call it.
[7295]5 |
[7296]j Foreign news people and media, television, radio péople.
[7297]i
[7298]6 i . ; .
[7299]: e) Jere these seople on whom name traces were requested
[7300]7G bees ;
[7301]: all foreign nationals?
[7302]8 i eos
[7303]H A All foreign nationals.
[7304]9 4 . : ;
[7305]‘ 2 Was there anv check made to determine whether
[7306]16 4 = . es
[7307]y any of them were American citizens?
[7308]|
[7309]11i - . .
[7310]fl A ‘la levied on the Secret Service as a requirement
[7311]aa] 2 :
[7312]Lk . , . se + oy -
[7313]3 | that they have identified these ceople by nationality before
[7314]: 13 |
[7315]wT a we would run a name trace. Inadvertently, at one time
[7316]Ht
[7318]3 “sl they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens
[7319]‘| .
[7320]TAR . 7 . .
[7321]“vt which we promptly sent back to them and told them we could
[7322]i
[7323]sg |
[7324]16 | not trace.
[7325]at
[7326]17 . - Lo .
[7327]ul i) Ana this vractice was followed both in 1968 and
[7329]1972?
[7330]Oo 4 : +g
[7331]3 io | A That is right.
[7332]5 | -
[7333]“ i
[7334]3 20 | Q And where were these names traced?
[7335]3 els A They were traced back here and also in Miami. The
[7336]4 | : ~ .
[7337]3 ae | Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check
[7338]w | '
[7339]“ 23 | . - : oo. . -
[7340]3 H here. In the case or Cubans, probably the Miami Station haa
[7341]5 | : a
[7342]¢ ea more information on the Cubans than we would have back here.
[7343]3
[7344]= 6 7 a
[7345]* £5 | o But the names were traced through Agency files?
[7347]: SEC RET . photocopy from | |
[7349]Gerald Ford Library
[7351]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 102
[7353]sph 7
[7355]Phone (Area 202) 544-0000
[7356]Gi to
[7360]WAHD & PAUL
[7361]| coma
[7364]21
[7366]22
[7368]4iG first otreet, SEL, Wastimygton, OC. 20005
[7370]20
[7372]A
[7374]Q
[7376]on this
[7378]A
[7380]Q
[7382]coed Hes “eet BE HEB 101
[7384]Through Agency files.
[7385]Yas Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI
[7387]as well?
[7389]And in effect,they were getting an all-Agency name
[7391]check --
[7393]A
[7395]Right. '
[7396]-- on people who might pose a security threat -~-
[7397]Yes.
[7399]77 to a candidate?
[7401]ell, they were just trying to cetermine who might
[7403]be a security threat.
[7405]Q That is right. Potential threat.
[7407]WA Yes. :
[7409]3 For what political parties ~- strike that.
[7411]Tn 1968 was this service srovided for both political
[7413]conventions?
[7415]A Both political conventions.
[7417]on Were they both held in Miami that year?
[7419]A No. I guess it was in 1972 thev were both held
[7420]there. I think it was jfust. the Democratic in 1968.
[7422]9 These requests did come from the Secret Service
[7423]rather than --
[7425]A From the Secret Service and it was -- the Director
[7426]of the Secret Service came to the DCI and asked him for
[7428]Photocopy from
[7429]Gerald Ford Library
[7431]- SECRET
[7433]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 103
[7436]102
[7438]the records with respect to
[7440]the names that have been traced.
[7442]cards down in your files?
[7444]records been maintained? Is there
[7446]to maintain them when
[7448]will destroy anything.
[7450]any Dicketing at various
[7452]7€en conducted by Cuban :
[7454]until I was told of it.
[7455]was a Spontaneous action on
[7457]to
[7459]were instructed
[7460]and I have been unable to.
[7462]it been reported that pickets
[7464]I think another
[7466]able to verify that these }
[7468]Photocopy from
[7471]o
[7472]: 1 |
[7473]g | support.
[7474]a) "
[7475]g 2
[7476]a | 2 Do you still maintain
[7477]a
[7478]¢ o | : . . mokitG Hep?
[7479]2 i that tracing activity?
[7480]¢ “ 5 .
[7482]if A I have all
[7483]a
[7485]i 2 And they are on little
[7486],
[7487]6 i
[7488]A Yes,
[7489]i .
[7490]7 |
[7491]9 Why have those
[7492]t .
[7493]8 | . toy : . .
[7494]i any reason those records nave 5een maintained?
[7495]|
[7496]9 fi ted ;
[7497]\ A ‘Vell, because ve were told
[7498]10 L. ; ;
[7499]| tne Vatercate ching broke.
[7501]ii 2 I see.
[7502]| ;
[7503]4 le . .
[7504]5 a A And since then nobody
[7505]bl 13
[7507]a - Q K. Are you aware of
[7508]Q |
[7511]a. places in the country that has 5b
[7512]VS
[7513]25
[7514]H groups?
[7515]7 .
[7516]16 A Co was not aware of it
[7517]VV - :
[7518]i? I still don't know whether this
[7519]3 | = ay ,
[7520]18 | the part of these reople cr whether they
[7521]| -
[7522]| ’
[7523]3 19 | do it. I tried to run that down
[7524]3
[7525]x 20 -
[7526]4 2 At what locations has
[7527]5 ;
[7528]3 om were located?
[7529]3 22 ae ce: ae -
[7530], A Airline offices in New York, Miami.
[7531]A
[7532]: 23 |
[7533]3 place. I forget where it was.
[7535]g a4 ) Have you in fact been
[7536]. £5 persons were Cubans?
[7538]HW 50955 Docid:32275454 Page i04
[7540]Gerald Ford Library
[7542]aan i oo a Yeas He |
[7544]1
[7545]g ‘
[7546]3 Li . te = . .
[7547]t ‘i A Well, it is a matter of record in the AMOT history
[7548]z ‘
[7549]g 2 3 , Lens - 5 . , ; .
[7550]3 i that this indeed did take slace. ‘low, what I have been trying
[7551]3 . il
[7552]4 i ; . : a: : .
[7553]> ° H to determine is whether the On-Site Case Officer authorized
[7554]E a
[7555]& 4 3 _ . ¢ ;
[7556]- this,which I fully coubt. |
[7557]5 : 9 Who was the On-Site Case Officer?.
[7558]: | |
[7559]i : .. = 4 1 2 j
[7560]6 A At that time it was a fellow by the name or Tony i
[7561]‘i
[7562]? 1 Sforza.
[7563]3 | |
[7564]i 9 Zs he still alive? |
[7565]i
[7566]: he is a tami t 4
[7567]9 i A Yes, he is down in Miami. But I just do not know \
[7568]190% whether this was a unilateral action on the part of the |
[7569]|
[7570]37 : - = o
[7571]~~ | AMOTS against the countries that were then trading with |
[7572]< 12 | Cuba, notably Spain and Great Britain and France. |
[7573]s. | |
[7574]2! . . . 5 . . i
[7575]2 13 | Q Other than this incident which we -- strike that.
[7576]Q Ht .
[7577]| |
[7578]3 14 3 dhat kind of an investigation have you conducted? |
[7579]i
[7581]25 | A tT nave taiked to veople, which is really all you
[7582]i! a
[7583]163 can do. There is no other way vou can do it.
[7584]|
[7585]17 i 2) You have been unable to determine who, if anyone,
[7586]12! authorized this activity? Have you been able to identify
[7588]. :| :
[7589]2 19! any of the persons who participated in the picketing?
[7590]: |
[7591]1
[7592]G 20 11 A lo.
[7593]a i |
[7594]é 21, ) With what frequency did this activity occur?
[7595]2 Ze | A t don't have any idea. I only know of one instance. |
[7596]5 “|
[7597]a i . : , ., .
[7598]z 23 | 9 This was in New York City?
[7599]3
[7600]a i
[7601]a 24 |i A New York City and Miami.
[7602]: - |
[7603]7 25 1 9 Do you know of any organized political activity that |
[7604]i . }
[7605]| | |
[7606]I SECRET Photocopy from
[7608]Gerald Ford Library
[7609]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 105 ‘
[7611]: ta Chg es Bm . 104 |
[7612]. 2 i
[7613]coh «103 1
[7614]io) . ~ +
[7615]z | the AMOTS engaged in?
[7616]o
[7617]3 2 | , — . ar ;
[7618]a | aA To my knowledge, they didn't engage in any.
[7619]3 .
[7620]< 3 a toe
[7621]2 | Q Any political activity.
[7622]: am
[7623]= & il - toe
[7624]i Do you know of any other activities that they have |
[7626]5 3 . Seas .
[7627]i conducted within this country, they or any of their members
[7628]‘ i
[7629]6 i, ; - eae i . :
[7630]: have conducted within this country that we have not already
[7631]7 |i
[7632]| discussed this afternoon? |
[7633]i i
[7634]8 A No.
[7635]j ° ° i
[7636]9. _ ees
[7637]il 9 Any volitical activities? Any operations?
[7638]10 A No. Not really. 92f course, we have used certain
[7639]. ,
[7640]Li
[7641]“ select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors, Cuban
[7642]| 4
[7643]12 : - , . . oo |
[7644]3 “|| defectors. In other words, live with them until they are
[7645]: 13 | . |
[7646]; | resettled and this type of thing. And this is another activity
[7647]z Ht i
[7648]< 4, it :
[7649]3 14 | they engaged in. But other than that, I can't think of anvy-
[7650]|
[7651]_ i
[7652]15 | thing else. |
[7653]| ‘
[7654]16 | Q Do you know of any criminal activities that have
[7655]| |
[7656]i? | been attribited to --. |
[7657]|
[7658]aa A IT have heard of some allegations which have never
[7659]|
[7660]5
[7661]2 19 | been sroven. |
[7662]S ~ i
[7663]J 20 9 What are the allegations? i
[7665]= 5 | . - .
[7666]3 al | A The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances
[7667]= 22 | and this tyoe of thing.
[7668]Ww | ;
[7669]a ;
[7670]= 25 o Have those alleaations been made with any fre- :
[7672]2 24 quency?
[7674]7 £9 | A Weil, I forget who it was. It was during the :
[7675]1
[7676]| SECRET
[7677]Photocopy from
[7679]Gerald Ford Library
[7680]HW 50955 Docla:32275454 Page 106 pos
[7684]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7687]as
[7689]13
[7691]WARD & PAUL
[7694]a an
[7696]i
[7697]2
[7699]4tG First Strze1, S.E., Wastinglon, O.c. 20603
[7701]12 |
[7703]TO es 105
[7705]2
[7707]Watergate trial. Some cf these allegations that came out
[7709]and I think they were carried in the Anderson column but we
[7710]made file checks and this type of thing. One particular
[7711]activity was supposed to nave been carried out in Rockefeller
[7712]Center in New York and it turns out it was taken out of
[7713]context. ft was 2 training mission and -~ sraining exercise.
[7714]These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York
[7716]and they were simply asked to go inte a branch of the Manhact
[7719]one oe
[7721]77 Chase Manhattan and <3 come back out and then they were
[7722]Supposed to diagram the layout of the bank. And this to some
[7723]of chem meant casing the sank when in fact it was justa
[7724]memory exercise.
[7726]q with what Zrecuency were those kinds of training
[7727]exercises conductsd?
[7729]A Well, whenever there was an -- whenever it was felt
[7731]that these people, selecred individuals, were to be trained
[7733]4 And Gid their trade craft training include such
[7735]things as surveillance?
[7737]cy cure.
[7738]2 And break-ins?
[7740]No. ot break-ins. Nor Surreptitious entry. As I
[7742]ws.
[7744]said, in the case of this varticular thing, it was misinter-
[7745]preted as casing the bank. These exercises were given -- they
[7747]could have walked into vour office, your outer office and
[7749]SECRET Photocopy from |
[7750]Gerald Ford Library '
[7752]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page i107
[7754]oh 12
[7756]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7758]an
[7760]WARD & PAUL
[7762]an o>
[7764]be
[7766]od
[7767]Or
[7769]20
[7771]21
[7773]22
[7775]235
[7777]24
[7779]416 First Street, S.E., Washington, ©.C. 20003
[7781]sad) fr Yes WA ths 106
[7783]es
[7785]said -- the instructor could have said two hours later tell
[7786]f
[7788]me what is in that outer office? What is the layout of it?
[7789]This is just for observation.
[7791]9 You stated earlier none of those allegations have
[7793]ne
[7795]been proven. lave any of them been proved to your
[7797]satisfaction?
[7798]A Mo. Ithink we disproved them to my satisfaction.
[7799]9 I take it vou do not believe they took place other
[7801]than the training exercise?
[7803]A Oh, no. No. I don't believe they dic.
[7804]9 Do you know of any instances where members of that
[7806]group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
[7808]in this country?
[7809]A No.
[7811]2 -- dave you ever been present at any discussions of
[7812]the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the
[7814]Miami Station within this. country?
[7816]A Legality? No.
[7817]a Yow about the propriety?
[7818]A Well, to my knowledge, that really never came up.
[7820]No one to my knowledge, has ever questioned the legality or
[7821]the propriety of having the Station.”
[7823]9 There have been some allegations in the press and
[7824]elsewhere about possible misuse of Cuban exiles, members of
[7826]that community, by the CIA. Are vou aware of those?
[7828]SEC RET Photocopy from
[7830]Gerald Ford Library
[7832]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 108
[7835]‘sh 13
[7839]Phone (Area 202) 544-6006
[7844]WARD & PAUL
[7845]| ad
[7846]on
[7848]he
[7851]Lé
[7853]el
[7855]410 First Stecel, S.E., Washingion, D.C. 26003
[7857]i
[7860]22.
[7862]20...
[7864]aD Teg Yas TE Ee 8 107 i
[7866]A No.
[7867]Q We received some correspondence and I have seen some |
[7868]i
[7870]articles that suggest that the Cuban community is sort of
[7872]a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for variousi
[7873]operations in this country.
[7875]+ You mean this country?
[7878]2 Yes. Picketing was one example. There were also some |
[7880]other examples of unusual activities. 50 you have any knowledge
[7882]use by the CIA cf Cuban nationals or exiles for any typ
[7886]fo)
[7887]of operation within this country?
[7888]A No.
[7890]2) Do you know whether or not the Agency has provided
[7892]any financial support for Cuban businessmen in this country? ;
[7894]ye
[7896]No. Not to my knowledge.
[7898]2 Other than the maintenance of cover?
[7900]' H
[7901]aA No. }
[7902]23 Establishment of businesses? i
[7903]A No.
[7904]a) No? |
[7906]t
[7907]ay No. |
[7910]'
[7912]In the course of our discussions today we discussed
[7914]i
[7916]the. AMOTS, the AMDUKES, various oolitical front groups,
[7918]revolutionary front croups. Are there any other emigre, |
[7920]Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supported
[7921]i
[7923]by the Agency, either financially or otherwise?
[7925]SEC RET Photocopy from ; |
[7927]Gerald Ford Library
[7929]HY 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 109
[7931]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[7932]ay)
[7934]WARD & PAUL
[7935]fe!
[7938]io)
[7943]ion)
[7945]23
[7947]24
[7949]410 first Sircet, S.E., Washinglom, ©O.C. 20003
[7951]25
[7953]22
[7955]wep the tH Bh tie & 108
[7957]A Not to my knowledce.
[7959]) Are you familiar with the appendix that was attached
[7961]to Mr. Colby?s statement?
[7963]A Yes.
[7965]Q Did you have some role in drafting that?
[7967]A You mean the Miami Station thing? ~
[7968]a) Appendix J, entitled, “The Miami Station".
[7970]A Yes.
[7972]Q You wrote it?
[7974]x Yes,
[7976]i) It has a familiar ring about it. There are referenc
[7978]to indigenous organizations, emigre organizations. Are
[7979]there any others other than the ones we have been discussing?
[7980]A Not to my knowledge. Shere: are, you know, if vou
[7981]want, to. call.it an organization, we did, vou know, subsidize
[7982]thevwRelleout of Juanita Castro.
[7983]QQ Yes, I am familiar with that.
[7985]A fou are familiar with all that and that is by the
[7987]board now,:too.
[7989]Q Sne was. doing -- ~-
[7991]A Propaganda.
[7993]) -- oropaganda broadcasts. .
[7995]A Yes.
[7997]2 Do you have any »ersonal knowledge of what xind of
[7999]intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the Miami
[8001]Photocopy from
[8002]SECRET Gerald Ford Library
[8004]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page 110
[8008]pa
[8009]1)
[8012]Phone (Area 202) 544-606b
[8014]WARD & PAUL
[8016]410 First Strcet, $-€., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[8018]od
[8020]Crt
[8022]on
[8024]11
[8026]12
[8028]13
[8032]20
[8034]21
[8036]22
[8038]taf Hon Cat BY Bs 109
[8040]area now by the Miami Staticn?
[8042]A There are no domestic activities at all in the
[8043]Miami Station. All Cuban activities have been moved back
[8044]here to Headauarters. The ‘‘iami Station now is completely
[8045]and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean.
[8047]9 Does the !flami Station -- I beg your pardon --
[8048]does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban
[8049]situation in Miami run any 3gents in the Cuban community?
[8051]A No. Well, let me exMDlain that to you. “Ne do have
[8052]a career agent who has been with us for a good many vears
[8053]in it!iami and we do use nim to contact relatives of Cubans
[8054]who are still in Cuba. T mean, relatives who are in the U.S.
[8055]who nave relatives in Cuba.
[8057]Now, this is done srincipally with the idea of a
[8058]recruitment target, determine weaknesses or strengths, ‘this
[8060]type of thing. He Goes contact these people all over the
[8062]3
[8064]United States. If we come across an individual that. looks like
[8066]ne might be recruitable, or szerhaps we could even double hin,
[8068]‘we Will, after we make our creliminary assessment, and we
[8070]find cut where relatives anc these types of people are, we
[8071]will ask this career agent cr instruct him to go contact
[8073]these people, be it New York, New Jersey, Chicago, or what-
[8075]aver.
[8076]Se vou use Cuban, now citizens or aliens in this
[8078]COuUntIrV as access aqdents. . .
[8082]Gerald Ford Library
[8084]SECRET
[8086]HW 50955 Docld:32275454 Page iii
[8088]ah ke
[8090]on
[8094]i od io Yes OES B
[8095]16 j
[8096]8 !
[8097]3 1 . ws
[8098]2 | A Right.
[8099]3 i
[8100]3 an Q Just like foreign associates would do.
[8101]3 . —_ |
[8102]< ° A Exactly.
[8103]g
[8104]& at
[8105]* ‘* | i) Are there any more people like Bernard Barker who ©
[8106]" i
[8107]5 4 . ; - . .
[8108]vil are contract emplovees of the Agency who still work in the :
[8109]|
[8110]HI a . . _ :
[8111]6  iidami-Cuban community?
[8112]> i
[8113]cy A No. Mone.
[8114]i |
[8115]Hl : . y i
[8116]8 | 2 That entire apdaratus nas been -- |
[8117]i Ceo
[8118]if
[8119]9 a Has been dismantled. |
[8120]| |
[8121]1C | 9 -~- dismantled. “hat is the current size of the
[8122]1
[8123]il | Miami Station? |
[8124].
[8125]‘ le) A’ I really Gon't know but it runs between 11 and 14,
[8126]a as far as I know. I think it will be 1l by the next fiscal
[8127]Q |
[8129]ES vear. , |
[8130]MR. MANFREDI: Off the record. |
[8131](Discussion off the record.) |
[8132]|
[8133]“MR.MANFREDI: Let's aco nack on the record.
[8134]i
[8135]i . .
[8136]18 i BY MR. MANFREDI:
[8137]3 19 9 There are presently no Cuban Ops being conducted out
[8138]3 i -
[8139]3 20 | of iiami?
[8140]G |
[8141]g 21 aA No. All Cuban Ops. are being conducted out of |
[8142]z | ,
[8143]3 22 | jeadquarters. © oF
[8144]ud | I
[8146]< 23 | 2 And even from the Headquarters location there are
[8147]g
[8148]3 24 | no Daramilitary operations? i
[8149]3 . Photocopy from
[8150]= A Mo. Gerald Ford Library i
[8151]i
[8152]i
[8153]to SECRET
[8155]HY 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 112
[8157]SECRET Lu
[8159]i
[8160]i
[8162]|
[8163]| Commission for vour cooperation.
[8165]| Photocopy from
[8168]1
[8170]SECRET , Gerald Ford Library
[8172]a
[8173]i
[8174]eet ti
[8175]abh 17, 4
[8176]3 1 |
[8177]$ -~ i .
[8178]g i 9 Mo covert -- well, there is some propaganda activity |
[8179]Ps) i =
[8180]a 2
[8182]N | being conducted still?
[8183]Q a |
[8184]< of
[8185]Q Hl A On a very small scale, and the covert action facilit:
[8186]E 2] ;
[8187]i that we had, the radio, taped srogram, is being terminated |
[8189]i py 30 June. So for all practical purposes, it is terminated  .;
[8190]6
[8191]+ now, :
[8192]7 | i
[8193]: ia) The Miami Station is under official cover. |
[8194]By
[8195]i A Yes,
[8196]9 | oo, ;
[8197]2 And it nas been decreased to how many people? |
[8198]i !
[8199]Lc ti . ; |
[8200]i A Between il and 14. !
[8201]li rf |
[8202]| Q And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
[8203]12 | .
[8204]3 respect to Cuba?
[8206]a t '
[8207]a 13; ‘
[8208]° 4 A Absolutely none.
[8209]a i j
[8210]3 14 3 _ eq eas . .
[8211]| 2 And its responsisilities are entirely directed to
[8212]15 j
[8213], other Latin American countries?
[8214]16! . .
[8215]‘i A To Caribbean countries.
[8217]wd 9 Caribbean countries. And I trust that there are
[8218]18 4 ; a
[8219]. Other Agency stations in the Caribbean?
[8220]3 19 ; A Yes.
[8221]4 20 i a) Nell, I have no further questions, Mr. Sturbitts. |
[8222]t 1
[8223]3 21: ; ; .
[8224]2 ; i If vou have anything vou would like to add you are welcome
[8226]3 i
[8227]2!
[8228]= 2 j. to do so.
[8229]il '
[8230]° 23 | |
[8231]3 ; A No, I have nothing. ;
[8232]& 24 |
[8233]2 “Tl a Iowant to thank vou on behalf of myself and the
[8234]° ' i
[8235]= 25 |
[8236]t
[8237]i
[8239]HW 50955 Docld: 32275454 Page 113
[8241]8
[8243]i=]
[8245]g 1
[8247]z
[8249]4
[8251]Pr
[8253]ra 2
[8255]o
[8257]N
[8259]3 -
[8261]ca °o
[8263]2
[8266]i
[8267]5
[8269]WARD & FAUL
[8271]22
[8273]29
[8275]24
[8277]420 Ferst Street, S.E., Washinglou, O.C. 20003
[8279]295
[8281]HW 50955 Docld:
[8285]| A Sure.
[8286]2 Iam sorry ve had to take so much of your time.
[8287]A That is ali rignt.
[8288]Q Thank you again.
[8289](Whereupon, at 3:35 o'clock p.m., the taking of “ne
[8291]| deposition was concluded.)
[8293]Photocopy from
[8294]Gerald Ford Library
[8296]SECRET
[8298]i
[8299]32275454 Page 114