[1]187-10005-10228] | | 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
[4]' Date: 10/01/93
[6]JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
[8]2: . IDENTIFICATION FORM
[9]oe AGENCY INFORMATION
[11]AGENCY : SSCIA
[12]RECORD NUMBER : 157-10005-10228
[14]RECORDS SERIES :
[16]AGENCY FILE NUMBER : R2146
[18]ORIGINATOR : SSCIA
[19]FROM :
[20]TO :
[22]TITLE :
[23]TRANSCRIPT/REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS/AND EXHIBITS AS LISTED
[25]DATE : 01/10/76
[26]PAGES : 96 ,
[28]SUBJECTS :
[29]TESTIMONY OF E. HOWARD HUNT
[31]DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL- DOCUMENT
[32]CLASSIFICATION : T
[33]RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED
[34]CURRENT STATUS : P
[35]DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 10/01/93
[37]OPENING CRITERIA :
[39]COMMENTS : _ «
[40]BOX 248-10
[42][R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED
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[48]Sa SSCI EG. 243 -1@
[49]state of Florida }
[51]nty of Okaloosa )
[53]SS:
[55]Cou
[56]AFFIDAVIT
[58]E. HOWARD HUNT, JR., being duly sworn, deposes and
[60]says:
[62]L. On January 10, 1976, I was examined by Frederick D.
[64]Baron, a counsel for the Senate Select Committee to Study
[65]Governmental Operations With Respect to Intelligence Activities.
[67]1976, I was examined by both Mr. Baron and Howard
[69]At
[71]Qn January 11,
[72]Liebengood, another counsel for the Senate Select Committee.
[74]both of these examinations I was accompanied by my counsel, Randall Cc.
[76]@ Coleman, and advised of my Constitutional rights.
[78]2. I have read the transcripts of both of the above-
[79]mentioned examinations, and I hereby affirm that my testimony
[81]therein is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
[83]= = rd G Lee Lb , e
[84]; E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
[86]Sworn to before me this Sixth
[88]day of February, 1976.
[90]AAS C. ZZ, aide
[93]. Notary Public
[94]My Com-s'-ion Expires Jan. 4, 1977
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[99]Unauthorized Disclosure Subject
[100]to Criminal Sanctions
[102]ee Che United States Senate ae te
[104]ea wy ao wera 7
[106]‘ lb te eee al
[107]‘ Report of Proceedings
[108]ERVIN O RES
[110]on S/7)? _—-&
[113]Hearing held before
[115]Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental
[117]Operations With Respect to Intelligence Activities
[119]CIAHAS NO OBJECTION TO ~~
[120]DECLASSIFICATION AND/OR
[121]RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT
[123]AS SANITIZED *
[124]wd-4-AF a
[126]ONG
[129]Saturday, January 10, 1976
[131]oe
[133]Washingma, D.C
[135](Stenotype Tape and Waste turned over
[136]to the Committee for destruction)
[139]wl Couicg WARD & PAUL
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[142]re WASHINGTON, D. C. 20008"
[144](208) 544-6000
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[193]my understanding was that Colonel Pash had been deing business,
[195]TOP SECRET 2s) "7
[197]might have directed me to this particular unit.
[199]I was told that somewhere within the overall political
[201]|| and psychological staff there was located a man with a small
[203]: office. This man's name was Pash, Colonel Boris Pash, and
[205]let us say, with the Agency in West Germany for quite awhile. |
[206]I sought out Colonel Pash, I was directed to his office
[208]and found sitting with him another Agency officer named @itqatcr?
[210]4]
[212]I'm not sure whether it isa
[214]Mr. Baron. It's a Greek name. GReveeiGes is his correct
[216]first name, but he goes by
[218]Mr. Hunt. Very good. But in any case, he was known
[220]throughout my career asJ And I waa at that
[222]point on, let's say, a search mission to determine whether the
[224]alleged capability of Colonel Pash in wet affairs, which is
[226]how it was referred to, that ia liquidations, would have any
[227]relevance to our particular problem of the Albanian dis-
[228]appointments. |
[229]Mr, Baron. By liquidations, you mean assassinations?
[230]Mr. Hunt. Aasassinations., Assassinations, kidaappings,
[231]removals, let's say.
[233]This had been alleged to me. Seo I spoke to Colonel Pash
[235]‘Ws presence. I explained the problem to hin,
[237]although at that juncture I'm quite sure that we had not
[239]identified the Albanian suspect. Se we were talking hypethetically
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[248]WARD & PAUL
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[276]earlier, that when I first inquired around for the location of
[278]Colonel Pash and his assistant, the reaction I encountered
[280]was a rather jesting one, and the impression I gained was
[282]very little.
[284]| here were a couple of men who were drawing salaries and doing
[286]And so when Colonel Pash seemed reluctant to become
[288]involved in responding affirmatively to my questions, my
[290]_inference was that Colonel Pash and @feangue? could well not
[292]have such a capability but for purposes of employment and
[294]status, this was the job they had. But they didn't want
[296]anyone to call upon them to activate their particular
[298]abilities.
[300]Now that was my impression, and I was a little disgusted
[302]by it. I think I talked to the Chief of the PP staff later,
[304]who was of course well aware of the Albanian problem and I
[306]said I didn't get any satisfaction from Pash, but it doesn't
[308]really make any difference because we don't have the name
[310]of the suspected individual.
[312]Mr. Baron.
[314]Just to stop here for a second and clear up
[316]some of these details, were you under the impression that what
[318]you called wet affairs, assassinations, kidnappings, or other
[320]removals from the scene of troublesome individuals was the
[322]primary function of this unit that Pash and aicacua were
[324]running?
[326]Mr. Hunt.
[328]Bocld: salonsse Page 5
[330]Yes,
[332]In fact the only. -As far as I knew, they
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[387]had no other function. If they had another function, I was
[389]| never made aware of what it was.
[391]Do you know anything about Colonel Pash's background?
[393]Mr. Baron. I know a bit, but if you think that there are
[394]relevant details to put on the background, go ahead.
[396]Mr. Hunt. Well, I had not thought of Colonel Pash for
[397]years until I began reading a hook called "Lawrence and Oppen-
[398]heimer," and I saw quite a few references to Colonel Pash, I
[399]had known previously that he had been associated during the
[400]war with the Manhattan Project and that he had a security
[401]background. And as I believe I touched on briefly before, it
[403]was my impression that Pash had been active a couple of years
[405]| at least before I knew him in West Germany with the sort of
[407]thing that we had been discussing so far today.
[409]Mr. Baron. What kinds of stories had you heard about
[410]Pash's previous activities?
[412]Mr. Hunt. Kidnappings mostly.
[414]Mr. Baren. And where were those?
[416]Mr. Hunt. West Germany and West Berlin.
[417]Mr. Baren. Do you know the names of any of the victims
[419]of the kidnapping or any of the people involved other than
[421]Pash and 3?
[422]Mr. Hunt. I do not.
[423]Mr. Baron. And are you aware from whatever source of
[425]any assassination planning or attempts that Pash was involved
[427]TQP SGECRET
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[464]te
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[468]Mr. Hunt. I am not.
[470]Mr. Baron. Does your answer include not only the period
[471]; of time before you talked with Colonel Pash but after you
[472]talked with Colonel Pash?
[474]i . Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
[476]I might add that I was rather briefly at CIA headquarters
[478]at that time and within a very short period of time after I
[480]Guatemala project, the overthrow of Guatemala.
[482]Mr. Baron. Is that the reason why you did not follow up
[483]on the problem with this particular suspected double agent
[484]after not receiving satisfaction from Colonel Pash?
[486]Mr. Hunt. That carcainly could have been one reason.
[488]On the other hand, I was chief of, I can see I'm really going
[490]to have to get into a lot more here. This is going to be
[492]dry and dull stuff for you.
[494]who was very upset about the disappearance and loss of all
[496]poeta:a2Hozaie Page 7 TOP SECRET
[498]of his partisans in the operationa that the Agency was conducting.
[500]intelligence or espionage aspect, which {is not my function, but
[502]had had my interview with Colonel Pash, I was transferred to the
[505]f
[506]i
[507]i
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[511]|
[512]i
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[518]Bt pees 2 Se
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[523]i
[525]parachuted to their
[527]al
[529]5 | deaths in Albania? And that was my introduction to the whole
[530]6 | scene in West Germany, where the balance of his retainers were
[531]5 | being held by the CIA. Well, not being held, but where they
[532]g | were being housed and trained for Albanian operations.
[533]9 Mr. Baron. Can you explain the term "retainer"?
[535]Mr. Hunt. Well, I understood that when he finally got
[536]out of Albania, that he brought with him what I can best
[537]describe as retainers. That is bodyguards, members of his
[539]personal staff, probably some relatives. I think he had
[541]WARD & PAUL
[542]|
[543]Lae)
[545]four or five sisters with him, But the able-bodied portion
[547]14
[548]is of those loyalists who came out with him we had largely taken
[549]16
[551]18 | became apprehensive. a
[552]: 19 Se that was my interest in what was happening to the
[553]: 29 | Albanians that we parachuted in Se I had no
[554]i 21 functional counter-espionage interest in the affair. This
[555]: 22 would have been handled and this was handled by the Chief
[556]: 23 of Counter-espionage for the Division.
[557]@ : 24 Mr. Baron. Who would that have been at the time?
[558]° 25 Mr. Hunt. .I can't remember at this point.
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[622]Mr. Baron. But that would be the person primarily
[623]responsible for taking care of this double agent problem?
[625]Mr. Hunt. That’s correct.
[627]Mr. Baron, Are you aware of what happened with that
[628]suspected double agent?
[630]Mr. Hunt. I have no idea because, as I may have indicated
[631]previously off the record, it became apparent some years later
[632]that the unfortunate fate of our Albanian agents was linked
[633]far more closely to the revelations of Kim Philby, the
[634]Soviet agent who was in direct liaison with us in Washington
[635]and in Great Britain, rather than any penetration, although
[636]the possibility of a penetration was of course always there.
[637]But I don't think that anybody was ever focused.
[639]Again, I left for Latin American affairs. I left the
[640]Division about that time and I really never heard about it
[642]Bthe Albanian chief, departed for
[644]Southeast Asia, and the whole sort of complex of knowledgeable
[645]people was broken up through normal transfers and special
[646]activities like the Guatemala project.
[648]Mr, Baron. Was gin Di mur knowledeable about your
[650]approach to Colonel Pash?
[651]Mr. Hunt. Very likely he was, yea. I don't think I
[653]would have discussed anything with Colonel Pash about the
[655]matter without talking Logie @about it.
[657]Mr. Baron. Who else would have known that you approached
[659]TQR SECRET
[661]gsh 16 TOP SECRET 16
[663]Colonel Pash with the idea in mind of seeing if an assassination
[665]or a kidnapping couldn't be arranged?
[667]Pnone (Area 202) §44-6000
[668]i
[670]° Mr. Hunt. The then Chief of Foreign Intelligence and
[671]é 4 Counter-Intelligence for the Division. And I think now that that
[673]I think he wore both
[675]6 | hats. He had both foreign intelligence responsibility and
[676]° the counter-intelligence responsibility. And I might have told |
[677]8 the division chief about it, although it was not, it had not
[678]a ‘achieved such stature at that point that I would have
[680]10 necessarily talked to the Division Chief, who I believe at
[681]11} that time was John Richardson of later Vietnam fame.
[683]le It's also possible that the Division Chief in that era
[685]WARD & PAUL
[687]13 | was John Baker, now deceased, who left that division to
[689]14 || become Chief of the PP staff, and that would have been a
[691]15 || normal follow through for me if I had discussed it with John
[692]16 || Baker, my direct Chief, and then to have discussed it with
[693]17 | Bim when he was my staff chief in the overall political and
[695]18 | psychological staff.
[697]19 Mr. Baron. Anyone else who would have known about your
[699]20 || approach to Colonel Pash or about --
[700]al Mr. Hunt. Or his function.
[701]Le Mr. Baron. Yes, that Colonel Pash was considered to have
[703]23 assassinations as one of his functions.
[705]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[707]24 Mr. Hunt. We had a Colonel ‘Buffington who at that time
[709]25! was a member of the PP gfaff, the overall PP staff, and I think
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[758]that he would hav e been knowledgeable about it.
[760]Mr. Baron. Was that Milton Buf fington?~
[762]Mr. Hunt. Yes. I think he later went on and had a career
[763]in the Office of Securitv. “Milton Buffington, ves.
[765]Mr. Baron. Anyone else?
[767]Mr. Hunt. Yes, I have the names of three men who unfor-
[768]tunately are dead. I could give those names, though. Mr. C.
[770]Tracy Barnes, Mr. John Baker ,|who I've already mentioned, and
[772]jee hese men were all at one time or another
[774]chiefs of the Agency's PP staff.
[775]Another man now living to the best of my knowledge who
[777]might well have had knowledge of Pash's function was the
[779]then-chief of the Economic Warfare staff of the PP staff and nbs
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[816]name was Gates Lloyd. He later became the Deputy Director for
[818]Support of the Agency.
[820]There's a man named Lec who was in the
[821]Psychological Warfare Branch of the PP staff. I believe at
[822]that time there was an International Organizations Branch
[823]which later became the International Organizations Division,
[824]then headed by Cord Myer, Jr., and his Deputy at that time was
[825]Tom Braden, the now-columnist whose wife has just ascended to
[826]the Executive Office Building. There were members of the
[828]Labor Branch, and I'm trying to think of that branch of office
[830]that was down the hall.
[832]There was a labor branch. The people in there might know.
[834]There was a lady lawyer named Carol somebody who was very
[835]knowledgeable about what was going on in that area.
[837]Mr. Baron. Knowledeable about Pash's activities?
[839]Mr. Hunt. Well, in the sense that when you have an
[840]adjoining office, you usually pretty much know what the other
[841]fellow is doing. Just in that sense, because her function
[842]in the laber’ branch had nothing to do with Pash, to my
[843]knowledge.
[845]What I'm trying to do here is to give you sort of a
[846]congeries of people alive and dead who would have had contact
[847]knowledge, at the very least, of what Pash's function was.
[849]Mr. Baron. Were each of these units referred to as
[851]PB with a number following it?
[853]TOP SECRET
[856]gsh 19 TOP SECRET 19
[858]1 Operations and OPC, the staff structure emerged as follows:
[860]2 Reporting to the Deputy Director for Plans, i.e. Frank
[862]s | Wisner, whose Chief of Operations then was Richard Helms, this
[864]Phone (Area 202) 544-6606
[866]4 | is the Clandestine Services Organization, There was .our
[867]support staff, the PP staff, the FPoreign Intelligence staff,
[868]6 | the Counter-Intelligence, Counter-Espionage staff, and of
[870]y | course the famous staff “D".
[872]8 Also reporting to the Deputy Director for Plans were all
[874]9 of the geographical divisions, such as Western Europe, Southeast
[876]19 | Europe, Asia, Near East, and so forth.
[877]il Mr. Baron. Now at this point Frank Wisner was DDP,
[879]le Richard Helms was his deputy.
[881]WARD & PAUL
[883]13 Mr. Hunt. Richard Helms was his Chief of Operations.
[884]14 | Mr. Baron. All right. The Chief of the PP staff was --
[885]1s Mr. Hunt. Either Tracy Barnes or John Baker or (ae
[886]16 ;
[887]17 Mr. Baron. And you were located on the South European --
[888]18 Mr. Hunt. Southern Europe Division.
[890]: 19 Mr. Baron. Who headed that division at that point?
[892]: 20 Mr, Hunt. Either John Baker or John Richardson.
[894]: 21 So as you see, I had a line responsibility to the Chief
[896]: 22 of the Southeast Europe Division, as indicated in Exhibit 3.
[898]: 23 At the same time I had a functional responsibility to the
[900]@ a 24 Chief of the PP staff, who was Mr. Barnes or Mr. Baker or
[901]° 25 7. m just as the Chief of PI for the Southeast Europe
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[951]Mr. Hunt. Does this satisfy your request?
[953]Mr. Baron. It does, indeed,
[955]Of all of the individuals that you have just mentioned,
[956]which ones do you know to your own certainty were clearly
[958]knowledgeable of Boris Pash's activities?
[960]Mr. Hunt. musk would be the first one, and
[962]after that I can only speculate. I would have to assume that
[964]knowledge through me. I'm not sure. I have made a list of
[965]other people whom I have not mentioned who conceivably, by
[966]virtue of Personal contact or functional responsibility, might
[967]well have been aware of Pash's true functional responsibility
[968]within the Agency.
[970]Mr. Baron. Before I ask you to tick off that list, let's
[972]; are names that you have given as people who are
[974]make it clear that all of the names, in addition to
[976]likely to have been knowledgeable of Pash's activities because
[978]jof their place in the organization structure at that time.
[980]Mr. Hunt. That's correct, or as I have indicated in some
[981]cases, as with the PP labor branch by virtue of physical
[982]proximity to that office.
[984]Mr. Baron. Okay. Why don't you now just run very briefly
[986]through the names of other people who you think could conceivably
[988]have been knowledgeable of Pash's function?
[990]Mr. Hunt. In some cases I'm going to have to give you thei
[992]TOD GEC BET
[994]Pacquired knowledge of it,. but perhaps he acquired :
[996]‘|
[997]|
[999]is)
[1000]ine)
[1004]TOP SECRET ae
[1006]1 | title designation rather than the name of the individual because
[1008]2 | so much time has passed, I have simply forgotten who it was
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[1012]3 in that particular era.
[1014]Src wenedy who at that time was a member of the German.
[1016]pears, ieee
[1018]fe
[1020]5 | branch of the Western Europe Division, he has since retired
[1022]. . : ee oo , .
[1023]and is running his family'sUegine@pusiness in New York. Certainly
[1025]oO
[1027]the then Chief of Western Europe Division, of which Germany
[1029]8 was a functional part and the Chief of Operations of Western
[1031]g | Europe should know.
[1033]10 I would think that Jim Angleton, who would have had
[1034]direct knowledge and always was the Chief of the CI/CE staff. ‘
[1036]jo | The Chief of base in Geer if in fact Pash conducted any
[1039]activities in that area, certainly the Chief of base: in |
[1040]|
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[1044]13 |
[1047]14 | Beubiyjwould have been knowledgeable about it.
[1049]~ , aa .
[1050]15 :
[1051]16
[1052]17 | Bill Harvy, thathis William Harvy, at that time was Chief of |
[1053]. |
[1054]|
[1056]1a | Operationsgtaus eingtor whether he was simply running the
[1058]ry
[1060]tunnel, but Harvy might well have some knowledge of Pash.
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[1066]a 20 I would certainly assume that when we're talking about :
[1067]8
[1068]2 21 liquidations and that sort of thing that the Agency's overall |
[1069]3
[1070]ul 22 Office of Security somewhere within it must have been involved,
[1071]a) . 1
[1072]3 23 such German Division personnel as might be available today,
[1073]w
[1075]2 é 24 || west German, and I would also suggest that General Cushman might
[1079]25 be knowledgeable for this reason.
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[1086]g
[1087]Bad ib, b. 4B It was about that time that General Cushman was still
[1088]: 2 assigned to the CIA. I could be wrong about that but I seem
[1089]q
[1090]: 5 to have a memory of Cushman being around in those days. He
[1091]4 was then a Colonel. I had associated with him. In fact, we
[1093]5 | had shared an office at one time, but that was several years
[1094]6 | earlier. I would place it about early 1949. But I'm quite
[1095]7 | sure that Cushman was around in that period of time and
[1096]g involved with the PP staff, though what his function was I
[1097]9 don't know.
[1098]lo Now there are alive two close friends of mine who were
[1099]11 | then members of the PP staff, Geom oyan
[1100]2 12 | These are men who in effect established the PP staff for
[1101]@ 13 Frank Wisner and then left to go on to other things, They
[1102]° 14 are both well known writers.
[1103]15 Mr. Baron. Let me just return to one name that you
[1104]16 mentioned and that is William Harvey.
[1105]7 Did you -- first, generally, what was the nature of your
[1106]18 operational relationships to William Harvey after this period?
[1107]: 19 Did you have any?
[1108]é 20 Mr. Hunt. I never had any, no. In fact, I've only seen
[1109]: 21 him once in my life, to the best of my recollection.
[1110]: 29 Mr. Baron. As you may know, William Harvey was tasked
[1111]: 23 in 1961 with setting up an executive action gapability at
[1112]G& : 24 the CIA, tasked originally by Richard Bissell to carry out
[1113]. 25 assassinations if required.
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[1163]becauge we're going to slop over into this other matter that
[1165]| Mr. Liebengood wants to talk about tomorrow.
[1167]Mr. Baron. Well, why don't we hold off then, except
[1168]| that for this one question, which is are you aware of any
[1169]| Involvement that Dr. Gunn had in assassination planning?
[1171]Mr. Hunt. No, I'm not because I'm just not familiar
[1173]ia
[1175]jwith assassination planning. And specifically, for that
[1177]| reason, I'm not aware of any involvement that Dr. Gunn might
[1178]have had.
[1180]Mr. Baron. Let's return now to the point of departure,
[1181]which was your conversation with Colonel Pash and the events
[1182]that led up to it.
[1184]Who were your supervisors that gave you the impression
[1185]that Colonel Pash was prepared to carry out assassinations?
[1187]Mr. Hunt. I wish I could give you a distinct name. I
[1188]think I covered that in an impressionistic way by saying that
[1190]Tracy Barnes and John Baker, who were at different times
[1192]was probably the one who indicated that Pash had such a
[1193]capability.
[1195]I know that I did not get it from
[1197]quite sure that my information did not come from within the
[1199]Southeast Europe Division. It must have come accordingly
[1201]and I would have to say Tracy Barnes or John Baker are the
[1203]TOB GECBET
[1205]sequentially chiefs of the PP staff, it seems to me that Barnes
[1207]from the Political and Psychological staff, the contacts there,
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[1212]8
[1215]3 .
[1217]@ s 1 ||most likely.
[1218]N
[1219]i=)
[1220]3 2 Mr. Baron. And neither of those two men are alive today?
[1221]x
[1222]Z 3 Mr. Hunt. That's right.
[1224]‘ 4 |i Mr. Baron, Did whoever gave you the information about
[1226]5 | Boris Pash indicate to you that there were any other units
[1228]6 in the CIA that could take care of such problems by means of
[1230]assassination?
[1232]8 Mr. Hunt. No. My distinct impression and recollection is
[1233]9 the function, if indeed it existed, and I believed it then
[1235]1c | to have existed as I do today, was centralized or focused in
[1237]11 || Colonel Pash and
[1239]12 Mr. Baron. Now what would have been the formal title
[1241]13% || of the unit. that Colonel Pash and & S were running?
[1243]WARD & PAUL
[1245]14 Mr. Hunt. If it had one, I never knew it.
[1247]15 | Mr. Baron. Can you add any other detail to the record
[1249]16 | On your talk with Colonel Pash and his reaction to your
[1251]17 | request that he consider on a general level the planning of
[1253]1g || an assassination of a suspected double agent?
[1255]19 Mr. Hunt. Well, as I recall it, my conversation with him
[1257]20 || was a relatively brief one. I stepped in the door, met him,
[1259]21 aicasUS), who I knew briefly, or at least knew him
[1261]22 || by sight, and I sat down and I said, we have this problem in
[1263]23 | the Albanian branch. We may need somebody liquidated in
[1267]410 First Street, S.£., Washington, D.C. 20003
[1269]94 | Western Germany. Can you handle it if that day comes, or if
[1271]95 it comes to that?
[1273]so
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[1313]And he seemed a little startled. I have already indicated
[1314]that. What I'm trying to do now is to refine my thoughts more
[1315]than I did previously when we were taking sort of a wide
[1316]swipe at the canvas.
[1318]Colonel Pash indicated or said to me that it was a matter
[1319]that would have to be approved by higher authority and as
[1320]a relatively low ranking officer in those days, I thought he
[1321]was probably referring to Frank Wisner. And indeed, he may
[1322]have. It never got pushed up to Frank Wisner's level because
[1323]there no direct approach or a request for such approval
[1324]was ever made,
[1326]I left with the impression that Colonel Pash was glad
[1327]that he wasn't going to have any business for me or that he
[1329]had successfully deflected whatever approach I might be making
[1331]to him because it would give him and (aimee)
[1332]opportunity to drink more coffee and to draw their salaries
[1333]from the Agency while affecting to do a job that they were
[1334]perhaps not equipped to do,
[1336]Now again, that impression I had when I left him was at
[1337]variance with what I had heard before I came in, where I heard
[1338]he and Gees or he at least had been active in West Germany
[1339]in wet affairs, particularly kidnappings and that sort of
[1340]thing.
[1342]Mr, Baron. And you carried into his office the impression
[1344]that Colonel Pash was a man who could carry off an assassination
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[1353]1 Mr. Hunt. No.
[1354]2 Mr. Baron. Did you ever discuss this matter with anyone
[1356]3 other than Colonel Pash?
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[1360]j 4} Mr. Hunt. In that context?
[1361]|
[1362]5 | Mr. Baron. In the context of assassinations or kidnapping.
[1364]6 | Mr. Hunt. Well, I wasn't involved in plotting or planning
[1365]|
[1366]i
[1368]? any kidnappings. Again, I would suggest that I might very
[1370]g |) well have gone back rey 8 LENE Who was the most interested
[1372]fe) individual, because he was responsible at the branch level
[1374]10
[1376]11
[1378]12 || the background of that, the rubric under which I became
[1380]1z | interested in the Albanian problem in the first place, and
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[1384]14 | then having talked to Pash, it would have been only natural
[1386]15 | for me to have said to Tire look, I've talked with Pash
[1388]16 | and he says it will have to be approved by higher authority.
[1390]17 || New have you gotten, we don't have a body yet, but when you
[1392]ig | get a name to put on the target, at that point you will have to
[1393]19 | carry the ball and take it on up the line.
[1395]20 Mr, Baron, And you never heard anything further about it?
[1396]21 Mr. Hunt. No, probably because I went within, I think,
[1398]29 || a comparatively few weeks off to the Guatemala operation.
[1400]23 Mr. Baron. Did anyone ever mention it to you, say did
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[1406]ever mention it to you again?
[1408]No. I next saw (REceeraets
[1410]25 > inggeaeieeye in
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[1456]it would be about '57 or '58, and I had dinner in his home in.
[1458]Story. I don't think at the first level when I began recalling
[1460]TOP SECRET 40
[1462]Taipei, and I'm quite sure I said at that time, whatever
[1463]happened to Boris Pash, or what do you hear from Boris?
[1464]Now he was a rather unusual individual to say the least,
[1465]and I don't think WER to1a me that he was dead. I don't
[1466]know who told me that Boris, that Pash died, but whatever
[1468]he said, it was, well, he was okay the last time I saw him
[1470]and that was the last time we ever discussed it.
[1472]Mr. Baron. And you didn't discuss this request?
[1474]Mr. Hunt. No.
[1476]Mr. Baron. Where did you receive the impression that
[1477]Colonel Pash was dead?
[1479]Mr. Hunt. I guess when, either from reading the Lawrence
[1481]and Oppenheimer book or from the newspapers, from the Crewdson
[1483]the story, I don't think I was aware that Boris Pash was
[1484]dead,
[1486]Mr. Baron, In the Crewdsonstory there is an allusion
[1487]to the fact that Colonel Pash is probably dead,
[1489]Are you saying that that came from Crewdson's .research
[1490]and not from yourself?
[1492]Mr. Hunt. Oh, yes, that came from Crewdson's research, not |
[1494]mine.
[1495]Mr. Baron. This is more than a minor note on the record,
[1497]Colonel Bash is not dead,
[1499]Mr, Hunt. Oh, good, I thought he was dead.
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[1549]my assumption at that time was that authorization by Frank
[1551]Wisner would have been all that would have been required to
[1553]proceed with the project had it ever materialized. That is
[1555]i, the Chief of the Clandestine Services,
[1557]Now whether Frank would have been required to go to
[1559]Allen Dulles, I rather doubt it. I think it is something that
[1561]| he would have been able to authorize himself,
[1563]Mr. Baron. All right. Let me ask you now before we get
[1565]into Colonel Pash's version of the story, which we will,
[1567]here?
[1569]So as not to hold anything back from you, Colonel Pash
[1570]has said that the time period has to be off because he
[1571]retired from the Agency, or left the Agency in probably late
[1572]‘Sl. It's possible that it went into 1952. But he wasn't
[1573]with the Agency in any capacity after '52. And in fact, his
[1574]status was that of a military officer who had been detailed
[1575]to the Agency from approximately 1948 to '52,
[1577]Now does that affect your recollection in any way of the
[1578]period '54 to '55 as the period when your conversation with
[1579]Boris Pash took place?
[1581]Mr. Hunt. Well, from 1950 to 1953, I was in Mexicofme
[1583]Mr. Baron. And where were you from the time that you
[1585]joined the Agency until you went to Mexico?
[1587]TOP GECBET
[1589]whether it is possible that you are confusing the time periods
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[1626]Mr. Hunt. I was a member of the PP staff.
[1628]Mr. Baron. Is it possible that your conversation with
[1629]Boris Pash about the assassination of a suspected double agent
[1630]took place in that time period?
[1632]Mr. Hunt. I would have to say it's possible, yes.
[1634]Mr. Baron. Would you have been dealing with East
[1635]European problems or --
[1637]Mr. Hunt. No, I was dealing with West European problems.
[1639]Mr. Baron. I'm sorry. Would you have been dealing with
[1640]a problem like this one, a problem with a suspected Albanian
[1641]double agent in West Germany during that time period?
[1643]Mr. Hunt. I can't recall having done so. The West
[1644]European Division had its own PP staff officer and he would
[1645]have been the one to take it up, whereas my recollection is
[1646]that this was generated at a later time when I was in the
[1647]Southeast European Division and had a direct reason to become
[1648]interested in the matter.
[1650]I have to say that it is possible, but I would say maybe
[1651]5 percent possible.
[1653]Mr. Baron. And you accord so small a possibility to
[1654]the hypothesis that you actually talked to Pash about this
[1655]problem in '49 or '50 because you were not involved in
[1656]operations in West Germany at that point.
[1658]Mr. Hunt. No, I was not.
[1660]Mr. Baron. And
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[1671]g :
[1673]z :
[1674]® a 1 point?
[1675]3 2 Mr. Hunt. No, no. He was not.
[1677]3 3 Mr. Baron. Where weré you in '49 and '50 physically?
[1678]4 || Mr. Hunt. Physically I was in the IRK building with the
[1680]5 | PP staff and my direct supervisor at that time was Noe Brow sy
[1681]6 || who I have mentioned earlier. | ; |
[1682]” Mr. Baron. Did you travel to West Germany during that
[1684]8 | period of time?
[1686]9 Mr. Hunt. No, I did not,
[1688]10 Mr. Baron. In the later period, '50, '54, and '55, that
[1690]11 || you were discussing, did you travel often to West Germany?
[1692]ad
[1693]< 12 Mr. Hunt. No.
[1695]z 13 Mr. Baron. You were stationed in Washington?.
[1696]3
[1697]14 Mr. Hunt. I was stationed in Washington and from the
[1699]15 period after I left Mexico, which was in, I think, March of '54
[1700]16 || for about the ensuing year when I left for the Guatemala project,
[1701]17 | I was in Washington or the SE Europe Division. So I had
[1703]1g || that continuous almost year there.
[1705]‘19 Mr. Baron. Is there anything else that adds to your
[1707]99 || sense of the probabilities that this conversation took place
[1708]21 in '54 and '55?
[1710]22 Mr. Hunt. No. My restructuring is as I have given it
[1712]93 || to you, my recollections.
[1714]24 Mr, Baron, Okay. Let me ask you the same question in
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[1771]political affairs, and his was the 7th, which had less well
[1773]defined functions. And BIOMASS was a member of that unit.
[1775]Do you recall any dealings that you had in your earliest
[1777])
[1778]1
[1780]|| period of service with the. CIA with PB7, now that I've refreshed’
[1782]your recollection?
[1783]Mr. Hunt. Not as such, no. Does Colonel Pash define
[1784]what his functions were in the PB7?
[1786]Mr. Baron. Before I answer that one, let me ask you one,
[1788]Mr. Hunt. I've been trying to develop a helpful colloquy
[1789]here.
[1791]Mr. Baron. This is very helpful.
[1793]Do you recall any charters that any of those planning
[1795]branches had?
[1797]Mr. Hunt. At this juncture, no. I was only aware that,
[1799]I think mine was PB2. This is when I first went in in 1949
[1801]or 1950, I think that was (manus
[1803]Mr. Baron. Colonel Pash described the charter of PB7
[1804]as giving PB7 responsibility for such other functions as the
[1805]six other units dian't perform.
[1807]Doea that square with your recollection of what he was
[1808]doing in those early days?
[1810]Mr. Hunt. Well, you see, I don't associate Colonel Pash
[1811]with the very early days. I associate him with a later period,
[1812]about three years or five years later.
[1814]Mr, Baron. Do you have any specific recollection of Colonel
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[1822]3
[1824]2 ;
[1825]@ a 1 | Pash's activities in the years 1949 to 1952? .
[1827]3
[1829]é 2 Mr. Hunt. Not at all, no. My only other collateral
[1831]L
[1833]5 3 recollection is that Colonel Pash was said to have come to us.
[1834]‘ 4 | He was recently assigned in Germany and he had come to us
[1836]5 | from there. That was all that I knew.
[1838]6 Mr.
[1840]; who has also testified this
[1841]9 past week on this subject, said that his recollection of the
[1842]8 charter of PB7 was that it gave PB7 responsibility for
[1844]9 assassinations, kidnappings and such other functions as higher -
[1846]190 || authority may assign or as were not being performed by other
[1847]11 | units.
[1848]12 Does that square with the impression that you were given
[1850]13 | by your superiors of the functions of Colonel Pash's unit?
[1852]WARD & PAWEL
[1854]14 Mr. Hunt. Yes. I didn't even know that g@ia@ijwas
[1856]15 | still alive. So @Wf@ilej then supports my functional recollection,
[1857]16 || let's say. |
[1859]7 Mr. Baron. Let's introduce as Exhibit 6 an article in
[1861]18 the New York Times dated January 8th, 1976, headed "Retired
[1863]19 || Colonel Denies Heading CIA Unit for Assassinations."
[1865]3
[1866]3
[1867]0
[1868]° 20 (The document referred to was
[1869]E 21 marked for identification as
[1870]z
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[1918]| '54 and '55 and that’s the only specific function that I can !
[1920]TOP SECRET 53
[1922]with real, certainty that no such conversation took place and
[1923]that even in terms of exploring the possibility of assassination
[1924]planning or inquiring into the capability for assassination
[1926]' planning, he maintains that assassinations were never raised
[1927]with him, what do you then have to say about his
[1929]| testimony?.
[1931]Mr. Hunt. I would have to say that his perceptions and
[1933]mine were at variance and that we were engaged in some sort
[1935]of an Aesopian dialogue in which neither of us understood
[1937]what the other was saying. ;
[1938]I had no other reason to approach him. I had never heard
[1939]of the man except in that particular context.
[1941]Mr Baron. And there was no other reason for them
[1943]discussing capabilities for an assassination?
[1945].Mr. Hunt. That.'s correct.
[1947]Mr. Baron. Were you aware of any specific function that
[1948]Colonel Pash performed with the CIA after the date of 1952?
[1950]Mr. Hunt. Well, my recollection is that I saw him in
[1952]relate him to.
[1954]Mr. Baron. Now you have drawn a chart of the PP staff,
[1956]Exhibit 4, that locates Colonel Pash and &geeWictieye on the
[1957]PP staff.
[1959]Is it possible that they served on the PP staff before the
[1961]date the Colonel Pash gives as his retirement date from the
[1964]QQ
[1965]2]
[1966]on
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[2000]CIA, which is sometime in '52?
[2002]Mr. Hunt. Is it possible? Yes, I beliéve it's possible
[2004]because #Xauu ifaeanqase was one of the original people in OPC.
[2005]Mr. Baron. At what point did OPC Merge or was it
[2007]transformed?
[2009]. Mr. Hunt. Well, it merged with OSO, I think, in 1953
[2011]Cerypn Mexico in '53, and
[2012]I came out of there in, I think, March of '54, I left Mexico.
[2013]By that time the merger had taken place.
[2014]Mr. Baron. So is it possible that this chart could have
[2015]been a chart of the PP staff as it operated under the OPC
[2017]structure, the 453?
[2019]14 i Mr. Hunt. Yes. In fact, I don't think that there was
[2021]any particular change from the PB to the PP era.
[2023]Mr. Baron, The reason for my own confusion here is that
[2025]Colonel Pash and (RGreM@Waratesa, have both said that at the
[2027]point when OPC was merged, or at some point shortly thereafter,
[2029]PB7 was abolished and they don't know what became of it.
[2030]They say the functions that these seven planning branches
[2031]performed were scrambled and reorganized and they were never
[2032]sure exactly who carried through the functions that had
[2033]previously been assigned to PB7.
[2035]Mr. Hunt. Well, I never heard any more about it.
[2037]Just for perhaps a bit more clarification, the labor
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[2073]unit or branch as it appeared in the PP staff following the
[2074]merger, that had the same function and the same personnel as
[2076]let's say whatever PB enumerated or numerical designations.
[2078]So it's just a question of terminology. I can see that for
[2079]chronological purposes you are interested in how I recall it,
[2081]whether I recall it by a PB numercial designation or by --
[2083]But since I never knew what the Pash —(#5a0aSe unit was designated,
[2085]whether it was designated by a word or by a number, it
[2086]doesn't help me at all. And for that reason I can't be
[2087]of more assistance to you.
[2088]Just go see Colonel Pash. He's in such and such an office |
[2089]down there.
[2091]Mr. Baron. Off the record for a second.
[2093](Discussion off the record)
[2095]Mr. Baron. For the record now, while we were off the
[2096]record we agreed to continue this session a while to get into
[2097]one or two other areas. But I have a couple of questions to
[2098]tag on to the end of this one.
[2100]First of all, in his testimony to the
[2102]Committee, said that he had no recollection of a conversation
[2103]with you where he was present, and you discussed assassination
[2104]of a double agent, or the planning for such a mission with
[2105]Colonel Pash and himself.
[2107]Do you, even having heard his testimony, still have a
[2109]clear recollection that ¢ was present when you
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[2117]e 1 ll had this conversation?
[2119]2 ; Mr. Hunt. I do, because to the best of my knowledge and
[2121]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2123]3 | belief, it was the first time that I had met {ugeule JUS easels
[2124]4 | That is, I had seen him in the corridors, but it was the
[2125]5 | first time that I was able to append a name to the particular
[2127]6 individual who I had come to recognize visually.
[2129]ny | My memory is further jogged in this respect, that $3
[2131]8 | having identified me as a member of the SE division of the
[2133]g staff, at a later time but not much later, talked to me about
[2134]10 || the possibility of his being assigned to the SE division.
[2136]11 | And my recollection of the conversation is that GsBie} told
[2138]12 || me that he was a great friend Teche meteopolitad of ACERS,
[2140]13 || and that this friendship should be put to use for the Agency's
[2142]WARD & PAUL
[2144]14 | benefit, and it could be best done by his being transferred
[2145]15 | to SE division for ultimate assignment to Athens.
[2147]16 Mr. Baron. Do you have from anything in your experience
[2148]17 | in the CIA any personal animosity toward Colonel Pash or
[2150]Baas.
[2152]19 Mr. Hunt. On the contrary. I've always regarded myself
[2154]18 | ase
[2156]20 | as a friend of NGRSM RTA TES, and I only had one contact
[2157]21 | with Boris Pash. And I have no feeling about him one way
[2158]29 || or the other except that in his recent book I read about his
[2160]23 involvement in the Manhattan Project and I certainly admired
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[2164]24 || hs contribution to national security in that era.
[2166]ig)
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[2169]A
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[2173], b. 3B Mr. Baron. In gael
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[2177]gua} testimony, he gave us an
[2180]gen 57° TOP SECRET 57
[2182]i
[2184]i
[2187]1 | account of an incident when he was stationed at Cee wand he saic
[2189]that he -
[2190]o | had written a cable to CIA headquarters outlining a propaganda |
[2192]i
[2194]Phone (Area 202) 5446000
[2196]3 {| program because he was involved in propaganda operations at
[2198]4 | that point. And he said, unbeknownst to him, someone else
[2200]5 | in his station with the approval of the Chief of Station
[2202]6 attached an extra paragraph to this cable which suggested the
[2203]7 assassination of Chou En Lai in preparation for the Bandoeng
[2204]g | Conference where Chou En Lai was supposed to be an important
[2206]g | spokesman on behalf of many Asian nations.
[2208]iianuak recounted the incident,
[2210]10 And the way that G23
[2211]11 | he knew nothing about the paragraph that had been attached to
[2213]12 | his cable until the reply came back very strongly in the
[2215]WARD & PAUL
[2217]13 | negative and eventually, a high ranking CIA official came out
[2219]14 adie Neato reprimand everyone involved in the incident for
[2221]a
[2223]15 || suggesting assassination.
[2224]16 Do you have any recollection of that incident?
[2225]17 Mr. Hunt. No, I have no knowledge. What year does
[2227]ig | @eeilebrefer to because I was in Regcauancen
[2229]yyin Tokyo from, oh, about ‘55 to
[2231]19
[2233]'56 or 15724
[2235]20 And I would have seen most of the traffic that
[2237]21 | came out of Wasinour in that period of time. But I don't know
[2239]o9 | if -- I know that MBit stayed on i ‘ Ralpel uch after my
[2241]erg
[2243]23 time in the Far East.
[2246]oO
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[2267].
[2268]3
[2270]i
[2271]i=)
[2275]24 I don't know when the Bandoeng Conference took place. I
[2277]25 remember it, of course, but I don't remember the year.
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[2350]TOP SECRET | 38
[2352]Mr. Baron. It appears to me that the Bandoeng Conference
[2354]took vlace, according to Wsetestimony, in 1955
[2356]and that the incident he was describing was either in [55 or
[2357]late in ‘54.
[2359]Mr. Hunt. I had no recollection of it whatever.
[2361]is not suggesting that is some basis for personal animosity,
[2362]I trust.
[2364]Mr. Baron. No. He did say, though, that you might have
[2365]had knowledge of that suggestion, although he wasn't sure of .
[2366]it. He said you were involved at that time in a place where
[2367]you might have seen cable traffic like that.
[2369]Mr. Hunt. That's quite right, but I never saw that
[2370]traffic.
[2372]Mr. Baron. Let me pick up one last general question for
[2373]the moment at least on assassinations.
[2375]Do you have any knowledge of even the consideration of
[2376]assassinations at high levels of the American governemnt?
[2378]In other words, we have been using the term higher
[2379]authority and I would like to use it for the moment now to
[2380]refer to the level of the per or the National Security Council,
[2381]the President, his close White House advisors, Cabinet
[2382]officials, and the DCI.
[2384]Do .you have any knowledge of any people at that level
[2385]seriously considering assassination planning?
[2387]Mr. Hunt. No, none. I think you have to bear in mind
[2389]HY 50955 Docld:3 booare Page 32 TOP SECRET
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[2428]22
[2430]23
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[2434]29
[2436]TOP SECRET | 60
[2438]to me and I was surprised when on invasion day Castro was
[2439]alive. I now realize from testimony that Harvey and others
[2440]have given that the matter had been discussed long before my
[2441]arrival on the scene and it was in hand one way or the other.
[2443]Mr. Baron. When was your arrival on the scene?
[2445]Mr. Hunt. Spring of 1960. I transferred up, I actually
[2446]made my trip to Havana the summer of 1960, and then we had
[2447]the Bay of Pigs invasion the following April.of ‘61.
[2449]Mr. Baron. Now it is my own recollection of our
[2450]assassination report that no action was taken to carry out
[2451]an assassination plan against Castro as early as the spring
[2452]of 1960,
[2454]Did something --
[2456]Mr. Hunt. No. I've giving you, I guess, a bureaucratic
[2458]answer. I was officially transferred back to Washington in
[2460]the spring of 1960 and I took some leave en route in Spain
[2463]Eventually I mad@ my way back to Washington in the spring
[2465]and early summer. and got on the scene within a few days of
[2467]my actually reporting-into’ the’ project managers, i.es, Bissell
[2469]and Barnes, who decided I would go down to Havana for a period
[2471]of time, and I went down for about a week and came back, and
[2473]by that time we were talking maybe July or so.
[2475]Mr, Baron. July of '60?
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[2510]17:
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[2520]22
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[2526]25
[2528]TOP SECRET 62
[2530]Mr. Hunt. That's correct.
[2532]Mr. Baron. Before we move away from Cuban operations,
[2534]let me show you one cable that we have which is fro F Phe
[2536]and it appears to be to CIA headquarters because it is marked
[2538]| IN 75100, and it is dated September 16, 1964 in handwriting
[2540]that was put on the copy that we have by the Agency.
[2542]This is not the original copy of the cable but it appears
[2543]to be a copy that was deleted and paraphrased for the purposes
[2544]of providing it to the Committee in the early days of our
[2545]inquiry.
[2547]We will mark this as Exhibit 7.
[2549](The document referred to was
[2550]marked for identification as
[2552]Hunt Exhibit No. 7)
[2554]DocId:32202418 Page 34 THAD GEC DET
[2556]gsh 64
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[2574]22
[2576]235
[2578]24
[2582]| communications were handled independently between myself and
[2584]atalve
[2587]TOP SECRET 64
[2589]Mr. Hunt. That can't conceivably have been a reference to
[2591]me. H
[2593]Mr. Baron. Why is that?
[2595]Mr, Hunt. Because I had not been involved in Cuban
[2597]| activities for more than three years at that time. I was
[2599]| purposely isolated from all Cuban activities after the Bay
[2601]of Pigs.
[2603]Mr. Baron. You said you did operate out of Madrid for a
[2604]period of time but it was later than September of '64?
[2606]Mr. Hunt, No, Let me clarify that.
[2608]I was sent to Madrid in either '64 or '65. I can't
[2610]recall which, and I stayed there less than a year.
[2612]2
[2614]Tom Karramessines, who was then Deputy Director for Plans.
[2615]This was a project that had been laid on by Dick Helms.
[2617]Tihed mo, ccatlen comtacs as. and
[2619]eo. the station,
[2621]hates
[2623]and I had no Cuban activities of any kind.
[2625]Mr. Baron, And did you have any knowledge of a relationship,
[2626]to a plan to assassinate Castro, supposedly to take place
[2628]during a university ceremony?
[2630]Mr. Hunt. No.
[2631]Mr. Baron. Let's move on now to an entirely different
[2633]area, and I will ask you to begin by describing your general
[2635]role in the middle of the 1960s on the CA staff with regard to
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[2654]15
[2655]16
[2656]1?
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[2658]19
[2659]20
[2660]21
[2661]22
[2662]23
[2663]24
[2665]25
[2669]I
[2670]| Operations Division, although it was never so-called. :
[2672]TOP SECRET on
[2674]press publications or press placements or any responsibilities
[2675]you may have had for media relations.
[2676]Mr. Hunt. After Allen Dulles's resignation and retirement, |
[2678]I was assigned for about a period of a week to the CA staff
[2680]and I then transferred to the newly set up Domestic Operations
[2682]Division under Tracy Barnes, which was really the Commercial
[2683]I was the first Chief of Covert Action for the Domestic
[2684]Operations Division and we inherited as a new division a number
[2686]of projects that had been running for a period of time, that
[2688]had been run by the commercial staff of the Agency and by a
[2690]number of the geographic divisions.
[2692]The purpose of turning these ongoing projects over to the
[2693]Domestic Operations Division was to centralize contacts with
[2694]publishers in the United States for the benefit of geographic
[2696]divisions such as the Asian or Far East Division which might
[2698]i on)
[2700]esilagetor a particular purpose. :
[2702]want a book published ony
[2704]They would come to Tracy Barnes with a particular request.
[2706]And I should say that the relationship with ey Peddariels
[2708]a period of time and I think they were managed by Cord Myer
[2710]International Division, if I'm nat mistaken, or possibly the
[2712]CA staff. But what we received were ongoing operations. We
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[2718]Prone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2721]5 | I had no personal media contacts with American magazines
[2722]6 or newspapers, if that is the thrust of your question.
[2724]7 | Mr. Baron. Actually, I'm interested in this whole area,
[2725]g | both contacts with specific reporters or media people dome-
[2727]9 stically or contacts with publishing houses or contacts abroad
[2728]10 ‘in the publishing field. i
[2729]ll Mr. Hunt. Well, I've given you the names of the publishing
[2730]12 || houses that we had contact with. I did on one occasion meet
[2732]13 and I can't recall the purpose of it, it was a very large
[2734]WARD & PAUL
[2736]14 textbook publishing house and their main offices were in
[2738]15 || New Jersey. If I had an annual for publishers, I could pull
[2739]16 it out.
[2740]Y
[2742]17 But beside from that publishing house, we never did any
[2744]18 business with them. I don't recall of any publishing houses
[2746]: 19 beyondii iG) that is trade publishers, that
[2747]: 20 || ¥e dealt with.
[2748]i 2] We had our own press agency, fea J which I
[2749]: 22 imagine you're quite familiar with.
[2750]i 23 Mr. Hunt. Can you describe the standard mode of
[2751]© : 24 operating with these various publishing outlets?
[2753]. 25 In other words, how would you have supplied them with
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[2778]16
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[2781]19
[2782]20
[2783]al
[2784]22
[2785]23
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[2788]25
[2790]TOP SECRET 67
[2792]material? Would you urge them to publish a manuscript they
[2794]already had from another source? Would you give them a
[2796]manuscript that CIA personnel had written under a pseudonym?
[2797]Mr, Hunt. I don't think that ever took place, to my
[2799]knowledge.
[2801]What I recall is meeting with Tracy Barnes
[2803]| and me or individually, either in Washington or New York during
[2805]this period and saying I have a great book I would love to
[2806]publish, but it's not economically feasible, and I think it
[2807]would be good for you people abroad for the following reasons.
[2808]And we might come up with the differential or we might not.
[2810]I don't recall any Agency-created manuscripts that were
[2812]sent to Reseaem@or for that matter, any other publisher.
[2814]I recall we had a lot of accounting problems with
[2815]and finally we got really almost bogged down in arguments
[2816]about back copies. It was a little on the nightmarish side.
[2817]We did turn out some good books, but I couldn't give you a
[2818]title at this point. But I'm sure that they are a matter of
[2819]record within the Agency.
[2821]Mr, Baron. What was the nightmarish aspect of it?
[2823]Mr. Hunt, Well, apparently, before the project came under
[2824]DOD, it had been handled on a very freewheeling basis by the
[2826]previous project managers. %% age ces everything he wanted
[2828]from the Agency in terms of subsidy money and expense money
[2830]and publicity money and that sort of thing and when we took '
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[2840]TOP SECRET 68
[2842]i it over it was brought under -- I hesitate to use the term }
[2843]2 professional management, but I do so in a qualified sense in |
[2845]= that I was the only one, I guess, who knew anything about the
[2847]Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2849]i publishing industry, who had ever been connected with the
[2851]5 project. So I knew a little about it. |
[2852]6 And at that time, with the help of our own commercial
[2854]7 people within the Division, our accountants and auditors and
[2856]8 so forth determined that there were a number of aspects of
[2858]our fiduciary relationship with the @egeger™company that would
[2860]9 1
[2861]10 bear greater investigation.
[2862]ll So the relationship from a freewheeling one prior to our |
[2863]; e | ‘Lo DOD managerial take-over, it became from a freewheeling thing,
[2864]i3 | it became sort of an unpleasant continuous argument about
[2865]° 14 dollars and cents, rather than functional matters. | |
[2866]15 Mr. Baron. Out of what funds at the CIA did these monies
[2867]ie | come from that we were giving to [igeesen |
[2868]17 Mr. Hunt. I wouldn't have any idea, project money. |
[2869]18 Mr. Baron. Who signed off on the project money? |
[2870]3 19 Mr. Hunt. Well, it would depend on how much it cost.
[2871]: 20 I think that Karamessines could sign off up to $50,000 and ,
[2872]i 21 | beyond that it had to be signed off on by Helms, I think. That!s
[2873]: 22 my best recollection. And I don't know -- as annual review |
[2874]3 23 was conducted, and of course the division chief had to approve
[2875]a
[2876]® : it. . .
[2877]eg 24
[2878]. 95 Mr. Baron. Did the operation involve companies other than
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[2883]1 the ones you've mentioned? In other words, supplying funds
[2884]2 to companies other than the ones you've already mentioned?
[2886]Mr. Hunt. I don't know of any. None that I knew of.
[2888]Gl
[2890]Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2894]| I would be very surprised if a memorandum showed up saying
[2896]5 | that we were dealing with Random House, for example. I just
[2898]6 don't recall now.
[2900]7 i Mr. Baron. Was there any other aspect to your liaison
[2902]8 | with these publishing houses other than their seeking funds
[2904]9 | to publish books that you were interested in having published?
[2905]LO Mr. Hunt. Only this, that the USIA was, I think, finally
[2907]11 || brought into a formal relationship with DOD, at least my
[2909]12 | part of it, and the head of the book division at USIA and I
[2911]13 would meet from time to time and he would indicate that he had
[2913]WARD & PAUL
[2915]14 | a good one that we really ought to do rather than USIA and
[2917]15 | vice versa. And he knew fully of the (imacgens
[2919]16 Mr. Baron. Can you describe the process that you would
[2920]17 | go through to ensure the publication of a book that the CIA
[2921]1g | was interested in having published? An example that I was
[2923]g 19 given by somebody on our staff who has been looking into this
[2925]: 290 | was books written by or ghosted for Chinese (Seeeene ny
[2927]: 21 | Mr. Hunt. As I recall it, the Chinese branch sort of
[2929]rf 20 ran a parallel operation. I don't recaall their coming
[2931]: 23 through us. I don't recall a: Pbook when I was in
[2933]@ é 24 that particular job. What I do recall is, I remember the
[2934]. 25 Near East Branch brining to our attention a book that they
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[2941]1 would like to have fijmxegerypublish, and it had to do with the
[2943]8
[2944]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[2946]re)
[2947]oO
[2948]|
[2949]‘ 4 ; or his principal assistant, and he would give an indication
[2950]5 | of what he thought the marketability was. And at that point --:
[2952]6 | well, in this instance, we got the funds from the Near East
[2954]7 Division. When it came down to that, why should DOD, who had
[2956]8 no interest in the maispute, provide money for
[2957]g that particular piece of propaganda. So the money would be :
[2958]10 || transferred somehow from the Near East Division's allocation. |
[2960]i
[2962]11 || It would be their project, but we would be the managers of it
[2964]12 || when it got down to the point of dealing face to face with
[2966]13 fon the matter. My office would keep the division
[2968]WARD & PAUL
[2972]14 apprised of the project, when publication could be expected,
[2974]15 and so forth.
[2976]16 Mr. Baron. Were there any other CIA publishing proprietarles
[2977]~ a
[2979]7 than the two you have PCCM Riicd Pacific and Continental?
[2981]Mr. Hunt. That I had personal knowledge of within the i
[2983]18
[2985]: 19 Domestic Operations Division, no.
[2987]: 20 Mr. Baron. You qualified that by saying within the
[2991]i 21) Domestic Operations Division. Were there others?
[2993]i 22 Mr. Hunt. Because the international operations or Inter-
[2995]: 23 national Organizational Division under Cord Myer, ran quite a few
[2996]os) 7 24 things in conjunction with the Congress for Cultural Freedom,
[2998]° 25 for example. Radio Free Europe, those things that went on.
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[3051]Mr. Baron. Did CIA do ghostwriting for non-CIA publi-
[3052]| cations? |
[3053]| Mr. Hunt. I ghosted a couple of -- I'm very reluctant
[3054]to go into this, although I have discussed it with John
[3055]|
[3056]| Crowdson. But this is another one of those difficult areas
[3057]i
[3058]where it's very hard for me to prove.
[3060]There came a time in the spring of, I think it was the
[3061]spring of about 1969, when the Soviet Russia bivision asked
[3063]me if EI could cause to have published something on the --
[3065]by this time I was no longer with the Domestic Operation
[3067]Division. I was with Western Europe -- on the increasing use
[3068]by the QQBNSGe SC Magucumem coosiacge d things like that,
[3070]and Christ, I hope this doesn't get out.
[3072]i And so I went to Helms. Howard Osborne was then Chief
[3074]of the Division, as I recall. He was late Director of
[3076]Security, and this had been staffed out. And I prepared the
[3078]It was just information which was supplied which he wrote
[3080]somewhat in his own style, and there was a second article which
[3082]appeared a month or two months later, and this was done by
[3083]Dick Helms.
[3085]Mr. Baron. Also under Ly by line?
[3087]Mr. Hunt. Yes. You could understand the difficulties
[3089]TOP SECRET
[3091]involved here and I don't need any more enemies. I have plenty.
[3093]t
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[3099]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3101]WARD & PAUL
[3103]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3105]HW 50955
[3107]10
[3109]Ll
[3111]12
[3113]13
[3115]14
[3117]15
[3119]16
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[3141]TOP SECRET
[3143]70
[3145]Now that is my own personal contribution to that sort of
[3146]thing. But I can't think of anything else that was done.
[3148]Mr. Baron. By other people? Was it a general practice
[3149]to supply either prefabricated articles or the material for
[3151]articles to favorable press contacts in this country?
[3155]Mr. Hunt. Well, we know about the Us Wige@st gelele a
[3157]oe ee ee os
[3159]mendes
[3161]and that was done by the SR Division.
[3162]You are aware of that, aren't you?
[3163]Now in that case, you see, the SR reached out on its own.
[3165]Penkoski\ Papers was another example. We had nothing to do
[3167]with that in DOD. That was done, again, by SR division. And
[3168]I can understand why.
[3169]But basically, in answer to your question, I have given
[3171]you everything that I have personal knowledge of.
[3173]Mr. Baron. When you made the arrangement withitee
[3175]Mr. Hunt. I made no arrangement with him.
[3177]Mr. Baron. Who handled liaison with him?
[3179]Mr. Hunt. Dick Helms.
[3181]Mr. Baron. And was that a one-on-one arrangement or
[3182]were there other people knowledgeable?
[3184]Mr. Hunt. I believe it was a one-on-one, old school tie
[3186]arrangement.
[3188]TOP SECRET
[3190]which was largely a cooperative venture with the Agency,
[3192]Mr. Baron, Was there any list kept at the CIA of favorabl@
[3194]gsh 72
[3196]Phone (Area 202) 544-6060
[3198]because if we were doing a book, for example, on
[3200]Communism, who was the target?
[3202]TOP SECRET
[3204]erorganization. I felt that a strict
[3206]1
[3208]2 || construction of the CIA charter made the project quite suspect
[3209]| Tt would have been highly
[3210]|
[3211]|
[3212]1
[3214]| inappropriate for United States citizens to be the target
[3216]6 | of the particular book, and we did a hell of a good book on
[3218]‘Communism.
[3220]End Tape 2Bg || recall the title.
[3222]WARD & PAUL
[3224]410 First Street, S.£., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[3226]HW 50955
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[3262]Docld: shosax Page 44
[3264]It became about this thick.
[3266]TOP SECRET
[3268]I can't
[3271]t. #3 TOP SECRET
[3273]1/10 Hunt 73
[3274]Harrisgsmnl
[3278]1 If your targets are foreign, then where are they? They
[3280]Phone (Area 202) 544-60
[3282]5 nublished, in: India, for example, where Fnglish is a lingua franca,
[3283]6 then you have some basic problems. And I think the way this
[3285]7 was rationalized by the project review board that looked over i
[3287]{pies
[3289]10 formed, which was true, but how much of the @g
[3291]oS chee
[3295]le
[3297]13
[3299]WARD & PAUL
[3301]14
[3303]15 || Agency was a client, The mere fact that the project was
[3305]16 || rooted in the United States gave it sort of a credibility
[3307]17 lustre abroad in that particular era. If it came out of
[3309]18 | Washington then it was probably okay.
[3311]19 But I - Sioneinencaum [occsspnad no domestic U.S. papers
[3313]20 | as clients. What I'm trying to get at’ is that DOD handled
[3315]21 || operations which were based domestically in the United States,
[3316]2° || the commercial operations, and this includes proprietary
[3318]23 || airlines and things like that, whose ultimate target was
[3322]24 || abroad. The principal target or even a tangential target was
[3324]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, O.C. 20003
[3326]25 not the United States citizen.
[3328]HY 50955 Docld: 32202416 Page 45 - TOP SECRET
[3330]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3332]WARD & PAUL
[3334]410 First Street, 5.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3336]HW 50955
[3338]10
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[3358]20
[3360]el
[3362]22
[3364]23
[3366]24
[3368]25
[3370]2 TOP SECRET | 74
[3372]Mr. Baron. But, with anything that was published in
[3373]English, the United States citizenry would become a likely
[3374]audience for the publication?
[3376]Mr. Hunt. A Likely audience, definitely.
[3378]Mr. Baron. Did you take some sort of steps to make sure
[3379]that things that were published in English were kept out of
[3380]or away from the American reading public?
[3382]Mr. Hunt. It was impossible because fmaeceu.
[3384]commercial U.S. publisher. His books had to be seen, had to
[3386]be reviewed, had to be bought here, had to be read. Again. I
[3387]say it was a matter of great difficulty. Mr. Barnes resolved
[3388]all that philosophically, and I simply carried out the dicta.
[3390]Mr. Baron. What was your philosophical opinion of the
[3391]danger of propagandizing Americans?
[3393]Mr. Hunt. “Well, I knew that it was not a part of the
[3394]Agency charter, and it was a matter that the USIA looked at.
[3395]I talked about it occasionally. The USIA coincidentally had
[3396]come under some criticism at that time for subsidizing certain
[3397]publishers in the United States. That became known; I don't
[3398]recall how. I discussed with the USIA book man and with
[3399]Barnes the danger that we might be criticized for the same
[3401]foperation. Tf
[3403]reasons. I was never enchanted with the Benages.
[3404]thought it cost far too much money and had minimal benefits
[3406]abroad, and further, we had the liability, the vulnerability
[3408]to quite reasonable critcism that we had U.S. citizens as a
[3410]DoclId: 32702413 Page 46 TOP SECRET
[3413]Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3415]WARD & PAUL
[3417]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[3419]HY 409545
[3421]16
[3427]13
[3429]14
[3431]Ls
[3433]16
[3435]i?
[3437]18
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[3445]22
[3447]23
[3449]24
[3451]25
[3453]Docld: 32702416 Page 47 ‘ TOP SECRET
[3455]TOP SECRET oo.
[3457]target, or an audience, I should say.
[3459]Mr. Baron. Were there any precautions taken against i
[3461]dissemination in America of publications by CIA proprietaries
[3462]in English?
[3464]Mr. Hunt. Proprietaries, well, my only personal knowledge
[3466]ame ap geeseope ration which I say was simply mailed
[3468]out of Washington. That was the only precaution, rather than
[3469]our people mailing them themselves.
[3470]Mr. Baron. Were any techniques used to prevent contamina- |
[3471]tion of American intelligence by picking up on things that the
[3472]CIA was actually publishing or arranging to have published?
[3473]Mr. Hunt. I would assume so, and I would guess that that |
[3474]would be done in the first instance by the knowledgeability of
[3475]the reports officers in the various geographic divisions at
[3477]headquarters who would scan newspapers, for example, or they |
[3481]would receive raw reports from let's say, and see that
[3483]there had been a big sale of a particular book which we had
[3485]1
[3486]t
[3488]sponsored, which they knew we had sponsored but nobody else
[3490]knew. Of course, ie tai ; Newabewnakwould have known about
[3492]it, too. i
[3493]So I would say that it was a pretty good fail-safe. The
[3495]area of knowledgeability was high. For one thing, I traveled
[3497]some in those days. I traveled to Bombay. I. talked to the
[3499]poses there. I traveled to New Delhi and talked to
[3501]rthere, who was my CA opposite number, and |
[3504]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3506]WARGO & PAUL
[3508]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3510]HW 50955
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[3530]Docld: 3270027418 Page 46 FOP SECRET
[3532], TOP SECRET 1
[3534]keep them up to date as to what we were planning. I would do
[3536]i
[3538]the same in France and so forth.
[3540]1
[3541]i
[3542]i
[3543]1
[3545]Mr. Baron. Were there any specific instances that you know
[3547]'
[3548]i
[3550]of of an eventual placement in the U.S. press of a story that
[3551]the CIA generated or fabricated abroad somewhere? For instance, |
[3552]a story could conceivably be picked up by the UPI or by Reuters
[3553]that the CIA had planted abroad.
[3554]Mr. Hunt. I can't recall anything significant. I would
[3555]guess that during the Cuban, during the days of maximum
[3556]Cuban operation that sort of thing happened. I would think it
[3557]would be unavoidable, but I can't specify. .
[3558]Mr. Baron. And are there any other instances than things
[3560]you have mentioned of direct placements of stories in the U.S.
[3562]press by the CIA?
[3564]Mr. Hunt. I have mentioned the:
[3565]cooperative venture with
[3566]things. No, I can’t recall.
[3568]Mr. Baron. I touched earlier upon the possibility of
[3570]disseminating derogatory information about Agency targets. These
[3571]were you aware of any general program of that nature to discredit
[3572]either a foreign political leader or a foreign political fac-
[3573]tion, or domestic political groups or leaders?
[3575]Mr. Hunt. To the latter question, no. Domestic, I am
[3577]not aware of any.
[3579]I think the Soviet Russia division was quite active, and it
[3582]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3584]WARD & PAUL
[3588]410 Fisst Street, $.E., Washington, 0.C. 20003
[3590]HW 50955
[3592]10
[3596]12
[3598]13
[3600]14
[3602]15
[3604]16
[3606]17
[3608]18
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[3618]235
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[3624]Docla:34 02418 Page 49
[3626]5 TOP SECRET. 77
[3628]kept a list, for example, and maintained a very good list of
[3629]KGB officers abroad, and when one would show up at Luanda, for
[3630]example, they would make sure that the local press got the
[3631]man's dossier, or at least a blind handout so that they would
[3632]know who the fellow was, much as the Butz counterspy operation
[3633]is doing. teday against the CIA.
[3635]Mr. Baron. Did you make arrangements, or did you know
[3636]of arrangements being made for non-CIA authors to write pieces
[3637]that were favorable to the CIA?
[3639]Mr. Hunt. No.
[3641]Mr. Baron. There was no funding of that kind of opera-
[3642]ton?
[3644]Mr. Hunt. You mean sort of flackery, the favorable
[3645]publicity for the Agency, is that what you imply?
[3647]Mr. Baron. Right. |
[3649]Mr. Hunt. No.
[3651]Mr. Baron. What about subsidizing non-CIA authors to
[3652]write stories of any sort, or books of any sort that the CIA
[3653]was interested in having published?
[3655]Mr. Hunt. I would say this in a qualified sense. Where
[3657]in the past we
[3658]of his book on By ace malayan problem, obviously
[3659]we were subsidizing the author of that book because it was
[3661]was ultimately passing to the indi-
[3663]our money that
[3665]greesen
[3667]vidual, but that was@aasecem doing it rather than us. In
[3669]TOP SECRET
[3671]fa commitment to buy X copies
[3674]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3676]WARD & PAUL
[3678]410 First Street, $.E., Wasnington, O.C. 20003
[3680]HW 50955
[3682]10
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[3688]13
[3690]14
[3692]15
[3694]16
[3696]1?
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[3714]Docld: 3327027418 Page 50 TOP SECRET
[3716]‘ecank@while he was doing the Penkoski.Papers. So that was.
[3717]pease g P
[3719]. TOP SECRET 18
[3721]other words, there was never any face to face contact.
[3723]Mr. Baron. Aside from dealing through publishing houses
[3725]that you had established contact with, did you deal individually
[3727]with authors who were non-CIA employees?
[3728]i
[3729]|
[3731]Mr. Hunt. I did not. I don't think DOD did. I think that.
[3732]Far East Division did.
[3733]Mr. Baron. Do you know with whom?
[3734]Mr. Hunt. You mentioned [Chinese GSQSaEo? for example. |
[3736]Well, they dealt also, the Soviet Russia division dealt with
[3739]on the Penkoskhi case. In fact, I had lunch with
[3741]an example.
[3743]Mr. Baron. Did they have a regular program?
[3745]Mr. Hunt. Yes, I think so.
[3747]Mr. Baron. Both of those two divisions?
[3749]Mr. Hunt. Yes.
[3751]Mr. Baron. Is there anything else that you think we would
[3752]need in order to have a fairly clear, complete picture of the
[3753]relations to the media or the publishing industry?
[3755]Mr. Hunt. Well, I think you could get probably a good
[3756]deal more information from Cord Myer, who had a lot of that
[3757]directly under him when he was Chief of the International
[3758]Organizations Division, and of course, he served as Deputy
[3760]Chief of Clandestine Services for quite a while. He would
[3762]probably have as panoramic knowledge as anybody. I quess he’s
[3765]TOP SECRET
[3767]80 i
[3769]1 was that we had made the -- the President had given certain
[3771]2 | undertakings to Cuban leadership and to our own paramilitary
[3773]Phone (Area 202) 544-6000
[3775]3 people, and had failed to carry them out.
[3777]4 | However, this fact was successéully disguised for a number
[3778]5 of years,. but Dulles and Dick Bissell—paid the price.
[3780]6 In any events, the Bay of Pigs cost Dulles his leadership
[3781]7 of the Agency, and I had the utmost respect for him. I was
[3783]8 associated with him as an assistant for the special Cuban
[3785]9 Bay of Pigs purposes, for a period of several months prior to,
[3787]10. perhaps six months prior to his eventual retirement.
[3789]11 I had had occasional contacts with him as PEChio? of ¥
[3791]ne econ and I had seen him in Japan when he came over there
[3792]Selene
[3794]13 || and we had some discussions. Mr. Dulles brought into the
[3796]WARD & PAUL
[3798]14 || formal Central Intelligence Agency the same feéling of esprit |
[3799]15 | de corps that we had all enjoyed in the Office of Strategic
[3800]16 || Services, and this was largely lost during the McCone director-
[3802]17 | ship. And I think we had some admiral after that, Admiral |
[3804]18 | Radford, possibly. We got under a group of managers, and the
[3805]19 | human element that we had enjoyed in OSS was gone with the
[3807]20 | passage of Allen Dulles until Dick Helms came back in. You
[3809]21 | see, I'm an ynrepentent admirer of Allen Dulles and the way we
[3811]22 | used to do business. Why do I sav that? Because the wav we cid
[3813]23 | business during Mr. Dulles's directorate was precisely the wav
[3815]24 i we did it in OSS. during General Denovan's creation and direction|
[3817]410 First Street, S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003
[3819]25 lof that organization. In OSS. which was Allan Dulles's training,
[3820]‘ ground as much
[3822]HW 50955 - DocId: 32802418 Page 51 TOP SECRET i
[3826]yt — fe):
[3827]v7 ; —_— SECRET | Exh t.7
[3829]“FROM
[3831]ACTION: DC/WH/SA 3
[3833]INFO : DDP,VR *
[3835], Jo OCAT o¢
[3836]SECRET 1612282 =
[3838]IW (5/00
[3840]PRIORITY DIR INFO PRIORITY WAVE CITE :
[3842]REF (ENO 1681 IN 73706
[3844]4 1. CIA OFFICERS MET WITH SUBJ REF 1$.SEPT. ONLY "IMPORTANT",
[3845]INFO HE PROVIDED WAS VAGUE REFERENCE TO AGENT-1 PLAN ASSASSINATE
[3846]CASTRO ATTENPT WOULD SUPPOSEDLY TAKE PLACE DURING UNIVERSITY
[3847]CEREMONY AT WHICH CASTRO PRESENT. AGENT-1 REPORTEDLY RESPONSIBLE
[3848]ARRANGING DELIVERY CUBA ONE BELGIAN FAL EQUIPPED WITH SILENCER.
[3849]AGENT-1 WAS TO BE TRIGGERMAN SUPPORTED BY UNIDEN-ARMY OFFICERS.
[3850]ABOVE PLAN NOW APPARENTLY ABANDONED. .
[3852](@ 2. SAID AGENT-1 ANXIOUS LEAVE CUBA ON OFFICIAL VISIT ORDER
[3853]CONTACT CIA RE HIS FUTURE ROLE WITH CUBA. SUBJ SUGGESTED REMOTE
[3854]POSSIBILITY ARRANGE VISIT PRAGUE THRU AGENT-1 FRIEND JOSE, DELEG
[3855]TO IUS. OUR IMPRESSION IS AGENT-1 WANTS. COME OUT FOR GOOD AS
[3856]PROBABLY FEELS PERSONAL SITUATION TENUOUS.
[3858]3. ACCORDING SUBJ, FOLL PERSONS OR INFLUENCE ON AGENT-1 TEAM.
[3859]MAJOR, MAJOR AND EX-MAJOR (FU
[3861]4. SAID AGENT-2 HAS NUMEROUS CONTACTS CUBAN OFFICIAL CIRCLES
[3862]MADRID, PARIS, BUT WORKING FOR ANOTHER GOV'T. SINCE HE IN BAD
[3863]STANDING WITH U.S.G. HINTED CIA SHOULD BE IN TOUCH 4ee#r-¥ HOWEVER
[3865]STATION gE STRONG RESERVATIONS AGAINST AGENT-2 ON SECURITY GROUNDS
[3867]SECRET
[3870]HW 50955 DociId: 32202418 Page 52
[3873]ee SE CKLY
[3875]PAGE 2
[3876]AND FACT HE OUT FOR GOLD, PLUS LITTLE EVIDENCE CAPABILITY
[3877]PRODUCE INFO OF INTEREST. 4
[3878]5, @BEjwHo LEFT MELTING FIRST, CLEARLY INFERRED TO SUBJ 17 HAD
[3879]BEEN “GREAT WASTE OF TIME." OTHER CIA OFFICER PROCEEDED POLITELY
[3880]MCHEK QUT" SUBJ FOR GETTING US TO ABOVE MEET ON FALSE PRETENSES. 7
[3881]| SUBJ FRANKLY ADMITTED HIS "RECRUITMENT" BY CIS WAS HANDLED IN SUCH
[3882]SLOPPY MANNER AS BE CONSTRUED A FARCE. VIEW VAGUENESS HIS MISSTON
[3883]AND LACK SECURE CONTACTS, REPORTING CHANNELS, IT APPARENT CIS NOT
[3884]EXPECTING MUCH RESULTS FROM OP WHICH PROBABLY MADE ON "HIT OR MISS"
[3885]BASIS. QUITE LIKELY "EDUARDO" WILL NEVER APPEAR TO CONTACT SUBJ,
[3886]"6. SEEING HIS "UTILITY" TO US AS DUBIOUS, SUBJ BEGAN SCRATCHIS
[3888]HEAD FOR LEADS AND MENTIONED FOLL "FRIENDS" HE MIGHT CONTACT: ORLAND:
[3892]BLANCO |§ | CHARGE IN BERN WHO COMING BER
[3894]TRASANCO OF PAIR MB OWHO CONFIDANTE ASLASH 1 ALSO ANQWN
[3895]SG MADRID:
[3897]Rigs
[3899]AND ENRIQUE RODRIQUEZ LOECHES, AMB TO MOROCCO SOMemn
[3900]20 SEPT.
[3902]7. C/O SAID NOW UP TO SUBJ SHOW BONAFIDES SUGGESTING HE WCULD
[3903]TAKE ADVANTAGE HIS "UNIQUE STATUS" AS CUBAN AGENT GAIN ENTRY
[3904]OFFICIAL CIRCLES. SUBJ FEARS WE MAY DENY VISA AND DENOUNCE HIM TO
[3908]ANU POLICE. ALTHOUGH HE PROMISED MAKE EVERY EFFORT, INDICATIONS
[3910]TO DATE ARE HE WILL HAVE LITTLE, IF ANY, OPS UTILITY. IN ASY FVENT
[3911]WAS TOLD EXAMINE THOROUGHLY ANY LEADS HE MIGHT HAVE IN NEXT FEW
[3912]DAYS. WE WILL DECIDE IN NEXT MEETING OR TWO WHETHER HE DOLS APPEAR
[3913]TO HAVE ANY UTILITY, IF NOT HE WILL BE DROPPED.
[3915]SECRET .
[3917]a abresisiMerircasee TO SENSITIVE CABLES
[3919]mes 9 1975
[3921]vlA SECRET
[3923]AA ve agit we
[3925]5. eu aE ERR
[3928]Lee ea y : SENT Y [2UOseas ; i gs
[3929]; ANCL -PSOJII-JOAAN INA From eeg EY. WeU ar ©} Ses UIPQp See, ory uur JO toy 38s a :
[3930]/ Ex) iD
[3931]THE NEW YORK TIMES,
[3933]THURSDAY. JANUARY §, 1975 ‘
[3935]Denies Heading F
[3937]I
[3939]rA S$Qssinations,
[3940]ee .
[3942]Retired C olonel
[3943]C.I.A. Unit fo
[3944]| eS
[3946]SPetal to The New Yor‘ Times
[3948]WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 — \
[3952]’ 1949 and 1951, inj
[3953]retired Army colonet has denied See Petiod in
[3955]|
[3956]|
[3958]: which } j .
[3959]ito Senate investigators an S| signed te the cop porarily ass
[3960]Isertion by E. Howard Hunt: i e BLA,
[3962]Nr. that th
[3964]; . OF at any!
[3965]@ colonel once headed: Other time in hig Career. :
[3966]1& Central Intelligence Agency! Mr. Hunt said ina recent:
[3967]lunit set up to arrange for the Mterview that during his ser-,
[3968]| Assassinations of suspected vice With the CLASS Balkans,
[3969],double-agents.
[3971]Vision in the Mid-1950's he
[3972]The coloncl, Boris T. pach, had discussed with
[3974]jtold the Senate Select Commit. Pash. at his superiors’
[3976]: behest, :
[3978]BS a dims exerdy NP, spec aa @
[3979]{that during 1954 and 1955—the lieved to be a double agent. i
[3981]period in which Mr. Hunt, a “T was told that we had.
[3983]jformer C.LA. officer, said he that capability,” Mr. Hune said:
[3985]| lone! Pash ‘ y
[3987]was told that Colone! Pas in the interview, and “that the:
[3988]ran such an operation—he had Suv to See about this sort of!
[3989]left the CLA. and returned 7 - \
[3991]to military service things was Colonel Pash.” {
[3993]_' Mr. Hunt, who Said that hej
[3994]In a statement made public hag understood that Colone!:
[3995]by the panel today. Celonel pach was deceased, added that/
[3996]Pash termed Mr. Hunt's a5Ser-'he did discuss the matter with |
[3997]tlons “insidious and completely: the colonel, who seemed
[3998]false. ishocked “that the subject has!
[3999]He said he could hot recalliever been brought up.” and
[4000]ever having met or Spoken w:
[4002]Colonel,
[4004]Mr. Hunt, who is 5
[4006]prison term for his role in’ Investigators for the nptng| MISSES
[4007]the Watergage case. icommiltee are now attempting
[4009]Nor, the colonel Said. wasito interview Mr. Hunt about/
[4010]he ever “involved in any assas- ; this
[4012]assertion. a committee
[4013]sination planning” hetween spokesman said.
[4015]i ;
[4016]SPANISH TROOPS tc ~~ SEASL
[4017]SPANISH TROOPS RUN through the center of the Capital
[4019]between working-class neigh r.
[4020]SUBWAY IN MADRID hoods” ron ci385 neiehbe
[4022]Passengers were ad-'
[4024]ned ‘mitted free, :
[4025]MADRID, Jan. 7 (AP)—The/ San
[4027]Spanish Army began running) MADRID, Jan. 7 (Reuters)—:
[4029]the Madrid: subway system to./Striking Madrid subway work.’
[4031]day as the Government moved,érs tonight voted to defy Gov.
[4033]ingeriy to break a three-day /érnment pressure and. to con-j . -
[4034]wildcat stake that set off the/tinue their walk-out. Strike! Find the la
[4036]worst traffic snarl in the city’s;leaders said they would hold! Single and doubie t
[4037]history. '
[4039](out until their wage demands! -.. Sick frem plenty ,
[4040]_ Fearing a possible labor back-:were met. want. We even have som.
[4041]lash, the Government refrained| The strikers voted not to!
[4043]for the moment, however
[4045]» fromiaccept an offer from the offi-!
[4046]| n union to
[4049]i )
[4050]ice, hold talks if they returned to
[4051]About 3,000 electric company| work.
[4052]workers marched into the cen-
[4053]ter of Madrid in SUPPOrt of the
[4055]BARCELONA, Spain, Jan. 7|
[4056]Subway workers and the police (AP)—The Rev. Luis Marta Xiri.
[4057]used tear gas to disperse them. nachs. an outspoken Roman
[4058]The police said they broke UP Catholic priest nominated for
[4059]i the Nobel Peace Prize last year,
[4060]Siwas arresteq today while dem.
[4061]onstrating near the local Prison
[4062]were reported. , in support of amnesty for politi.
[4063]Army personnel trained as cai prisoners, police sources said,
[4064]railroad engineers reopened the ee
[4065]main subway line, which runs
[4068]REMEMBER THE HEEOIEST!
[4071]; single and doudie :
[4073]lles,
[4075]dra slips
[4077]A printed two-piece
[4078]Lamia a ' 7
[4080]HY S}9955 4 DogTa: 32202418 B
[4083]Eylab i
[4085]A year ago when Congress established the Church Committee, Senator
[4087]STATEMENT BY E. HOWARD HUWIT
[4089]Baker was quoted as saying that I would be an early witness. I was then free
[4090]on Appeal and readily available to testify concerning CIA involvement in
[4091]allegedly illegal act toni y orecvers I viewed testifying before the
[4092]Committee a3 & further/to testify under oath concerning my total non =
[4093]involvement with Messrs Cswald, Bremer and Sirhan, persons with whom my
[4094]name has been slanderously and libelously linked in press and electronic
[4095]media. Although I had been interviewed previously by the FBI and the Rock-
[4096]efeller Comission with regard to these allegations a host of assassination
[4097]buffs and media advocates continued irresponsibly to associate me with the
[4098]deaths of the Kennedy brothers and the crippling of Governor Wallace.
[4100]My Appeal denied, I re-entered prison in April,1975. Three weeks
[4101]later US Marshals escorted me to Washington DC for what turned out to be &
[4102]three-hour interview with a new Watergate Assistant Special Prosecutor. For
[4103]a 9=day period I was lodged at the Leesburg, Vae, jail,and finally returned
[4104]via Detroit and Tallahassee where I was imprisoned in the isolation area
[4105]before being driven on May 26 to Eglin Federal Frison Camp. On May 27,
[4106]Assistant Committee Counsel Michael Madigan telephoned me to say that the
[4107]Church Committee wanted to interview me “within the next two weeks", I
[4108]apprised Mr. Madigan of Public Law 93-209, Title 18. Sec.k082(c) Paras 1
[4109](amended) which authorises minimum security prisoners such as myself to be
[4110]furloughed for up te 30 days for purposes of testifying. Counsel Madi gen
[4111]agreed to ay testifying om this furlough basise
[4113]"Over the sumer,however, I beard nothing further fron Hr. Madigan
[4114]or his Committee associates. Then in mid-September a Washington POST story
[4115]alleged that I had been assigned by a White House superior to assassinate
[4116]columist Jack Anderson. Senator Church was thereupon quoted as saying
[4118]that his Committee would investigate the charges. I welcomed this apparent
[4120]" HUNT. Cont 'de
[4124]opportunity, for the allegations had gained wide credence while may ow
[4125]delayed response appeared only incompletely in the press, Still, nothing
[4126]wag heard from the Committees
[4128]In December 1975 John Crewdson of the New York Times interviewed.
[4129]me in prison. He asked af I knew anything about "CIA assassination capas0
[4130]bilities’, and I related to him ny encounter with Col. Boris T. Pash. Mre
[4131]Crewdson then inquired whether the Church Committee had interviewed me.
[4132]I responded in terms of the foregoing, noting that I would have testified
[4133]about the Pash encounter had I been given the publicized opportunities.
[4134]My interview with Mr. Crewdson was published and shortly thereafter ny
[4135]attorney was contacted by a representative of the Committee.
[4137]I consider it highly discriminatory that the Committee is
[4138]unwilling to have me testify in Washington a5 a furloughed witness.
[4139]Further, the Committee's refusal to postpone interviewing me in prison
[4140]atil one of two counsel familiar with my career and affaires is available
[4141]places me in a difficult position with regard to representation by inforned
[4142]legal comsel. And, as during the Ervin Committee hearings ( whose cost in
[4143]legal fees to me approached #100,000) I must again pay legal fees occasioned
[4144]by the interest of the Senate in a matter of no discernible benefit to me,
[4146]Between last January and April I could freely have traveled to
[4147]Washington to testify at the pleasure of the Senate. From then on I could
[4148]have been furloughed for that purpose and testified accompanied by customary
[4149]counsel who are not now available to Be. Nevertheless, in demonstration of
[4151]my willingness to cooperate fully with the Senate I agree to be interviewed
[4153]ander onth today. SA ny a
[4155]BE. Howard Hunt
[4160]C(s#\|- Bareaet
[4161]RictAAOe a
[4163]| CjFif se
[4165]Dcecssé]
[4167]( Ruan anis| G REEFEE Veeosiaua TRIESTE
[4169]pz CAN 7
[4172]Tom Seacan
[4174]HW 50955 DoclId: 32202418 Page 59
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