[1]1470080
[2]104-10062-10073
[4]| 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
[6]OLC 74-0179 |
[8]4 Feb ruary ‘1974
[10]MEMORANDUM FOR.THE RECORD
[12]SUBJECT: “Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities
[13]oS _ Testimony of 4 February 1974
[15]1. This, the first day of hearings involving Agency witnesses to
[17], testify under oath in executive session with Vice Chairman Howard Baker
[19]presiding, was held in S. 1418, Dirksen Office Building. Although scheduled
[21]’ to commence at 0930 hours, Senator Baker did not show up to swear in the
[22]_ witnesses until 1025 hours at which time he administered the oath to Mary
[24]McGillen, Robert Ritchie, Martin Lukoskie, and Erich Isenstead and then
[25]left.
[27]2. Background:
[29]a. Asa result of previous sessions with Senator Baker
[30]and his counsel the following Agency witnesses were scheduled:
[31]Mary McGillen, Robert Ritchie, Martin Lukoskie, Erich
[33]'Isenstead, James Angleton, Richard A. Krueger, Steven
[34]- Greenwood, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, Thomas Karames sines,
[35]Frank O'Malley, and Jacob Esterline.
[37]b. Those witnesses who were able to assemble were met
[38]as a group on Saturday, 2 February, with Mr. Lansdale, Office
[39]of General Counsel, and myself meeting each one individually.
[40]It was pointed out to all that:
[42](1) Their appearance before the Committee was
[44]voluntary; the Agency was not directing them to appear,
[45]but, of course, the Committee had the power of subpoena.
[47]“Signer!
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[54](2) They had the right to a private counsel and
[55]that Mr. Lansdale and I would sit in with them during
[56]the session and that our principal role would be to .
[57]assure that the questioning did not get into sensitive
[58]areas unrelated to Watergate." ;
[60]c. Early in the hearing of 4 February 1974 it became
[61]clear that the Committee could in no way handle the five
[62]witnesses scheduled for the day, and that the Committee
[63]counsels had not had sufficient time to absorb the voluminous
[64]written material that we had provided them earlier in the
[65]week, Asa result, with the agreement of Committee
[66]counsel’ we unplugged for now Messrs. Isenstead, Angleton,
[67]and O'Malley. Also, following the day's testimony which ended .
[68]in the late afternoon, I stayed on into the evening to review
[69]all of the material that we had provided to the counsels to
[70]make sure that they would make better use of the time of all
[71]involved.
[73]3. Presession Agreements:
[74]ko Prior to the hearings Thompson agreed:
[76]a. To the security arrangements which I outlined
[77](see attachment), ; Oo
[79]be To treat the testimony as exhibits under the
[80]1 February 1974 understanding reached with Senator
[81]Baker. |
[83]c. That he thought it would be all right for us to have
[84]a copy of the transcript, but he didn't want us to show it to .
[85]scheduled witnesses, (This is a fairly remote possibility
[86]because of the delay in getting transcripts. )
[88]4. Mary Louise McGillen; .
[90](Saturday Miss McGillen had mentioned that she had had a
[91]roommate who somehow knew Marchetti and that the former roommate
[92]had told her the Committee might be interested in talking to her, feeling
[93]that she had information relating to McCord's employment in the Agency. )
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[99]Miss McGillen testified from 1025 hours until 1040 hours and her testimony |
[100]was completely uneventful. She identified Mr. Hollis Whitaker. . Also, her
[101]uncertainty over whether McCord retired in 1970 or 1971 raised a possibility
[102]that she had seen McCord in Agency Headquarters in 1971 after McCord had
[103]retired, but eventually it was clarified that she had seen McCord before his
[104]retirement and not after it.
[106]- 5. Robert Ritchie:
[108]Mr. Ritchie testified from 1040 hours until 1235 hours, with
[109]Thompson guestioning Ritchie for about 65 minutes, Ritchie acquitted
[110]himself extremely well and there were no surprises in his testimony.
[112]ae ‘Liebengood brought out the sudden TDY to Head-
[113]quarters from Miami following the Watergate incident.
[115]b. Some confusion arose because Ritchie was not sure
[116]of the date he took over Martinez, he thought it might have
[117]; been some time in March 1972, when in fact it was late in
[118]oo, ‘April.
[120]c. Itis obvious that the counsels have some conflicting
[121]testimony concerning the discovery of Martinez!’ car in the
[122]Miami airport following the. arrests in June 1972.
[124]°6. Martin Lukoskie:
[126]. During Mr. Lukoskie's testimony, which commenced at 1300
[127]hours, I moved to go off the record a number of times on the following
[128]points;
[130]a. Thompson wanted to know who we dealt with in —
[131](General Foods to lay on cover arrangements. I told him ~
[132]° we were getting into unchartered waters because I didn't
[133]know where his questioning was going to end up. He said
[134]his interest was to find out the names of the individuals
[135]and companies with which CIA had a relationship in Mexico
[137]over the last ten years, I requested that he rephrase his
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[142]Co
[144]question so that we could respond only with respect to the .
[146]_ particular companies or individuals in which he was. interested,
[148]As.a concession, he cut down the period from the last ten years
[150]' to "since 1971" and I said we would note his request.
[152]b. Thompson asked about CIA relationships with the Mormon
[154]' church, the Summa Corporation, or the Hughes Tool Company,
[156](Thompson said he had specific information that we had something
[158]-'with the Mormon church.) I suggested that if he is interested in.
[159]‘whether the Agency had any relationship with these three institutions
[160]-in' connection with CIA's relationship with the Mullen Company; he —
[162]rephrase the question. Thompson refused to do this and I said we
[163]would note his request, . Doe, a
[165]c. Thompson wanted a full explanation of the “WH flap. "
[167]_ I told Thompson this involved a sensitive and active situation |
[168]‘which had been explained to Senator Baker and that Lukoskie
[170]was not an Agency witness in this respect, but we would note
[172]his interest and see what could be provided. (I believe Thompson
[173]has already been fully exposed to the 'WH flap'' in an executive |
[174]hearing with Bennett during which Baker asked if Bennett knew
[175]what the WH flap was all about. Baker later told me that Bennett
[176]did know, and explained it to Baker. J assumed that Bennett may
[177]have gotten this information fromVJim. Everett? :) Thompson
[178]observed the parallel which exists between the position of CIA
[180]~ with respect to the "WH flap" and the White House with respect
[182]to issues it did not wish to be explored by the Attorney General
[183]in connection with the activities of the Plumbers (an observation |
[184]I have been expecting for some time, “but this is the first time it ©
[185]has been presented directly. )
[187]Mr. Lukoskie! s testimony was excellent with no surprises and generally
[188]paraiicled that given to Senator Baker in the Senator’ s office | on ll December
[190]a. Concerning any general logs that CCS maintains on
[191]contacts with cover firms, Lukoskie explained that internal
[192]procedures had changed some time in December 1972 on the ©
[193]information to be maintained in the logs. To assure his
[194]responsiveness to a specific question, I refreshed Lukoskie's.
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[198]Art pre
[200]toed edyielin 2 VE
[202]. memory on an entry in a CCS log on a call in June 1972
[203]between the Agency and the Mullen Company in which it was.
[204]not clear either who initiated the call or who was contacted
[205]in the ‘Mullen Company. 2
[207]Follow up: Provide any extant memorandum reflecting
[208]the change in 1 information to be covered in the CCS log.
[210]b. In response to counsel's questions, Lukoskie said he
[211]had no knowledge of (1) a Greenspun memorandum, (2) a-
[212]Mr. Waite (sp?) of General Foods, and (3) Mr. Hemlick (sp?)
[213]_of ANA (Association of National Advertisers),
[215]Ge The counsels focused in on the meetings between
[216]. Mr. Hunt and Messrs. Cord Meyer and Tom Karamessines.
[218].: d. In characterizing Mr. Bennett as an individual in
[219]‘whom he did not have a great deal of trust, as contrasted
[220]with Mr. Mullen, Lukoskie mentioned Bennett's suggestion |
[221]_ that Lukoskie would be well taken care of if he could assist |
[222]in getting unfavorable information on Mr. ‘Maheu. ;
[224]7.. Following the hearings, I stayed on with the counsel and we
[225]reviewed late into the evening the voluminous material previously provided
[226]by the Agency to assure that they could make more effective use of the time
[227]of all involved and hopefully to get to the bottom of whatever is troubling
[228]them.
[230]During the session I made it clear that I was puzzled by their ques-
[231]tioning during the day since it was apparent that they had not yet absorbed '
[232]the information we had already provided and which we think satisfactorily
[233]answers the questions they had raised, Restating a point that I had made
[234]previously, I said that while I did not personally believe so, their investi-
[235]gation had the appearance of a fishing expedition and that if they continued
[237]it would be unavoidable that we would have to disclose more and more
[239]sensitive information which had no bearing on the case and which I assumed
[241]Tete
[242]boa ee be ee
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[246]Att.
[248]they had no desire to obtain. I said that I felt that’ serious consideration
[249]should be given to either advising Mr. Colby about the particulars, or if
[251]that was not satisfactory, to at least advise our oversight Committee :
[252]chairmen and ask them to investigate whatever serious leads: had been
[253]developed in the secure environment structured for the oversight of .
[254]‘sensitive CIA matters... Mr. Thompson admitted this suggestion had some ©
[255]merit, - vote oo 7 a
[257]Sioxmp
[259]LYLE L. MILLER .
[260]. Deputy Legislative Counsel
[265]Original - Subject
[267]1-DCI
[268]1 - DDCI
[269]1-ER
[271]A - OGC
[272]1-IG
[273]1 -DDO
[274]1-0OS
[275]1 - Chrono
[277]Roh at : pe ie
[278]eee tee ea Fiat