[1]187-10002-10087, ; 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992 |
[3]an
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[8]Date:09/30/93
[9]Page: 1
[10]JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
[12]IDENTIFICATION FORM
[14]AGENCY INFORMATION
[16]AGENCY : SSCIA
[17]RECORD NUMBER : 157-10002-10087
[19]RECORDS SERIES :
[20]TRANSCRIPTR
[22]AGENCY FILE NUMBER : R-352
[24]ORIGINATOR : SSCIA
[25]FROM: .
[26]TO:
[28]TITLE :
[29]TESTIMONY OF SAMUEL HALPERN
[30]DATE : 06/18/75
[32]PAGES : 89
[34]SUBJECTS :
[35]CUBA
[36]ASSASSINATION
[37]CASTRO
[38]MAFIA
[39]SPECIAL GROUP
[40]BISSELL,
[41]LANSDALE, EDWARD
[42]HARVEY
[43]OPERATION MONGOOSE
[44]ZOGBEY
[45]POISON
[46]AMLASH
[47]5412 COMMITTEE
[48]ZRRIFLE
[50]TASK FORCE W a
[51]MAHEU, ROBERT “
[53]DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
[54]CLASSIFICATION : T
[55]RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED
[56]CURRENT STATUS : P
[57]DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 09/30/93
[59]. OPENING CRITERIA :
[61]{[R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED
[63]RK 50955 DoclId: 32281927 Page 1
[65]Date:09/30/93
[66]Page:2
[67]JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
[69]@ | IDENTIFICATION FORM
[70]COMMENTS :
[72]Box 245
[73]Folder 9
[75]([R] - ITEM IS RESTRICTED
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[79]Pnone (Area 202) 544-6000
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[84]WARD & PAUL
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[114]TOP SECRET | 2
[116]The Chairman. The hearing will come to order.
[118]I would like to ask Mr. Schwarz if he would give us a
[119]brief synopsis of what we intend to question our witness
[120]about this morning.
[122]Mr. Schwarz. The witness this morning will only be a
[123]single witness. He is Mr. Samuel Halpern. He was in the
[124]Far East, and I have now found out he was involved in ftha-#
[125]some alleged killing of an agent in
[126]Tailand, which are collateral matters that we may want to
[127]take up with him at the end.
[129]But he came back here in the fall of 1961 and was in-~
[130]structed as assistant to get into the Cuban matter. And
[131]he will testify that he was told that they would proceed
[132]to overthrow the Castro government, and that there were no
[133]holds barred.
[135]He will then describe the way iniwhch they worked
[136]with the Special Group.
[138]The Chairman. What was Halpern's /position?
[140]Mr. Schwarz. Halpern's position was as Executive
[141]Assistant to Harvey. And Harvey, you williremember, was the
[142]man that was actually in charge of the Cuban position.
[144]The Chairman. When are we going to get Harvey?
[146]Mr. Schwarz. He is coming next |Wednesday morning.
[148]We are going to get some of this ;same conflict between
[150]the no-holds-barred testimony, which in his mind I guess he
[152]TOP SECRET
[155]TOP SECRET | ;
[156]: 1 Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir.
[157]3
[158]g 2 Mr. Schwarz. Who else was present at that meeting?
[159]é ) Mr. Halpern. fAUMr....Ghose: Zogbey.} He was my branch
[160]i 4 chief. |
[161]5 3 Mr. Schwarz. Is he alive today, or is he dead?
[162]6 | Mr. Halpern. He died last year.
[163]7 | Mr. Schwarz. Approximately when' in the fall of 1961
[164]8 | did that meeting take place?
[165]9 Mr. Halpern. About the middle of October 1961.
[166]10 Mr. Schwarz. What instructions were you given by Mr.
[167]11 Bissell at tht meeting?
[168]; 12 _ Mr. Halpern. Mr. Bissell said he had recently -- and
[169]5
[170]@ : 13 he didn't specificy the date or the time ~-- he had recently
[171]oO .
[172]< 14 | been chewed out in the Cabinet Room of! the White House by
[173]| 15 borh the President and the Attorney General for, as he put
[174]16 it, sitting on his ass and not doing anything about getting
[175]17 rid of Castro and the Castro regime. |His orders to both
[176]18 iMrse-Zogbey| and to me were to plan for bn operation to
[177]5 19 accomplish that end.
[178]3
[179]; 20 Mr. Schwarz. Was any content put; into the term
[180]: 21 “get rid of", or was that the term that was used, and only
[181]: 22 that term?
[182]a 23 Mr. Halpern. To the best of my recollection, that was
[183]@ i 24 it. There was no limitation of any kind. Nothing was for-
[184]: 25 bidden, and nothing was withheld. And. ji the objective was to
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[190]| TOP SECRET
[191]3
[192]3 1 | remove Castro and his regime.
[193]@ 3 2 Mr. Schwarz. And did you talk about tactics at all
[194]g S in that meeting, or was it just a general discussion about
[195]i 4 | getting organized.
[196]9 Mr. Halpern. Just a general discussion as to what we wou lid
[197]6 ! do, how we would proceed, and what we|/would need. And at
[198]7 i that point I had no idea how many people were left on the staff
[199]i
[200]8 i in the branch only having been on the job a day or a day and
[201]iH i
[202]9 | a half.
[203]10} Mr. Schwarz. Shorly after that time did you get put in
[204]il contact with a general? |
[205]: 12 | Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. General Lansdale.
[206]@ : 13 | Mr. Schwarz. And what was his function when you were
[207]a
[208]‘ 14 | introduced to him?
[210]15 Mr. Halpern. Both iMr.-> I were introduced
[211]16} to him as the new chief of Operations for a government-wide
[212]1? effort to accomplish the removal of Castro and the Castro
[213]1g | regime. This effort was to include not lonly CIA but the
[215]19 Department of State and the Department |of Defense. And
[217]20 General Lansdale was to be the Chief of Operations for that
[219]2h outfit.
[221]410 Fat Street, S-E., Wasnington, 0.C. 20603
[223]202 Mr. Schwarz. And did you brief him about Cuba or did
[225]23 he brief you about the operation, or what was the nature of that?
[226]24 Mr. Halpern. No, we briefed him first in the old
[228]25 Situation Room, what used to called the Tbell Building, which
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[274]12
[276]Mr. Halpern. It wasn't a matter|of General Lansdale's
[278]being in charge, or the Attorney General being in charge,
[280]nobody objected to General Lansdale reporting to the Attorney
[281]General.
[283]It was a matter of whether this would be done through
[284]the normal chain of command, or whether we would actually be
[286]under the General's direct command.
[288]i
[289]H
[291]Mr. Schwarz. But it still is a chracterization, you
[292]were dealing with organization and bureaucracy?
[294]Mr. Halpern. That is right. And drafting papers.
[296]Mr. Schwarz. Drafting papers to do what?
[298]Mr. Halpern. To try to get organized in terms of how
[299]we would accomplish the objective.
[301]Mr. Schwarz.Did any of those papers that you drafted
[302]in those early stages include any reference to assassination
[303]as a device to accomplish the objective?
[305]Mr. Halpern. No, sir. |
[307]Mr. Schwarz. Now, did Mr. Helms enter the picture in
[308]the latter part of December 1961?
[310]Mr. Halpern. That is correct. |
[312]Mr. Schwarz. Describe how he came into the picture.
[314]Mr. Halpern. To my knowledge, gbey! described to
[316]me a meeting he had been at at the Director's morning staff
[317]meeting -~ this is Mr. McCone's morning staff meeting -- in
[319]which Mr. McCone, almost in terms of a bombshell for the
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[363]group at the meeting, stated that Mr. Helms would henceforth
[365]be -- the words were, his man on Cuba./This was something
[367]that nobody in the room apparently hadiany inkling of, and
[369]particularly Mr.Helms, nor MEeSZ ogbey,
[371]. The Chairman. May I ask you to Fepeat that?
[373]Iam sorry, I just didn't catch it.
[374]i
[376]Mr. Halpern. At a meeting sometime in December 1961,
[378]an
[379]which was the morning staff meeting that the Director held, and
[380]Woebey} was present --
[382]Mr. Schwarz. But you were not?
[384]Mr. Halprrn I was not, I got this from
[386]SPECS)
[388]the Director, Mr. McCone, announced that Mr. Helms would be
[390]his man on Cuba, Mr. Helmg would then!be the Chief of Operatia
[392]for the Deputy Director of Plans, and Mr. Bissell was in the |
[394]room as the DDP. |
[395]Mr. Helms had no inkling of this before the meeting,
[397]be
[399]and so stated to (Mm Ra@ubys if he had
[401]gegbey,, and even asked
[403]had any inkling before the meeting.
[405]MeemZegbey. \told me that he had none whatsoever.
[406]Mr. Schwarz. Did Mr. Helms then come and visit your
[408]new organization and tell you to make some changes?
[410]Mr. Halpern. Yes. He came to MEMERZOgBey:' s office and look
[412]at the list of officers, male and female, who were still
[413]working in the branch. Most of them were the remnants of the
[415]people from the old Bay of Pigs operation who had not yet been
[417]reassigned. TOP SECRET
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[455]recall to a female operative.
[457]TOP SECRET
[459]30
[461]involved in this operation? That was the first reference I
[463]Mr. Schwarz. There was no such previous evidence.
[465]Mr. Halpern. We had a number of female officers! and
[467]Still do, in our branches. And there were some in the |Cuban
[469]branch and the Cuban task force.
[471]Senator Huddleston. What types of activities did they
[473]7
[475]participate in?
[477]Mr. Halpern. Oh, recruting of agents, the handling
[479]of agents, disseminating reports, preparing propaganda guid-
[481]ances, preparing papers for a special group as appropriate,
[483]doing the work of any other officer.
[485]Senator Huddleston. Can you name:
[486]i
[488]one or suggest one
[490]that was heavily involved in the assassination attempt?
[492]Mr. Halpern. Oh, I don't know of
[494]tion attempt per se,
[496]any in the assassina-
[498]Senator Huddleston. You don't know of any?
[500]Mr. Halpern. No, sir.
[501]Senator Huddleston. Thank you.
[503]The Chairman. Senator Mondale?
[505]Senator Mondale. I am sorry I cam e in late, Mr. Hal-
[507]pern, and missed some of your testimony. As I came in you
[509]were saying that orders came from somewhere to get off your
[511]ass.
[513]Mr. Halpern. Yes, sir. Mr. Bissell told M:
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[521]: |
[522]% 1 ‘cers whose objective would be to plan for the overthrow of
[523]2 g é the Castro regime.
[524]i 5 Mr. Smothers. Was it your understanding that these
[525]i 4 | plans were to extend to assassination? |
[526]5 Mr. Halpern. That word was not jused, sir. But no
[527]6 holds were barred, and we had no limitation.
[528]7 Mr. Smothers.Let me ask you it arother way. What was
[529]8 | your understanding of what Mr. Bissell had been told to do
[530]| ;
[531]9 | by the President and the Attorney Geneval?
[532]10 Mr. Halpern. To get rid of Castro and the Castro regime
[533]11 on the Island of Cuba.
[534]: a Mr. Smothers. Did Mr. Bissell convey to you the idea
[535]: 13 that that included killing Castro?
[536]a
[537]< 14 Mr. Halpern. The subject never came up per se.
[538]15 Mr. Smothers. What did you come away from that meeting
[539]16 expecting to do?
[540]17 Mr. Halpern. We were very hard put to come upwwith
[541]18 any real ideas. We didn't know what to jdo, frankly. And we
[542]n 19 went back ~- one thing we both agreed on, both&Zegbey! and
[543]3 es
[544]. 20 I, is that we were not going to come up with a piece of
[545]: 21 paper which said this was going to be easy or could be done
[546]E 22 overnight, or could be done with mirrors.
[547]* 23 The Chairman. Did you come away after your conversation
[548]; 24 with Mr. Bissell with the idea that he jhad instructed you
[549]6
[551]25 to come up with a plan of some kind designed to overthrow,
[552]|
[554]TOP SECRET
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[559]TOP SECRET | 7
[560]8
[561]$ 1 later. |
[562]@ 3 2 | The Chairman. I would like to take this and several
[563]i 5 other questions up with the committee, |one of which deals
[564]: 4 i with the question of the August recess: And I want to
[565]5 confer with you on that, too.
[566]6 How many more questions do you have?
[567]7 | Mr. Schwarz. Instead of asking the other questions I will
[568]8 | ask whether he knows anything about them, and we could bring |
[569]| :
[570]9 | him back later if he does. |
[571]16 Do you know anything about sORaRE |
[572]7" Na oi nc eee
[573]. 12 | |
[574]e .
[575]F 13 4 Mr. Halpern. Yes, Sir.
[576]a .
[577]‘ 14 Mr. Schwarz. We will bring you back on that. :
[578]15 The Chairman. Can we get that done now?
[579]16 Mr. Schwarz. Such SRE) was made ging it? |
[580]17 | Mr. Halpern. I don't know where it was made, sir, |
[581]la |} but I know it was made.
[582]. 19 Mr. Schwarz. It was made in the U.S.? |
[583]. 20 Mr. Halpern. As far as I know it was. |
[584]i 21 Mr. Schwarz. And was that donej under your direction?
[585]i 99 Mr. Halpern. Well, it was done at the Far East Division
[586]a 23 request,and I was the one who did the negotiating with the
[587]a 24 Office of Security.
[588]3 25 Mr. Schwarz. And was the plan*’ that (aetilmbwou
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[605]itvwithsome-fémalé,-
[607]co OORRE TA
[609]Mr. Halpern. No, sir, that was no
[611]Mr. Schwarz.
[613]Mr. Halpern. The plan was to hav
[615]ukarnospurpoLnting.to-har
[617]And 18S would-be .attrabutedat
[618]“and nitiwouldvbe attributed. to
[620]What was the plan?,
[622]mn, terms: cof him being closest
[624]are ee
[625]BW aSESUDDOSe
[627]67
[629]mT IR
[633]Sea Tee
[637]O°
[639]t the plan at all.
[641]ee.
[643]e [Suciieate
[647]use in the propaganda
[649]SE ements
[651]datogbemtheRusshan ,
[659]iee8.
[661]siteduthe, Soviet.Union
[663]Pag TE nrg
[664]ukarno.sasuescort
[665]ET
[667]andcsthenswent back
[671]<n. bee pe oe
[674]Mr.
[676]Schwarz. In short,
[678]‘no; in an undes
[680]Waschaving,relatd
[683]female?
[685]Mr. Halpern. And, therefore, fir
[687]Senator Mondale. How was /th
[691]Mr. Halpern. It wasn't fa film. T
[693]pSfrom it in propaganda leaf
[695]and things like that, just Apie:
[697]Mr. Schwarz. Who authorized that?
[699]Halpern. (vacua who was
[701]TOP SECRET
[703]Mr.
[705]ho2e1927 Page i1
[707]it was Ax <:
[708]i. *
[710]eee enn ain of
[712]nsewithasomeRuss
[714]PERUSS Lange!
[716]i
[718]time.;in.Indonesia ..
[720]t
[722]ie which was
[726]irable.
[728]age ee
[730]ussian
[732]Senin iS A AB
[734]yntrol.
[736]Geyeilm? supposed to get to
[738]he original plan was
[740]lets, and pamphlets,
[742]then Division Chief.
[744]H ¢
[745]i
[749]Phone (Ares 202) 544-6000
[750]0
[752]4 3: know.
[754]Mr.
[756]authorized it?
[758]Mr. Halpern. Not offhand, no, “he personally I don't
[760]|
[762]—TOP SECRET
[764]Schwarz. ' Do “you know if any higher authority
[768]68
[770]5 Mr. Schwarz. And was it done, or was it turned off?
[771]i _ ica? |
[772]6 4 I mean, the Pictu erestaken? |
[773]van Mr. Halpern. The {p. umemwassstaken', and that was the |
[774]8 \ end of it.
[775]. H
[776]9! Mr. Schwarz. And Mr. Maheu was used to accomplish it?
[777]10 5 Mr. Halpern. I have no idea whatsoever. |
[778]- eee
[779]ll) Mr. Schwarz. And were thenedains : Seiuoindenes ia?
[780]; 12) Mr. Halpern. No, they were not.
[781]3
[782]< i
[783]& : 13 | Mr. Schwarz. Why not?
[784]a i (
[785]& u . :
[786]: 4 Mr. Halpern. We didn't have any proper outlets to i
[787]| ;
[788]15 | get it done.
[789]1
[790]i
[791]16 “Mr. Schwarz. You had iphempilim, but you had .no way to
[792]4
[793]1? distribute it as
[794]18 | Mr. Halpern.
[795]. 19 Mr. Schwarz. 7
[796]S 20 |
[797]3 |
[798]5 21 Mr. Halpern. The name is brand new to me, sir.
[799]: -* a
[800]é 20 Mr. Schwarz. Do you know anything! about the
[802]2 23 :
[804]- 24 Mr. Halpern. No, sir.
[805]S 25 Mr. Schwarz.
[806]|
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[846]run into lately.
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[852]Mr. Halpern. That I participated? No, sir.
[854]Schwarz.
[856]Mr. Halpern. No, sir. I was only in Bangkok, I think,
[858]once in my life.
[860]Mr. Schwarz. That doesn't ring a bell at all?
[862]Mr. Halpern. No, sir.
[864]Mr. Schwarz. Do you know about any other killings?
[865]Mr. Halpern. No, sir.
[867]The Chairman. Any other questions?
[869]Senator Schweiker. I just want to say, Mr.Chairman, that
[871]I would like to compliment the witness for some very clear and
[873]|
[875]impartial answers, instead of the partial amnesia that we have
[877]And I think your kind of candor is very helpful to us
[879]in this committee to do the job. And I think it was very
[881]i
[883]refreshing to hear some clear-cut specific recommendations of
[885]what did or did not happen. I just want to thank you.
[887]f '
[889]t
[891]The Chairman. I agree.
[893]Thank you very much.
[895]If there are no further questions,I think that completes
[897]the interrogation.
[899](The witness left the hearing room.)
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