doug morgan iwazvrsprynetcom rich todays best models detailed physical behavior involve step collapsing wave function upon making measurement step modeled draw random distribution computed wave function wave function may feynman path integral solution schrodinger wave equation something similar cases dynamic thing updates deterministic way probability distribution measurement computed definition measurement ultimately left ones physics intuition always includes permanent effect potentially noticable person experiments proposed performed make sharper distinction measurement model people use people look nonprobabalistic model matches observations well better one model hasnt found yet point comprehensive nonprobabilistic model appear one might justified strong feeling universe could really deterministic ubiquitous use probability models physics could make wonder connections questions like philosophy might cant imagine doug rich wrote interests recently roused question plagued many us least since laplace universe deterministic something truly probabilistic going whatever means actually inability resolve matter made suspect humans relatively unevolved therefore incapable understanding much cases would interested learning recent philosophical treatise matter havent read anything matter 5 years thanks rich richard e neapolitan professor chair computer science northeastern illinois university 5500 n st louis chicago illinois 60625 uai mailing list thu 07 aug 2008 014450 0700 uai determinism verses chance