alexander michael grppnpjigmailcom sat mar 22 2008 1002 martin v löwis wrote seems discussion undermined acknowledging many use cases front rationale many tacit rationales honestly really imagine explicit better implicit exactly attempting suggest explicit problem solved easier everyone interested verify needs ie use case met proposed solution solves problem since topic thread get rid eggs 26 question least enable functionality provided setuptools provided outside standard library way create pressure entire python community assimilated eggified zombies current pressure eggification main pressure appears arise strong desire python community simple installation tool like cpan downloads installs package interest well dependencies dont already installed course desire dependencies discovered downloaded installed manner honors current state python environment creates problems participation may unwanted unwarranted due lack educationunderstanding like live dangerously hopes actually helpful preamble heres attempt explicit rationale database installed packages aka new pep 262 rationale often necessary course managing python installation administrator determine following things 1 current installation state satisfies requirements new package considered installation 2 safe administrator upgrade remove package eg use systemlevel package management tool 3 files remove order uninstall package systemlevel package management tool used install 4 current installation modified inplace custom configured way changes noted upgrading furthermore many administrators want much possible automated tools without manually inspecting readme files install files installed code determine list dependencies installed versions desire able make determinations programmatically current efforts provide capabilities without standard library support resulted many users forced use nonstandard package management tools users desired capabilities proposal motivated desire provide minimum required infrastructure segments python community peacefully coexist without getting others way ie ability opt pythonbased nonsystemlevel package managers proposal proposal provide standard library following capabilities 1 list installed packages along version dependency list package 2 query ownership currently installed package standard library systemlevel package management tool etc 3 list files installed specific package 4 recall original message digest installed file determine file modified alternatives least three alternatives providing database installed packages could also potentially enable administrators accomplish ultimate goal installing new packages dependencies without breaking interfering system installation switchable environments eliminate need careful providing mechanism creation installation amounts userselectable sitepackages directories inherit currently called sitepackages something like eggless virtualenv python comanndline option choose environment need upgrade package provided standard library systemlevel package manager problem course wont help manage sandboxed environment lots little cost whole new python installation create new one time want change something ubiquitous system packages eliminate need use oss systemlevel package manager creating necessary infrastructure python packages easily distributed major systemlevel packager formats rpm deb msi mpkg etc publicly released python packages windowsbased developer releases purepython package able create rpms debs etc automatically using distutils instance without access computer running appropriate os python setuppy bdist_all upload remote hosted installation database eliminate requirement installation selfdescribing maintaining information pypi necessary one figure versions things installed system either recipes table message digest values directories addition dependencies list installed files version package thats ever released regards alex _______________________________________________ pythondev mailing list zvlllneumpythonorg httpmailpythonorgmailmanlistinfopythondev unsubscribe httpmailpythonorgmailmanoptionspythondevpythondev40tangomucom wed 06 aug 2008 120404 0400 pythondev distutils get rid eggs 26 beyond