5 1448 comparative method ongoing discussions comparative method seem getting anywhere achieving real consensus greenberg anti greenberg camps question would could valid evidence certain language families related large time depth wonder would good idea hear something defenders wideranging largetime depth comparison preferably concerning would count evidence genetic relationship concrete example take fact recently cited poser muskogean evidence greenberg book found tainted data errors geoffrey kimball critique muskogean gulf yukian material _ language americas _ ijal 58 1992 447501 imagine one might want maintain even total collapse case muskogean merely puts us back state neutral priori whether muskogean languages related amerindian languages nostratic matter anti greenberg amerindianists perfectly prepared agree amerind languages might descended common source lost neutrality suppose move neutrality position assume default muskogean amerind languages south america indeed amerind related sino tibetan indo european thus nostratic khoisan let us assume sake argument world languages genetically related let us take empirical assumption willingness reject closet racism poser says ruhlen alleged critics yearning find universal brotherhood assumption evidence principle count sort linguistic evidence would count greenberg ruhlen illich svitych disproving inclusion muskogean family conjectural though tentatively assumed proto gaeic sort data pattern configuration phonological grammatical properties could suffice make macrocomparativists throw towel go outside meet press concede defeat ought imaginable scenario would end ruhlen telling group reporters stanford daily american scientist supermarket tabloids well thought could sustain whole proto gaeic thing set paradigms haida us beat concede haida case according tests haida unrelated human languages much scope new press attention haida indians aliens space top expert admits sort scenario would get greenberg camp admit grave trouble relatedness claim fair orthodox comparativists might well say put like answer expected one argue certain methodology applied certain set data yield evidence relatedness burushaski bushman refutes relatedness positivist view historical linguistics would see maintaining hypotheses verifiable relatednesses particular form say german pfennig comes earlier germanic form initial p seen languages like english history high german sound shift counted supported observation english speakers say penny form turned twenny would trouble given german pfund committed something like pund english given great english vowel shift discovery pound good news predictions making indefinitely extensible set pairs ger pfxxx eng pxxx falsity one could conceivably taken refute brittle forms hypothesis english cognates german pfwords always begin p nt nearly enough counterevidence whole english german relatedness claim course claim would given unless complete collapse evidence pound established textually coinage novelist never heard german penny shown borrowed italian penne period pasta used small change sound correspondences started collapsing well asking 100 collapse greenberg muskogean evidence alleged kimball count complete collapse case muskogean included amerind hence fortiori case proto gaeic think need help understanding could evidence inclusion better something g e f f r e k p u l l u pullum cats ucsc edu stevenson college university california santa cruz california 95064 408 4594705 messages 408 4592555 2905 fax 408 4593334