comparative method notes recent discussions karl teeter amramer sally thomason aaa meetings sessions distant language reconstructions also response part mr poser message 14 december first discussion karl teeter agree wholeheartedly except use criteria absolutes even grammatical things borrowed sally pointed people practice correctly accept language family uto aztecan essentially proven even grammar written protolanguage parts grammar written one hand nobody would disturbed much turned one assumed uto aztecan languages originally another family truly massive borrowing uto aztecan overall hypothesis uto aztecan family would shaken hand asking question much grammar protolanguage written reveals nonabsoluteness criterion tiny bit might subject one special cases morphology grammar borrowed sally general type example karl right general wrong single criterion taken absolute unless circularly many criteria combined feats legalese single criterion would like modify amramer statement exactly spirit demand detailed morphological reconstruction languages accepted related strong quite ramer surely mean comparative grammar prerequisite reconstruction part reconstruction practice extensive comparative grammar indeed written part reconstruction ramer second wording first likely written unless following two conditions fulfilled 1 languages fact related makes grammar easier write 2 enough scholars believe languages might related put effort establishing links unwarranted discouragement second needs dealt field ramer right linguists discourage attempts prove already proven risktaking words good researchers attempting write grammar altaic example report results genetic relatedness borrowing host questions even thought started research researchers evaluate hypothesis started often differences viewpoint amount nothing elevation one oneself true real work field instead recognizing takes number different contributions illustrate karl teeter recent messages malice intended absolutely sure intends none modifying wording take account amramer point course people properly classify languages basis phonological correspondences teeter writes 10 december since clear everybody first approximation linguistic history begins classification say reconstruct languages basis please note words first approximation reconstruct languages bases classification alone seems tautology later message teeter reverts absolute statement contrary contention invention way establish languages related write grammar proto langauge show developed different later grammars please note words way establish using words change fact uto aztecan correctly accepted proven family without teeter criteria satisfied 8 december teeter wrote systematic correspondences sounds vocabularies may prove connection languages certainly interesting first step real work comparative grammar starts teeter mentions four possible explanations one genetic one exclude first three factors one proven nothing regarding genetic relationship teeter discounts enormous work discovering likely language families first place trivializes real work establishment systematic sound correspondences proving nothing regarding genetic relationship contrary prove grouping legitimate candidate genetic relationship often nature sound correspondences found also made one alternatives less probable work comparativehistorical grammarians real work work spend enormous hardworking hours sifting potential cognates discover potential sound correspondences teeter others really knowledge much work takes stage something ever completely proven absolute sense even comparative grammar written potential undiscovered problems kind noted sally thomas stages process contribute end result stages equally real work proof always incremental nothing complete absolute turn next mr poser message information gleaned aaa meetings perhaps mr poser surprised enthusiastically favor anyone correcting errors claims language relationship language structure including mr poser mention kimball correcting errors muskogean even especially means greenberg claim pronouns amerind weakened actually claims morphology expect greenberg least likely succeeded contributing something thank mr poser bibliography check lists corrections note muskogean pronouns also agree mr poser criticism errors data rely mere authority critic point appeals authority one mr poser paragraphs directly relevant earlier point appeals authority remains indicate mr poser message suggests critics complained errors could back say claimed greenberg errors made method worthless without bothering test whether correction errors would actually lead change conclusions without promptly providing data others could carry test conversations would judge still reluctant face test one required part claims even claims point prove wrong degree conclusions greenberg method mostly remain even errors kinds corrected still follow greenberg methods produce valid results regular basis please notice careful important notions proof anything conversation bob rankin recent aaa meetings indicated glad greenberg made attempt morphology 3rd person alternation putative relic irregularity equally likely end believing discovered new typological fact preference unmarked segments recurring conditions might alternate less way might indicate phenomenon could arise chance repeatedly always dealing simultaneously possibilities genetic relationship convergent evolution general warning danger throwing hypotheses early obviously cases chance lookalikes convergent evolution article common pathways illumination stephen jay gould harvard natural history magazine december 1994 pp 1020 discusses origins eyes different phyla animal kingdom states classic case biology used show convergent evolution originally unrelated organs serve function however dna specialists gotten hands one apparently dna regulating important parts production eyes various phyla barring course changes amino acid codes dna therefore genetically inherited talking far back common node family tree drosophila fruit flies squids humans line argument holds quite revolution thinking hands thinking course go far overboard chance lookalikes certainly exist massively sound symbolism typological basis recurrence tooeasy use chance lookalikes reject comparisons however also like tooeasy use substrate many ways purporting explain phenomena reality merely naming without hard work really explaining another factual contribution discussion greenberg errors bob rankin clarified aaa meetings looked greenberg original notebooks apparently happened greenberg single flexible flap notebook bearing language names sheets matched enter data particular lexical items mechanism subject errors two pieces paper slipping vertically relative fact rather large number errors errors rows rather columns loosely assumed without ever bothering ask rows columns mr poser originally asked 9th november whether limitations comparative method used justify resistance proposals emote relationships please take careful note wording mr poser changed wording message 14 december asserts example given gave mr poser eyewitness account satisfying wording used stand eyewitness account like naming names ever matters mr poser assertion could answered eyewitness account none mr poser supposed rebuttal recent message relevant claim though relevant another claim absurd one make previous message mr poser mixes several different wordings quite radically different hypotheses extended discussion variants would relevant central points omit specific absurd claim make quite agree mr poser people also criticize greenberg hypotheses based factual data never denied fact took pains refer good work people always emphasized importance corrections data mr poser conclusion thus appears thought real examples perceived limitations comparative method used basis rejecting proposals genetic affiliation since gave eyewitness account example perceived limitations used one basis rejecting proposals genetic affiliation mr poser maintain original assertion converting different assertion namely case person using perceived limitations read basis rejecting proposals simply repeat case eyewitness tone presentation quite clear absurdity time depth sufficient rule legitimacy attempting distant comparison critique errors greenberg data directly relevant point even engaged person apparently mr poser wants allies persons good work also nothing wrong posit division holy unclean like caste distinctions traditional india one right take position vis vis goodfaith researchers however much may disagree data results methods gather conversations aaa people involved become moderate since earlier years matters least public statements certainly good also small beginnings developments method may turn relevant current limitations perplexed mr poser discussion supposed rule using threeconsonant matches never merely twoconsonant matches although used siouxan yuchi amerindianists considering point depend slightest whether one believes two particular nodes related perhaps someone propose another alternative would suggest looking one tibeto burman perhaps one consonant one vowel tone would available yet genetic relations cases secure agree mr poser better three consonants two precisely helps avoid chance resemblances stated previous message means difference us mr poser consider treating preferred method 3 consonants permitted one probably contrary fact matches three consonants necessary exclude chance see unwilling case conclude either related relationship demonstrable problem notion particular rule could even conceivably necessary exclude chance rule necessary exclude chance large number procedures methods help exclude chance except difficult cases probably single rules violated still enough ways excluding chance good result achieved fossilization response expansions methods available part comparative method damaging increasing rigor well power field encouraging see sessions distant language relationships firmly believe sessions would occurring would much work studying methods greenberg published book growth interdisciplinary cooperation communication also process happening anyway greenberg accidentally published time trying credit causing interest particularly liked john colarusso contribution eurasian session outlined views distant language comparisons difficult progressive loss data yet business criticizing people attempt business contributing deepening linguistic mythological comparisons much areas still great extent uncharted johanna nichols also provoked much thought methods ways integrating information peripheries vs centers innovation residue repeated waves innovation visible even peripheries pattern look projecting homeland backwards time somewhat skeptical distant language comparisons involve identities sound correspondence precisely easy approach select old still relatively recent layer borrowings recent node family tree may struggling find way reach greenberg pointed increase number conditioning contexts time approaches number lexical items available comparison leads result virtually recurrences exactly sound correspondences please see separate message sharpen tools deal titled typology historical change means start somewhat skeptical alan bomhard nostratic similar comparisons precisely uses preferentially sound correspondences identity may personal bias may end granting strictness sound correspondences actually work great time depths presume know one session attend report abstract researchers reported results mitochondrial dna studies various native american populations expected eskimo athabaskan separable one variety remainder native american populations shared four varieties mitochondrial dna either without subgrouping perhaps two major subgroups bob rankin attend says authors presentation come side two major subgroups population genetics need match language directly data still least interesting obliquely relevant lloyd anderson