qvcimnfiqkwxudxmipassocorg send ietfdkim mailing list submissions gfkyhddlmipassocorg subscribe unsubscribe via world wide web visit httpmipassocorgmailmanlistinfoietfdkim via email send message subject body help qvcimnfiqkwxudxmipassocorg reach person managing list qghtrnrqbhlpvmipassocorg replying please edit subject line specific contents ietfdkim digest todays topics 1 issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages charles lindsey 2 new issue policies required close security threats charles lindsey 3 issue ssp02author signature scope narrow updates issue 1519 charles lindsey 4 issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages wietse venema 5 issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reducedns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages frank ellermann 6 unacceptable issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action frank ellermann 7 unacceptable issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action steve atkins 8 issue rename ssp asp dave crocker 9 issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reducedns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages hector santos 10 unacceptable hector santos 11 unacceptable hector santos 12 issue rename ssp asp arvel hathcock 13 issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action douglas otis 14 issue rename ssp asp hector santos 15 issue rename ssp asp mh michael hammer 5304 16 issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action hector santos 17 issue rename ssp asp wietse venema wyzclerewmanacuk sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 1 date tue 12 feb 2008 105405 0000 charles lindsey subject ietfdkim issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages dkim messageid contenttype textplain formatflowed delspyes charsetiso88591 tue 12 feb 2008 032429 0000 douglas otis wrote 4th 6th sentence change purposes section valid ssp record one syntactically semantically correct particular must match abnf taglist must include defined dkim tag must accompanied mx record author domain query may done parallel query made step 2 result query nxdomain error ssp checker must return appropriate error evaluator terminate algorithm ssp record returned without also mx record author domain signature considered fraudulent without dns transactions attempted 1 charleshlindseyathomedoingmyownthing tel441614366131 webhttpwwwcsmanacukchl emailwyzclerewmanacuksnail5clerewoodavecheadlesk83juuk pgp2c15f1a9fingerprint736dc25193a001e765e8647e14a4aba5 wyzclerewmanacuk sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 2 date tue 12 feb 2008 110523 0000 charles lindsey subject ietfdkim new issue policies required close security threats dkim messageid contenttype textplain formatflowed delspyes charsetiso88591 tue 12 feb 2008 010642 0000 hector santos wrote recommend following changesnew text section 33 ssp record syntax 33 ssp record syntax dkim outbound signing practices domain plaintext required possible values follows unknown domain may sign none email optional author domain may sign none email way signers ssp publishers dictate else may may add signatures message propagates business ssp state list expanders example expected add signatures matter routine trying say signers outsourced mail sending may may one one meaning 3rd party signing fine written ssp state subsequent signatures handled checkersevaluatorsverifierswhatever example true effect discardable option tell verifiers recommend ignore signatures deciding dispose messages fact semantics discardable probably specified way charleshlindseyathomedoingmyownthing tel441614366131 webhttpwwwcsmanacukchl emailwyzclerewmanacuksnail5clerewoodavecheadlesk83juuk pgp2c15f1a9fingerprint736dc25193a001e765e8647e14a4aba5 wyzclerewmanacuk sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 3 date tue 12 feb 2008 112821 0000 charles lindsey subject ietfdkim issue ssp02author signature scope narrow updates issue 1519 dkim messageid contenttype textplain formatflowed delspyes charsetiso88591 tue 12 feb 2008 021637 0000 douglas otis wrote limited scope author signature definition conservative author signature valid signature signing domain listed tag matches domain author address author address must also contained within scope key localpart subdomain range listed keys g tags yes definition really correct though wording might well improved author signature valid signature domain author address subdomain signing domain listed tag morover author address must also contained within scope key localpart g tag reread relevant bits rfc 4871 see effect tag ts would since restricts domain tag may domain appears play part verification process fact istm sections 35 38 contradict perhaps someone could enlighten charleshlindseyathomedoingmyownthing tel441614366131 webhttpwwwcsmanacukchl emailwyzclerewmanacuksnail5clerewoodavecheadlesk83juuk pgp2c15f1a9fingerprint736dc25193a001e765e8647e14a4aba5 vvrpgsporcupineorg sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 4 date tue 12 feb 2008 102301 0500 est vvrpgsporcupineorg wietse venema subject ietfdkim issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid 200802121523018ad931f3e99spikeporcupineorg contenttype textplain charsetusascii douglas otis better ensure minimum number dns transactions occur processing dns ssp key txt records especially domains implement email ssp draft mandate publishing mx records whenever ssp record also published since ssp discovery process makes use mx record queries determine whether domain exists ssp record returned domain published mx record thereby signals email dkim used email addresses domain strategy affords better cache hit rate ssp discovery process detection fraudulent uses domain means protect second level domains 1 per draft nxdomain reply author domain lookup already terminates ssp algorithm failure good enough dkim ssp appropriate vehicles making records mandatory ssp record returned without also mx record author domain signature considered fraudulent without dns transactions attempted _1 oppose reintroduction suspicious fraudulent etc overlyspecific interpretations failures often nonmalicious causes wietse gdqoxqxyzzyclaranetde sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 5 date tue 12 feb 2008 165325 0100 frank ellermann subject ietfdkim issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reducedns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 douglas otis wrote ssp draft mandate publishing mx records whenever ssp record also published 1 ssp asp business mandate mx records thats job mx records required 2821bis interoperability rfc 2119 clear policy arbitrary mustard since ssp discovery process makes use mx record queries determine whether domain exists could well use aaaa ns txr rp fwiw etc afaik uses mx might also used ie cached tasks mta ssp record returned domain published mx record thereby signals email dkim used email addresses mail authors domain statement mails nonexisting authors always signed suffices reject unsigned mails nonexisting authors domain without users nobrainer unrelated nonexistence mx records domain existing users permitted mail authors removing mx records suffice educate stubborn users dkim design depend smtp proposal mixes unrelated layers like general mx idea ssp feature frank gdqoxqxyzzyclaranetde sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 6 date tue 12 feb 2008 172535 0100 frank ellermann subject ietfdkim unacceptable issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 douglas otis wrote assertion discardable resolve declared problem without also increasing chances email invalid signatures discarded rather rejected dsn generated even rfc 2821 frommail within domain term mail 46 occurences rfc 4408 imo suspicious better discardable 2821bis terms discard drop adding tons caveats without noting nontechnical facts eg dropping mail violate constitution base law live level ordinary crimes personally really must invent new term instead sticking suspicious simply fail authheaders using unacceptable clearly indicates receivers already dropped ball accepted unaccptable mail frank gsdszblightycom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 7 date tue 12 feb 2008 085709 0800 steve atkins subject ietfdkim unacceptable issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action dkim list messageid contenttype textplain charsetusascii formatflowed feb 12 2008 825 frank ellermann wrote douglas otis wrote assertion discardable resolve declared problem without also increasing chances email invalid signatures discarded rather rejected dsn generated even rfc 2821 frommail within domain term mail 46 occurences rfc 4408 imo suspicious better discardable 2821bis terms discard drop adding tons caveats without noting nontechnical facts eg dropping mail violate constitution base law live level ordinary crimes personally really must invent new term instead sticking suspicious simply fail authheaders using unacceptable clearly indicates receivers already dropped ball accepted unaccptable mail doesnt match semantics ssp discardable match semantics ssp issue dont like semantics ssp implies youd prefer circumspect describing theyd valid concerns theyre quite different cheers steve otsdcrockernet sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 8 date tue 12 feb 2008 091432 0800 dave crocker subject ietfdkim issue rename ssp asp gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid 47b1d3f83070108dcrockernet contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed practices ssp describe specific rfc2822 header field defines author message seek describe practices agents email handling name specification reflect precise scope current name sender signing practices imprecise misleading name changed author signing practices asp dave crocker brandenburg internetworking bbiwnet mwbfbflsantronicscom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 9 date tue 12 feb 2008 121837 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim issue ssp02 mx record publishing mandate reducedns overhead ssp discovery detect fraudulent messages frank ellermann cc gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid 47b1d4ed1050102santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed frank ellermann wrote douglas otis wrote ssp draft mandate publishing mx records whenever ssp record also published 1 ssp asp business mandate mx records thats job mx records required 2821bis interoperability rfc 2119 clear policy arbitrary mustard 1 dkim design depend smtp proposal mixes unrelated layers like general mx idea ssp feature major 1 mx throw major shock like __________ ssp02 draft least must sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom mwbfbflsantronicscom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 10 date tue 12 feb 2008 122911 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim unacceptable steve atkins cc dkim list messageid 47b1d7679040908santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed steve atkins wrote feb 12 2008 825 frank ellermann wrote douglas otis wrote assertion discardable resolve declared problem without also increasing chances email invalid signatures discarded rather rejected dsn generated even rfc 2821 frommail within domain term mail 46 occurences rfc 4408 imo suspicious better discardable 2821bis terms discard drop adding tons caveats without noting nontechnical facts eg dropping mail violate constitution base law live level ordinary crimes personally really must invent new term instead sticking suspicious simply fail authheaders using unacceptable clearly indicates receivers already dropped ball accepted unaccptable mail doesnt match semantics ssp discardable match semantics ssp issue dont like semantics ssp implies youd prefer circumspect describing theyd valid concerns theyre quite different nothing like dislike simply doesnt jive smtp design entity email framework safely discard mail without raising technical legal eyebrows end users asp design remove mta handling considerations dkimssp mix might make sense doesnt fit general case sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom mwbfbflsantronicscom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 11 date tue 12 feb 2008 123028 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim unacceptable frank ellermann cc gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid 47b1d7b47020707santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed frank ellermann wrote douglas otis wrote assertion discardable resolve declared problem without also increasing chances email invalid signatures discarded rather rejected dsn generated even rfc 2821 frommail within domain term mail 46 occurences rfc 4408 imo suspicious better discardable 2821bis terms discard drop adding tons caveats without noting nontechnical facts eg dropping mail violate constitution base law live level ordinary crimes personally really must invent new term instead sticking suspicious simply fail authheaders using unacceptable clearly indicates receivers already dropped ball accepted unaccptable mail 1 sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom supfvcpbgbmbxaltncom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 12 date tue 12 feb 2008 113743 0600 arvel hathcock subject ietfdkim issue rename ssp asp dkim wg messageid 47b1d9676080303altncom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed name specification reflect precise scope current name sender signing practices imprecise misleading name changed author signing practices asp 1 reasons dave mentioned arvel udcatmailabuseorg sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 13 date tue 12 feb 2008 095045 0800 douglas otis subject ietfdkim issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action hector santos cc dkim list messageid 12fa13640505475caff10af4afe30199mailabuseorg contenttype textplain charsetusascii formatflowed delspyes feb 11 2008 1133 pm hector santos wrote doug way read ssp02 mta verifiers longer picture rather muas muas would discarding discardable mail domain signed author signature furthermore message arrives without valid author signature due modification transit submission via path without access signing key reason domain encourages recipients discard apples dictionary recipient person thing receives awarded something per ssp02 abstract domainkeys identified mail dkim defines domainlevel authentication framework email using publickey cryptography key server technology permit verification source contents messages either mail transport agents mtas mail user agents muas primary dkim protocol described document describes records authors domains use advertise practices regarding signing outgoing mail hosts access parse interpret records clearly ssp intended use muas mtas however discarding _not_ appropriate mta many cases message handling defined followon document one document might written use mta another mua doug mwbfbflsantronicscom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 14 date tue 12 feb 2008 125427 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim issue rename ssp asp nonlmuutbbiwnet cc gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid 47b1dd538000700santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed dave crocker wrote practices ssp describe specific rfc2822 header field defines author message seek describe practices agents email handling name specification reflect precise scope current name sender signing practices imprecise misleading name changed author signing practices asp wow final stage coup detat fascinating sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom hwgszcaagcom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 15 date tue 12 feb 2008 130310 0500 mh michael hammer 5304 subject ietfdkim issue rename ssp asp messageid contenttype textplain charsetusascii original message lrbigfuhnacdbbdmipassocorg mailtolrbigfuhnacdbbdmipassocorg behalf dave crocker sent tuesday february 12 2008 1215 pm gfkyhddlmipassocorg subject ietfdkim issue rename ssp asp practices ssp describe specific rfc2822 header field defines author message seek describe practices agents email handling name specification reflect precise scope current name sender signing practices imprecise misleading name changed author signing practices asp name change actually considered would suggest author domain signing practices adsp actually precise descriptive mike mwbfbflsantronicscom sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 16 date tue 12 feb 2008 131501 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim issue ssp02 discardable inappropriately specifies possible verifier action douglas otis cc dkim list messageid 47b1e2259090706santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed douglas otis wrote feb 11 2008 1133 pm hector santos wrote doug way read ssp02 mta verifiers longer picture rather muas muas would discarding discardable mail domain signed author signature furthermore message arrives without valid author signature due modification transit submission via path without access signing key reason domain encourages recipients discard apples dictionary recipient person thing receives awarded something smtp dictionary recipients rcptto forwarding paths aka end users per ssp02 abstract domainkeys identified mail dkim defines domainlevel authentication framework email using publickey cryptography key server technology permit verification source contents messages either mail transport agents mtas mail user agents muas primary dkim protocol described document describes records authors domains use advertise practices regarding signing outgoing mail hosts access parse interpret records clearly ssp intended use muas mtas however discarding _not_ appropriate mta many cases message handling defined followon document one document might written use mta another mua clearly happens 2 years work commandeered less 2 weeks admittedly thing beauty art mastering chaos essentially findreplace string stripped document imo borderline unethical end conflictive semantics place clearly attempt remove mta verifiers logic filtering dkim mail explicit semantics provided mua entity also need ask even ssp asp skeleton document already model ideas rfc 4871 rfc 5016 point would vote total sspasp abandonment rather risk email world questionable late minute changes without thinking much consequences sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom vvrpgsporcupineorg sun feb 24 102726 2008 message 17 date tue 12 feb 2008 132149 0500 est vvrpgsporcupineorg wietse venema subject ietfdkim issue rename ssp asp gfkyhddlmipassocorg messageid 2008021218214968fbb1f3e9cspikeporcupineorg contenttype textplain charsetusascii dave crocker practices ssp describe specific rfc2822 header field defines author message seek describe practices agents email handling name specification reflect precise scope current name sender signing practices imprecise misleading name changed author signing practices asp 1 call asp use author domain text eliminate confusion meaning wietse _______________________________________________ note well list operates according end ietfdkim digest vol 107 issue 3 tue 05 aug 2008 185535 0800 ietfdkim digest vol 107 issue 3