rich bfjgyyrpxggbneiuedu kathy final discussion determinism follows response shows first want thank participated answering query discussion made think happens uncomfortable notion causation determinism concepts emerging macro experiences described concepts bayesians must purge frequentist dogma order realize probability belief perhaps need purge need believe things unfolding causal manner 0552 pm 8272006 kathryn blackmond laskey wrote rich done good job articulating puzzle meaning random actually even worse things happening lets say x 123 chance equal x1 real randomness world would mean nothing forcing x one value another sometimes kinds situations x1 happens sometimes doesnt also somehow repetitions kind situation get proportion x1 values near 123 happen happen one possibility reason science ever discover one mysteries universe kind nonexplanation einstein jaynes couldnt stomach scientists seek explanations scientists never satisfied mystery well never understand matter much might rebel possibility cant ruled maybe random things things happen either one way another way happens given instance something happens somehow dont know happens events manage converge stable frequencies another possibility kind deterministic pseudorandom process going know build deterministic pseudorandom processes time implement stochastic algorithms maybe something like behind probabilistic phenomena observe another possibility comes game theory game theory deals systems agents choose strategy strategy rule picking actions basis agents information agent utility function represents highly agent values outcomes equilibrium set strategies one agent agents utilitymaximizing strategy conditional agents playing equilibrium strategy play equilibrium strategy kinds games mixed strategy equilibria means agents best response agents equilibrium strategies chose actions randomly according equilibrium probability distribution stable mixed strategy equilibrium expect behavior emerge looks like randomness whether agents explicitly randomizing reason agent starts make moves frequencies differ noticeably equilibrium distribution equilibrium strategy longer optimal players tend change behavior something optimal equilibrium stable make player deviated worse everyones advantage stick equilibrium frequencies game theory applied even agents question explicitly trying maximize utility need form selective pressure drives system equilibrium biology survival organisms follow nearequilibrium strategies higher chance survival organisms deviate far equilibrium strategies organisms approximately given prevailing environmental conditions behave like trying survive tend evolve economics market pressure firms consumers deviate far equilibrium strategies driven market agents dont need conceive utility maximizers doubt bacteria concept game theory applied extensively biology biological systems usefully thought optimizing survival probability perhaps many phenomena seem random arise system structure game stable mixedstragegy equilibrium agents system actions choose something makes choose particular actions agents biological biological drives instincts cause choices make human agents addition biological drives instincts also values beliefs choose basis drives insincts perhaps values beliefs details makes inherently unobservable external systems scientists studying survival pressure market pressure creates conditions stable probabilities emerge dont think answers question dont think science yet answer question hope scientists dont stop asking question dont rule possibility happens well ever get matter hard try better dont even try even explanation wont get wrote list want forward list please feel free kathy kathy thanks much discussion reasons wont go currently sometimes send emails address sometimes always easier receive one whole matter probabilistic guess statement summarizes let et existence time random number generated time based et determinism based something et based something exist contradicts notion existence therefore indeterminism must conclude random number base anything happens would agree reference decent paper happens rich wed 06 aug 2008 190822 0500 uai determinism verses chance