harleyargotech robert harley reza bfar wrote thread kind surprises started coding c c moved java think looks like case experience comprehensive anecdotal dont know theyre talking 1 people pay wages dont give flyin heck programming language write things want work experience care work certainly particular work theyve already got work clients systems limited experience java started years ago support linux terrible ran away screaming havent come back yet microsoft announced plan remove java windows took xp already installed service pack somehow cant imagine removing ability run c programs 2 c c forces developer solve problems memory management cant say spend noticeable amount time memory management issues apart fact frequently need 4 gb design patterns architecture high level stuff problem requires application design pattern solve trivial anyway irrespective language amazed amount time wasted people talking low level problems solved 10 million times appear gratuitously asserting c programmers waste time irrelevant lowlevel problems java programmers dont depends entirely programmer language 3 java programming language also platform buzzword monolithic set apis crap load different apis slicing dicing problems 50 different ways unsupported assertion 4 program type high complexity written c cant possibly think could port different platforms within magnitude cost java dunno eg ported wee 15000line c program darwin powerpc minutes yesterday sure badly designed would 10 times size harder port depended unavailable libraries would much harder portable code easy port least case language used available target platform also run arm systems proper java 5 makes sense scientific business project depend person java imho reduces dependence entities individual developer much easier reverse engineer java reverse engineer c large applications pay good programmer solve problem else get kids hack spaghetti fortran language pay maintenance headaches ad infinitum 6 hardware getting fast im sure performance difference java cc relevant whoah performance matters every day right im taking time write email waiting job run sure could wait 5 years everyones pc fast enough generate random ecs time twit able program inefficient code fast enough market overrun competitors people end goal scientific business problem solved yes problems languages java smalltalk others allow think high level low level thinking bits bytes takes much gray matter away real important problems true admit everything mea maxima culpa working c makes spend day thinking base rank thoughts hardcore bitography actually spend time thinking highlevel mathematics computer scientists insist solving problems dunno frankly dont see relevance issue hand im sure java fine stuff c whatever horses courses bye rob _ mon 2 sep 2002 115455 0200 cest java kiddies