jeff rush wgqvtauprocom phillip j eby wrote 0357 3192008 0500 jeff rush wrote open giving certain others patch viewcommit privileges setuptools jim fulton already im open extending others good grasp subtleties involved truthfully get 06 put bed could probably open trunk lot wider needed put 06 bed help accelerate probably frustrating thing chief amongst frustrating things setuptools development black hole mean backward compatibility cruft accretion make difficult get beginning distutils distutils begat setuptools setuptools begat virtualenv zcbuildout source control plugins etc etc ive found past revisiting basic principles objectives communicated enhanced documentation help clear black holes im pulling something together recent emails archived threads definitely tangled though ill agree think really needed long run keep eggs get rid setuptools distutils current form theres lot brokenness also lot accumulated cruft really need distutils 3000 needs built better approach require lot concensus building well collection use cases architecture team encompass aspects personally aware youve said hard address itches certainly possible someone create parallel packaging moduleset uses existing eggs format pypi without currently codebase proven work lobby distutils 3000 frankly id like see setuptools exploded parts general use folded back standard library creation set nonimplementationspecific documents distribution formats behavior leaving small core one implementation door open others compete implementation truth real motivation pep 365s bootstrap tool isnt much support package management tools today support new one tomorrow ideas ways shift paradigm individual projects get built incorporate many scenarios dont work well implement things nextgeneration tool want restricted whats stdlib bundled tool document ideas someplace start getting community input lot diverse opinions right way way ahead quite unclear think probably getting close time stepped daytoday management codebase like monthtomonth quartertoquarter lately probably lot easier step back critique stuff goes fact go stuff beforehand im sure exactly go handoff though guess need bugpatch tracker people review test apply maybe transitional period say yea nay let others test apply opening entirely way perhaps solidify principles id like stay place like arbitrary postinstall code hooks ill see tracker identify people help btw offtopic question chance jeff rush invented echomail yep thats many remember fidonet days designed echomail napkin dfw sysop pizza party conversation unused capability interbbs private file transfers escaped ecosystem spread like wildfire almost getting banned fidonet jeff _______________________________________________ pythondev mailing list zvlllneumpythonorg httpmailpythonorgmailmanlistinfopythondev unsubscribe httpmailpythonorgmailmanoptionspythondevpythondev40tangomucom wed 06 aug 2008 103404 0500 pythondev capsule summary packagingdeployment technology concerns