kathryn blackmond laskey voqydpjgmuedu dear rich based everything e happens point time something r ends happening next instant event deterministically determined e determine something made happen even random number generator determines happens next conclude events deterministically produced hard time conceiving anything else guess einstein jaynes also alternative number happens mean ah key question isnt many people conceive things happen feel must determined something scientists looked hard something would predict happens best probabilities conditioned actions prior states consider set situations absolutely identical respect everything relevant predicting future except choice action performed actual outcome occurs consequence action free actualize action want within possibilities allowed quantum theory choice free technical sense unconstrained way laws physics indeed physics doesnt predict probabilities given chosen given action outcomes consistent action occur outcomes governed stochastic law sense graded proper scoring rule would well advised predict probabilities specified quantum theory many many tests conducted thus far probabilities confirmed many digits accuracy interested question made stochastic events occur also interested laws nature govern choices action open current physics nothing say sciences current models actions entirely phenomenological dont fundamental theories kinds systems make quantum events happen constraints might kind quantum events cause many physicists dont believe quantum events real phenomena nature one able develop consistent quantum theory without philosophical stance happens could mean looking wrote note huge literature question reading doesnt seem anyone anywhere near resolving issue way would satisfying personally dont much idea happens might mean untenable insist nature deterministic personally trouble conceiving anything except deterministic phenomena nature regardless whether something conceive maybe deterministic rule producing pseudorandom numbers maybe truly random process going either way probabilistic predictions quantum theory stunningly accurate someone grading accuracy would well use feel perhaps humans unevolved grasp determinismindeterminism grasp enough torment notion torment could fun good philosophy debate model external reality assuming one exists amoeba perhaps future species much better us things understand today didnt three things humanity understands today didnt century ago perhaps day ill understand perhaps day someone reach better understanding teach rest humanity well move tormenting things fun things take pick kathy thu 07 aug 2008 051908 0400 uai rich neaolitans rsponse determinism discussion kathy l