sum vowel length orthographies weeks ago posted query orthographic marking vowel length special reference korean received many interesting replies korean general question summarise whole topic raises issues people might like comment first though thanks everyone took trouble send information first linglist query delighted way works would taken ages assemble examples library research first surprised get lot replies suggesting examples languages dont mark vowel length english german realised clearer original request fox put problem well question query writing vowel length slightly odd since implies languages contrastive vowellength writing system represents depends mean representing vowellength sense explicit consistent marker length double letter diacritic length mark common least languages familiar length implicitly marked variety ways therefore discoverable spelling anyone literate native speaker knows system intended include things ways representing vowel length definitely cases vowel length represented feature right macron double symbol etc wanted examples languages extensive system minimal pairs differentiated wholly mainly vowel length identical orthographic representations members pairs situation korean quite largish set words one two syllables definitely situation english german canadian french danish etc dont think situation latin either though might wrong would glad correction quite languages suggested vowel length predictable aspect word including lexical identity dont actually get many minimal pairs differentiated length right would appear case hausa possibly estonian vowel length contrast estonian bit rusty would right guessing full three way contrast fairly limited however several pacific languages mentioned seem fit bill tokelauan samoan maori fijian ponapeic languages candidates would call genuine length contrast although seems maori rate system contrasts quite limited least sometimes shown orthography seems australian language bardi orthography doesnt show thing found interesting number people sent anecdotal evidence native speakers languages feel marking vowel length writing systems course relatively recent introductions based roman alphabet plenty ways could show vowel length dont always use potential seems apparently speakers ponapeic languages use length marking inconsistently fijian speakers maori speakers find unnatural dont like using tokelauan teachers decided teach samoa use length marker banned seems something worth exploring obvious hypothesis though words differentiated phonetically length distinction salient native speakers next obvious hypothesis kind lexical distinction similar english good vs food boot vs oot look vs loop etc perfectly simple native speakers horrible learners could also explain gaelic taken opposite trend started marking vowel length never used since used much nowadays less fully native speakers thoughts hypotheses would gratefully received back korean still seems like unusual situation seems likely indeed suggested korean respondents original hangul length marker found evidence research hangul posted orginal query another look ledyard thesis topic maybe need careful research pointers also gratefully received couple points clarification distinction monosyllabic vowel length minimal pairs seem dying though fact previously existed marked writing system time find odd could lack orthographic representation contributes demise clear distinction sound two syllable pairs ears distinction seems much one pitch accent length said native speakers dont easily identify vowel length didnt mean say language doesnt vowel length distinction would indeed statement cautious meant dont know word supposed long vowel short consistent information sent native speakers something taught schools prescriptive rule well anyone read far let reward sharing response fran karttunen hope doesnt mind dont know exactly interpret respect questions sure something us maya nahua speakers unrelated mesoamerican languages achieved partiallysyllabic approach writing arrival europeans first quarter 16th century tell writing made use rhebus principles drawing thing name similar rather identical used suggest intended word syllable instance drawing bare bottom tzintli buttocks used honorific suffix tzin likewise drawing banner pantli used locative pan two examples suffixes similar cases initial syllables nahuatl noun stems instance vowel length least nahuatl taken account cases honorific suffix today reflex long vowel modern dialects nahuatl making homophonous stem buttocks attestation sixteenth century consistently show contrast vowel length short honorific long buttocks banner long vowel versus locative short thanks respondents listed acknowledgment hope ok preparing summary already taken long keen go give proper said acknowledgments helen wechsler world std com allan c wechsler rcosper husky1 stmarys ca ronald cosper fran karttunen liar457 utxvms cc utexas edu shelly uniwa uwa edu au shelly harrison pulju ricevm1 rice edu gshin rs6 chonnam ac kr gyonggu shin ian green anu edu au ian green geoffn siu edu geoffrey nathan mdr412 coombs anu edu au malcolm ross jussi karlgren sics se kenneth de jong kdejong indiana edu laurie bauer vuw ac nz lance eccles lance eccles mq edu au j rea jarea ukcc uky edu jihualde ux1 cso uiuc edu henry rogers rogers epas utoronto ca brian joseph bjoseph magnus acs ohiostate edu david fertig fertig acsu buffalo edu david gil ellgild nusvm bitnet cunyvm cuny edu stavros macrakis macrakis osf org marc picard picard vax2 concordia ca charles scott cscott macc wisc edu lars mathiesen u copenhagen cs dep thorinn diku dk mark aronoff maronoff datalab2 sbs sunysb edu caoimhin sabhalmor ostaig ac uk caoimhin p odonnaile jaejung song stonebow otago ac nz jaejung song c fox lnp6atcf lucsmac novell leeds ac uk mjulien isl uit marit julien blaine erickson erickson uhunix uhcc hawaii edu _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ hfraser metz une edu au 129 180 4 1 helen fraser dr dept linguistics university new england armidale nsw 2351 australia phone 067 73 2128 3189 fax 067 73 3735