text_combined: british vs american griffin bacal internet mail direct inquiries postmaster gbinc com 8 7 97 2 36 pm british vs american summary received number helpful insightful replies response question differences british american pronunciations ae vs foreign loan words france pasta nicaragua et al thought might nice pass list typically nice mix agreement disagreement among responses esp issue whether americans loyal source languages britons also observations british changes native stress patterns noticed dining british colleagues order creme bru lee dessert one question one answered yet though british english pronunciation jacques chirac jacques something like chirac ae non french stress first syllable chirac explained already anyway responses received thanks david weiss david _ weiss gbinc com 1 noticed also british likely anglicize sense using english pronunciations especially vowels perhaps habit comes lengthy use latin learned language middle ages believe common adapt latin language host country example long latin generally said post vowel shift e ej england still whereas north america generally use classical pronunciation low vowel instance cite frans vs fraens recent development british speech ae lowered certain consonants although invariably example laugh half castle fasten plant aunt lower vowel prevails standard british english least seem noticed possible pasta borrowed british english vowel lowering took place might explain lack lowering instance also lowering seem entirely phonologically conditioned e g ant aent vs aunt nt pants may british nt believe vowel lowered either possibly new borrowing american english dr ronald cosper ronald cosper stmarys ca 2 david quick response article linguist list british american fair amount exposure accents english seems situation nt conclusive many british speakers believe retain right naturalise anglicise foreign words names americans problems done differently look recent french borrowings british generally naturalised terms stress pattern therefore garage ballet beret buffet massage follow pattern older borrowings like village damage whereas americans keep foreign sounding stressing second syllable cases uk garage rhyme carriage buffet little miss muffet hand older brits still reserve right pronounce trait final silent french unlike americans mentioned france chance ance however think non european names like iran pakistan one stereotype american pronunciation eye ran packis stan moving v ae distinction mentioned think fact american man almost universally pronounced ae perhaps exception southerners uk hand ae mainly south move northern england wales scotland sound e close european sounds german mann path car also close also get northern ireland republic therefore southern english speaker would used naturalising item said using scots northern etc accent thus man maen would therefore apply rule european names peter tan elltankw nus sg 3 hi writing back net nothing really substantive add observation except say nt names listen british pronunciation lasagna pasta well ae wanted say named process mangle new phonological rule ae foreign even widely take foreign word pronounce somehow way foreigners would pronounce see replying whole net noticed speech fatherin law leeds love dearly insists saying paest pasta would never correct aware since six months living britain couple years ago confirmed observation noted well looking forward seeing serious responses look like margaret e winters mew1 siu edu 4 general rule british english make stressed foreign words ae u piano france nt follow pattern anglicized long ago follows another general pattern south english dialects couple centuries old turn historical short low front ae certain fricatives without nasal hence bath castle fast lance last france etc south england northerners kept ae pronunciation americans outside boston area word bath good shibboleth northerners vs southerners england think recall reading historyof english text ae cut dried rule exceptionless change however want think cant recall exactly rule stated perhaps fricative cluster note words ending ash undergo change sure lengthening r l relates change arse half got lost liquids north south england america outside boston try pyles algeo history english want know particular change suzanne kemmer kemmer ruf rice edu 5 mr weiss entirely sure non english relevant parameter recently returned southwest number people pronounce colorado ae pronunciation national news announcers reporting recent colorado floods also use native southern new england always heard word pronounced systematically exclusively americans perhaps suggest spanish origin recent experience shows pronunciation clearly one available variation also occurs american pronunciations vietnam using others using ae native english words also participate phenomenon addition aunt wellknown example words bath path laugh often pronounced ae parts new england last four words native pronunciation ae although find sometimes using aunt perhaps influence worcesterese george aubin gaubin eve assumption edu 6 seems sound represented european languages lies english father ae pan brits tend slide forward pronouncing words padre americans tend slide back except great lakes speakers shifted towards center nt shift either case assimilating nonexistent phone phonological system nt think either loyal similar phenomenon happens french rounded high front vowel tu speakers different languages english speakers nt get right tend make high rounded back vowel u spanish speakers tend pronounce high unrounded front vowel reason may related subtle shifts location native vowels customs teaching l2s michael newman mn24 is6 nyu edu 7 hi david query linguist list foreign pronunciation passed mark liberman indicated response completed phd dissertation subject central phenomenon study one noticed difference american british treatment foreign pattern observed indeed main pattern divergence dialects americans tend use father words like pasta mazda brits tend use ae fat american usage really akin using pot since americans outside new england merged father bother rhyme divergence dialects concentrated predominantly closed potentially closed syllables open potentially open syllables dialects use americans brits alike pronounce llama bravado nirvana etc good article geoff lindsey 1990 volume edited ramsaran called studies pronunciation english shows br difference extends vowels reflects basic difference organization br vowel systems vowels contrast along tenselax dimension br along longshort dimension charles boberg cboberg unagi cis upenn edu 8 discussion larry trask american born vasconist working england u sussex think cced hi larry based discussion think codify phenomenon describe 1 british nativize foreign words much aggressively americans couple examples unrelated ae issue juan sp xwan dan wan br dan zu n quixote sp ki xo te dan ki ho ti br dan kwik sot 2 relatively recent innovation 1700 think south england original ae backed syllables whose coda contains fricative hence grass n eng graes eng gras examples past dance entrancing chaff rather explains frans anomalous attempt retain foreign purely southern english exactly would expect original ae 3 pasta anomalous account would expect eng past telling say paest larry 4 syllable question gets farther end morpheme things get murky rascal ras kl raes kl sound plausibly londony vasconist try might cant imagine anyone ever eton oxford saying vas k nist hear vaes foregoing blurred distinction lowmid low back english vowel think looks little like ipa true oxonians nearly gag every time say rather allan wechsler awechsle bbn com 9 dear david nice question reason actually differing vowel systems us uk back us use words like milan exist closest vowel hear france back vowel either occurs 1 result loss rhoticity car cart 2 rp southern english voiceless fricatives bath clusters starting nasal dance france similar vowel french therefore coincidence case 2 change 17 18th century front ae pronounce milan way would make sound like spelt milarn exception speakers pronunciation pakistan 2 northerner use ae bath france words like pakistan iraq iran woops zimbabwe may many us use entered language since vowel available regards maik gibson maik azariah org uk