text_combined: grammatical relations derived notions two months ago posted query somewhat abbreviated ran follows time puzzled claim come across frequently formal grammatical literature namely since grammatical relations derived therefore referred grammar specifically puzzlement concerned people believe grammatical relations derived grammatical relations referred grammar rather think second belief follows necessarily first would grateful enlightenment issue query nt elicit vast number responses maybe conclude people nt really interested issue might interested summarize responses first one defended position criticized indeed general tenor explicit implicit responses position erroneous thus inclined continue believing error unfortunately crept literature one hope disappear people pointed specific examples linguistics sciences derived notions play crucial role making meaningful argue correct derived notions second people suggested appear make claim question might really trying say something different e g simply grammar refer directly grammatical relations examination two recent instances encountered prompted post query shows make sense claim interpreted literally suggested third people asked cite references claim made prefer 1 nt aim embarrass anyone front whole list others much better 2 would unfair authors two instances encountered recently remember nt see cite especially linguists whose work respect happen remember go uncited happy erroneous claim nt appear future grateful following responses dan finer f lehman adam meyers fritz newmeyer sebastian shaumyan jean roger vergnaud bernard comrie comrie bcf usc edu bernard comrie dept linguistics gfs301 tel 1 213 740 2986 university southern california fax 1 213 740 9306 los angeles ca 900891693 usa email comrie bcf usc edu