text_combined: stephen liu avzeaagyahoocom hi mouss problem solves follow nano etcprocmailrc copying following 3 lines dropprivsyes orgmailhomemaildir defaultorgmail end keeping line mailbox_command procmail extension etcpostfixmaincf incoming mails delivered respective homemaildir br stephen l mouss wrote stephen liu wrote snip feb 14 225230 mail postfixsmtpd6050 warning support restriction reject_maps_rbl wi removed postfix use reject_rbl_client domainname instead related problem fix things like reject_rbl_client zenspamhausorg reject_rbl_client koreaservicesnet snip feb 14 225230 mail postfixqmgr6047 396cadf00ed removed new mail varmailsatimis mail delivered varmailsatimis mbox end ls al varmailsatimis rwrw 1 satimis mail 98754 20080214 2252 varmailsatimis ls l maildir total 24 drwx 2 satimis satimis 4096 20080214 2253 courierimapkeywords rwrr 1 satimis satimis 36 20071206 1033 courierimapsubscribed rwrr 1 satimis satimis 17 20080214 2047 courierimapuiddb drwx 2 satimis satimis 4096 20080214 2047 cur drwx 2 satimis satimis 4096 20080214 2046 new drwx 2 satimis satimis 4096 20080214 2255 tmp ls l maildirnew total 0 ls l maildircur total 0 ls l maildirtmp mails never arrive destination rejected mail delivered mbox varmailsatimis mbox want deliver somewhere else youll need configure maildrop since using courier consider using maildrop instead procmail maildrop part courier package work authdaemon already use via courierimap courierpop send instant messages online friends httpukmessengeryahoocom udcatmailabuseorg sat apr 26 154954 2008 message 4 date sat 16 feb 2008 052015 0800 douglas otis subject ietfdkim issue 1547 ssp02 mx record publishing mandateto reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detectfraudulent messages hector santos cc dkim list mh michael hammer 5304 messageid contenttype textplain charsetusascii formatflowed delspyes feb 15 2008 1105 pm hector santos wrote douglas otis wrote feb 15 2008 349 pm damon wrote case need tie breaker 1 summarize bunch 1 says little know dont hate call follow chieftain syndrome opinion votes came reason explanation position might help sway others push back generated concept dkim policy applicable transport protocols might bridged smtp doug record mx lookup must ssp record discovery setup imo prefer may even historically requirement therefore highly possible mx exist horse died leaving barn mx mandate discovery record would imposed domains 1 implemented dkim 2 published dkim policy record scheme impact domains publishing dkim policy records correct mx record may never published cases would nice impose simple limitation domain tree walking polices mandating discovery record mx case smtp published along policy records existence two records provides means detect fraudulent use domain without examining record content approach tolerates policy record format changes still safely minimizing impact daily onslaught spoofed references existing domains even handle messages mandate would offered means squelch series policy key transactions cases invalid signature may occur many reasons leaves result category significantly weaker finding domain publishing policy record without also publishing discovery record technically approach creates problem domain uses dkim publishes policy record support smtp messages converted protocol gateway smtp policy discovery record check would detect smtp supported return path instantiated protocol gateway could provide conversion dsns domain return path would unrelated dkim signature yes might seen disadvantage also closes avenue abuse controlled dkim limitation would induce assurance direct return path domain would indicating dont want protocol translation gives originating domain greater control dummy records might published achieve desired effect keep mind steps ssp recommendation long end result people dont follow steps possible mx lookup already done places mx record queried policy record found check existence domain mx record accessed recently could cache mandate publish policy discovery records together would greater advantage checking mx record look way way view keep must mx lookup requirement ssp discovery steps 1 would agree also must addinghaving mx record x822from domain used domains new dkim signing mail operations logic would way around would seem wg wishes keep options open adding scope policy record effect possible somewhat larger policy records less problem idea general dkim deployment recommendation domains consider even possibly recommendation mx record x822from standpoint dkimssp protocol consistency especially differs return path sender domains represents minority view however ability clearly indicate whether message fraudulent without incurring additional transactions also important general domain protection standpoint jim right policy made include scope also offers flexible workable solution message abuse demand negotiated changes accommodated extent policy assertions keeping lid added overhead represents remaining challenged 1 youre right important part implementation considerations consider mandate x822from mx must also least allow verifier policy based handling removed current emasculated model pairing policydiscovery records content policy record matter preventing spoofing existent domains support smtp hand term discardable instead strict sole exclusive words effect means transactional domains wishing thwart spoofing instead likely find much communications lost take time signature integrity mature problem due mailinglists discardable term likely ensure needed level integrity never occurs much essential feedback whether domain spoofed whether signature integrity problem likely lost since policies allowed implementators optimize scale dkim processing removal reduces mda adoption incentive dkim verification thus little payoff resulting additional overhead less reason even bother overhead dkim value mua scaling overhead much less problem triage process mta could guided policy assertions dkim validation mta may limited domains history targeted abuse domains unwilling make signature assurances filtering must relaxed reduce rate false positives regard appears agreement ssp01 better respect seem problem signatures added thirdparties however admitting understanding thread doug mwbfbflsantronicscom sat apr 26 154954 2008 message 5 date sat 16 feb 2008 112406 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim issue 1547 ssp02 mx record publishing mandateto reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detectfraudulent messages douglas otis cc dkim list mh michael hammer 5304 messageid 47b70e2610105santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed douglas otis wrote technically approach creates problem domain uses dkim publishes policy record support smtp well saw thread input since 80s multimail format networkinggateway products served millions course time think pretty good idea practical aspects primarily idea attempting obtain gateway perfection persistent mail integrity dkim transformation processes expecting bit much small part system major framework user option preserve mime yesno preserving mime tells gateway import save mail raw save local proprietary format text separated attachments preserving mime become important years customers users began use offline readers eg pop3 news readers era html mail acceptable another reason users turning option customers security reasons dont even offer option users save users mail native format important comes type mua question keep focus dkim x822 mail system imv regardless x822 mail sent moved gated transformed retransformed still x822 system finally gets ever messages converted protocol gateway smtp policydiscovery record check would detect smtp supported think proposing method domain declare policy says expect mail purported originate qwk fidonet news nntp xyz protocol posted system sounds like good idea think overkill believe benefits using policies restrict 3rd party signatures dkim value mua scaling overhead much less problem depends kind mua referring online offline see vendors deal design implementations many mail reading device methods online offline offline mua different considerations online mua ignore dkim users want pickup mail via pop3 think online users think good reason chaotic discussions subjective product designs imposing feature list everyone else instead focus functional logical points fundamental protocol let implementators decide best fits product lines instead get people mandating cant might ok made sense considerations general case systems really isnt hard either sign dont idea vendor product independent want know domain intended expected asked begin looking new level mail information ok looked see really simple concept always expect 1st signature yeah ok well dont see one reject message sometimes ok fine status quo expect 3rd party signature ok reject dont care ok fine status quo etc etc really dont see matters sent preferred type burglar knocking door sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom nonlmuutbbiwnet sat apr 26 154954 2008 message 6 date sat 16 feb 2008 115331 0800 dave crocker subject ietfdkim admin mipassocorg dkimorg mailing list host change 21617 16pm pacific tme undisclosedrecipients messageid 47b73f3b9090905bbiwnet contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed folks scheduled transition mipassocorg dkimorg accounts including mailing lists archives web pages take place today starting 1pm pacific time 1 hour moved new machine message posting subscription changing access disabled outage goes well never operations work accessible within hour expected worstcase outage 6pm pacific time today effect transfers otherwise invisible everyone accessing sites experience change problem please let know immediately dhcnoticedcrockernet nonlmuutbbiwnet ok might take longer see call 14082468253 dave crocker brandenburg internetworking bbiwnet _______________________________________________ note well list operates according end ietfdkim digest vol 107 issue 11 wed 06 aug 2008 190233 0800 users cant receive mails solved