text_combined: craig rhughes craigdeersoftcom thursday august 8 2002 0905 gregory sloop wrote agree think gaming system system spamassassin included extra work yes definitely extra work question much extra work front ongoing basis know nothing trust system working still waiting longpromised server code published turned info thats coming concerned im becoming extremely easy game initial amount work set gaming agent low set fire forget terms continuing operate way thats easy distinguish real user behavior sure find way work almost system users spammers actually take time game system another concern way system might working might actually require many gamers utterly undermine whole system certain number possible universes trust system sensitive liars misclassifiers gray mail clear yet whether universe one means might system less 100 effective perfect accuracy effectiveness comes prohibitive cost complex systems time numbing hours coding etc need certain level accuracy though filter economically worthwhile filter 75 spam youre wasting time people receive order 101 ratio spamreal mail 75 means ratio adjusts 52 still shitty 95 makes 12 better 99 makes 110 quite nice global ratio spammail rises problem gets somewhat important order magnitude worsening incoming spamreal ratio 1001 99 effective still works ok 75 effective really really shitty cant vouch razor currently im knowledgeable suspect current route picked fairly simple impliment least think work decently completely without fault time tell time also tell good system adjusting time gaming strategies put garbage results sa simply blocks spam without many false positives sa definitely nonzero fp rate always would argue system nonzero fp rate including filter filter humans make mistakes sometimes spammer strategies evolve time though im fairly sure sa able adjust compensate spammers figure easily pollute spamnet trust system im sure easy itll replace trust system something else perhaps craig theorizing thought id offer two itybits lots theorizing based little data key premises im worrying though 1 trust system easy pollute 2 trust system personal makes assumption honest voters agree constitutes spam somthing simple actually implimented works reasonably well better somthing works perfectly never implimented cost rub everyone defines reasonably well dramatically different ways grin evidenced masses think microsofts stuff works resaonably well _bah_ keep fully employed sigh razor2 seems long time coming apparently quite resource intensive judging cloudmarks fundraising efforts doesnt currently work great promise im hoping wrinkles worked itll add another powerful tool war spam im concerned getting wrong foot might able recover c sfnet email sponsored bythinkgeek welcome geek heaven httpthinkgeekcomsf _______________________________________________ razorusers mailing list razoruserslistssourceforgenet httpslistssourceforgenetlistslistinforazorusers thu 8 aug 2002 133615 0700 razorusers whats wrong razor servers