text_combined: qvcimnfiqkwxudxmipassocorg send ietfdkim mailing list submissions gfkyhddlmipassocorg subscribe unsubscribe via world wide web visit httpmipassocorgmailmanlistinfoietfdkim via email send message subject body help qvcimnfiqkwxudxmipassocorg reach person managing list qghtrnrqbhlpvmipassocorg replying please edit subject line specific contents ietfdkim digest todays topics 1 issue 1547 ssp02 mx record publishing mandateto reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detectfraudulent messages douglas otis 2 issue 1547 ssp02 mx record publishing mandateto reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detectfraudulent messages hector santos udcatmailabuseorg sun feb 24 103040 2008 message 1 date sun 17 feb 2008 051957 0800 douglas otis subject ietfdkim issue 1547 ssp02 mx record publishing mandateto reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detectfraudulent messages hector santos cc dkim list messageid 96b6e17163ec42e1ab0a15a77b4b04f8mailabuseorg contenttype textplain charsetusascii formatflowed delspyes feb 16 2008 824 hector santos wrote technically approach creates problem domain uses dkim publishes policy record support smtp well saw thread input since 80s multimail format networkinggateway products served millions course time think pretty good idea practical aspects primarily idea attempting obtain gateway perfection persistent mail integrity dkim transformation processes expecting bit much public protocols may implement dkim messages enter smtp infrastructure result future may require policy based upon public transport carrying message treat dkim protecting messages related smtp infrastructure preserving mime tells gateway import save mail raw save local proprietary format text separated attachments preserving mime become important years customers users began use offline readers eg pop3 news readers era html mail acceptable another reason users turning option customers security reasons dont even offer option users save users mail native format important comes type mua question less secure means deal delivery corruption would rely something like authenticationresults headers assured filtered border mtas awhile approach trusted generally distributed applications keep focus dkim x822 mail system imv regardless x822 mail sent moved gated transformed retransformed still x822 system finally gets ever domains may wish declare smtp messages signed time sign news im messages domains may also wish declare news im messages sent limit risk caused gateways apply different policy messages carried different public transports introduced smtp infrastructure needs qualified either policy records scope public transport policy record must limited messages destine smtp infrastructure public transport policies enter smtp infrastructure published separately keeping policy one record would help simplify application policy public protocol gateways otherwise dkim policy must published separately likely structured differently scoping information gateways bridging public protocols would need apply policy based upon destination protocol likely might cause messages considered noncompliant b internally track display public reception protocol unlikely tolerant approach messages converted protocol gateway smtp policydiscovery record check would detect smtp supported think proposing method domain declare policy says expect mail purported originate qwk fidonet news nntp xyz protocol posted system sounds like good idea think overkill believe benefits using policies restrict 3rd party signatures expectation seeing firstparty signature causes message categorized noncompliant expectation needs calibrated public transport communication become disrupted needlessly policy based upon public transport appears essential otherwise dkim dkim signing im news message dkim value mua scaling overhead much less problem depends kind mua referring online offline see vendors deal design implementations many mail reading device methods online offline offline mua different considerations online mua ignore dkim users want pickup mail via pop3 think online users think good reason chaotic discussions subjective product designs imposing feature list everyone else extension supporting offline message validation could offer authenticationresults header includes declaration public transport related public keys policy whether ever happens depends upon marketplace free low cost solutions online check plugins already available instead focus functional logical points fundamental protocol let implementators decide best fits product lines agreed instead get people mandating cant might ok made sense considerations general case systems dkim may provide basis reputation replacing use ip address becomes important ipv6 use increases dkim provided simple autonomous means authorize third party providers expecting thirdparty providers hold thousands domains private keys within online servers unwise security standpoint domains using thirdparty providers setting dns delegations cnames exchanging keys applying customer specific signatures expensive manage error prone addition unsafe really isnt hard either sign dont idea vendor product independent want know domain intended expected asked begin looking new level mail information ok looked see really simple concept always expect 1st signature yeah ok well dont see one reject message sometimes ok fine status quo assurance guarding original signature strict assertion changed discardable dont even bother reject worthless category messages strict assertion could beneficial expect 3rd party signature ok reject dont care ok fine status quo statement confusing mean signature added already signed message leads rejection b domain signed signature damaged removed acceptable thirdparty signature added meant b would agree etc etc really dont see matters sent preferred type burglar knocking door many different doors could helped dkim might expectation knocking front door validate affiliation may different expectations back door difference might simply buying wares back door someone escorts front door might asked validate affiliation although likely unprepared moving everyone common doorway may seem ideal creates significant problem front door carries greater obligation different doors need different policies different levels trust based upon door used distant point future perhaps doors treated time arrived doug mwbfbflsantronicscom sun feb 24 103040 2008 message 2 date sun 17 feb 2008 123240 0500 hector santos subject ietfdkim issue 1547 ssp02 mx record publishing mandateto reduce dns overhead ssp discovery detectfraudulent messages douglas otis cc dkim list messageid 47b86fb88010201santronicscom contenttype textplain charsetiso88591 formatflowed douglas otis wrote really dont see matters sent preferred type burglar knocking door many different doors could helped dkim might expectation knocking front door validate affiliation may different expectations back door difference might simply buying wares back door someone escorts front door might asked validate affiliation although likely unprepared moving everyone common doorway may seem ideal creates significant problem front door carries greater obligation different doors need different policies different levels trust based upon door used distant point future perhaps doors treated time arrived doug time came long ago remember predominately anonymous vs nonanonymous transactions systems always treaty anonymous nonanonymous transactions differently anonymous back door last thing want although strongly appears asp model promoting sincerely hector santos cto httpwwwsantronicscom httpsantronicsblogspotcom _______________________________________________ note well list operates according end ietfdkim digest vol 107 issue 12 wed 06 aug 2008 074522 0800 ietfdkim digest vol 107 issue 12