so that's done some work on that, and there's now four models for training, one is the, you know, on the job, evenings, training, there's the weekend model of getting people together for the weekend, there's the sort of summer school idea and the other one's the one that doug keeps reminding me about, which i keep forgetting about which is the distance learning one, er we, i think this is the one he thinks is running in dundee, that maybe help with because the idea of developing a pack which is kind of trainer proof