erm, on page thirty you talk about the erm employer's federation in the er minimum terms and conditions, well i'm only hoping that my own firm securicor don't have any er input into that, because er as you know they unilaterally reduced all the terms and conditions securicor guarding and cleaning recently  erm i'd like to know when we intend meeting with securicor cleaner i do know you've written to them on a number of occasions and their refusal to meet with us.