erm, well i think it's,do , erm i don't know whether you understand what's been asked doctor  it cou it's a question of costs, er normally where er matters erm are dealt with in chambers for  in counsel appear then erm these counsel don't get paid for the other side erm unless there is certificate for counsel as i understand it, were the, were the counsel appeared before the judge erm they are entitled to their costs  and this is er an appeal to the judge, but er what i think mr  is saying is, in case he happens to be wrong in that he would like an order that er his fees should be proper fees of the defen of the plaintiffs on this appeal and er such  as you could say seems to me that er, that is a, that would be proper