we can't go on paying ourselves that sort of money, we can't go on, and mr  i know in a minute we'll talk about the number of people who attend committee meetings erm and sit in on them, and that's increased considerably, erm, so i think it's important that we do get down to this problem, we grasp the nettle, and i, i believe that will mean that we start to look seriously at reducing the number of times members come and talk here, and perhaps we let the officers get on with the action that they should be getting on with