there is an additional aspect that erm we we must look also, i think, at the viability of the services and facilities, er, within the new settlement, if the new settlement is, for the sake of argument five hundred houses then my submission is that that really offers no long term viability for any facility or service, erm, clearly you might get a primary school if the new settlement size was of the order of eight hundred to a thousand dwellings, but you would not get any sizable retail element, and so however far that settlement was located from the main centre they would still become dependant on that centre, and that's why i think it's important to recognize that if you are to achieve the erm if you like the balance of requirements, of achieving erm a reasonable degree of self containment within the new settlement, but also meet the needs of york, it has to be a reasonable size, but located as close to york as possible