the sorts of experiences that you then get people talking about is really well i've learnt to stand up for myself for the first time, erm i now know what i want to do, i know who i am, erm projects where i've been involved, where you get women saying things like well two years ago i would never have dreamt of going and talking to the council about my house, or my children, or that i can't get a job because i can't get child care, and i wouldn't have dreamt of doing that and people who now say well now i can do that, i know that i can go and stand up for myself and stand up for what i think is right, just as well as my husband can.