at the time, people felt they had secure jobs er in the m o d and the dockyard and so people accepted that with pensions and everything that goes with that sort of secure job, now of course the whole situation is enormously diff different and i was saying to, i have some french people staying with me this morning and i was, they were asking me about wages and i was saying to my daughter who works er on a thursday evening in the local sainsburys, earns more per hour than a friend of mine, well two friends of mine, one of whom is a carpenter, a fully qualified carpenter and the other is a motor mechanic, and that's an indication of the sort of level of wages that people are paid in this area.