er again it's difficult to say, the information has been leaking out from the talks, er it doesn't look as though a pay formula is being included but roger pulne, er even on the onset of this dispute guaranteed the members er that any deal that was struck with management would include a pay formula and er if the deal doesn't come out with a pay formula after the ballot as i say, i think people are going to be very disappointed and let-down by our union negotiators.