and i think they have a tremendous contribution to make, and i think what we ought to be doing with er people who retire, it's not to say the end of their working life, and therefore they're on the scrap heap, but that it's a new stage in life and we ought to honour them and respect them and i think, give them some er affirm where they're at, and use them much more as the guardians of wisdom and the guardians of the stories of the community, and use them in that sort of way.