i think, bill, really you  far be it for me to try and teach you your job, but you ought to have perhaps gone back a little bit and wondered why we were all in this position, because you have us in year after year talking about budgets that are made and budgets which improve services, and  and we need to be absolutely clear that this budget does not improve services at all, that this budget does very severe damage to services, that the budget that has gone through the council identifies nearly eight million pounds taken off service provision erm and that cannot be done under the conservatives by making erm a budget with the liberal democrats have proved that it can't be done, in spite of their previous comments, without pain to services.