the other aspect is there are a large number of people a large number of these countries depend on their forest industries for producing foreign exchange which is particularly scant, a lot of the world, particularly africa is suffering from debt problems, erm i worked in uganda for 14 years and i found it really  to get back there: the salary of a forest officer now is something, is worth in real terms something like 1 percent of what it was in 1962. erm his salary in 1962 was something in the region of six thousand a year in present terms, it's now worth £60. erm he has to go out and get most of his livelihood from some other source, and uganda's an extreme case, but there are many other african countries where the position is similar.