a worrying thing at the moment is as i said we're in close contact with  is that the malaysian government is sending representatives over to visit the european community ministers in may, to try and say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with what's going on in their country with the logging, and they're saying that people like friends of the earth are calling for a ban on timber, not because they care about sustained yield, but because we want to be able to sell our own wood, and this is to depress their trade.