i went to grenoble and discovered they had a small project on the outskirts, which had been a piece of wasteland; they ploughed it all down, replanned it, had a complete new housing estate, hotel, the lot, in less than five years, where the city council would be thinking about which bit of land to use, what to put there, how to do it, and ten years later they might think about producing a plan, and ten years after that (that's twenty years on) something would appear.