Gloria Steinem: Yes, hello, hello. Pat Mitchell: Hello, hello. What a thrill to have this opportunity. When we ask all of our TED community, many of them, "Who would you like to hear from if we're going to look forward and onward, when it comes to women in the world?" Unanimously, the answer was "Gloria Steinem." Now I know you're way too modest to accept that easily, so before we move onward, may I go back a bit, since we have known each other for a long time, and talk about those early days when you were building a movement, challenging stereotypes, moving beyond cultural norms. You must have had some manifestation of "Fearless" in your life. What were your fears and how did you overcome them? GS: No, I certainly had a lot of fears, and chief among them was speaking in public, just like I am now. Because, you know, we choose to express ourselves in the way that is most natural, and I became a writer because I didn't want to talk. So the first thing I had to overcome was the fear of public speaking, and because I was afraid to do it by myself, I asked a friend to do it with me -- Dorothy Pitman Hughes, and then Flo Kennedy -- anyway, so we became, in that way, somewhat accidentally, one white woman, one Black woman, speaking together, which, you know, was very helpful to express that the movement was for everyone. PM: And in those early days, when you were becoming, not only a really powerful public speaker, in spite of your fears, you were also normalizing and creating response to a word that became the anthem for so many of us, literally changing lives, standing in front of crowds and saying, "Feminism is for every woman." And I see now, as you do, that there are still ways in which feminism is not understood as a concept. Misunderstood, criticized, sometimes ridiculed. How do you describe feminism? GS: Well, it's just the radical idea that human beings are all equal and we can dispense with the labels of gender and class and race and begin to realize our unique individuality. Of course feminism was misunderstood in the beginning, as if it were about female superiority or it was a movement for lesbians only, not for all women. I mean, you know, there were all kinds of misunderstandings, not to mention ridicule. But I hope that that's past. I used to just send people to the dictionary to look up feminism, very helpful. (Both laugh) PM: How do you feel the new generation and the next generation of young women -- what is their relationship with the word and the concept of, "there's still a lot to be done to reach that equal step"? GS: Yeah, well I don't think that -- I mean, the word is still there, womanism, women's liberation, there are all kinds of words, but I think it's much more about content and not worrying too much about form. So Black Lives Matter was started by three young Black feminists. You know, that was their creation that is beginning to change much that needs to be changed. And they just assumed that of course they were there as three young Black feminists. PM: And in the early days of the women's movement and continuing all the way through, one of the ways that we have learned to talk to each other about difficult issues in which we may have disagreements, were sort of the talking circles or the consciousness raising, but is this something we could do to begin to build back the bridges between us? GS: You know, I regret the emphasis on divisions, because we are more unified than any other movement in history. So I think we ought to celebrate that fact. And it comes out of talking circles as you point out, which used to be called consciousness raising groups. And it just means that you sit in a circle, as Native Americans taught us long ago, and you each get to speak in turn -- Native Americans passed around a talking stick -- and everybody has to listen while each person -- and in that way, you say unsayable things and somebody on the other side of the circle says, "Oh, I've experienced that too." And you discover what is shared and also, you discover how you can help each other. There's no substitute for those kinds of talking circles. PM: I want to be the first to volunteer with you, Gloria, to start the talking circles and passing the talking sticks again. One of the surprising things that people who come into your presence are always surprised to find out what a great sense of humor you have. And one of my favorite books of the many you have written sits by my bedside, and the title of it -- forgive me those who might not like bad language -- the title is "The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Piss You Off!" So I'm wondering now what truth is setting you free and what continues to piss you off? GS: Well, actually, right at this moment, I mean, the truth is COVID -- you know, and we understand that is a universal experience and danger we're all dealing with, and what pisses me off is that we don't use that experience in the positive sense. In the sense that we learn from dangers as well as from accomplishments. It pisses me off that this is not used in a positive way to overcome the idea of categories of human beings or of national boundaries or of countries. I mean, we're all here on Spaceship Earth. (Laughs) We're all citizens of Spaceship Earth, and COVID knows that, so it should help to teach us that. PM: And as we're looking at our current reality, we've seen yet another great milestone for women, in this country for sure, with the newly elected Vice President Kamala Harris, who said in her speech, you know, "I may be the first, but I won't be the last," and I think of the many times that you and I and others have said that. What difference will it make, in our country and around the world, when there are more women in all leadership positions, what are our differences as leaders? GS: Well, I mean for one thing, we will have the advantage of using all of human intelligence instead of only a small portion of it; this would be a good thing. And we will also allow children to see themselves as leaders universally, instead of just one small group. Because right now, when kids look at leaders, they don't necessarily see themselves. PM: When we look at you, we see a leader, Gloria, and there are so many things that you could point to with pride, although I know you don't. But what is it that motivates you or keeps you on the path onward in those moments of doubt, or the times when things look bleak or there are fears, or do you ever fear, ever feel those feelings? GS: No, of course I fear, I mean, definitely. But as the slogan goes, "Follow the fear and do it anyway. Fear is a sign of growth." (Laughs) It's a good thing, right? PM: Right. GS: I'm so inspired by young women, I mean, I keep feeling as if I just had to wait for some of my friends to be born. And to see that this is profoundly a global movement, as it always has been. I mean, you know, even the response to the march right after the inauguration of the current president, in every -- Latin America, Africa, you know, were marching together. It really has become a global movement, thanks in large part to technology, because we can see each other, as we are now, and also just to the contagion of the idea of freedom, you know. If women spend nine months being pregnant and caring for a child, why isn't it that men are responsible for spending that much more than half the time taking care of the child, hello? (Laughs) Logic is in the eye of the logician, right? (Laughs) So you know, wherever you look, there's just a discovery of freedom, of common sense, of companionship. PM: Is there, of all the things in your life, what has been the greatest source of confidence building and inspiration? Is it the global sisterhood that you've built around the world? GS: Well, it's just other women. I mean, I would not have been able to ever conquer my fear of public speaking, which is where we started out, if it hadn't been for my fearless friend, Dorothy Pitman Hughes, you know, for doing it together. So you know, it's learning from each other, and just remembering to ask, really, because the help is there, the inspiration is there, the sense of community is there, and I hope that technology can help us in this way, especially because for women, that's important, because we can communicate in safety. But I do regret and worry about the COVID emergency, because we do also need to be together with all five senses in order to truly empathize. So I look forward to the day when you and I can once again be in the same room. PM: Well, you and I have been in a lot of the same rooms, and even when you're not in the same room with women everywhere, you have inspired them, Gloria. And to see the full and total story, well, at least part of the full and total story, the movie has been made about Gloria's life. It's called "The Glorias," based on her book "My Life on the Road," which is certainly the way you've spent your life, and it's available for livestreaming on Amazon Prime and I do highly recommend it. Gloria, thank you for your work, for your life, for the fearless way in which you have led us all forward, and one last next step for moving onward from you? What advice or counsel? GS: Ah. Just do it. (Laughs) You know, I think we kind of wait for instructions from up there, or we worry or something, and you know, if we just get up in the morning and say, "OK, I'm going to do this, and I'm going to get in touch with three or four other people," and just think of change as a tree, you know -- it doesn't grow from the top down, so we shouldn't be waiting for somebody to tell us what to do. It grows from the bottom up, and we are the roots of change. PM: We are bearing the roots of your work, Gloria, with gratitude. Thank you very much for joining us for TEDWomen 2020. GS: No, and thank you for bringing women together, which is the magic. Thank you.