text: Self-made business mogul turned politician Herman Mashaba, is confident Action SA will be the surprise package of South Africa’s 2024 National and Provincial elections. He says hard work over the past three years; a campaign that resonates with all races; and a God-centred approach is set to catapult ActionSA from its excellent debut in 2021 into major player this year. He is aiming high – countering poor poll showings with on-the-ground feedback from the party’s 320 000 activists suggesting even third place (behind the ANC and DA) would be “a disappointing result”. He spoke to BizNews editor Alec Hogg.
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  Highlights from the interview
  In this interview, Herman Mashaba, the founder and leader of ActionSA, discusses his political journey and the party’s unexpected success in South African politics. He highlights the initial scepticism about ActionSA’s potential, noting that despite predictions of minimal impact, the party secured significant representation in Johannesburg, Tshwane, and Ekurhuleni, becoming the sixth-largest party nationally and the fourth-largest in Gauteng.
  Mashaba emphasizes his commitment to building a non-racial South Africa, rejecting any form of racial politics within his party. He outlines his strong stance on law and order, advocating for stringent policies against corruption, crime, and the influence of unions in education. Mashaba’s vision includes severe consequences for serious offenders and a reform of the prison system to ensure that criminals contribute to society through labour.
  He also touches on the influence of his faith, which guides his leadership and decision-making processes. Addressing the return of former president Jacob Zuma to politics, Mashaba views it as a divine intervention to expedite the downfall of the ANC, expressing confidence in ActionSA’s future success and widespread support across different communities in South Africa.
  Extended transcript of the the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
  00:00:08:03 – 00:00:28:02
  It’s just over a week until South Africans go to the polls. One of the new political parties expected to do very well is ActionSA. The leader and founder, Herman Mashaba, is with us this morning.
  00:00:28:04 – 00:00:56:22
  Morning, Herman. I say expected to do well by those who think rationally. You are a businessman of great renown. You built Black Like Me into a magic business, then sold it off. The corporate who bought it couldn’t make it work, so you bought it back and made it stronger than ever. I presume you’re using some of those insights for ActionSA itself, which is not registering that high in the polls.
  00:00:57:00 – 00:01:14:16
  But when I look at the by-elections and talk to people in the communities, including GG Alcock, who is very tapped into Kasinomics and the Kasipreneurs, it’s a big thumbs up for you. So how are things going at ActionSA as we approach the big day?
  00:01:14:18 – 00:01:51:16
  Well, Alec, last night I had a meeting with our nine premier candidates in all nine provinces, and I was actually quite inspired. I thought I was going to lift them up. Normally, I don’t attend these meetings—our national chairperson does—but I requested to open the meeting with a ten-minute speech. I found that they needed to lift me up instead because I have a team that is more than committed.
  00:01:51:16 – 00:02:26:03
  These South Africans are working hard. For example, I watched Athol Trollip yesterday addressing community meetings in rural Eastern Cape. I spoke to Zwakele Mncwango in the morning, and these guys are doing unbelievable work, still launching branches and reaching out to communities. On Sunday, I spent four to five hours in Eldorado Park working with Dereleen James.
  00:02:26:05 – 00:03:00:06
  I can tell you, in those four hours in Eldorado Park, I reached out to communities that could fill up two stadiums. I had a motorcade of about 30 to 40 branded vehicles, distributing pamphlets and addressing 15 community meetings. We stopped at each community with a vehicle equipped with a strong PA system, and people were signing up, excited. For some reason, South Africans resonate with ActionSA.
  00:03:00:08 – 00:03:22:17
  I traveled a lot last week. On Thursday, I flew to Cape Town and back. From the minute I arrived at the Sandton Gautrain station, people recognized me like I was Michael Jackson, wanting to take photos and delaying me. I got on the train, and people were excited to see me all the way through my journey.
  00:03:22:19 – 00:03:54:07
  What is actually more profound and inspirational is that we are not a party appealing only to blacks or whites; everyone is involved. People treat me like a superstar, but I’m just an ordinary South African trying to save my country. People are surprised to see me travelling alone. On the ground, I’m personally quite satisfied. I’ll be devastated if ActionSA emerges as only the third biggest party in just over two weeks’ time because of the work we have put in.
  00:03:54:07 – 00:04:18:06
  What do you mean by that? What do you mean?
  00:04:18:11 – 00:04:57:08
  I’ll be disappointed. That means I missed my target. Looking at the work we do, we have 320,000 active activists on the ground working for hours. We don’t go to stadiums. Even yesterday morning, I had a meeting with my finance team, and we decided against a stadium-type event. It’s not about the money but how you use it. In a stadium, people come for entertainment, not to listen to you. It’s just a showcase for television viewers, which won’t get us votes. If we have money, we send people house to house to get voters.
  00:04:57:10 – 00:05:00:18
  What do you mean by that? The third biggest party?
  00:05:05:00 – 00:05:41:01
  I’ll be disappointed because I missed my target. If you look at the work we’re doing, we have 320,000 active activists on the ground working tirelessly. We don’t focus on filling stadiums. Even yesterday morning, I had a meeting with my finance team, and we decided against a stadium-type event. It’s not about the money but how you use it. A stadium event is just a showcase for television, but it won’t get us votes. We prefer sending people house to house to get voters.
  00:05:41:03 – 00:06:06:07
  That’s why the polls and analysts on national television don’t see us. In 1985, the market failed to see me. I started Black Like Me in 1985 with a R30,000 loan. Five years later, I had the biggest brand. When I started, my competitors were big white companies with distribution networks, instructing distributors not to stock my products.
  00:06:06:12 – 00:06:45:17
  I set up parallel structures next to these big distributors and helped my distributors get products from my competitors at cheaper prices, undercutting them. Within five years, I turned my R30,000 loan into a state-of-the-art business. By the time I turned 30, I had a construction company building my factory with the best technology. I didn’t owe anyone a cent up until 1993.
  00:06:45:19 – 00:07:11:02
  Every single day, I had to think about growing the market and meeting its demands. I expanded my factory and set up a distribution network to ensure we met the market needs.
  00:07:11:06 – 00:07:37:04
  Looking back, it’s amazing how we managed to overcome the challenges and grow the business. We built a brand that resonated with people, much like how ActionSA is resonating with South Africans now.
  00:07:37:07 – 00:08:04:07
  The success of Black Like Me was due to strategic planning, hard work, and understanding the market. These same principles are guiding ActionSA as we work towards making a significant impact in the upcoming elections.
  00:08:04:09 – 00:08:24:14
  I’m committed to doing whatever I can to save our country, and it’s inspiring to see how South Africans are responding to ActionSA. Whether we become the third biggest party or not, our dedication and hard work will continue to drive us forward.
  00:08:24:16 – 00:08:38:20
  But, Herman, coming back to today. Have you used those lessons, those learnings in ActionSA, in your distribution network, in getting votes? You talk about 320,000 activists. That’s an army.
  00:08:38:22 – 00:09:08:01
  Well, I think, Alec, one thing that South Africans are not aware of—I’m not sure if even you are aware—when analysts before the 2021 elections, when our party was a year old, said I would be lucky to get three councillors in the city of Joburg and that I could forget about Tshwane and Pretoria.
  00:09:08:03 – 00:09:39:21
  And I emerged with the IEC playing a dirty game on us. Right now, as I’m talking to you, after the elections, we had 16% of the city of Johannesburg with 44 councillors, 19 councillors in Tshwane, and 15 in Ekurhuleni. Are you aware, Alec, that we are officially, according to the IEC, the sixth biggest political party in the country?
  00:09:39:21 – 00:10:05:13
  And are you aware, Alec, that we are the fourth biggest party in Gauteng? We only contested three municipalities out of nine. We are the fourth biggest political party in the city of Johannesburg. We are the third biggest political party with 16%. But, you know, even yesterday I was looking at some of the polls, one of the television stations saying ActionSA will get 1%.
  00:10:05:18 – 00:10:43:02
  How do we get one per cent? What have we done wrong? Actually, we’ve capacitated ourselves a thousand times more than in 2021 when we received 2.4% of the national vote, only contesting in six municipalities. How on earth—I don’t know what these pollsters are smoking. That’s why, you know, one of the projects, if given the mandate, is to get drugs out of this country, because even professional people are smoking these drugs. We can’t operate with people who are smoking things.
  00:10:43:04 – 00:10:55:04
  But tell me, Msinga, or G, tells me that we make the best Durban Poison in the world. So maybe. But, Herman, where are you putting ActionSA’s share of the vote?
  00:10:55:07 – 00:11:18:07
  Well, what I’m saying is, personally, I’ll be disappointed if ActionSA becomes the third biggest party. I’ll be disappointed. Right now, there’s just no way anyone, anywhere in the world, can come out with a definite number because there are so many moving pieces.
  00:11:18:12 – 00:11:48:09
  But one thing for sure is that ActionSA is going to emerge as the biggest surprise and will be supported by all South Africans. We are the only party—not even Nelson Mandela received this kind of electoral support across all South Africans. We are going to be the party that receives support across all communities. That’s given. You can do your analysis.
  00:11:48:12 – 00:12:05:09
  Don’t just look at the total votes we received. Look at where those votes come from. And it’s not happening, Alec, because of chance. It’s because I’ve committed to my fellow South Africans that I want to build a nonracial South Africa.
  00:12:05:15 – 00:12:28:19
  Well, you have been at it now for some years. You were the opening speaker at BNC One, our first BizNews conference. We’re now moving towards BNC Seven. So that gives an indication of the time that you’ve been working on this project. What is it about your campaign message that is really landing with South Africans?
  00:12:28:21 – 00:12:54:04
  Well, I think, first of all, South Africans want to rally around one flag. We have lived for so many years being discriminated against, being defined, having to fight and pit against each other. South Africans are tired. South Africans want to be South Africans. And that is something that people know I don’t compromise on.
  00:12:54:04 – 00:13:19:23
  I tell anyone, from day one when I launched ActionSA, I said, please, if you are looking for a racial party, go somewhere else. You can keep your vote as much as I want it, but don’t come and waste my time. That resonated with people. People really know my capitalist tendencies and I don’t compromise. I’m for a free market economy. No union will have a veto.
  00:13:19:23 – 00:13:42:16
  People know very well I believe in the rule of law. I refuse. I totally refuse to coexist with criminals. That’s why at our policy conference in September, we’ve come out with very strong policies against criminals.
  00:13:42:18 – 00:14:18:00
  Corrupt politicians and business people, murderers, rapists, and drug cartels will never get parole under ActionSA. Within 2 to 14 days of being arrested, we will have special units dealing with these types of crimes. No parole for them. You will go through the normal process, run the 24-hour courts with specialized units to deal with murder and corruption. Within 14 days, you must go through the court. If found guilty, you get sentenced to life imprisonment. Life means life. If you get 25 years, it’s going to be 25 years up to the last day.
  00:14:18:02 – 00:14:47:10
  But more importantly, and that’s something resonating with South Africans, is that as a state, I’m not going to use a cent of your money for the upkeep of these criminals. They are going to build their own prisons in the Kalahari, next to fertile land. There will be a separate correctional services for petty criminals. But these four categories of prisoners are going to work. They will produce potatoes, cabbages every day, Monday to Friday.
  00:14:47:12 – 00:15:15:15
  By 8:30, we said we don’t want to see any sentenced prisoner in the cells. They must be out in the field, then come back at 5:00, eat, wash, and go to sleep. No time to form gangs and so forth. They’ll get a break on Saturday and then Sunday they must spend half of the day in church to prepare themselves for Monday.
  00:15:15:15 – 00:15:40:00
  They’ll never get parole. We believe in quality education. We want to take these Cosatu-aligned unions out of our schools. One Department of Education, bring back school inspectors. Bring God back into the schools. Every morning before our children start school, they must go to assembly to ask for God’s blessing and ethical leadership.
  00:15:40:04 – 00:16:08:18
  It’s very important, people working with me. And I don’t apologize to anyone, Alec. I’m not in this business to make friends. I value friendship. I’m sure you’ve known me for what, 20, 30 years? I value friendship. And friendship is very important to me. But it’s not the kind of friendship where someone can one day point a gun at me because I’ll never work. I will not point a gun at anyone. If you do something that I don’t like, I tell you right away. I’m not the kind of person that’s going to keep a file on someone.
  00:16:08:18 – 00:16:30:07
  I asked for one. You gave me a long list. But, Herman, just to close off with, what about Jacob Zuma? He’s coming back into the political arena. He has shaken things up a lot. How are you seeing the impact of this former president who the Zondo Commission tells us was, well, not exactly ideal?
  00:16:30:11 – 00:16:44:11
  Well, honestly, of all the interviews I’ve done, people ask me about Jacob Zuma. I don’t think it would be fair for me to undermine any political party. I know I’m a victim of a political party that people disregarded. But at the end of the day, for us as ActionSA, are we worried about Zuma?
  00:16:44:13 – 00:17:05:13
  We wish him luck, but we are not really concerned. I think Jacob Zuma can only get support from the ANC. For me, as a religious person, I think it’s a God-given opportunity. Desmond Tutu, a few years ago, said to the ANC, “We are going to pray for your downfall,” like we prayed for Apartheid to end. As far as I’m concerned, what’s happening with Jacob Zuma and MK is a work of God to expedite the death and collapse of the ANC.
  00:17:05:16 – 00:17:29:07
  From that point of view, I look at it that way. I talk to people on the ground. There’s just no one who would lose for Jacob Zuma. But who am I to make a final judgment? I don’t consult everyone. But it’s a positive development. Very positive, as far as I’m concerned. And people around me, we are quite pleased. We believe it’s a work of God to expedite the demise of the ANC.
  00:17:29:09 – 00:17:53:16
  Do you think that message—the work of God, the factor of a higher power being involved—is landing as well? You yourself, I’ve known you forever. You’re a man of faith. You even send out a prayer every morning on social media. So you really are resonating with that community. It’s interesting to me that 86% of South Africans classify themselves as Christians. Are they getting you?
  00:17:53:16 – 00:18:23:21
  Well, I think it’s not about getting them. It’s about what I feel inside. My grandfather instilled in me a sense of everything that I do, I’ve got to ask for God’s blessing. He said, “Don’t trust another man. Trust another man by their deeds. Listen to people, but ultimately trust what they do.” Because a person can tell you something and then go and do something different.
  00:18:23:21 – 00:18:43:23
  So learn to listen to people, but ultimately trust what they do. With God, when you do something that God embraces, you don’t need another man to give you an endorsement. That’s how I run my life. That’s why, Alec, no one can hold a gun at me.
  00:18:43:23 – 00:19:10:14
  That’s why I was never beholden to the National Party. I’m not beholden to the ANC. Obviously, the National Party was an evil system. But I look at the ANC and the National Party as both evil organizations because the ANC is the kind of organization that does not believe in God, that wants to keep black people poor so that they can control them.
  00:19:10:16 – 00:19:41:20
  So, for me, what I do every morning when I wake up, the decisions I’ve got to make, I’ve got to ask God, “This is what I want to do. Is it acceptable?” And God gives me a sense of whether what I’m doing is acceptable or not. If it’s something that is not in line with His wisdom, then I don’t do it because I don’t want anyone to hold a gun at me one day. No one can ever have a firearm at Herman Mashaba.
  00:19:41:20 – 00:20:08:09
  Herman Mashaba, the founder and leader of ActionSA. I’m Alec Hogg from BizNews.com.