text: An Equinox interview with Enzo Nastati and Silvia Giaretta
  1:17 - 100 years of BD
  1:35 - Started in 1966
  2:03 - Chernobyl
  2:55 - caesium 137 - 30%
  3:08 - Road of homeopathy
  3:30 - Different homeopathy - for plants and soils
  4:03 - 2 abiding questions
  4:22 - What would Dr Steiner say in two more seminars?
  4:35 - What is 'beyond the spirit'?
  5:07 - An explanatory diagram
  5:53 - Alchemy
  6:10 - Level 3: homeopathy
  6:30 - Liberate the divine love and light in everything
  6:43 - aka 'The Active Principle'
  7:00 - Connection to the origin
  7:52 - Directly to the origin
  9:25 - Technique > devotion ...
  10:25 - 20ml per Ha
  11:04 - Dr Steiner's Koberwitz notebook
  11:54 - Humus .... and metamorphosis
  12:13 - Development of new plants
  13:29 - Keyserlingk: "I haven't understood anything"
  14:20 - Devotion and understanding?
  14:45 - Head and Heart
  16:18 - Devotion - not Catholic style
  16:54 - The Mother
  17:04 - Mother Earth and the Cosmic Mother
  18:16 - Snow
  19:00 - Steiner's snow meditations
  20:00 - Snow as a panacea for the soul
  20:34 - Plant evolution
  21:20 - Withdrawl of the group 'I's
  21:43 - From Jupiter to zodiac to Milky Way
  23:07 - The prodigal son
  23:52 - Moral Will
  25:05 - Earth axis changes
  26:00 - Koberwitz the start only
  27:21 - Steiner's reluctance
  27:50 - The study of Esoteric Science
  28:05 - ... and understand!
  29:30 - This approach and BD newbies?
  31:10 - The book of form
  32:04 - Look around
  32:40 - Sweet and salt water
  35:57 - Animal sorrows and pain
  37:16 - Snow product
  38:24 - More success stories please!?
  40:04 - Science of life
  40:50 - Big bang
  42:03 - 'Science' is one narrative
  42:23 - Priority: green the deserts
  43:10 - 3.6T triticale in the desert ...
  43:52 - Sorghum and alfalfa with 100mm rain
  44:38 - Illness shows lack of balance
  45:10 - Bulls
  46:23 - Product substrates
  47:35 - Mastitis and digestion in cows
  47:50 - "Devotion" ... ...
  48:44 - 100Ha fields of zucchini
  50:50 - Gratis
  52:53 - GMO experiment 2000s
  56:00 - Just 503
  57:47 - Hybrids
  58:35 - Adaptability of hybrids
  1:00:20 - The deserts
  1:08:58 - Cosmic beings and earthly assistants
  1:09:36 - Chaos on the Earth
  1:11:48 - Elemental beings and Elemental Spirits
  1:12:50 - The 5th ether
  1:13:26 - A period of transition
  1:15:29 - Humus without fertilising
  1:16:06 - The candlemas meditations
  1:17:00 - Experimental garden experiences
  1:17:21 - Nutria issues via meditation
  1:18:50 - Locusts
  1:20:05 - Biodynamics for today
  1:21:11 - Chickens
  1:23:24 - Dealing with what is real
  1:24:40 - Remnants of pain
  1:25:51 - Youth and new energy
  1:26:30 - 3 wishes!!
  1:27:09 - Everything follows openness to the spiritual world
  1:30:14 - Vines
  1:31:03 - Peronospora / downy mildew
  1:31:42 - Flavescence dorée
  1:33:20 - Modification of gliadin in gluten
  1:36:15 - Friend in the Group 'I's
  1:38:37 - The other Agriculture Course names
  1:39:40 - First Course: the influence of life in Nature and in protein. The development of the philosophers stone
  1:40:54 - Second course: learn communication with the living beings and know the secret names of nature
  1:41:50 - Learn this communication for a new (5th) alliance
  1:42:40 - Course 3: raising living plants and animals inducing resilience starting in the unmanifest
  1:43:49 - I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth
  1:44:32 - Mankind as 'mercury' of this process
  1:45:41 - 50 years work here
  1:47:09 - Important to work for life
  MM: Good afternoon Enzo Nastati and Silvia Giaretta. Lovely to see you again.
  EN: Hi Mark it's a pleasure to see you. Thank you thank you for meeting us.
  MM: I am very pleased that you've managed to make some time. This is really because biodynamics is 100 years old - I know you know this – and in the UK I've been asked by our BDA to to talk to various people I respect for their opinions about how we got here - did we do very well? - what do we need to change? - and I'm sure you will have plenty to say.
  MM: So speak to me Enzo tell me how how has biodynamics done with its first 100 years?
  EN: I could tell you my experience my own experience. I started practicing biodynamics in 1966. I say that I am a dinosaur, a biodynamic dinosaur. But this allowed me to see a lot of things I saw - miracles by using biodynamic preparations, but I also saw that after the Chernobyl catastrophe in 1986 biodynamic preps were no longer working. The problem is that are very few biodynamic dinosaurs around so only a few people could notice the difference in the way of working. In the response of the preparations. That catastrophe stimulated me to look for new ways. I've been able to take away 30% of caesium from the soil by using homeopathy. Then I kept developing my own 'homeopathy' applied to the vegetal and mineral kingdoms - and the animal kingdom as well - and this 'homeopathy' of mine had a very different approach compared to the classic human homeopathy because these kingdoms - these 'lower' kingdoms - have a lower level of response and I took as a reference a couple of questions that are still with me now.
  Steiner gave the Koberwitz seminar but we know he meant to have three seminars. So my first question is what would have me say in the second and the third seminar? The second question is another indication when Steiner says says beyond the spirit there is something different something more. These are questions whose answer takes more than a life and we need in order to answer them we need to develop higher consciousnesses. I will make a drawing to help myself to explain it better.
  This is nature. The first method that we can apply is to use natural substances as they are. The second method is to start practicing alchemy. The third level is homeopathy where we dilute and dilute and dilute substances and then we set free the principle of light and love - the Divine Light and Divine Love that are present in everything. Normally we call this the 'active principle'. I call it the 'seed of Divine Light and love'.
  As long as I dilute and dilute and dilute I get closer I connect myself to the origin. But a moment comes that my capabilities are over but if I think about Steiner's indications I can connect myself beyond that Divine principle that is present in the things. The Divine principle is present down to the matter down here and with this techniques I can set it free.
  But at a certain point I can reverse my way of thinking. I go directly to the origin and let it come out and I let the original principle come down. As good homeopathist as I can be, I will never be as good as God. So our speech is already over!
  Down here we have the techniques/technologies that is the modern world: - hybrids GMO 5G electricity - that are an attack against life.
  Let's try to show it in another way. If I start from the technique, the precision of the technical aspect is fundamental - the pharmaceutic aspect is fundamental. However, if I work from the top downwards the the technical aspect is zero. What is important and crucial is my devotion. So now this is the way I work. I work on developing a pure thought in order to open the door for these entities to descend. Then what is required from the farmer is just an aspect of devotion of the heart. The quantities of products that we use are minimal - normally 20 ml per hectare - and this is my personal path.
  In biodynamics to try to answer to what Steiner said in the two seminars that he was not
  able to give.
  Then we should add something else. We know that there is a notebook that Steiner had and in this notebook he had all the notes of the things that he had to develop during Koberwitz seminar. The people who read it discovered two things. The first thing is that during Koberwitz seminar he didn't say all the things that he put as a note in the notebook, and above all he didn't say the most delicate part - when he didn't say how the cosmic forces develop humus and metamorphosis in the plant - and this means the development of the new plants.
  I worked a whole year on this notebook and it was very hard because Steiner took notes for himself of course. He just needed one word to remember a concept. But to get to open the secret of that notebook allows us to make things that can seem impossible - almost impossible. And please consider that this was the first seminar of three. What would he say in the second and the third? My opinion was that Steiner looked into the eyes of the attendants - he saw the nothing - and Count Kaiserlingk said 'I don't understand anything'.
  So he [Steiner] chose not to say that things but we are 100 years later - we are 100 years late and that's terrible if we think about it because we still have two seminars that are missing. So this is my path. Do you have any other questions?
  MM: Many many questions. First one: so this devotional path, is that something someone can enter without understanding any biodynamics from Koberwitz?
  EN: this is the way of the heart and our society is set on the way of the brain. If you go for a job interview they do not ask you how open is your heart. It is not a positive quality for your interview. It's about putting into practice what Steiner gave in the esoteric school - develop the Triad of the head, the Triad of the heart, and then put them together so the thought can feel and the Heart can think. Unite the two currents. Steiner said that at the end of the century the last century the two spiritual currents would have been reunited. So do we just read it or do we put it into practice? it's a choice.
  We we are not speaking speak about the Catholic Church devotion.For devotion we mean a deep quality of the heart that for example discovers again one quality. We no longer consider the element of The Mother but we still have the concept of Mother Earth. We do not have so clear what is the Cosmic Mother. When I look at at to the sky full of stars I do not see the Mother. The Mother is the black among the Stars and she gives us so much love. At a certain point this love is so much that it can go out on the earth through the holes of the mantle and these holes are the stars.
  This is the Cosmic Mother but the Cosmic Mother comes closer to the Earth with the snow. When it snows we overcome all forms. In the morning you don't recognize your own car among the others they are all the same. What does this mean? That with the snow we overcome division, the Luciferic division of the fall is overcome by The Mother, by the action of The Mother, when she descended as snow. And there are Steiner's meditations about the snow.
  Question - for you - do you know them?
  MM: He talks about the colour blue and the white and the edge of the ether and then is that when he talks about the snow ...
  EN: perfect! When Steiner suggests to meditate on the white colour he says - think about the snow there you can find the mystery of the matter because you overcome the fall and since my work is making products a product made of snow is a very good product. It can heal all dimensions of the soul – inflammations, it can cure animals, it is a panacea for all the world of the soul. But I think we are going off topic.
  Maybe there is a point that we need to have clear - it's that the plant doesn't evolve it's group I. This evolves thanks to the experiences that are had through the physical plant. But if the plant became on hybrid what is the group I of a hybrid? A hybrid doesn't have any. And what if I cross-manipulated and changed the plant - the group can no longer get any experience through that plant and it retires – goes away. The group I has his house is in Jupiter dimensions in connections with the entities of Jupiter that are the Dominions.
  First he went away on the Zodiac and then again up to the Milky Way. If I want to work in agriculture today I need to connect myself up to the Milky Way. The 12 constellations of the Milky Way generated the 12 constellations of the zodiac and I need to know the relationships between them and the 12 constellations of the Milky Way. These the daughters of the 12 big Cosmic regions. Then if I want to regenerate I need to get to the cosmic regions. We need to amplify our consciousness until it hurts we can say because we feel powerless. In the cosmic regions is the blue mantle of the mother that comes to help us. This is the parable of the prodigal son.
  When the prodigal son decides to go back home, when he takes the first step towards home, it is written that the father that was looking at him from far away ran towards him. We do not have to walk down the whole path but we need to take the first step with our will / decision. Steiner speaks about 'The Moral Will'. Will because we take a step and it is moral because it is inspired by the laws of Life. Steiner says that by our moral will we will be able to modify meteorology.
  Why is weather crazy? Many reasons but one of them is that Humanity has no moral will because the selfishness is dominating. Steiner says that we will be able to modify the inclination of the terrestrial axis. That is one of the things that are going to happen and it's not going to happen in a thousand years - We will see it. The Earth many times changed its inclination if we have oil under the Sahara Desert it means that once there there was a forest a big big Forest
  Sorry if I keep speaking I don't stop. Let's go back to your questions. I would like to add a very small thought … more on the fact that we have just one seminar of Koberwitz. It's like a child that goes to infant school – first class - the teacher tells you today we are going to learn how to write today I will teach you the vowels e o a i e o u. In three months the school is shut down and so the child will never learn consonants. We are like new like newborn babies and and we just make the sounds we know. But we have a solution because Steiner didn't want to give Koberwitz seminar. The Count Kaiserlingk, with his will of with his Iron Will, kind of forced him to to do it right .Why did Steiner why didn't he want to give the Seminar?
  He wanted the anthroposophists to make the agricultural work on their own from Occult Science. so we do have Occult Science. So we could develop what Steiner had no time to tell us, but we need to study a lot. A lot. A whole life ... oh sorry study and understand of course
  MM: it was going to be so easy and now it's difficult
  EN: Another question for you!
  MM: Well, my question then is that I'm teaching students they're just meeting biodynamics. They come because they want the Earth ... they see the Earth is suffering, they know about global warming, they're worried. So of course we read the the Koberwitz course starting with silica and calcium and the the wives of the professors and work our way through the preparations the agricultural organism ... to take them from there to where you are (which is probably even further up) is a challenge and maybe you can help me: what would you do with people who are just showing their first interest in healing the world?
  EN: I would take those three famous books. You speak about silica, calcium and clay. Can you - for example - recognize if a mountain is a male or female?
  MM: In the drawings of Jung and Freud yes, but otherwise I can only assume you're talking about silica and calcareous mountains but - no no I can't. Help me!
  EN: Steiner says the ABC of Agriculture is to distinguish the cosmic from terrestrial. So I didn't ask you to recognize an ant from a cricket. I asked you about a mountain and to figure out if it is male or female. If around me I have male or feminine mountains - I need to change sorry to change my Agriculture and this is to be able to read the book of forms. Male mountains are always pointed - Silica - while feminine mountains are always rounded kind of softened. The mistake I've seen many times is that we look at the grass in order to decide how to set our farm when the first thing I say to people is for five minutes just look around because what you can see can also see you. It's not that difficult to imagine. So that mountain acts on your field. If you are near the shore near the sea - the sea is a mystery - the rain is sweet Water rivers are sweet water, and in the sea we have a lot of salt as in our body. I drink um Sweet Water while my uh tears my sweat my pee are all salty. There incredible alchemy takes place given by the sodium chloride that means the combination of Virgo and Pisces that form the therapeutic constellations of the zodiac. That's why we also have therapies with sea water.
  But if the sea is capable to bring life the first kilometers from the shore have such an indigestion of life and there in those places we have little life otherwise on the shore we should have the biggest plants but we have just sand or rocks. So I need to know if my farm is close to the sea or not because for 20 30 kilometers the sea takes away life! There is a depression of life not a desert but a depression of life. Life starts to be present for 200 300 kilometers life that comes from the sea. Then inside you only have the action of the Sweet Water that can maintain life therefore when we speak about the agricultural organism we have to look at the sea, at the mountains. If we have those mountains made of um the trash that comes from the cities they act in a negative way up to 200 kilometres. All the the elemental beings are chaoticised. There is another thing that we normally do not think of. Pain. The pain of the cow because they take away the calf the moment he is born. The pain for the Industrial Way of breeding animals this acts for 10 and 10 of kilometers and it causes illnesses. I need to know how to balance - reharmonize - the pain of animals. 100 years ago they didn't have this problem … and I'm still not speaking about electricity antennas or Chem-trails or
  5G or whatever. I'm just speaking about the agricultural work of men. We don't have these thoughts. That's why we are facing pathologies that we cannot understand. The product that is made of snow - why is it capable to heal? Because it takes away the pain! The Mother can take away the pain from the soul. When a child gets hurt the mom gathers him, kisses him and the pain is gone. We know that this is the astral/animic body acting, but it works …. so ... this is a detail. Better we stay please ask me something?
  MM: more questions.... Well I love it when I hear of your success stories where things have worked really well and I'm sure other people would like to hear this too. Can you tell us of some of your great successes. Just before we recorded you were talking how you've had some great success in Mexico.
  EN: Shall we talk about the recent ones? I've seen many things in my life.
  MM: Sorry Enzo. I say this because people in general don't know the range of possibilities of what I will call 'biodynamics' still. To remove heavy metals, to work with GM seeds ... most people haven't even heard of this so I would like you to boast about how well you have done please!
  EN: Correct because biodynamics it's not just agriculture. It is a science of life …. applied to agriculture. But the first thing she is is a science of life. If I study Agronomy at the University I study for five years and there isn't a book, a single page, a line that speaks about the origin of life ... and please don't tell me the tale about the Big Bang because I don't believe it! I love to meet people that believe in the Big Bang. Those are the 10 minutes that I enjoy much in my life and for people who's listening I have nothing against the Big Bang but where was it? It means that space was already present. Who created the space? Could it push the bottom for the Big Bang? So there was something before! If with this big explosion everything is spinning counterclockwise please explain me why Venus is spinning clockwise and Neptune's moon and Pluto as well. Please tell me. The science we have is a tale for children. We do not want to think.
  I would say that the most important element is to cultivate in the desert and 'desert' doesn't just mean Sahara. For example we are working in the Sonora Desert that is the desert we see in the western movies where you see a bush here and closest one is 20 meters away. It rains 100 millimeters and there with we got to produce 3.6 tons triticale per hectare ... and they also treated in a not ideal way because they waited one month after sowing before treating start treating for the desert. In their enthusiasm they sowed right away.
  We also produced sorghum in the desert. The desert became a green sea compared to the previous year. If you want I can send you pictures.
  MM: yes please
  EN: Farmers are very interested. They have many illnesses that I didn't know because it's a different part of the world with different conditions and different illnesses so we put the plants back in harmony because illness is nothing but an indication of a disequilibrium. By reestablishing the equilibrium we we got to cure them ... speaking about lemons and oranges, avocados ...
  We had good results with bulls because these animals were for the plains and they were bred in the mountains so they all have pulmonitis and they died. We healed all of them by using the water they drink. The 'product' that to me is not a product. It is the activity of a spiritual entity. If the water I have here in my cup - very Cosmic that is very Cosmic cup - can stay in the cup, can stay in the in another cup, can stay here ... what I mean is that the physical support is not the important thing. That entity can act in some water but the same support for that entity can be an aluminium small device that I can place around the water pipe and all the water that goes through becomes a medicine and this this doesn't have an expiration date. By doing so um we gave the animals the product to cure their lungs.
  (In three days the Mexican Veterinary will visit us to open new chapters of work because he saw what happened.)
  Also with the cows they had the mastitis and and digestion problems …. we need to um say to give up something more precise about that word 'devotion'. I give all my products for free I do not I do not ask for money and I pay the shipping costs as well because if the content of that product in reality is a spiritual entity I don't think that would be ethicL to sell a spiritual entity.
  Then there is another aspect I can give you the product - the best product that heals all your plants 100% - for example one of these Farmers has zucchini and when he transplanted the zucchini (every field is 100 hectare big - it's another world) and it was full of virosis.
  We treated. The viruses remained in the plant the form of the plant is characteristic of the presence of the viruses - but the fruit was good because in the plants that were present the virus had the time to change the form of the plant but the virus' action was kind of blocked and the plant made healthy uh fruits you know that it's not possible to cure viruses. I agree!With one logic you cannot cure them. But if I change logic we also know where they come from say
  So practically we work where there are disgraces because they do not call for help to an Italian when everything goes They call me when they are desperate and we send things for free because it come comes from the word Gratis. Gratis comes from a Greek word that means operating love. You make a gift to your wife for free because it is operating love and this allows the circulation of a gift of love. It is written in John's gospel prologue when it he says through the Christ we received Grace on Grace. You operate grace and grace is given to you.
  Then of course since I have to pay my gasoline as everyone in his freedom the farmer uh can send us a donation but for a person 10Euro can be a lot and for another person a thousand can be nothing nothing so this is the principle of the free uh appreciation. So uh we work in the principle of gifting and this is part of this process of devotion
  As you know, speaking about great results, in the past we worked with GMO pollens in 2000 and practically we made the GMO corn revert to organic quality. At that time we use we we were still using homeopathy. I can explain it but I don't want to take too much time so just tell me if it's possible or not.
  MM: Yes it's possible. I think this is such a an interesting one for people. Please do explain.
  EN: We sowed GMO corn and organic corn in alternate rows under a tunnel so that the pollen did not go away. There is a way for the feminine flower to recognize pollen - a biochemical system called 'lock & key'.
  This is the feminine flower This is the pollen. If the pollen is the right one of the same species it can enter as a key and turns and opens the door and this way of recognizing pollen is ruled by enzymes and bacteria. For example if this is an apple tree flower and the pollen of a pear tree comes and they are cousins the pollen enters but cannot turn because the defence system is activated. The GMO is like the Trojan Horse. So when I read about enzymes and bacteria I translate in my head 'Mercury'. And to me Mercury means the 503 the Chamomile preparation. It's embarrassing to me to say we just took some chamomile, we potentized it, and we sprayed the preparation while the plants when flowering - were blooming - twice. That's it. The GMO corn was yellow and the organic was white, a white variety and Mendel would say the yellow is dominant, so we expected the the corn to become yellow. However, the white remained white - I thought that corn didn't study Mendel - and imported yellow about 1%. But the funny thing is that the yellow GMO corn imported the white one more than 60% of the seeds were white and the rows were very close. If I have at least 50 m of distance I could solve the problem of maintaining my organic plants. Little by little we can put in order the GMO.
  Now I would like to say another one of those things that are 'Enzo' things. about hybrids. We said that the hybrid plant has no longer a group I here we have a new plant as triciticale but up there there is no Matrix for him. I often use hybrids.
  Why? Because they have a quality that traditional plants do not have: they are very adaptable to different meteorologist climates and environments If I have a typical plant of an area for example the the apple tree that is very very specific and typical that for 500 years has been cultivated in that valley, if I move it and I try to cultivate that variety in a different environment 100 kilometers from from its home - it gets ill a lot very ill because it's etheric body had specialized in the specific relationship with that environment. If I bring that plant in a different etheric environment the plant gets ill. Okay but I don't like the hybrid. Then I take it, I bring the hybrid in that Milky Way dimension, and if we know between zodiac and Milky there are found regions. They make like a cross and in the four corners we have uh four areas with lack of stars that in a spiritual sense are called the 'four deserts'. Steiner speaks about them in the book theosophy with different words but it
  can be understood. The first desert is the desert of the Essences of the germs of the
  minerals. Then we have the one the desert of the vegetables, the animals and Men.
  Let's start from vegetables that's the work that Zarathustra did in the Iranian desert. Zarathustra made the wheat and we still are cultivating that wheat. In the Arabian Desert Mohammed went into the Arabian desert with the horse and came back with the Arabian horse and that kind of horse has a pregnancy time different from the normal horse because Mohammed moved the connection of this horse from the synodic Moon to the sidereal Moon. The fourth desert is the desert in Palestine because when the Christ entered in Jesus it's written that the spirit pushed him into the desert for 40 days where the Temptations took place.
  Then I need to learn the the way the path that from the Earth allows me to ascend to the right planet. Then I go to the correspondent constellation and then I enter in the correspondent Milky Way constellation and in this last step I go through a desert. And when I go back down I come back with a new quality and I bring it down to the Earth. As I said, it's poor in technique but it's very devotional because we are speaking about inconceivable levels of spirituality. But if you go up there with your moral will - in the gospel is called the man of good will - the father comes towards you.
  This allows me to trust the future times because Steiner told us not to have any illusion about the future times because there will be big challenges but there will also be the solutions. You find them in the book of consciousnesses.
  MM: I have a question because this is something I stumble upon because Steiner talks about the ego of plants being in the center of the earth. The principle of the I is it at the center of the earth. I'm sure you've read this. I've often thought that the The Ether takes us up to the moon, the astral through the planets [to Saturn] and the ego is in the zodiac. I've got something that hasn't clicked from about what Steiner has taught.
  EN: There is a lecture that I never give that is about what is inside the Earth. In the earth there is everything that is outside the Earth, reversed. So there is a different logic that is not negative. We know that in the earth we have the so-called chthonic entities that are the entities connected to Mother Earth. That's why when a plant is specific of a place we call it autochthonous. That is specific of those areas. But these chthonic entities of the plants live in the top 40 kilometers of the planet. We know that the Earth is bigger and there there are other entities. For example they work in the movement of the tectonic plates. We know that also the deceased are involved in that movement.
  For another example the regulation between the eclipses of Moon and Sun that means that the Earth is speaking with the moon and they are speaking with the Sun and they need to find one another that day that hour that minute in that position. This is ruled by the deepest entities of the earth and we don't have any concept. We can make an hypothesis but the richness inside the earth is something incredible because the spirit periods of rotation of time in reality are bound to the outer planets. But they have like a small hand that enters the Earth and they rule over these beings to coordinate things and manifest their intentions. So the reversal is in the manifestation.
  There is a very interesting thing about it that now within the Earth there is a tremendous chaos because the Earth is getting ready to make we can call it an etheric energetic jump. For example the beings of the Earth, the Gnomes, they are so busy reorganizing all these things that they have less time to deal with the humus. On the other side man is polluting and the plant is there alone with a group I that is retired so in this period it is a real tragedy.
  Then here there is another solution people who knows anthroposophy in that famous the 'foundation stone meditation' Steiner makes his evocation and says: 'may the spirits of the north south east and west here it'. and who are these spirits?
  EN: Are they from east west north? We know that there are the four seasonal archangels and we know that we also have other archangels one for every ep one for every people so in my opinion here we find another big mystery. These spirits we are talking about are Elemental beings that recognized the Christ. They attained to the spiritual level because they don't have spirit and in a very far future they will become men. So not the normal Elemental beings but the Elemental Spirits. In other books Steiner speaks about Elemental spirits and it doesn't explain the difference.
  So what are the elemental Spirits? We said Elementary beings that recognize the light of the Christ and they are nothing else but the tools of the moral ether - that is the fifth ether, the ether that the Christ is now bringing us. Steiner says that there is an infinite number of these beings that act like germs of new life in the natural kingdoms and in the cosmos.
  So we are in this transition period from Elemental Beings to Elemental Spirits.
  I have three possibilities: first I do not care, I want to live a quiet life. Second I start working with this entities, and third, third is the tepid middle way possibility - okay if you want we can do something.
  My opinion either we work with these Elemental Spirits or we still are facing the death of nature. What I say around when I travel would say that we have two-five years in front of us. In the places where there is the most chemical and forced agriculture – about two years. I know about many farms that are closing because also by using chemical products the costs are so high that you have to close. So just think for a moment let's say that me or another person can make these new products and send you them for free at your house of course the economy changes. Because with this method, you do not fertilize. You stimulate the production of the humus as Steiner said in the secret notebook. Then the farmer can keep producing and has a future.
  If you find me a true biodynamic Farmer, one that doesn't kill - because in Koberwitz Steiner said we will have to meditate between mid-January to mid-February to control pasts. 100 years went by I do not think that we have that those meditations. This is the biodynamic word that is asleep but we have the um patent no the Demeter trademark but after a 100 years we can make this effort.
  I have a garden where we have our experimental parcel so and it's close to the Channel with the water and there it is full of nutria
  it's a kind of beaver but but it's not a beaver it's like a big big rat. They are vegetarian and one night they two three years ago they they've eaten all the things in the garden and with some meditations they keep living in the channel - I can see them - but they uh did not enter anymore in the garden. There is no net and they are kind of under control. They've been under control for five years so this can be done.
  Locusts in Colorado: there a friend of us had the garden with the locusts and the neighbour as well. I told our friend the meditation for the locust and they disappeared. Only a couple of them remained there stuck without eating – they could be old. She told her neighbour I can tell you the meditation. “No! I don't want to”. But there in the second Garden the Locust ate all the vegetables.
  This is for me nowadays biodynamics.
  What will they do in Africa when a cloud of Locusts 20 by 60 kilometers comes along. There is a solution. okay there is a solution for it. We need to find them. Spiritual science gives us the solutions but they're not easy to read. We need to deepen and to study and we we need to make mistakes as well. I made a lot of mistakes and I hope to have made all my mistakes. It's over for me.
  MM: these are good stories
  EN: we are doing a nice work in Mexico. There is um breeding of chickens. every breeding cycle has 40 millions of chickens and they make manure. One day of manure is 1 kilometer by 1 km 1 M 20 high every day! They compost it in a terrible way and no farmer wanted it because of course it make the plants ill.
  I created a synthesis of the BD preps a bit like Podolinski but not exactly - and they spray their heaps with it. We made the chromatography. The compost became good quality and now people wants it and pay for it. In technical sense this is not composting, this is a quick fermentation. I could have said you are not composting in the right way - and that's true - but in that case that is the reality. I need to start from the reality. Little by little I can take him where he can take a step forward.
  I want to tell you one thing more in this Egg Factory are working 15,000 people. It's a village. In five years they say that the production is not longer economically sustainable and they move the whole thing 50 – 100 km with all the 15,000 people. That means schools hospitals Church everything. Why does this happen? Because that is a pain Factory. imagine four chicken in a cage this small. I do not like it but this is the way it is and I need to start from the reality. When you work and drive and drive people home from the pub that's the the reality. So you need to help them as you can then you can um teach how to start an economy.
  I say when you will have an an economy you do not have to give me money but you do not have to keep it. You have to improve the chicken's life so little by little. And is what we are up to
  MM: very interesting
  EN: we need young people to carry that forward um we need new forces. We still keep doing it. More questions
  MM: I can't remember my questions. So Enzo you've rubbed the little pot and the a genie has come out and you have you have three wishes for the next 10 years.
  EN: I just need one
  MM: I'll have the other two.
  EN:I wish for people to be open to the spiritual dimension because everything else comes come as a consequence. This would be my wish: understand that there are no 'active principles', there is only the Holy Spirit where the word 'holy' in latin means subdivided. In everything there is a spiritual component which got here in the matter with a lot of pain. The Alchemists call this the Sal principle. When they reproduced a saline / sal process that means condensation, they put um put themselves like in a prayerful attitude, and sometimes they cried because they knew that they were bringing a Divine principle into matter. But the Divine descends out of love as the Christ did.
  Our work is to create the conditions for the resurrection, going from Elemental beings to Elemental Spirits for example. So my wish would be that for this opening of consciousness because this is the only way we can hope for a change.
  I also would have half of a wish starting from agronomists because the big problem are agronomists. They have been formed with that system and if you speak about Spirit they run away. I found a good one - just the first one close to my house. He has a Nursery of plants - above all grape vines. His father did it as well. So they know. Last year we started to work on making small plants of grapevine and our task was to give the plants the resistance to illnesses. We transplanted them last year. We had rain and heat, rain and heat, it was terrible.
  There was peronospora throughout this region - all the neighbours they treated (copper and sulphur) 36 times against this. We had to treat but just three times. Again more in the vineyard of this man there was also another illness that is Flavesence doree - that is impossible to heal to cure and at the end of the season last year it had disappeared. I didn't make any treatment. I told her to go away. I accompanied it - “I thank you, you did your job now your presence is not useful here.” We saw that after one year the whole structure of the soil improved this year. We keep working on the vineyard and I took a step forward and maybe we will get to zero treatments.
  We also will start with the fruit trees. The goal is always zero treatments.
  We are working on 16 varieties of cereals. We modified the gluten protein and now we got a wheat that it's easier to digest for people who has coeliac disease. We don't have any lab so how can I modify the protein gliadin in the protein? The gluten protein is made of five elements. One is the gliadin which is the one that bothers people with Coeliac disease the dangerous one. This part of the protein is very sensitive to the light thus to nitrogen, thus to chemical fertilization. I entered into this meditative connection bringing it the pure light and the gliadin changed. It's been three years that we cultivated it and people are happy - they can eat pizza and pasta - in Italia is something - and the group I of this plant ... I have it here it was not prepared ... we introduce you. This was a wheat that had not a very high quality. It was used for animals and you just cut it when it was green. I didn't know it, so it means I started with the worst kind of wheat at the beginning. The stone the builders rejected. The seed that was thrown away.
  When I brought it back through this Divine Matrix what did the group I do? It gave me thanks. And what is the 'thank you' of a group I? He says now I will be the one who will allow the other group Is to heal as well. I will introduce you to my siblings. We are working on 16 varieties. I have them on the table not especially not for you - they are here. Can you see the lateral ears. This is a wheat that is written about it in the Bible. One of his names is the miracle wheat. This variation is a genetic variation that has a specific code, so they studied it. They tried to insert this kind of variation in the normal wheat but they are not able to do it because you need to get to the desert to do it. If we will see each other in one year I'll tell you how it goes because you can double the production. I need to wait, we just saw it and we will need to see the ears.
  MM: Very very interesting. We've had almost two hours. I know it's difficult for you to stop so maybe I give you a little bit more time to tell me something something else exciting and then we see whether anyone listens.
  EN: I don't know ... they they come to my mind randomly. I could give the title of the three seminars like Koberwitz. We know the first one. We need to remember one thing - Steiner wanted the the people there to be members of the Anthroposophical society. That means people that knew anthroposophy well. When I was part of the National Board of Direction (in Italy) there were councillors that hadn't even read Koberwitz once. So we can say that the high level was maintained.
  So ... first course: “The living influence of the cosmos in Nature and in the protein. The development of a Philosophers' Stone” because Steiner speaks about the philosophers' stone for three pages. No comment. In all these books I've never found three pages about the philosophers' stone. Why to the farmers? He speaks about carbon because carbon means organic chemistry. We are carbon but we need to rise again. The plant needs to rise again ... and the Earth. So we need to understand the mystery of the philosophers' stone. And these are just the vowels the first seminar .
  The second one: since I've understood that there are no active principles but there are only spiritual entities “Learn how to start a dialogue with living beings. Learn to know the secret names of Nature ...” Name means God (numinous) to be able to recognize the Divine that is in the plant ...“to start this dialogue for a new alliance.” The alliances are five - first one in Genesis, then Noah, then Moses, the last supper and
  now … now that the Christ is in the Etheric. We can establish the fifth Alliance. We betrayed all the other four alliances but they are still willing to become allied. What will be born from this new alliance? This Alliance is the consonants -
  Third seminar: ”How to modify living beings - plants animals. How to induce resistance” But all the new is not here in the Manifest world. This means that it is in the unmanifested world. Do I have the Consciousness to enter the unmanifest beyond the last star? By doing so I can connect myself to the Christic impulse that can regenerate all the other kingdoms. The third seminar is to make the new nature. The apocalypse. When John says and I saw a new heaven and a new earth .Plants will change.
  I told you I hope that in four or five years Consciousness will change because the etheric bodies of plants have to change, from the old Elemental beings to the Elemental Spirits. This doesn't take place on its own. This is Mankind's work. We are the mercury in this process.
  Therefore the plants that are living with the old etheric body will disappear. There will be the super-technology, the super technique, the super anti-life that will produce something. On the other side there will be what comes from the Supra-life. This will be the future but it requires a change in consciousness. This is my lamp - that's why I just needed one wish.
  MM: good I'm glad I gave you this wish.
  EN: And I'm so happy to had the possibility to say these things because this is almost 50 years of my life. The the task of my life. To see plants that have changed their etheric body and the feedback of people happy because they've eaten pasta and pizza - I mean they had results! It's a dream that came true
  I think I'm done!
  MM: I very much doubt that you're done but I think uh we have to finish. It's lovely to see you both you both look very well. Silvia you look gorgeous … Enzo not so much but he's an old man. Seriously, thank you for all this work and that you're willing to talk about it and share. You know I can't say thank you enough but I will try. Thank you
  EN: We want to thank you for the opportunity and for calling us and it was wonderful to see you again for us as well. What's important is to work for life .
  MM: I'm gonna stop the recording now