84_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_KZkxveh70_reducing recidivism
gpt
Hi Billy. How are you doing?
human
Yeah, I'm all right.
gpt
Yeah. Hey, it's good to see you here and good to see you here on time. Yeah, it's really good to see a good start to the-- to your probation time with us here is to see you being here on time. So how did you get here today?
human
Just caught the bus.
gpt
Yeah, caught the bus to-to that-- to the stop outside the office?
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah, okay. So I'm noticing that this isn't the first time that you've been to see someone at probation and it's not your first, um, community sentence. So I was wondering when you're sitting on the bus thinking about coming here, what was- what was going through your head about being here?
human
Just a waste of my time.
gpt
Just was feeling like, "Ugh, it's gonna be a waste of my time coming here."
human
Mm-hmm.
gpt
Mmh. So how come you thought it was going to be a waste of your time? What was it based on?
human
Last time didn't really work out that well.
gpt
Yeah, didn't- didn't work out very well.
human
Nothing really helped me.
gpt
Okay. So you're hoping that it was gonna help you and it didn't. That was-- ended up feeling like a waste of your time.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Mm. So it sounds you're worried that it's gonna be a waste of your time this time too.
human
Yeah, I'd say so.
gpt
Mm, okay. So what sort of things do you think made it a waste of time last time?
human
She didn't really listen to me, just told me what to do. She just bossed me around.
gpt
Okay, the probation officer we're talking about here?
human
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
gpt
Mm. So it felt like she bossed you around, didn't really listen to you.
human
Yeah, she didn't really care.
gpt
Okay, so actually having someone listen to you and hear about what you're saying is important to you?
human
Yeah.
gpt
Mm. So what's it gonna be like do you think working with me 'cause I'm also a female probation officer? Um, I'm wondering what-what's it gonna be like do you think?
human
I-I don't care that you're a woman. It's just- it's that you don't know what it's like to be me.
gpt
Okay.
human
You have a different upbringing and live in a different place of town. Just-
gpt
Yeah.
human
-you wouldn't understand.
gpt
Okay, and all of those things are true.
human
Yeah.
gpt
You're right. I don't know what it's like to be you and what I'm getting a sense of is that it's actually important that the person sitting opposite you in this role needs to understand what it's like to be you. Is that right?
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah, okay. So I guess the invitation for both of us really over the next few months of, um, on the sentence is for us to get an understanding about what it's like to be you.
human
Yeah, so it is.
gpt
Yeah, okay. So in terms of the things that have brought you here, in terms of the things that have got you into trouble and got you into offending, I'm wondering how interested you are in, um, really getting an understanding of it. So one or zero is like, "Ugh, not interested at all."
human
Mm-hmm.
gpt
100 is like, "I'm totally interested and-and getting it nailed and sorted and, you know, getting on the straight and narrow." Where would you be on that scale?
human
Well, not too high. It's not like I'm out killing people or anything. It's just-
gpt
Okay.
human
-silly stuff.
gpt
All right. So it's kind of silly stuff that's getting you into trouble.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. So in terms of dealing with it, where-where would you be, do you reckon? How interested would you be in dealing with that stuff?
human
Mm, lots. When I stop getting caught. Don't wanna be back here again.
gpt
Okay, so you don't wanna be back here. You don't wanna be sitting here and-
human
No.
gpt
-to talk to a probation officer again.
human
No, sorry.
gpt
Okay. So where would you be do you think?
human
Mm, like what out of a scale it would like fall?
gpt
Zero being, "Argh, not interested at all," 100 being totally into it.
human
Mmh, 25.
gpt
25, okay.
human
Mmh.
gpt
So I know that you're kind of 25% interested-
human
Mmh.
gpt
-and really thinking about what's got you into trouble and hence something about what gets you into trouble.
human
Maybe but, mm, yeah, I wanna stop getting into trouble.
gpt
You wanna stop getting into trouble.
human
Yeah, but I don't think what I'm doing is that bad.
gpt
Mm, okay.
human
Just unlucky.
gpt
Okay, so getting into trouble and, uh, getting caught and-and we see [unintelligible 00:05:36] does about luck and this time being unlucky.
human
Yeah, the cops just have it out for me.
gpt
Yes, tell me a bit more about that, Billy? Kind of give me the [unintelligible 00:05:46] the cops have got it on for you?
human
Just 'cause growing up dealing with them and my mates and stuff and there's, you know, guilty before charged or whatever.
gpt
Mm, so it feels like you always seemed singled out and, um, end up being unlucky.
human
Yeah, me and my mates always get singled out.
gpt
Okay, so you get singled out and that's what, um, means that you end up getting-- having to go to court and get sentenced and end on probation.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah. So I'm wondering, um, if there are things that you think, "Well, I can see that that's got me into trouble," and, you know, kind of cops aside, things that might have got you into-into trouble.
human
Just jacking cars and just stealing just, like, stuff and smokes and got done for that.
gpt
Mm-hmm, okay. So some stuff that you can think, "Oh yeah, I had, you know, I did some stuff that yeah, got me into trouble."
human
Yeah.
gpt
It wasn't perhaps about the police singling you out. So those little things, well, you think, "Mm, yeah, maybe-maybe if I'd done something differently, I wouldn't have ended up in trouble." How interested are you in thinking about those things and-
human
Yeah, well, I-
gpt
-trying to get a handle on that.
human
-wanna stop getting in trouble. Don't wanna-
gpt
Yeah.
human
-end up in prison for the rest of my life for doing stupid little things.
gpt
Okay, so you don't wanna end up kind of being in prison again 'cause you've done some time inside. Yeah, and you don't wanna end up going back to prison, yeah. So-so that's one thing about wanting to make a difference and the way things are at the moment, yeah.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Cool. What else would, um, would help to kind of keep you out of trouble do you think?
human
Get some income, some good cash or something.
gpt
Mm-hmm.
human
A nice job.
gpt
Yeah.
human
A good-- yeah.
gpt
So the things about that have got you into trouble in the past, um, how confident are you that, um, that you can do something to not keep going down the same path? Zero is like, "I'm not confident at all that I can make any changes," and 100 is like, "I'm so supremely confident." Where would you be?
human
Pretty confident if I had a good job but otherwise, probably have to keep stealing stuff, I don't know.
gpt
Okay.
human
So it depends.
gpt
All right, so if you were in a good job-
human
Yeah.
gpt
-one with cars, one that-
human
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
gpt
-you really liked, you feel that you would be pretty confident to deal with the stuff that gets you into trouble?
human
Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause it's just small stuff that, you know, just 'cause I don't have any cash.
gpt
Okay, so you don't have any cash and that's the stuff that causes you to do the small stuff-
human
Yeah.
gpt
-and get you into trouble.
human
Yeah, just stupid little shit, yeah.
gpt
Okay, so if you had a job, you feel pretty confident, but if you don't have a job, your confidence is much-is much lower, is that-
human
Yeah.
gpt
-what I'm hearing? Yeah.
human
Yeah, no. That's-
gpt
Okay.
human
-not an excuse but, yeah, I'll probably keep doing it. Just try not to get caught.
gpt
Okay, so if you don't have a job you reckon, um, you'll probably gonna keep on offending.
human
Yeah. Yeah, I just get bored and stuff.
gpt
Okay, so part of this, what's going on is you also getting bored?
human
Yeah, I get bored real easy.
gpt
Mmh. Yeah, say something more about that. It sounds really interesting about you knowing that you get bored really easily.
human
I don't know. I got a short attention span or something.
gpt
Yeah, what-what makes you say that?
human
Uh, just can't sit around home all day. I'd wanna go out and do something exciting.
gpt
Okay, so you wanna kind of get some action, don't wanna sit around-
human
Mmh.
gpt
-all the time. But one of the things I'm noticing, we've been going here for a wee while now talking and, uh, I haven't noticed any lack of attention.
human
Just talking about something I like. Like talking about cars is all good.
gpt
Okay, so we [unintelligible 00:09:47] something that interests you.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Mmh, and when we might be talking about something that doesn't interest you, what would I notice?
human
I probably just wouldn't listen.
gpt
Okay. All right, so-so one of the challenges is for us to be talking about things that interest you. Yeah.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Um, and also maybe get to the point where things are different in your life Where you're not getting into trouble and things feel a bit more sorted in your life.
human
Mm-hmm.
gpt
Hi, Billy, how are you doing? It's good to see you again.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah, how's things been?
human
Well, not too bad. Yeah, getting out of trouble.
gpt
Okay. So you're keeping out of trouble.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah, so how'd you get here this time? Like 'cause other times you got the bus? What-what did you do this time?
human
Ah, I got a lift from Donna. She's-
gpt
Oh yeah. Who's- who's Donna? You haven't mentioned Donna before.
human
Like she's my new girlfriend.
gpt
Oh okay. Tell us something about Donna.
human
Ah, just met her a few weeks ago and she's just, uh, real cool. She's really nice. Yeah, get along with her really well.
gpt
Hmm, you get along with her really well.
human
Yeah.
gpt
So what's special about Donna?
human
Donna is easy to talk to unlike other girls that I don't really get along with. Uh, she's like and a good friend too so-
gpt
Oh okay. So someone who's both a friend and a girlfriend?
human
Yeah. I can hang out with her and stuff and she gets all my mates and stuff. So it's all good.
gpt
Hmm, yeah. It's really special when you find someone who can be both a friend and girlfriend, eh.
human
Yeah, and I'm lucky.
gpt
Yeah. You were made to say you're lucky.
human
She's just a really nice girl.
gpt
Hmm. Okay, so she dropped you off here today.
human
Yeah, it's good of her.
gpt
So what does she think about you coming here?
human
She thinks it's good. Yeah. Uh, she doesn't want to get in trouble and stuff.
gpt
She doesn't want to get you in trouble and I heard you say earlier on that you've been keeping out of trouble.
human
Yeah, I was just getting busy with her and stuff. So it's all good.
gpt
So what sort of things have you been doing together?
human
Just, uh, just hanging out. Just watching movies and stuff just, I don't know, gives me something to do.
gpt
Okay. Gives you something to do. So we talked like back on that first time we met about how you reckon you've got a short attention span and like things to like to be doing things.
human
Yeah.
gpt
So you're watching movies with her, you're hanging out?
human
It's, yeah, just chilling with her. It's good.
gpt
Yeah, and keeping-keeping out of trouble.
human
Yeah mostly, yeah.
gpt
Okay, what's the mostly?
human
Uh, you know, [chuckles] mostly.
gpt
Mm-hmm. So when you say mostly, it kind of leaves a little bit of room for there to be some trouble.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Am I picking that up?
human
Oh no, just stupid stuff. Just when she like-- she has to go to work and stuff, so I have to keep myself busy.
gpt
Okay, so she's- she's got a job.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah, what does she do?
human
She just works the whole day just typing numbers and stuff.
gpt
Mm-hmm. So kind of 9:00 to 5:00 sort of job.
human
Yeah. She actually goes there four days a week though.
gpt
All right.
human
So we get to chill on Friday.
gpt
Mm-hmm. So you two get to spend Friday together and the weekend.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Mm-hmm. Okay, so when she's at work, what happens then?
human
Well, uh, sleeping and then, I don't know, catch up my mates if they're not doing anything and just get up to mischief with them.
gpt
Mm-hmm. So what sort of mischief are we talking about here, Billy?
human
It's, uh, [unintelligible 00:13:34] for the cars out there, [unintelligible 00:13:36] no not-not normally. Yeah.
gpt
Mm-hmm. Okay, so you're kind of skating on the edges of getting in trouble again.
human
Yeah, I'm being careful though so-
gpt
Mm-hmm. Okay. So I'm wondering how much of what you do on Fridays you tell Donna.
human
But what do you mean?
gpt
Well, if we're talking about this idea about kind of scaling around the edges of trouble again,-
human
Mm.
gpt
- I'm wondering if she knows that.
human
No, not really.
gpt
So what do you reckon would happen if she knew?
human
She'd tell me off.
gpt
She'd tell you off.
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah?
human
Yeah.
gpt
Well, what-what are her hopes for you, Billy?
human
Uh, okay, she wants me to be happy, I don't know. Me to get a job or something. So, get a nice car we could cruise around in it.
gpt
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So she wants you to be happy.
human
Yeah.
gpt
So what would- what would like a really happy life for Billy look like?
human
Just be able to buy her stuff. Nice car, nice house.
gpt
Mm-hmm. A nice car, a nice house. Mm-hmm, what else? What must be a happy life for Billy?
human
Just and it'd be good just me, her and just be able to provide for her would be cool.
gpt
Mm-hmm, okay. So in five years' time, it's fast forward to the future. Five years time, how would you like it to be?
human
Just settle down and maybe have some kids or something, family life.
gpt
Okay. So, you'd be with Donna, and you'd have a house, and you settle down, maybe have some kids?
human
Yeah. It'd be cool.
gpt
Yes? So, it sounds like having children is something you've thought about? Um.
human
Yeah, I know she'd be a good mum, yeah. So—
gpt
Mm-hmm. She'd be a good mum?
human
Yeah.
gpt
Yeah? What sort of dad do you reckon you'd be?
human
I'd be all right.
gpt
Mm-hmm. Yeah?
human
Yeah.
gpt
What would be special about you as a dad?
human
Uh, I wouldn't boss them around.
gpt
You wouldn't boss them around?
human
No.
gpt
Mm-hmm. That's something- that's something that's come up before with-with-- when we've been talking about that idea about not liking being bossed around.
human
Yeah.
gpt
What's that about, Billy?
human
I don't know. It's just like-- My dad was really strict on me when I was little, and I don't want to be like that.
gpt
Okay, I see. You wanna be a different sort of dad-
human
Yeah.
gpt
-to-to the dad that you had?
human
Mm.
gpt
Yeah. Okay.