"= May 2011 = 

 == Table sorting and ANI == 

 Thank you for your level-headed attempts to resolve the dispute at WP:ANI#Editing from 125.162.150.88. I seem to have been too terse in my description of the technical problem, so perhaps I can explain to you in a little more detail, as each extra editor that understands properly increases our ability to avoid such problems in future. 

 In many tables, there are two possible data items to consider: a single year like 2005 or a range like 2005–2006. If we write the range using an en-dash, then all browsers including Safari 4.1 will sort them as we would expect. However, Safari 4.0 does not sort them properly, but it would work if we used a hyphen instead of the en-dash. Jack prefers to ignore the Safari 4.0 problem as it requires no 'fixes' or difficulty for editors to implement and it uses en-dashes per MOS:ENDASH. Gimme prefers to use hyphens or as a written form like ""2005 to 2006"", neither of which comply with our guidance to use en-dashes and keep table entries compact. It is possible of course to use a sort key like {{sort|2005.5|2005–2006}} – which works with Safari 4.0 – but you then have to put a sort key on every item in the column (otherwise it screws up on Safari 4.0 again!). So there you have it, three possibilities: one is simple and MOS-compliant but fails on Safari 4.0; one is also simple and works on Safari 4.0 but fails to comply with MOS; the third solution works with all browsers and is MOS-compliant but takes effort to implement and maintain. 

 Personally, I dislike Gimme's option since he has to keep watch over every article where he uses hyphens or words, because users and bots regularly come along and change hyphens in date ranges to en-dashes. He then has to revert them and get involved with trying to explain why he's making an article non-MOS-compliant. No wonder he gets grumpy! I should make clear that I've worked with Jack on a number of initiatives to improve usability and accessibility (like the ""plainrowheaders"" class) and regard him as a wiki-friend, so you will have to take that into consideration when judging my comments. Nevertheless your efforts to settle these issues are appreciated. Regards,    
 ::: I concur that summary covers the issue. In particular, I'm glad RexxS mentioned that you have to put the  code on every line to make sure it will work. However, I am disinclined to participate in any discussion where admins continue to tolerate uncivil and ABF statements like ""Gimme deliberately taking a stance against whatever I'm working on"".    
 ::::Well, if you choose not to take part, you won't have any say in the outcome - but you will still be bound by any consensus decision that is reached. And I will be asking everyone to stick to the technical issue and not make personal attacks (which will include you too)     
 ::::: Well, your failure to act or warn the IP means you de facto support the IP's ABF and incivility. if you refuse to do anything to keep the discussion within the bounds of civility and AGF, then you will be responsible.    
 ::::::Listen, I've told you my take on that - you were both being dicks. And I told you I am absolutely not going to support your dickishness against someone else's dickishness. All I am going to do is try to help with the decision on the technical issue. And if you really want to act in good faith, how about you give this a chance and stop throwing mud at me before it's even been started, eh?     
 ::::::: Have you told the same to the IP? If so, please provide diff. If not, why not?    
 ::::::::I made my position quite clear in the ANI to both of you, and it's you continuing to make these demands of me here, not him. So obviously not, no, I have not replied to his non-existent demands the way I have replied to your continuing demands. Now, this is about the table issue, so if you wish to constructively take part in that, please do. But if you want to carry on making demands and accusations against me, please go elsewhere to do it - I will not be responding to any further comment from you that is not directly related to the table sorting issue     

 :::::::::Gimmetoo, it's in your best interest to participate in the RFC.  I'm sur