" August 2011 (UTC) 

 :I can't speak for the NRA, although I am a member.  What I do see, is an agency, with some excellent agents, apparently driving down a road to self-destruction, with a corporate culture of ""damn public opinion"" and ""damn Congressional inquiries"", ""we know better than anyone else how to run this agency"".....  Lying to Congress and the American People is not a viable way to run an agency.  Maybe for the short-term (under this administration), but not for the long-term.  You've hit the nail on the head.  The Agency does a lot of very good work, with (I understand), a lot of convictions of bad guys, so why would they find it necessary for management to deny, then lie and do a little soft-shoe around ""Fast and Furious"" and other such programs?  Did they think the American People are too stupid to figure it out?  Why, too, did they find it necessary to organize a little taxpayer-funded ""celebration"" for the implementation of the multiple long gun reporting requirement (just revealed) - in defiance of existing law?  It's a very curious situation. 

 :You have a good point about the V.I. judicial system....  Although, I personally can't seem to come to grips with Clark ""emptying his revolver"" into the guy.  OK, it was only a 5-shot revolver.  But he was a trained agent.  Was he not trained in non-lethal techniques?  I know it's second-guessing, but a single round through the shoulder (non-lethal) might have eliminated the flashlight threat.  Right?  I wouldn't say it was murder, but excessive force?  Looks like it to me - and to others. 

 :Yeah, dumping ATF functions into other agencies may be a case of ""out of the frying pan, into the fire""......  And if they rescue and transfer the rogue managers, then we'll be right back where we started - maybe worse.  As the agents in www.cleanupatf.org keep saying, the Agency needs a good housecleaning.  If that could be accomplished and the the bad apples in management removed, then that might be a step in the right direction.... 

 :In the meantime, it seems appropriate to continue to point out the warts in the agency..... 

 In good faith 

   02:50, 29"