&gt; most of the engineers flailing around here work with PMs in their day job, whose job it is to do what isn&#x27;t getting done here.<p>That sure would be nice.  Almost every PM I&#x27;ve work with has actually just been a source of busywork who seemed to view their job as to ensure that the engineers spent as much time on issue management as possible.  The only one which actually tried to do it himself had a habit of closing actionable bug reports because the reporter didn&#x27;t bother giving the useless extra info that the PM asked for, while sending all the useless ones on to the developers.