for those who are curious the whole discussion thread can be read here <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;markmail.org&#x2F;message&#x2F;kndbnthmmlai2ky6#query:+page:1+mid:2gklodigelhzd4pi+state:results" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;markmail.org&#x2F;message&#x2F;kndbnthmmlai2ky6#query:+page:1+m...</a>