&gt; Call it what you like. The point is that clear separation between logic and markup can be done and is valuable.<p>You concede the original point.  To your new point, saying something is valuable doesn&#x27;t make it valuable.  Why?  It decreases cohesion, which is not good.<p>&gt; Any web page that has inputs or controls is necessarily stateful - otherwise where does the input go?<p>If this is a serious question, it&#x27;s too far off any original point to teach you unfamiliar concepts.  Learn about what stateless, declaratively, &amp; imperatively UI means so there aren&#x27;t strawmans, and so you can weigh in on these discussions.<p>&gt; There&#x27;s nothing imperative about it. Have you looked seriously at Wicket or are you just throwing buzzwords around?<p>Please do not dilute conversations on here by name calling.  Imperative &amp; state are basic computer science terms... o_O