&gt;&gt;&gt;yes family members are absolutely &quot;victimized&quot; by their loved ones&#x27; self-destruction.<p>They may be traumatized, but they are not victimized<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;Some proponents of drug prohibition would argue that people (particularly teens) are not using drugs of their own free will<p>those same people believe that nothing is &quot;free will&quot;. That free will does not exist.  You should ignore those people.<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;It&#x27;s certainly not a property of the universe - just 400 years ago there&#x27;d have been no question that the lord of the manor owned all your labor,<p>Using unethical policies in history to justify more unethical polices today is ridiculous.<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;Failure to help your fellow man obviously has victims - thousands of people die of circumstances that could have been alleviated by your money.<p>You keep using the word victim to describe tragedies, I do not think you understand the difference. Humanities failure to help people in need is not victimizing them,  it is a tragedy.<p>&quot;It’s amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness.<p>People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered, and if we’re compassionate we’ll help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint.&quot; -- Penn Jillette