[Quotes reordered for clarity of response.]<p>&gt; At least for me, the question is not, &quot;...<p>Look, I&#x27;m sure progressives don&#x27;t mean to sound patronizing when pushing for any of their pet programs -- however, the truth of the matter is you are no more able to dictate how people feel about what you say than you can the weight bearing capacity of a bridge or the speed of a computer program. [That is -- you can exert some control, but it&#x27;s not done by directly writing the answer on the blueprints.]<p>I even read your original post in this thread as asking the right sort of question to exert that control: &quot;When progressives put forth a program, what is it their opponents hear that seems distasteful?&quot; and I gave you my answer to that question.<p>&gt; I think this is why the only reasonable end-game for progressive ideas is ...<p>Just... stop right there. First off, I wasn&#x27;t trying to address any sort of ivory tower, idealized &quot;progressive ideas&quot; -- yes, I&#x27;m sure there are academics who want something like universal income, healthcare, education, etc. I&#x27;m talking about the ones agitating in the streets for a $15 minimum wage, or the politicians who were willing to pass Obamacare <i>instead of</i> single-payer programs. In fact, I find it highly likely that such ideologues are ostracized even among left-leaning groups in the US, because that is not what is put forth by most progressive (Democrat) politicians.<p>Second, I don&#x27;t really have any feelings one way or the other about those programs. Like the examples above, I don&#x27;t think human beings have direct, final control over (or even enough knowledge to say in advance) what systems will or won&#x27;t work. Instead, we need to attempt a great many different things -- yes, UBI among them -- to sort out which ideas are good or bad, because not all possible flaws are immediately obvious. [Remember in my last post how I said I&#x27;m &#x27;nearly&#x27; an anarchist? This is most of what I meant -- making sure there&#x27;s always room for experiments in governance, in order to reduce our ignorance about the mercurial nature of things.]