Verbal sparring is nothing to be afraid of or to shy away from, we&#x27;re adults and are staying within the guidelines here. It is known for the frequent use of metaphor. Examples of this can be found up-thread in, well, your rather colorful comments about severed limbs and heads popping off! Amusing yes, but not convincing. But not amusing enough to revisit months later - better and healthier to let it go and move on, thanks.<p>I&#x27;ve provided numerous facts and backed them up with links to sources. That is a substantial transfer of information which you didn&#x27;t acknowledge. What does all that great security you describe mean for all those people not getting updates? It is a real problem.<p>You go on to say <i>&quot;That is to say, unless you purposely go very far out of your way to install custom system software that deliberately weakens critical Android security features -thus putting your Android device pretty squarely in the realm of PC-level security-, then there is no software in the Play Store that will take over your Android device.&quot;</i> The Viking Horde malware is bad enough with the ads popping up and dangerous links appearing, whether this is &#x27;safely&#x27; sandboxed on a vanilla install or completely taking over a rooted devices is of little significance to me. I don&#x27;t want ANY of it.<p>I&#x27;d like a secure messaging app that can be installed on a more hardened version of Android like CopperheadOS, which does not require the constant &#x27;phoning home&#x27; to Google that most Android phones do. Remote install capability via Google Play is huge red flag and a deal breaker for me, but I understand Moxie intends to target more mainstream users and has to make compromises to serve them.<p>A fair number of Android users like me are more concerned about the mass surveillance practices of advertisers such as Google than we are about the full-on &#x27;tinfoil hat&#x27; NSA stuff. I don&#x27;t like either, but the corporations are more worrying because they&#x27;re attracting the better workforce with their higher pay and as a result are more effective. We want Signal to protect us from Google, not the NSA.<p>What initially made me post my first reply to your initial comment was that I saw it was attracting down-votes and I thought you put some effort into it and made some sound points, so I upvoted and replied. This thread has probably run it&#x27;s course at this point by my email is in my profile if you have anything else to add.