(This Ansfried is often suggested to be the younger nephew, and there is also debate about whether this Ansfried was in any case son of Lambert or Wicbert.) Nevertheless, all of these people are likely to be related to each other and presumably to share descent from Wicbert's grandparents Gisla and Rothing. When Otto I returned from Italy in early 965, historians such as Aarts think that the Ansfrid who appears in a high position in a list from Liège must be him, and not his nephew who was still young, and who may indeed still have been in Italy. Later in the 960s are two records of a Count Ansfried with a county in or near the Dutch river delta area, one in Varik in Teisterbant, and one in Toxandria. There is also one more charter which connects an Ansfried to the wife of his late Duke Gilbert, in 968, when he was involved in a charter concerning her allodial rights in the area of Meerssen in the Maasland. In July 985, one of the Ansfrieds, "comes illustris vir", was granted the County of Huy, near Liège. There are two very notable proposals which have created a lasting consensus, but which are widespread in secondary literature. Vanderkindere (1902), proposed that Ansfried was in fact the same person as Ehrenfrid, son of Ricfrid, and that an otherwise unattested sister of this Ehrenfried married the above-mentioned Lambert, the so-called Count of Louvain. The elder Ansfried, in this explanation, would actually be Bishop Ansfried's maternal uncle, normally "avunculus" in Latin. This is no longer widely accepted. Jongbloed (2009), proposed that Ansfried the elder married a daughter of Ehrenfried, based mainly on the story of Widukind mentioned above. He furthermore proposed that this Ansfried was, like his nephew with the same name, a founder of the Abbey of Thorn, though the two have later, according to him, become confused.