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"&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;On January 28, 2014, Northwestern quarterback Kain Colter and college athletes\u2019 rights activist Ramogi Huma stood next to each other at a press conference in Chicago and announced the formation of the College Athletes Players Association. CAPA would serve as a union for Northwestern football players, who had\u2014by \u201Can overwhelming majority,\u201D according to Huma\u2014elected to sign union cards and petition for a union.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;After several days of hearings in February to determine whether the players were eligible to unionize, a regional director of the National Labor Relations Board ruled in CAPA\u2019s favor, proclaiming that the relationship between players and universities legally fit the criteria for an employer-employee relationship. As Northwestern appealed the ruling, the players voted on whether or not to form a union.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The results of that vote will not be revealed until the NLRB rules on Northwestern\u2019s appeal, a decision originally expected to be released in December.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Huma, a former&amp;nbsp;UCLA linebacker and president of CAPA and the National College Players Association (NCPA) advocacy group, has watched carefully as changes have begun to take place at the NCAA level, from unlimited snacks for college athletes to autonomy for the five major conferences.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In a 30-minute phone conversation in June, Huma said he does not know when to expect a ruling on the Northwestern appeal but remains confident in CAPA\u2019s case. A recent report from &lt;em&gt;The Wall Street Journal&lt;/em&gt; said a decision is expected \u201Cin coming weeks.\u201D\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;\u200B\u200B&lt;strong&gt;SI: If the NLRB ruling on the Northwestern union is upheld, the players\u2019 votes will be revealed. A number of &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;media&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;strong&gt;reports&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt; from around when the vote was taken indicated that the vote would most likely be \u201Cno.\u201D Is that your expectation as well?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Ramogi Huma: We\u2019re hopeful for a positive outcome. Northwestern put a ton of pressure on the players, so we\u2019ll only know the answer to that if and when the results are revealed.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;But I think it\u2019s important to point out that really it\u2019s a win-win situation. Number one, the Northwestern football players have already created change. If you look at the amount of pressure they\u2019ve put on the system, a system that\u2019s been refusing to address basic protections for so long, now all of a sudden they have motivation to actually grant some of the things we\u2019ve been fighting for. Just in the last year there have been significant changes in policy.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I will point out, those policies are not legally binding. There\u2019s still a way to go. That\u2019s the difference between a collective bargaining agreement and a conference or NCAA policy. An NCAA policy is not enforceable, it can be changed on a whim, just as we saw in 2011 with the $2,000 stipend, which the NCAA initially approved only to take it away weeks later. Policies come and go, but I think college athletes are in need of legally binding protections. But it\u2019s a major step in terms of the progress we\u2019ve seen over the past year, and all of that credit goes to [former Wildcats quarterback] Kain Colter and the Northwestern football players who stood up.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In terms of the legalities and legal rights of players, it\u2019s also a win-win, as long as we win the ruling. The ruling itself is the most important thing. If the board rules in our favor and says \u201Cyes college athletes are employees with the right to unionize,\u201D that is the most important decision. As long as we win that ruling, this movement is in pretty good shape. You have a scenario where we win the ruling and win the vote, well then Northwestern players are that much closer to an actual union, although we expect Northwestern would try to challenge that and take it into federal court. But if we win the ruling and the players didn\u2019t vote to join a union at that time, well then we have a precedent, a standing at that time, as employees, for private school football players in the nation that the federal government considers them employees with the right to unionize.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: We haven\u2019t heard much from you and the NCPA recently. Are you waiting for the Northwestern domino to fall to see what happens next?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Well we never comment on our organizing strategy, but obviously this board ruling is going to set the tone in terms of the landscape of unionization for college athletes.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: Do you see unionization for college athletes as the way that this reform is going to happen, or are you still looking into other ways of accomplishing your goals?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: I think unionization is the best way for reform to occur and for players to have a vehicle to maintain legal protections. If we just look at the pro leagues, and I\u2019ll just say the &lt;em&gt;other&lt;/em&gt; pro leagues, we\u2019re not trying to reinvent the wheel here. We\u2019re trying to use a model that\u2019s tried, tested and proven. Not only effective in protecting players but at the core of what helps industries remain stable and prosperous. All the pro leagues are very healthy.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: Do you think it\u2019s good that threats to the NCAA are coming from all different directions, between the Ed O\u2019Bannon case, the Jeffrey Kessler case and all the various activists chiming in? Or would it be better if everybody on the same team, so to speak, were united on one front?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: Well, I think there\u2019s a core of unity. Even among players and advocates that have not met, the unity is that we are all united in trying to reform NCAA sports to give players a better deal in terms of basic protections and leverage and a voice. So I see all these difference challenges as positive. I haven\u2019t seen a challenge yet that would undermine that cause.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: In the Ed O\u2019Bannon case, the judge ruled that players can profit from the rights to their names, images and likenesses but capped compensation at $5,000.&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;They didn\u2019t actively. They left the door open for the NCAA to impose a cap. Whether or not the NCAA chooses to impose a rule to act on that, that\u2019s another story. Which we would expect them to do, but the judge did not impose the cap herself.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: So in your opinion, was that a total victory for reform, or was it kind of a qualified victory?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: I think it was a solid victory, but granting the NCAA limited anti-trust exemption to implement a $5,000 cap, I think that\u2019s a step in the wrong direction. I don\u2019t know that that part of the ruling will withstand additional scrutiny. I think at some point it\u2019s going to be challenged.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;\u200B&lt;strong&gt;SI: What do you think when you see college athletes, like Simon Cvijanovic from Illinois or Garrick Sherman from Michigan State and Notre Dame, kind of going rogue and calling out the NCAA or their individual programs? Is that advancing the cause, or is there a better way to do that?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: I definitely think it\u2019s advancing the cause. These players are using their voice, they have first-amendment protection. They\u2019re using their right to point out what they see as injustices or what they see in NCAA sports or both. I think it\u2019s definitely positive. The more players that speak out, the quicker change will come. You know, I didn\u2019t start the union at Northwestern. I can\u2019t. I\u2019m not a current player. It takes current players to stand up for themselves.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: Is reform needed more on the campus level, like we\u2019ve heard about at Illinois, or is it needed more at the NCAA level or both?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: Both. I think we\u2019ve done a good job over the years of laying out all the issues at the national level, the NCAA level, even the conference level. And we\u2019ve also zeroed in on whether or not schools do enough to protect their athletes even under NCAA rules. Because the schools could be doing more, even if none of the NCAA rules changed.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;And then you look at the accusations coming out of Illinois. There was just a lawsuit announced a couple days ago from a softball player that echoed some of the accusations of medical mistreatment of her concussion. And so clearly there are concerns at Illinois, and it really has teased out that coaches and administrators that can\u2019t really handle these issues can really be abusive. Players can be mistreated in many different ways, not just by policies but also whether there\u2019s inappropriate treatment of injuries or there\u2019s blackmail in a sense where someone is getting their future or their scholarship held over their head in terms of pressuring them to play with serious injuries. Emotional abuse, potential racism. There\u2019s a lot of ugly things that have been discussed.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;How do you deal with that? They definitely need protections. I don\u2019t necessarily think those are policies. Those are just the need to protect these people as human beings first and foremost and not treat them as property whose bodies are expendable. So how do you wrap your head around that, how do you address that?\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So I think Simon, and these other players that have spoken out are advancing that at Illinois. I don\u2019t see any scenario where Illinois walks away from this without serious changes, and that would have never happened had the players not spoken out.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: The North Carolina academic fraud scandal presents an interesting ideological dilemma. Many people are outraged by the revelations of institutional dishonesty at a top school, and others have taken the attitude of, \"they\u2019re not there to study anyway, let them play sports in peace.\" Where do you fall?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: I think there are too many extremes in that conversation. At the end of the day, it\u2019s healthy to recognize that these players are subject to serious athletic time demands. In the Northwestern case, we used Northwestern\u2019s itineraries. We didn\u2019t make this stuff. You had players spending 50 hours a week on their sport alone. And on top of that they\u2019re expected to be fulltime students? It\u2019s very difficult.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Another issue is that most universities allow players in with relaxed standards in terms of academic performance\u2014and they do that for other students on campus as well\u2014but I believe there\u2019s a responsibility if they admit a student, they have to do everything they can to give that student a realistic opportunity to get a quality degree. If you\u2019re going to let these students in you\u2019ve got to educate them. And in terms of athletes, you have to accommodate for their athletic schedules.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;What we\u2019ve advocated for is to put some of these resources toward educational trust funds that would allow people to complete their degree if they needed another semester or two to graduate and to incentivize them. If they complete their degree on time they can get an ear-marked amount of money, and if they don\u2019t, that money can be used by the player to complete their degree.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: What would you say to an athlete who expresses the Cardale Jones, sentiment, the \u201CWe ain\u2019t come to play school\u201D kind of idea?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;You can\u2019t mandate on intent. That\u2019s what the NCAA tries to do, and every time I shake my head. The NCAA says, \u201CWell they come here for an education and to be amateurs and to uphold the NCAA values.\u201D How do they know? They haven\u2019t asked the players. And clearly there are players out there that, that\u2019s not the primary reason they come to college. There are some that are and some that aren\u2019t. You can\u2019t pigeonhole all the players in the nation under a certain ideology. There\u2019s a segment of players, some players especially in basketball, they\u2019re now forced to go to college in order to go to the NBA.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The one-and-done phenomenon is true in that not all players want to go to college and not all players would rather stay in college and earn a degree rather than go pro. The NCAA is full of hypocrisy. And if you step away and look at all the rhetoric, the only thing that makes sense is that if you have the perspective of, this is a business trying to maximize revenue, and they will say anything and do anything they want in order to maximize revenue, then everything makes sense. But if you try to follow the NCAA\u2019s logic then you\u2019re ultimately going to be advocating for hypocritical policies and practices.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;\u200B&lt;strong&gt;SI: Many people, smart people, instinctively cringe at the idea of college athletes being paid. Why is the concept so hard for people to wrap their minds around?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;RH: I think they\u2019ve been conditioned to think that way for 65 years of spin that the NCAA has been paying for. And the NCAA has been trying to label \u201Cpay-for-play\u201D as something dirty. But when they began to pay players in the 1950s in the form of a scholarship, they knew that this was pay-for-play. But what they did was try to wrap it up, put it in a bow and say, \u201COh this is just a scholarship.\u201D But they did that to avoid workers\u2019 compensation liability.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So all those people, if they were to sit back and realize that we\u2019ve already arrived at pay-for-play, that there is an employee-employer relationship, then I think it would be less taboo in their minds.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SI: What will college sports look like in 10 years?&lt;/strong&gt;\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I would say 10 years from now college athletes will have a real seat at the table, a real voice. I think that they will have legally guaranteed protections, and I think that some of the value that they generate will go to them in some way, whether it be a trust fund for them after they\u2019re done.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I don\u2019t think it\u2019ll be either extreme. I don\u2019t think you\u2019re going to see college athletes with multi-million-dollar salaries, but they\u2019re not going to be living below the poverty line like they are now. The graduation rate isn\u2019t going to be hovering around 50% for football and basketball players like it is now. And I think players are going to have long-term support for the injuries they suffer in college sports. I think that there are going to be mandated rules to minimize traumatic brain injuries and other serious injuries.\r\n\r\n&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I think we\u2019ll be in a much better place.\r\n&lt;/p&gt;"^^<http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string>
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