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Palestinian Islamists are cleansing the Holy Land of Christians 

posted byArchbishop Cranmer at 7:23 am Permalink bluedog said...

An excellent and timely post in the current circumstances, Your Grace. Only the thickest Leftist could maintain 'It won't happen here'. Sadly it has happened everywhere that there is a Muslim majority and Christian communities are being progressively extinguished.

Turn the other cheek, eh, Bob the Buddhist?

Of course the Left have their telescopes firmly held to the blind eye, seeking every opportunity to enforce BDS on the only multi-faith democracy in the Middle East, Israel. The Patriarchate in Jerusalem is in rude health while that of Constantinople hangs by a thread. Antioch and Alexandria are just memories.

Most radical of all is His Grace's revelation, 'Last week the Catholic Herald reported that five Church Schools ("two Catholic and three Christian")'. This protestant cynic would be tempted to conclude that the RCC is belatedly admitting that it is not in itself, Christian. However, your communicant prefers not to break the more important thrust of the post so will not make that suggestion.

12 June 2013 at 08:33 Jim McLean said...

It certainly is time for the Churches to be more vocal. Remember when Pope Benedict was pressured into issuing an "apology" for merely mentioning historical facts about Mulsim-Christian relations? Even the leaders of Churches are drawn into this Blair-ite culture of twisted words and platitudes.

12 June 2013 at 08:46 Harry-ca-Nab said...

Why is it that wherever our Western leaders intervene they end up disadvantaging (gross understatement)or overlooking the plight of Christian populations?

Kosovo, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey etc

12 June 2013 at 09:13 seanrobsville said...

@ Bluedog

Buddhists have indeed turned the other cheek at this kind of thing for 1400 years. But lately
they've realised it doesn't always work.

12 June 2013 at 09:40 LEN said...

Christianity and Islam are incompatible.One has only to compare the teachings of Mohammed and Jesus Christ to see the radical differences.
Jesus preached a message of love and reconciliation with a Holy God. Jesus died in atonement for the sins of His followers to make this reconciliation with God possible.The authority of Jesus Christ is revealed through the Prophetic Scriptures in the Bible.
Jesus came to give His followers 'Life'.

Mohammed on the other hand lived a life of violence, His teachings are confused, and Mohammed`s 'Allah' sends his followers out to die for him.

Those of the 'flesh'( hold to Worldly value systems) hate those of the Spirit and will do all they can to dominate intimidate and subjugate those of the Spirit.
It come of no surprise(to me) that Muslims cannot tolerate Christians)or indeed anyone who will not prostrate themselves before their 'Allah'.
Islam believes it needs to subjugate the entire World to bring honour to their 'Allah'.

The God of the Bible wants followers united to Him though the Power of Love.
The 'Allah' of Islam wants people subjugated to him through whatever means it takes to make them do so.

12 June 2013 at 09:42 spicksandspecks said...

Your Grace,
As a resident of a country neighbouring Israel and the Palestinian territories, I see a very different picture to the one you present here. The tragedy of our brothers and sisters in the Palestinian territories is that they are persecuted simultaneously by both Israel (for being Palestinians) and Islamist Palestinians (for being Christians).

The 2012 US State Dept International Religious Freedom report (more current than the 2005 report you use as a source, and hardly a left-wing Palestinian friendly source) mentions the following issues Palestinian Christians face from the Israeli government or Israeli citizens(http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2012/nea/208394.htm)
- Limits on issuing visas to Christian clergy and other religious workers.
- Ability to reach places of worship due to the separation wall, and closures/curfews, especially in Bethlehem.
- Personal attacks on Christians and graffiti/ vandalism of churches by Israeli settlers that went unpunished by the police.
- Restrictions on expanding church buildings and discriminatory taxation practices.
- Christians being spat on and insulted by ultra-orthodox Jewish youths.

This summary statement is also instructive:
"Palestinian Christians and Muslims generally shared good relations, identifying more closely on ethnic and political similarities than religion. However, tensions were substantial between Jews and Palestinian Christians and Muslims, largely as a result of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and Israel’s control of access to sites holy to Christians and Muslims."
The same report also notes persecution by the PA and Islamic groups against Christians.

As an example of the visa issues mentioned in the report, the Anglican bishop of Jerusalem, Bishop Suhail (a Palestinian), had numerous difficulties in obtaining a residence permit to live in his Jerusalem home. The ABC himself had to intervene a couple of years ago to request Israel stop this ridiculous carry-on. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/04/anglican-bishop-jerusalem-sues-israel

Your Grace does our Palestinian brothers and sisters no favours by presenting a one-sided view of their struggle.

Andrew Reid

12 June 2013 at 09:57 
Is it any surprise that 'victims' will in their turn persecute those weaker than them?

It has always been thus and is solved only by the New Birth.

12 June 2013 at 10:24 
Christians are being persecuted worldwide.This is a fact. More Christians have been killed for their faith in the past century than in all the centuries of Christianity combined.

Jesus warns us that this persecution will happen.
The' Arab spring' and subsequent uprisings have far from bringing Democracy to these regions have seemingly allowed Islamic militants to gain control which will further endanger Christians and other groups.
 Dreadnaught said...

A bold and excellent piece YG, and something that needs to be seen and repeated by politicians and governments everywhere. It should not be left to the Christian Church alone to tackle this issue. This activity and intimidation will not indeed has not been be restricted to Gaza and the West Bank.

We have to break the circle of fear that travels with Islam anywhere it is allowed to take root.

Thank you YG.

12 June 2013 at 10:31 David Hussell said...

As the son, grandson and great grandson of decorated soldiers I feel no clash between my faith and self defense and the protection of my family, as well as those around me. I do not believe that Jesus's command in the garden, before his pre-ordained sacrificial death on the cross, was meant to prevent us protecting ourselves or the weak.
In the early American colonies Quakers, as pacifists, were protected from native attacks by the members of the other denominations. In Nigeria and Syria now Christian fathers, including pastors ( and I don't see why not mothers also) carry weapons to deter violence and protect their children. I would as well.
It may be an individual, personal decision to turn the other cheek, but those with young and family to protect have the duty to fight, if necessary. Article 37 of the Thirty Nine Articles states this, in its own way. I will now be told that I am a heretic no doubt, but I see Christianity as about protecting the weak not retreating in the face of evil.

12 June 2013 at 10:46 
The danger in responding to violence is that it hardens our own hearts - and only love can conquer hatred. In spite of all the suffering, we should try to remain mindful of all the good in the world.

While gazing at
Shiogama cherries
On a day in spring,
Who could possibly suppose
This is a sorrowful world?

-Kawai Koume

12 June 2013 at 10:53 
All very Zen but the danger in not responding is that one day they will rip out your heart and eat it.

Haven't you got a Haiku that some how poeticises the Rape of Nanking - that would be nice.

12 June 2013 at 11:04 
I am still waiting to hear the forceful condemnation of Christian persecutions in Pakistan arising from Archbishop Williams visit to Pakistan a few years back.

Instead all we heard was silence from the Anglican leader as from Western governments.


Why is it that every regime we attack is replaced with one that persecutes religious minorities?

12 June 2013 at 11:08 
-Lewis B. Smedes

12 June 2013 at 11:20 Corrigan said...

Oh, you finally noticed that Christians are being forced out of the Holy Land, have you, Cranmer? Well, I suppose it was easy to miss; up to now, it was only the Israelis who were doing it, so it didn't really count, did it?


It's wrong when Palestinians do it, but as far as Cranmer is concerned, it's just fine when the Zionists do it. Or maybe I just missed his post on that one.

12 June 2013 at 11:23 Archbishop Cranmer said...

Yes, Corrigan, you missed it, you ass.


12 June 2013 at 11:27 
2008, Cranmer? Yeah, you've really been keeping the Zionists feet to the fire on this one, haven't you?

12 June 2013 at 11:37 
Dreadnaught @ 11.04 - priceless.

12 June 2013 at 11:49 
Let's aim, work and pray for a better world, ordered by the Christian Triune God. My hope is in Him, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
In the meanwhile I shall talk softly but carry as big a stick as it needs.
Pacifism doesn't work, it merely encourages evil. Who would be left to proclaim the Gospel ?

12 June 2013 at 12:44 Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Corrigan,

As usual you aren't actually offering any sympathy for Christians, but using the post for your usual attacks on Israel and Mr Cranmer.

One would note ,though, the brotherly love Christians showed between themselves given the tiff and violence a few years ago in The Church of the Holy Sepulchre ,where different denominations claim different bits of the Church as their own territory.

12 June 2013 at 13:57 
Also, I would be the first to condemn any attack on a holy building by Jews against another faith. Yes there are extremists nuts among us and yes unfortunately there was a recent attack against a church in Israel, but the difference is we speak out, condemn them and make sure the full force of the law is applied against these vandals and thugs.

12 June 2013 at 14:45 
Hi Bob

When I read your posts, you remind me of Donald Sutherland in Kellys Heroes, converting his tank so that it shoots paint instead of shells, and makes "pretty pictures" instead of "negative waves"

Not a criticism, just an observation.


12 June 2013 at 15:07 
In support of Cranmer’s OP

Christians throughout the Middle East are being attacked and killed while thousands upon thousands have fled their homeland in hopes of finding a safe haven in western countries. For example, in Iran, the Revolutionary Guard has taken over the oversight of churches and has arrested scores of Christian converts from Islam. In Kuwait, the Saudi grand mufti told crowds that it is “necessary to destroy all the churches in the Arabian Peninsula.” In Gaza, Christians have allegedly been kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam.

and as in the OP

Five Christian schools are set to be closed down in Gaza as a result of a decision taken by the Hamas government. The decision is to ban coeducational institutions as a reflection of an increasing conservative Islamic value system. While the law does not specifically target Christians the only coeducational schools are the two Catholic and three Christian schools. The two Catholic schools would be forced to shut down, ending their service to more than 1,000 students.


12 June 2013 at 15:52 
The evidence is overwhelming, throughout history and nowadays, that Islam is incompatible with everything except its own version of Islam. Liberalism and Humanism are enjoying a brief period of expansion and success at present in the west but soon, as the demography changes, it will be a different story, I say with no satisfaction. Society will fracture, even more than at present, into competing groups. There will be periods of comparative rest and calm punctuated by periods of unrest and trouble, but the context and trajectory will be never ending strife and a jockeying for power. I am optimist by nature but the trends are fairly clear for all but the most wooly headed to discern. The only point where I agree with Richard Dawkins is that there will be trouble, on that point he is a realist. We may, as we have before, avoid the worst excesses but only if we regain control over our own borders.

12 June 2013 at 16:45 Office of Inspector General said...

Is it the Inspector, or does Johnny Islam in Gaza come across as a particular verminous strain of the beast. Now, if so, that would be quite an achievement for the ‘Religion of Peace’, one muslim crowd being worse than the rest, what !

What does surprise is yet another report of ultra-orthodox Jewish youth being rotten to Palestinian Christians.

Do you know, the muslims do have something in banning co-education. One feels that its introduction in the UK has resulted in lax attitudes to sex and women in general, whereas of course, they are both to be highly prized. Any advantages to co-education are completely nullified by that alone. One also can’t help feeling that co-education has resulted in a significant loss of femininity and masculinity of the sexes, leading to an unhappy sameness, an aspect which is probably highly prized by the cultural Marxists who run this country.

12 June 2013 at 17:46 carl jacobs said...

Since Corrigan's preferred solution to the 'Palestinian problem' is the forced expatriation of Jews, I am not too surprised that he used this post as an opportunity to attack the Israelis. If he wouldn't be too concerned about Hamas expelling Jews, then he can't complain too much about Hamas expelling Palestinian Christians. Even so, if the opportunity to attack the Israelis presents itself, he might as well avail himself of it.


12 June 2013 at 18:45 The Explorer said...


I say, old chap, that last photo was a bit short-lived.

The comments have always been wonderfully unpredictable, but now the logo is becoming so as well. Stick with this one for a bit, won't you? (Provided Hannah K approves, of course.)

12 June 2013 at 19:01 
Your request granted Explorer. The Inspector today reveals his “Now See Here” avatar. It makes sense, you know...

One hopes Silly Thing understands...

12 June 2013 at 19:11 
Your avatar seem to be taking on aspects of 'dorian grey '?.

Anyway keep it up its quite amusing .

12 June 2013 at 19:23 
Damn irritation on this site tonight. Wonder what’s causing it...

12 June 2013 at 19:37 
My complaint, oh favourite creationist of mine, is not so much about Jews expelling Palestinians or Muslims expelling Christians, so much as our genial host's outrage at the thought of Muslims expelling Christians when he doesn't seem to have a problem with Jews expelling Christians. I think we can assume he's got over that little attack of the vapours five years back, since we haven't heard any criticism on that score since.

My "preferred solution", by the way, is a single state, but as that would mean an equal stake for Goyim, I can see why Zionists would have a problem with it. I do wonder why people who call themselves Christian struggle with it, though.

12 June 2013 at 19:52 Naomi King said...

Why do we have to refer to this land as "the occupied territories" or the "west bank" ? It is neither it is Israel and will always be Israel.

And furthermore the LORD has promised the jewish people, in perpetuity, all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates (Genesis 15 : 18) so the muslim arabs better get used to it, God's word will be fulfilled.

12 June 2013 at 19:55 
Hi Inspector,

You are apparently looking 'more dishy' by the day!

Responses to the bull posted here later...

12 June 2013 at 19:59 
Thank you Your Grace for making these points so clearly and so well researched. I am grateful that the truth of the Muslim Arabs lies, duplicity and hatred towards Christians is being exposed. There is nothing cuddly or truthful about a muslim arab, now a Christian arab that is a different thing as the young woman from Bethlehem evidences.

Well done Your Grace.

12 June 2013 at 20:01 
Oh, Lord, Naomi's back. Cranmer must have run out of mogodon. Ok, since it's "Justify your prejudice by selective use of scripture" time, I select Luke 23:28-31

28 But Jesus turning to them, said: Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not over me; but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For behold, the days shall come, wherein they will say: Blessed are the barren and the wombs that have not borne and the paps that have not given suck. 30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains: Fall upon us. And to the hills: Cover us. 31 For if in the green wood they do these things, what shall be done in the dry?

How about that one, Naomi? Should we have Carl call his creationist pals in the Pentagon and launch a nuclear strike against the Israelis? Or should we do it like the Catholic Church, read the Bible in its entirity (including the bits that don't tell us what we want to hear) and then try to find the whole truth? Oh, silly me, we've already done it for you.

12 June 2013 at 20:19 Johnny Rottenborough said...

Gatestone’s latest round-up of the Muslim persecution of Christians is published today. All the usual suspects—Nigeria, Egypt, Pakistan, etc—and a Muslim convert to Christianity who was murdered in Holland.

12 June 2013 at 20:48 Phil Roberts said...

Very good, best comment of the evening.

12 June 2013 at 21:17 

Anders B of Norway felt his education had feminised him by forcing him to do needlework.

He took his revenge by using his sewing skills to stitch his battle armour.

You could be on to something.

12 June 2013 at 21:26 

12 June 2013 at 21:55 Avi Barzel said...

Corrigan, you pathetic antisemite. Any way you can twist facts to get at Jews, even if it hurts and kills Christians, whom you pretend to feel a fellowship for. What a disgrace you are, man.

From the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics in 2012:

The Christian community in Israel is 158,000-strong.

Christians living in Israel are well-educated and prosperous, but Muslim Arab persecution in northern Israel, where many Christians live, are causing them to relocate to Jewish areas or emigrate to the West. Not the fictional "Palestine" or other brother-Arab nations.

Christians make up 2% of Israel's population, and their numbers grew in the 1990s due to Christians from the former Soviet Union who were given Israeli citizenship under family reunification and humanarian grounds in the Israeli the Law of Return.

Christian Arabs are among the most successful groups in Israel... if not the most successful one. In 2011, 64% of the community's high school graduates were eligible for Bagrut matriculation certificates, generally a requirement for entry to Israeli universities, whereas that figure for Jews was 59%, and 48% for Muslims. The CBS statistics also showed that Christian Arabs enjoyed relatively high incomes, and were generally more prosperous than their Muslim neighbors.

The occasional thuggery against Christians by Jews, just as occasional attacks by ultra-Orthodox against secular Jews, all get the man-bites-dog attention and make the antisemites wet in the pants, but are numerically insignificant in relation to usually coordinated and deadly Muslim attacks against Jews and Christians. Attacks against Christians and Arabs get extra attention by the police and the courts, more than those of Arab or ultra-Orthodox aagainst mainstream Israelis. It takes a unique, ethically cripled gnome like Corrigan to fictionalize reality, regardles of whom it hurts....or kills...as long as he gets to snarl and howl at the Joos.

12 June 2013 at 21:57 
"Crucified Again: Exposing Islam's New War on Christians"


is a shocking and thorough expose of the new wave of persecution of Christians in Muslim countries, and by radical Muslims worldwide. Raymond Ibrahim combines a wealth of examples with the historical context of Islam's anti-Christian sentiment to demonstrate the urgency of this human rights crisis.

1) To document that which the mainstream media does not: the habitual and chronic, Muslim persecution of Christians.

Accordingly, whatever the anecdote of persecution, it typically fits under a specific theme, including :-

1 hatred for churches and other Christian symbols;

2 sexual abuse of Christian women;

3 forced conversions to Islam;

5 theft and plunder in lieu ofjizya (financial tribute expected from non-Muslims);

7 simple violence and murder.

Often it is a combination of all these.

Because these accounts of persecution span different ethnicities, languages, and locales—from Morocco in the West, to India in the East, and throughout the West wherever there are Muslims—it should be clear that one thing alone binds them together: Islam—whether the strict application of Islamic Sharia law, or the supremacist culture born of it.

Raymond Ibrahim is author of "Crucified Again: Exposing Islam's New War in Christians" (published by Regnery, April 2013). He is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and an associate fellow at the Middle East Forum.

12 June 2013 at 21:58 
This is why Lee Rigby died. RIP

12 June 2013 at 22:03 
The question is, how does one succeed in achieving coverage of this worldwide persecution in the mainstream media ? And what does it take for this to be brought to the fore politically, here nationally, EU wide and at the UN ? Does the PC, liberal west now hate Christianity so much that it has no conscience for this faith group ? Is the historic, national religion that much of an embarrassment ?

12 June 2013 at 22:07 
Ah, Avi, my Zionist bro, it seems so long since you've liabled me, and how I've missed the screech of "Aggg! Anit-semite!" whenever I make a mild criticism of Israel. I was beginning to think you no longer believed yourself entitled as of right. Thanks for caring. And just to show I care too, I'm sending you a DVD for your birthday. I know Zionists like a good heist movie. How about The Great Terrain Robbery?

12 June 2013 at 22:35 david kavanagh said...


'Or should we do it like the Catholic Church'

When it comes Jews and your ideological hate of Israel, no thanks man!

However, you should note that the head of 'the Church', that is the Catholic Church apparently appointed by your Jesus, with total authority, Pope John Paul II,

said :

And :

“I assure the Jewish people the Catholic Church ... is deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place”, he added that there were “no words strong enough to deplore the terrible tragedy of the Holocaust”


So up yours!

12 June 2013 at 22:38 
I meant "pathetic antisemite" in the mildest and kindest of ways due to your mild criticism, Corrigan, old chum. The "Great Terrain Robbery"...hahaha, I like that one. You mean of course the current race by Jerusalem's Muslim Arabs to grab property away from the Green Line, in case Israel gets stupid enough to to hand the Old City to the PA and and strands them to the mercies of their fellow Muslims? Tell them not to worry, it won't happen. Hugs and kisses to you too.

12 June 2013 at 22:54 Peter Simpson said...

I appreciated David Hussell's previous comment about the need to control our borders here in the UK. Generally the churches for 50 years have been telling us that this is 'un-Christian'. Nationhood, however, is a Biblical ordinance, and border control a duty before God.

Re DH's last post, yes, we absolutely must speak out more about the plight of persecuted Christians. It is an urgent obligation to impress the facts upon our politicians, for it is the body of Christ which is suffering.

12 June 2013 at 22:59 
Hi Corrigan

'My "preferred solution", by the way, is a single state'

Well we agree with that one, a single state in which Israel includes Judea and samaria... I am sure that you will be welcoming of the Arabs to Ireland...

If not I am sure Israeli technology could give them a bit of Saudi Arabia or Jordan or Egypt, with the technology they have to turn deserts into livable areas. Like the bit when you say Jews took Arab swamps and deserts (legally though) and turned them into such...

12 June 2013 at 23:01 

'Ok, since it's "Justify your prejudice by selective use of scripture"'

Yes you do that all the time.

But OK :

"I have come down to rescue [Jews] from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey"

Exodus 3 vs 8

The land of Israel is G-d's land, the place where Divine providence is especially manifest:

"The eyes of the Lord... are always upon it, from the beginning of the year to the end of the year" (Deuteronomy 11:12).

Israel is a "Very, very good land" (Numbers 14:7);

"a blessed land" (Deuteronomy 33:13)

"the beauty of all lands" (Ezekiel 20:6)

So as you can see Israel is NOT something which your Catholic Church can simply take or bargain away from the Jewish people...

12 June 2013 at 23:11 
Hi Len,

Inspector as Dorian Gray?


Our Inspector might be anti-gay, anti-immigration, right wing reactionary & non- orthodox Catholic, but I don't think he's surrendered his soul to the Baal in order to be immortal and look young in perpetuity!

12 June 2013 at 23:19 ukFred said...

How could you, Your Grace.

Sarcasm Alert

By posting this you are confusing the issue with truth. There is a political narrative to maintain. By doing this you are not helping maintain the facade that Palestinian=Good and Israel=Bad.

End of Sarcasm Alert

12 June 2013 at 23:28 
Naomi King @ 22.03, regarding Lee Rigby, apologies if you have already seen this. A bit schmaltzy, but touches a chord:

Just out for a walk after an early stack
Not looking for trouble not watching my back
Mothers with prams holding hands with their kids
Not paying attention to the car as it skids

Caught completely off guard not expecting what comes
One man with a knife another with guns.
No chance of defence no chance to fight back
Looking for help as the cowards attack

An angel arrives as the light turns to grey
A woman attempts to steer attackers away
My last thought of ‘Thank You’ never strays from my brain
As my body shuts down and I feel no more pain.

I look to my left and I look to my right
Thousands of squaddies are all that’s in sight
Uniforms are crisp and their faces are clean
No sign of anger or hate to be seen
As if by command they salute all as one
The RSM smiles, says ‘Welcome home son’.

12 June 2013 at 23:44 
13 June 2013 at 03:29 

I agree that some defenders of Israel seem to be quite willing to overlook bad treatment of the Palestinians and perhaps you have a point in saying that our host ought to give that more attention.

However, the Israelis do not normally expel other Jews, although they have done so in the past when vacating territory handed over to the Palestinians, or, if I remember rightly, to Egypt.

This post is about Palestinians expelling other Palestinians, because of their religion, and the way that problem is ignored by much of the world's media.

13 June 2013 at 08:51 Peter D said...


Isn't Israel is a secular State, rather than a Jewish State. Are you implying that Christian citizens of Israel are not full Israelis or lesser Israelis because they are not Jews?

13 June 2013 at 12:38 John Thomas said...

Whatever the truth of who persecutes Chtistians the most, Israelis or Palestinian Islamists, the fact is that most mainstream Christianity in Britain is "led", or otherwise in the hands of, a clutch of Middle-Class left-wing "liberals" who will always come out against Israel and minimise any bad things done by any Palestinian authorities. The C of E - it's the 'Guardian' readership at prayer, remember, or at least its hierarchy, senior clergy, etc.

13 June 2013 at 12:55 
The larger picture does not bode well for Christians: eight million Copts in Egypt do not seem able to defend their interests against the Muslims. Two million Christians in Syria are caught between a rock and a hard place. Thanks to the blunder of Bush and Blair in invading Iraq, upto half a million Iraqi Christians have left. They should have listened to JPII when he pleaded to them not launch a useless and bloody war.

13 June 2013 at 12:57 
Peter, where do you see Roy implying that? He was comparing expulsions or lack thereof between Jews and Moslems.

In any event, blaming only the Palestinian Muslims or trying to pretend that Israel's treatment of the Jews is similar nicely absolves the Christian leaders of decades of abject appeasement and selling their own flock down the river. They made great efforts to promote Arabism and then "palestinianism" among their flock. They became informers against their people, recruiters for the terrorists and enforcers for programs. All this abject dhimmutide got them is a savage campaign of confiscations and ethnic cleansing all over the Muslim world and Jew baiters like my good buddy, Corrigan, will now scramble to lay the blame on Israel.

The solution is simple, but difficult and, in my opinion much too late. The assault against Christians could be rolled back in a fortnight if Churches spoke with one voice to expose the issue and to pressure their own governments to apply sanctions against the perpetrators. Instead, some Churches are complying with the PA distraction directives by gearing up boycott Israel campaigns, while most engage in pointless studies and dialogs, buying time for the Islamists.

13 June 2013 at 13:47 
<>Whatever the truth of who persecutes Chtistians the most, Israelis or Palestinian Islamists...<> (John Thomas)

The truth is knowable not that hard to get to ; a half hour broad search on Google will give you a background . Compare political rights and living conditions, number of Christian churches and businesses, opportunities for education, rights to speak out and publish. Let me know when Israel begins closing churches and Christian schools down, robbing, killing and raping as a policy of ethnic cleansing and I'll accept your obscurantism and equivalency. As things are now, Christian numbers are rising in Israel and drastically draining in the PA and Hamas areas. The campaign to drive or Islamicise Christians in Muslim controlled areas is nearly over, so I'm not sure what any attempt to halt it will accomplish at this point. Go and visit Bethlehem, once a Christian town, now another garbage strewn, hoodlum run Moslem hole and then the well-kept, wealthy Christian towns and neighbourhoods in Israel and we can discuss equivalency.

13 June 2013 at 14:12 

A single state solution. Really. My mistake then. It's just that the first time I asked you about what to do with those 6 million Israelis you said they didn't belong there and suggested they all move to Florida. So tell us. How would this single state solution work?


13 June 2013 at 14:21 
A single state in Florida?

13 June 2013 at 15:02 
Hannah . Our Inspector might be anti-gay

If you mean no special consideration for the homosexual community, then put him down as anti-gay. You yourself are anti-gay, would that you know it - by failing to support militant homosexuality’s every whim. You can put this to the test by going onto Pink News and stating your opposition to gay marriage. Be bemused and alarmed to find yourself branded as a self loather. If for jolly you then reply informing them of your religious convictions, you’ll really start them foaming at the mouth. You see, these men who think it perfectly normal to have sex with other men, and plenty of them at that, find that a bit odd, don’t you know…

13 June 2013 at 18:50 
Actually, Carl, what I said was that I would love to see your reaction if they DID all move to Florida and ran the locals out at the point of a gun, which is not quite the same thing.

As for how the one state solution would work, well, how's it working for Uncle Sam?

13 June 2013 at 19:41 
Fair to middling, I guess. But then, we didn't try to form a single country out of 6 million Jews and a surrounding sea of Muslims who want to kill them. Is this then your vision of a single state solution? Transporting American political structures to a unified state of Jews and Muslims? the campaigns would be exciting.

"Vote HAMAS! We'll return the Zionists to the ground of their homeland."

"Vote HAMAS! Unless you're a filthy Jew."

"Vote HAMAS! We've Learned from Hitler's Mistakes."

"Vote HAMAS! Let's fire up the ovens once again."

"Vote HAMAS! For a Jew-free Palestine."

I hope the Police don't discover that mysterious substance you have been smoking.


14 June 2013 at 01:11 
Spare us the gravy Avi, from the beginning the Israeli enterprise had imposed severe losses on Arab Christians. From the destruction of Christian villages to the robbery of their lands. All this admittedly in the context of a war without end in which Jews would have been subjected to the same had they lost. But the Palestinian Christians are not hallucinating when they finger the Israelis - at least in the period up to the 90s -as the major disenfranchisers.

The Israelis cared little for Christians or sought to make their lives easier, again I do not hold them for this, it is a dog-eat-dog world out there, and Jews and Christians had always had some antipathy as collectives towards each other.

The Christians of the Levant on the other hand owe nothing to the Zionists. They made their way into the 20th century with the help of the benevolence of the West - the US, French and British missionary societies and the sometimes heavy hand of the Russians. The Arab Christians have their own long history, their own achievements. Thus when Edward Said, or Karl Sabbagh or Hannan Ashrawi dismiss the tendentious hasbara accounts, they are not operating as collaborators or apologists for Islam or Arab imperialism, they are reporting what they saw first-hand or second-hand through their elders.

14 June 2013 at 03:14 


Yeah I've been called homophobic before because I didn't agree with SSM. Funnily enough, though, you said I was 'guilty by association' for not being a loud enough gay opposing SSM on a couple of threads back.

Sometimes, you just can't win!

14 June 2013 at 08:17 
Hi Carl,

Nope. The opposition to your state came from people who had bows and arrows, not rockets, grenades and machine guns.

PS- I doubt Corrigan, the UN or the Guardian would let you form the USA today, though.

14 June 2013 at 08:23 

14 June 2013 at 08:42 
It's quite funny isn't it, that a couple of posts go, Israel was seen as awful for wanting to expel Islamic asylum seekers from what is typically called 'the Zionist apartheid state'. Yes it is so bad, they claimed asylum in Israel, NOT in fellow Muslim countries- Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia. Doesn't that say something?
 
Also, I do not think that the one state solution as Corrigan sees it would work. Before long, it would become Lebanon - i.e. it would start off as a rich multi-cultural country, come tax haven, turned into a place of civil war and violence, because I simply don't think Jews or Christians (like Lebanon) would be allowed to be at peace whilst there is the 'will of Allah' to uphold.

I think that a two state solution is also doomed because of the strategic importance of the various 'occupied' territories. And besides which if Gaza is anything to go by, it would simply mean another poor, but richly armed state, lobbing missiles into the rest of Israel.

14 June 2013 at 08:49 Stephen Foot said...


Benny Morris points out that prior to 1948 war it was largely the wealthy Christian Palestinians who vacated their homes in order to avoid the fighting instigated by Egypt, Jordan and Syria. They subsequently became displaced and were unable to return after what they anticipated would be an Arab victory and the ethic cleansing of the Jewish Yishuv from former Palestine. Israel pleaded for a negotiated agreement that could have avoided bloodshed and war and it should not be forgotten that the Palestinian leadership of the day chose war rather than to accept the UN partition plan. Additionally, what aught to be remembered is that most of the fighting was not against the Palestinians, who largely fled the conflict, but the Arab armies of neighbouring states who were following their own agenda and not one that necessarily had Palestinian self-determination in mind. This is not to ignore the fact that Israeli forces went on to transfer some Palestinians from areas crucial to the future security of the State of Israel, but again this was not ethnic cleansing, it is disingenuous and ignorant to suggest otherwise.

You obviously feel passionately about the subject, but why so, after all these years?

14 June 2013 at 12:51 
Because I don't like people who think they can pee down my back and then tell me it's raining. I don't know where you're getting your history, but firstly, it makes no difference in international law whether the Palestinians fled "in anticipation of an Arab victory" or not; they own what they own, and what they own belongs to them, not to some bunch of settlers from Brooklyn. International law recognizes this principle because to do otherwise would be to recognize right of conquest. Secondly, in the six months before declaration of the Israeli state, the Zionists were murdering their way across Arab lands for the specific purpose of ethnically cleansing them. Remember, the UN boundaries of 1948 created a state with a 45% Arab population. In a triumphalist Jewish state, that was obviously untenable so the Arabs had to go. Thirdly, in the course of the Zionist rampage, the Americans called for a ceasefire which the Arabs accepted, but the Israelis wouldn't (not exactly the action of desparate victims, is it?). The famous "five Arab armies" with invaded in 1949 did so only after six months of Israeli atrocity (including Deir Yassin) and could only field a strength of 30,000 men, rougly the same as the Zionists. I mention that fact because the lying scumbags who apologize for Israel at every turn never do; far better to give the world the impression of the heroic Holocaust victim nobly battling the savage brown types.

What it comes down to, Stephen, is that I don't like people who think they can stick a key up my backside, wind me up and set me marching to the tune they play, which is exactly the way Zionists think of all Goyim.

14 June 2013 at 13:32 

"I don't know where you're getting your history"

Like I said, in this instance, Benny Morris.

The topic under discussion is whether Israeli forces committed ethnic cleaning on Palestinian Christians in 1948/9. Palestinian Christians were not ethnically cleansed and no amount of bluster can change the fact. Hamas are carrying out an organized plan to remove Christianity entirely from Gaza and would do the same on the West Bank of Jordan given half the chance.

Palestine was partitioned under International Law.

"they own what they own, and what they own belongs to them"


What Palestinians did not own was sovereignty in Palestine while they were under the governance of first Turkey, then Britain and then Jordan. They then promptly rejected the opportunity when it was offered.

"not to some bunch of settlers from Brooklyn."

Most Jewish refugees before, and at that time, were making their way to Brooklyn if they could, and via a staging post in Palestine if they had on other way in, not the other way around.

So were Palestinian, Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanians murdering their way across Palestine land for the specific purpose of ethnically cleansing them of Jews. Quid pro quo.

In order to get a grip on numbers in nineteenth century Palestine we can make a comparison to Cardiff City which has a population of around 300,000. Prior to the influx of both Arabs and Jews into British mandated Palestine, the population stood at about the same as Cardiff in an area bigger than Wales. The population of Palestine was ethnically mixed with no one group holding a balance of power.

There are lies, damn lies and percentages.

It's true the Jewish militia at the time were not quite the "Davids" some like to portray them as. Other than in acts of terrorism, Arab fighting ability has been proven to be notoriously under par while the Hagganah were utterly motivated and effective. However, the Jordanian army had been well prepared by the British under Glubb Pasha but still lacked the resolve to go further than taking the West Bank and Jerusalem, Successfully ethnically cleansing the entire region of its long standing Jewish community in doing so. Right up to the vote on partition, Palestinian leaders would countenance no other option than war, despite advice from many not to go that way.

A bit overblown, I think.

Whatever, I was just discussing your claim that Israel ethnically cleansed Palestine of its Christian Community.

You have brought zero evidence to the table that they did then, or do now.



14 June 2013 at 14:46 
Now wait. Wait just a gosh darn minute, here. Is that what you've been doing to me? I thought that thing in the picture was a phone!

[Angry scowl]


14 June 2013 at 18:32 
It's a fair cop, Carl,but I turn it off on shabbat, which gives you about 25 hours to be yourself, have your own thoughts,do your own things.....if your wife lets you, of course.

Greetings, Stephen Foot, not a bad summary, and while I might quibble over a few details, I won't, as your reprogramming session is coming up soon. We'll straighten things up during the next Good Zionist Goy Rewind session and have you humming. What Corrigan doesn't notice, or pretends to, is the tens of millions spent annually on promoting palestinianism internationally, at all sorts of venues from street level up through,media, academia and government. All up against Israel whose government thinks public relations is a waste of time and money and whenever it tries half-hartedly, it bungles things up and depends on volunteers like me to fix things up with heavy-duty stuff like letters to editors and MPs and blog comments. And duct tape. Well, I'm doing ok I guess, for Israel's still around.

14 June 2013 at 22:34 
You made me read nearly to the end of your condensed pseudohistory,  Ivan, for me to see its provenance.

Great sources, Said, Ashrawi, Sabbagh...the top frauds and sellouts who made out  well for themselves by siding with the Muslims and dragging their people down to where they are now. Transfered all the  depravations they suffered as dhimmis under Turkish masters and their crashing economies and the greedy Muslim Arab landowners and warlords straight onto the dreaded Zionists. You even ape those fraudsters' lingo, where every invader and despoiler of our land gets a nice indigenous sounding name, except for the Jews, who get to be called Zionists, a naughty sounding name, with all those hissing fricatives.  Not that I mind...it's a good word for me and I'm proud to call myself one.... but it does reveal your sources and prejudices.

Your revolutionary legends crumble in the face of reality, the reality being that the Christians of the Middle East are suffering and disappearing. Everywhere, except in Israel. And you're mumbling about pseudo histories by the palistiniast narrative shops, missionaries and other irrelevancies, hand waving and franticly pointing fingers at the Jews  while the Christians are being crushed and chased out. And it works too, and as we can see already, the Jews will get the blame for this too, but with all the other bullshit, we won't even notice, right?

O, and those frigging villages again. The entire Mediterranean world and the Balkans abandoned most of their stupid little villages because they were inefficient and unsustainable hovel prisons without infrastructures ruled by mafia dynasties. It's called a shift from agrarian to an industrial economy and is accompanied by a rapid urbanization. Or maybe it was the Zionists and the Rothschilds together with the interstellar Star People who cleared all the villages in southern Europe too. Could be, eh?.....can't prove we didn't.

14 June 2013 at 22:58 
So Avi, according to you everyone else apart from you, are engaged in pseudo-history, are sellouts and so on. Do you know how ridiculous you sound? You do not even grant the subjective sense that Christians have of their own history. Earlier Carl, the sometime Captain Kurtz of this blog advised Corrigan on substance abuse. Get off the bong yourself too man.

15 June 2013 at 01:09 

Earlier Carl, the sometime Captain Kurtz of this blog ...

That's the thing about Americans. We don't like euphemisms, and we don't hide behind convenient contradictions. People often don't like hard truths. They want the benefit of the ends but they would rather be shielded from participating in the means. Someone else can get his hands dirty, thanks. Those with delicate constitutions might required some smelling salt.

... advised Corrigan on substance abuse.

It was the most charitable option available to me. Recommending a unitary state that combines Hamas with the Israelis ... well ... that kind of thinking doesn't leave too many polite alternatives.


15 June 2013 at 02:03 
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew [Israel]. For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree [Israel]: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob [the Second Coming]: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! Ye worship ye know not what: we [Jesus and the Jews] know what we worship: for SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS.

Romans 11 and John 4

15 June 2013 at 10:16 
I suppose we would always need hard men, though these pathological elements too, would have to be restrained from over- enthusiasm.

For now of course, given the nature of Islam generally, a unitary state under present conditions would be terminal for the Israelis resulting in many tens of thousands of deaths, a repeat of what is happening in Syria across the border. It is possible though to imagine that if the Israelis were to attract seven or eight million people from the surrounding areas, Turkey, Africa, China and further afield, who appreciate freedom, and the rule of law, and modulate the tone of their society somewhat, they would be able to blunt any demographic challenges from the absorbed Arabs. The Arabs outside will have to get their act together sooner or later, within the next ten or fifteen years or they'll starve. Yemen, a country nobody knows anything about already has sixty million people. The Arabs may already have reached the limit of blaming all their problems on Jews, Christians, Shiites and monkeys. The Pavlovian dog that is the Arab Street may well be permanently numb with over-conditioning, entering the inverse phase. The Arabs in Israel then happily settle down to the normal routine of modern life, and peace reigns. I better put my pipe down now.

15 June 2013 at 13:31 
First the Satu then comes Sunday. Good to their promise. Gaza cleansed of. Jews. Christians next. Once Gaza had been cleansed, where is next?

15 June 2013 at 19:34 
Ivan @ 13.31, an interesting post but factually inaccurate. The CIA World Factbook gives the estimated population of Yemen as 25,408,288 precisely in July 2013. The beginning or end of the month is not specified.

15 June 2013 at 22:50 
bluedog, thank you for the correction.

16 June 2013 at 07:38




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