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[78.48s -> 91.50s] My training's in set design. I went to the Yale Drama School in set design to study with Ming Cho Lee. And I've actually only taken one course in costume design.
[91.98s -> 102.77s] The rest has been monkey see, monkey do. Yeah, this is the fun part. Because you never know if it's going to work.
[108.66s -> 122.99s] I'm not exactly sure when the switch happened from scenery to costumes, but I think it happened as simply as I couldn't get any jobs doing scenery when I moved to New York, and everyone needed some clothes. So I'll call William.
[122.99s -> 126.64s] He has something in a bag somewhere. So that's how it began.
[135.12s -> 146.93s] Nine was my first big musical, second musical on Broadway. It was like right out of the gate and I won this Tony Award. Thinking back on it, I don't know how that happened, but
[146.93s -> 160.66s] It did change my life and made me feel like, oh, I guess I'm doing this. I'm always afraid.
[161.46s -> 174.58s] of not being able to come up with an idea. And to counteract that fear of not being able to think of something, it's why I've developed this amazing sort of blitzkrieg.
[174.58s -> 187.60s] gathering of images because if you live in a cocoon like this cellar basement of mine osmosis it just sort of bombard you with the research and with the feeling with the energy and
[187.60s -> 200.72s] I think that helps ward off that fear of designer's block. And so far, so good. The designer's block is kept at bay at the moment. But it doesn't mean I don't have nightmares about it. Absolutely.
[209.04s -> 211.25s] You know, when I first started
[211.79s -> 224.59s] I took no prisoners. In fact, my agent, she used to get these little packages. It had dimes and a Valium in it. And it was, if you're having a panic attack, call me and take a Valium.
[224.62s -> 238.93s] This lasted through the years up through 25 cents, so it became quarters and two volume. I never took the volume because I can't even take aspirin and not be affected, but the mere confidence of having.
[238.93s -> 249.06s] the little packages with two quarters and two volumes in it just was comforting to me but it also acknowledged I was out of control. I
[249.06s -> 259.12s] didn't have an overview, I thought everything was life or death. And I'm going to tell you right now, that was the best way to begin. Kids starting out, it has to be life or death.
[271.98s -> 285.70s] I never say no to a project. I always say yes. And then I figure out how to make it happen. Because one door opens another, and theater is all about relationships. And I learned that the hard way. Because when I came into this business,
[285.70s -> 289.71s] I had a chip on my shoulder the size of Manhattan.
[291.06s -> 305.49s] Growing up in New York City in the 70s, you could see it as the best of times and the worst of times. The city was bankrupt, and I lived in the South Bronx, which is a lower-income neighborhood. But within the crazy...
[305.49s -> 314.56s] I was able to find beauty. I always was interested in what color people painted their apartments.
[314.56s -> 322.96s] Because in the Bronx, when a lot of the buildings were burnt down or abandoned, you can look into the windows and you can see the different colors.
[324.34s -> 336.34s] New York in the 70s, that was the birth of hip-hop. And it changed the music we heard, the fashions, and you can still see it in my aesthetic.
[336.34s -> 349.10s] Graffiti, it's pretty much in everything I do, whether it's text, because I love text. I am prone to use bright, vibrant colors. So my upbringing is always a part of me.
[366.77s -> 379.23s] who emailed me, just said, Project Runway is looking for designers and I think you should audition. But they weren't sure that I had the right fit for the show because I was a costume designer.
[379.23s -> 393.20s] And back when I was doing the show, costume designers were thought of as a gimmick. They really didn't see us as fashion designers. So I had to go back again and really prove to them that I was a fashion designer.
[412.21s -> 423.62s] I learned that I have very little patience for when things don't go my way. And I think TV just amplified that. But also I learned that I can put out good work.
[423.62s -> 429.58s] under extreme stressful situations and if i followed my instinct i could be successful
[438.61s -> 452.83s] Great designer I knew was Charles James. I moved to the Chelsea Hotel. He lived on the sixth floor. I lived on the fourth floor. I would send him notes saying, I'd love to meet you, this, and of course totally ignore all of them because he would get that all the time. And then...
[452.83s -> 465.66s] I was making a doll and I was having trouble with the bodice and something just occurred to me to write a note. Dear Mr. James, I'm having problems with this dress. Ten minutes later, he came to my apartment.
[465.66s -> 479.38s] And there was the doll, and he saw the doll, and he advised me. He thought I was going the right way. He said, too bad it was too small. He would love to see it life-size. I remember that's what he said, and I said, well, we're starting with the doll.
[482.74s -> 493.60s] Hello! How are you? Look where I am! The rooftop, yes! What I love about it was the light. When I create, I need light.
[493.60s -> 507.25s] So you can tell what colors things are. Exactly. And when I procrastinate, I can look at the sky. Exactly. What do you mean? I clean everything. I clean everything. Exactly. I was in fashion school. I was, I think, 15 to 16 maybe.
[507.25s -> 521.26s] And Nine, you had just done Nine. Oh my goodness. And that famous lace jumpsuit that Anita Morris wore. And I remember opening the newspaper and seeing that. I was like, whoa, what is that? And I don't know why.
[521.26s -> 535.65s] I was so attracted to it. It just changed at least my idea of what costume was. Because that was more a fashion piece. They hadn't done anything like that in theater before. And it got so much press. She was on David Letterman.
[535.65s -> 548.56s] And I stayed up late one night just to watch her. And I think it was by using that little ruffle at the ankle and at the cuff. That's what made it not just a leotard.
[548.56s -> 555.39s] It gave it the sense of fashion. Guess why I added it. Do you know? Why did you add that? Do you know why? No, I don't know. I'm fascinated by that story.
[555.39s -> 569.02s] because the ankles were small and I wanted the curve to stay curvy and not go pointy. So I gave it out a little flamenco energy to give it a little va-va-va-voom, then goes that, you know, and she...
[569.02s -> 582.86s] decided to go for it wow so it changed her career it did it was it changed all our careers oh my goodness well i'm glad i didn't realize that that this interest that interested you that's i think
[582.86s -> 595.52s] the power of theater. It transcends generations, color lines, economic boundaries. People are in the dark sharing a story.
[595.52s -> 606.40s] What's in this room? Oh, this room. Oh, you have to come see this. This is where, like, the actual work gets done. I have my brother... You can tell how tall you are. I'm telling you.
[606.40s -> 617.33s] Some of my favorite times when my actor is in the fitting room, that's when I get into their heads. And how does it start, say, a fitting? Say you start with a what? A mirror.
[617.33s -> 631.68s] A mirror and underwear. And underwear. That's it. That's it. Mirror and underwear. Oh, my goodness. Let's get everything where it needs to be, where you feel comfortable. And then I don't ask them, do you like something? My first question to an actor is...
[631.68s -> 644.96s] Tell me about the character. Who is she? Where did you go to school? What kind of music do you listen to? Are you a high-heeled girl? Which they all say yes, depending on what the role is. Right, right, right.
[644.96s -> 659.65s] What do you do when men want to wear... What? Waists. Waistline on men. Period. Versus contemporary. Well, I... Well... What did you do with Porgy and Bess with the waistline? Well, here's the thing.
[659.65s -> 669.26s] And for me, sometimes it's a little tricky because I come in with these modern waist, my pants are lower and my hips, and then I'm trying to teach them or get them to wear their pants.
[669.26s -> 679.90s] at their natural waste. And that's totally, completely different for young people today. But I just make them do it.
[679.90s -> 694.05s] And when they don't want to do it, then I put a pair of suspenders on to make sure. It stays at that. And then I stitch them. You stitch them. That's a trick. Because they'll drop it down. Right. I realize that men are fussier than women.
[694.05s -> 708.94s] Because we don't have a lot of different things to wear. We wear a pair of pants every day, a shirt or a t-shirt, or a jacket. That's what we're in every day. So that suit has to say everything.
[708.94s -> 714.06s] because they don't have five different changes. Also, men throughout history have really
[714.06s -> 728.40s] been peacocked themselves too. One longs for the 17th century and Louis XIV because then you can, it's peacock alley. It is a natural thing for men to have the plumage, all the birds, birds, all the animals.
[728.40s -> 735.34s] In nature, the men always have the, the males have the bright colors. Do you see it coming back, though, now with so much freedom, with the...
[735.34s -> 749.68s] With pop culture and the performers, do you see where men are being more experimental with color? Or is it just like performers and not real people? I wish that that were so. In fact, those skinny suits and the boys and the young gay boys and the young...
[749.68s -> 762.22s] straight, metrosexual boys. And I would love all that. I mean, you know, it's wishing. But wishing don't make it so. I haven't done a job where I can't look back and look at something you've done.
[762.22s -> 769.97s] Because I remember Annie Get Your Gun was so influential. Because I was working at Matera's at the time. And you did all that wonderful leather.
[769.97s -> 784.30s] All those chaps. But they weren't like normal chaps. These were like the most beautiful chaps. Sexy chaps. But just the craftsmanship. Willa, you know, is my hero. Oh, I know.
[784.30s -> 798.88s] got me started in the business by, I saw her work on PBS in the early 70s, late 60s, early 70s, and it just, I thought, someone can do that? That's a job? You can do that? I didn't know that that...
[798.88s -> 805.54s] level of art could be done with and she had done the sets and the costumes for this ballet.
[805.54s -> 816.58s] And it was in black and white on television. That's always the hardest thing. I know, and I just, it is hard. And I asked you about that once, about how do you do black and white and still keep it.
[816.58s -> 824.94s] dynamic and interesting for the audience without getting repetitive. And you gave me an amazing trick about the skin tones.
[824.94s -> 839.22s] how you bring the skin tones. You have to bring, it's not just black and white. It's not just black and white. You have to bring, because it has to, you have to soften it in. Permission to edge in. And of course, you know who did that so beautifully is Willa.
[839.22s -> 847.31s] She always painted skin tones into the leotards. Yes, and so you didn't know where the color was coming.
[847.31s -> 861.65s] because she wanted them to be basically naked. Yeah. Well, who doesn't? Exactly. And so she discovered that. That's the key. With Sally Ann Parsons. And we're going to go see Willa. Oh, cool. And hopefully she'll have, I don't know whether she...
[861.65s -> 872.10s] You know, she's also right at the edge of tomorrow. She's amazing, though. Cutting edge. You're my hero. Well, you're my hero. Come visit. Thank you for coming today. Oh, please. Whatever you want.
[872.10s -> 886.78s] I've been wearing this outfit for decades. White shirt, rep tie, navy blazer, khaki pants, black shoes. Now, there have been variations for some reason, deeply psychological things I have forgotten, but...
[886.78s -> 900.45s] A wee period during the 70s, I wore blue jeans. What was I thinking? The worst thing a costume designer can wear are interesting clothes. Nothing destroys confidence like...
[900.45s -> 912.34s] cleverly inventive clothes worn by your costume or wardrobe person because it means you are spending time thinking about yourself. You need to save all of your
[912.34s -> 919.73s] energy, and design essence for the work. I have Kendra Nebb's Chicago.
[919.73s -> 933.39s] running now in its 18th year. Sometimes the fabrics are no longer available so I have to choose other fabrics and actually I love this. I mean what a wonderful problem to have. Oh the costumes are falling apart.
[933.39s -> 942.96s] you hope the shows run forever. But when they don't, I try very hard to get the producers to give them to me.
[942.96s -> 950.56s] Gosh, I'm going through fabric stores and I find fabrics that I should have used in a play that ended two years ago, and I buy it.
[950.56s -> 962.94s] I buy the fabric. I have bins of fabric of shoulda, woulda, coulda bins that sit up there. And sometimes I reuse them. But usually I just collect them because for me it's completing.
[962.94s -> 974.22s] a process and I owe it to the memory of that production. It's sort of crazy, but I could be on a guest episode of Hoarders. This is my concept board for Cinderella.
[974.48s -> 985.34s] I always, at the end of one show, I have one board that is just for that show and has the essence of that show, and I leave it on it, especially if it's still running.
[985.34s -> 997.92s] I was trying to figure out, I wanted during the ball scene, the ballroom scene, you know, it's very aspirational. Who doesn't want to marry a prince? And I was trying to show my costume houses.
[997.92s -> 1006.75s] that I wanted to see through these dresses, like this. And I couldn't, I was trying to invent something, so I made this little doll.
[1006.75s -> 1019.38s] And you know what? It worked because I was able to take the little doll and of course everyone laughed very indulgently at me and they said, oh William and his dolls. But here we go and so all the ball gowns are like this.
[1020.98s -> 1033.44s] Bullets Over Broadway is a backstage musical and the story is basically no one wants to give any money except for the gangster who said oh I'll give you money for your show but my girlfriend has to have a big role in it.
[1033.44s -> 1041.94s] That's an old story. In fact, it still happens today. In fact, it's one of my shows right now. Anyway, because...
[1041.94s -> 1050.45s] We're overexposed to gangsters at the moment. I just am trying very hard to make my take on it different.
[1050.86s -> 1058.80s] I've lined them up like this because these are all the gangsters and here's the set and all this color is this is based on
[1058.86s -> 1071.55s] This art deco door. I like to turn upside down because then you're not reading it So the interesting thing to do which is very exciting for me is to try to keep that color very strict color scheme so you've got like
[1071.55s -> 1081.65s] all these gangsters on stage, but you want them all to be tied together in front of this. Well, there aren't enough colors in this. And then I found this.
[1081.68s -> 1094.93s] Wonderful bug picture. 1925. Which actually has little bits of green, little bits of blue, that sort of a peach. But anyway, that's the assignment. Because unlike a film, we see...
[1094.93s -> 1108.91s] All these people on stage, head to toe. I have to help the audience know where to look. In fact, often, on stage, I have the leading ladies understudy. Standing next to her. Well, guess what?
[1108.91s -> 1116.66s] I've got to, as I often tell her, I say, darling, I'm so terribly sorry, I have to bury you under a bushel.
[1125.20s -> 1136.69s] I still wake up in the morning so excited about what I'm doing. My favorite centerpiece of my life is in the fitting room.
[1139.47s -> 1154.45s] I'm often aware of the body language in a fitting. I can always tell that aha moment. It's very exciting because then they can see themselves being transformed. I often start with vintage underwear.
[1154.45s -> 1168.27s] even though no one will see it. It's like the inside of pocketbooks. I always fill pocketbooks with compacts and period lipstick and period handkerchiefs that help someone realize, this is where I am, this is what I'm doing.
[1177.68s -> 1190.85s] I was, I think I was six, maybe I was five or four, but I had this wonderful dog named Manteo, and she would follow me everywhere, you know, move when I moved and sit when I sat. I got a needle and thread.
[1190.85s -> 1201.58s] and I had the end of a pillowcase that was already hemmed. And I remember taking, I remember this, taking the needle and thread and going in and out all the way around.
[1201.58s -> 1215.47s] I think I ran out of thread or something, I remember, and I thought, oh, I have to get around there. And I pulled it and I invented pleating. And I put it on my dog and I tightened it more and it was a ruff.
[1215.47s -> 1223.25s] ruffled collar for my dog. I invented it. That was my first, my first costume.
[1241.23s -> 1252.82s] I love the news. JP Morgan's legal hurdles expected to multiply. Wow. That's all they need.
[1253.65s -> 1266.70s] Speedy trains transform China. Well, I would think so. Blackberry. Buyout offer raises questions. Army of questions.
[1267.12s -> 1280.08s] I can't believe this. I should try to clean this thing up. It's just awful. And here's a thing.
[1280.88s -> 1293.94s] And Julie Andrews. I designed her costumes for her in one of the shows that she was, I guess the last one she did.
[1295.44s -> 1310.03s] What's so funny is that I ran around and bought a lot of stuff, you know. And she picked what she liked. And when it was all over, she asked me what happened to the rest of them. She wanted to keep them.
[1327.44s -> 1341.55s] I knew it was you. Oh, you're dressed. I know. I'm just going to change. Oh, don't change. Never change.
[1341.74s -> 1356.18s] I haven't been here in a while. Huh? I haven't been here in a while. I know. Isn't this from the Rossignol? Uh-huh. You remember that. I remember. I didn't even remember. It's crazy. It's when the emperor, who is on his deathbed.
[1356.18s -> 1362.19s] and about to die and Rossignol sings and then he wakes up.
[1362.64s -> 1375.42s] And so he doesn't die. And it's in color, but when I saw it, when I saw it on PBS broadcast, it was in black and white. Watching that made me want to become a designer.
[1375.42s -> 1389.62s] I was in art history. I was going to write books about architecture. I know, I know. You are. You're an intellectual. Oh, see, see. But, well, I want to be everything. Later, because I didn't have a playbill, you know, it was on.
[1389.62s -> 1400.86s] So I found out that you would design the scenery and costumes and props. So you're the exact reason I wanted to do this for a living, this crazy thing we do. Uh-oh.
[1400.86s -> 1404.78s] So there, it's your fault. It's my fault.
[1405.20s -> 1419.34s] That's the best thing I've done. William, you're such an addition to our trade, our craft of whatever it is we do. It's a trade. It's a trade. It's a craft. No, no, it's an art.
[1419.34s -> 1427.50s] It's an art form. I always wanted to be an artist, so don't tell me I'm a tradesperson.
[1427.79s -> 1441.39s] You know, I never studied design. No? No, I didn't know it existed. I was an artist, and I was going to be an artist, and I got a job without my portfolio.
[1441.39s -> 1449.07s] at the May Company in LA and within two weeks I was doing their full page ads. I was just...
[1449.42s -> 1462.06s] a mad success, you know, and making all this money. Well, I thought it was a lot of money. I think it was $45 a week. And then Paramount called.
[1462.06s -> 1474.16s] Paramount offered me $75 a week. Oh my goodness. And I said, no, I'm doing what I want to do. And then I was telling this man sitting behind me at...
[1474.16s -> 1481.42s] And he said, you have to take it because not many designers get that offer. So I went.
[1482.00s -> 1494.45s] And then I thought, what am I doing here? You know, this isn't what I want to do. I'm hanging around sound stages doing nothing. And it's all a big factory and I'm unhappy.
[1494.45s -> 1505.17s] And so this woman, this saintly woman walked by me and she saw me loitering because I didn't know what I was doing there. I was just hanging around.
[1505.52s -> 1518.75s] Paramount. And she asked me to do some color samples for her for these sketches. And it was Kariska. Then she went to the front office of that.
[1518.75s -> 1525.01s] said, I want that girl to be my assistant. When I realized who she was.
[1525.42s -> 1534.74s] It wasn't just meeting designers, you know, Hollywood designers Not that great at least not as an artist you think of them as
[1537.97s -> 1551.66s] tradespeople or something. No, no. But through her, I met all these wonderful artists that she knew. Who were some of the artists that you met with Madame Kerenska?
[1551.66s -> 1560.82s] He brought her to Paramount. Oh, I see. To do his movie, Lady in the Dark, Frenchman's Creek.
[1560.91s -> 1567.60s] So I would go visit him at MGM and wait for him and he'd be busy or something.
[1568.24s -> 1580.78s] And then he'd come up and he said to me, you know who you were sitting next to? And I said, no. He said, Marlon Dietrich. I said, I'm sitting next to Dietrich? The whole time I didn't even look at her?
[1580.78s -> 1589.55s] If I didn't look at her, I didn't recognize her. It's so funny. There's Balanchine. I'm sitting right next to him.
[1590.64s -> 1600.69s] Which is Raoul? That's Raoul back here, right next to Kerenska. That's Raoul's boyfriend.
[1600.94s -> 1614.98s] I tell you, it was an extraordinary education. If I wanted to be a designer, I couldn't have picked the two most important people in costumes and sets than Kariska and Ralph and Dubois.
[1614.98s -> 1625.62s] And where does Balanchine fit into this? Well, he was married to an actress. So he was a stage door Johnny or was he choreographing the movie?
[1625.81s -> 1639.34s] He was a stage door job. He had an eye for girls. These are ballets that I did.
[1640.72s -> 1650.19s] And you know who he is? Baryshnikov. He was the most beautiful dancer.
[1651.25s -> 1656.59s] Where should I put this? Out in the hole. Out in the hole, okay.
[1665.84s -> 1678.99s] It's fun to look at all these paints. I've never seen you do this. Oh, look on the other side. This is a ballet. This is the bottom of a tutu.
[1679.28s -> 1691.12s] What was that? Where's the other part? Something that wasn't worth doing. I bet you that Sotheby's would be worth something.
[1696.75s -> 1700.85s] You're involved in dance from the very beginning.
[1701.17s -> 1715.04s] You see the choreographer talks to you about an idea then he or she is working on expressing that idea in movement and You're involved from that moment on
[1715.04s -> 1725.97s] and trying to create the idea through dance. And so I think your involvement is deeper.
[1726.54s -> 1740.08s] Plays, of course, can do that too, but they're pretty much, well, so is dance done for an audience, but you're not aware of that as much.
[1741.42s -> 1755.89s] you're involved with the idea of what the dance is about. I remember doing a play and having a fitting with two women.
[1756.98s -> 1769.36s] And they had been talking about me and how little I, you know, she knows and they were really terribly superior.
[1769.36s -> 1781.26s] Oh God, what am I going to do? So I went in and a friend of mine came up at the fitting and she said, oh, did you read what...
[1781.55s -> 1794.77s] Jonathan Miller wrote about you in the New York Times. And I said, no, I haven't had a chance to. So I found it. It was a wonderful article. And those two bitches.
[1794.77s -> 1809.74s] who were in the play naturally saw it because he was their director as well as mine. And so I didn't have to defend myself at all. There was in print.
[1816.18s -> 1825.26s] It's always early in your life you remember those things because you're so raw.
[1826.51s -> 1839.50s] and emotional about what you're doing because you're so vulnerable when you're a young designer. You know, you don't know if you're so lucky to get the job and then to not.
[1840.05s -> 1851.73s] And to shortchange the director or whoever it is, it's terrible. You never get over that. They have to go through it.
[1852.27s -> 1859.95s] harden themselves. It prepares you for your next director, your next show.
[1860.69s -> 1871.15s] It toughens you, but also you learn from these things.
[1879.60s -> 1893.07s] I always say three things. When you're starting out, you're a puppy dog. You're a golden retriever. You are licking with your tongue. You're so excited, you're jumping up, knocking people over. Then, the second...
[1893.07s -> 1899.57s] moment in life. Shakespeare had seven ages of man. I have three. The second one is knowledge.
[1899.89s -> 1912.66s] You learn, you understand, you have knowledge, you make discerning choices, and you're a professional. The third and final stage is wisdom.
[1913.39s -> 1926.45s] And wisdom has the effect of you sit in your comfortable chair, you have your single malt scotch right at your hand, and you go, you know, maybe we just don't do that.
[1927.38s -> 1931.76s] I just hope wisdom doesn't take over.