V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC
<h1 id="title">Elliquiy Role Playing Forums</h1>
		<h2 id="linktree">Play-By-Post: Extreme =&gt; Extreme Small Groups =&gt; Topic started by: Elven Sex Goddess on 26-01-2009, 06:12:53</h2>
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			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>26-01-2009, 06:12:53</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				For posting questions,&nbsp; suggestions, shooting the bull.&nbsp; Looking for a a scene or posting an absence.&nbsp; Is all incorporated here.&nbsp; 
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>26-01-2009, 09:46:04</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Rules updated;
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>26-01-2009, 18:50:34</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Consider the proverbial bull shot.&nbsp; Posting from work again.... nothing better to while waiting for antique computers to load the Windows Update page.&nbsp; ::)<br><br><br>Edit:&nbsp; On a more important note...or well game related note, merits and some points re-arranged to accommodate implemented house rules.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>26-01-2009, 20:26:21</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I have my first two characters posted one good and well a dark and rather sinister sister soul in the city - I wanted at least one bad girl and we are allowed one Independent so I did a Setite well higher up than a newbie. Is around a shorter time than my other character but has a clan so could rise to status faster and well bringing in innocent mortals to be used and abused, making Dhamfir (not anymore) and even some lower level Kindred to the Setite cause is useful. And fun. My two character likely won't interact much a streetwise and cagey Ancilla of a powerful sect can be a tough target for her after all. But Caitiff and Neonates less savey are another story. <br>&nbsp;;)<br><br>EDIT: I assume the ST will take into account the character background and use common sense with Age frankly few very ancient vampires are active in city politics or even care at some point about such things. I wisely took Age 1 for my two Ancilla it made sense and all. Allowing a bit of extra discipline power in there without going overboard. I will not be running any Elders at this time.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>26-01-2009, 21:33:10</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				It is going to be on case by case approval.&nbsp; I also try to build in a safe guard.&nbsp; Thus the cost rise in humanity.&nbsp; The continued rounding bell curve of award of freebies.&nbsp; <br><br>So as for example a 6th gen age 8 (3000 years old)&nbsp; that is an award of 110 freebies.&nbsp; However, if say humanity is at 6 the -8 is down -2.&nbsp; So to buy back to 8 it costs 80 pts just to get it back to 6.&nbsp; So in truth all your getting is +30 xp.&nbsp; &nbsp;As no humanity or paths below 5 allowed at creation.&nbsp; <br><br>Finally only 2 more slots for Kindred allowed for over a 1000 years in age&nbsp; within the Camarilla within chronicle<br><br>1 slot for an elder independent of that age.&nbsp; &nbsp;
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 00:49:23</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Ok then I have done my Elder I did promise to run a Primogen member so figured I can't go back on my word. And it might be fun.<br>&nbsp;;D
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Aragem</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 02:52:05</strong>
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			<dd class="postbody">
				Ack!&nbsp; Got to finish up Trevor's Bro sheets!
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 06:52:47</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Unless there are any other last minute rule updates, I should have gone through and made any necessary changes.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 07:20:44</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<strong>Need volunteer to play a&nbsp; special&nbsp; male dhampir in the chronicle.&nbsp; &nbsp;The dhampir will be 7th gen in respective generation.&nbsp; And 50 freebies for creation.&nbsp; &nbsp;Anyone interested,&nbsp; send me a pm.&nbsp; </strong>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 08:34:29</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I really wasn't planning on taking up more than one character at the present, but any more particulars that you would be willing to release about said request?
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 18:25:30</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I'm still running a bit behind from last week (knocked out for two days, medical stuff), so I'll be up to posting or whatnot sometime this evening, probably.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 19:04:21</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1090495#msg1090495">Quote from: Asherah on 26-01-2009, 21:33:10</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">It is going to be on case by case approval.&nbsp; I also try to build in a safe guard.&nbsp; Thus the cost rise in humanity.&nbsp; The continued rounding bell curve of award of freebies.&nbsp; <br><br>So as for example a 6th gen age 8 (3000 years old)&nbsp; that is an award of 110 freebies.&nbsp; However, if say humanity is at 6 the -8 is down -2.&nbsp; So to buy back to 8 it costs 80 pts just to get it back to 6.&nbsp; So in truth all your getting is +30 xp.&nbsp; &nbsp;As no humanity or paths below 5 allowed at creation.&nbsp; <br><br>Finally only 2 more slots for Kindred allowed for over a 1000 years in age&nbsp; within the Camarilla within chronicle<br><br>1 slot for an elder independent of that age.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>I don't mind it helps Ancillas, younger Elders and older Neonates. But youngsters can be fun to no one expects a wet behind the ears Neonate to do very much save stay out of trouble. <br>&nbsp;;)
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 19:32:58</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Honestly I think 10 pts per dot is a bit steep, it impacts the "younger Elders" a tad too much.&nbsp; In my personal opinion 5 pts per dot would've been more reasonable, the older Elders would get a larger freebie bonus; but you could always scale the humanity cost.&nbsp; Say Age 1-3 5 pts, 4-5 7 pts, 6+ 10 pts per dot of humanity or something along those lines.<br><br>On another more important note, as I did state I was going to take up the role of Tremere Primogen...do I need to re-arrange points again to find an extra 7 pts to take the merit: Primogen (pg 77 Guide to the Camarilla)?<br><br><br>Edit: And um.... did I just read the rules thread correctly?<br><br>Elder Character Creation:<br>Attributes; 10-7-5<br>Abilities 20-12-8<br>10 disciplines<br>7 virtues<br>15 backgrounds<br>50 freebies<br>Starting Generation: 11th&nbsp; And generation must be purchased if want lowered it is not free.<br><br><br>Particularly regarding the line about the 50 freebies to start.... original posting was 20 (which I thought was sort of odd, giving Ancillas more, although Elders did start with more points to distribute before using freebies...so I didn't say anything).&nbsp; So 20 or 50?&nbsp; And if it's 50, I retract my statement about 10 pts per dot of Humanity being too harsh for purchasing the Age background.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 19:44:39</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Oops I kind of have to do that for my Elder as well.<br><br>As for the points my Elder took Age and keep all her extra points her Humanity was 8 and dropped to 5, the game minimum. She is a rather inhuman bitch anyway, its not likely it would be very high anyway. <br>&nbsp;;D<br><br><br><br>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 19:52:11</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1092711#msg1092711">Quote from: sleepingferret on 27-01-2009, 19:32:58</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Honestly I think 10 pts per dot is a bit steep, it impacts the "younger Elders" a tad too much.&nbsp; In my personal opinion 5 pts per dot would've been more reasonable, the older Elders would get a larger freebie bonus; but you could always scale the humanity cost.&nbsp; Say Age 1-3 5 pts, 4-5 7 pts, 6+ 10 pts per dot of humanity or something along those lines.<br><br>On another more important note, as I did state I was going to take up the role of Tremere Primogen...do I need to re-arrange points again to find an extra 7 pts to take the merit: Primogen (pg 77 Guide to the Camarilla)?<br><br><br></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>To answer the first part. &nbsp;No, it will remain at ten points across the board. &nbsp; Reason why, for one dot you get +30 freebies only a -1 Humanity. &nbsp;And if you have a starting humanity of 7 it drops it down to 6. &nbsp; No need to buy it back up. &nbsp;Unless you want a higher humanity. &nbsp;Since it is not below the minimum of 5. &nbsp; So then how does it hurt younger elders. &nbsp; So not adjusting a scaling system just to tweak out a few more points. &nbsp;<br><br>Now to your second query. &nbsp;No do not need the primogen &nbsp;merit. &nbsp;Thou the appropriate status should be purchased. &nbsp; &nbsp;As the whole purpose of the character is to fill the role at start of chronicle.&nbsp; &nbsp;For a successful chronicle the game evolves.&nbsp; So it would be best to think of the character as your npc to use.&nbsp; Not as a pc in terms of explanation. <br><br>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 19:56:59</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Fair enough, save 7 pts on a merit that I always felt was represented by Status and storyline anyways.<br><br>What about the character creation? 20 or 50 freebies?&nbsp; As mentioned when the game was first being discussed and some character concepts being formulated I believe somewhere in that thread it was stated as 20.&nbsp; Your current rules thread says 50 though, misprint or updated and correct information?
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 20:00:21</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1092743#msg1092743">Quote from: RubySlippers on 27-01-2009, 19:44:39</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Oops I kind of have to do that for my Elder as well.<br><br>As for the points my Elder took Age and keep all her extra points her Humanity was 8 and dropped to 5, the game minimum. She is a rather inhuman bitch anyway, its not likely it would be very high anyway. <br>&nbsp;;D<br></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Brujah inhuman?&nbsp; Never, rebels maybe... now the Gangrel on the other hand... I'm going to plead the 5th.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 20:05:20</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I think Neonates 15 FP, Elders 20 FP and Ancilla 50 FP (but the last are close to Neonates as per basic builds, Elders get amply more points and benefits up front). You can tell even with Age my Ancilla characters are not near any Elder but are better than a Neonate.<br><br>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 20:09:08</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				No 50 is not a misprint. &nbsp; That is correct, I changed it when created the boards for the game.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 20:11:53</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				*bows* Point re-assignment/assessment will be done/re-done shortly then.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>27-01-2009, 23:09:24</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I had to do it a vampire who is a gamer that invented the vampire rpg that hit the market hot. (giggle)<br><br>Game before the embrace and not at all related to the real Kindred community but well, might have some of the thematic elements.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>sleepingferret</strong> on <strong>28-01-2009, 02:30:53</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1093192#msg1093192">Quote from: RubySlippers on 27-01-2009, 23:09:24</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">I had to do it a vampire who is a gamer that invented the vampire rpg that hit the market hot. (giggle)<br><br>Game before the embrace and not at all related to the real Kindred community but well, might have some of the thematic elements.<br></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Lol...nice, nice.&nbsp; Poor gamers, just have no idea what they're getting into do they?
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>28-01-2009, 15:45:49</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Its going to be an occassional character to run since ,well, gaming is not a campaign focus as an in-game thing. And face it a wheelchair bound vampire is not much of a threat to anyone that could ne a good thing. But she may pop up at the Elysium or if a game convention is in the city. Or if another character ends up at her gaming store.<br><br>But according to the Clanbook Toreador that work to just perfect their art are more respected, and game playing can be a legitimate area of focus. Chess is I'm sure and face it modern gaming can be far more challenging. <br><br>It might be a blast play her in-game rpg Eternal Blood in a vampire game for real, players who play vapires playing a game pretending to be vampires.<br>&nbsp;:D
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>28-01-2009, 21:58:11</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Rules update;&nbsp; &nbsp;New chronicle only discipline.&nbsp; &nbsp;Courtesy of RubySlippers, has been added to the rules thread.&nbsp; &nbsp;
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>29-01-2009, 00:26:12</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I PM'd the Storyteller she had NO RIGHT to post MY characters discipline for general use my character was the creator and she has the right to share the knowledge to others- and that will not be free! <br><br>She is a Caitiff no one else is that is one benefot of her "clanless" status developing new powers. Now she is ruining my special thing I had to trade, I DEMAND it be there but only my Caitiff can share the knowledge, And you want it be ready to fork over big favors and other things to learn it. <br><br>I never, ever, said it was for general use its a utter violation of my right as a player to do this!
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>29-01-2009, 00:44:48</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I'm sorry everyone I saw what she did and was really hurt, I spent alot of time working on that and now its out there and unless she changes it I can't now trade the knowledge in the game of that discipline for lots of boons and gifts to even get her talking about teaching it. I expected once word got out at least some local Toreador and Elders from other cities coming to see about learning it from my character. Normal for a new power so, pleasant, to use. <br><br>So please fix it, this has me even rethinking playing this game it really upset me and I feel like you abused my trust just posting this.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>29-01-2009, 00:45:43</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				No offense Ruby, but:<br><br>Rule number one of gaming: Anything a PC can do, an NPC can do. &nbsp;<br><br>Rule number two: The GM/ST is always right.<br>_________________________________________________<br><br>Moving into non-"rule" related response, a few points:<br><br>1) Making the, non-clan and presumably rare, new discipline available to starting PCs doesn't seem to be taking away your Caitiff's ability to trade it for favors or whatnot. &nbsp;Certainly not in such a way as to call for that kind of response.<br><br>2) Last I looked, Asherah was the one who stepped up to the plate and offered to ST/GM this group. &nbsp;Therefore, she gets to make the rules and decisions of this nature. &nbsp;That goes with the job description. &nbsp;She has the right to do whatever she wants with the rules, the setting, etc. &nbsp;If there are issues, we as players have the right to <em>respectfully</em> disagree or question the decision(s), not to demand things. &nbsp;And we also have the right to leave if we're not happy with her decisions. &nbsp;Those are really the only "rights" that players have.<br><br>(Revised to remove a point that was made from faulty memory, changed after being looked up)
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>29-01-2009, 01:13:54</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Caitiff can make up disciplines far easier than any other vampire sort in the game as far as I'm concerned and since I sent it in and I think worded it that SHE created it after seeing Hammer films (face it a big factor in Caitiff learning disciplines is what they THINK they can do) she though a primal physical discipline would be fun. Sort of a kindred specific application of the vampires beast to aid in hunting and for fun. So being a Caitiff and likely already having the thing kind of started like the first dot in the 1960's and 1970's went these are interesting ideas and made it. Caitiff make disciplines all the time its just something they do. If I saw a Tremere use magic and thought that telekinesis thing is cool ,and didn't know better, as a&nbsp; Caitiff I might make up a Telekinesis discipline like Movement of the Mind that is not magical. <br><br>Its the one real edge they have that lack of a clan "imprint" is in its own way a strength. <br><br>And I will add to the ST I did note in an earlier PM for my Ancilla I was going to do a new discipline for HER to know, that would pretty much rule out she would be sharing it with every vampire that came along. And if she did what are the odds of it spreading hither and yon in a few decades. Its not like every kindred can even learn it and those that can not all would benefit. So its unlikely any others in the city would have even heard of it much more have learned it. 
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>29-01-2009, 02:37:32</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1096180#msg1096180">Quote from: RubySlippers on 29-01-2009, 01:13:54</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Caitiff can make up disciplines far easier than any other vampire sort in the game as far as I'm concerned</blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Unfortunately, that doesn't really matter, since it's the ST's call.<br><br>Personally, I'd just be glad she allowed a homebrew discipline.&nbsp; In her shoes, and I've STed WoD many times, I probably wouldn't have allowed homebrew disciplines.&nbsp; Or dhampirs for that matter.&nbsp; Fortunately, neither decision was my call.&nbsp; *shrug*
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>29-01-2009, 03:40:05</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Asherah can do what she wants, and that discipline was my creation. So she can use it as she wishes I'll back off. And I will be running one non-political character, for now, one. I removed all my characters from the list and will be working on my new one. 
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>30-01-2009, 21:31:30</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				In character threads are up. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle IC|General<br>http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=29183.0 (http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=29183.0)<br><br>San Antonio by Night Chronicle&nbsp; IC|Elysium<br>http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=29185.0 (http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=29185.0)
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>31-01-2009, 23:33:41</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Just out of curiosity, how is "Custodian" as a Nature different from "Architect"?&nbsp; Reading the description, "Architect" is the first thing that popped into my head, and the descriptions are pretty similar, IMO.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>01-02-2009, 01:18:06</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Architechs strive to build and establish something new or biuld on what is there.<br><br>The Custodian feels a moral or at least practical duty to use their advantages to make their community stronger, without expecting anything in return. The basic with great power and advantage comes duty to oneself and others to make the world better, in this case also the community of Kindred included.<br><br>Oh and my post is to tie my character into another character I just figured start now and she can get in as soon as they are ready.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>01-02-2009, 02:57:44</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Hmm . . . they still sound virtually identical:<br><br>"You build a better future"<br><br>"She is truly happy only when creating something of lasting value for others.&nbsp; People will always need things, and the Architect strives to provide at least one necessity."<br><br>"Regain a point of Willpower whenever you establish something of importance or lasting value."<br><br>Sounds, to me, like making the world a better place.&nbsp; :)
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>01-02-2009, 03:21:10</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				One could argue a Bon Vivant and a Celebrant are the same as well.<br><br>Its how they earn willpower and attitude. An Architect still builds something of lasting valure. The Custodian aids others by sacrificing some of their own happiness sometimes for the greater good to keep what they care for ,the world and society they live in, stable and strong.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>01-02-2009, 05:07:34</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote">Quote</div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">One could argue a Bon Vivant and a Celebrant are the same as well.</blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Not really.&nbsp; They're polar opposites.&nbsp; The Bon Vivant is a nihilist (life has no meaning) at best, a sollipsist (other people/the world aren't real) at worst.&nbsp; A Celebrant is joyfully devoted to a particular cause (thus, life has meaning/purpose).&nbsp; <br><br>The point could make sense if Celebrant and Fanatic are the analogy, as the one works for the joy of it and the other works out of a sense of duty (sorry for harping on that, but I teach argumentation and can't stand false analogies ;) ).
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>01-02-2009, 05:39:52</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Well we will keep this simple the Architect BUILDS ,something, but constructs what is new to be a legacy.<br><br>The Custodian would use any means the established status quo, innovation though when needed, to end up with their duty which is to leave the world a better place to be for their existance. Their duty is to use what they have to help their community and with no regard for benefits or how that is done.<br><br>Say there was a need for a homeless project. The Architect would likley build a new charity. A Custodian would fun likely existing services to serve them since having established means and a track record it would be likely faster. If none existed then they would opt for the former. The ends not the means matter and doing it efficiently for the Custodian.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 02:27:12</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I have been busy looking over characters.&nbsp; Thus it has slowed my involvement.&nbsp; &nbsp;What I post is not anyway meant as offense.&nbsp; &nbsp;Instead I am posting here, for simple reasons do not have to correct the same mistakes over and over.<br><br><br>SleepingFerret -Tremere Primogen&nbsp; Lance VanZant.&nbsp; &nbsp;Denied until reworked.<br><br><br>First he does no have access to any out of reach hardware.&nbsp; Regardless of how much resources you have put down.&nbsp; You have nothing that allows you to even sniff out such items.&nbsp; Contacts a ATF agent and the DA does not gain you such.&nbsp; Contacts are limited, general information can be gleamed.&nbsp; Not in depth, that would fall in the line of an Ally.&nbsp; But more then that, you need influences.&nbsp; I see nothing in influences.&nbsp; You have companies that don't even have the proper permits or contacts to even construct weapons.&nbsp; When I say contacts, once again harking back to influences.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br><br>This is not an elder, this is a pumped up ancilla&nbsp; combat monster.&nbsp; &nbsp;You don't even come close to being a primogen.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;And the amount of rituals taken is silly.&nbsp; &nbsp;Considering the writeup, the age of your character.&nbsp; This is min maxing at its best.&nbsp; This is not even close to be a Tremere.&nbsp; Or understanding of an elder.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br><br>_________<br><br>Vandren - John Sifridus Lederer&nbsp; &nbsp; What do the influences cover<br><br>Alright what influences does he have in what.&nbsp; Transportation,&nbsp; Law enforcement,&nbsp; underworld.&nbsp; Influence is not a blanket cover everything.&nbsp; &nbsp;Follow RubySlippers lead, in how she designated her influences.<br><br>_______<br><br>Playfulchick76 -&nbsp; Abigail Sinclair&nbsp; imcomplete character.&nbsp; &nbsp;No assigning of points for attributes, heck the whole thing needs to be worked.&nbsp; &nbsp;If having a problem hun, give me a pm.&nbsp; I can assist you.&nbsp; <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 03:56:55</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1109189#msg1109189">Quote from: Asherah on 03-02-2009, 02:27:12</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">Vandren - John Sifridus Lederer&nbsp; &nbsp; What do the influences cover<br><br>Alright what influences does he have in what.&nbsp; Transportation,&nbsp; Law enforcement,&nbsp; underworld.&nbsp; Influence is not a blanket cover everything.</blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>I hadn't specified outside the "Expanded Background" section because our PM conversation re: Influence (inc. how the it was actually going to work) was unclear, so I'd been waiting on that.&nbsp; However, the relevant area has been edited.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 05:17:23</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1109189#msg1109189">Quote from: Asherah on 03-02-2009, 02:27:12</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">I have been busy looking over characters.&nbsp; Thus it has slowed my involvement.&nbsp; &nbsp;What I post is not anyway meant as offense.&nbsp; &nbsp;Instead I am posting here, for simple reasons do not have to correct the same mistakes over and over.<br><br><br>SleepingFerret -Tremere Primogen&nbsp; Lance VanZant.&nbsp; &nbsp;Denied until reworked.<br><br><br>First he does no have access to any out of reach hardware.&nbsp; Regardless of how much resources you have put down.&nbsp; You have nothing that allows you to even sniff out such items.&nbsp; Contacts a ATF agent and the DA does not gain you such.&nbsp; Contacts are limited, general information can be gleamed.&nbsp; Not in depth, that would fall in the line of an Ally.&nbsp; But more then that, you need influences.&nbsp; I see nothing in influences.&nbsp; You have companies that don't even have the proper permits or contacts to even construct weapons.&nbsp; When I say contacts, once again harking back to influences.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br><br>This is not an elder, this is a pumped up ancilla&nbsp; combat monster.&nbsp; &nbsp;You don't even come close to being a primogen.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;And the amount of rituals taken is silly.&nbsp; &nbsp;Considering the writeup, the age of your character.&nbsp; This is min maxing at its best.&nbsp; This is not even close to be a Tremere.&nbsp; Or understanding of an elder.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br><br>_________<br><br>Vandren - John Sifridus Lederer&nbsp; &nbsp; What do the influences cover<br><br>Alright what influences does he have in what.&nbsp; Transportation,&nbsp; Law enforcement,&nbsp; underworld.&nbsp; Influence is not a blanket cover everything.&nbsp; &nbsp;Follow RubySlippers lead, in how she designated her influences.<br><br>_______<br><br>Playfulchick76 -&nbsp; Abigail Sinclair&nbsp; imcomplete character.&nbsp; &nbsp;No assigning of points for attributes, heck the whole thing needs to be worked.&nbsp; &nbsp;If having a problem hun, give me a pm.&nbsp; I can assist you.&nbsp; <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Playfulchick got some help from me since the sheet is a start, with her background I recommeneded some points here and there and gave her some ideas for merits. And sent her a easy to use ,I hope, character creation system cheat sheet.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Aragem</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 05:35:05</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Twilight's Kiss has a special back room called the Red Room, of which only allows entrance to Kindred and blood dolls.&nbsp; Kindred, as long as they behave, can come in, conduct business, have some entertainment, and enjoy the blood of upperclass visitors of Twilight's Kiss.&nbsp; Of course, only the upper crust of local Camarilla can gain entrance.&nbsp; <br><br>EDIT:&nbsp; Also, should I open a seperate thread for Twilight's Kiss?&nbsp; I can set it up with pics and such.&nbsp; Just say the word.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 07:05:43</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I agree on the Tremere he should have far more mystical power and rituals, after all most Tremere use Gargoyles and ghouls to defend themselves backed up by Camarilla membership. Its a basic theory other clans are more expendable like the Brujah for such crash actions like fighting. And arms dealing would likely bring in way to much government nosing around Kindred affairs especially weapons development at that level. Might I suggest a support role in arms manufacturing making a case for missle is often outsourced and would not bring nearly as much scrutiny by the government - lets say manufacturing parts and components. Than a plant assembling or developing said weapons which would have agencies of the government really involved.<br><br>Its a good industry to be in but the role would have to be less ,um, security touchy. The last thing we need is the NSA snooping around the city.<br>&nbsp;;)<br><br>But the Tremere do have their hands in many pots so they could have business ties and resources, it makes sense to a degree. Especially if you run the operations locally created obs which would help with political based ties to the city. And maybe have a active PAC ties to boot.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 07:43:46</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I did not even touch on the fact he has no clan status.&nbsp; Especially in a clan with rigid hierarchy.&nbsp; &nbsp;Let along his first obligation is to the clan through the blood bond.&nbsp; &nbsp;Second his concept does not fit the traditional choice of the Tremere.&nbsp; However, that does not preclude. Because they will embrace for need.&nbsp; Though hardly think the power structure of pyramid scheme.&nbsp; Would allow to keep such wealth.&nbsp; And I haven't even hit on the generation yet.&nbsp; I have repeated stated that if wanted to post an elder.&nbsp; I expected a tie in to canon characters.&nbsp; It is easy to hunt up genealogies online on the game.&nbsp; &nbsp;Tie in your character at some point.&nbsp; &nbsp;Especially in the realm of the Tremere.&nbsp; This is just about as paramount as say the Ventrue.&nbsp; &nbsp; The char just needs to be reworked from top to bottom. 
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 07:59:55</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Nobody says he can't run a fighting Elder I'm sure they have Eldritch Knights in the clan sort of thing a Tremere that uses magic and has martial training might be assigned to the city since the Sabbat and the like are at the gates. Ventrue I'm sure have warlords of their own that put themselves out their to defend their clan. It just has to be in my mind more, balanced, in approach stronger in magic and less combat oriented but not shabby. But I can see him having a gun enchanted with arcane silver rounds or having a blood magic forged sword and getting busy with them when not using magic. In fact the clan should have such mages a combat arm to call in just in case force is needed. By the description it would fit for this Chantary his character is overseeing.<br><br>As for the wealth the Tremere would have personal wealth I'm sure but big assets are likely handed to Tremere to manage, on a case by case basis. As I see it like the Prince hands out domains for an Elder or Neonate to manage and can take away if they fail to do so wisely, the same here for the Tremere overall.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 08:16:46</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				First, your missing the point all together.&nbsp; The Tremere&nbsp; are not going to allow a rogue outside of the pyramid structure of the clan.&nbsp; &nbsp;Elevated him to Lord or let along Regent status.&nbsp; &nbsp;How anal they are,&nbsp; about this.&nbsp; Can be testified by the end of the Sabbath Tremere. <br>So I repeat all it looks to me is a min maxing to create a combat monster.&nbsp; Give the cheese all of a ridiculously amount of&nbsp; resources.&nbsp; To have built in to claim can get this that and that.&nbsp; &nbsp;
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Aragem</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 14:31:56</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote">Quote</div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">"The pyramid thus promotes collaboration, subtly culls those who refuse who refuse to work within the structure of the clan and provide clear lines of authority for those who latch onto it fanatically."</blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>That's directly from the Clan Book:&nbsp; Tremere page 25, paragraph 3.&nbsp; <br><br>The Tremere Elders would have had him killed him as soon as he started showing signs of not going along with the system.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 14:39:49</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				A few points:<br><br>1) I'll disagree on the "Tremere have to be/should be mystical" comment.&nbsp; First by pointing to the clanbook (Explorer concept has no Thaum, nor does the Politico concept; both are pretty practically minded).&nbsp; Second by bringing up an old Tremere primogen I used to play who never bothered with Thaum and mystical stuff.&nbsp; He was a completely practical politico with nearly all of his disciplines focused in Dominate, a little in Auspex, and a ton of points in various Influences (in fact, his network of contacts, allies, influences, and such was larger and more far reaching than that of the Nossie primogen).<br><br>2) Regarding "not going along with the system", there are various ways to do this.&nbsp; The wrong way (which I agree the character in question is probably following) gets a Tremere neonate killed.&nbsp; The right way either a) goes unnoticed or b) makes one valuable enough to the clan that they overlook it.&nbsp; But that takes subtlety and lots of it.&nbsp; :)
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 16:45:30</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1110302#msg1110302">Quote from: Vandren on 03-02-2009, 14:39:49</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">A few points:<br><br>1) I'll disagree on the "Tremere have to be/should be mystical" comment.&nbsp; First by pointing to the clanbook (Explorer concept has no Thaum, nor does the Politico concept; both are pretty practically minded).&nbsp; Second by bringing up an old Tremere primogen I used to play who never bothered with Thaum and mystical stuff.&nbsp; He was a completely practical politico with nearly all of his disciplines focused in Dominate, a little in Auspex, and a ton of points in various Influences (in fact, his network of contacts, allies, influences, and such was larger and more far reaching than that of the Nossie primogen).<br><br>2) Regarding "not going along with the system", there are various ways to do this.&nbsp; The wrong way (which I agree the character in question is probably following) gets a Tremere neonate killed.&nbsp; The right way either a) goes unnoticed or b) makes one valuable enough to the clan that they overlook it.&nbsp; But that takes subtlety and lots of it.&nbsp; :)<br></blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Ok I have to support him on this to a degree the Tremere have all kinds. I ran an Ancilla once with Magic Resistance and never learned Thuamatury but was a Witch-Hunter he went after enemy Thaumaturgists and Mages, and protected the Clan in her own way. I took the Additional Discipline Merit to add Fortitude. And was respected in the clan just was limited as to where she could go she eventually founded an in Chronicle Order of Tremere knights dedicated to defending the Clan and actually took only Magic Resistant mortals. So did have a place.<br><br>In his case the character might not like Thaumaturgy and focused on out of clan disciplines and honing his social skills and influences, but he would still have to serve the Clan and would be expected to know Thaumaturgy to some degree. But I would then suggest lots of abilities to be a manipulative and cunning bastard - someopne who plays the Tremere System like a fine musician plays the violin. After all there are Tremere Anarchs so not all may serve the clan the same unless fully blood bound he might serve the good of the clan being a independent thinker.<br><br>But the assets and connections he has would pose a problem as I pointed out if 9/11 happens the security sweep would endanger the Masquerade in a big way so making advanced weapons is likely not something the clan would accept. But say owning enough stock IN selected companies to sway the vote a bit is different there are other ways to control that are far more subtle and keeps the clans hands clean.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 16:48:55</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				<div class="quoteheader"><div class="topslice_quote"><a href="https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=28832.msg1110435#msg1110435">Quote from: RubySlippers on 03-02-2009, 16:45:30</a></div></div><blockquote class="bbc_standard_quote">But the assets and connections he has would pose a problem as I pointed out if 9/11 happens the security sweep would endanger the Masquerade in a big way so making advanced weapons is likely not something the clan would accept. But say owning enough stock IN selected companies to sway the vote a bit is different there are other ways to control that are far more subtle and keeps the clans hands clean.</blockquote><div class="quotefooter"><div class="botslice_quote"></div></div><br>Exactly.&nbsp; :)<br>_____________________________________<br><br>The chronicle I referred to below also had an interesting situation in which the Tremere clan named a Regent for the city, but the Prince named someone else (my character) Tremere primogen.&nbsp; Which worked out nicely since the Regent was Auspex/Thaum focused and the primogen was Influence/Dominate focused.&nbsp; And they worked beautifully in playing people -- for instance, the Regent promising help to people, but hedging by stating that he'd have to get that approved by the primogen as well and vice versa.&nbsp; Garnered them quite a few favors with little to no cost in the long run.
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>03-02-2009, 17:24:19</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Make the Storyteller happy then hone off the combat skills and the like and more political machine, who may have experience with the Sabbat and has enough magical skill to at least be a serious hobbiest. About what you have now is good. And to the Storyteller a very high level ritual can take decades or maybe a century to learn most Tremere might not know many over Level 3 and Level 5 would be fewer. In this sort of concept its more learn magic to GET BY not use it for its powers sake. Dominate would likely be more pressing I would think. And with his blood strength he could fuck over underlings to make them all think he is a master magus and to fear him, if he was mean. Just add in a few plausible stories here and there, make key respected Tremere think he destroyed this Tzimisce Magus in magical combat when it really was a team of ghouls during the day. And there you go.<br><br>Its not like he is the Primogen in Vienna now is it? And many Elders might respect his skill playing the system to his advantage yet serving the clan.<br><br>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Vandren</strong> on <strong>12-02-2009, 18:20:02</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Still going forward with this or has it dried up into a withered corpse?
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>Elven Sex Goddess</strong> on <strong>12-02-2009, 18:47:37</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				Dried up, but the sun just has not reached and burned it to an ash just yet.<br><br>I apologize, for I had hoped that it would be self driving.&nbsp; With my part only in overseeing.&nbsp; &nbsp;I know realize with small turn out right now.&nbsp; &nbsp;That is not possible.&nbsp; &nbsp;So been thinking keep the elder made,&nbsp; as part of back drop of the city.&nbsp; But go with either ancillia or neonate.&nbsp; Run like a more personal coterie setting.&nbsp; &nbsp;As Rubyslippers has suggested.&nbsp; &nbsp;At least until get more interest from others to participate.&nbsp; &nbsp;<br><br><br><br>
			</dd>
			<dt class="postheader">
				Title: <strong>Re: V;tM San Antonio by Night Chronicle OOC</strong><br>
				Post by: <strong>RubySlippers</strong> on <strong>12-02-2009, 19:20:33</strong>
			</dt>
			<dd class="postbody">
				I would prefer a Neonate than an Ancilla, less is expected of them after all and they have more flexibility. <br><br>And a shameless plug for the VtR game we can use players its a different whole deal with mostly experienced a bit Kindred in a area near Philedelphia it seems so far heavily Unaligned. And I suspect plots would include keeping the area free from the Prince of Philadelphia's clutches, dealing with the Pure (werewolves that want the world back the way it was before humans brought civilization and dealing with each other as independent Kindred with some reason to join forces now and then.<br><br>We can use more players.<br><br>I'll have a new character for this as soon as possible, using the standard Neonate rules.
			</dd>
		</dl>
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