(lay on hands is devine gm - not magical - and is therefor not included in the ways to stop bleeding in the first place - I looked it up on OCG I can not stop the bleeding with lay on hands... I mean you could dm rule that lay on hands acts like magical healing but its rediculous that bleed doesn't come with a fort save in the first place if non-magical healing can't stop it... - also thank you for at least giving me a number as to how many of these guys were here, but did neither of my lay on hands go through somehow?)