(you also said shortly before hand that they ping on detect evil - I'll go ahead and edit that if Ambrose says that with # and size your zombies and or you somehow didn't ping while the kraken did... but it wouldn't be too difficult to count 3 undead creatures - one of which now on the ground and thus easily determined to be undead and no one else in the room other than the heavily obscured creature to account for the last ping... also paladin with high wisdom would know that first one wasn't bleeding if the first one isn't bleeding for the knowlege that the other one is likely undead too...<br/>Yah - +7 know religion and I believe that class gives me bonus for undead, +7 heal check... if I can't get them with ping evil the fact that these guys aren't bleeding and OBVIOUSLY one is dead... and if that SOMEHOW doesn't cut it all that it would mean is that me and my palidiness would want to lay on hands the downed zombie: if I somehow DON'T know it's a zombie now I'm SURE going to know it next turn when my lay on hands destroys a dead body I was trying to heal...)<br/><br/>(True - very true)