 Hey, how's my hair? Welcome. What does this look like? Is this what I surfboard? Oh really? We're going to just start with Maki me? Just opening. You know what? That's the Virgcast for tonight. We'll be back tomorrow. We got a lot of great stuff planned. I had such a great intro. I was all set to do. Is this on? We're live. We're live. Okay. We're live. Hey, and welcome to the Virgcast. This is not like professional TV. CES 2014, Wednesday night. I'm Josh Dupolsky. I'm Neil Iapitel. And we got, and we got... A special guest. A special guest. Hello. What is going on with this? I'm out here floating out here. These guys are close together. You had me move. Where you at? What was the point yet? Yeah, yeah. Cheat out. I can break that? Cheat out. That's very good. I broke something. Joanna knows how to cheat out. This is a fancy set. Anyhow, this is the Virgcast. It's CES day... Two. Three. Three. Five. Four. It's been... Wait. Monday was an official day or not an official day? No. Yesterday was one. This is two. Let's just put it this way. We've been at CES a long time. I've been drinking. I've been living. We're living. We're living. We're living. We're living. We're living. We're laughing. We're loving. Sterne is here. And Joanna Sterne... Being Sterne. A Wall Street Journal reporter. Joanna Sterne. Columnist, actually. Sure. Whatever you say. Columnist? Wall Street Journal. Wall Street Journal. Columnist. Yes. It's a small edit. Joanna Sterne is here. Joanna, welcome. It's great to be here. Things are really crazy for you right now. Yeah. You just got a new position. I did. You're a Wall Street Journal reporter. You just recently got engaged. I did. What's next for Joanna Sterne? When are you having a baby? Oh, wow. You just went right there. That's what everybody's asking me. You just slid right into it. I believe you forgot when I had a baby a couple of seconds ago. Hello. Hello. Can we bring that footage up? Can we get the footage of the baby? Yeah. We need that footage of the baby ASAP. I was going to say the baby's name is Vlad. The footage of her having a baby is a yes. Can we have that? Can we ride back to the... Can we have that? And also the stroller. We'll need that up as well. I mean, that's the next one. If we were going to do the Barbara Walters emotional, there's going to be a lot of changes. Can you guys please pull that up? There's going to be a lot of, you know... Do we have that... I'm actually really not even hooked up. You're just wearing... You're just wearing... You can't even see it. Is it actually in your ear? Oh, yes. It's in my ear. What's the point? Why? Because you guys had all these official things and I didn't have anything, so I asked to have this. Speaking of... Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Here it is. Here it is. Oh, God. Why did you have Thomas Ricker's baby? There's my baby. Oh, my God. My hair was so long. That baby does look a little bit like Neil Armstrong. Man, I really like that. I still have that shirt. You guys... Oh, my God. Both of you look so happy. This is year... Was this year one? What are you doing? That's my baby. Oh, this thing's so cool. I'm getting one of these. You couldn't close the stroller with the baby inside it. It's not safe. Why would you... Nobody closes a stroller with a baby inside of it. No, and that stroller in particular had a weight sensor. I don't know if the baby was still in there. Look at how far we've come. You know what? You know what? We have steps that have two sides to them. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, we really have... We've done a lot there. Also, our wrap is way better this year. Our wrap is way... It's a heart. It's a... It's paint. It's like paint. No, it's a... It doesn't matter. I don't know what it is. It's like a lacquer. Let me tell you what's going on right now in the Verge trailer. Can I just talk about this for a second? Yeah. It smells like man. First off, we have a lot of female... There are a lot of female members of the team. Yes, there are. Don't be bringing this new-fangled sexism. No, but no, it doesn't matter. The ratio, here's what I know. It doesn't matter how much you can commit. The men will overpower with their smell. Yes. You can have one dude and 500 ladies. You lock that dude in a room alone, it's just gonna smell like dude. That's because men are at the top or the best. Of the smelly chain. Women are just off to the side. Who are the smelliest of types? Anyhow. Men. We got a burger bar over there. We got all the fix-ins. It's like a Hardee's. It is incredible. It is, actually. I ate all your French fries. We can all go and have a hamburger. We got veggie burgers. There's French fries. Yeah, sweet potato fries. There was sweet potato fries. Actually, they're not coming. There's no more coming. What do you mean? The man who brought them said there's no more sweet potato fries. There is like literally 50 pounds of sweet potato fries over there. He brought more? There's a huge vat of sweet potato fries. There are not enough sweet potato fries for you over there. I just felt badly. Anyhow, this is the Vergecast where we discuss the week in technology and technology-related items. Actually, it's actually just the day. This is not previously recorded. Can we put that up again? That was an hour ago. I just saw it in the control room. I found an error. What was that? I don't even know that we have a previously recorded. You did find an error. What are we like? Are you plugged in now? No, I'm not. I heard him over there. You guys don't need these. They're right there. I got to say, I'm happy the way things worked out. I know. I forgot. I think this is really fantastic. I agree. Can I just point out? Let's move to the next one. Your claim is that I don't need this because they're right there. But you're wearing it in the wrong way. You're wearing it in the wrong way. You're wearing it in the wrong way. You're wearing it in the wrong way. You're wearing it in the wrong way. Right, because it's to look official. It's to work for ABC News. Speaking of official. Speaking of trolls, let's talk about John Legere. Let's talk about ABC News. Why did you leave? It seems like you left the verge to go to ABC News. It seemed like things were going to be great. And now you're on to the next thing. This is a great opportunity. You can't stop moving. When are you going to settle down? When I'm at the top. And that's where I am. Remember, you heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. You heard it here first.不会 She's coming for you. In the night, you're a dead man. Oh my god. You should read Hatching Twitter. That's what happened. I just saw Nick Bunton. Did you read that? I saw Nick, yeah. It's a great guy. Great guy who was going to gamble, and if he wins, I've told him to put 20 down for me. Yeah. This could be a big night for me. Yeah. By the way, I tweeted $4,000, and you can get a MacBook Air instead of a baby. I think that's probably true. All right. We know what you mean by that. We'll take this off. I intend to procure a child. All right, let's carry on. What's your device of the show, Joanna? It's pretty impressive when I feel uncomfortable. Me too. So congratulations, you two. You would. Joanna, we're at CES, the Consumer Electronics Show. Yeah. What's your gadget of the show? What's your product of the show? What do you love it? I've been thinking about this question all day. Boy, I hope you don't say that toothbrush. I was about to say the toothbrush. Why is it the toothbrush? You bombed last year with the fork. ABC was all over the fork. You were like, fork this, fork that. And then you just reviewed the fork. How's the fork? Fork you. It's a great product. You're like, fork this. I actually reviewed the fork for my first column in the Wall Street Journal. By the way, Joanna is a columnist at the Wall Street Journal, the acclaimed story newspaper. It was actually a peg to people wanting to lose weight in the year. Because they're marketing this product because you will lose weight if you eat with this fork. Not possible. Not true. You know why? Because if you want to eat a bunch of food, no amount of buzzing will stop you. No, I'll tell you. That's a great way to review. I'll tell you. I watched this video where you just began to eat. I'll tell you how it works. You get the fork out at your favorite restaurant, and then you feel like such a loser for having the fork. I did. I did that in New York for the last month when I was in New York. Where did you go? Where did you take the fork? I took it to Chinese restaurants. I took it to Italian places. Can you be more specific? First off, taking a fork to a Chinese restaurant is extremely lame on several levels. It is, but I don't know how to work chopsticks anyway. You don't? No, not very well. But actually, back to the Bluetooth toothbrush, which there's enough puns in there. I think you mean the Bluetooth brush. The Bluetooth brush, right. They put the tooth in the Bluetooth. I am a bad tooth-brusher. I am bad at brushing my teeth. What does that mean? Can you be more explicit? I do not brush my teeth for long enough. And I'm into all of these devices and the promise that they're going to make my life better. But they're all gimmicks. Don't you understand this is all a gimmick? They're all gimmicks. This is like a? They're totally gimmicks, but someone, first of all, has to test them to make sure they are. They don't work. And that's not going to be my job. I don't know if I'm going to get past some of my editors. Wait, what is it? What is your job? Well, someone has to test these things to me before they hit shelves. Well, not before they hit shelves, but to tell people they should buy them. No, someone doesn't. Right? I don't think so. I think it should be a test of IQ. I think we should let the dumb people buy the Bluetooth brush or the fork that vibrates. And you shouldn't have to waste your time and energy reviewing them. But there's all, I mean, beyond the toothbrush, right? There's this whole internet of things thing. I mean, the whole idea is that everything around us can be connected. And that's going to help our lives in some way. Well, I guess so. Yeah. I mean, that's the idea that they're selling at CES this. No, that's the idea that they've been selling for the whole past year, right? Right. As Bluetooth low energy has gotten better, all of this stuff can have a small chip in it and somehow communicate with something else. So actually, I would like to segue this into another thing that might be at the top of my. We get the segue noise in there also. Yeah, the segue, which is I went to go see SmartThings. Have you guys seen their stuff? And they're sort of trying. Is that a brand? They're doing this platform for the internet of things. Is this the thing with the picture of you with the toilet paper? No, that's just an iPad holder for the word. That's the adult iPod that I made. I like that. I'm pretty committed to that. But SmartThings was a Kickstarter project. They raised a ton of money. Now they've got a lot of venture. And they're trying to do the platform for home automation. I was telling Thomas Ricker about this before, because Thomas Ricker has been talking about home automation at this show for how long? Five years ago. He's like, I'm on this beat. I'm on this beat. But home automation is definitely a thing now. Right. And it's all about putting connectivity in all of these devices in our home. And it's off the strip. They rented out a house. They outfitted the whole house with their little sensors. Basically, they're working with all the companies, from Philips Hue to Nest, all of them, to get things to talk to each other, and even jaw bones. So you walk into the house. That's interesting. You walk into the house. You're wearing your jawbone up. It knows you're there. It turns on the lights. I assume we covered this, or did we just find this randomly? I haven't seen all of our coverage. No, I've seen this thing. So I would say my favorite thing at the show is this stuff. I'm into it. So how does it interface with these products? So there's an app that lets you bring in and bring in the other products in there. And so the interesting thing is you're communicating with your house. So it says, good morning. You can tap everything, and it will do everything you'd want in the morning. But I think what's interesting is the idea that it knows you're in the room, and it can turn on your Sonos. It can tell you the Sonos can talk actually to your coffee maker. So the interfaces are like they just showed an air conditioner. That's you buy a plug outlet thing. And it kills the plug. I mean, I think we're still far ways away from all this stuff like hitting mainstream. But I'm really into it. What I think is interesting is that this is sort of in a way, Matt Panzarino wrote a pretty interesting editorial on TechCrunch last night about contextual sort of phones as contextual devices that know where you are and what you're doing. And he was doing it because of the Yahoo acquisition of Aviate. And this is another contextual thing. Like you wake up, and it says, hey, good morning. And then you go into this room, and it turns on Sonos. I think the problem with contextual right now is that I think it's better for phones because the way we use phones is extremely specific and detailed. And where we go with them is extremely specific. I think in your home, the problem is like, how do you identify? Like how are you going to identify when I walk into my living room that I want the Sonos to turn on? So I have a totally different theory of phones. But you don't always want the Sonos to be on when you walk into your living room. So the context is really. But maybe it knows every morning you like to listen to NPR. But every morning you don't like to listen to NPR. A lot of people have a routine. No, I don't. I actually don't listen to NPR. No, but some people sometimes will listen to NPR, but sometimes they won't. And the question is like. But every morning I do watch Good Morning America. But it would be annoying if every time you walked into the room it did exactly the same thing. No, so here's my bigger theory. In that everything you're talking about, the stuff right now, you have to learn how to use it in a really specific way. Like you've got to program all that shit. I walk into my house. I want x things to happen. No one will ever do that. And so as I've been walking around seeing the wearables and seeing all this crap, all of this crap, I haven't seen one true wearable here that's great. I totally agree. And I've been thinking about why. And I keep coming back to glass, which is the ultimate in wearables. And glass has too many costs. I don't mean money. It's expensive and rare and doesn't do a lot. But this is expensive in a lot of different ways to me as a consumer. Like I have to have a data plan. I have to charge the battery. I have a Mophie case on it because it's useless here. Well, I bought it to come here. And that's expensive. You should have it always. But no, that's expensive. To think as a human being, I'm about to go to another city and I know that this thing needs battery and I should go buy a battery case is an insane thing to think. I have to worry about my data plan and how much I'm going to. There's so many costs associated with this. And so to say people use phones in specific ways, I think is, people use phones in all kinds of ways. And they're so useful all the time that I'm willing to pay that cost, that incredible set of costs. And it's not just me as a nerd. It's everybody. This is an explosively disruptive product. And it's because everybody is willing to pay the same cost. And I look at the Galaxy Gear or even the Fitbit. And it's like, my Fitbit died last night. I don't even plug it into the charger today because it's like, I don't want to worry about this. No, I mean, this is such a smart home. It's like, do I want to pay all these costs for so few benefits? So instead of me remembering to turn off my air conditioner when I leave the house, then it turns the air conditioner off for me. And I think maybe we will get to a point where they're so good and so smart and you're just like, man, I don't know how I live without. Either you lower the costs of the mental cost of having a thing or you skyrocket the benefits to make the cost worth it. But I think you have to identify problem areas. Nest did a really good job of saying, look, you spent a lot of money on air conditioning and heating. We have ways that we can help you save money on that stuff. The thermostat hasn't been touched for like 50 years, 100 years. Here's something that will actually have real effects on your life, monetary. I think that's the thing that sells to Nest. And safety, right? Yeah, but I think that's what the smoke detector's about. Yeah, but the smoke detector's a much harder sell. And I will say this. I just met with the Nest guys today. They have a fire truck. They let me run the siren. They have an actual fire truck. I mean, I was like a five-year-old kid. Because you're five years old. It was the most, we'll run the interview tomorrow. He was like, they let me do the siren. They let me sit in the fire truck and turn the engine and run the siren. You're five. I'm five. Is that even legal? I don't think that's five. I was in a parking lot. They're like, you're going to get arrested. I still think it's illegal. They maybe stopped doing it after a while. They didn't give me a hat. I don't even know how you could have a fire truck legally. They bought it on Craigslist. No, I understand that. Really? I can't just get an ambulance and drive around in it. Yes, you can, apparently. Have you met Craigslist? Anyway. Have I met Craigslist? Several times. His name is Craigslist. Yeah, Craig. No, it's Craigslist is his name. Craigslist. Oh, well, he painted it blue. Should I search for this in Las Vegas or in your hometown? Are we looking for an ambulance? Anyway, so. That's like an ambulance for sale in Las Vegas. No, and you know what, the thing with the smoke detector is. Mobile prostitution. That's what the ambulance is being used for. Mobile prostitution in Vegas. It's like, yeah, you just pull up. Somebody gets in. They get out 15 minutes later. And you're on to the next. He's running the siren the whole time. Then you start it up. Please invest. No, you know the thing with the smoke detector is. How about an ambulance stretcher? You don't get to play with it every day. The Nest is popular. It's expensive. But you can screw with it all the time. But it's also early. You can look at it on your phone. All you can look at. It's not a widespread adoption. I mean, it's. No, but I think that early adopter set, they want to play with toys. They love toys. And so I haven't bought the smoke detector. I think it's cool. I think it's interesting. But I can put one up in my house and constantly check that my home isn't on fire. And that's about it. I mean, and that's why the things like the fork and the toothbrush seem so gimmicky is that, listen. I can control. All you need to do to control your eating is control your eating. You don't need a fork to. By the way, you can definitely go to ambulancetrader.com. Nice. But everything is trying to solve a problem, right? No, but you have to. And yes, everything's trying to solve a problem. But the question you have to ask is, like, is the problem worth solving in this manner? I agree. Or is this just some crappy way of getting to spend $140? And with the fork, there was too many trade-offs, right? No, there's no situation where you need a fork to do anything for you while you're eating. Like, except shovel the food. There's nothing one situation where the food is here and your mouth is here and you need to do this. People get interested in ridiculous things all the time. That doesn't mean that there's anything behind the idea. But talking about the contextual thing, I mean, I actually, when I did this review, I wanted to actually provide some useful information to you. And I got super into tracking my food. And that's useful to people. Yeah, but that's you. You pick up your phone and press the app. But that's a lot of information I've got to do. Why doesn't the fork just know? But the fork can't tell you what you're eating. Why not? Because we don't have the technology to do that. And that's what I'm saying. Well, when they have the technology, when they have the technology. By the way, what happens when you eat a sandwich? What's the fork going to do then? Nothing. That's also mentioned in the piece, OK? OK. I'm just saying. But not mentioned by the people who make the fork ever. You know, like, you're having a Reuben. Before you eat a sandwich, stab the fork in the middle. No fork. You're having a burger, no fork. I went to Subway, no fork. I'm eating a piece of cake. Oh, that's fork. But imagine if that fork. Cupcake, no fork. Well, imagine if the fork. Cookie, no fork. You know what the worst stuff you eat with your hands? Popcorn, no fork. Yes, the worst things you eat with your hands. A bag of chips. Are you going in there with a fork? No. You're reaching in. Are you a dietitian? A registered dietitian? I am actually a professional dietitian. I spoke to some dietitians. Yeah, I go like this. I'm a dietitian. You figured it out. And they said the same thing. I could have quoted you in my piece. The worst stuff you eat with your hands? Yeah. Who said that? The dietitian. You did not read my first column. No, I didn't read the whole thing. I got bored, frankly. You know why? Because I don't want to read about forks. Better luck next time. She's writing about the fork. And then I was like, delete my entire internet history. Delete my browser application. I erased my hard drive. Then I went and bought every copy of that paper I could find and burned it in a bonfire. No. What did I say here? What are you saying? OK. Yeah. I like that B-roll. Was that Dieter? Who was that? Or was that you? What? I don't even know who that was. Sorry. I'm busy RLRTing everything you say. Grab the fork. Oh, OK. What are you RLRTing? I don't know. The worst things you eat with your hands. Can we roll my fork video in just next few minutes? Let's run the fork video. Yeah, let's get the fork video. OK, here we go. Here we go. How can we pull up Joanna having a fake baby in eight seconds and get the fork video? Wait, is this an ABC News report? No, it's from Wall Street Journal. This is my first video. Oh, I'm sorry. The video from Wall Street. Did they approve? Is this allowed? Can we show the Wall Street Journal video? Oh, yeah. We've got to probably get some. Hey, Wall Street Journal. I'm Rupert. I'm not hearing anything from the control room. John. Oh, the Wall Street Journal video player isn't very good. So we're having some issues with that. Is that it? Yes, we're all out of time. No, they just found it. It took them a minute. Anyway. They're like they're covering. They're like we're having some technical issues. I can see John. This dude doesn't know how to search. Am I right? So this is my favorite. I mean, I don't know. I haven't I really can I just say I'm not impressed with anything I've seen. Can you eat cereal with the fork? Did you see the Pebble Steel? Yeah, the Pebble Steel is nice, but like I'm not familiar. I was definitely scolded when I was younger for eating too fast. But over the last couple of days, I've actually slowed down a little. And that's because of this. This is the HapMap fork. It's a Bluetooth connected fork. Wow, it's so small. That actually vibrates. The fork is not. You eat too fast. The fork is the same new product. You wouldn't even notice that if you took it out of the restaurant. The only problem is, well, actually, there's a lot of problems. That fork isn't the most attractive utensil. When Wall watches, a little tear rolled down his cheek. It's chunkier than most forks, but that's because of the tech components inside. I really don't know what to say other than I have not really seen anything like that. I'd love to make a pregnancy test. So the watch. That's it. It looks like a pregnancy test. I like that you call that out immediately. I don't know what else to say here, but definitely it's a success. I think that, what is it, smart home? Yeah. I think that's actually a great example of. You guys should know over there. But I think what's interesting about that. We've done stuff with them. I think what's interesting about that is that they're trying to be the. Whatever we have. Success and success. Guys, it's not a race, OK? I think what's interesting about that is they're trying to be the intermediary. And the biggest problem with all of this stuff, whether it's the fork or the Fitbit or whatever, is that you'll have all this information. You can look at it there or look at it there, but you can't look at it as a connected thing. You can't go open an app and say, this is what my fork did. This is what my Fitbit did. Here's what's happening in my house. And that's actually the real problem that needs to be addressed, which is none of this it's weird how we could slip into a totally cogent, normal sounding point. That's the stuff that is. So that's a great pick. You know, I think it solves that solves a real problem. I mean, I covered wearables for two days. The pebble you're not interested in. I tried on all of it. You guys can watch that video too. Honestly, the pebble. So here's my thing on the pebble. But I don't want to wear any of this stuff. So I don't want to wear any of this stuff either. And the thing about the pebble is that it's nicer than the last pebble, like by leaps and bounds. But it's still not the kind of thing I thought about. Maybe I'd get one. Maybe I'd wear it. But I'm not like, man, I need to wear that watch. But also you wear a really nice watch. I mean, I wear. But it's still your watch. And you both wear nice watches. And OK, so you have like a fabric band. I mean, my thing with that one. It's actually called a NATO strap. Oh, sorry. Why is it called the NATO strap? I think it has something to do with NATO. I'm not really sure. I have no idea. But this is referred to as a NATO strap. But I mean, to me, the pebble is definitely a big improvement. People can get by with wearing it to work. And men, men can get by to wearing with work. Well, actually, Chris was complaining. And Chris Ziegler was complaining about it. Because he thought it wasn't big enough. And my thinking was like, well, this is so it can be. I mean, you're wearing a pebble right now. I am, to point out. That looks ridiculously big. It looks ridiculous on me. Have you tried the new one on? Yes. So you must like that better, right? I actually do like wearing men's watches. But I also just feel that it feels a little chintzy. That, no, no, no. The pebble feels like a knockoff. The new one? Yeah, I never wanted that one. The new one kind of feels like a Casio. Yeah, it does. Not that Casio makes a bad calculator watch. But it doesn't feel like a heavy watch. It looks nice. It doesn't feel as good. I mean, if you pick up a real watch, like a Rolex, they're heavy. We talked about this. Do we talk about this last time? I don't know. It's French. Is your watch heavy? No. I used to wear a Michael Kors men's watch. This morning, we had the pebble on here this morning. I would call this heavy-ish. And I was saying that real watches are very heavy. They feel substantial. That one is not heavy. I said the same thing. But you know what? Technology wants to be light. Right. Technology wants to be light. And also, they can't charge $600 for that watch. What kind of phone are you using now? An iPhone? An iPhone. Does this feel like sweet freedom to you? Oh, you guys both have Mophies. What's your battery life on right now? Do you have the BlackBerry that I know you have with you? I don't. I have a special keyboard. I got to tell you, I'm using the Sony Z1. I also like the Typo keyboard. The one that clicks in the iPhone? You have it? Oh, I have it. Wait, you have what? There's a basic BlackBerry. It's called BlackBerry now. You know I still correct myself every time I call the company BlackBerry? Wait, you have the keyboard that BlackBerry's suing over? The Ryan Seacrest keyboard? Where is it? The Ryan Seacrest? You don't have it on you? I do have it in my bag. Guys, bring that bag over here. Don't touch my bag. Bring that bag. Get her bag. No, that's my bag. My baby. That's my bag. Our baby. You got a baby in the bag. Do not touch my bag. Come on, bring it over here. Jordan, you'll have to shoot the video at my wedding if you bring that over here. I'm not joking. It's just coming over here. I will pay you and I will get you a hotel room. Look at, oh my god, this bag is heavy. This is my bag. Oh my goodness. Is that why we couldn't touch it? Are you really mad about us touching the bag? No. You know what, Joanna, I don't know. You've changed. You don't want people touching your bag anymore. I don't want people touching my bag. All right, here we go. This is, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh my god. Wait, why don't we have one of these? We probably, I mean, I think we just have to ask. Why aren't we testing? Is this an exclusive Wall Street Journal? No, but I want to review it in the next couple of weeks. This is like, it doesn't even have a thing. I like it. Let me see it. It feels a little cheap, but I can type fast as hell. Really? Well, you're in a Blackberry. I'm a Blackberry person. I'm actually, this is. I mean, that is 100% a Blackberry keyboard. Yeah. Without question. Can I see it or what? I haven't used it today. Can you unlock your phone so I can check out the keyboard? Just open up a note. I just want to type in it. If you get nasty messages from somebody, I won't even open that. Well, it's a little slow because the battery is probably. Oh, really? Interesting problem. It's a little slow because the battery is low? I don't know. I have to say, I'm not a native Blackberry. I like keyboards. I've always loved keyboards. But oh, boy, look at this. That's ridiculous. I mean, I would have said this was probably one of my favorites of the show. This is awful. This is the worst thing. It came out so long ago. No, it didn't. It just came out. But they sued them beforehand. They sued them last week. That was last week. That was last week. I mean, can I just say, it feels terrible to use. You just keep using it. You'll love it. Well, I'm not saying. I've had seven typos in the five seconds. Well, it's called the typo. You just don't know how to use it. I mean, for God's sake, it's called the typo. They should be sued. I'm glad they're being sued. I mean, I don't even understand. I'm glad they're being sued. No, I mean, this is like a crazy rip off. What's this? Oh, my god. Look, they got that Seacrest money. They can defend themselves. How is it possible? Why does Seacrest just have to divert royalties from one program to defend a framework? I'm willing to bet you dollars to donuts in a race. I would go faster. No. I would win. You would lose. I would win. 100%. 100% every time to a good virtual keyboard typist. Or swipe. Yeah, let's compete right now. I'm not. Let's do it. No, I don't want to. I'm ready to go. What is that? You're using a Sony? Yeah, and I love it. Really? It's very good. Is that the Google Play version? What's that? You want to do splits? You want to do splits? Is that a Google Play version? No, this is Sony's. This is the international unlocked version. This is awful. Let's go. Right now. Can you guys confirm that? Give me a sentence. Give me any sentence right now, and I'll type it. OK, you ready? Here we go. Wait, hold on. I don't have the sentence. Well, I don't have it either. We're just going to go right now. Wait, someone should tell me what to do. I'm going to give you a sentence from our next topic, and that's going to be our segment. OK, here we go. Here we go. OK, this is from John Legere. Wait, is that it? I don't know how to spell his last name. No, no, that's not the sentence. I've never known how to spell his last name. It doesn't matter. Here's the sentence. I don't know how to read his last name, actually. I'm going to send a cease and desist letter to AT&T telling them to stop their ads saying they are the fastest. OK, I screwed up bad here, so I'm already losing. Tell them what? Telling them to stop their ads saying they are the fastest. Whatever Joanna is doing with her thumbs is very disturbing. I'm just going to say it right now. I mean, it's like she's not really pushing things. I did it. I have two typos. I don't know how to spell his last name. I mean, I will say that the typos are in some of the most important words. I got, I have a mix. That's probably because I don't know how to spell them to begin with. I should have just tried typing. Can we do another sentence? I mean, I definitely know the word desist does not have. I thought swipe would be faster, but I don't think it is. Here's what I know. The word desist does not have an O in it, and the word letter does not have a Y in it. I got a deer in my mind. All right, let's try another sentence. I failed completely. OK, I'm just giving you an extents of the quote. OK, yeah, go ahead. Hold on, OK. Are we going to start typing as he's saying it? No, I'm just going to say it. I'm going to say it, and then I'll drop. And then I'm going to drop my hands, and you're going to start typing. No, can you, we should just do it when we hear it, because it's much harder to think of what you said. Sure. You know how many billboards they are going to have to take down. Not a contraction, by the way. I mean, again, this is super fucking disturbing. It's like, I don't even know. It's just vibrating in her hands. It's just shaking, and then like, words are produced. Done. Done. I beat you on that one. No, I was ahead of you. I said done, and I beat you. Well, you have a contraction. Oh, no contraction. I definitely said no contraction. They will. They will have to take down. No, you have a typo. I have no typos. Havver. OK, so I have a contraction, but no typos. All right, let's keep going. This is the worst piece of it. Seriously, the worst phrase of all. Let's go. What do you got next? Let's do it. OK, you ready? Yep. I'm seriously just giving you a lot. I am impressed by this one. I'm just going to keep giving you John Legere quotes, because they're awesome. Here we go. Ready? Sprint is a pile of spectrum waiting to be turned into a capability. What? This is our next topic. I mean, I don't even know what this is. It's like, ah. And then Josh just looks like, I don't even know what this is. It's a robot surgery. Done. I spelled into wrong. I got pule of spectrum. I screwed up on capability. OK, we're done with this. We should talk about. We are done with me winning, right? You're sober, right? I just want to be clear. Yeah. Well, that's my biggest thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's the thing. One of us looks like a dork. One of us doesn't. You. No. You. Tony. With the Ryan Seacrest case. Can I push your arm? I'm sure that is a nice one. Can we do one more and then really launch into this topic? Wait, we're doing another sentence? We can do one more. Right. Let me clear my sentences out. OK, go ahead. Wait, I want to clear my sentences out. Of me winning. OK, you ready? It's actually two. Hold on. I'm not done yet. I need to. It's two sentences, but it's going to lead us right into this topic. John Legere. Team LEC. Are we spelling his name? L-E-G-E-R-E. Why are we doing this right now? So I have to say John Legere? No, no, you don't have to do it. OK, here's the quote. My phone already just knows it. Here's the quote. And then we're going to segue. Is here's the quote part of it? No. My god. Here we go. Wait, are we just going to start when you start talking? OK, go ahead. Go. AT&T is the total source of amusement for me. They are the ones that take my bullshit. I mean, can you guys hear this? It's like a thousand tiny amps. I blew this. It's weird. Why do you want your hands to sound like that? Oh, because I just typed it all perfectly. Yeah, that's true. I completely blew this. Amusement just completely killed me. I typoed it. God, a rabbit hole. All right, well, so at least in this moment. I didn't get the ampersand in AT&T. Blackberry Stern has prevailed. How long have you used a Blackberry for? Forever. Wow. I mean, I've got to say, I'm blown away. You are really fast on this. It's also terrifying. I don't even understand what just happened. Your thumbs must be very strong. They are very strong. Yeah, I mean, these guys, this guy, if somebody makes a gif of that, I'll kill you. I got to say, are they making one of these for Android phones? A lot of, I mean, OK. Yes, actually, I think they said they focused on this now. So can we talk about these folks? Yeah, no, I want to talk about this. So John Legere, here's what I believe. By the way, today I've chosen to pronounce it. So it doesn't do, do you have to do a correction? No, it doesn't do, that's a part of the review. That's crazy. Why wouldn't it do correction? Because that would be insane. I know. Because then you could just. Wait, so Apple turned off correction? Yeah. When they have a keyboard attached? With Bluetooth, probably. But they don't do that on Maverick, so what? I don't know. Yeah, OK. Can we talk about these quotes? Yeah, go ahead. OK, so John Legere today had a press conference. He announced, he teased something very rough. This is like hour four of this Vergecast, by the way. I mean, we've been typing for most of it. OK, go ahead. Is this the worst one you've had this whole series? No, that was yesterday. 32 minutes? God, it feels like it's been a lot longer. That's because I'm here. It does. OK, so John Legere, T-Mobile press conference today. Go on. Basically came out, trashed every carrier in the business, and then announced that he'll pay your early termination fee if you switch to T-Mobile. Right, that's awesome. It's sort of awesome. They're not going to. I don't know how they still have money. Well, I don't know how they still have money. Well, they're doing well, right? People are paying the money for service. Here's what I don't understand about John Legere. And I'm going to say this very directly. How to spell his name. No, I understand how to spell his name. I don't quite understand how to pronounce his name. Straight up, he will not do an interview with any respectable press outlet that I can think of. He's in this character all the time. That he's always raging. He's always fucking with people. He's going to the AT&T party. He's like, I just want to see Macklemore. He told Dan Sefer that he has no life. He has no life. And I take personal. I'm a fan. He's right, Dan. And I get it. He's like out there. He's throwing bombs left and right. He's a vulnerable child. No, he's throwing bombs left and right, which is great. He's channeling. T-Mobile's marketing strategy right now is I am the personification of rage at AT&T. AT&T is, he's saying it himself. They're taking the bait. They're idiots. They're responding to T-Mobile because T-Mobile's taking their customers. But as far as I can tell, he's only playing this character. I have no idea what he's actually like. That's what he's like, I think. As a business. No, he used to work for AT&T. He's reinvented himself. Well, he saw what was going on. He grew his hair out and got a leather jacket. And now he's like this other person. Has he had work done? Any person who's watching this show at this time who has persevered to continue watching this show knows that I am fully in support of every policy that he has laid out for T-Mobile. They're going to kill the contracts. They're going to do full priced phones. They're going to end these. All of that is great. But what I don't understand is why playing this role for him is more important than explaining why he's doing some of these things and explaining why the industry needs to change in this way. Well, does he have to explain why contracts are bad and why AT&T is a monopoly? Because you know, this is like, this is like, Nelay yells at an invisible Obama. But if he was here, it would be, how are you going to pay for this? How are you going to actually improve your network? How are you going to make it so that I can have T-Mobile? I hear you're a real person. And those questions, as far as I can tell, cannot be answered. So he won't put himself in any situation where he can answer them. How are you going to pay for the ETF thing? No, how are you going to make the service better? OK, if you're going to do that, if you're going to save your investment dollars, how are you going to survive? And you know what he refused to answer today? Is Sprint going to buy you? I thought he didn't say no. He just refused it. No, he didn't say no. He didn't say no. He didn't say no. Right, he didn't say no. He just danced around it. No, no, no, he didn't dance around it. He didn't. What he actually said was basically Sprint is going to buy us, but the spirit of Uncarrier will live on if Sprint. I think what he basically said on stage today, and I'm not reading into it that much, was yes, Sprint is going to buy us, but T-Mobile is going to be the brand. What we're doing in any scenario will prevail. Listen, we could play the clip probably. I'm sure we have the clip. I can tell you. Wait, here it is. I was thinking about it. I can tell you the T-Mobile brand attitude and identity is here to stay. That's right. What he's saying is Sprint, SoftBank, it's not even Sprint anymore. SoftBank will buy us, and they will rebrand all of it as T-Mobile. That's what they're going to do, because T-Mobile is a fresher, more interesting, and exciting brand. And do you know why? Because of the last eight months of John Legere. Basically, and I wouldn't, if I had to guess, and I don't know for sure, my assumption would be that Legere came in, and the board was like, hey, listen, we're in early talks to do something with Sprint, and we need to be in a place where we can be the dominant. I want to see John Legere appear in a Sprint commercial like Dan Hesse. No, he'll do it. It'll all just be hot cakes. Here's what I think is, and look, I'm saying it's successful. It is working. We are paying so much more attention to T-Mobile because of him. But also, the stuff is good. He is never doing. The plans are good. The plans are good. The plans are good. The ideas are good. The idea is about how we hire folks. I got a T-Mobile SIM card in my bag right now. I have a T-Mobile unlimited data SIM card in my bag right now. Yeah, but you won't have service. Well, let me ask you a question. I'll just give it to you. Will you switch to that network? Let me ask you a question. How does an underdog like T-Mobile pay for new towers? You know what? That's a great question. I'm going to tell you. Ask it to the CEO of T-Mobile. I can tell you how. I don't have to ask the CEO. I don't have to ask the CEO. They just bought a whole bunch of spectrum from Verizon. Now, I get that. Here's how T-Mobile pays for infrastructure and new towers. Customers. They need more customers. They need more money from customers so they can take that money and go buy stuff. But are they breaking even on every customer that they have? OK, they're not. They wouldn't offer their offerings if they didn't think they were going to make money. No company does that. What is it? Very few companies take a loss. Microsoft has worked their asses off. Hold on. Two days ago, T-Mobile announced a plan to buy unused Verizon spectrum for $3 billion. $3 billion, they're already doing it. They're out there. There you go. They've done it. Buy on the boost of that 8% or whatever increase in subscribers. But what I'm saying is explaining this stuff, you can get out there and you can throw it. But regular customers don't give a shit about how they pay for spectrum. Yeah, but you know who is supposed to understand how they're doing this stuff and explain it to regular people? Like us. And what I'm saying is this company is right now, they're out there. They're throwing bombs. They're saying all of the right things. And then all of the follow up questions, they are ignoring. I don't know. I see this pretty straightforward to me. It's like they're in fourth place. Oh, they did get them. They brought fries for us. Oh, I hope that's not all the fries. Because I'm planning on eating dinner at some point tonight. But you can bring those over if you want. Oh my god. It's snack time. Would those not be enough fries for your dinner? Well, no, but I like to eat the fries with the, would you like some? You like to put them on your burger? Oh, I was trying to. Really? That's like a weird gross. No, no. I just like to have them next to my burger. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Anyhow, all I'm saying is, listen. Listen to me. They have a perfectly sound plan, as far as I can see. Get the brand noticed. I agree. Get people to start thinking about leaving the dominant brands, Verizon and AT&T. Bring on some of those customers. I don't think they're taking that big of a hit. I think if you pay $350 for the ETF, you get a customer. They're going to sell the phone. I mean, that's. They're going to sell the phone, and you get a customer who starts paying you. And guess what? If you just left AT&T, very few people are going to be like, you know what? Now I hate T-Mobile. I'm going to leave T-Mobile. The only thing that would make that happen is if their service was absolutely crap. That's my point. Wait, wait. In New York, you're going to have that. But you're going to leave T-Mobile. It's T-Mobile. They're not going to make you sign a contract. Right. You can leave it any time. You can go right back to AT&T. You misunderstand. Well, you're paying off the phone. You have to pay off the phone for the next couple of years. We sell the phone. I mean, if you switch from AT&T to T-Mobile, because they're like, look at all the money I'm saving, and then you can't make phone calls, you're going to have to write. No, listen. People are lazy. They don't want to switch carriers every two weeks. We're nerds. We're like, I don't give a shit. I'll switch carriers whenever I want. I have never switched carriers. Regular people. That's right. I have AT&T. Regular people like Joanna. Straight up. I've had AT&T for a decade. Wall Street Journal columnists. I've been with Verizon for years. The 85%, the middle. The normals. They don't want to switch. Can we get the map up on the screen? They don't want to switch. They read The Urge. They read Ed Badger. They don't want to switch every two weeks. And they won't switch every two weeks. They'll only do it in dire circumstances, or if they're being given money. Hence, John Legere is a genius. I agree with you. The marketing's definitely working, and they've got better devices. The service for me. Wait, so just answer my question. If he's a genius, and he's a marketing phenomenon, why won't he sit down with any real press outlet for real entertainment? Why shouldn't he? Why doesn't Tim Cook sit down with any press outlets? He goes to Bloomberg one time in a Bloomberg. Are you seriously comparing those two? No, I'm just saying CEOs don't have to do anything they don't want to do. He's not required. There's no gun to his head. He can talk to whoever he wants to talk to. He loves talking to Emily Chang on Bloomberg West. He'll talk to her until he's blue in the face. But Apple's the dominant, far and away market leader in like eight countries. I'm not comparing T-Mobile to Apple. T-Mobile is the fourth place carrier in the worst network. It's his choice. What I'm saying is when you're the CEO of a company, you don't have to do anything really you don't want to do. I hear you, but here's what I know. That's Jim Banchoff. I guess it's Jim. Yeah, Banchoff won't talk to anyone. He won't talk to the press. I'm like, Jim, how you doing? He's like, you won't talk to me. Get out of my face. No, no, I've been trying to talk to you forever. Exactly. What? There you go. They tried to talk to him tonight. Anyhow. Yeah. What I'm saying is, I just think that's his prerogative. I think he's making a conscious choice to own his image. I think that's the thing. That his image is obviously so important to their marketing. So he's owning it. Was the announcement today just to bash his name? No, it was the pay your ETFs. Which is funny, because AT&T just basically announced the same thing. OK, that was AT&T a couple of days ago. The difference is they will actually pay your ETF. AT&T will do a handful of like smoke and mirrors money. Right, like money off this phone or whatever. Here's all I know. This is how I feel deep in my heart. I want to hear your feelings. I refuse to trust a wireless carrier. I'm not going to do it. It's never going to happen. I don't think they're on night and shining armor. I just think they should be so much better. No, but that's how he's acting. And so when he's acting that way, my instinct. You hear this? He's fired up. Just listen. No, I'm saying that's how he's acting. He's acting like the savior of the wireless industry. But you know who owns T-Mobile? Deutsche Telekom. You know what Deutsche Telekom is? The AT&T of Europe. So the idea that somehow this is all free, that we're going to get, there's a catch here. And the reason that he won't talk to any real journalists in a real interview is because someone's going to find out the cash. Well, it sounds to me like Deutsche Telekom wants to disown the US version of their service and sell it off to SoftBank. So I wouldn't be too sure that he's carrying the message of Deutsche Telekom. Look, here's the thing. His shtick is the things that I say. And I don't believe it from any wireless carrier that they're going to say all the things that I say. Right. Here's the way I see it. Look, I think our job as journalists is to relentlessly advocate for the consumer. That's what we do. The people who watch this program are stupid. Wow. Probably as drunk as we are. I mean, that is really. If you've held on to this for this long. Vergecast viewers, I just want to say, I don't think you're stupid. I don't know what you guys talk about. You're stupid for watching us for 40 hours. He's finished this makers, and that could have something to do with it. You understand what I'm saying. You're my people. If I had a smart Bluetooth earpiece, I'm not really sure. You are so stupidly nerdy that you've held on to this for this long. That's what I meant. You meant stupid for watching the Vergecast. Yes. Watching such bad programming. That's what I meant. I mean, I wouldn't do it. The people watching this, they understand that everything that you do in this industry involves a trade-off, right? And there's a compromise somewhere. That's true. Someone's making money. When we are pushing the idealist version of the industry constantly, and then I hear the industry say what I want, all I think to myself is, how are you cheating me? And that's kind of all I want to ask. Here's what I think about. What is the catch to this? Where's the back end of this plan that you're not telling me about? Because you know what? You did used to work for AT&T. And that's where you learned how to run a business. The reason that Deutsche Telekom asked you to be the CEO of T-Mobile is not because you showed up and you're like, fuck everything. I'm going to run this company in the best way. You have experience running AT&T. I mean, I can tell you're really upset about John Legere and his plans. Listen. I'm really upset about being lied to. Well, we don't know that we're being lied to. It feels like there's a lie. At the end of this tunnel is a lie. All I want to ask. I think the lie is that they have service that's pretty bad in a lot of areas. And the catch here is that the truth is that it's hard for them to sell just being like, hey, we're competing one to one with AT&T because people are like, yeah, my service is really bad with T-Mobile. John Legere says he'll challenge AT&T's fastest network claims with a cease and desist letter. He said he went up. Can you imagine a CEO of any other company standing on stage just being. But FAS is different than having service everywhere. But they're bragging about the quality of their network. Yeah, in some place, right? I think he's just being blustery. I mean, he's just doing what CEOs do. I mean, people get on stage and they talk shit on their competitors. That's just like the name. I mean, hey, look at David Pogue. Got on stage, talked shit on his competitors. That's what people do. You look at Tim Cook. He gets on stage. He makes fun of Windows. He makes fun of Android. But he's saying they have the best network. And here's where our thing is better. At no point are they saying we have the best pricing scheme in an adequate network. They're saying we have the best prices and the best network. Well, I think you should do a deep investigative report and figure out whether his claims are true or not. Now, here's the thing. I'm not a T-Mobile customer. I'm not planning on switching to T-Mobile. Here's what I like. John Legere seems more interesting to watch on stage and says things that sound more in line with my beliefs as a customer than any of the other CEOs that I've listened to. So I'm telling you, I will. Maybe full of shit. I will pay. I have the SIM card in my bag. But I actually think it's somewhat illegal for him to just make stuff up. I mean, he can't just say we have the fastest network. I mean, he can. But at some point, rubber has to hit road, and they have to prove it if he's going to say that continuously. But I'm not saying everything he says is true. I just don't think he's out there lying. OK, well, here it goes. Are you paying for T-Mobile right now? No. I am. But if you went to T-Mobile, what's the worst that's going to happen to you? Wait a minute. The worst he's going to get, he's not going to be happy with this service. Look, I like to have, like, if I'm going to go. It's just you don't have a contract. But here's the thing. He's giving you it out. If I'm going to be critical of all these carriers, I have to pay for them. So AT&T has my iPhone. Yeah, I do. Verizon has my iPad. T-Mobile has my Android phone, whichever one he's using. Which one are you the happiest with? What about Metro PCS? Yeah, what are you doing with Boost? No, there's just the four. What about Sprint? You know, the Sprint. I didn't hear Sprint product in there. Yeah, we have Sprint products in my family. I know a guy who uses, you know, Cellular One, but that's not in business. I got the Cellular One in my family, too. Do you really? Chicago, they're all over the place. So in Vegas, actually, AT&T has been the best. Verizon is just flat. Verizon is a lot of issues. Verizon has been very bad. There are AT&T, like, makeshift towers. Yeah, I'm fairly certain. Yeah, you think Verizon can't roll in makeshift towers? Verizon has been. Honestly, I've been thinking lately of switching to AT&T, because I've had such great experiences with AT&T phones. Let me tell you something. AT&T has been pretty good lately. Can I just ask my question? Not to T-Mobile. Of course. Over there in my bag. What is it? My T-Mobile SIM card. It's there. I'm paying for it. You've been threatening us for a while. I'll give it to you. Will you switch? I don't want it. Why don't you want it? T-Mobile service is really bad in my neighborhood. I'm fine. I typo keyboard. Even for free, I can't give it to you. I'm getting mocked here. Can I give it to you? No, I can't even put it in my phone. I'm not like, guys, go out and get T-Mobile. Change.org position to stop my bullying. I will sign that petition. Please tweet that link at me. You are very angry, and I'm not exactly sure why. I want to talk about 4K TVs. I'd rather be angry about, why not be angry about the people? They're telling me in my ear that we should move on. I just want to be angry about the people who actually. You're not plugged into anything? No, I'm not. I don't understand why. I'm not. I'm not going to get into it. Do you miss us? If you want to spend time. Let me ask you a question. When you left, were you like, fuck yeah? And you were like, out the door. Let me tell you something. If you want to really get angry, you got a perfect target. I still see you all the time. You got a perfect target. AT&T sponsored database. It's like, hey, how are you doing? I'm like, be on the Virgcast. And she's like, oh, that'd be a good idea. And then she shows up, and she's like, why? Are we almost done? How much time? How much time is left? We need to talk about 4K TVs. We got to be here now, right? Are you joking? 48 minutes? That's not that long. I've been yelling at you. How is it possible? That cannot possibly have been 16 minutes ago. I've been yelling at you on a drama show for at least five hours. There's no way this is only 48 minutes. It feels like the longest Virgcast of my life. Probably because you're bullying everybody. Probably because I'm here. OK, anyhow, if we can get out from under the boot heel of Nilay Patel for one second, let's talk about 4K. He's very mad at you. Can I just talk about 4K for a second? Nilay's been proven wrong time and time again. About what? On 4K. But I don't want to rub his nose in the mess that is the 4K industry. But I will say that Kaz Harai, the CEO of Sony, said it's five to seven years to mainstream adoption. Really? Yeah. That doesn't make me happy. Today I had a meeting with LG, and they said, how much would you pay for our 107-inch this? And I was like, $1,000. And they laughed. It was a team from South Korea. How much was it? They wouldn't say. They just were kind of trying to gauge market adoption. They were trying to say, like. Well, you're the wrong person. Till we go. Well, tell me. You should have been like, I live in New York, so. I live in New York. I can't fit in the 107-inch TV in my apartment. Even if I had an endless amount of money, and I was living where I'm living, there's no amount of money that would pay for a TV. I can't get that through the door. Right. You might be able to get it in the door of your, in Brooklyn. It's possible. You know, just living the Brooklyn lifestyle, space, backyard. He said they asked how much you'd pay for it. Birds waking me up every morning. $1,000. I'm in the market for a new TV. Can I make a suggestion? Yes. Don't buy a 105-inch 4K television. It's awesome. Here's an idea. It turns, and it curves. Go get the Vizio $1,000 4K TV. When is that coming out? I read the post, but when is that coming out? When is it coming out, Eli? The Vizio? End of the year. End of the year? Yeah. I can't wait that long. You don't need a new TV that badly. How old is your TV? I bought it when I first started in Gadget five years ago. Have you heard about this new Apple TV that's coming out? I did. Should I wait for that? I would wait. I think it's probably going to happen this year. Do we really? We believe it's in the screen. Well, it's the last thing Gene Munster said about it. It's coming now. Are you tweeting at people right now? You're getting into an argument with people on Twitter about your tirade. I have a lot of people here yelling at me for using a hardware keyboard. They said they were unfollowing me. No, that's not true. That's that Wall Street Journal audience. No. That's what that's like. No, the Wall Street Journal audience would be like, why aren't you using a full-size laptop keyboard to type your messages? No, they'd be like, what's a laptop? Yeah, because they're normal. Why aren't you using a typewriter? Perfect. You know, normals hate. Normals. I know, normals. How would they be like, what is that miniature typewriter you have on that pocket television you're using? The normals prefer to use keyboards. Why is that so funny? I don't know. It's the booze. Yeah, I think probably. Yeah. I don't like it. Normal. I love it. Hey, listen. Now, listen. What did you make? What do you make of Yahoo! Tech? Let's get mad at her for a second. No, we can't. I don't do that to her. I want to hear what you want. No, she just launched a new thing. Oh my god. Look at this. No comment. We just launched a new thing, or she just launched a new thing. They didn't put you on the board. No, they should have had a big picture of me. It should have been like Wall Street Journal, Fidgetle. Fidgetle. Or whatever hilarious punny name. I could be a normal. WSJF. Wall Street Journal. Wall Street Journal. I like the urge. Can we end this? Everything is funny. That's bad for me. I want to talk about the urge. We've only got 49 minutes. I like how John just knew I was looking at him. Wait, no. I want to ask you guys some questions now. OK, go ahead. And it's time for me to ask you a question. Yeah, please do. This is one. OK. Give me that ABC news situation. It's going to be what it's like. This is what she learned from Diane Sawyer, right? That's right. What is your top pick of the show? Really? That's where you want to go? Look, he's answering. You don't have to answer. So I think this show. A different question for you. I'll say this. I think this is an extremely boring CS. I agree. I think this is maybe the most boring CS that I've ever been to. I love it here. No, I mean, there's interesting stuff in the show. And we actually have some really interesting reports that are coming over the next couple of days. That's why I love it here. You love it for reports? No, we have no. Every single person in the industry is over there. Yeah, that's right. Our writers are doing some very interesting stories right now that you guys will see over the next few days. But in terms of announcements, this has been completely underwhelming on every level. I think that Sony's game, the PlayStation Now announcement, is really interesting. I mean, to me, I'm not a person who needs to stream a game on a portable, because I live in a house, and I just play games on my television. And you never leave it. And I never leave it, if at all possible. Speaking of that, what I thought was really interesting is today we got to play around with a telepresence device. Yep. So you never have to leave your house. And I took it out. You'll see more about this tomorrow, hopefully. But I think that's a really interesting concept. We're 10 to 20 years away from it being realized fully. But I think there is a, I'm starting to see this concept of a thing that can be your physical presence. That's crazy. That can be your physical presence in the world without you having to be there. This is like your dream. No, it's actually like, if you put the robotic stuff, like, actually, when you start to think about what was the experience for you when you were? Well, the experience was that I was talking to people out and about. Through what? Were you wearing something? We were doing a thing. No, no, no. I was on a camera, and there was a telepresence bot. You saw through the camera. And I don't want to get into the topic, but I will say that I was having conversations with people where they saw my face. And I was part of this contraption where they were talking to ahead. But did you feel like you were there? There were moments. But what's interesting is that you see how much it melts away. You're thinking about the situation once you're engaged in a conversation and somebody's actually looking face to face. And they feel like they're interacting. Right. It's not like Skype when you're looking at. So I think that's actually an industry that is, I know it's kind of left field based on all the home automation and the wearables, the werewolves, and all that stuff. But this is going to work. But that's interesting to me. And I think that for the second year in a row, I think the Oculus Rift stands out. Oh my god. I tried the new one today. They have a new one. Yeah. Is that the one that's at the Intel booth? The Crystal Cove? I don't think so. Crystal Cove. They have better sensing. Better head tracking. They're running it on Unreal Engine 4 on a faster computer. You tried it today, right? Yeah, I played the thing. We're going to do a video. It's great. But I tried it for just a minute. And I was so embarrassed while I was trying it, because inside the Oculus Rift, it's so awesome. Right. But I was sitting in that chair with a big audience of people who are all lining up to try it. And I knew that all they were looking at was. Yeah, no, no, no. It's crazy. And every person was doing that. You had to go. But people were doing this. Yeah, it's insane. I'll say this. I think that that company. I was playing a game. There's no way to describe it. I was playing a game where I was looking at stuff on a screen like this. And I went like this. And it did that, what you did right now. And it was just the most insane. There's no way to describe that feeling. Like you're wearing goggles, and you can kind of see underneath them. And at one point, I caught a flash of my own hands. And my own hands were disorienting to me. Yeah. And there's no way to explain the feeling of your own head. Because your head was detached from your head. Because my whole brain was somewhere else. And to explain the fact of like, what am I seeing? And it's your body. Yeah. That's the way I felt the first time that we played with it last year at CES. And Addy did an interview with Palmer and Brendan and all the Oculus dudes. And they talk about where they're headed with it. I think they're getting very close to a commercial product. And I think that once they lick, they're licking all of these problems. It's like being able to move your head in certain positions where it's tracking your motion out externally as well as internally. Latency, resolution. They're starting to really lock those in. Especially now they have $75 million. That's really helpful. And John Carmack to make things look good. And John Carmack is like, hey, here's the thing. You know what's funny about that? I don't remember who I was talking about. What is funny about that? They have a killer app problem. Right? That's what my question is. Last year, we all tried this thing on. We named it the best of show. Right? And then a year went by. That's like saying 4K has a killer app problem. No, I actually really disagree. I think it's very similar. I don't. That was like HD. No, I don't know why I would want to play chess. Well, actually HD and 4K have a delivery problem. Yeah, I mean like I. It's like a video game console. You need to have a thing that makes people want to have it for no rational reason. But I can tell you that we're both right. I'm just going to say it. Everyone's right. But the thing with. We all shall hold hands. Go on. I want somebody to sing over there. I know. That means we can lock. Paul Miller. But it's only over here. Can we make it virtual? It goes to Paul Miller. OK. OK. Make your point. Because I really like that. So those are your answers. Those are your answers. I know. No, no, no. I am not finished. I need to ask Neil I an important question now. Well, I just want to say. I'm running the show now. My point about the. I just want to finish. Someone sober should run the show. I'm running the show. No. The thing with the Oculus is we saw it last year. And we were like, this is amazing. It's going to be great, it's a year later. It's a little bit more amazing. I still don't know why I should buy one. What they have with Carmack is the guy who's going to show up and be like, I'm going to make killer apps for your products. And the experiences that you will have in them will be great, because I know how to do that. What 4K doesn't have is, Breaking Bad in 4K is like, whatever. At some point, I'm just going to want it. Because it's the next great thing. I think that. This goes back to what I was saying about cost. So buying a new TV is a cost I will incur every so often. So the next one I buy in five years will be 4K, and then things will look better. And I understand all the costs of that. With the Oculus, it's like, I'm wearing a thing. And I have to have a camera in front of me now. I think the Oculus is a little bit like the Wii, in that when we first heard about the Wii, you were kind of like, I'm not going to stand in my living room and pretend to hit a tennis racket. And I think that once you tried it, and saw what it could do, and that there were things like the tennis game that were really fun to play, or the bowling game that were easy and fun to play, once you had the experience. Connect, too. Yeah, the Connect, exactly. And I think that a lot of people have been like, I don't want to do. I'm not going to be dancing in my living room. And they try it, and they're like, whoa, this is really fun. I think it's an experiential thing. And I think that there will be a killer app. There has to be some, or at least a collection of apps that make people want. But Wii Sports, that was so low cost. Yeah. I should probably just write this down. I should probably publish this story. Write this down right now. No, I've been thinking about this since CS. This CS is the desperate search for the next disruptive thing. Yes, it is. It absolutely is. And that's why there's nothing here. And we want it to be wearable. Because we're fine. And we want it to be. But an Oculus is a wearable. You wear it on your head. And the reason that we're all excited about it is because the payoff for the cost is really great. It's extraordinary, but it's not great enough that I'm going to purchase one. And that's the tipping point, what is happening. I don't know. I just noticed that this shot existed. I look sober. Here's the thing that I want to say. What am I doing? I think you're right that the cost has to be justified in a big way. But I will say that the technology is exciting enough and is getting close enough to really good that I think that is, if they don't blow it somehow, if they don't make some huge misstep, whether it's marketing or they ship a product that isn't quite right or they don't have some really good software to go with it, it doesn't have to necessarily be like, oh my God, the greatest thing ever, but really good entertaining stuff. I think they're going to get there. But I just have to say, I wrote an editorial on the topic you were just talking about. I read that. That was great. That was great. The problem with looking for the disruptive element at a show like CES or at the next Apple event or whatever is that the disruptors don't come on cycles. They really don't. Apple had this thing, the iPhone, and then everything else has been an iteration of that for the last six years. And I mean, not everything, but a lot of what they've done. No, I completely agree with you. I mean, if you look at this show, I'm heatedly agreeing with you. OK, good. But if you look at the show, the show is all about the app. Is this history right now? It does happen. No, we've done this a lot. Actually, heated agreement happens here more often than that. Yeah, heated agreement. Yeah. Huh. Are you kidding? That's like a catchphrase. It's one of our favorites. Heated agreement. No, but if you look at the show, the show is all about phones being so, phone hardware and services and software being so commoditized. These are freezing. Yeah. And they're also glowing orange. It's weird. I know it's sweet potatoes, but it's strange. This is the next beginning. No, but if you look at what's happening in the show, the WebOS TV is, they glued a smartphone to a TV. Yes, exactly. This is a huge commodity. The tablet is a bigger smart. I mean, let's be honest. It does a lot more, but it also is just a bigger version of the smartphone interface. All of the successful tablets are based on smartphone interfaces, and they're almost identical. And now you've got the laptop is a tablet, a.k.a. a smartphone. It's not a laptop. It's not a tablet. Right. The TV is. It's just something that sucks. The TV now has cards. Windows 8, everybody. We made it suck more. That is what excites me about, see, wearables almost in a way are like, your phone has a light, you wearables, your phone has a light sensor, but what if you had a motion sensor on your wrist? It's like, that also in a way is an extension of the smartphone thing. Yeah, they're all, it's a sensory problem. That's the problem with the watch where the Galaxy Gear is like, it's like a smartphone on your wrist. That's the problem. It gives you smartphone notifications on your wrist. What's interesting about the Oculus Rift, this is why it excites me, is it has nothing to do with notifications or apps. Yeah, it has nothing to do with, I get what you're saying. Or user interfaces. It has to do with a physical, visceral experience. And it changes the way you experience things that you're familiar with. And I think that, see, that's where 4K for me breaks down a little bit, where it's like 3D, I kind of get, because it does change your experience in a visceral way. 4K is like a higher quality version of the same experience. You got to go walk the floor and go to Sony. I can't see that curve. I can't see the curve. No, fuck the curve. LG. The trouble with the curve. Oh my god, did you see that photo shot, by the way, of Michael Bay? I think one of our guys did it. Maybe. It's like Michael Bay and it's trouble with the curve. I believe Jordan did that. Was it Jordan? Jordan just did some extreme fist pumping. Jordan's like, no, that was me. Can we get that up, please? I'm sorry. I know it's totally off topic. Look, here's what I'll say to you. I haven't seen it. And this is, Sony has it, and there's a handful of other companies that have it. They have extended dynamic range TVs. Oh, this is the Dolby Vision thing? It's Dolby Vision. So Matt McCray, by the way, it's his 40th birthday today. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, buddy. We were watching Oblivion on one of his new TVs, and it has extended dynamic range. And he's like, watch what's going to happen. There's going to be an explosion, and you're going to feel hot. Oh, that's cool. You're going to feel heat. It's not because the TV is radiating heat at me. It's because that was so incredibly bright. I thought it was because there was heat. No, they weren't blasting heat at me. It was so much brighter than a regular TV. Yeah. In that moment that all of us were like, that's the tooth. No, but what you just described is the toothbrush. What you just described is exactly. That's a gimmick. It's exactly the innovation of the toothbrush, which is like, what if we took, we abstracted this thing and put it over here? But. There it is. Can I relay a story, a moral debate that occurred? Are we in an hour yet? All right, good. I'm so close to having a burger. I'm not hearing anything. I'm so close to having a burger. Go ahead. Let's hear your story. We debated whether, there was a lot of debate about the Michael Bay clip. And we felt bad. Like, at some point you feel bad. You watch it enough times, and you feel bad for the guy. Like, he's obviously just nervous and feels anxious. You don't feel that bad. And eventually I just said, you know who just put this on the internet? Michael Bay. Yeah. It's like he would just, what? What is this? Your fire in your seat to keep warm. I feel heat. I don't get it. I don't understand it. You should go look at, Sony has extended dynamic range. Visio has them. Do you see? I get it now. I'm trying. We should end this. Oh, hold on a second. Neelai, you didn't answer the question. What's your favorite? Yeah, what's your favorite? What's your favorite thing? Besides John Legere. Yeah, please, let's not talk about. Can I get deep? Can I get real deep? I prefer you just work with me. No, I was walking through the Samsung booth today and I came to a realization about Samsung. Yeah. No, I was playing with a Galaxy Tab Pro. They're the biggest curve maker in the world. Yes, that is true. This 12-inch tablet that can run Android apps and run curve apps. I've not thought of that term in a long time. No, and I realized, yes, Samsung has no editors. Actually, that's a good, well. It's a terrible term. It's a great term. OK, it's bad on every level. Let's keep going. We probably should do a roundup of those tomorrow. What was your realization? I mean, I can't believe we've done this whole show with a friend trying to say the right thing. What was your realization? Curve roundup tomorrow. No, it's, you know what? Putting someone on it. Samsung, like, epitomizes CS to me. They have no editor. They're like, we made a TV that can bend this way and that way. It's like, here's a tablet that can run apps and Windows, which no one has ever asked for. Here's a watch. Here's a home theater system you didn't want. And it's great. Samsung is a company that is constantly proving to the world that they can have weird to bad ideas and then turn them into products and sell them. Yeah, but you know, once in a while, one of those bad ideas is a good idea. And they hit. Is this what your favorite thing is, the Samsung booth? No, it's basically just CS. And Samsung epitomizes CS in a way that few other companies here do. They're just trying stuff. And if you remember, like, three years ago, Intel and Microsoft were here just trying stuff. They're just doing weird stuff. And the only company here. What was three years? Three years ago, it was like millions of weird tablets. Are we really going to be spelunking back to three years ago? No, I'm just saying, I'm very familiar with that. I don't remember when they did that weird of a step. Here's what I have. 2011. Ultrabooks? Have you seen as many? Android tablets. Let's say white box. Have you seen as many gigantic Samsung phones here as I have? Yeah. Everyone here is carrying a Note. A lot of people are carrying Samsung phones. Every executive I meet with is carrying a Note, not an iPhone. I think that's wild. And it's because they have gigantic screens. It's because of screen size. It's not, I'm not convinced it's because of software. They don't like the software. They don't like anything. I think that it is. And it's like Samsung just hit on this idea that people want big screens by accident. But they hit on them. Do you want? Oh my god. Do you want some weirdness? Well, this is odd. You have very strong hands. Vlad. I want you to sanitize them after that. I don't ever want to touch anything again. I don't know where these shoes have been. Actually, I know one place they've been. In your sweet hands. I can just burp in clean things. We're done. Whatever. Samsung is CS. CS is Samsung. People do weird shit here, and I love it. So wait. What's your product of the show? The Pebble. What? You say, I had a realization, Samsung. And it's like, 20 minutes later, what's your new product? Well, I like that Pebble watch. No, I had like a weird Samsung moment. So how do you feel about the Galaxy Pro? Why am I touching anything else? I don't know. The Galaxy Pro is just another Samsung tablet. No, the Galaxy Pro is Samsung just curfing Windows Phone. Honestly, I have to say, if there is a person. Curfing twice. If there's a person who's watched this podcast. What did I say earlier? This video podcast. You've made a mistake. If there's a person who's watched this all the way through and was like, I enjoyed that. I'd like to see another one of those. There's so many of them. That person is sick, and they need help. They need the help that only. This is my fault. That only an expert, a mental health expert can provide. And I want them to get it. Is this my fault? OK, that's the Vergecast. Joanna, thank you so much for joining us. I've ruined everything. It was really wonderful to have you. And I have to say, enlightening on several levels. It does not sound like that. We've made a lot of mistakes. We'll be back tomorrow, allegedly, for the, will it be our final Vergecast? Thursday? What do we do? Friday. We do a Friday? No, we don't. No, we don't. Thursday's our final Vergecast. Oh, thank god. Friday, the show basically is over. Michael, do we have any hand sanitizer? Do we do? Yes. Buckets of it. Can I have it right now? Can I have it sooner? Is there french fries that are warm? There's like paint thinner over there. How is it that we have a bucket, like a jar of paint thinner, but not hand sanitizer over there? What about warm french fries? Yes. I love this shot, by the way. I just touched the man's shoes. It's my favorite shot that we have. That's the Vergecast. We'll be back tomorrow with the final CES. It was a high five. You don't want to high five those hands. Surprise five. That was a surprise hit in the head. Thanks for watching. And as always, I wish you and your family the very best, even though they are all going to be brushing their teeth with the Bluetooth. Oh god. Rock and roll. Paul. Paul. Paul. Paul! Paul!