 I'm really excited about this video guys if you believe what Intel tells you you'd think that this core i9 9900k 8 core processor is a 95 watt CPU while if you believe what AMD tells you you'd believe that this Ryzen 7 3800x also 8 core processor is a 105 watt CPU so then clearly if AMD's number is higher and Intel's number is lower That Ryzen CPU. It's gonna run hotter and kick more heat out into your room, right? Actually not necessarily so as it turns out there is no industry standard way that we can all agree on of reporting the power consumption or the TDP of a computer processor so Those numbers that I was talking about before well it turns out It's up to third parties in the media to investigate who is representing their product realistically and who is painting a rosier picture than reality Well So on our table here We've got two benches one for team blue one for team red with our eight core CPUs installed to keep everything equal We're running our memory at the same speed between them, and they're each running a fresh install right yes fresh OS install on a PCI Express Gen 3 drive remember guys Intel doesn't have a consumer PCIe Gen 4 chipset yet now Here's the tricky part Measuring the total thermal energy output of a CPU is not as simple as just Strapping the same cooler onto them running prime 95 and then recording the temperature Because of differences in die size IHS solder quality software reporting accuracy etc It's actually possible for a processor to be outputting more heat while registering a lower temperature or vice versa So what Anthony's been working on is a way to instead? capture as much of the heat from our processors as possible into a known thermal mass Then measure the rise in temperature of our thermal mass Rather than the reported temperature of our CPU now before we can do this we have to prepare a couple of things Normally you'd never insulate the back of your motherboard and its power delivery components That's a great recipe for premature failure But we want as much of the heat going into our thermal mass to be from the CPU as possible, so Sorry motherboard Times two we also need to insulate our mint julep cup here that way we can plot the change in the water's temperature over time Without worrying so much about the heat that we are losing to the surrounding environment through the metal walls of our cup Not all containers have insulated walls like the LTT water bottle Which keeps your drink cold on a hot day LTT store calm Now let's take a look at how we're mounting our thermal capture device to the CPU honestly even compared to zip ties This is gonna be pretty sketchy But we need to make sure that we could see the coolant inside while maintaining the same Mounting pressure on both systems and a weighted piece of glass ticked both of those boxes Now you guys might be wondering if all we need is a thermal mass Why use water why not just put a big hunk of metal with an embedded thermal probe on top of the CPU? And the answer of course is that that's not nearly as much fun to look at enter Thermochromic ink this stuff comes from LCR Hallcrest And it's called chromogen and what it does is once the water reaches 80 degrees Celsius the ink will begin to change color from White to black basically whoever hits that point first is out putting the most heat since this is permanent We'll have to be sure to add the same amount for each run. We didn't bring a syringe So do you want to just pour a cap full? Yeah sure I can try okay sure Give a little mix with our k-type probe that's what those are for right? Yeah, we'll go ahead and don't get cut by the edges of this glass please So we've got Just about 300 milliliters of water in there, and then our ink probably puts us somewhere in the neighborhood of about 325 is about a tablespoon of ink so Let's go ahead and turn on the machine That sounds like an idea Not sure if it's a good idea all right. Let's fire up our thermal probe here 10 degrees so you guys might have noticed that our coolant is pretty chilly That's because we put it in the fridge before we started to make sure we had a little bit of time to boot up the system Before we needed to start the test so the plan is to hit go on blender here at exactly 22 degrees Celsius So I'm gonna go ahead and hit it with with a load here to try and heat up our water a bit, okay? So we ran into a slight problem the instant we fire up any kind of CPU intensive load our processor temperatures go to thermal throttling territory boom which means That we are not getting the full power out of the chip because it's holding itself back We unfortunately selected a stainless steel vessel for our water and dye solution But no worries the good folks at Madrinas have us covered they shipped us these weird camping cups and Alex found one So we are going to Convert this to be our cooler now Do you think it's steel do we have a magnet that won't tell us if it's stainless steel wish us luck So good news and bad news Alex good news is I removed the bottom of the cup the bad news is there is a Whole lot of space in between the one bottom and the other more different bottom cup number two There we go Okay, so After a bit of milling Alex has gotten us this little disc here And as you can see it's got a little bit of a cutout here on the inside and what we can do is just Slot our cup right into that mix this up Put it around the edge and it should be watertight within about 20 minutes. I Never said I was good at arts and crafts. I am measuring out Wait, why is this milky? Oh Wait what it was in the cap So we're back 300 mils of water. Oh, wow, we kind of need more now. So we're back 400 milliliters of water later. We have a slightly larger vessel this time Let's use this cap this time. Let's put on some fresh thermal compound. I see you just cleaned it off Okay, it's a little on the heavy side, which should be okay and Swippity schwampity Does it fit? Please tell me it doesn't interfere with anything. Well, there's only one way to find out. Let's fire this mess up Are we missing anything? Aside from like the probe the glass Yeah, aside from that. No, I just want to know if it thermal throttles Well, we're not gonna have the mounting pressure. That's fine. I can just push on it Show me the blender That looks like good news CPU temperature is actually reasonable 35 is way too high Yep, thermal throttling. I don't think it's making proper contact. That's fine. I can just push on it All right. I sand it off the side. Let's see if it's a Contact error or if we just have a different problem so it looks like It actually is working but we just need a little bit of coolant flow within the container and That dramatically affects our CPU temps and then once it's moving The heat from the CPU causes more convection Yeah, we are turboing to 4.0 4.1 gigahertz across all cores right now So we may be in business. Although I have a new problem That I identified if we actually wait until the coolant reaches 80 degrees No matter which CPU it is. It will have long thermal throttled before then Right, right So I was trying to avoid this but we are just going to do this The simple way with a very short loop. We've got a reservoir a pump and a CPU block No radiator no fans because remember we want our water to absorb the heat and we want to track the changes in temperature over time Now we do introduce the variable of our pump actually giving off some heat into the loop, but given how Significant our CPU is as a heat source. I don't expect it to cause too many problems with that said I predict Lots of things today that weren't going to cause too many problems and yet here we are So are we going to run the reservoir without the cap on yes, why don't we start with 500 mils? That should be a pretty good amount for this loop actually that might be too much 400 mils here we go Ah Crap is it leaking? No, it's just not a lot of water. So that was what 250 mils. It's a cup Well, yes Something went right So let's do a quick Cinebench r20 run our coolant temperature is 16.5 degrees Which means we've still got time We are turboing over 4 gigahertz for about 4.2 and our hottest core is about 51 degrees right now So this is exactly The behavior that we are looking for so we've decided we're going to formally start our graphs Once the CPU hits a hundred percent load and it begins actually Completing the render so that put us at it so somewhere in the neighborhood of around 28 degrees So now all we got to do is strap in and see how long this takes Before it gets hot so it's been about Five minutes of actual render now and we're up to about 43 degrees. We need We need another 35 degrees and then theoretically this will turn black You're pretty sick Unfortunately, we only have about another 25 degrees to go before we thermal throttle so it might go a little slower for that last 10 degrees, yeah What's it currently sitting at? 75 ish. What's the clock? 4.2 4.1 4.2 That's a little high I think it's multi-core enhancement enabled. Oh Well, we were planning to run it twice anyway, weren't we? Yeah. Oh Wait, well, hold on a second We were chit-chatting there and well this color change die sucks because it starts changing colors at like 60 degrees Well, unless it got hotter in the blog So why don't we just ride this out to a hundred degrees when the CPU starts really thermal throttling and then we'll just plot it Yeah So we are on the brink of thermal throttling now our coolant is at 68 degrees Core number two is at 99 degrees. We're actually still running at 3.8 to 3.9 gigahertz. So uh Bad respect for that, I guess but we're gonna have to shut this experiment down pretty quickly of course, though, we would be remiss if we didn't wait until We got another point three degrees on here and then we can let it end So we made yet another observation this time it was that the settings that our CPU was running at weren't really stock and They weren't really multi core enhancement either. What the fuck? Why is this a greater volume of water this time? I could have sworn it was oh wait. Did I say 350 mils last time? I might have missed a hundred mils there Let me put in exactly a hundred mils and see if that makes up the difference No, that weren't it absorb Absorb my pretty this is not gonna be in the video Okay, so a couple rough things happened yesterday. Did this system just hard reset? What? All right, so we learned a lot yesterday We got this cool graph of our water temperature over time and all that good stuff But even just on Intel alone, that's not the complete story because yesterday we were running the default behavior so Intel's stock with multi core enhancement disabled But a multi core enhancement allows your CPU to boost for a longer period of time So for this run here, we have enabled multi core enhancement and we're gonna go ahead and hit it again once we hit 22 degrees Run number two. Here we go. We're turbo into four point seven four point eight ish Seems good. We're not expecting a difference here though We're just expecting it to stay at its maximum turbo frequencies for longer. Come on, baby Five start blending me six seven eight nine There it goes twenty seven point five. Okay, good enough. All right Let's see how she heats up Now this is weird. We're only about a minute into our render and our slowest cores are already sitting at four point one gigahertz That's not very enhancing. Is it no that's like Slightly de hans. It's still I don't remember seeing four point one at this stage of the game last time around No, four point one didn't happen until like I want to say ten minutes in Okay So as you can see our liquid turned dark and that means that this test is done It hit 69 degrees like our last one at about 16 16 and a half minutes for now. It looks like multi core enhancement did nothing more than increase the thermals Weird now, I just need to take my ice water Fill it up and fire it up. We are using XMP. I figure that with AMD CPUs anyway The performance of the CPU and therefore how hot it gets it's gonna be broadly determined by the speed of the RAM So if we use 2133 memory or something like that, it might not be a fair test It's actually a little funny. It's not warming up as fast as the Intel CPU did so at 21.5 I'm gonna stop prime 95 switch back over to blender And then when it hits 22 gonna start it off four point one gigahertz and only 42 degrees on our coolant that seems pretty similar actually similar now that I look at it, yeah But it seems to be tracking a little bit lower a little lower So we're gonna need the full length of our run in order to find out whether or not AMD is actually Outputting less heat here. Okay, so we're almost 11 minutes into our test at this point our water is currently at about 56 degrees celsius Now if we check and see where we were at 11 minutes on our 9700k It was actually 58 so We're still a couple degrees colder. It's starting to look like the the processors are are separating we're at 63 and a half degrees and 15 minutes in Intel was at 66 degrees so It looks like it's It looks like even given AMD's higher rated TDP Their cpu is actually outputting less heat One thing that we probably won't graph just because that wasn't really the point of the video But that we thought was interesting at the end of the test Intel had rendered around 1300 tiles and change whereas even now Almost complete on the AMD side of things. We've done nearly 1900 so That's uh Well, that's that's rough. That's rough. What's our current time at our current time is at 20 minutes and 23 seconds Okay, we're at 67.2 degrees So yes, our AMD processor did output less heat So then why is it that our results seem to differ from what both AMD and Intel stayed on the packaging? The answer is that it comes down to how the two companies measure TDP Intel measures TDP based on recommendations for cooling solutions Assuming the processor will run at its base frequency In other words their number is intended as a guideline that system integrators can use to avoid thermal throttling Not necessarily to allow the cpu to turbo up to its maximum all the time by contrast AMD measures their TDP as the maximum power a processor can draw for a thermally significant period While running a typical load and that might seem like the same thing but thanks to precision boost It's not AMD's Ryzen CPUs will attempt to run at the fastest possible speed at all times similar to a modern GPU and This is where AMD measures their TDP So if Intel were to measure their TDP this way they would actually have to measure it with their turbo boost limiters Disabled which would make it measurably higher now the thing is I Don't think either of us is in a position to propose like an industry-wide way of Standardly measuring TDP. Clearly we're not in that position It'd be nice though What we do know is that having everyone go their own way on this is harmful to consumers Who use this spec as a way to choose between one product and another? So in the long term, hopefully the major players in the industry can come together and standardize on a way of measuring But in the meantime the best advice we can give you is to just ignore it unless you're comparing apples to apples So like within Intel's own product lines and even hopefully the same product families and rely on Independent reviews like our recent video card buyers guide which actually Anthony hosted they should go check that out, right? Yeah, sure heck Yeah, but thanks for watching guys. Hope you enjoyed it See ya