 That means we're on time. Yeah, we're on time. We're always on time. We're never on time You said we're not I think this is literally the first time we're on time. We're not even quite on time. I'm still everyone Yeah, I guess you're not really on camera. No, I'm not I'm not even there the party the show don't start till I walk in So yeah, we're we're not Even where's your little keyboard? I need to change the scene. It's over here here. Okay. I don't remember which ones What oh you you're not even signed in on Twitter anymore what? No, no, that's on that's on no, no, no, don't worry about it. Don't worry about that's on Chrome. See Firefox Oh, here you go. Hey Twitter No, no, you over Twitter questions. No Twitter questions yet Linus do you still use gunner glasses? No, I do not. In fact, I gave them to slick today right I sure did I sure did No Valkyrie07 no, it will not hope. Okay. So who wants who wants slick to shave his horrible disgusting ugly mustache? What there we go. Yeah, who wants them to shave his disgusting mustache on the live stream tonight? It's for Movember I think I'm supposed to keep it till midnight, but if the consensus is yes, then you know what? It's so friggin ugly that I think that everyone will forgive you if you actually just don't And besides I mean an interesting point that I would like to make I think it's interesting because it's my point is that Actually in Canada somewhere else in Canada, it is midnight right now Right. It's not midnight here. No, but I get a real kick out of that because on Twitter I have a lot of people asking me what time it is in Canada to which I have to sort of take a deep breath By the way time zones. Yeah, by the way time zones Canada is like huge. It's like it's like bigger than some continents Actually is Canada bigger than Australia? I think so because Canada is the second largest country and Australia is also technically a country So I believe Canada is actually bigger than Australia Which should be basically all you need to know we have multiple time zones So the time zone like lots of them So the time zone I am in is actually four and a half hours ahead of the time zone That is on the very far East Coast Or like off the East Coast Canada's like on islands and stuff. Yeah, did you know that there's an island in the in Hudson's Bay? That is actually French land like France French really I actually did not know yeah There's like a small island there and like I think they actually have French citizens like living there like France French Yeah, do they have to cross the border to come into them see that I don't actually know I just remember this little factoid coming up when I was in like grade five. In fact, it's possible. They're not even there anymore, but Cool yeah, why don't we start with why don't we start with a little bit more a little bit more Twitter questions Let's have a look at some Twitter questions here. I switched to the thing. Haha. You're not on camera anymore. Anyway It's the Linus tech tips live stream. I can be all like BAM BAM Nah, you're invited BAM you're uninvited Where is slick from slick? Where are you from Canada Canada? Yeah, you can tell from his jacket All Canadians have a jacket like this I was trying to I was trying to do this shoulders are tight. I was trying You know what sizes and everything We're wearing jackets because we're in his garage, which is the new studio and it's kind of cool. Yeah, it's pretty chilly in here It's just over 10 degrees Celsius. So, you know, we're we're trying to keep we're trying to keep baby noises out of the video We're trying to keep our noises away from the baby when he's sleeping So we're in sort of the new studio space, you know what we should do You know what we should do in the live stream right now. Ah, yes Okay, cuz it's still early because the YouTube video is not up yet So lots of people haven't joined yet only the dedicated followers have joined so far Okay, I need you to go operate the camera for a little bit. We're gonna let them we're gonna let the viewers decide What we're gonna hang on the wall and where we're gonna put it actually no We're not gonna let them decide to decide what to hang on the wall because I've already decided that but we're gonna let them decide Where we're gonna put it so I am gonna find This which I want to put on the wall. So this is this is a 68 70 68 yeah Barbets 68 70. Yeah, so this is the this is the video card that was in the first video I ever made that got over a million views. So that was on the NCI expectives channel I did a video review of it where I hooked up like three TVs and I was running them in affinity and it was like awesome and epic and so this should go on the wall of Ridiculously epic stuff. So I'd like you guys to vote Two things number one is do you want to see it sort of up near the top? to represent The the pinnacle of achievement that getting a million views on one video on the YouTube's is or do you want it more on? the bottom with more like You know because it's understated it knows it's cool So it doesn't have to be like shouting from the rooftops about it And then I also want to know if you prefer it on the left or on the right near the axe so so guys this is gonna be on Twitter and I'm gonna go ahead I'm gonna switch to the Twitter feed so you guys can see and Yes looks not really pointing at anything right now. Maybe if I stand And sit here. I don't know what he's pointing at. Oh, it's this one. There we go. Okay, so I'm gonna see what the Twitter's believes is the best thing to do with this particular graphics card And I'm not doing a giveaway Okay, is that a SteelSeries sensei behind you yes it is watching live from the UK. Yes, you are Thank you for getting up so early or staying up so late whichever you did bad cable management behind me Oh, yeah, that's my server. Don't worry uh GTX 680. Yeah, that's good. Hang the axe on the wall the axe is on the wall That's from art van deley, I mean yeah, Costanza It's a nice axe like is awesome You guys are gonna make slick all full of himself Well, not that one guy. What the one guy say oh, yeah, no oh oh find that tweet that was hilarious That was absolutely hilarious. I don't think I'm gonna be able to find the tweet, but I know his name Okay, this guy says left middle to top 45 degrees top and center take the axe off the wall take the take the axe off The wall you kidding me no way that's yeah That's like what if zombies come in the middle of a live stream? And we could not defend ourselves and you guys had to watch us die we can sword in one axe We both need one weapon. Yeah, oh oh find the tweet go get the sword too though Yeah, we need the sword gotta have the sword and the helmet we have the helmet and helmets up there. You can reach it bottom and with the axe Top and center left at top top top center. I'm seeing a lot of votes for top center top center to the left of the axe Yeah, okay got it top center basically near the axe right above the axe. Okay, okay? Yeah, so that's what we're gonna Do we are going to put this graphics card up at the top of the wall? near the axe kind of in the center and I'm really not sure how this is gonna play out because I can't really fit back here right now with this test bench here and Slakes obviously not lifting a finger to help me because I guess what do I even pay you for I can't fit back there You don't pay me to be small. Oh my ankle. Oh, I just I just kicked a hard drive It's all of my ankle and there goes the corsair survivor. That's okay. Don't worry. It'll survive. It's all good. Okay, so Okay, here we go here we go. Oh you have to show them that tweet you have to show them that I gotta find it. I think it was only sent to you. It was only sent to me. I think so didn't you oh, oh, okay? um No, cuz if you search for See that's a stupid thing about Twitter. It's like you can't search. It's ridiculous What do you think like here? Or like down a bit. I don't know leave it. Yeah, yeah, okay So this guys is why I went for a pegboard because I wanted to be able to get these hooks I ordered a bunch more off eBay so that I could just hang stuff on the wall and and have it look kind of like kind of cool and like industrial and I Mean there's no way to use hooks like this without things looking a little bit ghetto Okay, and I'm kind of stuck so are you trying to find the tweeter have we given up? I'm trying to find it. Okay. I don't know if I will do yeah So somehow this live stream will become about computer hardware at some point guys. Don't worry. We're don't worry. We got we got this um Okay, this is gonna look really awkward, but can you come like push against my back? I? Can't put any pressure on it because I'm standing so close to the wall But if I put any force on this then it will push me backwards. Okay, there we go. Okay. Hold on. That's a little hard No, it's not hard For those of you tuning in We are hanging something on the wall and what we're doing right now is 100% necessary Don't don't worry about it. It's okay The safety word is cockroach oh It's not going in Oh, I'm gonna like brace myself there. Okay. Okay, just find a discussion topic or something Well, we could talk about Intel or site. No. No, we should do Intel later. I know when more people have tuned in Yeah, we can talk about no cuz I was one of the ones that I teased on the On the intro video as well, so I don't want to I don't want to use that one yet when none of those people have tuned in yet, oh This is this is really awkward Mind sweeper adventure mode. I didn't tell you what that was. Yeah. Okay So in Windows 8 if you download mind sweeper Windows 8 doesn't actually come with it Why doesn't Windows 8 come with mind sweeper? That's a tradition Yeah, but if you go on the the store you can download it like instantly and it's a tiny little package So it's not really that big of a deal. But a tiny package. I disagree um Oh, yeah, if you download mind sweeper on Windows 8 you can the cameras like pointing way off right now But anyways watching Linus climb out in the back Don't worry about it. Okay It might sweep for adventure mode. Yeah You can then access adventure mode and it's like an RPG version of mine sweeper and how does it have you played it? Yes Okay, you have to it uses mine sweeper mechanics so you can move across the screen and you have to like gather gold and get keys and unlock doors and fight monsters and Travel your way through and like collect items and everything. Are you freaking kidding me? 100% and it moves It moves like left to right instead of mine sweeper where you start anywhere you start on the far left and then you can move to the right and you have to like progress properly and acquire all the Items and then get to the final exit And then you get different scores based on how many the items you get because you can get to the exit without getting like Say all the gold bars, but then you didn't do very well if you just rushed to the exit. So Yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah, it's actually kind of fun. Oh sweet. Yeah, okay. I'll have to try that It's like minecraft mixed with Mine sweeper. I have never actually played minecraft I'm sort of afraid to do it because I Tend to have kind of a kind of an addictive personality Like when I played wow for two months, I played wow for two months Right, right, right And then I was like, oh, I can't do this And I feel like you would just pick some really really grandiose project and not quit until you complete the whole thing Well, my obsessive compulsive disorder would And I don't actually I'm not diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder just for the viewers I'm not mocking it or anything, but it's just it's just like I I can be a little bit OCD about things sometimes Yeah, this is making really bad noises Are you actually going into the wall? I went in at kind of a weird angle. I'm not gonna lie Maybe we should only hang one thing on the live stream Maybe we should just hang one thing on the live stream. What do you think? Probably okay good idea That was my idea, but you know you tried to steal it Yeah, so that did not go as planned Are you good? Yeah, I think I can get down. Do you want to go adjust the camera in the meantime? Yeah So that if I do fall and hurt myself that they won't necessarily get to witness every gory moment of it Oh, no, I'm just gonna make sure that it's all on camera It's funny because someone was saying they were like, oh, what's that table you're using for your set? It's awesome and I Need a new table and that looks really good and it's funny because these are the crappiest tables in the world They weigh about a billion tons. Look if I stand on them, they shake like this Do do do do do like they're not sturdy at all, but they they are like so heavy. They're ancient IKEA like garbage like the the the actual color of these tables is basically like There's another tabletop. It's outside or something But it's like the most horrible color in the world and a spray painted them and I know it's not gonna hold out very well But it's just temporary. So uh Yeah, so yeah, there's nothing special about them. You do not want these tables Okay, slick. Come on back and maybe we'll actually Maybe we'll actually like do a live stream. We should dive right into Intel You know, what's awesome is that they actually can't even see that graphics card that I spent all that time putting out Can you inflate? Andy almost knocked over a light. We're good. What do I even pay you for? I don't know. No, no. It's reflecting. Okay. Hold on. I'll fix it We good? Yep. All right. See always keep a sword handy. Yeah. Oh Yeah, a lot of people have commented on my sword I got it at the Richmond night market It's folded steel. So it's not actually like one of those swords. That's just just totally a replica and totally useless It is sharp. So like If we were fighting right now, I would stand a chance because he's much larger than me It's only half tang so you can see the The pins only go down to here. So it's not a proper. It's like it's not a proper proper sword, but you know I Basically, I basically told the guy I was like, well, I don't care how it looks But I want something that's actually legitimately a sword not something that's like a glorified toy So so this is what he this is what he came up with for me and I was like, okay Yeah, we're done. We're cool. That's good. Anyway, we'll put that aside for now And then the axe has sort of a less interesting story behind it the axe This arm goes up. Wait at the axe the axe I needed to do some yard work and so my dad brought over his tools to help me and then he forgot his axe So I requisitioned it Which is pretty much How I mean who here has ever who here has ever stolen a tool from their dad? It's like when I first started working on computers, I never bought my own screwdrivers, but I had my own screwdrivers Yeah, I mean by the time by the time you're like 30 you probably haven't actually bought any tools yet But your dad's just like why have I bought three Dremels in the last 10 years? I'm sure my dad knows at one point in time I think he just kind of bought another set of screwdrivers and just left because there's this like gray box that has these yellow Handled screwdrivers in them. Yeah, but I've just always kind of had but there are always definitely his yeah I think at one point in time he just gave up and bought his own like another set. Yeah It was really a lot. He can have those whatever it's fine. I Think the thing that my dad eventually gave in and just bought me was a cordless drill Oh, yeah, because I was always always stealing it. You know what for my birth for my last birthday He actually got me a circular saw and the funny thing about that is the one that he got me ended up being DOA and So all this stuff that I've been doing in here like putting together there for those of you who haven't seen it I have a white box now You have a white box now I built myself like some walls and stuff see cool stuff, right? So so my white box was built without the benefit of a circular saw which would have been beneficial Instead I used a jigsaw to cut through stuff. That was like this thick Which I'm very sure it's not supposed to do Not good for it. Probably it's not the best Yeah, yeah, but I mean it was fast and it was better than and the funny thing is I don't have a wood saw But I do have a hacksaw. So I was like, okay, I can either use a hacksaw Metal saw or I can use a jigsaw Neither of which are really this no. No. Yeah. No just no Oh We're in our moustache. That's behind you. All right, let's do some let's do some tweeter So Like you're talking so you turn the mouse off. Yeah. Oh here. Okay Cover him up cover him up. Oh, he's hideous. Are you guys over how hot he is yet? Can we just How do I scroll in this thing? I don't know Yeah, it's like can't figure out how to scroll. It's on a touch mouse. There's no screw wheel and I'm like Scrolling here. Try it again Well here click on the window at least make it the focus window, okay try it again Are you at the top Are you doing that with the keyboard Oh stop pressing the keyboard You're trolling me. Stop Okay That's okay, I'll scroll through them You want to hang the katana I never gave my dad that great Narek screwdriver. It's a flathead and can screw and unscrew everything I have never heard of a Narek screwdriver. Here. Do you want to squeeze over a little bit? Yeah, you're just way too large Yeah, but that's only because of like my buffness You're just tall I Don't like that big anymore because you're closer to the camera Yeah, but you're wearing like the big jacket that you're wearing to overcompensate for whatever it is. It's your jacket Yeah, but I'm not wearing it Hang the katana. Well, no the katana stays in my in my in my living room I'm stop calling Ikea crap Okay, I guess I could stop calling computers computers And I could stop calling grape juice delicious But I'm not going to do either of those things. Well, you have a restaurant the live stream. I'm not sure it depends I mean, she's pretty busy sort of at night And I've been one I don't know which one I can't see that. Oh a test bench our test benches are high-speed PC tech stations And then one of them is some MSI thing, but you want a high-speed PC tech station. Yeah Hey Flip here likes the new setup Flip is the first person who has actually given me any positive feedback on the new setup with the blue wall and or with the red wall the blue thing I I think I tweeted this but I Had someone I had someone's to give me a message on one of my YouTube videos where I was showing off the room Where they were like, oh, yeah, you should switch the colors of the pegboard in the wall That's a lot of work. I was like You understand that red paint like like red red like like this red is like five coats, right? Like yeah, not a lot of work not what happening at all Pardon my franglai Where do you get your okay? What's the difference between a monitor and a TV besides the TV tuner and inputs? That's a good question. What is the difference between a monitor and a TV slick? It's a higher quality water What yeah, we mean higher quality. Well, the pixel density is higher. Yeah But usually you get way less latency pixel densities usually way higher Yeah, but I don't think the less latency is a quality issue because TVs have more complicated processors. Yeah in order to am but for what you're using it for oh So what you mean is why should a computer user not use a TV? Because I remember there was one guy that I used to go to the same LAN parties as me who actually had like a 37 inch TV that he was using for his monitor. Yeah, and So yeah, okay fine from from a PC application sort of perspective Input lag is much higher on TV. They do way more processing on the image because they have to be able to Just juice up the colors and make it look more better as opposed to more faster Pixel density is very very low because I mean a 30 inch monitor is going to be 2560 by 1600 and a 30 inch TV will be Probably 720p probably usually there. Yeah, like so I mean you might be able to get like a 30 something higher at 1080p, but even then that's much lower density I'm not very fluent in TVs at all, but the lowest one. I've seen this 1080p was 36 most TVs aren't TN though So if we were going to compare to cheap monitors Then so yeah, they're so so a TV will be cheaper higher input lag Probably better colors unless it's a super cheap TV And you're buying like you'd be pretty crazy to manufacture a TNT V because the TV would be like 10 feet away And people would be like oh, I move my head here. Oh can't see it And people window shop TVs hardcore walking to Best Buy or wherever the heck you want to go And then they see them on the wall and then pick one. It's usually how they do it So you need to like have a good picture quality reflex. Yes, you can reuse a hard drive with Windows 7 on a new PC Joel says I'm in need of a new PC, but don't know how to afford it. I'm only 12 Joel you're gonna have to wait a bit What did you have for a computer when you were 12? The one my dad built Like you but it was yours? No, no, no, okay What did you have for your own computer when you did not have my own view? I did it was a Pentium 166 megahertz I'm actually trying to remember when I built my computer. Maybe it was new that Okay, well I didn't have my own computer till I was 16 that was like legit I saved for like and had onboard video Nice Yeah, nice. Yeah I saved for like two or three years. GeForce 4 MX baby. That's a ball. I thought it was a way That was quite a bit before my time actually. Yeah Build a gaming rig for a friend. Should I use Windows 7 or Windows 8? Can you move the window over a little bit so we don't have that gray bar? Why thank you sir. Build a gaming rig for a friend Windows 7 or Windows 8 what do you think? Um if you want to get Windows 8 just download them the Windows 8 start bar thing There's like a million different programs that do it now. We had we had we made a video a while ago about NineEight So if you're building on the computer if you want to run NineEight to install all the default programs One of the things in NineEight now is Windows 8 classic start menu. Oh, okay. So like Yeah, so just get her done. Yeah, I mean Windows 8 is Lower is less resource intensive it boots and resumes and sleeps faster Um, it'll obviously get more support in the longer run. Did you hear about the whole Windows blue thing? No, oh So Windows 8 it this is this is sort of semi-rumor. I don't know how confirmed it is But I was I was just reading about it. So um, you know how OS 10 the branding hasn't actually changed in years. Yeah They just kind of go back and forth and then they just go back and forth and then they go back and forth Yeah, they just kind of go 10 point whatever and then it's a new OS, but it's not that new like they're just making tweaks as they go So what I heard is that Windows 8 is actually going to be the last like like for a while iteration It'll be Windows 8 and then it'll be every year They'll do a small update at a low cost like you know how like Apple only charges 20 bucks for the next iteration of their OS and I mean, what do you think? So it's gonna be Windows blue now, and then they're just gonna change the colors. No it'll be Windows 8 Yeah, I think that's like an internal code name or something. I'm not a hundred percent sure Okay, I'm not that great with Apple, but don't they change like the animal? Yeah, but it's OS 10, Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion, Tiger So for differentiation reasons. Kitty. Pussy. That one's pink. That's a cat. They should have some naming convention to help it along Okay, but it could be like blue and then orange and then yellow or something like I don't know I just heard this blue thing and then I was like so That's kind of cool. I'm actually down with that. Are they just copying Apple or is it this like them and me? No, that's what everyone does now. Mobile devices, everything. They're bigger steps, but there's always little steps in between and like on a mobile device you don't pay for it. You just give it free. So it's not necessarily copying if it's the future. So you just think the concept of the OS is just changing and Microsoft should just get used to giving away Windows and giving away Office. They better sell a lot of Xboxes. Yeah, and Surface. And like a lot of like paid SkyDrive accounts. Yeah, well like it's still charged for like Windows, but it's gonna be cheaper. I think it's gonna have to be cheaper. This is the most homoerotic livestream yet. Now take off your shirts. Do you want to do it? No. You sure? Yes. Is it because it's cold in here and your nipples will be all like? Personally. Okay. But definitely not completely. I have this coffee for the whole livestream. Yes! I play Minecraft. Don't unsub. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, one of us plays Minecraft. It's all good. Good enough. Humble Indie Bundle. Yes. Oh yeah, the new Humble Bundle. I guess this one's not Indie. Yeah, THQ. It's Humble THQ Bundle. Yeah. So if you guys don't know about it already, there's a new Humble Bundle. It's a bunch of like legit THQ games. What all do they have in there? It's Company Hero. Okay, if you pay above the average, you get Slick's Row the third. Slick's Row? Saints Row the third. See, I told you guys. You boost this guy's ego up and up. He's going to think that he's some kind of like game star. Next thing it's going to be like, you know, slick PC, blood on the sand, and you're going to be all like with a bandana and like thug life. Is that 50 Cent thing? Yeah, that's that 50 Cent thing. Or like you'll be like remaking it like two years later, like Chronicles of Riddick. I liked Chronicles of Riddick actually. Did you like the first one or the second one? Pitch Black? I don't know. Pitch Black was really good. Pitch Black was like the first one. Pitch Black wasn't Chronicles of Riddick though. I think it was just Pitch Black, and I think the next one was Chronicles of Riddick. Whatever. Saints Row the third is if you pay above the average. When I got it, the average was $5.40. Going to play higher now though. Is it? I think it's like 12 bucks now. Really? Even then it's a good deal. I think that's the biggest they've ever had it for a Humble Bundle. Yeah, but it's also like A plus titles. Oh no, I know, I know. Triple A titles. Yeah guys, check it out. Just Google Humble Bundle if you haven't heard of it before. It's really, really awesome. Darksiders 1 is in it. Company Heroes with the DLCs is in it. And then I think something else, but this is all off the top of my head and I don't really remember. Is Metro 2033 in it? Yes. Yeah, Metro 2033 is in it. Safety word cockroach. Well, yes. It's even better because it has the word encroach in it. Yeah. Because you're encroaching on my personal space. Yep, that's exactly right. Alpaclary asks, how does Twitch not kick you for not streaming games? Because they don't. Stop. Yikes. Can you even lift that axe? Get real like slick. Oh wow. This guy is drinking the haterade, this Nishant guy right here. Not as much as the guy that hates me. And I can lift that axe, I'll have you know. I can lift the axe. I put it up there. I didn't have slick do it for me. Nope. Alright, clarification. Okay, slick here. Are you like a super fan of Assassin's Creed? I freaking love Assassin's Creed. My favorite game series is The Elder Scrolls. But Assassin's Creed is probably my second favorite game series. Really? Yeah. Because Final Fantasy is my favorite. Haven't you only played one? No, I've played lots of them. Oh, I thought you'd only played six. No, I played through most of the first one, but it was kind of tough. Like actual number one or like? Actual number one. I beat five, I beat six, I beat seven. I made it like ten minutes into eight and I was like this is ridiculous. Eight was the first one I played. Eight was stupid. So I was like this is sweet and then I played other ones. I was like oh. I made it all the way through nine. I think ten is the one with Zidane and Wakka and whatnot. I get them all the time. I made it all the way through ten. I made it all the way through two. I made it all the way through three. Four I think was just rubbish if I recall correctly. So I've played most of them, but honestly guys I was trying to play... I'm going to have to find out which one it is, but it was just terrible. I love how they do it now. They got tired of... I know they're continuing the storyline, but it seems like they just got tired of making more numbers. So now they just add a dash and then another number. 13 threes. I heard one of my friends at school talking about 13 threes today. It's like come on. Like at what point are we just going to... Like they'll start doing it by seasons. Yeah. I was actually thinking the other day they should release a game that's structured like a TV show. So you buy the game for like 20 bucks and then once a week you get more content. Well it's called Episodic Gaming and Valve tried to do it. Where is episode three? Oh, well yeah. But they don't release it every week. They release it every like 30 years. Valve time week. Exactly. Yeah. Valve time week. Oh Valve. Google Valve time if you're interested. Yeah Valve time is the funniest thing ever. I'm sure everyone watching this has heard of Valve time before though. We only have 1600 people on the stream. You guys should tell all of your friends to join the stream because it's awesome. Joshua, great question. What is your favourite mouse that is still in production? Because a lot of people ask me what mouse I use. I tell them I carry laser and they can't have one because it's discontinued. G9X is awesome. Get a G9X because everything else is just sort of totally a waste. You know what kills me? Oh, and we're echoing big time. What? Why would we be echoing? No one else has complained about it yet. I don't know. I don't think you have the stream open in another window. No I don't. Both of our browsers are up. Yeah. Oh it's probably just because of the garage. Guys the mic is a little bit further away from us so there's not really a whole lot we can do. There's going to be a little bit of echo. My foam strategy is not really doing anything. And it's not covering the whole ceiling yet. And it's not covering the room yet. I have to cover that wall and I have to cover the ceiling. Yeah, bear with us guys. Bear with us. Apparently I got the average totally wrong for the Humble Bundle. It's usually right around six bucks. Great deal. Oh, oh, check this out. Get rid of Slick. What a meanie. Yeah. Slick you're fired. Ugh. Um. Why don't you put the Twitter feed above your heads? I like to see you and Slick interact and covering him up. I thought it helped. I mean here, try it. It's like when they have to do the eye test. It's like better, worse. Better, worse. And then you like pick which one is better. I'd love to hear what you guys think. Okay, so here. You find a topic. I have to go log into my email where I archived all of the topics. Well, should we just talk about Intel? Uh, sure. It's probably covering Intel. Yeah, let's do that one. Let's do that one. Okay. So go ahead. I'm listening. Uh, Intel with Broadwell is going to be releasing BGA socket. BGA socket is going to be soldered in so it's not swappable. Apparently this will only be replacing the tier of processors around like the 1155 tier, not the 2011 tier. So you'll still have like the expensive tier of processors. Workstation. It'll probably overlap with the server socket in all likelihood. I can't see them going to three sockets. No, no, I seriously don't. I can't imagine why AMD is using three sockets. Anyway, sorry, sorry. Like moving right along. So go ahead. Um, yeah. That's what it is. What are your thoughts? I'm not happy because I come from more of the value oriented series of things. Okay. Because most of the computers that I have built have been on a pretty tight budget. And I know you're going to bring up how many times do you swap your processor. Oh, that's coming. That's coming for you like this. But I actually totally agree. You totally agree with what? I think it sucks because I want to have more choices. I don't think it sucks because I want to change my processor all that often because I can't actually think of a time when myself or most, not all of my friends, most have decided that they want to change their processor before a newer and better architecture has come out that they wanted to upgrade to anyway. So they had to buy a new motherboard. All right. I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here. And I'm going to give you all the reasons why Intel and the industry might want to do this. I don't care what they want to do. No, no. All the reasons why it might be justified. OK, OK. First of all, OK, why don't we do why Intel wants to do it? So Intel wants to take as much control of the experience as possible. We've seen this over the last few years. They integrated a memory controller. They integrated a PCI Express interface. They integrated GPU. They're integrating more and more and more and more onto the CPU itself. So what is this doing? It's taking differentiation away from the board partners because it used to be like it wasn't that long ago that you could differentiate your board based on how great of a memory overclocker it was. Like OCZ had like the coolest thing ever. It was like it was called the DDR booster. Do you know about this? No, no. Oh, the DDR booster is amazing. OK, so it fit in a dim slot and it worked with certain boards where you could just crank the bejesus out of the voltage to your memory. So guys were using BH5s back then. So this was like a legendary windbond BH5 chips to just crank way too much voltage, like doubling the voltage of their memory. And that was resulting in tangible performance gains. And part of the reason for that was because the motherboard designers actually had to optimize the timings internally within the north bridge and the way it communicated with the CPU, the way it communicated with the memory. A motherboard was actually in some ways way more complicated five years ago, eight years ago than it is now. And important. Now it doesn't do almost anything. There isn't even a PCIe controller on an entry level board. Think about that for a minute. What is it even doing in there that requires a high speed interconnect? Thunderbolts and off chip, separate chip. USB 3 is built into the chipset, but I mean, okay, so it's five gigabit per second total across all the ports. So it's not like this is a super. So we still got SATA and SATA. I mean, like, are we at the end of SATA? What's the new one that's coming? Something Express or something, right? I don't remember the name of it, but yeah, I don't think SATA is developing anymore. Yeah, SATA I think is just done. Yeah. So SATA, I mean, ultimately that's probably going to go on chip because if it's going to be any faster than sort of SATA USB 3, they're going to have to move it on chip. Okay, so Intel is taking more and more of the ecosystem and they're putting it into the chip. This does a few different things. So it saves on cost. It saves on complexity and drives up margins theoretically for everyone, but in practice mostly for Intel. Mostly for Intel, yeah. Mostly for Intel. The other thing that I thought was fascinating is because of AMD's complacency or lack of execution or whatever else you want to call it, Intel has been spending so much less on die area for the actual CPU portion. If you compare the die size of an Intel Core i5 3570K to what would be the most equivalent AMD chip, something like an FX8350 where they're equivalent in terms of their actual real world performance, I don't remember the exact size difference, but Intel is spending less than half on the actual CPU logic portion compared to what AMD. That means the actual cost of that chip is less than half. Well, they've been able to just sit there with all their R&D time that they just don't really have to utilize lately and just spend it on like, okay, let's save money. Right. Let's make it smaller and smaller and smaller. It's like Kepler, how Kepler is a much smaller physically GPU than Fermi was. With their little like plastic extension on the end. So right, so Intel is because they don't have to keep pushing die sizes in order to get more performance because no one's biting at their heels. They're bringing more and more on board. So this is a natural extension. So now what Intel is going to do, and it aligns with corporate branding as well, because just like something like Ultrabook, they can go, okay, this is a Core i7 platform. If you want a Core i7, you're going to get, you know, SLI and Crossfire and, you know, 16x PCIe. You're going to get Thunderbolt. You're going to get blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it comes with this CPU. So they generate a very consistent experience. And from a branding perspective, it's much easier. So the parts where I'm okay. So that's why all this is happening. It's lower cost. It's more integrated. It's easier to control. It takes more of the value and more of the branding and puts it on Intel and takes it away from the guys producing motherboards. So here I'm going to start to advocate for why it's a good idea. Okay. Lower costs will ultimately benefit the consumer at some point. You can be as cynical as you want about it. But at the end of the day, how much did a computer cost 20 years ago? Yeah. Miniaturization has come for us. We have benefited from process shrinks and from lowering bond costs. So maybe your desktop gaming computer actually isn't going to go down in price much between now and the next five years. But the computer that sits in the dash of your car and the computer that sits in the back of your TV and all those computers that will now be all over the place will be a better value. So overall, it will come for you. You will get a better value out of all of these, out of this tighter integration. Okay. Number two, I actually inherently trust Intel to deliver a consistent experience. If I buy an Intel motherboard, I don't expect it to overclock like Sting. I don't expect it to necessarily have all the best features, but I expect it to work. Yeah. It'll work. It'll do what it said it'd do. Because they will always follow the code. Yes. They will make a standard that they know works and they will follow it. They will follow it. Yeah. To the letter. For better or for worse. Usually for better. Yeah. If I buy an Intel SSD, I expect it will work. I mean, same thing. Like for my server machine, you see an agility hanging out of it right now. That's not what I'll actually be running the OS off of. It's an old X25M because I'd rather use that. So from a consumer standpoint, I'm looking at it going, okay, well, yeah, that's fine. Okay. So next is let's talk performance. Do you need more performance than a 3770K? Yeah. What for? Higher end stuff. Not gaming. Not gaming. Okay. So then you should be buying a professional platform. Yeah. Okay. So for most of your friends who want to play Black Ops 2 or whatever game that isn't rubbish, new Elder Scrolls game, whatever else, have we reached a point where the CPU is really, really not holding back the gaming experience? I think what's more holding back the gaming experience is consoles. Well, yes. And I think graphics cards are going to be holding it back very, very soon. Yeah, and hard pushing engines and graphics cards and whatnot. And 4K. And 4K. 4K is going to just crush, whatever graphics card you have right now, 4K is going to crush it. Yeah. Even modern games today, if you were going to try and run them at 4K, it will just destroy them. Like just crush them. They don't have enough RAM. They don't have enough horsepower. It's going to crush them. So if we're expecting CryEngine 3 to bring a completely new level of graphical quality, and then we're expecting to run it at 4K resolution, and then we've got Nvidia spending half as much on die size for their high end card as they did a generation ago, and delivering incremental generational upgrades on a longer and longer cycle because they have less and less pressure from AMD, I'm actually sort of worried. Because we're going to want 4K 3D, which means we're going to have to push 120 FPS at four times the average res. I think if when 4K gets more popular, I think even if... This is going to be really pressured by ATI. Well, AMD. Have you seen AMD's stock price? Have you seen how much cash they have left? Yeah, but the graphics cards are still pushing pretty damn hard. Not profitably. I mean, again, AMD is another great example. On the graphics cards, I think their die is like 30, 40, 50% bigger than Nvidia's die. Yeah. So, in terms of any... from a business standpoint, trouble. Yeah, I don't know, but they will be pressured by what the consumers need, though. But do the consumers need it? But you just said 4K. I need it. 4K gaming. But, I mean, graphics card sales, like if you look at the market numbers, are going like this. And it's funny because everyone wants to talk about PC gaming's alive, PC gaming's alive, PC gaming is alive, but it's not... Well, because of what we just said, though. Nothing pushes it. Plants vs. Zombies, World of Warcraft, that is PC gaming now. Yeah. So no one needs a GTX 680 for that. But even like brand new high-end shooters, it doesn't matter because they're all running terrible engines that don't matter. Yes. CryEngine will hopefully push it, and 4K will hopefully push it so people will actually care about buying a new graphics card. It'll have been a long time. It will. I think the last time I think people were really passionate and driven to buy a new graphics card was 8800 series in Crysis. Yeah. I mean, it's still there, the old thing. But can it run Crysis? Still matters. It still matters. Which is ridiculous, but true. Okay, but I would argue that as soon as all of these limitations hit us, CPU actually won't be that important. Because GPU will remain better for things like physics calculations, whether it's using OpenCL or PhysX or CUDA or whatever else. And the CPU will be more than enough. So you're going to manage, sit there and manage. Yeah. It's just going to sit there and manage. So okay. So I would argue that for 98% of people, we actually don't need more performance than we have today. Go ahead, keep shrinking it. Staple them all together. Save power. Okay. You sound like that guy that said we don't need more than 56 kilobytes of RAM. That's a misquote, by the way. He apparently never said that. Someone said that. Not Bill Gates. Oh, it wasn't Bill Gates. Okay. Okay. So the next one, the next one from my side is... We won't need it now. We will need it at some point. Okay. The next one from my side is, is more choice good for the consumer? Why would it be bad for the consumer? Because consumers often don't know what they're doing. Do you know how many systems I've seen come across my desk where I'm like, really? Yeah, but it's still nice to have choice. Why? How? Okay. Okay. Here. Choice always drives competition. Okay, but those, you know, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, Asrock, well, maybe Asrock to a lesser extent, if they get acquired, but... Those guys are always going to be competing anyway. You'll still have choice, but you won't be able to make the wrong choice. You won't be able to make a bad choice. Right. Because someone will validate at some level that that's not a completely ridiculous configuration. And for you, the enthusiast, I believe it doesn't matter because you would have bought a Saber Tooth and a 3570K anyway. Like if Asus, literally, think about this. If Asus soldered a 3570K to the Saber Tooth, would it bother you? No, that's a huge amount of builds. But still, it's still nice. What do you mean, but still? I don't know. I still want the option to put it in myself. If you needed Thunderbolt, would it bother you that much to spend an extra $100 overall on the platform? You already have to spend like an extra $80 on the motherboard. That's right. So the more integrated it gets... Yeah. So if you needed a premium feature like Thunderbolt, does it bother you that you have to buy an i7? No. Okay. Not really. So those are my three points. So point number one is ultimately the cost savings will come to the consumer. The main reason why I don't like it is the more that this... I don't want this to be the person who kicks the ball and it just continues to roll down the hill. I don't want everything to just be like, oh, I bought a motherboard. I now have a computer. I don't want that to happen. Why not? It'll be cheaper. But that's so lame and that will destroy why we're here right now. It'll be fast enough. We can talk about which motherboard is the best and... We'll have one product to talk about. And it'll be a saber tooth with a 3570K. Is that such a bad thing? I don't know. I mean, okay, look, here, think about it this way. Do you want the PC to succeed? Yeah. Okay. What do you see Apple doing? Their profit last quarter was more than most of the rest of the entire PC industry all put together. Yeah, but that's a specific statistic and I can throw a billion more. Okay, but I think we can agree that they got there with simplicity. Yeah. By bundling things together. I mean, honestly, I think the fact that Apple now has iPhone 5, iPhone 4S, and iPhone 4 at three different price points is a huge stumble compared to what's made them so powerful. Because their whole thing was this is the phone. This is the only phone you need. By this phone, nothing else matters. That's been their whole thing. If you want a desktop computer, buy an iMac. There's not many configurations. Don't worry. It's what you need. That's been their whole thing. And so if the PC is going to gain traction with the mainstream consumers, why did we lose all these gamers to consoles? Because they bought one thing and it ran everything they needed. Yeah. How do we get them back? I don't know. So there. I don't necessarily, just to disclaim this guys, I don't necessarily believe this is the best thing ever. But that was my devil's advocate sort of here's why it's happening. I think it sucks because losing, like I think it's good because when you're building a computer for your buddy who doesn't care, or when you're building a computer for your mom, or your friends like, oh, I want to come play Star Citizen with you guys when it's released. And you're like, all right, man, I'll build you this. Like, whatever. No big deal. I'll build you an i7 Asus. Yeah. And it'll have everything he needs. Yeah. But then when I'm building a computer for myself, I want to be able to pick everything. Pony up. I know. And that's the thing at the same time. But then when like 16 year old me or 16 year old dude that messages me on Twitter is like, I'm super into computers. I love it. I want to build one. I'm going to have to be like, yo, get this kind of cop out prebuilt thing because that's what it's going to be. I was prebuilt systems. But it'll be a better value for him. I mean, it's the same thing as it is with 1155 and 2011 today. 1155 for 99% of people will perform better. Yeah. Unless you're a high end video editor, graphic designer, whatever else. For your mom and your dad and your brother and yourself, 1155 literally performs better because it's mainstream enough that the economies of scale allow them to push the performance, to cycle the technology faster. They can recoup their R&D investment faster and create a new chip and cycle it, cycle it, cycle it. Whereas with 2011, because it's so niche, they have to have a longer cycle. That's just the way it works. It could be good because maybe more people will buy that level. So it'll become less niche. So the cycles will go faster. But then I just don't. We'll replace the console. Yeah, I freaking hope so. But like, I don't really see that happening because like the bro aspect of consoles is not going to go away. No, seriously though. And I just, like I said earlier, I don't want it to just be the first kick that starts the ball rolling. Okay, would a more standardized PC platform make for a better experience even for yourself? Remember the first time, oh no, that was, that was diesel, never mind. Okay. Okay. What if things were so standard that Windows was able to come with your USB 3 driver? It already does. Windows 8 does. Okay, Windows 8 does. Fine. Whatever the new thing is then. Whatever some new thing is that comes out, what if because it was... But is that their plan with their little mini development? The more integrated things we'll get, the more integrated things we'll be. You know what I mean? Is that Microsoft's plan with their mini drops, mini operating system drops? Oh potentially. I don't know. Like I only know what I said about that one before so I'm not exactly sure. But will a more integrated experience be bad? I don't think so. I just think it'll suck for the super, super techie custom builder guys. Yeah. Who we are trying to talk to. Yeah. But it'll drive down overhead at a retailer perspective at a system builder perspective. For like a huge global perspective it's probably better. For like me, I don't like it as much. Right. Okay. Well there you go guys. I hope we actually haven't been looking at any tweets or any Twitch chat so I hope you guys haven't been just kind of sitting there complaining that this is super boring. And... Yeah. What Eddie said. Well you have to show them what Eddie said. Geez. So Eddie says he doesn't... You know what? Yeah. Let's take some of your comments on this discussion topic because I think this is really important for the industry in general and for every enthusiast. Whether you want to take sort of my devil's advocate side or whether you want to take slick side I mean quite frankly... Here actually a little bit more. Quite frankly my computer is an LGA 2011 not because it performs better for what I do because it doesn't. If I really wanted the best performance possible I'd get a 3770K just like everyone else. But because I wanted the baller platform. I wanted the flexibility to put in as much RAM as I wanted. I wanted to have all those PCI Express lanes just in case I decide I'm going to put a 10 gigabit NIC in there and a RAID card and a graphics card and a sound card and I wanted them all to have as much bandwidth as they possibly could. So the enthusiast in me actually is mortified by all this. But we have to look at it from sort of a wider perspective than just our tunnel vision. But then for our individual opinions we don't necessarily have to because this is what we think of it. But that doesn't make for a very interesting discussion because you'd basically say Broadwool is going to suck ass and then I'd say alright. Yeah. Cheers Bob. Yeah. I don't know Kyle brings up a good point but I did bring this up earlier. Yeah Kyle as a computer salesman I'd like to voice my opinion on the choice versus no somehow ask Slick. Slick isn't even a computer salesman. I'm more of a computer salesman than him. How? Because I actually worked as a computer salesman for six months. So did I. I worked as a computer salesman for like almost a year. You were at Best Buy. True. Yeah. I was at NCIX. I got people to buy not terrible computers. I actually directed some people to NCIX as well. Probably shouldn't have said on here but oh well. Cover me up. Good job. Okay then. No but choice is always good though. I agree with him. No I disagree. Sometimes choice is destructive. Sometimes choice is actually bad because choice leads people to buy dumb crap. Like eventually buy a Mac. That doesn't work. Because they screw up and buy some supercomputer. That's right. But then people should be like intelligent and figure out that if they spent $400 on a computer and it didn't work for them that buying a $2000 Mac is not actually the right logical process. You own a Pontiac. Yeah. Because I don't have that much money in general. And it works. It gets me from point A to point B. So then if you had more money to spend on a car would you buy a Mercedes? Or maybe just something better. Honda. I don't know. Not a Pontiac. I wouldn't buy a Mercedes. Okay I forget where I was going with that. Hold on. No I was going somewhere with that. The point was um. Shoot. What were we talking about? I don't know. But apparently this guy thinks this topic is terrible and doesn't care about Intel processors. Uh. You know what? Hold on. I'm trying to. You're distracting me now. Trying to figure out what I was trying to say with the Pontiac thing. You just don't like my car. It's just fun. I really don't. I totally hate your car. It's stupid. It's horrible. I like my car. It's cheap. Computer salesman and then we moved on to something something. The car. Right right right. Too much choice is bad. Oh. Because it generates bad customer experiences. But then they should just have better salesmen. Yeah. Have you met any salesmen? Where are you going to find better salesmen? That's like saying they should have like. They should have. I don't know what that's like saying. Do some form of training. Training is not the be all and end all. But they should have some form of it. How much training is there? Okay. But how much training can you do when there's. Okay. Here. I'm going to buy an MSI and a SUSE alone. And that's your like your one two three. How many Z77 boards do you think there are? Oh a ridiculous amount. But you should have like. At least 30. Like NCIX should have all their employees on a mailing list. And when something new comes out. There should be like you or someone else should check it out. And then tell them. And they're going to remember that. I mean think about the way it worked at Best Buy with something like an extended service plan. Where they had a sheet of paper and they could refer to things. Imagine if you had to put every motherboard and video card on that sheet of paper. They would need like a microscope to read it. And sometimes the differences between all these motherboards are actually very difficult to figure out. That's true. You've run into this. Why is this one even more expensive? Yeah. And you can't tell. You literally can't tell. So that doesn't even include ASRock, Biostar, ECS, EVGA. Why do we need this much choice for Z77 motherboards? We established earlier on in the stream that they all perform exactly the same. I still like choice. I still want to be able to pick what I want. Every single time. Personally. You might think it's bad for some random person. But again I'm pulling it back and saying that I'm answering this question on behalf of me. And not be on behalf of that random person. Alright. Whereas I'm taking the every man's approach to this. Because I can figure out what motherboard I need. Yeah. And I want to be able to figure out what motherboard I need. But based on how many people tweet me asking what motherboard to buy. It's hard. And if you weren't following it and keeping up with it. But does that mean they don't want to? It might be difficult but they might also enjoy it. Umm. Yeah. I mean I do. So I can't say that no one does. But I just don't think it's that likely. Are we going to get a heater for the garage? No we're not. Because heat is expensive. And he's just not worth it. I'm going to bring my own jacket at some point in time. So I don't have to. That is an awesome jacket. What's wrong with you? It's also like army camo green and the sleeves aren't long enough. It's DigiCAN. It goes along with our high tech overall experience that we've got going on here. It's digital. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. The people who care about the change don't care about the best value. If it takes some of the fun out of building. Yeah. I understand that. The topic is terrible. What is Linus saying? He wants to get rid of his entire job. It won't get rid of my job at all. I mean NCIX will still sell tech stuff. There will still be tech stuff. Because remember we're talking about how all this ease of manufacture and all this simplicity is going to turn the computer into something where like a great example is something like the expensive camera we just bought. Why isn't it running an Android operating system with a powerful quad core processor in it? Why isn't it running a Windows 8 operating system with a next generation or three generations away core i3 in it? That would be awesome. I mean compared to the kinds of garbage processors they're using in things like cameras today. I mean imagine if we could put a PC processor in there. The amount of flexibility. I mean we could start writing custom firmwares for cameras and stuff. But then why don't they just do three sockets? Would it really cost that much more? Yes. A socket costs a fortune. Intel is balling though. I know but why would they waste? You don't get balling by wasting money. Yeah I know. A socket costs a fortune. And validation and the ecosystem you have to build around it. But if they move into all those other devices I'm sure they're making their money. Well yeah they're making their money but they're making their money by keeping everything BGA. Solder it on. Solder it on. Solder it on. Solder it on. And like what's to stop them from, we probably shouldn't talk about this topic for literally ever, but what's to stop them from doing it to 2011 at some point or whatever 2011 or 2002? Oh they probably will. But we're like 5, 10, 20 years away from that. Hopefully more. Because there will always be that need for a high end workstation. That market will always exist. It will just be niche. I wonder if this will make AMD more viable. I don't know. That's the wild card. I don't personally think so. That's the wild card. I don't personally think it will unless AMD goes for some gigantic push. And they could. Yeah. And if they go for some gigantic push and they go like oh we're the enthusiast processor now and they make a big push and they actually make viable processors in the high tier range then. Or at a low cost but slightly higher than what they're doing now but that it's unlocked and you can overclock it. There is room for them to reinvent themselves as that cool company. Yeah. Where Intel will be like that corporate company. So let's see. They have to last that long. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Everyone I know is gaming on Xbox will buy PC. You need PC. A big game that everyone needs. Yeah I hope Star Citizen is that game. I'm super excited about that. There's a couple possibly big games coming out soon. Robert, you can use a controller on a PC. Xbox 360 works just fine. Xbox 360 controller works just fine on a PC. Just get an adapter dongle. Yep and if you're at I'm not sure if he's using handicapped as an exact term or not. If you are actually handicapped you can get things like OCZ Nia. Oh come on. That thing's stupid though. No. No but have you seen the Peregrin? Yeah. That thing's awesome. That thing's cool. Nia's super cheap though. Yeah but the Nia doesn't. And it works. You just suck at it. Peregrin's way cooler. Yeah I agree. Have you seen the video? Yeah I've seen it. So if you guys don't know what the Peregrin is it's a glove you wear that has contact points all over the inside. I think you can do about 30 commands. I don't know how many. I think it's here, here and here and then your thumb just connects them all. Yeah so you can do up to I think it's 30 different commands by just touching your thumb to various fingers on the and there's like conductive control pads on them. And so they were showing someone gaming in a game like League of Legends. So instead of having this mouse on a keyboard you actually just kind of have it beside you like this. You got your mouse hand and you just go you know for whatever spell or hotkey you want to hit and there's pro gamers claiming that it actually makes them faster than if they use a keyboard because they never have to look. It's all muscle memory. You just think go like that. I haven't seen any of them actually doing it in a tournament but I used it at PAX and it is like it's fairly okay quick. It's not super slow. I personally find I'd be way faster with a keyboard because then all your fingers are currently resting on the keys. But you're more used to it. But I'm more used to it too. But then this means that you have to move your thumb to each individual key if you're representing your fingers as keys. This way your fingers are all over the keys. You don't have to move your thumb much. I know but your fingers resting on the keys is not moving your fingers at all. Unless you have to move your finger and press a key. Which is never good. Remember like 30 keys though. Q-W-E-R. No no I mean but if you could hit 30 like this. Like let's say you needed a wider variety. Because for like a different game other than. Yeah on a keyboard I'd say there's probably. I guess there's DNF too. Reload. See Q's tough. As soon as you get into the ring finger, pinky finger it's tough. There's probably like 10 to 12 keys that I can hit as quickly as I could do this. Definitely cool. Like if you have shoulder problems and stuff you can keep your arm down off the table and use it. Yep. So I asked for a demo unit. That's cool. So hopefully we can get our hands on it and check it out and let you guys know what we actually think after extended use. But yeah Peregrine. Very very cool. Should I get the 2500k or wait for Haswell? Get a 3570k? Or 2500k? I mean honestly I don't know how much faster Haswell will be. I don't think anyone does right now. Doesn't that make it just another console? The point of PC is the customization. The software customization will always be there though. Which is the difference between PC and console. And you can still be specific about your RAM. You can still be specific about your graphics card. Yes. Yeah. Dylan asks why did you move Linus Tech Tips into your garage? Because we have a new set for NCIX Tech Tips but there actually isn't a ton of space in there. And I've also had some other projects going. I don't know if you've seen my Tech Quickie channel. So if you're following me on Twitter you've probably seen some of my tweets about it or maybe you missed them. But I have some other different video projects that I'm working on as well. So that's part of the reason why I need something resembling a studio space here at home. You want to blame something for the downfall? Blame the first Xbox? Yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. No doubt. When building for me it will be different from building for my mom which I could get. Yep. Yep. Totally agree Sean. I think Slick's right. Imagine five years down the road and everyone has a high end PC. There's nothing unique about PCs anymore. But imagine five years down the road when everyone has a high end PC. Now they can develop a game that only runs on a high end PC. There you go. Part of the reason for it again. Actually I didn't even cover that before. Okay. You know what? Let's move on to the next... Oh actually I got one question here I want to answer. Sean. Sometimes I will take an alternative position to what I actually feel in my heart. Because there are reasons that go beyond my feelings for why things work the way they do. Devil's advocate. You got to bring up the other side of the argument so that the argument isn't boring. And if we don't understand both sides then we're just fanboys. Yeah. So you have to try to understand why does the world work the way it does. I can still feel the way I do. You know what? I mean you guys ask me this all the time and I usually won't tell you. Do I have a favorite of something? Do I have a favorite brand of motherboard? Yes I do. But I can't let that get in the way of being objective. Because I think it's not fair to you guys. So here find another topic for us. I'm going to go see if I've got anything over there. And we'll move right along. Scythe. Oh yeah. Another sad topic in my opinion. Scythe. The makers of Gentle Typhoon and many other fans and many other heat sinks. Shuriken. And Shuriken. Choryuzee. Or whatever they've called them. All the like best names for all their different things. The USA North America branch just went out of business. So this isn't very applicable to anyone else outside of North America. Because Scythe in all those locations is still running just fine. But the North America branch is out of business. So if you want some AR15s you might want to pick those up quick. That's very sad for me. Because my by far favorite fans for at least 120mm is AR15s. They're 1850 RPM 120mm fans. And that means I'm going to buy a small stack of them and then hoard them. But yeah that's kind of crappy. But like I said for anyone outside of North America it doesn't matter because Scythe is doing just fine. You know what this comes down to? Too much choice was bad. Not really actually. It's because the parent company closed down. It wasn't even Scythe USA. It's the guys that owned Scythe USA. So, nah. I bet if it had been more profitable that a parent company wouldn't have had to close down. Yeah but that was like one of their smaller companies. I bet if Scythe had been...ok fine. I'm trying to find some of the Twitter topics that I sent to myself. Oh someone asked us to discuss Virtue. Ok. Like Lucidlogic's Virtue. Oh ok. Not Virtue. I was like what? It's like yeah Slick and I are going to start wearing purity rings. And we really think that if you guys support Linus Tech Tips then you should wear purity rings. And if you're tuning in right now, just to hear me say that, I really hope you didn't tune out immediately. I'm going to explain. So Lucidlogic's Virtue does a number of different things. Although the context that this guy was asking about it in was remember when we first saw the news of Virtue and we were going to be able to run multi-GPU with AMD and Nvidia graphics card, mismatched generations of graphics cards. Why hasn't that taken off in your estimation? Didn't Nvidia get super pissed off? Ok yeah Nvidia got super butt-hurt about it. Yeah they did not want that to happen. Yep. They want to control the SLI ecosystem. Remember what they did to the Big Bang X power? I do remember what they did to the Big Bang X power. Marshall. Big Bang Marshall. Yeah Big Bang Marshall. Do you guys remember the Big Bang Marshall? It was like an XLATX 1155 board. Yeah it was a P55 board wasn't it? I think so. I think so. P67? I don't know whatever. LDA 1155 board that was XLATX that had 7 PCI Express 16x slots and it had Lucidlogic's Virtue. So that, or no not Virtue, it had Hydra. Yeah I think it was their first time. Yeah it was called Hydra. Sorry. So where you could in theory run 7 graphics cards and have them all stacked together and make for better performance. And Nvidia actually blocked Quad SLI and I think Triple SLI. And Triple. All you could do is dual SLI. Yeah you could just do dual SLI on this board in spite of the fact that it had 7 PCI Express slots. 7 PCI slots. 2 graphics cards. Yay! I don't know when I first saw it I basically went this is never going to work. Yeah. Because it's asking for way too much. When I saw it I assumed that you'd get like terrible returns. Yeah. I mean you know what's funny though is they when they optimized it fully for something like 3DMark 11. Yeah. It actually delivered pretty crazy results. You could see it like it was working. However, the problem with that comes down to games. There's so many games. They're all so different. There's always a new patch. Yeah. I mean when I was like okay the reason this can't work is because they would need a driver team as big at least as Nvidia's. Yeah. Because you look at how hard it is for AMD and Nvidia alone to make sure that you don't see random graphical artifacts all over your screen. So why is it that some like small company wasn't able to do more than them and like bring more together than them? Well I think it seems fairly obvious. Pretty straightforward. Some people like tell me they want to buy a motherboard with Hydra and I'm just like yeah don't worry about it. Virtue MVP however does a couple of cool things. So that allows notebook like switching between your dedicated graphics and your integrated GPU. It's a very small performance hit. Very, very small. But you can use your integrated GPU for video transcoding. You can use your dedicated graphics card for gaming. It also allows a couple of other features. One of them is a performance boost one that in theory like. It puts them together. Yeah I know what it does is it puts texture duties on your onboard GPU because that's easy and it's just memory intensive and then it does something else but it just. So sketchy. Yeah we used it and it worked for like one game. Yeah and then just like didn't. And like caused performance degradation in other ones and then I think the other one is something to do with Vsync. But when we were using it we were mainly using an Intel platform right? Yes. I've heard it's a lot more stable on AMD platforms. Weird. With APU and a graphics card. I know that's weird and I haven't done it myself obviously but I've read that it's much more stable. Okay but who cares. Yeah I know I definitely agree. I have a lot of people ask me about what used to be called hybrid crossfire where you have an APU. So you have an AMD CPU with an onboard GPU and then a low end graphics card and you can crossfire them together for performance boost. People are like oh what graphics card should I get a 6670 with my APU and I'm just like oh dude. Oh dude. Just oh dude no. APU is good for onboard graphics. Fantastic. Destroys anything from Intel. If you're looking to build a super basic machine get an APU. If you want to play any games at all. Done. If you want to have a dedicated graphics gaming experience buy a dedicated graphics card. Don't try to like it's like it's like someone deciding they want a car and they like staple two motorcycles together. It's like will it work? Will it move in a direction? Maybe. Should you do it? No. It's like motorcycles are so cheap. You can buy three of them and staple them together. Just no. Spend a hundred dollars. A hundred dollars is the bare minimum to spend on a graphics card. Any less than that and you're getting a terrible value. Buy a real graphics card. End of story. So there it's been said now. That's actually a great analogy. Stapling motorcycles together. It's just like. So ridiculous. Franken contraption. Okay so that was my topic. What was your next topic? Let me see. There's useless human babies. Useless human babies. You know what inspired this topic is my baby. Oh right. Now I remember where we were going with that topic though. Old school RPG majors. Yes. So humans. Actually you know what? No. This was your point. You make the point. Okay I brought up that a baby dolphin immediately upon being born knows to immediately go to the surface and get air. And human babies are just pretty much generally useless at everything they ever try and do for a really really long time. My baby was trying to eat in his high chair with his hands for the first time. Which is cute but ineffective. The mess was literally the entire span of both of his arms and like up the side of his head into his hair. With like a pea. Like not pea but like peas. Peas, bananas. Pea, banana and like baby cereal. And it was just like all over the place. Which like I said is cute but yeah. Compared to most other babies, animals, we kind of suck. Yeah they never stood a chance. So I brought that up and then I came up with the analogy that we're kind of like mages in old school RPG games. Well no because we were talking dolphins. And I was like if dolphins are so smart then why don't they figure out how to walk on land? We figured out how to swim. And I brought up that they don't have opposable thumbs. Okay. So then whatever. And then you kept on bringing up more things and I just kept on saying opposable thumbs. Well yeah because you know what? No if they were so smart they would find a way to win. They would find a way around it. Because he thinks they're smarter than us. Apparently it's been proven that they're smarter. But they can't do a lot of things because they don't have opposable thumbs. Then they're not that smart. How does smart have to do with your physical form? Well we figured out how to like kick tigers butts. Have opposable thumbs? I don't think we've figured out how to have opposable thumbs. Men can kill a tiger even though a tiger is much more powerful. With a tool that he makes with opposable thumbs. Chimps have opposable thumbs. Yeah. Pfft. I could take a chimp. They're not nearly as smart as us though. I just need my sword. But they have opposable thumbs. Yeah. Okay. So what's your point? Which they're kind of lame but are able to survive because they have opposable thumbs. Where are you even going with this? This is you. Okay so humans start out useless. But then later on in life they get totally OP. Completely Imba. Because they're like old school RPG mages. They suck at the beginning and they're horrible to play and they're really annoying. But then once you level up a whole bunch all the warriors are terrible. And you're amazing and overpowered. Diablo 1 is a great example of that. Yeah. Like you die in like two hits at the beginning if you're a mage. But then by the end of it you just walk around with a staff of apocalypse and you're just like right click right click right click right click. You never actually have to go in the room. You just walk around with your BS mana shield. And it's just like the warriors are just like well I actually can't have that much health. Because like the game maxed it and stuff. Yeah. Everquest 1 was also a really good example of that. And like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale are both really good examples of that. You know what was hilarious? Fable 1. I literally had like two spells that I used. So I had like a knockback or something and then I had an area of effect or something stupid. Or maybe it was just one area of effect spell. And it was just like yeah this is all I... You know I don't think I can think of even a modern game where mages aren't just kind of stupid overpowered. Just the whole time? Yeah not really. I mean magic's just like... It used to be the thing where it was like K do I want to have the beginning of this game really easy? I'll play a warrior but I'll suck later on. Or do I want the beginning of this game to be really hard? I'll play a mage and I'll be awesome later on. I wonder what it'll be like an Imba class in something like Star Citizen. Is it really classes though? Kind of. I think it's just the type of ship that you fly. Is it just the type of ship that you fly? I don't...I'm not sure. But if it's like Eve it's more the type of ship and the race that you fly. And the race. But then you can learn the skills for other races so it doesn't really matter. Hmm. It just takes more time. It's still for a race. I mean you just like... You just read their book and Imba just read their book. You just put one foot in front of the other and you try to get there first. Next. Bum tsh. That's a horrible joke. Umm. What else you got? We've got applications or apps. Oh yeah but you ruined all the punch lines. So umm. The app store thing. Windows app store. Yeah, yeah. So Windows has an app store and I think a lot of people have been kind of like...well we were talking about developers. Yep. So we were talking about sort of what a programmer makes these days and I made the point that an app programmer will get paid more inherently because on their resume they put there an app programmer. So yes. So Luke. Slick. Bazinga. Whatever. Doesn't know how it's live. How many people are watching? 1900. Umm. Yeah. That's programmers. Umm. What? Awkward. Right, right, right. So they make more inherently because they make apps and even though I can't imagine what's different about programming an app versus programming like anything else. It's the same language. You just lock down to the yes. Okay. So is it any different programming an app for a phone than it is programming an app for like Windows 8 or? Well it's like I said, it's a different language. Okay. But a lot of the skills transfer. You're using like SDKs and stuff but you use SDKs for a lot of stuff you build for desktops and systems as well so it doesn't really matter. Okay. So a lot of people seem upset about the App Store for Windows 8. Or we can't call it App Store because. Amazon did that and then Apple tried to sue them and then the judge was just like screw you. No one cares. Is that what happened? Yeah. I never paid attention to that one. He basically just threw it out. He was like no it's a freaking App Store you can just leave it alone. Huh. I think everyone's just kind of sick and tired of Apple just trying to sue everyone all the time. Okay. So what's the difference between an app and an application? There isn't one. So what's, so okay. An app is short for application. So basically what you're trying to say then is the App Store has always existed. Yes. Because you just download things from websites. But apps are cheaper. Not necessarily. Which apps aren't cheaper? I don't know. What can you compare really? Well you go like average. Like a professionally developed application. Versus a professionally developed app. They're the same thing if you bring it up that way. But if you bring it up say, okay if you say something from the iTunes App Store or downloading from a website. If you get like, they have Photoshop. I could argue app is actually short for Apple and not application. But it's not. It could be. But it's not. It could be a double meaning. No. It's just not. App Store. Apple Store. But it's not. It means application. They don't have anything else called an Apple Store. Oh my god. They don't have what? That took me a second to process. Of course they do. They should just call their stores App Stores. They actually should. That would be. That would actually be kind of amazing. Yeah it would. And you can go there and you can buy apps or you can buy apps. You can like locally buy an app. You can get a box for your app. So we've always had App Stores at the end of the day. It's called a retail store. Yeah. You can buy software there. Yeah you can buy software there. Although that's kind of stupid. Yeah. No one does that anymore. Yeah no one does that anymore. This will be like a great Twitter question. When's the last time you guys bought software at a retail store? That's happening to games. What I think is going to happen is I don't think games are actually going to be sold. I think it's just going to be like if you buy a special edition you can get hardware when you buy a game. Right. I think pretty damn soon games are all going to be digital. And then special editions are going to be the only way you get actually a physical thing. Well you know what's been one of my favorite things to do over the last five or six years? Every time I go to the mall in Surrey I swing by the EB Games. And the only thing I do there is I see how big the PC section is. It's at the point now where I was at the source. Like I kind of do this. I'm just curious. At the source they had four games on the shelf. They had a couple generations ago WoW expansion. It was like Cataclysm or something. They had StarCraft II. They had Diablo III. And then they had like one other game or something like that. It was like four or five games. And then they had one copy of each. That was it. I think the last game was like a Bethesda title or something. It was like an RPG or something. Might have been Elder Scrolls or Fallout. Something like that. And I was like wow it's dead. It's totally dead. Well people are still buying it but they just don't care. If you're buying StarCraft you're just downloading out Battle.net. If you're buying a Bethesda game you're probably just downloading it from Steam. So if you're Microsoft why don't you just stop selling physical games for Xbox? What's the point? What's the point of a physical medium? Hard drive capacity right now. Xbox hard drive capacity as far as I know isn't that awesome. Okay and then the only reason for limiting hard drive capacity would be to prevent piracy in theory. No I think it's just like if you bought one of the original Xbox's their hard drives were only like 20 to 40 gigs. Now you can get bigger ones with the elites and the newer ones. They're still small. They're still really small. They're still like 320? Yeah. They're still really small. Why can't I just plug in a USB hard drive? That's what I've never really understood. I mean I love how Nintendo's whole DRM thing for the Wii U involves. Because Nintendo still ties your downloadable purchases to the hardware. Not to user account. You know that right? Yeah. So basically there's this drawn out process where you like transfer your hardware from your Wii to your Wii U and like all the accounts kind of go over. And if you screw it up at any point during it I think it gets really complicated. And I don't remember where I was going with this. No idea. Right. Why don't they just let me put like a 64 gig SD card in my stupid thing? And like a big old 3 terabyte hard drive over USB. I think just because you can plug it into a PC really easily. Okay. Can't really plug an Xbox hard drive into a PC very easily. I think you can but I think it's like this weird hack. So it's a piracy prevention thing. Yeah. Okay. So then that's... That's my assumption. I don't actually know but it makes sense to me. Once again piracy prevention just destroys what could be good and makes it bad. You know there was... I think it was like 5 or 10 years ago now. But there was this... A bunch of I think 3 engineers or something like that from Microsoft that were working on DRM. Stuff like the whole idea behind DRM. Just all were like this is just not going to work. And they're like this will not work. People will always find a way around it. And they almost got fired for it. Didn't actually get fired. And then they were just totally right. People will always find a way. And people are like oh PC sales are dying because people pirate stuff. Are you kidding me? Of course. But then look at consoles too. Consoles are so easy to pirate. Okay they might be easier to pirate but I would argue that the average console user is less capable of pirating. Right. That's true. No offense guys. I'm sorry. Actually I... Okay. Oh the viewers are tanking. The viewers are tanking. No one's watching. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Console's okay. Oh the viewers are tanking again. All the PC guys are like... I'm going to alienate the entire audience. But I would argue that sort of lowest common denominator console users are not as tech savvy. No I agree. Yeah. But then like bullshit like sorry mind my language. But Rockstar Games not releasing freaking GTA V on PC because they're like oh there's too many pirates. It's not worth it. What? Yeah I mean it's not like they didn't sell enough to cover how much it cost to port a game. Yeah like are you kidding me? You're just porting it. You think there's not enough people that are going to buy it? Like it's a joke. You know what's the one that I find most offensive? I liked Halo 1. Yeah. I won't play it on an Xbox because playing shooters on a controller is stupid. Yeah. Halo 2 I played through like three quarters of the campaign. I didn't enjoy it that much. Halo 1 I loved Halo 1. Ending of the campaign Halo 1 co-op is like one of the greatest. Why wasn't I ever able to play co-op? First of all why? Why can't I play co-op campaigns on a PC? There's like two games. Co-op is like a given on a console. Yeah. And I mean the co-op experience on split screen is stupid. And then what are you going to do? You're going to drag a bunch of consoles together and daisy chain them like. So you end up like put like four TVs in the same like it's just stupid. It's a terrible user experience. I try so hard to find co-op games. Yes. It's so difficult. Like Alien Swarm was one that was kind of fun. That was a free game. Yeah. Okay. But anyway so the one that I find most offensive is the one. If I was going to pick one company that should be the most committed to the PC platform. That should be willing to sort of bite the bullet on a couple people who download the game. It should be Microsoft. Yeah. They have had every chance over the last ten years to save the PC as a gaming platform. And they have not only not enabled others to support it but they have totally abandoned it themselves. Well they didn't own Halo for a while. They do now. Right. So where's my Halo 4? Where's my Halo 3 for that matter? Did they own it for Halo 3? I don't know. I don't care. I don't think they did. I could totally be wrong. I'm not that good with consoles. Yeah I know right. Where's my Halo 4 though? I don't know. It's not out yet. Was that Halo 4? Halo 4 just got released. I'm really bad with consoles. I thought it was one of their named things. You're fired. Fired because I don't know something about a console. Yeah. Our viewers want to know about...actually I don't think they do. I actually played it. I played the new Halo. It's actually pretty great. This probably looks really impressive. For a console game. Oh yeah sorry. It's a mouse. Show them the mouse pad. Thank you. There's a reason for that. Okay you know what? Why don't we do Twitter Q&A for the last...oh wow two minutes. Did you have any other killer topics that we had to cover? Not really I don't think. Okay sorry guys. This is going to look inappropriate again. No just what you do when the internet is out and artificial product differentiation. Artificial...oh yeah I hate artificial product differentiation. We'll talk about that next week. Okay. What do you think about on PC? We'd have to get it for console. Let's hit the Twitter questions. Might want to change the focus of your camera slightly to the foreground. You know what? It's on auto. I should probably just set it to manual. You're right. Can't believe split screen hasn't killed the console. I know right? I mean like remember...oh you're too young. Did you play 007 GoldenEye on N64? Are you kidding me? Of course I did. I still have it. Yeah that was a pretty good game. And four controllers. I play it all the time. Can you imagine if you'd been able to play that with like dedicated screens for it? It's so epic. Like...ah. Back to Twitter questions. Okay. Xbox is pirated. I bet someone owns your coat. I'm sorry? Slick, that is my coat. I got it from something. Nice. Way to go, Taylor. Get on with the topic, man. And get rid of Slick. He blows. I think that's the same guy as before. Yeah you blow. Yeah it's the same guy from before. Why hasn't physical media moved from optical disc to flash drive? Digital is decent but broadband isn't always cheaper available. Flash drive is still more expensive than optical. Discs are like... Yeah, discs cost nothing to make. Super, super, super cheap. They make them in huge batches and cost nothing. And it's so prevalent that you could probably find out of a hundred computers, 99 of them would have an optical drive or some kind of access to an optical drive and maybe 20% of them would actually have an SD card reader. So there's your answer. GTA sucks but yes, Halo is by far the most offensive. Thank you, John. I agree. For cooling performance, 480 mil rad or thicker than normal 360? I'd go thick 360. Really? Actually, maybe not. I'd probably go thin 480 with low RPM fans. Yeah, that's what I expected you to say. Yeah, okay. But then, like, finding a case that can fit that too, it's not that easy. TJ07, bam. Well, yeah, but that's... TJ07. 360. TJ07, bam. 360 dollars? Bam. 360 dollars? 360 dollars? Why did Twitter just sign out? I don't know. I don't know. You're killing me here. And Xsplit is, like, gone. You know what? That's going to do it for tonight so I'm just going to sort of do this some more and shut this down. So thank you guys for tuning in to the livestream tonight. Don't forget to subscribe on Twitch for more livestreams. Good night. Bye bye.