 Hey everybody and welcome to the Vergecast at CES 2015. I am Neelay Patel. I am Dieter Bohn. I'm Chris Plant. I have to tell you this is extremely weird what is happening right now. If you are like most people and you are listening to this in your car, what I want you to imagine is that, don't close your eyes, but mentally close your eyes. Mentally close your eyes. Let's see what happens. Yeah. Let's see if self-driving cars can save you now. We are on what is a primarily deserted CES show floor. So the Verge has a booth at CES this year. It is pretty rad. Yeah. There's a Mustang in it. We're right next to Polaroid. Yeah, that Mustang is hot. We're also right next to Sony. It's like our chill spot. It's at the end of CES. Amazing graphics on our TVs. Anyways. We have leather couches. We have coffee. We have a show, we're going to do the Verge cast here in front of people. Presumably. But today was such a busy day. We actually waited to do it until after the Sony keynote and after the Samsung keynote and nothing is happening here. The show hasn't officially opened. The Sony thing is over basically. We are just alone at CES. I mean we made the right choice because here during the day it was like thunder down. There were just like little yellow vehicles flying about with their prongs poking at each other. Oh, the people driving the forklifts. They are intense. Like there's a rally school for forklift drivers before you can come and be a forklift driver in Vegas. You have to do stunts. Like drifting the forklifts. I have to believe that those forklift drivers when they go to school to learn how to do it, speaking of. There's one right there. There we go. They're coming for us at all times. That they have like literal human dummies. Yeah, and they're swerving. That they hang up. Not that they're swerving. That they are on their last day they impale them so they can get it out of their system. Just to know what it feels like. Yeah, because you must want to. It's like cell phone companies they test the like the jelly filled fake heads for radiation. Forklift drivers just stab the heads. Guys, do you want some of that classic Chris Plant video game color commentary? Yeah? So Sega before it died made this game called Chinmoo and it was like the big open world game. It's going to have everything in it. You can go to a capsule toy machine and get capsule toys. First level in the game, forklift driving. 25 minute long forklift races. Sega knew what people wanted. Yeah, and that's why it's called Forklift. Okay, so we're at CS. A million things happened today. A million things happened. We're both, we're, here's what I know actually about Dieter. Dieter's mindset. Hi. Dieter. What's up? Dieter has spent most of the day in the trailer. Yeah? And he's losing it. Oh, God. Completely losing it. The one time I left the trailer. I was so excited to interact with people. I went to a keynote and had no internet. I just sat there and tried to get online for an hour. He was real mad. Okay, so CS was very busy today. It's what we call CS day zero. Wait, what was yesterday? Is it negative one? No, it was yesterday. Day zero. Tomorrow the show floor opens. That's day one. For real, it's like the world. Yeah. So this is zero. And the reason for that, it's a super simple reason. For all these booths to be open and full of stuff that you can go look at, they have to announce it first. Right. So all the press conferences are today and tomorrow the show floor is opening and you can go look at stuff. So this morning started out bright and early, right? With what was it? God, it was like a million years ago. I'm going to look at our schedule. Was it ASUS? No, ASUS was later. Last night was Nvidia. What was it? It was... I'm sure it had a self driving car in it. God, today was so long. I'm not sure. It was Samsung, Sony, BMW. Guys, this is like literally everyone who was driving a car and didn't die when they closed their eyes has fallen asleep and now crashed. Today started with LG at 8am. LG. Okay, so it was LG. I will say get in hype for washing machines at 8am. LG introduced today what I would call a baby washing machine. It's the best. It's so cute. It goes under your regular washing machine. If you don't wash a baby. Yeah. You don't wash your baby. Well, it is about the right size. Your baby can use this washing machine. Depending on your baby. It's got a cute little advertisement. No, the idea is you put like your regular load in like, oh, God, I got to wash my delicates. And then you put your delicates in there so you can get them done faster. It's two washing machines. One else, LG also had a refrigerator in which the doors of the refrigerator have their own doors. Yeah. For quick access. Sure. To things in the doors. Do you know what I think is quick access? Innovative dual door. That's usually it. LG and Samsung both went super hard on appliances today. Yeah. Extremely strange ways. Which I appreciate. Because here's what I know. Here's my theme of the show. Here's my number one theme of CS. Which is that gadgets are finally back. You stole that from me. No, you said gizmos and gizmos is an invalid word. Gizmos is the name of like an 80s movie about like a band of wind up toys. What do you think? Gizmos is the name of the gremlin in gremlin. Right. What's the difference between a gizmo and a gadget? If you cannot elucidate the difference between a gizmo and a gadget, then you should not be so dismissive of the word gizmo because it's perfect. Here's what I believe. One, you haven't talked to enough people today. I think that is true. Damn it. You've been alone for too long today. Now, our trailer, the inside of our trailer is like it waxes and wanes. There's bursts of energy and extreme typing sounds. And I think, Dieter, you spent too much time typing. Gizmo versus gadget. I think a gadget, it has weight. It has meaning. The gizmo is like a trinket. That's my feeling based on nothing more than the sound of those words. You can have a serious gizmo. A gadget is like a thing that's like whatever. I think we're about to have a serious gizmo. Yeah. I'm on team Dieter on this one. Let's talk about a device with a serious gizmo factor. I'm moving on. You're welcome. Let me finish my theme, which is gadgets are back. You can gizmo it up. I think this is huge to understand all of CES this year, which is 2007, right before the iPhone came out, Windows was poised to conquer the world. Everything was going to connect to a Windows computer and the notion of Internet connectivity everywhere and all the platforms completely understanding the Internet was like a bolt on to Windows and a bolt on to OS9 and a bolt on to OS10 in some ways. And then the iPhone disrupted the PC platforms and the iPhone was not powerful enough and early versions of Android were not powerful enough to let all that other stuff that was going to happen happen. So then everyone just tried to make phones and tablets and that was garbage. Well, it wasn't. Most of it was garbage. What it was, they were just they lost. They could not keep up with the lead that Apple and Google made. They made garbage and lost, which is fine, like you do. It's true. They couldn't win. Like all the other companies, Polaroid tried to make phones here for years. They were garbage. I would say that most of it was garbage. There were some people that had like systemic things working against them. The main point is that nobody else can win. iPhone X was like a sea of crappy Android 2.2 tablets. They weren't even licensed by Google. And like Honeycomb came out and there was a sea of crappy. And that was all fine, but that wasn't the thing that you needed to make. What you needed to have happen was iOS and Android and the cloud services to all combine and be powerful enough for this universe of other stuff to happen again. And then on top of that, because there's this huge drive to put sensors and wireless and make wireless not cost a lot of battery in phones, those chips got really cheap and really like power efficient. And now you can just be like, yo, I want to make a coffee maker. I can just put a Wi-Fi chip and a temperature sensor in it and that will connect to a cloud service and the iPhone will be smart or your Android phone will be the smart thing. And that means like what Samsung wants to rule the world with internet things is really just like we're just back to like gadgets. Yeah. But what's great about- They don't USB connect to your computer anymore. Right. They don't USB connect to your iPhone to a cloud. Or they just, they do their own thing and then maybe they Bluetooth to a phone, but you can just take a thing that did one thing and a thing that did another thing and stick them together. It's like my favorite gadgets from yesterday was like the, there's a bike pedal that turns your bike into a smart bike. That's cool. Right. Just like, that's just like cool. Like, oh yeah, of course we should do something like that. Like you don't need it, but it's like a fun gadget. It feels like CES before the iPhone, honestly. It feels like what CES was. I was Christmas shopping and I was at Best Buy and I was like, there's cool stuff at Best Buy. Yeah. Like in a weird, I'm not going to buy most of it way because all of it is fitness track. Right. But it's here. And it's relatively cheap. And so if you're like, I can't think what to get uncle Joe, but uncle Joe will be like, oh hey, headphones that like track my head motion. But uncle Joe's too dull to know what's going on. That's cool. I know we're going to talk about the internet of things like every day this time, but I still, I don't know. I think there's a lot of assumptions going around that all this stuff just works. I mean, you just said just works and I, I don't believe it. I mean, I believe it for us. Right. When I picture my parents who like can barely get onto their own wifi network, I love you Ken and Kathy, but we have trouble sometimes with that. And then imagining them trying to figure out how to do that and dial it in with something that doesn't even have a screen on it or has like a tiny small screen, like a coffee maker. That sounds like a nightmare for most people. And they're just going to say, I just want a normal coffee machine. And I know that we'll come around and get to that, but this feels a little like early hype. It feels like, no, I think that was last year. That's what I'm saying. Like there was a moment last year and the year before where to solve the problem of how do we make this coffee machine smart? What they did was like bolt a crappy Android smartphone to the back of it. Yeah. Like that was the answer. Like here's a reference board for media tech that runs Android 2.2 and now your coffee machine is smart and it's going to run like an embedded app on old Android. And that was never going to work. Like I literally don't let my parents, I don't allow them to expose themselves to new software. Like it terrifies me. My parents want a smart lock. I'm like, no, because what you really want is an app that I will have to walk you through. I'm like that we're not going to, we're not going to put access into your home at that level of comp. Like that's too much. But now what I'm saying is you don't have to, you're not, they're not doing that anymore. All the software lives on your phone and all that's happening on all these devices is a little bit of wireless connectivity and a little bit of like sensor stuff. And so like to get that coffee maker on your wifi network, you just configure it on the phone. Sensor stuff. I'm very excited to see all of it as someone who still doesn't get my remote control to work. Right. So we should talk about what actually happened here today. He said ominously. Do we, can we talk about a couple more gizmos before we get into like the big companies? It was yesterday we actually saw a lot of, at CES unveiled, which is like the, like the little company show before the show, before the show. I actually finally figured it out. I finally figured out what CES unveiled is. All right. So the show press conference today and the show opens tomorrow. So most media gets in yesterday. We come in like, I was here in October, right? We came in like really early and like set up and we have a trailer. Most people arrive yesterday in the afternoon and they immediately go from the airport to unveiled where they're starving. And so the CEA sets up food and booze in like somewhat extravagant fashion, which we don't, we don't take. Or take. Because ethics and video game journalism. But many, many people arrive at the airport, go and they just like gorge themselves and like free shrimp while, and then that's how you, that's how they get exposed to the little companies. Right. And it's all wrong. Like we go there for news. Other people are going there for sliders. Yeah. Good news out of that. We did. I got to see the O box. Yeah. Okay. So the O box is games, games, man. I got to dig more into snail games because they're the strangest company. Chinese game developer kind of made browser games starting in 2000 and they're like, Hey, you know what? Uh, Apple has disrupted the entire landscape. Video games are not going to make money because free to play is the whole thing. And we can't just be on browsers. So they started making mobile games and they're like, Hey, you know what? Make this easier. Making the hardware that will be optimized for this. And then they were like, you know what would be even easier than that? Becoming a telecom and becoming the fifth largest, uh, mobile telephone provider in China, which like fifth, I mean it's like 2% of the market or something. That's a lot of people. That's a ton of people. So then they're like, Oh, this was so easy. Apparently doing whatever we wanted. Let's do something so, so easy. Let's launch a video game console in America and a handheld in the same year. Right. So they're launching O box, which is like an Android console, but it's like the most absurdly souped up version of that, even though it's running on a Nvidia's K one, which just got kind of replaced. So we'll see if they stick with that. By the way, the X is because of Maxwell. Carry on. I'm surprised that you heard that in that entire thing. Nvidia's press conference was very long yesterday and that was one of many ridiculous things that were said. I'm going to write the blog post that's like, stop putting X in your brand name. Yeah. Stop just using letters. Uh, but yeah, so I mean the cheapest version of it they think will be like $99, which is interesting because it also, uh, displays 3d and 4k video. So potentially this could be your Netflix 4k video streaming thing. None of this is going to happen. The thing is not going to come out on time. It's going to be buggy. It's going to run Android. The games are going to suck because it runs Android. It's going to crash and burn. I'm sorry. No. Wow. I mean, a lot of people are going to hear that the wrong way. I hear that you said it's going to fail because it runs Android, which is what Deater said. Android gaming consoles are doomed to fail. They're inherently doomed because gaming on Android is inferior to gaming on any other platform. So I'm going to give you a little, a little bit of a pep talk. This is a little CES pep talk. Ready? I come from the game space. I know full well what happens to Android things, but when something does something interesting, I like to at least humor it and give it the benefit of the doubt. It's very interesting. It's very interesting. Second thing though. By the way, benefit of the doubt plant, my favorite plant. After I talked to you, you know what I did? I called up my father this morning and he loves technology. He downloads so much freeware. Uh, and he was like, boy, oh boy. You are. CES. I'm so gosh dang proud of you. And there's technology and have you seen all the new things? There's skateboard. Yep. He's my favorite person. Um, but like that, I was like, yeah, I need to be, I need to give these things a chance. And that's why I want to talk about the other thing that they showed. W3D, which I'm going to be really honest about who this is very clearly for. It is a Vita essentially runs Android and it has a four, uh, buttons on the top. So you have all four bumpers. Oh yeah. I know what this is. I know where you're going. Only one person in the world who's going to play this and they're going to buy good jillions of them. And those are people who emulate games illegally and, and whatever money they lose on the O box, I'm sure they're going to do a fair amount of business on that because it is clearly designed from top to bottom to make that an enjoyable experience. That's great. Um, so for those people, you are going to already be doing W3D. So Neil, what's your favorite gadget gadget that you've seen so far, not gizmo actually gizmo. God, this is fine. Favorite gadgets litigating these words. I don't know what they mean. I just know that your sounds dumber cruddy because like, I know mine is if you don't know yours is, uh, yeah, you tell me, I don't, I haven't, I haven't even mentioned it. I haven't seen anything yet, but do you tell me yours is my favorite. I haven't seen it person, but my favorite thing is the, uh, Band-Aid that you stick on your baby when it has a fever and it lasts about a 24 hours and it just, you could just check the app, uh, check your baby's temperature whenever you want. And or you could just set it to like make your phone beep if it changes radically. So for parents that want to freak out and like check the baby's temperature all the time and they've got a fever and they're really nervous about it, you just stick this on your baby and chill out. No, but it's an amazing idea. It's a really good idea to be warned, you know, he's just like checking your temperature in terms of like weird little the way in terms of technology getting cheaper and that's right. You're better. This is a perfect example, but I will say this, Liz and Ariel constantly remind me that all these wearables and all these sensors and all this quantified self stuff is like heaven for complete like obsessive, compulsive hypochondriac. Oh my gosh, like Ariel's like up in arms about health kit and how you can't delete it from the iPhone because she's like, this will just enable like if you are like a crazy parent, like a, like a modern 2010s parent, a parent, you'll just have one of these things in your kid all the time. Yeah. You will literally just swaddle your kid in like, like sensor later band-aids. There's not enough skin for more wearables. You know what I'll say? We should, we can talk about Sony cause we're sitting right, we're sitting in the shadow of the Sony booth. I literally, I covered, I live logged the Sony keynote and then walked here and sat down and we started broadcasting. Yeah. So we might as well talk about Sony, which is the last thing that happened. So my favorite gadget so far and only for what it stands for, not for necessarily what it is, is Sony's 4k TV, which is ridiculously thin. It is, it's the demo they're giving is they're walking around with chapstick and the TV at the top is thinner than the part of the chapstick that you turn at the bottom. Like it's ridiculous. Like, and they keep holding up phones. I mean, I see how crappy your phone is. Our TV is thinner than it, which is the best. I don't know why that's a valid comparison, but it fills everyone with glee. But here's the thing about that. So the hardware is beautiful. The picture is great. 4k, all this stuff. Sony's threw out their software. Right. They just stopped. Like the one thing Sony has always needed to do, just stop, just stop. And all of their new TVs just run Android TV, which is cool. And they knew it too, because when they said it, there was kind of tepid claps and he was like, you can clap. We did this for you. We're not using any of that junk on those other TVs. Yeah, it was amazing. Like they finally did it and like there, it's a little, I played with one. It's obviously a little bit buggy. It's like brand new. Android TV is a little buggy, but I think the Google TV was a huge. Forklift, just forklift coming at us. Google TV is a huge failure. By the way, if I'm ever murdered, that will be the sound of my murder. Like not like a terribly scary sound and not go go impale a dummy guys. Just sort of a dull beeping that indicates perilous at hand. And then I'll like, I'll screw it up. I like that you think a warning signal means peril is at hand. What else does warning mean? It's designed to warn you. That's what it is. Like warning and peril are synonyms. You are literally that character in Austin Powers. It's like backing up. It's like, please get out of the way and you're like, oh, peril is at hand. Finally an Austin Powers joke in 2015. Man. God. I'm telling you, man, I'm just saying, I'm not saying that would be how I die. I'm saying that will be the sound. Sure. Have you ever thought about the ambient sound environment of your own mortality? Who doesn't? What are we talking about? I think we're talking about TV. I was going to say Android TV doesn't suck. That's all. That's the whole thing. So what you're excited about is the software. What I'm excited about in general, our hearts filled with terror once again. What I'm excited about, can we even keep going? The problem is you never know which one of those sounds is going to be what's going to kill you. The question is, are our microphones picking up the beeping? Because if they're not, we sound like cringes. 100% they're picking up the beeping. I see John's face and John's face tells me we screwed it up again. One year CES won't be loud. CS 2016, the quiet one. After Neelay died to that noise, everything was just so quiet. CS 2016, permanent headphone rave. God. Yes, yes. Software. No, I'm saying the platforms are extended down to all the screens. They gave up on the software and they're just using the mature platform. The problem is it's kind of like having a TV that runs Windows. Yeah, but here's the thing. Two years from now the processor will be slow. The problem with that is giving up and using somebody else's software platform, Sony's not good at making its own software. It's not always good at using somebody else's. And example A, exhibit A is the Walkman. The new Walkman is running a two year old version of Android. I really wanted that to happen. $1000. No, no, no. You got it wrong. It's $1200. $1200. So there's a new Walkman, the NW2. I would say it's my favorite gadget here for only because it is so ridiculous. It is such an audacious thing to make. So I have this other theory that the 90s are back in every which way. And this gadget proves it. Not because it's called the Walkman, but because Sony believes it can launch a new high end audio format. Which is basically what Sony tries to do every decade. So in the 90s was SACD, Super Audio CD. And I had one. I had one Sony like a home theater in a box when I was in college. And I had one Super Audio CD. What was it? I don't even remember. Yes you do. You know the band. No I don't. I honestly don't remember. I'm pretty sure it was like a Rolls-Royce. It was big audio dynamite. It was not big. It was CNC Music Factory. Yes it was. You've literally just named two bands that no amount of additional audio resolution can reveal anything. It was T-Rex. Yeah. And I think it was like some old Rolling Stones B-side collection. Sure. It was like the free CD that comes with the home theater in a box. They didn't pay a lot for it. And I just remember being like, man those guitar tinkles, they're so crisp. And I never bought another Super Audio CD. But I was like, check out this one CD I have. It was awful. And that's what this Walkman is. It's a Walkman. They invented a new thing. HXEE or DXEE. It doesn't even matter what the letters are. But they have an X in them. It's a super expensive mega bass. It's an audio upscaler that can make MP3s in your $1,200 Walkman sound really good. If you have the like $3,000 headphones that will make use of them. No, high res audio is like Sony's thing. They have this whole line of products. They made a big announcement about how the CEA and everyone else at the CEA, all the member companies are going to support the same logo so consumers really know that it's high res. This was part of the keynote today. They said it on stage. I'm sorry. They sent 3,000 journalists to Vegas and sat them down in a room with a big circular screen above them. And first they talked about the interview and then they talked about 4K and then they talked about cameras. And they landed on and we're all going to use the same logo for our super high end audio format and then looked expectantly upon us. Oh, no. We got that. And he's like and then $1,200 Walkman. We got that from Samsung too. They announced the UHD alliance. Okay. We can stop talking about Sony. I have one thing that I want to hit. It strikes me as funny that you care about software on a TV and it's because I don't know why it matters. Because I have a TV that I am obsessed with as we talked about. I have the last line of the Panasonic TVs. I think it's perfect television. You have the higher end one. I think it's CT-60. I think it's absolutely perfect and I can never imagine getting rid of it at this point. And what I did with it because I bought a nice TV is I have my own separate sound. I'm not going to use the junky sound in it. And I'm also not going to use any junky software in it. I plugged a computer into it. Do you use the camera that pops up? No. I don't use anything but the TV. That's what I want. Panasonic makes a nice panel. They make a great TV. And that's what a TV is. And it seems funny to me that we know the sound is going to be junky on a TV if we're buying a nice TV. So we get surround sound. But then when it comes to the computing angle, why people would want a computer inside of the TV when they can just hook a relatively affordable computer up to a TV and it works magnificently. And I've written about this on the site. Having a computer connected to your TV changes everything about having a TV. It is, I mean, it was a total revelation how I use my TV and what it's connected to and what services I use and how those services are actually reliable. You can't, you can't. That idea has been tried so many, like that first Microsoft tried it for real. And they were like, nope, bad idea. Then Google tried it with Google TV and they're like literally almost killed Logitech. Like Google was like, I'm holding a snipe. Would anyone like me to stab them? And Logitech was like, that sounds like a great direction for our business to go in. And it was just like, like they were just like, they made this sound. Is nobody wants a keyboard on their coffee table. Because it's not on the keyboard to cool enough. That's it. Whatever. I don't, I admit that there are some cool keyboards. I will concede such a thing. I guess what I'm saying is as somebody who actually knows or I would hope or has tried the experience and knows it's better. It just seems weird to concede that it's an exciting thing, even though it's crappier. No, I think that here's the thing. So to get really nerdy, it's about where the software lives. It's not about having a computer on your TV. It's about where does your software live and like how fast does it age and where does it get updated and like is it going to crash and why is it going to crash and like is the hardware behind it fast enough to run it and having a computer next to your TV. And is the company that supports it going to update the, update it? And so like the best answer that anybody's had so far has been something like Airplay or Chromecast where all the software like kind of lives on your phone or elsewhere and you like send stuff to the TV. Yeah. You're what all you're saying is PC and we're going to send it over. Yeah. Whatever. That is like, that's not an integrated solution. So either you go all the way down the, this is a dumb panel or you find some way to make the smart panel. Actually, I think I can understand it. Why doesn't anybody sell a dumb panel? Just give me a dumb panel with no speakers, no nothing. I just want a panel. Because we are not the market. And I want five HDMI inputs. Because we're just definitely not the market. That's all I want. This makes more sense to me now that I think about it because then what you're saying is the Android thing is optional in the same way the sound is optional. There's still sound on my TV even though it's a laughable idea that I'm going to use it. The Android thing's there but I can still use my computer and still have a superior experience. Right. I mean anything, like so I'm going to transition us right into Samsung which is the other big side of the announcement today. So Sony announced a bunch of stuff. I mean the big, I think Sony's big announcement was all of their new TVs are running Android TV. Then they announced some like smart glasses nonsense weird Sony thing. Then they announced a bunch of obviously internet of things things like a light, a lamp that's a speaker. Yeah. A proprietary vertical firing speaker. The glass of the lamp, that's the tweeter because it vibrates. I mean like that's like that's what I mean by gadgets are back. Like they're just whole hog into like weird gifts, weird, weird gifts. There's a lamp that's a speaker. Also there are so many in that good hall. Have you seen those Marley headphones? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are nice. They look nice. I have like chaps on nice. Marley headphones are, they're good. They are also if you catch it right at the right time, Marley's kids or he has a thousand kids, they're actually there and they're just hanging out talking about headphones. Let me, let me float a dark theory that the reason that everybody's finally making weird gadgets again and weird gifts again is because they're waiting for the economy to turn around and like, oh, well now people actually buy this stuff. Yeah, sure. I mean maybe or they just have an opportunity to make something that connects to something that's used. I mean the whole point of this is all of these things are only enabled by phones, right? Like you, you need to have a phone to like make some of these things work. Do you know what's kind of funny about it when you think about like the like gift economy, right? Like for the past probably six years, the junk that you always got from your grandparents was like something that connected to your phone but was garbage. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, I guess I need this like wrap around my phone that looks like a puppy dog and now it's an evolution of that to the extreme where it's like, yeah, these still are kind of connected to my phone. The phone is like the safe base for all companies are like, okay, it connects to a phone so we know people will buy it, but we're actually making a guitar. It's like, great, cool. It's, but who, thank goodness it connects to the phone. Today Lenovo put out a flash for selfies. Like that is the ultimate, like I don't really care about you gift, but I had to spend $40. Yeah. And I think people will happily buy that gift. I'm going to buy one of those. If there was a way to make the nice camera on the back of my phone be my selfie camera. Oh, there are, there's, well, there's phones that they flip around. It's got a motor on it. Oh yeah. I've seen that. That's the Oppo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Samsung. Let's do Samsung. You watch the keynote. I was out and about. It was, it was a standard Samsung CES keynote. Well, I mean, but Samsung had a crazy ass party last night with like girls in led dresses floating in pool. Yeah, so they got their weird out there at the crazy ass party. What? I don't think Samsung ever gets its weird out. Okay. I don't think such a thing is possible. You never say that phrase. I don't think Samsung ever gets its weird out. Today Samsung introduced a line of stoves to thunderous orchestral music. Yeah. Like that's just who they are. Yep. Actually the stoves have this insane cool door where like you can open the top of it and there's like the top section of the stove. So it's efficient. Everything at CES has two doors. Or no, no, but like it's the same door. You can hinge it here or you can open the whole door. Oh. And this is the door your cell phone controls. Yeah. What? I mean, clearly they had the new stove, they had the new washing machine. Just say the letter. S, apostrophe, UHD. Sud. Sud. Sud. What happens when you rub soap together in the bath? Really unclear. So we showed up. I tell you what, they look great. And we just had to get into this. Sure. But Samsung, so we showed up in like, CES is not a coy environment. Like Vegas is not a, like for a place that's all about like hiding your cards, like Vegas is not about hiding your cards at all. So all the banners are up when we get here, all the whatever, the gigantic wall coverings are here. And Samsung just has like billboards everywhere that it's like the most, they're like fake movie billboards. And they're like the most seductive TV in the world starring 4k content from Netflix. And it's just like what? And there's like a silhouette of a man and it's like, you don't understand what the word seductive means. Yeah. Just the first and foremost. They don't understand a few different words. We posted on our site. Modesty. What was it? Shering. Shering. Yeah. SH. So yeah, there's nine. Do you have that post up? I'm looking it up right now actually. A method for preparing an egg. So S, apostrophe, Yoshi, the most seductive TV in the world, which is. But like, so it's UHD, ultra high def. So my proposed headline, I'm just going to say this, John, you might have to bleep this. My proposed headline for the post where we revealed that Samsung had these posters was simply that, okay, I'll tone it down for the kids. Because we're also, there's. You want me to bleep it? No, no. I'll bleep. Microphones in the hallway. I'll bleep. No, it's not that. It's that there are, we're in our space and there are speakers. Yeah. People can hear us. For our audience that isn't here. And so if I just said out loud. John is literally staring right through you. Samsung wants to fuck. You couldn't just say, Samsung wants to you, but you just had to say the word. You just really wanted to say the word. Finish it. I couldn't, I didn't deliver. You didn't say the other words. The words after the words. There's only four words. I thought you said, I thought it was Samsung wants to do your T wants you to do your TV. Yeah, no, it's not. Yeah. You have to bone you. That's what I believe in my heart. It's unclear who is seducing whom in this relationship and also why the TV has the agency by which you get seduced or the name. Like it sounds like a Batman. Just like you see it and you're like sued. What's insane is that they don't, they can't decide what the S stands for. Right. So can you, so the S literally does not stand for Samsung. So they had a van with Samsung floating around in pools with neon lights on them and just insanity. Uh, and they had sign posts and the S stands not for Samsung, but for special or perhaps striking. Yeah. Or perhaps sensational or seductive. Still just unclear. Smart, stylish, superb. Spectacular. And shirring. Shirring. It's shirring. Read the definition of shirring. Hang on. Confirm for me that the word shirring was actually somewhere because I'm pretty sure they probably meant stirring. Right? I'm pretty sure what they actually meant was Samsung. No, so there's an alternate definition of shirring other than the one we have here. So you say this one first and I'll. Shirring noun, baking shelled eggs. Now I think there, I think, and this is digging deep, this is high school clothing lab, but I believe there's a sewing technique or a stitching technique where it's two lines next to each other is also shirring. Right. That does not justify it. Maybe the TV is finished with like that like contrast stitching. Doesn't Occam's razor demand that it was supposed to be stirring and they screwed it up when they printed it? I want to believe it's shirring. But if you're gonna, if you're gonna hire Yves Behar to design your TV, you're going to name it sued. Dude. You know, you don't copy edit the press release. I do not care what that TV is called. It does look nice. It looks really good. I would own that TV. I came in to see yes. Thinking I would see it across the room. Look here it is. Here it is. You're like, are you running? You're running. Are you ready? It's not a 21 nine aspect ratio. You guys, I'm going to make a bold statement. Okay. It's older than me saying I would bone the TV. I believe in quantum pixels. I don't. That's I don't. Is that a, yup. You're real mad. I preferred the skit Chris and I were doing about slowly walk across the room. Kids in the hall over here and then say, so Josh, let's put a brilliant post. Like this is true. This is happening. Nobody at CES is saying peep about 3d and it's, that's like two years ago. Awesome. It was last year too. We had it last year a little bit. Yeah, but it was, it was well and dead last year. Now it's all VR or whatever, but everybody's like, what are they're just doing other ways to look at stuff. They're just doing picture quality. And LG is doing OLED because they're dumb. What if the real theme of CES is dumb ways to look at stuff, but so quantum pixels, I like do some chemically magical things to make LCDs like suck a little bit less and look a little bit more like plasma. And it kind of works. At least it works in like their controlled, look at how awesome our TV looks environment. Um, it looks good. I'm not sold on curved TVs. No, curved TVs are garbage. I am sold on the area of improvements to LCDs until they are better. And I think that's like, that's clearly the future, right? Like, yeah. Well, the only company pushing OLED TVs here is LG. And that's because they own OLED factories. And they're like, what do we do with these? Like we finally, we finally got there guys. And like, let's just make the TVs like, and then we can pack it up and go. But now the quantum dots, like they're, they're, they're figuring out how to make LCD do all the stuff that like they're black levels of plasma. The other interesting thing that's happening here, it's not going to get there, Chris, I feel your pain. But the other interesting thing that's happening here is last year we did a bunch of reports on high dynamic range TVs and Dolby vision where the brights are so much brighter than they usually are. And Netflix and Sony are partnering. Netflix is going to deliver HDR movies to Sony TVs sometime this year. So that quantum, like it gets us to a place where you can see what's going to happen is that 4k TVs this year will be $1,000. David keeps telling me that 4k TVs are now table stakes. No one talks about their TVs being any other than 4k. And that's like, that's the TV you can buy now for a thousand dollars. Next year those TVs will be $200 next, the year after that, whatever. So the next thing they're desperately searching for the next 3d is HDR. And you know what? I am way happier about that than I was about 3d. Yeah. I think HDR and quantum pixels. No, quantum pixels are like, like that's like you go from led LCD to like local dimming else. Like quantum pixels are just the next generation of that. HDR is the next 4k or the next 3d or whatever. Because you're not, they've spent four years chasing their tails trying to deliver 4k content. And like literally what Sony came up with today was like the Goldbergs will be shot in 4k some episodes. It's like Sony, you make the cameras and you own the studio. Yeah. You should really be able to put this together. Yeah. But like, so that's finally happening. So they're not going to go to another like resolution boost soon, but they will definitely come to a place where they can do HDR because dynamic range is easier to control for. I'm just curious, the content is still the issue. And I know they were talking about all this up uprising basically for the content you have and I want to see more of it. Obviously that's not what they're going to want to show. They want to show you 4k content on 4k TVs. Right. But if that uprising looks anything like basically uprising anywhere else, money is what? I'm expecting. I want to see it before I like give too much of a judgment, but I don't know that it, it sounds, it doesn't sound appealing to me to have a 4k TV if I'm not watching mostly 4k content. Right. And I think that's the, you know, there's another thing that's happening here, which is like Dish Network announced finally they're selling a cable subscription over the internet with ESPN included. Although Peter Kafka reported in Rico today and I have every reason to believe him that that deal. So it's 20 bucks a month to get like ESPN and a bunch of other channels, but like the one that matters is ESPN. The one that matters is ESPN. It's the first time you can just buy ESPN and have it to you delivered in an app. But the deal with Dish is that if you, if they get too many subscribers, ESPN can cancel the deal. It's capped. Right. So it's like inherently an experiment for ESPN to like figure out what that market looks like and how the streaming works and all that stuff. But if they get like too many subscribers, they can just be like, nope, we're done. Like that is the number. We're not at it. We're not at it anymore. Because it's too much of a threat to their existing business model. But that's actually how the terror fills my heart. The future is a threat to our business model. I mean, I'm just saying. I'm at work, man. Just, I, I, in the moments, I think Las Vegas causes you to really think about how you're all going to die one day. Yeah. Like that. Like just how small you are in your life. Because like you fly over the mountains and it's like, here's thousands of years of nature formed all this stuff. And then it's like, here's a fake pyramid next to the Eiffel Tower. This took 50 years. I want to tear it down, bitches. Like everything we done is so small and so fleeting and it was so hard here. And then like you just hear this quiet beeping and this other totally artificial environment. You're like, that's the sound of my death. Is that just me? No, I think that's fair. Like my, look, our lives will be fleeting and inconsequential. There's a place that has no sense. But in the middle, everything will connect to our cell phones. Thank God. That helps me forget. Are we going to talk about IOT? We should talk about IOT and we should also talk about cars. Oh yeah. Two different topics. What do you want to do first? ADAS or IOT? Well, here's what I know. ADAS or IOT? No, you're, you're all fired up about IOT, but I got, I got, I'm scoring for ADAS. Yeah. I got, I got. ADAS. Let's do some IOT. That's more of a cell phone connection story. IOT stands for Internet Oath Things. Makes it sound much more plain. It's a John T. Irish. And one of the biggest trends in the industry today was wrecked by St. Patrick's Day. If there were, if you were a company with more than, I'm going to say 30 employees and you're presenting at CES, you are talking about the Internet of Things or. Or you're trying to sell your company to Samsung. Basically the way we say it now, IOT, I hate my job. IOT. IOT sounds better. Internet of Things doesn't sound like a real thing. Yeah, but IOT sounds like something in a capital. It's capital I, lowercase O, capital T. Yeah, like a capital G, lowercase O, capital T. They're associated with that Game of Thrones. What? Capital W, lowercase O, capital W. Oh, that'd be amazing if it was, it was just to get closer to Game of Thrones. We're two letters away. One letter away. Game, G, H, I. The problem that I have with IOT. Don't worry about it. And with Internet of Things in general is everybody talks about it. It's stupid by yelling letters at me. No, it's Game, G, H, I. That's a two letter jump. I see what you're saying. This is the worst. I feel so bad for that person driving the car who didn't kill himself when he closed his eyes. You made it. We're still talking. I'm so sorry. All right, tell me. The worst part about everybody talking about Internet of Things all the time is nobody says anything. It's all really vague. Everything will talk to each other and you'll be connected and you'll always know everything and everything will always work together and it'll be great. Right. Just like, tell me what my coffee maker's gonna do. That's all you need to do. Tell me how my lock is gonna work. No, but here's Sony's problem and Samsung's problem. Anybody else trying to do this stuff? And to its credit, Samsung's making a big deal about smart things. They made that acquisition. They're obviously funneling money into it. But what they're saying is we're gonna make a bunch of hardware that's really cool because we're hardware companies. They're in our hearts. When we're in our cars and we close our eyes and we envision ourselves, it's a hardware company in a fast car. That self-drives. It self-drives. Thank you, NVIDIA. Oh, here it is. This is some tele, man. It doesn't fill you with dread. You know what? It doesn't because I know they're doing it on purpose. That dude is trolling the shit out of us. There hasn't been a pallet on that forklift in like two hours. All right. No, here's the thing. They're building all the hardware. They're ahead of the curve. Yeah, but they're... And what they're saying is what people who are shitty at software, people who are bad at software... Just for the kids. People who are bad at software. You don't know this, but I just pointed to John emphatically. You do realize we're also videotaping? No, most people are in their cars. All of these companies are hardware companies. Yeah. And what hardware companies do when they're bad at software is they close their eyes and pretend they're good at software, and they come up with things that software could do. And that's all you're hearing. It's just vacuous nonsense about if Samsung was good at software, I bet when you walked into your house, it would know about your phone, I guess, and then turn on your computer, and then your computer would be like, yo, there's a Madonna video that I should play on the TV, and that Madonna video would then turn on all your lights, and it's like that. Made by Samsung. Oh, that's how we got there. That's not what anyone wants. Long walk, small glass. So Samsung announces new smart things. There's a new hub. There's new little micro sensors to make your things smart that are called smart things. There's a subscription service, and they've got a bunch of partnerships. They work with August locks. They work with the Hue light bulb. They work with Honeywell. They work with something, something, something. But it's really obvious to me that Samsung is like, well, we've gotten as far as we can get with phones. Let's see if we can actually dominate something else the way that Apple dominated phones, and they're running at this. And that's what, but like, and then Google had the same idea. That's why they bought Nest. Yep. And Nest had a bunch of partnerships announced here, including Hue bulbs and August smart locks. And to its credit, Samsung said, everything we do will be an open standard. Yeah. They'll let anything talk to anything. And it's a great fault what they did not say was, and we have figured out a security model that will keep you fucking safe. Yeah. Sorry. For the kids. For the kids. Well, the other problem is- I would say John just looks very angry at me. There's zero- Actually, John's just playing on his phone. He's wet. I mean zero recognition that these things not only are like privacy problems, but they're also just creepy. I'm like, there's, it's one thing like someone breaks into my internet of things mesh network and can like look at the cameras that are trained on my bedroom. Like that's one level of scary, but there's a whole other- Is there another level of scary? Yes. There's a whole other level of scary, which is that there's a giant computer and a giant corporation using it to figure out when I'm going to die because it knows my sleeping patterns and therefore my insurance rates go up. Like that's- I actually think they're spying on your- Dear robot actuary, I love you. Yeah. I'm just saying, I think that looking at me while I sleep is way scarier than the insurance thing. Yeah. But it's just like one guy. It's not like the system. I'm really worried about the system, man. Listen. I don't worry about the system. Samsung today- Man can't get me down. Unironically- And this is by my own rules. A couple of times- I stole this booze from Sony and I poured it in my own cup. A slide that said the rise of the IoT. That's true. They did say that. If you're a company that one, does a two hour keynote about the internet of things and everything in your house watching you and tracking you and doesn't talk about privacy in a really deep way, and then on top of that, you make a terminator reference and don't even know it. I don't want you running the future of computing. Maybe you just don't have the rights. That was what made me uncomfortable about that entire speech. And we talked about this a little bit before. It felt like a politician trying to sell me on something that was actually bad for me, but they wanted to get through legislature. It's like, this is a great thing. Thanks Obama. And it's going to connect to everything and your life will be so much easier once the IoT comes in and kidnaps your wife and children. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, sorry, what was the last thing? Oh, nothing. Light bulbs. They turn on whenever your music comes on. You're like, oh, okay. Forklift one more time. No pallets. Nope. Conspiracy. All right. One more topic. One more topic. We're running out of time. So internet of things is I will say one big trend. So there's like many audiences for CS keynotes. Chris Grant and I were talking about this yesterday. There are many audiences for CS keynotes. There's like the and you and I were talking about a little bit too yesterday. But Chris made a particular point about cars. There's us, right? The press. And we're going to communicate with the audience consumers in the modern era with your live streams and whatnot. There's the consumers themselves. So you got to put on a big show. Then there's like your stock analysts, I guess. Yeah, they're important. They might move some share prices around. I don't know what they do. Again, ethics in video games journalism prevents me from investing in these companies. So I will be poor forever. But your stock analysts are here in some way. Then there are like potential partners. You want to impress them. Put on a big show. And then like very like last at the end of all of that, it's like that you put on the show for yourself. Right? Right. And not only yourself, but like the one guy, the one company who holds your fate in his hands. And that person could work at your company. Right? It could be like a guy in your board of directors. Or he could be like, for example, the head of engineering at Audi, who's kind of like, maybe I should buy some cameras for my new smart cars. And so every single company at CES has talked about the Internet of Things, which is their big consumer play. And then they've said some crazy shit about smart cars for like the seven people. This guy's honking. Thank you. It's like a murderous duck. You're just rolling by us. We're done. That was the Virgcast. Our lives ended as they began. That's the noise I hear before I die. Bozo The Clownhawk. And you missed the final bucket, boy. It's time to die. Okay, Bozo. Oh man, that was good. I was really building there and now. No, no, ADAS. ADAS. ADAS. What does ADAS stand for? So all these companies are talking literally to the seven CTOs of every car company or engineering chiefs or advanced car information officer, whatever that title is at Ford and Chevy and Toyota. NVIDIA's like, we built it for you, the connected car. You, John Jones. And they just went on and on and on. I'm staring directly at you. And the. Terry, Scott, Sarah. And the acronym. Basically. No one else. And the acronym that this industry has chosen without any consultation to any of the many branding experts or social media gurus or even just neighbors who have kind of a frat boy sense of humor is ADAS. And it stands for? Advanced Driver Assistance Systems. Yeah. That's ADAS. And everyone, every single keynote has featured like a CEO, like a master of the universe CEO standing up there and being like, we're so excited about ADAS. And it's like, why? And supplicating. Has anyone heard? Please. Please. Please, Richard, buy my A-FAS. And it's like, all of them. Every single one of them. Like Sony today, Sony's like, Kaz Rai, who I think has done a job since 2012. I think he has survived pretty confidently. Despite having people who apparently just don't know security every step of the way. I mean, that's not- Fair. Yeah, but his great skill might be survival. Anyway, I say this with my voice booming over the Sony booth, like in the distance. Like literally, the Sony people are going to come over the walls now and take our small Ford. Don't worry if you punch at them, it hits them every time because they have no security. All I'm saying is Kaz Rai, who runs Sony, big, big concern, right, the man who can summon Tony Hawk, just the call of a hand, which he did today. Anyway, he was like super excited about advancements in imaging. You know, Sony makes the best cameras. And we were thinking, where can we put those cameras? A-Dass. Cars are going to have cameras. What if we put our cameras in these places and then put up an outline of a car with arrows to like places on a car where you might want to put cameras? He was like, A-Dass. We're pretty excited about it. And that was it. That was just like, that's much better though than NVIDIA, which, I mean, I want it. So there is a thing, I shouldn't imagine, too, because we have work to do. But it's called Games and Quickly or something like that. And people speed run games like five days, one after another after another. And right when NVIDIA started, somebody was like, I'm going to do a speed run on Uncharted. And the way they do it is they break through the walls. It's amazing. Everybody should go watch on the internet. It's a charity, too. So go do that. But what happened was they beat Uncharted before that. NVIDIA, I will say, NVIDIA, like, legendarily long, bad keynotes. And like, Jensen Wang is like a great CEO. He's done an admirable job leading NVIDIA. He's clearly very smart. And he just, taste in jackets. Here's what I'm going to say. If you're a man, and I'm guessing that you probably are because you're listening to our show. I want to change that. I want to open up. I want to be broader. Oh, here we go. They want us to leave. Test one, two. I hope that what you're coming back to us now after a really long beep. And I have some troubling news, which is that a forklift has killed Chris Plant. I'm a ghost. Zombie. Ghost Plant is here. Gives less of an F than before. That's not possible. All right. Now here's what I know about Jensen Wang. If you're a man, and you were a nerd, and you were a graphics card nerd, and you have reached the pinnacle of your industry, you too, I'm guessing, would dress like you were always about to get on a Ducati. Because that's how that dude dresses. And it's dope. And then he gives the most boring keynotes of all time. I mean, here's what they demoed yesterday. Dude could mansplain some processor chips. But here's what they demoed yesterday. And he did, I mean, many, many floating point units were killed in the making of that keynote. But they, NVIDIA built a system. I'll just give you one small example of how crazy this keynote was. They built an entire fake dashboard. Fake dashboard of a car. Right? Like, speedometer, tachometer, big infotainment. They kept saying the word infotainment in a way that just made me think at any point a CD ROM of like world capitals would be inserted into the car. Wait, there's Carmen Sandiego. There she is. Get her. And like, uh. It's not a Ducati. Beep, beep, beep. My entire career has been building up to this. Slowly beeping at Carmen Sandiego. In terms of jokes, that might be the most complicated joke of all time. Anyway, he, yeah, they showed that. So they were showing this thing and playing this thing. And they had like. They added textures. They added textures. Bamboo. To the graphics on the thing. And then they put it on real time lighting. Like in a world where the dominant design aesthetic is to get us flat and minimal, they're like, we can. I'm holding a chunk of carbon fiber. It's so sparkly. And I can just make this render it. I just put it here and it'll just render it up. And then like the entire dashboard will turn into sparkly carbon fiber. And then instead of like pushing a button to say, make it look like carbon fiber, they like had a piece of carbon fiber with an NFC chip on it or something. And they like sent it out the dashboard. It was something. But the whole time. That wasn't the craziest thing. The whole time they're doing this, the fake speedometer on their fake carbon fiber car just kept flooring it to like 140 miles an hour. And it would just stay there for a while. And they'd like give up. And it's like, dude, your fake car is trying to escape. It's just trying to run away from you. ADAS can't take it. Dude, it got deep into the ADAS game. Like. That was nice. This dude. Yeah. Needs some ADAS. No, can I say the craziest thing though that happened? The craziest thing is. Is anyone going to disrupt the forklift ADAS game? The craziest thing they did was not make the speedometer. Because that looks like it took like two or three days for somebody. The craziest thing they did was design an entire video game driving simulation. Of their parking garage. Of a parking garage that looked beautiful. They were very clear. That's their parking garage. It looked really nice. And it was like a Jeep just driving around the parking garage. It was using Maxwell software. No, the Jeep was learning to drive in a fake garage. It was puttering. Well, yeah. Why does that approach me? So in terms of like Terminator references that no one got, he's like, we've built a neural net processor that learns as it goes. And it's like, first it sees part of a wheel. And then it learns it's a wheel. And then it sees part of a car. And then that learning accelerates. The oscillated person. And the algorithms accelerate the learning logarithmically. And soon it will know everything. And they're like, we can detect a crosswalk sign from farther away than you could possibly see. And it's like, the next step is like, and then you see the pedestrians. And you identify them as threats. And then you launch the missiles at them. Like, that's where you're going, NVIDIA. I don't think you see it. I mean, I will say the other 8S thing about NVIDIA. They kept on showing it how well they could detect people and bikes and things. But then the cars had, they never got to the next part. And then the car does something. Yeah. Yeah. Many drivers on the road today can also detect pedestrians. Unfortunately, our cars can only go 160 miles per hour. Welcome to the hellscape. Looks like a human. Time to kill. So Qualcomm today had like, I mean, just had the complete opposite of the NVIDIA experience. Which is like, the new CEO of Qualcomm is like, he realized that Paul Jacobs gave the most epic, bad CS game of all time. So he's like, I'm just going to read numbers at you. Here are the number of field chips in my new chip line. Like, here are the number of FPGAs in your Snapdragon 8. And he just kept doing it. And then at the end, he's like, we think there's a lot of 8S applications. You too? Come on, man. All right. Is there anything else? This is your first CS. Give me the wrap up. It's been a couple days here now. I was like, I was like, a little not feeling it at first. It was a little, going to CS Unveiled is truly a trial by fire. No, I will say this. We have a lot of new people on the Verge team with us this year. We have a bunch of people who have been with us for four years. Like, Brian Bishop literally left the Verge, went to go work for The Hollywood Reporter, and then came back in time for CS. He's never leaving. And he always has to go to CS. So we have a lot of people who have been doing this with us for a long time. I was actually saying, this is my eighth CS, which is crazy. The first one I ever did was we weren't even staying near the convention center. We barely came here. It was strange. It was a long time ago. How many is this for you? I think it's eight. So like, it's weird to watch new people have their first experience at this. Because to me, this is like, I understand it. I know how it's laid out. That. Beep. You think after eight we'd figure out? Here's what I know. Yeah. If you want more awesome. I was going to just wrap it up. I was not even going to let you finish. I want to hear more about Chris's first experience. And I apologize for the messiness of this podcast. And the murderousness of this forklift driver. I like it. So far. And here's the thing. Can you just wait for the beeping? Can I just wait? Beep. But no, I think I like it. I think what was disorienting and upsetting to me about it at first was I come from where I thought were bad conferences. Like I always thought GDC, well GDC is pretty nice. But I thought E3 was like a shambles of GDC. Therefore, must be the worst conference in the world. I was very wrong. E3 is a masterpiece of an organization. And this is one, again, I saw CS unveiled first. Which is crazy town. It's a giant hall where people are like hiding underneath like a little rafters trying to ride. There's a part of CS unveiled that Casey and I just started referring to as shame alley. And we refused to walk. We were like, no, I'm not walking around. Oh, you mean where I went. Yeah. That's where I met the people from a free app called Jigzy who paid to be. They came to Las Vegas. They paid to be here. They paid to exhibit at CS. They paid the nice lady in what I will charitably refer to as a sexy Elvis impersonator costume to be there. And then they took a selfie with us. And they said, we're going to Jigzy this and send it right over to you. And we said, what does it mean to Jigzy something? And they said, we're going to turn this picture into a puzzle so that when you send it to your friend, they have to download our app to put together the puzzle to figure out what your selfie is. And I thought to myself, that's hope. What that is, that's when shame looks in the mirror, what it sees is hope. I'll go off that. Because I think I have the same feeling, but not quite as sad, is that what I liked about even the end of Unveiled was there are people here who made the product. It's like a tangible thing that I can touch. I mean, I wrote about the Stern pinball machine. And I've always loved pinball for that same reason versus even video games. And it's like, wow, this is a thing. And you made this thing for me. And maybe it's something like pinball that's obvious and will sell. Or maybe it's a beacon that somehow transmits to other beacons tied to cell phones without using a cell service like we saw briefly yesterday. And I'm never going to buy that. I don't hike enough. I'm not healthy. But that's the thing that people like, I can see the story, even if it's not real, of them being out and them getting lost and being like, hey, let's make this thing. And they went and made that thing. And then they spent a ton of money to get here and pray that that thing makes their life worth living and that they have a happy life. And there's some inner warmth in that that I don't always get at the other conferences that I go to that I can touch something and see the person who made it and see them being like, do you love it? And for it to be sincere, not just a PR person who's like, do you love it? Are you going to write about it? And it's like, no, I don't know. And there's people who are all over here. And what's funny about it is it's CES, unlike many other trade shows, the people who are at the booths and around are the people who made this stuff. Like, the guy who makes Sony, he's here. He's somewhere beyond those walls. And I will find you, Kaz. I will find you. He just lowers some raptors like Sting. The baseball bat hits the ball in the head. I think it's going to be good for us to do this show in the shadow of the Sony booth. We're going to have to move the booth around every year. We should do the next one in the shadow of the LG booth. So we're just like CES squat city. No, it's Samsung City. We should just troll a different company every time. Samsung City is like over there. So we also should wrap up. Yes. I don't know. It's time. Is it? Yeah. Sorry. We're going to do it again tomorrow and the day after that. And then we're going to then finally this man will have his revenge. That's right. I can hear him behind me if I don't want to turn around. He got out. He's coming to you. I'm not kidding. He got out. He's putting on gloves. I think we should wrap it up. That's it. That's the end of CES for today. We're going to be here tomorrow and the day after that. You can see all of this fantastic CES news. We are gradually killing ourselves bleeding out of our fingers for you at theverge.com. You can watch our videos at youtube.com. And there's like a billion already on there. We're doing about 20 a day. That's where we're at. Everything we talked about today is in video form. Actually well better done on video on YouTube. And fantastic and beautiful. So go there. Follow us on Twitter at The Verge. Snapchat something like I'm the Verge or something. I don't know. Snapchat. Follow Sam. You should just let me do this. I'm just saying. Engage. I was doing really well. You were. It's the real verge. Okay. All right. Keep going. No, no. I'm done. Instagram at theverge. All of us on Twitter. And there's actually a post on the site that you should go to. It's called Let's Be Social. Oh sure. Just Google Let's Be Social because our search engine on our site is great. Let's see. What else? I'm here all night. That's it. Here's what happened today. You can find me at the Comedy Cellar at 3.30 on Wednesday afternoons. Steffi, I love you. I miss you. Ken, Kathy, great to have you here in my heart and spirit. Tip your servers everybody. Tip your servers everybody. And Polaroid. I'm out. Bye.