 Hey, and welcome to the Vergecast from CES 2012 day one. Are we day one? Finally day one. Officially day one. No, we made it. I'm alive. I'm Josh Dupolsky. I'm Paul Miller. I'm Nilay Patel. And I'm Joanna Stern. Yes! We're not the morning news team. The Las Vegas morning news team. And we are here from beautiful downtown Las Vegas. Sunny out. Right on the Sunset Strip. Where... Love that joke just for... On Midtown New York. Yeah. I mean Midtown New York, the fake Midtown New York. Well, I'm in Paris. Yeah, we're in New York, Paris. We should do this from different casinos and just be in different places. We're here from beautiful DeBellagio on the Sunset Strip in Las Vegas. What's the one with the fake sky? I really like that one. Oh, that's the Venetian. The Venetian. Dude, I was there tonight. I was there tonight and it is truly... Awesome. It's awesome and really surreal. Yeah. When you're there at night... They have the gondolas. Yes, they have the gondolas, but just the sky effect. If you guys don't know what we're talking about, there's a hotel here in Las Vegas that has fake sky. I think they even have fake clouds. Yeah, it's fake clouds. There's nothing. It's fake Venice, right? Fake Venice. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it has fake Venice. It's got canals. It's got canals. It's got a little... There's mums. It's got a little Caesars. It's slowly sinking into the ground. Absolutely in town. I was walking through here. I was at the in town restaurant. The Leaning Tower Pizza is nearby. Yeah. And the Leaning Tower Pizza has a Domino's in it. No, but what I said... It does smell really good. I got in the car today and I said to Chris and Michael, our editorial assistant, I said that Las Vegas is like one big cheesecake factory. And if you really think about it, that is exactly what Vegas is like. Because there's so many things on the menu. No, because everything is phony. So much cheesecake. Everything is fake. It's like fake bricks. I thought you meant like the cheesecake factory. There's also a lot of cheesecake here. Cheesecake factory has so much cheesecake in the menu. Anyhow, we are live. We are live on the official... I'm really just puzzling through the... We're live on the official first day of CES and we are at the Sony booth right now. So your contention is the cheesecake factory is completely overlooking. Somebody just yelled. He meant cheesecake. I think that was Carmen. Was that Carmen? I was thinking that. Anyway. Was that Carmen yelling? I don't know. No, it was Howard Stringer. Oh, Howard Stringer. Howard Stringer was yelling like a woman on stage. That'd be awesome. Anyhow, we're actually on the show floor. We're at the Sony... It's the broadcast tower. We're at the Sony broadcast tower. And I'm not afraid to say this. I'm not afraid to say that it's fairly dope. Sony has a lot of money apparently and they have spent it on a beautiful... By the way, we're not sponsored by Sony, but I will say this is a beautiful... They're just being nice to us. I just want to stay here. I don't want to go back to the trailer. Sony trailers are way better than ours. And when I get home, I want to buy all of their products. I'm going to get a Sony Blu-ray player, no question. But we're here on the first day of CES and we're going to talk about... Do you mind? Do you mind? We're going to talk about consumer electronics. We're going to talk about technology. We're going to talk about... I would put our chances of talking about those things at like 50%. And that's why I would put our chances. I'm drinking, in case you're wondering. Last night after the podcast, the Verge cast, if you will, I broke my New Year's resolution to not drink. I believe it's January 10th. How did it feel? It felt amazing. When the alcohol started coursing through my body. I knew something was different today. I knew it. I just said to myself, this is where I'm supposed to be. And I haven't stopped drinking since. It's been a good day at CES. No, but let's get into the news. We should talk about the news. Joanna, you did a ton of stuff today. Yeah. I actually spent the entire day with Intel. And I think that's kind of what the news was today. There were some other things. I think Intel was the biggest thing. There was other news today. But I think the biggest thing was the news. There was other news today. But I think today was the biggest news of today by far was Intel's phone stuff. They showed off, what, one phone, the Lenovo phone, and then they got a Motorola. And their prototype phone. They have like a... Yeah, Intel showing a prototype phone is like... Don't make me go down this road. Can you explain what they announced? So they announced Medfield, which has actually been announced, but that it's finally coming to the news. By the way, it's very dry in Vegas. I'm just going to apply some lip balm while you're talking about Medfield. Go ahead. Go on. It's just really... You're getting ready for it. Weird. This is weird. He's preparing his lips to talk about Medfield. Medfield. Go. So yes, they talk about Medfield, but they talk about like a million times. But they're finally ready to ship it in phones. Like, Paul Adelini came out during the press conference and was like, it is ready for phones. We're going to be in phones. Intel's going to be in phones. They've been talking about Medfield for what? Like three years? Medfield's been a year. They had the Morristown phone, which never came out. Morristown never came out. Is that the thing we're trying to take out? Yeah. Yeah. So they said, here's the phone. This is going to be a shipping device with Morristown. They first showed their reference design phone, which is a pretty high-end phone in terms of specs. And they're like, this is what we're showing people. This is what you can do with it. It's running Android. It's got Medfield. But that's like... They've been doing that for so long. Okay, they've done that for years. That's their concept that will never ship. Yeah. That's the concept that will never ship. Then they had Lenovo come out. What? I don't even... I don't... Hi, Trent. Hey, everybody. Trent, our podcast producer. What else happened at Lenovo? Then Trent came out. You and Chad are now in a microphone fight. And Trent was like, I'm going to make a Medfield phone. Why don't you turn it around so it's not backwards? It keeps on going lower and lower. There you go. How low does it really go? Why don't you put it on the other side, though? Oh, that one's pretty good, actually. Okay. Bye, Trent. All right. See you, Trent. See you, Trent. So they had another phone. They had another phone? That was truly weird. So then Lenovo came out. Right. Oh, now your mic fell off. And they were like, we are making a phone. We are going to be the first to ship the phone. Trent, we got a problem here. Come back. It fell off, I don't know. This is going so well, Joanna. This is why Intel couldn't release a phone. What's happening? Intel couldn't release a phone because Trent kept coming on. This is truly the Moore's town of microphone placements. Oh, God. He's going to do it. Can you see anything? Go on. Yeah, I can see fine. I got to go. Yeah? Keep going. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go. Keep going. Yeah. Keep going. Really? This is our problem. Trent, can you come back? He's gone. He just took off, man. Can you hand us the glasses on the way back? I can't talk to Josh without glasses. Go on. I feel as if you cannot see me. I don't even understand. Are you going to just climb up on here? And then hats. My God. Do you want to give Trent his hat back or are you going to keep it? Trent, you ready for this? Wow. Yeah. Wow. All right. All right. Guys. So there was another phone. Hard news, guys. There was another phone. Hard news. I don't have time with Lenovo yet. Right. Right, right, right, right, right, right. There's the prototype. Yes. And then there was a real phone. So then Lenovo came out. Lenovo. Lenovo came out. Lenovo. Lenovo came out on the stage and they announced their phone and they're going to be the first to ship a Medfield phone. It's going to go to China only because Lenovo doesn't like to ship phones here. Wait, wait. So Lenovo hates the US. Lenovo hates the US. It's a known fact. Yeah. It's not called the LeFono. It's called the K800. That is the worst thing. Much catchier. And it is... Well, the Lumia 800, Lumia 900 down to the K800. It looks like a nice phone. We have a hands on up about it. We like it. Lenovo LeFono. Just think about it. No, no. So there's no indication that we're going to get a Medfield phone in the US? There is now that I'm getting to the next part. All right. I'm very excited. I feel like I'm telling a story. But wait. I'm very excited. There's more. There's more. Oh yeah. You love the Transformer. Ice cream sandwich, guys. Ice cream sandwich. Do you have ice cream sandwich? I think he means ICS. Do you get the update? No. He has OS. Although I think Apple is trying to push a firmware update to me. But the last one was really bad. Yeah. A lot of fragmentation. So then this was like... It was actually kind of shocking. I think a lot of people in the audience were kind of like, why is Sanjay Jha showing up here? He just likes to wander around though. Yeah. He was all around. I mean, it's Vegas. It's late. He took the stage to announce that Motorola is going to... Well, they've signed a multi-device, multi-year deal with Intel. They're going to bring tablets and phones with Intel's Medfield chip out of the next year, which is huge. Did they mention any devices? They didn't mention any devices. It was just vague. But I did meet with Intel earlier in the day. There's iboard too. There's iboard. I met with Intel earlier in the day. I wasn't as shocked at the Intel press conference because I kind of knew about it. But I met with Intel earlier and they said they're going to talk more about it at Mobile World Congress. Okay. But let me ask you a question. So Motorola has been pushing super thin, obviously super thin. Yeah, you love your Razr. Best phone I've ever had. Yeah. And then they have the Razr Max. You're going to love it even more. Oh my God. The Razr Max has a 3300 milliamp battery. Yeah. That's insane. I just wish I had one more. That's insane. 3300 is more than double every panel. M-A-X-X-X or maybe XXL. I wish it was M-A dot XXX. I mean, use the question. Oh, that's pretty good. If those phones are like Motorola's like Halo phones, flagship phones, are they going to be able to build those phones with Intel? That's the question. Because they can clearly do them with ARM. The question, I'm not worried about the speeds. Whatever I saw today looked pretty fast. It was running stock Android so you really don't really know. But the big question is battery life. ICS? No, it was running 2.3. But they said ICS update is coming. Oh yeah. This Lenovo. I got it guys. I'm living the dream. I love the color. I love the coming ICS update. This Lenovo phone, we got hands on and this is not the thinnest phone ever. No. No. And neither is the reference design. It's chunky. Right. Both are chunky and they said we can get as thin as ARM. Yeah, it's cool. Really? Yeah. But I don't know if they believe that. They hope. They hope. Yeah. Eventually. We're having our other phone. Want to go have another? Yeah, I do. I do. Let's go to the Samsung booth and have it there. I want to have a very serious music competition. Oh my God. Wow. We're going to rival you guys. I'm going to be better skin than you guys. Yeah. Nah. Are you? Is that racism? I think it is. That was ant fragmentation. Better skin. I mean think about it. I think you should be very upset. It's fragmentation. I'm fine though because I'm super white. Anyway. I was pretty excited about the news. But here's the thing. Why are you so excited? I don't even know if I'm that excited. I'm just happy that it happened. Is it because of the news outlets? If you're in this industry, you've been following the fact that Intel is showing something different. Are you excited because Intel is finally going to bring something to market that's a smartphone? Like a chip on a smartphone? Yeah. I have to say for consumer appeal, there's something like... They were showing some stuff working with laptops and that sort of ecosystem. I think Intel could sort of make a dent there. They have their wireless display technology and they showed swiping something to a TV and they're now selling these TVs with Wi-Di in them. Did they mention Wi-Di on Medfield? They did. The Lenovo they said would have wireless display. Might or will? Might would? Yeah, because the CEO said, we'll have wireless display. It was a little bit not best English. He said it during the live blog. That's one thing to say, we'll make all of our chipsets play together. But Wi-Di is like one tiny feature of Windows laptops that people don't care about. NFC, they can put the NFC... They're already doing NFC. I don't want to say, wait, because we're going to bring Chris Ziegler out here, but we actually had the chance to sit down with Sanjay Jha and some other people and talk about what Motorola is doing. He talked about Intel. He didn't want to say... He couldn't say everything, obviously, that he knew about their relationship. But the indication, the vibe I got was that they're not so much interested in Medfield as they are stuff that Intel has down the road. The sense that I got was that they're very interested in the technology that Intel is developing right now that you're not going to see for a few years in phones, or maybe a year or two years in mobile devices. But that stuff would be leapfrogging what other people are working on. They're getting it now. They're opening... Why are you giving me that look? Chris, what's the technology that he made reference to? There's 3D transistors. Yeah, 3D transistors. I remember. He was like, that technology we're very interested in, and the roadmap looks really interesting down a little further out. So why sign something now? Because they want to be in there and partnering with them early on. And on the ground floor. On the ground floor, so they can see an explosive growth and profits. I feel like Intel's paid. Well, they're owned by Google. That's the weird thing about that. Right, right. The question is, how does Google play into this relationship? I think Google wants to be free of the stranglehold of Qualcomm, TI, Samsung. See, I think it's money. Of it's many, many, many. Joanne agrees with me. I think it's money. I definitely think it's money. Motorola is struggling, actually. Yeah, exactly. I mean, cash rules everything around this industry. There's no question about that. And Intel has an insane marketing budget. I would bet you that the next one is going to be HTC. Intel is like, look, we've got to get these processors out there, and if you're a smartphone manufacturer, look, these aren't thin enough. The power saving isn't good enough. Let's wait for the next generation. They're saying it's on par, by the way. I forgot to mention that. I've heard. The battery life is on par. They say it's on par. I've heard from sources. Familiar with the matter. On par normally means worse. No, no, that's right. The rumors that it's not the performance and the battery life are not as good as the current Snapdragon. Dual core? Single core? Not just Snapdragon, but ARM. But hyper-threading. Okay, so there's another thing that Motorola talked about was that the hyper-threading was very significant, and the dual core, the multiple cores are largely BS, essentially. Is that a big thing to say? I mean, Motorola was like first on the dual core LTE. Well, I'm paraphrasing. The indication I got was that... Hard core. Hard core. That's probably the Intel's new... That's pretty good. But I'm just saying the indication I got was that the dual core, quad core race, and everybody's been saying this, by the way, here at CES, that the dual core versus quad core and whatever is all essentially garbage. That it really isn't about that. What they've been doing with some of these ARM chips is having a really slow, low power core that they can switch to for low power mode. I think that's much more... The companion core. Things like email. Intel does have some stuff where it's dynamic and Intel can clock the cores down dynamically to save cores. They can clock those cores all day long. I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know if that sounds threatening or sexy. Sexy. Sexy threatening. I don't know. In the desktop processors, Intel can kind of choose which speed it's core... We should start a band called the Sexy Threatening. I don't know. I don't think that's coming up. I think we have a conversation discrepancy where Delia and I are able to have a separate conversation. You guys are so far apart. This is the problem with four. I'm just going to... Because who will Paul talk to after? His company, three is a crowd. Paul could talk to his imaginary friend. Four is upsetting. Do you sometimes talk with your imaginary friend when I'm not on the podcast? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have another. It's called my rabid fan base. It's called my robot imaginary friend. I'm sorry, Chad's trying to use a direction on camera. He says we're doing great. We're doing great. We're doing a great job. What is the issue? I think we have to run a play now. No. I don't... What are you doing? I don't understand. What is that? That's definitely... What is going on? All right, Chad. Thank you for that input. He wants us to go past second base on to third base. Oh, right. Let's stop at third. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Let's talk about Ultrabooks. Ultrabooks. Okay, look. If the story of today was Intel on phones... Do you want to talk about my ice cream sandwich tablet? No. I want to talk about Ultrabook. Oh, Ultrabooks. Let's talk about Windows PC. What are those? What are you doing? What are you doing there? I don't know. This is extremely strange. I don't like that. Again, sexy or threatening? Who knows? Ultrabooks. Intel on phones. I find that threatening. I find it sexy. Who knows? I'm going to go now. Goodbye. Can you talk about Ultrabooks for two minutes? Ultrabooks are... I am so tired of Ultrabooks. What? How many Ultrabooks I've seen? You're a laptop person. Do you know how many Ultrabooks I've seen in the past few days? How many? Name them all and tell us about them. I mean, maybe at least 10. This is units. Wow. How can you handle all those Ultrabooks? How is it possible you can even take in so many Ultrabooks at once? That's a lie. Lenovo has at least 10 just on their own. That's just like iteration. No. No, that's a lie. So you're not excited about the Ultrabook? I am very excited about Ultrabooks. So, actually... You love laptops. Tomorrow, I do love laptops. That's a known fact about you. I do love them so much. If you had a trading card, one of your factoids on the back would be that you love laptops. You love laptops. She didn't get a tablet until it looked like a laptop. This isn't mine. Oh, where are you going? Way to kill the joke. Terrible. Well, today, Dell announced an Ultrabook, which I like a lot. That was the only Ultrabook actually announced today. What is it called? The XPS 13. Wow. The only important Ultrabook. Really daring naming scheme they've got there. Yeah, I mean... The Dell Book Air. That's what they should have gone with. So that's like what's been going on with Ultrabooks at the show is like there's sort of these different categories now within the Ultrabook category. So people are getting into lower end ones for like $900 or less, some even around like $799. And this is like the PC market. Yes, I know. But it's expanding now to Ultrabook category. Well, because right off the bat, like when they first showed them up at IFA, like none of them even broke $1000. Right. They were like right around $1000. So is this more Intel subsidies? $999. Here's my question. They didn't talk about that today at the press conference, but they talked about it yesterday. And yeah, they are. I mean, they were talking about their $30 million fund and all that sort of stuff. I mean, Intel's just pushing this so hard. So is this CS basically like Intel struggles for extreme relevance across the industry, right? Because they're pushing Ultrabooks as you don't need a tablet. Intel's definitely trying to wedge itself back into the conversation. Yeah, into the conversation. And I mean, of course, like people are talking about ARM and Windows 8. They like part like I would say half of the presentation when they were talking about Windows 8 and like what's coming with Ultrabooks today, they kept emphasizing like you're going to be able to run your old desktop apps on here. So they know like ARM is coming after them. So they're talking about Ultrabooks in the sense that they're future proof? Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, it's strange. Yes. Like they mentioned it like a number of times. You're going to be able to run your desktop apps. Like, you know, this is Intel saying this? Yeah, Intel saying it. All of your apps will work on here. They said that like a number of times. On Ultrabooks? That's good. So that's good. No, on Windows 8. They're basically hinting the desktop apps. They're hinting Windows. Right. On Intel, but not on ARM. Yeah. They're implying like when you get an ARM one, you're not going to be able to run. We know that's a fact. We know that's a fact. Yeah, we know that. Intel's making that their marketing. Well, they should. They should be. That's all they have to cling on to at this point. Yeah. Is the fact that when you get an ARM tablet or Ultrabook or whatever it is, it will not run the stuff you paid for for Intel, for x86. But this is the same scare tactics we've seen with every big OS change where they go like you it's backwards compatible. And I think there's like backwards compatibility is an overrated quality. Who wants to go backwards? Let's go forward. You paid for Photoshop, f you. Pay for Photoshop again. I would be upset if I got like- By the way, who wants to go backwards, let's go forwards is like- I've just switched- You should just walk around CS just saying. Yeah, sure. I'd be pissed. Yeah. Would you be pissed about what? Like I just had to switch my laptop a number of times in the last month. And if I wanted to switch to a new OS and some of them didn't work- You know, if you're using an open source OS like Ubuntu, that wouldn't be a problem because you can just download whatever you need. Oh, you're using that now? Is that your daily driver? No, I wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole because it's buggy. So do you compile your own app? It's daily driver. You're Ubuntu all day. You compile your own app. I write my own applications and compile them for whatever system- Whichever processor. Whatever architecture. Yeah. Yeah, Michael just lost it. Yeah, Michael's like, why? That was fine to you? He's like, he's holding his face, he's turning red. I know. You just love that. So the thing- Yeah. I don't know. I don't get it. I understand huge lulls. I understand that Intel needs to seal up this messaging and scare everybody about going to ARM, but at the same time, shouldn't Ultrabooks sell themselves? Wait, hold on. Ultrabooks are just laptops. Yeah, that's exactly right. But they're like a regular person. I feel like people have wanted- And this is just them saying, we're going to make laptops later later. People like you. And we want to destroy the old mainstream laptops. But the MacBook Air is probably one of Apple's best selling computers of all time. The new one. Yeah. Yeah. The current generation MacBook Air. But what I'm saying is, is like, they're not just going after the Air. And that's what I was trying to talk about. They're going after laptops. They're going after laptops. They want to make mainstream ones. So like the ones that are like lower down, they're like thicker and they've got optical drives. They don't want you to say, I want an Ultrabook. They want you to say, I want one of those thin laptops. So they want you to say Ultrabook because they love that name so much. Stop interrupting me. Okay. They want you to say, I want one of those thin laptops. And then your buddy says, oh, an Ultrabook? That's exactly what they want you to do. And then you get in a car, you drive to the bus, and then you legally divorce your buddy. They said this during the press conference. This was a quote. And you go and buy the laptop you want. It's not a laptop. It's an Ultrabook. That was a quote from the press conference. Yeah, but that's just marketing bullshit. Okay. Also, Will.i.am said that Ultrabooks- Will.i.am is a puppet, an Intel puppet. Okay. What are they? The new what? Did they play I Got a Feeling when Will.i.am came on stage? Yes. Go ahead. He's just like called it. It's obvious. What did he say? The new ghetto, what's the- Blasters. Blasters. What? He said this. Will.i.am said what? They're the new ghetto Blasters. Ultrabooks are the new ghetto Blasters. Yes. Will.i.am was on cocaine, drunk, and also getting paid by Intel. Yeah. To say whatever. That is true. That is true. On his script. That is true. Vlad got very mad because he said these have the worst speakers and I don't understand. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. That's a load of shit. Okay. Let's just get right. Two swears and one fuck. No, I don't want to cut any- Are we allowed to swear in the Sony booth? You know what? It's- Yeah, can you swear in the Sony booth? Sony's raw. Sony's very raw. Yeah. Will Smith was on stage the other day. Carmen. Carmen was on stage recently. Let's just talk about the celebrities I've seen. I didn't want to say that- That's been the highlight of my life. I don't want us to base our opinions of the Ultrabooks on what Will.i.am said on his script for Sony. Are they going to be able to make- Sorry, not for Sony, for Intel. I'm sorry. The $600 Windows laptop, which I think is the dominant laptop in the world, right? Is that going to be an Ultrabook next year? Probably. Definitely. What is really Intel accomplishing? That's my question. I don't know, but I want to talk about some of the other ones that I like. What is Intel accomplishing? It would be great. They're pushing the entire industry towards- I think they want people to associate Ultrabook the way they think of MacBook. I think they want to have a brand, a thing that they go, this is connected to Intel. They had Pentium. They had Centrino. It's a certain kind of PC. This is the next- They want to make the new Netbook. But Pentium and Centrino are from the 90s, if I'm not mistaken. No, this is the next one. I get it. It's their trademark. No, right, but Ultrabook is more, it goes beyond a processor. It reaches into popular- I completely agree. They want to get it into popular. Intel is spectacular at marketing these things. Intel inside, Pentium. These are brands that people- And they want Ultrabook to be the thing. You go into a store and you say, I want an Ultrabook. You will definitely get an Intel machine. You will not get AMD. You will not get ARM. But the truth of it is, based on what we saw today, or sorry, not today, but the last couple of days, there are going to be a couple of regular laptops, and then everything else is going to basically be an Ultrabook. Because you don't need to make the gaming PC anymore for the average consumer. You're making, it runs Windows, it's great with IE, it's great with running basic gaming. Hey, we made a Windows version of Cut the Rope or whatever. God, I've seen so many Cut the Rope demos. Office, great, you're boom, you're there. That's enough. They don't need to- And they're talking about Ivy Bridge, which is going to have better graphics, so you're not going to have to get a thicker laptop. So yeah, I mean- They strongly want to create this idea of the Ultrabook as a thing. They've accomplished like a couple years ago. My question, when I say what have they accomplished, is they're just selling more laptops. I don't think they're going to sell- What do you think they'll want to accomplish? What do you think? No, no, no. Let me explain how this works. When Intel puts chips in the laptops- Let me finish this thought. Then OEM sells the laptops. But there's always laptops. I mean, that's great. They did Ultrabooks. They're not fighting this. They're not- They're not getting that. Well, that's Medfield. That's Medfield. That's what they're going to do. But that's not Ultrabooks. That's what I'm saying. This whole Ultrabook- Well, actually- Yeah, Medfield is not Ultrabooks. I agree with you. But so this whole initiative, all this money, all this effort- UltraTabs. UltraTabs. They're going to put that towards tablets when they have the right chip for that too. Tabbooks. So you're saying Ultrabooks are going to turn into tablets? No. I think the reality is that it doesn't matter if Intel says we have a great processor for tablets because until Apple adopts- You still need a laptop. Until Apple adopts their great tablet architecture- Well, Apple's making their own chips. Well, not necessarily Apple. No, I know. But I'm- Or if Intel pulls off what they did with Ultrabook where they've got four or five manufacturers ready to go with a great Intel-powered tablet and then they can start branding that. No, but I disagree because- Why would the tablet replace the laptop? They don't think that's going to happen. It won't. What are you doing? What's happening? What are you watching? What's happening? What's happening? Stop. All right. A video started playing. The pre-roll is working. I don't think they're going to do anything because their business is right now, it's laptops. Okay, so here's what I'm saying. That's a great business for them. Yeah. And they're obviously moving, they're trying to push that business. But I think overall in the industry, that business is diminishing overall. Laptops, right? Yeah. Well- Yes. I still need a laptop. I think people still need laptops. Well- It's a truck. They need a truck. Yeah. Not everybody needs a truck. Some people want a car. If you accept the biggest growth- Some people want a motorcycle. Some people need a motorcycle. Some people want to just use a scooter. What is a jet ski? For a skateboard. A jet ski goes on water. Why have we had this conversation before? Water is a liquid. Liquid is available- Bad, we've had this conversation before. In a variety of forms. Mostly just Gatorade though. How'd you get from jet ski to Gatorade? Don't worry about it. Pedialyte is also water. Pedialyte? Yeah. All right. When she's at that age, you know when women start thinking about babies. Or when they're hungover and they drink it. Pedialyte. I have a friend that drinks it when she's hungover. You know what? Let's be honest. You're thinking about babies. I love babies. I actually said in the OLPC XO post that I am not pregnant. What is going on? We're TMZ. Stern is not pregnant. Hold on, wait. You're not? I said that this wasn't meant for my children or my unborn children because they're not. It's not meant for children here. Well, unborn means that you're pregnant but they're not born. And then I put in parentheses, I am not pregnant. Then you should be using unborn. My unborn children. It sounded right. Can we quickly just unpack what you meant? If it's not for your children. That's the OLPC XO laptop. I think the clock is ticking. For kids in the unborn world. The developing world. The kids in the unborn world. The kids in the developing world. My kids are not going to live in the developing world. I think what Joanna is saying, let me... She's saying she's the one who says, and her children are going to be pregnant. Can I try to paraphrase this? I mean, hopefully. Her children are going to have Ultrabooks. My kids are going to have Ultrabooks and unfortunately kids in the rest of the world are going to have XO tablets. I think what Joanna is saying is... Not that it's a bad tablet. Well, unfortunately they'll have XO tablets. Yeah, because they live in the developing world. What's wrong with XO tablets? That's what they were meant for. They were built for that. What's wrong with them though? There's nothing wrong with them. Well then why did you say unfortunately? I mean, I wouldn't want one. Oh, so what's wrong with them? I mean, they're for kids. Nicholas Negroponte right now, by the way, is watching this live stream. Oh, he's killing me. He's very upset. He's very upset. They're like the size of an encyclopedia. I think what Joanna is trying to say is... I am not pregnant. I mean, I'm pregnant with an Ultrabook. The clock is ticking. Okay? Time is limited to make this thing happen. She's looking for a guy, the right guy. And I'm going to leave CES pregnant. Oh my God. Trent is just like fist pumping. There's literally like a large group of people here who are... Is this an awkward conversation? It's incredibly awkward. I don't think it's awkward. It's awesome is what it is. I feel not awkward at all. I'm also leaving CES pregnant. Yeah. Let's do it. Wait, not like that though. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger? I'm going to find another guy. What is going on? First off, I don't want you guys to do it unless you're legally married. I don't think we got to start. We got to turn around. You know, we got to either get an across the commercial or a bar. And then Chris is going to get in a sexual harassment. We should get an accord. Just say, before we cut to commercial. We should get an accord right now. We did not get a chance to hear what Ultrabooks you actually like. Yes, I'd like to talk about that. Go ahead. Let's do it. What Ultrabook will you buy a child? Quiet. Go ahead. The EXO laptop. No, no, seriously. Your Ultrabook picks though. My Ultrabook picks. So I really like four of them. It's kind of hard for me to pick. What is wrong with us that we just transitioned from talking about you guys doing it and getting pregnant to you? I never talked about us doing it. Is your dirty mind... Is it? Yeah. Is it my dirty mind everyone? That we just transitioned from talking about? Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Can we pull the camera on Sam real quick? Joanna. He has no credibility. Look at your hair. Not now. It's too soon. Okay. Joanna. Sturn. Joanna. Gross. Stern. Yes. Ultrabook picks. All right. I'm going to name four. We're going to have something up on the site tomorrow with some more picks. Yeah. Can you name one and then say your standout about each one? Yes. Go ahead. One word. I'm very excited. You can say like a phrase. For the cheaper one, it's not that cheap. It's $9.99. The Dell XPS 13. I like it. It seems like a good... What's the screen resolution? Yeah. You're not going to be happy with that. 1366. Get out of my face with that. I know. I know. But it feels nice. Go on. All right. Second one, a little bit more expensive. Series 9. Good resolution. The Samsung. What's the cost? Is that it? Ultrabook? It's $13.99. Can I just say... Can I just say 30-inch MacBook Air like fully specced out? Yeah. And it's like what? That's pretty expensive. $14. $17? Yeah, it's like $17. I'm just saying the Series 9... I think it starts at $1,200. What are the specs? Samsung Core i5, 4 gigs of RAM, 128 gig SSD. So the specced out MacBook Air 13 is Core i7. 256 SSD. No. Yeah, it's Core i7. The Core i5, 4 gigs of RAM. The Core i5, 4 gigs of RAM. 128 starts at $13.99. Yeah. It's the same price. They're going toe to toe. All right. Keep going. Toe to toe. And what do you like about it? So-to-toe. Yeah, the Series 9. It feels really nice, really thin. How's the trackpad? The trackpad is a little bit better than the first one. I haven't played it. If something gets your juices flowing like the trackpad is a little bit better than the first one. I know. It's definitely not MacBook Air quality. I'll say that. The trackpad or the machine? The trackpad. What is MacBook Air quality? The MacBook Air. What else? In terms of trackpad, I don't think anything. Still not even have the C. Can we just say Joanna into PCs freely at bits? I will say- Not even a trackpad up to snuff with the MacBook Air trackpad. Right. And something I'm going to write also is how much better Windows works on air. The touchpad works perfectly fine with Windows. So Apple's doing something great with the hardware and I don't know what's going on. Well, I'm the driver. I make the drivers. Continue though. Let's talk trucks. Okay. We did the Series 9. I really like the Envy. The Envy 14. The Spectre? Yeah. I mean, it is thick and it is heavy because there's glass all over it. That makes no sense to me. It's cool. You know the best way to protect something? Gorilla Glass. Wrap it in glass. Gorilla Glass. Wrap it in glass. Gorilla. Is that the same glass that breaks when you drop an iPhone? Yes. No, the iPhone doesn't have Gorilla Glass. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. On the back. I thought they had their own like- No, it's Gorilla Glass. On the back it is. It's been proven it's Gorilla Glass. It's in the book. It's in the book. It's in the book. I'm going to read the book. It's Gorilla Glass. Read the book. Basically, Apple- I don't have a large enough bag to put that book in. Anyway, I used to really like the laptop. That one is also $1499 and I really like that. It just has a lot of cool stuff in it and the display is awesome. 1600 by 900, radiance display, really nice display. So those are the three? I thought they were four. Four. Four. And then the fourth is not really an Ultrabook. It's that Lenovo Yoga thing. What about the Vizio? That thing is really weird. What about the Vizio? I didn't see the Vizio. You liked it. That has the 1600 by- the high res screen. That has high res. The Vizios have 16 by 9. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm all over that. Yeah. The Vizios, I don't think we can like- it's really interesting. They did a good job. They feel nice. We don't know if they're coming. We use the keyboard. And like they're coming out. I mean- They're not coming out for a while. I don't really- They're coming out. You think they're coming out? Yeah. How do you know? I know for a fact. What? Instinct. Wait, what's coming out? The Vizio laptops. I mean, I don't trust them. I mean, we never saw their phones. The phones are hard. The tablet was really bad. Laptops are easy. No. The laptop's on the market. Not anyone can make a laptop. Oh, really? Not anyone? Not anyone. Have you ever been to China? Have you ever been to CES? Yeah, have you ever been to CES? I mean, they can make them, but they're not good. Well, that wasn't our question, was it? I think that the- I mean- No, look. They put out the tablet because they didn't have to go through the carrier. They could not put out the phone because they had to go through the carriers. It was too hard. Yeah. They told me they took all their engineers and put them from the phone to the PC. I think PCs are coming out. My only reservation about it is that keyboard. Because it looks so insane. What about the touchpad on the- I mean, it was all wonky, but it's like- It's really hard to tell how other touchpads are also when you're doing a quick hands-on. That's insane. Yeah. I mean, they said May, June, somewhere in there. Look, I'll forgive them a wonky, multi-touch implementation during the demo at CES. They get honorable mention. But when that thing comes out, yeah, I think it's fair. When that thing comes out, we have to know if the keyboard is any good and if that trackpad works. But overall, there's promise. On that note- We will- I have one more. One more. Or maybe it depends. Yeah, that things really cool. And that's like the future of Ultrabooks. Why do you like that? Because it's cool. Form factor innovation? Form factor is cool. Yeah. And great name. Awesome name. You know what I've always loved- You're not going to want to have a keyboard. I don't want to have this keyboard glued to the back of this tablet every time I use it as a tablet. Right. That is going to be annoying. This is what it's like. So, why do you like it? Because it's just cool. And Windows 8 works really well. I'm really excited about Windows 8. How it works- We've got to get Tom on tomorrow to talk about Windows 8. Yeah, we should have Tom Warren come on and talk about that. Yeah, I mean we were we've been playing with some Windows 8 stuff that we've got a he got a T Got an awesome exclusive. Yeah, I mean you win is a beta Do you wanna what's a few new to take on on Microsoft like not not even caring about Windows like they're hiding Windows 8 at the Show basically, I mean, I think they are time. Yeah, that's why they're bailing from I think next month. They have a big announcement It's time. They don't want to ruin it right now They want to be the focus at next month and they're not talking about hardware. Anyway right now They're not gonna talk about hardware till the fall or end of the year. I mean end of like well, I think what's really mean But and last year at this show they announced Windows on ARM. It was I mean it went Yes, they were one of the worst announcements ever. Yeah, it was a fizzle and a pre-announcement a year later I mean a year later that I think that announcement has like kicked in Intel like into gear, right? They're doing all the stuff. Well, yeah, but Microsoft actually still has I mean they're like here's some Windows 8 It's gonna run on what's really fascinating about show. What's really crazy about that is that you know? We went to Qualcomm before the show and we talked to Paul Jacobs the CEO and he was talking about that You know Qualcomm can now competing with Intel. Yeah, it's driving Windows 8 devices and now Intel's is reversing it and making totally Android device, you know give me power Android I mean, I think I was talking to a crazy foot someone who I've known for a while at the at the Intel thing We were he started covering this industry when there were UMPC's And mids and I was like, it's really Thomas Ricker wasn't it? It wasn't Thomas Ricker, but it was Steve Payne chippy and he used to cover it like mids and UMPC's and I was like basically this is like Intel coming full circle Just realizing it had to put a phone and that they were too early Like they had to make a phone early on I think you're being a little apologetic on their behalf No, I mean, I think Intel knew that like mobile was a thing They just like took too long to get here if anybody else didn't have the technology and right or the idea It's arm Intel owned they made the mid own scale. They had an arm license and they blew it Yeah, so it's but they were talking about these portable internet devices and like like they have little app things They were showing all these things a while ago. They just didn't know how to do it, right? Then you're right. They didn't have the technology Next two hours about you know, you can't execute get out of my face. All right on that note I'm gonna get out of your face. We should take a break. Thank you for being here. Yes I mean even though we're with each other 24-7. Yes. I mean not us. Yeah you and me. Yes I know don't worry hang out, but I'm gonna be back I'll be back before I'm born child Yeah, I'll come back Baby, I'd a father for my baby I think we know who's Marcia Bieber day tomorrow. I'm a Bieber I'm gonna be dead tomorrow. I don't know where I'm talking. Anyhow, we're going to take a break talking to Jacob Apparently we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Justin Bieber If we have it under embargo do we need we really really need is like to try to get a hands-on or some live pictures of Whatever they're announcing. What are they announcing? So we're bringing an absolute ton of people to see us It's our entire team from around the world got people coming in from the Netherlands the UK the West Coast New York Japan We should request interviews with people that we think would be significant or interesting to get our hands on because we'll have a setup at the trailer Please say a command We have the best technology powering our site things like story stream and the video technology that we're using and our product database We're really good at taking a lot of information making it presentable making it readable and still showing you what's important What really is gonna make the coverage great is that we have a staff a big staff of really smart really talented very sharp writers That are putting these stories together that are building narratives out of these stories and they can tell the stories better than anyone else in the industry And we're back so actually I would love to have a baby. I said that the thing we just saw is you know Ford is sponsoring us and they We got an opportunity thanks to their sponsorship to shoot some behind-the-scenes stuff. Yeah, which is really cool And we're actually are planning meeting by the way. Yeah, we were planning see as some of those shots where I was actually You know figuring out what we're doing here, but um Hey, I was I think it's very cool. Yeah, it looks like a movie trailer. No, it looks like we're doing say really serious. Yeah That's not all we're doing is talking about joy to having a baby. It's a Developing world. Anyhow Chris Ziegler is here are one of our senior editors senior mobile editor very happy Why not okay, why you don't clap yourself I'm clapping His copy for Chris Ziegler His copy for Chris Ziegler a lot of mobile news where are we starting with this? What do we have you guys had a meeting so we had it so we had okay, that's good So I thought can I just say one thing today was like for your meetings day We took a lot of meetings there were many metal with a lot of there were intimate Gatherings. Yeah, there were what I would describe I would describe this page like a long car ride to a ritual Dosing a high dosing of acid mushrooms ecstasy There's a guy driving a vacuum Lazing up and down the aisle So we had a meeting with Sanjay Jha the CEO of motor oil mobility yeah, I mean I'm not sure what he said. He said he was the CEO of motor oil mobility. Yeah, and and there are Dan Maloney and Dan Maloney Yes, who runs their home home connected home right and and there were a handful of other journalists there and Me and Sanjay got into it But but no he said some really I'll say this he said some really interesting things Straight up on the record very can't what's happening behind me. There's a Zamboni If I don't get to drive that thing Freak out Alright guys, I'm drunk. You got 30 seconds before he comes back. Yeah, right There were some really big things that he said I think yeah, he said so I pressed him on the skinning stuff and That really set him off We published a quote. Yeah, it was the quote. I mean so I said You could do smart actions as an app Why is it necessary to skin these devices and he went and him by the way, I think was was very clear about I don't think he was upset about the question He here's a quote Verizon and AT&T don't want seven stock ice cream sandwich devices on their shelves We have to make money and then he said there's no way to make profit on device that isn't differentiated Yeah, the vast majority of changes we make to the OS are to meet the requirements that the carriers have so so So the gist of what he was saying actually was not that we don't want to release, you know We it's not that we don't want to release a stock phone A lot of it was the carriers have they need things put on the phone They need to do their testing and that's all like part of that's nothing. That's all part of it Well, like superfluous animation, that's Serious passing the buck. No, no, but but I think they're saying Verizon saying don't bring us a stock Android phone because we don't want it I think they're saying Verizon saying you better come with something original or we can't market it in our crazy violent app Right, right and for a company like Motorola the thought of Verizon saying no We're not going to take that device is a pretty scary. That's that that would be death to them, right? I mean Motorola was dead three or two years ago. Yeah, okay, and they've been saved by Android and Verizon Well, and they're in no position. Wait, wait wait that they've been saved They've been revitalized, but they have not actually been saved. They are still struggling. Well, they've been Purchased but they're going their way Just if that if not a purchase was there's we know a con and a great business deal the wording Think about that. Just let that stew. Bye everybody for a second I let's let's let's be very clear Google tried To do the unlocked phone thing with the Nexus one and even Google failed So I don't think that Google buying Motorola wasn't really trying they were just riffing right? But why would that they were definitely they were definitely just like let's try this out So it happens first of all, first of all Google's public Public statement on this whole situation is that they're gonna be hands-off with Motorola and for all I know that's true I still don't know that that's necessarily untrue. I Think it's untrue. I Got there's my gut speaking. I'm gonna get my Nexus devices. I think that I don't know about that But I think that they're gonna I think why do they want to own Motorola pens pens? Yeah, so they bought Motorola to own patents and they're gonna let them keep making the same phones. Don't change to Google What's that again? What is this? Yeah, okay I just love the idea of like Sanjay Chaluk and Larry Page just making it rain. It's like very strange. Actually Larry Page has a Canon he uses to make it rain By the time the money comes out it's just in space and kind of burns up coming re-entry the atmosphere It's quite a powerful making it rain I wish I could tweet that right now, but I'm podcasting so I can stop you. It is the verge cast. I wouldn't get too precious Yeah Galaxy Nexus does a lot better than those other fault the other stock phones Do you think that might change some people's minds? I don't think so because Verizon now Verizon still looks at it as a very Each product each device is a very siloed Device, I think that they look at each each phone in a vacuum and I really don't think to be honest I see Sanjay's point. I think that that is the message that carriers are delivering to him I don't think that he was if you see each phone in a vacuum. Why do you need to differentiate? Because because touche because Why don't you come back when you have some real information Say these these empty empty You promise to get pregnant by the way, yeah, it's a great effect. Go ahead Write my words I will be pregnant by the time I leave Las Vegas Yes, will you let your children use it all PCs with a Motorola with a Motorola ice cream That's way out of my wheelhouse. I'm not equipped to answer that. Yeah. Go ahead. What were you saying? I have no idea Josh Very differentiation Give me back a vacuum Okay, right right so so I I think that the galaxy Nexus and the Nexus line in general is a very specific case For Verizon and for Apple and I think that's a very specific case For Verizon and for other carriers and it's almost like the iPhone and that There's a lot of pressure on the part of the four nationals to carry Google's flagship product and there's a lot of reluctance I don't think that Verizon I mean look at the marketing campaign that Verizon put forth for the galaxy Nexus versus the droid razor for example They Verizon put out like three like feature-length movies for the droid razor feature exploding motorcycles and well Dudes and you know, and this is the whole thing is that a stock phone has never gotten a fair shake So how can they be so sure? Well, keep it in a fail here's the other part of that equation is that a stock device cuts completely cuts a Verizon out of the the ARPU picture the revenue picture so You know beyond the plan they're screwed and and they want to minimize that as much as they can They're so they're so screwed because they're only getting a hundred fifty dollars. I mean Yeah, how does that cut them out of the picture? I'm sorry. What how does the stock phone come out of the picture because they're not getting the phone isn't filled with crap No, no, but why can't you know my argument is not you can fill the phone with crap Put the crap on there. Those are the apps. Yeah, they're apps APKs. They don't affect exactly Operation like on Windows, right? So put the crapware on there and let me have the option to delete it or use it and I would say most people probably End up using it but don't reskin the phone change the way it operates change the mail client and do all this I mean, I know they have I know there's this exchange issue, but let's say they include an exchange client Don't change the basic operation of the phone and that was my argument today when we were talking was Smart actions is great But isn't a some kind of crazy system level thing that cannot be done as an APK They have it as an APK in the market. You can download it for you know, the appropriate Motorola devices so the issue is and and what they what would Sanjay basically said was we there are pressures from carriers to differentiate and We're not driving, you know what? I think is at the end of the day I mean we've had this conversation a hundred times at the end of the day that means there is a huge gulf between what consumers want and what the market is actually Dictating for these devices. Well, there's a lot of what the That's overreaching consumers don't know what they want to be very fair. That's exactly right and Steve Jobs said this and And and and so did so did Henry Ford well, I mean essentially there's yeah He's quoting and by the way, I know this because we talked to for tonight But the quote is something like if I ask customers what they want. They'd say a faster horse. Yeah, that's right That's that's not what I mean not at that level like yeah The consumer is gonna mail you a picture of what they really want. I'm saying these skins the over jog touch jog touch I'm saying there's not a if the carriers are saying we want this we don't want that That's not they're they're placing a barrier between carriers are saying make it different. I don't think they're being so specific No, I think they're being really specific. I don't think so. I think they're saying make it different I think they're being very specific. Yeah, I mean I've heard About about LG and HTC and yeah, they order the phones basically, right? They they build like I got a fast-food menu that the nationals absolutely do the regionals don't they they pick another regional Yeah, just yeah exactly, but the Verizon AT&T T-Mobile spreader ordering Wait, are they are they ordering having a very unhealthy diet or billing look you got to get all this crap on there Or did they say like feature changes? No, I know but like is there a usability expert at the carrier level that like? Writers That's what I'm saying Like and I think that's kind of what you were saying like there there are market forces that are dictating You know for them to make a profit or a bigger profit They need to put crap on their phones But but there's nobody at at the carrier who is responsible for this ultimate product because they made themselves responsible Who is actually completely focused on delivering a well-functioning? perfectly usable you mean like like a really smart like designer who knows Like a Johnny Ive who works at the carrier. Yeah It doesn't make sense, but if they put this they put themselves on this I know why you know they need to know why they're on the pedestal because the pedestal makes some money like no That's what I mean. They're like they decided this is the model So at least they should go ahead and do good thing let's consider something else Which is that there's no incentive to do if design and and usability ruled supreme the world would be rid of comic sans You you you you think of how many you sign? Dream no wait how do you non-threateningly say wait? How do you how do you tell the world passive-aggressive? Okay, like somebody has somebody else Refrigerator door in a jokey way Matching comics, how can you tell what looks good if comic sans ceases to exist? So you're saying every carrier needs one really crappy phone yeah every carrier needs the fascinate with being on Know the continuum yeah the one with the title right now remember that huge innovation yeah, what happened? I thought it was gonna be it yeah Yeah, I for the little I see yes Touchscreen buttons yeah, they got that from the continuum. That's right. They ripped it off Google's Andy Rubin was like that. That's what we need yeah do that No multi-touch, but I want that And go on do you want to talk about you talk to Steven? Well, yeah, hold on wait, but I wanted to quickly type a sandwich odd the other things that he said was really interesting He said so they don't want to they don't want a bunch of unskinned phones They also said they're gonna make fewer phones in the coming year That's what it is exciting because what it means is that the industry is waking up to what we know to be true It's by editorial. Yes, which is on J. I was like good job Yeah, not not only the demand not there, but You are selling yourself short as a make a phone maker if you're like Every iterate you're like we could make the screen one inch bigger or that's actually big 0.1 inch bigger let's make a new phone on that one inch would be a huge But but like it's like we found a way to have a ripple back instead of a curvy back like you know what I mean It's like every innovation they keep issuing a new phone. I think you're starting to realize that that doesn't exactly work in the market At this point right and it won't I don't think it will work for a long time And I don't I mean phones aren't laptops Laptops are rocks are not motorcycles motorcycles are not cars still but but phones aren't they're not it's not the same thing We've been playing that same game. It's same with tablets. Sunday. Josh said you go into a store and there's 24 They're exactly the same Android tablet and nobody's buying them Chris. Can you say the gist of your editorial against people? I read it yeah I I would love to actually which the the the main overarching theme in that Editorial is that by releasing a new device every two to three months you're alienating your best customers You're you're saying to the to the people who are supporting your brand and spring your products F you You know what it's funny Motorola said that today right John J. I was like we want to put out fewer phones. Yeah What he's doing at this show is giving the finger to everybody who just bought a razor because they put out the razor Man exactly are you kidding me? Well, I think But I think this is part of their ebbing Droid 17, but I think this is part of their ebbing Situation. Yes sense that they have been just iterative and tiny changes and just so many times But you don't accident your way into the razor max. You're like, oh, that's the end. No, I think they did I think that's exactly what they did. I think they talked about it He did he said an engineer said hey, what if we made the back like this we could do and then he was like What's the battery and it was like 3300 milliamps and he freaked out or somebody freaked out? So that's awesome and it's for the power users, right? But I think that but I think that we're at the tail end of that for them at least with him saying we recognize the droid bionic the droid razor the droid for the razor max in the span of Three or four months or something is an untenable way to run their business their phone business Because the truth is there aren't enough people out there to support it What they really need is like a low-end device a high-end device about once really about once a year Maybe twice maximum. Well, no, I think I think you could legitimately a low-end device and then to high-end a couple form factors Yeah, like keyboard keyboard no keyboard, but we're talking about Substantial differences right not like this one's thin This one's slightly less than because that's not substantial and consumers aren't gonna buy into that and then and this this phone has ever Slanting corners, right? Anybody grill Sanjay on these horrible corners. No, what's wrong with the corners himself? Really? Yes. He said he said in retrospect I wish we had we had made the the the razor a little less edgy I think he bent him in the curve on the back where it comes up so extreme right on the camera And I think he actually was saying that he wishes it was more like the max You're right sense that you can it doesn't it feels like a continuous. Yes instead of this kind of weird break Yeah, but I don't have problem with the corner. I'm seriously I Saw a hammer. I would never buy a device with those corners Why a motor came out with the best phone in the world? I would not buy a device with the corners that they have on The zyborg on the razor like they're putting on all your yourself. Accidentally I'm tired of like weird oblique angles. Well, I made those angles are important Well that that is no it's the essence of a useless thing. Yes. That is the perfect example of meaningless differentiation Yes, where they're like, well, but they didn't change the edges to differentiate they change it because that their design language Yeah, it's purely aesthetic and not at all functional right? Well, lots of things are purely aesthetic Like the glass back on the iPhone 4. Yeah, but purely aesthetic and not at all functional unless you consider Well, no, there's no functionality to what I think I think what Paul's getting at is that there's also an aspect It's a simple superfluous aesthetic. It's not a simple design design You can't argue that that superfluous design that that that a design element is superfluous Just because you don't think it needs to be the ultimate example. It's superfluous Cadillac yeah, but superfluous But it is what's making a tail fin sure Black well, the zyborg is not yeah, if you took those tail fins off it would be it would look like a different totally Different car yeah, 50 years from now. You're gonna have kids fixing up You By the way, I'm not saying that I like the edges but I will say that design is designed So you don't like it nobody's it's either good or bad I mean This is an awesome segue into Nokia because I love the Lumia 900 We should talk about Nokia. So you interviewed you up today. Wait, such a just said what I did you love today? Wait So I just said one other thing. I want to talk He said from the keeps on you said Chrome on the web top Chrome is coming to web top That's hot and it like casually it was so weird. We were like we said I've asked my questions So we said I was just bitchy about the software and I said, you know, the software is not good You know are you to put Chrome on them? He's like that's coming We'll continue to offer a Firefox option or something like that and more generally he said that I see us enables a number of things that's going to make the web top experience more fluid. Yeah, exactly So I don't but I don't understand the Firefox offering. Yeah, why don't you continue to not offer that? No, but so segue into Nokia Okay Say yeah, I did interview with well, we saw the n900 No, the Lumia 900 and 900 is the me go device. Yes Oh, that's right. Well, it's their fault. They made it. I just you know, I got a kiss that goodbye You really gotta say for well, it's Tyson now Tyson Tyson no, that's actually Harmaton. Well, no, no the n9 we can't so so so Nokia introduced the Lumia 900 and We had an interview with Stephen elop today and And I mean what he was he was I think I think he's legitimately psyched about these devices but what's interesting is that what I think what I thought was interesting was that He we also interviewed Aaron Woodman today. Did that go up? I don't know. We've seen so many Yeah, it didn't go up. No, I don't believe so. Well, we interviewed air weather from from Microsoft Yeah, by the time these people yeah. Yeah by the time you guys do this, but but he said That what I thought was most interesting is that some of the innovations in me go They were looking at they would consider as you know, something they wanted to bring to Windows phone. Yeah, and I feel like that's I know he may have said stuff along those lines before But it was he was very candid about the fact that they he thought there was a lot of Innovation there and they weren't putting that necessarily to bed and they would be looking at it But the other thing the things he had trouble answering were why is this the real Windows phone? As opposed to HCC or Samsung his answer was because it Nokia is fully focused on it but that doesn't kind of skirts the issue which is he's basically trying to to to Say that Samsung and HCC and LG are making They're not the real thing The genuine article he's saying because Nokia is the only company entirely focused entirely focused on it Yeah, except for back when they were making that me go phone, right and Simultaneously with that and they're still selling like simian devices It's completely their laser focus but He seems legitimately excited. And the only thing I walked away from was that You know, they really think they've got this is their he was real everybody's reluctant to call it their halo device but this is clearly the Windows phone halo device, right, but I Wanted to I wanted to have a longer conversation. I think he's got a lot more to say But I'll say for Nokia. It's a big deal to have a guy in charge who seems legitimately invested in what they're making Yeah, so I don't think they've had that for a long time They have really no but they were legitimately invested in things that that were obviously not going the way they in their minds They thought they were supposed to be going. I think it's a dangerous. There's a dangerous difference between Liking something and trying to get it to go in the right direction and liking something Trying to get it going the right direction. It's not going in the right direction and not seeing that So we don't know you love has it we haven't we've yet to test him Yeah to see if he's seen it or not You know, hopefully it goes the right direction because you competition like you like kind of burrowed down a little bit I mean we there was a period of growing down. No, I mean we had a brief interview this pump We fist pumped a few times No but the thing is that he he's he's fairly down-to-earth when he talked to him and I thought that his Attitude about there were some PR stuff, you know some scripted stuff Yeah But I think that generally he was fairly loose and talkative about the device and their strategy and they seem really happy to be back Doing a North American device, you know, and they recognize the importance of North America. Are they bringing something to bubble world Congress? That what they haven't said well he intimated that this you know, he keeps saying this is just one of many things Microsoft is gonna have big announcements, right? They haven't said I guess my guess is that they were gonna do a new Yeah version. Yeah, the thing is that that the Lumia 900 not the Like it's just coming out and then mobile world Congress is gonna happen like like these specs are getting really stale Yeah, especially the screen. No the resolution and the display. I mean the Nokia display looks what is it called? Pure black clear black looks clear black not what was our thing sure black. It looks really really good I have to say I'm really drinking the Microsoft Kool-aid of specs not mattering with with these phones Because every time I've used a Windows phone going all the way back to the original launch last November with the exception of this round I best for the Everything feels so fluid it the the software is so well matched to the hardware that I think that makes a big difference That's one that's one thing that has really hurt Android from the beginning is the fact that the software is so decoupled from the hardware that Even extremely high spec phones are quite often stuttery, right? We've seen it on 1.5 gigahertz dual core phones Yeah, that's I mean that's in the basic UI Windows phone But when you're launching apps and the you know, the game performance is pretty low right now really though I mean like there's some really good Xbox live games on on Windows. Yeah, there's some okay Xbox live games I mean there were some new ones announced this week. I want to check out They should be solving for they should be solving for a real-time multiplayer and that's ridiculous. They're they own Xbox live It's the most popular Multiplayer gaming service in the world. There's a ton of those apps on and and there's no reason why they can't do Phone versions of apps that you can play against people who are on a console So you know so many so much opportunity you think we'll see it the next generation chassis Well, I mean where are they gonna wear Skype integration? Yeah, you know, I don't know But but what I would say they need to do next generation chassis next generation software, which includes Skype integration you know better multitasking notifications, which I think is still rough on the platform and and Better heart. Well, I said better chat a screen. Yeah the screen but but also there's something else I've completely blanked on it, but I think they need to they need to talk to John touch it's not that they're not at a competitive level But they're not at the I don't think they're at lust level that's the problem when I when I was like, oh the galaxy X has a 720p display that to me was a Bump, yeah, I know there's this argument about this and that, you know the technology it looks better than Every other 800 by 480 screen. I've used I'll tell you what I spoke with Chris Weber today and love that interview up soon, too he is the president of Nokia's North American operations and he made a very interesting point to me, which is that you have that cyan Lumia 900 in this in the store, right? You have so many people that are walking in the store They don't know what they want They're gonna they're gonna you know Just look at the phones and pick what what looks good or they're gonna buy what the sales rep tells them to buy So they see that cyan Lumia 900 looks freaking awesome And even if you don't buy it, even if you end up going up to the counter and saying yeah That's a little dangerous for me. I'm gonna get the black It's that that blue phone that bright blue phone on the shelf that talked you into the Lumia And I think that's it. That's a an interesting play Well, I think that it's the the question is how many people are really psyched about a bright blue Lumia And I think that numbers attracts your eyes. So I think well, yeah, you play a pretty weak argument I think Android might have done that a little bit with like the large screen It's not so much that because I don't like using that's a good a large screen But but man in a store you're gonna notice that it's true. It's true You're looking at the different phones and all of a sudden you see a 4.3 inch next to the 3.5 and it's a notable difference I Mean I we it's not a notable difference anymore. It's not a notable difference anymore. I cry except for the note Okay, it's just I mean I we keep talking about Android like Android as a whole is successful with these strategies It's Samsung Samsung is the company that I think is motor Motorola blazing Motorola blaze the past What other metrics you measure performance on the company He is struggling right the only the company that's struggling struggling now, they're doing okay No latest quarter is little there. Yeah, but we've had a no no, but but the entire economy is taking except for Samsung Which is blown up That's a quarter ever. Yeah, I mean there's one company that's really succeeding with Android. It's Samsung Yeah, the other companies they had an accelerated growth curve because it was a new platform people were switching to smartphones Yeah, Motorola was on Verizon. You can you could start saying doom and gloom for Android I'm not saying do you include for you? No, not as the platform saying do be good for Motorola and I'm saying I'm saying there's one company that is like these strategies have worked for one company. It's not for Android No, I think that we don't even for all it's too early to call this it's been like two years Sure, I mean what technologies can you call it to? That's part of this that's part of the Technology That's the majority of smartphones sold in the world. Can you call it two years? Now I'm not saying that I mean I I just want us to be more New what Android is doing or how Android? No, but if you look at the aggregate, you don't look at you know you don't look at this quarter as the as the When you look the curve rates you see didn't just go like this. It's been going with you Well, okay fine and same for Motorola's like that Then we'll know that that that piece of it has failed but you have to look at a longer sure somebody playing Party rock anthem right now. I hear it No, you're just hearing no, I'm saying I'm hearing it. Somebody's out here playing it I'm just saying that that that you need to watch a longer curve that they're not one or two years So you've worn one or one or two quarters. It's But I still think you're doing don't get me wrong. They're doing wait you see yeah That their profits have been down. Yeah, they've been trying were they up last quarter? No, the most recent corner a quarter. They were down year over year by a lot by a lot like I Was just saying it's more in a recession. Sure. They see this from you may be right. I don't know who I'm bullish on LG the worst Actually, can I can I talk about two pieces? I know we're yeah, we have to wrap up I want to talk about two last piece of news one of which I think is totally self But a huge huge piece of news out of the CS But actually real quick on LG. I think it's really interesting that their Android phone skin is a totally unmitigated disaster It's like the ugliest thing I've ever seen but their Google TV skin is like, oh, that's kind of refined. It's kind of elegant It's like where where have these guys been? Why don't you just have to make the phone? But they're asking for a miracle. I think their remote is really wonky and bad. I'm not getting a remote discussion Anyway, I talked to Rishi Chandras ahead of Google TV today and I was like what's with these remotes? He's like, I don't know. We have to figure it out. And he was like with the big pieces Is it unmitigated disaster? Let's be honest. No, it's the I think it's one of the stories of the show I mean, they're all having there all that someone's doing another Google TV. They're all pushing it It was an abject failure. It was an abject and everybody admits it totally but this is Magnanimous about the fact that you blew it. Yeah, or whatever the emotion I'm the reaction but but whatever being like, yeah, you know, we blew it doesn't mean that somehow you've like captured Some special moment of success or forthcoming Worth coming about you Not magnanimous. That's just like being really generous. Yeah, right forthcoming about the fact like yeah, you know what we screwed it up That's like saying like yeah, you know, I killed that guy in a hit-and-run. I I wasn't really paying attention I'm getting back behind the wheel. Yeah, but you know the guy's dead Killed him and you could never take that back. Yeah, that's what Google TV is but it's no different from the Android phone, right? I mean that the g1 was not a runaway success. It was it was also wasn't a huge failure. It's true, right? There's a difference between not as success and a failure and and what we saw with the g1 was that the the uptake was slow But people weren't like this thing blows get it out of my face. I hate it. Yeah, true Well, there are only two things about the first Google TV that were really terrible three, right? Three out for you know, it was three. It was three very specific ones one They didn't have apps. So everything came through Chrome and all the networks blocked Chrome Second their performance was bad in general because they were on Intel processors underpowered and third They're utterly reliant on flash and what about the iAir blaster? Well that you know, that's all bad. That's like it was it was just bad and like all sudden you're like, oh Blaster you'd love I mean you probably spent four or five hours Collectively talking about the iAir blaster That's a problem right that's like I agree that that was a problem It wasn't like a fatal flaw problem. That was this is clunky problem. This is revisionist history That's also an issue with with the review specifically right now Google TV as a platform No, it's a problem with Google TV as a platform I'm saying like if you I I thought I think I our blasters are stupid. I think that's very clear I mean those three problems are fatal problems for everybody flash flash slow performance. No contact That makes that makes your platform dead. That was they they have tried to address this problem I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah, we all know that until until And by the way, I saw Walt Mossberg earlier tonight and we were talking about Smart TVs. Mm-hmm, and he was saying Basically the same thing that we were saying Walt wasn't talking about remotes. He was talking about search and discovery He was talking about the the iAir blaster. He was talking about our no He was saying he was saying, you know, the problem is the content You can't get the content from the people who make it to the user Because there's a bunch of bottlenecks in between it. Yeah, and that is an unchanged Google TV or no Get out of my face One more piece you guys actually think this is please ultraviolet and I think this is a great movie I think really underrated, you know ultraviolet Effects is actually a bottleneck tweak. It's a bottleneck tweak, but I'm telling you describe it Ultraviolet is it's a centralized DRM system Hollywood like basically decided they're all gonna use the same DRM They want all the retailers to use the same year. So like Bob's Bob's digital video store Well, not Bob's you buy from Walmart and you know I usually just I walk into a physical store and then no no put a flash drive in something and walk out with it Well, maybe actually you could do that now But I don't know what you would a standard DRM for video but a standard DRM for all video providers, right? And said of Amazon and Apple but today they announced Amazon is supporting the standard So you buy a movie from Amazon you can play it back on any device that supports ultraviolet You buy a movie from Walmart. You can play it back on any device that supports ultraviolet It's notable and they're doing this thing where Samsung their new blu-ray players you put in a DVD It says we're authenticating the DVD We're giving you a digital copy of ultraviolet DRM if you want to up res it to HD you pay a quote a nominal fee Nobody knows about five five. It'll be some No, I get if I get a if I get a player that has ultraviolet technology Yeah, I can put in one of my old DVDs. Yep, and it'll say you own this copy You want the blu-ray so you want the HD version? I'll be another five dollars. What if what if I what if I buy that? That is like that is right and but I'm saying their problems thus far has been The major players are an Apple and Amazon and if they don't get Apple and Amazon nobody cares, right? Because you're not gonna run out. They got Amazon they got Amazon and once you get Amazon that means every other so goes Apple I think I but every other retailer is gonna run on board Is this primarily gonna be movies or is there a chance shows ever? It's it's ultraviolet means Warner Brothers I mean you think that's all that solves one problem, which is like could this when the movies are out I can get them in a digital format. Could this be a Netflix a competitor in a way? They don't have rental yet And they and actually I talked to somebody who works who works on the what happens if I borrow my friends DVD I think they're just letting it go everybody has They're working on my camera I can borrow a bunch of dollar DVDs and then pay like 15 bucks and get HD versus those movies I don't know how this is gonna work. What? Yeah DVDs it must be one activation per DVD, right? You subscribe to Netflix. Yeah, that's a stuff ready doing some I'd be like I own this they're like, yeah $5 get the HD version The HD version is gonna be in the center of the DVD There's like a pop code and also also Netflix DVDs are like wholesale rental DVDs are not retail DVDs Please stop countering my awesome plan with logic. I understand Okay, we I know you wanted in on that but but we got razor Fiona. Oh the gaming thing Okay, this guy just say why I see it. I want to talk about it. Can I I'm saying I was in a meeting Yeah, you see this what is it it's a tablet but it's a joysticks on the side It's a core i7 really bizarre gaming PC that is in a tablet form factor and with joysticks on the side It's a Wii U but it's a PC allegedly designed by the oqo guys as I understand it. Really? Yeah Wow God knows that wasn't the total six. Are you getting one? Yeah Yeah, how much no, I don't know. Well, the problem is razor comes out with these insane member last Never release them and it turns out this isn't the final design razor may just be messing with us That's my theory messing us with us in a really expensive high-end. Yeah, you were there a billionaire troll. There's some guy They didn't put a Photoshop up on a wall of their booth. They like built this graphics card on running a plate Sean played Warhammer on this thing It's got a 10 inch like 1080 by 800 screen It this is it's really crazy and and you know, it's fun because like you can kind of do the Wii U thing Hey Yeah, okay, because there's been two stories on the CS that have been completely over and then we have to wrap I know But so you can tell thing until did a demo what this morning last night of ultrabooks gaming direct x11 They faked the demo. They played a movie instead of him playing the game You like drove the car with no hands. He's like it's running backstage. It's not working screw it. Mm-hmm I would call it the Mac press jumped all over Intel for faking the demo Mm-hmm, right for faking that they couldn't do what they said they were gonna do and then later on they're like no We just did it because everybody lies during demos and they showed on and should be who runs on intact They showed him the game actually worked right definitely work. So it's like shocking news demos at CS CS get faked all the time There's of course because you don't want to glitch out while you're crazy stuff happens like Microsoft at the Microsoft Keynote they try to show voice control, right and it did didn't get it Right and that that isn't indicative of every time you do it But when you're on stage, there's a bunch of radios and we're not going on Great, that's one like crazy fake outrage story that's happening. Yes. The other one is this ridiculous Samsung swipe It's story which has been driving me crazy But it just didn't it's like So there's a completely Unsourced like random investors blog post saying I got an update to my Samsung Smart TV with his app called swipe it It's their competitor airplay. It's called swipe it. Haha. Samsung's also at the bottom that he says Apple Yeah, here's my prediction Apple's gonna buy Samsung Totally everybody the Mac press like runs. I mean literally people people were sourcing this random dude Yeah Straight up sourcing as if he was as if he was the most the most senior reporter at the Wall Street Journal Yeah, you know like like look at what's happening and Apple's gonna buy Samsung like, you know in bold lettering at the top of a page It's a completely and so but I saw your own Company like we called them we talked to them they're like, you know We built this platform to run apps on Samsung loves been on stuff like a year Yeah, they want a competition from a TV app. It's in Samsung's they're like we love it. They're promoting I'm by the way, we're not defending it. The point is it's it does it have things that are similar to airplay? Yeah, every single company here. It's been around for a year. It's not new. It's been on Samsung devices really weird It's an issue devices for their airplay competitor. There's an issue. Sorry doesn't issue updates on their devices Like, you know, it's the Tuesday night at 930. We're gonna issue our airplay competitor as an update to your smart TV Yeah, right before our announcement. Yeah, right before CS. No, they come out and say they say you like airplay You're gonna love swipe it, but it didn't happen because this story is This amazing I've been having all week. I mean I published this story of a sir Actually actually doing a ripoff with with a sir. Yeah Yeah And you know a sir cloud is its own thing and it's a service and it has whatever feature that it has but they use a slide that was clearly a Direct copy of what I was a blade and so for us it was like oh, this is a funny thing Like they use the same slide we put it up. It's been one of our biggest stories of CS because because there's this sort of this circling vultures of people who see CES as a vacuum of Apple News and they're just looking for reasons to hate on what's happening That's one place where it's a legitimate ripoff that it that is that is but but some of these other service But I'll say we try to be critical but but I think there's there's a lot of people out there that Don't like see us because Apple's not here And then they hate the others of that isn't Apple right begin because it's not Apple and because they're not getting their hit of Apple News they're ready to just hate on it so now but but but and we talked about this a little bit last night and I think you know we can wrap up on this point but There there's like this real backlash of like all the stuff is derivative and iterative and you know It's no you're not, you know changing the game and blah blah blah and it's like things like ultraviolet and The the push of ultrabooks and these kind of hybridized ultrabook tablet things and what Microsoft is talking about which is Which I which was what clearly they're talking about is tablets that are you're doing these tablet apps on and then you dock somewhere It becomes a Windows PC, you know people and I'm not a Windows fan Everybody knows that but I am interested in Windows 8 I think it's a really I think it's a really potentially awesome operating system if they do it the right way If they get away from what Windows 7 feels like but but in the windows before but but I think it's I think it's a really unfair You know technology is iterative. I think I think it's a difference between being a Technology enthusiast and being an Apple. This right and you can be a technology enthusiast and have mostly Apple products because you Like them because that they're delivering the best technology Yeah, or you can just blindly love Apple and hate anything. That's not I think I think is that like an integrated beautiful Coherent cohesive experience is great. And I love that You know, it's actually really funny is that the most iterative company the company is the most successful being iterative is Apple Well, right, but without question, but they're marketing is that's the difference But their marketing is very different and frankly their products are very very different in terms of execution But but the idea that like the only way the technology advances is through these Breakthrough revolutionary moments of utter beauty from Apple is a false Yeah, it's a false idea and we know it's a false idea. We've seen it's a false idea where it's sitting in the middle I mean, I'm not sure I'm not trying to cheerlead for any company here, but we're sitting at the Sony, you know in the Sony area Well the Vita's the Vita's back here. No, but like something like the Vita is great We'll push mobile gaming forward in an iterative way not in a we've never seen this before way but this will make Apple work harder to make their next phone better at gaming Haters gonna hate sort of yeah it is that their whole commercial for this should just be that haters gonna hate animation of the dude walking That's it, then he pulls out a Vita And that's the end of the commercial. That's a freebie. So do you know? All right, we gotta wrap up That is our podcast for tonight. That's our cast for tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night. Yes from here from here from here and Talking about what we saw at CES and if you want to get in touch with us any number of other things any number of other things like pregnancy and drinking but if you want to get attention you can email us a podcast at The verge dot com. Thank you. I'm just so out of it You Leave a comment on the post when it goes up or you can find us on Twitter. I'm Joshua Topolski Neal is reckless Paul's future Paul Chris Ziegler is Z power And of course the site is at Joanna and Joanna centers at Joanna Stern and the site is at verge And we're ready for any Twitter. We're all over Twitter. The tweets are just out of load of Twitter comm your problem It's just all eyes. Hey, that's it. And we'll be back tomorrow night. So thanks for joining us. Rock and roll indeed. Rock and roll