 Video games. What do they do? That was a reference to the 1986 Val Kilmer hit comedy Real Genius and this is the Vergecast. What? I just did it man. It just came to my mind and I just went for it. Hi, I'm Neil Epitel. This is the Vergecast, a show where we're just going to talk about video games, let's be honest. Who are you? I actually believe that was a legitimate question for a second. Who are you? I'm your employee. I'm Ross. You're very confused. Miller. If you didn't know. I'm Chris Grant. I'm not your employee. No. No. You're more my buddy. Just a pal. I'm looking at the Vergecast episode of the Vergecast because the PS4 came out this week. Is coming out tomorrow. Oh, it's coming out tomorrow. The review. Polygon. Chris Grant is the editor in chief of Polygon, which is a website. It's affiliated with our website in some way. It's like one of those web rings from the 90's. Yeah, yeah. Everything circles through. At the end of it, it's like a boner pill shows up at your house. That's just how the cycle works. I know polygon is our sister publication a delightful Compendium of things in the internet about video games. Yeah, and they you publish your review So in my mind, it's already done PlayStation 4 is done over with right because polygons review was one of those beautiful things that were published definitive authoritative move I believe John Hermann today on tour said I've read a lot of ps4 reviews my end result This review is way more technologically advanced than the ps4 itself. Oh, that's it. That's a burn I'm shaders to and this is how many GPUs up in this review. We have to use 17 GPUs. Yeah Mechanics. Yeah, I don't know anything about video games by the way. These are just words that picked up over time You have played with the PlayStation 4 this I have played with the ps4 Mm-hmm, and actually, you know, I just did a big feature on the Xbox and so I got some quality time And we should definitely talk about that playing with the Xbox as well, which I believe makes me special very special. Hmm Yeah, I thought so So yeah, let's talk about it. So that's the big news of the week. Mm-hmm I if you know if this is your first verge cast just get ready because we're just getting right into it I don't know what you'd be getting ready for because presumably you've downloaded this file you're listening to it or you're Like you're watching it right now streaming. Yeah, what if you're watching it right now? I'm so sorry They're pressing stop leaving sure they're learning how to fast forward through time itself. Yeah, so let's let's talk about ps4 Came out. It's the next PlayStation. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's it's interesting to me No, that's really weird right that's it's it's actually interesting that that's how Sony has chosen to like design develop an engineer of this product Yes On this show versus the polygon cast which we don't actually do but yeah Let's say theoretically did is that we would be talking about games every single week and then every eight years We would talk about this right you guys This is you can see this. That's a piece of plastic. This is a phone. I can't believe it Screens and now it's just the cover and that actually works as a phone No, like this isn't even the Moto X like cuz these things come out every three months. Oh, we did it again There's a new one and underneath that there's even more iPads like In gaming stop with the iPad. They can't stop. They're like rabbits in gaming It's like hey, it's been I don't know. It's been about seven years Carter's not president anymore Let's just go ahead and make a new PlayStation. Yeah. Yes Um, and it means that you have to wait it means that these things have to have really long-term ambitions And that's like what's wait no, I actually this is a really interesting yeah I just it's gonna sound dumb but I've been hearing it endlessly It's been repeated more this console generation any other as far as I can tell you know why this thing's like a decade These things didn't exist the last time. Yeah, right. So they're scared. They're like, what's the next thing? That's gonna disrupt us I think because the way that gaming has worked historically is a stable software platform and a Consumer investment that will last a long time in order to get the largest possible audience These things are cheap because your phone carrier subsidizes them iPads Challenge some of that right right now. That's 500 bucks and you're buying a new one every two years what iPads do and what I'm very curious I don't have an answer we can pontificate here. That's our jobs. Yeah, actually in my contract. Um About why this is and I hope that this happens going forward video games have been on a cycle a 30 year cycle of Changing and rewriting their architecture every generation, right? But you see a lot each bit before years to four or five years used to be a lot shorter This was a long generation. So let's just rewrite our architecture again. All your old games won't work. Yeah, there's some new games. I Can still play the first piece of software I bought for my iPhone on my new iPhone. Yeah That is what was it crazy. It was a game called I've had one there, but it was Tres it was a Tetris clone. They pulled it off the store I have it on my iTunes library and I can install it I have a bunch of store games there because I can't get a store anymore. Nice Tres No, I have a bunch of these that made it that cuz that first few months the store they weren't policing very well, man Yeah, I got a Tetris clone EA and that releasing a Tetris release its Tetris version. I like trust better It's a really simple. Yeah, we have like in-game like purchases and all that stuff. It's really annoying Yeah, but here's the thing like so this is getting the tech nerd part the ps4 reset new architecture It's more like a PC now like yeah, theoretically, it's it's new old architecture Exactly Yeah Theoretically if they upgrade the hardware backwards compatibility will not be an issue going forward assuming they just they don't do some crazy game like A cell processor or some other proprietary shit. I think I think Sony learned the cell processor lesson. That's over I hope so the way I've been thinking about this new console also, so Let's finish the the the exercise of why These things last so long and with the logic of that is before we get into the actual logic of designing the ps4 so They had to last a long time. They were individual unique architectures. They kept changing them over and over again They just made a PC now So for the first time ever and certainly the Xbox one is closer to this than any other one the in that it has windows On it. Yeah The ps4 is still proprietary, but It's an x86 powered system. It runs an AMD GPU and AMD CPU. It runs GDDR Lot, there's a guy's just like yes. Yes. Finally someone loves us guys. You can just make sure to cut me that check so AMD managed to get like a Hat trick Are in the Wii U. Yeah, oh Because I don't think that we I refuse to believe you exist Processor or they build the way we call it GPU. Maybe not the processor anyway, so um We have x86 power boxes in the home now I think as a result the ps4 is smaller than the ps3 slim Yeah, like it's a powerful piece of hardware But it's well understood and like right manufacturing it and shrinking it and cooling it as much better understood than well, so I will Unless you're Microsoft Here's what I know I've now seen the ps4 I've seen the Xbox I was there. Yeah The ps4 is a remarkably beautiful. It's it's so funny Sony's a really great hardware company. They built an astonishingly good piece of hardware That controller is excellent the ps4 in the ps4 than you'd like and there's the power supply it has a power supply Yes There's all those tear down photos where like you open it up and it looks like a race car inside with like a plastic cover over the internals and like the the air guide for the fan fans really small and then you look at the Xbox tear down and It's like they just built a gaming PC It's like a huge fan. It has this monster power brick sitting outside of it and it's like It looks like a cable box. They should be able to fit something. The other thing is it's not actually as powerful as the ps4 So it's bigger. I think Microsoft went very conservative after a 1.5 billion dollar write-down on Xbox 360 failures And this time they were like, you know what put 19 fans in it Let's keep this mother cold We are not doing that again and Sony was like, let's build a race car. Yeah, and they did it It's it's a it is a I mean our review basically. I'm gonna recap it for you. This is editorially responsible perhaps but If you're a fanboy you have to stop listening starting right now and you can only start again in 15 seconds That's a federal law. Okay fanboy fanboy. Let's set this up. All right. We gotta hurry up. I got some sex left It's um, it's a really nice piece of hardware. They did everything right? They fixed most of the problems if not all the problems of the PlayStation 3 they made a great gaming system They told everybody we're making a gaming system not a media box and they didn't have any games for it. Oops. Yep. Yep Yeah, I mean that's how I feel about it. I mean I played a bunch of games School, it's got I mean if you're just interested in third-party games, they look better on the ps4 So go ahead spend 400 bucks and get Battlefield 4 on it. I just think for most people If you have a current console, which you probably do why bother? Upgrading if you upgrade when there's games, that's the case for every generation like go back to ps3 go back to 360 What? HD had HD a big update had Call of Duty 2 guys, like but that that was also on the Xbox and like Xbox Live itself was not as big a thing as a net I know I bought a 360 about a 360 because I graduated from school I bought myself a flat panel TV and I wanted an HD video game console and that was the one that's a look nice right, so I think like I Think I mean for me personally I pre-ordered both Some people were canceling their pre-orders like why bother? Well, yeah, I think there's gonna be games I want before this thing drops in price So I'll just get it at this price. I think for the Xbox that's like obviously Titanfall, right? That's the one I keep here. Sure, but I also have a gaming PC. I'll probably play that there for me for Xbox, it's It's weird because for Xbox it's like there's one game quantum break remedy I'll buy anything remedy makes a very me makes a spreadsheet app I'm first guy in line and to be clear. This is like remedy did Alan Wake Yes, right she'd add it slows down time yeah With a narrator that's so poetic. Yeah, it seems so added these cells together. What does it mean? Mmm, it's kind of so hard-boiled the best. I am mark Wahlberg plays him in the movie for some reason So so like there's certain games for Xbox one like I just know I'm gonna want it for Xbox one I'm legitimately at launch more curious about the It's funny because what ended up happening was the opposite of what I expected The Xbox one seems to be I don't know. Our reviews are gonna go up next week We haven't played the launch games yet or I'm finished them Our console review goes up next week. It seems like they might have maybe better launch games, which I didn't expect I thought that Sony was gonna have yeah, because this gaming system. Um PlayStation 4 is cheaper I thought that the Xbox one I thought the only thing I'd be interested in was gonna be the media stuff I don't have cable at home like switching cable channels. I don't care But I thought that was gonna be like the interesting part. It still is pretty interesting. But um It's actually like hey, maybe maybe Dead Rising 3 is pretty good. Yeah, I don't know like maybe like forts It looks really nice. What's and then we have forza and then we have um Xbox go to forza. Yeah, motorsport. Yeah, so they're really angry email because the idea the feature night There's a video of me doing the voice commands and I said go to forza And I got a really angry email being like the reason the Xbox didn't understand you is because it's pronounced forza which is just combining like anger and fanboy aggression with like lyrical musical Italian pronunciation It's a delightful combination. I love console war fanboys You animal biased moron. I have not seen the South Park yet. There's a South Park episode. There's a link of it on YouTube or a clip of it on YouTube South Park did an episode last night I guess about the console wars where one group of the friends gets a position for and the other group gets the Xbox one You have to get the same one. Oh my god. They have a cute. How'd you do it? They um, yeah And so like the one group has the PlayStation 4 and they're like no you have to get this because we can all play together And so then they split and then at the end Cartman and they're also wearing their South Park stick of truth outfits from the game, um, which is also delayed Yeah, also delayed. So Cartman says something like Like let these idiots in their subpar voice recognition do whatever they want So good anyway Really funny also like kind of sad because honestly I like the arguments that are making in this episode. I Think I can literally bring up by the last couple of times. Yeah, it is Identical and guys like if you're on the internet right now, I just want this. It's like a this is I'm gonna talk to this camera yeah, this is a The more you know if you guys can put that little audio stinger in there if you sound like that's pretty good if you sound like an episode of South Park Re-evaluate your life decisions like seriously Those guys unless you're making South Park You've made some really poor life decisions and you should probably reevaluate what you do, right? And if this is that important to you like Like read a book learn to read maybe I don't know something like well, yeah Well learn to form an argument that has logic in this world anyway, so there is that one legitimate issue though It's like what are my friends getting because I want to play with them online Thank you, thank you guys Can we just zoo crew this entirely so we just have that all I don't want to do that for years soundboard Can you imagine like just like finally a fair fight with me? I'm watching we need morning DJ equipment. Um, whoo, God So, uh, listen a weird warning deejays It's farts toilet flushing It's like a freighter ship farts coming in a dog it's Philly radio Market, um, so the PlayStation 4 so This thing so like I was saying place it I Think the best console that Sony's ever made I think that they went feature by feature and address the shortcomings and failings of the ps3 ps3 is too expensive Okay, we're gonna make it at 400. That's cheaper than the Xbox 360 debuted at like this was a statement that price The ps4 was hard to program for because we invented a cell architecture process. Yes. Three was yeah, okay, excuse me So ps4 x86 like they went step by step and and literally a ps4 had a big Piece we had a big controller problem at first. It was the boomerang and they were oops. No boomerang Yeah, so then they made the six axis which had no rumble and the reason he fitted Rumbles the last generation technology. That was their quote So they forward you take shit out they backtracked on that and then the release the dual shock I and the dual shock was fine. It had had rumble, but it was not a great controller it had some fundamental problems at least of which you couldn't charge it when the system was off, but um So shock for they just all of that and you get the impression just like with Vita that this was a company That was tired of getting kicked in the teeth and they literally spent their time Taking notes for seven years and saying we're not gonna make these mistakes again Right and they didn't like they they literally fix this stuff I think the only complaint I could make and it's a little different because it's not included in the box I'm paying for is the camera Which is that Sony's got a long history of making camera peripherals and not supporting them and like I'm afraid we're gonna see that again We'll find out but um, but more important question who cares? Well, okay who cares right like this is the thing like oops I'm watching Microsoft dance around with the Kinect and like I yelled at it I'm sure Chris you you guys had the meeting everybody else had a couple weeks ago where you got to talk to the Kinect Yeah, right most people walked away from that most journalists. I know most stories are read said it kind of doesn't work The AP Washington Post or a P Washington Post post ran an AP headline About the Kinect and it was titled. Can you repeat that please? Right like here's And like we'll talk about the review When it works, it's really cool. Yeah, and I think for 50% for the for the other person in your life. It works every time if you have If you have it hooked up to your TV and it's free When it works, it's cool You're hanging out in a small room and you say Xbox volume down. It works like that's nice Xbox mute but my problem with Kinect In the demo that we got and the connect that I have at home now is when I have to repeat myself If I'm in front of even myself, you know, I'm alone. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. Yes, it's not frustrating. It's embarrassing I'm alone Xbox mute Xbox Why is it embarrassing? It's just a bear. It's just like what am I doing? Where have I arrived in my life? You know Look, maybe yes or no on the pants situation But I'm just talking to a little bit of controllers as controllers are defined by like their accuracy and how much they work if I hit The W key on my keyboard it never hits E It always hits W every time and like that's what frustrates me about Kinect today The demo we got last week had some problems. It was in a giant open loft Yeah, who knows like maybe it'll be better in my living room. We used it upstairs in the game room for review and like But the air conditioner is during the day Super loud. Yeah, really loud in that room and it doesn't work I mean, I used to we have there's a video of me using it at Microsoft in a tiny little conference room And I everybody was repeating themselves. Yeah, and like it was like a little thing But the dream of it is still nice like I will pay but I'm saying that's great But with the ps4 it's like who cares like it doesn't come with camera use it It's fine But for Xbox it's more than gaming for like literally just to scream Xbox pause and have it work So I can get off my couch and not find the controller and just like watch Netflix. That's nice How do you get samples? How do you start watching that Netflix on Xbox Xbox being Sherlock or something more embarrassing like the Real Housewives? So this whole this whole situation from top to bottom for you. It's just like I'm just you repeating watch Sherlock over and over again It's something real housewives Atlanta Xbox watch Real Housewives You're screaming Jersey Xbox Xbox Bing Emanuel in space I Don't have Cinemax go. Oh, no, this is horrible It's a big Cinemax guy That that's that brings me back to my childhood. Yeah, go Cinemax go is a great They do some good stuff. Um, so the thing about ps4 Dualshock video before it's got this big light on the back of the controller It's a vestigial leftover from when they yeah, should be a camera Yeah, no no from when they had a camera in the box like they built into every controller It always glows you can't turn it off. The way they talk about it now is oh you can look at it and see what? player you are yeah, you're blue and it's like no, I That doesn't make me we're low on health it turned red because you took oh my god So it has this big light on the back of it. So that is only a leftover. I'm an embarrassment That's only a leftover from when they included the camera and like so you can tell the camera used to be a bigger part of Their strategy and when they realized what Microsoft was doing they were like Cut it like we can cut this and save money And so I think that's probably for the best right if their focus is on gaming. This is a good strategy You know, the big problem is really that they They missed some big opportunities Drive Club got delayed. Yeah. Oops Watchdogs they knew it's a multi-platform game But it was co-marketed for PlayStation had some PlayStation specific features was also one of the few like next-gen games This was a game that was built to be next-gen and it was a bundled game They sold PS4 watchdog bundles. They canceled it three weeks before release They were those bundles were already made like the boxes. Yeah. Oops, like it was late So Sony I think came in hot at the last second We're realizing we don't have some of the games that we needed to make this a strong launch line Are they gonna get so with this launch matter is Christmas matter same difference for them really? I don't think unless they announced stuff March April. They haven't set a date. Okay So destiny is also another multi-platform game that's being co-marketed. That's the one made by Halo date, yeah, bungee former Halo developers So that's on Xbox one as well and elsewhere, but it's co-market for ps3 meaning our ps4 You'll get some extra levels or features or modes or whatever Um infamous second son is gonna be their big first party exclusive for q1 or first half of next year It looks really good infamous as a game. It's been critically well received but There's government conspiracy, but you have superpowers. Yep, and you're in Seattle. It looks like Seattle and you're just around. Yeah, it's cool. Anyway, uh, I know that they're all government conspiracies. It's it's not the little details. Yeah Here's what's disappointing for me about ps4 and the reason I was so excited about launch I was so excited about at e3 Indies yeah, right this big focus on indie support Explain why Sony is different in this field in Microsoft. I think Microsoft's playing catch-up and I think in some which is so weird You know who you want to believe PC. Yeah, but who you want to believe Microsoft isn't even playing catch-up They're playing catch-up from a marketing standpoint and that idea at Xbox was always their strategy And the only reason I believe them on that is because this idea that every Xbox is a debug It's such a big ambitious idea. They're nowhere close They're not close to it. Yeah, but the idea that they even came up with it It was like that's like a big idea like you must have known that before and you just weren't ready to say it because you're far Away from it. Yeah, right, but then they got so beat up on the absence of Indies that they were like, look guys We have a plan. We're just like far away But so Sony's strategy It's not every ps4 is a dev kit It's not like an iPhone where you can just dab right on it and publish yourself directly and Apple takes a cut, right? They are still going around tapping Indies on the shoulder and saying hey, you seem like a cool dude We want your game. They're giving in these are not giving their loaning in these two dev kits, which are normally like 10 grand They're expensive. Yeah, but they're loaning it to them So they don't have to pay for it and they're giving them a publishing deal where they take a fixed rate There's no contract negotiation. Here's what we take. Yeah, it's similar to the competition. I've been told yeah, so 30% is Apple's cut So you can assume that that's how it works on ps4, but it's still this manual process So we're gonna go around and tap people on shoulders and pick games What if you didn't tap Rovio and didn't get Angry Birds? But if you didn't tap, you know supercell and get clash of clans on iOS Like you can't win every game that way one of their games at launch was called contrast and we gave it a horrible review It wasn't very good. So Indies like the market helps you That's what Microsoft talks about a lot But there are a lot of the Indies that they announced on stage D3 where Indies that we've been writing about on polygon for six Months, they're exciting and they're cool And there's a bunch of them. There's a lot And now I'm around launch. Yeah, they had a reso gun by a city called house mark Which was also a launch title for ps3 also a launch title for PlayStation Vita and now another house mark game It's launched out for ps4. It's really good. It's the best game of the lineup But where's all the other Indies? And also, you know if it's like I love reso gun like it's a hard game to show other people It's like it looks like a space shooter. It's like it looks like noise Yeah, like if I'm gonna show anything like the family to non hardcore gamers like it's knack and knack is not it's fine for an hour It's really fun for an hour. You played it for an hour yesterday on the live stream I know we played for a half hour and then David tried to teach me Madden and that was embarrassing Oh, I should watch that part. I don't know about that. They do have Madden at launch. Yes, that's something It's always a racing game a sports game a shooting game and something that the family is supposed to like but it's built by people Who don't know what families are interestingly EA moved up the release date of Need for Speed rivals by a week By the way, in order to hit as far as I can tell not a two-player game in any way need for speed rivals Yeah, probably not. No, but yeah, what rivals like like it's a game with a cop other side and you're running from the cops and robbers played Need for Speed hot pursuit many times and like the best part is I I'm the On the internet with other people I'm in my home Yeah, okay, so what I understand that's another web co-op split-screen local multiplayer That is not a huge thing at launch at all for either. There are some I think I think ghosts has split-screen Yeah, ghost knack sports. I'm sure Madden has yeah two-player. It's like I don't know I mean general it's not a big focus for a lot of games Couch multiplayer is popular for certain games that are really good at it Um, the most popular game at Vox's New York office here by a long shot. Yes is Towerfall. Yeah, which right now is an OUYA Game it's supposed to be coming to PC at some point and It's like the best game ever. Um, that's a good that's a game where even if they had online multiplayer who wants it It's like it works really well I'm sorry. I think that's the one thing in 10 has always gotten right every launch like that You can play at home with friends no matter what you look at the Wii U which we reviewed a year ago The criticisms we gave it where that the hardware was half-baked. Yeah, you know the online was half-baked They didn't fix a lot of the problems, but There's some good launch games, right? That's the thing about Nintendo was like that like you can count on that Even they had some good third-party exclusive zombie you was like a really unique use of that screen We haven't seen a use of that second screen as good as that since that and that was a lot Let's talk about that for like two seconds Like Xbox 360 way back when launching a year before ps3 and Wii and like when the PS3 was first coming out They had Gears of War so we're one year into Wii U they have a one-year head start Is there anything that's like even comparable to like what's going on? We are running a review for Super Mario 3d world It's a Mario game. It's a Mario game. If you like Mario games I don't think I'm giving too much away based on our preview coverage. You're gonna really like this one. Yeah And that's it there was there's Mario there's Pikmin 3 in August if you like Do you know what Nintendo could win the season by putting out Mario for the iPad? General intended win the season. I'm gonna I'm gonna go with a more realistic more money than either one of these guys I think more realistic Mario and iPad would be hard to control. Yeah, I think if they were to make you see iPad games Yeah, I didn't stop anybody else. They were to make a Nintendo Pass, let's call it. Let's call it Nintendo all you can play but the U is spelled with the U because it's Wii U Um all that makes me want to kill myself and um really want to do a suicide. Hey And it's not all you can play is 999 a month Yeah Okay And you get every NES game then to know as the rights to every SNES game in to knows the rights to every n64 And they have the rights to every GameCube game and it's all on your Wii U and you can just load them up play Whatever you want, right 999 a month They're just ROMs you can download them from from that torrent right now Like you literally if you were to don't do it because it's legal, but if you were to search for it You can find all that stuff. Do it. Um, you are a you are a Six minute download from every NES and SNES game of all time, right? Um Why can't I get those on they make a big deal of the release of earthbound It's like that's one game and everyone's already pirated a million times. It's a game for decades. Yeah Yeah, it's like I even said it was smart. You had this amazing history I will pay you for that. Yeah, people are paying five dollars a month for PlayStation Network and Xbox Live just to play games online not even to get a bunch of free stuff Part of this was like Sega strategy Sega bounced out of like the console industry. It's like look we have Sonic people like the hedgehog Let's just put that on other consoles people like the hedgehog people like the hedgehog And like well and that and that Sega example is the best example for why Nintendo should not do this. Yes. Yeah It's not Worked um, so Yes for I think he's back the poor decrepit PS4 I think the PS4 is it's very pretty is really Great, like I think it's a great system. Does it run it runs? I'm sure it's a Linux based minus, um, but it Like yeah, it's not as far as I can tell it doesn't like it's this is very much the PS3 Vita kind of interface. It's not a WebKit browser either. It's actually a WebKit browser I loaded it up and looked at it. It says like Mozilla something but it's WebKit. Okay, so Mozilla but it's WebKit. It says Mozilla to be like or rather the character or the But it's a WebKit based browser, um It's nice. Here's the thing I can say about it. It's very fast Um, I think it's built to be changed the ps3 wasn't they couldn't really change much of it and this is different I think this menu that you're looking at right now the notifications on use one of the examples of a confusing menu Here's the settings. This makes no sense to me. This is the settings menu is also confusing. They make these lists of things and so The ps3 at the same problem the leftmost settings menu is just like here's a list of everything Right in this case you have like the notifications menu which has underneath it notifications invitations game alerts downloads and uploads Next to it you have friends and I'm there there's other inboxes like friend requests and also name requests Both of those are also notifications though. They go over in this other one Like it's there's some confusing. This is like this is hilarious to me Because it's so thoroughly captures the reality of this market which Sony builds incredible hardware. Yes, and Microsoft is a software company Yep, and there's software. I will tell you the Xbox one software is It's it's I mean there's is when I was playing with it. There's like dead ends and weird stuff all over the place And they're saying they got to finish it But it's an operating system in a truest sense of like this feels like an operating system I think I want to find things it's easier to find on that like and this is thing like the what's new section of The PlayStation 4 UI what the hell were they thinking? It's a it's a it's a river It's one side is like what here's Twitter feed for PlayStation the other size library things you downloaded 100 squares in between is everything you've ever played or opened in your life in reverse chronological Even if you open a new disc, it could be 12 things down. You'll never find it It's it's hard. You can't play a desk. They told us that they're at their event here in New York. Basically said like Yeah, like this works for now So like look at the screen look at the screen right here It should be this this be the first this is I think where it's like They made a game console and then they like added in some of this other stuff this operating system stuff And it's like they didn't think it through because they were so focused on making like Chris said like a better game console Which I applaud them for because they're focused and like I think they made a good game console. Yeah, I think it's a focus They didn't They didn't get to have in 2006 It's like part of me feels like I don't care. What is this excuse? I didn't get to have it because they were building this blu-ray media powered thing That was a good idea. There's a corporate mandate to build a media box It's funny cuz that's Microsoft's corporate mandate right now, yep without question Sony's big thing is one Sony like everything should be integrated like this thing I should under the Sony plays blu-rays, but they don't want to talk about that No, because they can't talk about it it look if you're Sony right now and you are Cause her I you the CEO of Sony and you've got Often confused for cost. Yes. I'm often you would be you're both very handsome. Uh, who said who's ahead of PlayStation? Andrew that house Andrew house. Is it officially? For people it's it's it's Andrew house and then Phil Molina who runs Sony Electronics, right? So you've got these two guys Phil Molina was running around his brother if you didn't know I don't know it's not true. I'm always I do always get them confused by the way, it's very it's like it's not right Well, it's also Phil Spencer at Microsoft is software than Peter Molyneux. It's very confusing first I'm always like what inscrutable riddle do you have for me today and feels like it's a 4k TV Your TVs watched you He's like a nice guy I ever I go to Sony Electronics events and he's like 4k TV better audio like more pixels more bits Yeah, and that's they're pushing that for it and it doesn't do any of that. Don't anything happened. This is my reading I have no idea Sony doesn't talk about the stuff Who runs Sony now Cause right. Yeah, yes cause right. What did cause right do before he ran Sony? He ran PlayStation and what do you do before you ran all of PlayStation? You're in PlayStation of America specifically. Oh, right So any computer team in America? Japanese American educated lived here ran PlayStation here Yeah, which was their strongest market for a long time and grew the PlayStation brand He has a lot of credibility inside the company, but he also understands what PlayStation is good at right? Sony's good at which is video games. I think when they were making PlayStation 4 This was a guy who was in America watching the PlayStation 3 Sorry, this is guys in America watching the PlayStation 3 get its butt kicked Yeah in an embarrassing way because of decisions that were made really far away This is this is the Kim Kutaragi held pre Howard Stringer Sony This is we are gonna make a cell powered blu-ray player for the home. That's gonna cure cancer Didn't have like two HDMI ports at some point at one point at two HDMI ports to Ethernet point. It was like Yeah, it was a computer. It was a computer. That's no computer has that many HDMI I think Kaz watch that from America and I think the American audience more than most audiences I mean the PlayStation 3 relative to North America did better in Europe and Japan. I have a launch PS 3 So why I saw it's beautiful 600 pounds 11 times right here. Yeah, so I I think when they were doing the PlayStation 4 I think that there was a focus like I said a focus they didn't get to have in 2006 where it's like look This is what we do. Well, let's do that. Let's stop with this other stuff 4k, you know, what 4k games are like, they're gonna like nothing because it's too many pixels, right? Let's just make a good game. This is the issue. I think you're either called it or battlefield for Review mentioned this it was great battlefield for whatever it was like it's more pixels 1080p actual 1080p on PS4 Yeah, but on the Xbox 720 I've got a lot of this but it's consistent framerate 60 frames per second I think push what they could I think ghosts I Think they're gonna patch it really Battlefield runs 1080p and it runs really well. Okay, I think ghosts it's it's this new engine It's not I mean the other thing is it's not out yet. Like that's like they have they've had review events It's the day one patch that we played it on they've acknowledged it Like IGN also wrote up trying to bomb rub like it wasn't just us saying it had a framerate problem on ps4 And and for and for at least for us and think some other outlets agree Resolution doesn't matter. Yeah, right frame rate dips Especially in multiplayer where you're trying not to get shot We watched a bunch where you're playing with a piece where we watched a bunch of framerate dips Yeah, first we did it so a lot actually it's launched up. It's early. We weren't having any fun We were just intently staring at the screen Watching the framerate is a more powerful console. I think you will see it because it's so close to the Xbox one Differentiate itself on multi-platform games. Yeah, I think some of these are first games have need some work. Yeah, you know, whatever But I experience the PlayStation by the way through the ps3 and now just a little bit of ps4 I has been waiting for things to download right? That's all It's like I want to do something in the PlayStation and the entire PlayStation universe is like but wait for something else to happen I think you're gonna see the same thing on on Xbox one So the way that both of these consoles work is that you have to install every game before you can play it. Yeah I mean they both work that way they both come with 500 card drives and games need to be on the hard drive to run The way that they both do it also is that you can start playing games before they're done downloading And I'm actually not entirely positive if that works day one on Xbox one But on ps4 you can start playing a game before it's done downloading if you put a disk in It will start immediately copying files before you do anything. It just starts copying right? Um, you can start playing that right away Really quickly and it will keep installing the background. We were playing NBA 2k14 last night We were playing it within about a minute maybe 90 seconds because it had to install some stuff first Yeah, then we're playing it and the install was like another half an hour But it gave us enough stuff right away and it's like pick your lineup So you're picking your team and so loaded that stuff and it loaded those players and it loaded that one stadium And then your gate your matches 30 minutes install in the background That was a super elegant way of doing it. And sometimes it's frustrating to say I Want to play this immediately, but on the other hand We were in a game in 90 seconds. Yeah, and then by the time it was done it was installed Compared to ps3. I remember specifically Metal Gear Solid 4 when that came out In its defense they were very creative about the whole 37 minutes all process. Here's snakes smoking a cigarette Here's a bunch of random humors like kind of funny fact is changed You know next time war never changes. So I Mean they've masked some of it right they went into it and said look we know this is gonna be a problem Let's lean into it and make it the best we can Like I said, I'm not sure about Xbox one, but I know it does install games And I think they also allow you to download games start playing them. So it's similar thing with the Xbox one in at this They built a computer. It's a Windows PC I don't know why it doesn't do Windows PC things like not like desktops and file copying. It's got MS Paint on there Yeah, I mean why doesn't it like connect control it does like this app situation? So I'm talking about this for Xbox one and when they announced ID at Xbox it was like duh. Yeah, you can self publish stuff Yeah, like on a Windows PC is like right exactly like you so Windows PC Yeah, and like what they're not talking about yet and Al Pinello at Xbox said, you know I asked him about it last week at the New York. He said like you have to talk to the idea Xbox guys. Um, So you can make games you can independently? I want to independently publish my Spotify app because I'm Spotify right and you guys have Xbox music and it's tied into things here and there That's cool. Give me the hooks. I'd really like to tie into that same stuff as Spotify I asked him if a Twitter app would be able to show notifications. I was like, can you build an email app? They don't have the answers for any of this. Yeah, I don't think they know but he basically said look that that would be under The idea Xbox program. I think they're looking at anything self-published to go under there. The thing is that is the That's what they need to win. Yeah, and like My concern about the PlayStation 4 longer term at launch. It's 400 bucks. It's cheaper. It's super powerful It's really nice-looking. It's gonna have a ton of the best indie games in the world on it You can cross play them to your Vita and I really like the Vita a lot It's like one of my favorite systems out now really wait. Wait, I use that thing all the time But what what else are you playing with? I just monkey man. Really? Yeah It's like another one this great couch multiplayer monkey persona. It's great person. I do love it's a small portable console I need to play more video games It's got some problems on it like my by far biggest concern with the Vita which drives me nuts They have this new Vita coming out. It still isn't addressed It's a digital system. That's awesome for digital stuff and then they sell you little memory cards that aren't aren't big enough and they are about a This remote play stuff is a 7 to 10 X increase in price. Like it's it's insane So if you I think Sony Sony got some of this right with the PSP go had a lot of storage on it Yeah, if the Vita had had a bunch of internal storage or use SD cards or something, it would be so easy to recommend right now It's like if you're a game nerd like me, I think it's awesome. Well, it's like that really expensive proprietary. It's not quite I This is great in like so the thing is I'm gonna buy this I'm gonna play Madden in bed Then that happy for the first time I work that will work. But the problem is that's text is so freaking I don't need text Okay, he already knows all the moves How you push all the buttons and screen he knows the gold tenor the three-point line can get a hat trick and like not get A red card or whatever the hell No matter how small the text is and it's fine Um, yeah, I've used the shield at home. Yeah, I'm playing PC games and PC games just like ps4 games You know kill zones a great example super dense like it's visually dense There's so much stuff going on when you shrink that down to a Vita screen My eyes are pretty okay It it gives me a headache I couldn't read the tutorials of it when I was gonna gun the mo like it's impossible on that I think it's really cool. I think some games will work really well for remote play Yeah, I think some things like shooters that are too busy like like NAC I think we're scroll for remote play because look at it. It's like big and easy. But yeah, some of it is hard to do Um, it's neat though. I think they've built a neat ecosystem. I think they've built the best video games Video game console out there. Here's right. Here's where I'm landing I don't know what their long-term plan is a Microsoft's long-term plan is really obvious But but my sense of Microsoft's long-term plan is that it is a long-term plan It's a very long term plan. And the thing that they're putting out right now is ultra half-baked And I just wrote, you know a pretty positive 3700 word feature at the 15 minute video on the Xbox one and I feel like five years from now all the things they told me might come true But right at this second, you know, we're gonna get it your reviews coming out. We got we're gonna have a review, too but just playing with what they have now it's like you got a lot of really good ideas here and Your TV idea is terrible. It's really bad. It's just a bad idea. I'm telling you right now it's a good idea for You know if you have if you are a gamer and you have a cable box you never watch your cable box You're like, maybe this will make me watch more TV. Here's the thing if you are anybody else. Here's the thing I did I did a this morning with Morning Edition. Yeah They were interested in the Xbox one because of the way it's being marketed. I think that Microsoft is being savvy I think they've eaten a lot of crow on the web. Yeah For not focusing on games and it's marketing and it's messaging. I Think they also know that they're gonna sell out this year Yeah, they've got a Titan Falls coming and that gamers will go to the platform and that it's a good gaming platform So I'm going to get it for Killer Instinct. It's nothing else. Right? So it's a nostalgic I'm saying I think I think they know that they don't need to even win that audience. Why bother? So we're gonna go to this other audience. I think it's pissing gamers off I think it's you think it's no, I think it's totally smart They need to be like coddled and won over and like told that they're loved Pissing them off but like but they're smart this go after the big audience They should do it But I don't know why they need to convince Grandma to plug in Xbox one into her cable box and then set up a connect to Scope that down Grandma keep losing the remote. She wants to go Xbox Wow Wow, that was racist against grandmothers. It's not Look here's the thing that here's the thing This is old-school first cast just enjoy talking over each other No, so here's the thing that is like myself that Sony Microsoft kill myself because Chris Chris Chris's granny inner granny Told to do something boom to these nuts If Microsoft learned one thing from last generations that like what they did over eight years Means what they did at beginning doesn't matter ps3 had no rumble Blu-ray did not matter as much it was still trying to fail between that a CD I'm saying what they're building they're gonna sell people No, it's going to grow this all this stuff all this its windows. It has Skype. It runs your TV All that stuff is great. These are great ideas and I'm I'm just a hundred percent convinced that people they're gonna use that TV stuff for a day and You know, it's just this is just the mechanics of IR blasting I'm just gonna lay it out there this it doesn't work Like there are places where you're gonna run into a wall where it can't do stuff and you gotta use your cable remote again Watch your DVR and that's it. That's the end of the end of the line I think their point is that they can make an additive experience and that you could put it in somebody's living room They use their cable box just like they do today. Nothing changes You just use your yeah, but you know what happens when you turn on your TV. You got to turn on your Xbox So you don't turn and people are just going to leave the Xbox on which is exactly You turn on your TV and showing you the Xbox screen You got to click over to you got to say watch TV. You got to open the app the TV app Like this stuff is there there's friction. This is my first world I'm saying these are problems Bangna problem the point being is I think I Think Microsoft knows that these are problems. I if I compared to any other Solution on the market my legitimate big question. This is a this is a different discussion, but Why didn't they use? Cable cable card. Oh because it's it's you don't want to do that. Nobody wants to do it That's even worse like that would have been way I've only ever seen one cable card device in my I mean I asked Mark Whitten It's in the P. I asked why didn't she use cable card? He's like that's stupid I asked Ben Smith who's it he's like we thought about it But then we can't you know how many customers direct TV has it's like 25 million What are you gonna do about those people the the cable card? I had a friend that got one of the new Tivo's that uses cable card in Philadelphia Yeah, he used to work for Comcast had contacts could see the building. Okay, very very select And it took him weeks of him complaining on Twitter. Oh, yeah It's a you're they're legally obligated to provide you a cable card You don't want to do you could not get anyone to even acknowledge that cable cards existed at Comcast Like it took him forever and he finally got up and running and he said it's great when it's running But anyway, no, no, I have I called it the best 35 million subscribers direct TV. What are you gonna do? But how are you gonna just how you gonna give this to the revolution starts just not with a cable card One cable card never work. It's just a dish network has like 30 million two Thanks. It's only 60 million people. Yeah, I mean it's not that no, you know, it's actually funny I mean this is these are the numbers right because you know How many subscribers 18 T has when Apple put out the iPhone and only work with 18 T a hundred million like you can? Know it is your technically. Yeah, right, but it's but it's crazy because those are You can't do with TV what you can do with a phone, right? You can't you can't immediately have a hundred million customers in all of America. You can only have little pockets But isn't the argument it's not about cable. It's about it's about cable. Never the ones we just never dealt with To get all of that cable. Yeah, right. So the the Xbox stuff is not gonna be useful to you No, it would be useful in the way that the 360 so for me personally I haven't had cable since the ps4 ps3 came out roughly right? Um I've used and in the funny thing to me about Microsoft's focus on TV is I've used my Xbox to replace it Yeah, right. I got Netflix. I got Hulu. No, this is a goal I think they want to make TV just another app for you But for most people TV is the only thing they do on their TV and the Xbox is the second thing that they do Yeah, I think they I mean at least in interviews I've done they've acknowledged that that we think gaming is so super important and we're in our bubble and we talk about gaming And all the hours people spend gaming and you look at the numbers and it's a yeah TV is where people spend their time So, you know they want the Xbox to get out of the way you watch TV use your remote and if you want to augment It Xbox pause Xbox, whatever. Anyway, um, I Think it's neat. I I for me the TV stuff doesn't mean anything. I don't have cable. I don't want to get cable what I think is neat is that a lot of people out there might justify a $500 purchase if they could bring it home hook it up and Convince their family like hey, you just say Xbox on the TV turns on you say I'll give you a thousand dollars if you convince my wife to say Xbox on ever in her life Wait, it's she'll split 500 with me. No, that's fun. No, she won't It's still not like her dignity is still cost more than $500 Like I get it I get this this is a game everybody wants to play with you know They split the money because I keep making the bet She's not gonna do it. She's not gonna talk to the TV that way because it doesn't It was like I give her a lot more money And I eat the Delta just like a jerk I would take it No, look I just don't believe it like yeah until the voice stuff becomes totally conversational and totally works No one's gonna use it. I'll say this is my voice also Serious changed over time with software. Mm-hmm Yeah, no, look this here's my here's I'm landing and we should talk about these iPads Here's I'm landing on this and maybe you disagree I think if you want to buy a game console now, you should buy a ps4 that's where I then we haven't we haven't reviewed the Xbox at a long time for if you want to buy potential mic drop if you want to buy potential at the end of our review feels like The end of our review we said I think the last line literally ps4 is Potential energy it's like all this possibility. Right? Just I there's nowhere to use it Yeah, you can't spend it. It's all pent up, but it's but it's all it's focused It is a focused price. It is a focused no, but it's focused possibility on video games Yes It's gonna be awesome at video games the Xbox one is right now as far as I can tell We've got to review the thing but as far as I can tell it's potential in a thousand It's the potential of having a computer under your TV. Here's what I don't know what they're gonna do with that You know when I was picking between these things PS for you bought a lot of cool Indies man. I gotta get that I'm not gonna get the Xbox because I don't have cable. I don't give a Quantum break and Titan fall. Yeah We've also the ps4 launch titles like are not great they're not but like in six months in a year Do we have any idea if it's gonna get better? I I think Like what does it look like in a year? I think Sony is way Super acutely cognizant of this failure that they made a gaming system that they talked about as a game Yeah, they launched without a lot of games. Oops. I think this isn't us making them aware of it Oh man, polygon reminded us like no they knew that I think at launch tonight Such a more night. They're gonna make announcements. You're gonna find out about what's coming out next year, right? They are gonna say look we understand that you guys want more stuff. Here's what's coming I think we're gonna hear a release date for infamous second son I think we're gonna hear an announcement of a new uncharted game or something new by naughty dog I think you're going to hear maybe as a guess Some of the ps3 exclusive or ps4 exclusive features of destiny, okay, which they are Co-marketing as their counter programming to Titanfall. It is another though. It's on Xbox also Okay, so so we know that co-marketing works some games that are co-marketed specifically sell better on that platform. They co-market at Batman Arkham Asylum With certain features. It's sold way better on PS Really? Yeah, so like that works. They're doing more of it and If you talked to I mean watch dogs was gonna be multi-platform, but people thought of it as a ps4 title. Yeah So they're gonna do that. I think we're gonna hear about some of that stuff tonight as a incentive to people who haven't purchased yet and as a reward and Encouragement for the people who have purchased it that might not be happy with the games but and also like it's they've got to do it now before the Xbox comes up because if you're changing your mind you change your Mind the next couple weeks and Microsoft we know it Microsoft Scott coming out. They've already shown some of it They talked about it and they've already put Titanfall with a giant pin on the map Right, and then they and in order to hammer that Titanfall one was always gonna be an Xbox PC exclusive in order to really hammer that in they bought the rights to the whole series like oh, okay. Yeah. Oh they did Yeah, it is not just it's not just the first one You will never they bought yeah, uh, yeah good business move. Goodbye. Yeah dump truck of money Hey so Sony needs to respond to that and they have not yet. I think we'll hear it I hope we hear it tonight and they're gonna it's 4k 3d ps4 Glasses it plays two blue rays at once Check it out. I okay. I'm just saying look here. Here's I know we're gonna read your view. I'm sure your every is gonna be very beautiful 360 as well For the one they're the one Jesus, by the way, it's still terrible name. It's just a bad name the X-bone Expon is actually pretty good. I just don't know what they're gonna call the next one Most those guys like they've the Xbox team has been through like three generations of this thing So they're probably thinking ten years from now. It's somebody else's problem It's been like 40 years xbox This is like the last ten years of American politics like just borrow it screw the other guys will be dead Losing the Xbox zero, it's one more thing about the TV stuff. Yeah, everybody at Microsoft to talk to you as a TV Everybody they're always like I look I got a TV. I understand I understand how a cable card is I understand them, you know, it's like I got I got a TV Oh, and it's like, you know, why I have a TV because everybody's cable box sucks That's why because you are you're you're smart. You're you're in the know, right? You're like you're nerds and you have like the money and wherewithal to like get it to purchase a TV Oh deal with cable card and like make it happen because the other option you have is bad and you made a market decision Why did why does your TV solution require everybody else to have this bad cable? I'll say it's about Tiva we gave my old Tivo from 2000 my series 2 to my father-in-law that thing it still runs It was acting real weird. I took it apart. The fan was dead. I replaced the fans. It's great. Yeah Tivo they're just doing stuff. It's cranking. Yeah, like they make their money like licensing like their DVR patent everybody else Yeah, or I imagine like the TV offices being like hey, do we get our check today? So you think we should make a new Tivo or that we got the check? I'm going home like I don't know what they do most of the time like it's just a giant room with like one legal secretary Who's like? Hey, the engineers committing they didn't the check the check came though. Okay, I'm going like I don't know what they do all day They make one product every five years Tivo they finally got there Tivo Tivo. There's their swing All right, so what about the other stuff on here? Bloop All right. Bloop is good. Bloop. iPads? It's it's well, it's just the iPad mini. We already talked about that here. I'm gonna review the iPad mini for you. Did you guys already do a review? We did. You can delete that. I would say white and yellow is a nice combo for that thing. Here's the thing about the iPad mini. It's very fresh. The new iPad mini. In summary. It looks like Easter. It's like the old iPad mini that everyone said that's a cool iPad. That's actually the form factor I always wanted for an iPad, but I'm not gonna buy it until it's got a retina display. Yeah, right That's what everyone on earth said. And I'm also surprised they did this year. For some reason I thought there's gonna be another year. This is the thrust of David's review. I want this super super bad. You want it? You're buying one. Oh, yeah Yeah, I have an iPad 3 retina display. I use an iPad mini. I was like, that's the form factor I want. I also have an iPad 3 with retina. It's a beast. It's a big guy. I use this. It's hot. When the first mini came out and I was like, this is exactly what I want. Let me just look at it. Oh god, my eyes. It's so horrible. The iPad 3, I mean, it's just fun. I've used, I've reviewed the air and I've played with the mini and now I go home and I still have the iPad 3 because I haven't bought one yet. I haven't bought a new one yet. And it's like, you know in the 80s when Russia would make copies of things the United States had and they were like steam powered and enormous. That's the iPad 3. It's like super hot. I'm like sweating when I use it. I'm like, oh the Yankees. I showed them. It's awful. You read books on your iPad and it's tired. Yeah, it's a big guy. Big boy. But that one, so that, by the way, here's your problem. My sense of danger with the iPad mini is it's the iPad 3 again. It's a little bit thicker. It's a little bit heavier. It's smaller. It might get, it gets hot. Right. He knows the passcode. I've been down this road. Does the iPad mini get hot? I've fallen in love with it. It's a little hot. David said his hands sweat when he was using it. But then David, what was he watching? Notoriously sweaty hands. Sweaty hands. SHP. Poor David. He wasn't here to defend himself and I'm taking advantage of it. David has sweaty hands. It's his fault. He didn't want to be here. So that's your whole review? So you're a little iPad guy. I've never had a small tablet before, but I use my iPad all the time. I got rid of my Kindle because I didn't want to carry around two devices. And I don't think the iPad 3 that I use is perfect for the Kindle replacement, but it's good enough because I'm not carrying around two. This feels to me like really good games on this look great. I also kind of want to get rid of my, we'll talk about this with the next segment. I have an iPhone 5. You hate the iPhone 5. It is the worst piece of consumer electronics I've ever purchased in my life. And this is coming from a guy who kind of wants to buy a 3DO just to have for like archival purposes. My iPhone 5 right now, I'm not even kidding, it lasts an hour. And Apple won't fix it. The back case bent open and they're like, user failure. What did I do? Did I put in a vice? Like it's in my pocket. And then on top of that, to make it worse, this is my fault. The other two are their fault. I dropped it just the other day and it was like, I've dropped it a million times. I dropped it like the smallest amount on the corner. Can you see this? It's broken from the corner. Anyway, that's fine. That's my fault. I hate my phone. I want to get a new phone, but I want to keep my iPad for games. What's your hot iPad game right now? Oh man. Have you played Rim Capsule? No, that sounds... Oh man, Rim Capsule. I'm not going to say it at all. It's like an RTS. It's really good. I think FTL just got announced for iOS. It did. Guys, buy FTL. Buy it on your phone right now. What is it? FTL is a really good like rogue-like space sim strategy game. I think I described it okay. Where you basically have to like do these missions and you go through and it changes every time. It's really good. It's a great fit for the iPad. I've always enjoyed it. I have a mini and the only thing I like doing it I'm playing games. I don't like playing games on the big iPad, but the mini is like it's a good size for games. I think the iPad is a little too big. I'm a big iPad dude. One of the things about getting the mini and kind of keeping my iPad ecosystem is I've made a lot of investments between my phone and my iPad on iOS. I need to keep that. I think the mini is a great platform to continue that on and then I can switch my phone to another. That's pretty smart. Like a brand new Symbian phone. The Jolla. Wow. Get the Jolla. Firefox OS. I want this and I can't justify it at all. Why not? I just got the mini. I just got the new Nexus 7 and I got the new 5. The 5S and like this seems enough. This is a big enough screen for like most of the games. You're doing the opposite of me. I'm doing the opposite. I actually thought I was going to be you. I thought I was going to be you and then I got this because I just could not wait any longer. Here's the thing about the 5S. I wanted to get the term iPhone 5 in it so it's off the table for me. I don't want to spend money on it. And then I feel like the bigger screen is better for gaming. Android is not as good as the gaming platform is iOS. Ross, you picked backwards. Android for work. Here's the reason I picked this. iPad for play. I wanted a camera. That's the worst Best Buy mobile tagline of all time. I'm never going to do this. So this is the other discussion and you make a good point. We have a Moto G here which is $179 off contract. But you do have to be like a Brazilian to purchase one. It's coming to the US though. Same price. Sure. They're all coming to the US. Legally, through the right channels. It's a problem with our country today, am I right? Brazilians coming to America. Guys, technically they're in South America. It's still America. This doesn't feel too bad. So here's the thing about Android phones for me. I was refreshing The Verge 18 times a day because it's actually in my contract. But also because the Nexus 5, that slow messed up reveal. Can I say something to the people of The Verge's America? The Verge in America? Virgin America? Can I say something to the people of Virgin America? Your planes are delightful. I appreciate the free Wi-Fi. Just stop calling those seats leather because you and I both know they're not leather. No. I made one mistake about the Nexus 5. This is true. I got a white one. The white one feels like junk. The black one is finished in a beautiful soft touch finish. Totally changes the nature of the device. I hadn't played with the black one in the last show. The black one is far nicer. I have all my complaints from A and the camera still whatever the hell it is. But the hardware is nicer. It feels less flimsy and fragile. The white one is like punishment for colonialism. It's like reverse racism. It's that bad. It's amazing. It's just awful. I'm just saying. I was wrong. I made a mistake. I only played with one of them. There's two of them. The black one is very nice. This is the Nexus 5. The white one is awful. First the HTC One. I was like, man, I got to get that phone. That's a nice phone. Google Play Edition. Yum. It's a little expensive off contract. I've got a contract and I'm not out of it yet. Have I mentioned the iPhone 5? How much I dislike it? Really? The Moto G Prime is a bad camera too. The Moto X came out. I was like, oh, that's tasty. It looks nice. Really? That's how you talk about phones? Yeah. This sexy phone feels good in the hand. Just going to say that before you start criticizing. Always, always. You know what we call it? Good hand feel. Good hand feel. I looked at the Moto X and it was really nice. Bad camera. So I was like, Nexus, Nexus 5. Google's, this is their flagship phone. They're not going to mess this up again. It's going to be cheap off contract. It's going to be right. It's cheapish. Hey, look, I would take the punch on it. The camera's bad again. The camera's miserable. I can get a Windows phone with a good camera. What is going on that nobody's figured out how to make a good camera? Galaxy S4. Does that have a good camera? It's the best you're going to get. For Android at least. How much is it off contract? $700. That's a cool amount of money. Look, here's the idea. Go into Central Park at night. With a gun. With a gun. Okay, well this is like a turn I did not expect. I'm going to take notes. Every phone is free if you steal it. Cut the video real quick and continue telling me the details. Then use the gun. I don't know how you use the gun. Is this customizable? So actually this is the one thing about this phone. This is like an Xbox 360. Guys, we have wood patterns. No, they do have, well they don't have the wood ones yet. But they will. Do you remember the wood? You can just call this the naked skin. There was a plastic wood pattern one. What if you just rocked that and you were just like whatever and it was cool. There was the wood patterned basement paneling themed Xbox 360 because that's a good look for gamers. I kind of want this phone. Why is it so cheap? What's the catch? It's cheap. That's the catch. They made it with a cheaper lower end processor. Did a different screen. Motorola is really good. The screen is less stuff. It doesn't have any of the features of the X. It doesn't have the active notifications. That's the disappointing part for me. But I understand why it doesn't. Look, this is Motorola's new game. They're going to make cheaper phones than everybody else. Which is cool. I applaud them for doing it. I just would rather have a Moto X. Here are the things that does make it awesome if you're willing to have a slower processor and all that. It is Android 4.3. It will get 4.4 in just a few weeks. This is the flagship for the low end KitKat phone. It's cool. It will have more stuff to do. It's a little bit heavier and a little bit thicker than the X. This is acceptable though. By the way, you should never say this is acceptable. This is acceptable. It was more essential than like... I'm going to compare acceptable to my phone. My phone dies... Can we just do an hour of Chris Grant hates the iPhone 5? My phone dies at 30%, which is apparently normal. It was dead by 10 o'clock this morning. I unplugged it at 9. Cool. I hate it so much. It is funny that you have bent it by keeping it in your pocket. I took it to the Apple store. It was happening at GDC. The guy literally said, you didn't have this in your pocket, did you? True story. True story. You're a tall man. A lot of different leverages going on in them jeans. What's going on in them jeans? You got bones no one else has. These six foot below people. You got big bones no one else has? Worst pickup line in history. I like your jeans. Those are some tight jeans. You got bones no one else has. Are your jeans really tighter than an iPhone 5 in your pocket? Seriously, it's an iPhone 5. You probably bent it. That's user error. The other thing, and sorry, Chris Waltz from The Verge actually just let me know, there's no LTE on this. What? Are you kidding me? Nope. Not going to do it. Sorry. That should have been in our headline. Wait, that's why it's so cheap? That's the answer. I can make a phone for $150 with no LTE in it. Yeah. Come on. What are we doing? Why is that even on this show? I'm so sorry for the past 30 minutes we've been talking. Are you kidding me? What? What are we doing? The Nexus 4 was a highly reviewed phone. It was a highly reviewed mistake. Sorry, what are you going to do? You can't do HT video on this. I'm still dealing with this fallout from Josh in the Nexus 4. And the fact that he was like, to this day, is like, I mean, it's an LTE phone. Of course it costs $700. It's table stakes. I'm with you. No LTE, no game. Huh? It should be in the headline. Dan Seifert wrote that post. Dan Seifert, come down here with your laptop right away. He's in upstate New York. I thought he was upstairs. Dan Seifert, get on a train. Get on a YoBus. Come down here right now. Are you kidding me? You just... I just found that because we didn't say Motorola makes mistake for low-end phones. Motorola insults Brazil. That should have been our headline. How about this? Motorola sacrifices any usable internet speed for cheap phone. That's a good headline. It shouldn't even be that expensive. It's all Qualcomm can do. Just think of it as an iPod Touch for Android. I don't want that. Why do people buy iPod Touches? Because of all the great apps. No one has ever said I want to get Android because of all the great games I can play. It's true. I can't defend this anymore. Chris, you should just buy an iPad mini with LTE and just run Skype. Just use Skype the whole time. I'm not far off from it, man. I want that iPad mini so bad. Here's the other thing. My iPad 3 is old. I've used it a lot. The battery lasts 17 days. I can stream video for 17 days. I turn this thing on and it blows up in my hand. Can we just do an hour of you hating the iPhone 5? The point being is like, the iPad is so awesome. I just want that phone. iOS 7 on the iPad is still like, what the hell? Do you have iOS 7 on your iPad? Particularly on the iPad 3, that's when the real Soviet made nature of the device comes through. It's like, there's steam coming out of the vents. On the mini, when you load up, do we have this on video? There's little things you can do all over the mini, and actually the iPad Air has the same processor where you can make it stutter. What's the... We need dad to unlock you. Here you go, Sarah. This is really... Billy, are you going to come point a camera at this thing? I was expecting you to use the closer camera. I'm going to get really far away and zoom in. That's my favorite. He's like on point. Billy Disney, ladies and gentlemen. By that, I mean that one camera. This is really simple. It's the dumbest thing here. I've got it. I'm just going to open Spotlight. It stutters every time. Mine does too. When you push this button, if you have a lot of apps open, switching the keyboard from the letters to the numbers freezes. When you do the... Also, carefully, we're going to David's accounts before... No, I'm just going to open Keynote. I'm just going to open Snapchat. When you do this five finger pinch, this is super stuttering. It's just like those three things. That's how I use an iPad. Did we show this Spotlight? Does this do the Spotlight ghost? When you do... What are you doing? Here. I'll do it again. Here, I'm going to try to open Keynote out of Spotlight. It's just going to... Somebody tweeted. When you do it on the 5S, it shows you the letters ghosting. These are just tiny little things about iOS 7 that drive me crazy. They're magnified because they're physically bigger on the iPads. They stand out to me. Fair enough. I launch every app from Spotlight, so that little bit of stutter when you pull it down, it's like waiting. Again, we're speaking relatively, because if this is a gaming machine, you're comparing it to the PS4, and dear God, I can get to a game. Neither one of the new consoles, as far as they built Windows PCs, they're slow Windows PCs. Somebody tweeted, I should rectify. Before I said Microsoft bought future rights to Titanfall, that apparently is not true. At least I don't have any non-published information. They bought the future rights to the first Titanfall on other platforms. I heard that Sony could get a Titanfall 2, or whatever you want to call that. I guess that's true, but even that... They've been pretty clear that the first game was an Xbox-only game, so if the deal seems weird, then why would you buy the... Either way, NeoGaf is... NeoGaf is a little on edge this week. NeoGaf is on it. They're on edge this week. Those guys are like... This is the biggest moment they've ever had. It's true. It's exciting. We've got to wrap this up. Let me ask one question. It was a question I wanted to ask at the start. Why are they planning these for 10 years? Why not two years? They've not seen what's going on here? That's a good question. I don't know if... Apple is putting out a new box. Roku puts out a new box every 20 minutes. I saw eight of them. Here's the thing. Why can't they say in three or four years' time, it's PS4 Plus? It's got a better, faster processor. Now that it's X86, it's much easier for them to do that. I just don't understand. If they can retain backwards compatibility and move things forward... They would have to sell enough and make it worth the investment enough. Speaking of Titanfall, the reason it makes sense, and the reason it would be so expensive for Microsoft to buy all rights of Titanfall forever, would be that you have to sell so many units. The reason Bungie wanted to leave Microsoft to make multi-platform games, the reason Destiny is multi-platform, is because they're looking at the success of Call of Duty. Halo is so good, and Call of Duty is just outselling it like crazy. Because they have all these different platforms. You need install base. It's the same reason that a lot of iOS devs aren't specifically targeting the new phones. They'll target everything. Because they don't want to limit their audience to just that. If it can degrade down... And I think getting to X86, theoretically, could make this possible, where Battlefield 4 runs on an older gaming PC with an older video card, and a new GTX 770 with a lot more features enabled. So they could maybe create, just like on PC, a forward compatibility strategy, where you get the newest version of the game and it looks better on your new system. And that way, they're constantly pushing it forward. Boyd Malter at Microsoft was like, we'll do 4K eventually. Because 10 years, a decade from now, people will have 4K TVs. They've got to flip the switch sometime. Microsoft did... PS3 was this crazy freaking cell thing. How far can you take that before you have to reset the platform? No, that's great. We can make excuses for not doing backwards compatibility all you want, but that definitely means I'm not buying an Xbox One or PS4. That's completely fair. But 4K is what? It's three years away. But the resolution hit is four times the vertical resolution? Yeah, there's four. You're talking about... If we're having trouble hitting 1080p at 60 frames a second, how are we doing 4K? It's missed in 4K. Just point and click each beautiful screen. It's one frame per second. It would need to be hardware that is so far beyond what we have now. Or different types of games where you're rendering vector-based games. Where you're just filling screens with things without textures and stuff. So Spectre. Spectre for the Mac Classic in 4K. Star Wars Arcade back in the day. Or Virtual Boy. Nice. I asked Shuhei Yoshida at Sony when they launched the PS4, the reveal event here in February, if they were planning to do 4K. And he basically said, we'll do 4K for your home movies and pictures. But for gaming, it's so far away that we're not even talking about it. I went to a friend's office. He's a high-end home theater dude. Rich people contract at his company to put fancy home automation systems in. And they had the Sony 4K TV in the circle with the light. And we just sat there in the dark watching demo reels. There's a family company that just goes diving with a 4K camera. And I'm convinced their entire business is just selling demo reels to Sony. So basically you've just gotten the wrong business. I mean, it seems like an awesome business. I mean, it's like a view of a reef. And it's 15 minutes away from the ocean. And it's like 15 minutes of them just looking at a fish with a camera. But the fish on the TV in the dark, because they're like the dealers, so it's like perfectly calibrated. It's just like a beautiful picture of a fish. And they're like, why aren't we selling more of these? Because people don't sit in the dark and look at beautiful 15-minute movies of fish all day long. But if you could convince them to do that, it would be incredible. Marijuana is going to be legal one day. Yeah, I mean, it was an incredible experience. I mean, it was emotional. It was moving. You know what I recommend? It's cheaper too. Just buy a fish. Yeah, but you can't get like, I mean, this is like, these were fish. One of them was a whale, to be honest. It's like NASA trying to figure out how to make a pen that writes upside down. Yeah, you just buy a fish. But let's be honest. What would you rather have? A $10,000 beautiful saltwater aquarium or a 4K TV? Yeah, it's tough. I don't want either is the answer. Like, honest to God, I'm just fine. What if it's a really thin aquarium that looks like a 4K TV? What's the nicest aquarium I can get for $500? I need a wallpaper of a fish and spend the rest of the money on a good beer or something. Yeah, $10,000. An aquarium keg. The Chris Grant story, by the way. And this is really the driving force behind Polygon. Yeah, I want to make a website, get it to be successful enough, sell it for $10,000. It's a real Snapchat story, that right there. And then buy myself a saltwater aquarium. $3 billion. I'll take 10 Gs to build a saltwater aquarium. Get 10 Gs and some beer and we're good. All right, we should wrap this up. I'm getting silly. I'm still mad about the Moto G. Ross, you have a lot to answer for with that thing. My fault? I'm not a fan of super. Should we call it the Moto 3G? Just like straight up put it in the name. Put it in the name. God, I hate everything. That was the Vergecast. I'm really happy you came. I am. I know that we talked about video games for a long time, but we're going to do it again next week because the Xbox One is coming out next week. And I'll have actual things to say about television and what it can do and the fact that it's a Windows PC without the Windows Store, which is very strange to me. But we'll have more games. We'll have more PS4 games. We should, yeah, absolutely. Especially if Chris' outlandish theories about tonight are true. Are you going to a launch event tonight? We might. We have some reporters that are going. I think we have some interviews set up. We're debating over how many people to send because we've already done all the coverage. I don't know. We'll see. It's at the standard hotel. They have it all covered in PlayStation. I heard there was like a room, they did 40 rooms of video games there. That sounds insane. You go to the lobby, the PlayStation symbol is just all down the middle. When you go to the elevator, there's a directory on the wall of the elevator of which floor has which things. That sounds insane. I should say our PlayStation review, which will pale in comparison to Polygon's, but we did one anyway because we lumber through life in the shadow of our video gaming brethren. Our review will be soon. You really know how to sell this website. We do some good stuff. You know. It's a website, kind of. Sometimes we have stuff. You visit it. I have a lot of thoughts. Guys, it's for sale on Craigslist for $10,000 if you're interested. Sandwich.com, by the way. Yahoo is selling Sandwich.com this week. It's a real late night bit that I'm about to get into. Yahoo selling Sandwich.com, which is true and we should buy it. I've already brought it up with Jamaica. Wow. I'm not a late night comedian. That's how you're ending with a mock table flip. This is really ending in shambles here. Just say goodbye. Please, God, let that be the Verge cast. I'm happy you came. Neil Ives, Rikless. Owner Roscoe Noe. Chris Grant is at Chris Grant. You can email us at Vergecast at Verge.com. Ross is taking the reins here. You look like you need help. I do. I'm flailing. Look, you can get a hold of us. I know you're going to have things to say about video games, the fact that I had ideas about video games, which most of you hate, but Chris is here and I think he did a good job. So that was a Verge cast goodbye.