 Welcome to the WAN Show guys. We would like to apologize for the incredible slowness with which we got the show going today We had a number of issues first and foremost was the fact that our where is that thing because I think we should just destroy It on camera okay So our Behringer headphone splitter and amplifier has gone further than having one dead port and has now failed out right and is causing all kinds of random interference so this thing Can die in a fire then my display port output on my other notebook you can see I'm not using my notebook this week Decided that it did not want to be imported by the AverMedia capture card nor the black magic extra Backup capture card that we have on our stream PC, so I had to run and find another notebook to use so between those two issues We've had to redo our audio setup We've had to change over my notebook And I believe we actually Redid the networking in this room while we were at it and we did all that in half an hour so as much as we're Very sorry for being late. We do sincerely apologize. We hope that you're at least a little bit impressed that we managed to bring the show To you at all today So guys without further ado welcome to the WAN Show our topics today Oh first of all our special guest is Wendell from Tech Syndicate by popular demand We're actually going to be bringing him on pretty much right away Because we're starting late, and we're going to have a ton of discussion about AMD's event that just ran this week There's lots of new stuff about Mantle, AMD's upcoming Kaveri APUs in January as well as I mean Just cool stuff software stuff like Tress FX 2.0 Which is apparently going to do more than make a ponytail waggle back and forth realistically most of the time We've also got lots of console stuff to talk about so One of them of the many console topics is the PS4 streaming to Vita compared to Nvidia streaming from a PC to Nvidia Shield which I think is actually pretty interesting Yeah, we actually got a PS4 today So we are definitely going to be doing some high-speed footage comparing the latency of shield to the latency of PS4 I guess we'll have to get a Vita. Oh balls cable. We'll have to do that. Okay anyway You're probably gonna use Vita without further ado. Here's the intro. Oh Oh Oh So guys our sponsor for the WAN show this week is hotspot shield hotspot shield is an easy VPN solution and There's actually a couple misconceptions about it. So people think that it is ad-supported No, if you buy the elite version and you use offer code Linus you save 20% And it is not ad-supported if you're using elite so VPNs allow you to mask your location and identity From casual browsers. I mean if the NSA is real determined to figure out who you are They probably can but it also allows you to circumvent Geographical restrictions on services such as Netflix or even Google services in countries where they're not allowed to be used So it's uh Yeah, I mean I just said everything it does right Essentially, all right, so without further ado guys, let's launch into our first topic before we have Wendell join us So Kev very is AMD's upcoming APU architecture So it's going to be changing over from the previous generation cores to I believe our bullets What's the new one called? Is it steamroller or? No, I think it's steamroller. So they're gonna be changing over to steamroller cores, which is going to amount to essentially Improved performance and single threaded applications, which let's face it guys AMD has been due to deliver us for a While here. We've been looking at pretty much for a from a per-clock basis Not a whole lot of improvement in the last few generations of AMD processors They've done things like adding more cores and they've done things like increasing clock speeds But the actual IPC hasn't changed a whole lot So we're gonna see a dramatic improvement there. The other thing that we're going to see improved is Multi-threaded performance. So this is going to be augmented by certain software things that are gonna be changing over the next little while particularly for gamers with mantle but Kaveri is going to improve single threaded performance multi-threaded performance and Dramatically improve GPU performance. So this was a tweet from Ryan shroud who I've actually arranged to join us next week I don't know if you knew this yet cool. So Ryan's gonna be joining us next week. He was at the event We unfortunately weren't able to attend but this tweet he says Just saw AMD Kaveri running battlefield 4 at 1080p Medium settings beating the Intel 4770 K and GeForce GT 630 GPU Impressive especially impressive when you consider that that Kaveri CPU APU GPU, whatever you want to call it that Kaveri APU is probably Going to be significantly less expensive than that other solution Now I suspect that AMD was picking and choosing the comparison a little carefully there because the 4770 K costs a hundred dollars more Than a 4670 K and doesn't tangibly improve the gaming performance in most games. Whereas spending that extra hundred dollars on a GPU But it's kind of a field for maybe but in battlefield for maybe but I think we can still agree that spending Another hundred dollars on a GPU would have made a bigger difference. We actually just did some testing recently that maybe you'd like to talk about A little bit so we normally don't review low-end stuff and we normally don't review stuff that But we think is stupid because what's the point of us giving exposure to products that we think are stupid? But recently just to kind of you know fly in the face of everyone saying how we're we're this and we're that and we don't Do these things I decided to do it. We grabbed an r7 240 graphics card, which is an $80 card very value oriented Or is it no No, really? If you put down the rebate and actually do it unlike many people know and decide to get a 70 77 77 70 you pay the rebate it's basically the same price and is incredibly better and if you decide to get a You want a new generation one if you shove out a little bit more and get a 260 X. It's way way way way better so Basically the Linus wanted to torture me and have me tested our 72 40 which was torture Yeah, what was benchmarking like at 9 frames per second? I'm just curious I I had to run the far cry benchmark way more than I normally run it because if you guys have seen the far cry benchmarking Video, you know, I go around that loop and I kind of bend around the corners and trying to get up and hit those barrels Whatever and I have to be hitting the barrels and I try to dodge guys that's and rockets I have to dodge rockets dodge all the rocket but I get hit by rocket I have to restart because it changes the frame rate too much So I was constantly getting hit by rockets so I couldn't dodge them It's get moved properly and I was constantly like just skimming barrels not hitting them and just being like, ah Well, I need that time increase so I kind of need to restart Come on Right hit an angle around a corner just kind of weird and hit something and it would stop the car and I'd be like, okay So basically guys what we're trying to say here is if you really want a value optimized graphics solution Check out AP use we actually have a build guide that we're gonna be working on very very soon We're gonna be bringing that to you guys where we're gonna do kind of like a five hundred to six hundred dollar APU System so it's gonna be optimized for using open CL to accelerate certain workloads such as Adobe Photoshop some of the filters you can apply our open CL accelerated It'll also be focused on the upgrade ability of an APU So you can have entry-level gaming today then you can pop a hundred and fifty hundred dollar graphics card in it and you can have a truly excellent gaming experience That's as good or better than what you can get with a game console for really that not that much more expensive Especially when you consider the additional functionality, so I am an advocate of APU I'm an advocate of graphics cards that are about a hundred dollars and up but that low-end graphics card market whether it's AMD or Nvidia We're not meaning to pick on AMD with the r7 240 They just they came up. Yeah, their number was up. So I mean there's other AMD solutions that we like So I would say yeah, and like you just said something like a 630 Probably equally stupid. Yeah. Yeah, so the thing is Upgrade your entire system if you have $80 to spend to grab a cheap APU and a motherboard And that's that's and sell your old stuff get a couple bucks there Maybe you can get 20 bucks for it If it's really old that gives you an extra little bit to maybe grab, you know A little bit of RAM or you can get 4 gig RAM kits. I think for like 25 bucks these days I was looking at at them online the other day. Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say with the RAM shortage Yeah, yeah So I mean yeah upgrade your system get reasonable performance and then upgrade a little bit again later All right. So without further ado, let's invite our special guest Wendell from tech syndicate by popular demand Why hello there, sir. You might not be able to hear me yet, but you might be able to hear me now Cuz he was just doing the things He's there yes You left us in suspense there we've redone the audio setup which means that we really just don't know what's gonna work and what's not Hey, man, how are you? Yeah, I've had better days thank you for asking Yeah So, uh, oh, oh what? Whoa people are saying they can't hear Wendell. Okay. Okay. Give us just a moment here. We got a hmm Why? Uh, hold on it's on this one isn't it? I have no idea. Yeah Okay, Wendell give us a moment we might have a bit of a team speak configuration thing going on here. Oh It's like, you know the NSA who of course is probably a big fan of you Just doesn't doesn't want this show to happen. So they like, you know Hacked our stream PC here. Oh my god something Conspiracy theories abound here. So they they don't want this stream to happen. So they came into our house with You know, oh actually Wendell. Can you talk for a minute? Let's see if they can hear you know, oh to spot taxonomic nomenclature Okay All right. Welcome to the show man. Now. We've only met in person once before but I think we had a fair bit of fun going to that restaurant that Logan couldn't eat anything at and Or it was kind of fun that was kind of fun So why don't you just take a brief moment and introduce yourself to those few of our viewers who don't already know who you are I'm hey guys. I'm Wendell I'm on loan from tech syndicate and I sort of take care of the forum a little bit over there and some of the technical things and I do a little bit of everything so I I sort of I'm sort of the nerd that knows nerds out with Logan, I guess All right. So speaking of nerding out Why don't we just go ahead and jump right into our first guest topic here, which is a little bit out of order But this this was a post on Intel's Facebook not that long ago I'm just gonna go ahead and show all the nice folks watching this thing. So Intel says Speaking of nerding out Not knowing what to eat with the smart refrigerator concept we're developing Which is a little bit out of order but what food is stored inside of them and it suggests possible recipes So they've got crap on here. It's like a little recipe match. It's like pointing at stuff and giving you a little recipe I mean this is a very first world problem having so much variety in the food that we can choose to eat that we need a computer to tell us What to eat and when and how but tell me about this concept and how Intel might not have been the first one to think of this oh Well, I think what you're talking about is um in college. I built something similar but it was a It was a little different. Okay, so the Intel thing is they've got the fridge and you know, the fridge knows what's inside it And blah blah. I didn't really do that Well, why don't you tell us what you what you did have running because it sounded pretty cool when you were telling me about it I've got um, so what I did was, you know It's it's very much foul bachelor frog if you can imagine foul bachelor frog So a lot of frozen dinners were sort of you know in my future but I had a barcode scanner hooked up to a microwave oven and So I could take something out of the freezer and scan it with the barcode scanner and put it in the oven But you know a frozen dinner in a microwave oven that never comes out Well, so I got one of the fancy ovens with the turntable And so it's like, you know running high for five minutes and then sleep for two minutes and then spin it the other way for a Minute and a half. I got kind of fancy with the programs for the programmable microwave. So that was kind of fun But you know fresh vegetables, there's no barcode so it didn't work So basically what you had what you had managed to build was something that would have terrible implications for the health of anyone that That that that used it because no one would ever eat vegetables anymore only things with barcodes Yeah, you'd have to you would have to prepare your meals ahead of time I guess for like the way that that but it was you know, a minimum of effort I mean, how cool is that you can just pop open the fridge scan it put it in a thing and then when it beeps it's done It's actually pretty freaking cool and like Yeah, it would be pretty funny if you got like a homemade barcode creator thing It's like individually barcoded all of your different vegetables Well, I even actually like I like I thought of that because one of the things that I wanted to do as an inventory system Here I talked to you about this very briefly because we got a lot of like random Graphics cards and stuff arriving some of it has to go back some of it doesn't have to go back It's hard to keep track of what anything is or how much it's worth or what we're supposed to do with it So I was like, okay Well, we should just have like a tablet with a barcode scanner like at the door And then when stuff arrives, we could just scan it into inventory put it in an approximate value from the invoice And then at least we can we can track things but This Intel thing looks much more sophisticated and I think There's a few there's a few different ways that this could improve our lives So number one that comes to mind immediately, of course is the recipe match number two is Replenishment so with Amazon rolling out things like grocery delivery You could just basically have you know, it could be like Google now Not only tracks when you need to go to work and how to get there and how long it's gonna take but tracks when you need to go to work And how long it's gonna take but tracks what you might be in the mood to eat based on your you know Circadian rhythms or whatever the season and you know, hey, it's October. Would you like some pumpkin pie and You know that it'll just order from Amazon what you might like to eat You can obviously manually override it if you want and then it just shows up you put it in your fridge your fridge Tells you what to cook. I mean, are we gonna get to the point where we don't even have to think anymore It would probably work pretty well from a nutrition and diet management standpoint because I knew somebody that lived in Seattle when they had the home grocery delivery service and that was amazing like that was like I stayed with them for a month or so while I was out there and It was the most incredible thing ever I mean you get weekly fresh groceries fresh vegetables all delivered right to your door And it's like why if you combine that with you know nutrition management and something else and it's all handled by an application You don't have to think anymore Which you know what I mean When we say that it sounds like kind of a dirty word, you know You don't have to think anymore like I've criticized Luke here for not being able to find his way to work After working there for well over six months because But I bussed there the whole time Sometimes because I barely ever drove there You were driving for a while and you still didn't know how to get there A month which was like four times Whatever so what do you there's like four turns, okay? So what he would do is he would just key it into Google Maps And then he would follow it and then he wouldn't think and in this like I kind of would tease him I go well You know traffic roading it would give me a different route every time based on traffic So old guys like me had to listen to the radio and had to actually know how to get places whereas I had a conversation with someone who disagreed with me very strongly That at some point kids aren't even gonna know how to drive or how to get anywhere because it'll always be done for them But nutrition is something where I really don't think there's anything wrong It's like phone numbers. It's like what is the benefit of storing phone numbers in your head? Other than 911 I don't think we really need phone numbers in our heads Yeah or if your phone dies or something but even then But I have like two or three that if I'm ever in trouble it would be fine I don't need to know all of them But nutrition is something that is so essential and is so complicated that people and people don't really understand Like you'd be able to do things like your smart fridge could detect on Facebook that you said you're gonna have a baby And all of a sudden it could take papaya out of your regular shipments Because pregnant women shouldn't eat papaya which is a totally unintuitive thing How cool is that? I like that a lot I mean smart applications I think there's a lot to the future in that I knew one of the guys that worked on the residential version of the turbo chef And that it's been out for many years now probably four or five years But there's an app that's built into the home turbo chef This is like a $5,000 home oven But it can cook things immediately and it makes it really easy to cook things like chicken and duck and lamb and things like that Without having to do a lot of preparation with fresh ingredients And I could see sort of the technology there with this oven combined with something like this fridge I mean it's a really interesting technology and you end up you know sort of having a better life experience Because you know you're doing good home cooking and things like that But it will improve the quality of life And you know what I don't mind cooking I find one of the most crappy things about home cooked meals is coming up with what you want to eat And then shopping for it and then all of a sudden we've taken the tediousness Tedium I guess would be the correct word out of that And all you have to do is prepare food which really isn't even that time consuming And is so much less expensive and so much better for you It would just be an automatic improvement for me because I just go to Costco I live by myself I just go to Costco and buy like little troughs of chicken breast And then just like something like a huge thing of romaine lettuce And I'm like okay I'm eating chicken and lettuce Chicken and salad for like a week and a half at least You could even mix it up and have a chicken salad Oh exactly that's basically where the end of my creativity is Because I'm like I'm going to save money and that's the only thing that I really end up I mean the other thing many people don't understand very well And it's not a criticism of them it's just it's kind of complicated Is how long food is good for So when you add the food when you start having you know codes or chips inside the packaging Or whatever else the case may be that the smart fridge can be aware of You put some beef in there and your smart fridge can send you a text message Be like yo you haven't cooked this yet you've got probably about six hours to pop it in the freezer Before that's just not going to be good for anything anymore We could be looking at a lot of health benefits from a food spoiling perspective as well Which I think is as cool You know I think when the iPad first came out about six months or a year after Apps Epicurious and I think apps like Epicurious Which is like sort of an interactive recipe program I think those were some of the top sellers in the app store because people were using them in the kitchen So it was a sort of totally unexpected serendipity from sort of having ubiquitous easy tablet computing It's actually one of the first apps I got for my smartphone when I got it I don't remember if it was actually Epicurious but it was one of the ones that is like Oh I have all of these different things what can I have for dinner tonight Because it actually helped like I knew what I could make with that But I would take this app and it would spit out something that I wouldn't have thought of Without it even knowing what it was and it was just a different way of making it It was really interesting to discover a few recipes that way So let's have some discussion about AMD which is going to be an uncommon theme on today's show Which is of course total BS So let's talk mantle here I just want to go through some tweets for the audience real quick here So that they're kind of up to speed so these are some tweets from James Pryor Who I actually know he's in charge of APU marketing right now He seems like a pretty good guy I've had a couple calls with him So here are some tweets from Ryan Trout again who will be our guest next week and James Pryor So Ryan says you know this could completely change the landscape for MultiCore Which has been a sore spot for gamers, game developers, CPU makers who can't scale frequency anymore They need to scale cores to keep the actual power consumption and heat output of these chips down And yet gaming which really has driven performance in some ways particularly on the consumer desktop For a long time it's just not able to leverage this stuff So Ryan basically goes okay yeah this is going to completely change the game Because all of a sudden an FX8350 is just as fast as a Core i7 4770K That is a head explosion moment because a 4770K is a lot faster than an FX8350 in gaming right now James also says with mantle they underclocked an FX8350 to 2 GHz So we're talking about a frequency that is about 60% of what that can actually run at And the game was still GPU bound on an R9 290X there was no loss in frame rate So CPU performance and the funny thing about this is AMD is also sort of a CPU company Is moving towards irrelevance I mean I guess it's great because AMD is also a GPU company And it's funny how many people talked about how the ATI acquisition was going to sink AMD And AMD was like no no it's our future trust us Well I'm just glad they lasted long enough to show us what's going on now So there's a couple other things a frame with mantle has a lot of unused CPU time There's not a driver hole at all that's awesome And then this is a comment from Oxide who's developing an engine that is going to be more geared towards RTS Where they're saying they can make RTS games GPU bound for the first time in pretty much forever And they've only had a few months so they basically haven't had time to optimize it But they figure it's about two man months worth of development time to get mantle into games So why don't you give us your thoughts on this whole mantle and multi-threaded computing optimization thing that's finally happening Okay so I looked at the presentation I haven't had time to go through it really in depth Because you know at the outset it seems like they're trying to get blood from a turnip Because things have really been well optimized in these games for a long time So it's like architecturally what are they doing different I don't understand Well in the AMD mantle video at 1639 they explain it and it starts to make sense One of the major things that they do is sort of take out Well DirectX isn't part of the equation but you know is DirectX really that terrible Well part of the problem is that DirectX is a little bit monolithic And you know when you're adding shaders and things like that it goes through a bottleneck where all those things that are happening in parallel have to be synchronized But with the mantle architecture at 1639 in that video it's showing that they're sort of developing independent queues That can live and exist in different memory space and on different cores on the GPU And so it becomes much less CPU bound at that point and everything can run in parallel and that sounds really promising So instead of I mean so to give the viewers some context In the early days when we were first getting dual core processors and we were all really excited about it It was kind of like oh well now we can run like the in-game AI on one processor And then we can use the other one just to power the graphic experience And then what we realized when we started getting 3 core and 4 core and 6 core processors is that Okay so now we've got like AI here and physics here or on the GPU depending on if you ask AMD or Nvidia about that And then we've also got the actual gaming experience here So without the ability to parallelize the actual GPU rendering, the actual rendering of the scene We were stuck for a really long time and it looks like Mantle is just according to AMD's claims going to just flat out fix that Now they're finally talking numbers although we had heard rumors earlier of around these numbers But they're talking about 20 to 50% performance improvements on cards that are a couple years old with AMD Mantle enabled games How exciting is that from a consumer standpoint? I think that it's going to sort of open up a whole new world It makes sense with their strategy because the APU has clearly gotten a lot more attention from AMD, R&D and stuff like that And it's really kind of disappointing on the desktop processor side of the world because it's like hey there's still room to innovate on the desktop side I mean let's work on power consumption or something But when you look at it this way it's like architecturally they may be on to something here Because this means they're going to be able to do more with less and that's where they're going to cut their power And that's where they're going to get their efficiency Absolutely, I mean one thing there were rumors circulating for a while about a 6 core Yeah and that's exactly that tweet about downclocking the chip to 2 GHz It's like okay how much power consumption does an 8350 at 2 GHz have? I mean we don't know, I don't think anyone ever tried it because it just didn't perform well enough to try to run it at such a low frequency and do anything with it But that's absolutely game changing I mean to put this in perspective for the viewers again We're talking 20-50% performance improvement puts an R9 270 Which is about a 17999 graphics card So mainstream performance puts that in the same performance weight class as an R9 280X Which is a 300 plus dollar graphics card And not that long ago was a 400-500 dollar graphics card last gen That is absolutely game changing And what can Nvidia do to address this? Well you know this is an open platform and so Nvidia can sort of adopt the model here I think you know I don't have any real, I don't have any friends that are like really really inside the game sector I know some people that develop indie games and they always complain about how terrible DirectX is But how, the problem with OpenGL is that it's not like it's standardized across platforms but it's not the same across platforms And so something that might work great in one situation doesn't work at all in another situation At least you don't have that with DirectX Mantle is an opportunity for AMD to bring that to not just the Windows platform but probably also Mac and Linux And I'm really hoping that the Linux thing takes off Me too, I mean I don't know if you saw this but did you see Microsoft sort of Hey we're sorry about the whole PC gaming thing and how we completely crap the bed on that We're gonna support it better, we're gonna start by eliminating games for Windows Live Which I think was met by uproarious you know hurrays and all of that kind of stuff But is it just too little too late? I mean they had an opportunity really for the last five years to get their crap together You know what? Give the PC your Halo game, come on you guys Is it too late? Yeah I mean I think the biggest problem with DirectX is the way that the shaders are handled That's apparently one of the big bottlenecks and one of the things about the sort of Qs implementation I guess is what they call it in the video is that it lets those things sort of live on their own So right now if you think of it, the GPU, you're giving a whole bunch of tasks to the GPU that are well suited for the GPU And you have you know like Soldier AI and things like that running on the CPU And then at the middle of this mess is DirectX and DirectX is trying to synchronize all those things And you know with Mantle it's like hey we can do this this way and this that way and you can yeah It makes a lot of sense and it puts stuff in the hands of the developers But it makes sense that the hardware people are providing it And so if Microsoft plays nice and provides a low enough level hardware interface that they don't have to like hack the Windows kernel That's what Microsoft needs to do because their expertise is not here They need to step aside and let the experts do what they need to do and give them what they need at an operating system level And that's the best thing they could do for this And at the same time I actually don't necessarily think it's too little too late because of what Wendell just said And because even though Linux is being much more openly adopted now it's still that scary word I love Linux but a lot of people are just scared of it don't want to try it and the second they sit down in front of them Even though it's not sitting in command console at first or terminal Yeah, I totally don't see this going to desktop Linux right away I think it'll be on the Steam box or something like that and then it'll sort of leak from the Steam box onto Linux desktop I don't think it'll be there overnight But that's exactly it I don't think it'll be overnight either but this is what I mean this is what I see happening What I see happening is this opening the door Now okay to be clear when Mantle was first talked about this is again this is more for the viewers benefit It wasn't very clear what what exactly it was AMD gave some details But they were I think they were waiting for this event to really talk about it And so there was a there were a lot of rumors it was open to Nvidia it wasn't open to Nvidia It was running on the PlayStation 4 it was running on Xbox Oh, no, it was it's not running on those and it really wasn't clear. It'll work on Linux or you know I think that one's been pretty clear from the start But what we're finding out now and this was again revealed at the event where Johan Anderson Who is lice Dyson lices Dyson's lead like Dyson's lead technical? I think it was a future whatever something has a complicated title But basically he's leading future development for the frostbite engine series where he basically said okay? Yeah, it's not the same But the mantle code for battlefield 4 looks a lot closer to the ps4 code than it looks to the direct X code So if a game developer I mean one of the things we've talked about on the show before is that guys like indie game devs if they were going to pick one Then they might pick direct X But all of a sudden that could change if I lot of indie game devs are developing for console first right so if they could do it relatively easily This could be a total game changer, and then they could add support for Linux They could add support for Windows and all of a sudden. I mean indie guys love Linux Yeah, well they love adopting it because then you get that huge horde of people that will support you Yeah, and they're very outspoken and we'll talk about it a lot in your game gets a lot of traction So the other thing that I noticed though was the I don't remember their name, but those guys making the engine Oxide oxide we're saying that it takes about they said it takes almost not a lot of work two months of man hours Yeah, so if you have even two devs you could do it in a month, and you can do it like how like how nice is doing it I have no problem with that release the game and then follow up with mantle support sure Especially for a game that's a multiplayer oriented game where we're not talking a single player campaign that you're going to play through in a week And then you're going to put the game on the shelf. I mean not I mean do people still buy physical games I mean put it away in your steam library As long as it's not something like that then yeah, I have no problem with that As long as mantle is well supported not only cross platform, but also Cross device and that's where you know Nvidia is going to be at a disadvantage implementing this and I hope that that doesn't Impede its adoption, but at the same time you know you got to look at Microsoft Microsoft does have a console and they do have a desktop and and you know if you think back to the Xbox one That was just a PC It seems like they could have learned these lessons like ten years ago and incorporated it into the Windows OS and one wonders why they didn't I mean this is a This is this is a very this is a very confusing thing to me, and I mean my whole my outburst about Halo Is is sort of a microcosm of that I think where Microsoft had this opportunity to be everything to everyone for gaming They really did I mean when PCs got more powerful Why didn't Microsoft just give us an Xbox first gen emulator and let us buy Xbox games and run them on our PCs? Really guys why not you could have done it I thought that's where they were headed with the Xbox 360 and then all of a sudden they put you know power PC They put a Mac processor in the Xbox 360 isn't that right isn't it a power PC yeah, it's an IBM power PC I think it's like a three core some weird thing I and I saw that and I went what you guys were so close to just being Dominant here who could have stopped you at that point and then and then if they owned the desktop and they owned the notebook And they owned the game console then how much more compelling is something like their mobile platform if all of a sudden I can get this back library And the the wind tell Alliance can continue and Intel can get into mobile because all of a sudden They're the ones powering the platform that gamers and enthusiasts want to use how close were they to having that happen How myopic was their view that allowed this to occur what happened here, but they are back to PC I guess now again with the x86 architecture one wonders what that has like what they've got up their sleeve for The DirectX infrastructure or what the developer kits look like on on Xbox one Yeah, yeah, I mean there. It's not like they're down for the count. It's not like they're out of money I think I saw something not that long ago that says there their revenue from Android alone is something like two billion a year So so they got plenty of money to fix this All right, so speaking of cross platform This is something that for me personally is really exciting and that is streaming from larger devices to smaller devices in the home Now Nvidia shield is something that was met with I think a very mixed reaction And I think that's being very generous people for the most part said oh, it's too expensive, and it's stupid Why would I even want to play my games on this handheld thing when I could be sitting at my PC? And I think the problem is that Nvidia is trying to approach the the the traditional PC gamer with this And I think they haven't had much luck Communicating to console gamers because there's for whatever reason that weird divide between glorious PC gaming Master Race And the console peasants as the PC guys like to refer to them You know we can all blame zero punctuation for this but PlayStation 4 is adding a feature that shield was first to market with and Nvidia calls it game stream Where you can stream from your PS4 to a PS Vita and play PS4 games on the Vita with of course PlayStation 4 graphical fidelity. What are your thoughts on this? We actually saw it demoed There was a video that came out. I think it was today or yesterday that was showing that the latency is actually very low It's really interesting that this sort of technology I mean you look at the latency of the transport mechanism you know wired versus wireless And I think with the with the PS4 didn't they mention that the 1080p streams have to be wired Oh, you mean with the shield? Yeah, yeah Yes shield has to use a wired USB 2 to gigabit Ethernet adapter so you can tell they need more than a hundred megabit sustained But less than a full gigabit because obviously it's going over USB 2 in order to achieve 1080p streaming Okay, so the way to think about this and this is just sort of back of the envelope There's some different approaches here if you're gonna stream you can do it progressive or you can do it block based If you're doing sort of a progressive stream as soon as the data comes in you send it out again When you do that you can't really do any compression you can't compress that means you're gonna have a lot of data You're gonna need a really high-speed connection That's not good news for a wireless connection because wireless connections can't handle as much data as a wired connection If you're gonna send it in chunks it becomes how fast you can encode each chunk of data So like let's let's say hypothetically you've got something running at 10 frames per second Well, why 10 frames per second because it makes the math easy. So 10 frames per second is about a hundred milliseconds per frame And if your chunk size is one frame it gets a frame in it has to convert it that takes a hundred milliseconds You've added a hundred milliseconds of latency So even if you have something that runs at 60 frames per second You're adding one sixtieth of second a second of latency to encode that and and send it down the wire Even if it can run at 60 frames a second So you need something absurdly fast if you're gonna compress it and do something with it that can you know If you only want to add one millisecond of latency it has to run at a thousand frames per second It has to be able to process a frame in a millisecond Right because that's the delay that it adds now to be clear for the viewers Wendell is not talking about FPS like frames per second in terms of GPU processing. He's talking about it in terms of encoding performance So that is taking the larger image and compressing it and packing it into something that is much less data-intensive So the way that we measure that is also in frames per second. So just just so that's clear for everyone. So sorry Wendell keep going No, yeah, no, that's that's exactly right because um You get into a situation where you just physically the thing physically can't keep up and you know people you know Pro gamers say that they can feel you know, five ten milliseconds I don't think any human being can really feel the difference much less than about 20 or 25 milliseconds But 20 or 25 milliseconds, I mean you can get a lot of those time slots in a one second period And so it sounds like that the shield and the ps4 maybe you're using different kinds of technology And so I think it's gonna yield a different consumer experience very interesting I mean we know that the reason Nvidia is only allowing game stream on Kepler GPUs with their hardware based encoder Is that they have dedicated hardware on the graphics card that is handling this in order to keep the latencies low enough So whatever Sony has done probably isn't that so I think you're right It's very fair to say that they're using a completely different implementation One other thing one other real problem I have with Sony's implementation regardless of how they're doing the encoding Is that the ps4 only uses 2.4 gigahertz that is single band wireless end Which means that as much as this demo might work on you know in a keynote Or the demo might work in a reviewers office where there's one other Wi-Fi network Wait till someone turns a microwave on Wait till someone turns a microwave on Wait till someone yeah exactly you bring your you bring your Vita into the kitchen to like you know microwave your pizza pop And you want to play a game while you wait yeah good luck with that And then wait till someone in an apartment buys a ps4 and a Vita and there's a hundred wireless hot spots within range This is just plain old not gonna work Yeah it's the wireless situation is gonna be really bad even if you even if everything is ideal If you have two devices going at the same time all of unless your wireless access point is really high-end commercial access point that has multiple radios Almost all the the access points out there have trouble sending and receiving multiple streams That's why I like the you know triple antenna receiver blah blah blah was sort of in vogue a couple years ago And it's still around with like the dual band 2.4 and 5 gigahertz that kind of thing mitigates the problem But the 2.4 only even if you get two devices they're gonna be competing with one another And it's like the hardware implementations of dealing with that competition is only just dirty dirty hacks And it doesn't really work and for something like streaming. It's you can't even watch Netflix Yep, no you're you're absolutely absolutely right. I mean Nvidia just plain old says nope You don't have you don't have a 5 gigahertz wireless connection, so we're just not even did you press it and it just says nope They just say look you need this router deal with it whereas Sony I think by allowing Quote-unquote better compatibility is actually going to be hurting the end user experience Yeah, they would have to have a component like a like a hardware H264 encoder or something in hardware That can run at like a hundred a hundred and fifty frames per second just to make that come out And that's probably not an inexpensive piece of hardware Yeah, so I mean you know some thought some thoughts there now Okay, what we also did just for just for fun is we did a bit of a cost showdown here So maybe I'll let you talk about this loop because you worked on it Okay, so we compared a few things so a PS Vita I looked I looked on new eggs So we had more rounded out numbers so this assumes you don't own a Vita because as far as I've never actually seen one In someone's hands, so there PS Vita is about 200 bucks and a shield is about 300 bucks on their own so you've got that But then you need the other hardware to run them so I looked into it and said okay a PS4 is about 399 So with the PS Vita it's about 599 as a combo because I looked around and didn't see any combos for that And we may see bundles we may see bundles so bundles will change the landscape somewhat so okay go ahead And then shield is about 299 as we know but if you buy it with a graphics card so let's say a 770 You can get a GTX 770 a shield Batman Arkham Origins Splinter Cell Blacklist and Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag so you're getting three games All for 549 and if you wanted to buy so that's that's 599 for a PS4 and a Vita Or 549 for a 770 a shield three games and if you wanted those three games with the PlayStation it would be around $750 So that's pretty compelling looking expensive PC gaming is starting to look like it makes a whole lot of sense and If we see Nvidia support something like Mantle I mean Nvidia's future even more than we saw already Maybe in solutions and their mobile processors even more than we already knew because if they go and support Mantle With this we could be looking at a situation where you can take a crap CPU your old machine you can buy a graphics card You can get a shield or some other mobile platform from Nvidia that supports this technology and have a great gaming experience That's really competitive with the price and performance of a console and just makes well actually makes consoles performance just look stupid Can I get a shout out to the PC master race I know right well just the thing of it is I've been using shield pretty extensively lately I don't find much time to game I don't find much time when I'm sitting at my computer I'm usually uploading videos or something or like researching topics for the land show It's hard for me to be at my computer and just play a game whereas I got an Nvidia shield and I've actually almost finished Batman Arkham City In the last couple weeks I'm actually fine because I can I can play with it in bed it works amazingly well You need a beast router you really do even my EA4200 just choked on it I needed to get an ASUS RTN66U which is like super two thumbs up for that router But it is an amazing experience and people need to need to get it like we had a new camera guy that just started he's an intern And he was he was filming I was talking about these Bluetooth MOGA power controllers that give your your your battery life a bit of a boost on your phone And they clip to your phone so you can play Android games and it's like $80 for the high-end one and I and I showed him a shield he's like what's that thing I'm like oh well it's like got a genuinely console grade controller it plays your Android games and you can stream games from your computer and play them on here And he's like whoa really Nvidia is just so terrible at marketing to mainstream they just have no idea that this exists I think that when the Steam box takes off you're going to see a lot more peripherals like that and I think that it's going to get a lot more it's going to get a lot more visibility But the problem I guess that probably Steam has right now is that you've got Nvidia that has a lot of these really cool innovative things But they're kind of expensive which is not good for an appliance from an appliance standpoint and you have AMD who's sort of bringing the rain with very inexpensive hardware on both CPU and GPU side that can really bring it home which is going to be much better suited for a console like PC appliance Yep that's very very true so you know whether I mean ok so Nvidia's benefit so if we're going to go pros and cons list Nvidia is going to have Game Stream and then AMD by proxy so through Steam OS is going to have the console mode of Game Stream Which shield also supports if you get a weird adapter and whatever whatever whatever So it's going to be basically do I want to pay more to have the mobile experience on top of the couch experience or do I want the value optimized solution that spanks the consoles in terms of performance And you know in terms of having all these indie games in this huge game library but doesn't support mobile At the same time someone could make an open platform style of a shield so a really really similar product that's still running Android but then isn't tied down to a GPU But then Nvidia's strength a lot of the time is in their proprietariness for better or for worse it's the fact that I mean we were joking about this earlier As much as this stream is going to be once Wendel leaves we have a bunch more AMD stuff where we're going to be like rah rah rah AMD Stuff like Raptor is not competitive with stuff like GeForce experience stuff like AMD's implementation of stereoscopic 3D And we can talk all day about whether stereoscopic 3D matters or not and I think we're going to all come to the same conclusion that no one cares But it wasn't competitive with 3D vision Nvidia's great at delivering a great experience within their closed ecosystem But then open platforms can sometimes have that shining jewel in the dust there can usually not usually there can sometimes be the open platform that is better than the proprietary platform And if you make something like that it is possible that some big group will step behind it like maybe Splashtop they could maybe be the backend So there's a company behind it that could push it forward and it could still make it some of AMD stuff that's open platform is still very strong You know it's interesting you mentioned Splashtop because I have an iPad and on the iPad I have Splashtop and I've experimented with it And on newer iPads it is actually disturbingly fast but when I'm on an access point it's only 2.4 GHz It is a completely different experience than when it's on 5 GHz I think we can sorry go ahead People would have to have the right hardware implementations all around to make it work and if Splashtop made some very optimized application sources for running games It could maybe be better and they could have it in gaming mode or something so it works that way better Something in the future but for an open platform to work like that there would need to be some big backer I think the networking guys have to be licking their chops right now Because all this technology is going to rely on people to finally go and upgrade their wireless G routers Because up till now web browsing, why? You know there is a piece of wireless technology that I have actually been impressed with and it's mundane and I think you'll be surprised But it's the Dell wireless dock for their latitudes It's like some sort of high frequency it's like 8 GHz or something special And I'm used to a good docking solution but it's got a range of like 6 feet Literally if it's more than 6 feet away from the dock it doesn't work But it can deliver on the docking station I've got 3 1920x1200 monitor outputs and USB 3 and all these really high speed peripherals And it sort of freaks me out that I don't have to plug the laptop into anything and that's a nice technology That's pretty awesome actually But the range is terrible You know what? Samsung had something similar with their central station I don't think they were using high frequency they were using a proprietary USB 3 of some sort I did a video about it a long time ago I can't remember how it worked because it was prohibitively expensive But it was a very very similar concept where the idea was that you just brought your PC within range And then it had a dongle that you had to plug into the PC it was USB based because Whereas Dell I guess can just build this functionality into their laptops But when you brought it in range you were able to wirelessly transmit all the signaling for your peripherals and ethernet and display From the laptop to the display where it would act as a hub that you could plug everything into So this kind of stuff is very very much the future I'm excited about wireless I've hated wireless for a long time but wireless AC even actually addresses a lot of my issues with it Have you played around with AC much? Yeah at home I've got a Cisco commercial grade wireless AC access point Of course you do Yeah I don't want to fool around Wow that's awesome What are one of those Runya? Well if you get them retail they're about a thousand bucks but if you know a guy you can get them for about three hundred Alright you've actually peaked my interest with that three hundred dollar price point Yeah well it turns out if you want to paint the neighborhood with the signal that's what you need Alrighty then fascinating Okay well you know what I think that was pretty much it for the topics that we had lined up I would love for you guys let Logan give Logan a big thank you So I think it's at TechSyndicate on Twitter for allowing us to have some of Wendell's time I know that you guys are an awesome tag team over there and we've had Logan on the show before It's been a total pleasure to have you you've been requested so much So I want to thank your team collectively both Logan and you for being generous enough to lend us some of your time And some of your expertise this has been absolutely fantastic Oh no problem anytime anytime it's all good I'll let him know that I'm being returned in slightly used condition but it's okay We haven't abused you too much here have we No no it's all good Twitch chat tell Wendell he's great okay you know we don't want to beat him up over here Yeah everyone says come back come back we can't live without you yeah they love you so thank you very much man Remember guys you can watch Wendell over on the TechSyndicate YouTube channel which is youtube.com Slash raise the world with that O being a zero which I've teased him about endlessly I was like dude what were you thinking but now it's too late so there you go he's stuck with it So I'll talk to you soon man take care thanks alright take care Alright so let's move oh our sponsor break I remembered for a change oh what do I do just close it close it got it alright sponsor breaks time So guys our sponsor for this show is generously Hotspot Shield the easy VPN solution that you can get 20% off of their Elite prices by using offer code Linus it apparently is a little bit complicated to use offer code Linus so Guys in the video description I will post a link to the forum thread where I will post instructions for how to take advantage of it I've actually been using Hotspot Shield I had to use it to order Google Glass in fact No no don't worry it's shipped okay yeah It's like wait until it's shipped yeah no no don't worry it's a done deal so because Google Glass Explorer Edition is only available to US residents What happens is I had to get an invite which Marcus Brownlee was generous enough to get over to me Then I had to use a VPN to even go to the link that was in my invite then I had to get Austin Evans Austin not Duncan on Twitter okay I had to get Austin Evans to generously let me use his credit card Oh okay because I had to have a US based credit card then okay get this get this okay I had to have it shipped to my old OCZ sales rep okay back from when I you worked at NCIX Okay because I'm going to her wedding okay so I had to get it shipped there and then I'm gonna go pick it up next week So anyway Hotspot Shield allowed me to coordinate all of this by actually confirming the link and being logged into my account And spoofing that I was based out of the US by using a US based Hotspot Shield address So Hotspot Shield allows you to fake where you're from get around geographical restrictions Also we necessarily recommend doing those things in most situations And protect your privacy online making it much more difficult for anyone who's trying to to find out who you are and where you're from And so there's all kinds of crazy stuff you can do with VPNs or you can just use it to get US Netflix Which is I think what a lot of people do so guys one more time thanks to Hotspot Shield for providing our VPN solution here As well as for sponsoring the show and giving us 20% off to offer to you guys when you're using offer code minus And not that we necessarily recommend cheating the system to get US Netflix either We're just observing that many of you might do that I saw it posted about on the forum or something So Squarespace isn't a sponsor today but I do actually want to point out something So guys last week we announced that Squarespace was doing a design your own win your own website thing So all you got to do is sign up for the trial at spiritsquarespace.com and then submit it to me with hashtag oh crap What was the hashtag? Okay go back to last week's WAN Show and check out the hashtag If you tweet it with that hashtag then you will have a chance I'm going to announce sometime this week the winner So you will win your website for a year they handle all the hosting and all that So I just wanted to remind you guys about that So one thing before you start going when I was reading off the games whenever I read SC my brain stops I know I know will not go past I was even thinking it when I typed it I was thinking it when I typed it I was like I'm gonna think of Starcraft and it's SCB so it's like Starcraft Reborn Yeah and then there's BAO and I'm like black something Yeah What? No okay so yeah sorry about that I was so lost I knew what they were too but I was just reading those acronyms and my head just completely froze Yeah SC2 also Supreme Commander 2 Yeah Which I never got because I was always thinking Starcraft Yeah man okay anyways So yeah so anyway we're gonna have Google Glass so that's a thing That's gonna be really cool I can't believe And my Kindle my new gen Kindle Paperweight arrived today Do you remember how long ago I ordered that stupid thing? A month at least And I was like yeah I want to do an unboxing while it's still relevant Pfffff Yeah it was like 6 weeks it's like ridiculous It's like thanks for that Amazon They shipped the cover for it Back when I ordered it I don't even know where it is anymore I haven't seen it in a long time Me neither It's probably under a pile of things Ridiculous anyway I love Amazon a lot but some things I don't love So let's just move on to our next topic here which is Ah yes more AMD news Of course AMD has updated the Never Settle Forever program In a super confusing way Because back when Never Settle came out it was like Look this is great Buy all the graphics cards get all the games You'll love it And we did We did Boy did we ever love it Oh definitely Oh we loved it Mmmmm Okay so now it is about the most confusing chart that I've ever seen in my life Which you know I've seen a lot of confusing charts in my life Oh wait before we keep going we should do a Twitter blitz after this or something Yeah okay so guys Twitter blitz something We didn't end up having time because Wendell was an amazing guest And we wanted to talk to him about all the things So we didn't end up getting to do a Twitter blitz with him But let's just do like random Q&A Hit us Alright So first of all there's this graphic Which is like okay what So R9 270 and up to R9 290X has Battlefield 4 with a checkbox Maybe Maybe Which is confusing because AMD is providing codes to retailers Maybe Maybe Depending on the quali- to qualifying retailers And the retailers will at their discretion Bundle this game with their cards Maybe Maybe While supplies last Maybe Maybe So basically unless you have verified that the retail you're buying from is providing that game with that card Nothing is guaranteed Okay Then R7 260X so the only one out of the new generation cards to be added to Never Settle Forever officially Even though some retailers have been doing Never Settle Forever on new gen cards such as NCIX Which is why I got confused and was saying that it was on it because NCIX was shipping them anyway So that has been added to the silver Never Settle Forever Which means you get two games Okay So hold on a second It's not over yet folks So I don't even know what this is I'm using this stupid Metro Internet Explorer so I don't even- I don't know what I'm doing right now So let's go ahead and open this again Oh this is a- Yeah It looks so chrome-like now Really annoying Yeah I'm- I'm not happy Okay so there's that So the Never Settle Forever has also been altered Okay so let's scroll down and let's open up this graph So this is from Videocards.com just so that we make sure we're crediting the source Because I didn't make these graphs Mind you I don't think they necessarily made all of these Alright So they have added Thief to Never Settle Forever but only in the silver and gold tiers I mean talk about tier full Not the 200 tier or whatever Not the bronze tier So you can pick in the bronze tier one game out of the list of qualifying games which is not BF- So BF4 is only on R9200 series not available in Never Settle Forever Doesn't include Tomb Raider Doesn't include Thief Okay but you can pick one of any of these Then in the silver tier you can pick two of any of these but not Tomb Raider Okay not Tomb Raider not BF4 And in the gold tier you can pick three of any of them except not BF4 So AMD we love you Thank you for giving us all the games Your naming conventions and your little weird naming schemes and category things is not really working out They asked me to settle They asked me to settle for one game or two You know what got me too is we were talking about the R9, R7 thing a bunch And how certain ones should probably be moved into categories and stuff Why isn't R7 260X in the same category as an R7 240? Exactly I agree with you 100% What the hell? I mean we love you AMD the graphics cards are great we just wish you'd call them something else And the other thing too is the whole Never Settle and we're better at Game Bundles thing Feels a little bit hollow When Nvidia is doing their holiday promotion which is Beast is all hell Yeah Assassin's Creed Black Flag, Splinter Cell Blacklist, Blacklight, Blacklist Blacklist And then Batman Arkham Origins on the higher tier card so you're getting two to three games So for 290X versus 780 hold on a minute you might get Battlefield 4 Or you will get these three games that are also compelling and you will get $100 off of a shield Which is also a compelling experience So it's like meh now we're settling But then Mantle But then Mantle 20 to 50% more performance potentially But then maybe Mantle's on Nvidia But then Power Consumption and Noise But then maybe Nvidia's gonna And then what if you want G-Sync? It's a great time to buy a graphics card Or PhysX Because it's hard to make a wrong decision because they're just all gonna be awesome Yeah pretty much Alright so this is something that's actually gonna be a bit of a quick topic here But speaking of Microsoft, we actually talked about their stupid publicity stunt Where they put a giant Xbox One in a parking lot in Vancouver Here's another one Oh my god, you piece of garbage Okay so they're putting an Xbox One in New Zealand So whoever gets this Xbox One, the lucky winner, will get to be I'm just gonna turn the volume off because I have no idea how loud it is Quick, quick Sorry in advance How is this not working? How is this not working? There you go Anyway, I don't even have to play it We'll find the sharks Because I want sharks with freaking laser beams attached to their heads How complicated is this? So the first person in the world to get an Xbox One will be someone in New Zealand who wins this one That they're actually putting into a shark tank But it has something like 20 sharks in it So it's like not a trivial number of sharks I think that's really all there is to say about it Yeah it's I mean other than all the press who have them Yeah Even in the video they're like oh well we don't know who's gonna go get it I'm assuming it's gonna be the same divers that went down to put it in But it was just kind of funny Yeah I mean that's it'd be You know what a liability problem that would be if someone actually like went in there and tried to get it and died It'd be pretty epic And if there was anywhere where that would happen it would be down under I mean I think Australians and New Zealanders would be the first to admit that I know but just last week attacking the sheep and then now calling them crazy Well I love those guys Okay think about it this way you guys The time slot that we have for the WAN show Have we not demonstrated we love you? I think Australia and New Zealand actually have the best time slot for the WAN show Our own time zone Time zone Our own time zone gets the bone It's terrible because it's like starts at 4.30 when everyone's still at work Yeah I know right It's like Timmy, TimmyTechTV was like Hey Linus I can never watch your show anymore It's like I thought we were friends Ben Just like sorry dude Alright so this last topic before the Twitter blitz What is it doing? I don't know Look at what I'm doing I like touch here and I try to scroll and just like change tabs Are you swiping left maybe if it goes No no no I thought that might have been a thing Unbelievable okay So Samsung and Intel find 36 more companies to back Tizen You selected all of this by swiping left and forward Well that's ridiculous Left and right there Oh I hate it Alright so Samsung and Intel find 36 more companies to back Tizen their Android competitor So it's an open based Linux based open based Open source Linux based You know what I should just leave Open source Linux based operating system It's got some interesting backers so the new companies backing it include eBay, Konami, McAfee, Panasonic and the Weather Channel So if I've ever seen a reg tag group of companies to band together and support something And McAfee Which is confusing Which is like Intel again because McAfee is owned by Intel Okay so some of the cool things about it It'll allow developers to work in CSS, HTML5 and JavaScript which is interesting But it's not a security issue Kind of weird yeah Yeah it's like kind of random and seems to open up a lot It'll open up more doors than it closes so to speak Performance has been shown off before And if I had my other laptop I would play this YouTube video for you but They just look at a gallery which uses all the most useless possible things like putting pictures on a cube And then they call someone Okay yes And I know it's like how do you show it off but like dude It's on crappy hardware though so Samsung showed it off on something like a Galaxy S2 And they were doing some cool I mean the cool thing about it was that it was an HTML5 based app as opposed to being I think they both were I think even the calling was So that's really neat Is this going to topple the mighty Google Empire? No One thing that I noticed was with the companies that backed it Sorry to cut you off there No I wasn't talking anymore I just said no I was done One thing I noticed about the companies that are backing it are They're all companies that Google is basically trying to just circumvent and being like Nope this is our own thing like the Weather Channel Google's kind of doing their own thing McAfee they're kind of starting to bundle their own thing Like it's all stuff that Google is trying to get rid of so they're all like Oh maybe we should back this thing over here It is kind of like But it isn't going to work I'm a lot more interested in something like Ubuntu Phone I actually you know what I actually just cleared this with Brandon And I'm going to borrow his Galaxy Nexus Because that happens to be one of the two phones No no I'm going to finish Oh his last one Yeah his old Galaxy Nexus So I'm going to finish my Nexus 5 review And then as long as nothing else arrives I'm going to Man guys Xperia Z1 and Nexus 5 are really making me miss my HTC One I can't wait to get it back I'm actually going to throw Cyanogen Mod on it hopefully As long as I can get everything sufficiently unlocked Because I don't have a Play Store Edition one Oh But I have an early developer one My original one Oh So that might be compatible I don't know Anyway Don't break it So I'm going to ask Brandon to let me borrow his Galaxy Nexus And I'm going to try Ubuntu Phone I'll do like a 30 day look I'll give this a shot You have to remember that it's going to be slow and the battery life is not going to be like good I know And it's not going to be Ubuntu's fault I know but I just want to try it I want to be like okay well look if I want to play Pac-Man can I? Those kinds of things if I want to check the weather can I? So I find that very exciting I mean Ubuntu has the resources And they have the track record of delivering free operating systems For better or for worse and getting support and building a business And the improvements that they've been doing and like the mass consumer usability of Linux that Ubuntu has been spearheading for a while has been really good They claim to be the OS on 10% of new PCs shipping today That's unbelievable Well it's not North America But overall I don't care North America whatever I'm just saying that's why it's probably so unbelievable Yeah that's extremely exciting So let's go ahead and head over to the Twitter boards Someone says get Mubot or any bot in chat we had Mubot it was a big problem Yeah it's a really big problem Yeah about the smart fridge how about implementing RFID tags on products which will hold data like expired date and ingredients Absolutely that would be amazing Huge deal or even like if you Okay think about this if you could like grab apples or something And instead of the traditional twist tie you can bring your own thing of RFID twist ties You tie it up and they have a little programmer there Or you use your phone or something and you just go buying out this today boop Yeah and like anything that's like that you can do with your phone or your own little twist tie or whatever you just brought up And then like milk it could just be programmed into the barcode on the milk like it's And then with a couple of the Amazon thing the day your milk expires some dude could show up with milk and be like yep throw your old milk away Here's new milk Wouldn't that be amazing Zodiac soulmates as Asus just teased the Mars 760 Could it be something about NVIDIA's capital license to other manufacturers? No no I don't think so I think it's just one of those things where these dual GPU cards don't sell particularly well And the engineering that goes into them is unbelievable The cost of it like Asus loses money on every Mars card 100% trust me they do Wouldn't be surprised at all They do I mean the amount of money that it took to even build the stupid heatsink on Aries 2 The amount of revisions they did to even tool that thing like they lost money it's totally money losing proposition Mars 760 is a similar so that's why no one does it we actually have one coming Cool Yeah It's interesting I looked at it it's interesting Have you seen like the concept photos for the No I haven't even seen it Not for this Oh It's faked I'm like 99% sure Oh we have a page 4 black coming too Oh cool that's actually pretty cool But yeah someone leaked concept photos for a dual 290X GPU card Oh yeah And they just like added a fan to a 7990 and it's like super long Hahaha I was like there's no way there's like one case that that could fit in That card would have to be liquid cool like dual rad liquid cool Yeah they had four fans on it Hahaha okay Just upgraded to a 4770K from a Pentium 4 good work Andrew Nice Enjoy that Do you think that smartphones will become the new laptop If wireless standards like what Wendel is talking about with docking stations become a thing and something like Ubuntu phone Maybe Yeah because with Ubuntu phone you dock and it turns into a full OS And if we can have steam running on it all of a sudden we can game on it and more like a desktop experience I think the future is very exciting Yeah What do you think about famous YouTubers like TotalBiscuit disabling YouTube comments I think that it's great that they're trying to send a message to Google and YouTube I think that Google and YouTube probably have some idea that it's a problem at this point One thing that's interesting is Unbox Therapy somehow has the old comment system on his channel And he has a Facebook post the only YouTube channel that still has the old comment system I don't know how he did it but That's awesome I suspect he won't even tell me because he's just like trade secret or something He just like luckily didn't get bumped I don't even know what it is but anyway I think it's important that they're sending a message and that's cool I think YouTube and Google know and they'll do something And for me personally I don't see the difference between disabled comments and spam comments that we can just all not look at I hate the new comment system But the main reason why I hate the new comment system is when you see the top dude it's like 300 comments on his post They can fix it so easily though There's things that they can do and it can be better So let's just give them a chance And I'm not going to hurt my own search rankings to send a message to Google and YouTube that they already know It's not going to change anything Someone said you should disable it and let people talk about it on the forum Okay go talk about it on the forum I would love for you to go talk about it on the forum More interactions on the forum is awesome But the reality of it is is that YouTube comments are and I believe always will be lowest common denominator For people who aren't willing to go and talk about it on the forum You can have a way more intelligent conversation about any of the videos we make on our forum 100% And if you post, if there's a problem with the video like in a very recent video If you post something like that on the forum, I reply to those all the time There's a reply under that one saying like oh this is what's wrong, this is what the change should be No one saw it, no one liked it The forum is the way to interact with us People send me YouTube private messages and I'm like what are you, hi? I get hundreds of them I can't look at all of these whereas when I get private messages on the forum I try to respond to them if there's something to be responded to If it's just like YOLO Swag 420 Linus, I think you're awesome I'll be like yeah okay cool You can be a user on the forum, YOLO Swag 420 Smoket I think Every single time I see him post on anything I'm just like oh my brain Should I expect some sweet deals on NUGEN cards around Christmas this year? I would stay tuned for Black Friday That's where you'll actually get the sweet deals I'm excited, I've heard tons of rumors I don't know if you've heard about this But the 3-in-3 on Black Friday is supposed to be super cheap Huh, that's cool Like actually sensibly purchasable cheap Which heatsink should I get with a Node 605? Noctua has a really nice low profile one that we will be unboxing soon And then installing in Edsel's video editing rig I forget what it's called though, L something Basically find the Noctua low profile one Alright this is my answer, what cooler should I get? Find the Noctua one that fits Noctua did not pay me to say this Although I, no I'm not going to talk about that Linus what do you think of the PS4 red line of death? I think that the rumors of its death have been greatly exaggerated The number that's being thrown around right now is 0.4% Which is within reason Any confirmation on Linus Edition Corsair fans? I have no plans for Corsair fans, Linus Edition fans Would you rather eat a piece of year old garlic bread Or rub sriracha on your face and kiss slick? I've probably eaten year old garlic bread before so I'm going to go with that Hook up a graphics card cooling loop to an AC during winter equals winning You know what, I actually brought the chiller the other day It's here now Do you know anyone who can do metal fabrication? Yes Let's get it done It won't be cheap That's fine, let's get it done Let's make an enclosure I know someone who can make custom cases for us Entire computer cases Okay let's get a case for the chiller The challenge I had before was that I needed appropriate insulation on the tank for the cold side That was the issue I had before But if we could make a case for it, it would be heavy We could put it on wheels though But we need to get it self contained because that's the only reason I don't use it They can cat it for us and everything Okay, let's do it It won't be cheap Okay, are we talking $10,000 not cheap or are we talking $1,000 not cheap? Probably, like the lower one I have no idea though Okay, have you heard the alarm clock that tells you how long you've got left to live? No That's awesome Squarespace Winner website event Hashtag oh crap, yeah I know What are your thoughts of the wallet replacement coin card? Haven't actually seen that Interesting I'm from New Zealand, I bet they hid the Xbox in Auckland It's in the... Yeah, it's not hidden Alright, so back to the show The humble store is up This is pretty cool This is both cool and it seems like sort of a step in a direction that I don't want them to go Yeah Oh yeah Like what the devil is this exactly? Fixed percentage of sales sharing at 10 which is like... So this is... Whatever I... What just happened? What is this thing doing? It's taking inputs and it's not putting them to the right place Well, it should stop that Like... Why don't you just use a real browser? Why am I in that browser now? Where's the other one? I hate this I saw you just open that one I hate my life Well, I don't hate my life, I just hate this Just use a real... You've got it Look, a browser I know, but I have it open here And I'm logged in here Okay, there we go I don't even know what I did Well, you dragged it down to the top Back to Humble Bundle I'm trying to click on the... Okay, so the original Humble Bundle concept Okay, indie games We want to support indie developers You choose a charitable donation Money to give to the indie game dev Or money to give to the Humble Bundle organization That was the original concept, okay? Then we got the Humble Weekly Sale Which is... Whatever it is It's basically an excuse to run two bundles at the same time As far as I can tell And then the Humble Store Which is not bundles It is games that you buy And instead of choosing where the money goes Now it is 10% of the proceeds go to charity, period Have we lost our way a little bit here? One thing about this is we never see big AAA new titles on the Humble Bundle Okay, and this has Splinter Cell Blacklist And this has some bigger games in it A Red Faction Collection Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon for like 10 bucks It's like $5 off Which is like... It's a deal, but it's not that compelling And why am I giving you 10% for this? I mean, basically they're just leveraging the traffic That they got by being good guys And becoming a Steam competitor They're still being good guys Because there's 10% going And I think it would probably be harder to get developers to jump on the store idea So that's probably where it has to go They probably have to have slightly bigger margins Because they probably have the people in the store taking more They can probably promise the developer higher margins this way as well Whereas Humble Bundle is just like, okay, free for all But Humble Bundle has traditionally been either indie Or if it's AAA, it's old Like my understanding is that EA had a lot of the contributions not go to EA As compared to other Humble Bundles I'm not going to say who I heard this from, but I heard it So people were less inclined to give someone like EA money But look, this stuff does in the EA Bundle The only really compelling thing was Battlefield 3 And they were replacing it in like a month or two But that's not the point And they basically gave it away for free now That's not even the point necessarily I mean, the point is that people were willing to pay money for the game They just weren't willing to give it to EA Whereas if EA sells games through Humble Store Then at least they're guaranteed some kind of a cut So I understand the business here It just seems like they aren't what they used to be So let's just be aware of that Which doesn't make Humble Bundles not a great deal It just makes them not what they used to be That's all We have 5,000 live viewers right now Guys, thank you for watching That is amazing You guys are awesome That is all Alright, let's... I want my laptop back I don't know why my DisplayPort output isn't working Okay, anyways, do you want to go on another rant? We'll kick it No, no, no You know what? Actually, my problems with Nexus 5 so far have nothing to do with KitKat I like KitKat Oh, okay Actually, all the things I'm going to bitch about are more to do with other stuff So I have a review coming at the Nexus 5 For those of you who don't follow me on Instagram Which I think is most of you KitKat Android 4.4 has a feature that will allow rooting to basically be disabled Which we've heard before Rooting this is... Rooting's going away Rooting... It may actually be true this time I wanted to talk with Wendell about this Shoot, I meant to move this up to our guest segment Yeah, because he had some really interesting input I have read already that the Nexus 5 is already rooted Right, but this article... So the article on PCMag.com Okay, no, I don't want to sign up for your offers Go away Alright, so there's a picture of an Android made of KitKat bars I need food I am so hungry Like my blood sugar is low And I shouldn't even be on the air right now So what has been built into Android 4.4 KitKat essentially Is the ability for a handset maker to block rooting Now there are security implications here There are reasons why you wouldn't want root access to be available to just about anyone Because rooting has become so easy That it's not even just for power users anymore That really understand the implications of it Like I'm not a power user when it comes to phones And when it comes to digital security Not really I actually rely on him in a big way To support me and help me with these kinds of things Because I know some stuff... I know just enough to be dangerous And that is exactly what phone rooting can be It can be just people who know just enough to be dangerous But don't know enough to know how to protect themselves And I'm not saying rooting should be taken away from the power users I'm just saying that it's a can of worms So what they're going to allow is someone like Samsung Who has been locking down functionality on their phones left and right To basically go look, this phone is not rootable Okay? Now, Google has not opted to make the Nexus 5 unrootable In fact, there was a root for it before it was released And it's apparently phenomenally easy So I think they're doing a couple things here So number one is they're positioning Nexus devices as the clear power user choice Because I think they know that whatever they think about it There's going to be certain handset makers that are going to want to lock this down Number two is they are allowing Android to be potentially more secure On platforms where handset makers feel like they can get away with it And so Samsung So like Samsung I think this is interesting for CineGenmon Yeah They just tried to be like, oh hey everyone We're going to make that way easier implementation We're going to make one click a thing We're going to make all this other kind of stuff And then now Google's like, lol Here's this thing Although they're not putting on Nexus devices, which is kind of cool I'm stoked to try it I'm becoming more and more of a phone guy all the time So this is my first experience with vanilla Android Pure Android experience I'm going to be trying out Ubuntu phone at some point I'm going to try out CineGenmon as soon as I get my HTC One back But I'm excited I'm getting to the point where I can make observations about phones that aren't just stupid Are you leaving? How are we getting all the gear there on Monday? Okay, we'll figure it out We have a shoot on Monday I don't I will be benchmarking games Our next topic is Da da da da AMD to bring Wow So this was posted on the forum by TopwarGamer And the original article is from polygon.com So AMD to release TressFX 2.0 animates grass and fur So now we can have Lara Croft's hair and grass animated by TressFX Wow, you just made that joke Well, I kind of had to Wow So TressFX Oh god I mean, there's good things about it So it's supported on both AMD and Nvidia So that's a thing It's phenomenally performance intensive Oh yeah, huge On low end cars, what kind of performance deltas were you seeing? It almost halved it Not quite, but close On something like a 260x On the R7 240 video you'll notice that it's pretty high settings but with TressFX off So that's a real barrier Mantle may alleviate these issues somewhat and improve the performance of it It's like I thanked everyone for being here and that we had 5,000 viewers And it went all the way down to like 4,700 for a bit there It's like yeah, well, you know, whatever Linus Screw you man Well, actually I think it's just that the stream started late so people are And we're currently at Yeah, we're near 5,000 I'm using the X split number which isn't always up to date Sometimes it's zero I mean the other problem that I have with TressFX, so besides the performance hit Maybe Mantle can alleviate this but it probably won't on Nvidia because even though TressFX works on Nvidia Blah blah blah, they won't have Mantle unless they implement Mantle so it's all up in here right now Is that the game list is a little bit ghost town I mean I criticize PhysX, I do I have criticized PhysX many times in the past not because it isn't great technology It is, it's cool It could have ushered in a new era of gameplay If it hadn't been tied first to a proprietary PCI add-in card And then to one GPU maker But I'm going to criticize TressFX for the same thing right now The game list is Tomb Raider But And Tomb Raider Yeah And I don't even mean Tomb Raider and the old Tomb Raider I mean Tomb Raider 2013 edition and Tomb Raider 2013 edition That's the problem I will be so, I will pray to the gods of gaming if freaking Elder Scrolls 6 comes with TressFX 2.0 Because grass and fur Random In an Elder Scrolls game, TressFX style would be amazing Mods can already make it really cool but adding TressFX to that and then allowing people to mod it Like holy crap Imagine the grass mods that some people have been doing to Skyrim But with TressFX That would kill any system you have for one But for two would look amazing Melt all the GPUs What's cool about Mantle 2 though is we could be looking at a completely different way of interacting with multi GPU systems So you could kind of go yeah, no, this is my TressFX card And this is my this and this is my that And you throw like three different GPUs in your system And I mean we're talking later on down the future But we're just talking about the way that AMD is approaching allowing game developers to spread out resources And leverage them the way that they want to Oh, it's an exciting world We haven't even talked enough about Kaveri We're going to have to talk about it next week I mean heterogeneous system architecture is going to be such a big deal Allowing the CPU and the GPU to access the memory resources they need and share them One thing that I'm super sorry to cut you off a little bit One thing I'm super stoked with AMD about lately is how they develop this awesome thing Yeah, like TressFX And like HSA Mantle And just go like yeah, sure Open With HSA Someone else deal with it We'll just develop it And it's just like I mean is this a return to the Ath 164 days Where they said look here's our 64 bit extension and Intel go ahead Well, we'll license it to you obviously Yeah Intel but basically we want this to be a standard We worked really hard on this We'd like for people to use it I hope they do because it could be awesome Someone just said in the chat There's already TressFX style mods for Skyrim But one thing that he also brought up which is very important is it doesn't support like collision detection and stuff Right Which is like a really big deal Yeah So you know what I think we have to cut off the show now even though we honestly had probably a dozen more topics that we would have loved to talk to you guys about As always you can check out the document in the description of the YouTube archive So if you will just wanted to see what we thought was interesting this week even if we didn't get a chance to talk about it Please go ahead and do that Thank you so much for watching guys Huge thanks again to Hotspot Shield for sponsoring the show today It's so hard for us to bring a show like this to you guys With all the work that goes into it without sponsors to make it possible So guys if you haven't checked out Hotspot Shield before Check it out bit.ly slash HS share And if you wanted to use a VPN solution that's particularly applicable to our outside of the US viewers For whatever reason Guys try it out Give Hotspot Shield a chance The trial is free and if you have any problems and you post them on the forum Hotspot Shield has been pretty proactive about helping LinusTechTips.com forum members Which again we appreciate the support you guys That sets you apart from Again we need to make them an industry affiliate Yeah we should probably do that Alright peace out guys thanks for watching Are you doing an after party? I am doing an after party I'll cover Bill logs of the week there Sorry we didn't have time And I will try and cover some of the other random topics that we didn't cover So unofficial after party on the twitch.tv slash luke underscore lafr channel So guys we've noticed quite a few people are subscribing to that channel It should be noted that we're going to have some If you want to support us and what we do here There will be some better options where more of the revenue actually goes to us It's public dollars twitch takes 50% Yeah soon So if you kind of stay tuned for that There's going to be like some really good stuff Everyone says alright screw Linus Everyone over to Pistil's channel Alright guys why don't we do that whole thing Where we stop streaming and then we dump everyone Okay everyone go over to Pistil's channel So Pistil is also a member of the tech syndicate team So that's Logan and Wendell our guest today Everyone go over there and just be like YOLO Linus sent us YOLO? Yeah YOLO Well you do only live once Are you becoming Edzel now? Well I don't know I've been working with you guys for a long time I know Like I've been working with him over a year now Isn't that crazy? Over two years I've been working with you over two years Like Are we friends? Is the name of our company Beth? Yeah Linus Media Group's a stupid name for a company