 says, and I think what we've seen over the last however many years, since he's been back at Apple, it does seem that he was, if not the sole person responsible for many of these amazing devices, the iPad, the iPhone, he was a real driving force. He was putting pieces together that other people weren't putting together. Do you agree or disagree with that? Yeah, definitely. I think he saw the world differently. And I don't think anybody else in the world saw it differently. And I don't think any of us can really understand that, especially where he saw technology going. And he was right about a lot of things. He really was. I mean, sometimes it's arrogant. And obviously, he had this binary view of everything was either shit or the best thing ever. This is total shit or it's the best thing ever. And there was no ground in between. There's a great or there are bozos blowing it. For example, when he said in 2007 at the iPhone introduction that we're five years ahead of everybody else, I was blown away. I was in the audience. And I still, it was that one product. Were there tears? No, no tears. Was anybody there near you crying? No, but people were having fits. And it's a really good intro. Anybody here has not seen Steve Jobs introducing the first iPhone? It is kind of amazing. If you want to see how to introduce a product, it may never get better than that moment. It's the one product introduction that Apple did that actually was the one that everybody wants them to do every time, where they blow your mind away. And everyone before that was not like that. And everyone since then has not really been like that. The Cube wasn't like that. Or even the iPad, which arguably just as important to Apple going forward as the iPhone. I thought the iPad launch was actually kind of weird and somber. And there was a period where Jobs was, I don't know if you guys remember, but the first iPad launch, he sat down and he was just browsing. And there was a long period where he's like, now I'm going to go check out the New York Times. It was low key. Now I'm going to look at Flickr, just tap and go. It was just like that. Him just talking about what he was doing and he was just browsing. Yeah, it was low key. And it went on for like 10 minutes. And the reaction afterwards was there was an awful lot of, that's it? It's just a big iPod touch. Whereas nobody was disappointed by the iPhone. I mean, the iPhone thing was nobody was disappointed. Everybody was like, holy crap. And famously, the RIM had a meeting two days later where they went over it and they're like, they must be lying. That's not possible. Right, I mean, somebody who worked at RIM claims that they had that. But the reactions from the industry, from other people in the industry around that launch were hilarious. Palm was like, I think Ed Colligan was like, you're not just going to come in here and make a phone. We've been working on this for a year. Everybody was like, come on. PC guys aren't just going to come right in. Everybody's attitude in the industry who was making phones acted like, we're not worried about this at all. And then in a couple of years, everybody was like, Art, we are now going out of business thanks to the iPhone. Well, the Ed Colligan quote is one of my all-time favorites. Probably the most quoted thing I've done repeatedly. I should reblog it right now just because it's such a classic. But it was right before, like a month before. It was like December 2006, like a month before the iPhone comes out. Nobody knew what the iPhone was like. But the fever pitch of Apple's going to do a phone was at that point where it's like, well, they've got to do it now. And Ed Colligan, who was then the CEO of Palm, said, we're not worried. PC guys aren't just going to come right in. And whatever. But it's kind of interesting. Because A, he was so wrong. So wrong. But the most interesting is that he was wrong in a very important way, which is that the way phones have evolved since that day is that they're now computers. There's no denying that all the top phones are computers. They're computers that are more powerful than our laptops from maybe eight years ago, eight, nine years ago. And so you've got to be a PC guy. It's like, it could not have been. It was wrong not just that Apple was going to do well, but wrong about what it was going to mean to make a phone. They were always going to be these siloed devices that were meant to do one thing and not to do all this other stuff.