 Hey, hey, it's WAN Show time again. We've got a great show for you guys today Unfortunately, you aren't watching it. You're watching the WAN Show. Oh LOL you know I Really feel like when I'm old I want to rid of those Muppets names the hecklers the old man hecklers Oh, I haven't watched the Muppets in about 25 years. I don't I don't know well My I think I know you're talking about but my goal in life is to basically be those guys when I'm old Muppet Hecklers, I don't know. I don't know what their names. That's not very difficult to do Yeah, yeah, okay, so they're supposed to are weren't they supposed to be sort of like weird versions like Cisco and Ebert or something Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think so and you know everything everything is a one-liner with them They're like this is a great show. Yeah great at putting me to sleep I Aspire to nothing more actually That's gonna be very easy to do you're saying the bar very low for yourself I think I'm basically at I think I'm basically there now with You're just not old So that's all I have to achieve you just have to age to do it. That's it to do everything I want out of my life I just have to continue to make it around the Sun like another 40 or so more times and then I'll and then I'm great you live in Canada. They told me this is a safe country So it's probably fine Alright, so welcome to the land show you guys. We've got a bunch of great topics for you today including Intel Uncharacteristically throwing shade at the competition which for the first time in like a decade is AMD It's like the insecurity It's just dripping out of the computer screen right it was it was pretty brutal. It was pretty brutal. Yeah like also AMD's rise in threadripper and rise in Three have tons of new updates in a video post that they created earlier on this week the Skylake X VRM and thermal paste and power consumption mess has been explored by Tom's hardware, and we've got John here to specially cover a legal topic that we wanted to get into Which one was it? Where is it? Where is it? Zillow the Zillow? copyright infringement case Which sounds a lot less interesting than it actually is there we go Zillow's massive website tries to sue a Satirical blogger over photos that Zillow doesn't even own so Brilliant, yeah, so it's gonna be a good one, so let's go ahead and roll the intro, and we'll see you on the other side Roll the intro yes, it worked I Think we might be a little bit out of focus But that's okay. I'm never focused I Mean you did just take the joke right out of my head So I give you credit for that You won't miss it Okay, all right I fix it comic comic Back box and Put that back so that the intro will roll properly next time that is indeed why I do that Did the Twitter just crash how you even how even do this is it Twitter's fault or is it Chrome's fault? I don't I don't know it could very easily be the hell is over here playing with the focus. Yeah Oh, thank you. Hello. That is that is just wonderful and the tweet is up This is I didn't even know this so this is how double tweets happen, okay? Chrome Thank you All right, so the original topic here is from wow I actually managed to prepare even less than usual For the WAN show today. I do not have my HDMI cable plugged in and somehow I managed to my muscle memory didn't help me here I managed to put my mouse in the wrong spot all right. We're not boy scouts. We're gonna really prepared We're gonna jump right in this was originally posted over on ours Technica and oh we're doing this okay in a nutshell Here we go Linus's screen is it gonna work is it gonna work is it gonna? Oh wow there we go yes Okay, so Take me through this John. What is going on here? So as you can see on the screen grab there Yeah, I called McMansion hell and for those of you who don't know or probably mostly people not from the u.s. Yeah, what's a McCann chin a McMansion is a large yet? Relatively cheaply built house it was they were building them all over the place in the u.s. Before um the housing bubble burst in the late 2000s and there they're larger, but like I said slightly cheaper cheap more cheaply built houses and so this This blogger started this website called McMansion hell and this blogger is I think an architectural student so she was going through and posting all these pictures of Homes that she considered to be McMansion's and telling people oh These are terrible buildings that have terrible architecture here the reasons why and this is a regular blog that she updated it sounds pretty funny Yeah, it was pretty popular. She had lots of visitors Who liked her sort of snarky take on oh lol you can scrape these windows off with a paint knife? This is terrible So she got a lot of these pictures from Zillow Which is like this huge sort of like real estate site if you want to sell your house a lot of people use Zillow to Post pictures of the house on there, so sure okay. Yeah anyway, Zillow got wind of this and They so they sent her a very angry cease and desist letter saying oh You're infringing over copyrights, and you can't do this and this and that so um so this kind of blew up She freaked out, but like I like it's at stake so yeah, so she could lose her job, but Zillow didn't take these photos No, they didn't which is like a huge wrinkle in this case so the photos that People like they upload them to Zillow right so if you want to sell your house you take your own photos of your own house and you upload them the photos are yours and When so I had a look at What are we doing here? That's what you sound like sorry go ahead. That's what I sound like okay? Thank you. I know what I sound like I have plenty of people in the tech quickie comments Hey, John. Do you know that you sound like are you from the south? Yeah? Where are you from? Yeah, it's what what do you have in your mouth? What's wrong with your voice anyway? So I think someone has asked me that one time okay anyway, but all right So you take the pictures you put them on Zillow I had to look at Zillow's terms of service and they say okay if you put pictures on Zillow You're giving us a non-exclusive license to to use them. Yeah, that's pretty typical like even on the LTT forum I believe your text content. We actually say we own but pictures posted we did something along those lines and Okay, so if you look at if you look at if Zillow can even sue because that's the big one of the big questions It's like do they even have standing to sue and standing in laws of it's kind of a simple concept to understand right? It's if you're gonna take someone to court You have to be a party to whatever the dispute is if someone walks in here and punches lines in the mouth and knocks a few His teeth out yeah, so I can't sue my neighbor. Well. Maybe you could I can't sue on your behalf My livelihood is at stake because my boss can't come to work and shoot the videos that I write therefore But so yeah, it's a bit more tenuous, but but if let's say you were some complete frickin random Yeah, yeah, you can't sue because you have nothing Well well if someone okay suppose that lion's and I were just friends and we're walking down the street together suppose your friends Ha ha suppose someone comes up to him just punches him in the face. I can't sue That that guy on lion's behalf he has to do it himself so The concept is that how the how the concept applies here man? I've had way too much caffeine in it. It's all over the place The way the concept applies here is that the Fifth Circuit which is it was it was the ninth I'm sorry, but the Ninth Circuit in the US very influential appeals court right below the Supreme Court Yeah, there was a case from a couple years ago Where they ruled that you have you can have standing to sue about infringement of someone else's copyright Only if you have some sort of exclusive right which they in their own terms of service Do not have right if I don't know if it says non-exclusive specifically But it doesn't specifically say it's a cool what you would have to do correct so so this is Whether they even have standing to sue the McMansion hellblogger is very very very unclear I would my if I were to hazard a guess I would say they do not but it does They they do not but it didn't stop her from being in emerald in this big legal battle She's got some pretty prominent IP lawyers on her side right now But it's an interesting question about you know who gets could affect dank memes forever it absolutely could who gets to use Pepe which is which is why this conversation is important by the way, which is why we're having an online show But honestly, I'm still not over how low-key burned. I just got about a minute or two ago there The friends come suppose. We were friends. No no no with you. I qualified the statement. I'm saying just Let the records show I said just instead of friends plus Coworkers slash Linus so on Facebook our current status would be it's complicated Okay, okay, see you see what you've done. You've gone. You've gone on you've made this something It is and now there's gonna be more horrible like fanfiction written about this Thanks, and now yeah You're the one who invited it. You're the one who invited you know what oh, let's have you join us Come on. Let's have Luke join us for a fan fiction extravaganza If we're gonna invite it we might as well invite it It's just that I don't it's just that I don't want you to come between us. Oh, I use the words just friends to to imply In a legal hypothetical involving me and Linus and things happen so quick get naked says twitch chat um Speaking of violating the terms of service yeah, yeah, so basically Zillow still says um They they What do they want they wanted to take down the photos? Oh? Okay, but what's interesting about this another thing is interesting about this is that even if some court said that Zillow has standing to? Sue which I doubt but if it gets to that phase yeah um one of the biggest things that courts look for whether To determine if a use of the copyrighted photo or something is fair use that term gets thrown around a lot Fair use yeah is the effect on the market for the work right heck is going to like start selling They're random pictures of their random McMansions and make tons of money off of them right you know so and I think so I there's a there's a strong argument I'm not saying it'll win necessarily, but there's a strong argument saying there's no real market for these pictures That's being affected right so she wants to argue fair use but again like I said There's a standing issue may not even get to that point so okay got it Yeah, there's there's multiple hoops to jump through in in law if you ever fought a traffic ticket I'm sure you've figured that out so all right, so yeah, thanks John I'm gonna have Luke tag in because he actually just arrived back from the one and only Silicon Valley Can we talk about the Juicero real fast before he tags out we can talk about the Juicero, okay? Hold on is that even in the dock yeah, I put it in there like 45 minutes. All right. All right. Let's be extremely quickly We're bringing up the Juicero. Tell me about okay, so this is also from ours Have we ever talked about this thing before I know we haven't on the channel have we ever talked about like on the WAN show I cuz I don't believe not much we have Yeah, I think we says a little bit. We said yeah, it's dumb okay. I'll give you a really quick TLDR If also if you've seen any of criticals videos on YouTube I'm sure you've seen this where he Lampooned this ridiculous thing called the Juicero, and it's it is a juicer that originally cost $800 they've since dropped the price to 400 and now it's going to be down to below 200 according to this article from ours Technica But all it is is this thing they ship you packets. You know they look like they look like giant You know hotter coal packets or whatever they cost about five to seven dollars each You put them inside this thing to show the door on it you press a button and it has to be connected to the internet At all times it squeezes the juice packet and two minutes later. You have the glass of juice That's literally what it does and it originally sold for Seven or I think it was actually seven hundred dollars, but it was very expensive okay, so So apparently they've cut the price already They've cut the price down to two hundred dollars, and they've laid off a bunch of their staff and My question is my question was why it was so expensive to begin with and apparently this thing was this it was ridiculously over engineered some website did a Tear-down of it, and it was a really really high build quality which is great, but Sorry Oh, a ve right okay a ve did the did the tear-downs that right Luke, okay? So he did the tear-down and the thing was like I said absurdly over engineer And all was doing was just squeezing a bag of like fruits and vegetables to make juice out of it So they decided to lower the price down to two hundred dollars, but I'm wondering Why not just get an actual like baller juicer from Bed Bath and Beyond or somewhere or Amazon for that price? And you could even get like an Amazon fresh subscription and have the veggies and the fruits delivered to your door if you're too lazy to go to the store to buy them instead of instead of this I mean could you see is there a universe where you would find this useful? Linus like if you want to fresh juice after a badminton game or something so I have a Vitamix, okay, so Basically everything else can just get crapped on So no so no there Oh, and the stupid thing is that like s? Even at the $400 price point you could get a used Vitamix which by the way will probably run for like 50 years Because those things are unbelievable For the same price, and then you could put literally anything like you could put a child in a Vitamix We don't advise you do that Has never happened Well, I can't say it's never happened. Yes, it's never happened to my children or in my presence or at my instruction There you go am I covering all my legal bases right now. I think you are please do not I know that I know that The small children cry, but please don't put them in the Vitamix anyway, okay? What what what uh what is this modus proposal? It's like you're channeling the guy who wrote my basically this is so strange Oh crap. I'm hold on hold on Jonathan wait wait. Don't tell me oh No, you already gave me enough of a hint swift. Okay. Well dang it It'll we all we all know how intelligent you are Linus. It'll be alright So well remembering facts is not not an indication of intelligence necessarily although and complete inability to remember any facts Could be an indicator that you're not intelligent, so what does that mean about people who remember a lot of facts? nothing Yeah, I'll say this I say that's I say that's accurate all right Oh, of course the twitch chat Linus likes blended children confirmed. No, I don't like them Why would I put them in a blender if I liked them? Wait what were we talking about? Okay, the flavor of dead children onto our onto our next topic So thanks, John. Thank you Linus. I feel like I'm supposed to shake your hand, but like you work here I see you every day. It's like yeah I know, but it's like I feel like we're like having guests on like a talk show right now And like that's what they always do they're always like yeah John welcome to the show hey John Thanks for being on and we'll see you after the break. Yeah, you don't fresh books. Don't shake my hand Yeah, no, you're not um You're not uh who's doing the light show now cool bear. Yeah, cool bear. I'm not cool bear. You know what I? Just want to say thanks for having me on the show. Yeah, I really I really appreciate You know what's up? He knows what? I made you look so bad. I really appreciate the way he called me not a friend Then he's like you're not cool bear fine Okay, so do you want to talk about where you were like on a very high level yeah, and hell yeah, let's do it I got freaking you got burned owned you were down there for one day only one side of your face What are you doing? Okay? Why is that bad your brave heart dude wait for this to catch up? Oh, it's pretty bad your brave heart Okay, what are you doing? I went to twitch I went to hang out with my friend John and At one point time he was like let's go get lunch at the pier didn't realize how far away the pier was so we walked Yeah, like a very long time. It's like pure, and they're like numbered or whatever right? Yeah, sure and then had to walk all the way back. They're trendy in the Sun the whole time Yeah, well, I'm carrying my like ridiculously heavy backpack. Yeah I got picked up on that yeah, yeah That was uh it was an experience, so how's your trip? It was really good. It was fun checking out twitch They are a crazy company Can be careful what you say need I remind you what benevolent overlords this we are Leaning on right now to broadcast this here stream. This might be interesting. Oh lordy. It's Luke's mom. Oh good Hello my favorite hi I didn't know how long the walk was gonna be your mom's on my side for a change. You know you know you know when we went to Mexico Mom LaFreniere you know what happened. He didn't bring any sunscreen at all He asked me to buy him a tube of sunscreen after he'd already been burned which by the way is not how sunscreen works as you Well know and then he didn't pay me back for it I didn't really remember the story that he said he didn't pay me back for it. I was like that's probably true That's a big step we just shook hands I I'm not signing any documents taking legal custody of this guy getting adopted when you're in your like mid-20s Hangs up Even when I agree with your mom she still finds a way to burn me Even when we're on the same team, maybe not as bad as maybe not as bad as I got burned Yeah, not as bad as you got burned, but yeah, it was it was a fun trip. They have like they have a Multiple five versus five gaming lounges in their studio course they do they have a bar of course I do open bar on Fridays At least for the team that I was talking to they're like time policy They have unlimited vacation they show up any time they want before lunch is served at twitch I don't know the exact time that that is it's not noon, but it's like whenever it's served at twitch and Yeah, so when am I getting your two weeks notice? No, no, I think I'm gonna I get a month At least a month yeah, yes, well, that's okay. I can train up a new Luke in that time. No problem No problem at all. Yeah, there's a fun trip though. Yeah, it's good. Cool. Okay, I I So let's move on to our first topic this is Actually like okay spicy, so here's the thing you know you go hang around you know slash G or whatever and You'll find you'll find plenty of hate for Intel and their business practices and their Communications and you'll find it hate for anything Intel But For the most part for the last You know dad eight or so years when they haven't really had a real competitor Intel has put on a very good and It's up to you the individual viewer to pick your next word. This is like a choose your own adventure book Okay, you can decide whether it's Whether it's having a pretty professional Image or a pretty professional facade it's up to you I don't care, but for the most part they've been fairly professional and fairly dignified in their corporate communications and their slide decks in their presentations to partners and to the press So this was originally posted by Finn Hulk this on the Hulk fist on the forum Finn Hulk fist I love that name any any Nordic names are just Frickin awesome Hulk fist Nordic name Operation cannot possibly go wrong is to have a name like Hulk this And the original I thought it was literally just Hulk fist oh no. I was like I don't think that's a yeah No, okay. I got you so Intel This is just Posted by tech power up here in an official slide deck Posted the following okay first of all There's some debate in the industry as to A couple of things number one as to how exactly Intel is deriving These SMT numbers so so that's Intel's hyper-threading TM and AMD's what are they calling it? I don't I can't remember whatever something something else, but SMT okay, so Symmetrical multithreading yeah So where you take one core and you feed it a couple of threads so it can process both of them more efficiently than if It had just processed one thread in the first place Okay, so it's unclear a couple things number one How exactly they derive these numbers because they don't necessarily align with what? All the sort of tech media are seeing and number two whether this is an applicable comparison in the first place because Intel is basically taken as e on 61 34 and they have run clock for clock against a Ryzen 7 desktop chip with The clear argument being that this is a close analog because these are both eight core 16 thread processors running at 2.2 gigahertz now to be clear probably That comparison works fine because contrary to what the people who got really confused by mine and Luke's discussion about Vega Frontier Edition Contrary to what those people think architecturally hardware wise oh yeah, the consumer grade stuff is Often not materially different from the enterprise great stuff sometimes You'll see better binning a longer warranty you'll see a more functional units enabled Or you'll see some some flags enabled for features that were turned off in order to artificially differentiate them That's where most of the difference comes from so Fundamentally Intel's comparison here may not actually be that far off hardware hardware wise But that doesn't change that there are other questions here as well. What's the baseline? That's one thing I really hate about these graphs single thread, so that's the other thing You don't know is single thread. I guess so Improvement over Intel single thread improvement over AMD single thread I guess say anywhere Well, there's more information on slide 20 to 21. Okay, so that's that's fine honestly the negative 13% is just like what that's not Well there are situations where hyper threading as well does result in a performance loss, right? But I don't think we've seen that on Ryzen we haven't but that specific workload that who knows how cherry picked or not cherry picked It is honestly. That's not the thing that bothered me that much It's not that unusual whether it's AMD Intel or Nvidia to include some basic Performance comparisons when they're trying to make their product look good in a slide deck This one is one of the ones that blew me away where Intel basically gave themselves a check mark for robust ecosystem Decades of investment in software optimizations and validation easier application to deployment for customers and some of the stuff on here is just like Okay, hold on a second Like hold on what okay, so yeah Hold on hold on okay. I'm trying to find something just totally stupid There were there were a couple that were that were really dumb like we're gigabytes on here somewhere Like what what software optimization are you doing with gigabyte on your new server chip that AMD doesn't here it is so here's here's like gigabyte on here because freaking or something so then AMD Doesn't get gigabyte on their list of partners, right? Not even gigabyte early none who I'm pretty sure that AMD works with question mark We didn't look into it not even super micro Okay, who I'm pretty sure that AMD is working with on their Naples Product and by pretty sure I mean you can you can bet on that And the list goes on and on I'm sure AMD is talk to Microsoft Okay, I'm pretty sure that conversation is going going on right now, so they basically go They take this quote totally out of context Expect software optimizations needed for Naples just like Ryzen which is fair But what Intel ignores is that when they launch a new architecture? Software optimizations are needed it is it is not even newsworthy Newsworthy whether it's Intel or AMD for there to be an erratum. I believe is the singular of irasha Okay, right. I'm okay So some kind of weird bug where the CPU needs updated microcode and needs maybe even a driver fix in order to fix some kind of a weird hardware bug that that stuff happens to both of them and Basically, they're gonna get they've turned that into AMD's Ryzen CPU gaming perform. Oh, yeah, okay So they took so they took another quote totally out of context Ryzen CPU gaming performance inhibited by lack of optimization So they're basically saying look software not optimized for their four die per socket implementation Likely a multi-year investment effort to develop optimize and validate an ecosystem that is is taking a nugget of truth and And blowing it up into a movie theater room filled with popcorn And a nugget is not even a kernel. That's how far off we are random little tidbit I can't verify this because I I can't find them, but apparently there's two Hitachi's Hitachi's just listed twice. Oh seriously. It's just kind of yeah, here's Hitachi hold on here. We go. Okay Where's the other one? Here's a Hitachi and here's a hit. Oh, there you go. Yeah, so Intel works with Hitachi so much that they Hitachi while they hit Hachi so they can hit Hachi while they hit Hachi Yo dog, they're that hardcore on Hitachi I mean for all I know there's multiples that are in there twice because I don't think anyone looked that closely at this slide No, I don't think legal looked at this slide or maybe maybe they did but they were just like yeah I don't really know. No, I thought IBM was in there twice, but no. Yeah. All right Okay, and you know what's the craziest part is this is that that's not even where this ends No, like that's not even the super hardcore part. This isn't my opinion. No, no this gets worse and once again Oh in these black and white terms, okay Okay, Oh Intel yes, yes, yes No, no, no, no, no, no This is like, you know, you know when you go to one of those like it's usually slightly ghetto websites And they'll be like this is our product whole bunch of check usually it's for like a video ripping software Yeah, right. This is their product. No check marks. They suck and sometimes it's on nicer stuff But usually it's a little bit more granular and they'll actually show like yeah their software does this thing But we do more of these things. Yes, but usually that's the dignified way to do it Yeah, whereas like the janky software way is like has three red pixels in the bottom corner Yes doesn't does it So here we so so let's go. Let's go. Let's go back to this And I'm taking a side here because we got it. We got a look at the slide proven system performance and innovation Inconsistent performance from four glued together desktop dies Do I detect that Intel is neither blue nor red? But perhaps a little green yeah right now about infinity fabric Wow, because it's not glued together and and Do I detect some nearly decade old salt right now? from back when AMD was crapping on Intel for gluing together single core processors which by the way Intel was super doing back when they released the Pentium D series Compared to AMD's architected dual core design do I detect some salt here because a modular it's like a modular core design is not the same thing as taking your single core product and Slapping two dies onto a package Okay, let's carry on next point architected for the data center Which has nothing to do with inconsistent supply nothing at all and poor track record now You can go after AMD for having a bit of a poor track record over the last little while sure I don't think that AMD's supply for opter on has been the problem I just don't think anyone's wanted it for a while so basically Intel is taking Irrelevant unrelated points and saying and we're architected for the data center Which has nothing to do with those other things we said also? Naples is Super architected for the data center okay, AMD epic may have a silly gamery name, and it does yeah But that changes nothing about the way that infinity fabric and the way that they built this architecture for Mondo PCI Express lanes, which is super a big deal for the data center right now That has nothing to do with the way that this product was designed for massive amounts of memory and Massive numbers of connected devices via PCI Express Okay carrying on Robust software and hardware. Yeah, we're go. We're going after that again. We're going after the ecosystem lack of Ecosystem they have no ecosystem none at all none at all this you can't you can buy the chip you can't put it in anything And you know software for it. There's no compatible hardware Here's the problem with this hard sales pitch in this deck right now if Intel had come out and said Look, we've got a more mature ecosystem. That's way more reasonable We've been supporting the data center for the last five years in a way that AMD has just been completely out of the game for We understand our customers better than AMD coming in as practically an outsider is in a position to do right now You know what the weird thing is? I have gone Okay, the people who hate Intel are going to hate this because they can find something to hate in anything that Intel does But I can accept that this slide. I cannot accept this slide specifically Feels like some person you know how you know how everyone's wrong You'll see like Intel slides, and it's obviously not a real Intel slide It feels like some random dude on YouTube was like I have memes Intel is attacking AMD and just like through this slide together in five minutes. This is dank means It's actually this is dank memes level yeah And the show is not even over like the show's not over There's but wait. There's more oh Look at these look at these arrows this good bad This is like a lesson in how to not do PowerPoint it's like the clickbait version of business marketing right Fully integrated all capital letters big arrow. Yeah, here's zions Oh, oh by the way hold on a second, okay? Yeah, here's the way that all the cache communicates and we're just kind of ignoring right now the way that all these cores are interconnected because in some Okay, now. I'm not the the the uber Architect surely you know yes, I understand I'm intentionally speaking in a non grammatically correct fashion right now because CPU low level CPU architecture is not a Strong point for me. I do lean on more technical people like Dr. Cutress over at an on tech to explain this stuff to me sometimes, but to represent your CPU architecture as fully Integrated as though there aren't internal interconnects and internal bottlenecks on a many core Intel Xeon is not a fair representation of Exactly how that works and they're saying here single die implementation maximizes performance and in some cases that may Affect performance positively compared to AMD's approach, but to call AMD's approach Which by the way these coherent links matter and the way that every set of zenn core So there's eight per module here the way that every set of zenn cores has a coherent link Against every single other one yeah freaking matters notice the cross links in the middle that matters And they drop the glued together again glued together is not a fair representation of what AMD is doing over there Unbelievable rough So it kind of actually goes on and on but I feel like we've spent a long time on this topic and the point is This is Beneath Intel This is not an appropriate dignified way for them to respond They don't have to like Even if they like we've seen this before it's not like AMD has never blindsided Intel with an architecturally and price to performance superior product Athlon 64 and first generation Opteron came in and kicked ass in a way that Zen actually doesn't like Zen is competitive Zen is competitive, but not as crazy as like yeah, yeah, but it's not like AMD came out of absolutely nowhere and took the performance crown and Even when AMD had the performance crown it took a long time outside of the enthusiast space and the and actually I mean on server it it kind of went better than on the desktop but It took a long time for AMD to claw back significant enough market share that Intel couldn't launch core to duo and Basically crap all over everything AMD had achieved in a very short period of time from a business standpoint Not from an industry disruption and moving all of us forward standpoint I mean they brought us 64-bit on the desktop So the fact that Intel is is reacting in this knee-jerk Undignified fashion it doesn't make business sense. It doesn't make company image sense It might not even make legal sense. Yeah, that's a little rough I said the glued together part is like specifically an issue so Basically come on guys So about that time oh, oh yeah, right Speaking of sup, you know what sup? Oh, oh cool. We haven't done a comic bento spot in a long time. Yeah, we have oh you did one direct No, all right. Well, whatever it'll be fun for me. Yeah, so comic a bento is your original Comic-book subscription box with at least a $50 value in each box Every box comes with four to five graphic novels and it's 25 bucks a month or less Depending on your plan selection. There are monthly themes and this one is old School, it's pretty cool. There's there's Avengers 4. I'm not gonna go into like you ruining what I'm about to unbox Did you just do did you just do what I thought you did? There's not Avengers definitely And it's right. It's the top one. It's the top one on the box Of course it is That's okay because that means you can't spoil that much of the surprise for me. Yeah. Yeah That would have been pretty obvious comes with a cardboard backing. So your precious graphic novels will not be bent unnecessarily All right, cool a Classic feeling team updated for a modern reading experience. Wow, these are actually really nicely printed. Yeah They often are Cool. What else we got in here? Captain victory. I have to confess. I am freaking not familiar with Captain Victory Neither am I okay cool Next up we've got sovereign One thing that I do like about these is they often try to come in with one that you recognize Right and then filter in some other ones that looks super cool But you might not know about right you're like a super hardcore comic fan and that you'll you'd never like I mean, okay perfect example of Sort of getting drawn into something that might not have a great cover. This has a great cover though Cinderella serial killer princess, how can I like I'm gonna read this after the show apparently? That'll be great as for the Cinderella one specifically I was reading this serial killer princess critically acclaimed reinvention of Cinderella This book is for fans of Deadpool and Harley Quinn ask comics Which if you look at the front and the art style with right her heel and stuff. Yeah, totally makes sense And takes revenge violence to a whole new level fun So perfect example of this is that I was stuck with absolutely nothing to do at my uncle's house and The only thing on his shelf that wasn't like Russian poetry or something was bone Are you familiar with bone? No, okay? That's a graphic novel. It looks like this thick for all of them You should borrow it sometime. This is great It's something that I wouldn't have looked at unless somebody put it in front of me and said well You have nothing else to do right now so you're gonna have to read this or do nothing or If I paid for it already, so damn it. I better try it. Yes So cool, so you can sign up using code LTT to get seven bucks off comic bento today over at comic bento calm also sponsoring the show today is fresh books Slash LTX so if you're a small business owner or a freelancer, and you're looking for a super simple accounting tool Fresh books has got you covered and like honestly I could go on and on about it forever There's the fact that you can It's all cloud-based so you can do it on your desktop or your laptop or you can have the full functionality of fresh books on Your mobile device you can track your expenses you can bill your clients you can see when they've seen your invoices Etc etc etc but the point is if you want to save time and make more money by doing work instead of Documenting your work and billing for your work fresh books is the way to go and they have graciously agreed to sponsor LTX 2017 which is coming up very soon July 29th. We've got Literally a trailer load worth of swag over in the other way. Have you seen the swag pile? No, it's it's freaking sick Can I steal some? You can you can do whatever is required at the show to get swag just like everybody else That's actually way more interesting. I'm totally down. We've got swag. We've got activities We are gonna have some very very special builds there. So the plan the plan is to have The arcade build there Yeah, the ultimate DIY arcade. Yeah, the plan is to resurrect Resurrect mineral oil PC. Yeah, the plan is to have a one-of-a-kind Wall pewter there, you know about that project. No, actually. Yes. Yes. Yes, and There is a really special project. I'm all I'm gonna say is it involves about 200 pounds worth of monitors and monitor mounting hardware It's like genuinely really really cool and it'll be there and you'll see it in person It's cooler than the one that I saw down in Silicon Valley. Cool. Like straight up So try out fresh books head to freshbooks.com slash when and enter when in the how did you hear about us section? They got a free trial there and finally iFixit If you're familiar with iFixit and you probably are if you've ever tried to replace a battery in a sealed device or say almost anything replaced a screen or Upgraded an iMac because those things are actually not easy to open up unless You've got all the equipment you need from iFixit So they've got professional guides and they've also got a fantastic lineup of great high quality tools And this one right here the ProTech tool kit is now only 59.95 it includes the 64-bit driver kit with all the bits that you need for just about any DIY electronics repair It's got an anti-static strap. It's got their suction cups. It's got their prying tools. It's got their ESD safe tweezers and Oh, yeah, I've already spoiled the punchline. It's only 59.99 now So head over to iFixit.com slash Linus and pick up yours You can often buy yourself an iFixit Toolkit and for an hour or two of your time Yeah, you can basically have your toolkit covered With the money that you would have spent paying somebody else to do a very basic repair Honestly one of my favorite things about it is before this I had like a few different screwdrivers Yep, and like they did different screwdrivers would have different sized bits with them and stuff Yeah, and now I just grab one thing and you'd always be running around looking for that one. Yeah All right, so this was posted originally by Valentine on the forum and Nontech is the original article here We've got a lot more details about Threadripper as well as Ryzen 3 So the Threadripper 1920x and 1950x are going to be 12 and 16 core processors They are freaking huge that is a real human hand for scale and they're going to cost 799 and 999 AMD has basically come right in and said Nope, this stuff doesn't cost that much..png the pricing for Wow, Skylake X is now looking a little bit out of whack I mean it remains to be seen exactly how well they perform, but we know clock speeds the 1950x will apparently have a base clock of 3.4 gigabyte gigahertz and a boost of 4 gigahertz Wow That is not freaking bad on that many threads It's got a TDP of a hundred and eighty watts. That's fun though But I don't even care if Ryzen is anything to go by it looks like we might get a proper Tim So a proper thermal interface material which will help to dissipate that heat and Because it is such a large I don't want to say chip because that doesn't matter because the overall Die area under the spreader is so large We're going to see coolers that are optimized to have heat pipes across as many of those processing cores as possible And it should be Potentially easier to manage also assuming that AMD doesn't rush the ecosystem too much Hopefully we won't rush the system too much Hopefully we won't run into any problems with the boards, but all of that remains to be seen and you know combined with Combined with Intel's woes on x2 99 right now is further validation For all the people criticizing me for moving our editors over to x99 Shortly before the x2 99 launch yeah, that's why I do it because in much that like and it has nothing to do with bias It's not AMD Intel Nvidia. I don't give a crap if it's mission critical. I am NOT running You know one general then you have all the bios updates you have tons of different chips that updates You have so much and I might run it if it's one machine Yeah, I'm not going to go and invest an entire workstation change out in something that Maybe it's good, or maybe I'm going to find out that that board that I put in there has some Silly bug and needs to be recalled or whatever when that would be thoroughly covered on forums everywhere by that time That's right buying a year old board. That's right I can just buy something that's based on that It's like the same basically the same board is what we've been running on our test benches for the last you know year and a Half speaking of things you can do with this though. Are you going to go back to x gamers one CPU? um not with thread Ripper probably okay, but if we can get something going with epic Okay, I would love to do something very interesting with epic and you can even be like genuinely one this time Actually, yeah Yeah, yeah, we could because a lot of people Roasted Linus because it had two CPUs in it it was supposed to be a play on two girls one cop I know what it was supposed to be but I'm saying you cop either way. I'm I don't really mind it that gamers girls I thought the joke was funny. I thought the joke was funny. Everything's cool. I'm just saying you could actually do it this time He is kind of a suck-up isn't he John was right. Okay? I don't care. I don't want you anymore I'm hosting a show by myself. I'm still in the frame. I can just talk louder for days All right next topic Sky like X mess explored against this my my turn to throw it throw it Intel. Oh jeez That's kind of a rough day So far sky like X has been plagued by two main issues at its stock settings. It can barely be cooled All your things in the way. Oh, no, sorry, but during normal operation this is due to its power consumption being extremely high in some situations we also found that the Hmm There's a huge cooling issue with the board but I got VRM's VRM's yeah The VRM said a huge cooling issue that was a couple weeks ago. Yeah, there's barely any room for enthusiasts to overclock Also many motherboards limits sky like X CPUs further due to poor design choices Like I just mentioned such as insufficient VRM cooling. So This may be this may be the dawn of the motherboard full cover block Oh, hey, so that's like that's been a thing. Yeah, but it's never really made sense because so going back Going back to like the early 2000s It was pretty commonplace for motherboards to have little whiny annoying fans on them Yeah, and then right around the time of like I guess enforce Enforce three or enforce for what was the a8n32 SLI deluxe? Deluxe I can't remember what chipset that was I want to say enforce for Okay, so That's an a8n32 SLI deluxe terrible image, but you get the point. So we did away with noisy North bridge and especially South bridge coolers because they have to keep it low profile because you can install cards here, right? This SLI existed at the time And we did away with that and we moved towards this Heat pipes that lie flat on the board and carry all the heat up around the CPU socket area with the assumption that either You're gonna have an air cooler sitting on your CPU That's gonna generate enough passive airflow to deal with the VRMs here and here as well as the heat from the South bridge in The North bridge which end up here So that paradigm has lasted us pretty much until now we might be returning to active cooling on VRMs if there's no other way to deal with this and Honestly what this kind of looks like to me is like Intel has said that like hey that we have a plan for the rollout of Core i9 so we're gonna do this here this here, and it has to do with CPU yields It has to do with that honestly I wonder if part of it has to do with that they just like actually on the engineering Side have no idea how they're gonna launch this Yeah, they're just trying to buy some time I could see it This will be interesting because this can be pretty much the first time ever that I will see a motherboard full cover block And be like yeah good call that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, cuz in the past it's looked really cool Yeah, but it's been like, okay That's an excessively expensive PC Probably because of a showcase and it probably makes no sense in terms of actually anyone ever doing this But it looks cool for whatever brand wanted to show it off like sure why not but that's that'll be pretty cool It'll be interesting having people like actually ask questions about full cover blocks. I know right All right, what else we've got for I just have to I just have to pause the show for a second Timmy Val one two three in the twitch chat just had an all capital letters I just wanted to make sure that I re echo this I have a boyfriend. I just wanted to make sure It's apparently extremely important that you have one know or that Timmy does that Timmy does hey, you know what Timmy? Congrats, okay. Good job. All right Facebook plans to unveil a $200 now we've heard that before yeah Wow Wireless that's new Oculus VR headset in 2018 The whole twitch just like congrats to me. Oh Man yeah, I mean that's cool. Don't name Pacific if anyone's looking to buy an oculus rift it's designed and this is gonna terrify you to bridge the gap between cheap smartphone mounted VR headsets and high-end gaming ones Oh, it does not need to be tethered to a PC or a phone it will ship next year and represent an entirely new category The device hold on just hold it in for now the device resembles a more compact version of the rift and will be lighter than Samsung's gear VR headset the idea is that someone will be able To pull the headset out of their bag and watch movies on a flight just the way you can now with a phone or tablet Oh, hold it in the new headset will have a similar interface to a gear VR and can be controlled via wireless remote They plan to power the product with a snapdragon mobile chip from Qualcomm and its gaming power will be superior to that of the gear VR but unlike the powerful rift device and it will not include positional tracking technology. Oh They plan to begin briefing content makers on the device by October and It will have a download store. Oh the downloads will be rewritten and accessible from a virtual reality interface And go so they gave up Like Is that it is that all that I should say? Oculus just gave up. There's like that screw it VR is done We're out of here. We have lots of Facebook money. That's fine. No one's buying headsets because they're overpriced and not very good right now So we're just gonna stop developing those and we'll just make a phone that's built into the headsets you can't take the phone out and There you go You could just buy this one that you can just slip this device that you've literally always F and carry on you in the front of it and it'll just work and that would be totally fine And it doesn't cost that much but no it's gonna be ever so slightly faster and you can watch movies on the plane Wow You can't already do that on your phone or like the screen that's built into the freaking chair in front of you It's gonna suck Mmm word that I'm not gonna say in terms of performance. That's a huge issue right now VR applications for desktop Your desktop computer is usually not fast enough to run really really high fidelity really really high quality games It's a little bit of an issue. It's a little bit hard to do It's possible but it's difficult and then the headsets that you have right now for desktop tethered like the Vive and the current Rift don't have good enough screens Don't have good enough a lot of other kind of stuff to be at the minimum quality that consumers expect and they're way too freaking expensive So you release a dedicated $200 device which no one's gonna really want to buy because they can just slip their thing into a daydream Or whatever which should be a lot cheaper and probably will be now that this launches Not to mention that stuff like this already has existed I literally carried I was literally the product manager for view six back at NCIX Sony has one yeah Like Sony professionally has a movie viewer designed for things. Are you ready to chill out a little bit? Because I withheld one key piece of information from you. Oh god. I'm like very angry and disappointed But Facebook has also said it's working on a prototype device named Santa Cruz That is basically a wireless rift with the full power of the original device sans PC Actually, that's not gonna make you any less mad probably sans PC without a PC Wait what? Okay, sorry. I I thought they were just talking about wireless rift. I didn't read the last two words, okay? I don't understand how that makes sense. So basically So you need a backpack so basically it's it's a porn device now Yes, and you can watch porn on a plane they gave up Like I've mentioned on like two WAN shows recently. I've gotten some flack for it, but it is a thing It's not all of the posts, but there's a notably increased amount Compared to quite a few months back if you go to like the oculus subreddit of posts that are just about porn And you know what you want to look at porn on your device go for it. I don't care I don't give a crap at all But what these things are really supposed to be doing in the long run is like really really interesting Entertainment mediums not watching movies on a plane. I'm talking about like a virtual big look hold on Picture this oh god virtual big screen Just killed him a little bit inside. I think every time hold on get this Simulated theater experience is so bad. It's so bad. I don't understand It's so bad. Oh But there's such interesting experiences that you can do and such interesting experiences you can have if you come to LTX I'll try to show you some of them. There's specific Servios is a specific VR game development company that is making very good and very interesting things Raw data, and I don't remember the name of their new one But it's a running one and it's racing and it's actually really cool you race against each other And you can like you have to run around, but it's kind of like skis I finally got Arizona sunshine Arizona sunshine is pretty cool There's Robo recalls like amazing like there's really really good experiences that you can have But the device was supposed to be a different price than it was by a lot because there's a huge cost in the computer already There's way too expensive pissed off. This was really fun. Okay. Why don't we talk about something a little lighter? Well, it's a little heavy the KFC phone It's the only thing about KFC that could be light at all this might make more sense than that stupid thing It's always special edition KFC smartphone for China. So what it's only sorry someone in the chat Just said man cares too much. I do I Really want VR to work and I just I feel I mmm. I feel like they're just doing like clearly the wrong They'll make it work It's just gonna be like kind of lame mainstream VR for like a long time long time and like that gap I was talking to was it Rubio Jeff Rubio? I could have the name wrong, but the guy from Naughty Dog that now works for Oculus And he gave a timeline and I was like, you know what that makes sense And I think it was something about something around three years from when I had that meeting Yeah, and you can line up that meeting because that lined up with a counter-strike tournament where I made a video about Watching the counter-strike tournament with the vibe, right? I Don't think that's gonna happen anymore So in other news, it's to celebrate KFC's 30th anniversary within the country of China Okay, the KFC edition of the Huawei and joy 7 plus was unveiled by the restaurant chain via its official Weibo page In addition to a snazzy red finish and a picture of the kernel on the back of the device The smartphone comes preloaded with the K music app which allows you to play music Over the speaker system installed in KFC restaurants what which definitely wouldn't get annoying Really really really fast for everybody else and won't be eliminated entirely almost immediately only 5,000 probably like produced Pre-approved music they can put through I guess so and there are other weird KFC things So, um, oh no, never mind. These are just other weird KFC things They had a takeout box that apparently doubled as a smartphone charger and a facial recognition scanner in conjunction with search giant by do Baidu whatever to help offer meal suggestions Oh boy, like they say well I guess it just looks for how many chins you have and decides how many pieces of chicken you need Like is that how that would work? What a difficult it be Get like machine learning to like analyze faces That would actually be fascinating if you could how accurate it would be if you could try out your own area because KFC unlike Somewhere. Okay, so let's take it a and w actually and w in the states is actually very different from up here So this none of this might make any sense But let's take a and w you can be like a matzah burger person or you can be a teen burger person And there would be nothing you could know or like a chubby chicken burger. These are all sort of equivalent quantities of food They're both the same, but they taste quite different. Yes Whereas at KFC there's chicken and there's less chicken and there's more chicken like a bucket of chicken Yeah, there's like a little tiny box or a small box of bucket of chicken Yeah, like yeah or a trough of chicken like it's it's all about chicken I would be curious to know if you could just enter like a picture of yourself and like of your house and Of your and entered your BMI if it could tell you what you were planning to order at KFC That would be a very interesting study Just in like in like how humans do thing and like psychology it would just be a very very interesting study I Would read it Okay The one plus five display is upside down so this was posted by nerdslayer on the forum oops Confirmed the jelly scrolling effect which honestly I didn't even notice it is amazing the kinds of things like like Well, it's stupid because like I'll be able to tell the difference between like 72 and 60 Hertz on a display yeah If I'm playing a game or something and people be like who cares whereas like I look at like a phone and I'm like What there's a slight kind of rebounding effect when you scroll and they're calling it the the jelly jelly scrolling effect or something like that Yeah, and apparently it is caused by one plus by one plus moving the motherboard and hence flipping the display panel in order to accommodate their new dual lens camera module so they consciously rearrange the internals and then are using a a Normally only used for diagnostics, but they actually use this so they used a field that you can that exists in Android where you can display 180 degrees yeah in order to account for this rearrangement That's so weird and so what users did was they manually changed other devices to be upside down and The jelly scrolling effect appeared on them now what I'd like to know because obviously If you hold a display like this that doesn't have an upside down display Installation go like this or you hold it like this and go like this it doesn't matter So what I want to know is if this is just a matter of a simple optimization Yeah, that could be done in software like it would be So well, we'll see we'll see The Google pixel 2 design was leaked this was posted by Mr. Chow 1 9 9 1 0 3 1 9 on the forum and the original article here is from Android police apparently it will be made by LG this time rather than HTC And this is apparently the pixel XL with a low bezel amoled display and a squeezable frame So HTC won't be the only one with a squeezable frame neat I Guess that's cool. It's one of those things that like I've never really asked for why do you want? What's the benefit you can have it do stuff? Okay, yeah Six inch amoled display with round corners glass windows On the back is smaller this time fingerprint readers no longer inside of it, but below it no visible antenna bands It's believed it will have a squeezable frame. Okay, so it's pretty much all we know none of that sounds super important to me Um, there's things that I care a lot more about on the pixel 2 than any of that information So I think we'll have to wait Logitech is on a roll here acquisitions This is posted by a Dyson on the forum the original article here is from CNET apparently or I could just use the Press release that they sent me autoplay no So there there won't be like a gaming headset industry eventually because it'll just be Logitech and razor and razor That's fair who else exists? Turtle Beach is sort of still kicking around like on the console side. I think okay I don't understand quite how but I didn't understand why Astro had a right to exist either I mean to be clear apparently the a40 is great the only one I ever reviewed was the a50 and it was terrible I've never had a good experience with them It was an abominable value and that was compared to wireless headphones that are headsets that existed back then and To my knowledge. I don't think they've updated it So they bought ultimate ears. They bought Jaybird. They acquired SciTech. They've been doing great things I haven't seen what they've done with SciTech yet. Have they released anything? I don't know if they've done much with SciTech But basically Logitech kind of went well. We're an engineering company. We're just gonna embrace that and Screw it. We're just gonna buy brands It's been working so far the ultimate ears one especially I'm interested to see what they do with SciTech because I'd love that kind of stuff, but yeah Yeah, meanwhile Razer is running around buying THX and phone maker nextbit So apparently the deal will close in early August and Yeah, basically I didn't even read any of Logitech statements about it because this is fairly transparent Yeah, Logitech couldn't figure out why the hell Anyone was using Astro gaming headsets, which is valid so they went okay? Well, I don't want to deal with this anymore and bought them Which is valid? Yeah So we love the Astro gaming branding especially from way back in the day was really sick Like I remember they had at PAX they were giving away an Astro gaming shirt And it was like by far the coolest one at the event and like they had a really cool booth And they partnered with really cool people So I could understand how if like you're just woefully ignorant in terms of headsets And you're like I went to this cool event and they had cool stuff I'm gonna tell my friends and we're all gonna buy them You know I mean especially before like reviews on that kind of stuff was a big thing and easily accessible Lately though, I don't know how they're still around I Don't know man Apparently this is great so Apparently Logitech is doing a really cool thing so apparently Logitech is taking in and if it ain't broke don't fix it approach here and the Astro and Logitech G brands will keep separate teams and Basically they're saying we don't just want to jam a new product down your throats every year just because we can So that's the nice way of saying if you guys like this trash, then we'll just keep making it for you I guess As far as I can tell Wow because there's no doubt that Logitech's engineering Knows a lot more about engineering than Astro's engineering Astro might be able to help them make it so the headsets don't fall off people's heads. Okay, that's fair. That would be good That's fair one little update there. Yeah, that's fair but then Logitech also could have just like gone and bought a HyperX cloud and Disassembled it if they wanted to understand how that works. Yeah All right, so on that note, thank you for watching the WAN show We will see you guys again next week same bat time same bat channel Do you want to do a short after party stream? We can. Sure. Let's do it. Yeah Yeah Bye Bye Bye People are calling me Linus lame tips Wow Wow, why I have never been called something that offensive in my life. Look at this. How do they do this? Like how do you screw this up? The easiest thing in the world would be to use the same file this one's see this one's right sort of except the face Why do they change I don't know