 You got it Okay ladies and gentlemen welcome to the WAN show I Gotta tell you this is the least prepared I have been for the show in quite some time I couldn't find the capture card. I couldn't find my chair, and I couldn't even find my regular co-host But for many of you that probably won't be much of a problem because you might remember that This is Mr.. Scott wassen who has actually joined us a couple of times in the past though It would have been in his previous role as the editor-in-chief and owner of tech reports So I don't I think we actually covered it on the show, but just to be clear. What's this cap? Saison nonsense you're wearing on your shirt here. Oh, so cap station is an event that we've had We've had a couple of them at GDC. I kind of meant who's we now we I should say So I left the tech report a little over a year ago and joined AMD so I'm in the Radeon technologies group at AMD And so working with the GPU guys especially in Radeon gaming and so cap station is an event We've had at the game developers conference that I that we didn't get to attend because in video was busy telling us about Vulcan right I think was what most of that presentation Meanwhile Luke is sitting here with like a video with I think 700,000 views or something on YouTube explaining pretty much what he sat in the presentation hearing It's kind of sitting here. When are you gonna talk about 1080 TI? I can talk about 1080 TI yet anyway Sorry, so cap say some the event we missed yes, please carry on yeah Well, it's basically we're talking with developers about our new tech right so we talk about things like Vega architecture at cap Saison what what we're doing in terms of you know GPU open things various things that we do to help game developers Make their games better in our GPUs, so I mean this feels like kind of a you scratch my back. I scratch your back kind of situation We've never We've oh actually no once we have but okay in the last three years We haven't allowed a Manufacturer to co-host the WAN show with us so you mentioned Vega there Do you have anything anything you can share with us? New stuff, I don't know we talked a lot about Vega given It's not actually out yet. We said it's coming soon, and we talked a ton about the architecture right we've actually disclosed a ton I'm so mean putting you on the spot like that and I've talked about Vega architecture with a lot of people and I love Talking about there's some cool stuff that we're doing so we're gonna chat about that later Yeah, we've got a lot of other great topics for you guys including This is awkward Nvidia releasing the Titan XP Apple to begin making their own GPUs Nvidia to release Pascal drivers for Mac OS Um oh and YouTube updates the partner program That seems safe. Yeah. Yeah some of these topics I think as an AMD person if I talk about them They load me into a cannon and shoot me into the Sun cool so I can't I can't talk about like stuff that I Can't talk about like stuff that like AMD's customers did or things like that But we'll tiptoe through this yeah, but I'm sure well. I'm sure we'll make our way through the show I mean it wouldn't be when show if there wasn't an awkward moment or somebody getting fired into the Sun or whatever the case All right Why isn't AMD in here? I guess they provided us with with one one Scott Watson to to keep us company today So why don't we jump into? Why don't we just jump right into something that you can talk about a little bit so YouTube has updated their partner program Nowadays they actually the original article here is over from tech crunch calm. I'm gonna go ahead and pull that up for you guys and This is kind of crazy because I've been playing the YouTube game Long enough that I actually do remember a time when YouTube invited you specifically like they would email you out of the blue and Invite you to their partner program And it wasn't until quite a bit later that they opened it up for people to be able to apply And then it wasn't until quite a bit later after that that they that they changed It was it was kind of a quiet rollout Do you remember this hmm? We're all of a sudden like the random video of like somebody's cat getting picked up by an eagle or whatever Would have an ad on it well that is pretty cool if a cat got picked up by any I think the one I was thinking of was actually a kid getting picked up by an eagle And then it's cool, but also interesting Yeah So basically this is all in response to a big controversy that's actually been going on in the YouTube space Over the last little while and I'm gonna get someone to maybe hey Max Is someone in the warehouse? No, okay Um so basically it's been oh yes Jake perfect Can you move the foil so that it's not hanging into the top right of the frame there? Beautiful, thank you, okay Never mind. We're good carry on so basically this has been part of a big controversy That's been going on right now on YouTube have you been paying attention to this little bit. Yeah, okay, so long story short for those of you who haven't been in the loop is YouTube Google is getting their advertisers pulled So whether the piece of content is one about you know Hating a particular ethnicity of people or about how this person is is so wrong They should be just put up against a wall and shot or whatever the controversial piece of content is YouTube has been scaling back on delivering ads on that content in response to very large multinational brands Pulling their advertising dollars when they realized that their ad was being shown on this type of content I mean, maybe this is something you can comment on a little bit I mean do you imagine from an AMD perspective that that might be a reasonable reaction? I mean yeah, you don't want to see your brand next to some hateful Brand or something like that. I mean, that's terrible. Okay, but not everybody feels that way So we got a lot of feedback from our audience when we sided with the big brands the big evil brand saying that That that wouldn't feel inappropriate to them, and they kind of went well an eyeball is an eyeball What difference does it make why does that matter wow? Well, I mean I mean first of all of course just from a very businessy perspective You don't want to be associated with hateful things as a brand. It's not good marketing right and and secondly and maybe not secondly Maybe this should always be first, but there's just the ethical issue of sponsoring and giving money to that kind of thing right That's no good, and this is this is not that different from like if you run a forum you guys run a forum Yeah, you get people who come in and post things You know they'll post links to terrible stuff, so we've I've got a lot of people who are like So we've I remember you know running the tech report We've imposed limits on who can post what when so that we kind of you get to know who somebody is Give them a little bit of time So they don't just come in and put junk in right a lot of it's just signaled a noise ratio right you want to improve that so Here's the thing The main argument that we heard back from our viewers was well The viewer should know the difference between the ad running in front of the video and the content that they're watching Do you agree? I don't I don't think The viewer definitely should know right it's good for viewers to be smart, but at the same time At the same time no, I mean you don't want to be associated with that and they had to take some basic Scent common sense steps, and it seems like that this type of threshold a relatively small number of views is a common sense Step to me right okay. Yeah, so that's fair so anyway Basically in response to this YouTube is updating the partner program So this is part of the measures that they're taking to be clear some of which I believe have been too far There's been content that has had the advertising pulled from it that Remember this could be the you know coming from from where you come from as a as a website owner in the past who relied on advertising revenue can you imagine if you were falsely flagged as a as a hate website and Google pulled your adsense or or whatever whatever partners you were working with just pulled the money with no Negotiation no warning no nothing. I mean what would that mean for you? Yeah, no it stinks right and I actually don't have to imagine too much because we used to have that problem where people would post Some random link in the forums and Google would come in and say you guys are no good And they pull your ads for a while and it and you know there aren't a lot of people working behind those algorithms So it takes a while to get reinstated right and so the revenue is gone until you can get them to bring it back And now he works at AMD so that should give you some idea what happens you could end up working at AMD so So so basically though in in it Where was I going with this right so that sucks? But the reality of it is is there's like however many hundreds of thousands of you know hours of footage uploaded to YouTube every you know minute or whatever those numbers work out to and the reality of it is they can't go through everything and When they're trying to respond to a bunch of brands pulling their funding They have to over respond and then tweak the algorithm till to whitelist things back in the good news though If you're a content creator, and you're out there is that you can appeal these strikes and From what I know about how YouTube's algorithmic machine learning works behind the scenes My understanding and I've I've heard of this happening, but I've never personally witnessed it But I've heard from creators who have heard from creators that for things like fair use for example if you're getting frequently flagged by algorithmic or automated Copyright strikes and you appeal them many many times It learns it kind of learns who the baddens and the good ones are so it would be a good idea Probably to appeal any kinds of strikes that you've received or any demonetization One inconvenient thing is that we had to manually go through our videos and see which ones were demonetized it just Happened I mean would it would an email summary have killed you YouTube Hey, by the way we turned off all the money On these videos, thanks guys. Thanks guys so effective immediately YouTube will not allow ads on channels that have fewer than 10,000 lifetime views across all the videos on that channel to be clear. This is a very low threshold you only need like One video to go Nano viral in order to get 10,000 views So what this pretty much means though is that most videos that are obscure and offensive enough? To never really find much of an audience have no chance of having an advertiser placement on it It's also from just this isn't in my notes, but purely from my perspective This is great because why are why are those guys? Getting ad inventory when established channels like us still don't have a hundred percent fill rates I don't really understand that I mean clearly someone who's getting 42 views per video This is not a source of revenue for them anyway Why are you putting an ad in front of the viewer? Potentially hampering that person's ability to grow on the platform and then not serving the ad to someone who actually is relying on the platform instead There is something to be said for that and remember guys we're talking 10,000 views Nobody is thinking about going youtuber full-time before they have 10,000 views, so I don't see this being Significantly harmful to guys that are just starting out, so that's my kind of two cents on that Oh, this is interesting It's also intended to block channels that steal content from other sources and prevent them from deriving revenue from the platform That's actually something we've seen a lot. Yeah, it's a big problem. Yeah I just these channels will pop up overnight, and they'll have 200 of our videos ripped and just retitled so that they look a little bit different and Because our partner agreement doesn't allow us to automatically See those and get like a report for them. They just kind of sit there until one of our viewers Contacts us and lets us know that they're there, and then we can get them ripped down, but in the meantime They're potentially collecting adsense checks, and they can't be very big ones But still it's ridiculous Well involving this this type of threshold 10,000 views Also rules out a bunch of stuff right yep And then once you want something becomes over that it's possible that Google could get human editors involved to vets and things Right to make sure they're okay, but they don't this filters out a lot of noise They don't have to think about it if it's a really really small number of views All right wow we've got a lot of stuff. That's gonna be kind of hard for you to comment on I didn't realize it was gonna be quite so bad. Yeah, the list is interesting we could try though. It's all good We could try we're just gonna this is gonna listen the entire rest of the WAN show is gonna be the What can Scott say? Versus what can he not say so why don't we jump into Xbox project Scorpio? So the source here is Euro gamer. Let's go ahead and pull that up But basically there's specs there's games. There's VR peripherals backwards compatibility basically Everything that these guys know about project Scorpio at this time I'm gonna go ahead and drop that link in the twitch chat if you guys want to get the more in-depth version of it later, but oh No, I'm not going to be able to do that long story But it'll be in the document on the forum a little bit later But in a nutshell project Scorpio is the much rumored mid-generation upgrade to the Xbox one So what that means as a mid-generation upgrade is that all the games and peripherals that run on the Xbox one today? Like oh for example. Oh, oh the connect Exciting exciting I could feel excitement Oh Will work on the new system anyway, so other than VR games there won't be any project Scorpio Exclusives so here's what we know so far spec wise AMD got yet another design win because it wouldn't be much of a mid cycle upgrade If it wasn't you know using pretty much the same processor, so it'll have eight custom AMD cores clocked at 2.3. Gigahertz 326 gigabytes per second of memory bandwidth and 1172 megahertz GPU with 40 customized compute units, so Let's ignore customization. What would 40 compute units kind of look like on the desktop on your side, okay? So an rx480 is 36 compute units, okay? So this is this is a little bit bigger than an rx480 is a GPU okay and rx480 powers a pretty darn good gaming experience at 1080 to 1440 high details, and you can even go 4k if you want to talk about like eSports type titles like yeah No, no, I wasn't gonna say you know For honor or whatever right now Deus Ex may have kind of divided, but yeah, but yeah some of those easier ones. Yeah So it's got 12 gigs of gddr5 memory. Oh wow that's quite a lot more than before isn't it? Yeah, and you know I'm just happy to see this this is looking more like kind of a high-end PC Right here the history here is we can add this gap like Xbox 360 is like seven eight years between Xbox 360 and Xbox one Yeah, and they came out with it and before Before like in the past like when the 360 came out it really rivaled the high-end PC Yeah, Xbox one ps3 to actually they did more than rival that thing was incredible in fact as an old PC guy the whole thing you always hear is the PC is gonna die because the new consoles There's always a pan always dying There's no panic around the Xbox one of PlayStation 4 when they first came out because they were kind of low in mid-range Yeah, and it's kind of interesting now We're seeing the re-upping more quickly to kind of get that additional power back because of things like VR happening right and things like that So I'm just happy to see a high-end spec on the new console Well, it's interesting you bring that up because when the Xbox one and the PlayStation 4 launched We did a piece comparing in every cross-platform like three-way cross-platform game We could get our hands on so stuff like I think it was black flag Was the Assassin's Creed that launched with those is that right that seem right yeah that seems black flag I think there was there was a cod of some sort or a battlefield of some sort I can't remember whatever it was anyway what we did was we we captured a Whack ton of in-game cinematics cutscenes Engine rendered rendered cutscenes right we captured a bunch of gameplay And we really looked close at what we were getting in terms of finished image quality You know after weird upscaling tricks and and all that kind of stuff And we're not talking like we we took the still grabs And we put them in Photoshop and overlay to find the differences But we were looking to kind of get pretty darn close and what we discovered was that to build a PC Bearing in mind you got to buy a case and you got to buy a power supply and all that you know a storage device all That boring stuff that isn't a CPU and a GPU Ram to a lesser extent We found that we had to spend about 500 bucks to get pretty Equivalent or 400 bucks to get pretty equivalent to those yeah But that was about it as soon as you stepped up past that I think we ended up using a 260x Was what we ended up putting in our equivalent PC system right whereas nowadays if we're talking about a GPU in there that Speculatively obviously all Scott can talk about is how many compute units and what clock speed a 480 is because That's why he's here to talk to me right now. That's all we can talk about Excuse me But what we can say is that we just did a where is it? Oh, it looks like we've moved it, but we filmed a PC build guide earlier this week even that was targeting about $1,000 and Contained an rx-480 yeah just to give a better idea of what class of computer This new Xbox might look comparable to It's also going to have 4k ultra HD blu-ray disk support if you still watch movies off of physical media It'll support native 4k gaming although again I wouldn't set my expectations too incredibly high and Scott doesn't have to say anything but too incredibly high with respect to You know what kind of games at what kind of detail levels you're going to be running at full native 4k? And it's going to have support for VR which you know maybe you can talk a little bit about VR So the big news recently was that PS VR has sold how many more times more units than all the PC headsets combined? Yeah, was it 4x or more something like that. I can't remember. I'm going to go look it up, but How how's that going because there's speaking of PC being dead. There's an awful lot of VR is dead What's AMD's perception of that? I don't know about the whole company's perception, but I'll give you mine Okay, I have both the Vive and the Rift and I've been enjoying you're such a nerd Yeah I am I am and I'm enjoying and I kind of been a little bit of a riff fanboy because I like the tracking the inside Out tracking on the the Rift and I like the rooms or the sorry the vives fanboy like the inside out tracking on the vibe I like the room scale. Yeah, I love the room. I think it's the right way to go finally oculus though came out with touch They've got experimental room scale They're doing the right things But the most important development in VR to me in the past while is the release of a game that oculus has now as a Pack in with for free with the touch and that's Robo recall They it's one of these that they funded the development right that sweet sweet Facebook money They funded the development of a game that epic build for them right right and Robo recall is The best VR titled by a long shot in my view. I've been playing this every day Multiple times it's like my little workout every day because it is so so good. It is the feel it's a shooter I'm a shooter fan love Borderlands love that stuff the feel they got it right so the touch feel the shooter fantastic the action is really great and I think people who put on a rift and play that game will spend money It will open up wallets is one of those game sell systems right right and and that is a huge thing and it's unfortunate Because I haven't heard enough buzz around this game right if you have the chance try it I will if you're skeptic about VR, and you go try that I think it will be converted and it's funny It's software that turns out to be the thing that needed to happen in order to make the hardware sell But that's you know we've seen it millions of times in the past with new platforms Yeah on the subject of games selling selling systems Steam os That's a perfect example of how you can have a cool idea and even more than a cool idea Steam os actually made its way to the market as a finished product not just as a software product But you could actually buy a steam os gaming console we reviewed one the problem was that valve Bless their their their open you know open philosophy didn't create a Killer title to push that console out into the market And it's pretty I haven't heard a thing about steam os pretty much since I published my thing declaring that it was dead When it launched right? so Okay, so you think we need more games And that's why AMD is still really focused on VR VR VR In like the slides that we didn't look at today and all that kind of stuff I mean VR is a focus if you're an enthusiast for this stuff if you're into it And you've been playing with things then you know it's still very exciting right and If the games are there, and it's exciting eventually I think People will buy it the other thing that's happening that needs to continue happening is the price has to come down right right the psvr is cheaper Yeah, that's probably one of the reasons they sold a lot, so I've got those numbers They confirmed in I think it was it looks like February that they had sold almost a million psvr units so far And that was a little under double the reported numbers for the rift and the vibe as of the end of 2016 so that's all we Oh Wait, yeah, no no okay, so it depends on how we're calculating HTC would only confirm they've sold more than a hundred and forty thousand while super data research estimated four hundred and twenty thousand vibes So it really depends how we're calculating so it's somewhere between triple to just under double Compared to those guys and at four hundred dollars That makes sense given that it's what six hundred for the vibe and then? And is rift still six hundred plus touch the rift with touch went to five ninety eight Did you go to five ninety but the vibe I think is still seven ninety nine You know what I I live in Canada and our currency is rupees right so when I bought mine It was like 950 dollars or nine hundred dollars or something like that so it's it's hard for me to it's hard for me to comment on On on pricing sometimes. I just lose track, but I can look that up anyway, so cool, so Xbox project Scorpio VR 4k much faster looking more like a like a you know eight ninety nine thousand dollar PC than a three ninety nine four ninety nine PC and What's cool is that developers won't necessarily have to use the extra processing power of project Scorpio to hit 4k They could just channel that towards a better looking 1080p experience instead Which is what if anyone's asking me I would probably Strongly recommend because if you've seen My recent video before it got pulled down due to a copyright claim against it Which I still might dispute because it was definitely fair use like definitely fair use of that footage from the movie But if you did see I am really not that sold on 4k and what kind of a difference it makes at a living room distance How about you I bought a new as I was a TV died Scott not as AMD okay in the living room my TV died not long ago, okay, and it was like upgrade opportunity here I got to get a new TV He's dead and I looked around a little and you can look up online have you seen the little calculators? Yeah, how close to a TV you have to sit to notice the different resolutions And like how large that TV then has to be and it's like you'd have to have a chair Like four feet from your TV in the middle of your living room To notice 4k even with the pretty large panel and I went out and I bought Recently a 1080p panel instead really I did you bought a 1080p TV I'm gonna regret it because of HDR and OLED and all that yeah Except I don't regret it in the sense that my TV budget can go to that later But there was no point in buying 4k for the distance that my couch is from my screen for the size of screen I had Yeah, no, and I believe in better pixels. I like high refresh. I like high dynamic range I like high color gamut more than I want more pixels for a display that sits across the room Okay, now tell me this Maybe you don't know anything which would probably be optimal because I'd love for you to be able to speculate Okay, are we ever going to get a gaming TV? So okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna add more to my question, okay, okay, because we've got technologies like we've got Amazingly fast processors now that are that are cheap enough that you can put them in a TV without Killing the bomb cost right not that those didn't exist before and they couldn't have done that years ago And there's no reason for the menu navigation to have been clunky anyway So we've got lightning fast processors We've got OLED panels that are theoretically capable of refresh rates higher than 60 Hertz Yeah, for sure. We've got interfaces that are both Widely available well established and also cheap to implement like DisplayPort When are we going to get a gaming TV a proper one? Yeah, I don't know the answer right I look at that's good I wish I wish I can tell you that one thing that we've done this kind of interesting Recently is extend free sync support to HDMI Yeah, and so the consumer electronics folks they do HDMI is their format right? But variable refresh displays are a very very nice thing to have for gaming and so there's now the possibility at least of people building around that That's all we're gonna get I I don't I haven't tracked that and it's Yeah, I love these I'd love to give you good news. I go and check I could talk to our display guys But I don't know what's happening. Okay, so true like you know 144 165 Hertz display with low persistence OLED gaming TV what kind of a premium would you pay for that me? Oh, it would be a ridiculous premium right for Maybe I don't know if I'm if I mean if I'm in the I mean you're talking about an expensive TV already Yeah, we're talking feature identity right but but I mean that Because it's so rare it's so rare right TVs often have high latency They know like a game mode button, and you press it nothing happens. It doesn't even LG is notorious for this I mean I love LG I really do got got got friends over at LG, but holy crap your gaming TV is so expensive Holy crap your game mode doesn't work and like this this is intentional They know I mean it's not like they don't know they have the tools to measure this stuff They know they were like well. We didn't want to compromise on the image quality. Well, then don't have a game mode Don't lie to me Just tell me it's bad for games but Anyway, yeah somebody somebody's gonna do it right I mean sure though these things are happening. I mean 8k and Hopefully high refresh high color gamut OLEDs all these texts are gonna be out there It's it's just like you say it's a small step from those Technologies which are capable of high speed yeah refresh right it's a small step from that to Having and maybe it's not even fast processing Maybe it's just turn off the post processing and let my input device Send something out this tone map for the display right right we're working on that with a thing called FreeSync 2 with HDR Where it's like okay? We'll tone map to your display it comes right out. It's a low latency It's for PC monitors primarily right but but the concept is simple right the GPU can know and do the right thing and then the pictures Right out so you don't have that post processor in the way Yeah, I would absolutely I would just absolutely love to have that you know what else I'd have I'd absolutely love to have A show where we don't have to have sponsors, but you know how it is we got to pay the bills somehow So I'm just gonna go ahead and find my notes damn I had one more thing I wanted to talk about about the whole TV thing before I transitioned into this it was something to do with Shoot I was gonna. I was gonna kind of jump in it was directly related to what you were saying at the beginning of that bit You do remember what that was by any chance? I don't remember what you were thinking Bloody hell I'm doomed doomed doomed to forever not remember what I was gonna say that's okay Anyway our first sponsor of the day is moss products these guys have all kinds of great stuff and They've got lifetime warranties to boot on all of their cables, so I've actually got some of their stuff open here They've got lots of you know gorgeous sleeve cables with like reinforced connectors But this is the coolest part not that is actually the spring that they put as a strain relief on the end here So you don't end up with it fraying as it comes out of the connector They've got a whole bunch of other stuff as well Including the moss backpack this guy is pretty cool because it's got like basically like a built-in Charging hub so you just plug in one cord that comes out of this little Zipper doodad right here you plug that in and then it's got additional outlet an additional outlet for your laptop And then it's got a couple USB ports for the devices that are Already sitting in your bag when you come home at the end of the day a wild Luke appears and eats some pizza And these ones might actually be my favorite these are really cool, so these are little They're magnetic so they're kind of hard to get out of the package, but don't worry you only have to do that once So they've got little adhesive stickers that come with them, then you stick them down You know somewhere on your desk or on your nightstand or whatever else and then to make sure that your cables don't fall down to the floor You just stick the connectors to them, and then they're there they're ready for you when you need them I think that's freaking awesome, so you can check them out over at moss organizer.com Slash Linus will have that linked in the video description if you are watching the archive and And that brings us to fresh books fresh books is whether you're running a small like I always say dance studio What's a business you could run out of your garage? yoga studio Okay, very closely related Yeah, microcomputer startup microcom you have that's the other example I'm always job story hang I always use if you have like a small tech a small a small tech shop or whatever the case may be if you're a small business owner, or you are an Entrepreneur or a freelancer fresh books can help you keep track of your time and expenses Invoice your clients much more quickly like it takes like 30 seconds to send off a professional looking invoice And what's cool is that beyond that you can actually? 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All right, so what else we got here today? Oh, this is absolutely killing me that I can't remember what that TV thing that I was trying to remember was I'm Dying here oh Okay, I do that. I did have a question okay, so free sync over HDMI right now free sync support Bye Nick. Thank you for disrupting the show appreciate that yeah so free sync support Doesn't require any special intervention on the display scaler side in a monitor Basically just new scalers are coming with support for the latest Display port or whatever the case may be and like it's just kind of in there Would you expect something like that to happen? naturally on the TV side So there are two different ecosystems there right TVs are consumer electronics Yeah, instead of PC consumer electronics has HDMI PCs have display, but you support it There's a split, but you support free sync over HDMI, so if you're asking about it being natural The the natural thing is for the divide to continue We may maybe we'll find a nice partnership and break that but I don't think it would be natural I think it would take a little bit of effort right I If you're asking the question, that's the answer if there was anything that I could do to make that happen I personally believe quite strongly in the I remember what I was gonna talk about Right, I think they have to do this so if anyone from LG or Samsung or Sharp whatever I don't care just stop physio anybody is watching this Here's why I think they have to do this 4k in the living room is Eagle eyes only need apply I think the benefit for a lot of people considering the difficulty that blu-ray even has DVD still exists And that looks a lot better than DVD the considering that 4k is gonna have a hard time being the selling point that ultimately moves TVs especially because the content is Years and years away in big markets like the United States I mean when are you actually expecting to watch Sunday night football in 4k at 60 frames per second? Yeah, I don't on Come on So we don't need the resolution unless the screen size gets bigger, and I'll get back to that in a minute HDR HDR is another pretty tough Selling point because unless the content is mastered very well The difference side by side is noticeable But the difference just walking into a room and being shown a piece of content and being immersed in a movie That's so much huh, it's tougher. It's a tougher sell Yeah, especially when you consider the fact that a lot of the difference in the way an HDR version of a movie appear a lot a lot of the difference between the HDR version of the movie and the regular blu-ray version of the movie Seems to be in the way that they've mastered it not necessarily just in the extra capabilities that HDR gives you So for example. I mean think about it this way if HDR was really something that You know could could not be captured on a display that can't display HDR when we were filming side by side TVs running HDR non HDR comment and marveling our comment content and Marveling at how the HDR one you know had you know much more natural looking shadows You could see so much more detail in the shadow like you can see that on the screen you kind of go Okay, so some of this is HDR and some of this is enabled by this this wider color and this much much wider contrast capability of the display But some of it is also in the way that they master it And I think right now. I've only seen one movie that just blew me away And that was life of pie and we're a long way away from I think you know every movie in every game having an HDR mode That's really meaningful, so Deus Ex mankind divided is another game that I've played with and without HDR. Yeah, and for me For me Same thing if I looked at them side by side. I'd pick up the HDR when I go that's better If I didn't see them side by side Wouldn't notice I probably wouldn't notice right or like if you asked me which one's HDR. I could probably tell you But I wouldn't sit down in front of some game and sit and play and enjoy a game and go Wow, this is sure enhancing my gaming experience, right? so That leaves us with this with this sort of and this is something the TV industry has struggled with for quite some time How do we drive up ASPs? How do we keep from just being a 399? device commodity commodity device and You can't make them bigger anymore. It's gotten to the point where they are as big as they can Practically be until we're talking about holographic displays in my opinion because they're not Transportable. Yeah. Yeah. No, I see. Yeah, I know what you're saying bring us a gaming display. That's my argument That's it's a good argument I can we talk a little bit about the whole thing though? Cuz I think there's some there's a path to success for some of this Yeah, right. What one of it? It seems like that what the consumer electronics guys are doing with the next generation of stuff is they're packaging up several things together 4k Yeah, high dynamic range. Yeah, which is you know more contrast between light and dark more steps in between Yeah, and then wide color gamut Which is actually in some ways more exciting for me if you've ever like tried to take a picture of the sunset with the digital Camera and you don't get the colors right your color gamut is not wide enough Yeah, and I actually there's a wide gamut camera and display on the iPhone 7 My son has a 1 plus 3 we go out and we both take pictures the same sunset Well, why gamut is way better who kind of joke around about it? And that's not even as wide as you can go jokes on you. He paid half as much for his phone. He did and I I like that sunset picture. I don't know if I like it, you know $400, but I like the picture It's true, but but I have seen I think one of the problems we have right now in the ecosystem is Getting the content and the tone mapping to the particular displays and their capabilities all set up So you have this really robust content that takes advantage of all the capabilities of the display and then it's properly mapped to what? The individual displays can do yeah, and it's gonna be really hard to do that It is but these things are being worked out We had a demo that we ran in a couple of our trade show booths There was I think LG where they went and they filmed the video They did the tone mapping for their display and and they're showing this this loop It was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen on an electronic screen was amazing And the potential is there and I think that although I really do have more affinity for HDR and why gamut them for more pixels? I think the the 4k is gonna be part of the package sure when they figure all this stuff out Games though. Can we talk about games? Yeah, let's talk about so so games There's there's sort of a first step and then a second step toward HDR for gaming, right? So the first step is basically this Half-life lost coast well no yeah There's three steps right, but that was internal high dynamic range rendering mapping to a non high dynamic range display Yeah now what we can do now is we have displays that really can show you more range and more contrast and more colors and If you look at like a directx 11 GPU They're they're using 32-bit floating point color format for red green blue alpha Okay, that's a ton of internal precision So all the game developer really has to do is take the beautiful lighting that they have in their engine all the the data They're putting up That's high fidelity and tone map to the capability of the display pop properly sure and you should get a nice result Right, but that that's still we're still working on getting that done but but some of that some of what happens when you do that is you may be revealing like the Limitations of the source textures and content right interesting So in the long run the entire toolchain for the game developer from when they're building their textures Through the shaders that they're using to render and all their yeah Everything out to the display needs to be in to end high dynamic range high color game and all of that and and that's a Longer road it takes what three four years to build a triple-a game and the tools have to change first So you're talking something kind of along the lines of how the the the Hollywood makeup industry got revitalized by the move to HD How in an SD? Basically effects were getting kind of good enough, and you could you know kind of fudge it well enough, right? But then as soon as we went HD all these imperfections were Totally visible and for a period anyway Yeah, you had to go back to real props real makeup, and you know maybe we're seeing I mean you saw you saw I mean Spoiler alert I guess rogue one if you haven't seen it So there you go, but I mean you saw Leia at the end right yeah, and the uncanny value But it looked pretty pretty Close they get maybe they're kind of starting to come back up toward the other side of the valley Little bit a little creepy. It's still freaked me out I look like a sex doll like you know how they're made with these super realistic features, and they're just like I Feel like the different parts of her face at the end didn't move together in the right way it can anyway But yeah the the source content also has to get better in the long Yeah for HDR gaming to like it can be good now. Yeah, the point is every part of the chain. Yeah, right, okay? All right, so I can't ignore this any longer The original article let's go with the let's go with the one from an on tech Nvidia announces the Titan XP Isn't that like an old story fully enabled GP 102 for? $1,200 so basically they released the 1080 Ti crapped on the owners of the Titan XP Which is what we were calling the new Titan X, but they never called it that Then like a week or two later however long it maybe it's more than that time flies Anyway a few weeks later. They're they're crapping on people who are like yes the 1080 Ti is the fastest card on the market and Now they're releasing a new card and crapping on me at the same time Because I'm gonna. I'm I don't know what to call this thing I've been running around calling the the second coming of the Titan X the Titan XP since it launched Because it was the Titan XP for Pascal and now they have a Titan XP So there's really only one solution. This will be the Titan XP P For the Titan XP P if you'd prefer GPU performance compared to the Maxwell Titan X why are they why are we even reporting on this? What don't ask me dude is but improved by 84% Why would we even compare to low like them what okay anyway? Compared to the 1080 Ti 13% more memory bandwidth 7% more shader texture geometry throughput and 9% more rot throughput And it costs about what about 9% more Geometry throughput and 9% more rot throughput and it costs about double I guess so there you go Titans are still expensive And they're still really fast Apple Rumored to begin making their own GPUs so the original article here is from wired and this is potentially Pretty freaking interesting Development because it is absolutely no secret that Apple believes in building its own IP wherever Possible, and I'm not talking one nine two dot one six eight dot something I'm talking intellectual property, and they basically want to own pretty much anything that's important to them and power consumption and performance of their biggest money-making device the iPhone is Definitely something that is important to them so they have announced sorry did I say rumor sorry they have announced They will no longer be using their longtime GPU partner Imagination for new products 15 to 24 months from now so by that time we're probably talking What would that be iPhone 8s? Yeah, I guess yeah They are replacing Their GPU with a separate independent graphics design built in house Imagine doubts that Apple will be able to make their own GPUs without Violate our imagination excuse me without violating their patents intellectual property and confidential information so this looks like it might not be an entirely clean breakup and AMD has certainly got a fair amount of experience with you know other companies running around trying to make GPUs and sometimes probably not even Intentionally infringing on patents because whether your name is AMD or Radeon Technologies Group. I'm sorry Radeon Technologies Group It's all part of the same thing dude So whether your name is AMD or whether your name is Nvidia or even Intel you own a lot a lot of freaking IP when it comes to graphics technology, and it has gotten to the point where even if you had an unlimited amount of money and unlimited engineers and a fab it would be pretty difficult to run out and Compete with the RX 480 from the ground up would you agree with that statement? Yeah? Yeah? No? It's a tough thing to do But yeah, Apple has all the money, but even with all the money Well, but you know what look at what they did on the CPU side. That's true right I mean their CPU design team produced some pretty amazing low-power CPU cores with really nice performance And this is sort of the next step in that progression in a way They had more of a good relationship with ARM they continued to license their instruction set This is removing away from your stuff entirely That's this is a big middle finger 15 to 24 months before they're even ready to ship anything But it's not the same with graphics because with graphics you use an API to get to the hardware right so you don't have a Necessarily a low-level instruction set that you're using you're using opengl or metal or Vulkan or whatever it is so so metal Well, that's definitely Apple's low-level API right? So I can see how this makes sense and you know they build some really great stuff I had to respect the hardware they build so I can see them doing this and making it work very Interesting so some of the some of the questions brought up in the article is well Why would Apple need to make their own GPU and the answer is the lagging behind? Competitors in GPU heavy tasks such as their digital assistant machine learning and augmented and virtual reality So imagination technologies stock has crashed Since the announcement since about half of the company's annual revenue came from Apple I Mean this has been rumored forever. Do you see Apple pulling this on? The on a MacBook. I mean this isn't a MacBook. It's a laptop. It's for illustrative purposes only But do you see Apple trying to pull this on the MacBook? It's been rumored forever that they want to get Intel out of there And I mean I would I would assume it's not that far off For if they're going to replace x86 with their own arm based CPUs that they might also just go okay. Yeah, well screw it everything's now everything's an iPad with the keyboard and now so You know let's throw our Apple GPU in here Yeah, I had no idea what they're gonna do right people have been talking about them going to arm for the CPUs forever And they seem to have never done that you know so if you keep predicting that maybe at some point you get to be right But but but I mean I don't know I don't know this this seems like they get to do what they want they make great stuff and Other than that man, I can't speculate. I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep predicting that they're gonna bring back a desktop that you can actually upgrade Until it happens. What do you think that is my prediction gonna work? I don't know I like desktops that you can upgrade build my own system though So probably not the target market there on the subject of upgrading a Mac desktop Nvidia to release Pascal drivers for Mac OS which is a Surprising announcement since Apple's desktops since 2013 have been AMD fire Pro exclusive or I guess you guys call those Radion Pro yeah, Radion Pro. Thank you anyway, but AMD exclusive since launch and that used kind of a Weird format for the card that you weren't just gonna be able to like grab some GPU out of a laptop and shunk it in there And then on the laptop side they've been AMD exclusive for How long now I don't know. I don't know honestly wasn't it ever since you 8600 GT like fell apart I'm really not sure I think it was our 9600 maybe it was back in that era Yeah, it's been a long. It's been a long time so Given that you you can't you can't put an Nvidia card in a Mac This is a weird announcement, but it might be cool for certain folks So who are these drivers for within the Mac community? There's a small but vocal user group based around unsupported external GPUs So while Mac OS doesn't support external GPUs it is Possible to use Macs with Thunderbolt eGFX with a Thunderbolt eGFX chassis It's also possible though not supported and Definitely against the terms of service of OS 10 to install Mac OS on a custom-built PC It's called hackintoshing. We've done a video on it in the past so Wow could this be the starts of some kind of a some kind of a push from? Nvidia to encourage Apple to consider their GPUs in the future Is it just a is it just a big middle finger to Apple? For not including not giving a single GPU to a single GPU For not including not giving users the capability to install their GPUs Is it a way of supporting the hackintosh community like Without overtly saying you know go buy a hackintosh and put our GPU in it. They just kind of quietly release a driver You know now that I think about it if I had to guess I'd say it's probably the big middle finger I'm sure you can speak to this at least it's a fair bit of work to develop a driver Yes, there you go. I guess yes, that's my that's my comment, so this driver Probably is if you had to guess is probably a political statement more than a a Practical investment into selling GPUs to the handful of people running external PCIe boxes And I can't comment on They put me in a cannon shoot me into the Sun if I talk about that All right um Let's see what else we've got here actually we've talked about a lot of the a lot of the really big stuff oh No, this is pretty big okay, so Google and Facebook Around the time that one mr.. Donald J Trump was elected president of the free United States of America Google and Facebook were both engaged in a very earnest discussion industrywide about fake Articles that were Running around claiming to be news and to be clear I'm not I'm I'm just staying out of it today anyway I'm staying out of it today, and I will say this that both sides right and left participated in the whole fake news echo chamber Nonsense, okay, there's no such thing and this is this is probably one of the closest things to to an impartial You know journalistic approach to writing anything that I've ever had the pleasure of you know actually engaging with and would you agree that it is impossible to have zero bias Yeah, yeah, and and that's why this whole discussion seems weird to me right and and I I never heard of fake news Until after the election Right and then all of a sudden it was a thing that we were all gonna fix like like if you solved that problem Then maybe if you didn't like the election outcome then then that would fix it and it seems like you have you like Look, I don't I didn't like either one of our choices in the last election Yeah, but have you seen Hillary Clinton speak because I don't think the problem with her candidacy was fake Like it might have been the charisma black hole Just saying I'm Canadian I didn't even have to pretend to make a choice so it's I didn't really all down there. You know do an American It was not not a happy thing to go into that voting booth Let me tell you but but I this this doesn't seem like a fix or anything But you know what I agree with I agree with your with your observation in that I had heard of the whole fake news thing But I hadn't seen Hillary Clinton specifically complain about it and say it is a problem We need to solve until after the results came in and if you really felt that way about it Then it should have been the kind of thing that you were talking about In earnest it might have been mentioned not sure but it should have been talked about in earnest before the results And part of that could have just been hubris You know it could have just been you know the assumption that none of this even is Important compared to other things because this is a the elections a foregone conclusion anyway But it still comes across a little insincere when you complain about it after the fact so anyway I I do agree that something needs to be done, but I don't know if our Benevolent overlords at Google and Facebook are necessarily the ones that I would choose But like it or not they are the gatekeepers to the information that a huge child huge chunk of the world not just America needs and Like it or not whether they like it or not they are in this position where they've Determined that they have a responsibility to filter or otherwise Protect people from fake news so the original article here for the Google bit and This is off ours technica.com. I love this site is Google expands their automatic fact-check insertion into search results Though you'll want to phrase your searches very carefully to trigger it the article warns us so basically They've officially rolled out an automatic fact-check tag program on their search pages so small snippets will display information about the claim made by a particular page and Who made the claim as well as the results of fact-checking on the highlighted claim? You will only see this if you specifically type in an oft repeated claim for example if you search for the phrase how many undocumented migrant immigrants are in the United States Normal search results appear with a mix of answers and data points, but specifically searching 34 million undocumented immigrants will bring up a fact-check box that credits President Donald Trump with the claim along with a direct link to PolitiFact's pants on fire fact-checked rating So the fact checks to be clear are not performed by Google which absolves Google of responsibility Sort of except that they're also presenting this as fact check which has a pretty specific meaning in the dictionary And they're using trusted publishers and fact-checkers using an open system to mark claims as having been checked and the service has been rolled out worldwide Any thoughts so a couple of them we just sort of established I think that we kind of agreed that it's very hard not to be biased PolitiFact maybe falls into that category too I'm not sure that they're always a great source I think that they may have sometimes their own political agenda and so putting them out there as an authority I don't know and another thing about this that is interesting to me and I'd be interested to hear what you think I think one of the things that one of the things that has happened with Google and Facebook being these sort of gatekeepers To the internet is that it has become difficult for content creators to make money off of Web publishing and things like this which is why now we have the New York Times running clickbait headlines Yeah, which is it's a crazy media world now, right? It's crazy and So I think Google and Facebook bear some responsibility for the the situation as it now exists because They seem to take a lot of that money instead of the creators. I see that's an interesting take and I think that the reason that we have a lot of kind of poor reporting and like bad vetting of facts is because Those institutions that used to do a good job are a lot more Those institutions that used to do a good job are a lot poorer than they used to be That's interesting. So so Facebook has kind of a or Google has something of a moral responsibility to deal with the mess that they've made where they've created an environment in which Well-funded well-staffed publications were able to make money online and publish that information and actually get the click through because through your Facebook feed or through a google search with just like the answer like you don't even have to click through to wikipedia, right? To get an answer to a google search these days So you think they bear like a like a moral Responsibility to deal with this to an extent to an extent and I think maybe the part of the answer is Um view con and you guys deal with this with them in a more positive way but view content creators as partners who you value And find a way that you partner with them where they can be solvent doing what they do, right? Right and and in some cases that means publications that have Large staffs of reporters and fact checkers who do the right thing instead of you know, the buzzfeeds of the world or whatever Right, right not that we're slinging any mud at buzzfeed. There's a place for buzzfeed too at the bottom of the ocean There's no mud at the bottom of the ocean we can't sling mud there there you go, well there's lots of mud there but anyway Okay. Now let's talk about facebook's approach. So facebook original article here is from business insider Let's go ahead and pull that up Speaking of not generating click through for business insider. So like I said, we will have links to go read the full article Anyway, here's the here's the summary. Don't have to click on Don't have to click on um, basically The social network is adding a box to the top of its news feed for users in 14 countries that offers to provide tips On spotting fake news if the user decides to click on it They're taken to facebook's help center where it provides 10 helpful tips for spotting fake news What they've said? Well, and you know, you can take this with a grain of salt is that it is not a permanent addition to facebook It'll only be there for a few days They said in a blog post But they are working on more ways to flag to users that a post may be false For example by making it easier for the community to report misleading content So they're under particular pressure to deal with fake news in europe this week. Germany approved a bill to fine social networks up to 50 million euro if they don't remove fake news quickly enough So, uh that'll motivate the engineers to uh Get on that fake news removal. But again like putting facebook in charge of it Putting the community in charge of it. The community is the problem Where do you think fake news comes from? Um people creating it people creating it and then people sharing it and liking it and Being like oh wow, this is amazing. I can't believe this herbal supplement can change my life in just you know, four days um That's that's my voice of people who believe fake news. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I believe it Wow, this steroid cream I can gain 18 pounds of pure muscle in just a week Um, i'm pretty sure that's what they all sound like So I think I like a help center with tips for spotting fake news better than I like a community um, like a community run thing because that just seems like it's going to turn into like A war between r slash the donald and r slash most of the rest of reddit But Um, good luck with that and I hope you avoid that 50 million euro fine Yeah, I mean, I don't know you gotta be two minds about this because if there's something out there that's really awful fake dumb and people are sharing it Maybe they should do something about it. But where do you draw the line? Where do you decide? Right and do you trust do you trust one of these big companies? Uh to make that call for you and another another where is the line moment is um, you know is is it Is facebook really responsible for it if that is genuine user created content? I don't know. Um There there's there's certainly okay in my mind. They are certainly responsible for it if this is like Something that is pretending to be fake news But is actually sponsored content where they're making money by disseminating false information That is a fairly obvious one From from my standpoint and i'm not just talking like a link to someone's to a to a website where it's so you know the link to uh ht htc uh vive.com where it says we make the greatest vr headset of all time Um where it's obviously a store i'm talking the ones where it appears to be an article or a testimonial um, my wife actually recently met someone who worked as an actress to do fake testimonials So she would put on a lab coat and she'd talk about you know, my patients experience, you know An improvement in their symptoms in 92 percent of cases on this drug Hmm and and that's like it's this shady kind of underground acting industry Right and you know there where facebook is actually making money off of this information being spread there. There's a clear responsibility to remove it but something user generated is is really a fine line and i'm sure twitch chat is absolutely full of free speech stuff But what you have to understand is that the right to free speech does not Cover posting on a private platform You are not entitled to say anything you want anywhere you want without being given the boot What you are entitled to do is criticize your government without being imprisoned. Um, it doesn't cover certain stuff um, so to just to be clear free speech is not just like uh, you know, A carte blanche to say i'm not going to say it because the one time I said I said we can't say this Naturally clips of me saying it. We're all over the internet the next day with the cut off the beginning part, but um Yeah, it is not actually a license to say anything you want on the linus tech tips forum for example We can edit your post we can delete your post we can nuke your account That's our right so There you go Spoken like somebody who's moderated a forum for a while Oh, yeah Our google adsense was turned off permanently like two years ago because there was a post your wallpaper Thread that ended up with a bunch of porn in it It's like you post your wallpapers within reason smart guys and gals Anyway, that's pretty much it for me. I don't have much else in the dock here that I feel like I need to cover. Um, Oh, we've got people asking you to talk about vega Okay So see you got you got three minutes riff on vega Can you tell them anything they don't already know and aren't already really excited about? It depends on what they know. I mean they sat here for over an hour watching us talk We gotta reward them somehow look at the think of the people vegas returned to high-end gpus. Oh, we know that yes. Yes. Yes So Biggest architectural change in the last five years now, we know that too. Yeah. Yeah, okay So what are you looking for? I want to know if nvidia is gonna get knocked down a peg Well, that's the plan Okay, but but you know, I'm not gonna say that Uh, I can't tell you anything Uh too detailed at this point in time. I'm sorry. It's not coming. Tell me this Yeah, can you not tell us anything because you don't know? Or because you just can't tell us Some of some of each right some of so, you know things. I know things I know some things. Yeah All right. Well, thanks for uh, oh thanks for asking me to talk about vegas All right. Well, thanks for uh, oh, thanks for watching guys Uh, we're gonna say say goodbye for this week special Thanks to scott for flying all the way out here from tim buck too because he doesn't actually work out of amd's headquarters and uh joining us here today and uh Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. We'll see you again next week. Same bat time same bat channel So many of our viewers don't get that reference Yeah, I only get it because my mom loved the show and we had like recorded vhs's that I would watch as a kid like it's Sort of before my time too. Yeah, as you said that's that's I I I know about it, but I don't know That show was over by the time I was in reruns. Yeah When I was a kid running running in the 70s, so it was definitely definitely before my time