 I feel like we're starting. We're starting. Welcome to the live stream everyone. We have a special guest tonight. This is Josh from Fractal Design. Josh, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself that they can't tell just from looking at you. Like the fact that you're some kind of gigantic monster person. The fact that I'm incredibly awesome. I mean I think that's a given. So yeah, I am the VP of Marketing for North America for Fractal Design. And I guess prior to that, I was a boutique system builder. So I know a few things about computer cases and stuff like that. But it's all up in the air. I've bored you off already, huh? No, no. It's my notebook. No longer has a picture on the screen. So maybe you could actually help me with some diagnostic diagnostic testing procedures. Let's... Did you plug it in? Well, it's clearly plugged in. To the wall. It is plugged into the wall. Let's see if Josh can handle this. This will determine whether he's actually worthy to appear on the Linus Tech Tips live stream. Although he's here already anyway. Yeah, exactly. It was a long, long drive. Okay, what do you got? Okay, it looks like it's off. Okay, let's try pressing the button. I'm pressing the power button. We are getting a battery indicator here. Battery indicator. What do you got next? Means you have a battery. That means I have a battery. Okay, you know what? I'm just going to give him the answer because I need to get my notebook up and running. It has an extended battery pack. And the battery pack charges before it actually passes through to the notebook. So I have to plug the notebook in directly. I'm just going to take my stupid battery pack off so that I can actually have my notebook. So Josh, the boutique system builder that you... I mean, you were like an assembly guy there or something, right? Yeah, I was a janitor. I've been a janitor quite a few places, actually. Yeah, so the name of the company was Biohazard Computer Systems. We used to do mainly like really high-end PCs. Hold on, before we go any further, I want to take some Twitter feedback here. And I want to turn this keyboard on first so that it actually works and like does things. Need help with that too? Slick, we got trouble here. Is this plugged in? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe not. Okay, cool. So let's go to Twitter, guys. There we go. Six new interactions. You who have heard of Biohazard. Oh, jeez. It's been a while, man. Come on. I would like you to tune in and let us know your thoughts about Biohazard computers. Remember, you got 140 characters. Tweet at Linus Tech on Twitter. My Twitter sort of tag thing isn't here, but I suspect most of you are probably following already anyway. It would make Josh feel a lot better. What, that you're fancy to use Google really quick? Okay, guys. We want people who have legitimately heard of Biohazard before. That's what we're especially looking for here. That's what you're looking for. I'm just stalling for time while I figure out what this company did. Talk amongst yourselves. We'll give you a topic. Biohazard go. Ah, yes. There we go. Talk about the 900D tonight, please. That's the first tweet. Yes. There we go. Okay. Are you allowed to talk about competitors' cases on the livestream? Because he had a list of things that we weren't allowed to talk about. Bunnies. Sorry, what? Bunnies. Bunnies. Can't talk about bunnies. Can't talk about bunnies, especially brown ones. Unicorns are okay. Unicorns are okay. Of course, they're competitors' cases. Are you allowed to talk about them? Sure. Sure? Okay. Okay. So he wants us to talk about the 900D. Have you seen the 900D? Have you seen my video about the 900D? The case, yes. Your video, no. Ouch. What do you think? What do you think? Put on your ex-boutique system builder hat rather than your fractal design hat. What do you think? Now, I said I could talk about it. Of course, I'm going to be very politically correct. It's a case that's made out of metal. And, ah, it's a sizable case. I think that they, you know, the biggest thing is people seem to think that a lot of people in the industry don't like each other because somebody's a competitor. But I think you have to have some mutual respect there. You know, it's like they do what they do. They've gotten to the size that they've gotten to because of the fact that they've been able to make good products. So there's respect. Wow, you actually didn't talk about the 900D. I know. Did you see how I just like went all the way around it? Yeah, but see, I was always like that. Yes, if I could, you didn't ask me if I would. Dolphins versus unicorns. You know, I think dolphins are an obvious choice because unlike unicorns, dolphins will actually heal any ailments of the body without harvesting the horn. They cannot shoot rainbows. No, dolphins cannot shoot rainbows, but everyone knows that dolphins, much like a Nyan Cat, can actually trail a rainbow behind them when they swim. You just can't see it because they're in the water. Yeah, but you know, unicorns like Highlander. There's only one. If you've played Red Alert 2, you can also strap lasers to the head of dolphins. That's true. That's true. I mean, the unicorn, by the time the unicorn actually gets to you and impales you in the chest, it doesn't have to touch you. It can shoot the rainbow. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, because what's a rainbow going to do? Like change your sexual orientation? You ever watch Freddie W? Okay, yes. Okay. Okay, alright. So moving on to the next thing. Slick and you are too casual. Go put on a coat. Yeah, no, it's not a dress-up thing. It's a temperature thing. Yeah, it's actually pretty chilly in here. I'm wearing like snow boots because it's freezing in here. It's like the tundra of the Great White North up here. Alright, so question. Have you been keeping up with the video card tech? Because I'd love to have you answer some of the questions since you used to know something about computers. I used to. I shifted my focus. So yes, to a certain degree, but you're just going to correct me and make me look like an idiot anyway. Okay, so should I get a 660ti or wait until the 670's price drops or the 700 series comes out? Personally, if you can afford a 670, go for it. If not, grab the 660ti. Be happy with it. I don't think anyone knows when the 700 series is coming out. And if we did know, then we'd probably talk about the mutual respect that we have for competitors. Exactly, I'm just saying. But that's legit though. Just deflect. Deflect, it's all centrifuged. Correction, what's biohazard? Hmm. I don't know. Biohazard, you forgot. Bio-where, we had everything. Yeah, what's bio-where? Oh no. It's like word association now. Okay, this is good. Biohazard's dead. He thought you were still in business. I'm not. Is biohazard still around? No, shouldn't be. I don't know. Maybe now I need to go Google something myself and see if I need to sue somebody. Oh, fascinating. So I might be retiring fairly early. Okay, just to let you know, there's a bit of a latency for them actually seeing the livestream. So these next new 17 interactions could actually okay, something about me wearing the same pants all the time. Why not just change your pants? Okay, here's a question. Why didn't Fractal include sound deadening in the new ARC MIDI R2? Well, the reason we didn't do that is that the Define series is our silent, our quiet PC case line. Yes, if I could put a panel up right here, this would go a lot better. But ARC is all about airflow. So basically, if you want high airflow case, you go with the ARC. If you want airflow plus sound deadening, you go with the Define series. Okay. Well, that was pretty straightforward. I think that pretty much took care of it. Should I get a 7970? Oh, wow. A GTX 78? Okay, he's just trolling. Okay. How is Slick wearing shorts and short sleeves? I don't know. He's some kind of... Need a coat? I got one. I have never heard of robot dolphin attack thus unicorns. There will never be glitter. Props to the Fractal guy. Look at you all professional. You know, it's funny because he was asking if he was overdressed. To which... I didn't really listen. Yeah. Yeah. I thought this was going to be professional, to my bad. What would you say to a friend who says power supplies are a lie and all the power goes raw to your components? Slick, why don't you handle that one? Uh... Maybe just don't be friends with him anymore. Maybe that has to... Like, you have to draw a line somewhere. And maybe it has to be a logical one. Like, it's one thing if he plays Black Ops night and day on a PS3 and you know, has like the special PlayStation 3 monitor that is somehow special from the other monitors. And it's another thing if he thinks you want to plug like individual cables to each one of your components from the wall. That's just... You do that once. I've actually met people like that. Who think that power bars are like bad and you have to plug each component separately to the wall. Although I think my personal favorite, this was hopefully my mother-in-law isn't watching because one of my favorites was, you know that little LED light on power bars? Yeah. She would insist on not only turning off all of the electronics but also switching off the power bar to preserve the electricity that was being consumed powering the light. From the high wattage LED that's on there. And it's not even just like, okay, and I know some devices, like, they'll draw power at idle. We know this. And so everything would be unplugged from the power bar. It still needed to be turned off. To conserve the power. When I was in college, actually my business partner at the time, you know, typical geek setup, LEDs flashing everywhere of all kinds of devices. And then on the smoke alarm on the ceiling he had a piece of black tape over the one LED. I'm like, it looks like the New York City skyline over there. You can sleep with that. But that one LED on the smoke alarm is killing you for some reason. Oh, nerds. How we are so like you and yet we make fun of you. Gigabit Ethernet, how much would you pay for month? This is actually a good question. How much would you pay per month for gigabit up down, like Google, whatever it's called. Google Fiber. $11.00. $11.00. Perfect. Thank you. How much would you pay? Were you going to say the exact... Are you guys like a bunch of Tolkien fans around here? We're just awesome by nature. He does that, doesn't he? Yeah, he's whatever. The Hobbit is $11.00 something. $11.00 or $11.00? Well, it's kind of similar. It's $111 something. I don't remember what it is. $111 something. $111 something I thought. Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, whatever. How much would you pay for Google Fiber? $11.00. $11.00. Okay, well, I'm going to actually give a useful answer. Probably I wouldn't pay that much more than the internet plans that are available now. So, in my area, you can get $250 down, $15 up for around $120 a month. So, I'd say if I was going to get that kind of an up speed, I would probably pay $200 to $250, but I wouldn't want it to start creeping up into the same class as business tier internet service plans. I'd like it to be available so that hopefully it would be cheaper, but I wouldn't pay that much. Okay, then why don't you give a real answer? I don't know, but not $250 a month. Okay. That's like enough insurance to put a car on the road. That's true. Where can we go to watch your live stream? Good question. If you're not watching it, then you're not going to hear this answer. Twitch.tv slash LinusTech. Yeah. Alright, let's see if we have any... Hey, hey, hey! We got Paul from New Egg. Tell Josh it was 29C in Southern California today. Hey, Paul. So, really, we're just a stopover for you on the way to go visit New Egg TV. Oh, it's a publicity tour. This should be a shout out to Logan, right? Just the fact that I'm wearing like a sport coat. Now, here's the other thing. Degrees Celsius, I understand. Like, so I'm from the states, but I understand that when it comes to processors, but when I got in the rental car and I'm trying to set the temperature, I'm like, is 18 good or do I want to be at 12 or 26? 26 is good and then I'm sweating bullets. Yeah, it would just throw me off. 26 is a little hot for the car. Yeah, it is. It is actually. You know, it's not that cold up here. And then that gets you all sweaty so that when you arrive here, you get to walk into our garage, which is not warm. And then it starts to freeze. Yeah. So there's a whole phase change thing going on right here. So what are you not going on with New Egg TV? I'm curious. Is that one of the things you can't talk about? Top secret. Give away all of Paul's Hey, never said I was going directly to New Egg TV, but I might be in that general area. Secret agent thing. I can either confirm or deny that I might be in LA sometime in the next two to three years. Thank you for that. This guy's just evasive. We just shouldn't ask him anything. It's working. Yes. Do you know of any problems with YouTube today? Sorry, I don't. There are probably problems with YouTube today because it's YouTube. Yeah. Oh, you skipped over that one. Here we go. Adam S says, Josh, the R4 changed my life. Also, the note is amazing. How would you like to address that? You're amazing. That's awesome. Yeah, that's what we do. I mean, honestly, like when we make this stuff, it's awesome to hear that because believe it or not, a lot of work goes into designing a case. It's very hard to differentiate on such a standard platform. This is actually a great discussion topic. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the process that Fractal and probably any case manufacturer goes through to bring something to market? There's multiple stages that it goes through. I mean, the first thing is always listening. You want to hear what everybody wants. And the difficult thing about making a case. It's my listening face. Yeah, I can tell. Yeah, so the difficult thing about making a case or making any product for that matter is you basically have to appease as many people as possible knowing that you're probably going to alienate some. It'd be like 20 people trying to order one pizza. Right? You kind of go, everybody want crust? Okay, yeah, we're good with that. Everybody want sauce? We're good with that. Pepperoni? No? Okay. Cheese? No? Okay. So you kind of have to look at what... To be clear, your pizza has sauce and crust but no cheese? No, it has cheese but no pepperoni. You need to follow. You need to focus. But yeah, so I mean, there's a lot of it that goes through it. There's a lot of internal back and forth and getting input from people. And you know, and then also we kind of go out to experts in the industry. Other experts in the industry. They never ask me anything. Yeah, it's okay because we know what the answer is going to be. You know, but you know, it's very much taking feedback. And that's why you see like an R4. And there was an R3 before that and an R2. It's like each one of those is an evolution. We've taken feedback in. And same thing with the XLR2. We moved away from the thermal chamber design. And we caught some flack for it from some people. And then we had other people like, oh thank God. This is exactly what I wanted. I wanted a big open case. I wanted plenty of room to mount water cooling gear. So and then you go into prototyping and then you go in to get your first batch run and make sure everything's right. Tell us about the prototyping process. I mean, just so they have some context. You don't have to give an exact number. But to get the first case back, the first physical case, you can give me a huge range. Like it could, you know, be like, you know, enormous range. But give me some kind of a range. What does it actually cost a manufacturer to get that first case that doesn't even look right and doesn't fit together properly? Yeah, there's, so there's not an exact dollar amount because it's kind of amortized over the whole production cost. So basically it's built into the fact that you're going to be making 11 teen of these, you know, right? So but to give you an idea sometimes of like how special it is. Like sometimes we'll fly someone to the factory and it'll come back in the seat next to them on the plane. You know, because you want to make sure that like, okay, this is what came off. Is everything right? You don't want to be like, okay, first production sample, ship it out. And it's like, oh, that's what Brown did for me. It just totally trashed the production sample. And now it set us back four weeks. So. Right. Not only that, but you, I mean, with the communication with the factory, you could have something like, oh, no, no, it was fine before we sent it. Yeah, exactly. We don't have to redo that. Yeah, yeah. No, it was perfect. It was flat when we sent it. That's just how we did it. But yeah, it's so, it's very much a very tricky process. And then you have to, it'll be the little things that will get you to, you know, things that aren't really revolutionary that there's so many things to check on a case because physically it's a large object. Right? So it's like, are all the bends right? All the creases right? Do all the panels fit right? Something as small as making panels fit can be okay. It's the radius of the bend. It's the type of metal that you use. It's Well, Silverstone never got it figured out with a case like the TJ07, where every TJ07 actually has side panels that are fitted to it. And they haven't actually managed to make, because you can't necessarily take the panels off one TJ07 and put them on another one. So that should give you guys some idea how tricky that might actually be. Yeah. Then you add sound deadening material to it and mass production to it. Yeah, you know, and everything has to be, you know, a lot of times we'll get stuff like why don't you add this, why don't you add this, why don't you add that? It's like, you know, everything does add to the cost of the case. So again, we're always trying to hit a good value point. So we want to try and offer as many features as possible without, like, you know, breaking the bank for a lot of people. So we try and go with the key features that we think are important. And you know, our Facebook page, we get tons of input from our fans all the time about hey, I like this, could you change this, could you do that? And believe it or not, as hokey as it sounds, all that does make it back to our production team. So we do take everything back. Alright, we do have a couple of, we do have a couple of questions from the forum thread. So I've got one guy who's asking a couple of things. So why move the reset switch to the top of the R4 instead of being covered by the door? And his other ques- actually here, I'll give you that question first. So what's the reasoning behind that? Thank you, by the way. Okay. Yeah, see? There you go. So there's the answer, right? You know, we do take feedback. And we look at the overall feedback. You know, if we get like 85% feedback on something, we'll say, okay, you know, as much as we thought it was a good idea to begin with, maybe that's not where the industry's at now. Or, at the very least, if our customers are talking, we want to listen. So we had strong feedback that people wanted on the top of the case. So, there you go. Okay, Demos asks from the forum threads. Guys, there's a forum thread in the Cases and Power Supplies section on linustechtips.com, where we had taken questions for Josh from last week's livestream. Would switching from a fractal arc MIDI to a Define R4 bring about a significant noise reduction? Yes. There you go. You're moving into our silent case. So there's going to be a couple different things going on there. You're going to have the sound deadening capabilities of the insulation material, the bitumen that we have. And then you're also going to have the moduvent blocks for the fan vents that you're not using. So you can actually block off the vent so sound's not escaping from there. Alright, so future lives, let's go to some Twitter questions here. Future livestream guest suggestion. Alex from MSI, he seems funnier than the fractal guy. That is entirely possible. You know Alex, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. I think Alex is funnier than you. Okay, Josh, what is your favorite fractal design case? Hmm, personally, arc MIDI R2. Why? It's just so awesome. I mean, I've always been more of like a high performance computer enthusiast, so for me I like the flexibility with it. Although the XLR2 does have a lot of options for liquid coins, so those two are the top, but probably arc MIDI R2. So tell us a little bit about the kinds of systems that Biohazard used to build. You say that you're, you know a little thing or two about high performance, so what was the price range? The average sales price was in the 8-12 thousand dollar range, so go ahead and start flaming me right now for being overpriced and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm used to it. I'm used to it, yeah. But what we did is, you know, we focused a lot on liquid cooling and high performance cooling, so we did everything from air cooling to liquid. We played with Texan Pelts for a while, and then we got into phase change, and then we had one of the only multi evaporator phase change systems on the market. So basically it's just very high end custom stuff. Most of our stuff was one offs and it'd be, you know, I guess bleeding edge hard works. If you're spending that much money, why not, right? Right. Okay, here we go. Any, how does Swedish design contribute to Fractal's approach to cases? So why don't, why isn't it missing one screw when you try to put it together? I guess it's the question he's trying to ask. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're in a lot of our instructions and pictures and stuff like that, and it's shipped flat. No, we, yeah, so where it really comes in is a lot of the design cues, the visual design. I mean, you know, the fact that design is part of our name shows how much we focus on that. It's going to be much more minimalistic. You know, we obviously have I guess more of a subdued appearance than some cases out there. And it's not saying that the other ones are bad, it's just that you're going to see people gravitate towards different things. What I liked when I first got into the PC industry is not exactly what I like right now. So, yeah, you see a lot more in the design of the white and the black and that sort of thing. What case is your personal computer in? My personal computer is in an R4. Is it? Yes. Really? Yes, why? I just, I would have expected you to have a case that is more, that is more water cooling friendly. Do you not water cool anymore? So, no, I don't. Really? Because I do not have the time. And you know, liquid cooling is so awesome until something goes wrong and you start getting that drip and that little puddle sitting on your video card and you're like oh crap. Well, you know, Asus had that, I think they had a couple motherboards that allowed you to individually turn off the PCIe slots for diagnostics. So, I think it was about a 400, $450 board or something like that. So, you're trying to tell me you don't have one of those then? No, no, I don't because my computer at home, so actually I have multiple, right? Because just like you, I don't know if you can see it, you know, computers all over the place. Same sort of thing. It's like I have a Media Center PC in my bedroom. How lame is that? You know, so I can Netflix stream. Yeah. And a wife that puts up with it, which is probably even better. That's like half the battle. Yeah, that's like 80% of the battle. Yeah. You wouldn't know. Yeah, we have all the toys that we're allowed to have. It's basically what it boils down to. So, yeah. What's the spec of your personal rig? Find any time for gaming anymore? Yes, yes, sometime. It's usually switching. Right now though, it's old. It's 2500K and I'm running 27970s. Yeah, that's really old. That's really crappy. Older. Now, some parts of it are old, you know, and some parts of it are... Yeah, the Defiant R4 is really old. When was that released? A month ago? No, actually July 20th, roughly. Oh. Why don't I have one yet? Because I saw your unboxing video on it. Okay, then. Shucks. That makes sense. Speaking of gaming, we were talking about Assassin's Creed 3 at our office today. Or Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag. What's your favorite game series? So, game series, franchises, whatever. So, Hitman, awesome. Absolution, kind of lost me a little bit. Bioshock, I'm looking forward to Infinite, and then Assassin's Creed. Really? Yes. Bioshock 2 was so bad. Okay, did you play it? Yes. How far in did you get? I actually finished it. No! Unlike Christ, or unlike, was it the original Crisis? I didn't finish that. You didn't finish the original Crisis wasn't bad. I mean, it went all, yeah, but it went all aliens and stuff, and then it was like, okay, they jumped the shark, you know. Okay, the alien bit wasn't actually a lot of fun, but the, I didn't mind, I know a lot of people complained about the carrier bit at the end. I didn't mind it. Were you fighting, I mean, it was really hard, and I died a lot, but a final boss fight is supposed to be difficult. Yeah, exactly. So, I don't actually have a problem with that, but okay, fine, whatever. This scale of the easy level on how if blindness can beat it or not. It takes him about four or five times as the easy level. Thank you. You know what, he's never actually played games with me, so he doesn't. I have. I played you in Battlefield 3. Okay, but I don't play Battlefield. Okay, whatever, man. Yeah, so Assassin's Creed, though, yeah, that's always been a favorite franchise there. Yeah, me too. You know, the best thing is, like, you know, if you can't get past a certain area or whatever, you get so pissed off. You can just hit the easy button? Is that it, you guys? No, no, then you just go, like, knife a civilian until you desync. Yeah. You know, it's like, let's just check out your regression on somebody else. Okay, speaking of the Crysis series, so you're running a 2500K. You've been keeping up with the Intel AMD Arms race. Have you seen the PS4 specs? No, because I saw all the negative publicity from everybody that watched the announcement and everything like that. I actually didn't watch the announcement. No pictures of the actual system. Yeah, I heard it was just terrible. Yeah, the controller was it. I think that's all they showed. And the controller just looks like some kind of weird, like, space age six axis. It's like a six axis, but slap a touch screen right in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. Victory. So, okay, so, if you could have the perfect... What do you think is missing from PC games that... And sorry, I'm going somewhere with this. So the PS4 has an x86 multi-core processor, so it's going to be as close to a PC as we've been since probably the original Xbox. Because it's got an AMD Radeon class graphics card, it's got a bunch of GDDR5, it's got an x86 processor, and it's made by AMD. So no funny power cell nonsense, none of that. What do you hope that this affects? And I'll let you answer this one too, because I don't know if you weighed in last time. What do you hope this affects for PC gaming? Because do you own a console? Yeah, I own an Xbox 360 Kinect, and that's mainly for my kids. Right, okay, so about right then. Yeah, exactly. Like you, I think I've played it maybe like three times, unless I'm doing like We Dance 2 or something, you know, Rocket Out to the Ex-Dance. Yeah, by the way, We Dance actually isn't for Xbox 360. No, no, We Dance, like We Dance, I can't remember what it is. But yeah, I don't know, I mean, the thing is, like, with... I'm such a PC gamer that it's hard for consoles to excite me. You know, I look at it, it's like, you know, flash in the pan is going to be good for the first year, and then it gets eclipsed. Right. You know, and then it's like, for the first year you're going to hear all the crap about, oh, PC gaming's dead, look at the graphics, look at this, look at that, and it's like, yeah, that's good. And then year two rolls around, it's like, still holding its own pretty good, and year three rolls around, it's like, okay, yeah, it's starting to look like crap. Okay, so tell him the news that you told me the other night that's actually just freaking amazing. One thing, personally I'm vicariously happy for console gamers, they can finally get something that doesn't look like poo, because it's been a really long time. But companies like Ubisoft are basically going, oh, we're sorry PC gamers, we've just been porting you crap for years. Now that everything is x86 based for me developing for PC and porting down. So that is just kind of fantastic. Which, as much as I love the Assassin's Creed franchise, it's like, okay, why do I have to wait three months after the console launch date for a port? That, which is horrible, and it sucks waiting, and then I just play it on my PC with the controller anyways, because the controls for keyboard and mouse are just so whacked out and weird. Was it like Revelations or whatever, where they still pop up like the icons from like the console game? Is that GW? You're trying to hit it, you don't know what's going on. It's like, how much work would it have been to just have like the game actually check and see what the keybinding is before telling me to press something? It's like, can you do me the common decency of just lying to me for a little bit and make it seem like you developed this from the ground up or at least didn't last minute port it? It gets ugly, but yeah, and like it's not just Ubisoft too, but at least there's now a company, and like, okay, they're saying it now that it's easy, but like, hopefully everyone's going to try and take this angle now where you develop first for PC and then chop down and port down. Because they're also saying like Watch Dogs, which is coming out soon. It's going on on PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 and PC, and I think Xbox maybe too or whatever, but I'm just giving that scale, because that's the one that matters for this story. PlayStation 3 is a chopped down version. If you played on PlayStation 3 versus PlayStation 4 there's way more objects in the game. There's way more everything in the game. Graphically it looks way better, there's way more stuff, it's just great. And then they haven't mentioned anything about PC directly, but I'm assuming it's the PlayStation 4 level. That should be the PlayStation, right. I mean, the other thing that excites me, because I mean, we've pretty much gotten to the limit in terms of how far we can push a single core on a CPU. I mean, both AMD and Intel have basically just gone, yeah, we don't care anymore. Let's add more cores to them, because it's way more power efficient. And other platforms are going to push that trend as well, because on things like tablets or game consoles, all of a sudden power consumption and cooling is way more important than it is on a desktop PC where you've got all this space, because you're spending $8,000 so the tower better be the size of a grown man, right? Or half grown. Yes, thank you for that. So, multi-core optimizations are one of the things that I think is really exciting about seeing an x86 CPU inside a next generation console, because all of a sudden we won't have to rely on proprietary technologies like Nvidia PhysX, because that to me is the holy grail of a truly next generation game, where glass behaves like glass, not because it's scripted to behave like glass, but because it has all the attributes and properties of glass, and therefore behaves like... You can do splash damage, right? Legitimate splash damage. Legitimate splash damage. People could get cut by the glass. I mean... Yeah. That would be truly different. You're blowing a wall and the bullet doesn't take you out, it's the brick flying in from the RPG or something like that. Right, exactly. Where you could actually make it an integral part of gameplay, because we have the CPU power for it. Some rudimentary stuff, anyway. Well, back when like when a Gia was around, they always called it a physics kill, right? Like if you could do something like that and hit a brick and chop a tree down, then it falls on the hut. But it was always like, okay, I'm two feet away from it and I died, or it's like I'm directly under it and get completely clobbered and you just somehow survive. I only hit my ankle, I'm good, I'm gonna walk it off. Yeah. And it's always been kind of kludgy. Yeah, that's what I mean. And like games where they've implemented it, it's like, I mean that's the thing that sort of kills me about PhysX is that the other platforms are not ready, so it's never gonna be implemented in a way that's really compelling. Because I would love, I mean that and then VR. Yeah. Oculus Rift with physics, with like that level of physics, it's just gonna be absolutely fantastic. Yeah, so you know, while we're all just kind of sitting here having... It's our own thing. Yeah. Is the camera on? I guess, yeah, we could sort of see if anyone has anything to you guys should invite a guest. Wow, look at this. The first thing people want to talk about when we bring you on as a guest is all the other people we should invite. I know, I know. I'm setting the bar so low. But yeah, I'm doing that for you. For the Fractal Guide, do you guys offer modded parts like the panels I painted? Probably not, I would think, but hey, that looks pretty good. Yeah, looks like you, oh the mesh. Anything out, we're always looking at doing this stuff and some things may or may not be in the works. Is that vague enough? That's vague enough. Vague, okay. Alright, we already have, oh I think that's sort of a scary topic. Five times. 30 inch monitors, 5x1 portrait or 3x1 landscape, pros and cons? Portrait looks kind of cool in pictures, but then you have like like if you talk about bezel space, like dead space for bezel space, if you look in those pictures and pay attention, there's like chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, all along your now landscape level. Have you ever gamed in 5x1 portrait? Limited, but yes. What would you say about the experience? Yeah, I did not thoroughly enjoy it. I would definitely go with like 3x1 landscape personally. Yeah, I'm going to have to say the same thing. We actually did an NCIX Tech Tips on 5x1 portrait. And bezels were a definite issue. The other issue was game support. That is a weird resolution. Isn't there like a website widescreen gaming or something like that that like has all the hacks to where you can like... He had never heard of that before. Really? And even then there's fairly popular titles like Skyrim for example does not support surround. Period. Even like normal surround, 3x1080 does not support it. So if you're... So you're going to take that subset of games that work with surround and you're going to get a subset of games that work with your weird surround. Well the problem is a lot of people don't have the money. Like I never knew about widescreen gaming because I had one monitor. It never really mattered. And I had a square monitor for so long. Yeah he wasn't cool. He didn't adopt widescreen early on like I did with my Acer 1916W. Blingin'. Do you remember that monitor? It was cheap. It was 200 bucks. It was 1440x900 or some stupid resolution like that. Where it was actually like it was too small vertically to be useful for anything. It's like Lamar Burton's shh. Yeah, yeah. It was basically like that and then it was just VGA only. Which meant like awesome image quality. Yeah exactly. 8 bit. Well to kick it back real far for you. It's like back when I was at Biohazard. Hey you're old hey. I know, I know. We had actually one of the first 30 inch displays at 2560x1600. If you remember when they first came out it was like Dell and Apple. Dell and Apple were the only two that had it. And then Samsung came out with one and they were gracious enough to let us use it for CES. And it was like back then all the system upgrades were freaking out. Thank god I don't have to buy a Dell monitor. Now there's anything wrong with that. But like when you have your own branded system the last thing you want to be is like and Dell. And Apple. And my competitors. Next time buy from them. Was that really, that was it? That was where you found it? Yeah that was it. And then the awkward pause. I'm beginning to think you're doing this on purpose. What? No. It's got to be a production quality thing. Alright. So GT, you guys should invite a game developer guy. Yep. I hope people realize they can play all their Xbox and Playstation games on PC in the future. Okay we're not talking about emulation. This is not a, we're not talking about emulators. What do you think of revolutionary case designs? Like Silverstone's 90 degrees. Like the Fortress and the TJ-11. Yeah it's been around for a while but I mean does the, okay here. Does the ATX form factor need a shake up? Or was BTX's failure all the proof we really needed that it doesn't? Yeah so and we dealt with BTX back when I was a system integrator. I mean it's Hold on. History lesson guys. Sorry. BTX was a standard from Intel that instead of having a standard power supply top, motherboard with the CPU here, the RAM here, and the slots here with the coolers facing down. That's ATX. BTX basically took that, brrrrriiit. And then it had standards for the CPU being located closer to the center and then having intake specifically positioned over it. So sorry go ahead. So you dealt with that as a system integrator? Yeah but the problem there was like that heat pipes on like north bridges and stuff weren't wicked. They were designed to work in the standard ATX form factor so when you'd flip them over all of a sudden it wouldn't work. Because it's gravity fed. But so that's just one of the issues. You know the thing is with I guess what you call like revolutionary designs. Get it revolutionary? Yeah. Oop. You gotta revolve it. You know the thing is personally for me as long as it's done for like a legitimate reason that makes sense but if you're doing it just to do something different then I think that pans out pretty quickly. You know it's good to have change. You know some things like small form factor used to be like really hot for like a year and a half when it first came out. But like way back when, way back in my day, you know there was like no performance hardware that small. And the cases were so cramped. And then now you see like for example like there are Node 304 and other mini ITX cases. You can get a pretty impressive system slammed into a small case. But it still comes down to like a usage scenario thing right? Like some people it's like I don't care I still want a full tower. You know and some people like I want to build the fastest system I can in like the smallest possible environment. Okay what about the argument that I should build an ITX machine such as a Node 304 or a BitFenix Prodigy or something in that sort of size class. What about the argument that I should build something like that for LAN gaming? Okay so you know it makes sense. You know for transportation portability obviously we have a lot of people that buy them for that reason. But if you go to your local LANs I think you see just as many people. Like when we were at NetWare LANs you know we saw I think a couple XLs and you see 800Ds and stuff like that. So it's like yeah lots of 800Ds at LANs. Yeah there's just as many you know gamers out there that want to run a full tower because you know to them it's like you know 29 days of the month I'm sitting next to my desk. And that's one of the things like okay so here let me spin this in to talk about myself. You know like the XL right? The Define XL and now the XLR2 are heavier cases because they're big and they're made out of steel. And the thing was when I was a system integrator we'd always get told that company X or Y had such light cases. And it's like okay good for you. Now fill it full of gear. How light is it? It's like empty okay it's half the weight of this other case. Full it's five pounds less than a 50 pound mark so it's not as much of a big push. I see. So it's kind of you have to look at it inside the product envelope of how is it going to be used in the usage scenario. Although there are extreme examples. I mean your brother has a modded out Cosmos R2. What does that thing weigh? It's like 110 pounds or something. I'd have to get the actual weight from him. But he put a crossbar on it and kind of the running joke is he's the only person who can pick it up. Realistically like I can pick it up but I'm like oh god. He can kind of just beast mode it. Pick it up and walk around. So the idea is if he goes to Aladdin he can just put it wherever and it's not a big deal because no one can steal it. They need like a bobsled team of like four people to come and put it up there. But it would be so awesome to be like at the lamp and put a Kensington lock on it to the table just in case. You're dragging the whole table with it. Would the Kensington lock hold up? That is the real question here. Hang it from the ceiling. Just don't sit underneath it. That would be a stress test. You can just pull the whole ceiling down though. Oh that thing is so heavy. Like honestly I had trouble moving Cosmos to around without anything in it. And part of it is the weight. It weighs 50 pounds but the reality of it is I can take a 30 pound case fill it full of hardware to the point where it weighs 50 pounds I can move that around no problem. Part of the problem with the Cosmos too is it's my entire wingspan large so I can't really like get it. And in the box I actually, did I show you how close it was to not fitting in the trunk of my car? Like you have to actually borrow a minivan to buy one. And like we water cooled it. There's a couple hard drives in there. Like it's not... Hard drives add up fast hey? That's why I mentioned they add up real quick. Like even something like a Node 304 or an Array R2 I remember I loaded up an Array R2 which is their older 6 drive ITX chassis and I put 6 hard drives in it and I was like oh! Yeah it gets pretty beefy pretty quick. These things are ridiculous. You should just do away with them and use only SSDs. Get right on that. That's what I do. Popping Geek Tags Yeah exactly. Popping Geek Tags. No trip shop for Linus. I'm a bit disappointed with Sony's big controller redesign. Okay. Should have replaced the D-pad with a rubber touch pad. Ooh I don't know about that. Here's a controversial one. Is this... Calling out. Yeah. Was Biohazard better than Voodoo PC? So here's the deal. Raul might be watching. He's actually a big Linus Tech Tips fan. Yeah and I know Raul so if you are hey Raul what's up? Not better. Different. So that sounds like... No but listen. Don't cop out on this one. You have to be this tall to give me crap. So here's the thing. I'm not tall. Okay. You didn't know. But yeah so here's the thing. You know back when I was doing it, it was actually awesome. There was mutual respect between all of the high end boutique guys. Whether it was Raul at Voodoo, Kelt at Falcon, Wallace at Mane Gear, AL when he was at Hypersonic, Mario when he was at Overdrive. I mean we all knew each other. We would all go to these events and hang out together. It was kind of like a car club thing. Like hey man I wouldn't have chosen to do a Nova but you did it pretty awesome. I'd choose to do something else. So there's always this mutual respect of like you know I like what you do. I just choose to do mine this way. And then the thing is when new technology would come out, we'd actually talk to each other like hey are you planning on using this because I don't want to snipe it if you're using it. We started using like a version like Icy Docks back in the day, like the hot swap drives and Mario from Overdrive was using them at the time. So I called him up and like hey dude we have a customer that wants these. We're thinking about running with them but I know you started using them first. Are you cool with that? He's like yeah no problem. I mean but it was the fact that like we weren't trying to snipe each other. It wasn't this cut throat industry. It was just like you know like a guys club. The car show was a good analogy. Yeah. It's like we have mutual respect. Maybe I wouldn't have gone with that one but you know more power to you. So that's the answer. It was just different. We went more with like a hardcore cooling stance. And like you know Keltoys had like really awesome paint jobs at Falcon. Yeah. He had some really sick stuff there. We did some of that but you know I think everybody has to a certain degree. But we each kind of had our niche and that's what we focused on. Whereas Voodoo had the gold plated case. Yeah yeah CES. I remember he had the picture of the white glows getting it out. I actually saw that at CPU Magazine. I was out there taking one of our systems out and they had it set up there doing a photo shoot of it. And the one thing that Raul always did really well was like the divider plate in the Lee Ann Lee case that he used was polished like so perfectly. It looked like a mirror. I'm like he's got two motherboards in there. Oh that's a reflection. And then he had the lighting on the bottom. And then he had the front etched out with the TQ logo. The laser cut thing. Yeah. So no it was awesome. But yeah I mean like I've known Raul for years and we all still stay in touch. The last CES we ran into Wallace and the guys from Ingear. So it's just a respect thing. How much did he charge for the gold plated case? Was it 10 grand or 25 grand? I can't remember. Was it 25? It was up there yeah. I can't remember. Something along those lines. Do you know if he ever sold any? I believe he did like a one off. Like I know at least one of them was like a one off from like some Prince in Dubai or something. I can't remember. I know it's like man. Of course it's a Prince in Dubai. Yeah or a guy in Jersey. One of the two. I don't know. The Dubai Prince if you're watching let us know if you still have your gold plated Voodoo. Yeah. Or was it made of gold? No. Well gold would be too malleable. Yeah. So it had to be plated but still that much plating would be. And plating aluminum is not easy. That's actually like a thing. Plating aluminum with gold. I tried to have I tried to have. It's like alchemy. Well yeah sort of. Oh here these. So I have some mushkin copper heads here that I tried to have the tops the top pieces because I thought they were brass. Yeah. So I tried to have these gold plated to go along with my gold plated Apogee HD water block. And they told me when we thought it was. Popping nerd tags again. Just popping nerd tags. But go for it. When we thought it was when we thought it was brass it was going to be no problem. But as soon as they found out it was aluminum they said actually it's much more challenging and much more of a problem. Yeah I'm sure it'd be like a more chemical process. Yeah. Involving like chemists. Stuff that we don't know. Stuff that we don't understand at all. So actually going back to our topic with multi-core gaming a little bit. So crisis 3. The rumor on the street. And we've actually done some testing. I'll probably let you talk about that a little bit. Crisis 3. The rumor is runs better on AMD 830 8350 FX. Versus the 3570K. Remember these are equivalently priced processors. The difference being that the 3570K is cut down and does not have hyperthreading compared to the 3770K. And the 8350 is AMD's flagship FX series processor and has 8 physical cores. Well like sort of like 4 plus half of 4 kind of you know bulldozer modules. 4 bulldozer modules which are each sort of 1 and a half actual physical cores. So Slick are you are you ready to talk? I don't remember my actual numbers. You don't remember the actual numbers? Well at any rate we actually did test these. We ran them with GeForce GTX Titan. Wait no we didn't. We ran them with the 660Ti right? With the Titan it was 8350 versus 3770K. Ah that's right. Okay. So with the Titan we ran 3770K versus 8350. So that's the hyperthreaded one versus the 8350 and the 3770K kind of ran away with that one right? Yes. Yes. So in that case it looks like Crisis 3 is heavily multi-core optimized but when we tried 3570K versus 8350 with the GTX 660Ti which is a much more reasonable class of video card that many more gamers are running I mean Titans cost a thousand bucks which I guess means nothing to you Mr. $8000 computers and all that. Yeah I've got three of them sent on the dashboard of my car right now. Yeah. That's just how I do. It's just another deal. Make it rain. Make rain titans up in here. So running with a much more realistic card we actually ran into a situation where what were the numbers? The averages are very similar. The averages were very similar but when we hit one intensive spot and actually in our video review which is coming out soon I think we said it looked like a blip but we've rerun it since then and validated it as the physics effects go crazy the Intel CPU actually got less bogged down than the AMD CPU so what it looks like to us is there was an event in the game that wasn't threaded and that's where the Intel CPU was able to pull ahead so our minimum frames per second dipped when what are you doing in that spot? So for anyone who's seen the benchmarking guide if you haven't this will hopefully just guide it enough. We go from a very calm literally just walking through a tunnel part of the benchmark to the action part of the benchmark and I come up to the top of stairs, pull a bow with explosive arrows and just start hammering at a turret so there's three or four guys. Why would you hammer with a bow and arrow? Oh my god. There's three or four guys shooting at me. There's a turret going off I'm blowing the turret up with explosive arrows. I'm moving quickly all at the same time and you can always feel the whole computer gets really slugged straight when that happens on almost every platform I've ran it on. Okay Slick I have two choices for you. Which of these is more appropriate for hammering something? No, no you clearly don't know that because sorry what did you say before? Hold on let's see if Josh can figure this out. Josh which is more appropriate? For hammering? For hammering yes. A turret. Yes hammering a turret. I would still have to go with probably the hammer. Okay you're both wrong. You have a bow and arrow? But a bow and arrow still has a striking motion. A saw does not have a striking motion. Because this is the only tool appropriate for hammering a turret. You could still hammer with that. Hold on ten points, ten points what am I referring to? What do you hammer turrets with wrenches? Oh. Ah ah ah ah ah ah ah. Did you ever play Team Fortress 2? No. Oh that's disappointing. That was a lot of lead up to that. That was a huge amount of lead up to one not the greatest point. Yeah that joke felt kind of flat didn't it? I thought you invested a lot of time in it though. Yeah. A for effort. Thank you. A for effort with biohazard. Sorry are they still in business? Oh man he's got to keep digging on me like that don't you? Oh I see how it is. It's going to get real in here pretty quick. Um sorry were you done? I don't even know. Oh yeah you were hammering on the turret and then I'm pretty sure I finished while you were being annoying. Oh okay cool. Which is a long period of time. Yeah that could have happened at any point. Um okay so you know what I'm going to go back to that forum thread called questions for Josh and see if we can find any other good fractal design questions that I think we've. Uh some guys from Mexico wants to know how the heck he can buy a fractal design case. Um book of flight to the US and pick one up here. No we are officially not in Mexico. Um although we will get tech support calls from Mexico so it can be done. I mean you know it would be like oh okay how'd you get that? Okay well anyway here's what you do to fix this or fix that. But um yeah so we're always looking at new markets. I'll put it that way. There's a great question. What are the complications? Cause I mean from the layman's perspective it's as simple as oh find a store there, ship them a bunch of cases and then they sell them. What are the complications? That's all we gotta do? Yeah I know right. Should've done that. So honestly a large part of it comes into like import tax you know you have to validate any market that you want to move into. Make sure there's a customer base there and then it's sustainable. Um certain countries will have like a 300% import tax on. That's all common in South America correct? Yeah yeah and then so it's like okay now all of a sudden your case is three times what it was in the states. Which is okay as long as everybody else's case is three times what it was you know because then people are used to paying that. But then if there's like say a local manufacturer where they don't have the importation then there's no way you can possibly compete. Or if it's a market like South America where it's dominated by low end parts because everything's so expensive. You know it's funny because people often I get messages all the time. Why are NCIX's prices so low? They're so low compared to my country. I wish NCIX could sell to me here to which I would reply well they could but you're just going to pay it on the tax on the receipt rather than to the retailer itself. And I mean Europeans often look at the prices on NCIX and go oh the prices are so low. Because you don't have VAT over here and stuff like that. Because we don't have a value add tax. That's what it's called right? Value add tax or something like that. I believe so. And well then you know shipping too right? It's like okay yeah it's like the price is cheap. You're going to pay just that much in shipping. That's right. And then you know then you have import duties too. It's like can you please ship it to me? Market is gift. Yeah no. Business can't do that. Yeah yeah that's a big problem. And the other thing is there's you know there's different desires in different regions. I mean if you look you probably you know some of our most popular cases in the US are not always the most popular versions in Europe or other parts of the world. So there's definitely different tastes in different regions and things like that. Well I remember there was a big disparity back when you were telling me that Ark MIDI was way more popular than one of the other cases that NCIX was outselling Ark MIDI with 5 to 1. And I mean that is something where you can have a difference like that across a border like US Canada. Yeah. Where the I mean the needs are pretty similar. I mean okay here tell me the weirdest one that you've seen. Like a territory that for some reason has a huge appetite for a particular case that's not popular somewhere else or less popular. Like we've had I guess I won't call any specific regions because they're all different. I'm not sure if I remember correctly but there's one of the European regions where it's like for example the Core 1000 was doing okay and then like the Define XL they just didn't like it. And then like over here the Define XL had always been like one of our top four cases and like the sales figures it was just like staggering. It's like you would think that just by like you know normal aggregate sales you'd get more than what you're getting on that one. But then you know they'd have another case that here did okay and over there it was just like you couldn't find them on the shelves there. They were gone so quick. So. It's interesting how different brand choices and even individual like not even within brands different choices that happen. It just region to region. Especially on forums you'll find like oh wow people in say Germany like this like crazy silence optimized case that just doesn't really sell in North America. Well you know one of the unique things too is just if you look at the usage habits of people in different regions. Like you know LiquiCoins has always been very popular in Europe. Yeah I mean they have entire companies over there that I mean I used to product manage water cooling at NCIX. I'd try to bring in these product lines. I couldn't sell a single unit. I'd have to give them away. I'd have to sell them at a loss and yet these are huge companies in Europe selling tons of Yeah and usually it's like it's fairly expensive gear because it's pretty high end. You know it's refined and stuff And it's manufactured in Europe a lot of the time as well. Yeah which is even more costly. Yeah. Yeah. You know so what you look at is you see that you see it's like it's a different culture at least as far as the usage scenario goes. So you have guys that like their whole thing is setting up a custom LiquiCoins loop and then like in the states it's popular but it seems like it's not as popular to go the full custom loop route. I think that's why I see like the self-contained LiquiCoors are really popular. A lot of H100s. Yeah because the thing is it's like at the end of the day it's like you can set up this really you know awesome LiquiCoins loop and then you fire up the pump start priming the tubes and everything and then drip drip drip. So then you got to go on and try and tighten everything down and it's You must not be very good at water cooling. No I'm not. I didn't even have a business that I did it. But you know it's like so you know the thing is like you'll do that or it's like you go to do a computer upgrade right. It's like you know because usually if you tend to be a LiquiCoin guy you're kind of like an early adopter or at least you're into tech and it's like I'm going to cool a LiquiCard for the next four months. And then the best part is when you get that new card and it ends up having some kind of an issue and then you end up wanting to swap to the red or the green team solution. Yep. And so you actually end up changing it more often than every upgrade cycle oh crap well one card wasn't good enough I need two so I guess I better drain and redo the whole thing. I mean honestly part of the reason that my personal rig has taken so long is that everything I do is not like where I put my cutouts in the motherboard tray is not based on the motherboard I'm using now. It's based on what could I possibly foresee happening such that I wouldn't have to redo this by the time you're done it's going to be a bunch of zip ties holding the motherboard up because you're going to swiss cheese your motherboard tray so bad. It's got no rigidity do not look at the case too hard. Yeah well what I'm hoping is that the motherboard will actually support the motherboard tray. It's a bouncy neck do not breathe on the system. Really good question will the sound dampening on an R4 adequately block the high pitched sound frequency of a D5 pump on setting 5? Okay so that's a very specific question. Yeah it it depends it depends on placement. So I met with Mike Chen from Silent PC Review this morning we were talking well basically he was talking and I was just sitting there slack jawed trying to understand all the stuff that he was spouting about you know sound waves and things like that because that's where he's very good. But yeah it generally what you're looking at when you come from like a sound deadening principle and kind of the way we do what we do is there's like echo canceling and then there's like sound deadening like when you see like the soft eggshell foam like inside recording studios. Yeah. That's not sound deadening that's designed to like mitigate echo. Disperse sound. So like I saw a blog where they explained it very well where it's basically like if you went to like a racquetball court you know hard walls everywhere take like a handful like high bounce balls and just chuck them. They're going to bounce around forever right. Now if you go put like that foam on the wall you know they're going to hit it boom and drop. So same sort of thing with sound waves. Now if like you want a sound deadening something that usually comes in like wall construction thickness things like that. So you know if you just had a standard drywall with that eggshell crepe foam on one side and your buddies on the outside. It does nothing. Yeah it does nothing. It's not going to stop it. Plus it's more porous it has like a narrow band of what it will stop. Can be flammable. Could be. Yeah. The good stuff isn't what we have in here probably is. I'm starting to feel real safe right about now. But you know so then when it comes in to actually sound deadening like if you're looking at room analogy that comes in like the construction of the wall itself. How thick the wall is. How thick the materials are. And then you could still have it sound deaden but the inside of the room would be very echoey. So where that comes back in a case design is our material is more dense. Our vitamins so it's designed much more at that point. It's moving towards sound deadening. And then it also has to do with mitigating vibration on the actual panel itself. Because what you see a lot of times is it's like you might not be hearing the sound. You're hearing the remnants of the sound echoing through the panel. It's really good panel fits come in. So as far as the pump goes high pitched stuff is kind of harder to grab. That's why my voice tends to get picked up by the mic better than either of theirs because my voice carries because it's not quite as deep and manly. See I can't even fake it. Your voice crack. It's not as deep and manly. Why when I was doing videos I thought that I could get the microphone a little bit further away from me. A little bit closer to you okay. You'd have like little pal mics like well Linus you know the problem actually is very wide on it. So yeah it's hard to stop that high frequency sound and also I mean this is one of the things that I tell people over and over again. Get a silent case all you want but don't imagine that you can buy a silent case. You like how I've had that little comment there for a little while. You like that? Yeah. I I'll put that away. Don't imagine you're going to buy a Define R4. You're going to put Delta fans in it and it's going to be a quiet system. Your system is as quiet as the quietest component or the loudest component you have in it. Okay so wrap your mind around that. No one's you know perfected the black hole case. Yes. It's just a complete vacuum. I mean it is a product of its environment and what it's designed to do is mitigate noise as much as possible but obviously if you put in a much higher noise source it can only mitigate that so much. And I've had people message me oh I bought a silent case. I bought a you know NZXT-H2 which is very different from the Define series. And I put I took out all of the do they have events in theirs as well? I can't remember. Okay let's go with the Nuxia then. So that Nuxia case. So I opened up all of the events and I put these high performance fans. I'm getting great temps but it isn't very quiet. It's all about using the thing the way it's supposed to be used. You buy a Define R4. You put some sweet ass Noctua fans in there. You put a nice silent cooler. You get like a nice quiet GPU. You're going to have a quiet computer. Well yeah generally your biggest sources of noise are going to be hard drives, graphics card and then obviously fans. And that's why we have the Modge event. So it's like if you're not using that you're at least blocking off one area where the sound can get out. And there's always got to be a design principle trade off where you have to have airflow and then you have to have some sound deadening. And it's like yeah if you're going to make basically a box and weld it shut okay that's going to be the most silent case you're going to have. But then you know airflow tends to suffer a little bit. You can't breathe. So yeah there's a lot of things that go into the design of it. Not that we've I guess necessarily pioneered it. Not that it's exclusive IP. But there's just things where if you look at the layout of the case you can kind of understand what we're doing and why we're doing it. The other thing to be aware of is that the D5 unless you're running like six water blocks in it anywhere from one to five you're looking at maybe a one degree difference. You stole my point. Well here's another thing I'll steal maybe another point but back when we were in LiquidCoin. We're leaving no points for you. There's no points. There's zero points. You know the other thing I've heard a lot about with LiquidCoin is like oh where do you place your radiator? You know because I want my radiator right in front of my outlet to my CPU so my CPU gets cool as water. It's like that's not how it works. You know with people that I dealt with in the industry it's basically the loop on a LiquidCoin system is so short and it moves so fast. Your radiator basically just brings down the overall temperature of the loop. So it's like maybe it goes into the radiator at like 40 degrees and comes out at like 39.9998. It's actually higher than that. I've seen as much as about half of a degree. Okay. But again 0.75 of a degree. And then we're talking about benchmark numbers right? You know it's like okay it's the difference between like okay driving a Ferrari that has 400 horsepower and 450. It's like on the street are you going to be able to tell a difference? Probably not. On a dyno yes but are you going to drive it on a dyno or are you going to drive it on the street? So you've got to look like the real world application of what you're doing. If I had a Ferrari I'd do nothing but dyno it and I wish I had a color to pop right now. That sort of works right like the hood. Just build a dyno in your own garage so you don't even have to like go out and be like sup. But you totally nerded out though. You'd have like a 5 to 1 you know portrait display. It's like I'm driving. There's a road out there. Yeah but the graphics are so real in here. It's so awesome. Kaboosh physics. Okay then. There's a lot of questions here in the thread about future upcoming Fractal Design products. I'm not even asking Josh because I know he can't answer those questions. Is there a new defined mini? How is this Q&A? Oh here's a good one. How is this Q&A possible? Is Josh Linus his friend and doing it as a friend? Or is he just representing Fractal Design? Representing, popping tags. So are we friends? I don't know. You're not very nice to me. Oh yeah because you started it. Geez. Yeah we've known each other for a while. Much to each other's chagrin I would say. And I guess yes I'm representing Fractal. Although I should do like the disclaimer. All thoughts and ideas are my own. Except for the ones I stole. So. I'm representing me. That's what I'm doing. Here's a question from Emikrian. When will you guys update the Prodigy? Hmm. Let me think about it. It's going to be a little bit yet. But you know we'll work on it. Alright. You know what? Why don't we take some, let's take some Twitter questions for a second. Question for Josh. Why don't you guys have Southeast Asian branch selling via distributors? It's very irritating due to markups. You know what I think that pretty much happens everywhere. Distributors exist because they distribute things. And they Because it's not financially feasible for everybody to have direct operations set up every time. And distributors need to mark things up so that they don't, so that their babies don't starve. Uh. Okay. Wow. Now we're going to put that away for now. What with the personal rig one? Yeah. Huh? What? Okay. Here. This is, you know what? I'm going to let both of you guys address this one while I work on something on my computer. How many years do you think desktop computers have before laptops or tablets basically make them a non factor? You guys are both hardcore gamers so I'm sure whatever you say is going to be what they want to hear. But. Personally I think the form factor and usability of a PC will always be there. There's always that like feeling, you can use a laptop like he is right now and be cramped up and hate everything about what you're doing. Hey. Hey. It's a lean forward device. Yeah. It's a, yeah. You, then you can go and sit on your desktop and have your full nice feeling, hopefully mechanical keyboard. I'm sorry. Does your desktop fit in my lap? No. Cause it wanted to be in my lap. That sounds like an incredibly awkward question. Is that slang for something? Oh yes. Oh my. Um. So yeah. I think form factor will keep it there. Um. I think the enthusiast crowd will always be there in some degree. I think it might get smaller over the years. Um. But there will always be people that like to tinker with things. So. So I will carry that flag, that torch for you as well. So here's my thing. Uh. Like when I use my desktop I feel like I'm at like 100 percent efficiency. Right. Then when I move to my laptop I'm at like 75. Then I move to a tablet I'm at like 50. And on my phone I'm at like 25. It's like yes I can technically thumb through an Excel spreadsheet on my Galaxy S3. Do I want to? No. Do I do it on my phone? When? Because I have to. Right. If I'm in an airport or something. So. The thing is the desktop being dead the PC being dead has been, that's been around for years. I mean they've been seen it for a while. Yeah. When you started biohazard was that already a thing? Oh it was already a thing. Because notebooks were just going to kill the desktop. And then like netbooks came out. Netbooks were going to kill you know notebooks because they were smaller and more portable. People didn't need high end processing power. And then tablets were going to kill the netbook which they did. But then they were also going to kill laptops and they were right. They were right. They got it right. One out of four times 25 percent ain't bad. But that's the thing. It's like you know if you look at the usage scenario it's not so much are we going to change. It's the new the new market that's coming out. So my wife is a teacher. Their school went one to one. Where each kid has their own you know device. Now what's that device? It's an iPad. Why? Because Apple's a genius about you know subsidizing things like that. And then what are they doing? They're creating the next generation of computer users to be Apple users. So when those kids get out of school they're going to go with what they know. So I don't think it's so much an issue of like the three of us are going to decide desktops suck and move on. I think it's going to be the generation that comes next is just going to be used to not using one. You know. Now you're always going to have them around to a certain degree from like professional applications. I mean like hardcore video editing. Like you know gas modeling. All those like high end things like that. But yeah I don't know. I mean I don't think it's going to be dead tomorrow. But if you read it it should have been dead for the past eight years. And it could slowly turn more into like our usage scenario might become basically gigantic docking stations. But Yeah. That's because I mean that actually brings us to the item that we had not that long ago. Because I would make the argument that unless applications get dramatically more multi threading aware which is starting to happen. But they've been saying it's happening since the Athlon 64 X2 launched. So finally happening a bit to me doesn't necessarily equate to I'm celebrating just yet. So where am I going with this? Right. I would make the argument that anything but a super slim ultrabook actually has a powerful enough CPU for anything but a hardcore video editor. Someone who's really really hitting it. So like a gamer especially as multi threading actually this probably helps my point rather than hinders it. As multi threading gets better and we start seeing four, six, eight core CPUs in notebooks that maybe aren't clocked that high. But they're very power efficient and they can dissipate the heat and maybe it's you know a gaming form factor notebook. Now picture this because the big issue that gamers have with notebooks is graphics cards. Right? Yeah. So we had a Magma Express Box 3T which is an external Thunderbolt enclosure that runs off to three PCI Express slots. So you could if the drivers were enabled and right now Nvidia and AMD I think don't want to open up the poop storm that will be if people buy these things spend a thousand dollars on this box plug their GPU in and it doesn't work all of a sudden they're rewriting their driver for like that one dude. Yeah. I think they're just afraid to enable it. But there's no reason because Thunderbolt is basically PCI Express. There's no reason why we couldn't have a native pass through solution to a single PCI Express slot like a simpler solution where the drivers are simpler or maybe they'll get their act together and do the drivers where we could actually have all this high performance junk like our sound cards and you know a RAID enclosure and a video card running off of a single Thunderbolt connection. Then does the desktop die? If you could have a notebook that you plunk down and have a gigantic docking station that has 3G Force GTX Titans in it. Then you wonder is that as elegant as someone wants it. Well that's kind of like my argument. So you see like the thinning lights and stuff like this. You know. Were you gesturing to me or the notebook? Definitely the notebook. Oh because I was about to get all flattered and stuff. Yeah well yeah. Stopping some tech. Feel the cashmere. Even though it's not cashmere. It's not actually it's not very nice. No it's from Sears. I picked it up on the way here. I had to roll a homeless guy to get it but it's okay. So the thing is like what I always thought was funny is like as products came out and they were thinner and they were lighter and you know like sexy products. It's like oh it's going to be so awesome. It's going to be so light. You don't have to look around in that much weight. It's like where does it usually end up? In a backpack. With a power brick. And then since you got a backpack you probably got some other crap in there. You got your headphones. Got my screwdriver. Yeah so by the end of the day it's like okay my super thin and light you know notebook is now sitting in like a 15 pound backpack. My battery dock or my extended battery that goes with my thin and light. Just trying to drive that point home. Well and that's the same thing. It's like or like you know like in the airport you'll see this. Like guys that have like the latest Galaxy S3 thin phone and then it's like in this like Otter box. Where's your phone? Yeah right. It's in like yeah it's like a huge case like that. Oh it's so thin and light. Or like an iPad. And then it's in like some triple fold leather thing where it's like back to this thick. I have a Pelican iPad case in the hallway out there. It's about this thick. I mean you could probably run over it with a car. But someone will carry their iPad around in it. To which I would go why don't you just carry a notebook? Well you know by the time it gets there it's like why don't you just use another iPad as your iPad case. So like when the one side breaks you just flip it over. There you go. That's revolutionary. Asus has that. With their Tai Chi. The flippable thing. Yeah. See? If one screen wears out you just I mean screen protectors just have like more. Disposable screens. Disposable screens. That's how nerdy I am. It's like I could fix that but I'll just rip it off. Okay so let's do our featured system build of the week. I hadn't quite decided on which one I wanted to feature this week. I was looking for one in a fractal case but I couldn't find anything nice enough. So we're going to go with, we're going to go with my personal favorite case. This one's not done yet. But this is one to keep in mind. I've been using this case for a long time. I've been using it for a long time. Which as I've mentioned many times in the past is my personal favorite case. So that's the one. you you you you you you Apparently we lost sound when we switched to the four. My deepest and most sincere apologies. So I'm going to go ahead and fix that for you guys while I explain what I was actually talking about............. So we're going to wrap this up and we're back. Okay. So I was showing you guys a TJ07 build that I really liked and how I thought that that one was pretty cool and then I wanted to switch over to, which one's the one I have open................... Yes So this is a switch 810 build now I'm gonna come right out and I'm gonna say the switch 810 is not my personal favorite case I've had a lot of people ask me why I didn't use the switch 810 for my personal rig and the reason is that it's made of plastic and I personally find that to be not necessarily my favorite thing. So this is a build from York Rick who is maybe from Singapore probably not Possibly I'm thinking not from Singapore and he has got some Seriously cool stuff going on in here and the pictures are not showing up on our live stream computer It's a big problem for me So I'm gonna look for the picture. They're really Do you have hdmi on that on that laptop there? I don't believe that I do so I'm gonna look for the keyword that I really really like to this picture right here Ah, yes, so very very tasteful if there was one thing that I would critique about York Rick's build It's that that power supply really doesn't go with that coolant and it's all about the details But it looks just very very very clean. I'm one of those sort of freaks of nature that actually prefers thin thin water cooling tubes to the sort of the thick ones remember when that half-inch ID three-quarters inch OD tubing was a joke. Oh, yeah, why? Routing was a pain routing was terrible Remember that top that danger den block that had the what was it the MDX with the inlet and the two out? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the three barb. Yeah people would stuff like Three two and then it would they'd like they'd come out and like you couldn't even like the clamps on it to keep everything On the barb. It's like everything was touching. It's like I'll just clamp all of them at the same time It's like I'll just clamp all of them at the same time and hope that it well. That's why your system leaked Well, I didn't do it. I didn't say I used it. Do you know what danger they had like solid silver blocks? So cool. Yeah, I was like point nine nine Troy ounce whatever silver. It's like a little Iberian mint performance Like made no difference. It was like two degrees. Yeah, see see it's all about it So you know what you know what I would add? Okay, if there's anyone watching who has one of these consider this an active bid on it I'll pay five hundred dollars for a cathar storm block in silver For one of the ones it's actually made by cathar and if you guys have one then there's no way you'd sell it to me for five Hundred dollars, so it's uh, so it's do you remember those though? Oh, I have I have a Swift tech storm rev, too That's the closest I have to that sort of monument of water cooling achievement Yeah, no cathar is sort of like if there if there was an actual overclocking or water cooling guru guy It wouldn't be that weirdo who ran that weird computer company on the East Coast. What was it hazard BO? East Coast. Yeah. Yeah East Coast in the middle of the US is close to the East Coast So so yeah that taking your armrest by the way just move over I'm just asserting my dominance. Yeah, I'll you know alpha male Yeah, if there was anyone that I looked up to more than cathar I think it'd be it'd be tough to find it'd be tough to find that that person because he basically killed Every liquid cooling myth did you ever see the test he did on quarter inch versus three eights versus? 7 16th versus half inch with all these different scenarios We're at the end of it all he basically went yeah unless you go down to a quarter where you might drop a degree in a half The difference between three eighths and a half inch is actually really difficult to measure. Yeah That's all perception versus reality right like you think if this is good. That's better to sell on and the realities I don't mean to pick on you or anything, but it really felt like an American thing Well like we started no like bigger is well because it never took off in Europe in Europe They were using quarter inch tubing until like two three years ago. How'd it go here? Oh in America it was like they skipped everything else and went straight to half inch tubing. Yeah That was always still it was always like yeah quarter inch like was like the thinner tubing was a lot more popular in Europe And then really popular in Europe. I always for like three eighths I always for like three eighths thick wall right yeah, yeah see yeah, but the right backs the thin stuff It's like good until it warms up, and then it goes yeah, yeah, yeah exactly So yeah, I was always three eights because it's like part of a compromise cuz like that really fat tubing It's like oh and then depending what type of tubing you have it stick to itself. Yeah, you know it's like oh And the fatter tubing actually looked uglier when it clouded and it all did in those days all that like whatever claims people made My tie gone never cloud yes it did yeah Well yes it did they'd use like the different like I have a copper block and an aluminum block They got a blast brass block. It's like okay get ready for some chemical reaction going on in there It's like what's all that clouding stuff. It's called science oh The early days of water cooling do here's one for you know what the the first liquid cooling radiator actually was Yeah, it was that everyone was using Um car heater course heater core out of like a Ford Escort. Yeah, yeah, I never went that route I came along right when guys like hardware lab like Swift tech was bringing their radiators to market and Hardware labs was now pretty established so my first radiator actually I had some people asking a question Why am I using that old? Scuffed up beat up stupid looking radiator in the front of my TJ07 personal rig It's a black ice Pro 2 and that was like right when that came out that was like the bees knees and it was revolutionary Because it had a very very Open thin arrangement so it was optimized for quiet fans because up till then everyone was using heater course If you didn't put deltas on the thing it wasn't gonna perform Yeah, and then now it's all like triple cross paths flow blah blah blah yeah Yeah, so that's why I'm using it in my personal rig. That's the first radiator I bought for my first water cooling system, so I still have my apogee upstairs I still have no actually my mcp6 350 which is what I got for my first loop is gone, but I still have that radiator in my system So that still remains, so it's just it's one of those relic type things So let's talk Chromebook pixel people have requested this topic have you guys got any familiarity with the Chromebook pixel? Wow you guys just don't get out much It's like sitting in your garage yeah, so Yeah, would you have known about it if you will didn't ask you to know about it No, I would have known of it, but I wouldn't have actually yeah Okay, so I will I'll brief you guys on this so are you what I learned three hours ago Actually three days ago. Oh, okay. Yes, and have forgotten most of Yeah, let me just bring some stuff Yeah, I'm gonna use the power of the internet which I will harness now on my By the way very convenient hunched over computer no ethernet I'm going to use my level 10 paraphrasing skills. Oh Speaking of that yeah, I mean I love this thing. I actually really do aspire s7 is the first notebooks That's actually gotten me excited I Mean have you ever seen me excited about a notebook? No, yeah Love this notebook however. There are some obstacles so today our wireless went down, and I didn't have an ethernet jack and Today we what was the other issue I had oh yeah I had to plug in no micro HDMI out I needed I didn't have the cable and then the other issue was I needed to plug a bunch of peripherals into it to test The included software to do some stuff and it only has two USB ports But other than those five things and the battery ran out today Six things I had to put my thing on it and it well it's a little loud. It's pretty loud It's not loud now right now. Yeah, mind you it's like 11 degrees in here. Yeah, I Just think old ambient cooling. I just go outside when it gets warmed up Okay, so you guys familiar with the original Chromebook where it was that Google Chrome browser? Yeah, super cheapo machine like like like you could kind of like you could kind of put your teeth on it and pry up the Plastic holding down the keyboard now. It's got like crazy good resolution and all this kind of stuff So the Chromebook pixel has a 1080p screen Beautiful beautiful IPS panel it has an aluminum body This is a Chromebook pixel it has a premium feeling keyboard It has like sort of all the bells and whistles it feels like a premium ultrabook But it's a Chromebook so Chromebook if you guys don't remember all the details basically just runs a Chrome browser, and that's it Yeah, it's over a thousand dollars But it has nice like I think screens like 233 PPI or something does it matter no Personally I don't really care about it. You're gonna. You're sort of a crappy co-host if you don't elaborate beyond no No Game guess who where the one chick is mrs. No or something like that always answers no no matter what yeah So if you're like do you have brown eyes? No do you have not brown eyes? No? Everyone always gets that one right away anyway go ahead um okay, so it might be applicable in some places You know the game right? Yeah, yes, I've actually never played it. Oh, it's awesome. I've heard of it, and I've seen it But I don't play it so great commercials great commercials Connect four is an awesome game, too The connect we should get a cop we should not Scott copy look Kids today right Drivers for my computer so I can play connect for any awesome game. We should get like a game. That's our championship Yeah, you'd fly out here for a connect for championship. Yeah, yeah exactly I'd be a good thing to justify the expensive connect for a championship the lightest the best thing is it can beat you because I can Reach the top of it. Oh, sorry Wow ooh Hey, just back and forth at least my company is still operational Which one? The one that you're participating in right now well. Yeah, we're working in six weeks right now. You're doing good That's a long track record actually we're closer to nine weeks. Oh See that's me just being bad with math are we closer to the news yeah? It's anniversary should we go out for like a blizzard or something? Yeah, yeah What anniversary is that paper oil you brought a gift? No, I think aluminum is an average it had to be like like dish rag anniversary table scraps anniversary There's no scraps left over because the only food we can afford to buy we eat at all Like when I have my own business like we'd be out doing something just expensive. I'm like I work for myself You know it's like that kind of comes right back to me. It's like it's like tight in a check like It's like gee I wonder if my boss is gonna approve this when I get back from the trip boss is a jerk yeah We're talking about something. I don't know probably wasn't it was his opinion. Oh, yeah Yeah, not that excited. I don't know it's a lot of money for something. That's just not super awesome I know I found it was in a weird space when it was first released to the original Chromebook Because it's like who's actually going to look at all the options that they have and go okay I want a Chromebook, and I've heard that they've done really really good in different regions. Yeah, because they're low-cost Yeah, but this one doesn't have that but it's a premium It's a little quad. It's a low-cost premium. It almost sounds like a product that was developed And then they tried to find a market for it. Yeah, you know it's like we made this I'm gonna use it. Hopefully this guy will use it. Okay, well here riddle me this then What would you need to do on a notebook? I mean bearing in mind your notebook doesn't run games anyway No, yeah, okay, I was gonna say like at the same time. We're moving a lot towards cloud storage like we don't even use flash drives anymore With the last month we've gone from like we all carried 64 gig flash I carried two 64 gig flash drives you carry I carried one 64 gig one 32 gig and two 16 gigs and like in my pockets all The time and that went from from that to all all cloud within last month I still carry mine because I'm hardcore, but I actually haven't used it How big is yours with it out three terabyte thumb drive Yeah, did that run on your you know your phase change cooling that yeah, I did it There was like there's a wagon behind me all the time I was dragging around a really long extension cord, but you know, it still worked. Yeah USB thumb drive That's actually just a USB cord that runs to like a backpack How awesome would that be like a battery powered like, you know hard drive on your back and it's like it comes out It's got Wi-Fi too and it probably like plugs into your like Google Glass Glasses and powers that too. So you get a reasonable battery life on reality It looks like I'm really looking through a file folder, right? So cool, you know what? Maybe this is the future Wearable batteries that wirelessly charge all of the devices you're carrying all at the same time Huh? Huh? Should we patent it now? Don't get away. Yeah, don't get wet Well, hopefully see what people hiding when it rains like if you're battery over would not be the best test base for But I would still definitely volunteer because that sounds fantastic. Yeah, and if they could make them bulletproof Then it would be that much then you can survive through wars and use your cell phone Kevlar battery vest Because those are two needs that you have right next to each other It's like man that guy's shooting at me and I really need to transfer that file I got a tweet this man. Just a second I said just a second like mark Marcus Phoenix pulls out like a smartphone on the battlefield The Master Chief's like oh, oh Cortana Cortana. I'm running out of battery. You're gonna Cortana's gone. Yeah If only he worn his battery pack vest So, you know what point time though is like to go from like a battery pack to like just like a taser That's when he gets right. It's like laser tech screw that taser tech Yeah, you know there would be some hack to like take the cable from your crazy battery pack just like jam it into someone Would you play okay? I mean is would okay like not with real taser like incapacitating bowel loosening tasers like Not the ones with the darts right? Because it's like I become a sissy when darts get involved. It's really gonna hurt Yeah, okay So if you could actually play laser tag with tasers that hurt like hurt to the point where you get hit in the arm And all your muscles seize up. You punch yourself in the face You punch yourself in the face. Have your gun and just push. Your butt's stroking yourself on the floor It's like if only I could stop pistol whipping myself. Self-induced pistol whips. Stop it dude, come on If you could play laser tag with tasers would that be that different from paintball and would you do it? I would do it. Yeah, you know, we're all like yeah, we try it It's just like when you're playing paintball for the first time the whole time you're out there I kind of want to get shot to see what it feels like but I kind of don't you know Then you get hurt. It hurts. Then like the first time you get hit that somehow misses your mask and hits you in the neck Oh, okay. I don't want to play anymore. I'm kind of an idiot about that kind of stuff though. I'll self admit it I told you my story about breaking my arm You broke your arm playing paintball? My wrist. Oh You're an idiot. So I'm up on the hill. So this is not at all related. Not at all related It wasn't playing paintball. It wasn't like pain induced don't really care just want to still have fun It's I'm up on the hill and I have really thin bones because I grew really fast I haven't grown since like grade 7 or something But I lean back into the snow and my wrist got really badly sprained So I went to the doctor guy on the hill cuz I'm on a school trip and he's like, oh Sounds like a doctor guy on the hill in a van down by the river. He was drunk When yes He wasn't feeling he splints it and he's like, yeah, okay, don't go back on the hill So obviously go back on the hill come back down. He's like, okay. Well, it's worse now Don't go back up. I go back up go back down because I screwed up again. And then he's like, okay Well, it's fractured now. Don't go back up on the hill. So I go back up on the hill It just progressively gets worse and worse. So I would probably play that game You'd probably play that game because that would be only someone told you not to do it though, right? Because let me tell you actually compared to paintball, which is more like it's like a sharp thing It's paint. It's like flicking in the ear, right compared to a paintball an electric Have you ever been zapped by a like a pretty decent electric shock? I was yes I had my hand pinned between someone like hit me Well, I was trying to plug something in and my hand got pinned between a big socket and the wall But they punched you what were you trying to play? I was trying to be a joke So he came up and kidney-shot at me while I was trying to plug in a vacuum And it was pretty bad. How about you you ever had any significant electric shock? I mean those high-powered computers you built probably but what they run on like, you know, 60 volts AC Yeah, we basically had to have our own separate ups is behind I do you wear the ups in a backpack? Yeah, I did I did actually that's how BA Looked like a mech walking through the living room, you know stomping around but no, I've never been tasered I did pepper spray myself Was that to find out what it felt like no, no, I did find out what it felt like though No, it was a thing in college and I was a security guard and the safety on that thing was just got there I kind of accidentally pepper sprayed half of a McDonald's Oh So, okay, so this is totally unrelated but I might as well explain this now so okay I was a security guard at McDonald's. So yeah, I was getting all the ladies and You know some can I take your order and kick you out of the restaurant? Excuse me. My job is to observe. Okay, I'm not gonna interact just observe But like, you know, I'm sitting there and it's on my duty belt, which is a glorious term for security You know duty belt and I go to lean forward and like they have those slatted chairs and I lean forward here all singer What the and I see like a cloud of pepper spray go up. So what do I do? You know, I'm like I could warn people. No, I move around The first thing you want to do is like that could have been me I was over here But like as I'm walking back to the bathroom, I feel my eyes kind of start to like oh, oh, you know But then I'm like I can't be the pepper sprayed security guard at the McDonald's right? Cuz that would just be even more pathetic than just being the security guard at the McDonald's, you know, so You'll say her people start coughing and stuff then I come back out of the bathroom like what's going on out here Someone picked sprayed pepper spray. I'll find them. They're probably outside Let me go drive down to the store and I'll find yeah, so I did that never never been and that kind of might have happened twice The other time was in a call center and I kind of got like I got rid of that pepper spray because it was a bad can It was empty by that too. I'd pepper sprayed 47 people in two incidents I mean honestly like what type of a group kill is that I should get like some sort of award for that Yeah, that must be an achievement And then I actually had to get pepper sprayed not because of bad behavior, but like in police academy I had to get like sensitivity training. Yeah, okay Yeah, so that one was legitimate, but they didn't tazer you in the police training Because I heard that's a thing That's a thing now. We didn't have electricity back Pepper sprays are throwing peppers of people Flintstones and stuff so Okay. Okay. Well, you know what my plan was to tell a stupid story about myself, but that like Yeah, I got nothing so I was gonna say my my best shocked experience was actually an electric fence So it was a horse electric fence. So did you get it? It's not it's not Not what happened so a horse electric fence so those I mean they're not as hardcore as house current But they're a lot worse than the pig ones and like they're designed for a horse to be like, oh, no, thank you. And so anyway, I I'd never how they rate them though. Like do you want pig fence or horse fence? Yeah, I want Buffalo fence You know, absolutely. Absolutely. Really? Yeah. Yeah So the way an electric fence works is it's not it's not a constant current the way that house current is so you have an Opportunity to move away from it So you're not stuck on you're not stuck on it because it causes your muscles to clench up, right? All your muscles to clench up and you couldn't pass a vowel movement if you their life dependent on it. Anyway So wonderful visual Let's talk horse bowels Folks Something a public service announcements like we need to talk about horse bowel movements horse bowels want you It's a very serious problem affecting many horses and some weird people probably your state. Oh really? I didn't even know what the classifications electric fence were. I don't even know what state you're from. So that's good. Whatever so anyway, they they have jolts that come through sort of once in a while and so electric electric shock, it's not so much a sharp pain like a paintball, but it's more of like like Like it like it feels like like like a dull pain So I was feeding the horses and I had one of the buckets and I was I was hanging up one bucket And I was one of the other buckets was sort of off to the side while I hung we had two horses when I was growing up so And also the way an electric shock Works is it has an entry point and an exit point and the one you tend to feel the most is the exit point so I had a friend with me and I'm sitting there hanging up the buckets and I turn around I'm like dude What's your problem? Don't and he's like What and so I'm like so I turn back and like and and he and he kicks me in the butt and I'm like, dude I said not to do that and then he's like what and I finally the third time I'm like What is your problem? And then as I'm turned around looking at me, he's clearly not kicking me. I Feel it again. I'm like, oh, I have the metal strap or the metal hanger Yeah, the bucket up against the fence and it really did feel like someone heaving with like with all of his force and kicking me right in the rear and I was like What is wrong with this guy? Like he's sighted mild-mannered guy never done anything like that before horses make him snap Just hate horses so much the fact that you're feeding them at all Just and you know when you looked and you saw he's too far away to do it for a split second. Oh my god is he telekinetic? How is he reaching me this is scary your story was way more stupid though, and that just made my story just terrible so Chromebook pixel overpriced under functional and Personally, I don't think I'd buy one. It's after 1030. So the live streams over guys You can leave although we kind of started the after party early tonight because we just completely stopped talking about computer hardware And I'll start it with the taser tag. Yeah taser to both taser. I still maintain taser tag would be awesome I think it would you know, you know, like any guy would do it just like you know And you know what the problem is with I mean both laser tag and paintball is people who don't report hits If they had to twitch on the ground a little there'd be no question. Okay, legitimate taser though. That's insane Not quite it have to be but they I mean they have to be like a kid friendly taser Yes, kid friendly and you know what I've always felt that this is pretty stupid about paintball gun hits should not count Yeah gun hits shouldn't count. Why do gun hits count? account for something for Geez, I mean if you take a gun hit in real life, you have an odds are it's not gonna go so well for you Yeah, there's very least you're gonna be out right? Some and if you're firing while it's going off and it hits your barrel you're screwed. Okay, but you're still alive So fine, maybe maybe you take a shot after you've taken a bullet hit to your barrel. You might still be alive Okay, hold on. Hold on. Okay, so let's say Hit, you know, you can you put it down you if you can manage to get back to base you can get another gun Okay, taser tag gun hits wouldn't count But yeah, maybe you might feel them a little bit. Yeah, I'd carry right through. Yeah Yeah, it'd probably be even worse Yeah, that's that's that's actually quite true so I don't really think that we should talk about that anymore There's your point was disproven Okay Now you're using a Define R4 I think we could it's probably safe to say that's a bit of a compromise because you're old and you can't see very well To build a proper computer these days with full liquid cooling all that stuff So but mine runs how's yours doing? Oh Mine oh The trailer queen out there is that we're talking about Wow, you know what? I did a video about that build and people liked it. So there you go. Is it really did you finish the video? Yeah, I finished the video Okay What would you want in a truly high-end case? Would you still to the to this day if you had let's say you had like a week to sit and build it and no one else You weren't allowed to do anything else that week What would you want like how many radiator spots would you want knowing what you know about the actual case design process? How crazy would you go? Would you put phase in it? Would you do tech? No, no Would you go water even? Probably yeah, like yeah, if time was no object Yeah, I'd go water which case on the market today sort of fractal hat off if you can do that Which case on the market today is the closest to what you would use for an extreme? Liquid cool build that you had a week to sit down and work on because I mean fractal cases are great Don't get me wrong. My wife uses a fractal case and it's awesome. It's quiet. It's she's got great taste good air flow She has good taste in most things and But it's not really it's not as modern friendly because there's a lot more teardown that would have to be done To to paint it for example It's not as water cooling friendly. It's not like fractals and have a case that fits a quad rat They just don't that's reality. So how crazy would you go? How many radiators? Where would you put them? See that? That's my thing Yeah, it's gonna be a little bit more realist Yeah, I'm bringing a pimp myself here I would still say I can XLR 2 would probably do most of what I would need to do You know because it can support fat rats which I would still marry I'd still rather do like a fat rad than have like, you know, a 480 or whatever the heck it is, you know, okay 480 You know, the other thing is too. It's like I don't know. I mean Where I go dual loop or single loop or how I'd go about loop is so unnecessary I know but you know, it could be something too Like if you're gonna upgrade graphics frequently if you just want to do that, you don't have to drain your whole loop That's true. You know, I'd probably have like redundant pumps So yeah, stuff like that, but I mean, that's the thing It's like it wouldn't need to be something the size and I'm not knocking it like it like the 900 D I mean it would it could be something like the size of like an XL Yeah, I've honestly also wanted to play with like liquid cooling like a node 304. That would be cool Yeah, I mean you can support like a you know, like H80, Ntx 620, whatever, you know, even a push-pull, you know Okay, but like if I actually went like full open loop But I know I've seen some guys on forums are starting to play with it Res placement might be a little bit tricky, but I've got some ideas on that. You could t-line it Yeah, yeah, you could do that. You could go old school. Yeah, you could go old school Delrin t-line it. Yeah, you know I remember when the colored t-lines came out. Yeah, I said, do you want anodized? Yeah, I'll pay an extra 10 bucks for that Why? but Yeah, I mean I'd like to do that I'd like to do like a liquid coin in a node 304 I think just to try it. Tell me something though Is that the kind of thing you'd build? Just to try it Or is it the kind of thing you'd build to actually use as your daily driver for the next two years? Daily driver for the next two years me personally would probably be like an XLR2 If I was going to liquid cool if you're gonna like if I was gonna liquid cool if you're gonna air cool, what would you pick? Hmm I'd probably go like I've been an arc MIDI R2. You know the thing for me is like he's not gonna pick anything That's not fractal. He knows there are other oh man. It's almost like I work in marketing What are you thinking? But no seriously, I mean for me though, I'm happy with what we make like when I when I looked at joining the company That's what I did is I went out like read all the reviews on the cases to see honestly if there's good stuff Because I wouldn't be able to like go out and speak about stuff. I thought was crap You're not a proper marketing guy at all then. Yeah, I know I have a you're not supposed to be I guess I'm a soul because I'm a ginger. Yeah. Well, you never stood a chance. Yeah, exactly Exactly Anyway Lights in this garage Lights in this garage. They're not tanning lights. No, they're really not Exactly. It's like we all look sickly. We're all like I really just need some penicillin in a sandwich But yeah, I think I like for The reason I want to go with the XLR 2 is just like there's so much room in it You know their committee our tube works really well Would you cut up the XLR 2 like would you make any modifications to it? That's the thing is like it's like the awesome like blank canvas, right? I mean and that's like like we got voted in on like I think you like overclocked that net awards the Community Choice Awards for like the different categories like one of them is a like most model case and it's like we get a lot of appreciation from the modding community for like the r4 just being so Minimalistic right like it's such a blank canvas like you can do whatever you want to like there's not even like branding on it, right? I mean, we don't have a logo on it And actually with our committee are to the logo is easily removed if you want to do that So we okay, you know, so we've gone that route But yeah, I probably would now would I have the ability to really heavily mod it probably not I'm not like a Dremel King or anything like that. I go like bill Owen or someone But what about you? Well, you were gonna finish a build what would you do? Thank you for that I'm liking these these are good. You can stay Any more guests? I hate you. I'm looking dodges off goes to his laptop. Yeah, like typical anti-social behavior hunch over yeah, I Better friends on the internet They're nice to me. They send me Twinkies All right, so this is something actually sorry I am gonna I'm gonna kill the after party because these guys are poor sports and I'm gonna move into another topic that I Wanted to talk about mega pixels on cell phones. Is that something that's been driving you crazy for the last few years? How it keeps going like this? Yeah, and the benefit keeps doing what? Yeah, I know I want like the thing is like with them like when the new phones come out I mean like 13 megapixel camera Yeah, and like who is it they have like the the kit where you can like slap the lens on the back of your phone There's a lot of people there's a lot of Doesn't even matter what phone you get this third parties It'll be like like and stuff like that like I'm gonna go ahead and put a $700 lens on the back of my Galaxy s3. Did you ever see the the holder for iPhone? That's like a yeah Like the shoulder pod holder for iPhone Yeah, I saw some guy who came with a custom-made one. He went to packs and he was reporting on it and he had a mic Done up through this weird like crazy setup that went through USB to his phone And then he had like a shoulder pod for it It was like a shoulder pod but not like the like presses against your shoulder one that we have it was like a rides on His shoulder shoulder. Yeah, I don't like hangs. Yeah. Yeah, I was like that is Fantastic because you have this tiny little phone with like all this crap I can't get back to the thin and light thing right only weighs like seven grams But you know everything else with the waist for this one little like metal pipe handle That is a component of this huge elaborated elaborate thing weighs ten times more than the phone So guys more megapixels on phones is not necessarily a good thing because sensor size is everything you can't change Physics the bigger the object that you get to blast with light the more light it can capture Period I mean you can throw bigger lenses on it to capture more light and bring that down to a small object But the ability of that object Capture more light depends on the size of the sensor at the end of the day and phone sensors while they've been finding ways to manufacture them with more megapixels that is to say more capture points in that tiny little spot actually Haven't really been getting any bigger and the lenses in front of them are always going to be garbage I mean garbage compared to obviously a lens this big because the lens stack is like this and it's not like you can build them out of the highest quality glass optics because Like what would that add to the bomb cost of a phone? Yeah, you get the photo versions like an upcharge of 1200 bucks like another seven years contract However, they want to go about it. It's like it's like really yeah Are you kidding when you don't make the lens out of plastic? It's a big problem Well, and really all that for drunken bar photos that you put on Facebook. Yeah duck face So so okay, so the new HTC one is actually the first phone that's trying to say okay We're not gonna play the megapixel race anymore, or we're not gonna participate in the megapixel race anymore So they've taken their new phone and I believe it has did it did it did it did it um What was it? Ah crap? I can't remember how many megapixels it is, but it's actually less than current generation phones whereas we have actually like 13 megapixel phones coming out in the market because They're saying that with the larger pixels. You're actually able to capture more light per pixel Which is giving better low light performance versus if you have these little little little tiny pixels that actually individually can't capture much light So I'd like you guys to check out these photos which I will of course increase the brightness on my monitor So you can actually see them Maybe I should show maybe I should show them so this is a low light scenario competitor one competitor to in the HTC one Part of part of an interesting article on an antek that I saw was about how is it actually possible? For these 13 megapixel tiny sensors. Hopefully you guys can see this the top one is brighter That's pretty much the point is it possible Just make it up for these tiny foam sensors that are 13 megapixels to even resolve like are they as big as? The amplitude of a light wave right and they were smaller So wait when you're waiting your pixel is actually smaller than the thing that's supposed to hit it What you're actually doing is you're just oversampling because it's gonna hit three of them at a time They're all gonna capture the same thing so you're just sampling something multiple times. It's like if you had a monitor that was 1600 by 1200 and then you were gonna run 400 by 300 content on it It's exactly the same thing the problem with this though is conveying that to the public properly because like 90 billion percent Photo dorks already knew this I know but photo dorks aren't 99% How do you convince your mom that her new cell phone doesn't have to know how do you convince someone that when they're looking at? A spec list for phones that a higher number isn't better So I think basically I I admire what they're trying to do because anyone who's trying to buck the the trend That's just like sort of a death spiral trend where the higher the megapixels go actually the worst the experience is going to be I kind of I give kudos to them for having the guts to take a flagship phone and Say no look we're actually gonna do what's better for the user experience versus what's not I mean unlike what his systems always did Where they just took the most expensive stupid thing threw it together in a box and then sold it to some poor sap Who doesn't know what to do with his money or yours really don't yeah exactly ours ran Step number one we beat you We could benchmark ours, but you know the thing is that that's going on You know the age-old perception versus reality right if two is good four is better eight is you know better? so it's easier to play on that than to try and go in and like challenge established norms you know because You know in marketing that's where you had constantly have problems is you only have people's attention span for such a short period of time How do you convey that complex of an idea or an idea that flies in the face of what is? Conventional wisdom whether it's right or not, so how do you do that okay here? Tell me something? What's a trend that fractal has bucked? That you've had trouble convincing people is good I'll let you think about that for a moment while we do some Twitter questions because this is actually this is something I'm actually interested in getting a real answer to What is slicks real first name? He looks like holy crap? Can you believe he got that right? That's incredible Yeah Pretty sweet stream especially because I watched it live, but so much off-topic. Yeah, we know it's Yeah, it's me. It's always me Josh looks like the Steel series guy, okay? mix paintball with laser tag with water or Conductive with taser tag with conductive fluid paintballs like your grenadier has like ceiling bombs Sean Awesome, oh, okay. I was wrong. Sorry the chrome pixel is 1700p so it's a super high resolution actually I don't know if that's right, but it's some super high resolution per inches pretty amazing Yeah, it's it's outstanding, and there's a there's a bunch of bunch of like cloud storage. That's included. You know what yeah They include three years of one terabyte cloud storage to me It's almost like it's like that first hit of like crack Where it's like suck you in yeah, it's trying to get you dependent on cloud storage. I love cloud storage I use cloud storage all the time we use almost exclusively you're still thinking about that right yes, okay? We use almost exclusively cloud storage internally at at my company, which is better than biohazard for any kind of sharing documents or backups because it is extremely handy to be able to access it anywhere I Don't think I'm at the point where I would pay for cloud storage And I was just going to say in saying that what we're using for our backups and internal documents is just that internal Documents yes, we don't upload anything other than like excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint because look at it this way If I was were to go oh, I want to keep my games in the cloud hello. It's called steam You download them whenever you want. Oh, I want to keep my music in the hello. It's called iTunes or Microsoft service whatever that subscription based one for a hundred bucks a year you play whatever you want like The cloud goes way is way better than some goofy folder somewhere that you drop things into you're not going to use that What you should be doing is building yourself a nas with that money because as soon as you make yourself Dependent on a cloud storage solution like Google Drive for only ten dollars a month you can use that For only ten dollars a month you can get this oh you need more oh now it's thirty dollars a month oh now It's forty dollars a month. Oh wait. You just spent five hundred dollars this year Guess how many terabytes of hard drives you can buy for five hundred dollars at this point Okay, let's even say two hundred dollars two hundred dollars buys you a raid five array. That's probably about six terabytes you know how hard it is to set up like a Share on your computer that you can access from anywhere so cloud storage is great cloud storage is cool But I don't like the idea of tying myself to that's that's why Google wants you to buy a chrome book Because then all of a sudden you are a life for customer for the entire lifetime of that device Which has no storage and if you think about it Yeah, it's like say you managed to even get like half a terabyte into the cloud and your three years is up Are you gonna switch like no? I'm not gonna try and download half a terabyte of data and put it somewhere else now Yeah, you're gonna stick with it. It's gonna be easier for you to spend that monthly fee and just be like oh I'll do it next month. That's already there. Yeah, it's like I'll do it next month. And then even when you go Oh, I don't really have the money right now. Maybe what I'll do is all I'll download everything and then I'll oh wait Because you haven't been buying hard drives all this time. You don't have any space to download I've got a hundred and twelve thumb drives over here Then I'm gonna start splitting everything on and then that becomes a disaster because you are going to lose a file 100% when you go from one backup solution to another anything that takes longer than like an hour You're gonna create a new revision of some file that you're gonna forget which one you backed it up to you're gonna overwrite something Yeah Unless you lose something enterprise classing like autover or something that does like file checking and basically redundancy and it ages all your files And it's like, okay So then if you go ahead and pull in that enterprise class solution then the free cloud storage that you had for three years is no and void I hired a consultant to come in the data recovery team $7,000 later. I'm glad I got the free Terabyte story. So I mean cloud is cool. And I mean things like my phone, you know what? It's really neat You know picking up a new iPhone plugging it into iTunes and going or not plugging it into iTunes rather using iCloud and go All your stuff's on it. Don't worry about it Linus. We got this taken care of But I mean seriously how hard would it be to just plug it into iTunes and then have it download all the apps and Transfer my music back over like really so I saved myself an hour. What's your time worth to you? How often are you gonna do that? Well, I'll tell you like the funny thing too is about you know anything cloud-based is it's awesome You know, I do the same thing for a lot of our files Especially when you have like disparate devices like if I'm on the road It's like oh I want to be able to grab something off my drop box or whatever And then you don't have internet access and then all of a sudden the cloud sucks really hard Yeah, you know, it's like, okay, that's great that I have it remote But you know at least with Dropbox usually have like a local solution, but you know pure cloud It's like it's great until there's some sort of problem with internet Until you have like, you know a 500 meg file that you have to tether your phone to Your data charges Oh dear god, it's not so free anymore now So, yeah, and I mean that and I have a lot of fun with it And I have my own sort of misgivings about cloud in general for those of you who don't know My youtube account got hijacked. I guess it must have been a couple years ago at this point and it kind of drove home Oh if something goes wrong with a cloud storage solution, whether it's someone obtaining my login somehow or whether it's you know, what? Nobody's nothing's infallible if something disastrous happened Stuff can go down You never had any control over it with my backup solution and mine's kind of extreme where I have an eight drive raid six here And then I have an eight drive raid five somewhere else with nightly sinks That's a little extreme, but you can use something like what's that freaking thing called? That uh that that cheap solution where you just have two friends and you run it on each other's computers and then you back up to each other uh Don't remember I don't remember but whatever it's I mean that's as cheap as You know getting together with a buddy and being like hey if I buy a hard drive and you buy a hard drive Let's back up to each other and let's you know for 50 bucks or 60 bucks We can back up more than we'd be able to do with you know A few months of what we'd have paid for cloud storage to fight with that buddy and we know where well I wouldn't back up the pictures of your girlfriend to it. Oh, I appreciate that I didn't mean your girlfriend. I mean I wasn't going to mention your girlfriend on the stream because your wife might see it Yeah, I know. I know I haven't maybe met her yet. But you know Is your wife watching the stream or was she too starstruck by my celebrity and the fact that I still have a company that I'm running and you don't starstruck or nauseous. I don't know. You know the fact that it's two hours ahead. No, she's not watching this In fact, she has taste. She's not watching this Uh 2560 by 1700. Okay. There you go. I was wrong, but it's definitely not worth 1300 bucks. Yeah, good point Uh, yep, what happened to your video the unboxing of the lindos surface rt? It's gone No, it isn't must be the cloud probably you too blame it on the cloud Wrong resolution on pixel. Yep. Sorry my bad You need to be a log into the forum to be able to load the picture. So that's stupid. Can we change that? Maybe okay cool. That must be a new thing with vb5 gold. Yeah, right. We're running v bulletin 5 gold Which is their? Out of beta release. There's still like what 400 pending things There's there's a lot of stuff still broken b bulletin. Come on guys Please fix your stuff Just let you know. Oh, okay when you swap the browser view. Yep. Yep. Yep. Got it. I got it Well, let's see if there's any more twitter questions and sort of cool do I own ncix if so you must be rich I own ncix. Do you own ncix like the uh, you can be a co-owner if you want actually no you can be a co-owner Oh, yeah done good doing cool exactly. So the nerdy computer Interactor interactive alliance the x is for alliance. Like is that what you own? When x can replace anything Name tom just call me x x is a variable. Yeah, exactly. It can literally replace anything. Mr Not so good at math guy right a little tidbit doesn't the x and ncx just literally not stand for it Yeah, it actually literally doesn't stand. It's nothing. So I was I was borrowing a page from their playbook No, I do not own ncix. In fact, I don't work there anymore. So Definitely don't own it Um with the ps4 having eight gigs of gddr5 by the way Do you think the next 10 blah blah blah will support ddr5? No, they won't because this was gddr5 which we already have So the ps4 is actually going to be sharing that eight gigs between the cpu and the graphics card So this is the first time I've heard of an x86 cpu using gddr memory So that must have taken some kid jiggering. Yeah Apple talked about how more pixels isn't better when they introduced iphone 4s and continue. Okay. All right. All right Well Apple setting the trends as usual I suppose Just do a home server. It's your own personal cloud. Yes What should I get Skype siphon mine to or antac 620 closed loop cooler? Uh 620 is a thin rad. I would probably get a get a decent air cooler rather than rather than going that route unless you want like um More heat and better looks Yeah, you want a water heater I mean honestly, uh, you know, have we added a thin rad liquid cooling loop to our results? um spreadsheet Don't think so not particularly thin And okay, we should probably do that because I think people are going to be pretty um surprised There's a we can bring up we're going to be retesting a whole bunch of the stuff with the h220. Yes, swift tech h220 We're gonna so swift tech is pretty adamant that there's no way that there's a 20 degree celsius difference Between their helix fans and our noctua nff12s and I actually agree that's That's kind of insane. Like I looked at slick's numbers because he's the one who actually ran the tests and I went That can't be right. So I kind of stood there and supervised and then it was right, but we were having some issues There was pump problems. Yeah with the pump running at full speed It never actually managed to properly bleed the loop So you always had air switching through through the pump. So swift tech Was like oh, well that wouldn't cause a 20 degree swing to which I actually Don't I don't agree with that at all because I've seen And no bleeding Yeah, I mean it's it's a liquid core for a reason if you have air in it, you know You're losing capacity, right? So that and I've seen pumps in the past that actually pretty much stop working at all If they have a reasonable size air bubble caught in them where they'll be moving the fluid around but it's like Yeah, like yeah So I think it's possible that by running the pump so high because remember the h220 doesn't have a dedicated rez It's not as easy to bleed the air from it. It's got a rez that's built into the radiator so Maybe the pump got burned so bad by well not burned it didn't burn but it got I don't know whatever Gingered so bad that it wasn't working properly to the point where temperatures went completely out of control So, you know, we're gonna retest everything we're gonna test not only uh helix fans And and we did speak about not releasing those results. Yeah, like internally we discussed just going Well, you know what our standard test bench has knocked to us Yeah, the um The reason why linus decided to actually end up releasing those results was because we just thought we would show all of our work And we did mention that the pump was on full speed We did mention that we're using stock fans, but it was still not conveyed properly from us I guess in the end what was actually going on in that test? So we're going to do a bunch more tests and try and be more concise Here's a great question from bob and I know it's about uh, it's about future products So in theory you couldn't answer it but uh, he asks the question Are you guys planning on making a case that could hold two atx motherboards? I think you probably have a pretty safe answer to that one Unless you are Man, how does he know? No, uh at this time I can tell there's no plans for that So The reply as to why anyone would want that is one system for gaming and one for linux And having them in two cases would save space Or when one case would save space yeah two cases wouldn't save any space at all Two cases wouldn't save any space at all. No, probably not. It's a space seems powerful enough that it doesn't need to be saved Well, it's been around for a while captain planet didn't care about space at all, did he? If it has a great show if you're running a whole system for gaming and then your second system for linux What are you running on there? If the really low end system just build a tiny little computer Yeah, get like a raspberry pi Well, it might be running a little bit heavier than that Uh, slick's not a big fan of the raspberry pi would you care to elaborate? I've this unpopular opinion by the way So be ready for that. I just I'll hate you. Well kind of threw me on the spot. I don't have one So I haven't actually tested it. Under the bus. That's the spot where I like to throw you anyways. Yeah, I can see it coming right now. Yeah Um, I just i'm not a huge fan of the really really low power low end computer little micro thing I like arduino controllers because there's interesting functionality that you can get from them And they're kind of like just placing different circuit boards together and creating something awesome And it's usually creating more of a hardware controller aspect. The raspberry pi is a little linux computer Just not super interested in a super low power super low end computer Okay, tell me this what are your feelings on toolless versus Screwed in designs for cases. Uh, this is a really good point that one of the uh, one of the four members made Where he goes I have a define r3 and a node 304. So he's seriously a fractal user. Good job um, but Putting in and removing hard drives is a bit of a pain So he actually counts how many screws he has to remove to get a hard drive in and out Of either of those systems and it's 8 and 11 So he asks are you guys planning to go toolless for your entire range of products now? I should be careful josh cannot say anything about plans for future products But how would you personally feel about toolless designs versus tooled designs and i'll pitch in my own two cents here at some point Okay, uh, you know anything that's going to be done should be done. Well, um There are a lot of really crappy toolless Designs out there just terrible that I mean It runs the range from like they don't work the way they should when you're trying to get something out to where you almost Have to go get a tool to pry the dang thing out. I've done that Yeah to ones where remember the old thermal take one that green and purple one Yeah, well and then there's things where it's like the flip side is okay The ones that like basically have no retention mechanism whatsoever like the teeth barely engage and it's like, okay Your system's fine as long as you don't move it or pick it up or try and transport it somewhere You have hard drives sliding out. So You know with us we we generally try and perfect everything before we kick it out So we're really I guess really picky in that regard Um, I wouldn't say that we're not looking at that. Um Yeah, I can't yeah, obviously go into details about what we are We are not doing but you know, we've heard that a lot. So it's it's always on the drawing board So here's my take. Uh, personally if I was to contribute something to fractals plans Um, particularly for hard drives. I actually haven't seen a tool list mechanism that I Okay, there's one that's pretty good cooler masters is pretty good because the sleds are very lightweight They actually don't stick in very well until you put a hard drive in them and then they're extremely solid And I can't remember if cooler masters does or not But there are ones that besides being toolless give you the option to pop a screw or two into them Which I really do like so if you have toolless, I'd love for it to also accommodate tools And the reality of it is I haven't encountered a single toolless design That actually holds the hardware in as safely and as well as a good old-fashioned screw Well, and you know, honestly myself it's like, you know, I tend to swap out components quite a bit And obviously this might be a different usage scenario, but You know, it's not something i'm doing every day You know, it's not something where it's such a routine thing that it's that big of a pain for me now Obviously, you know if a lot of our customers feel that way, you know, let us know hit us up on facebook or wherever But you know, it's it's one of those guy pimping up It's it's one of those guy pimping his facebook here. Why do you even have it posted up? No, you don't I see how you are But no, speaking of speaking. Okay. You know what? We actually I forgot to do this at all tonight. So here we go This video is brought to you by our trusted partner intel For a limited time only with the purchase of any unlocked core i5 or core i7 intel cpu Get a free intel beanie with a chance to win an intel snowboard Valid for canadian and us customers only some restrictions apply For complete details visit intelgamingpromo.com Yay sponsored spot Okay, so sorry you were saying something interesting Uh, probably not interesting but I was saying something Um, yeah, so I gotta figure out how to make that smoother Well the segue And segue Yeah, yeah We're now doing this In case you're curious boom this is what we're doing But you know, I think what you know what it comes down to is you know You know, let us know honestly if you guys really want tool-less stuff I mean we've obviously we've always looked at it How hard is it to go grab a screwdriver? So here's been my thing for the longest time Someone's always going to argue whatever I say Because there's always some situation out there where you don't It's like okay when's the last time you put a motherboard in and not use a screwdriver You know and it's like you okay you can use thumb screws and do whatever you want to do Oh come on You could I'm just saying someone's probably gonna say that you could But you should not And I mean honestly what are the odds of getting your fingers in there anyway? Okay, well you can't see but there's like a heat sink here it's like By the time you fight with that you could have gone and gotten a screwdriver and done it properly Yeah Personally I like screwing in hard drives anyways Because the second you try and put on some stupid flimsy tool-less thing I'm worried about my hard drive Yeah I'm just I want to just screw it in I don't know I'm not a fan of tool-less stuff at all Yeah so it's one of those things like it seems like it makes things a lot quicker But I guess You know again at the end of the day for me it's not something that I swap out a lot And generally the feedback we've gotten from most of our customers up until now has been You know it's not that big of a thing It seems honestly like it's more like a bullet point feature point on a product list Than like an actual usability feature Because again you know if it doesn't work right Then you know it's not that big of a thing It's not that big of a thing So again you know if it doesn't work right Then it's just going to be a source of frustration And I mean the only really good Tool-less implementations I've seen even for things like side panels I think Corsair 600T Is actually a great tool-less side panel Implementation Two nice solid latches They are solid They actually clip into place I mean tool-less it doesn't hold the side panel on as well as Tools most as screws most of the time So if you're like jamming cables behind the Motherboard tray and you're trying to get a tool-less panel Back on it's just not going to work Whereas with that one you actually Clipped into place And like the clips on the bottom were solid It looks ugly It's in the way It's all over your side panel And that was what people complained about with that case So you look at it and you go Okay well like What's the balance between something that's Highly visible and something that's convenient I don't remember Lee & Lee you know back in the day They used to do it where they had like the captive Thumb screw that was attached to the rail So it's like you don't do the thumb screw And you slide the rail back and you pop out It's like the teeth instead of being on the side That was so finicky though Yeah and it was still like okay get the panel on And kind of push on it a little bit and kind of hammer on it And it was made of aluminum so if you pressed on it Too hard the stupid thing on the back bent And that's the thing And then it had a little loop like in case you wanted to lock your side panel on Like that's a concern But you know the thing is There's a lot of ideas out there That are very good on paper but In practice they just don't pan out Because like you said to do it securely enough You know it's probably not the most Visually pleasing solution And to do the most visually pleasing solution Is probably not secure enough And if you end up with a themed case like This one so this is a Vengeance C70 From Some other case company From Corsair so if you're doing a themed build Where you can go oh yeah well let's make it look like An ammo box That's a way that you can build something That's actually solid enough Holds the panel in place and doesn't Look out of place but let's face it Swedish Design would that allow for Clips like this on the side of the case Well you know honestly I think that Most designs You always want to incorporate whatever you can And keep that whole design Ethos going right whether it's more of like a Blingy case or you know A flamboyant gaming case or whatever But yeah it's definitely Still going to fit the overall theme of what you're Doing so yeah It's very it seems like it would be something To be very easy to implement and it is But to implement it right is a whole Other thing so anything tool-less basically Amounts to a lever or a latch Somewhere and Minimalistic design is not Necessarily conducive to that Well if we could do it in a way that you know It would fit the design scheme If you could have like a lever like a latch on the bottom of the case Something like that could work like the side panel That actually opened up from the bottom Out or Or something sliding in like that I mean if you could make it still look clean Then that might be the solution but I think it's probably getting pretty Late so there's a couple more comments from viewers Unless you guys had any other topics you wanted to discuss I'm tired You must be tired Actually do you sleep? I don't really know I have a flight in Seven hours All right Found it Do you use a CM Storm Trigger? Could you recommend it? No it's okay Greetings from Germany I just got up and it's 7.30 here thank you for joining us Ah here Sean O says Just made a build with the R4 amazing case Thank you Sean We've got a Actually if you guys are not Already subscribed to the YouTube channel Tech Quickie Go subscribe I have a video coming out about exactly This topic right here I still do work For NCIX I still do Do work for them although I How do I I do NCIX Tech Tips for them Yes I Should do more outdoor unboxings Yeah it's really cold and really wet I know NCIX handles the gift card giveaways But I still haven't gotten my gift card you should contact Them about it how do you learn about computer Hardware besides being a slave like slick You do kind of work me Ridiculous hours I work you? Doesn't feed you That sounded just wrong Thank you