 MUSIC Yeah! Yes! Hello! Hello! Hi! Hello, humans. How are you? I'm Josh Topolsky and welcome to On the Verge. Very excited to have you here. This is our first of many shows. We have a million planned. So literally, that's how many we have planned. We're very happy to be here. We're very happy you guys could be here with us. Give a round of applause to DJ Trent, who you may know as our podcast producer. We have a big show for you. Some really cool stuff. Some demos, some giveaways. Matias Duarte from Google is here. We're going to talk about, I don't know, Android phones or something. So I think we should just get underway. I want to bring out two people who really need no introduction. In fact, when I think of people who at least need an introduction, these are the two people that I think of. Please welcome Paul Miller and Nilay Patel. Nilay Patel. Paul Miller. We've been perfecting those hugs for years. A lot of practice. It's the most manly kind of hug. So you guys remember Paul and Nilay? We used to do a lot of things together before they left me. Fishing trips. Fishing trips. That's right. Long walks and bea- Gotta stop that. Goodbye, Patel. Anyhow, so we don't normally do this show, although we are going to do it on a regular basis. We run a news site, as you may have heard. It's called theverge.com. You should check it out. Though I don't know how you got here or why you're here, if you don't know what it is. That would be bizarre. But we actually want to talk about some news. It's been a crazy week of news. A ridiculous week of news. And we had some big reviews go up. I think one of the biggest ones was the Kindle Fire, which is Amazon's new tablet I wanted to talk about. We actually have one right here. Just a little guy. Just a- You coined the phrase mini tablets. Yeah, I coined the phrase mini tablets. Can you guys see that? Is that close enough? It's very small. Oh no, I don't want to shut it down. This is actually one of my complaints. They put the power button on the bottom. So that's what it looks like. If you've ever seen a playbook, highly, highly similar. But unlike a playbook, it's actually kind of good. Is that rude? It's doing, you know, it has content. Yeah, it's got content. It's $200. It has all of Amazon's ecosystem plugged into it. Does not have any Google stuff. So there's no Android market. There's no- There's no Gmail. Gmail. It's a killer for you. It's a killer for me. There's no Google Maps. Well I feel like the deal with it is that Apple has this line that PCs and Macs are trucks and the iPad is a car. And this is kind of like a motorcycle. You've been dying to say that. Dying. I've been waiting. It's a motorcycle. Yeah, it's like fun and cheap and you can't take it everywhere. You can't do a lot of stuff with it. It's cool. It's not an iPad killer. This is what I said when I reviewed it. It's not an iPad. But for $200, Paul and I were talking about this last night because he reviewed the Kindle Touch. So for $500, which is the price of an iPad, you can buy two fires and a touch. Yeah, whole family. That covers your entire family. Whole family is entertained. Yeah. I mean it's not as good as the iPad. And all those great multiplayer Android games would be awesome. Are you making fun of the lack of multiplayer Android games? Did I Android burn you? But yeah, I think you did. But so I was actually- So before we did the review, I didn't know if people really knew about the fire, if they were aware of this. I mean you guys know because you're super smart and handsome. But regular humans. And so we actually went to, because you're super humans obviously, but we actually went to Union Square and asked people if they were going to get the fire, if they knew of it. And we got some pretty interesting responses. So check out this clip. Excuse me, would you guys like to answer some questions about gadgets? No? Yeah. Okay. People are kind of reluctant to talk about tablets. It's a very sensitive subject. The truth is it's a very personal decision. And a lot of people don't want to talk about it on camera. It's understandable. Excuse me, would you- Can I talk to you for a second about gadgets? No. Are you a tablet owner? Do you have one now? I have an iPad. Yeah. Would you consider getting the Kindle Fire? If I didn't have an iPad. No, I'm looking at getting one of the Samsung Galaxy Tabs. I'm hoping for the 7.7. I actually am possibly in the market after considering that I did not want an iPad. I feel Apple is a little too complex. Oh, really? Okay, no, that's not true. You're a Microsoft fan girl? No, that's not true. I'm great. Is there a Kindle Fire? No, we're not. Is there a Kindle Fire? No, we're just interviewing people about asking them about the Kindle. I have my Kindle and I thought you could give me an upgrade. How about you? Kindle Fire? Do you know what it is? Do you want one? This is the first time I've ever heard of a Kindle Fire. The first time you've ever heard of it? Apple's the only thing that I really know about that. Really? You know, we have a person here who hates Apple. Do you guys want to talk about this at all? Do you know what the Kindle Fire is? I do know what a Kindle is, but I didn't know the addition of the Fire. Are you thinking about getting a tablet? I want to, yeah. Do you have a budget for that? Well, graduation present, right? Hey, mom and dad, you know? Okay, what's your name? T-Rave. T-Rave? That's your act God given name, really? Yes, yeah. T-Rave. Do you know what the Kindle Fire is? Yes. Okay. Are you getting one? Maybe. It looks very intriguing. You don't have a tablet right now? I have a Barnes & Noble Nook Color. Okay. You're not happy with the Nook Color? Well, I hacked it and I had fun with it and now it's time to run. What did you do? How did you hack it? I put just another Android ROM on it. What ROM? The MIUI. I'm really bad with technology. Really? What about gifts for friends or family? Any interest in that? I think it seems like a really good idea, but if I can't use it, I feel bad giving it to someone else because then maybe they can't use it. Right. So you're just going to stick with traditional gifts? Yeah. Like wood? Yeah, absolutely. Steel, gold, that kind of thing. Okay. What's your name? Simon. Do you know, Simon, do you know what the Kindle Fire is? Yes, I've heard of it. Would you consider buying me a Kindle Fire this holiday season? Yes. You would? Yes, I would. That is awesome. You're my new favorite person in the entire world. Well, there you have it. Even kids want the Kindle Fire. It's a fact. And I was... I like, my favorite guy is T Rave. Oh, yeah. Did you catch T Rave? That's his name. Is it T underscore Rave? T dash Rave. He tweeted at you, right? He tweeted at me after that. He's totally plugged in. Did once you hit the T Rave scene? But what was crazy about this was, so not only do people know the Fire, but they're like talking about Android tablets. More than one person was like, I'm thinking about getting an Android tablet, which to me suggests a shift, a seismic shift in the market. It's all over for Apple. Well, they're finished. At $200, no matter what you say about the Fire, it's going to be a huge Christmas. It's a no-brainer. Yeah. It's not a no-brainer. Impulse buy. How do you feel about it? Because you're like an E Ink dude. You love reading. You like E Ink. I reviewed the Kindle Touch, and I think that's just, it's old technology now. It's a low resolution screen comparatively. It's not as responsive as an LCD. We're waiting for a high resolution E Ink to come out, but until then, I would. Yeah, but the cheap one is like $80. Yeah, they're just giving them away. But I just don't really enjoy reading on E Ink. Well, they're like $80. It's not free. It's nothing. If they were giving them away, it would be free. Everybody gets it. You understand the concept of giving things away, right? Really. So anyhow, but obviously the mobile space is crazy. Amazon is now a tablet maker, so their role has changed. But everybody's trying to kind of get a foothold in this. And Paul, you looked at something Microsoft is trying to claw their way back into the smartphone game. They did a 55 foot tall, just giant Windows phone in Herald Square. A huge Windows phone. Yes. I measured it, or I calculated it. Yeah, with a huge memory tape out. Like about 60 foot diagonal screen at a 1088 by 616 resolution. And how many did they have, like what, 50 people working inside of this? They had like 110 staff. They had 110 people working in it. Windows phone is super easy to use. For the 55 foot Windows phone. Yeah, per tile that's like, I don't know, 25 people. And is it still there? Get in, get out. It was there for one day. They had 110 people build a 55 foot Windows phone for one day. They've got the money. That's a waste of money. But you went, you actually shot some video there. We should take a look at this clip. It's really interesting. Paul took a visit and he kind of went hands on with the Windows phone. Check this out. Hey, we're here with Aaron Woodman from Microsoft in New York City. And behind us is the world's largest Windows phone. Do you know the pixel density on this? I don't. I think it's about a thousand pixels up and about 616 pixels. Not enough pixels basically. Not enough pixels. We're going to take a tour. Let's go take a tour. Sweet. This is the control room. Back here actually you can see a lot of people actually doing some of the screens that drive the live tiles. There's about 110 people that have been here for about four days. Just like inside of a real Windows phone. This is the identical insides of a Windows phone. This is like what the iFixit guys feel like every time they go inside. Well you made it to the top. That's a good sign. There's a chair so I can relax for a little bit. Which tile are we inside right now? Actually I think it changes. But which tiles are... I don't know actually. No but like what is it? What are the actual live tiles that are going to be up there? Can you make a call from us right now? So this is actually the top stage. As you can see this is extremely safe. Yes. I mean you wouldn't fall with a steel cable like that would you? No not at all. This is my dream. My mom was like you'll never make it as a live tile. Yes I can do a live tile. You can make a call from inside of a phone using a phone. Right that's what it's saying. On operating system called Windows phone. Can I just call somebody? Go ahead. To make a call tap an icon below. I got it. You're going to call your mom. Oh you guys are going to pay the bill. That kind of sucks. A little bit. We got a lot of production here. A lot of production. I think you might be missing some of the essentials. I'm Paul Miller and I have a live tile and I belong here. I was born in this city. I was born to make phone calls and express myself. Not really. I was actually born in Springfield Missouri. Do you know where Jason Warren is from? I don't. Did you prepare that monologue? Yeah. I was born here. A lot of rehearsal. Yeah. So do you think this is helping them? Is this going to make Windows phone a household name? I don't think so. No. I think they need a little more than that. They should be spending the money on I don't know trying to get that Nokia phone sold at America. That would be a great. The Lumia 800. Yes. It's like this seems like just a waste. Am I crazy? It just seems like a huge waste of money. They're going to double sales. What is the impact of the giant Windows phone? Screen size. If you're looking for screen size. So, Mila, you reviewed the Droid Razr. This is the last of its kind really. Yeah. I mean it's the last to have it. It's very, very thin. Do you guys know about this? So Motorola has brought back the Razr brand and they've made a very thin. The thinnest they say the thinnest smartphone. It's thinner than an iPod Touch. It's thinner than an iPod Touch. It's an LTE phone on Verizon and you reviewed it. I reviewed it. You know it's they had to make some sacrifices to make it this thin. One of them is the display quality and that kind of is disappointing. Did they have to sacrifice the display quality? Well, you know the HTC Razr came out. It has a 720p display. It's LCD. It's literally twice as thick. Yeah, exactly. So you believe that they had to shave away. Right. It kind of doesn't matter how thin you are if you have a terrible face. That's exactly how I feel. Wow. You know and that's kind of like looking at this phone is it's not attractive. Milla applies that to everything. It's not just phones. Yeah, that's day to day. World disturbing. I walk around just like you're very thin but totally busted in the face. Not so good. You know so they've been doing some advertising for these. Extremely strange. A little weird, right? Like we're used to droid ads that are different. Yeah. This one seems especially. They're finally getting away from like the robots killing people. Yeah, they're getting away from the robots killing people but I don't feel like they're going in the right direction. No. Could we actually, we have one of these commercials. Could we take a look at this? I don't get that. I think they nailed it. I just don't. It feels wrong to me. I mean the hand ripping through the grave, that's fine. It's the woman screaming that I think. The shriek, the horrific female shrieking in the background says to me this is not a phone I want to bring home. No. Unless they're like shrieks of joy. But this is it. It's over because the Galaxy and Axis is coming. I mean they're going to upgrade it. Whoa. Nerds. It's not a nerds but it's audience. I love that people will cheer the Galaxy and Axis. I mean number one best thing about this group of people. That's it actually. It's the only good thing about this group of people. No I'm kidding. You're wonderful probably. But I'm excited. I wrote this thing on the site actually. We brought back this is my next for the verge which is I'm talking about how I really want to get the Galaxy and Axis. 720p display. I mean this can't really hold up to that. I mean if you buy this today, you're buying this like Moto Blur. You're buying this phone so you can just hold it to people and be like look at how thin my phone is. And I don't think that's useful. I have a Galaxy and Axis and it's way better. Presumably I don't know because I don't have one. You should ask somebody. I'm going to ask someone. So actually this is probably a good segue to our first guest. A man who probably needs even less of an introduction than Neelai and Paul. I mean really doesn't need, does not need an introduction. I'm introducing him anyhow but I don't think it's necessary. Please welcome the head of user experience at Android, Matias Duarte. Yes, you made it. Thank you. Thank you. Watch your step here. It's very hazardous. Yeah. Thank you. The man who made Android beautiful or is trying to make it beautiful but failing every time. What's up with that? No, I'm kidding. That's a lie. Matias, thank you so much for... Just the first step. No, no, you're making some big steps. First off, thank you for coming. I'm very excited to get to talk to you again. We've had a few conversations. We talked at CES last year. We did an interview a few months ago and I managed to convince you to come here where I'm going to kidnap you and take you to my dungeon. But I'm excited because you are bringing design to Android in a big way. And you started... So before this you obviously did a bunch of stuff and I think a lot of people know but maybe you can talk about it. You were at Palm. That's right. You were at Danger. Yep. Where else? You were at... Helio. Helio. Does anybody remember Helio? Yeah, all right. Does anybody remember? Well, I don't know. It's been a long time. Technology moves very quickly. Very quickly. So you're a designer first and foremost, obviously. I mean everything that you do is you bring this huge amount of... I cook too. Well, no, I've heard that you're an excellent cook. You'll be doing cooking in my dungeon. But where I'll be having you design New Verge stuff. But when did you realize you wanted to be a designer? How old were you when you started thinking about stuff from a visual standpoint or trying to make things look better? Well, I think the... I was always... I always loved to draw as a kid and the first things I drew were actually secret bases. They didn't have dungeons, just helipads, submarine pens. You gotta have to have a dungeon in a secret base. I really think you're missing out. This dungeon talk is really creepy, right? Yes, it is. So you would design bases. You weren't actually building them? No. I mean you were just thinking about the kind of base... As a child. Did you ever build a secret base? That's classified. Oh, really? Sorry, I need clearance. But you have a very strong sense of design clearly and you came to Android right when Gingerbread was about to come out, right? Yeah, a few months before that. And you didn't have that much to do with Gingerbread? We got to put a little bit of polish at the end. That little spark when you get to the end of a menu. No, it's one of the things that we worked on. But you told me when we talked, you said Honeycomb was a crash landing. Emergency landing. Do you recall saying that? Oh, an emergency landing. So the pen didn't crash, you landed. We were able to walk away. I'm still here, I have both legs. But you weren't totally satisfied with what you did with Honeycomb? Well, I'm never satisfied with anything. But Honeycomb was a time boxed effort. Right, and now Ice Cream Sandwich is coming and you're taking a really strong attitude towards design with this. I mean, you're not only revamping the phone OS and you're unifying tablets and phones, but you're also doing some more daring stuff like you guys have designed your own font for this called Roboto. That's right. And a lot of people are very angry about that. Do you guys know about the Roboto controversy? It's actually like a font-roversy, really. I've been waiting all night to say that. No, but people have complained that it looks too much like Helvetica, that it's an ugly font, that it's got weird edges. And you've actually written some posts about this on Google Plus talking about it. That's right. You're very upset that people diss your font. Can you talk about that at all? Can you tell me how it makes you feel? When they call your children ugly, nobody likes that. Sadistic people might like it. People who have Dungeons, for instance. I've got to stop. I don't know. I'm so sorry. I'm going to sit over at the end of the couch, actually. You're probably going to go all the way down. But John Gruber from Daring Fireball, he wrote some... He was pretty angry about it. Some typography nerds have written scathing critiques. There's kind of two different types of critiques of Roboto, one of which I totally get, which is what we set out to do, which is kind of provoke some discussion in the typographic community about some of the choices we made. We knew that traditional choices for grotesque weren't going to work. They weren't going to have quite the legibility we wanted, but we wanted something that had a little bit of that geometric purity. We did some stuff that was a little bit design forward. That is part of the discussion. If you can't tell the difference between Roboto and Helvetica, I don't think you're part of that discussion. Really? Well, what about the attacks that it's just like a bad font, that it just isn't designed well? Do you feel like that's a valid argument to make about it? I don't. I don't. Actually, that is the conversation we want to engage in. When sans serifs were originally invented, the first designs, they were called grotesque as an insult because people thought, oh my God, this is like a horrible mishmash of these styles that just don't match. They're like, how can I read this without the things hanging off of it? That's right. It's not pointy enough. I don't get it. What is this? No, no. It's literally, it was an insult that says, these letters are so crude, they had to have been drawn by a caveman living in a cave, right, and that's grotesque. A lot of people love that Roboto. Yes. But you disagree. A cave robot. Fundamentally. I actually think it's a good looking font. I think it's great. You did this at Palm. I don't know if you guys know, he basically designed all of WebOS. Well, not all of it, but you're the- By myself. You're the father. You're the godfather of WebOS. Does it pain you to see the story of WebOS? I don't want to get sidetracked, but does that hurt you? Yeah, it does. Anything that you work on that doesn't succeed the way you want it to, it's sad when it doesn't succeed. People are ripping off cards everywhere, so you're kind of winning a little bit. Good ideas tend to survive. But I think it's cool that you guys are doing something where you're like, hey, we're going to just create a font out of nothing because we think it'd be better for the- Well, it's important. I mean, no, it is really important to have good font choices, good typography underpinning what you're trying to do. And so it's important for WebOS. We did a whole suite of custom fonts at Danger because these mobile devices, these interactive displays, they're a different type of font challenge. So like I talk about ad nauseum for Roboto, if you really, really care and you're really a big font geek, read the posts. I'll go on for pages and pages. But there were really unique problems. We couldn't just take something off the shelf. Right. You didn't just want Helvetica. We could have taken Helvetica. We could have taken Helvetica, but we didn't want that. It's free, right? No, it's not free. It's not free. Are you guys trying to cheap out on the font? No. Is that what's going on? Because Google can afford to buy a font, right? Not only do we afford to buy fonts, but we go above and beyond because we open source the fonts. So normally when you buy a font, like we did at Palm, we license it. Right. What Google does with all the typography that goes on Android is that it becomes open source so anybody can use it for any purpose. So we can redesign the verge with all Roboto? Yeah. Would that please you? It works so well on my new Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it's a perfect match for your site. Which I'm definitely going to get. No, it's great. We have some sans serif fonts on there. A few. Helvetica, actually. We can afford it. So it's not a big deal. But we should actually talk... But we make no profit, though. That's the other side of Android. So we give it away for free. We have no money to spend on anything. Right. Exactly. Because you guys are just giving everything away and not making any money. It's a well-known fact about Google. Poor. Totally broke. But when we talked... Can I have a walk here? You did. You walked all the way down from your hotel. But you told me when we were talking a few months ago that you said there were two different types of design really that you saw everywhere in mobile design. And correct me if I get this wrong. You said one looked like bathroom signage at an airport. Which I think... You're talking about Windows Phone. Is that what you're... Right? Because it's very stark and iconic. You don't want to say it? Okay. And then the other style was... Go on. You were talking... Then you said the other type of stuff that you're seeing is kind of like this photorealism, the stitched leather, which you're talking about Apple. Right. It's not photorealistic. Oh, no. Not photorealistic. Yeah. It's like this trompe l'oeil. But not fully trompe l'oeil. Like an illustration style. Right. You actually said it was cartoonish. A little bit. Which is what... And that bothers you. Yeah. It does. You hate cartoons. No. I love cartoons. But I think if you saw that attitude put on a website or a magazine, you'd laugh at it. It would look childish. Right? So explain to me the philosophy behind ice cream sandwich. And I want to talk about the Galaxy Nexus a little bit. But what is... So how are you different with ice cream sandwich? So I think the instincts towards a kind of a more modern, more pure design that you see out there is terrific. But what we wanted to do with ice cream sandwich is have a space where you could do that, but also you could have a whole number of different spaces. Because when you go out on the web, you go to The Verge, you go to New York Times, you go all over the place, and there are just examples of beautiful designs, beautiful websites. Thank you. And they don't all look the same. I said there are. None of them look as good as others. Not when you go to The Verge. It's a beautiful website. But there are out there. Right. In contrast. And the guys have a similar... they have kind of a basic language of how they function. That's right. They don't all look the same. That's right. Right. And that's what you are doing with ice cream sandwich? Well, we're trying to be a little bit more cohesive because it is an operating system, right? So we want to have a little bit more of an identity. But we don't want to have a straight jacket identity. But we do want to have an identity that is modern, that is graphic, that's typographic. And that's why I use the words magazine UI to talk about the way that when you read a physical print magazine, all the articles look like they belong in the same magazine. But no two are laid out exactly alike. You're speaking my language. You really are. English. Well, no. Well, yes. You are speaking my language, which is English. But I mean, that's something that we thought about for The Verge was we were trying to figure out how can we make this stuff look... it's still in the language of the web, but we wanted to make it look more magazine-y. We have very similar... we should be working together. Actually, The Verge is beautiful. And that's one of the things that works for me. Thank you. Thank you for that compliment. And you delivered. You got it. You got it. You fully delivered on it. It took a while. I just wanted to... So I really like Ice Cream Sandwich. You had to work for it. I really did. And you're all obviously worried about me being taken to my dungeon. But we're gonna edit that. All the dungeon stuff's gonna be edited out. Or replaced with hilarious laughter from a separate audience. Because that won't be creepy at all. No, that'd be great. But what's going on with the Galaxy Nexus? Because you guys have been announcing it and announcing it. And it's supposed to be coming out... Well, you announced it one time. But everybody's waiting for it. We know it's coming out. It's coming to Verizon here. It's gonna be an LTE device. HSPA. All over the rest of the world. When can I buy... When can I... Will you give me a Galaxy Nexus? When... All right. When... When... I mean, I wanna buy it. When can I buy it? If you promise not to take me to your dungeon, I can probably hook you up. I can't make that promise. Even for Galaxy Nexus. This is so bizarre. But seriously, is it coming out anytime soon? Can I expect to purchase it? You'll be able to purchase it in November, but you know... We're not selling it. November? No, I know. I can't steal the partner's thunder. Right. Sorry. So no firm date for me. Sorry. But you have one with you. I do. Yeah, and you wanted to show some stuff off on this. Oh, yeah. So, by the way, if you need a Galaxy Nexus real bad, I think you know where you can get it. I see. This is how it is. It's either go with you for protection or risk the crash. Come with me, Matthias. I'll take care of you. So this is pretty thin, too. Yeah, no, this is very thin. It's extremely thin. You wanna put it up here, we can get a shot. You can get an idea of... Now, so this is 4.65 inches, but it really doesn't look that big to me. Do you have personal information on there? Yeah, that was my email. We'll just blur that out. This is actually my personal place. No big deal. So this is... Is this the final build that you're running? No. No, this is about a week old, I think. So this is the final build. And it does feel very thin. It's 4.65 inches, the display, but it doesn't feel that big. And you have some stuff that you wanted to show with the camera that you... Yeah, something we didn't get a chance to show before. You haven't demoed this. Are you gonna use my face for this? I'm gonna definitely use your face. You guys are gonna love this, I really think. So let's see. So this is... You're showing this does real time... Real time video effects. Video effects. So for example, if I'm talking to somebody... That is wonderful. This is...That's great, because my face needs to be more deformed. I really appreciate... What is this one? This way. Oh, yeah. Am I gonna step out of there? Yeah, it works best when you actually look at it. And what is it? What do you feel the practical use for this is? I'm just curious to know, is this something... Well, in your line of work, I should think it's obvious. You get a laugh. That is true. God, this is like what I'm gonna look like when I'm 65. Very shocking. But there isn't...You don't really have a practical... Can you think of a single practical reason to use that? It's fun. Just for giggles. Yeah, I mean, so we... This is one of the things about photography, right? Everybody's chasing, adding all the features of the point and click cameras, right? I want all the white balance, exposure, this, that crap, right? You consider that crap. Exposure, balance, white balance, total crap. Yeah, all that crap. Yeah, if it's not immediately obvious, it's something the machine should be taking care of for you. But it is crap, right? What I want is... Burn, I got it. You wanna use the camera to make memories, share moments with people, right? To make totally authentic, non-fabricated memories. To make people... But you guys have had some controversy with the camera on this. Well, with the face... You have this face unlock feature? Yes. And there's more controversy, not fondroversy, but kind of just as good. Really? You didn't laugh at that one again? Face unlock apparently can be unlocked with a photo. The idea is you have created a way to unlock the phone. You have your face, you hold it up, it unlocks the phone. But apparently you can just hold a picture of your face up. Somebody could kill me, take a picture of my face, and then hold it up to the phone and unlock it. What's the reason behind it? We tend to optimize for the more common use cases. That's right, it's common. The face off thing also, you know, like you get kidnapped, somebody takes your face off, puts it on. Yes. It will defeat face unlock as well. But no, seriously. What good is it? No, seriously, it's so that you can have that measure of security so that if you leave your phone behind, you drop it on the bus or something, some stranger isn't going to pick it up and go through all your crap. Right. But somebody who knows you. You can call and have your phone silver bulleted, deactivated. So yeah. What do you call it? Do you say silver bulleted? Yeah, silver bulleted. That's what you call deactivating the phone remotely? Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's the official name. The phone is like a werewolf. That's what we used to call it way back in the, well when it's not in your control. It's a werewolf. Yeah, yeah. Really. You got to take care of it. Or a vampire. Why not? It could be a vampire. I don't know. You got to stake it. It was an old, that was an old danger term. It didn't have anything to do with cores, did it? Cores? Silver bullet, the beer? No. Cores? No. Sorry. Sorry, that's not classy enough for you. I apologize. I apologize. But so I actually, I wanted to do one more thing with you before you get going, but you had a little bit of news that you wanted to share that has not been announced. Has it not been announced? I don't know if it's been announced, but I'm happy to announce it right now. Okay, so. Which is, well I can't give you one of these phones, I can say that today we are open sourcing ice cream sandwich. Right now. Right now. Okay. So. It's available. Can I download it right now? You can download it right now. I can download it right now. Okay, so. You can't get the phone. But I can put it on something else. That's wonderful, thanks a lot. So before you go, so we talked about the Kindle Fire, we were just talking about it, you and I discussed it before it came out, and you said you liked the Fire because it had a really different skin, and you liked the fact that it had been re-skinned. Let's just get a look at this again. Obviously, this doesn't look anything like the Android that you guys, oh my god. You're shutting down again. They put this button in the worst place. Okay, I don't like that part. But you don't like that part, but you like the fact that this doesn't look like Android. Yes. I mean, I like the fact that they are taking Android and they're trying to do something really different with it, right? I always got the impression that you weren't crazy about skinning. But I want to bring out a couple of different tablets and devices here and get your opinion on what you think of the skins for these phones. So here's one. This is an HTC Sense. Right. You want to go ahead and? Yeah. Yeah. What's your opinion on this one? I think it's really good. They've got that 3D bling going on. We talk about sexy moments when we're designing software. We always kind of make fun of where's the sex appeal. Is this a sexy moment for you right now? Not for me personally. You like that? Huh? But these guys are paying attention and they're trying to do something a little blingy. So you like this? What score would you give this? I'm not going to give it a... You don't score design. What are you talking about? You don't? No. I'm not going to. How about this one? Hotly contested. TouchWiz seems somewhat reminiscent of other phone OSs. What do you make of TouchWiz? Oh, look at that. Now what I like, TouchWiz was the tablet version where you can drag up and get your favorite apps. Do you feel that this is... Apple and Samsung are in heated battles right now. You know about this. Do you feel like it's... Is it derivative of... Objection. Overruled. I'm sorry. You can't talk about it? You actually will lose your job if you talk about it. So then you do think it's derivative. Interesting. You guys heard it here first. So this is a really crazy one. This is the Grid 10. This is made by Fusion Garage. I got it just signed to unlock here. Does that work? Have you ever used this before? I haven't. I haven't. I've never used one of these, but I haven't actually had a chance to use it. What do you think of this? I think it's really cool that they're doing something totally different. I mean, Amazon went one way, but it still has a metaphor that people recognize. These guys are really taking risks with this. Is it possible that you like the ones that are really crazy because they look less like the stuff that you do? No, I don't think it's that. I mean, you want to have a... I think if nobody's willing to take risks, then everything will be derivative. That's a good place to end it, I think. Matias, thank you so much for coming. Really appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you. We have this really cool demo with the Lytro camera. Have you guys seen this? It's a wild demo. Would you stick around and help out with this demo? Sure. Would you be willing to do that? Yeah. So we're going to be back in a second with that, but Nilay actually went and talked to the people who put together this camera, which is completely insane. So take a look at this clip and we'll be right back with an actual real demo of it. So this is a micro lens array. This used to be a room full of cameras and we've miniaturized it to this. We capture the direction of light or the angle or vector of light if you're a physics person. And when you do that, you get capabilities in a camera that you don't have with conventional cameras. And the very first one, which some folks have been talking about, is focusing after the fact. But we also have benefits like 3D, shift perspective, lots of things that can come as you capture all of that additional data. And the way it works is that light comes into the lens. It's an 8X F2 optical lens. So lots of light flows into the camera. It strikes the special light field sensor right here. Then right on the camera, we process that data, that light field picture file. So you can refocus directly on the camera. You can also refocus and interact with the picture on your desktop. And when you share the light field picture throughout the web, you share it in a player, like a YouTube player, so that your friends and family can interact with a light field picture without needing any special software. That's very cool stuff. But to actually demo it right here, right now, we've got Nili, Paul, and Matthias is going to be their lab assistants. So take it away, gentlemen. Thank you. Nice to see you. And I'm going to hang out here and have a cigarette. So this is the Lytro. And as you can see, it's completely no frills. This is all the stock for the lens right here. And I'm actually going to take a picture right now. You saw the video, and I can refocus after I take this. But I'm going to put the book close. Josh is in the background. And now it processes the photo, and then I can tap to refocus. All right, are you going to let Matthias do this? It's working so well. All right. Something was happening on the screen of that, right? Yeah. Nili's going to photobomb me right here. And we're going to have to see this in action. Is that what your photobomb looks like? Oh, yeah. Yeah, there we go. That's good. It's more of a zombie bomb. You're just like John Kuzak in the... This thing? You want me to do this thing? Yeah, what is that? Say anything. Does that say anything? Yes. I feel very passionate about that. So Nili, can you talk about the sensor a little bit? Yeah, I'm actually holding it. And I was told that if I lose this, the PR person would lose their job. So I'm going to go. No, so this thing is actually... This is the core bit of technology. What sits behind here is just a regular CMOS camera sensor. But this thing sees light rays. It's kind of like a super crazy advanced prism. And once they collect all the light rays in the sensor, they can do things like... When you saw I was wearing the 3D glasses, you can look around the picture. It's just one camera to do 3D. It's kind of like really insane. It's the first time... It's truly crazy looking. I mean, you guys will see it. But it just... You can manipulate the photo as if it's live. Yeah, it's like if you guys are shooting raw on your regular cameras, this is the next... You're collecting light instead of what the sensor thinks is... Like play with it. Go enhance. Go enhance thing. Only you're like, enhance. And you actually focus this on the back. And you can go into a reflection and see back what's happening. You can't do that. Does it see in the future? It doesn't see in the future, but it sees in the past. It can solve... It can find replicates, correct? Yes, absolutely. Okay, good. They actually don't have megapixel rating. It's just... It's like 15 megabytes per file. All that information is always going to be... They say it's mega rays, right? They're calling it mega rays. Wow. Which is... It's cool. It's 4G too. You got to learn the terminology in the future. So I... Light row, adding features right now. They love you. I loaded the photo onto this computer. It took a while because this is an extreme beta. This doesn't come out until next year. Like our show. But if you look at this... Can I do this? Yeah, so just tap and it's going to refocus. Now it's... Oh, that's cool. I prefer the other picture. Wow. There we go. It's going to solve... That's great. You did a very good job. There we go. God, that is insane. Yeah. So right now, it's just focusing on two planes, but the final version will have a whole bunch. That is awesome. That is... That is so insane. Can they make a giant... Can they make a giant one? A giant huge camera? Yeah, to take pictures of huge things. Yeah. You mean like this scaled up? Yeah, like that. Like the model. Ten times the size of what you're old. I'm going to be able to do that window stuff. That'd be great. Yeah, I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that. I'm going to be able to do that window stuff. That'd be great. Yeah, they can take pictures of the windows stuff. So anyways, this is $399 for the 8GB. The 16GB is going to be $499. It's going to come out next year. This is just the beta right now, but it's just completely new technology, which is really fun. And they keep on... They promised they're going to roll out additional features, so all the pictures that you've taken thus far, next year when they roll out the 3D, those pictures will just magically become 3D, which is bonkers. That is insane. You can also upload your photos to like Facebook, or you can view them on an iPad. That's my favorite thing. You can't do the stuff on Facebook. Yeah, you can still adjust them forever. And if you want to send it to your mom, you can render out a JPEG of one focus and... What are you saying? My mom can't use the focusing? She's not smart enough? I'm sorry. Yeah, you should be. I'm sorry. Nelay, did you have something to add? I was just saying, yeah, Facebook, it's a little technology called Flash, which everybody loves. That's not cool. Well, that's awesome. Thank you guys so much for demoing it. That is pretty amazing. So we actually, we wanted to help some people out here. We found some people in the audience who had hideous, horrible old phones, and we wanted to give them some new phones. So could the five people that we pulled out of the audience come down here and let's get them some less crappy devices. Come on down. Come on down this way. Just take, you don't take your time. It's fine. It's no rush. You can kind of give me a semicircle here, around here in a line. Okay, great. So you guys apparently have terrible phones. I'm going to talk to you about it. What is your name and what phone do you have? My name is Gerardo and I have an iPhone 3G. What's wrong with that? It's basically a brand new phone. I mean, there's no multitasking. Is it smashed? It's kind of cracked. It's not kind of cracked. Can you guys see this? It's actually missing, there's like, you can see the circuit board behind. I've never seen, this still works? It works perfectly fine. I've never seen a phone that broken. That's insane. Apple, what an amazing company, right? What's your name and what kind of horrible phone do you have? My name is Naomi and I have a Cricket Samsung. I don't know what kind of model it is. Oh, that is. And it can't do video. It really sucks with popping up applications. It won't let me go online even though I pay for going online. And I never ever get service. Sounds like it's time for a new phone. How about you sir? Name, phone? My name is Michael and I have a Frankenstein edition Palm Centro. Oh my God. You have a Palm Centro? I have a Palm Centro. Wait, why does it have a green on the front and black on the back? As I said, it's a Frankenstein edition. I needed parts so I took my friend's broken one and now even that's coming apart. I mean, you can pull the back off here. What happened? If you move the stylus, the screen dies. What do you mean you needed parts? What happened? The front broke. The power connector at one point broke so I had to replace that. So you just slapped on some new components? Pretty much. Frankenstein. That's disturbing. Really disturbing. Name and phone tragedy? Brian. And I have the Samsung. I'm not sure what this is. That's from 1998, right? It's like pre-2003 I want to say. Really? God, we've come so far. Look at that. This is so depressing. That is terrible. I'm so sorry about your loss. Hi, I'm Tim and I have an original Palm Pre. Where's Matthias? Matthias! Are you? Your baby is out here. And what's wrong? You don't want to keep that? My friend spilled domestic beer on it and now it's... Oh, was it Coors by any chance? I think it was Budweiser actually. But it's got like an obscene little thing on the screen now. Yeah. It's like a little water or something, beer behind the screen. And so when it heats up it kind of smells like domestic beer. That's terrible. That's a Sprint phone? Yeah. Okay. So we have new phones for these guys. We actually are giving them HTC Titans which is a new Windows phone. It's for AT&T. Yeah, here's... Yes! So, I'm going to give you a little bit of a sneak peek. So you guys are all getting Titans. You have to switch to AT&T of course. But this phone actually isn't out right now. You can't buy it. So it's also 4.7 inches. So I hope you like carrying around a gigantic... It's actually a gigantic Windows phone. It is a gigantic Windows phone. Paul, did you... Have you gone hands on with this one? I love it. It's great. All right. Give these guys a round of applause. We actually have a few more of those to give away after the show is over. So a few more people here will be leaving with those. Try to contain your excitement. Great. Awesome at the Q. So we've got one more thing we're going to do. You guys can go back to your seats and give them a round of applause as they go. We want to do one thing here before we give away the rest of the phones that we have. It's a little something you've never seen before called New Thing where we talk about our favorite stuff that we've been using or that we want to buy or that we've bought or just all kinds of crazy stuff. We're going to do it in a kind of a somber, emotional way. New Thing. And we have the sad robot voice to introduce it. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Stools for New Thing. Yeah. New Thing Stools. So we're timing this because apparently we run over a lot. You've heard the podcast. We've got to keep it under two hours. Yes. All right. Start the countdown for the two hour New Thing. New Thing. Oh, okay. My New Thing is a game called Superbrothers Sword and Sorcery. It is an iPad or iPhone game and it's a weird kind of RPG, arty sort of. You just really should. I never know what I was going to say. You're up. Mine is the Canon S100. I had an S90 before which I've abused to all in and back. This one adds faster processor or GPS. Makes me look attractive. Next. Paul, you look extremely attractive. Wow. You got it. That's amazing. I am obsessed with Starcraft II not playing it but watching other people play it like professional Starcraft II play. Providence, New Jersey. There's the MLG championships. I'm so excited. I'm either going to road trip or watch all of it live streaming. Did you win? What was that? I think I leveled up. Yeah, it was like the winning and you won a New Thing. That is crazy. I want to thank you guys for coming out. It's been really great to see you here. I'm so glad you took the time on a horrific Monday night to join us for this interesting experiment. We'll be doing these once a month and we hope you'll come back and join us. There's one thing I wanted to say before we go. So you know we go every year and cover CES. It's a big show for us. So we haven't announced this yet. You guys will be the first to hear it. This year we are the official technology news partner of CES for 2012. Thank you. It's going to get crazy. We are doing a super session there. We're going to have a bunch of industry people talking about technology. We're doing our nightly podcast which are normally like drunken rage fests from the show floor. So they'll just be contained. They'll be in a cage inside of a Ford car. We actually have our first sponsor which is Ford. They're all in on it. They're really excited about it. So we're feeling really excited about CES and I just want to share that with you guys and I think it's going to be kind of awesome. So that's our show. Thanks again and we'll see you next month.