 Hey everybody and welcome to the Vergecast. It's our last Vergecast of CES. I'm Neil Lapetal, I'm the energy for The Verge. I'm also extraordinarily sick, so there is a, I would say, greater than 50% chance that I actually just die on the show. And as Casey was saying to me earlier... It'll be a snuff film. Yeah, it's a snuff film. And I think that is what The Verge should be known for. What was The Verge? I was on the website and then they got really into the murder movie business. But I'm joined by three very exciting people today on The Vergecast. Two people who are new to The Verge and new to CES. And Casey, who every day is a rebirth. So Natasha Tiku is our new senior writer. Emily Yoshida is our new entertainment editor. Casey actually was just promoted to be our Silicon Valley editor. If you guys want to say hello, this would be an excellent time. Hello. What's up CES? Wow. Hi. Yeah. It's like a lot of tired people forcing it in the crowd today. Can I just say, this is my first time in The Verge lounge here at CES and I got so excited to see all these beautiful faces. And then I realized that everyone here is just charging their phones. Yeah. Because we've set up an incredible state. Like how many power outlets do we have? And what is the electricity budget for The Verge at CES? 2k15. I don't know. It's all coming off that Mustang over there. I'm just kidding. There's my brand new grace. I love the Mustang. It fills me with joy. No, but I will say this. This space is really cool, but next year I want to get even bigger. Yes. So yeah. That's it. Same here. So that is the end of the introduction portion of The Vergecast. I'm like really, like my brain is at like 30%. Yesterday I was really hungover and today I'm really sick. And tomorrow I will, I'm telling you, I will just be a corpse on the ground. I think that The Verge has been really good at organizing though the levels at which we get sick. Like it feels like we're in shifts. Yeah. Like I was definitely early shift sick and now I feel like a regular human being, which I feel really, really grateful for. But you know, but now Neil I down. So yeah. I will say Natasha, we were in a car on the way to a party the other day and I asked Natasha how her day was going and she misheard me and thought I asked you, she thought I asked how her life was going. And then her answer was I'm more susceptible to cults now. I mean it's true. CS. So hey, so the two of you are new. This is your first year. So I'm just going to ask you straight up, Natasha, how is your CS? What is, what is this like for you? It has been very disorienting. Even walking to find this lounge for the second time I got a little lost. Went to a different giant tech corporation entrance. It's been actually really fun too. Like I am getting really excited about a lot of the people who are talking to me and I've been able to do some really fun things. I just watched Richard Branson give away 10 tickets to his private island at a startup contest. Like you did. Not in person, but. And I think that's a trap by the way. Whenever a mysterious billionaire invites you to his private island, we've seen this movie. You will be hunted for sport. I mean, it's Branson though. He'll do it in a super handsome way. And that's what makes it so terrifying is how good looking he is. Well really it's kind of. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Can we can we fact check this for a second? Richard Branson is like a classic silver fox. Oh no. Wow. Sorry. Literally an attractive billionaire than Richard Branson. I don't even know the state of who's a billionaire and who's not. You can tell me that Ryan Seacrest is a billionaire and not that he would be my first choice. That's just the first person who popped into my mind. Your subconscious just revealed your crush on Ryan Seacrest live in front of an audience of hundreds. I was saying like this is this is Neil. I wanted stories. OK, so I went to the I Heart media panel. I think it was yesterday. I have no concept of time anymore. And I was in the second row. But in the first row was a lady. And this has made me completely not self-conscious about what I decide to take pictures of. She had her camera just fixed on Ryan Seacrest the entire time for an hour. She has an hour of uncut footage of Ryan Seacrest sitting. And I'm like, that's dedication. I don't know why she's here for CES. I guess just for that. Can you imagine rewatching that? I know. I know. What are you going to do with it? There he is again. That's all. Do you guys want to watch my Seacrest movie? It's an hour of him sitting quietly. Oh, maybe it's like you can project it like get one of those like new fancy projectors. Yeah, yeah. He's in her house. Yeah. In the corner in the living room. That's what's in her Oculus Rift. It's just Ryan Seacrest. In both eyes. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt. This could be very high concept, right? Wendy Warhol famously shot a 24 hour movie of the Empire State Building, right? Maybe this is an elaborate commentary on celebrity. That's just an hour of iPhone footage of Ryan Seacrest. Here's what I know about CES. That's generous of you. Nothing here is an elaborate or thoughtful commentary on anything. Like truly deep in my heart. I'm aware of this fact. It's elaborate. It is. I mean, it is elaborate. I guess it's funny that you were talking about how you are disoriented here. This is eight years of this for me. And I'm so sad that I know how it works so well. I'm like, oh, I got to go here. And then like, I just know. And it's like, why do I why am I so aware of this like, totally artificial space that will be completely gone tomorrow? What do you mean? What have you learned in eight years that this is artificial? Well, I mean, just the way I mean, that's a self evident fact. What about this is fake? I think it's crazy that it's like a series of cities that are all built up. And the cities are owned by like various gigantic corporations. I can't wait to see Ross Miller's video he's doing of his day living at CES, like taking advantage of like the bed that wakes you up and going to wash his clothes at the Samsung booth and doing his dishes or whatever. Going to the fridge. We're gonna put that up tomorrow, I think. Yeah, he was really, I mean, you can just live here. Yeah. People do. It's terrifying. So Casey, what have you seen? What's been going on with you? I did an investigation of brands at CES. You know, CES is a show that is mostly about physical things. I wanted to do a show or do a story about how those things are sold to us. So it turns out there was a event happening here called Brand Innovators. So I was already signed up because how could that be anything less than fun? And so I went there and not only was Shaquille O'Neal there to give his thought, the name of his talk was how do you like preserve your personal brand in the digital age or something very highfalutin. And then Shingy, who works for the AOL Corporation and whose title is Digital Profit and who is a somewhat comic figure in the media world these days because he makes these sort of absurdist pronouncements about what all of our lives are gonna look like. Right. I mean, AOL definitely employs a man named Shingy who made his own fake TED talk. But you can go watch it. Like he set it up so it kind of looks like a TED talk. But then you can also tell, like I used to work at AOL. I know the room that he shot it in. It's the studio at AOL. Really? And it's like he set it up, that room, to look like a fake TED talk. It's so sad because they had a TED talk at Burning Man. Like you can have a TED talk anywhere. He could have just gone to like a small city TED talk or TEDx Black Rock City. You buy a TED franchise. Yeah. All we have to do is just add the hashtag TED talk to the Verge cast and it becomes a retroactive TED talk. That is a true brand innovation there. And that's what we're all about. So tell me about Shingy. Buzzwords galore. I still have no idea what to do with my personal brand or the Verge brand. But I do feel like it's working for me. But it's working, yeah. On me. Your personal brand. Your personal. This is good news. What I honestly feel though is that brands are very scared because they used to be able to just buy television ads and then we would just sort of like some portion of us would mindlessly do whatever the ad said. And nowadays they have to develop a quote authentic voice, which really just means mimicking the voice of a teen boy. And then just like use that voice on Twitter all day long in the hope that it will drive us to go buy a gordita at Taco Bell. So they are just like in an absolute wilderness right now. And it's left them very susceptible to these like folk heroes like Shingy who can come along and if they talk really fast and look kind of edgy and different, all of a sudden, you know, you have a digital profit. I mean, you know, it's funny because I get what he's doing, right? Which is he's supposed to teach them how to like buy ads and AOL and like talk to the new generation of internet consumers. But it's like it's AOL. And like I don't know. I mean, Natasha is the one who like broke the Shingy story at Valleywag. Was there a headline? It was like this man is representing AOL on national television. I think that was someone else. That was someone else? Yeah. But yeah, I mean, they it makes complete sense to me that like in the New Yorker piece, like the scenes that are set because I think what he's supposed to do, he's not actually doing any buying or selling. He just is supposed to make them feel creative. They want to feel like makers and like, you know, they're innovating, thinkfluencing, what have you. And he inspires them. Like some spiky hair is all they need. I mean, truly what I want. They don't want to be corporate. And my career is to be known as a man who inspires you to thinkfluence. That's the end of the that's the end of the game. So Emily, you've been going to parties, right? And then you stopped going to parties. I went to parties for about two nights. I thought going into this that that would be my beat, that I would be the party expert at CES, that it was it would be the only accessible cultural thing for me to pursue. And it did not end up being the case. What's that? People don't dance at the parties. And I was expecting it goes like I don't like I was going to be at these things by myself. So it's like, what do you do if you're at a party by yourself? You can't really talk to people because it's very loud. So I was just going to post up somewhere and watch people dance and nobody. What's up CES? You've got like the best DJs. Can we get a show of hands? How many people danced at a CES party? Any of these people charging their phones? Thank you for one hand in 90. Now, what's it like when you're the one person dancing though? In a sea of tote bags. He said it was awkward. Every party here is extraordinary. I mean, did you hear about the three day yo party? No, we went to it. We went to it. We went when they had alcohol before it went dry. Yeah. Why did it go dry? I think something happened after we left. It was very, very chill when we were there. Well, I was trying to tell Emily that it was a good party and she was like, no. And then I think she went to more parties and she was like, oh, yeah, they don't get more down than that. It was in a very picturesque location, very Instagramable. Yeah. I mean, I think that the problem with parties at CES every year I try to go to one or two. I took hasty one yesterday. And he just looked at me with such anger and vitriol in his eyes. And he just goes, this is my nightmare. It really was. Like when I was 22, the idea of waiting in a line and then being escorted into a Las Vegas club by a bouncer had a lot of appeal. But then what you find when you get in there is that it's too loud to have a conversation, right? So you can either dance, which nobody is dancing, or you can just sort of like awkwardly shift your weight from one foot to another while drinking some overpriced beverage. You should have started thinkfluencing, though. I should have. Well, what I should have started doing was trendfluencing, which is the word of the show for me. I didn't know it was a real word. But then I went to my brand seminar and the back of my program asked the question, are you a trendfluencer? Which talk about an existential dilemma. I didn't know if I was a trendfluencer or not. Should I be a trendfluencer? I don't think I am. I'm trying not to be. Right. I mean, you should be, though. Well, we'll see how it works out in 2015. I mean, I just think parties here and all that stuff, we were talking about on the show yesterday, there's just an entire world of B2B, people who are like, I actually really want to write this piece. There's a whole subculture of suits who are bad at Twitter. And they just hashtag Cisco at each other all day long. It's like links to B2B networking. And that's the parties, right? I know most of the people who come here and want to go to a party, they don't care what the party is. They don't care where the theme is. They don't really even care what the club is. Can they get enough free liquor to make them feel like they had a big night out while they were here in Las Vegas? That's all most people want. I think that's why they're not dancing. Which is totally valid, I want to say. I guess. I mean, yeah, why not? If you're here, if you get to come to Vegas one time a year and there's a reason for you to go out, then why not? I mean, the only times I've gone to clubs here when I'm working or doing a story or something. I think we're underselling the amount of partying that happens. I just think we're like the Yo Suite was little because it was 730. We walked in and the smell of marijuana is just like wafting towards us. Robert Scoble is wearing a like hat, a trucker hat with a blinking Facebook like on it. And this is at 720 in the evening. And they had red wine and white wine. And then apparently something happened that made them go dry the next day. So people are partying in the suites, I think. Yeah. Yo Habish. Did you see there were like these two, this couple met on Yo. And I just like could not figure out how is that possible? Draw me a diagram. Wait, you looked really skeptical of this. I interviewed the CEO of Yo while I was there. And he did, I did not realize that they had made some changes. One of which is you can send your drop pin, send your location. So maybe like they said to a random person. So you just know you hit it off and you want to meet somebody based on your crackling conversation. And he was mostly talking to me about brands. He thinks the Virg brand should be on Yo. What could the Virg brand do on Yo? Well, as he told me, you should not be Yoing more than once a day. This isn't Twitter. So what they do is you can tweet a link. And that is what BuzzFeed and CNN and various things are doing. Huh. Yeah. And the TV has like a good evening, Robert Scovel. Oh, my God. I mean, every party I've been to here, and I like going, I mean, I enjoy parties. Casey knows this. Same. Yeah. I can't confirm. Every year I end up like just randomly getting into a limo and driving around and the next day I'm wrecked. And so last year is like a way bigger party scene for me. And then this year has been a little bit quieter. But it's funny. This is better. Huh? It's quieter. Quieter. Better is objective. I think CS is like it just is. It is this level of itself and no further. So what else have you guys seen? Casey, anything cool you've been looking at? Well, look, the big buzz of the show over the past day has been the Belfy stick. We were just getting comfortable with the selfie stick, which is, you know, the stick that you can put your smartphone in and then you hold it and you can sort of get some better selfie angles for yourself. But somebody made and is selling for $80 a Belfy stick, which is for taking butt selfies. Have there been any Belfy sightings at CS? I haven't. And it's my absolute greatest regret of the show. So you didn't purchase one? They're all sold out for right now. Oh, really? Yes. But you say that like you are the one who bought all of them. Did we confirm that it's OK? You confirm that it's real. I think that it's just like a really good idea for the selfie stick people, because then there's something more ridiculous. So you actually I feel totally fine. Like, as soon as I go home, I'm going to buy a selfie stick. Selfie stick is a professional tool. It's less money. I see people, all these people, I feel totally justified. It's normalized. The Belfy is now the new low. This is a good this is a good general question. What gets normalized for you at CES that you have to get used to once you go back to the real world? How will the entry be? How will the entry be? How will the entry be? We will probably all just burn up on this. This place is so like the idea that every person I talk to, I immediately look down and evaluate their career before continuing a conversation. That's just a week of behavior that I have to unlearn every single year. Oh, you work for Sony. You're interesting. I'll go ahead and continue talking to you. Mostly because I'm really bad at faces and names. So I find CS to be an environment in which I can succeed. So do you know what the colors stand for? Because I realized that I have not been paying enough attention. Oh, yeah, the colors are like, so they're classes of warriors and orcs. It's like press and analysts and buyers. Charisma level. Right. It's basically like who will provide you with money and then who will try to make you trick you into saying something you shouldn't have. Analysts and buyers, like they represent money. Guess which side we're on. We're the evil ones. So you know what, actually, Emily, you were telling me you tried the Oculus. Oh, yeah. So Ezra Klein was here and he apparently was like super into the Oculus. And then you are not, which I think is wild. Well, no, it's not that I'm not into the Oculus. I just think the experience I had was not ideal. But that is probably I'm the entertainment editor of The Virgin. Like there's very few stories here that I think like squarely fall into my area of interest and the way that Oculus can be used for motion picture picture picture industry is one of those things. And so so I went to go check out the demo of the the wild Oculus experience, which is a very interesting like it's like it seems like a joke. But then you think it's actually really, really interesting to do a motion, try to do emotional storytelling with the Oculus instead of this like whiz bang, like interstellar type stuff. And remind me like wild is like Reese Witherspoon. And she's just set loose in the wilderness. She she's so it's based on Cheryl Strade's book where she does the Pacific Crest Trail. It's like like a thousand miles or something like that. She she literally walks a thousand miles like the song. This Oculus experience is getting super weird. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So so, yeah, it's a scene. It's just it's a few minutes. But you're basically in a stationary place in the forest and you see Reese Witherspoon witherspoon walk up to you and she takes a rest on a rock and has this conversation with basically the ghost of her mother played by Laura Dern. And it's very interesting. It's like very interesting to see how that works, where it's not you're not flying a jet through space or whatever. But I think the environment that I was in was a little loud. I think so much of that actually like it for it being Oculus and being virtual reality, so much of it is still dependent on the the audio experience. And I was yeah, I mean, I could hear people yelling in my ear like throughout the whole thing, which kind of doesn't really do the trick. But I'm I'm really excited to see how that evolves like that. If I came next year, that would be something I would definitely want to check up on. And how much freedom do you have to look around? Like could you like do they film it in 360 degrees so you could like turn around and not even be looking at Reese Witherspoon? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a 360 degree. It's like which is always a choice. I prefer to watch wild. Yeah, it's so weird. I was talking about this with Ross, who I went to go see her with and we're like, it's so strange to actually have this because I didn't see the interstellar one, but I don't think there were any people involved. And so this is like you're in a real 360 degree space and Reese Witherspoon is sitting right there. Right. It's like she's a real person just hanging out. Could you move around the space? No, no, that's the thing. It's like you're you're stationary and you're sitting down. So and it doesn't move. I did a Oculus demo where I was in a like a military installation in Iraq and it's the same thing where you're in a fixed point and it's filmed in 360 degrees. And that is a mesmerizing experience because no matter where you're looking, there's some other story unfolding. Which for a filmmaker is going to pose some really interesting challenges. And I was also saying like it reminds me that for me, the most compelling example of what filmmaking will look like in the future. It was in her the like 3D projection that he had in his living room. And this is basically that just, you know, on a headpiece thing. And yeah, the idea of having something going on around you like everywhere and you can kind of decide what you want to focus on as a viewer. That's super interesting. It's like, you know, it's like advanced stage or something, theater or something like that. My dream like Oculus thing is like a murder mystery. Right. Like a lot like a where you get a bunch of people like an Agatha Christie. There's like a bunch of people in the house. There's a murder. You can like run around the house and like watch all the timelines and like see who's what. Oh yeah. Well, what is that show in New York where you sort of walk into the house and sleep no more. That's basically what I'm. Right. Like, let me experience that. That would be fantastic. Yeah, no. Right. I mean, yeah, I can't wait. I mean, the technicality stuff aside, I mean, I think that they're focusing on the right things. And, you know, effects stuff, I think that would kind of go down the same route that a lot of 3D stuff goes where it's just like, oh, great. It's great for filmmaking, a very specific kind of filmmaking. So well, in the wild thing, didn't they? They included the worst part of the movie, which is like the CGI Fox, like in the movie it looks fake. And then they put it in their fake world. It was so loud. It was also fake. Layers of fake. It was so loud in the room. I didn't even hear the cue, the audio cue that makes you turn around and look at the Fox. I'm a Fox, so I want my money back. The Fox. No, I mean, the thing with that, Addy wrote a piece about this today. Everything with Oculus is a demo. It's nonstop demo after demo after demo. And the only people who are like really interested in making anything for it are like basically like brands and entertainment properties that are like, here's a gimmick. And then you will engage with our movie a little bit because you're going to wear this headset that you otherwise wouldn't buy. And I think until you like click over and you start making things that people want to watch at home, which I think that's like that's the dystopian future is like me sitting at home on the couch with my wife and both of us wearing headsets and like watching something together and like totally isolated ways. I mean, I fear for that. I like that they don't want to. I mean, you know, maybe it's going to be like a failure at the end. But I like that they don't want to release a half ass product or kind of take the market. I went to this like all these glass heads before before they were they they shipped in every model of like augmented reality eyewear, like starting back through the ages and they had some people I mean, these were like the middle manager kind of people. It was just in this one room and just looking at all of it was so interesting. It was just all poorly timed and sent to the wrong people. Like in one case, they gave it to Toyota, like car mechanics so that when they're under the car, they can see it and then nobody used it. So I don't I don't mind if they want to like figure it out a little bit. It's there. It's been tried so many times. Right. But the question is, like, is Oculus a product that is just going to be perpetually six months away? Right. I mean, so you tried the gear VR, right? And yeah, yeah, very strong opinions about that one. Because I think that's the future. Right. Like, I'm never going to buy like a dedicated headset. I am completely involved. Like, I think the right idea is I'll buy a big phone and like put it in there and it will help me do this thing. Right. Because I like the idea of buying a $700 headset that like runs some software. All that seems bonkers to me. Unless the movies start being really, really good that they put on there. Like everybody's like, oh, my God, you have to see this thing. You can only see it because you have this headset. Yeah. But like, I don't know, like, if you want to watch a movie of three people in your house and you have to buy three of them, it kind of makes more sense that you would all just like that everyone would... I'm saving my money for the belt fee. They would buy it. Also, like, I think the smartphone has taught us one thing is that when you get three people in a room together, you know what they want to do? Look at their smartphones separately and not talk to each other. Right. So I can absolutely envision a world where we all have separate headsets and it's like, oh, you know, nice to see you, honey. And then slink away into your own private Reese Witherspoon CGI Fox world. I mean, I just I haven't seen any of the one demo I saw. And we had Addy as well. Like, she had the two hand controllers, like the Kickstarter hand controllers, and she was like lightsaber fighting. And I was like, OK, that I would do that. What terrified me was Addy's stunning competence at fighting with virtual lightsabers. Like she looked like she had been practicing for 20 years. She looked like Aria in Game of Thrones. She was like, you know, darting like someplace. I've always been afraid of Addy, but I'm terrified. So the answer to your question is, yes, she's a LARPER. And we have 100 percent made a video of her LARPing in the past. OK. So we're hardcore. Oh, my God. You can always spot a LARPER. So can't you, though? So speaking of LARPs. Let's talk about LARPs. No, let's not. Let's use that to awkwardly transition into you Soul Cycling with Tate Costello. Oh, yeah. So that was my big adventure for the week is Soul Cycle and Twitter were doing a brand promotion that they somehow didn't really advertise that much. But somebody asked Tate Costello, CEO of Twitter, if he was going and he replied with the exact days and times of the classes that he was going to. So I was willing to I mean, it took a little bit out of me to have to like you to send like two hashtags and has to be like, like at Soul Cycle. And like I saw the other people and they're like, please, please. So I just tried to stay to the embarrassment of it. And I won. I won these two spots. And I thought I was going to have to be competing with all these other reporters. But I guess nobody else wanted to wake up at 7am and then at 6am to Soul Cycle, which I've never done before, and was a little concerned would make me vomit. And I want to hear all about Tate Costello. For people who may not have heard of Soul Cycle, explain what it is and what is actually happening when you're on that bike because it sounds like no, it is a cult. religious overtones, such religious. I am a rabid atheist, but I fell for it. Like I am like praying at the Church of Soul Cycle. What's different about it than spinning? Nothing. Okay. Um, the things I think that are different is that they come up with their own lingo. They repeat these like affirmational phrases like you're stronger than you think. You have to turn the resistance like they're constantly the whole time trying to get you to turn your resistance knob harder. And to do this, they just tell you you're stronger than you think. Like no one else can tell you how strong you are. And you just like you believe it. And I did it. I thought like, Oh, it'd be so easy to cheat. I mean, even though like Tate Costello could see me. But I didn't want to cheat. Were you worried that he would be like he would be mad at you if you were cheating? I mean, I was trying to prove to him, I guess like this is, you know, me playing in their world. I've never tried this this angle of reporting. But I subsequently heard that like all these tech guys do it. So now I'm gonna nobody else take this reporting strategy. I'm now gonna go to all the right Soul Cycle classes because I could see who like the guy Ian who taught my class was he's like the people who are following him on Twitter are like top tech people. Oh, my God. Yeah. I love that you like this Soul Cycle master of the tech universe. Yes. Spinner to the stars. And they've really good music and it's like dim lights in it together. Was the CEO Twitter good at Soul Cycle? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I called him out. He was like, I see you Dixie. Like, good job. I see. He is kind of didn't include this in my story. But he's like, very ripped. Like not like Jeff Bezos, Sun Valley Idaho arms. I feel like that's always the picture that comes out of Sun Valley is like Jeff Bezos is massive guns. He's not like that. He's more alive, but very fit. And I think was very surprised that I was able to make it through the class, which is a valid prediction. I love the idea that like in both of your minds, it's like this sort of like passive aggressive war that's happening where like, there is acknowledging the other but in reality, you're sort of like trading glances whenever the other person looks away. Oh, what I tried to do is pretend I was taking pictures through all the rooms so I could take a picture of him and he was like looking right at me. And I was like, okay. Yeah, that's what the first time somebody tried to sneaky pick Dick Costolo. You don't get to be CEO Twitter without knowing who's sneaky picking you. Yeah, yeah, that was me. Let's can I just let's stop for one second and just examine the word sneaky pick. Okay. Okay. That's better than a creep shot. A sneaky pick is a creep shot. I guess it's like basically the same thing. What's the difference? Is it non sexual? Yes. Is it wait, is a creep shot inherently sexual? Yes. Sneaky pick is when you're worried you thought that Richard Branson was hands on. Yeah, I don't know what a creep shot is. I'm learning so much about just the weirdest stuff. Look, a sneaky pick is when you are pretending to do something else. When you take the picture like a creep shot picture is more just like, Oh, like this girl doesn't know I'm looking at her and like take a picture but like, you know, from time to time in these journalism situations. Oh, yeah, no, I have this thing. Oh, yes. I actually was that your movie? Oh, yeah. I can see that I'm recording. So you do when you're a celeb when you're at the IV, just chatting it up with select. So you take a fake phone call. Shutter button. I just said you don't need to do a fake phone call because they make an app that looks like the New York Times app except where the photo goes. Like on the front page of the New York Times app. It's just the camera window. And so you look like you're reading the New York Times and then you like line up the perfect shot and boom, you're done. And that's three years old. That's not a new app, which just goes to show you how old the sneaky pick concept is. No, I know a lot of old school entertainment reporters who use that app. Really? Yes. The paparazzi, if you will. Yeah. I actually was thinking about this because on the drive over here, I saw this guy trying to take a selfie and it's just the most embarrassing posture possible. And nobody, none of these solutions have no one solved this problem of like making it not look just just really. I don't know. I saw a Hello Kitty selfie stick today. So that's adorable. No, now I'm starting to like I'm like thoroughly converted. At least with the selfie stick. You're honest with yourself. I feel like this. I trust this person. I would use it as like, you know, a character test. Wait, what would the how would you fail the character test with the selfie stick? No, you win the character test because you're like you're honest about your intentions. You're just out there. Yeah. Here I am. I'm a rabid narcissist who needs like constant feedback and affirmation. And so I bought this stick. And so yeah, I don't get out of bed before I get 100 likes. I uh, tweet it. I'm super worried that I sent you guys out at CES to like talk to brand people and now you're both terrible people. You've been subsumed into the cult of shiggy and you don't know that like viruses growing within you. The man has a lot of good ideas. I think we should hear him out. I mean, oh, no, I was just gonna say I was telling them I saw the double selfie move like regular conventional selfie with one hand selfie stick with the other one. Guess where I saw it at the Tiesto Q&A. You did go to a fireside chat with Tiesto. What was that like? It was a fireside chat. It was, you know, he's got a headphones brand, which is really weird. Why? I'm being, I'm an opposite joke. I'm so broken. Why would you do that to me? Why would you look me in the eye and just like, all right, go ahead. Talk about Tiesto. No, I mean, he only talked for a few minutes. He signed autographs. You know what I mean? He's got a headphones brand, 50 Cent's got a headphones brand. Who else? Can we name everybody who has a headphones brand? Justin Timberlake. He's like an advisor. That's like a professional audio mastering software. Doesn't Nicki Minaj have her own headphones? No, she's just making money. Beats has most everyone. And 50 Cent has SMS audio. And 50 Cent's Twitter is the best because it's mostly him retweeting or replying to girls who send him naked pictures. And then he hashtags his headphones brand in all the tweets. He's like, yo, good butt SMS audio. And it's like, I don't, this is not a reasonable strategy for you to market me. But then he made Star Wars headphones. He did. Ross has a long story about 50 Cent's Star Wars. He got to talk to today. And Ross also talked to RZA. And we had Nick Cannon here yesterday. I mean, celebrities at CS is a real thing. Jason Derulo's Castle. Are we going to talk about Jason Derulo's Castle? Tell me about the castle. Oh, I don't know. You have to ask Kwame. But Kwame talked to Jason Derulo at the iHeart Radio party last night. And apparently Jason Derulo has a castle. I can see that. I mean, like, he's like, cause he's a secret Game of Thrones fan, right? Oh, is he? I learned so much about Jason Derulo. I learned that his last name is actually spelled like French, like D-E-S-R-E-A-U-L-E-U-X or whatever. It's crazy. I have all of that. I don't think that I have a lot of respect for him. I'm not going to say I have more respect for him because I already know. But like, he's like a massive, like Wiggle is like basically samples the Game of Thrones theme. Oh, wait. Are you talking about? Oh, yeah. Wiggle. Am I crazy? I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I'm trying to, every time I try to think of Wiggle now, I think of Talk Dirty. So it's sort of hard. No, I was talking about like, if I had gotten a chance to talk to him, I would have asked him just about like making the best meme songs of 2014. Cause that's all those songs are. They're just like a fit, like vine length snippets of something that's super catchy that you can't get out of your head, which is pretty genius. Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. Actually, I didn't mean to ask you. I mean, I think of me is always like the worst musical environment in history. And it's like, what's that Black Eyed Peas song? I got a feeling. I got a feeling. Oh, don't even say the name. I got a feeling. If you say it, then it gets, don't say it. Don't say the name. Tonight's going to be a good night, Natasha. It's going to be great. That's not the next lyric. Let's live it up. I hate it. Oh, wow. Did you know? Drank. That one's okay. That's the same song. No, like that song has just like haunted. Like many, many like massive corporations were like led to believe that people would definitely have fun if they heard that song. Well, I've been going around shazaming for a playlist, the songs that they think will move product. It's still better than two years ago because two years ago, every company had the independently hilarious idea that if they just played Gangnam Style at the right moment, everyone would go bananas. And it probably worked during the very first keynote. But like 17 keynotes later, you would just, you're like, Oh, but Gangnam Style, the whole crowd is like, Oh my God. Misery. So wait, I want to hear from Emily about the music of CS because I feel like you care deeply about music. I do care a lot. And I've actually been surprised. I mean, I'd be interested to know the lifespan of a song and how often it has play here. Like how long, because I feel like I definitely heard some Avicii levels, which seems like that's going to be on the down. It's Vegas. Yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean, I mean, what did I hear? I've heard a lot of them. I've heard levels on the baggage claim here before. It's just Las Vegas. What's Ariana Grande song? Oh, the Ariana Grande, the Zed Ariana Grande song. Break free. That's, that's a lot of places I heard. There was a Skrillex song off of his most recent album that was played at the I Heart Media panel, which was, you know, that's deep. That's a deep Skrillex cut. I felt proud of myself for recognizing. My favorite, it's like they start all the press conferences by like just jamming tunes at you. And it's like, you're definitely making decisions about how I should feel right now. And most of the decision you're making is like this group of like pretty tired business reporters or like tech reporters and like financial analysts. Like you're basically, are there financial analysts here? Tons and tons of like all over the place. Like that's basically like there are suits everywhere here. And it's like right before Sony talks to them about their new product line and like all the business stuff, you should also also want to get super drunk in the club. Oh yeah. I remember they, I was trying to remember what they played before Sony. It was the fireball, the pit bull song. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, it's like, I'm excited about keynotes. Have you guys, have you seen the people dancing on the AstroTurf in the parking lot? No. Like, okay. If you have to exit like at just the right time and everyone is standing in line for shuttles but this few people are just like, you know what, I'm ready to let loose. I'm on some orange AstroTurf in front of like a show car and I'm drinking orange beer and just like kind of moving around. It's time to go. Yeah. There's a very unfortunately named company called Vox International here with two X's and they own like any number of like mid level audio brands like RCA and AudioVox and every day they have like basically like a PG-13 like fake stripper just going after it while like a DJ like a medium Vegas DJ like scratches over fancy. I really want this to stop and I want your company's name to stop sounding like my company's name. I don't know. Maybe we just embrace it and get a DJ next year and go head to head with them. I mean that if we get in this room, a lot of people just looked really happy about that. I think we should have to put a DJ in this room next year. Well, and I have volunteered to get into PG-13 clothing and just dance. You know, here's what I've known about you for a long time, Casey. I don't know that I've ever expressed this to you. You look really good in shiny clothes. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Glitter is a way of life. Yeah, glitter is for it. So we should wrap this up. Is there more stuff? I want to hear from you, Mr. Newton. What happened to you at CES? How is this different? Well, I think here's the thing that I came to peace with about this CES. On a serious note, you guys, the unfortunate fact of life sometimes is that real progress is incremental and that we don't get these massive leap forwards every year, even though that's what we all come here hoping to see. But watching the stuff particularly around autonomous driving, I did get really excited because that's technology that is going to save tens of thousands of lives in America alone every year. And man, it's coming really quickly. And it's not just Google who's doing it. Ford is making some really interesting moves, Mercedes, BMW. So I love to see that. That's something to genuinely get excited about. And as far as I'm concerned, they cannot spend enough money or hire enough engineers. Make that a reality. Make me not have to drive a car anymore. Yeah. I mean, the second I can buy one of those, I'm going to buy one of those and I'll let it drive away while I get into a Mustang and just rev the engine on my engine. On the flip side, Internet of Things continues to be the most mundane of all technologies. Whenever the Internet of Things is described, it's always like, flip this light switch and they'll get your toaster going. Nobody can connect the dots in a way that makes me want to buy a single thing. People at this Samsung presentation, oh, when you wake up, we'll tell you what the weather is on your TV. I can see the weather on any imaginable screen. I'm pretty sure I can already get the weather on my microwave. Also the window. On the window, sure. I can even look with my own eyes if I wanted to get really old school for a minute. But you'll be wearing your headset. Yeah. What I don't understand is that these companies are often incredible at marketing things and the failures of marketing in the Internet of Things start with the name itself. It is the worst, like most boring, horrible name. They tried to upgrade it last year to the Internet of Everything. No, no, that was just a really like wild Snapdragon keynote. Like it didn't quite. Yeah, they went off. Wild keynote. Yeah, that was the one where like Big Bird was there and then like a Mercedes exploded. Like that is one of the craziest things I've ever seen in CES. And that's why they did Internet of Everything. Like when I say Big Bird was there, I mean Big Bird was there and then they cut to Kofi and Non and then a Mercedes drove itself on this. Like it was the craziest thing I've ever seen here. It had a certain internal logic. No, it didn't. But seriously, like I like the other autonomous self-driving car people, like you should feel really great about CES. If you had anything to do with any presentation about the Internet of Things, like return to whence you came from, hanging your heads in shame because you failed to sell what should actually be cool. Right. But this is why they need shingy because otherwise they'll be saying the Internet of Things. Like has no one vetted that? Have they ever like put it out in the wild? Like they have no idea the hurt that is going to come upon them when real people start hearing this. Like I was trying to think of how we could shame them out of it. Like maybe if like a really cool person, maybe if Nicki Minaj made fun of the Internet of Things, like then it would stop because it needs to stop. And I'm not powerful enough to do it. Distract from the Internet of Things. Right. In terms of like ultimate verge moments, like getting Nicki Minaj to make fun of the Internet of Things would make me so happy. Listen to me, Nicki. Help us. Help us. The corporate, the brands are out of control. Natasha, what's your wrap up? This was your first one. I'm like very curious with the two of you in particular. Like what was this like for you outside of the like hassles of being in Vegas and the show? Well, I kind of had a different take than Casey because I wasn't coming here looking for the latest thing. I often like I consider myself like the last, last of the early adopters. And so what I really liked, even though there's absolutely nothing that I want to use here in terms of the Internet of Things, what I liked is like what I liked is that it's like actually being implemented. Like all of it seems like it could I get excited when things happen. Like it's really frustrating when you write about software and you're downloading an app and no one else will play on it with you and they don't realize that you have to have like a full engaged audience. And even like I was washing my hands in the bathroom and I was like, oh, look, there was a time when we didn't like we would have to like squirt the soap thing and not just like put our hands, you know, up and down wildly. And so like I'm excited for like it getting actually into the infrastructure through brands. Can I really can we connect soap to the infrastructure again? I'm very, very. Yeah, it's the Internet of Soap. The soap of things. Okay, Emily, what about you? Yeah, I mean, I am not also really a gadget person, but culture wise, it's just genuinely been something where I've definitely seen an entire world here that I would never have seen before. And that's really fascinating to me. I think, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of with Natasha, like I think a lot of I think a lot of the stuff you see here, it's going to be the most interesting when you barely even notice it coming into your life when it just sort of seeps in. And I don't know, like that because I'm like I'm thinking I'm like, oh, the coolest thing I saw was like the 3D printed shoes because I'm a girl, I guess. But it was cool, you know, and it's like the idea of like, you know, finding new ways to make things or finding new ways to just park your car. Right. That's you know, that's all interesting. It's not stuff that I'm like going to want to be on the first line of when it comes out. But like, when it becomes a part of our lives, it's going to be the future. I think it's this for me, what this show is always about is it's just about screens. And like the screens wax and wane. And it's like, what are you going to put on these screens everywhere? And like, there are no I've been saying it's crazy to me that there are no tablets at the show. Like that was going to be like the main screen in our lives. And we're like, I would go to TV conferences and like I would hear TV executives talk about how they were going to build second screen experiences so that you would definitely be holding your iPad while you watched a TV show. And it's like, well, that definitely didn't pan out. Because nobody wants to do that. Babies love them. Babies love iPads. So maybe they could just like read, find a new product market fit, make it a baby toy. There's one like right over the only tablet here is like a kid's tablet right behind her booth. No, it's just funny because like, I look at this show and what happened was these phones ate everything. Like they literally ate everything and they got pretty big. So nobody buys tablets anymore. And now it's like there are TVs everywhere and those screens are going to be computers. And it's crazy to me that we are better at putting a computer in a car and making the car drive itself. And we still can't figure out like, how should we watch television? That's still like a pretty hard problem that this industry has been trying to solve like 30 years. And they like literally like cars are driving themselves now and the TVs are still like. Maybe because it's not a problem. I can watch television. I mean, yeah, it's, it's so hard to improve on on button and then up down and instant delivery of show. It's hard to improve upon that. That's like the whole lesson of Google TV is maybe we should not improve on TV. Reach the top and they should stop. We're good. Shut it all down. You've reached peak. No, but that's to me. That's, that's the question, right? Like you would never say that about a phone. You would never say you can't improve this basic experience of like using a phone. I love my phone. You're never getting a new phone, Natasha. Keeping this one forever. No, I think it's funny. Like that to me is like the story of the show. It's like, where are we going to put all of the energy and all the investment in like making things better? And it's funny to just watch people try and like hit roadblocks and constraints and then move very quickly to something else entirely. And the show changes so fast. The other thing that I think is fun is that we all just get to party here. Like our team gets to play together, which is really fun. And like, I don't know. Get sick together. And get super germs. What I need, there's a lot of people out there listening to this show who like one day dream working at the verge. And what you should really know about it is that we do just share germs left and right. It's super weird. And that's, there is a big jar of animal crackers in the trailer and the lid has been off since the first day of CES. And I still just keep reaching my hand and it's like grabbing two to three animal crackers every day. Casey, I just took my first hit. And that's how much I trust my coworkers. Right. Casey, Casey will be dead within the week. No, Casey, I just took my first handful from that jar today. Not bad, right? I'm going to go back to the trailer and touch all the animal crackers. So that's it. That's our show. It's great. I mean, I'm sorry that I am as like dead as I am, but that's the nature of CES. Like fundamentally, if you're not completely broken by the end of the show, you did it wrong. You did it completely wrong. You know, I actually haven't even walked in the other two halls. Like I haven't gone look at, I'm going to go look at the cars and I don't know. I'll go, this is South Elton. I tried to make an Oculus Rift appointment. It's fucking full all. Really? Yeah. All day. All the gosh darn day. I mean, of all of the reasons to drop an F bomb. The girl likes her VR. Oculus. Yeah, who doesn't? Okay. That's it. That was the first cast. That was CES for us. I hope all of us remain alive over the next few days. Thank you for listening. Thank you for the people who are downloading the show. Thank you for listening. And that's it. Goodbye. Bye.