 And we are live welcome to the WAN show you guys it's got tech news It's got guests. It's got everything except some kind of a coherent strategy today because I'm gonna be totally honest with you guys Okay, one thing first first things first. Hi Justine. Hi, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me Yeah, it's absolutely my pleasure This is actually our first time meeting even though she's been here all day. We actually have hardly interacted I was like, are you sure he's here? Did I get tricked? Warehouse that I just showed up to is this how I die At the very back of a working complex Very end. Okay in my defense. Okay, it's not it's not the least sketchy area. No, it's not it's wait It's not the most sketchy area It's also not the least sketchy Starbucks on the way, so I felt right. Yeah, um, so she's here and then we've also got Steven from gamers Nexus and Riley slash keys from NCI tech tips because Luke and I along with our other special guests I don't know if I'm gonna bring you guys on the show because you guys are getting plenty of camera time But get on here and kind of say hi Are they being all camera shy? Oh, you guys are so bashful. You guys have literally had a piece of glass in your face all week Oh We leave now, oh wow, look at that. It's Rod Yeah, yeah, it's okay. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. It's Rod and Bob sup guys did Linus and Luke just film another Week long show with these guys. Why do we keep inviting you here? Um, so our celebrity judges were Justine Steven and Riley and our Co-competitors were Rod and Bob stay tuned because tech showdown It'll be I forget what I'm allowed to call them now Whatever the tech showdown videos that are gonna be coming soon are gonna be totally unlike previous tech showdowns It's gonna be pretty flippin sick. So Right now it's showing viewers zero, which usually I have the twitch chat up It's possible we are streaming to no one. It's also entirely possible that it's not reporting correctly So I'm gonna find out what's going on You know what happens? I pretty much walked off of the set on to here Not pretty much literally that is exactly what happened and and I didn't have a lot of time to kind of set everything up correctly So you'll have to bear with me here notification that it's live. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're live. There are people watching It's all good. Okay, so thanks guys So stay tuned for that and why don't we jump into our intro for the week? Well, usually we'd tease some topics. Oh, yeah, normally we tease some top. Whatever. We've got crazy guests We don't need topics. You could sit here and talk about anything Prepare some of the best shows have no news That's true Right now, you know Functionality is a big issue Sponsors for the show today And let's get started. So The original article here is from Tom's guide. I'm gonna go ahead and throw that up But the word on the street is When this click When this click, you know works at some point. It's a word that I'm pretty excited about the iphone 8 is the world's Fastest phone to go along with my world's slowest wi-fi right now Apparently not even close. Did you see six core processor? Do you see this coming? I know but I did see a bunch of reviews of people doing speed tests Even comparing the 8 to the note 8 which was incredible because the note 8 definitely did lag behind Yeah, yeah, like specifically if we look at 3d mark the iphone 8 62,000 8 plus 64,000 note 8 you just referenced 39,000 Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things I got a lot of flack from my note 8 review People didn't really like it. They said I didn't really give it enough credit But one of my key points was not that it was a bad phone at all I said it's a great phone It's probably the productivity king if you have any use for the stylus whatsoever Oh I have it right here actually There you go And being a huge iphone fan too I was quite surprised how much I really liked this phone Have you watched movies on it? I watch Netflix Okay so any 21 by 9 like ultra wide screen content It felt a little bit, it wasn't ultra wide but it was still, it felt a little bit strange Because it is a little bit, I don't know It's narrow It's rounded I'm not going to complain because I mean I watch stuff on planes all the time So that's where I consume most of my content so I'm like this is a step up from the back of an airplane But yeah, I mean and I think cameras too are something that is what people are mostly into Most normal person who is going to go get their phone they just want to take incredible photos to share out And you know even getting a chance to see it at the Apple event I mean in the gold I'm getting so excited This is like what I live for you guys But in comparison to the X that's what I'm going to be interested to see because The hype around the 8 is way less than previous years And there were tons of people that were talking about there were no lines like usual But I feel like that will be way different for the X Oh the X is going to be a completely different story Because and don't take this the wrong way It doesn't have to be a derogatory term But that's the one the zombies are lining up for Yeah I will be there Like if I was With my undead bells on And it's just it's one of those things where Anyway so back to the back to the Note 8 One of my criticisms one of my key criticisms was that every previous Note had something really different really killer about it And I feel like Apple killed that with the iPhone X But they didn't do that with the 8 No the 8 is the most boring phone of all time I mean it's essentially a 7S Can you believe they're still using the same shell as the 6 No which is kind of crazy I mean they tried to get away with it by saying it's the glass back Which it does look really good Like I like that look that's going back to like the iPhone 4 When they first introduced that which was beautiful I love the iPhone 4 I still have an iPhone 4 actually on my nightstand It's a great look You iPod it right basically Yeah I just use it when I need like if I'm going to somewhere where like I might get mugged or whatever But I want a phone I just take my iPhone 4 People are like give me your phone Well clearly you don't have much love for it if you're going to give it up in the street It's worth less than my life I'll say that much To add some more stats to this before we keep on going In Geekbench 4 the iPhone 8 was 54% faster than the Galaxy Note 8 54%? 54% and just in standard media encoding I don't remember exactly what was it was a 2 minute 4K video encoded The iPhone 8 finished in 42 seconds The Note 8 took more than 3 minutes And the Galaxy S8 Plus took more than 4 minutes So what that tells us is two things Number one is that the iPhone 8 is hella fast And number two is that they are actually walking the walk When it comes to GPU computing and CPU computing and marrying them together Because AMD has been talking about that since the acquisition of ATI back in What was it? Steven would know this was it 2008? ATI acquisition? Yeah so whatever about 10 years ago Since then AMD has been talking about how the GPU is going to be this fund met fusion they called it You were not going to be able to tell the difference between a CPU doing something and a GPU doing something You were just going to click go on a webpage or you were going to click encode on a video Or warp stabilize in a video editing application And it was just going to use whichever one it used or some mixture of the two And we were going to treat the GPU like more CPU cores and programmers were going to get into it And it never happened But this is one of those infuriating things for the non-Apple folks out there Where Apple takes an idea that everybody else has been talking about for all this freaking time And then actually does it That's classic Apple fashion Being a huge Apple fan I think I get so much crap from the rest of you guys Which for fair reasons Which I'm not saying But what Apple is good at is taking all the things that everyone has been doing really really well And then they make it a widespread thing for everyone to enjoy and easy to use Like during the Apple event there was a few things I know wireless charging was one of them for me Where I was like thank god they're doing it Because now everyone will do it Finally And I was so afraid that just completely unnecessarily They were going to make it some other technology They were going to make it proprietary Me too I was like no please I was sure of it But you know what I think we actually do have like lackluster but present adoption of the technology Broadly enough I think we have that to thank for Apple kind of going okay This has enough momentum now that we don't need to absolutely break all the things for no apparent reason Yeah and I thought they might have switched to USB-C for the X but they didn't I was hoping that they would I was kind of hoping that they would as well And I was really hoping like a lot of devices have a type C port But if you go and transfer photos off of them they're actually running at USB 2 speeds And I know that Apple actually did have a USB 3 lightning connector on the iPad Pro as of I believe the first gen So I'll be interested to see if the lightning connector on the X is at least USB 3 That would be sick Now quick question I just noticed you called it the X It's sorry it's 10 I know And I do that because I use Final Cut X which is also Final Cut 10 Right And I've been calling it that since the beginning So I'm so sorry But then Apple's thing is like OS X is not OS X it's OS 10 So they have a long enough history of X is 10 that we're just supposed to ignore that all the other phones are called 7 and not VII Well where did the iPhone 9 go? Yeah that I have a theory I think the iPhone 9 is coming next September That's actually a brilliant idea that I didn't even think about So the iPhone 9 is coming and it's going to still be the like step down It's going to be like the new SE And then the X2 or the 11 or whatever they end up going with in terms of this series naming Or the X Mark 2 you know what I hear again tinfoil hat I think they're just going to call it the iPhone 10 again next year I think they're just going to call it the same thing Because they've done it with every other bloody product line If they actually add like Mark 2 that's kind of cool But they don't Yeah I know That's the issue You said Mark 2 and I was like that's pretty sweet Late 2018 No the naming convention We're a little bit off I mean technically the 8 should be a 7S But I mean if I'm not mistaken I believe it's the same A11 chip that is also in the 8 and the X is that correct? I believe so yep So I don't know I mean they're still sharing a lot of that same technology And I think it's going to be like do you want facial recognition And do you want to give up that touch ID button? I don't want to give up touch ID I love touch ID And I don't think my parents would either So I feel like there's a different kind of generation gap And I don't know It's going to be interesting to see when the X comes out What people kind of gravitate towards I think that's part of the reason we didn't get a new shell for the 8 Is that now it's the value phone Yeah In much the same way that like you know if you buy an SE It's that iPhone 5 shell Yeah So the value phone is like Like it's one of those things where Apple It's status It's a status symbol Where if you get the jet black one Everyone knows you're a mega baller and bought the top of the line And then you put a case on it I know This is terrible But in much the same way You don't even know There's no way you can even tell Unless you look I think Apple wants people who buy an 8 to feel like last gen chumps A little bit For at a glance For it to not look any different For sure Yeah I mean Because they even rotated the camera right? No that's on the X The X has the rotated camera Yeah that's what I'm saying Yes It's like extremely recognizably different Yes it's really different Because I don't think that was for a reason Could have been Yeah I'm not actually sure That'd be interesting to see I'd like to see like an iFixit tear down or something So it's killer fast which really surprised me Because Apple stubbornly stuck to two core designs for the longest time When the entire rest of the industry was going like No put all the cores into the phones Because even though historically it hasn't made a huge difference to performance In the applications that most people are using But if I had to guess I would say This utilization of both CPU and GPU And this addition of multiple cores is really Apple's way of saying Okay look we think that people are going to need all these cores For the kinds of workloads that are coming to phones in the near future And if it's Apple they're pretty good at predicting that Now I had people approach me out of the blue and say Can you believe so much of the keynote was about this stupid facial emoji thing And they spent a lot of time on the watch Okay that was dumb Because who cares about the watch no offense Okay but to be fair Okay listen You don't even need to have your phone You can have LTE on your wrist Granted the battery life is not very good I think you might have talk time of like an hour But the fact that you don't need your phone You can literally do Okay I don't want to Don't you shake your head I'll stand up You're going to be out of frame I don't care I mean I don't think it's for everybody But I think that that is somewhat revolutionary And the fact that you really don't need this I don't need anything I can go for a walk You can go for a walk but don't go far Don't go far Yeah sorry Brandon it's because Justine's a little bit further back here If you scooch up then we're good Anna was getting rowdy and like don't you start dissing the watch Look the watch has the potential Okay I have a Mark Zero or whatever I have the original one And my issue with it is that it's a development kit It is not a finished product It is a showcase of what they want the Apple Watch to do With a piss poor battery and no ability to have the actual time showing all the time Well at least I know what time it is It sometimes takes a little while And I do think that of course this is going to be the first gen of the LTE Come on So I mean the joke in my review is that it works great if you're sitting there And if you don't mind whoever you're with to know that you're like Yo what time it is But like okay imagine this So in my review I bring up like what if you're in the middle of an awkward sexual encounter You're on your back You know you want to know what time it is It literally doesn't work You can't find out Who you're talking to You can't find out when it's going to be over I mean like I love my Apple Watch so that's totally fine with me I'm just like comfortable It's part of the experience Understandably But does it have the red dot on it Because if not it's not LTE and I need to leave Oh damn So And is it ceramic? I need to know I think it makes a little bit more sense maybe in the States Because you guys can get companion sims fairly easily I think it's coming up here It's not yet really And I think in Europe it's less common too So if I came here I actually wouldn't be able to use it So Let's talk about the bump Okay so last Apple topic for now But let's talk about the bump on the watch then They made a big song and dance about how they used the same frame With all the new tech packed into it Two pieces of paper thicker The crystal Okay where's the end point of that Are they just going to keep doing this and just keep making the bump bigger But honestly I looked at it and then I put it on And I could not tell the difference Two pieces of paper It seems like it would be very hard to notice You would not be able to notice Because you already can feel this when it's on your wrist But the two pieces of paper you're fine Yeah But if you want to find some more reasons to hate it Oh that's No we don't have time for that That's pretty easy for me to do Hold on a second Let me just see if there's anything else interesting in here Yeah Oh No I don't like that one Okay this is off macrumors.com I have some bad news Did you know this yet I mean we've kind of all been assuming it since they announced it Dun dun dun iPhone X production faces further delays Will start in mid October Okay I got two questions for you Do you think apparently final production of the iPhone X has yet to even start At next I mean pre-orders are starting the third or 27th Wait pre-orders are the third and it's supposed to ship the 27th So if you had to guess what do you think it is What do I think it is What's the supply chain issue yeah Hmm Do you think okay do you think it's that they can't get enough Or do you think it's that they need too much I guess it's sort of two different ways of looking at it So they could I mean realistically they obviously made one They had it on the stage Like they may have been waiting though to see how the 8 did You think so Potentially I mean because they I think it's the screen You think it's the screen Aren't they getting the screen from Samsung Yeah So they could also be limiting the supply I need to I don't know there's not a ton of room Yeah I know Well don't scoot over more because you're going to go into the room I'll stay on the edge Look we aren't set up for guests very well Sorry We're like This mic is in like a terrible position There's a way better way to do this setup And I have not been approved yet to fix it You haven't No I asked you to and you were like that's way too expensive It's way too expensive How about what It's like four or five hundred bucks Yeah I know we're on Should we start a GoFundMe Yeah That's the answer to any stupid thing you need You could also just take this mic and like probably get Jake to 3D print something Yeah that would probably work That would probably work Yeah well there was also some people that were talking about They weren't 100% sure if the facial recognition was ready So it could also be a software thing That might have been a response yeah to what happened on stage But what happened on stage was that phone had been restarted And anytime you have to restart it you have to add the pin So that was not a facial recognition issue Wow someone's pissed about that Yeah so I mean it could be a combination of software not ready And also supply demand for the screens which is very realistic Yeah this article also covered that the iPhone 8 is not getting as much interest from customers As previous smartphones launched this fall And suggests that there could be many Apple fans holding out for the iPhone X Yeah Really Wow what a thought Or you just get the 8 and then get the 10 and then you know And just keep them both They'd commit you they're like you have a problem you don't And then you could just rub them on your body every day Well I was surprised To try to absorb the Apple-ness Because my sister today she's like should I go buy a phone I was like oh you're never gonna get one She's like well walked into Best Buy I got one And I was like well that was easy So I'm not sure if the supply I mean people are still getting them same day The lines weren't very long But the pre-orders was very smooth And normally all of the Apple pre-orders is a disaster So maybe things just worked well for the pre-orders It is a real departure from standard Apple operating procedure For them to roll out a slide that basically says It's everything you love about the iPhone 7 but better For the iPhone 8 Nothing they didn't say magical They didn't say revolutionary They didn't say Because it's not though so But usually they find a way to make it seem like that That's true They use plastic so it's unapologetic But they were saving that for the X 10 10 I guess so but it's just like they still need to sell iPhone 8s Yeah I bet they probably won't have that much of an issue Yeah probably not Probably not And they'll be able to slow sell them over time So they'll move them eventually Yeah Alright so our next topic Thank you Yes thank you I'll talk to you soon once we're done the show Our next topic is definitely right in Steven's wheelhouse So get on in here Alright This is fun How's it going? Pretty good Do you want to introduce yourself? Sure I'm Steve from Gamers Nexus I think that pretty much wraps it up We do technical, hardware reviews and analysis Alright speaking of technical, hardware reviews and analysis I'm going to add to that for a quick second We've referenced Steve and Gamers Nexus quite a few times on WAN Show If you've heard us talk about things like the knock to a color controversy And a few other things You guys followed up with that Yeah that one was interesting Yeah so if you guys want to see stuff like that One thing that I really like on your guys' channel is How you'll dive into like how something was made Yeah And kind of sometimes rip a company a new one a little bit Yeah a little bit Like it's a fine line to walk right? Yeah but I like the attention to detail anyways Well liked by consumers You get a mixed reaction on the other side of things If you mention Gamers Nexus So rumored Coffee Lake pricing Okay So okay now I don't know how much you know or don't know And you don't know how much I know or don't know about Coffee Lake So all we can go based on is what we are reading off of this page in front of us Which is copied off of pchubonline.pl or awesome-table.com Okay so this is what we're going on This is all the information that we have But there is some good information in here So it tells us how many cores it's rumored to have What the TDP it's rumored to be will be But it tells us the rumored TDP It tells us rumored cache, tells us socket Rumored and it tells us clock speed rumors as well So apparently the Core i7-8700K might end up landing about $400 As a rumored to be 6 core 12 thread processor At 3.7 to 4.7 GHz and whatever 95 watt TDP Is that too high? Does that kill it? Is that USD? That's a conversion to USD now So here's the thing We were talking with our Patreon backers a little bit about this The problem I have with this See that guy just dropped the Patreon plug in there? That's not what that is I've been watching you a while man I know You got that in there right at the beginning too This guy's seen a YouTube retention graph So yeah talking to them The thing is it is evolution for Intel to go to 6 and 12 That's definitely a movement But if you're moving in that direction and then sticking a similar price on it To what you had on previous high end i7s Like the low end of the HEDT CPUs It's not really that much of an evolution If that's the price Does this smell like, if that pricing is correct Which I don't know if it is Does this smell a little bit like 6950X? Yeah well so Here's two more cores Oh by the way it costs $700 more than the 8 core we had last gen Oh by the way there's an 8 core And enjoy One thing I can say about price Because I've said this before We had an undisclosed manufacturer talk to us not long ago About pricing targets And I was told 10 to 20 more than the existing i7 See there it's disruptive There it's potentially a Ryzen clobberer I mean you got this word right on your shirt here gamers Would gamers have a reason to buy a Ryzen processor If the 8700K is 10-20 bucks more than a 7700K There's a whole lot of caveats in that question How does it overclock? How is the platform stable? It's a reasonably well thought out Intel launch Let's assume turbo boost up to 4.7 works as expected Let's assume that everything goes well Should you even buy a Ryzen? If you only play games And you're looking at spending about the same amount of money Then probably not If it's $100 more than an R7 1700 And you do things like Actual content creation that is CPU accelerated Not just GPU accelerated Then you should definitely be looking at Ryzen So I think it comes down to a lot of things There are a lot of people with the Ryzen launch Where people who are content creators are realizing There's so much performance I've left on the table And they can really accelerate it now And people who aren't content creators but want to see AMD succeed Are saying I can multitask But there's a difference between having Twitch and your music open And playing a game And actual what you do or what we do production So it depends At $408 I think that's a little too much Now the chart also has some expected pricing for other processors And it has the 8600K So that's the rumored 6 core 6 thread at 286 So we could be seeing this particular listing inflated on the i7 Because that's the most popular we know from our Amazon sales affiliate link stuff We know it's by far Intel's most popular channel processor anyway But if we're looking at Let's say the price gap is more like $100 Which is what it normally is So let's say that one is more like $380 something At 286 again the gamer question And the rumor is that the 8400 will also be a 6 core part I mean that according to previous asterisk 400 parts Should be like a $235-$245 part Yeah and again it's not really It's not a linear evolution if the price increases It moves the bar So currently i5s and we said this in our review Of the R5s There's not a lot of reason to buy an i5 right now The i7 still holds on really well But you look at R5s and there's actual gains there There's gains in frame times and specific games Where you don't really get that change with an i7 Because it's already got all the threads So yeah I mean I would need to see i5s stay the same price If they're increasing core count or come down with the current core count To be viable to me still I think part of the issue here And it's not going to make up like $150 But part of the issue here is that we're going for another currency And converting back to USD And it's not just dollar conversion that happens there There's different pricing in different regions There's import taxes There's all this kind of stuff There's the fact that this is an early listing So they could be trying to They could be trying to convince stupid customers To preorder based on this pricing That will actually drop on launch day Once availability is real and pricing is real And everyone gets their listings up Some include like VAT and stuff too Yeah so this could have like 90% included So we'll take it for what it is A rumor based on incomplete data at best And I would say to add some value to the rumor My look at it is If it is $400 to $410 for the i7 That's kind of too much It might be a good performer But that's more than I want to see If it's like $10 to $20 more than the current i7s That falls in line with Intel's current price creep Where every generation they've very slowly increased it Dollars at a time So that's kind of how it goes They really do play a long game don't they They do man It's like sometimes you look at what they're doing and you go But then other times you look at what they're doing and you go Yeah Speaking of rumors with not a ton of credibility This one's from WCCF Tech Oh Apparently this came out of Eurocom It is rumored And this is again this is very early rumors That the upcoming 10 nanometer ice lake Will bump the core count from 6 to 8 And then the thread count from 12 to 16 To match AMD's Ryzen 7 And that'll be second half of 2018 So the timing sounds right Because Intel does refresh every year Even if they don't really have anything to show us Eddles Canyon You or I could have guessed that though They're gonna have a new processor next year Yeah but I actually wouldn't have guessed they'd go 8 core I would have said they might not bother I was kind of expecting 8 core for coffee lake Really? Yeah Because I don't know like it takes a while to make a CPU So it's not like coffee lake is a response to Ryzen Specifically as a piece of silicon There might be marketing attached to it that is but There might be pricing attached that is Like we might have seen a 6 core coffee lake as like A 449 mainstream processor And we'll never know To blur the lines even further Right Yes I don't know I don't really know much about ice lake I don't know anything officially And I haven't followed rumors I think it's pretty damn early on Don't the rumors get overwhelming at a point? I try to stay away from them And we're so flung out like that's something I've been saying about Wansha We've been covering rumors of the same AMD parts for like Over half a year Like I think we're like 9 months in now man Okay tin foil hat Damn AMD rumors Are they actually leaks or are they Buzz generation created intentionally? By AMD or a company associated with them By AMD or a company associated with them And there's two facets to the answer If you think it's people at AMD Do you think it is sanctioned? Or do you think it is like Gorilla marketing Gorilla marketing from people at AMD Who like think they have hot shit And most people know about it They have their own gorilla marketing from Red Team Plus Is that it? Yeah Yeah that kind of fills that role already I don't know like I've only ever had one person approach me and say Here's some leaked information Like that's happened one time And it wasn't really anything to work with Like it was clearly a Please post this we need something So it wasn't like our IHS's are soldered Right but it wasn't from a big three Like major engineering company So I don't like There's so I don't think they would need to manufacture rumors It seems like the community kind of does that well enough So I don't know Alright fair enough So my theory is that it's gorilla Because I mean if you've spent any time in Taiwan Or around Taiwanese people working in Taiwanese companies You'll know that the way the industry is inbred Is actually unfathomable from the outside Like the way people flit around from company to company Sometimes even landing back at the same one Multiple times Everybody knows everybody And Taiwan is a small place Literally A small place And the thing about it is that even if you look at companies like You can kind of go well AMD is not headquartered in Taiwan Neither is Intel Sure but you got to understand If you want to build a motherboard for a CPU Working with people in Taiwan and China and probably Hong Kong There's people in Taiwan who have spec sheets for Ice Lake Based on what Intel is expecting like now Like they're thinking about it They're working on it People who make retention The actual socket retention kit Probably already know or will soon So yeah I mean And you would think that loyalty or legal Like action ability at that level Is so far removed that it'd be easier to leak something Yeah rather than getting legal to sign off on something I mean we've had like I've had really frank conversations with Okay I'll say with a big three company that I criticized recently I'll say that So one of them So one of them And the conversation went Look you guys have an opportunity right now To turn this criticism into a huge PR win All you have to do is come on stream with me And talk about it Talk about how you did something Maybe not wrong but not in the consumer's best interest But not hide from questions And say sorry and commit to do better That's what you have to do You can take this thing that we can hopefully both agree If we both live on planet earth and drink the same water And eat the same food and live in the same reality That we can both agree happened That's questionable Yeah And you guys can just take it head on And the email thread is actually quite long Like it's a couple dozen replies And there was a conference call that did take place Where we talked about it And then it went dead So it got killed by a C level or a VP level or legal And we're just not going to talk about it apparently That happens a lot with legal I found Like going to for example, a recent example The statement on Vega pricing being exceptionally ambiguous There was a reason for that and it's a legal reason Really? Well yeah but not like we're going to get in trouble I guess they'd be bound to it Yeah like a preemptive typical like legal being overly concerned About specific phrasing That kills a lot of conversations Yeah Which is unfortunate because like if you got people on this Either any kind of corporate representative To actually answer harder questions Whether or not the answer is actually good Yeah That'd still be a big thing Yeah That's unfortunate Okay last topic that I think should be a pretty good one for you Actually do you prefer this one or do you want me to find something else? What's the other one? Hold on, hold on I got this, I got this This one That's kind of interesting Okay sure Running a website So this was posted by Goodbytes on the forum Don't worry I know But basically in a nutshell Thanks to JavaScript which is not to be confused with Java The programming language The Pirate Bay website has put code in their site That turns visiting computers into mining machines for cryptocurrency Without the user knowing So your CPU fan is just going to like ramp up Visitors of the site are completely unaware of the activity Other than if you open up Task Manager You'll see that your CPU is spiking to really high load Maybe even reaching 100% And you may notice that your system is going to be a little bit less responsive If you're quite familiar with how it's supposed to be running So Pirate Bay Not run by super ethical people So regardless of what we say about the validity of this I think they're going to keep doing it But your thoughts So as I understand it After this was discovered They said it was a 24 hour trial Yes, here I got a quote You want to quote? The miner is being tested for a short period Approximately 24 hours as a new way to generate revenue So they didn't mince any words Yeah they don't care From like I will say that in a sort of malicious way It's absolutely brilliant To try and make money without being found out But it's so wrong Yeah it's clever It's just like how the word great can be used for evil It's a great idea The thing with that particular cleverness Is that when you are found out and they were It's pretty bad You're like really digging into It's generating more power consumption I don't think they care Here's a question for you though If you're still a Pirate Bay user at this point I don't follow the piracy scene as closely as I once did It is no secret that I had a pirated copy of Far Cry I definitely did Part of the issue was that my disc 1 didn't work anymore But there were definitely other games I didn't have a broken disc 1 for Let's put it that way But even I know that with all the issues they've gone through With some of the changes in terms of the personnel running it Pirate Bay is not Pirate Bay And I wouldn't be over there using it So in my mind if you're still using Pirate Bay Are you even going to notice the CPU spike? Are you going to know of an alternative? Are you just stuck with it? Yeah, if you're using it at this point I guess you're either very loyal or don't know a better option Loyal to what? A logo? I like what I can get from here And I haven't looked elsewhere I like any other brand loyalty You were talking about Apple a few minutes ago I was talking about Apple a few minutes ago This Coin Hive JavaScript miner has definitely been used before We've talked about a similar story I don't remember what website I don't think it was a site at this kind of scale though No, I don't even remember what it was I feel like it had something to do with Minecraft But it's been used before for sure Here, I'm bringing up... Is it.org these days? I don't know Okay, so bringing it up on Alexa, which is an inherently flawed data collection method Apparently, they're in the top 100 sites Global rank 89 If you check a trafficestimate.com or Quantcast, you'll get a pretty accurate picture Okay, so let's throw it over there as well The piratebay.org Isn't it.se? Probably changes Holy crap Estimated monthly traffic visits in the 70 million range per month That's bigger than AnandTech when it was at its peak It was about 40 million... Well, it's somewhere around there But they were at 40 million page views per month for a while Just to give you a sense of scale It also has it at an Alexa rank of 136 So I don't know how up to date any of this data is The point is, it's a big site And if you were hitting... Let's say half of the people noticed If you were hitting 25-30 million machines And it runs as long as the tab is open somewhere in your browser For even a few hours a day Even for that 24 hour period, that's pretty good If you hit a couple million systems And you just go to sleep and wake up with... Well, it's basically they've built a botnet to mine That they don't even have to install malware on Unless you... Yeah, right So it's brilliant in that way, but it's also supremely dickish Yeah, and I... I mean, you're in that community, so I don't know Okay, last discussion point around this Are you getting your Just Desserts for pirating? I don't know that I have a comment on that Are you sure? Come on, it's a land show No one holds you to anything you say on this show anyway I don't think it's necessarily just Because I think it would have to be in a different direction But I think it's... Justice relies on a fair trial, blah, blah, blah So, blah, blah, blah, legal system But I think it's like you're in the undercity And you're trying to pickpocket something And someone's in your pocket too And things are just happening So you're painting the pirate as the downtrodden, like... No, no, no Like, you know, like... The Jedi's go down to the undercity to do some shady stuff sometimes too Sometimes good people go down there I'm having a hard time following your analogy here I think so, I... There are... If you go to like the shady part of town to buy some like lifted item And something bad happens to you while you're there Like, you didn't ask for it to happen, but like... Nope But you also could have avoided it You probably could have avoided it But then, then now we can bring up the Sony Rootkit thing Could you have avoided it By going to the shiny store that's well lit on the main street And buying it See, but then I feel bad But also from the... I think there are valid uses for torrents for one They're not as widespread probably At least not publicly known So there's valid reasons to use them There are people who are visiting the site who... We've used torrents We've distributed files Yeah, patching games, especially way back in the day I know, I think it was Eve client The best way to download it for a long time was... I mean, Blizzard couldn't possibly have afforded dedicated servers in the early days of WoW You know? With all that StarCraft money Yeah, with all that WoW money You could turn off the peer-to-peer downloading Okay, so sorry, go ahead You were gonna say something And then you were kind of letting us talk over you So that you could avoid it So I'm not letting that happen again I wasn't trying to avoid it I think there are... People may be visiting the site for reasons that are not... That don't involve torrenting or stealing software I see You know, what if I'm researching a story, right? And I go there and I'm affected I feel really bad for the four people that that affects Yeah Me too You're talking about Far Cry, right? Maybe whenever Star Wars Battlefront 2 came out More than a decade ago I had the disc, it didn't work because it had whatever security crap on it And so I had to download the game But I had a valid serial number So to me that was a justified use Absolutely Because I paid for it, it should work Especially if you put in the serial number Yeah That's not even... So I don't know that it's as simple as an eye for an eye in this instance No, it's not So the collateral damage argument The fact that it is not just if it is not... If there's no justice system Yeah So, okay, we're in agreement then They're gigantic dicks Right Okay, cool Speaking of gigantic dicks, Riley Please come join us Wow That was harsh Well, I could have meant that you're really well endowed I didn't Thank you so much, Linus That's so nice Such a nice thing to say Such an awkward thing to say So, introduce yourself Hi, I'm Riley I'm from a channel called NCIX Tech Tips You've probably never heard of it, Linus We make videos about computers sort of like you, but... Sort of in the style of Linus, but he's gone now Yeah, yeah, mentally Whoa, whoa, whoa Look, I feel like I... When you have kids, you'll understand Yeah, no, I'm gonna be calling you up for advice Yep, my advice, just get the operation now Okay I'm just kidding, I love my kids, they're wonderful If my kids are ever watching this in the future... No, I already told you your advice This is gonna end up being like one of those things where you say, Look, I'm not saying Hitler was... I didn't say it, I didn't say it, see? But where people take the clip, right? Why? They take it out of the context Oh, you know what? Actually, I'm gonna kick you off for a second Because I'm sure you want nothing to do with our sponsors and stuff Yeah, okay, see you later So you'll be back in a second I promise I'll bring you back I didn't just bring you in for that Right in front of the camera Brilliant, it's like he makes videos So our sponsors today, Squarespace I wonder how... you know what? I'm gonna go off... actually, I'm not gonna go off script Don't do it, there might be a difference We're gonna end up saying build it beautiful Which we're not allowed to say during our Squarespace spots It's gonna happen Like three minutes have gone by and there's been two of them It's gonna happen Come on, pull it together, man Squarespace, the place to go if you want to build a beautiful, simple website It starts at just 12 bucks a month You get a free domain if you buy Squarespace for the year It's super easy Like, if we were building Float Plane on Squarespace It would be done, like ages ago All you gotta do is you pick one of their templates You like drag and drop pictures and text boxes You populate everything and boom! 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Yes Apparently, they think they do Yes Because they're still sponsoring the when show Thank you for needing an introduction We love you guys We really do iFixit makes great products We use them for the last week They have great guides So, if you want to be part of the right to repair revolution Or even if you don't care about that whole politicized sort of thing that's going on And you're just gonna Whether it's illegal or legal You're just gonna repair your stuff regardless iFixit's got you covered They've got guides for how to do it They've got replacement Hard to find parts Things like gaskets and adhesive seals Stuff that you otherwise wouldn't be able to put your device back together with And they've got all the tools you need for disassembly And their ProTech Toolkit, which is awesome Is now only $60 including their 64-bit driver kit All the prying and wedging tools you need to take apart almost anything Super helpful Their suction cups Their flex extension And it's awesome So basically, head over to iFixit.com slash Linus And snag a ProTech Toolkit for just $60 Odds are you'll spend less on your ProTech Toolkit than you would have on a single repair Taking it to a shop to have somebody else do it for you And then you'll be equipped for the future Leading us to our last sponsor Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun Hold on, hold on, no nip slip No, no, no nip slip Inappropriate Hold on, hold on, we're keeping it nip slip free We're trying, we're trying We're trying Yeah, did it Heck yeah Mack Weldon I'm still really enjoying my job So Mack Weldon, tons of comfortable clothes Whether we're talking underwear, socks, shirts, undershirts, hoodies, sweatpants They are so confident you're gonna love them That if you order They will actually So you order like a pair of boxers If you don't like your first pair, you can keep it And they will still refund you No questions asked Best thing about Mack Weldon for me personally As someone who sweats a bit You know, it's not really sweat It's more of like a glow You know, healthy glow They have a line of silver underwear and shirts That are naturally antimicrobial That's what silver does Which, if you guys know much about sweat Is what causes it to smell And so they are naturally Actually odor killing Which is pretty cool So go over to MackWeldon.com And use offer code TechTips to save 20% Go check it out Comfy clothes and you won't smell as bad as me Unless I'm also wearing Mack Weldon Then again, if you don't sweat as much as me Then like, I mean it's not magic It's antimicrobial It's not like a freaking chemical bath So how many times do you think you've shown your audience your nipples at this point? Actually very well, okay Cause I feel like I've personally seen them I think he's gone out of his way a number of times He's like, oh here, oh I can show my nipples here They're okay nipples They're great nipples I mean they're not like, you know, they're not like really disgusting or anything So like, I'm not They're fine, they're fine nipples I remember even one of our first recruitment videos It's like, yeah I'm just gonna wear my boxers That's it Like I wrote that portion of the video Where Ed comes out with a laptop And he's just like, okay Linus are you ready for the shoot? And I'm just like in my boxers with sunglasses on Holding like two MP5s And he's just like, nope, nope And I'm just like, what? That seems like an Ivan move Yeah MP5? So we were just trying to have some It's so weird that they used to work together for a long time And now it's the two again, wow So interesting Oh my goodness I would have seen that coming So similar sense of humor Let's jump right into this Have you had a look at this? Have you seen this? Have you heard about this? Google buys HTC but it's a little more complicated than that So the original article here is from Android Central 1.1 billion? Basically for the right to hire people? You know, I don't know I feel like they Who did they hire? Motorola before? Well they bought Motorola And then flipped them to Lenovo And then they flipped them over So I feel like maybe they were like Okay we tried buying a phone company before and it didn't work out Well maybe the issue was that they bought Motorola Who hadn't done anything relevant I mean, okay, lots of patents But Okay so this is at It affects apparently about 2,000 employees The reason why I'm stuttering is This deal is to be able to hire them at a cost of about $550,000 per employee These are some primo employees They are the best employees They're the best employees You have a reason You've never seen employees like this Trust me Now to be clear This also gives them a non-exclusive license to HTC's intellectual property Now I suspect If I had to guess based on that HTC's Non-exclusive Non-exclusive is fine Because from what I can tell Google doesn't want HTC to go out of business So they're not going to like exclusively license everything and hire What is it? I think it's about half of their staff Is that right? Is it half? I don't know I think it's something like that Don't quote me on that one though But it's a significant number of their staff They don't want them to go out of business Because they still I believe they still intend to contract manufacturer with HTC They are not acquiring any of the manufacturing Right I wonder if the employees get any of the cash from their like Right to be sold like cattle I super bet not Like this is so weird Yeah, it's like they're paying Google is paying HTC for the right to pay the employees their wage They don't get anything out of it Whether HTC has made anything relevant in the last three years or not They own Look at the squeezy thing Sorry, go ahead They own a ton of cell phone IP Because they were the OG Android cell phone manufacturer So one of the biggest challenges around building a product Is not figuring out how to build a product One of the biggest challenges is figuring out how to build a product Without infringing on an 800 pound gorilla Who's gonna just lawsuit you into the dirt For building something that happens to infringe on their patent Even if you developed it independently I mean that's why it's pretty much impossible for anyone else to show up And become a GPU manufacturer at this point It's like done Intel tried And if Intel can't do it Quite frankly Well, maybe Apple could still do it My question is Other than that I don't think so My question is how many times is Google going to do this Like when an Android phone manufacturer is struggling Because when they bought Motorola, Motorola was basically Almost irrelevant And then if they hadn't been bought They would have been done But now they're doing great again Well sort of But like you know I wouldn't be surprised if it kept happening Remember it's really hard to tell if a Chinese backed company is doing great though Well okay, I don't know their numbers Because they could just be getting You could be seeing all these ads And all these new products and all this stuff But it could be just literally Chinese government money just paying for all of it True And then just buying the inventory off the shelves when it's done And burying it in a hole like we don't know Or incinerating it And then creating rain to wash it out of the air Like we don't know Yeah, no that's fair But in terms of like brand awareness I mean I know that I've been hearing a lot more about like the Moto Moto G series and stuff Right They kind of found a niche as like this budget thing Like my brother in law has one I think they're killing it in India too Right, yeah Is my understanding anyway I could be wrong about that So like is the same thing going to happen with HTC Like by They didn't buy the whole company, they bought part of it but like I don't know, it's going to be interesting to see whether it actually saves them or not Right I love HTC, I kind of have an emotional connection to them Because they're Did you ever see that original commercial with like with the We are you and you and you I think so, yeah And the piano is like Anyways, I like that commercial So because that commercial I don't want them to go Yeah, yeah It's probably from a PR firm They were my first That hired an ad agency but whatever Yeah, my first Android phone was in HTC I don't know There we go Okay, now speaking of the feels from when you were a kid This original article is from BBC.com Toys R Us Toys R Us Files for bankruptcy protection in the US and Canada Damn Wow, 64 I go there all the time 64,000 employees they have I wanted to start a GoFundMe for real GoFundMe for Toys R Us I think they're in the whole 4 billion 4 billion? 4 billion I think We can do it guys Can we raise If every person on earth legitimately Every single one of them Contributed 50 cents We need a Sarah McLachlan commercial Yeah Look in the eyes of this Batman action figure So a US bankruptcy judge approved a loan of more than 2 billion To help stabilize the toy chain I love Toys R Us as much as anyone But why is anybody giving gigantic big box retail chains billion dollar loans I was going to say this is just another Amazon created corpse Like Amazon just murdered this company Yep Would you lend them 2 billion dollars? No I'd have to get 2 billion dollars first Clearly they already I'm not sure how to answer that question The fact that they owe 2 billion dollars Tells us everything we need to know about how the business is going Billions! I mean the stuff they sell is like 30 bucks Well I don't know Lego man Okay that's true Lego is expensive Yeah So in 2016 about 13.7% of all toy sales were online And that's up 6.5% from 5 years ago That's interesting though That's in 2016, that's last year In countries where Amazon is not as big So the UK, the EU in general, Asia, not included in the bankruptcy Really? So it's just countries where Amazon is big Cause I wonder who killed Toys R Us This is the thing about the rise of Amazon It's like you know, I just seen was saying she can order something and have it arrive in 15 minutes We don't have that luxury here in Canada No not yet But it's like it's same day Yeah, it's incredible Maybe by 9pm but it's same day But even here it's like a couple days as long as it's got Prime We have a lot less Prime selection But like I definitely get my money's worth out of Prime That's for free shipping If you want to pay for it you can get it by 9pm same day As long as you order it before I think it's 11am or something And it's just like it's actually more, it takes less time Like out of my life by an order of magnitude Oh yeah, oh yeah To where I just like, like if my kids have a stupid birthday party to go to Amazon, top selling toys, find something that doesn't look like plastic garbage Order it and don't think about it anymore because my wife will wrap it And also you don't have to feel like kind of a weirdo walking into a toy store as a grown adult Like this isn't for me This is for my friend This is for my friend with a pitot stash Yeah, yeah exactly Yeah, your pitot stash was great by the way I want to bring it back You should bring back the pitot stash Every time I shave I just shave the whole thing and forget that I'm like oh yeah I want a stash You know what, if you want to remember just take like a big sharpie and just draw on here And then you'll see it until it grows over And it'll look basically the same Hey it'll remind you I've had that for a long time but it's almost mainstream now It's too, you know, I was a hipster when I had it Yeah, it's like now you see a guy with mustache you're like oh It's just a color due to the mustache Alright, so last topic of the day This could change memes forever Pepe the Frog's creator gets legal against the alt-right So Yes The creator Matt Beery and his lawyers have taken legal action against the alt-right serving cease and desist orders to several alt-right personalities and websites including Richard Spencer and Mike Cernovich So Spencer, Pepe is all over his site and the mascot for his podcast Alt-Right Politics And for Cernovich he used a 3D version of Pepe dancing with Hillary Clinton reading aloud sections of her new book He's also served as cease and desist against r slash the Donald And as someone who has tried to contact Reddit about the content on their site before I can say that's probably not going anywhere They're really really good at just ignoring me They've also issued DMCA takedown requests to Reddit, Amazon, YouTube and Twitter Notifying them that use of Pepe by the alt-right on their platforms is copyright infringement And at the end of August, Beery's lawyers actually reached a settlement with Eric Hauser who appropriated Pepe's image for use in an Islamophobic children's book So they forced him to stop selling the book and made him donate the profits to the Council on American Islamic Relations Apparently Google Play has stopped selling build the wall of the game Because of advertising with special guest appearances from Pepe That's why they've stopped selling it Previously Apple had refused to publish the game until it removed Pepe the Frog And Apple has a blanket ban against Pepe the Frog that it has enforced against multiple app creators This is fascinating because it kind of opens up a conversation about who owns memes Yes Like memes have kind of existed as a sort of like distributed content that kind of arose from the internet sort of organically So it's like if you make a meme and it becomes a meme, do you own the copyright? And the answer until now, though I don't, to my knowledge this hasn't been like seriously legally defined I don't really think it's a question, I think you absolutely do Right Because you created something But a lot of the time it's derivative, but not derivative enough You didn't create anything, you captioned it in a lot of cases And the caption is often part of the original creation And it has never been enforced to this kind of a degree Now to be clear, it looks like Matt Fury is only going after the alt right here But if he wins a bunch of these battles, if he wins a battle against Reddit, imagine he wins against Reddit There's some problems though, if he only goes after the alt right That would mean that he's doing it because he doesn't like how very specific people are using it Exactly Don't think that's a way that you can defend it Also, he let it happen for so long I think that hurts his case a lot That he probably won't be able to defend it anymore because he seemed okay with it I think we've even talked on the WAN show about how at one point in time he was just like Peppy the Frog is just a thing, man It was like the most stoned statement I've ever read It's just the frog, don't you think? Do you remember that? I don't remember It was from quite a while ago, but it was like a very like everyone just gets to coexist And just Peppy the Frog is just awesome Peppy the Frog is for everyone He's probably taking a bunch of crap for it Very likely But it's been so long and that statement came out And if there's a statement saying sure you can use it, he's basically screwed The obvious parallel here is to the PewDiePie situation where the Firewatch developer goes And does a DMCA take down specifically of PewDiePie's Firewatch content Because they didn't agree with how, you know, with And there's a similar problem there, which is probably why you're bringing this up But on Firewatch's website there's a specific yes, you can use this for streaming and video creation And you can monetize it And like that one's a little bit more direct The Firewatch one is very clean cut I'm not even 100% sure about the Peppy the Frog one It was from a while ago and I think it was pretty vague anyways But if there's a confirm that you can use it, like Right I mean to be fair, is the question whether he's like he's justified in doing this? Because I think he is Yeah, I don't think that's the question The question of whether it's like legally Yeah, he's justified in Whether he'll win I'm talking about whether I think he'll win, yeah Whether he's justified in doing this is not the debate for sure If someone creates an image, it belongs to them And people can't use it without permission But what the discussion is is around the fact that this has always been this gray area And now we're opening up this can of worms that goes okay If people are going to start defending their memes, then are we going to kill memes? I don't think we will This is how memes die Not with a bang But with a whimper But with glorious applause I think there will still definitely be some Yeah, yeah, we've got to fit it in there I think there's definitely still going to be some like freeware memes And I bet you there will be like a Reddit community around like anything posted in here If it is OC, has some license, like the public meming license Where everyone is allowed to use it forever And then people are going to start creating memes out of stuff that comes out of there And then memes will be saved I bet you that will happen If this like goes through, I bet no, no The internet would rally around memes Imgur and Reddit would get behind memes 4chan too, let's not leave that out All these big sites, they're all going to get behind memes Let's bring back E-Bomb's world while we're at it Yeah, they'll save memes too, why not? I mean for this to be the death of memes It kind of requires every meme creator To also do that To yeah, go after copyright for like their memes, right? Which I don't think Yeah, I don't think that generally people are responsible for creating these kind of things I would be a lot more hesitant to use them though Use what? If anyone had won a legal fight ever True, true, true As an individual I might just YOLO it But as a business, dead I think as an individual you'd be fine But how does fair use play into that? Because like if you take a meme and you're like Okay, I'm going to make a copy of this meme and put your like block text caption on it That's not, I mean that's technically parody It's technically kind of like For commercial use it's tough Yeah, well if it's commercial use That's the difference especially when there was the exact same font usually on the previous one I don't think you'd get away with that I think you'd have to change the core of the image Yep Alright, so that's pretty much it for the LAN show for today Thank you guys for tuning in Big thanks to our special guests Justine, Stephen and Riley You can check out, well I mean you're watching on Twitch right now Or maybe you're not, maybe you're watching on YouTube If you're watching on YouTube we'll have links to Where you can go check those guys out in the video description If you're on Twitch, Google is a really cool website Yeah It works quite well There's everything on there They got everything on Google Alright I'm rolling the outro I mean they can still hear us You guys are killing me here They heard you say I'm rolling the outro You guys are killing me You're killing me here Are you alive? You're killing me I can still be alive while you're killing me What's taking so long? Am I dead? Am I alive? I do not know Oh my god How long is this outro going to be?