 Hey, this is Ross Minnow with The Verge and we are at South by Southwest checking out the Oculus Rift panel that just ended. We are here with Paul Bettner, he is the CEO of Verge and the co-creator of Words with Friends with his brother. Paul, how are you doing? Good, how are you doing? So we just got done with the panel, you're on it, you're super enthusiastic about it. Can I ask, how did you get involved? Well, I backed the project. I think, you know, like I said, the panel, I was actually I think one of their first like elite level backers and, you know, as I mentioned, I really believed in the dream of it before I even knew that the dream was real. Obviously, you've been in contact since. You guys meet, you guys did the panel together. What was your first time meeting Palmer like? It was pretty awesome. I mean, you walk into their offices and it's like, it's Palmer and he's got no shoes on and it's a bunch of soldering irons and like you realize, wow, this is the real thing, what these guys are doing here. You know, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if I was going to just walk into something that's like, oh, it's all venture capitalists and it's all whatever. No, these guys are the real deal. So what was it like when you tried for the first time? When you take it off, Palmer likes to say welcome back and that's the best way to describe it. I mean, you just, you really do, but you lose track of where you are in just a few minutes after having it, having it on, you forget that you're sitting in an office and that you're like, there's people standing around you, whatever. You're just completely immersed. Right. So we talk about short burst games, we talk about longer form exploration games on there. What do you think is like the best kind of genres for this and like even the best links of using this? I think the best genres right now, just because I haven't figured out anything better, are games where you sit in a chair. Because that's what you're actually doing when you wear this thing. So racing games, flying games, Chris Roberts space game, you know, but also that's, so that's one category. Also, I think there's this other, this whole other category, which is games that put you in a situation that you just, where it's just all about the visual experience. So like a falling game or a game where you're flying or like, you just, you fall nonstop. So I have this crazy idea for a multiplayer game where you take, you take two players in the rift and you shrink one of them down to the size of an inch and you have the other one huge and you have to be able to track hands to make this work. But you have one player pick up the other player. Like how crazy, you just see this huge hand come down and like pick you up and fling you like, yeah, exactly. So Jack and the Jot, you just made a great movie tie in game. Yes, yes. All right, so how about this one? Let's say, what about hand based gestures? Maybe a tile based word game of source. Would that work in a virtual space? No, not really. I mean, it would, but the thing is you got to realize like to make a game like that work, you first have to build the whole world, then build a table and this great living room and then you get to make the game and put it on the table with little pieces. So it's like you have to do a lot of work just to do a board game because you can't, it's not like words of friends or something where you can just put it right in somebody's face. It's, it doesn't make any sense in VR. It has to be some kind of action, basically an action forward moving game for that to work. It has to be, it has to be where you're immersed in a world and you don't really get, you're not immersed in chess. Maybe if something like battle chess where you're actually one of the characters, you know, but if it's just, you know, a board game of chess, like that could work, but it's not, it's not the right fit for this kind of platform. All right, last question. What is the first project you guys are going to work on as VRS for the Oculus Rift? We're not ready to announce that yet. I have to ask. That's okay. Right? You know, I mentioned on the panel, like right now we're just trying to figure out the basic components of a VR game. And like, you know, like Cliff was saying, it's a new type of language. The things that make for a compelling VR game are completely different than what we've experienced on TV. So, you know, we're just really trying to figure out what those core nuggets are so that we can then put a game together around them. But I mean, you know, it's like I said, figuring out that falling is a really compelling thing. So maybe we make a game around that, you know, like those are those things. We're just figuring out those first little steps. Great. Well, Paul, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.