 Hey and welcome to the Vergecast for the week of March 3rd, 2014. I'm Josh Dapolsky. I'm TC Sadek and I've been forced here against my will. I'm Katie Drummond and same thing. Yep. I did not volunteer for this. Did I say this was the Vergecast? Please help. I meant it's the prisoner cast. Please help. Seriously, this hair is out of control today. This is the first time I've seen it and it sucks. Look at this. It's like 1980. The year is 1988. Michael Keaton is preparing for his role in Batman, Tim Burton's Batman and this is my hair. Anyhow, this is the Vergecast where we discuss the week and topics of interest to you. Maybe or maybe not. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because we're going to talk about them anyhow. You can't stop us. TC and Katie are here, which I'm very excited about. Katie doesn't want to be here against her wishes. No, it's fine. I'm happy to do it. Oh and we're classing it up. These guys had a plan. I came in and they're like, we're going to class it up with a bottle of wine. What is that? Tell us about this wine. It's a Napa Valley Cabernet Sauvignon 2011. Do you hear that pronunciation? That's because Katie is not only a wine drinker, but a Canadian who is a native French speaker. True. Is that true? C'est vrai. Yes. Of course, as we know, the Canadian variation of French is quite guttural in its sound. No, I'm kidding. Animal. It's like animal grunting. No, it's a beautiful language and a beautiful people. Thank you. It's so wonderful that we have one of them on the show today. Thank you so much. I'm a real fan. I came from a doctor's appointment, a baby doctor appointment. Let me tell you about the baby. Yeah, definitely. The baby's great. It's confirmed today. I don't know what those sounds I just made were were not actual sounds. Did I tell everybody the name of my baby? I don't know if I want to dox my baby. Don't dox it. I didn't want to do it. The baby's name is... Don't say it. It's private. It's private for right now. It's a Satoshi Nakamoto. My baby has been doxed. She is the creator of Bitcoin. Okay, so this is a story to be... Aggressively doxed. Aggressively doxed. But that's okay. Reddit's going to get back at those people, at that writer. So really interesting story in Newsweek today. They claim that it has discovered the true Satoshi Nakamoto, the creator of Bitcoin. But the story is really weird because it doesn't actually provide any... There's no evidence whatsoever besides the name and some coincidences. I mean... He's like a libertarian. There's no smoking gun. They're like, he likes computers and he hates the government. He's a Ron Paul stuff. Well, I think that's a little bit of a flip reaction. I think coincidences, it's like a series of pretty compelling timeline and some pretty compelling facts. You're trying to balance this opening of the wide with... No, okay. This is not a very compelling one. No, no, no. The story is actually really interesting and I agree though. It is like, as I read through it, I wish there had been one thing there where I was like, yes, definitely, slam dunk. Well, what about the... Sorry. No, go ahead. What about the quote from him where he, it sounds like said something along the lines of, I'm no longer involved with that. It's been handed off to other people. I really want to be a private person. I don't know. I feel like, yes, that's kind of a smoking gun. It all feels... And that combined with his name is... It all feels a lot like a plot from The Good Wife, as far as I'm concerned. I'm on season two right now. Oh my God. It's great. I don't want to ruin it for you, but there is a Bitcoin plot. Yeah, it kind of seems like this guy just was a nerd who created this thing with his real name on it. Yeah. But then because nobody knew who he was, it became his big conspiracy theory. What is the saying that it's... Serve myself first over here. It's never, never... It's like, don't assume something is highly complex when it's actually probably pretty stupid. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. No, that's not it. That sounded really smart. It's not the one where if you eliminate all possibilities, whatever remains, it's not that. I'm sure just tweeted me if you know what I'm saying, but there's this saying, which is... This is exciting. It does feel classy. Cheers. It does feel... Yeah, hold on. Wait, let's all cheers. Can I have- Thank you to Avalon. No, don't thank you to Avalon. We paid for the wine. Avalon did provide us with wine. I'm making them for me tonight. Are you cheering for me? I was going to double fist, but... Let's do a little... All right. To a more classy... I'm coming underneath. Experience. Okay. All right. Bottoms up. It's good. What a great mouth feel. I like that. It goes perfectly with the mouthwash I just swished with 20 minutes ago before leaving the house. Very, very bold. It tastes a little cheap at the end. Yeah. It has a finish of a stingy jerk. Right? Yeah. Like somebody like asking for more... You're splitting a check and they're asking for more money than they're putting in. Anyhow. Thanks to Ross Miller, our in-house sommelier. Yeah. Ross, great job-ish. Great-ish job. It'll do. Katie, come see this. It'll do, Ross. I have to say, I'm sorry if you're listening to this or watching this right now because it can't be entertaining, but I think it's relatively entertaining to us. So anyhow, the Bitcoin story. Now the interesting follow on to this is not that they have potentially discovered this guy who is... Occam's razor is what everybody's saying is the thing. What is the actual rule though? I'm trying to remember the wording of it and I can't. This is what people are tweeting at me right now. Occam's razor? Yeah. What's Occam's razor? I can't remember. Literally, it's just coming in. I keep seeing this alert that people are like, Occam's razor. So immediately after Satoshi Nakamoto was doxxed by this writer, Reddit took to action, flew into action, ready to doxx the address, the home address, social security number and phone number of the writer for doing... It was a woman, right? What is her name? Yeah, Leah McGrath Goodman. Yeah, for doing her job as a reporter. This is what reporting is. It's like you don't know something. There are some legitimate ethical concerns that were brought up. She went undercover. She misrepresented her identity. So you're on Reddit, you're like, let's get rid of it. First of all, I'm so sick of Reddit. I'm sick of their sanctimonious bullshit about anonymity. It's like 4chan with an agenda or something. It's like 4chan where the messages don't go well. It's like 4chan for Ron Paul supporters. But I don't know, I read this first thing this morning and just as a reader, it made me feel a little bit uncomfortable. Great journalism is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable. I was gonna say that, but... That's not a rule, by the way. It's just like the showing up at someone's house when they don't want you there. There's something about it that just doesn't appeal to me as a reader or as a reporter even. I think the question is if this guy were responsible for some kind of crime, then you could have a little more behind it. I don't have a problem with it because the story needs to happen. We need to just discover who this person is and get over it. The question is, is this information in the public interest? Is there a compelling need for people to know who the guy is? I have read that argument today. I think there's an argument for that. I think there's an argument. I mean, I think that... I don't think it's a great argument, but I think you can make one. I think it would be tough to say, no, it's not in the public's interest to know this. When you get right down to it, we're talking about potentially a emergent currency or commodity and it would be good to know where it came from. But why? I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. This guy just wants to live his life privately with his family in California. I don't really see what public good it does. Well, it's his fault for creating a cryptocurrency that took off. I mean, that's what happens when you become... he shouldn't have used his real name if he didn't want to be found. That's what I'd have done. Pseudonym. It's what everybody thought it was. You don't want to be discovered. Don't put your name on it. I mean, there are a lot of factors. Like he might've had no idea that it would get as big as it is today. I mean, when I write all my hate speech on the internet, I use a pseudonym because I don't want it to get back to me. My thousands and thousands of pages of hate speech that you don't know about. Joshua Ryan. DJ Joshua Ryan. Yeah, no. I see the argument, but I also think it's a really interesting story and I think that people have been asking this question for a long time. And also he put his name on it. And I think that if the name was like, you know, Dr. X, it would be, you know, you might go looking for the guy, but it would be much harder to find him. Something tells me that at some point he maybe wanted to be found. And that's the other thing is that he has how many hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin that he couldn't cash in because it would have doxed him. No, would it have? That's not the point of it? That's what I've been reading today. Well, Bitcoin transactions are not like perfectly anonymous. Someone really wants to find out who you are and they can do that. Presumably he would have like a lot of Bitcoin and he would stand out in a crowd in terms of Bitcoin transactions. So the argument is like he's not like a Bill Gates or like a Steve, well, whoever. He has 1.5 million Bitcoin. Right. Oh, really? That's not like liquid cash and the guy is just living in a rent, like a random house. What's the value of 1.5 million Bitcoin? Its current value is $645. You mean one Bitcoin? Yeah. So what's that? $645 times 1.5 million. Dude, cash this in now. Almost a billion dollars. I just would just say, just cash it in. Oh yeah, you're done. Just get your billion. Buy an island. Just get your billion and invest it in something like solvent. And then you can buy some security guards. That's crazy, by the way. Yeah, it is. That's crazy. But here's what's crazy about it. He was like, hey, what if I created a currency and now he has a billion dollars worth of it and it's three years later or something. It's not like, you know, how long has it been around? And not just him, but there were other people like early on who were just like, yeah, I'll spend 10 bucks on Bitcoin when it's nothing. And now they have millions of dollars. It's funny, somebody tweeted me, they're like, do you have a bunch of Bitcoin? You guys write about it so much. I was like, I don't have any Bitcoin. But in the early days of Bitcoin, I had a friend who was overseas and he was like explaining Bitcoin to me and he's like, here, I'll show you how it works. Get this set up and I'll send you a Bitcoin. It was when it was worth like $2 or less or something. And then recently, and I just had it sitting there, one Bitcoin. And it was like recently when it was worth $1,000. He's like, hey, can I get that Bitcoin back from you? I literally had to get a laptop out of my closet from like three years ago and open it up and like update stuff and find the software and like just give him his Bitcoin back. Oh, so you gave it back? Of course. I mean, it wasn't mine. Well, it was. It was. Possession is 10 tenths of the law. You were holding it. I mean, that would have been really messed up if I was like, nope. Yeah, well. Would it? He gave it to you as a gift. No, he gave it to me to demonstrate how Bitcoin functioned. Well, his mistake. That should have kept it. Like now I got this thousand bucks. Yeah, exactly. And I went on a crazy shopping spree. Cutting out a sweet haircut. I mean, it was like a big when he gets like the loft and the arcade machine and he gets like some kind of crazy car. He has a go-kart. It would have been just like that except for a thousand dollars worth. So it would have been like me getting a bunch of sandwiches at a bodega. It was like, hey, remember the movie with that kid who just found a million dollars? Richie Rich? No, not Richie Rich. I haven't seen either one of these. It's a different movie where the kid just found like a million dollars. The one directed by Danny Boyle, director of 28 Days Later. What was it called? Blank Check. Blank Check. Blank Check is so good. John in the control room like. Can we play the trailer? He's like, that's my favorite. Blank Check trailer. It's a great movie. Never seen it. Never heard of it. This kid just like finds a million dollars in this botched robbery. What actors are in this? He buys like $20 million worth of stuff. It was some cutie little heartthrob. Yeah, here it is. It's from 1994. So I was. I'm sorry, did you refer to this nine-year-old as a heartthrob? I was nine years old when this came out. I was nine. If a man had said that about a girl, boy, the cops would be in here right now. He was like the. Double standard. Like Macaulay Culkin, like B-list edition. Who is he? It's probably Stephen Dorff or something. And Bonsal? Oh, Brian Bonsal. Is it Bonsal or Bonsai? Brian Bonsal. Don't know either one of those people. He's a former child actor. He was in a TV show. He played the part Klingon part human son of Worf on Star Trek The Next Generation. That's the show that he was in. I'm very familiar with this actor and very familiar with one of his most beloved characters. He is retired from acting. Such a shame. He has no interest. Oh, he's had some substance abuse problems. Well, he was a child actor that kind of goes to the territory. When you get your first contract as a child actor, they also hand you a crack pipe. Yeah, sounds like it. Like you'll need this to just get through the next few years. That's effed up. Is it? Why is that effed up? You know it's true. Look at Lindsay Lohan. This is so sad. Have you seen Lindsay Lohan has a new. Oh, the Oprah funded documentary. Well, it's like a reality show. Reality show. But it's like a little bit more classy. So it's like a documentary. Watch it with that. We only have one bottle. Yeah, take it easy. We know how you like to hit the wine. Am I right? This guy's Instagram. It's like looking at a liquor store. Don't dox my Instagram. This guy's Instagram is like, hey, check out what we got on the shelves of our liquor store. Quit doxing me. I'm like, wait a second. This is TC's house. It's upsetting, disturbing, and I'm worried about him. Anyhow, so maybe the creator of Bitcoin has been revealed, and also it's extremely mundane. It's not like a conspiracy. It's not a shocker. The thing that really gets me is like there's definitely a balance somewhere. But if all you do is read Reddit, it's like if you unveil someone, their real identity you're literally worse than Hitler. They get so mad. Their jimmies get really rustled. Except when you're trying to find the Boston bomber, that it's safety's off, fire at will. If you're looking for a brown guy, no problem. But it's like, I don't know. I think it's a real double standard on Reddit. Well, you know. It's not like they have some law books, some rules. They're like, hey, this is how we do it on Reddit. No, they do have rules. It's like no doxing is their number one rule. Yeah, right. And they ban. I'm sure we'll get banned for talking bad about Reddit. That's what they love to do. They're going to dox me. These are compromised journalists because they don't like Reddit. They're going to find the name of my EverQuest character and look at my- You mean, I'm trying to think of a cool name for an EverQuest character and I didn't have anything at all. I'll never tell. Give me a name. Don't give me the actual name. Give me the kind of name you might give to an EverQuest character. Just like a- Like Greyhorn? Greyhorn? Greyhorn? Yeah. Like Lothar Greyhorn? Something like that? You obviously play. I'm a level 400. Can you get to 400? No. All right. Anyhow, moving on. What's our next topic? I mean, for God's sake. This is definitely a different pace to this than the last one and to any past. Yeah. A more boring pace? I just want to say- No, it's all right. Occam's razor, by the way. A more boring pace? We consider it a good principle to explain the phenomenon by the simplest hypothesis of it possible. Yeah. That's not really like layman's explanation. Yeah. I don't like this. It kind of works. Okay. What else in the news? Oh, this is speaking of Bitcoin. Oh, yes. Adrian Jeffries did, I think, a really excellent report this week on the Lakota tribe creating its own, it's called Mazacoin, its own cryptocurrency for Native American tribes, for that particular tribe. And they're basically saying, look, we're a sovereign nation. We have a right to have our own currency. It's not covered under the laws, the laws of the federal government and how we regulate currency. And we're going on our own on this one. And they're basically like, yeah, it's like we're going to battle the US government for whether or not we can have our own currency. How do you think this will turn out? I mean, the government has said, like a lot of different regulators have said, well, we're not really responsible for this. So I don't think it's going to come up for a little while. Yeah. Right. And I mean, I think, as Adrian pointed out really nicely in the piece, they depend on a lot of money from the federal government. And I mean, that's a huge problem. But there is a concern that introducing this threatens to diminish the amount of money that they're receiving through that channel. The situation is insane. I mean, let's just be clear. The whole concept of Native American tribes in the United States of America is completely bizarre and not really a... None of it seems possible. It all seems... Yeah, I was just going to say, it seems very hard to wrap your head around the fact that this is actually a situation. Right. And that sounds like a very ignorant New York thing to say. No. But it's completely reasonable to say because it's such a complex and impossible thing to do, which is like, they're like, yeah, oh, yeah, hey, we stole your land and killed you. And we're going to give you that back and you're going to be sovereign, but actually not really at all because we're entangled in all of these ways and you need things from us now. And it's like to detach those things at this point, it just seems really... Yeah. Well, they're not even... They're sovereign, but in limited ways. Right. They're what's called domestic dependent nations. Right. So we don't even treat them like we do foreign nations. We treat them like children. Right. It's insane. It's insane. We're terrible. America is terrible, but also the greatest country in the world. Don't get me wrong. I love it. Love it or leave it. These colors go on, et cetera. No, it's a really interesting situation because it creates a unique... Like you had Paul Krugman come out and talk about... Krugman? Why Krugman? Krugman? It doesn't matter. Talk about how Bitcoin's evil, and that was the headline of his piece. Well, that was the headline of his piece, but his actual piece wasn't really about Bitcoin being evil. Right. And in a functioning society and nation that has a government backed currency, sure, maybe that there are arguments who made there, but there are really interesting reasons for why this could be valuable to different communities who don't have their own currency. Yeah. Yeah. Like keeping the money in the community. Right. I think it also is... You can see a place for something like Bitcoin in a lot of... It's not just about like, oh, they have this sovereign state, but you can see it's like this circumvents currency. If you have enough people using it, it becomes a currency unto itself. And there's a big question, I think, because it's not physical. It's not backed by banks. I think it raises a lot of questions. This is interesting to me because if it could work within these communities, it seems like an incredible opportunity to see a cryptocurrency blossom as a day-to-day verifiable, usable form of currency. I just don't see how the US government would ever allow that to truly happen. I mean, the other wrinkle in this is that it sounds like some of these people are using like paper printouts of Mazacoin and like a paper wallet and they need to like... Sounds legit. Yeah. That sounds legit to me. The logistics of it seem like an additional challenge there. It's not sort of a really easy to use digital... Not that Bitcoin is particularly easy to use, I guess. No, it's not. It's all very difficult. And most likely if you do use it, wherever your money is will be stolen. Like nine times out of 10. Yeah. I mean, that's a big problem. There are like a lot of legitimate concerns about this, including like if the value fluctuates wildly, like these communities are already so impoverished that that could be catastrophic. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, really. I mean, the question is about Bitcoin or Mazacoin or any cryptocurrency is like, if it's not backed by banks and institutions, like major institutions, who protects it? How do you protect it? Like how do you pay for the things you need to protect it? And I don't think anybody has the answer right now. Like Mount Gox was not the best place for people to be keeping millions of dollars. I mean, it was run by like two guys. Should call it Mount Dox. Get out. Good one. Just leave right now. But you know, I just think it's... swine's almost gone. Really tearing through it. My lips are so dry right now. It's so dry in New York. Here you go. Do you have any balm? What do you got? Here you go. I don't want to... Oh, it's so good. It's Carmex. No, Carmex is my brand, but I don't know. I use Carmex also. You put it on your finger and then you put it on your lips. It's the finger system. Are you kidding me? You got Carmex strawberry? Yeah. My girlfriend got that for me. That's funny. Actually, that's weird because I just said to Laura, I was like, I was looking on Amazon because I need to refill my Carmex supply. You buy an entire supply of Carmex on Amazon? Add on item. Okay. And I was like, did you know Carmex has a strawberry? You don't mind if I do this? Please be my guest. Uh-huh. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Tastes good. It's got a good lip feel. Here you go. This is a disaster. Can we end? Is it done? We hit an hour? Oh, God. No one's watching. Zero viewers. We can finally talk about what we want to talk about. TC. Should we call our moms? What did you want to talk about next? You want to talk about the hoverboard? Oh, yeah. We need to talk about this stupid- Funny or Die. They're amazing. Worst viral stunt in history. Has everybody seen this? It's Funny or Die created by the same person. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. It's a comedy. That's gonna be the stuff that will be coming up next. one day is so ridiculously unbelievable for starters. This CarMax is amazing. Yeah, it's so good. But then there's a bunch of obvious tells in these videos. And I mean, they're pretty well done. But still, seriously, you're going to make it look like the one from Back to the Future, which is definitely copyrighted in all kinds of ways. That looks fake. That looks totally fake. I'm sorry. Anyhow, so it turned out to be a fake, funny or die viral video. And that's Moby. I mean, I'm confused. Did people actually, actually think this was a thing? Yes. Yes. Yes, they did. That's terrible. Yeah, well, the thing is, like, Funny or Die really, like, fucked it up. Because there was like two, or even a day went by, and they posted all these Facebook things being like, oh, it's real. No, we swear, it's real. And then immediately after that, Funny or Die, instead of milking it, like, what was their end game? Like, oh, we made it. I think their end game was we'd get views on Funny or Die videos. I guess. You know? I mean, this is one of my greatest, one of the greatest tragedies of the internet in its current form is that major brands and companies feel like they need to create viral sensations to have a viable business. I'm not going to name names, but there are plenty of people out there who think it's part of their job to be part of what is viral on the internet. And let me just tell you, brands with millions of dollars creating viral videos, you've ruined everything that is good about what is viral on the internet. You've basically taken something that is sacred and special and magical and turned it into a bullshit garbage marketing campaign, and you've ruined the fun for everybody. Like, when you, with your million dollars, create some sort of scheme to dupe everybody. This goes for Jimmy Kimmel as well, who does the same stuff. It's like, I get that people are dumb and can be easily convinced of things that aren't real are real, convince the things that aren't real are real. But when you do it, particularly when you're the kind of brand that not only will do the stunt, but then write about it or talk about it as if the stunt is a real thing, you ruin what is one of the things that is best about the internet. And it's really gross. We actually went to RaffleCon, I think, two years ago, which was a gathering of people who had become viral sensations on the internet, the old way. The kids these days, the millennials now, they don't know what it's like anymore. But people used to become real viral sensations because they did something stupid or awesome or whatever, like were caught on camera doing something horrible or created some weird piece of art, and it was a real thing on the internet. People are like, oh my god, that's hilarious. Rickrolling wasn't created by Mattel or whatever. Mattel doesn't exist. Rickrolling wasn't like a CNN eye report. That was a thing that happened. That was a thing that came from the ephemera of reality. I don't know what that means. That doesn't mean anything. But it bubbled up out of something natural, which is where many of the greatest things come from, most of the greatest things. Well, the worst is when the brands on Twitter have their rapid response to natural disasters. Oh, you mean like Oreo? Like 27 people get stabbed to death in China by Band-Aids. That's not an actual thing. Sorry, Band-Aid. But what you just said is a bunch of people got stabbed to death in China. We're living in a reality where it's possible. I'm not saying it happened or it will happen. But it's possible that the company that makes Band-Aids, who is this? Probably Johnson & Johnson who makes Band-Aids. They're like, we're here, China. Don't worry, or something like that. Because that's what these stupid brands are doing. You've got to take a variety of things. The thing I was talking about is brands with millions of dollars creating fake viral sensations so they can be part, ultimately marketing something, either themselves or a product, to make money off of the people who watch the stuff or see the stuff, who have completely ruined the concept of what is true viral, true virality on the internet in the sense of things that are created from the kind of dark heart of the internet, the weird place that you don't know where things come from. Who first made that joke? There used to be like, you look, you even. Oh, yeah. Here's one. Pornhub on Martin Luther King Day said, happy MLK day. In honor of his death, make sure to only use the ebony category today. That's real. That's a real tweet. Oh, no. That went around. I mean, not like we expect Pornhub to be classy or something. Just let's baseline. Baseline Pornhub's not going to be. They really bottomed out there. That was, is that a pun? No. Bottomed out. No, like hit off bottom. That's a pretty good pun. You've got to admit. I mean, anything could be a pun right now. Not really. I mean. I think. But they really blew it. I mean, I thought this whole video was dumb, and I just ignored the whole thing. Come on. No? Nothing? OK, anyhow, the point is, it's a slow burn. That's a slow burn. It's still up. It's still up. I'd have been like, yeah, I guess that wasn't poor taste, even for Pornhub. But that's one thing. But the other thing is, I'm actually less upset about people capitalizing on things that happen. Like, yeah, it's gross and horrible, but at least it makes sense, because you're a business trying to get people to look at your thing, and you're just being like, hey, look at our thing. I'm more annoyed and saddened by the idea that Funny or Die has gone from making funny videos on the internet, like funny sketch comedy videos, to we're just going to pretend to do, we're going to be like the double rainbow guy. By the way, the double rainbow guy, for all I know, is just an invention of Levi's. But actually, this does have a history. Good jeans, though. Speaking of jeans, well, that's what I was going to say, is that Levi's did this in 2004 with the I Kiss You dude. What was that? Do you remember I Kiss You? No. No. Do a search for I Kiss You. I think that's what it is. I can't think of his name right now. John, somebody in the control booth must know this. Control. What's his name? He had a name. He was like this weird Eastern European dude who was writing in broken English. It's kind of like the thing that Borat is modeled after, but like a real guy. But he's not a real guy because it was like a Levi's campaign in 2004 on the internet. Nobody knows what I'm talking about. Anybody? People on Twitter, help me out here. Am I crazy? Did I just make this up? And it's almost preferable to where Levi's went, which was like super serious. What if you realized that everything that you believed was a lie? Yeah, I'm not seeing this any more. We got it right here. Oh. I kiss you. Can I get, can somebody tell me what's going on here? But seriously, how long until we have real hoverboards? Katie, our science expert. Let me ask you, Katie, you're a scientifically minded individual. How many years would you say away are the actual hoverboards? 30. That's a long time. That's the default response a scientist would give you when they have no effing idea. So 30 years. Ross says they have no idea what I'm talking about. This just goes to show how quickly the internet moves. Of course, that was 10 years ago. Five years is like, yes, it's happening. 10 years is like, we're kind of working on it. 20 years is like, it's a theory. And anything beyond 20 years is like, we have no idea. I think all the, I think all the. I just hated this whole story. I think all that matters is, I mean, the thing is you don't think it's going to happen. You say 30 years, and then somebody's going to come up with it. All that matters is that we now know. Well, maybe that's why everyone fell for this video, right? We now know Doc Brown will do it. That's the problem with hope. Here, is this the guy? Is this the dude? This is the I kiss you guy? Is this a trailer for Alias? It's a trailer for this dude. This is actually like a later in the game situation here. There he is. He had a website that was like a GeoCity site. Yeah, that's him, the dude in the jacket. That is the guy. And what is his vibe? His thing was like, it was like a viral, like, oh my god, this is hilarious. Look at this crazy website this guy made. He's like looking for a wife. He's like looking for a date on the internet. He doesn't understand how the internet works. This is before Tinder. It was like all this crazy, you know, it was like GeoCities, like animated, like all kinds of animated shit on the page. And you wanted to kiss the ladies? It was like, I kiss you, like I want to be, or whatever. But then it turned out that it was like some weird viral, like Levi's marketing for like jeans. Did he wear Levi's? Yeah, I assume. Why would you want that creep in your jeans? It gets people talking, you know? It gets a buzz happening about things. All right. Well, the one thing we've learned from this is that Doc Brown will take a check for literally any brand. Wasn't he doing? Here it is. Here's his page. Here's the page. This is the thing here. So this was like fake. This guy's like an actor or something. And it's just like he talks about, he's like, it's like a personal ad. I mean, that's kind of funny. This is proto-Bora. There he is. Oh, there he is in Levi's jeans, you see? Yeah, he likes sex. I like travel. I go three, four country every year. That's pretty funny. I mean, basically. Oh, he's a journalist. Basically, this is ripped off from, I mean, this is what Borat ripped off to be Borat. But whatever. Long and short is we've lived with these kinds of memes for a long, these fake memes for a long time. But now it just seems like they're all over the place. Nobody cares. Let's move on. Nobody cares about this topic. You guys are not with me. I can tell. It stinks. That's fine. You had a moment. I had a second. So one of our new writers, Ariel Duhem Ross, who is also Canadian and has a great name, very classy, like way too classy for The Verge name. And a great talent. Very wonderful talent. Not just a name, also a great writer. Did a piece today, which everybody should read. It basically is like, there are some people, have you ever met a person who's like, I don't like music. I just don't like, I don't listen to it. I don't like it. A study has now sort of proven out or found that there are people who just doesn't, their brains don't work that way. They just can't appreciate or enjoy music, which is crazy. They don't show a physical or emotional response to familiar songs. Are those people, is there a higher instance of serial killers in the people who don't like music? What's going to be interesting is that after this, they're planning to do brain scans on some of these people and try to figure out what is different about them. And I think if that sort of can perhaps match up with other fMRI studies on serial killers. I don't think there's any correlation. You never know. Seems like you go hand in hand though. But if you're looking at sort of the brain's reward system, I mean, who knows? I just think it's fascinating. There's a very, very weird, weird study. Anyhow, I think we came up with maybe one of our greatest headlines ever. I think, Katie, did you submit the bad brains part of it? This was me. It's just, you have to know who bad brains are to get it. But it's a really great. Just very interesting to me that somebody tweeted me, they're like, is this the new face blindness? I think there is something that, is there something similar about it? In the sense that you have a kind of a, you naturally assume that everybody feels the way you feel about basic things. Like, oh, you hear music. It creates an emotional response. Like, either it makes you happy or makes you sad, or I don't like the way this sounds, or I do like the way this sounds. It's hard to imagine, sort of like colorblind, is I guess for me when I think about it. I can't imagine not knowing what colors are. This one seems more severe, more deep. It seems more deep. Because it's like, music is basically producing some kind of emotional response. So it's like you're missing the ability to get a very common emotional response. I mean, I guess you'd save a lot of time. I feel like I spend a lot of time on music. Like making playlists. You'd also save a lot of time if you just didn't exist. By the way, somebody just tweeted. You are out. Can I just say something? We were making it. Death threats. What happened? You made a death threat? It's not a death threat. It's a philosophical. What was it? Can I hear it again? You'd save a lot of time if you just didn't exist. You wouldn't have to worry about laundry. You said that to Katie? Is that to Katie? No, no, no. You wanted to do laundry again. Things got dark here. You wouldn't have to have a job. Listen, I think what he meant, he was being pragmatic. He meant that living takes up a lot of time. Think about how much time you'd save if you weren't. Save a lot of time. Save infinite time. I wouldn't have time. But that's the beauty. I think that's the beauty. That's not, that's awful. No time is all the time in the world. Do you remember what it was like to be before you were born? This is like being. This is like what keeps me up at night. I can't talk about it. This is like being in a black hole. We could start doing Zen Koans if you want. Right, am I right? This is like if you're in a black hole. Imagine the faces of your parents before they were born. It's horrible. What? This all makes me really uncomfortable. I think about conversations about like before I was born or after I die. Why? Or then I think about like, well, even if I go to heaven at some point, heaven will stop existing. No, it won't. No. No, it will. Wait a second. First off, hold on. Because the universe will just implode in on itself. And then what am I? Heaven's not part of the universe. Not the known universe. Heaven's not like up in space. It's not like a planet. But you know, it's fine. It's not a planet we haven't visited yet. First off, heaven doesn't exist, number one. If I'm just like zipping around out there somewhere. Yeah, in a DC-8 in space. I don't want to be in limbo. So you think that after you. And even if I am in limbo at some point, everything will collapse inwards and we will all just be nothing. Do you believe that after you die. Not if you reunite with Xenu. Hold on a second. Well, Xenu's part of the universe. So consider that. The thing that I hate to think about is the space in between things out in space. That's creepy. Which is nothing. Like if you're one of those people that has tryptophobia or whatever it's called. I don't mind thinking about that. Where you're afraid of holes. That kind of hurts my brain a little bit. Get me in a rocket ship. Just hang out. You want to go to Mars One? Would you be comfortable with being in a rocket ship? Have you seen Gravity? I have. Yeah, I find that the concept now, especially having seen Gravity, but prior to Gravity, the idea of being in space, so utterly terrifying. I mean, I'm not gonna be. It's like, dude, have you seen Event Horizon? Oh my God. No, I'm done. You go to that. You end up in hell. If you go far enough into space, you go to hell. Sorry, spoiler alert. That's what Event Horizon is about. They fly into space and they end up on hell. No, they fold space, right? Whatever they do. Whatever they do, like devil, devil. And they don't have Buffy the Vampire Slayer on board. Have you ever played Dead Space? Because it's the plot of Dead Space. I got it for free because EA did such a bad job with Simpsons. Dead Space is a really, really good game and everybody should play it. But it reminds you of the horror of space, as does Gravity, as does what you were just saying about. This isn't on our agenda, but it really dovetails well with this other thing that just came out today, which is this Mars One documentary teaser. Oh yeah, hold on a minute. Hold that thought. I want to get back to Katie's. I saw that. I want to get back to Katie's depiction of heaven. So I'm very interested in several things. One, that you believe in heaven. No, I don't. I mean, that was just like a word. But I would like to think that I get to hang out somewhere after I die. Heaven is a bottle of Avalon, Napa Valley Cabernet. Yeah, you do, in the ground. You get to hang out, or unless you're cremated, in which case, not in the ground. Unless you're buried. This is horrible. But here's my other question. So you think that heaven could end? I mean, everything will end. No, heaven doesn't. The whole concept of heaven is that it defies the laws of space and time. Like, if you believe in heaven, you gotta go whole hog. You gotta be like. But I just said that I don't believe in heaven. No, okay, but then whatever kind of thing, you just believe in a cool planet where stuff is free or something. Or I'm just zipping around. I gotta say, my favorite depiction of heaven. You don't zip around in heaven. I don't think that's what goes on there. I'm not in heaven, because I don't believe in heaven, but zipping around somewhere. Yeah, but everyone has a space segue. But you don't die and then start zipping around into the universe. I do. That's like a Scientology thing, right? You wear white robes and the Backstreet Boys are there and they're always performing a live concert. That's the end of a movie. And you're eating cream cheese. Yeah. Is that a part of heaven? On the cloud? I don't know, it's white. Everything in heaven. That's a bagel commercial. Okay. You're like, I'm on a cloud having delicious Philadelphia cream cheese. That is an ad for, that's like a viral campaign for Philadelphia cream cheese. That's where I learned about religion. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention, the Virgin House today brought you my Philadelphia cream cheese. It's the lightest, creamiest cream cheese in America. It seems to be controversial, but heaven has nothing to do with Philadelphia. No. If anything, if anything, it's quite the opposite. Let's put it that way. Anyhow. So, music? Yeah, some people can't appreciate music. And as a result, they'll never get to heaven where they zip around eating cream cheese. Okay, moving on. I enjoyed that. I liked that. That's my favorite part. Those are my favorite conversations that anybody can have on the Verge cast. No, but we're talking about space. It was this Mars One video that came out today. It was a trailer for this documentary about all these Mars One. Mars One's a company that wants to send. People who are gonna take a one-way trip to Mars. But can I interject briefly here? I actually saw the entire documentary because we were gonna do. We were working on the story. We were working on the exact same thing. Yeah, my great minds, great minds think alike. And then we went to do an interview in DC, I think, and they were like, oh, you gotta check out this documentary we did. And we were like, what the hell? And we're like, guess we won't be doing the exact same story. Guess we won't be doing the exact same story. But really cool, cool documentary. Basically the idea is that everyone who wants to go to Mars is supremely depressed. Of course, they're like, get me off this planet. I don't care if I ever come back. There's one guy who's like, the only thing that would keep me here is if my son asked me not to go. But then he was like, well, even then, it's kinda cool. I don't know, if you've lived through the winter that we've lived through in New York, a one-way trip to Mars is starting to sound pretty good. I need some more Carmex. Do they have Carmex in space? No. If you take it with you. Do they have Carmex in heaven? In heaven, you just think about Carmex and it's applied to your lips. You don't need Carmex. Well, that would be the thing, wouldn't it? Is that your lips never get dry in heaven. Do they ever go off topic in heaven? That sounds like the title of a country song. Your lips never get dry in heaven. I do pity the listeners today. What is this note? You wanna talk about Shaq? Shaq Fu? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Game of Thrones rap album? Can someone explain this to me? This is ridiculous. Can someone explain it to me, please? So I mean, I don't watch Game of Thrones, but I did listen to the song that's on the album. We're gonna play a clip of it in a moment. Great, I thought it was terrible. Can someone explain the concept to me? Because I didn't actually, I saw the headline, I have not read the article yet. According to the Wall Street Journal, they want to appeal to African-American and Latino demographics by releasing a free rap album featuring popular artists. So not only is that horrible as a marketing, it's like pandering. Straight up on the record about it. Lame, sad, also, you know what? Make your show more diverse or something if you want to attract a larger audience, a more diverse audience. Is this it? This is Catch the Throne. Also, how lame, it's like Watch the Throne, but they just changed it. Here we go, let's listen. It won't be that much longer Before Khaleesi take the Iron Throne They call her the mother of dragons You under attack and they get this eye on home Targaryen, the rightful bloodline So don't you ever give up on him Oh, just stop it. Turn it off, turn it off. This is funny, okay, but here's the thing. Last week, you weren't here last week, but you were, we talked about the trend of in the 80s, people doing songs from movies, like rap songs where they rapped about what was going on in the movie, like in Ghostbusters II. Bobby Brown has a song and there's like, or he has a rap, the whole song is about the Ghostbusters basically. There's actually a couple of songs in that movie because I just watched it. This is much closer to like McDonald's. But they're like mentioning, they're like mentioning like the Targaryens in the rap. It is the worst, that's like, first off, that's like, oh yeah, I have this shitty beat, not even B-side, like C-side that I was never going to release. Like you'll pay me several hundred thousand dollars for it. This is like when McDonald's does raps about chicken nuggets. Those are more enjoyable. Yes, I'm more interested in a chicken nugget than I am about hearing a rap about Game of Thrones. It's just so off, so out of, so tone deaf. Yeah, it's really bad. It's out of control. Anyhow, I don't have anything else to say about it. The track was called Mother of Dragons. That's wack, is that Big Boy? I'm never gonna be invited back. I saw a Big Boy show at Brooklyn Bowl a few years ago and he was great. And I even touched his, I touched his leg. Wait, what? You touched Big Boy's leg? Because I was in the front row. I'm sorry, I'm confused. What's going on here? I haven't seen one episode. He was really good live. Trey has something to say. Trey Shallehorn, our new Verge video producer. Let's give him a round of applause. Let's get on the mic here. I'm actually African American as you can see. Wait, hold on, slow down. I'm confused, okay. And I've never seen Game of Thrones. I haven't either. I haven't seen one episode. Are you not watching because you feel like it lacks racial diversity? No. You're not watching because you're not interested. Because I'm not interested. Are you more interested now? Oh, here we go. However, after hearing that, I'm even less interested. Boom. And watching it. Boom. You're driving away. You're driving away an African American audience. No, I'm less interested in watching. Me too. This makes HBO seem a lot lamer. So you're not loving it. I'm offended. I'm not. Yeah, I was partially offended. I mean, it's. You should be fully offended. I'm offended. I can be a little bit offended, but you also did. Partially because I mean, the assumption is that all African Americans listen to hip hop. That's also offensive. It's not just that it's bad. It's not just that it's bad and like tone deaf and pandering and like it's just like this lame way to seem like you're more diverse than you are. But also the assumption that like every African American is like, oh yeah, I love hip hop also. Like that's my favorite music. They should have had Keith Urban do it. That's what you're a big country fan, right? Yeah. Are you a country fan? I'm not a country fan actually. Okay. I have no idea what he looks. That would be. Say the other genre. We just met. I don't even know his name. Trey. Yeah, Trey. You guys haven't met? I think we met yesterday. You were in the meeting the other day with the team. You were very cold. Yeah, you were cold. What is wrong with you? I'm starting to think, look, I don't want to call you up. I'm starting to think, do you see that you're racist? That's all I can imagine. I'm racist against new people that I don't know about. Anyhow, I'm going to thank you for actually like chiming on this because it's like, it's a perfect example of why HBO is blowing it on this. Like that's great. And also Trey, you're a wonderful man. And by the way, now I think the best dresser in the office in Chad is going to be Chad Mum. It's really nice to have like an Annie Hall moment too. You know, like when we need an expert on hand, we're like, oh, if only we had an African-American on hand. I thought you meant a well-dressed man. I feel like we're going down a racist path here, TC. Very upsetting. Anyhow, Trey, thank you. And as far as I know, TC is not a practicing racist. Not practicing. It's terrible. It's gone off the rails. In remission. Anyhow. This is a really weird tangent, but speaking of Game of Thrones, I did this DayZ story. You remember that game, DayZ? Yeah, it's a really sadistic game. But anyway, you can like kidnap people and handcuff them. Do all kinds of weird things to them. And a favorite tactic of- By the way, weird segue. That's the weirdest segue. But one of the best tactics for avoiding being captured and handcuffed is to just start telling Game of Thrones spoilers over the microphone. If you were run away from you. Yeah, it's like- That's great. You could do any spoilers. It's like mutually assured destruction. Like any nerd spoilers. Like you could be like, well, maybe I could handcuff this guy, but maybe he knows Game of Thrones spoilers. He can't make you stop talking. Exactly. They should figure out a way if you've got somebody in handcuffs that you can like- You can put duct tape over people's mouths, but it's not- But it won't turn off your audio. It's an alpha. It's not in the game yet. Eventually. That's insanely horrible. Anyway, moving on. Speaking of games, Shaq Fu. Ugh. Shaq Fu is a fighting game based around- It's all I'm offended by this, too. Based around Shaquille O'Neal. And Shaq is going to fund this. What's he doing, a Kickstarter? Yeah. What's the story? If you- Oh, he's doing an Indiegogo project for Shaq Fu 2. Somebody asked him, there was an article a few months ago, and it was like, what's up with- it was random. Can we just show the photo of Shaq in the motion capture? I think I actually met the journalist actually. I was talking to him at CES. He was like, yeah, I got this weird scoop out of nowhere. I ran into Shaq, and I was like, hey, what's up with Shaq Fu 2? And he was like, it's happening. And it turns out, thank you for topping me off. Is this a trailer for Shaq Fu 2? Yeah. I'd play this. No. What's the plot of Shaq Fu? Can anybody tell me? What's the- is that Shaq? Shaq's way more muscular in the game than he is in real life. I was just going to say, there's a picture in here of Shaq 2014, and his abs definitely do not look like that. They look like a gut. His abs look like a gut, basically. So here, I'm getting this. This is the story of Shaq Fu 1. I'm going to read it to you. In the game storyline, Shaquille O'Neal wanders into a kung fu dojo while heading to a heavily emphasized charity basketball game. Heavily emphasized? I think they mean advertised? Charity basketball game in Tokyo, Japan. After speaking- I assume this is from the Wikipedia entry. After speaking with a kung fu master, he stumbles into another dimension, where he must rescue a young boy named Mizzou from the evil mummy Sat Ra. Totally sound- that sounds completely reasonable to me. This is from the 90s. This game is from what, 19- I'm going to say 1994. This sounds a lot like the plot to Kazam. I'm going to say 1994. It's like a really, really bad Street Fighter knockoff, right? And this is like version 2.0. I mean, this looks identical to a Street Fighter. No, this is the original right here. Check this out. Oh. You know, when I was a kid- Hey, remember 4-3 ratio? I mean, this is like Ryu's level in Street Fighter. This is a complete rip off of Street Fighter. I'm like mad. I'm like legit mad about Shaq Fu ripping off Street Fighter. Do you want to feel even more mad? Yes. If you fund it for $500, I can't speak. If you contribute $500 to his campaign, he will follow you on Instagram. Yeah, Shaq. Shaq will follow you on Instagram for $500. I don't understand what the value of that is. Isn't that just- just makes me feel sick. We have- what's this? Oh, we have all of the- And a nice little- What are the- hold on, hold on. We have 10 stills. What are the Shaq rewards if you fund this? Can you tell me what they- what are they? Where's the list? Do we not have a list? I have a couple here. He'll record a- you can record your own voiceover for the game. I don't know what that means. Or he'll record a voiceover for you. How much do you have to invest? You can record a line in the game? Yeah. Like what? Like let's fight? Yeah, like ow. Mo cap, a signature move. How much do you have to pay to mo cap a signature move? Let me load this up. This is not going well. For $750, you get a personalized YouTube message. By the way, $21,000 have been raised so far out of- Who are these people? Out of the $450,000 goal. And can I just say, I get that he's demonstrating the popularity of it and the need for an audience, but- But he should have remade Kazam instead of making this video game. Here's the thing. Can we get the Kazam track? Can Shaq fund it himself? That's a question on the page. Fair question. Of course he's got money. I guess he'll be investing a lot of his own time and money in this project. He also wants your money. But he'd rather not spend half a million dollars on this crappy video game, to be perfectly honest. Exactly. That's money he could use for things that he enjoys and wants as opposed to this game. So here we go. Here are the levels. You ready? For $15, you get a copy of the game. Digital PC copy. $25 DLC for life. That's by the way, what I have tattooed across my chest. $35 limited edition character. What does that mean? I think that means you'll get like a character that is not available to everybody when they first get the game. Like a secret character. 45 bucks beta access to it. This is by the way, we're just doing a big ad for Shaq Fu too. $50 you'll get the game plus the digital soundtrack. $55 gets you a Shaq Fu t-shirt. There's like 80 levels of this. By the way- I kind of want a t-shirt to wear ironically. It's funny because I was gonna say, if you're into the Shaq Fu t-shirt, there's probably something really wrong with you. You're like, yes. You're like, yes. I mean, I would probably wear that. Everything up to this, I was not interested in, but the Shaq Fu t-shirt is. For $250, you can get sheet music. Spelled with a Q. Sheet music? Please don't jump ahead. M-U-S-I-Q. For $100, you get a Shaq Fu poster. Nope. For $150, you can record your own voiceover. You will get to record a special line and have your voiceover integrated into the game and receive a credit as a voice actor. By the way, this gets you into the Actors Guild into SAG. $200 Shaq Fu signed poster. You get the poster, but it's signed. A sheet music, that's misspelled. You're right. It's got a Q on the end. I don't know exactly what I got. So who knows what you actually get? Yeah. It's like, what's music with a Q on the end? I don't think that actually counts as a thing. For $300, you get, okay, I don't know what this means. Turn up the volume. Steve has graciously decided to offer an in-person or Skype lessons on the keys. So this is the composer of the soundtrack, Steve Mullitz. Or Mullitz, depending on who you talk to. For $375, you can mocap your signature move. One of our motion capture artists will create a custom animation based on a recorded signature move that you submit. What does that mean? You'll be in the background somewhere doing a signature move? Yeah. I can think of, I would spend $375 if I knew. You know 4chan's gonna troll me. If I knew the signature move I wanted to put in the game would go into the game. For $400, Shaq Fu launch party in New York. I guess that means you get to attend or you're helping to fund it, I'm not sure. You plan it and he shows up? We were going to party like it's 1999. It's like, I got bad news for you. 1999 came and went. I'd rather party like it's this year. Yeah, but the graphics are from 1999. Right. For another, for a different $400, you get a Shaq Fu launch party in LA. 475 signed Shaq basketball. $500 signed Shaq Fu figure. $500 Shaq follows you on Instagram. $500. $500. That's amazing. Score the score. This is insane. For $500, collaborate with Steve and Shaq on making music for the game. I play the recorder in elementary school. You're doing that at $500? That feels slightly desperate to me at $500. How many, so you get 100 people to invest for $500. How are you gonna use all 100 pieces of music or whatever? Okay, anyhow. I mean it doesn't sound like they're making any promises in there. I'm gonna just jump ahead. Let's just be honest, this game's never coming out. British people put this together weirdly because it personalized with an S. Voicemail by Shaq. What's the most expensive that you could fund? For $35,000. Mr. Word in there. For $35,000, an evening at TNT Studio. The slam-dug perk of all time. One fan, only one, gets to bring two friends to TNT Studios, which by the way, what is that? TNT, the TV station? No, that went out of existence didn't it? No, no, no, no, TNT exists. Exists? Yeah. You bring two friends to TNT Studios for a meet and greet to watch the taping of NBA on TNT and to have lunch with Shaq at the studio. If you have to pay $35,000 to hang out with Shaq, you can do something more interesting for 35. If you have the money to do that, you should do something more interesting with your money. Now I gotta say the best reward here, Shaq is basically using this like eBay. If you pay $3,000, you get two floor seats to a King's game. Which is basically just like Shaq has season tickets and he's like, yo, I don't need these, I'm not going to these games. You pay $25,000 dinner with Shaq. I would go to dinner with Shaq just to troll it. I would just be trolled. Be like, sorry, I paid $25,000, you gotta hang out with me. I gotta ask you some really annoying questions. Maybe The Verge could do a story on this and then we could just pull it out of our budget. No, I'm not gonna spend $25,000 just to do a story on Shaq. Can I have a t-shirt? I would be willing to get you a t-shirt if you can really produce some great content around the Shaq food to get video game. You hate video games, so. That's just like an impossible triangle. That's not fair. All right, well, you know what, sorry. This is what dinner with Shaq looks like by the way. Can we get the dinner with Shaq graphic up? Okay. So good. I'm putting it in the thing. Somehow I'm not surprised. It's at the top, John. By the way, if you have six friends with $3,600 each, then you can group together to get this awesome perk. So Shaq will have dinner with six people. Listen, guys, I'm willing to put in $3,600. Who's with me? Message me on Twitter. Six of us will go to dinner with Shaq and we'll all take our shirts off halfway through the meal and make him extremely uncomfortable. This is the worst topic we've ever discussed. Can I just say? Yeah, I hate this whole thing. All right, do we want to talk about Watch Dogs? No, I don't know. I'm so tired of this bullshit. I feel like Watch Dogs was a really cool thing before all these NSA leaks came out. Yeah, now it's all too real. Katie won't talk about video games. Let's talk about LSD being used as drug therapy for the first time in 40 years. Let's talk about that. So LSD is a hallucinogen. True. It can create a wide variety of responses in users. In fact, users of LSD report wildly different experiences. Now for instance, when I took acid back in the 70s, now I knew people who would take acid and they would get like wild visual, they'd be like wild visuals. They'd be like, oh my God, I'm seeing, you know, they would see the things that you associated with people seeing with acid, like a cat, the Cheshire cat is like doing some. Sounds wild. If I had ever done LSD, I could tell you I did not get any visuals. It was all in my head. Anyhow, but so Katie, can you explain this? I would love to. Finally, something you want to do on the Vergecast. Stop being so goddamn polite. No, no, you really have been. This entire time. To you, Katie, for, you know, why don't we just. Cheers. Cheers to you for just one of those right there. So classy. What's going on? Let's just get this over with. Come on, guys. Please don't, don't fight. I don't want, I want there to be peace between the two of you. I need peace on this Vergecast. So basically this was the first study in the world in 40 years using LSD, and they were looking at cancer patients, most of them terminally ill, to see whether an LSD trip under the supervision and guidance of a therapist could relieve some of the anxiety around the illness and sort of the idea of impending inevitable death. Wow, that's a downer. I thought they were gonna be like, oh, it turns out LSD can cure cancer. We've been ignoring it this whole time. I wish. Not nearly as cool as that. No, and so the results, it was a very small study. The results weren't great. Some of the patients experienced about a 20% improvement in anxiety levels based on evaluations and questionnaires, but the results weren't statistically significant. I think sort of the real win here is a win for the idea of using psychedelics like LSD in future research and in sort of medical protocols. I mean, I think that's- We sort of take in drugs like LSD and said, this is just bad. Just avoid it at all costs. Don't look at it, don't study it anymore, don't think about it. It's illegal. It's illegal, it's dangerous. Yeah, right, and we just kind of put it in a safe somewhere and we're like, leave it alone. And I think it's something that in the last five or six years has seen a real sea change or an evolution in sort of how it's perceived in the way the FDA and the DEA are handling studies like this with LSD or with MDMA, the active ingredient in ecstasy, even marijuana. So I think this is an interesting example. Doesn't sound like it does great stuff for anxiety, which I can understand. It's a little inconsistent. I feel like this would not be my go-to if I was trying to treat anxiety. I wouldn't be like, oh, you know what would be good is the unpredictable, sometimes terrifying LSD. Let's give that to people with anxiety. There used to be a lot of LSD testing though. Yes, definitely. Like we have a video here, John, of the British Army during World War II testing it on British troops. Really? Oh my God, can we see that? They found that they just became completely ineffective. Of course, of course, they were having too much fun. Can we see it? Absolutely, one guy climbed a tree, I think. I just wanna say don't do drugs, everyone, unless they're really good. Unless you want to. Unless you feel like it. Can we see the clip? Do we have the clip or no? No clip? I thought we had the clip. Great stuff, tight ship we got here. Really ruddy, just smooth, smooth, cool rudder. There we go, here it is. It's like Reaver Madness. Do we have sound? Is there sound on this clip? No sound, I guess we can just imagine these guys are like whoa, things seem weird. I mean, I don't know what they'd be saying. They have guns too. I wouldn't wanna. I don't feel good about this. I wouldn't be like, hey, take this acid and here's a rifle. Yeah, this guy just lost it. After 35 minutes, one of the radio operators had become incapable of using his set and the efficiency of the rocket launcher team was also very impaired. So dangerous. No. 10 minutes later, the attacking section had lost all sense of urgency. What are they thinking? They noticed the bunching and indecision as they enter a wood occupied by the enemy. Yeah, I'd be like, no, don't go in the woods. The second commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters and the prisoner's escort had to have the way pointed out to him, although it was in plain sight 700 yards away over an open country. Embarrassing. We all been there. 50 minutes after taking the drug, radio communication had become difficult, if not impossible, but the men are still capable of sustained physical effort. However, constructive action was still attempted by those retaining a sense of responsibility in spite of physical symptoms. But one hour and 10 minutes after taking the drug, with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds. Yeah. Wow. Wow. What I think is so wonderful is. We need to do more studies like that. Absolutely. What is so wonderful is how like in the old days they'd be like, let's just give them some acid, keep the guns on them, take the rocket launcher and just do your thing or whatever. Like nobody was worried that they would shoot somebody. It was just gentler time, a dumber time when people didn't know anything. That's great. That was hilarious. I think those guys look like they're having the time of their life. So actually there's a lot of like drugs, drugs as a thing are sort of back. They're back. And there's like, you know, our attitudes are definitely changing. Colorado of course, weed is legal in Colorado now. And there's the first ever commercial, TV commercial for weed, I think, Legal Weed that we ran a story on. Do we have a clip of that? It's actually pretty good. I'd love to see it. It's pretty good. It's an ad for weed, correct? Yeah. Can we see a clip of the, I'm sorry that I didn't tell you guys that I, they're getting it. If you've seen an ad on the internet, it's 100% legal bud. Yeah, and what do you do? Is it for Colorado? I haven't seen the idea. Is this it? Can we get audio? Yeah, well it's for medical marijuana. Can we get this? Can we start this over? I know that. Ain't nobody selling but me. I got tuna, I got salmon, I got sweet shrimp. I got the finest sashimi this area has seen in years. You need me and I need you. Let's make this work. You buy some sashimi, I'll throw in some rice paper, man. Totally free, gratis. I got everything. Even California rolls, baby. You wouldn't buy your sushi from this guy. So why would you buy your marijuana from him? MarijuanaDoctors.com is the only service that connects patients with real doctors for medical marijuana recommendations. Simple, confidential, safe. Visit MarijuanaDoctors.com or call 1-866-996-1999. No, that's, well first off, that guy was a little, okay, that's a great ad. I wanna say something. That guy was, I've never met a drug dealer that excited. Nobody's buying weed from a guy. Not that I've ever met a drug dealer, mind you. But if I had, I've certainly never met one that excited. And like, kinda nice, really. I don't know why he was throwing the edamame everywhere. He was just showing he had a lot of it. It was no big deal for him to. He's making it rain. He's like, listen, when it comes to edamame, I've got plenty of it. Which by the way, I think for sushi restaurants, very true, plenty of edamame. It's like bread. Fish is on endless. Yeah, endless edamame. Breadsticks with the alcohol. That's right. I think it's a great ad. It also, I think drives home a really important point. Like, who wants to buy drugs from a weird drug dealer when you could just, when the government gives it to you. It's just kinda so surreal to see something like that. And no, it's on national, well, not national television, but local television. Where is that for LA? Is that for California? Well, I think it's either for, actually, I don't know where it's airing. Is it medical? I know it was on CNN. Is it medical marijuana in Colorado, or is it just weed for people like Amsterdam? No, no, no, it's recreational. It's medical and recreational. Do you need a license? Do you? Not for recreational, no. Right, so how does that work in Colorado? Are there weed shops there now? Yeah, absolutely. And you just go, I'm in Denver. I just go to a weed shop. I gotta go to Denver. This is amazing. This is so weird. It's really weird. We've spent our entire lives being told that this stuff is the worst thing in the world, and you gotta stay away from it. And if you smoke one puff of weed, you're immediately gonna be a heroin addict. And like now it's like- Reefer Madness, John. Yeah, I've seen Reefer Madness. I've actually watched it. It's depressing, by the way. It is. You think Reefer Madness is gonna be like a funny movie, like, oh, these guys in the 50s, they made this hilarious, or 60s, they made this hilarious movie. I think it's from the 50s. Maybe actually from earlier, 40s. Anyhow, but it's actually a huge downer. And then you realize it's all about- 36, it's from 1936. It's actually really, really depressing. And it's about like, it's very sad people in very sad situations. Oh, here it is. Look at this. Wait, this is colorized. I'm gonna go in for this colorized BS. Hey, if I wanted to see things in color, I would watch network television in 2014. What is going on with my hair? It only has two stars on it, DB. This hair is so, what do they know? It's so messed up. Your hair is- It's getting really long. On drugs. Just do that first. Maybe it's time for a haircut. It is time for a haircut. What are you saying? Is it time for a haircut? I think we need to end so you can go get a haircut. You know what? I think it is time to wrap up, unfortunately. This was a weird one. Yeah. I think this is a long week. I'm very tired. Me too. And we drank an entire bottle of wine. We drank this wine. I didn't even realize, I haven't finished. I still have like quite a bit, but you refilled, so. I finished mine. I had a baby. I had a baby. I got this week, but it's tiring. But we know now officially that it is a baby. Let me tell you about my baby. Yeah. It's put on weight, which is very good. It? She has put on weight. I don't want to reveal too much. What's her name, Link? Hey, come on, man. How much did she weigh when she was born? Six pounds, nine ounces. Oh, a little one. She was early. That's like medium. No, it's close to right on. It's a midsize. Now she is eight pounds, 10 ounces. Great. Which, fun fact, is how much I weighed when I was born. I was a huge baby. Yeah. Huge. And I'm a huge adult, weirdly. I think my brother was like 11 or 12. Oh my God. And now he's like 105 pounds. Like he's this small. Yeah, and I was small, and now I'm, you know. Medium. The Michelin man. You're the Michelin. Don't listen. That's, the Michelin man actually looks like he's in better shape, frankly. Yeah. That's terrible. Wyatt, this is abuse. Is the baby polite or rude? The baby is wonderful. She's great. She only has one problem, which is, she doesn't, she's not perfect. Well, she's a baby. She doesn't sleep at night. Ugh. That's not that bad. I mean, it's horrible, but. I take sleep very seriously. No, no, I know you get like nine hours a night, which is so insane. Every night you get nine hours? Can you imagine? Eight to nine. Anyhow, but she's a joy and a wonder, and you know, I don't know. Are you gonna have another one? You know, that's a great question. It's very insane. It's an insane experience. It's horrible for the mother. For women, I really, it's sad. Like, it sucks. I wish there was another way to do it, because women have the, get the worst, they have the worst situation. They have to carry that baby around for nine months. Then they have to have it, which is insane. Any way you have it, it's crazy. And then they're responsible for kind of everything. Like, I can't feed the baby. I mean, I could if I wanted to give it steak, but you can't give it steak. Well, there's always science. You know, we had that story on cultured beef a while back. You know, maybe we're gonna have cultured babies. I think that's great. Actually, peanut. That is actually a thing. That's a thing that I'm interested in. Me too. We have, I think we'll have more on that. On The Verge, actually. Funny you should bring it up. Okay, I think that's, we should wrap up on that point. Anyhow, I don't know. I think I'd probably like to have, I don't, only kids are weird, right? Only kids are, are. Yeah, that's my. I feel like they're lonely. Like, they always want. I want one, and then my partner in creating a baby is like, no, then there'll be a weirdo. We need to have two. He's right. That sounds expensive and annoying. Here's a photo of my, here's a photo of my daughter. Single children are so entitled. Well, you do have more. You can give. Well, we have pennies, so it's already like, we have two babies. You know what parents love is when people compare a pet ownership to being a parent. No, here's the thing. Like their favorite thing. No, but here's the thing. And maybe I said this in the last one. I think that's totally reasonable. I think I learned a lot from having a dog. It's like not that wildly different. Your responsibility level is much higher. No, I'm sorry. I think it is. I learned a lot from having a dog, and I think it was less of a crazy, like, oh my God, this thing needs me to feed it and take care of it and make sure it's healthy and take it to the doctor. And like, you know, make sure it's loved and all this. Like, it's very similar. It's like a Fisher Price training baby. But it's like 10% of how the, 10% of the intensity. 10% is fair. It's 10%. I accept that. But the basic rules are the same. All right, this was the last Vergecast. I don't think so. Ever. Canceled. This is the beginning of the end. Or is it the end of the beginning? Winecast from now on. I like it. I like the wine. Next week we're gonna talk about cats. It's gonna be the Vergecats. I like the mellow nature of this, and I like that we touched on some topics that we don't normally touch on. Like heaven. Heaven. I would like to talk more about heaven. Me too. That's for damn sure. We should. All right, that's the Vergecast for this week. If you wanna get in touch with us, you can email us at vergecast at theverge.com. You can leave a comment when this story goes up, this post of this thing. Actually, there's a post that is already up you can leave a comment on, if I'm being honest with you. You can write something in our forums, start a conversation in our forums about the Vergecast. And you can also find us on Twitter. The Verge is at Verge. I'm Joshua Topolsky. TC is laughing stoic. I need to change that. It's horrible. I'm verified. I'll lose the blue check mark. It's like some weird emo. Yeah, I don't like that. And Katie Drummond is, whoa, wow. The wine really is taking effect here. The wine is really having this profound effect on Katie Drummond. Stop laughing, John. Normally mild mannered, I don't know if I've ever heard her use the F word. He threatened me. Physically? Guys, okay. I'm never drinking wine with her again. I like this dynamic. I'll be honest with you, it's a little uncomfortable, but I find it to be somewhat enjoyable. I'm gonna let her sit next to you next time. Katie or Katie Drum? With two M's. Two M's, sorry. Of course. I forgot. Yeah, you need to change that. It's really stupid Twitter now. You know, because there are two M's in your last name. Yeah. Which is Drummond. Yeah. Learn how to spell drum. You didn't want to have Drummond in the whole thing? It was taking. Too long? This is another Katie Drummond. She's a real bitch. Wow. And that is the Vergecast. As always, we thank you for watching and listening. And I think it goes without saying, my family, your family, and the families of everyone you know and love are in great danger. I can only hope they make it to the next Vergecast. And we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.