 Well then welcome to the WAN Show guys, the weekly show that tells you everything you need to know about technology in Three hours or more or less Three hours. We've done that. We almost we've done like two and a half So I couldn't even say two hours or less. It's usually two hours or less It's usually two hours or less, but today's show I think is gonna be a little bit on the shorter side But we've still got a lot of information to pack in there for you So number one is our special guest the one the only I Was making points, but there aren't two of them George Macris from Corsair will be joining us So for those of you who don't know who Corsair George is number one shame on you because True PC enthusiasts who appreciate the work that he's done over the years should know who he is He's the guy the guy behind the Corsair 800 D So that was Corsair's first enthusiast class computer gaming case And he's actually been the mastermind behind a lot of the other innovations that they've brought to the case market since then so We're really excited to talk to him and then what else we got for the show today quantum Minecraft from Google, which is just Awesome. Yes It's not a quantum pickaxe though. It could be a quantum unless I like look away and look back and then it's like a sword Yes, see How do you know that but it try it? That was not planned Okay, 290 X performance we're gonna talk about that. I think we're probably gonna have a Twitter blitz based around that Yeah, we got to talk to 90 X. Yep, and then infinity ward saying that Cod players are not hardcore gamers And maybe not even gamers at all that okay. See every time you say this I'm gonna have to start talking about it cuz that it's amazing I'm also Apple patent Apple's patent for capacitive touchscreens might actually go through which well It's been upheld for now. Yeah, which might be a Big problem isn't Nokia Microsoft or HTC so more on that in a moment like we could be looking at basically Any device that is a galaxy s4 or similar? Could be just not for sale at least Yeah, yeah could be a big problem so without further ado guys intro time I'm All right guys So we've got a couple sponsors for the show this week number one is Squarespace Squarespace is the easy way to create a professional looking website for yourself your business or Whatever else you might want to create a website for and hotspot shield you can get oh yeah Sorry for Squarespace you can get 10% off on new accounts through the month of October you going to Squarespace.com Linus and using the code Linus 10 and then hotspot shield powered by anchor free You can get 20% off elite prices with offer code Linus You can sign up at bit.ly slash HS share and hotspot shield is an easy to use VPN solution So that allows you to get around regional restrictions on services night like Netflix or get around things like blanket Censorship in countries where that kind of thing is a problem you want to access YouTube you're in China Hotspot shield could be the right solution for you If you can get hotspot shield in China, so it's an example I actually don't know if specifically hotspot shield works in China because there's all kinds of crazy video magic Well, it probably works. You probably just have to try and get it Which I think you'd have to figure it out we get some we get some viewership out of China somehow It's like usually like single digit views, so I have no idea how exactly it happens, but It's kind of funny to me. All right, so kicking things off welcome to the show Google and okay, you know what I'm gonna let you field this one quantum computing comes to Minecraft So there's a quote. I'm actually gonna read this directly I'm just gonna help Google's quantum AI team quoted saying where will the future of quantum computer scientists come from our best guess? Minecraft so in response to this they have released a A quantum module for Minecraft. It's not really actually quantum, but it's representing different parts of quantum ideas so quantum entanglement quantum superposition and Observer dependency as a video that we can watch which I would think we really should watch that shows them showing off Q craft Which is their little module for it, so if we jump into I? Don't think that's the right one way to go give me a second alright So you're gonna go ahead and do that so I'm gonna go find it so basically what that means is Minecraft is already Basically like a particle simulator so to speak so it's got it's got its own physical rules for the way that things behave Within the game so what this will do is it'll allow you to apply Quantum rules to the objects that already exist within Minecraft using this module so once you fire up the link We will be able to actually show something I've got stuff like there's there's but it's not the video that I actually want okay Well at any rate guys what we're gonna Do is we are going to link the video in the WAN show doc that Goes up on the Linus tech tips forum after the show so guys do definitely check it out But basically what it's designed to do is let players experiment with quantum behaviors Inside Minecraft world with new blocks that exhibit these these quantum properties that you wouldn't normally observe with something like a Pickaxe or a piece of stone or a piece of the kinds of objects that we can already find within the Minecraft world so it's I I Is Minecraft an educational tool now it kind of it's funny cuz I think it was only two weeks ago that Minecraft was causing By little to start killing people and stuff I can't find the video but essentially the kind of stuff that happens is like say he walks up to this stone wall And he's like okay. Well how the heck do I get through this he looks in a box There's a something you can light wood on fire with and he looks at the wall And he looks away and looks around for a bit looks back and now they're wooden blocks. He's like oh Light them on fire because they changed because he looked away and then looked back And there's a lot of this weird dependency stuff and one thing to be able to actually get through the puzzle He just kind of spun in circles because the whole room was just morphing around him as he spun in circles And then it like created a hole and then he jumped on the hole and then when he jumped on the hole and looked up The roof was completely different than what he came through and like everything's just changing as you go through the level without you Actually interacting with it at all and that's a huge part about it And then there's gonna be the blocks in the game so that you can create these things So it's not just Google making these courses for people you can create your own and that's the perfect community to give it to Absolutely, I mean I think that there's enough guys there that are gonna go hardcore geeking out over something like this and build What are gonna be effectively educational tools about a concept that most people have very little grasp on whatsoever And now we could be looking at 11 year olds 12 year olds picking up Minecraft and getting a better understanding of quantum mechanics than their parents have Just ridiculous So it's pretty awesome and like Let's make quantum mechanics sorry quantum physics It's okay The different things that I'm really excited for is the people messing with it like we just talked about because we've seen people in Minecraft make computers And like make calculators using blocks which is insane So if you take those same people and give them blocks with quantum properties I'm actually pretty stoked to see what I might have to launch up Minecraft again Yeah, no this is really cool So topic number two this is an article from IGN this is this is I don't know if this is hilarious or pathetic But in Brazil the PlayStation 4 will cost over 1800 dollars So to be clear we're not talking like Brazilian you know rupees or whatever they use there It's not rupees I know it isn't rupees But the point is that we're talking over 1800 equivalent US dollars So never even mind the difference in earning potential there never even mind all those other factors You as an American going down there with US dollars and walking into a store to buy a PlayStation 4 you would be expected to fork over 1800 dollars In comparison the so that translated to the actual local currency is about three thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars The Xbox one is going to come in at two thousand one hundred and ninety nine dollars which is a difference of 1800 This isn't American dollars right now that we're dealing with But if you think if you look at that scale the one cost four thousand the other one cost twenty one ninety nine That's a difference of almost the cost of the Xbox So you could buy you could literally buy two Xboxes Almost pretty close like that's insane So it's being blamed on import tariffs and duties and taxes and all those kinds of fees that are normally actually I mean Brazil is pretty brutal for this They do have very very like massive duties on anything that's being imported and it's being blamed on that But I mean you look at what the launch price was for PS3 I don't think that their tax laws have changed that dramatically What was the PS3 launch? PS3 launch price PS3 was launched there late it was launched in 2010 I believe and I think the actual North American launch was 2006 So you have to factor in like I know the North American launch was really expensive too but yeah so the PS3 launch in 2010 was one thousand nine hundred ninety nine local dollars or nine hundred and twenty four sixty nine American Okay so now we're looking at well okay it's you know twice as fast therefore twice as I don't know what the logic here is So you look at that and then you also look at what Microsoft is launching the Xbox one at So just over a thousand US dollars and you got to wonder given that Xbox one comes with a Kinect and Sony has spent a fair bit of time poking at them about how they're more expensive What was the justification for this being so expensive in Brazil? It's kind of obscene and I'm sure if I lived in Brazil I'd be kind of pissed because that's just ridiculous like there's no way I could afford that That's insane It's one of those things where I really feel like Brazil does this to themselves in a big way like I mean okay So back to back to my whole working at a computer retailer okay this this is a thing North American retailers and I'm not going to name any names but I know who does it North American retailers buying literally like shipping containers of CPUs and then dropping them off at a port having someone come get them and give them money and then get them somehow into Brazil And that's it so much of the computer hardware that gets sold in Brazil is gray market with people from people just smuggling in like because the import prices are so high because they're so high And then the the retailers and other territories love it because as far as Intel ever knows like on paper that product is being sold within the market that they think it's being sold at And that retailer is moving tremendous volume good job here's a volume incentive so they can just sell the processors at cost and collect volume incentives That's how the whole gray market thing works guys so sometimes the way gray market works is there will be an actual lower cost in a given territory So for example those online game key sales sites that are popping up all over the place where they're buying like Estonian game keys and then reselling them outside of that territory not technically illegal But definitely not what I would consider to be a sustainable business model I can't imagine that EA and Valve and whoever else are going to let this go on forever So that is one way of gray marketing and then the other way is manipulating and basically smuggling to get around import taxes I know it can be a bit of an issue with Russia as well I was talking to one major manufacturer a couple of months ago that was basically said yeah we can't ship anything into Russia We can't even get reviews done there it's just not a thing Wow that's weird So it really depends on the product category depends on the manufacturer what kind of you know deals they have in order to get product into countries But it's not as simple I mean this is one of the reasons why I think other other countries around the world look at places like the US and go everything's so cheap there and everything's available there And part of it is that they do make it easier in a lot of ways anyone can just sell something bring stuff in as long as it doesn't require FDA approval or you know some kind of a UL certification for things like electronics or FCC certification The processes are pretty well documented and it's you know pretty much under control and it's not that hard to get stuff in there One of the guys talked to another hardware manufacturer about the Brazil thing and they said basically the only solution for them was to build manufacturing facilities in Brazil and then they were able to completely crush the competition Because they didn't have to do it was actually cheaper to just build manufacturing there which is maybe Brazil's agenda but if they expect someone like Sony to just build like a PlayStation 4 manufacturing plant in Brazil I mean come on Not everyone's gonna do that Brazil so expect people to try and circumvent your whole your whole deal there All right so why don't we why don't we take a Twitter blitz guys let's just do a general Q&A Twitter blitz hit us up let us know if you have any questions we're gonna go through those and then we've got one more topic and then around 5 o'clock our time we're gonna be joined by George from Corsair So you want to launch into our next topic here just before we launch the next topic for the Twitter blitz if you're from Brazil what other kind of stuff do you see this on I know I took like a short ghetto vacation in Mexico and I was talking to one of the guys I met there just about different electronics That's not really very nice is it a ghetto vacation because it was in Mexico no it was a ghetto vacation because I spent no money on it okay lived like I was poor the whole time okay but it was fun I just yeah I didn't like eat very well Wow we don't see things like that on this show no no no I'm gonna get a vacation because it was super cheap and I didn't get that many frills with it um but yeah I was talking to a guy down there about different electronics over there and he's talking about how like he had a nice phone like none of his friends had a nice phone because he's like I'm the phone enthusiasts in the group meaning I own a nice phone I was like wow that's different everyone I know has a super nice phone at home yep like everybody it's just cheaper yeah and I don't remember what it was but I asked him how much it was and then I'd like converted it and it's been insane and for all the whining and complaining that folks do about carrier contracts and subsidies I mean do you have any idea how much of a difference that's made for you over the years in terms of the upfront cost of your hardware can I have that drink yep I didn't see it at first it kind of blended in NCIX gave me ten bucks to drink from this water bottle on the show I don't believe you or did they as a joke no they didn't know that would have been pretty funny actually no that didn't that didn't happen I just happened to own an NCIX water bottle because I worked there for years yeah exactly yeah anyways the new topic was the Apple event and new tech quickie format yeah you can we'll talk about the Apple event first the tech quickie format isn't really news so Apple had about an 80 minute event earlier this week where they actually talked about some pretty cool stuff so the new iPad Air, Air, iPad Air, thinner than before lighter than before lighter than before I wonder when they're gonna run out of reusable names the same phone hardware in a much larger form factor as before iPad Air, Pod, Air, Pod that'd be great I I I I I I Poid iPad Air, Pad, iPad Air, Pad anyway so the iPad Air is out it's only a pound so it's significantly lighter than the previous generation model it's still Retina it uses the same A7 chip that we found in the latest iPhone 5 S so they have by the look of things done away with having a higher tier of hardware an iPad versus iPhone I guess there's just no point anymore and other than that I don't think there was really much to say about that there's new cases available in a variety of colors and now rather than only magical cases that go just on the front there are now magical cases that wrap all the way around your thin and light iPad to make it exactly the same weight and size as your previous generation iPad I don't know that it's actually exactly the same weight and size and if you're anything like me you probably already had a case on your last generation iPad so it's still a savings but I just kind of get a kick out of that unless you drop your keys on it alright the next big thing is the MacBook Pro with Retina gets a Haswell upgrade so for those of you who have been sleeping under a rock for the last however many months Haswell is basically better performance better battery life and lower power consumption which ties pretty nicely into better battery life laptops dramatically improved onboard graphics so the new Pro is available in the 15 inch model with Iris Pro and Crystal Well so Crystal Well for those of you who aren't familiar with it this one I'm not going to say you were living under a rock because this is not that bad to not know this but Crystal Well is basically 128 megs of extra cash that can be used not only by the CPU component but also the GPU component which is fascinating because it's a straight rather than it's a straight overflow pretty much so anything that just falls out of level 3 goes straight into this 128 meg cache it's a massive cache and it sits somewhere in speed between level 3 cache and RAM and because it's simply an overflow and obviously anything that overflows from level 3 is something that you were recently using it is very efficiently used and then the fact that it can be leveraged for the GPU as well for the integrated GPU is game changing it is no secret that no matter who you ask whether it's Intel or AMD they're going to say the future is CPUs and GPUs working together on every task that you perform OpenCL is a thing and the new Mavericks version of OS X has full support for OpenCL and they're claiming up to 1.8x performance in supported tasks and given the way that Apple ties the software and the hardware together so well I would expect to see OpenCL actually make a difference on that platform before we see it making much of a difference on other platforms. Well it makes sense because they don't have much hardware and much software to sync which helps a lot it's part of the reason why it's so hard for all other platforms because there's so many basically infinite different combinations of hardware you can have it installed on. One thing about Mavericks too and a bunch of their all their other software notifications that I heard about during the show. Yeah I work Mavericks was there anything else? I can't remember. I work Mavericks and possibly other things anything software. Lots of software that neither of us have ever used before. I have. Have you? It sucks. But it might not have actually been bad it just sucked because I don't know how to use it. It's better now. That's good and it's free and today. Yeah so if you buy any Mac hardware you now get I work for free and if you own any Mac OS going back like the last five years you get an upgrade to Mavericks for free so software is now officially free if you're willing to pay the Apple tax for your hardware which as I've noted on this show before at launch usually isn't that bad and the new MacBook Pros are cheaper by about $200 for base configs versus the outgoing models so none of these are necessarily terrible things imagine that. Yeah. Oh yeah the other thing is Apple's showing their commitment to you know greener everything so they had lists of all the different reduction of hazardous substances and all that the new Mac Pro they talked a little bit more about it it's going to be assembled in the US which is you know it's only one product and it's not going to make us forget about the explosions in the factories of iPad polishing workers with all the aluminum dust and people dying you know we haven't forgotten about that but at least they're moving towards it you can't criticize a step in the right direction no and if they're going to start with this maybe they'll get some more factories more plants more supervisors blah blah blah blah blah over time and I mean honestly we as consumers have to prove that we're willing to that we're willing to pay more for something that is you know assembled at least assembled in our home country or not our home country but someone's home country we have to prove that we're willing to pay more for it for companies to be willing to invest in moving production back on to their home turf and I don't blame them for that they have to sell product if they don't sell product they won't exist and then someone else will outsource to overseas and it doesn't fix it. Yeah that's the first thing so many companies do increase profit margins overseas let's get it out of the states because it costs so much to actually manufacture I ended up just punching that thing yeah but just punch all the things we're angry increase profits punch things yes alright so here we go guys it's Twitter Blitz time so Jacob says you should get a Lego Mindstorm EV3 Lego Mindstorms are actually really cool yeah I just don't know that that's necessarily our video sort of approach they are really cool though eventually Apple will have to call the next iPod Touch the iPod Touch kids will be hilarious when it happens oh god that's terrible then that's terrible what is that keyboard you guys have with the red translucent keys I know where you can buy it you can buy it on banggood.com which isn't as bad as it sounds but they do have like sex toys and stuff what's it called again I don't remember it's got a crazy name and most of it's not in English what do you think of a carbon fiber wrap 900d as long as the carbon fiber wrap doesn't weigh much more then it's probably fine man that's a heavy case we'll have to we'll have to rag on George a little bit about that when he gets on mantle versus G sink oh trust me we'll be talking about this later there's a segment coming which do you think is a better advancement in technology okay I gotta I gotta save that yeah apparently it's Nokia not Nokia okay I Nikon Nikon Nikon I don't know in English it's Nokia so if I were to read it phonetically but I'm sorry if I've broken the rules Nokia can people go can people in Brazil go to Colombia or Mexico and get a ps4 for $400 now I think a lot of South American country had similar problems I don't know if specifically if Colombia does or Mexico I'm pretty sure it's more expensive if it's the same as like laptops and stuff it'll be more expensive in Mexico alright how do you think the 780 ti no idea 780 ti is not out yet even if we knew we couldn't talk about it what to upgrade my gtx 680 you know what we have another we have a great discussion topic on that as well the slowing of the pace of technology advancements particularly as it pertains to graphics cards so there's not a whole lot to upgrade a gtx 680 to right now will Nvidia graphics card support mantle in the future no also will G sync be worth getting against maybe an AMD mantle card more discussion on that later everyone just wants to talk about mantle and G sync trust me we will talk about it for a while tuning in from the North Pole very nice that's pretty cool I'm not clicking a bitly link in Twitter though matrix edition of a cease to use are designed mainly for overclocking right what extras does it deliver um well mostly overclocking yeah yeah better cooling better cooling sometimes better power delivery we've seen that a little bit on a cease to use I believe apparently it's lagging a little bit on and off yeah we're aware not really sure not really sure what's going on a lower bit rate of the stream yeah we could we could try that so I'm pretty sure I moved it back up to 2500 hello from Greece house rocket he's good he's putting on weight already and what do you think can be improved on a second version of the pebble you know do they have color e-ink screens no I don't think so I haven't heard I don't know but I haven't heard of any guys guys tweet us or let me know in the twitch chat if if they have colored e-ink I watch twitch chat you keep going I don't think so but I just banned someone on accident I'm gonna do penance 81 I put my hand down on my touchpad and timed you out for 10 minutes I'm sorry I don't know how to undo that if any of the mods know how that'd be great Owen asks thoughts on which pair of skull candies you may want to review I'm gonna pick up the aviators at some point here because apparently they actually don't suck I've heard yeah okay so I'm gonna pick up those and then for lols I'm gonna grab like some of their like $80 earbuds let us be like this and then I'm just gonna be like yeah they're terrible because I think we all knew that was but the aviators I I've heard they're great I've heard they are great but I heard there's just as good in way cheaper price packets well I don't know if that's actually a thing or not I've just heard that okay but you do pay a premium for real brand names so yeah I mean I'm okay with that I buy when's the last time you bought headphones did you buy no name or did you buy bare dynamic well I bought bare dynamic there you go but these are like yeah okay do you think we will eventually see an AMD or Nvidia flavorous team OS since the source will be available to anyone no because they'll just use steam OS yeah with AMD or Nvidia drivers in fact I think Nvidia is going a completely different route and they're chasing the Android so more on that but their new their new console mode for shield looks outstanding I basically don't need a home theater PC anymore and I've had one for years I'm a huge home theater PC guy I will be replacing it with an Nvidia shield all right what is the keyboard you guys have with the red translucent oh that's a good tweet do you want to bring bring George in because I think we're pretty much ready to go where does my team speak keep going very exciting all right 7990 versus 780 same price but slightly older tech 7990 raw performance is going to be pretty darn good but until AMD completely fixes their frame timings issues I would I would probably lean towards the 780 with that said if you check out the latest article on PC where he's got Ryan's got 290 X's running in crossfire they are making some pretty major strides on the driver development side getting that issue taken care of so are we live with the one the only George hey guys what's up hey George how are you doing good doing good my volume isn't doing so good so give me just a second here I'm gonna try and turn you that is a handsome picture that is a very handsome picture we're did we get this picture I didn't get it okay well apparently one of my one of my guys picked out this picture of you and you can share your appreciation with him if you'd like I'll pass it along so so tell us about yourself where you from what kind of cases have you gotten your fingers into all that kind of stuff okay I started of course there about 10 years ago nine and a half years ago doing like memory test crap and then just got really opinionated in meetings and basically they said okay well let's see if George actually knows what he's talking about and occasionally I did so as long as my success rate is better than my feel rate they keep listening so yeah I started I started actually got the job because I saw a post on a like a hardware review site that said course I was looking for memory test guys and they happen to be local so I just send the email saying hey I'm interested in I got the job so you know you can just kind of move from being a fan of hardware stuff into making hardware if you actually pay attention you know what that is a fantastic story and that's that's one of the things that I think is really inspiring for our viewers to hear because a lot of them will reach out to me and ask me things like you know hey Linus how I'm trying to I'm trying to that's interesting where is it I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing you here and I think that I'm missing the connector from my earphones okay all right so I mean I think that's really it might be because you're using like razor headset yeah I don't know what the I don't know what the impedance of these is but maybe it's a touch higher than I was expecting no I don't think that's the issue I think it might be to do with our splitter here but for some reason the the end connector of my steel series earbuds which are also not Corsair although you guys don't make earbuds for what that's worth all right anyway I think that's inspiring I think that's really cool and I know we don't love hearing stories like that what were some of the challenges that you faced going from being a peon to being well the key guy when it comes to designing Corsair cases actually so when I my first thing I started with was power supplies because first and they just expanded into like USB drives and then someone sent an email said do you think first one is actually our president Andy email saying do you guys think you could do power supplies and I was relatively new and I was like yeah we should do power supplies and here's what we should do and here's what the the you know connector should be and all that stuff and and I spec'd it all out and then I got another email saying okay you work with this guy and start building it and then that became really successful so now we're like the number one guy in power supplies so they said okay well when we do new products that are like that like cases or power supplies or coolers you should be the guy involved so the challenge is really is just like actually trying to learn the logistics and manufacturing side stuff which is actually kind of difficult yeah it's I think that people don't have nearly enough appreciation for I remember you know what this reminds me I saw I saw I think it was back on extreme system some guy designed an ultimate case it was kind of based on a TJ07-ish like design and it had all this radiator space and it had all this stuff about it and I looked at the thing and I kind of went dude that's unmanufacturable and he went you know what you're not supporting my dream you're this you're that and I'm kind of sitting there going you don't understand the challenges at play here you know what why don't you why don't you now that it's been a long time now that it's been a while tell us about the biggest problem you had bringing 800d to market okay so the first case 800d was kind of funny because we didn't really know anything about always done memory and USB drives which you can put in like a little clam shell or a box and you put it in another bigger box and you put it on an airplane and fly it across the planet the challenge with the 800d was never built anything so complex technically because it had so many different types actually getting like 800d's from the factory in China to other people that wanted to buy them became a huge nightmare like it turns out you can't put those on an airplane and fly them around that's a really bad idea so it costs way too much to do that so you ended up trying to do container optimization and stuff like that for boats which is actually it's boring for you guys but you know these are what guys who like sell mattresses and refrigerators have to figure out how to ship giant things across the country right across the world yeah exactly it's actually really challenging to figure that out so when we like when one of the things we learned for example if you look at the 650d and the 600t they were the second and third cases we designed and they had the same internals but they're very different external dimensions like the outside of the system is a lot bigger than the 650d so it actually cost 650d which is again to the end user you guys don't care you just pick it up and put it in your car and drive home or whatever or have it delivered by you know ncax or new egg or whoever but you know for us that's like okay well can we fit 500 or 700 in a container that's the type of question we have to answer right and so again that's the most interesting thing the feature set stuff no it's challenging to be so that's I mean that's a really boring answer but the the other side of it is that for the specs we can just ask you guys what to build and you guys tell us so that's really easy because we can just say hey should we put you know four hard drive bays or six and then you know the answer is we can put whatever you guys tell us right so speaking of putting out putting a case in your car and driving home with it 900d that barely fits in my car did you go did you go through this whole challenge again with 900d of convincing people at corsair that you needed to build this case and has it been successful in your eyes yeah we totally did we had to convince our our president andy that we needed a successor to 800d which was you know this giant case and we had to argue that hey guys look online these guys want more radiator space they want bigger motherboards all these things and so you know we said okay it's been three years let's do it and it took a long time because it's actually not an inexpensive chassis to make either like tooling it up cost a lot of money so and when we can sit there and say and then he goes well how many can you sell a month and then you have to answer that so the business side of it is the the interesting part but the 900d making it even bigger you know when we saw the 800d was so big when we launched it people were like laughing and how big it was now 900d makes 800d look like a mid tower so it's it's still kind of overkill but we've seen a lot of traction from it a lot of guys are buying it because they really wanted that that water cooling room now i don't know if you saw it did you see our overkill water cooling build guide where we stuffed five radiators into the 900d five thick radiators i think i think i did see that actually we uh we had to do we things that uh we had to fight with it a little bit which is uh which was kind of funny to me because i i'd stupidly looked at the side of the box and i saw all the different radiator support things and it didn't occur to me that you couldn't necessarily fit all of those in all at the same time in the default configuration so we ended up taking one of the radiators and actually mounting it to the motherboard tray so was that something you expected people to do or or yeah no i didn't quite expect that to be achieved in that way i see how you guys did that uh i'm like looking at the youtube video on the other window that's uh that's pretty clever actually but man those are some really ugly fans but i know man but they're really good i mean i don't i don't expect you to acknowledge that that's fine that's fine i understand that but they're extremely quiet and the performance is outstanding and i know you guys know that so you control me all you want but i know you know that they're good all right so i guess the last thing here is for those pretty good for those of you in the audience who don't know what corsair is all about george what makes corsair different from other companies i lost i lost you guys audio there for some reason okay i said george what makes what makes corsair different from other companies um i would have to say that internally we have a group of engineers that kind of run everything so like the the directors and and executives are all trained engineers which makes it very different from oh hold on a second george again for some reason uh you know what hold on a second are you on wi-fi no i'm not not you george um i think that's the problem so uh give us give us one second here how can join the other one yeah okay we'll be we'll be back with george in just a moment so in the meantime those of you watching i would love for you to tweet us so tweet at linus tech and let us know any questions that you have for george once we've gotten through a couple more topics we are going to go ahead and uh i'm working on it you're working on okay we're going to go ahead and have george answer some of those questions for you in a twitter blitz type format so we should be back with them here in just a couple of moments we are connecting to our cisco hotspot which should be able to connect but for whatever reason is unable to connect you have okay we are going to go ahead and we're going to go through my phone because apparently we're going to be able to connect to the phone apparently that's a that's a better solution than trying to use wi-fi for some reason all right so that should show up in just a moment here all right oh man we could jump and see if there's any new twitter questions yeah we can jump in see if there's any new twitter questions for the moment so let's go ahead and uh head over there here we go all right hopefully you guys are starting to hit us with some of the uh some of the questions for george here all right there we go all right we're back all right george is back okay we should be uh we should be stable now on the audio side so tell us again what makes corsair different from other companies um i think the main deal is that we're by engineers for the most part uh our company has a bunch of engineers at the management level director level and all those guys so if something has to be done it has to be done like in a way that we make sure it actually has a performance difference instead of just kind of marketing a performance difference right was that the whole thing is that it in a nutshell that's that's the biggest difference i mean if you go by engineers they have engineering groups but the you know go to the director and he's like a marketing guy or an advertising guy or something like that right okay it's actually a really good point because a lot of companies don't there seems to be that obvious disconnect they don't really get it yeah well you see products released and you kind of go did anyone actually build an enthusiast grade computer in this case yeah and with corsair i think they they usually prove that they did because the marketing materials usually contain a finished high-end build actually built in the thing it's like look no we actually did validate this yeah there's a couple of our competitors that that have enthusiasts on board too like you know we have a bunch of enthusiasts in in-house and you know myself i build my own systems and do that stuff and then some other guys here too but a lot of our competitors uh they don't really have that so you can see for example i'll give uh like rob at nzxt and those guys those are enthusiasts those guys know the the enthusiast level stuff i don't know what the management's like or anything like that but they definitely have enthusiasts on board but if you look at some of our other competitors when you see you know the kind of decisions they make and where they put like screw holes and where they put a a really bad door on a case or something like that you just know this person's never actually going to use that and so they never really thought about what the usage would look like right so i want to launch into one of our non-corsair topics here um i we shared the doc with you hopefully you had a chance to look at this but there is a fantastic editorial piece on pc perspective so i'm just going to go ahead and show this to the viewers next gen graphics and process migration 20 nanometers and below and beyond so george what was your first performance grade graphics card i bought so my first my first pc that i ever bought had a s3 verge 2 megabyte card in it which was terrible this is like 1990 5 or 1996 but the first performance grade card i bought was probably a voodoo 3dfx voodoo card that had a four megs and it was like a it had a card that you had to you had to use a td card and then that was the 3d card and so that was my first performance 3d card and i it was playing like the original tomb raider and gl quake and mech warrior 2 and stuff on that awesome okay so you are exactly the kind of person that this article is geared towards it's a fantastic article and basically what it does is it goes through the history of what we've seen so they've got some pretty iconic cards that they're showing off here in the written section of the article and it's it basically talks about the the way that process node migrations have gone for the last well really for the last almost 20 years to the point where graphics performance has been outstripping the the traditional moore's law because not only are they able to pack in more transistors they've been making much more efficient use of them as times gone by and what's happening right now and i think what enthusiasts are getting upset about is it's just not that easy anymore to keep driving graphics performance up so what's i mean okay so you saw that both nvidia and amd's most recent launches were rebrands effectively what's what's what's your take on that is has it just gotten too difficult to keep pushing performance forward at the rate that people have honestly been spoiled by have you felt spoiled i think that honestly what's what's happened is is that they can push performance a little bit but the software is not able to keep up with the hardware so i think you'll see a couple of things over the next little bit i think you're going to see as 4k becomes much more popular some of these guys are talking about 4k monitors and stuff in the new in the near future more uh 4k stuff that pushes video cards to their limits and that's going to make video cards a really big deal right now at 1080p i mean that's the kind of standard your tv runs on and you know cell phones are running on that now so i think you see a lot more people are running that easily but 4k is going to be a real big stressor but i do i do think that it's going to be interesting to see if they can keep that pace up i don't think it's really at some point you can't make that that uh you know process of uh shrinkage any any better 20 nanometers 16 14 12 whatever you're not going to get that much better so tell me tell me this do you feel like not only on the cpu gpu side um people have been a little bit spoiled similarly in other categories i mean when you're working on a new case i mean what are what's the what are the overall goals okay you have to build it cheaper you have to sell more it has to have more features and we want to see some amazing innovations and it has to look great yeah i think that so when we launched the 800d you know we put some rubber grommet cable routing holes in it and you know hot swap hard drives and push button side panel release and suddenly everyone was like oh my god you know what have you guys done and the world changed but now like you go by a 40 dollar case and it has like rubber grommet cable routing holes and stuff like that so you're right the the standardized stuff has changed quite a bit um people have kind of been spoiled you're just used that your hard drive won't require you to screw anything in and all that stuff is new i mean it's relatively new so i mean now you have to come up with something like the air 540 where it's like hey we you know change the form factor a little bit and and formatted it specifically for this purpose and people are responding well to that they're saying okay you know how many cases can you launch where the hard drive cage is in the same place and the optical drive cage is in the same place and the motherboard is the same size and okay so this one has seven slots instead of six but i don't really care you know so i think you do you're right you do have to come up with something new and innovative and it's getting more and more challenging but luckily with mechanical stuff you can do that much easier than you can with like actually shrinking the the you know manufacturing process of a gpu die so metal costs how do you guys deal with the fact that metal inherently costs more over time and unlike you know the traditional pc component expectation where pricing should just always be in freefall whether it's hard drives or cpus where again it's this it's the spoiled mentality of the pc customer how do you guys deal with that well it's actually so that's not really i haven't seen that too much i think what you see is that when people want to buy a new product they decide what their budget is or you know what features they really want and then they go out and look for it so for a graphics card guys you see a lot of people that say hey you know two three hundred bucks that's what i'm going to spend on a graphics card i'm just not going to spend that much more and anything less than that i'm not going to be satisfied with and whether they spend two three hundred bucks this year or in two years that's kind of their budget i think cases you get kind of that same thing a guy wants to spend x amount of dollars on a case and he goes out and looks around and says this is the one i like best for that price point and you can maybe talk him up or he can be talked down depending on the feature set but i don't think they really care too much that the case cost you know 159 dollars last year still costs 159 dollars because it's not like the metal got cheaper so why do you how why have you guys not done an itx case yet um wait there's itx now no i'm just kidding um yeah there's there's uh there's stuff in the road map there's stuff being worked on okay so you're not going to tell us any more than that i thought we were friends i'll tell you what you can come to ces and we can shoot another video like you did with 900d and we'll talk about it then all right hey that's uh that that now see now i feel like we're we're getting we're getting friendly here we're having some fun all right because i mean corsair is synonymous with performance pcs and i think that performance pcs have really come to itx in a way that they hadn't up until the last year or so and so i'm uh i'm excited to speculate that there will potentially be some alleged thing to talk about at cps this year alleged yeah like uh the the answer really is is that mini itx like you said uh had been kind of boring for the past few years um intel intel kind of put everything on the cpu die itself so that your memory controller is gone and you're like southbridge is almost gone completely like usb and all that sata stuff rather it's going to be all cpu integrated so now motherboards can be really really small because they don't have to make uh you know uh footprint for all the different components so for the first time mini itx motherboards have really good performance in the past year or two and so now we're seeing a lot more mini itx performance builds before it was just kind of you want mini itx you might as well just buy like a mac mini or one of those uh uh a open little micro pc things and that was it yeah or there'd be like one board option that isn't an intel server board or something like that you know yeah you go out and like like zotac zotac was really good at that they did a bunch of really cool small form factor boards yes and they basically made it cool so that asus could swoop in and completely take all the market share away from them as far as i could tell yeah that's what asus does really well like hey someone did something cool let's do that way better and and just jump in and launch 10 versions of it yeah yeah they they really they really are good at that aren't they yep um so between corsair and asus is there really any other you know and then amd or intel and nvidia or amd again is there really anything else that you feel like you need for an awesome pc these days uh well it depends on what kind of beer you like uh depending that's my personal preference um actually i used to uh i use a lot of different stuff but so for gaming headsets when i talk when i'm playing the game i use uh like a v2000 um but the um the for when i'm talking on like listening to music i actually use high-end headphones so i'm still playing in that game like i have a nice set of biodynamics that i use for music but when i play games and stuff and i want the mic i just put on my my 2000s ventus 2000s cool how much would you love corsair to get into true audiophile grade headphones as opposed to gaming headphones i would be uh really excited about that but the trick is it's a tough market you know there's a lot of there's a lot of leverage to the old brands like you can't like exactly launch a new quality brand easily it takes a lot of time to get people to realize you're not just trying to you know rip off beats or somebody like that fair enough all right so next topic this one has uh has made some waves over the last little bit here so this was posted on the forum by top war gamer and there's a quote here call of duty developer infinity ward has suggested that the people most engaged with the franchise aren't really gamers at all as they don't play any titles that aren't affiliated with the series that's according to executive producer mark rubin who told oxm that he didn't expect the imminent arrival of the next gen consoles to have much of an impact on the makeup of cod's audience um so the original article was from from iqn and uh i'll just i'll just pull this up here i i there's there's a very angry thread on our forum but i want to hear your initial reaction is someone who plays a game as opposed to lots of games a gamer that's a tough one that depends on would they call themselves a gamer or would we call them gamers i think you get a little bit of that so there's so i don't want to come across like hey you know all the cool guys are you know playing you know quake back in the day and and all that stuff i mean there are guys who didn't get into gaming because they weren't old enough to be into those kinds of games but yeah i would say that you're he's probably got a point and what i think he might have been trying to say is that your average call of duty gamer isn't like a hardcore gamer who plays like you know 10 titles a year he may just play like one or two call of duty titles but you know i i when i was really gaming i have kids now so i don't game as much but when i was really gaming a lot you know every month or something i would find some new game to play and beat through and then go back to counter strike and wait for the next one one yeah yeah that's pretty yeah that sounds like what a lot of people did however i am going to throw this out there is is a professional hockey player who lives breathes and eats nothing but hockey uh an athlete yeah you know like like how do we define the term gamer if not someone who plays games and then that leads into that whole other debate so i mean you're an old school gamer guy is someone who plays like i've been playing this game on on my nvidia shield it's called i don't know it's some it's some stupid game on the shield store where you're like this swordsman and you jump around and like hack it stuff and it's a super casual game am i still a gamer if i don't play any you know real hardcore games anymore yeah i think so i think that that's like okay my wife plays candy crush on her phone right does that make her a gamer i mean you and i might say no that's ridiculous that's just a phone game but i mean if you look at it from with the way that these guys are saying hey the gaming market is growing that's where the gaming market is really growing quickly is like facebook games and mobile app games i would say that if you don't have like a dedicated graphics card in your system you're not a gamer like if you don't if you've never you know if you don't understand what the wasd cluster is you're not a game like that's my like snobbish kind of arrogant attitude towards it yeah but yeah sorry keep going yeah that's i mean but then being that to be fair like i don't want to scare new gamers off either i don't want to be like hey you know we're the cool kids and you're just a new guy and get the hell out of our cool club i want people that like hey maybe if you started playing candy crush saga you'd realize like how cool games can be and then maybe you'd move up and play other games and that's like what i want people to feel like is like hey let's let's welcome the more gamers that get into this business and industry again the more games that get sold that's better for everybody like it's better because then more gamers get moved into buying new stuff and you guys get cooler hardware and cooler mice and keyboards and and you know gaming monitors everything gets better if there's more people here yeah that's very true and i think a lot of it is your personal mindset too because like i know friends that play hockey that would consider themselves athletes and i know friends that play hockey that would not consider themselves athletes so i think it also depends like where you're at like there might be a dude that plays cod every night but he only plays it for 20 minutes before bed and he doesn't really feel like a gamer then there might be someone who plays cod every night and only plays it 20 minutes before bed but is really excited for that every time and reads up on all the new articles on new games and is really into it and considers himself a gamer that's a great point because i i play one sport i play badminton that's it i only play once a week i would call myself a badminton player i wouldn't call myself an athlete yeah that's interesting i would you call me an athlete no right but i play competitive competitive badminton in a ladder i play in a competitive ladder every sunday night and i'm pretty decent but then there's also some other people that are probably a little bit more hardcore into it that only play badminton that would call themselves yes so i think it depends a lot on the individual person so the i mean the question is is i mean really the guy the the call of duty guy from infinity ward or whatever that said that he's just trying to say that and what he's trying to say is call of duty players are call of duty players they're not gamers and he's trying to brand them specifically as guys who love call of duty not guys who love all games and that's that's a solid point there's a lot of dudes who don't play anything but call of duty this is a good perspective because i think most of the the replies on our forum were just very angry about uh about the implication that someone who plays only one game isn't a gamer but this is a much more uh more balanced approach to it i think um i do want to move on because i've got a topic that i'm sure you are going to love to talk about uh i don't know if you saw this one i added it at the last minute but this is a blog on the post on the one and only corsair.com battlefield4 loves high speed memory and was this was this a guest article that you guys had dustin right is he still at an on-tech or what's the deal no dustin dustin works for us now uh when did that happen he started on october 1st uh so he started this month so um yeah we hired dustin he's local so we said hey you know the more guys who know the industry and know hardware the better that work at corsair so um you know we offered you a job too linus but you you know live in canada so i know right i like my dog sleds couldn't actually carry me all the way down there i would run out of snow so i couldn't figure out how i would actually move to california and we already have our quota of one canadian guy with taran so we can't really hire another one um but yeah so like we're we're looking at uh uh hiring more what we call people with enthusiast dna so dustin definitely has it he knows the industry he knows that stuff so we want that uh that kind of person here at corsair so with dustin actually we asked him to look at this just to see hey you know play with the battlefield 4 beta and see what you find out and one of the things he found was this which to be quite honest i could not believe it when i saw this i was like that doesn't make any sense like yeah it doesn't make any sense yeah consciously it doesn't make any damn sense you're looking at it and you're like what that doesn't make sense and then then obviously internally we're like well of course people are going to say corsair says fast memory makes a difference because they sell fast memory and we're totally biased and everything but i've seen i've seen the benchmarks it makes a difference so next week when the game you know hits live and you guys can test it yourselves i highly recommend checking it out because it's weird it doesn't we will validate this i had actually already talked to linus about this before i had seen this article and i had already talked to him about how our benchmarks for battlefield 4 are going to be interesting and i might want to do a whole bunch of extra stuff because we found a lot more usage on cpu than normal on a lot more cores and we found well i found in some other people um that the memory was being used a lot more and people that had really high speed memory were actually getting more performance which is weird we just recently did a video but how it doesn't just did a video where we took some games and we basically went look memory speed doesn't matter for gaming well i guess it's time to throw all that out the window because for one thing bf4 has i think what is it six gigs is the requirement and then eight gigs is recommended and then number two if we're going to see at 1920 by 1080 10 performance improvements in minimum fps which is the one that matters we all know this and at ifinity settings so 5760 by 1200 over 20 performance improvements just from going from 1600 to ddr3 2400 this is a game changer for you guys all of a sudden you have something to talk about again on the memory side yeah we're really excited internally we finally you know we we kiss the heat spreaders and send them out the door and we're ready to go but no the uh the difference is uh actually we're stoked about it because a couple years ago like well now like five years ago when battlefield 2 came out we did a i did a blog because i found out that actually having like i think it was two gig versus four gig or four gig versus eight gig or something made a difference on big maps when you were on an airplane or in a helicopter when the map had to load a bunch of textures at once if you had four gigs of ram or eight gigs ram whatever it was it made a performance difference and so like we were stoked about it because battlefield has always pushed hardware kind of in a special way like not quite like crisis level but it's always pushed hardware kind of interestingly so these guys are definitely putting a lot more effort into the cpu and memory than most guys are and uh i like the fact as a pc gamer i like the fact that they said they don't care what it looks like on consoles they want it to be fast and look good on pc first and that's their target and if it has to be dumbed down for consoles then so be it i like that approach better than well the console guys are complaining if it looks better on pc like screw that no actually i guys i should suffer this was great i had a chance to have some one-on-one time with johan anderson who's their lead technical director for frostbite and he basically was talking about how they're building frostbite 3 for the future like that's the idea what they're building right now this is a heavy heavy investment and they want this thing to scale to continue to scale with future hardware and i find that incredibly exciting and the fact that they've done such a great job of for the first time in in many hardware generations giving us a reason to have anything other than dual channel ddr2 800 megahertz is fantastic i mean remember when ddr3 first came into the limelight and it was like yeah there's no performance delta whatsoever and it's been that story for so long now this is great yeah it's been it's been tough to say i mean it's not a surprise to anybody we've never even claimed recently that that there's been a gaming performance benefit from high-end ram it's always been like encoding or something like that because gaming is almost all gpu limited but now uh we're actually seeing some games take a difference again make a difference again so we're pretty excited about it i think that i mean i don't expect everyone to go out and buy like you know 29 33 megahertz dominator platinums and and whatever else but you can a girl can dream right we could use those dream all you want yeah yeah yeah we could use some of those just throwing that out there yeah yeah that's that's gonna happen i can't even get those right now yeah you know what's funny is i even had an opportunity to ask for some of the 3000 megahertz ones back when those launched and i was just like you know what and we won't really be able to do anything with them because what am i going to say about these things other than like hey course i made this ram it's totally unnecessary who cares yeah exactly i was like i don't want you guys to give me something that there's nothing from you to say about other than that so no there's you know it's it's kind of like once something has reached that kind of commodity scale like you know what do you want to review toothpaste next what do you say like my teeth still feel clean so you know my mouth tastes great we should totally do a toothpaste unboxing you should just take the toothpaste you have to try and talk about it while you're brushing your teeth like yards of toothpaste per tube and just like strip it down the street we could do speed tests so like if you if you if you squeeze it how fast does it come out or like if you slam it durability of the tube we could pack it into your backpack and like and like slam an entire tube if you have it in your luggage an entire tube of aquafresh how many sharp things can be in your luggage before the tube gets punctured and spills all over everything yeah and then how quickly do you get put in the tsa prison we needed into yeah because there would be this gel all over everything in your bag it would smell minty fresh though that's a terrible job someone's job is to test the viscosity of toothpaste that's like someone has to do that someone has to sit there and make sure that every like batch of aquafresh has the same viscosity and it's not too runny or too pasty because they're like this is the sweet spot this is what we've determined through market research this is what people like you know what sometimes my job's kind of hard but then i tell i tell myself like yeah at least i don't have to do that at least you don't have to test the viscosity of toothpaste exactly it could be worse i could be the toothpaste guy but the toothpaste guy is like at least i don't do mayonnaise you know all right so the last thing for you george is we've got a twitter blitz so we've asked our guys to ask you some you know quick questions and the idea is as soon as you hear the question you answer it as quickly as you can and we move on to the next one so okay here we go so i asked them to send in some questions for george and for whatever reason chrome is being chrome's being a turd for me here so yeah it's doing that thing where i try to scroll it and it's just not being very cooperative so uh here we go i remember so here it goes it's back when is what is corsair going to do to make hydro series better we're always pushing the level of performance quickly so better performance stuff easier to install and working on better noise control stuff so that you guys that want to make it quieter can make it quieter and those you guys who want to go for the performance can make it faster that's that's the end goal cooler quieter easier to install every generation gets better uh speaking of which this is another great follow-up question question for george is corsair planning an h110i so something with corsair link speaking of better control and fan profiles and pump profiles so two things uh yeah we we will eventually i'm sure have a corsair link version of the high-end cooler it's like the 110i and then the other side of it is corsair link is is being significantly revamped as well so we're having uh we're doing much much better versions of corsair link and they're in development now too so we've actually the 2.5 software is going to be launched in beta pretty quick and that has a lot of bug fixes and windows 8.1 compatibility and all that stuff so we're going to have some stuff ready to go on our forums pretty quickly for that george will there ever be sp140s and will we ever see led versions of sp series fans yes there will eventually be sp140s uh i can't give you a better date on that but there will be sp140s um the led version to the sp series fans if enough people ask us for them then yeah we can do that pretty quickly but i just you know i don't know that there's a lot of guys putting uh led fans on their radiators or sheet sinks most people put them in their cases and the side panels and front panels but if they really want led sp fans and they bug us on facebook about it enough then yeah we'll do it i'm gonna throw this at you george some people are obsessive compulsive enough that they're just not willing to buy different fans to put in different parts of their system and they want all the same fans and someone's pointing at me i have no idea what his problem is so for me because af series fans for me are much worse on heat section radiators compared to sp and sp isn't really that much worse in an open airflow environment compared to af series if i was going to pick one i would pick sp and so that is my justification for led sp fans needing to exist just throwing all right well so we'll do we'll do a linus edition led with uh like your face on the low the hub label so that it spins around really quickly but then when it's off you can tell it's a linus fan can i be giving like a thumbs up and be wearing like like awesome corsair sunglasses that are like this big yeah we can have giant sunglasses and like a little like caricature of you on the box that'd be awesome if you guys do a linus edition product then i will give you guys three thousand dollars of free advertising on linus tech tips youtube channel there that's my that's my careful what you wish for small incentive which product all right well okay no hold on a second i don't want a linus edition usb butt plug because that would be too predictable we almost made it through a stream well i have to take something off the road map now i have to go i have to go talk to our usb person and say hey kill that kill that all right uh why doesn't corsair become a system builder because all our competitors do that that's what our competitors are doing that's uh i mean not our competitors i'm sorry that's what most of our customers are doing so if you go to like cyber power and and digital storm and those guys because i thought you were taking a shot at those one guys that uh sort of exists and sort of a thing okay actually i just kind of forgot how to speak english uh for a second and i forgot what words mean no um realistically the uh the trick is that we wanted to make sure that um that we got the best product for our suppliers and stuff like that and actually that's a completely different skill set you know building up a system and then selling it to people that's different than selling hobby parts fair enough what the hell was that he's pulling something out of his bag yeah my battery is about to die on my laptop which is going to be a real problem for me so uh here do you have a do you have a plug that you can yeah get that into all right all right i think we're going to take two more twitter blitz questions um okay george we all know corsair makes some sweet premium stuff so would you consider doing graphics cards oh um a couple years ago i think it was uh donald trump said something with the airline industry like it's a lot of it's a good way to lose a lot of money really really fast and i feel the same way about the graphics card business like you have to be really really quick to be on the ball and it's all controlled kind of by amd and nvidia and what their chip allocation is so whoever they decide to give the chips to is who gets the the best cards and i don't really want to play that game we do we knew enough with uh kind of really tight stuff with the memory i'd rather work on the the other stuff especially because evga and asus and those guys are doing a really good job on the graphics card front i'll just kind of let them have that um i don't really want to fight them on that one i mean i'm not saying never but i'm saying right now i wouldn't do it i have uh this is not a twitter blitz question but i would love to see there's a particular market that i want corsair in that maybe i'll i don't want to give away anything but uh ping me or something i'll reach out to you separately because i think it would be uh it would be awesome because i think there's still at least one category within the sort of the finished pc ecosystem corsair is not in yet that you could really contribute to and guys i'd love you know what i'd love to see your twitter comments or i'd love to see your uh your thoughts in the twitch chat figure out what you think i'm talking about all right so last one for george this is for george i have a 350 d and i wanted to know what's better positive or a negative air pressure with an h100i at the top you're not going to see a huge difference to be quite honestly with positive and negative what we found in our testing in the lab in the controlled environment in our ovens is that matching in intake and out uh exhaust rather outtake what's that intake and exhaust matching is the is the key so if you get a really close match you're better off there's all kinds of stuff online about no you know positive fresh is better but negative pressure is better and and then you know one of them will provide more dust we've tested it a bunch of different times and what we've seen constantly is that if you get them close to match and your cfm is about the same intake and exhaust you get the best performance the the problem is if you put too much exhaust the hot air doesn't you don't have enough air inside to heat up if you get too much intake you don't have enough exhausting the hot air so you have to get close to match so the goal is measure your cfm and balance it all right well you know what i think that's uh i think that's pretty much it from our side uh thank you very much for joining us this was awesome and very educational and uh guys please tweet at corsair memory on twitter or you know hit them up on facebook give them a big thanks for allocating some of george's valuable time for us here on the show today and george again thank you personally for taking the time and if there's anything else you want to say to the viewers i guess now's the time oh yeah just wanted to say thanks guys if you guys have recommendations for new products and go to our facebook and tell us what you want us to build i'm on overclock.net harta forums uh occasionally on your forums lenis uh and linus and a couple other people's forums sorry i almost called you an operating system um and then uh a bunch of other places so if you if you see me around and you just want to give me feedback on what you think i'm doing wrong or right just feel free to that's absolutely awesome if more companies had guys like george that are accessible to the community i think the uh the pc enthusiast market would be a better place thanks again man take care see you later all right talk to you guys later bye bye all right so guys that was george from corsair so let's just completely overtake their facebook page and uh just destroy it with requests for sp series led fans as well as 140 millimeter sp fans let's see if we can uh make some magic happen here guys i couldn't hear bloody anything i know i'm sorry no it's i i think i don't know what's going on i think the port on the amp must be pretty much dead or something because it was also crackling the whole way through it was yeah you can hear him though so that was good that's one of the reasons why i didn't chime in too much because i'm like i think i heard something i know i know anyway thank you for taking one for the team there but uh let's uh let's move on into our next topic here i think that's man oh oh should we should we wait one or should we just go for it right now let's let's uh you know what let's do google's iron grip on android titans first so this is an ars technica article ars technica article and let's go ahead and fire this up so i'm gonna let you handle most of this one because this is something you feel pretty strongly about is and you're gonna need a little bit of a cooler before i'm gonna i gotta i gotta prepare myself for the mantle versus g-sync rant that's about to happen here okay so quite a few times over the last few live streams people have heard me say that i've noticed that google seems to be tightening down and changing who they are they seem to be changing their face they're not the google that we've dealt with in the past um and there's a few things that's been changing especially focused on the android operating system so the aosp the android open source project is kind of being abandoned in certain ways so how that's happening is we've seen stuff like um messaging i'm going to forget some of them now but like messaging and music and all these different apps that they used to have and are still there get basically abandoned they're not developing for them anymore and what they've done is they've searched is another one search yeah aosp search so these things are still around but they're archaic at this point and no one is really using them because they have released new versions that they're actually developing for music new versions calendar keyboard if you just keep going through there's even more i believe yeah camera messaging i brought that one up yeah um and then the next one that's coming up is is photos or i think it's like google yeah google pictures or something like that so they're gonna be really they're gonna be removing that well not really removing it's still there the aosp version is still there but they're releasing closed versions so what they've trying to do is force everyone to use their own apps because if you want to use any of these apps you have to join the i don't remember exactly what it's called but it's like the android alliance or something like that and if you're within the android alliance you can't really leave or else it gets messy and when you're inside of it you can only manufacture approved devices the open handset alliance there we go yeah so uh acer tried to leave and they tried to do something else and that was a big problem that was a really big goal and they they google basically threatened to not allow them to produce any any android devices if they didn't stop doing their own their own branched version of android i mean even for someone the size of amazon maintaining kindle is really really difficult it's becoming more and more difficult and so you run into problems like with sanogen mod where they can't actually include g apps the google apps you have to install sanogen and then go install gs because they won't allow them to bundle them luckily it's fairly easy in that case but companies are getting kind of scared because this is really aggressive there's a serious walled garden going off with google oh yeah this is something we haven't mentioned yet so you guys should read this article it's fantastic it's on ours technica it'll be linked in the in the doc but okay not only can you not produce for yourself but if you um so someone like someone like amazon they can't even get an android um an open handset alliance member to manufacture kindle fire for them they have to get someone who's not a member of the alliance to do it so automatically most of the major oem so that's foxconn asus acer htc lenovo all these guys are completely off the list and they have to use much smaller manufacturers who are not members of this of this secret handshake club that google is locking into their way of doing things and then not allowing them to even facilitate anyone else to have a different branching version of android so getting into the club as he was just saying is difficult and shady and a lot of it's behind doors and it's not entirely known how it happens and then getting out is kind of the same way and when you're in there it's nice because you get access to all the google apps and everything but then it's also kind of scary because you don't know what can happen next so a few people within the closed garden um like samsung are trying to develop their own alternate apps and you might be wondering why is there all this bloatware on certain say samsung as much as we complain about samsung's equivalence so here here we go there's actually a great graphic showing all the equivalents chrome and internet play store and samsung apps calendar and calendar play games and games are we seeing a pattern here is samsung hedging their bets the base basically samsung is developing all this stuff that people might not even be using so they can get user feedback and make sure that it works on all their devices so that if something drastic goes wrong they can bail and still be okay and still have all these applications because aosp kind of styled applications have been basically abandoned in terms of development if they didn't have this stuff ready if they lost the ability to use google apps they would be losing everything that makes the device awesome because well okay and the user usability side not necessarily performance but that's brutal and this is not something that we're used to from well it's been going on for a little while now but it's still not something that you would have as a characteristic for google in the past because how they got to the top was embracing change and embracing user feedback and user contribution and now that they're up there they have like 80 market share or something they're like nope walls up no one can touch our stuff it's all closed back off and it's interesting because we've seen other companies kind of do this and it doesn't even actually always turn out that great but if anyone can do it it's probably going to be google so i don't know i mean um it's funny because google built this os on the openness of it and the crusaders that crusaded for well hey you know we want to support this initiative versus apple's approach which is completely walled garden are they really that different anymore no not really to be honest um it's it's going to be interesting leading into stuff like cyanogen mod where they're going to become their own full company now they're going to rename they're going to be their own os or is is this type of people going to take the core of android and just abandon and then just have have all their own new apps like samsung is preparing to do but not actually doing like i don't i don't know it's interesting i google i used to love you man like what's going on yeah i mean even things like like the the whole thing that's been going on with google and microsoft over the youtube app that is another great example of how google's going beyond not you know building an app for a competing platform but hindering microsoft from creating a youtube player for their platform at every turn and just generally being butt heads about it um to the point where even the google fans are for the most part kind of looking at this going i'm a google fan i'm still going for android my next phone will probably still be android like 99 sure i'm still not happy that's crazy i'm not not so into it i'm totally into open source i'm totally into freeing up development and that's you know what if they started off this way that would be cool but they kind of got everyone onto the boat and then once everyone was on the boat they locked all the doors and they're like nope nope nope can't do anything you're screwed you're stuck which is which is not cool and and it makes so much more sense now yeah because like you and i remember talking i don't remember what phone we saw but someone at the at the uh tech fair showed us a phone i don't remember what phone that was but we were kind of laughing because that was the first time we had played with a few of the new samsung apps yeah we're like why the heck does this crap exist like this is so stupid like there's so much better stuff and then it makes so much more sense now samsung probably knew they're in this walled garden they know the stuff that's going on they're smart they're a smart company they probably saw this coming and they're preparing um and they're probably one of the few fish that google might have trouble pushing around yeah i would i would certainly think so i mean if samsung all of a sudden decided okay well no we're gonna go we're gonna go windows phone and we're gonna put the same kind of i mean samsung does a lot of r&d yeah not only on the hardware side but also on the software side and they went if they suddenly went look we're gonna cooperate with microsoft to the same extent that we've cooperated with you and we've helped build android android was a tiny blip on the radar until samsung really threw their hat into the ring and that was when android took off there's no denying it you can't just well htc was doing great yeah in in the context of how large the android market was at the time htc was doing great yeah in the context of what android is now htc is a drop in in a you know an ocean um speaking of which lumia sales so so okay so speaking of which htc in spite of the one being fantastic is uh seeing a little bit of uh of a decline in market share so the ray william are ray william johnson downey jr campaign doesn't seem to be doing that much um have we reached the point where from a hardware perspective phones have become so commodity that you have to approach them a completely different way samsung has just a billion and one different models so there's something to buy for every price point and they have that trusted name apples resorted to like colors again they've never done that with iphone yeah but then there's also other problems are going to be further on in this document with like their screen having issues and stuff just yeah we're moving on to that next we're moving on to that next nokia is doing the same thing it's like look we're gonna have colors we're gonna have 43 megapixels have have we just gotten to the point where it's it's just getting impossible to differentiate in the phone market anymore they all run basically the same hardware yeah the internal hardware is so freaking similar that's that's my biggest problem with the phone market is people will debate different things so much and argue so much and i'm like well these four phones are identical so and it's not changing that fast anymore no i mean it's not like there's something that has dramatically leapfrogged htc one in terms of performance it's still a top tier phone but for whatever reason no one's really talking about it i still like it actually i'm finally getting an lte compatible version i don't know if i told you that so i'm super super stoked on that one thing that i've noticed with the phone market is they basically did what like mainly graphics cards and cpus but what the computer market did but instead the computer market did it kind of slowly right we're kind of coming on the downturn now the phone the phone market was like boop like they're already done the huge hill that was there so so strongly for a few years and now it's just like oh yeah we're just releasing derivatives of the same product basically it's interesting um okay so before we move into our next topic which is going to be g-sync and mantle so so my main thoughts on these two technologies i would like to give you guys a word from our sponsors so our first sponsor is squarespace.com so squarespace is the easy way to create a beautiful functional website for your blog organization or just for a web store or whatever else they have a ton of different tools and they're phenomenally easy to use compared to a lot of other things in fact we went from a wordpress site for linusmediagroup.com to a squarespace site and it has 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and while we've taken down manufacturer websites and blogs and stuff like that many times many times our own site doesn't go down even if we hit it really really hard so it's not perfect for everyone like it's not really great for running a forum so linustechtips.com is still our own creation it does have 24 7 tech support and you can tinker around a fair bit with the css and html if you do want to customize things so there you go sponsor number one thank you squarespace for sponsoring the wandshow and our second sponsor hotspot shield so bit.ly slash hs share these guys we actually did have one complaint on the forum but i was super impressed because what they did is they actually sent a representative over they had a post on that thread within i think it was about a day it was pretty quick with a phone number and an email address and okay i think i got the phone number to give to the guy in case he needed it and then he didn't end up needing it but they got an email address to someone they could email directly a person not like customer service at hotspot shield.com and the thing got taken care of and i was really impressed by that and they've committed to me that they're going to make sure that our our peeps get supported so that's really cool so hotspot shield is a vpn solution it works on your desktop your laptop your phone whatever platform you might want to use and what vpns do is a number of things so number one is they make your privacy a little bit easier to maintain online by obscuring your ip address your ip address can be used to find out all kinds of cool stuff about you including your location to within about a city block in many cases so that's one thing it does number two is it allows you to circumvent geographical restrictions so if you want american netflix and you happen to live in india then a vpn is a fantastic way to do that because it will show netflix a us ip but you will actually be behind that ip getting the data just passed through to you it does slow down your connection because there is a pass through but between those two features if you're not already sold the last one is of course the ability to get past things like firewalls or or blackouts in particular regions so you can access content and sites that are otherwise not available in your area so that's uh that's another really good thing about it as well so again bit.ly slash hs share and you can get 20% off elite prices using the code linus so and there's a there's a free trial of elite as well i should have mentioned that too all right just before we jump into the new topic okay all right so you're not ready for me to just basically go off the wall about this for a while very soon this will not take that long um one thing that i want to tell everyone about oh yeah right is actually it's kind of in a beta right now we actually already have changes that we're going to be pushing to it just we're going to try and do large incremental changes instead of changing it every single day um but what you can do now is if you go on the forum scroll all the way down to the bottom and click the change theme button there's now a date a day theme selection so what we're going to try and do right now is just kind of touch up the day theme we have a few different things we want to fix on it and it reskins the forum to actually look more like a linus tech tips thing than a default thing we will always have the default theme available so don't worry about it if you don't have to risk i mean always is a strong word but yeah unless like we don't plan to remove it we're not going to go out of our way to remove it if something happens and we have to remove it or something like that sure but we're not going to go out of our way to remove it um so for now if you want to try the more like black gray and orange styled theme which honestly looks a lot more linus tech tipsy to me uh you can go ahead and try that out like i said there's gonna be patches so a few minor things will change not really the color schemes or anything like that but certain icons like the forum red icons which are still default and stuff like that that'll that'll change so yeah all right guys so here we go this link is actually from linus tech tips.com and there's a thread on the forum called amd's mantle versus g-sync i typed up a wall of text which you can see over there about the pros and cons that i feel exist for both of them so let's start with project mantle i think i don't think they actually call it project mental i don't care i'm calling it project mantle because in my mind mantle is a project it's not done we haven't seen it yet that's the issue with mantle there's a whole lot of fanboy jibber jabber going back and forth about how great mantle is going to be how irrelevant it's going to be and the truth of the matter is nobody knows i talked again so i was talking to dice's technical development whatever his title is big deal big deal okay big deal on frostbite engine frostbite engine i said what's performance going to be like with mantle versus not mantle and he says we're not sure yet it doesn't know i mean it's it's october the patch is coming in december that should give you guys some idea how not not we don't know yet now the theory is it's going to be awesome i personally think we're going to see dramatic huge performance improvements i would be very surprised if we don't see performance improvements deep into the double digits just from looking at some of the ways that it is going to remove existing bottlenecks but a really good point again that was made to me was well a lot of the time you remove one bottleneck and find another one yeah you remove this bottleneck only to discover that there was another slightly bigger bottleneck like just just somewhere else and then there you go and you got to go and fix that too so we might not even see even if we see small improvements with mantle we might not even see huge improvements until other tweaks are made the other thing is support until amd does their developer conference which is coming in november we know nothing about what's even going to support mantle i don't think even nvidia knows much about which projects are gonna which which upcoming games are going to support mantle amd kept this thing pretty well under wraps we know like we know like battlefield 4 and a lot of people can make assumptions that probably stars is and will and if star citizen does then maybe cry engine but like there's a few things but this is all speculation at this point we don't know so that's what i have to say about mantle would i be making a buying decision would i be dropping money on something on the basis of mantle the answer is no i think a good point you made was about indie devs indies huge right now yeah massive like absolutely like temple of doom huge and so if i mean it does add a significant amount of development time to your game to implement something like mantle so unless we see something like uh what was your scenario i i did a little bit more research on i don't think it's gonna be possible okay i don't know but if they have some way that can help people translate code into mantle or something like that that would make a lot of sense but it's it's not easy i'm getting which engine was it uh my fury which is not going to work was based on the unity engine um but so for an indie dev think about this an indie dev goes in they have no real backing it's a bunch of dudes living in the one guy's basement whose mom doesn't mind them staying there where all the other ones want them to get out of their house and decide to make this awesome game which ends up making them a ton of money but they don't have a ton of money at the time and they need to push it out on some platform they're picking phone they're trying to pick windows they're trying to pick console they're picking one yeah they're probably not going to go with mantle because that's slightly less than half of one platform and there's a lot of misunderstandings about mantle coding for mantle is not the same as xbox one no there are going to be some similarities there will be some principles that developers when they are learning how to code for ps4 and xbox one and even weu to a certain extent that they will then be able to apply to a mantle implementation on the pc but it's not the same thing it's not like oh every platform uses mantle no no no no that's not how it works every platform um from the from the next gen consoles and upcoming pcs and then the last gen of amd graphics cards uses gcn which is a particular architecture for amd's microprocessor it is not it is not a software way of that hardware interacting with a game engine so mantle is pc but the principles may be applicable from other platforms that's all they're really saying and translating from a system that has mantle on it to a system that has mantle on it is supposed to be really easy but translating from non-mental to mantle is not going to be easy all right so that's what we have to say about that i am i'm sitting here bated breath waiting for the november developer conference and we are going to be running battlefield 4 through its paces as soon as that mantle patch drops trust me that will happen we're extremely excited i mean one of the things that i have heard already is that even though uh battlefield 4 already makes excellent use of multiple cpu cores we may see even dramatic improvements again heard that as well with mantle so so we'll have the launch benchmarks for battlefield 4 because everyone's going to want that and then well all the battlefield games we go pretty over the top so we'll have the launch one and we'll have a future one as well but i but but it's all uncertain now okay so moving on to gsync everyone's okay not everyone some people seem to get it but a lot of people's perception of gsync is wrong i saw a lot of posts in that thread that made me feel like i needed to write this wall of text this one right here because the perception of gsync is wrong for the most part out there gsync is amazing it is a game changer it is not open for debate allowing the graphics card to push instructions to the monitor to refresh does not increase latency it does not work that way it improves latency so people saying oh well then my monitor refresh rate will be less because my graph because it will run at 50 hertz instead of 60 hertz which it would if my graphics card dips to 50 fps right but your graphics card was only outputting 50 fps so instead of a of a crappy tearing leggy mess or or implementing v sync which is going to take your frame rate all the way from 60 to 50 or if you're running a 120 hertz panel it'll take it from 120 down to 60 down to 30 depending on how performance takes a dive we will be getting a frame update to the screen in as timely a manner as possible as opposed to getting some of one frame and some of the next one and having tearing and it basically looking horrible this is huge it is awesome and it is it is it is not it is not something that there is any conversation to be had about now there are some issues number one hardware support kepler only i recently had to upgrade my graphics card in fact my computer sitting downstairs in the middle of a graphics card upgrade much to my dismay because i was running a gtx 590 thinking that was going to last me for an awful long time given i'm not that demanding anymore i thought at least until star citizen anyway um it only so it's only supported by kepler so you will need a graphics card upgrade if you're not running gtx 600 series and higher number two is monitors now we've already started to see some pricing come through it looks like asus's monitor was projected to be around 399 which for a gaming grade monitor i guess isn't that bad although i still don't know how i feel about gaming grade monitors for the most part because high refresh rate monitors with tn panels we have an exception i think we both agree the xl 2420 te is not a bad one it's not great i would you buy one personally yeah just say no that's fine i know that i know what you're gonna say no but i have suggested it to people okay and they are happy with it and i wouldn't buy one but i've suggested it to people and my recent video about it was a very strong recommendation if you want a high refresh rate panel this is the one that we've seen so far that you know thumbs up okay right now with the way that g-sync is positioned as a gaming technology only i think those are the only monitors we're going to see it implemented with right off the bat with that said and so that's at 400 dollars pricing will come down the g-sync hardware unit is not only just for g-sync it also replaces the scaler that is built into the monitor so nvidia knows a thing or two about scaling and a thing or two about processing images so they actually went okay well look we'll give you a piece of hardware that does something that you already had to buy hardware to support and also is compatible with g-sync we just want you to pay our licensing fee which they have claimed is pretty reasonable so if that's the case i believe and i hope that we will see monitors that aren't just tn panels and aren't necessarily just high refresh rate monitors so maybe we'll see you know 60 hertz 2560 by 1440 monitors or even 4k monitors or tvs supporting this g-sync standard and it will be a new golden age for gaming they had a 4k tv it was like an 85 inch tv or something ridiculous like that running at the nvidia conference and i kind of looked at it and i went you know uh if i were to take screen grabs of this great i wouldn't play a game on this no looks terrible it looks terrible with all the tearing and all the visual artifacts that exist because of that desynchronization between the output fps and the input and then output refresh rate on the monitor that exists so will g-sync run on amd is a question i've seen a lot what nvidia said during the conference is we haven't precluded so that is to say they haven't decided not to allow amd or intel to license the technology i hope they do and i hope amd swallows whatever pride they may have and whatever issues they might have about working with nvidia and i hope we see g-sync on both sides because take take this for what it is i will not consider gaming without g-sync once monitor availability becomes widespread widespread it's we need like i think this might have even been in the dock like i need like a pro-art level monitor yes i want a proper monitor that would be awesome with like a gorgeous ips panel you know give me give me a 10-bit panel i mean we're seeing nvidia hardware on the monitor now we might even be looking at lower response times lower input lag i don't know this is this is a guess but nvidia cares about low latency in a way that i really feel like the commodity monitor makers do not well younger me would have gone for that that that bennett q super fast monitor um but now that i'm not like trying to play competitively on all that kind of stuff i'm playing more for the experience of games even if i'm playing multiplayer doesn't color make a difference it does you can totally tell and like that that pa279q that monitor oh man we have a we have a video editing build guide coming out guys that we used a pa279q monitor this is a 10-bit panel so that full deep color support with a 12-bit lookup table and even when you're not running 10-bit it has it comes pre-calibrated with delta e of less than 0.5 the colors are basically perfect to the eye for people that don't understand like i went from my really high-end pa panels yeah to that and they like if i put that beside my pa panel i would put it to shame like makes it look stupid oh like oh speaking of which edzel says i can have it if hold on if i get him a matching 1920 by 1200 monitor for his because he'd rather have two monitors that are the same res that have mismatched ones and i asked him does it have to be color accurate he says no so the ben q on my desk at home is going on ed's workstation that's what does he realize what he's doing yeah yeah yeah he was like no it doesn't have to be cut he would rather have two same resolution editor doesn't care if it's color accurate and and you you heard me talking to brendan he'd rather have the high-end g-force card with more kuda course than the quadro so he wouldn't be able to use a higher than six-bit panel anyway you didn't tell him he could use that panel you told him he specifically could not well he already has a pa and you know he's not he's not getting that one it was between me and edzel which is ridiculous you should not have that screen you know it oh i'm so dumb he's gonna open spreadsheets on this screen and they will look fantastic ridiculous he's gonna put a quadro in his computer and use that monitor open spreadsheets and it hurts my brain oh it's gonna i told him it shouldn't go to should i water cool the quadro i bet i could it's it's just a 470 it's not gonna overheat it does nothing but all that quadro is gonna do is run your ui it's loud it's single slot it's loud stupid your computer turns off and you hit your table anyway and i'm gonna be doing most of my gaming streaming to shield anyway oh my god oh you're gonna put in your personal rig yeah so it's not even gonna be used for work at all no no not at all sweet awesome right now his work computer if he hits the table just completely shuts off but nope he's gonna take this awesome hardware home home along with your two shields i'm a terrible person jerk jeez anyways um so speaking of shield i mean fps okay you know what let's talk let's talk 290x i want to hear your thoughts first and i want to hear overclocked and non-overclocked thoughts let's get while we're talking about this let's get twitter rolling about 290x yeah we want to hear you guys okay hit them with something um and move over the spacing is weird i'll scooch over here what do you want me to what do you mean hit them with something get close you said hit them with hit them with a question 290x what are your thoughts of what what questions do you have for me i benched it what questions do you work do you have for linus he researched the 80 trillion page document that comes with it which i skimmed through but i think he read it and between all the other decks is like there's a lot of other decks yeah yeah there's a lot of information about it what questions do you have for us about it because honestly when i was reading the comments below the video of which there are many there like people either straight up muted the video once i came on and then just decided to talk about the charts which is ridonkulous or like muted the video while linus was talking because we both said it like and there's people just saying stuff in the comments that are completely wrong and clarified in the video by both of us so i don't like i'm sure there's questions out there so go ahead and ask um all right so i'm going to kick this off i was asked on hardware canucks's weekly show i don't know if you know i did a guest bot we recorded it yesterday to sum up radion r9 290x in one word and i used the word competitive um can you have a better word no um no that's a pretty good word we've taken some flak for the fact that the 290x loses in our benchmarks at both 1080p and 1440p now let me let me say this though 290x is competitive the kinds of margins of of loss and win that we're looking at in our testing are the kinds of things that you would need to run fraps to notice for the most part there were some exceptions where minimum frame rates were quite a bit lower on 290x but in one game we might be able to chalk that up to early drivers because trust me they're early oh yeah they're very early and what we saw with never subtle was amd has been able to do some serious driver tweak i mean they probably have a significant chunk of their driver team working just on fixing the frame pacing issue right now oh yeah they're back to having everybody focused on game tweaks we could be looking at a very different story for 290x so we aren't down on 290x i want to be clear about that this is a return to competition and look at that pricing the pricing is amazing and even quoted in the video by me which i don't understand how people didn't hear i ran it at stock against the 780 in a bunch of the same games and it won but we don't report those numbers we report overclocked numbers that's why they're different and for people saying well you guys should report non-overclocked why there's literally there were 104 journalists at the hawaii event alone and i know most of them probably each and every one of them got a 290x to do a review of them at least 103 of them ran the cards at stock okay we run our cards overclocked so we're doing something that's at least a little bit different so you can see the different perspective and for everyone running around saying oh well they're clearly paid off by nvidia nvidia doesn't give us any money they give us graphics cards so does amd so by that logic we're paid off by both of them i guess um what are you talking about and and i even posted this in the thread about how i'm biased um i should see if i can dig that up because it's a it's a fantastic thread um we were doing game roundups like game showdowns for for months actually we need to get back to doing those but it's been a bit of we've got stars isn't coming out we've got we've got battlefield 4 coming out it's been a bit of a barren wasteland in terms of games releases for a while but amd won almost every one of them and we took so much flak for running overclocked settings because our amd cards overclocked really well and like exceptionally well 7000 series overclocked incredibly you take all the sliders and put them at the end it was a really good overclocker and now the same guys are pissed that we're running overclocked settings because it doesn't overclock that well what do you want we run overclocked settings for better or for worse our 290x wasn't a great overclocker our 780x is a decent overclocker but it's not a golden sample by any stretch look in about six weeks there's going to be non-reference cards i am already in the queue for an asus non-reference card i expect that one with a better power design and a better cooler to kick some serious ass i have also contacted coolants already about getting a 290x water block as well as an external water cooling unit and some quick disconnects like we discussed and we are going to take gtx 780 and radion 290x we are going to overclock them to the max and we are going to remove thermals as an obstacle because that is the issue with reference 290x cards the cooler is not great the chip runs hot fine let's water block them then we'll see who comes out on top and there will be no questioning the numbers at that point i'm very excited to bring you guys those numbers and people that were pissed about the current video the problem is it almost maxes out its temps at stock so when you overclock it there's not much room and the thing that's throttling it is temps you can't go above 95 degrees and that would be crazy anyways it works the same way as gpu boost 2.0 where once you reach a threshold for power temperatures maximum voltage or maximum clocks as you have them set it stops turning up starts throttling back so i sorry i i could clock up and i was clocked up at one point in time but it wouldn't even run at that speed if i was clocked up above where i ran the current benchmarks it would throttle down and actually produce worse numbers that's how the new systems are working so i had to find a happy medium which i did and i reported that in the doc it's not about turning the dial as high as it goes and you know what it's been like this for a long time even cpu clocking cpu overclocking memory overclocking when you push it too far you can see performance degradation it's not just about clock speed and stability test run some benchmarks make sure you're still getting performance improvements because it doesn't always happen it's about a balance yes so we just ranted really quickly it might be time for twitter blitz yeah that actually didn't even take that long um well it's it's not complicated it's a hundred dollars it's a hundred dollars cheaper and you know what's funny is it's a hundred dollars cheaper because amd knows that's the right positioning for it whatever amd might say about whatever the press release might say marketing speak blah blah blah blah with every recent graphics card release probably for the last couple years the pricing has reflected how the manufacturer knows it is stacked up in the market 780 ti will be positioned such that price performance it'll make sense compared to 290x titan and 780 that is how it will be positioned what i'm really interested in is checking out price performance ideals with a water blocked 290x that's going to be awesome because it's cheaper and water blocks are expensive yeah plumbing is expensive but if you add that in it's like you said like a hundred bucks so if you already have a water loop just adding the block will almost equalize it to a 780 and then checking out that performance is going to be freaking interesting yeah that's going to be really interesting so don't worry guys we are not done investigating 290x 780 and for that matter 780 ti because who knows i have honestly i don't even i don't even know anything yet never mind nda's i haven't even signed an nda about 780 ti because i don't know anything i don't know i don't know pricing i don't know anything for sure so there's rumors but we don't know anything all right and people talking about the 95 degree thing you know what um it all is it's funny because there's this misconception i only buy intel cpus because amd runs hot i only run amd cpus because intel runs hot or the same thing for graphics cards i run nvidia because amd runs hot i run amd because nvidia runs hot they have all had times in their history when their chips have run too hot okay so amd um thoroughbred palomino those were hot running chips okay uh intel prescott man i saw the backs of motherboards that were brown like dark brown from the power being drawn by the vrms okay prescott run ran hot all right nvidia uh fermi that wasn't that long ago gtx 480 was a furnace that thing made your room hot it was a space heater it ran at like 100 degrees seriously i had to have a fan in my window okay amd let's go back we don't even have to go back very far for them at all 2900 xt comes to mind man did that thing ever run hot that thing was brutal and that cooler was loud and then now okay r9 290x runs a little bit hot but it's happened at times and go back and a lot of those products are still working for better or for worse with the exception of probably prescott man that thing probably burnt out well it was the boards that were the problem yeah it was drawing too much power and running really hot and other board makers weren't ready for it whereas the graphics card guys are used to this graphics cards have been running at 100 degrees for years 8800 gt with that single slot cooler they all ran at 100 degrees there was i actually got a lot of comments um directly through my live stream last night through my twitter and comments on that video of people being like slick how scared were you of the 95 degree temperatures because there's more than one article being like oh my god this thing's 35 degrees i won't even overclock it at all and it's like dude it it's fine like we've seen this it's designed to run that way it turns the fan down until it's running at 95 degrees yeah okay that's it's intentional by design if you don't like it turn it down turn it to 80 80 degrees turn it to 60 degrees and you might because that fan's insane and you might because okay but turn it down to whatever temperature you want that's the way it works all right and saying that i said that before and i got flack for it the like i said the fan it's really loud it's a really loud cooler everyone says it's loud what do you want us to say because it's loud just get an aftermarket one like yeah don't worry about it wait for the non-reference card is i think probably the best advice i can give for 290x right now unless you really need one immediately in which case we'll sell you ours because we're gonna get some aftermarket we're waiting for dad aftermarket one yeah unless you want a water cool then you might need a reference card all right yeah yeah so twitter blitz uh yeah yeah yeah let's do that twitter blitz i'd completely forgotten about that we want to hear your guys's thoughts on 290x now that i've gone on a tirade for the last however long we might have cleared up everything yeah we might have uh you know what feel free to alienware just followed me feel free to uh to let us know if what we just said completely cleared up any of your misconceptions at about 290x all right so do you think personally that ti will be greater than tightening gaming i think it's possible there's some rumored specs that it's going to have all of the kudakors enabled in which case it might i've had four ssds in six months as boot drives all die how can that happen heat can be an issue depending on the ssds you're buying they might not be the highest quality ssds nan flash uh varies dramatically in quality from the best of the best that guys like intel who actually manufacture the stuff keep for themselves and don't even sell to anybody samsung does the same bloody thing and all the way down to what you find in commodity flash drives for three dollars and you can bet that if they put that stuff in an ssd it wouldn't last very long brands that i'd recommend intel samsung uh crucial people that manufacture own stuff basically guys that manufacture their own stuff san disc is another good one um i'm oh there's there's one really important one i know that i'm missing plexter is another really good one all right what does it feel like to have a bowing for a gpu i don't know i haven't used it yet unfortunately uh when you test a watercooled 290x will you watercool the 780 we'll try with and without i think that'll be an interesting scenario 400 for asus g-sync 1080p or 150 dollars 1080p and 250 additional gpu budget g-sync seems great but the price premium seems too high good point um it would be the kind of thing where if you're already buying a decent monitor anyway i would consider the g-sync option um with that said not having tearing i mean they showed off g-sync not with titans with 760s that was the point they were trying to make is that look this makes a mid-range graphics card really able to run higher graphical settings and still feel smooth and still be smooth all right there you go alienware follows me so we can all see that yay hi alienware if you guys are watching your computers are kind of plastic i mean i'm not saying they're bad i'm just saying they're plastic but then but then you always say that i don't say that it's implied no you have okay i said i don't really like plastic okay alienware if you're listening i'd love to see some more premium like metal chassis i know it's hard to do with like commodity gaming machines but and they do all their like crazy mechanical movie stuff but yeah they have they do have some cool stuff in their chassis though have you looked at a recent alienware high-end one like some of the lighting effects and some of the tool list i know they have in there they've always honestly they've always done pretty cool things i just haven't really liked the quality of the materials the last time i tried to buy something from them was when they did the star wars limited edition painted or vinyl wrapped case do you remember that thing yeah i was like i was like please i will pay you double whatever it costs please they're like nope sorry you gotta buy a system like fine fine seeing how close 780 and titan are in benchmarks what do you think will happen to titan when 780 comes out good call um i think titan was already irrelevant yeah for gaming for game because the the driver optimizations for 780 have been so much better for gaming uh well i guess no it's the same gpu i mean i would imagine they're getting the same performance improvements made differences more on the 780 okay and in some benchmarking so in some interesting in some interesting situations we haven't been testing titan that much because we noticed that no one really cared um but i've looked at other people's benchmarks and i've noticed that in certain weird games 780 will actually come above right which is weird but i i have to assume it has something to do with driver optimizations titan is what it is it's for kuda programmers um hardcore video editors who want as many kuda cores as they can possibly stuff in a machine titan has its place but it's for people who don't have a budget 780 makes a ton more sense unless you're gaming at 4k and you really need that extra frame buffer all right any interesting android apps you'd recommend also moto x review is happening correct uh the moto x review is actually mostly shot we're going to finish it up on monday i really liked the moto x a lot actually i'm not going to switch to it though so um i guess i i'm still using the htc one moving forward i actually htc offered to send me finally because they said they were going to do this right when i got the sample an lte compatible one for for my network and i was like wait hold on don't send it because i'm using the moto x right now and i really like it and i might switch so i don't want you guys to like send me some phone that i then don't even use because part of the advantage for htc is i do genuinely like the phone i can use whatever phone i want really i can i'm even eligible for an upgrade so if i even wanted an apple phone now i could even go that route i use it because i love it and i think they've seen sales that have directly come from me so the last thing i want is for them to invest in sending me a new phone and for me to not even use it that's just stupid so that was but now i've decided and i definitely am going to stick with the one good guideline is well i don't want to take stuff from people for no reason that's just stupid um there's that question again oh android apps uh check out apollo music player apollo music player is really good better better quality it's just better actually worse i like go sms pro a lot that's probably my favorite one um everyone is pissed because they were expecting it to be the titan by like 20 fps but it doesn't well you know what how could it have it has a smaller die area it's built on the same process technology i mean some of the stuff amd has done here is miraculous they've got a 512 bit memory interface that actually if i recall correctly takes up um oh crap i can't remember but the the actual die area that they're using for the memory interface the efficiency of it has been improved by something stupid like 40 like it's amazing how much more memory bandwidth they've gotten this card and it really is built for future gaming at 4k resolutions if you were to buy a future proof card today not a bad bet and like the idea that you can think aside the the singular word competitive idea that you brought up before actually comes back again because that stock it's ridiculous like if you compare price performance it's like what price to performance that bar graph looks real good in 290x's favor yeah all right what is the best 26 inch ips monitor i'm not aware of any 26 inch monitors that's kind of a weird size um but check out like the cheapo korean ones on ebay when he's going at that price yeah yeah at that price points um is the 780ti we don't know stop watching your gpu reviews because of overclocking that should be a side note not the main bench that's fine then don't don't watch it unless you're interested in overclocking numbers or if you want the technology overview because we combine them now now we do the introduction for the product talking about all the technology what's new what's different about it and then performance numbers were only like one quarter of the video so there and like that's that's cool you can go read or watch the 150 other reviews that are all identical that all have stock numbers so that's that's fine we're doing things differently because we want to be a destination for people who do overclock their cards and who do want to know what the overclocking numbers look like and yes there's there's a little bit of silicon lottery going on of course there's that and but we've said when that's actually been a big thing we had one card that did not overclock well and every single time that it was in the results of a video we said by the way our 70 870 is a dog overclocker yeah so we we say it we know these things all right you should get correct yeah crushers those are the ones that i'm going to pick up just for lulz oh god mac pro entering apple into the very high end sff market go um i think not at all i mean mac pro is is a professional appliance that's what it is it's not a general purpose pc they have very they have very clearly positioned it that way this is a video editing workstation appliance that sits next to a video editing workstation or 3d rendering workstation it doesn't even come with anything other than fire gl cards like it's not it's i mean and i don't i don't personally feel like the mac pro is a great implementation it's only got one expansion slot internally it is pci express and it'll do one gigabyte per second reads and writes and whatever else these are all good things but it doesn't have the flexibility that we require as as a video production outfit and um i don't know i just they've lost so much sex appeal with final cut over the last few years that i'll be interested to see if they can gain it back that's true it's really and they talk a lot about how quiet it is but that thing is going to be a hairdryer when it's actually under any kind of load they're only quoting idle numbers so let's see really yeah i didn't even look into that that's funny um what do you expect you know what we're kind of getting away from 290 how good will the 290x work as an editor's card with no idea no idea man amd is not allowing reference coolers till 2014 well i i heard that we'll at least have cards before then uh any interesting and okay we already saw that um a direct cu2 and winforce 290x would be nice yeah i'll reach out to gigabyte as well 2014 is like really soon yeah that's like two months from now um how much do you think drivers will improve over time i don't know hard to say because we saw a big improvement last time but this is still gcn so it's not a completely new architecture i i do still actually expect pretty good performance increases though to be honest i just don't know how much so i i don't okay i think we might just have to blow through a few more topics here and it's already 6 30 and we got to pack up for our meetup tomorrow we like totally expected a super short stream and end up being longer than average yeah so okay there's uh there's a thing uh speaking of my mobile carrier bell they are now beginning to use account data to um they're now beginning to store account data such as your name uh websites you browse um all kinds of stuff and they're going to be using this to target advertising at you as well as using it to sell hopefully anonymously to other companies um and this this sort of ties in nicely to this right here so this is the rally.stopwatchingus.us and it's a rally against the nsa and it is you know what i actually had a better segue that i meant to do for this i was going to say but i don't mind because who cares and then i was going to wait for twitch chat to explode and say well we care if you care get off your ass. Speaking of getting off your ass they have an indiegogo campaign and this is the first time that i've seen something like this get backed by so many interesting people if you watch this video there's like a bunch of big names like it's not just a few people that decided to make a like like we are change level group like like i'm trying to think of the right name phone blocks or like yeah like some there we go it's it's not just a random group of people trying to rally behind something it's like a bunch of big names that could have reputations tarnished which you don't see that often it's usually yeah smaller groups and it's that makes it really interesting so particularly if you're an american um there's so the rally is going to be uh tomorrow actually in front of union station so if you're in washington dc uh might not be a bad idea to sign up to attend or you know tell some people who are in the area to attend if you can't make it there this is an important thing and privacy is eroding at an unbelievable rate actually pretty insanely fast the bell thing is a change to their terms of service that i wasn't notified about in any meaningful way it's like hidden away on their website and there's an opt out but i can only opt out of the targeted advertising i can't even opt out of them collecting the information all together so not giving me that kind of um that kind of freedom is very unsettling uh one thing to add before we move on if you want to support that campaign on the indiegogo side uh you can pick a few different things like you can have your donations go to sending more people there on buses yeah more computer commuter lanes or you can go towards like materials for signs or whatever yeah all right so the 5s and 5c touchscreens are evidently less accurate than the s3 so check this out guys so there's a study has found that the 5s and 5c are actually moving backwards in terms of touchscreen accuracy this is something that is very very important to me because i'm one of those people who actually goes for gold and tries to position the cursor in the middle of a typo and you know tries to correct stuff like that and i'm on an accurate touchscreen i'm pretty good and having an inaccuracy sort of ridden touchscreen is is not an appealing thing so check this out here is a heat map chart of where accuracy is within i believe it's one millimeter yeah yeah so it has within one millimeter yeah so iphone 5s is right here on the left iphone 5c is here on the left so they're clearly using some similarities there are some similarities between them and here's the galaxy s3 and i never had any kind of issue with this with my iphone 4 so it looks like this is a bit of a new thing yeah and i read in the comments a lot a lot of people are talking about how it's it's not really a thing on the iphone 4 so it's actually gone backwards um reading in the comments people had tried the new one and had their old one and specifically could tell as you can see on that graphic right there sorry let me bring this back sorry the the q and the p are actually pretty much covered in red and what that means is they're not accurate to within one millimeter so which is important if you're touch typing on your smartphone so people notice that going from the iphone 4 iphone 4s to this that trying to type cues and peas they're missing a lot speaking of touch typing on your smartphone did we do that topic yet what the uh the ruling that's been upheld no oh wow okay we got to do that all right let's launch right into that this is an article on daily tech that you need to go read go go read it it was about a week ago actually that this was posted but apple's patent on touch typing multi-touch upheld will allow a ban on most android devices now what the article goes on to say is that there is a specific um hold on a second there is a specificity to the apple patent that pertains to capacitive touch screens so while multi-touch gestures that for example don't require the user to draw an exactly horizontal or exactly vertical line but can instead draw a diagonal and touch typing on a keyboard on a touch screen while these things existed they didn't exist on capacitive screens yet which leads us to this little clip right here hopefully you guys have audio and we have invented a new technology called multi-touch which is phenomenal it works like magic you don't need a stylus it's far more accurate than any touch display that's ever been shipped it ignores unintended touches it's super smart you can do multi-finger gestures on it so that boy have we patented it is what mr jobs had to say about the technology built into the original iphone boy did we patent it and they did so we could be looking at a situation okay so so the article goes on to say in the unlikely event that this could be overturned um maybe things would be okay but there's a very good chance and you can see there's some graphics here that android makers might have to look at some other solutions such as hardware keyboards going to the internet keyboards going back to that or figuring out some other way to implement uh wow what a disaster this is potentially ridiculous so there are a couple guys that are safe number one is microsoft and nokia they're safe because of the way that apple and microsoft have worked together on cross-licensing patents in the past and so windows phone who are we looking at a potential uh potentially huge ruling for windows phone who wasn't even involved in the decision no but they could be one of the biggest beneficiaries of this oh yeah and then the other one that's safe is htc so htc's whole thing with their here's to change campaign giveaway that we did on the linus tech tips channel that's actually still running we've had a few good video submissions to win an htc one but i haven't seen it that many yet so there's still very good chances to win that one give us your video entries the details are on the linus tech tips youtube channel front page it's the first video that plays but um htc's whole thing is like we're all about change we're all about innovation they own a lot of patents with respect to smartphones and the technology inside them and they were one of the ones that was locked in legal battles constantly with apple until a couple of years ago when both apple and htc basically just said okay okay fine like we're done i think from apple's perspective they didn't really see htc as much of a threat and from htc's perspective they could have gone out of business fighting legal wars with apple at that point and they basically went look let's just call a 10 a 10 year truce no more no more patent nonsense between our two companies so htc might be one of the only android handset makers not affected by this ruling so guys go read the article it's fantastic and also terrifying and if you're you know if a lot of the rulings in the past haven't seemed to affect anything like right here are a few samsung devices that have already been banned for sale in the u.s. that they never really mattered because they were banned for sale at a time when they weren't really relevant anymore and samsung's been pretty pretty good about refreshing their products quickly enough that bans don't seem to really affect them too much yeah so don't think it can't happen product bans happen just because it hasn't affected the u.s. much i mean we've even seen it in the it industry swift tech couldn't sell the h220 due to a patent dispute with ace tech um so still available in canada so this is a very regional thing but we might see uh some shifts even from guys like samsung to a windows os or whoo wow anyway big big big news right there right there elon musk thinks that hydrogen cars are to paraphrase bullshit so this was an article on the verge i actually found this whole article just absolutely hilarious it was awesome uh so basically to applause he kind of goes well look the the ideal the ideal fuel cells would have less range and wouldn't be as optimal from a weight to performance perspective as current lithium ion technology and you'd be building an entirely new infrastructure when the electrical grid is already there like it's there the power lines they're there it's like all of his points are just awesome because it's just like what are you guys doing it's like yeah tesla's gonna be a thing deal with it he should just put on sunglasses and just like say that rather than i mean i'm it's great that he made it's great it's great that he had you know a number of reasonable arguments about it but he could have just as easily gone all meme on us and just been like deal with it um so i guess that's pretty much it if i was buying a car and tesla was or the model s or some kind of model that they had was a lot cheaper i really don't think i'd be considering a car that burns hydrocarbons anymore if if if teslas were affordable yeah are you kidding me well i'd be all over that i mean there is the so so-called convenience of being able to fill up your car once every however long and just drive it for until it's empty and i think that he can be a little bit idealistic sometimes it's like well you know it burns hydrocarbons you know what a lot of the world burns hydrocarbons to make electricity man so calm yourself down for a second here but you know in countries like canada where we're predominantly hydro powered yay it's fantastic and you're definitely right about all of that but just like also just everything else in a tesla that's super good i hope they make like yeah like the safety oh i hope they make like economy tesla yeah that would actually be really cool like tesla light or like tesla gt or no that gt would probably be good anyway i think we're pretty much done here guys thank you very much for tuning into the wan show i know it's an extremely long show and we don't really cover that much but we we appreciate you guys tuning in do you have any exciting forum news other than the new theme change um we've got a few things actually one there is a build blogs of the week this time we're just having some serious troubles with the doc so i don't know maybe i'll cover the after party maybe i'll cover that in the after party so there's an unofficial after party that sometimes i drop in on and raise my dongers and uh but it's on it's on it's on luke's channel so it's luke underscore lafr which for whatever reason he thinks it's okay to leverage his position here at linus media group for personal gain and to uh to drive viewership over to his personal channel do you know what i'm doing with the income from that channel personal gain i actually don't know i'm thinking but i heard that it was at least 30 dollars so far once we struggle our way and like climb to the mountain that is 100 dollars of revenue on that twitch channel what i'm going to be doing is taking that revenue check and just buying stuff for the crazy giveaways that we do speaking of which tonight we're doing more giveaways like 15 codes or something like that we usually do an insane amount fridays are our main day so we're going to give away a crazy amount um one of which i think is going to be hearthstone i've heard rumors from my guys that there's a hearthstone key in there rumors i know there's a payday 2 key in there i know there's a bunch of other big keys in there um but my stream aside the folding team is doing pretty ridiculous actually we're currently in eighth position for active folders and we're currently in 76th position overall ever world that's unbelievable obscene like that's unbelievable holy crap boink is doing well as well we are currently 10th in canada and 287th in the world which is actually quite good and yeah like i said there is going to be a build logs a week it'll be in the doc when it's posted on the forum and it will be in the after party so to be clear guys i'm not jelly like everyone's social media accounts here at linus media group do belong to them so you know ezl's twitter is his twitter luke's twitter is his twitter if luke gets a job at newegg tv i won't be happy about it in fact your non-compete says that you won't do that actually it says that i can but i just have to quit here first which makes sense but i won't but i mean i like to think we're a pretty tightly knit team here i believe that these guys should be able to do their own things i'm not that interested in we've discussed it i mean he pushed me really hard to do more game streaming to do after party to do all these things and it's not in the linus media group business model to chase the game streaming thing so we discussed it he's got his own game streaming channel if you know if he's got a social media following there and that works out really well for him and he does whatever he wants to do with that i think that's fantastic and there's no there's i was joking before there's no there's no weirdness about it so you know if these guys if you want to follow people at linus media group on twitter know that you're interacting with them personally and that this is not a company initiative that we're uh that we're doing so people have people have said that my certain tweets have been paid off before because i seem to recommend the same things a lot i don't pay you to tweet because i use the same things a lot and i like them like someone's like oh you must get paid off by ducky and i'm like i recommend ducky and filco in the exact same line every single time anyone has ever asked me about a keyboard what are you saying like what do you want i buy this stuff i recommend it i like these keyboards that's life it's ridiculous like i'm sorry i'm sorry uh you know what i'm gonna save this for next week because i haven't tried it yet yeah all right peace out guys thank you for watching the land show and we'll see you again next week same bat time same bat channel bye bye