 Welcome to the WAN Show! We're getting technical and we're getting sweaty apparently, because like, if I gave you a bear hug right now, like, it would be gross. You know, it would be gross, but I'm so used to it from sports that it's like, it's only a little bit gross. Right, I guess in the shower when you guys hug each other, you're wet from the shower. Wow! You know, I never- Like a minute in. I never- I don't think we're a minute in. I cut into the chase. I never actually played a sport that involved, um, like- Neither did I. Like, uh, group showers. Neither did I. Oh, I mean, much to my- much to my regret, because- Actually, I guess- Yeah, I did. Football. You played football! Well, actually, football didn't out of all- No way! Yeah. How does football not involve group showers? It was, uh, it was hockey. Football is all about, like, the bum slapping in the showers and stuff, is my understanding. Everyone drove home sweaty. Everybody. Hmm. Like, you pretty much never had locker rooms. Interesting. Because I didn't play school football. Right, okay. And we're in Canada. Right, where football is, like, not a thing. Not nearly as big. Alright, so things that are things! We have a great WAN show for you guys this week. John Carmack joins Oculus as CTO. But remains working for id Software. Okay, so it's- he hasn't completely gone off his tree, but he's, uh- Nope. He's evidently making a major bet on VR and Oculus in particular, which is gotta be really exciting for them, especially after the tragedy recently. Yeah. Where one of their co-founders was, uh, was killed in an accident. So, uh, that's, uh, that's kind of a big deal. Uh, lab-grown burger costs $300,000, tastes gross, apparently. Um, the Jobs movie has been, uh, sort of critically- The- blown up a little bit. Waz, who is- is outspoken on everything and very interesting to listen to. The important Steve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, has come out and said that a- a very main particular scene in the movie just didn't happen at all. And it's- he's not too worried that it didn't happen because obviously certain- Okay, you're telling them too much about it. This is the pre thing. Okay, okay. Hit it! Okay. Okay. Really? You've got- oh, you've gotta be kidding me. Okay, well, I blamed- I blamed Diesel for this. Hit it! Uh- Ad Media File. Okay. Without further ado, it's August 9th, 2013, and I don't have my headphones. Yes! The green machine is attached to my neck, which will obviously contribute to the sweatiness. Our special guest today, if you guys don't already know, if you didn't see the YouTube announcement, is the one and only Yosh from Fractal. Yosh? Yes, Yosh. Well, he works for a Swedish company. But he's not. But he's not Swedish. No, he's about his American- I just found out he lives in Iowa. Yeah. Yeah. You just found that out? I had no idea he lives in- I knew he was somewhere east of here. That's not really saying a whole lot. I knew- You live in like that area. It's over there. Well, no, I knew that he was on the continent of North America. I knew he was south of the 49th parallel, and I knew he was east of here. These are all the things I knew. At any rate, Josh is one of our favorite industry affiliates. He's the former CEO and president and whatever he wants to call himself of Biohazard Computers, which was a boutique system builder that actually did some really crazy stuff. I mean, when we talk about boutique system builders, we're talking paint jobs, we're talking water cooling, we're talking all kinds of cool stuff. Yeah, no, Josh was much crazier than that. Phase change, all that kinds of awesome, awesome, awesome stuff. So, should we jump right into it? What do you want to hit first? We have so many great topics today. We can jump right into the top of the list if you want to talk about cellular companies in Canada. Did you put things in order this week? A little bit. Because I'll be kind of impressed if you manage to do that. It has an interesting flow where it mixes it up. So, if people want to see a range of stuff, give them a range of stuff. Cellular companies in Canada are crying foul about the Canadian government facilitating the entry of Verizon Wireless into Canada. Now, this is actually kind of funny. The source for this one, or at least where I first saw it, was from the NCIX forum. So, I guess I better give Turwax over there, who I've actually had a number of exchanges with over the years. He's got like 5,000 posts on there. The credit for this one, and I want you guys to watch this video. It's not that long. Canadians deserve a level playing field. Fair for Canada. This is the closest that publicly I've ever seen the main telcos here in Canada collaborate. So, Bell Rogers and TELUS are like, this should give some idea how like sleeping together they all are. Because it didn't take long to get a nice, schmexy looking little website about how it's totally unfair to allow another wireless player in. And I just want you guys to watch this. I want to know if you can relate to this. Tell me if the telcos, we're going to do a Twitter blitz after this, guys. Tell me if the telcos in your country are this friggin' brutal. Hi Michelle. Kick us off here. Canada should get the same technology that the big cities do. That way, my neighbors can be as productive and as plugged in as people in any other part of the country. It makes me proud. It's a very Canadian thing. But now, our government is allowing a giant US cell phone company to buy up small Canadian operators that cell phone companies like mine aren't allowed to buy. Since we can't bid, they'll likely even get a huge discount on the price. Effectively, at Canadian taxpayers' expense. But it gets better. Better for them. Even though this company is four times as big as all of Canada's cell phone companies combined, they're basically getting a huge discount to enter Canada. Will they care about employment in Canada? I think you know the answer. That's not fair for Canadians. Will this giant US company virtually ignore small communities like mine and focus on big cities? It makes me angry that the government is selling us out. You know, we teach our kids to play fair. That's about as Canadian as it gets. So why is our government giving a giant US corporation special treatment? That's not real competition. It doesn't sound fair for Canadians. Ottawa should do something about the loopholes fast. It doesn't just hurt me like it does in personal country. Holy crap. I don't think I made it all the way through last time either, because that thing is two minutes of the most inane drivel I think I have ever seen in my life. It's this big old sob story about like mega corporation. I'm sorry, Verizon Wireless is only four times your size, and you're kind of sitting here going boo hoo hoo, poor me. Certain things that I like in there are just things that are completely blatantly wrong, where they're like small communities should be able to have all the technologies that big communities have. My grandpa lives in near Winnipeg, rural farmland area. Cannot get anything other than like dead slow dial-up. There goes my phone again. And like it sucks. He doesn't want it to be that slow. He's an older guy and won't use the internet that much. But when it takes him a few minutes to load a basic web page, and when I can't show him anything that we make because it's on YouTube and that's too much for dial-up, it's kind of messed up. So that's just blatantly wrong. And then the whole fair play thing, fair for Canadians, it's already not fair for Canadians. We pay way too much. It's fair for you, jerk. It's not fair for us. I mean, the thing that bothers me about this is all you need to know about someone's business model and someone's profitability, you can know everything you need to know about a company without even looking at a public company's financials. If the local sports arena is called the Rogers Arena, then Rogers had way too much money left on their balance sheet, knows they're going to have way too much money left on their balance sheet for the foreseeable future, and needs a major spend that they can just kind of, well, justify somehow. Because naming sports arenas is a terrible, terrible, terrible ROI. And it's basically just a way to burn money so that it kind of goes away quietly. That should be all you need to know about how much of that money could have been spent on the infrastructure that would bring, oh, I don't know, higher speed internet connections, better cell phone reception, more advanced technologies, whatever else the case may be, or improving customer service, which quite frankly, out of all of them, the ones I've had the best experience with, at least on the cell phone side, has been Bell and Rogers. TELUS is absolutely terrible. And speaking to former TELUS employees, the amount of bureaucracy and BS that goes on there, do you remember the story I told you? The screwdriver story. The screwdriver story. How many people does it take to put a piece of RAM in a server at TELUS? You said, I think it was four, right? It was, I believe it was three. Three, okay. Well, it was the one guy who wanted it done, who was my buddy. Yeah, yeah. And then it was someone to open the case, someone to install the RAM, and then... Was it, I thought it was one person to slide it out, one person to open it, one person to put the RAM in, one person to close it, one person to close it. No, no, no, that was me joking about it. Oh, okay. No, the third guy had to supervise. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, so the third guy was a supervisor, and I'm sitting here going, you know what? Boo frigging who? You don't have enough money, maybe stop wasting it on things like that. So let's go to the Twitter boards and let you guys give us your take on the whole, how bad would you feel for your incumbent telcos if your government basically stepped in and said, well, hold on a second, let's try to actually improve the quality of service, whether the improvement in quality of service is for urban areas, and I do understand their point, where yeah, Verizon's gonna come in and they're gonna go after the biggest whack load of customers. Of course. But you know what, you guys? What you could do is you could spend some of the money that you have from your current customers, because you know what's coming, upgrading your infrastructure and accessing the customers Verizon can't touch for now. Make it hard for them. Don't make a whiny video, be aggressive. Give us the wireless rates that we know that you can. To clear some things up, the auction that they're talking about, the unfairness that they're talking about is for the 700 megahertz spectrum. New entrants, so say Verizon, are able to bid for two of the four blocks of the new spectrum. They're like allowed to bid for two of them. And incumbents or current ones are only allowed to bid for one. Each group that's already here is only allowed to bid on one. Verizon would be allowed to bid on two. That's what they're so mad about. They're so mad about it. And they're butt hurt because they're not allowed to bid, because that's anti-competitive that we're not allowed to bid. What about all the little guys that you guys drove under by over bidding for any existing spectrum that has been up for auction over the last however many decades? It's been pretty much impossible. It's been impossible for anyone else to get involved unless it's mandated by law, such as that local cable company, Delta Cable, where Shaw is not allowed in that municipality for whatever reason. I'm not quite sure what it is, but the reality of it is these are the same things you guys are all complainy pants about that you have been doing to other companies for all of these years. So, there you go. That's what I had to say about it. All right, Twitter boards. Been on holiday for a week with no phone or internet. Hey, speaking of things that telcos need to get into the whatever century we're in about, the fact that you being on holiday, why is this all glitching out? That's kind of weird. Screen region, let's try that again. Add screen region. Roaming charges. If that's not a, you know. Archaic thing. Yeah. Like if that's not a bunch of like skeevy executives sitting around a table sort of behind closed doors, collaborating and colluding to keep rates as high as they possibly can. I don't know what is. JK, okay, you're gonna have to message us again when Josh is actually on. Our government does have a fiber initiative which all line providers have to be included in New Zealand and is pushing us forward. I got no problem with government mandated. Everyone gets to be involved. Yeah. It's pretty much like in the UK, all the infrastructure is based on BT. They own all the lines and dictate everything. And that's exactly how it is here. The guys who own the lines just call the shots and hopefully, you know, hopefully the move to wireless spectrum where instead of it just being like, oh, well, you know, you collaborated 100 years ago to build these phone lines, which has absolutely nothing to do with how the world works today. Therefore you own all of it and we can't do anything. With wireless, at least it can be controlled somewhat moving forward and there will be a balancing act. I mean, it's not like if Verizon comes in here and steals all the business. They won't. Which they can't because they don't even own enough spectrum to do it in the first place. And it's not like the government is gonna be like, yeah, you guys are never allowed to bid on spectrum ever again. It's just gonna be a balancing act in the future and they don't want it. No, they don't want that. And I guess the thing that bothers me most about it is the three of them are like getting in together to band up about it because Verizon might not come in and play their game. What I don't like is that it's not fair for Canadians. It's not fair for Canadians. And they're saying they're gonna take a massive amount of the jobs. They will take some of the jobs, but I guarantee you technicians are still gonna need to be up here and if technicians still need to be up here, offices still need to be up here. Yes. There will be jobs up here. You're not gonna be able to service Canada without employing any Canadians. That's actually not possible for an ISP. Anyway, so yeah, Brad seems to have the same sort of, wow, this is kind of weird. Okay, there we go. The same sort of negative feelings about Australia's telcos. Australia does have similar challenges to Canada, large landmass, small sort of dense population centers, but it still could be better. I would be very happy. There's no good data plans here. Top speeds are one megabit. Yep. Bring on the competition. The Canadian telcos need to man up indeed. August 9th, way to go. You did it again. And I'm in the Marit, I say boohoo, and I'm in the Maritimes. Indeed. You're brutal, dude. Okay, I know this is safe to click on. You guys may actually love this. Here, hold on. I'm gonna see if I can find one. There you go. So one of our viewers has acquired a Pikachu onesie. So go ahead and burn him on that as much as you want. That's awesome. But I think it's awesome. Do you think newer FX8350s will be worse overclockers now that the best chips are being badged as 9590s? That is actually a very good question. We should probably talk about that later. You wanna throw that on the dock while I continue the splits? Sound card for HD558. Anything from Asus' Zonar line would be a great option. You don't necessarily need one with a beefy amp because that is not a high impedance pair of headphones. Perhaps they should pull their fingers out of their collective butts, I think is the word you were looking for, instead of complaining like spoiled kids. Yes, indeed. What are my opinions on the new LG G2? I don't know. I asked for an eval unit to check out and sort of nothing ever happened, so I don't really have much of an opinion. I'm looking for a beast card to hang any game. 780? Hard to go wrong with 780. However, one of our topics later on is the rumor that AMD's Hawaii series GPUs may be coming soon. So stay tuned for that. Was that an Aperture Science water bottle I saw you drinking from? Yes, indeed it was. Hydrogen monoxide containment unit, I think is the terminology we're looking for, not water bottle. So there you go. Let's see if we've got anything more. Little bit more on the Twitter blitz. 4K content needs at least 20 megabit per second down. I'm all for more competition. Help us get closer to the awesome I want. Indeed. Someone says refresh XSplit. And what is that blue slash green light on the vengeance box behind Slick? I got no idea. Yeah, I don't know. All right, 4570S versus 8350. Those are very different chips. The 4570S is super power efficient and the FX8350 is anything but. Super not. Yeah, like super like power. Yeah, like just. Super power man. Like pedal to the metal and efficiency to the winds. So I guess decide what you want and then buy that. What do you think of Delidio? What do you think of Delidio chips? I think it's kind of risky. Cool though. Seriously, America has this stuff too. Comcast pretty much has its own region. While Verizon doesn't come into my region. It's that whole territorial monopoly things. You know what? I would love to see guys from the States coming up to Canada and sort of pooping all over the collusion that's going on here. And I'd love to see guys from Canada go down to the States and poop all over the collusion there. Would absolutely love to see it because it's needed. And I think eventually they're all going to just collude with all of each other. But at least initially we might see some improvements which will maybe get us a little bit caught up in terms of. Them fighting for any amount of time will probably help. Yes. You'll at least be able to sign up for like some kind of ridiculous deal. And then. Trying to hold on to and grandfather in forever. Yes, that is the secret. I mean, honestly, OK, I'm putting on my old NCI hex hat for a bit. When New Egg launched in Canada, like we were pooping bricks. Like leading up to that launch. Every, every day was another conversation about sort of, you know, what are they going to do to address sort of the differences in the Canadian market? Because we knew things they didn't. In fact, NCI X still knows a whole lot of things. I can look at New Eggs offering and I can go, yeah, they clearly haven't figured this out yet about the way business works in Canada. And anyway, we were we were pooping bricks and that was scary. And when when New Egg launched in Canada, NCI X countered with one of the most aggressive sales in its history as a company. And customers don't always understand how much it costs to put on a sale because it wasn't Black Friday. It wasn't Boxing Day. There weren't manufacturer rebates that we were able to leverage. It was just, OK, well, here's all of our money. Just here you go, customers. We I guess we don't need this anymore. And and then New Eggs, a grand opening sale was pathetic. It was like some outdated Phenom was like I remember yours. The highlight. I took some of that NCI X money. Yeah, I bet you that was a crazy sale. I took a lot. I think I built two computers for other people out of that sale and took some stuff for myself. Yeah, it was not even kidding. Oh, it was like bat crap crazy. So I don't remember where I was going with that. But yeah. Why don't we move on to our next topic, shall we? What do you think we should do next? Maybe maybe a tech topic. Sure. I like that screen one if you want to talk to you because we should be getting Josh on here soon. Yeah, let's get Josh going soon. Where is the screen one Amazon working on paper white? Oh, OK, that's your topic. So you better you better cover that one. All right. So Amazon is working on a new screen technology. This is an article from quartz.com qz.com. Go ahead. So basically, they're going to be putting LEDs horizontally along the panel and then it'll bounce light along the hole. What do they call it? A nano imprinted light guide. It'll bounce it all the way across and that will make the light hit the screen and then reflect out towards you. Instead of the light shining directly at you, it'll be reflection, which is more realistic when looking at paper books. And it's supposed to be a huge improvement, make a lot better experience for the user, much less eye strain when you're reading for a long period of time. And just yeah, it's very interesting technology. No one else has done it. And they're not going to compromise on things like color depth and resolution or anything like that. So this is so we're still using a traditional LCD panel. Actually, this is something that a lot of people get confused about. Should I buy an LCD or an LED? They're the same thing. It's the backlighting that changes. A liquid crystal display is available in a wide variety of different forms and it's the most common flat panel display type. Anything from your old calculator uses an LCD display. It's monochrome. It has no backlight. Backlight, about to talk about that in a moment. Anything up to even the LCDs you might find in a rear projection TV a while ago back when the larger LCD panels were too expensive to manufacture. So they would make small ones and then blow a massive backlight through them to project onto a screen or something like an LCD panel that you might find at your typical computer, which would typically have cold cathode lights behind it, fluorescent lighting, and now has moved to LED. So the LCD panel itself is an image that doesn't inherently emit any light. That's where OLED is different because it emits its own light. You have to put some kind of a light source behind it. So in this way, they're not actually putting it necessarily. They can use that same LCD panel tech. To reflect light instead of shine light out from behind it. So it's supposed to make it a much better experience. It's called Light Guide. They're called, well, the technology is called Light Guide. Their screen is going to be called Paper White. And Amazon has recently acquired a company that's working on tablets. So people are thinking that instead of just making e-readers, Amazon is going to take this tech and make a tablet. And there's a lot behind this and it's in this quartz web page, which will be on the dock, which we will upload with the live stream later on. Fascinating. So Amazon is realizing that e-readers have gone down. I think it's like 12% in the past little while. It's so dead. Yeah. Come on. So Amazon is trying to respond to that by making a tablet, which has gone up. I think it's like 78% in the last year or something like that. Yeah, it's ludicrous. I was looking at them. Did Diesel send you the same article that was looking at, I think, smartphone shipments and tablet shipments? Oh, it's ridiculous. You're kind of looking at the numbers going, how many hundreds of millions of them? Does everyone not have one yet at this point? Yeah. But there you go. Evidently not. This actually ties into one of our other news articles, which is maybe the last one we'll do before we get Josh to join us. And that is the rumor that Amazon is working on a game console. So an Android-based game console. This isn't in the dock. I don't know if you know about this. Not in the dock at all. Yeah, I know. Whatever. So it's going to be... So it would go head to head with something like the Ouya, which I think everyone's kind of in agreement on was kind of a failure. Things have changed since it got released, and they've made improvements, but it's still... And this is the danger of kickstarting something based on specs that are current, and then how long it takes to really bring a product to market. I mean, something like Nvidia Shield. If Nvidia were to wait, like if they had two business units internally, Tegra and Shield, and Shield wasn't allowed to touch Tegra technology until it was released publicly. Shield would be months away, because it takes so long to bring an actual finished product to market. That's why someone like Ouya never stood a chance, because they're going to be working with off-the-shelf components rather than working with what's coming next. So Ouya is sort of a bad example, because I think it just never really stood a chance. But with someone with the clout of Amazon banking on this whole Android console thing, with someone with the clout of Nvidia banking on this whole Android console concept thing with Shield, which by the way, our Shield is coming. Coming on the way. I haven't seen tracking yet, but it's like confirmed. It's at least on the way. Yep. This is interesting, because more game developers are going to come back on this, because there's Shield. People are going to want to be making games for Android because of Shield. And then when Amazon steps behind something like this, people are going to want to be making Android games because of Amazon's console. So one of the problems with Ouya is everyone went emulators, and then kind of stopped. Because everyone just wanted emulators. Now people are going to be actually interested in developing games for this platform, which is really important. And of course, for those of you who are going to sort of attack him immediately for this, of course developers were already interested in Android games. But they were interested in touch screen Android games that were meant to be played on a tablet and a phone. Now Android is moving forward to what someone like Nvidia has been trying to get towards since the first Tegra. Which is we want console graphics on this thing, because we ultimately... And like this is the scar... This is the scariest part of it, is like how upset is Nvidia that AMD has every design win in the next-gen console? Maybe not at all. Because they're going for... Because the next-gen console is going to be a 10-year device. You look at how quickly Nvidia is ramping up the power, or not just Nvidia. I mean, I'm harping on Nvidia because they're kind of in the thick of all this. But you look at how quickly the GPU power on these mobile devices is ramping up. We could be looking at another few years, because we've already pretty much caught up with Tegra 4. We've caught up to current-gen console. Few more years, especially with yearly iterations, we could have caught up to the next-gen consoles. And with a device that doesn't have to have a Kinect plugged into it. And doesn't have to hook up to your TV. And doesn't have to do whatever you don't care about. And maybe doesn't have the same DRM restrictions that you can root and you can really get into. And you'll probably be able to record more easily and all this other kind of stuff. Is the console dead? That's actually a really interesting statement. And possible, but we won't know for years. But we won't know for a few years. Maybe guys like Microsoft are too hard to take down? I don't know. Microsoft's pretty big. They're pretty big, but they're falling pretty hard, pretty fast. Maybe that's why Microsoft is banking on things that aren't necessarily gaming. And maybe that's it. Football, all this other kind of stuff, TV. Convince me, Android can't handle things that aren't gaming. Is Zeus Cube anyone? I'm not playing this battle. You know, Google Chromecast anyone? Gen 5 of that thing? It's incredible. It's already incredible. With a Tegra 8 in it? I don't know. Anyway, good luck PS4. Good luck Xbox One. It was nice knowing you. Why don't we go ahead and fire up comms here and see if Josh Fractal has managed to get his headset figured out. Did you manage to do a test call with him? No. Oh boy. I was zoned out working on the dock when he first got it installed. And then I went to invite him and he had left at that point. That was my bad. All right. You know what, we should just like take a... Oh, yeah, Josh Fractal's online. All right. Well, here, why don't I let you kind of talk about that while I do a Twitter blitz here. And of course, they're on the same computer. So that... Oh, wow. Wow. Shots fired already. This guy is hard to... It's kind of hard to deal with having him on our live stream here. Let's see if I can get this to actually work. I'm not that impressed with XSplit today. I don't know what's going on here, but this is some serious business nonsense that is making my life difficult here. So we're going to go ahead and recapture that screen region that I've already captured a couple of times. And apparently... Oh, that's weird. Razer comms does not get picked up by XSplit, which actually makes sense because a game streamer who's using comms for voice communication wouldn't want their XSplit or their comm stuff all over the place. All right. Well, at any rate, let's go ahead and fire this baby up. All right, Josh. So just click the headset button in the top left-hand corner. There you go. Yo, Josh. How goes, bro? It's going. How you doing? Pretty good. I noticed that you jacked up my style with your guest picture here. And Josh is listening to the stream, not to Razer comms. So he needs to go ahead and turn off his stream so he can talk to us. I already did, man. So you think I jacked your style? You hardcore jacked my style. I was the first one to do a picture like this, obviously. Yeah, except for Steve Jobs. Yeah, except for that guy. But I mean, what did he ever do that was he probably wasn't the first one to do it anyway. Well, yeah, you never know. But I mean, he made it popular and sexy. I mean, and he right trademarked it. Yeah, I actually did worry about that. Like, I wondered if it was OK for me to take a picture of myself being all like glasses and Maybe like the particular finger orientation made it a curve design that they could patent. Yeah, I think your pinch is in your chin in that one. I'm not quite sure, though. So how are you? How's how's Fractal? How's business? How's the PC industry? And how is it? Do you cry yourself to sleep at night because you don't still run your own company? Biohazard, I think it was called. Oh, man, we're starting quick, aren't we? First of all, I guess I'd like to be the cool one and say happy birthday to FatalFlex. They've been posting over there in the comments. So can you guys give them a shout out for me real quick? Shout out. Happy birthday. See, there we go. So, no, work. Work has been good. Work has been busy. I just got back from Computex where we partied it out for a little while. I mean, worked very hard. And then, you know, we got. Oh, man, it's just if it's not one thing, it's another. But it's going good. It's good. It's good. Yeah, you guys have done some LAN presence recently. Oh, so for those of you who don't know, this is Josh from Fractal Design, formerly of Biohazard Computers. He is an enthusiast at heart. This guy has done more hardcore stuff with PCs than I have done. That is for certain. And he works as the what's your title like lap dog to the president of Fractal or something like that, North America? Well, it was going to be just taller than Linus, but that didn't really narrow it down at all. I mean, that's a pretty broad category. So, yeah, VP of Marketing for North America. That would be my official title. All right. So do you want to talk fractal stuff first or do you want to just kind of jump into some of the I know there was that one topic that you were chopping at the bit to talk to us about. Do you want to get right into that? Yeah, it just depends. Do you have a seven second delay? You might want that. Wait, what? It's something delay so that you can bleep out swear words. Geez. Come on. It's OK. Oh, man. Let's just let's just let's just do this thing. All right. All right. So this I said I sent this to Josh and I got back an email like what is that like four in the morning your time? Yeah, it's about four in the morning. Yeah, which was. Yeah, that's perfect. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm so excited. Slick wasn't CC'd on the email. So here we go. There's an Indiegogo on that is must be the stupidest thing that I've ever seen on the internet. This video thumbnail right here should probably tell you pretty much everything you need to know about this Indiegogo, which is basically like two nerds and guys, you know, no disrespect or anything, but your two nerds sitting on chairs in the middle of a yard. And I'm just going to skim through a little bit of this Indiegogo. And then we are just going to blast this thing between me, Josh and Slick. I don't think they're going to have any anus left. Careful wording, man. Let me see if I have this written down. You guys have a three point eight gigahertz overclocked six core I seven processor, six gigabyte video card, thirty two gigabytes of RAM, all booting from a solid state drive. I mean, this would normally resale from about three to four thousand dollars if you could even find it. But if you could find it. Oh, man, I got I'm starting early here. Originally, we're going to go cheaper than that. The big manufacturers are hard to deal with. I'm fighting back the rage right now. The machine we wanted to build. So don't you think this could lead to awkward conversations with big industry producers? I mean, you're undercutting their prices quite a bit. Awkward conversations like how overpriced their computers are. We're OK with that conversation. Right. Well, then I'm just trying to make sure you guys aren't getting in over your head. I mean, there's a lot of big dogs out there. I think we've made our purpose clear. Right. If this project gets off the ground, then we've essentially declared war on all companies that make gaming computers. And we're OK with that. Unlike most wars where it's a win lose, we're totally OK with either outcome. On one hand, we make super awesome computers specifically for gamers. On the other hand, we force the big companies to bring their prices down. Anyway, so basically the summary, guys, is that these guys have an Indiegogo. Actually, here, I'm going to go back to the beginning of the video. So they've actually got four thousand contributors. They're basically saying that for four thousand dollars worth of contributions, they have twelve contributors. So there's a comparison matrix down here that has alienware and what they charge for a system and build it yourself and what it costs. And they're in a vision gaming, which has a thirty nine seventy X, thirty two gigs of RAM, a seventy nine ninety, a five hundred and twelve gig SSD and a final price of a thousand dollars. I don't know if they're deluded or if they're just scammers. One thing I've wondered is I'm giving them as much insane degree of benefit that I can possibly imagine is that they have found someone online that is claiming to be a distributor of these things and is claiming if you buy enough and pay us upfront, we will give you all of this for this price. So they decided to make an Indiegogo planning to do it without enough research, figure out that this person is a scammer. Tell me, Josh, as a boutique gaming system builder who, you know, really, you know, wasn't. Well, OK, OK. Two things, two things. Tell me this, Josh. How much margin did you make selling gaming PCs? Oh, hell, like four thousand percent, four thousand percent because I touched it. I mean, I had a picture of me on the side of it, which that I mean right there. That's just a bonus. You know, it's a work of art. But yeah, the thing is, like, you got to figure, you know, I was definitely a high end boutique. So our stuff was, you know, very expensive. Our average box was like eight to twelve K. So we had sizable, sizable margin and we were still at like. 30, 40 percent like above hardware, but you also got to realize when you're going into that level of boutique, the amount of work that goes into your overclocking it, your stress testing it. It's like that's, you know, the labor comes into it. Yes. And so and so hold on. I'm not talking gross margins. I want to hear net margins after you pay yourself labor, which probably isn't for that great of a salary. Oh, I obviously I was worth so much more. That's why I moved on to modeling. But, you know, after that dried up, I came back to tech. You know, so I would say, you know, at the end of the day, the problem was to is, you know, I own the company. So I started myself. Right. So I was probably maybe between 10 and 15 percent. Ten and 15 percent sounds about right, which is not big margin. And that's a boutique. So to put that in perspective, someone like an NCIX might be making about half of that. So for those of you watching right now who think there's like massive margin in gaming computers, there is. But it isn't at the retailer level. It isn't at the distributor level. And it's not at the system builder level. It is at the manufacturing level. Guys like a sues guys like Intel. These are public companies. All you have to do is look at their financials. You know how much they're making on it. That means that if something costs a thousand dollars to the end user and we know that the distributor price for it is, you know, nine hundred and fifty dollars, the retailer and the distributor didn't make that much on it. So, Josh, tell me this. When you were a boutique builder building systems that might have cost thousands of dollars if you could even find them. How much did it cost you to buy an extreme edition? Well, let's see here. It was pretty straightforward because Intel locks their pricing at per thousand unit orders, right? I mean, it's like the way that breaks down is like when a, you know, extreme edition came out back then, you know, they're a thousand bucks and it's like, you know, nine hundred and ninety nine. Yeah. And it was like that's per thousand CPUs. And I think people have this unrealistic view of, you know, how much business lot of system builders are doing. It's like a huge boutique system builder may be doing like between two and four hundred systems a month. Yeah. And you know, it's a kill me. It's like people think you're getting like all this hardware for dirt cheap and we'd always get these things like, I want an extreme edition. I want this. I want that. I want this. But I want it for like half a retail because I know you guys get it cheap. I'm like, no more than I do, man, because certainly not getting it cheap. And that's why we went that route is like to make any margin on it. You know, you had to put some sort of spin on it. You had to do like overclocking liquid and stuff like that that people weren't doing. And, you know, people wonder, oh, how come there's always bloatware and crapware on PCs? That's where Dell and HP and the big guys made all their money. That was all subsidized. Like they were selling half the time the hardware nearly at a loss making up the money on like, you know, Samantha kicking them 20 bucks per system or shipping or the other little things that they could do that really help that. Or, you know, even things like office trials that ship on your computer as enthusiasts. We kind of look at that and we go as if I'm going to activate it. But someone like my mother might actually do that. And that's where the margin on that PC through an affiliate code of all things. Like even someone like Acer has to make money through like an affiliate program for Microsoft Office on the computer that they ship to you. Yeah. Well, it just it drives me nuts that you're like, so these guys are obviously blatant idiots. I mean, it's either. So first of all, let's just start poking holes in this. I don't even know where to start because there's so much crap. It's insane. Like, OK, first of all, you know, we found a fine folks we save. She that's a unique business model that I don't know. Walmart and everybody else has had since the beginning of time. Yeah, New Egg New Egg never figured that out about buying in bulk and getting processors for cheaper. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, I'm glad you guys cracked this one and no one else has been able to figure it out. And then second of all, it's like we started looking we got these contacts in the industry. It's like, oh, that inside track that you developed after a week and a half on Craigslist. You know, I don't know exactly where they think they got all this information. And then the other thing is it's like if we can crowdfund this, if we can all order these motherboards and these video cards, it's like, OK, what motherboard am I getting? You know, it's like, you know, OK, what chipset, what manufacturer? I think that's the least of the holes in this. Oh, yeah, it's a big hole, though. But yeah, I agree. Yeah. And here's the other thing. So, OK, like another reason why, you know, any system builder has to make margin on it's like who's going to support the damn thing? You know, it looks to me. I'm going to give them the benefit of the boat, the benefit of the doubt. I think that they're not scammers. I think that they're morons. And what they think is that if they get because look, they're asking for a half a million dollar goal and their campaign only receive funds, receives funds if they reach it by the deadline. So it's not one of those blatant scam ones where they're like, yeah, we're going to keep the money regardless. So I think that they naively think that if they manage to put together five hundred systems as a single order, that they'll be able to go to someone like Intel or EVGA or ASUS or whoever else and say, hey, we're big shots, drop your pants in terms of pricing for us. And, you know, a thousand dollars is our budget. And that's a lot of money because we're 15 and we're however old they are. And we think whatever they think that a thousand dollars is a lot of money. And they think that they can achieve it that way. And it's just not going to work. Josh has built systems for people on an insane level. You've built systems for people. I've built systems for people. None of us made a ton of money off it. The first thing that I say anytime someone posts on the forum that their plan is to start a business selling systems is do it for fun. It better be a side job and it better be entertaining. Yes. You know, the overhead in it is ridiculous. I mean, aside from, you know, just the standard business model, it's like keeping up with high end hardware. I mean, you know, working in front of the curve is, you know, ridiculous, time consuming. And yeah, you know, by the time like, you know, the extreme edition drops, if you're one of the high end guys, it's like you already work on the next thing. You know, it's like by the time it actually comes to market, like, okay, that's cool. And, you know, I have to agree. I don't think these guys are scammers merely because a scam would be put together a lot better than this. I mean, this is like so bad. It's got to be, you know, blatantly real. Like they genuinely think that they've stumbled across something and that they're going to be able to help people out. It's like, you know, a scam would be more believable. I think that's how a scam works. I wonder about the four people who have evidently bought it and they've got a lot of perks at different levels that I'm also looking at going like, are you guys bloody insane? Twenty five dollars for a 256 gig USB drive. Two hundred and fifty bucks for a Sony 990. That was the main one that got me. Yeah, it's like, okay. On what planet? When are you planning to ship these systems? Like if they're planning to ship the system in 2016 and they're just going to like troll eBay. Okay, they're planning to ship them in October. But if the plan was to like troll eBay two years from now and dig up like, you know, old extreme editions and stuff, this might be doable. Well, here's the thing. If they got all the parts right now, two guys, it would take them till October to build 500 system. I mean, they ever think about that. It's like, oh, we're going to hire some people to build all these by October. From watching the video, I think it's only the dude on the right who's building all of them, actually. Oh, yeah, the other guy's the brains behind it. There we go. That's a solid. That's a solid. And if you build 500 systems, I can tell you right now based on sort of an industry standard, two to three percent defective rate on any component within the first month, they are going to get back. So it compounds, right? Because you're building a system. So let's say a system has eight components in it for the sake of argument. That means that the chances of a system going defective within 30 days, unless they're burning them in, I mean, what about the power that it's going to consume to burn in all these systems? They're building 500 systems at the same time. Anyway, the chance that one of them will be defective within 30 days is probably at least three to five percent. If they're lucky as an inexperienced builder, never mind the ones that get damaged in shipping. Tell me, Josh, how much do RMA cost you as a system builder? Oh, yeah. Well, that's the thing. It's ridiculously expensive because say you sell the whole system. You know, the first thing is it's like, I think my video card that, okay, we'll see anybody. I don't know how to fix it. They want to send the whole system back. So, you know, assuming you can sidestep that, it's the other thing is that they're working with high end hardware. We had our largest failure rates on enthusiast classed hardware because it's pushed so high, you know, and you would think which they're probably thinking from a general mindset like, oh, this video card costs three times as much as a mainstream one, it's going to be perfect. It's like, no, it's probably going to be flaky, you know, and if you're going to take all these, you're going to overclock them. Okay, add to that. That's the other thing. You know, you're looking at your failure rate. I assume these guys are going to get in trying to overclock because they'll read on that on some forum somewhere. Hey, I can do that. All you do is push the voltage as high as it goes and then just crank up the multiplier. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I can rage on this all night. But you know, if you want to move on, I totally understand. I just saw it. I was like, really, really? This is and the scariest thing is that they've got backers already like, oh, I know. Is it like their moms? I'm hoping so. I'm hoping so. Could be considering the money will get back if they don't get it funded. It definitely could be. Another thing is I think, okay, the guy on the right, I watched the video. I didn't pay way too much attention, but the guy on the right, I believe is the technical guy and the guy on the left, I believe is the business guy. The guy on the left should be fired. Unfortunately, the guy on the left is going to have a really hard time finding a job. Anyone Google's this because his name is attached all over it. And the guy on the right is going to have a really hard time finding a job because I believe his name is attached to this as well. So if they try to look for a job in 22 days from now when this fails, it's going to be rough if anyone Google's their names. I think I think you're giving them too much credit for the size and momentum of this project. I don't think anyone will ever find it. My thing is I thought it was I it was better without the video. Like I watched the video and it got worse. Oh my God. I see what you're trying to do, but just fail left and right. I should tell them if they want to do a better pitch video next time, they should reach out to Linus Media Group. And we should just just for laws, we should just produce the stupidest possible pitch. You know what? That would be kind of a fun project like Indiegogo pitch video like fake sort of thing. I don't know if that's been overdone yet. Kind of sort of did it but not for jokes and not and it wasn't fake but for the Kickstarter one that we did. We did a Kickstarter. No, we didn't do I didn't get any of the money. We did a video that got posted on Kickstarter for that thing. Oh, for Omni Omni Omni that got posted on there. Okay, so that works really well. Okay. So anyway, there you go. You know what? Why don't we move into something else? I'd like to do one topic and in the meantime guys hit us on Twitter at Linus Tech and let us know what questions are comments you have for Josh. Remember former boutique system builder, current VP of marketing at Fractal Design for North America. And it was awesome. I'm sorry. What? And I'm always awesome and always awesome. And you're right. I googled his name and nothing came up. Yeah, that was that was not going to be a thing. All right, so Josh speaking of staying on the sort of bleeding edge of CPU technology and all that crazy stuff. Here's an article from WCCF Tech. I mean these guys I don't know the credibility is sort of I mean they had an article about I think it was like 12 or 16 core FX is not that long ago. And now there's one about how they're possibly abandoning FX processors AP use all the way. What's your take on this? You know, I don't know. I mean it gets to a point almost, you know, with the big guys that you believe anything. I mean things have gone back and forth so much. Yeah, I know AP use definitely a focus for AMD right now as far as like abandoning FX. I don't see it being that drastic. If you look at the benchmarks, you look at like a lot of the forms you would think that AMD is completely screwed because they don't win. All the benchmarks, but like when you look at, you know, the buying public like hey, that's a cheap processor. I'll get that for my next build. That'll do what I need to do. If I'm going to build, you know, my mother and internet and email machine, it's like, okay, fine. Yeah, I'm going to go for that. And I think that's called the Xbox one. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know a lot of stock in it. I mean, it's that's the other thing. Okay, like what are the odds that website would have the scoop effects? What was really happening? You know what? I'm going to play devil's advocate here and I'm going to say I think they're right because they've been falling behind. I mean performance per watt, Octoron walked in and destroyed everything. AMD owned fabs at the time. They owned the technology. They had some serious business. I don't know if you want to call it planning or luck or whatever word you want to use. But Intel was basically sitting on their butts and AMD came in and what their butts in the server space. They trickled that technology down to the desktop and kick some butt for a little while. Now they haven't done that in a long time. AMD is more focused on that mainstream consumer. And you look at what they see as the definition of an APU. According to AMD, core i3, core i5 and core i7 processors from Intel that have onboard HD graphics are APUs. So you look at Intel where they still have dominance when it comes to Xeon, when it comes to Extreme Edition, when it comes to workstation grade processors. They still have dominance there and they're barely paying any attention to it. For AMD is the overhead just too much at this point to even bother? Are they better off to just focus on the heterogeneous CPU architect or I guess I can't call it a CPU. But a heterogeneous architecture that uses a CPU and a graphics type of processing in order to achieve what it needs to do. And are they right to bank on that in the future? Because is it possible that a quad core CPU with a very powerful graphics processor on it would actually be able to outperform a more traditional six core or eight core CPU in the tasks that we need? I mean, Diesel the intern was complaining to me the other day that his workstation doesn't support quick sync because now that technology that uses Intel's onboard HD graphics to accelerate video encoding is starting to show up in the professional tools. And I'm like, I thought I built you the beastest machine with a six core Extreme Edition and all this RAM and a Quadro. And you want a friggin consumer grade device because we're moving towards that being more practical for the future. And it makes sense. And to be honest with them starting to rake in money on the console side, especially in the next upcoming months and still bleeding money. They released a statement recently about how they're going to be profitable soon. Yes, they said next quarter. Maybe dropping certain segments will help them be profitable soon. Well, you know, I think that part of it comes into the fact that like certain product wings are just marketing wings. You know, I mean, you look at Halo cards and stuff like that when you're looking at graphics. It's like Nvidia is not making their bank on Titans and 780s. It's amazing how many consumers think they are. But yeah, because it's like it costs five times as much as a consumer grade card or, you know, performance cards. Like, yeah, and you sell about what, five percent of what you sell in the mainstream. So, you know, five percent is very aggressive. Yeah. And the thing is, like, so if you're going into like the nuclear arms race of graphics, it makes sense because if you win that top rung, then you get every rung below it. So it's more of a marketing investment than anything else. And when you look at largely what the bread and butter, what AMD probably sells right now, yeah, it could make sense to, I guess, kill off the FX brand if they want to move more towards an APU, because it's also about application. Right. I mean, it's like if you say what has a faster zero to 60, you know, Ferrari or Ford F-150, everyone's going to say Ferrari. It's like, OK, now do the same thing on a muddy road. Which one has a faster zero to 60? So it's all about how you're tasking it. Like you said, with diesel working with video, it's like, OK, yeah, that might have more raw processing power. But for what I use it for, this works better for me. Yeah. Yeah. Although I'm trying to get away with throwing a Kepler GPU in a system because he's found a really cool plug-in for Premiere that uses CUDA to accelerate outputting H264 using the onboard encoder. But you know what he wants, right? He wants a Titan, doesn't he? And he wants both. He wants a Quadro and a Titan. Diesel, are you still here? Oh, no, he's not here today. He can use one for one thing and the other for the other thing. He wants two graphics cards. No. If he could do it. No, I don't even care. He's not getting two Titans in his workstation. No, he doesn't want two Titans. Oh, I know he wants the Quadro. Yeah, he wants the Quadro because he wants 10 bit color. And then he wants the Titan. He's not getting the Titan. He can have like a 770 or something. You're so cheap. I know I'm like the worst person ever. Freaking employees. It's like why do I even need them? Someone's got to make you look good. Someone's got to produce content while the emails come. All right, let's do a Twitter blitz here guys for Yosh. We're going to focus on the questions for Yosh. Look at that. You're holding our committee R2. It must be because of that pre-roll advertising you're running online as Tech Tips videos. No, it probably be something effective that we're doing. All right. So Greg Waar says going for the ArcMedia R2 air cooling build. Should I go for AF 140 fans instead of the stock fans? Great question. Josh go. Go for whatever you want. I mean it comes down to again, however, you're going to use it. I mean to think that we can make one fan that would be perfect for every solution. You could try. But you know, obviously we always have the aim towards silence and that's where a lot of our fans have come from. So if you're going for something with a more high end, if you want to do what you want to do, I mean that's my biggest thing. I'm not going to try and push into somebody into something they don't want. All right, fair enough. And you guys all know what I'll say by all the Noctua NFF 12s because I truly believe it is the one size fits all. And that's why I stopped talking because I figured you'd just chime in with that anyway. All right, that's that same question again. Will there be a successor to the Core 1000? Actually a case that I personally really liked. I unboxed it a long time ago and I was quite impressed by the innovative cost savings of moving the hard drive mounting to a single slab of metal as opposed to building a complicated cage while offering other advantages such as improved airflow through the front because you got your frigging drive cage out of the way and the fact that it still holds enough hardware. Are we going to see anything else like that? Yeah, okay. So then now I have to do the typical disclaimer that I cannot talk about products and they are not going to be released in the near future, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, if you look at the rest of our product line, I think you can kind of see what we tend to do. I mean we take, you know, we design our cases, we take feedback from our customers and from our fans and you know, we help, we use that to help us build new products because I mean obviously that's who we're designing this stuff for at the end of the day. So I would say I wouldn't be surprised at all if you saw something like that. As far as timeframe, no, I don't know. Have I seen anything internally? No, I have not. Okay. The Core 1000 has been incredibly popular for us and it makes you look tall. So I mean we got to keep it around for a while. Thanks. I mean the thing about the Core 1000 is keeping it within that price range. I don't know how much really could be improved. We, I mean you do get some of that, right? I mean it's like, oh, we can add this, we can add that. The next thing you know, it's like the Core 1000 at $69.99. It's like, okay, that kind of just went the opposite direction where that case was at. So and functionality wise, I mean it works very well, especially in its intended market. So. Well, you guys have so much margin anyway that you should be able to sell Core 1000s for $20 or you know $16.99 anyway. So, you know, according to those yahoos on that. Okay, we got to lean on some guys that were going to buy 500 of them. So we just shift all our pricing towards them. Should work out for both of us. Oh, terrible. Minus Tech and Josh, do you think there will be an all-in-one boutique system made custom for some rich people? I'm going to let you go first. An all-in-one? Yeah, still when it comes back to the boutique side of things, you know, I guess what I was when I was doing it was like a cross between like a boutique and a modern, you know, because people back in the day, you know, like when you were young. Yeah, exactly. You know, when you were making cases out of stone, it's like people didn't come up on the motherboard. Like we had to do that ourselves, you know, walk uphill both ways and all that sort of crap. But I mean, legitimately, it's like there weren't a whole lot of features like that. So you tried to tailor it as much as you could to your intended audience. All-in-ones get a little tricky though. I mean, it's a very difficult form factor to deal with. It's very difficult to... Basically, the investment that goes into designing an all-in-one necessitates that you sell a buttload of them. And yeah, you basically not got a proprietary design. It's like why don't you design your own laptop is about where it's at. Pretty much. So unless like Steve Wozniak decides to build one like for himself, I don't think it's likely to happen. Now, I did see a gigabyte prototype and I think it was Computex? CES. CES. Maybe it was that CES. That was an all-in-one that allowed aftermarket graphics card upgrades with like standard PCI Express graphics cards. They had like a 580 or something stupid in it at the time. And I was like, whoa, that's kind of crazy. But other than that, I haven't really seen much and I really don't think anything like that will ever be wildly successful. Yeah, plus the people are going to pay that amount of money for something custom aren't... At least in my experience when we were doing it, they weren't so much concerned about the form factor. It was more here's what I want to do or I want to trick it out and have this custom paint job on it. I want to have more of like a look to it, but not so much a form factor. All right. Here we go. Josh, what did you major in in college? Oh, let's see here. Did I go to college? Other than modeling. Other than modeling, I major in that every day. I mean, I wake up. First thing I do is, I mean, well, I'm awesome when I get out of bed. I'm awesome when I go to bed. Yeah, I'm pretty much awesome all day. Now in college, believe it or not, and if you watch the first live stream I was on, you got a little bit of hint at this. I actually majored in criminology and criminal justice. And then I kind of accidentally pepper sprayed a bunch of people. Which actually was was kind of related to my major. So that's all. That's like me saying that I like broke my mom's laptop and that's somehow related to my job. You don't have a job, man. I mean, you just kind of sit there and then like you get all pouty when someone argues with you and then you change subject. I think we're going to move on to actually, you know what? I think time's up with our guest. Hey, I have a job. My job is difficult. Reaching stuff on the top shelf. Wow. Oh, I didn't hurt your feelings today. And he goes to the live stream doc and he searches for a new doc. Yeah, let me pick something that Gummy Josh doesn't know anything about. What do you think of Viridium usage in Last of Our Ponies? I don't want to talk anymore. Oh, slick. You got to give it to me. If I got Linus to be quiet, that is like an epic achievement. That is actually quite impressive. We should probably have a separate like lower third animation that like can put a little crown on him. That's like achievement unlocked. Do I get a badge? I want a badge on the forum. Oh. Silenced Linus. And it can be like one of the like the silence icons from a video game. Like was actually able to silence Linus. Badge award forum. Still, we're actually going to be adding awards on our forums. Speaking of me not having...they're done? They're mostly done. Oh, good work. Well, it was called to Winspeed. I installed it. He distributed. It was a huge job. So thank you Winspeed. Speaking of fist bumps, EA is apparently getting sued for shutting down the servers for games that they're not really running anymore. So this was posted on the forum by Ichando and the article is from Techdirt. And basically, what's happening is Justin Bassett claims he bought several sports themed games for Xbox 360 for about $59.99 each. Relying on Electronic Arts representation that the games were enabled for unlimited online play. But the games were available for only a limited time, he says. Had the plaintiff known at the time, he would not be able to play the products online for a certain amount of time. He would not have purchased the products or paid the price he paid for the products. Whose side are we on here? Should they have to run servers forever? Should they not? Unlimited, no. Not necessarily unlimited. But the amount of time that EA does run servers is not very acceptable. Because it's such an incredibly short amount of time. Now, this document didn't actually state anywhere specifically on it unless it's in the huge 24 page something or other legal document. One page legal document. It might be somewhere in there. Exactly how long the particular games that he's talking about lasted. But it is very very short period of time. What he's asking for I believe is a minimum of three years. Which is not a lot to ask for a game. Halo 1 was like quite a...or Halo 2 sorry, was quite a while. Quite a long time. And NES was supported for 24 years. That's too much to ask in my opinion. You shouldn't ask for 24 years. But you should also be able to ask for more than one or two years. And I think what they were also asking is that EA should disclose what the window is. You can't say unlimited if it's going to be a year or two. Josh, what do you think the solution is here? Yeah, good question, right? I mean I do see both sides of it. Like you know indefinite support is not something you can ask for. But then yeah getting shortchanged. Like well you know you bought that last Tuesday and didn't sell the way we thought it would. And we want to reallocate that team so you have until next Thursday to play your game. Yeah. I don't know. I mean I don't know what the answer is. But yeah I think like three years something like that. I think that's feasible. I mean if you look at the investment that you put into it. Like what do you expect the life cycle of the game to be? Especially with a sports game where you know I guess replay is a lot higher. Replay is incredibly high. Yeah. So it's one of those things where it's not like oh I beat the storyline or I'm tired of going out and just you know doing raids or whatever else. I don't know. I mean I think the rest is sure whatever EA does you guys don't like it. You know what I think the solution that I would be happy with is EA running their own servers for however long they want. And then allowing other people to do so afterwards. And allowing third party servers to be hosted because that's the thing that kills me about it. We've got a lot of the Twitch chat going like Counter Strike still running. Battlefield Bad Company 2 still running. Quake still running. All this stuff still running and it's like well yeah because the community is allowed to keep it running. That's the problem with EA's closed platform when it comes to server hosting is that the game runs for as long as they kind of sit there and go like yep. And this time it's not just an EA problem. Just this EA getting sued so it got into our dock. Well that in EA is one of the worst offenders because they're doing yearly releases on their titles. I mean if Blizzard had released you know 16 StarCrafts by now I'm willing to bet StarCraft 1 support would have fallen away at some point. Whereas Blizzard releases so few titles the overhead is especially because a lot of their older library is old ass games where the overhead is much lower. So there's all of that. But EA backs themselves into this corner where realistically if they were fully supporting with a battle net like infrastructure every single sports game they've ever made for a period of like 10 years. Would it really take that much though? It wouldn't not take that much because even things like security patches you'd have to have teams working on them. That's a good point. The security patches point is very good but hosting the infrastructure is not going to take that much. Okay that I don't think is the problem. The problem is the overhead. Yeah yeah people working on it stuff like that. And that's interesting and yes I understand and like I said EA is not at all the only company that has done this and had problems with it. But it's just obviously they're a huge company they're going to come up in our dock. Every week. Every week. In other news EA actually did something really good. Yeah I'll bring this one up. But a little bit really good. It's down a little bit from the other one. Hey guys. I hate to bail but I got a roll. Alright thank you for joining us Josh you've been a fantastic guest. Guys let us know in the Twitch chat. I'm actually going to start asking Twitch chat to rate all of our guests on a scale of 1 to 5. Of course you start with Josh. I'm starting with Josh. Yeah exactly. He's a model of course he's going to get highly rated. Models do not always get highly rated when they are like you know sex toy models. Because those pictures are gross dude. What? You didn't know what kind of modeling Josh does. Yeah definitely neither did I. But you know I'm glad I found out. Just because you're good with Photoshop I don't know what posters you got on your wall. You know what I tell you what the next time that I do the livestream because I will be back in person. And then I can turn around and look at your I guess homage to the tech syndicate behind you there on the wall. Hey it is always right outside the frame at all times. You know how Logan's always joking about he could potentially not be wearing pants. I could potentially have lewd photos of you, Logan, Slick and every other industry affiliate that I've ever talked to just out of frame. Right here. We mean Craig. Right here guys and I could potentially not be wearing pants. Peace Josh. Thanks for joining us and we'll see you again soon. Sounds cool I'll see you guys later. Thanks for having me. See you later Josh. Alright. So why don't we move on to our next topic which is that EA sucks a little bit less. A little bit less. I don't give them that much credit for this. No neither do I. That's why I keep on saying a little bit. Where is it? Ah yes. Okay I couldn't find it because it was hiding. The title of the article was EA did something good. Which was I wasn't looking for that even so. So EA this was posted on the Linus Tech Tips forum by user Lightning. Thank you very much for that. EA raises $18,000 for AIDS research. More than 80 staffers took part in the event which is a 10km fundraising walkathon. The money will go to the San Francisco AIDS Foundation and 50 other AIDS service organizations throughout the Bay Area. It is important to be involved etc etc etc. And yeah. They match the employees contributions. Okay. That's what they do. So they match the employees contributions which totaled $18,000. But you're EA. Yeah. I mean to me this is kind of like. Sorry. I can't possibly say it's bad. No. It's good. It's not a bad thing but it's like. This doesn't make up. I don't know maybe this is a yearly thing. Whatever. Maybe this has just been going on forever. But if this was an attempt to like buy back some of the hate. Like dude you're really far off. You should have made a bigger splash. I mean it's kind of like. It just seems kind of hollow. Like you know when a celebrity gets diagnosed with some disease. And then they donate millions of dollars to the foundation that's trying to cure the disease. Yeah. And then when it's something that doesn't affect them personally. It's just like they tweet about it or whatever. That to me is what this kind of feels like. Where it's like yeah you could have done more. But I don't want to criticize because the reality of it is you did give thousands of dollars to. It's still a good thing. It's still a very good thing. So I'm happy that EA did this. And if it's a yearly thing. Then it's just probably something that's been going on forever. And it's not a huge deal. It's just part of the company. That's very cool. If this was an attempt to like make people like them more. Then dude you missed the mark by quite a bit. So I would like to know more about the story. But good job EA. Thank you for donating to Raids. Raids research? Raids research. No I think you're thinking of Blizzard. Yes. I meant to say AIDS research. We're on fire today. We are on fire today. Alright let's talk about the lab grown burger. Because I totally think this is awesome. So this actually is sort of in line with the conversation that we were having about building an all in one. That's like a boutique grade all in one computer. When you only build a couple of them. Something that is by definition boutique. It is extremely expensive. So this is an article from Digital Trends. Unsurprisingly says the headline. The $300,000 lab grown burger. So this was made using 3D printing technology. As well as simulated meat. That was grown as opposed to. Actually hold on. No no this one does use 3D printing or doesn't. I know there's something else. So blah blah blah. Yeah 3D printed lab grown burger. To build what should be nutritionally and in theory taste wise beef. Yeah. So it cost $331,200 to produce. No one liked it. And it's kind of insane. So here's the tweets from the BBC correspondent. Hanny says she expected texture to be softer. It's close to meat but not juicy. There's no fat in the burger so tasters say not the right flavor. Both tasters want ketchup. The lack of fat marbles means that the lack of savory overindulgent finish that we've come to enjoy. That's a direct quote. Almost direct quote from the article. It's not there. We like fat. We like juice. And it's not in it. Fat and salt. And all those good things. And this is a health focused 3D printed burger. Yeah. I'm sure if they see. Another thing is if you look at the picture there's bun, patty, tomato, lettuce. Yeah they probably could have dressed it up a little more. They could have dressed it up. Put some mushrooms on there. They could have put ketchup on it. This is kind of a fun article. I don't know if you read this. But they've got other ridiculously expensive foods that you could have bought instead. So 331 Golden Opulence Sundays which is like expensive chocolates, gold covered almonds, chocolate truffled candies fruits and topped with a 23 carat edible gold leaf. You can get diamond encrusted sushi. You could get 331,200 McDonald's cheeseburgers. Which would kill you. Yeah. I mean yeah. Whatever. Alright moving on to our next thing. John Carmack joins Oculus as the CTO. So we were talking last week I think about how Nvidia is making their own virtual reality headset. And some thoughts came up. Well that wasn't like a weird prototype thing. Weird prototype thing and all that kind of stuff. But some interesting thoughts came up with people talking about maybe more mature companies were going to step in and just blow up the field. I saw a lot of comments about this in different places. And people were worried that Oculus might get run over. Oculus would pioneer the whole thing and then just get completely run over. John Carmack steps in. Everything changes. Oculus Rift is now that mature company. It doesn't matter anymore. The credibility is there. Just boom. I mean like okay. When you build the prototype that works your credibility goes like this. Oh yeah. When Valve is all like got their panties all wet about what you're doing. Your credibility goes like this. John Carmack is one of those guys that could actually sit at a round table with someone like Gabe Newell and talk shop. So when he legit joins your company as the CTO then your credibility goes like this. You get one of those big iterations of credibility that he's just talking about. It's just huge. So good for them. What's great about him is he's one of those guys that again this is the credibility conversation where it goes beyond his technical skill. Because a lot of truly visionary guys I mean I think Steve Wozniak is a great example which will help segue into our next topic. Where they're visionaries and they're geniuses and they're brilliant. But I mean you put them in front of a camera or you try to like talk to them and you're kind of like they can be. I mean and Woz is a lot better particularly these days. His Big Bang Theory appearance was awesome. Yeah. But having someone who's as eloquent as John Carmack he's a great interviewee. He's fantastic. Carmack's amazing. Yeah. He's so good. I mean we could just sort of like you know wank off John Carmack for the rest of this show I think. And both of us would enjoy it. I don't know that he would. John if you're watching I'm sorry for saying that. That was totally inappropriate. But you're awesome. And I'm very excited that he's now the CTO of Oculus Rift because I'm super stoked to get it. Everyone else is super stoked to get it. And this just makes me much more confident. I mean future of gaming guys. Future of gaming. Seriously. That's extremely exciting. Speaking of which I wanted to bring up something that I didn't have a chance to talk about last week. Oh I said I was going to segue into the Jobs movie. Is this better than that? I think maybe. Okay let's do it. Do it. Are old things that people tried to make and fail that brutally now becoming things that make tons of sense and everyone's super excited about. Like the Power Glove turning into Peregrine. Virtual Boy turning into Oculus Rift. I never replied to an email from Peregrine. You probably should. Crap. They were going to. No because I reached out to them about getting a sample so that we could check it out and showcase it. I'm going to email you right now so that you remember to do that later. Ah shoot because I think he said no initially because they didn't have any budget for it or something like that. But then I think he reached out to me again. So for those of you guys who haven't heard of it. The Peregrine Glove is I'm just going to load it up here. The Peregrine Home. Let's go ahead and fire this up. Alright so there. Talk about Power Glove versus Peregrine. So Power Glove is they're actually very different. But the idea of having a controller strapped to your hand and or arm in some way is still inherent in Peregrine. So what you do is you have your controlling thumb and you touch different points on your fingers to the contacts on your thumb. So there's contacts along each one of your fingers and you touch it to your thumb and then those are bound to buttons on your keyboard. So you can essentially play games with just your hand which is interesting enables different. My favorite thing about it is if you have special disabilities it can help you a lot. Now you tried it. You didn't like it that much initially. I tried it. I didn't like it that much initially because what I was trying to do was and one of the problems is certain pieces of hardware will not demo well. You have to use it for a while to actually get used to it. So I sit down try and play Dota with this thing and I'm trying to quickly press all the buttons by tapping my fingers together and it just felt weird because my natural muscle memory is not to tap my fingers together when I want to press QWER. Right. I'm not having my fingers together so I'd run up to someone to fight and then instinctively my hand would like go down and like tap on the keyboard and then it'd be like no wait I have to press and then I'd have to remember like which one was which and it wasn't Twitch and it wasn't instinctive. But if you play with it for a while it could be Twitch and instinctive. So I would be interested to play with it for like a day instead of a five minute demo that I got at PAX a few years back. Right. So I didn't like it and I don't necessarily think you could be as fast because on a keyboard all your fingers will be resting on those keys. But okay hold on hold on think about this for a minute. Okay. Oculus. Combining I know exactly. Peregrine and then something like leapfrog. Yep. Combining everything together all these technologies coming in at one is going to make them all stronger Omni needs other things to be awesome. Oculus doesn't necessarily need other things to be awesome but raises up so much when you add other things to it. So I don't know. No way. So for the fourth time we are attempting to record the back half of this show which I think is actually going to kill me and or slick at some point here because between the technical difficulties with the initial stream and then the fact that we thought we were recording and then we weren't. And then we thought we were recording again and then we weren't because I think that was my bad that time because I think I clicked live stream and our Internet is still down. Okay. And then last year usually does both so you thought it would be fine. So I like I was on autopilot I very rarely use the local record feature because. Oh because this is supposed to be a live show. But it's not. Apparently so back to Ashton Kutcher. Back to Ashton Kutcher anyway we left off with the Peregrine where the clip just kind of dies and basically we're excited because Peregrine is a glove that you can use to interact with your computer and with not a keyboard and that plus leap motion is cool and that plus Oculus is cool and the way it all integrates is going to be cool. Things that are cool Ashton Kutcher I'm sorry but punked wasn't cool 70 show was cool but dude that was an awful long time ago. And this is a gizmodo article on was basically saying in an email. That's kind of not how it happened. Yeah. So I want to jump in right away on something that it took me a while to remember before. But in spite of the fact that it's in your notes for this topic. You said it the first time you said it the second time. Almost forgot the third time and then the fourth time I'm opening with opening. Okay. Hit me. Go watch Pirates of Silicon Valley. It's an amazing movie and is a really good accurate portrayal of the beginning of both Microsoft and Apple. So if you want all the starting of it go back watch that movie. It's an older movie. It's still really good. This has some Hollywoodness going on. And I mean there's like this scene in an underground parking lot where jobs is like was don't you see it's the future of computing. Holy crap man. Oh my God. We're going to change the world. And from was is sort of interpretation and he seems to be a pretty grounded guy with no real incentive to lie about things at this point. Not close. We never had such interaction and roles. I'm not even sure what it's getting at. Personalities are very wrong although mine is closer. Don't forget that my purpose was inspired by the values of the homebrew computer club. So these ideas that of computers affecting society didn't come from jobs. They came from the homebrew computer club. They were widely spoken about there. I'm paraphrasing Steve Jobs came back from Oregon came to a club meeting and didn't start talking about the great social impact. His idea was to make a twenty dollar PC board and sell it for forty dollars to help people at the club build the computer. Want to make some money. Yes. And help people build computer. The lofty talk came much further down the road and I never looked like a professional. We were both kids. Our relationship was so different than what was portrayed. I'm embarrassed. But if the movie is fun and entertaining all the better. In fact looking at the portrayal of jobs in the movie based on what I've read in the biography about him basically being a smelly hippie. That you wouldn't want like anywhere near your furniture or children. Like it really seems like they've. Go watch Pirates of Silicon Valley. Okay there. Now we've done that topic. Let's move on to the next one that we're doing for the bloody fourth time. HTC One Max I can't even remember is this was this. Did we do this before. I think we did this before before the bad things. We did the felony thing before the bad things. The console thing. Yeah console optimizations. Yes. John Carmack again. I swear we could talk about how awesome John Carmack is like forever. We just did. We just did. We have we have now talked about how awesome John Carmack is forever. All day. Four times. All day. We've been talking about John Carmack. You're awesome. So basically the performance boosts. Oh this was posted on the forum by tech fanatic Matt Higbee has come out and said the performance boosts that they are achieving by optimizing their game for multi core in order to port it to the PlayStation 4 are already going to be able to affect the optimization of the PC version and Planetside 2 is nothing if not a poorly optimized. Poorly optimized single thread and single thread only game. So the thing about PS4 and Xbox one is that they might have eight core CPUs but man they are not powerful cores. They're like they're like if you know a vegetarian had bulimia and wasn't taking the proper supplements like dude they've got no energy because they're you know not supplement they don't have a correct diet and they're not keeping their food. I don't know where I'm going with this. I'm tired. It has actually been a phenomenally long day and I didn't sleep till like 530 last night. You found a different way of describing those cores every single time we've done this and that was the best one. I think by best you mean worst. Anyway the cores aren't very powerful so for game developers to be able to leverage that power we're talking we're talking cell processor all over again where it's that was way ahead of its time and no one was able to really optimize it because it was a different architecture and there was a bunch of cores and blah blah blah. Now they're x86 so it's like guys get your act together. Optimize this stuff and the PC will benefit as well which is great because developers could rely on the PC to have these uber single thread cores and that's on both the Intel and AMD side but these more mobile optimized low power consumption APU chips and these consoles aren't able to do it. It's going to be great because games like Planetside had no real intention of updating the performance of their game. Who really cares? They're going to maybe... Runs well enough. Yeah it's fine. The people know how much they need to run Planetside so now they're optimizing it for the console and now it's just going to make everything better. It's not a bad thing at all. Speaking of optimization, wait did we talk about CUDA is doomed? I have no idea. I have no idea what we talked about. Anyway Ichando on the forum. Skip this if we've already talked about it. I don't know. Basically AMD shots fired Ron Taylor on APU's gaming and the end of CUDA. Basically the summary is CUDA is a closed standard. This quote is so awesome. It just fires everything. All the bullets. Okay so he's talking about PhysX but because there's a parallel being drawn between PhysX and CUDA and that they're both closed standards unlike OpenCL. PhysX is an utter failure because it's proprietary. Nobody wants it. You don't want it. I don't want it. Gamers don't want it. Analysts don't want it. So I think that pretty much says it. I mean the thing about PhysX is that in the very beginning it was much more terrible than it is now. It was like this weird dedicated card that ran in a PCI slot of all things. Nobody really bought it. If anyone needed to work through their mind that it wasn't doing anything, the fact that it ran in a PCI slot meant that there probably wasn't much data transfer going on here. That's an oversimplification. It could be doing a lot of work on its side and then spitting out results that don't require much bandwidth but I'm kind of making fun of it. Then it got better when Nvidia acquired them and now anyone with an Nvidia graphics card was able to run PhysX, Accelerated, CUDA, Accelerated, PhysX, all that stuff. But at the end of the day I think he's right. I think open standards like OpenCL are going to be the future. I mean you look at even companies like Adobe. What a major win that was. CS6 running CUDA. That might have just won it for them. Because open platforms and computers go together like nothing ever before. People love open platforms on computers. I'm trying to find a different way to say this than every single other time I've said it. You don't have to. It's okay. Just go verbatim and they'll bear with it. There's paid which people aren't totally into on computers. Then there's free which is kind of a big deal. Then there's open which is on a completely different platform. Because the second you bring out open everyone can optimize it for their own usage. And they can either deliver it for free or they can charge money for it. Or they can charge money for it depending on how they augment it. But when someone like Adobe backs it you know that Adobe is going to probably be contributing in some way. Yes. And I mean the thing is that it's not like CUDA is dead. No. It's certainly not dead today. I mean look at something like the Titan supercomputer. Any kind of specialized application where you're really good. Specialized hardware and specialized programming languages may actually be optimal for an application like that. Where you are really dialing down into the hardware to get the absolute most out of it. And you're purpose building a single machine and purpose building software to run on it. But then again maybe that's what Ron's talking about. Is maybe we shouldn't purpose build software and purpose build machine. Because at the same time if you take an open platform you can hack into it and change things to make it purpose built. Yes. So open is great and that's basically what he's saying. So there you go. Yet another thing that we talked about before but now we're talking about again. Did we talk about 3D flash yet? Ah yes. No we didn't. Okay. Samsung changing the SSD game again with 3D vertical NAND flash. This is fantastic because Samsung's already using really innovative strategies to bring more performance to SSD. So things like RAM caching with their rapid technology as well as that weird mode. I don't even remember what they call it. But basically they're emulating SLC flash operation on TLC flash. In order to get a performance boost that's temporary but very very real and something that many users will be able to realize a lot of the time. Now they're driving capacity. How many layers is this? 24 I believe. So there's still. Yes 24 layers vertically. They can stack 24 layers of traditional styled flash. This was posted by Muddy Mucks on the forum by the way. On top of each other's vertically to just oh your capacities are going to explode. So we're going to be talking about smartphones that instead of coming in 16, 32 and 64 gig. Like they have been since the dawn of bloody time. We might be talking about 384 gig smartphone. Aw yeah. I mean come on like iPad 1 had the same capacities available as iPad 4. Which is brutal. And you look at Apple. They actually are trying to drive things forward. Look at how quickly they launched iPad 4 after iPad 3 because we can. We can build something more powerful so here it is. Does it bone people who just bought an iPad 3 a little bit? Oh I don't know maybe. But here's a higher resolution display because we can. Here's a more faster processor because we can. And I think if they could deliver higher capacities while maintaining their lucrative product profit margins they would. This will enable it. So yay. Stacking stuff. Find another topic. Go go. What have we not talked about? Nvidia tablet market thing. Yes. Nvidia diving into tablets beyond Nvidia Shield which hopefully ours is going to arrive soon. So what we were discussing was how Microsoft tried to dive into tablets and it was a very very bad thing. Very very bad thing. And how while this is dangerous and I think jumping into the tablet game at this point in time is borderline suicidal. Posted by Talha on the forum by the way. There's a maximum PC article that we're going to go to. Go ahead. It's borderline suicidal but if someone's going to do it it might as well be Nvidia. Because they're going to gain some experience from their Shield. And they're going to get more developers looking into building that style of Android game. Not necessarily touch screen Android game. And then they're going to come up with a tablet. And that tablet will probably like hear controllers and what not. Like it's going to be Tegra 5. It's going to be gaming. And I mean you look at what they're doing on the software side as well. It's more than just the hardware with these guys lately. And I mean that's what it is funny because that article has a link or has a picture of the Razer Edge. And that's another company that's trying to differentiate based on not only hardware but also software. So you look at what they're doing with coms. Which by the way guys we are powered by Razer coms. Download it here if you haven't already. Try it out. It's free. It's voice chat software that doesn't require any kind of server or any kind of complicated setup. And anyway that's what Nvidia is doing. Shadowplay. GeForce Experience. It's more than just FPS now. And the built-in H.264 encoding in Kepler may be a big part of this upcoming tablet. I fully expect them. You said there was a picture of the Razer tablet. Yeah but I fully expect them to have some type of controllers. Oh yeah I wouldn't be surprised at all. Probably similar to that style or something like that style. And I mean with H.264 encode, like with Shield, you're able to use a Kepler grade GPU to push to it and it can decode it. But this is an older architecture now at this point. Whereas if we have a Kepler based on the tablet, now all of a sudden standards like WiDi that... I mean come on. Put up your hand if you actually used WiDi at some point. Other than at work no so I'm not going to put up my hand. So okay. WiDi, you know you look at devices like Chromecast. We might be looking at with built-in hardware encoding ways to stream much higher bit rate, much higher quality video streams with dumb dongles on the other end. And by the time that rolls around we might have a next generation Chromecast or something like that. That's a perfect match for it. Yep definitely. Extremely exciting. So if anyone's going to pull it off, probably Nvidia. Probably Nvidia. So it's still crazy. Yeah it's still insane. But they could do it. Which is cool. Was that all we did before Build Logs or did we do more? We had the Radeon 9970 rumors. So this is the Volcanic Islands series of GPUs which is sort of appropriate because per Mersu's post on the forum the rumor is the 9970 will have a 300 watt TDP which actually if that's true I can't imagine that's true. That should exceed the PCI Express standard I believe. I thought it was 275 max. That's interesting I didn't even think about that. I could be wrong. But anyway huge TDP. This is the rumored card. The code name is Hawaii. There's also a rumor that they're going to launch it in Hawaii. It's like a special press event. That would be kind of cool. Prepare your water blocks since the post here. Oh seriously. We've talked a few times about how water cooling not being as big of a deal as it was before. On graphics cards it's becoming a bigger deal. Hello yeah exactly. Titan this. Speaking of Titan the rumored performance is that it'll be around 5 percent faster than Titan. So while we can't confirm nor deny the rumors because we actually don't know there's a lot of stuff in here about specs. So they're claiming 1 GHz clock speeds with 4000 shader units. Effective memory clock of anywhere from 6 GHz to 6, 7 GHz, 512 bit bus, 4 gigs of GDDR5 memory. I guess it's kind of in line with even though we can't confirm or deny kind of in line with what AMD has been doing. It makes sense. They slashed pricing on the 7990. Got that driver out slashed pricing. I don't know if you saw netlinked but there was a 7970 for like 329 which is pretty cheap. It is pretty cheap. Yeah it's looking like they're adjusting pricing in their product stack to make room for these before they even arrive. So yeah it could be a very exciting time for graphics cards over the next little bit here. Graphics cards have been really exciting for a little bit. And AMD has been kind of doing things a little differently. Like coming out and saying no new GPUs this year. And then just. And then releasing one like immediately with the 7790. That was a different architecture. And then like it's like September which is last time I checked in the same calendar year as like February when they were saying this. I says pardon. So guys. What is your year start. Yo dogs. I heard you like sort of throwing everyone off a cliff in terms of how closely they're able to follow along with what you're doing exactly over there. I mean I guess it's good because you know you don't want your competitor getting the drop on you or anything like that. But. Which normally it seems like everyone does but in this case not necessarily. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we tackle one more topic before we do build the week and then we can sign off for the fourth bloody time on this. Here why don't we do something that we skipped last time. Microsoft digs more holes for its console. So I gotta find this one second. Da da da da da da da. Those movies crashed as badly with the fourth installment as the X. I wish it was the fourth X box. Wouldn't that be great. I love Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones as much as anyone. But speaking of which Harrison Ford is apparently going to be in the new Expendables movie. Really. Yeah. Bruce Willis was asking for a million dollars a day. They offered him three million for four days and he held out and Stallone replaced him within 72 hours with on his Twitter. He was like a better actor a nicer guy and then he said something on Twitter about how like being lazy and greedy is a bad career move or something like that. So this is supposed to the whole idea of Expendables was to screw around. Was it not the first movie was terrible so they couldn't have possibly been trying to make a serious movie. It was supposed to be just like everyone getting back together. We're kind of getting older now. It's kind of the end of our careers. Let's just make a movie and have fun. That's I read that. And then here we are three movies into the head. Who cares. Whatever. I refused to watch the second one based on how terrible the first one was. I don't think it's for you. I think they're having fun on their own. Well whatever. DLF posts on the forum. This is this is an article from One Hit Pixel. Oh this is just terrible because game streaming is such a big thing. And you look at companies like Twitch where we stream our where we do our live stream. And everyone's trying to figure out how to cash in on game streaming. Microsoft apparently thinks the method to cash in is going to be to require users to pay for Xbox Live gold. One thing is people are probably going to be streaming multiplayer games. Just to be completely honest. If you're playing a multiplayer game you have Xbox Gold anyways. OK that much is true. I'm going to play Devil's advocate of life. Although I will OK although I will never ever mark my words sign up for a subscription based server. It's not going to happen. So you're not. So I won't sign up for a pay per month MMO. You're not a console player. I know but I mean even on PC I won't sign up for a pay per month MMO. I'm not going to I don't support that model. It's a I don't like that model. Free to play is getting kind of gross lately though. Dedicated servers. Dedicated servers are awesome. Dedicated servers are what I want. And no I don't I don't I don't think free to play is necessarily the right way to go either because there's a lot of pay to win and there's a lot of what I think it was Logan that was talking about just sort of the general level of trolling stupidity that goes on with free to play. No barrier of entry. I think it's not necessarily great either. But yeah anyway. So I mean I'm imagining paying for an Xbox Live Gold membership to me is like if you guys all just refused to pay for it it would go away. It would be free. They do need people to buy the consoles and they do need people to buy the games but everyone just kind of keeps doing it. Sorry go ahead. I'm just the same time Sony had it free. I didn't like it. So it was too crappy. They had to make it paid so they could fund it more. Had to is an awfully strong way to keep shareholders happy. And if they didn't their company could close when you're publicly traded company you have to do certain things. OK fine. And and now this is just something that I scraped up right before the stream started. So please correct me if I'm wrong in the comments. But as far as I know you can record but not necessarily upload through the PlayStation if you don't have PlayStation Plus or whatever it's called. OK. But it makes a ton of sense that you could just take that file and upload it off your computer. Oh wait no it says right here. Sony's share feature for PlayStation 4 allows users to record and upload up to 15 minutes of footage and is not restricted to PlayStation Plus users. Record and upload. OK. Yeah. So Microsoft it says allows gold members to record up to five minutes of in-game footage for editing and upload to the Xbox Live service. That's that's the thing too. They can apparently edit it on the Xbox. I don't think you can edit it. Why would you want us. Why would you. What. Who who records a five minute recording and then edits it on their Xbox. I mean this is how out of touch Microsoft is. Yep I agree. I saw that and I was like oh cool you can edit it terribly. It's just going to suck. All you're going to be doing is cutting it and it won't be that great. I mean looking at how much worse they managed to make Windows Live Movie Maker than the original Windows Movie Maker. The original Windows Movie Maker as far as I've been told wasn't even that bad. No it wasn't that bad. Yeah. Windows Live Movie Maker isn't even that bad but it isn't as good as the old one. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. Burgle. We should all just go back to that awesome game 3D Movie Maker. That thing was awesome. You're too young for that game. But it was. Oh man it was awesome. It wasn't actually. I can't believe it's five minutes. Anyway I still don't think this is going to prevent you from capturing via HDMI using something like an AverMedia Live Gamer portable or something like that. My understanding is Microsoft hasn't said that they're going to be enabling HDCP. Whereas I believe Sony is still holding to the HDCP enabled outputs on PS4 just like they did with PS3. So it's not like Sony is perfect in all of this by any stretch of the imagination. Alright. Alright. Now to build the hoops. We have a few more topics. Yeah we do kind of have a few more. CBS blocks online subscribers from watching their content if they use Time Warner. This is like totally not okay. Nope. To put it in sort of the most. This is posted on the forum by Ichando. Holy crap. In response to Time Warner cutting off access to CBS in a few major markets today CBS has retaliated against Time Warner internet subscribers by blocking access to popular CBS shows currently available to watch on CBS.com. This my friends is an abuse of power and is nothing to do with the way that the internet should be working. Internet service. I mean we're not even talking traffic shaping anymore. We're talking about outright. That's my competitor and I want people who support my competitor to be punished. Punishing your customers or anyone else's customers. Punishing the customer. Is it. I'm just mad. Basically screwing over your customer in any way screwing over anyone in any way should not be allowed. And this is directly screwing over someone that is feeding you money. It's not okay. And this. Time Warner representatives are calling it CBS's move is an abuse of power specifically stating CBS has shown an utter lack of regard for consumers by blocking Time Warner cables customers including our high speed data only customers. So not even a cable TV competitor from accessing the shows on their free website. CPS enjoys the privilege of using public owned airwaves to deliver their programming. They should not be allowed to abuse that privilege. It's getting real y'all. Everything with different ISP's is getting nuts right now. I hope that they you know what I almost hope that they abuse it that they abuse their power as much as they possibly can get away with. So they get crushed. So that they get crushed. So that there isn't so that the government can't just kind of you know be like well it's not that bad yet. We're just going to. Just crush them. You know what I hope that it gets to the point where a third of the subscribers in the US can't access a third of the other websites because it's not being served over someone's pipe or someone's butthurt because someone else's hub is you know has bandwidth being using. I hope that they get that petty about it so that this all just goes away. That is what I hope because otherwise I don't think it'll go away. No probably not. All right. Why don't we call that it. Let's do build logs of the week which conveniently I already have downloaded because we've already done this. So I'm just going to have to find the download and we are starting with the awkward dreamer. Boom. Beautiful. It's just like last time. I was just going to say it's kind of weird doing this again because usually it's it's it's first usually fairly first impressions for you. Yeah. And I haven't seen my PowerPoint other than just stretching the image and going for gold. So it looks it looks very nice. One thing that you brought up the first time he's got four fans going in some crazy awesome wind tunnel. Yeah yeah the four fans here it's like fan one fan to fan three fan four and it's just like whoosh all the air but it shouldn't be loud. Because those are fan text fans. Those are quite nice fans. He's got he's got white white LED strips going all the way around the outside of his case which look great. Gorgeous. And he has awesome awesome sleeving on everything and a lot of nice custom spray painting. I painted graphics card shrouds painted S a lot across fire bridge rather. You had brought up the first time around that it was supposed to originally be a water cooled bill. But it kind of looks like it's underwater anyway. That's a nice night shot. Yep it's hard to get nice night shots but it looks it looks great there. He did a really really good job with this system. All right. Speaking of nights this one's nuts. These photos that we have here are in his basically it looks kind of like a pamphlet advertisement at the end. These are not his build log in progress photos. I highly suggest that you check out all the builds on the bill blog. There is so much back sweat going into this pillow at this point that I think it's almost soaked all the way through. It smells awful. I don't want to smell it. I don't want to smell it. I want to talk about a Dragon Knight PC. Geez. Wow. OK. Paul Tan has been on bill logs the week before. He makes awesome incredible computers. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's selling this. We can even say he's the. Poulton of computer builders. Oh my goodness. Let me just go ahead and open this up. Wow. Just like last time it's amazing. It's a cosmos too. The front is gorgeous. The sides got a window that's gorgeous and custom and holy crap it gets better than that. My problem with the cosmos too is that it's big for no apparent reason. You can't actually put that much stuff in it but it looks like he basically gutted it. So one thing that he's done if you notice right away is there's no I.O. coming out of the back of the case. The back of the case is on the right hand picture. So what he's done is rotated the motherboard 90 degrees and custom formed the computer to work well with that. So he's made an exhaust area on the back which can't see a ton of details on there but it has individual slanting down fins. It's a dark night. How much were you expecting to see? Hey. Oh why are you trolling Paul's system. Because I love it so hard. That's I guess that's not a bad point. That could be worse. Yeah so he's done a ton of custom work for it. If you want to see his like artist rendering prototype designs before he started building and his whole huge amount of pictures build log please check it out on the forum. Yeah check out the build log section of the build logs forum. Build logs of the week section of the build logs forum. Okay so this system has actually been done for a while I just have not been able to get Wailer to put it in the actual freaking build log section. So he finally did so we're finally showcasing it. This isn't necessarily something that's kind of along the lines of what we usually put on here. Gaming rigs. Yeah. Not for gaming although with six PCI Express slots. 32 Opteron cores and looks like up to whatever 8 by 16 would be so 8 times 10 is 80. And another 5 is 40 so that's a hundred probably what 156 gigs of memory or something stupid like that. Yeah well that sounds about right. Potentially. So as long as the board actually supports it. Like my SSD and my laptop isn't that big. And we're talking RAM. I wonder if that board supports it. Yeah so click next. It should even support more than that because if you throw some registered DIMMs in there I think there are 16 gig registered DIMMs. Sexy. That would be cool. DIMM heatsinks. Dat RAM. Yup. Dat custom rack. I was just kidding. Dat rack. Wow. So he commissioned this rack. You can get custom designed racks from I don't remember the guy's name. There are plastic surgeons that do that. This guy does it with aluminum. Aluminum custom designed racks. That is some space aged stuff you got going on there. It's like armor. Rack armor. Maybe that explains chicks in video games. Right. That's why their boobs are so big. Their armor. Right because they. It's for plating on the inside. Because they padded the bra because they have poor self esteem. Then they had to wear armor. Then there's clothing over top. Solved that mystery. What now ESRB? Anyways. Sorry we've done this a lot. I had to make it interesting somehow. This is a freaking awesome build. And I'm super stoked that Wailer did it. And this is purely for folding. As far as I know. I don't think he does anything with this system other than fold. And they get some monstrous number of it. I think it's 350,000 PPI or PPD. Something ridiculous. I mean Wailer's far and away the biggest contributor to the Linus Tech Tips forum folding team. Dude you're awesome. And I think that pretty much wraps it up for the WAN Show this week. Thank you for tuning in. Or I don't know it's not live anymore. Thanks for watching the archive. Thanks for watching the archive yo. Peace. Bye. Hopefully it worked this time. Yeah I know right.