Because he's a journalist. Really good writer. Teaches at Stanford now, actually. And so we went to Hawaii. We went to Maui, and he said, hey, Laird said he'd take us out Towan surfing. If you want to go, we're going to go Towin surf with Laird Hamilton. I don't think his level of what is mellow is something that is what we would consider. And I go, but we gotta go. It's once in a lifetime. So they took us out to Spreckles, which is near jaws, which is their big spot. This is, like, early two thousands. So Towan surfing was just starting to come into play. I'll never forget Dave Kalama, who's one of the surfers, one of his homies, he was trying out the first foil board there.