That's the thrill of it. Yes. That's a real super addicted to the cash. There's a great interview with him on Radio lab, and it's really interesting because they have to interview him from jail. And so when you call someone in jail, you can only talk to them for 15 minutes, and then you have to wait off the phone for 15 minutes for them to come back on, and then 15 minutes again. So they're interviewing this guy in these 15 minutes chunks, and it just cuts off at 15 minutes. And he has to wait. But he's describing this waiting. And then as time went on, he talks to Madoff more and more. He gets more and more comfortable. But the crazy thing about him is the complete, total lack of empathy. None. He has no empathy towards the people he fucked over, people that killed themselves. Like, there was a bunch of people that just one guy, which is really fascinating, he was worth $9 billion, and Bernie was telling him that he had to give seven of it back. He called the guy up. He goes, look, the jig is up. Everybody knows. And apparently he thinks, or at least his rationale was that all these people, like, the big high roller guys, they knew that they were ripping people off. They knew that there was no way you could always make money, that there was always going to be fluctuation. But like, even in, like, the way they describe it, I don't really necessarily understand finances that much. But the way they were describing it is that in like, every single move they made, this one guy wanted to make money every single. Like, there was never, you can ever show any losses at all or this guy would freak out. And he had, like, again, $7 billion in the mix. That's insane. Yeah, yeah. He said in an interview that when they were, like, asking him about, you destroyed all these people's lives, he was like, yeah, what about their culpability and all this? And he's like, well, you know, I mean, they have some responsibility, and they're like, you stole from them. He's like, yeah, but they fucking gave me the money, you know? Yeah, his thing was like, these people. These people are. They're not starving. That's what his thing. We're not talking about people in Africa talking about starving villagers. We're just talking about people. His own son killed himself.