Torture proliferates American headlines today: whether its use is defensible in certain contexts and the morality of the practice.  Wikinews reporter David Shankbone was curious about torture in American popular culture.  This is the first of a two part series examining the BDSM business.  This interview focuses on the owners of a dungeon, what they charge, what the clients are like and how they handle their needs.
When Shankbone rings the bell of "HC & Co." he has no idea what to expect.  A BDSM (Bondage Discipline Sadism Masochism) dungeon is a legal enterprise in New York City, and there are more than a few businesses that cater to a clientèle that wants an enema, a spanking, to be dressed like a baby or to wear women's clothing.  Shankbone went to find out what these businesses are like, who runs them, who works at them, and who frequents them.  He spent three hours one night in what is considered one of the more upscale establishments in Manhattan, Rebecca's Hidden Chamber, where according to The Village Voice, "you can take your girlfriend or wife, and have them treated with respect—unless they hope to be treated with something other than respect!" 
When Shankbone arrived on the sixth floor of a midtown office building, the elevator opened up to a hallway where a smiling Rebecca greeted him.  She is a beautiful forty-ish Long Island mother of three who is dressed in smart black pants and a black turtleneck that reaches up to her blond-streaked hair pulled back in a bushy ponytail.  "Are you David Shankbone?  We're so excited to meet you!" she says, and leads him down the hall to a living room area with a sofa, a television playing an action-thriller, an open supply cabinet stocked with enema kits, and her husband Bill sitting at the computer trying to find where the re-release of Blade Runner is playing at the local theater.  "I don't like that movie," says Rebecca.
Perhaps the most poignant moment came at the end of the night when Shankbone was waiting to be escorted out (to avoid running into a client).  Rebecca came into the room and sat on the sofa.  "You know, a lot of people out there would like to see me burn for what I do," she says.  Rebecca is a woman who has faced challenges in her life, and dealt with them the best she could given her circumstances.  She sees herself as providing a service to people who have needs, no matter how debauched the outside world deems them.  They sat talking mutual challenges they have faced and politics (she's supporting Hillary); Rebecca reflected upon the irony that many of the people who supported the torture at Abu Ghraib would want her closed down.  It was in this conversation that Shankbone saw that humanity can be found anywhere, including in places that appear on the surface to cater to the inhumanity some people in our society feel towards themselves, or others.  
"The best way to describe it," says Bill, "is if you had a kink, and you had a wife and you had two kids, and every time you had sex with your wife it just didn't hit the nail on the head.  What would you do about it?  How would you handle it?  You might go through life feeling unfulfilled.  Or you might say, 'No, my kink is I really need to dress in women's clothing.'  We're that outlet.  We're not the evil devil out here, plucking people off the street, keeping them chained up for days on end."  
Below is David Shankbone's interview with Bill & Rebecca, owners of Rebecca's Hidden Chamber, a BDSM dungeon.
David Shankbone:  What first attracted you to this business?
DS:  You would provide start-up costs and get it going?
DS:  What makes you atypical?
DS:  You don’t a have personal interest in S&M?
DS:  How is it that you're able to run a business that's centered around S&M and caters to those clients, when you don't have that inclination for yourselves?
DS:  What do your kids feel about this as a business?
DS:  What would they think?
DS:  What do they think you do?
DS:  Do you have a practice?
DS:  Kids just don’t care what their parents do.
DS:  Is that taxing on you?
DS:  How do you handle that?
DS:  So when people bring problems into work, which happens in any workplace, you're the one that they probably turn to.
DS:  Do either of you think ever of leaving this business?
DS:  But your kids know you work nights.  What do you tell them when you're leaving?
DS:  But what do they think that you're doing?
DS:  Work. Just--generic work?
DS:  I got you.  So it's just we're going to work on the business.  
DS:  Yeah.
DS:  [chuckles]
DS:  What are the startup costs involved?
DS:  What's your greatest non-fixed cost?
DS:  Where do you advertise?
DS:  In the back of the paper?
File:BDSM Personality Test.jpg
DS:  Why not?
DS:  How can you tell whether they will or will not?  Just by talking to them?
DS:  Could I have a sample, not necessarily one that's filled out, but just one that you-- 
DS:  [laughs] You'd be scared.  You wouldn't hire me.  Is it only girls you hire?
DS:  [Looking at list of questions] What would a question like "the greatest woman in the world" reveal to you?
DS:  Sure.
DS:  How did you originate these questions?
DS:  And it's an amalgamation of questions.
DS:  Yeah, I see O.J. Simpson.  What would that be an indicator of?
DS:  Do you ask for references?
DS:  What does it typically cost for a session?
DS:  And there's lower, and there's higher?
DS:  Depending on what they want to do?
DS:  What would be the most expensive thing that someone would ask for?
DS:  Multi-girl?  And what would they do in that?
DS:  Three girls would be eight hundred dollars an hour?
DS:  And does it vary based upon what they're asking for?
DS:  What would be an expensive, and what would be a cheap thing?
DS:  Sure.
DS:  And for an expensive thing?  What would be something that's--
DS:  What kind of an experience would that be that someone asks--?
DS:  But what would they do--multi-girls, just . . . . Like some--
DS:  Intercourse is completely off.
DS:  What about orgasms?
DS:  They're allowed orgasms.
DS:  And that's typical?
DS:  What are your clients like?
DS:  And he didn't like that?
DS:  It was acceptable to him.
DS:  And you don’t want that to be a slippery slope.  That's not the kind of clientèle that you really want…
DS:  What's your typical client?  
DS:  For typical client "John."  Who is John?  What is his background, what is he coming here for, what's he looking for?
DS:  So each person that approaches you at first, you don't really know what they're going to look for?  Do you have ideas like, "Mmm--I bet this is this kind of guy"?  Or is it just completely difficult to tell?
DS:  They choose one?
DS:  How many girls typically work on one night?
DS:  And whoever's not currently engaged will be there.
DS:  How large is your client base?  
DS:  Of repeat people.
DS:  How many times would a regular be considered?
DS:  Which is not what the clients are coming for.
DS:  So I'm that person, and I walk in the door, and I'm nervous as anything--what do you do?
DS:  Holding it and didn't realize it.
DS:  So then I go to the bathroom.
DS:  So you'll introduce me to the girls first.
DS:  You're going to talk to me first.  Out there, or in a room?
DS:  [laughs] Sure, sure.
DS:  What if  I'm not ready--too much, too soon.  So Rebecca's going to sit down or Alex or whoever's running the place that night is gonna sit down--
DS:  And I'm just-- I'm here, and I'm nervous.
DS:  And how do they typically react?  How does the conversation usually go?
DS:  Is it important to have body contact, touching them on the knee or hand, to form a bond?
DS:  What if I shrinked away when you did that?  
DS:  A bit more discreet.
DS:  So they get to the point where they feel comfortable.
DS:  What do they say?
DS:  Is it important to establish the motivations of the clients at the outset, such as whether they're looking for something that's a sheer thrill or whether it seems that they are maybe depressed and looking for self-abuse?
DS:  What if they want it to be abusive, though?
DS:  Well, that's the idea:  I don't know.  I think it would be the motivation of the person who's on the receiving end.  But there must be people out there who do want abuse--
DS:  Frying pans?
DS:  So it's not really possible to establish why they're coming in here.
DS:  What if a guy wants a guy?  Is it only male clientèle that you have?
DS:  You have couples.  Do you ever have just female?
DS:  And you have just male, too.
DS:  What if they want another male involved, that's not a couple?
DS:  It's not one of the things that you--
DS:  It's typical that they will orgasm during a session, but do it themselves.
DS:  Mostly?
DS:  Got you.  Just more of a psychological thing than it is [related to the] experience.   What's typical?  Something you would say, ‘Ahh, this is just a standard--‘
DS:  I read that recently.
DS:  Yeah, I recently saw that foot fetish is like the number one fetish.
DS:  Is it licking feet?  Is it tickling them?  Do the girls lick feet?
DS:  They won't lick the feet?
DS:  The guys will lick the feet.
DS:  Do girls ever act as bottoms in the rooms?
DS:  Ever act as the bottoms.
DS:  Well, I did my research. [laughs]
DS:  Yeah, subs.
DS:  Are there some girls who will not act as a sub?
DS:  And that girl's not for you?
DS:  But that probably also attracts a certain clientele that you may not want to have…the bruisers…
DS:  Are your employees allowed to meet clients outside of the dungeon?
DS:  How do you control that?
DS:  In the workplace.
DS:  Is this one of the rooms that's typically used [We are seated in the yellow room found in the photographs]?
DS:  This one seems very plain, there's a few things in the corner over there--
DS:  All over.  I've lived in 17 cities, six states and three countries.
DS:  Yeah, I had many, I had neighborhoods.
DS:  But some people would, right?
DS:  Of course.  But those people wouldn't also have a desire to come here, right?  You're meeting a particular need for a particular segment of the population.
DS:  What's the blue room, first?  Can you describe it?
DS:  Got you. Why is it popular?
DS:  If you introduce the girls and you don't know what the clients want, how do you know that it's going to be a safe situation for one of your employees?
DS:  No.
DS:  Never been to a topless bar.
DS:  What if they don't?   What if they're just a mental case?  What if they're a wild card?
DS:  You've never had one problem
DS:  Can you give me an example of a problem that you've had and how you handled it?
DS:  What happens when that's the case?
DS:  And you've never had a dangerous situation?
DS:  Instead of dangerous, let's say threatening, where there was concern for either your safety or--
DS:  I would say that the nature of the desire between eating and the desire for some sort of sexual pleasure, gratification, that there's always more of a chance for a threatening situation.  Someone who wants to go for a taco versus someone who wants to go for a BDSM session--
DS:  I would say that my notion would be yes, I would think that there is more of a likelihood of a threatening situation.  Now, if you're talking about a Taco Bell in the middle of the South Bronx, versus this place, I would say they're probably equal in danger.
DS:  A Taco Bell on Park Avenue versus here, I would say that there's more likelihood of a threatening situation occurring in a place like this than in a Taco Bell on Park Avenue.
DS:  I would make an assumption that yes, all things equal, that there might be more of a chance of a dangerous situation happening here.  You are rooting around in people’s psychology here.
DS:  Where they didn't feel safe.  And that's part of the main business model at Rebecca’s, right?  That it needs to be a safe environment for the client?
DS:  Is it usually appointments, or is it walk-ins?
DS:  You make exceptions for certain clients.
DS:  Is that because their desire--when they have a desire to come here--it's usually something that they plan out?
DS:  If I went to a Taco Bell and I said, "Can you name a dangerous situation?" they would say, "Oh, that time I got held up."  So I guess I'm curious about a threatening situation that you might encounter or have encountered.
DS:  Sure.  Sure.  But all that aside, what would be a threatening situation that you've had to handle?
DS:  Have you ever had to kick somebody out?
DS:  Why have you had to ask people to leave?
DS:  It's preventative.
DS:  The seven circles of Hell . . . .
DS:  Why would it not be good for the girls or the guys?
DS:  --need a break?
DS:  Give me a smooth one.
DS:  Are there people who would not be attracted to this kind of an environment, that want the crazier--
DS:  And probably so you wouldn't see them, but you'd probably have an idea about the--
DS:  Yeah, I'd love to talk to them, too.  What's their average length of employment?
DS:  Is it usually a temporary job, until they move on to something else?
DS:  Like "I'm putting myself through school." 
DS:  Paying debts down?
DS:  Some critics of BDSM say that it encourages domestic violence.
DS:  And you don't think it does.
DS:  Yes, some.
DS:  Yeah, sure. 

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BDSM as business: An interview with the owners of a dungeon