comment: >
  
  
  You need to train the crews and mechanics. 
  
  Could have done that 8 month ago.
context: The sooner Ukraine will receive modern weapons, the sooner war will end. >
  
  I don't believe in this. Just adding material won't change the time frame. There are just too many Rossiyane that Russia can still sacrifice in the Ukrainian meat grinder.
  The war will end when the people of Russia and its colonies will rise up against their leadership or whenever NATO sends troops to defend Ukraine. Whatever comes first. >
  
  Ukraine is absolutely capable of winning this war in the field with sufficient support. Russia is not going to run out of manpower, but they can run out of enough equipment to effectivity hold their positions. If Ukraine gets more quality armour, precision artillery, and hopefully airpower they will be able to conduct devastating manuver offensives
  Large numbers of poorly equipped, poorly led mobilized troops with low moral are a ripe target to be encircled and destroyed by armored offensives >
  
  I hope you are right. >
  
  What's to hope?
  The reason why russia has so many losses is because they are already running out of supply. There are no more huge convoys rolling, the use of rockets and artillery has reduced massively from the start of the war and the quality and equipment of the soldiers is also critically low.
  Sure russia could throw in a few more million soldiers but what use is that if you don't have the equipment to support that? In WW2 their massive numbers could achieve something BECAUSE they were provided material by the west in huge amounts. They don't have this luxury this time and as long as china isn't jumping in, which they very probably aren't, raising troop numbers will only lead to even worse equipment per soldier as well as hurting their economy and social peace. >
  
  I don't disagree with you. I am just not as optimistic on how long it will take and how many lives it will cost. >
  
  If it helps often things from the outside look stable enough until one day it doesn't anymore. >
  
  I feel a great disturbance in reddit, as if a millions of voices of r/NonCredibleDefense suddenly cried out in pleasure and were just as suddenly silenced when their sub was quarantined. >
  
  
  quarantined
  
  Lol, when did that happen? >
  
  If Reddit clamped down on every sub that spams anime memes with ms paint images dropped overtop of them they’d run out of content >
  
  This is what those Leopards were born to do >
  
  Maybe Germany could make like.. a Puma? >
  
  No, way to new and if Russia gets it's hands on it, we're in trouble >
  
  Are we tho?
  It's not like they could ever build one since it's strength isn't some secret tech but just putting a lot of conventional premium components into a high-quality whole that is very ergonomic and easy to operate
  It's a nighmare to produce for anything less advanced than what NATO has and for Russia to just replicate them would be rather utopical >
  
  Not worth the risk, end of discussion. >
  
  Mature comeback! >
  
  Okay then send the new MBT run that risk of giving Russia a chance, just be prepared to deal with the consequences >
  
  What risk? Which super dooper secret tech is in the Leo that the Russians will get their hands on that would give them such an advantage? It would be nice if you commented on u/typohnename his/her argument. That’s why I called you out on your silly reply, because it is what it is, a childish silly reply with no content. >
  
  They're talking about the puma, Germany's new MBT, maybe  YOU should PAY ATTENTION. >
  
  The puma is an infantry fighting vehicle and is absolutely not Germany’s new MBT. >
  
  Leopard tanks…ate my face? >
  
  So many political analyst here. >
  
  Send the cougars… >
  
  I don't think we want to reward them? >
  
  Good call. >
  
  May for once a German tank named after a cat do well against Russia >
  
  German tanks did well against Russia, the scale of economies against Germany ruined them. The numbers produced by the allies make it clear the Nazis were never gonna keep up. We are talking thousands vs tens of thousands from each side. >
  
  Yep, but not just that allied tanks were simpler, easier and cheaper to produce as well as easy to maintain and repair. These were just as important factors to making a tank great as their abilities in combat. >
  
  Very true, but Germany did produce incredibly effective tanks. The allies had the benefit of rapidly evolving technology and knowledge and the ability to design new tanks and field them easily. That benefit is largely because of economy as well. >
  
  Did the Allies have more rapidly advancing tech than the Germans? I feel like we were just more conservative with the technology we had, and focused more on building tanks that were easy to manufacture, maintain and bring to the front. It also helps that we had manufacturing bases that were out of the Germans' reach, in North America and the interior of Russia. 
  German tanks were in a lot of cases vastly superior to their allied counterparts, but they were designed to win battles; whereas allied tanks were designed to win wars. Doesn't matter how amazing your Tiger tanks are if you can only field a handful of them against a host of Shermans with uncontested air superiority on their side. >
  
  You could have switched the tanks the countries produced and the outcome would be the same. Constant bombing and just way more allied production capacity was more worthy than any tank design. >
  
  It’s damn hard to supply an army when the factories are getting bombed daily. That’s one major advantage the US had and continues to have to this day; so long as war never touches its shores, the US war machine can churn out supplies at an insane pace. >
  
  Being Russian emigrant I'm so pissed off by the half-assed western support of Ukraine! Give Ukraine tanks, planes, missiles, cut of Russian goods completely, I want this war to end ASAP. The only end is Russian war defeat and it's just a question of time. The more west procrastinates, the more time it'll take, more death, more money for rebuilding etc. >
  
  That’s not how it works. You can’t just give weapons that you need yourself especially if they need extensive training first. It’s a bit ignorant in this case especially since Germany’s military is severely under equipped already. >
  
  Big question:
  Why no M1 Abrams?
  Anyone want to seriously answer that one. >
  
  it's overkill considering the logistics required for just a single abrams on the field compared to many other models that other countries are offering, is a big one. There is very little benefit to give them abrams vs giving them bradleys, as far as anti tank weaponry goes (something the US just signed off on). it's got a lot more specialized training and materials required to maintain an Abrams as well compared to the leopard, for starters it has a turbine engine instead of a diesel. >
  
  That says something about the Abrams doesn't it.
  Its beginning to look like the primary purpose of the abrams was to grease palms of contractors rather than be an effective fighting vehicle. >
  
  The Abrams is min/maxed on winning tank duels.
  There's a time and place where the ability to defeat 3 T-72's is absolutely worth the extra weight, fuel, and maintenance.
  It's NEVER worth it if you don't actually have the fuel, maintenance chain, and road weight capacity to drive the damn thing into the fight. >
  
  RemindMe! 6 months >
  
  Just fucking send them! >
  
  Does Germany still make Tigers? >
  
  No, but Rheinmetall will soon be building Panthers again. >
  
  Panther KF51 
  
  The Panther KF51 is a German main battle tank that is under development by Rheinmetall Landsysteme (part of Rheinmetall's Vehicle Systems division). It was unveiled publicly at the Eurosatory defence exhibition on 13 June 2022. KF is short for "Kettenfahrzeug", i. e.
  
  ^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5) >
  
  So we’re at the “won’t rule out” stage. Maybe in a few years we’ll reach the “feasibility study” stage. >
  
  This war has been such a boon to arms makers...the back stock is now cleared out all the way to North Korea...somewhere a WW2 bomb made to bomb Berlin is sitting in a sunflower field, as a dud... >
  
  Well when then?
  All well an good not ruling it out....but seems a hell of a tease unless there is a plan. >
  
  Such things tend get decided in advance without telling the public. You need to train the crews and mechanics. Notice how IFV thing just suddenly got announced and three nations are already committed to it. It was clearly decided months in advance with Ukrainian troops being trained before the announcement.
  So if Leopords happen, they will happen behind closed doors and will be announced right before delivery.