comment: >
  
  Tbh no matter how well the parents may teach their kids, they turn out bad...
context: While you aren't wrong, it's still up to parents to keep their kids under control in public. I have 2 small kids and my 6 year old can get loud sometimes. >
  
  The issue seems to be getting a lot worse.
  From my observations as well as research on related topics it seems like the pervasiveness of smart devices among young kids plays a large role. There have been several studies demonstrating significantly decreased emotional regulation because parents are giving iPads / iPhones to their kids when they're upset to distract them instead of having the kid learn to deal with and navigate their own emotions.
  Smart devices are also often being used as a tool to get kids to piss off and be quiet when they're behaving badly (no-one wants to deal with tantrums) instead of taking the time to deal with and discipline the kid. The same thing occurs when kids are hyperactive - instead of being given a talking to and learning the boundaries of obnoxious behaviour, kids are instead given iPads to entertain them.
  None of that even begins to examine the consequences that constant instant gratification will have on their brains from such a young age; kids and teenagers already have huge trouble with understanding the consequences of their actions as it is. We may have entire generations incapable of sitting down and studying because all they've ever known is click -> dopamine.
  Diagnoses of adhd have gone way up and while some of it is due to heightened awareness there's a good amount of evidence that it's being overdiagnosed. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the main contributors. >
  
  I worked with 12-18 month-olds and they knew what an iPad was. We would have music and dance time for about 10 minutes and we would show the screen because it usually had the dance with it. They didn't touch it, some would look but not care, but I remember one kid that would just stop what he was doing and stare. When we turned the screen off he would start crying. We still played music, just without the video. I really tried to limit how much video was being shown because of that one kid. >
  
  I just blame both, I think the fact there’s a debate about it shows fault lies on both sides and there isn’t an unequivocal correct answer >
  
  But it is the parents fault if they don’t do anything to teach their kids. Now of course sometimes parents can do nothing to mollify their kids at the time the tantrum is happening, but they can educate their kids afterwards.
  No one else can do that, least of all the child themselves (age dependent). >
  
  100% agree, people also need to stop doing that with dogs. The dog is to blame when it acts shitty not sOmE oWnErS aRe BaD argument only. It’s BOTH. >
  
  While I tend to agree with you, what serial killer had good, loving, percents with a nice upbringing? >
  
  Tbh no matter how well the parents may teach their kids, they turn out bad... >
  
  It's the parents fault as long as the kids are kids.  Once they're old enough to be out and about doing their own thing as an adult, what they do is on them.  100% >
  
  Up to the point of adolescence, it is the parent's fault for failing to keep kids in line. The kid you are referring to is old enough to know better so I agree with you. 
  However, your definition of loving parents seems to derive from the common misconception about good parenting. Being nice and loving parents is not the same as being good parents. It is so much easier to just smile to save face and wish bad things go away than to go through the stress of teaching your kid responsibility. 
  And since you brought up serial killers, ignoring symptoms or signs of trouble in the minds of their children is.. a form of abuse for there are signs, crazy amounts of silent signs you missed during many years of upbringing. >
  
  It's partially the parents' fault. Sometimes the kid and parents just can't help it, though. That's why there are behavioral therapists. >
  
  If a toddler is acting out in public its the parents fault. But I'm talking about the children that have to be accompanied by an adult in public. 
  Once a human being is old enough to go out and about by themselves... they are responsible for their own actions because they should know better. >
  
  ...from.....The parents? Who do you think is responsible of educating them? >
  
  I have not seen one example of a bad kid where the parents weren’t at fault. Narcissists and other assholes are incredibly good at looking like perfect parents/people. >
  
  Yeah it irks me that it's the go-to opinion whenever we see kids/teens that have done the worst in the news... like the typical school shooter.  I'd agree that it's not always the fault of bad parenting.  I think people just don't want to admit that some kids are just inherently bad... natural sociopaths.... they don't want to admit that the concept of a "bad seed" is very real.  Some are shitty, evil people by default, and nothing was ever going to change that.  It's odd to me that so many people pretend they have not seen actual examples of this in person. >
  
  How do I tell you I'm not a parent without telling you I'm not a parent. >
  
  I agree with you.
  It IS usually the parents fault, but the little shit is perfectly capable of making decisions. Often they just make the wrong ones. 
  I don't think enough responsibility is placed on the individual for their life choices in ANY walk of life at the moment. But fixing the problem is hard. >
  
  sometimes you just get a dud. it’s an under spoken risk of having kids for sure. >
  
  "It's the parents fault" is a nuclear-family-based sentiment. I've been in places where unrelated adults would remind a child how to behave, it seems healthier that way since the child realizes there is a general adult consensus. It's not just parents enforcing things for no reason. >
  
  You keep saying that. >
  
  Most of what you say is correct, unfortunately this is lack of manners and respect for other people which is most definitely taught at home.  It it very possible this behavior did come from his peers but it also shows a lack of self awareness or reflection. Selfishness is not human nature it is a trait that had to be learned.
  Source: 12 year vapor and the only time I do something like this I just forgot where I was but usually catch myself.
  Our values don't just fall from the sky, I would be willing to bet this person also gets upset when his burger takes to long and starts cursing out employees and probably never tells a server thank you. >
  
  Selfishness is absolutely in our nature, I’m not sure what you’re on about. Selflessness is a learned trait. That’s why toddlers throw tantrums when they don’t get their way. Some people grow out of that with a mix of nature and nurture. Some don’t >
  
  Yeah, selfishness is an animal trait and humans are an animal.
  That is why it is important to actually teach children how to behave and appropriate behavior. >
  
  Why are you so offended by vaping? Doesn't affect you at all. >
  
  It smells. 
  And before you say it smells nice. Dude, I’m fine with most of those smells but people are different. Did you know some people are into foul smells? It’s good to them.
  It’s fine, you can vape but then I’ll fart all the time >
  
  Does it? I've been around vapers and never noticed the smell at all >
  
  No, the raspberry flavoured oil that you ignite to convert it into vapour that clouds into the room doesn’t smell, ever.
  We’ve must’ve been mistake.
  Man there are some seriously bored people on the planet. Your like this girl. >
  
  Right. We'd be better if everyone was overly sensitive and thought they were the center of the world. >
  
  Like the girl on the train? Not sure >
  
  No, like they people who bitch about other people because they want to ride the same train while not liking the smell of rasberries. >
  
  I don't want anyone to conform, nor do I demand that anyone conform. People can do what they want so long as not physically imposing or acting unjustly toward anyone else. If I don't like it, I can take another train or suffer through it. >
  
  What age is the line drawn for 'it the parent's fault" and "be reasonable for your actions". as children did need to be taught. Behaviour is learned if you let toddlers get away with everything because they are young and cute they will walk all over you and then as they grow up they will get out of control as they have had no discipline or borders set. >
  
  For the majority of childhood the main factors influencing a child’s behaviour will be the genetics they inherit from their parents and the environment their parents provide. Some children will absolutely be more difficult to deal with but as a parent, it’s your job to work out how to make their life, and the lives of the people who have to interact with them, as functional as possible. This decreases a little as children grow into young adults but a good parent would step their game up even further in the teen and young adult years to make sure their kid has every bit of support and resource they might need to be happy, healthy, and well adjusted. 
  I think there can absolutely be parents who are doing a great job and still have a child with behavioural issues, especially where disabilities are involved but most of the time I blame, at least partially, inadequate parenting for issues. 
  This doesn’t make them bad people, parenting is harder than most people seem to think it is judging by how many people just have a bunch of kids despite having serious issues themselves. 
  Also almost every serial killer documentary I’ve ever watched has involved some kind of abuse/instability/unhealthy dynamic in childhood. Plus psychopathy has a genetic component. >
  
  Most people are not only lazy thinkers, they love to put others down any chance they get.
  Most people suck, and are not fit to judge a pissing contest.
  Some kids are born bad.  Things can happen in the womb no one can do anything about.    Environmental damage can happen both in and out of the womb.   There are lead particles everywhere now, thanks to Thomas Midgley, Charles Kettering and General Motors, may they all burn in hell. >
  
  100 % agreed. I once saw a post in another sub about a 9-year old kid who was suspected of killing his mom (I don’t remember the details or if he’d actually done it, but he was the suspect).
  Wouldn’t you know it, a LOT of the comments were ones who felt bad for the KID. Things like ”Ohh he must’ve been mistreated :(” etc etc, when afaik, there was no evidence that the mom had ever been abusive to him.
  What really did it for me was when one commenter called the suspect a ”poor little dude” and wished him well.
  If he ended up actually being innocent, then great, I wish him well too in that case.
  But if he was the one who really killed his own mom, then screw his feelings, and I hope (against hope) that he’s in prison. >
  
  Honestly? I think it completely depends on the age, because it’s not about the kid’s natural attitude but the parents controlling the kid. If the kid is 10 years old, then it’s mainly parents fault, because it’s literally a child and he/she/they can’t really understand a lot of things, as a parent you have to control your child because they’ll never learn alone a lot of life lessons, but if the kid is a 16 years old person it’s not about parents, it’s about them. You can’t really control a 16 yo kid like a 10 yo one without becoming abusive, you can’t ground them every time they do something wrong, at a certain point it’s their fault if they do something stupid and unless they don’t do something illegal, you should just let them behave or they’ll hate you and will do everything behind your back. Just let kids do stupid things, they need to understand the consequences to their actions or they’ll never grow up. >
  
  While you aren't wrong, it's still up to parents to keep their kids under control in public. I have 2 small kids and my 6 year old can get loud sometimes. >
  
  The issue seems to be getting a lot worse.
  From my observations as well as research on related topics it seems like the pervasiveness of smart devices among young kids plays a large role. There have been several studies demonstrating significantly decreased emotional regulation because parents are giving iPads / iPhones to their kids when they're upset to distract them instead of having the kid learn to deal with and navigate their own emotions.
  Smart devices are also often being used as a tool to get kids to piss off and be quiet when they're behaving badly (no-one wants to deal with tantrums) instead of taking the time to deal with and discipline the kid. The same thing occurs when kids are hyperactive - instead of being given a talking to and learning the boundaries of obnoxious behaviour, kids are instead given iPads to entertain them.
  None of that even begins to examine the consequences that constant instant gratification will have on their brains from such a young age; kids and teenagers already have huge trouble with understanding the consequences of their actions as it is. We may have entire generations incapable of sitting down and studying because all they've ever known is click -> dopamine.
  Diagnoses of adhd have gone way up and while some of it is due to heightened awareness there's a good amount of evidence that it's being overdiagnosed. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the main contributors. >
  
  I worked with 12-18 month-olds and they knew what an iPad was. We would have music and dance time for about 10 minutes and we would show the screen because it usually had the dance with it. They didn't touch it, some would look but not care, but I remember one kid that would just stop what he was doing and stare. When we turned the screen off he would start crying. We still played music, just without the video. I really tried to limit how much video was being shown because of that one kid. >
  
  I just blame both, I think the fact there’s a debate about it shows fault lies on both sides and there isn’t an unequivocal correct answer >
  
  But it is the parents fault if they don’t do anything to teach their kids. Now of course sometimes parents can do nothing to mollify their kids at the time the tantrum is happening, but they can educate their kids afterwards.
  No one else can do that, least of all the child themselves (age dependent). >
  
  100% agree, people also need to stop doing that with dogs. The dog is to blame when it acts shitty not sOmE oWnErS aRe BaD argument only. It’s BOTH. >
  
  While I tend to agree with you, what serial killer had good, loving, percents with a nice upbringing?