comment: >
context: That sure is a 60%. Almost HHKB but a 2u backspace.
  Maybe hop off the hype train tho >
  
  No no no, don't you see, this is actually a tenkeyless, navless, arrowless, frowless full size with an added touch panel and an hhkb bottom row >
  
  I appreciate trying new things, but I don't see a better 65% here.  I see a HHKB with a broken layout and an impractical gimmick.
  I think if people wanted touchpads, we would see a lot more of those Apple Magic Touchpads on people's desks.  As it stands, I don't know a single office professional that uses one of those.
  I mean, at least add the option for the split backspace? >
  
  I do see a lot of the touchpads. People who know all the swipe gestures love it. >
  
  I used to use them all in college, but that was mostly a profuct of living on my macbook with no peripherals in order to be able to move and set up faster.  Havent missed them since, cant imagine wanting one on my desk.
  I'd almost prefer an itty bitty joystick or something.  Maybe opposite a volume knob for symmetry? >
  
  It is closer to a 60% or HHKB + arrows.
  Calling it a 65% is just misleading on an other level. >
  
  It is indeed not a 65%, but a layout where we retain some fundamental user habits of most 65%. It is simplified from 65% and that's why we call it 65 Less. >
  
  This is not any form of a 65%. It is a modified HHKB with touchpad. >
  
  For people who spend time, money and effort on perfecting the feel and sound of mechanical buttons, I can’t think of anything worse than replacing some of them with a touchpad. 
  But that’s just me and I’m not in the business of selling keebs so what do I know, hope you’re able to find the market for these. Good luck. >
  
  I'm NOT a fan of touch pads but I can see how with that placement the left/right can start to feel more natural after a while of use. I'd definitely be willing to give it a try. For me at least the placement makes it look easier to hit Left and Right with my thumbs than it currently is with my pinky. >
  
  While I totally agree, this “layout” also alienates any wrist rest user. It is unique and I’m happy to see new things, but I don’t think this is what the community is looking for. (I also could be out of touch 🤷🏻‍♂️) >
  
  It may work well with a split wrist rest, but I do see what you mean. >
  
  Bad idea made reality >
  
  I see the folks at Angry Miao still can't count, nor use proper layout definitions. Furthermore, it would be very interesting to see the project going forward since this is a carbon copy of an implementation that has literally a live international patent. 
  GG >
  
  It already sold in china...so this isn't really an interest check either >
  
  facts >
  
  This is a 60%. The % is about the number of physical keys and the size, it has nothing to do with the functionality. By this keyboard’s logic, all cell phones have a built in 100% keyboard
  A 65% having an FN key doesn’t make it a 75%, a 60% having a touchpad doesn’t make it a 65% >
  
  Agreed. That's why we do not think this keyboard fits any layout category though. >
  
  ❌ : HHKB with a (controversial) Touch Panel
  ✅ : AM 65 Less >
  
  
  
  Most 65% boards offer 2U and split BS for a reason. If split BS wasn’t so common they wouldn’t go through the trouble of doing it. 
  
  
  Anyone that has used layers for 5 seconds can see how pressing 2 keys easily accessible through your home row position is easier than using a gimmicky touchpad in the front face of the keyboard - so that’s not an ergonomic nor functional change. 
  
  
  If you had marketed the board with its unique features rather than claiming how “innovative” it is, I think people would’ve liked it more. It’s just a 2U backspace HHKB with a touchpad >
  
  What's the front height of the board? Cuz it looks like it's gonna be pretty high from the looks of the video. I imagine most people would need to use a wrist rest for this board....but then that will block the touch panel. >
  
  I don’t think adding a touch bar makes HHKB more practical. It already was perfectly practical. Some people don’t want to use layers to get to nav keys, and some people are fine with it. It feels like the touchpad is going to be a gimmick that the vast majority of users will try once and then either shelf this board because they can’t get used to a HHKB layout or they will continue to use it as a standard HHKB. >
  
  The layout indeed looks like an HHKB, but actually originates from 65% and seeks to simplify it. Arrow keys are crucial in 65% layout so we'are trying our best to make the touch panel practical but not just a gimmick. 
  In this video we even used the touch panel to play GTA San Andreas.
  And here we we demoed swipe & hold to control volume and press forward/backward a video clip.
  In terms of sensitivity, you can get about 80-90% experience of traditional arrow keys. This is a number we still want to further improve upon. >
  
  It's really frustrating when companies try to come in and relabel things to fit their narrative. It confuses new members and alienates established members that use those layouts, because according to you HHKB layouts originate from 65, and there's nothing further from the truth. 
  Here's the thing. It is an HHKB. It doesn't originate from a 65. You wanted to take the HHKB looks and add some sort of top level arrow keys, so you added a touchbar. Saying that it originates from a 65 is just not true. HHKB refers first to the layout, while this doesn't have traditional HHKB's split backspace, it does have the signature 1-1.5-7-1.5-1 HHKB bottom row. However just because it's full split doesn't mean that it originates from a 65. Plenty of people use full backspace with HHKB layouts. Almost every single HHKB custom supports it, except for fixed layout hotswap boards. It's not a 65. >
  
  Mega agree, 65% typically also has the nav cluster go delete, pg up, Pg dn, and end….this “65%” doesn’t have any of those. It is absolutely stupid to add “arrow keys” and call a HHKB a 65% >
  
  Is it just me or programmable 40% seems more practical? >
  
  DO YOU LIKE COST PROHIBITIVE EXPENSIVE AND POORLY FUNCTIONING GIMMICKS? WELL WE HAVE ANOTHER BOARD FOR YOU. FROM THE CREATORS OF THE CYBERBOARD AND THAT 1500$ ALICE THING NO ONE GAVE A SHIT ABOUT >
  
  💀 >
  
  How is this better than using SpaceFN? >
  
  Personally, I feel anything in the world is better than SpaceFN. This looks like an interesting concept to me. I may find myself not liking it later, but ATM I find it appealing and looks like it may be massively more comfortable and faster to use. I find switching layers  for arrow keys an annoyance I can ever get used to. >
  
  Interesting board! The touch panel in AM 65 Less function as arrow keys in layer 1, but not the sames as the ones on this board or laptops.
  Kindly check here and here for the demos of the touch panel:) >
  
  I mean cool ideals, but not as groundbreaking as you guys are thinking. Also trying to say it's a de-cluttered 65% is just pretentious. Just call it what it is, a 60% HHKB with some kinda cool gimmicks strapped on. Also it would tremendously help this project out if you allow for a true HHKB layout to be done with it IMO. >
  
  Fair enough, but we put a lot of thought into this board. Maintaining the fundamental usage habit of 65% on a symmetrical board takes a lot of consideration of what to keep, what to forgo and how to substitute. We took into mind numerous factors, as everyone has different preferences for their board, and came up with what we believe most people will like. 
  To combine hot-swap, in-switch RGB, and cutouts into one PCB, we had to forgo split backspace like on HHKB. However, we are considering adding an optional solder PCB with split backspace support. A true HHKB is something we could consider for a future board. >
  
  Oh don't get me wrong, you can definitely tell you guys put in a lot of thought & work into the board. Also I'm sure it'll be a great board as all of your previous boards have gone over very well with the community. I just think the advertising feels off, I completely get what you're going for & in a prebuilt context it would most likely be pretty revolutionary. Although to the custom community it will probably come off as gimmicky. Since we are already used to programing our keys to whatever we please & finding novel ways to add small screens, touch pads, speakers, etc to our boards.
  I probably came off a bit harsh, so I think it is better put like this. The board is very nice looking, definitely has unique elements, & is something I could see in mine & other long time enthusiasts collections if it is just presented as is. The over the top presentation & saying it's the 65% redefined is gonna leave a bad taste in most enthusiasts mouth IMO. Whatever you guys do though good luck with it moving forward! >
  
  This ~~keyboard~~  layout sure comes with a full BS, cause thats what the designers are doing - fully bullshitting us. >
  
  So you swipe the touch panel right for right down for down etc? or each area is a different command? tbh it feels very gimmicky. >
  
  More practical than HHKB? Thems fighting words buddy >
  
  You killed it with that backspace location. But other than that, it is good to see custom HHKB layouts. (A HHKB user) >
  
  Not just the BS key either.  This layout is a huge head-ache inducing WTF.  And the location of the touchpad... yikes, should have just replaced one of the blockers with a 🕹️. The 'OMG HHKB layout doesn't have arrow keys' meme is so freaking way out of hand. >
  
  You failed at making me believe that this is a 65% but you've unintentionally succeeded in making me appreciate the design philosophy of HHKBs
  ​
  Might I suggest offset arrow keys on the left and right sides? 
  Similar to:
  [<][\^][1u][1u][               SPACE            ][1u][1u][v][>] >
  
  I think it’s pretty dumb to even put 65 in the name of this board because it is absolutely not a 65%. You can’t just slap on a touch panel for arrow keys and call it a 65. It’s missing a bunch of other nav keys that are crucial to 65% users >
  
  100% with you it is indeed not a 65%, but a layout where we retain some fundamental usage habits of most 65%, such as 2U BS in R1 and arrow key on layer 1. It is simplified from 65% and that's why we call it 65 Less. >
  
  There are 2U BS and layer 1 arrow key 60% boards too, so why isn't it called 60 Less? That would be way better match and not misleading like the 65 in the name. You haven't done anything to replace the right side nav keys found on real 65% boards on layer 1 so it's definitely just a 60%/HHKB and has nothing to do with 65% >
  
  HHKB users (including me) accept and like the arrows behind the function key – this is the essence and tragicomedy of this layout. LOL
  The touch bar would be more suitable for range value adjustments (volume/brightness) – at least for me.
  Also, most wrist rest users will not like the placement of the touch bar ;)
  Anyway, I was always impressed by your willingness to bring something new. That's something you should keep doing :) Hopefully, the current form will find enough devotees to make it successful. >
  
  Really appreciated:) ATM we've achieved 80-90% experience of traditional arrow keys, but ofc we're still improving the the touch panel experience.
  Indeed we can can control the LED on the board with the help of the touch panel and it is still at beta stage. By swipe & hold on the touch panel you are able to control volume in some video apps and YouTube.
  It's actually pretty comfortable to type without the wrist rest given its front height meeting the mainstream level. >
  
  Coolio, let's see, let's see! :)
  The linked video is excellent – maybe it would be a good idea to include it as a promo so people can understand the whole concept easier. 
  Good luck! >
  
  Thanks buddy! Yes great suggestion we'll be sharing the video on social media soon:) >
  
  Do you sell a version with a correctly positioned ctrl? That's the main reason why the HHKB is the superior layout. >
  
  Bruh >
  
  sigh. the red and beige one caught my eye but it looks like such a meme, i honestly thought i slept through three months and woke up on the first of april >
  
  advantage of the true HHKB layout is that it centers the spacebar under the homerow – the symmetric MX HHKB layout moves the center of the spacebar about 0.75u to the right of the center of the homerow – ie. deciding whether you want the spacebar symmetric to the case or the homerow
  
  MX HHKB – 7u space – 0.75u offset
  true HHKB – 6u space – 0.25u offset
  “ANSI” HHKB – 6.25u space – 0.125u offset >
  
  Cool, but no thank you >
  
  I like, can it be re-mapped to have the backspace where the hhkb is? Cuz I love that >
  
  hell naw, way too tall to type comfortably and frankly a dumb idea >
  
  but you cant even use a wrist rest because that would block the pad, more of a critique of the weird placement >
  
  As someone who works with Excel everyday using your thumb for arrow keys is just very impractical… >
  
  Cool keyboard but would've had a more positive response if you presented it as it is without comparing to 65% and all the jargon about usability. >
  
  Another miss from angry miao. Whatever they're on, I want some of it. >
  
  This is worse in every way. >
  
  interesting....will it offer spilt backspace? >
  
  Fair enough, as a HHKB user I’m used to the arrow keys my mind defaults to the fn button but a touchpad is a cool feature. Plenty of people will crap on it but keep innovating. >
  
  Appreciated!  We have a more detailed design journey here if you're interested. We'll keeping improving the touch panel experience and make it closer to traditional arrows as possible:) >
  
  The super compact layouts have never been my cup of tea (my sweet spot is between a 75% and a TKL) but I can appreciate innovation. Do they always land their mark? Probably not. But at least we're slowly moving on from just slapping knobs on to every layout imaginable. We're also slowly seeing more keebs adopt LCD/OLED screen additions. This one is a bit left-field though... but still not a bad attempt at something new. >
  
  caps lock?   really? >
  
  More compact than 65% is 60% or 40%. More symmetrical is ortholinear. Don't really feel that we need more layouts. But beautiful renders anyway >
  
  Or, 2u left shift with right arrow cluster. >
  
  Why keep the caps lock? >
  
  This is like calling my HHKB with modtap on the bottom right mod cluster a 65%.  
  This is an HHKB (with 2u backspace) layout with a touchbar. >
  
  I like the idea of the touchpad but it wouldve been a better concept to just call it a 60% with a touchpad with the focus being on the touchpad instead of making it sound like its trying to solve an issue that doesnt exist under the name of popularity of 65% keyboards and lack of diversity. The keyboard seems unique and diverse on its own. >
  
  So I'll just get my wrist rest to use with my new keyboard with its fancy new forward facing touchpad....  Oh.... wait.
  Sorry, this is a silly idea... even if you don't use a wrist rest. 
  Stop trying to re-invent the wheel, and just make nice keyboards. >
  
  I still need my Win key together with AltGR and two Ctrl as well as PgUp / PgDn for scrolling pages w/o excessive use of mouse wheel.
  But what do I know? I don't get the whole HHKB home row ergonomic at all - it keeps me asking: do you guys really need to type so much without moving wrists? Is it any good to your health by further avoiding small movements? Don't you use the mouse at all?
  PS: I do use Ctrl+Shift+PgUp and Ctrl+Shift+arrovs - don't try to tell it would be ergonomic or efficient with layer key - I tried. >
  
  i think it all comes down to user preference. I've been a tkl user for a decade but I switched to a hhkb a couple of years ago and I find that the arrow keys solution is waaay more comfortable for me! I always find it annoying moving my right hand to the arrow keys, yes it's a little bit strange at first having those under a fn key but after a couple of weeks I was flying! >
  
  
  I always find it annoying moving my right hand to the arrow keys
  
  OK, but what about the mouse? >
  
  that's a good point, and again I think it depends on the individual. I mainly code when I'm in front of my pc and there's no much need for a mouse so it's not a problem for me. when I use the mouse I'm usually switching context and doing other stuff where the main tool is the mouse and not the keyboard anymore so who cares about the arrow keys, I need a tool that solves my "problems" in that use case (and that's why I use a trackball and not a mouse but that's another story lol). but that's me, those are my personal pet peeves and thank god we have infinite solutions now so anyone can find exactly what he needs lol >
  
  Of course it's all preference from very start. I just can't believe that all HHKB fans are programmers. IMHO average user spends most of his/her time browsing on-line - i.e. you had to click "Replay" to make your comment here right? >
  
  oh yeah you're right that the average user spends most of the time browsing the Internet but also they usually don't spend 300+ €/$ for a keyboard! unless they just like the aesthetic (and that's a valid choice too). and yes I had to click reply (well I had to tap cause I'm on mobile), but that's not a big of a deal because I'm not coding and I'm already using the mouse anyway. when I write code I personally find more comfy to use that layout but I have A LOT of colleagues that they NEED the dedicated arrow keys and they use the mouse a lot more than me. there's no right or wrong answer here my friend, we're all here to achieve peak performance in our own way. 
  except for the touchscreen to replace physical keys, even apple thought they were smart with that touchbar and we all know how that went lol >
  
  As a 65% user this is a big ol meh for me. >
  
  lol..where were the arrow keys moved again? Screw the layout. More practical my ass. >
  
  they must have felt like they reinvented the wheel with this one >
  
  It’s not April 1st. >
  
  The only nice product that Angry Miao has made is the Cyberboard.... the other stuff is plain ugly and overpriced. This one seems a really silly design >
  
  Cool! >
  
  This dude clearly has never used an HHKB >
  
  Why? >
  
  Anyone who's used HHKB knows there's a much more efficient way of using arrows than the way Angry Miao is trying to implement >
  
  How much and when? >
  
  should be soon and not that costly, compares to Cyberboard or AM AFA. Their discord has some latest updates >
  
  so fucking pretty. >
  
  More info HERE
  ​
  Crazy Designer from Angry Miao here.  Last time we shared a post about to idea to replace the arrow keys with a touch panel. I want to make use of it to create a keyboard that's not only compact but also works well in day-to-day use.
  ​
  This layout indeed isn't 65%. Our aim is to maintain the usage habit of a 65% layout keyboard.
  Check out the video to see how the concept of this new layout expression was born, and what was kept and what was removed.
  This new layout originates from 65% and seeks to simplify it. That's why we call it AM 65 Less.
  ​
  What do you think about our new layout? We would love to hear if you have any further suggestions with regard to the touch panel! And stay tuned, more info about AM 65 Less will be out soon.
  ​
  Join Discord with us! >
  
  I don't get the hate for the touch bar. I think it's a super nice addition to have provided you can map it to whatever function you want. I can see it being great for volume adjustment, scrolling, just a regular shortcut button or gesture control to launch apps etc. It's like having a split spacebar combined with a rotary encoder. It's not necessary by any means but it's nice to have.
  The only drawback I see in the implementation is the absolutely chonky front height. I think the touchbar should have been much slimmer since vertical scrolling will almost never be used as it's too cumbersome. A thin horizontal touchbar would be extremely functional and wouldn't impact ergonomics or aesthetics. >
  
  Really appreciated! We are trying very hard to make the touch panel as close to the traditional arrows as possbile.
  As for the front height it is around 20mm, actually meeting the mainstream level. Typing on it is actually pretty comfortable without wrist rest. 
  To ensure comfortable swipe and touch sensitivity on the touch panel we need to guarantee proper width. Swipe up/down may not be ideal on a slimmer touch panel. >
  
  Any chance you guys can come up with a matching wrist rest contraption, that has the center part carved out somehow, to allow your thumbs to reach the touch bar?
  Not sure how practical it would be when using the touch-bar, but at least it would offer a comfortable wrist position (for wrist-rest users) when typing. >
  
  What is HHKB? I'm new in mechanical and English is not my first language. >
  
  It’s just a different keyboard layout, similar to ANSI and TSANGAN. The most notable difference is the caps lock is replaced by the control key. >
  
  I mean it should exist I guess but I wouldn't buy it.
  Then again I really can't go below TKL if I don't want to put extra steps in my animation workflow >
  
  If the touchpads can be moved to each side of the board I think that would be more accessible. >
  
  Stepmania players punching air right now. >
  
  That’s a thicc boi >
  
  But...what am I supposed to do with my arrow keycaps? How do you expect me to use them on some sort of front-facing touch screen? 
  *mashes keycaps into touch screen until it breaks* >
  
  What is the top height? 30mm?