comment: >
  
  From my experience in the military they’re about to get a lot of Sikh converts.  Homies just want a beard
context: From article:
  
  Three Sikh men sought an exemption from a Marines grooming rule requiring them to shave their beards, with the men arguing it was their expression of commitment to their religious faith. They won.   
  The court said allowing them to do so would have no impact on their duties. The US Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard all accommodate the religious requirements of Sikhism. >
  
  If it doesn’t impact duties why don’t they remove the rule entirely? >
  
  Per the article 
  
  Marine Leadership argued that uniformity was critical to "team mentality," saying recruits were required to follow “the same set of regimented practices" to build cohesion. 
  The Marines argued that recruits needed to be "stripped of their individuality" as part of a "psychological transformation" toward shared sacrifice, the court document read.
  
  I think the uniform requirements were set up in the 1970s from some basic looking up uniform policies for the US Army and Marines, prior to that the established uniform wasn't as strict, however. So some of these policies are only about 50 years old and malleable. >
  
  My high school social studies teacher was a WWII and Korean War vet from Yuba City California, and he'd been allowed to keep his turban and Kirpan when he enlisted in 1943. From what he said I believe the religious exemptions for Sikh articles of faith were removed in the early '80s. Sikhs have served in the US military starting in WWI, and have served in every conflict since. Sikhs had a high rate of service until the changes in the '80s, but rarely serve now because of the restrictions. >
  
  I believe the Army rolled back some of the restrictions before or around 2010 so a Sikh (as well as Muslim or Viking) individual can fill out an ~~AR600-20~~ AR670-1 waiver to keep their hair (I think? I forgot the actual form, if anyone knows and can remind me that'd be appreciated). >
  
  A Viking individual? Is this the 800s? >
  
  There are still some practitioners of Norse Pagan beliefs and they're around, and apparently referred to as Heathens if this article is to reliable. >
  
  Not still. There is no unbroken continued worship of the Norse religion to this day. Most of the practices of that faith are entirely unknown and lost to time. Although people like Snorri Sturluson saw value in preserving mythological content, there's very little in way of describing religious practices like prayers.
  The Norse pagan revivalism is a mix of conjecture based on Snorri's and Adam of Bremen's writings, Tacitus's Germania and Ibn Fadlan's encounter with the Kievan Rus. That, and a bunch of Unverified Personal Gnosis where they sort of wing it, sometimes based on what cool stuff they've seen in Viking movies and video games. 
  It is for all intent and purposes a wholly modern religion based on modern ideas of what we would've liked the religion to be. >
  
  
  It is for all intent and purposes a wholly modern religion based on modern ideas of what we would've liked the religion to be.
  
  Isn't that true for all religions? I'm sure they all changed over time. The pope tolerating homosexuality is just one example. >
  
  Yeah, but the Catholic Church really has been one (mostly) unbroken chain of consistently held hierarchical power for 2,000 year with a billion+ followers today. So there’s more of a through line >
  
  Soo no more policing up those moostaches!? >
  
  Yous got to maintain Marine Corps grooming standurds! >
  
  Shave profile has been relaxed for years. I’m surprised this is even an issue. >
  
  Do SNCOs not appear from the ether to bitch at you for entering the exchange with a 5:00 shadow on a Saturday anymore? >
  
  Been out a few years and I'm always worried Gunny is hiding behind the shopping carts ready to jump out at me if I don't shave when I enter the supermarket. >
  
  God himself can't save you if you're wearing a white undershirt too. >
  
  … are you not allowed to wear white undershirts? >
  
  Not like a plain white t-shirt and jeans, no. But, if you have a pocket on it, then you're cool because it's no longer an undershirt. >
  
  If it's like that, what if you wear two of them? Undershirt is now overshirt. >
  
  If there's anything they like best, it's being a smart ass to skirt the rules >
  
  Don't blame be me, pockets started it. >
  
  The UK Armed Forces have a long tradition of Sikhs serving, dating back to colonial days where they would make up entire Regiments. They have always been permitted to retain their beards. And their uniforms have always been allowed to be modified to replace the beret with a turban. >
  
  Same in Canada. We have Sikh mounties with beards and turbans instead of the famous hats. >
  
  I really hope this eventually leads to a return of civil war era facial hair in the military. >
  
  I want US president with big bad ass beard >
  
  A big badass beard, or a big bad ass beard?
  The distinction is important here. >
  
  I spit my drink laughing at this. Thank you. >
  
  Is this news from a decade ago? I've seen bearded Sikhs for years in the military >
  
  In the army yes. The marines are...special children. >
  
  Yeah, they ride on their own… special bus. >
  
  They get their own... special... non-toxic crayons. >
  
  They already serve in the militaries of India, Britain, Canada, and Austria. >
  
  Get some of those Sikh recruits to slip the mess hall some recipes. No one knows how to feed a big group of people some amazing food like the Sikhs.  You might even get a few crayon eaters to develop a little respect for other cultures. >
  
  Isn’t the reason usually said as a beard prevents a proper seal on a gas mask? >
  
  I wouldn't call it questionable.  "The effect of facial hair on the face seal of negative-pressure respirators, both half-masks and full facepieces, has been investigated. Three hundred and seventy (370) male employees were fit tested both qualitatively and quantitatively. Of these, sixty-seven (67) had fully established beards varying in length, shape, density and texture. Bearded subjects consistently failed the qualitative fit test protocol. Quantitative fit testing with half-mask respirators indicated that bearded employees had a median fit factor of 12 (8% leakage). A median fit factor of 2950 (0.03% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. An average two hundred and forty-six (246) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees. With full facepiece respirators, the bearded employees had a median fit factor of 30 (3% leakage). A median fit factor of greater than 10 000 (less than 0.01% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. At least a three hundred and thirty (330) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees. Results indicate that the presence of a beard greatly increases the leakage through the respirator face seal, and this leakage should not be permitted when employees are required to wear respirators."
  Though I do think we should be allowed to have neatly trimmed beards in the military. If the risk of life comes up (combat with CBRN threat) then require the beard to be shaved. >
  
  During COVID many Sikh doctors shaved for better mask seals. They are allowed to break their own rules of it is to help save people's lives. >
  
  I mean there isn’t really any Sikh pope or something to sign off on those kinds of things and give permission. They just did it on their own, no permission needed, only god knows if it was necessary or not. Plenty of other Sikh doctors didn’t shave either >
  
  It's literally written in the guru granth sahib that they can break their rules for just reasons. >
  
  What about the daggers? Can they keep them too? Would look sick. >
  
  Daggers and beards will definitely look Sikh af. >
  
  Sikh’s are kinda awesome. Glad. >
  
  Before this entire thread turns into a shit pit, do know Sikhs are well known to be excellent soldiers. You would want them to be your battle brother and they make a mean meal out from mre without meats. >
  
  Was gonna say, aren’t Sikh fighters known for their battle prowess? >
  
  Yeah, literally their MO is like "we are great warriors and could kick your ass at any time. But we're going to make a point not to. Because violence is bad, we're really nice, and also we'd win." >
  
  Warrior monks is how someone once described the Sikhs. >
  
  Isn’t that thumbnail of the army though? >
  
  Looks like west point cadets >
  
  Other militaries allow beards - the US allows beards for special forces and other operators, so the "gas mask won't seal" argument goes out. When I was in AF, we never had a gas mask. Only time I touched one was during the gas chamber training. 
  As long as it's well groomed, let people wear beards. >
  
  More like special forces just doesn't give a fuck >
  
  I don’t know why you were down voted this is true. SF aren’t going to be holding a building or taking a city. They go in and out, chemical weapons aren’t really something they are worried about >
  
  
  They go in and out, chemical weapons aren’t really something they are worried about
  
  If you move really fast the gas can't get you. Also Special Forces can absolutely stay deployed in one spot for extended periods of time, especially if they are embedded with local forces >
  
  “US Marines” but has a photo of West Point? Graduation Ceremony… >
  
  The corps is incredibly anal about uniformity.     It’s 40 degrees out for pt and someone doesn’t have full sweats?    Green on green shorts and tees.     It’s 40 degrees and raining out and we’re working outside all day and one guy doesn’t have gloves?    Well now they aren’t authorized uniform. >
  
  Why would they make that bar?
  Sikhs have a long tradition of being some of the finest soldiers in the World. 
  They serve with beards and turbans in the Grenadier Guards and look just a spanking on Parade without bearskins and certainly no less proficient. The British army even issue a Sikh prayer book but I suppose having that have a long tradition of Sikh soldiers and regiments helps >
  
  For anyone interested men shaving their beards wasn’t as common a style until after WW1 because you needed to be clean shaven to have your gas mask seal properly. Shaving every day is a holdover from that war 100 years later. >
  
  Is this a picture from a west point graduation? >
  
  I was in the USMC and all I can say is, it’s about damn time. >
  
  I'm sure what follows is going to be a calm, logical discussion about grooming standards in the military >
  
  You apparently have no idea what the religious waiver process is. >
  
  More sikhs in the army = better army. 
  Do the math folks, they come from a warrior caste. >
  
  We need a strong disciplined military. There is zero reason to accept less. Like it or not, that’s key. Now, does a beard REALLY detract? Are they holding back because what’s next? I’m sure it’s not systemic racism. Right? If so, they need to work past that. If this country can entertain making women beasts of reproduction at the bequest of a subset of 1 religion, the Marines can accept the personal choice to wear a beard by a group of men willing to support the US constitution, despite its inherent flaws. >
  
  Now here in the States, some men in this Unit may experience discrimination because of race or creed. But for you and me now, all that is gone. We're moving into the 'valley of the shadow of death' -- where you will watch the back of the man next to you, as he will watch yours. And you won't care what color he is or by what name he calls God. >
  
  Well... keep in mind: 
  Canadian forces faced this EXACT question, but MUCH earlier than the USA (since Canada has more open immigration policies), when a couple of decades ago Sikh's wanted to loyally serve in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), while wearing turbans. 
  But as you know, traditionally for a couple of centuries, RCMP always wore very iconic "outfits", especially in modern times at formal ceremonies. 
  In that case, the higher courts of Canada ALSO in their wisdom, decided that it was perfectly ok for Sikhs to wear turbans, and be RCMP members, and also participate in traditional uniform ceremonies with their turbans. 
  
  The end result: did the very fabric of Canadian society unravel and get wiped out?! No it did not! 
  What happened was: a pretty small and few number of dudes in the RCMP decided to wear their turbans over the last couple of decades! 
  That's it. Nothing else happened. 
  And thus... turns out: It was no big deal! 
  
  Anyways... look: 
  Like it or not, humanity is moving ever more faster and faster towards an increasingly highly intermixing global planetary culture, that is an amalgamation of multiple cultural influences. 
  And the main nation responsible for driving all of this is ever increasing intermixing global culture? The USA! 
  We already had a flash sneak peak of what happens when you mix so many cultures like this, USA style. 
  It's what made America so great in the late 1800's and 1900's... and it's an experiment that is also known as: 
  The Great Melting Pot! 
  
  The end result? 
  America took the best energies/ideas/practices from a massive MULTITUDE of cultures, combined them, and then rose up as the world's defacto super-power, and has effectively remained so ever since! 
  American culture, technology, inventions have swept across the globe, and transformed every single nation on Earth, and continues to do so (again: whether you like it or not! America is impacting your life, and continues to do so). 
  
  In conclusion: 
  If some Sikh's in the US marines want to hold strong to wearing beards... then just let them! 
  Who the f'ck cares!? 
  I'm sure the US marines will find the same end result as the Canadian RCMP: 
  In the end, it didn't even really f'cking matter, or make much of any difference! 
  In Canada: a few guys wore turbans. That's all that happened. 
  
  And so, I suppose: 
  If the very idea of a guy with a beard, or a guy that grows his hair longer than you grow your hair, and also wraps his hair in a cloth... 
  Actually sounds super insanely frightening and threatening to you... 
  And destabilizes your inner core as a person... then whelp... 
  What can I really say, except to seek counselling, and/or find some way to have more confidence in yourself, and not be so easily frightened by a beard, or a piece of cloth! 
  You as a person and everything you stand for is NOT going to be overthrown because some dudes like longer beards! >
  
  I just searched images of RCMP officers in turbans and it was just as I suspected : its a badass look!
  I also noticed the RCMP is allowing officers to wear hijabi which is also cool. >
  
  I know there was a lot of push back against allowing hijabi among police officers in the US. The general excuse was that they posed a hazard, as people can grab on to them fairly easily. 
  I don't know if that was actually a real problem or one they made up because they didn't like Muslims. I remember at least one instance where it did actually result in injury to a police officer, but, iirc, it was because they specifically targeted her because she was wearing one. >
  
  It’s been a whole week since Reddit comments reminded me how “bad ass” Sikh are thanks to a random news article. I almost forgot. >
  
  You poor thing, how will you ever survive?? >
  
  You need Sikhs for Sikh and destroy missions. >
  
  I think the rules have to be the same for everyone no matter what
  In Canada you have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle unless you’re Sikh. I’m fine with being inclusive, but that means no one has to wear a helmet >
  
  I’m Canada literally every other male has a full grown beard in the military. I’m surprised this is even an issue. They give out shaving chits like candy. They tel the doctors they get a rash when they shave then they don’t have to. >
  
  Then  just let everyone have beards. >
  
  I’m happy about everyone being respectful but this really is the problem, there are a set of requirements to join that institution and everyone should abide by it or no one should. >
  
  Agreed. The organization has a rule or it doesn't. If your religion is a barrier to you following an organization's rule, then your religion is a barrier to your participation in said organization. >
  
  I want to agree with you, but this is not a private organization, it's a federal agency.
  And, according to the first amendment, Congress shall make no law regarding religion. The beard is a show of religious adherence, so it also needs to be allowed under that amendment. >
  
  Does that mean if there was a religion where you have to bring your brother along wherever you go that the brother would be allowed to come along because that's a show of religious adherence and the rule that says no is also coming from congress? >
  
  I'm not sure what one thing has to do with the other? They knew they'd have to shave before joining, they may not have known the only guns they'd have available would be made from cow hide and that's assuming they weren't conscripted which means they didn't consent in the first place. >
  
  Isnt the being shaved thing about saving the life of the soldier if they have to throw on a gas mask? cant get a tight seal with a beard >
  
  Some of the most fearsome fighters in the British Armies were the Sikhs. >
  
  That’s pretty sick🤘good for them >
  
  Black men, because of irritation, aren’t even forced to shave. This doesn’t feel like news >
  
  Reddit taking an entirely different stance on this now that it’s not ‘those guys’. >
  
  I remember a month ago the exact same story about Jewish and Muslim firefighters and the comments were much more against them. >
  
  That’s exactly the article I’m referring to as well. >
  
  These are the guys you want to go to war with, literally a military caste. >
  
  Isn't there also like, a very large number of Sikhs in the US military compared to their population? Seems like a smart idea to just always give them religious exemptions without fighting >
  
  Some of the reason military men have shaved faces and close haircuts is for utility.  It is possible to get a beard caught, in a rifle action, for instance.  Also, in hand-to-hand combat ... beard hair or head hair can be grabbed and used against you.  Also, beard hair prevents a gas mask from fitting properly when in a NBC attack. >
  
  Just find this all a bit backwards and should have been permitted a long time ago. My service has permitted beards for all the guys for a couple years now and strangely things haven't gone to hell >
  
  Lets do a few gas mask drills with CS gas >
  
  Strangely enough last time it was fine, though some others did shave for the check >
  
  They need to get rid of the facial hair regs and the hair it regs. When I was active Marines, I hated doing gloomy take with the Royal Marines and other countries cause they got have facial hair and longer hair… the US identity brainwashing uniformity it’s just some bullshit >
  
  Why wouldn’t they?  The Sikh Regiment is the most highly decorated in the Indian Army.  These people are ready-made badasses and I bet make exceptional Marines. >
  
  Actual Marines don’t have a problem with this. Keyboard MAGA warriors, who have never stepped up to serve in the military are the ones making this an issue. Stay mad. >
  
  This cannot be stressed enough. 
  99% of Marines don’t care. >
  
  There was an issue in Canada years ago (1990s). The Royal Canadian Legion forbade headwear on its premises unless it was part of the wearer’s military unit. 
  And so they banned turban-wearing Sikh WWII veterans, who had fought ferociously for the Allies wearing turbans. 
  A legal challenge was launched by this guy, a Lt. Col. who was denied entrance to a British Columbia legion on Remembrance Day. 
  Turns out the rationale behind the ban was simply that they were angry old racists who didn’t like foreign-looking people. The ban was overturned in court. >
  
  Good luck trying to get a good seal on a gas mask. >
  
  Sikh here, we usually tie up our beards tightly. Doesn’t get in the way of anything. My grandfather is a Navy Vet, he stills ties his beard up every morning just like he would be in the navy. >
  
  Not a single marine in the picture >
  
  Gas masks, anyone? How would you get a clean seal with hair? >
  
  What about the MOPP protective mask? >
  
  If someone could clear this up for me. I know very little about the Sikh religion except that they are (or most are) non violent to the point they don’t eat meat since that’s harming another creature. 
  Why would they be joining the marines? >
  
  They carry a Kirpan which is a dagger and one of their five articles of faith. It symbolises a Sikh's duty to come to the defence of those in peril. All Sikhs should wear the kirpan on their body at all times as a defensive side-arm, just as a police officer is expected to wear a side-arm when on duty. Its use is only allowed in the act of self-defense and the protection of others. It stands for bravery and protecting the weak and innocent. >
  
  please don’t compare Sikhs to cops .. one is obliged to defend those who can’t defend themselves…  the other is constitutionally protected from having to.. >
  
  Marine here, the reason we shave everyday is to ensure the gas mask has appropriate seal on it. I see no problem allowing beards as long as the bearded Marines understand the risk. >
  
  Actually the DOD has done testing with the M50 promask recently due to religious exemption for beards and have shown that a proper seal can still be applied with a beard. I’ll try and find the study and link it >
  
  Honestly, having a Sikh in your unit is like having a fucking space marine.  Let them do whatever the fuck they want. >
  
  Marines bully other marines who try to stand out. It’s likely that even allowed, DI’s will still probably single them out and mercilessly antagonize them for keeping the beard to make them “voluntarily” leave if they aren’t past training. They’re not gonna have a fun time. >
  
  I think anybody that's willing and able should be allowed to join. >
  
  All religion continues to be a stain on the history of the world. Common sense and practical rules and laws having to bend over backwards to accommodate utterly ridiculous religious etiquette. Wearing stupid clothes, eating certain foods, outlawing sexual preferences and marriage. Cannot wait til we collectively mature as a species and stop believing in made up bullshit. >
  
  While I 100% agree with you… We must either make an exception for all
  or none… >
  
  Religion should have no right in the military, pray to your imaginary friends on your own time >
  
  Agreed. And, the military needs to get out of the hairstyle business, too! WTF is it with no beards? I served 21 years, and the only time a beard would have been a problem was wearing gas masks. For that, I would have shaved, if there were a threat. 
  No. I don’t mean that time I deployed for the ‘weapons of mass destruction’ lie in Iraq. That wasn’t a valid chemical threat deployment. It was just a ‘Ukraine has Nazis’ type thing. >
  
  
  For that, I would have shaved, if there were a threat.
  
  But will Sikh men make the same choice?  Don't they believe God forbids them from shaving? >
  
  The only issue with beards are gas masks not being able to seal. So it is what it is. >
  
  Why isn't that an issue with all of the militaries who allow beards and also use similar or the same masks? >
  
  There are two main reasons beards aren't allowed in the military.  The first is to keep a professional appearance within the military.  In this instance this is kind of stupid and this argument can be tossed out when talking about Sikh recruits and their beards.  I don't think a Sikh military member looks any less professional just because they wear a beard. The other argument, and one that should be taken seriously, is that a beard CAN prevent an air tight seal with your gas mask.   If you want a fun little experiment to prove the effects hair has with a seal, shave your ass and see how farting goes vs before you shaved.
  A beard won't always prevent a seal with a gas mask, but it certainly doesn't help.  So the solution to this problem is to let them wear their beards if they're at home, or stationed somewhere that isn't in a war zone.  But if they're going to be deployed where combat is possible, the beards have to go. Minimizing risk is priority number one, because if one soldier or Marine goes down, that's bad enough, but then more have to stop what they're doing to help the one that dropped, and now you have an entire Fireteam or part of a squad all fucked, all in more danger than they previously were. All because someone didn't want to shave. And that's a little silly >
  
  Bro we allow beards in the Army already. I know like thirty guys with shaving profiles and we allow religious exceptions. The gas mask seal as long as you keep it trimmed to a certain length which is part of the profile. >
  
  the fact that these soldiers put ther religion above their commitment to the Marines is a redflag to their ability to embrace the corp and its fighting spirit imo. >
  
  And it's really hard to get crayons out of beards >
  
  Gas masks will not seal with a beard… >
  
  **American beards.
  Allies of the US that use the same or similar masks and have allowed beards for decades do not encounter this problem without an easy way to resolve it. >
  
  Great, allow religion into a system that's all about efficiency and cutting out anything that compromises it. 
  What a stupid move. >
  
  "...a system that's all about efficiency..."
  HAHAAHAHAHAHAA AHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAAA!
  Fuck me, that was hilarious mate! >
  
  Good, religious freedom isn’t just for Christians >
  
  The act of shaving and removing hair is a psychological dehumanizing tool they use to break new recruits. The practice has NEVER had an impact on an ability to perform duty outside crushing individualism so you can operate as a unit.
  I'm glad the court ruled that >
  
  gas mask wont seal brother >
  
  Not that anyone gives a shit what i think but here goes...
  Religion is a fucking farce and allowing individuals special cases and exceptions for religion is asinine because what the fuck even is a religion. What stops me from wanting an exception because of my made up religion and religious practices. 
  Let's be clear, nobody "can't do something" because their religion forbids it. Either you want to "do something" or you don't. It's a personal choice and you can either deal or the rule is universally removed. Making exceptions is a stupid slippery slope.
  EDIT : Most of the responses and downvotes are missing my point. Yes I firmly believe in the rights afforded by the Constitution and my disdain for all forms of religion is my personal beliefs but that doesn't conflict with the Constitution or the point I'm making. Everyone is not the same religion and what makes something a religion is not easily defined. The US is a secular state so it's laws are not to be bent by religion and that means anybody's religion. So if rules are to be broken or exceptions made because someone claims it is an important facet of their religion then what's the point of the rule. Anyone can claim to follow any religion and it is not and should not and can not be a Judge's job to prove something is a religion (how would you define that Sikhism is a religion but Pastafarianism is not) and then to go and prove that someone is actually a practicing . Anyone can practice any religion they chose but your religion does not grant you special rights over others to not follow laws.  Ultimately my point is if you are making an exception on the beard rule then it's not that important and you should get rid of the rule.  If my religion says that shining bright lights at the ground channels demons and I can't have my headlights on my car at night that doesn't give me the right to drive around with no headlights. >
  
  
  What stops me from wanting an exception because of my made up religion and religious practices.
  
  A judge taking a look at it and deciding that you are just making it up. >
  
  All religions are made up. >
  
  Canada went through this some years ago when a Sikh man became an RCMP officer wearing a turban instead of the hat. People hummed and hawed but the courts ruled the same thing, it made no functional difference and let him do it. It’s something that effects less than 1% of officers maybe?  It’s not common enough to notice or make a difference. >
  
  I don't think I disagree with this ruling at all but it did make me think this: doesn't this mean that the religious person is being treated differently to the rest due to their religion? And is thus a form of discrimination? >
  
  They shouldn’t. Not having a beard isn’t arbitrary. It is so you can effectively use a gas mask during a bio or chemical attack. I am all for religious exemptions for most things, but this one effects combat readiness. >
  
  It effects so many functions at a unit level it’s not even funny. The one guy that can’t wear a gas mask properly are now a liability, if they’re choking or dying now they gotta be dragged off or carried by 1 or 2 other people from the same unit. If you have a squad of 5 guys you’ve taken 2-3 guys out of the fight. Your units effectiveness is reduced by 40-60%. Because one guy can’t put a stupid mask on properly. 
  The rules are there for a reason, leave it to a desk jockey judge to decide rules in a combat environment. 
  Beards don’t protect you and your brothers from gas attacks or a hail of 7.62x39. >
  
  I mean, as long as everyone with a beard (Sikh or otherwise) is made to understand that whey will die when their gas mask fails, and that no time will be wasted trying to save them for their choices, then I guess I don't care. Unless the percentage of bearded marines exceeds, say, one percent I doubt readiness would be compromised. >
  
  Beards prevent a proper mask seal. You’re not even supposed to have a beard wearing an n95. Marines are going to have to wear higher levels of PPE where mask seals are even more important like air purifying respirators or self contained breathing apparatuses. >
  
  Facial hair can break the seal of gas masks, a big reason why the US military still require clean cut (or a mustache that doesn’t go past the edges of your mouth). 
  Although I do like the accommodation in theory, I agree in thinking it’s important to shave in at LEAST basic training. >
  
  When they die because they can't properly fit a gas mask on we can say you got your religious right to do so. Congrats. >
  
  The No beard policy in the US military is complete bullshit and it is even worse that pervy mustaches on the other hand are allowed…
  The usual argument for sealing has masks is nonsense especially when the country isn’t even at war. Nobody on US soil needs to be ready to wear a gas mask at any point in time… >
  
  Marines need to get over themselves >
  
  Banning beards and hair styles is just a stupid form of mental conditioning. I will never understand how someone could think joining the American military is a good idea. >
  
  How secure is a helmet over a turban? >
  
  The fact that a Sikh wants to be a Marine, is fucking awesome. >
  
  Sikh soldiers are badasses.  Let them beard, I say. >
  
  Given Hitler chose his mustache so his face could hold a proper seal on a gas mask in WWI, I'm surprised the military is lax on facial hair choices regardless of any reason. Yeah chemical warfare is banned, but countries still stockpile chemical weapons and gas masks are still issued. >
  
  Often when it comes to beards the military will include a tag line of it being necessary to be clean shaven to form a seal on a gas mask, which is bullshit. I watched several people with no shave chits and full beards wear gas masks without issue. >
  
  Since we give deference to tangentially religious Christians this seems reasonable. That said, how "sikh" do you have to be to grow a beard? I hate shaving. I would have changed my favorite imaginary friend if I didn't need to shave. >
  
  Army has been allowing Sikhs to  have long hair and beards for years.  When I was stationed in Korea in the 1980s we had a Sikh Major who was a dentist. He had long hair and a beard. Sikhs are warriors, and their traditions do not affect their fighting abilities. >
  
  Good. Sikhs are deadly warriors and should be welcomed in our armed forces. Now if we could just enlist Gurkhas… >
  
  That’s fine. If they get gassed and can’t wear a mask, it’s on them and not the military. That’s about the only situation in which it matters, and we thankfully aren’t being presented with that situation very often nowadays. >
  
  It will be sad watching them try to seal their mask if they are exposed to toxic conditions. >
  
  That’s great, but in a environment where the gas mask must be used, if he’s not clean shaven, well, do the math. You need a good seal. >
  
  There should be no religious exemptions in armed service. You join as a soldier not as a Sikh. >
  
  You ever serve? >
  
  As long as you can don and clear a gas mask I guess it shouldn’t be an issue.  But good luck getting a tight seal around facial hair… >
  
  The problem with the marines is they want everyone to look the same and act the same and follow orders. But, I mean if it doesn’t impact performance why not? >
  
  It’s not about “performance” in terms of battlefield performance. It’s about everyone acting as a cohesive unit…and that directly affects the Corps as a whole. But whatever, really. If the Sikh dude wants to give it a go as a devil dog, then let him (or her) do it. >
  
  Somehow this doesn't quite fit right with me. >
  
  In the interest of honest curiosity…. why? >
  
  I guess I'm used to seeing photos of Marines being all men. I know there are women in the Marines and now a man wearing a turban. Times are changing for the composition of the Marines. It's good to see diversity in the military. >
  
  Figuring that loyalty to a country that espouses religious freedoms shouldn’t be punished by forcing them to break their religious customs. >
  
  They weren't forced they volunteered to be there. >
  
  Until the US eliminates the draft the distinction is meaningless. >
  
  I have a feeling those guys will be hazed so much they end up quitting on their own.  They will likely get totally shunned by everyone. >
  
  These guys look so cool, honestly this is a win for the Marine Corps! And of course for Sikhs. >
  
  All fun and games till you gotta wear a gas mask. And seriously, when you join up you should leave that shit at the door.  The military is about uniformity and that uniformity is what makes a team. The most wonderful thing about the military is that it’s the closest thing to equal there is…everyone is treated the same.  
  What about Rastafarians and their hair?  It’s religious. And pastafarians with the colanders on their heads. >
  
  Side question, what about the Yankees? If they signed a sikh, would they have to allow the beard? >
  
  Beards don’t work with gas masks.
  But maybe they’d work with those cool full face respirators? >
  
  It's not just an issue off uniformity. If you have a beard your gas mask may not seal properly rendering you combat incapacitated or even kill you. >
  
  This needs to be appealed to the Supreme Court so that it can be cleared up once and for all that religious freedom was meant to be exclusively for christians.
  Edit: s/ >
  
  My friend, we live in the 21st century. Big pool of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds. If people of the Sikh culture want to serve and put their blood sweat and tears to keep the freedoms we have here in the states I don’t see nothing wrong with this all the power to them, This is coming from a southern conservative. >
  
  So uh... Why lock the door? >
  
  Ridiculous, will nudists be allowed to not wear the uniform? Fucking religion gets a pass for so much. The grooming rules should enter into the decision of entering the military. >
  
  Actual Marines don’t have a problem with this. Keyboard MAGA warriors, who have never stepped up to serve in the military are the ones making this an issue. Stay mad. >
  
  I don’t think they should be allowed to be Marines. >
  
  What sound reason do you have for that? >
  
  It is simple. The Marines are an organisation with rules. I’m sure people are not allowed to join because they are too short, too unfit, or physically disabled. Essentially, they have the right to refuse anyone for any reason. 
  It is only when religion is mentioned that it is somehow precious and now they are Forced by the law to let these gentlemen in. They should be asked to choose whether to be a Marine or a devout Sikh and be allowed to leave with honour. The Marines would be no worse off. 
  It is an insult to Marines who hold the Marines as God and would shave anything and everything to be there, that others should be allowed to sue their way in. >
  
  So basically you are nuts. Got it. >
  
  I was told the main reason the rules allow a moustache and not a beard was for gas mask seal. It makes sense. >
  
  Great now everyone is fucking special, Corps is getting softer than a wet pussy in the rain. >
  
  Imagine denying someone who is potentially willing to die in combat because they have a beard. >
  
  Firefighters, who also are willing to die in the line of duty, must also shave their beard. This isn’t some arbitrary rule. Beards don’t allow for a proper mask seal which is why many PPE-wearing professions don’t allow for them. >
  
  Beards and turbans have absolutely nothing to do with training or combat. Growing a beard should have zero impact in the service, let them or anyone else do it.