comment: >
  
  We need a strong disciplined military. There is zero reason to accept less. Like it or not, that’s key. Now, does a beard REALLY detract? Are they holding back because what’s next? I’m sure it’s not systemic racism. Right? If so, they need to work past that. If this country can entertain making women beasts of reproduction at the bequest of a subset of 1 religion, the Marines can accept the personal choice to wear a beard by a group of men willing to support the US constitution, despite its inherent flaws.
context: From article:
  
  Three Sikh men sought an exemption from a Marines grooming rule requiring them to shave their beards, with the men arguing it was their expression of commitment to their religious faith. They won.   
  The court said allowing them to do so would have no impact on their duties. The US Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard all accommodate the religious requirements of Sikhism. >
  
  If it doesn’t impact duties why don’t they remove the rule entirely? >
  
  Per the article 
  
  Marine Leadership argued that uniformity was critical to "team mentality," saying recruits were required to follow “the same set of regimented practices" to build cohesion. 
  The Marines argued that recruits needed to be "stripped of their individuality" as part of a "psychological transformation" toward shared sacrifice, the court document read.
  
  I think the uniform requirements were set up in the 1970s from some basic looking up uniform policies for the US Army and Marines, prior to that the established uniform wasn't as strict, however. So some of these policies are only about 50 years old and malleable. >
  
  My high school social studies teacher was a WWII and Korean War vet from Yuba City California, and he'd been allowed to keep his turban and Kirpan when he enlisted in 1943. From what he said I believe the religious exemptions for Sikh articles of faith were removed in the early '80s. Sikhs have served in the US military starting in WWI, and have served in every conflict since. Sikhs had a high rate of service until the changes in the '80s, but rarely serve now because of the restrictions. >
  
  I believe the Army rolled back some of the restrictions before or around 2010 so a Sikh (as well as Muslim or Viking) individual can fill out an ~~AR600-20~~ AR670-1 waiver to keep their hair (I think? I forgot the actual form, if anyone knows and can remind me that'd be appreciated). >
  
  A Viking individual? Is this the 800s? >
  
  There are still some practitioners of Norse Pagan beliefs and they're around, and apparently referred to as Heathens if this article is to reliable. >
  
  Not still. There is no unbroken continued worship of the Norse religion to this day. Most of the practices of that faith are entirely unknown and lost to time. Although people like Snorri Sturluson saw value in preserving mythological content, there's very little in way of describing religious practices like prayers.
  The Norse pagan revivalism is a mix of conjecture based on Snorri's and Adam of Bremen's writings, Tacitus's Germania and Ibn Fadlan's encounter with the Kievan Rus. That, and a bunch of Unverified Personal Gnosis where they sort of wing it, sometimes based on what cool stuff they've seen in Viking movies and video games. 
  It is for all intent and purposes a wholly modern religion based on modern ideas of what we would've liked the religion to be. >
  
  
  It is for all intent and purposes a wholly modern religion based on modern ideas of what we would've liked the religion to be.
  
  Isn't that true for all religions? I'm sure they all changed over time. The pope tolerating homosexuality is just one example. >
  
  Yeah, but the Catholic Church really has been one (mostly) unbroken chain of consistently held hierarchical power for 2,000 year with a billion+ followers today. So there’s more of a through line >
  
  Soo no more policing up those moostaches!? >
  
  Yous got to maintain Marine Corps grooming standurds! >
  
  Shave profile has been relaxed for years. I’m surprised this is even an issue. >
  
  Do SNCOs not appear from the ether to bitch at you for entering the exchange with a 5:00 shadow on a Saturday anymore? >
  
  Been out a few years and I'm always worried Gunny is hiding behind the shopping carts ready to jump out at me if I don't shave when I enter the supermarket. >
  
  God himself can't save you if you're wearing a white undershirt too. >
  
  … are you not allowed to wear white undershirts? >
  
  Not like a plain white t-shirt and jeans, no. But, if you have a pocket on it, then you're cool because it's no longer an undershirt. >
  
  If it's like that, what if you wear two of them? Undershirt is now overshirt. >
  
  If there's anything they like best, it's being a smart ass to skirt the rules >
  
  Don't blame be me, pockets started it. >
  
  The UK Armed Forces have a long tradition of Sikhs serving, dating back to colonial days where they would make up entire Regiments. They have always been permitted to retain their beards. And their uniforms have always been allowed to be modified to replace the beret with a turban. >
  
  Same in Canada. We have Sikh mounties with beards and turbans instead of the famous hats. >
  
  I really hope this eventually leads to a return of civil war era facial hair in the military. >
  
  I want US president with big bad ass beard >
  
  A big badass beard, or a big bad ass beard?
  The distinction is important here. >
  
  I spit my drink laughing at this. Thank you. >
  
  Is this news from a decade ago? I've seen bearded Sikhs for years in the military >
  
  In the army yes. The marines are...special children. >
  
  Yeah, they ride on their own… special bus. >
  
  They get their own... special... non-toxic crayons. >
  
  They already serve in the militaries of India, Britain, Canada, and Austria. >
  
  Get some of those Sikh recruits to slip the mess hall some recipes. No one knows how to feed a big group of people some amazing food like the Sikhs.  You might even get a few crayon eaters to develop a little respect for other cultures. >
  
  Isn’t the reason usually said as a beard prevents a proper seal on a gas mask? >
  
  I wouldn't call it questionable.  "The effect of facial hair on the face seal of negative-pressure respirators, both half-masks and full facepieces, has been investigated. Three hundred and seventy (370) male employees were fit tested both qualitatively and quantitatively. Of these, sixty-seven (67) had fully established beards varying in length, shape, density and texture. Bearded subjects consistently failed the qualitative fit test protocol. Quantitative fit testing with half-mask respirators indicated that bearded employees had a median fit factor of 12 (8% leakage). A median fit factor of 2950 (0.03% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. An average two hundred and forty-six (246) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees. With full facepiece respirators, the bearded employees had a median fit factor of 30 (3% leakage). A median fit factor of greater than 10 000 (less than 0.01% leakage) was obtained on clean-shaven employees. At least a three hundred and thirty (330) fold drop in protection was experienced by bearded employees. Results indicate that the presence of a beard greatly increases the leakage through the respirator face seal, and this leakage should not be permitted when employees are required to wear respirators."
  Though I do think we should be allowed to have neatly trimmed beards in the military. If the risk of life comes up (combat with CBRN threat) then require the beard to be shaved. >
  
  During COVID many Sikh doctors shaved for better mask seals. They are allowed to break their own rules of it is to help save people's lives. >
  
  I mean there isn’t really any Sikh pope or something to sign off on those kinds of things and give permission. They just did it on their own, no permission needed, only god knows if it was necessary or not. Plenty of other Sikh doctors didn’t shave either >
  
  It's literally written in the guru granth sahib that they can break their rules for just reasons. >
  
  What about the daggers? Can they keep them too? Would look sick. >
  
  Daggers and beards will definitely look Sikh af. >
  
  Sikh’s are kinda awesome. Glad. >
  
  Before this entire thread turns into a shit pit, do know Sikhs are well known to be excellent soldiers. You would want them to be your battle brother and they make a mean meal out from mre without meats. >
  
  Was gonna say, aren’t Sikh fighters known for their battle prowess? >
  
  Yeah, literally their MO is like "we are great warriors and could kick your ass at any time. But we're going to make a point not to. Because violence is bad, we're really nice, and also we'd win." >
  
  Warrior monks is how someone once described the Sikhs. >
  
  Isn’t that thumbnail of the army though? >
  
  Looks like west point cadets >
  
  Other militaries allow beards - the US allows beards for special forces and other operators, so the "gas mask won't seal" argument goes out. When I was in AF, we never had a gas mask. Only time I touched one was during the gas chamber training. 
  As long as it's well groomed, let people wear beards. >
  
  More like special forces just doesn't give a fuck >
  
  I don’t know why you were down voted this is true. SF aren’t going to be holding a building or taking a city. They go in and out, chemical weapons aren’t really something they are worried about >
  
  
  They go in and out, chemical weapons aren’t really something they are worried about
  
  If you move really fast the gas can't get you. Also Special Forces can absolutely stay deployed in one spot for extended periods of time, especially if they are embedded with local forces >
  
  “US Marines” but has a photo of West Point? Graduation Ceremony… >
  
  The corps is incredibly anal about uniformity.     It’s 40 degrees out for pt and someone doesn’t have full sweats?    Green on green shorts and tees.     It’s 40 degrees and raining out and we’re working outside all day and one guy doesn’t have gloves?    Well now they aren’t authorized uniform. >
  
  Why would they make that bar?
  Sikhs have a long tradition of being some of the finest soldiers in the World. 
  They serve with beards and turbans in the Grenadier Guards and look just a spanking on Parade without bearskins and certainly no less proficient. The British army even issue a Sikh prayer book but I suppose having that have a long tradition of Sikh soldiers and regiments helps >
  
  For anyone interested men shaving their beards wasn’t as common a style until after WW1 because you needed to be clean shaven to have your gas mask seal properly. Shaving every day is a holdover from that war 100 years later. >
  
  Is this a picture from a west point graduation? >
  
  I was in the USMC and all I can say is, it’s about damn time. >
  
  I'm sure what follows is going to be a calm, logical discussion about grooming standards in the military >
  
  You apparently have no idea what the religious waiver process is. >
  
  More sikhs in the army = better army. 
  Do the math folks, they come from a warrior caste.