comment: >
  
  Couldn't they at least have sent 87 or 89...?
context: according to other german news this is true, but there are problems to get the needed amount of ammo and not all of them are ready, some need maintenance, also this needs approval from german parliament which it does not have. So you will probably hear more about this in 4 weeks. >
  
  If they are fielding the 105mm L7, they can soure ammunition from other countries because everyone and their grandma used them. >
  
  Can confirm - Grandma uses her 105mm L7 barrel to roll out the cookie dough >
  
  Always having a blast with grandmas cookies. >
  
  Wait until she gets her cocktail shaker out! >
  
  Grandma makes some bomb ass cookies. >
  
  A real explosion of flavor in every bite. >
  
  
  The German government is also considering buying back 15 Gepard tanks it had sold to Qatar
  
  This is the most important bit of the news IMO >
  
  And once again Switzerland being dicks about it. Some day  Switzerland is going to get invaded and the whole world is going to turn their backs on them just like they are to Ukraine. >
  
  So something I'm struggling to understand here, maybe somebody with more knowledge can explain...
  If Switzerland's neutrality law does not allow export or re-export of arms and ammunition to countries that are at war, why would any military ever use them? If a war broke out wouldn't that potentially leave you stuck without a source of resupply? >
  
  Their machine cannons are basically the standard, back in WW2 they were licensed to both Allies and Axis and during the cold war they probably assumed that they have enough ammo in storage to last the war or at least until the soviets reached the Atlantic (Or that when the front gets close to the Alps the Swiss would realize that they are close to being neighbours to the soviets.). And the last decades everybody focused on war on terror and other fights against insurgents, which would also not cut one off from Swiss ammo. >
  
  Reject Oerlikon, go back to Bofors. >
  
  If Sweden joins NATO there's a very real possibility for that. >
  
  *If Erdogan stops being a douchebag and lets Sweden join NATO >
  
  Hungary is also being assholes about this. Let's not let them off the hook >
  
  True, but Orban is beholden enough to the EU that he usually shuts up after they threaten his funding. >
  
  They're playing rotateing villains, once turkey backs off Hungary will pop up with a new excuse to block. >
  
  People need to stop with the numerology. lol 
  Germany hasn't even announced how many Leo 1 will be sent. The press just assumes it will be 88 because that's how many Rheinmetall reportedly has in stock. The only official word was "The export request for Leopard 1 tanks has been granted." That's all we know for now. >
  
  The numerology I'm concerned with is the 70mm of plain steel on the front of the Leo 1.  It's primary defense is hoping that any round that hits it goes through and out the other side. >
  
  Since the Ukrainians aren't fools I doubt they would use the Leopard 1 for tank duels. It should be used like the Stryker MGS oder the new MFP for fire support of infantry units to quickly depose of machine gun positions or to take out a stray BMP if they stumble upon one of those. For these tasks this old tank is still useful. >
  
  This isn't ww2 anymore. RPGs were seen as a pretty big threat to the Leo 1's because of their numbers. These will need some modifications done to them before they should see the front. >
  
  Oh, I can safely bet that one of the modifications that we will see is Ukraine applying a generous amount of ERA to them. >
  
  Most definitely. For RPGs? Maybe slat armor is better. >
  
  Eh, slat armor is incredibly cumbersome and at the front it'll probably get destroyed before getting fired at due to terrain, that and you can't put it very high either because it'll interfiere with the gun >
  
  Unfortunate number to choose. >
  
  Wanna bet that Russia is going to pick up on that number to verify that Germany is full of Nazis? Haha >
  
  They already did. Quote from one of the ru propaganda outlets:
  
  Vladimir Kornilov, a political observer of the "Rossiya Segodnya" news agency, compared the quantity of tanks that the western countries want to supply [to Ukraine], and found a scary symbol in the resulting number.
  "The Germans are transferring 88 tanks to Ukraine, after all! And the British - 14. So the Nazi symbol is reproduced. Coincidence? I don't think so!" - he wrote. >
  
  What's the significance of 14? >
  
  Search for "14 words". 
  In a nutshell, it refers to a white supremacist slogan. >
  
  Worth nothing the 14 Words are an American Neo-Nazi creation. I'm not even sure if European fascists and white-supremacists even use it. >
  
  They do. >
  
  Heck, they use Confederate battle flags since Nazi flags are outlawed... >
  
  This sort of seems like the Russians dusting off their T-62s. It seems reasonable to have older tanks ready to go in reserve or to give support to areas that would otherwise have no tanks, but in actual combat it feels like there's a high chance of losing valuable tank crewmen in these vehicles. >
  
  Depends on the generation.  They are certainly older and not the best, but the later 1A5's had pretty decent fire control systems and it has thermals which is more than a lot of the Russian tanks can say.  Tank v tank, the first one that lands a hit has an infinitely higher chance of winning so good optics and most importantly, thermals,  go a long way. Definitely more late 80s tech vs 60s-70s. >
  
  Still, the gun was developed to defeat the T-54, so it's use against newer tanks with reactive armor might be questionable. >
  
  It very much depends on the ammunition.  There is some very lethal 105mm apfsds rounds, both US and Israeli, that could give all but the best era a run for their money.  Even the older ammo isn't hopeless.  The Israelis killed multiple early T72s with their M60s in the 80s. 
  Whether that's the ammunition the Ukrainians get is another matter, but the US certainly has stocks of it.  We still had a 105mm platform (ie. The striker mgs) in use until relatively recently, and we are about to adopt another light tank for airborne units that uses a 105mm so it's not going away.  The reality is that tank on tank is a very small part of what tanks do.  Probably 90+% of their time is spent in support of infantry which these can do in spades.  If they need an armored spearhead for breakthrough these free up other better tanks to do that. >
  
  The coveted and elusive tracked mobile gun system. >
  
  Ukraine has also captured over 500 working Russian tanks too. >
  
  "once working", am I right? Some largely working, others just to scavenge what can be utilized? >
  
  Most of captured t-62 turned into medical evac platform >
  
  88 Leopard tanks doesn’t roll off the tongue like 99 Luftballons does. >
  
  Same number of syllables >
  
  As a German, i personally would have chosen a slightly different number...but okay. >
  
  Oh no! Nazi Germany is invading Russia OnCe AgAin .  /s >
  
  Couldn't they have sent 89, just to avoid the...you know... >
  
  Just make it 99….
  Luftballoons! >
  
  Mein Leopard hat sich in ein Luftballon aufgeblasen und ist einfach zur Ukraine geflogen… ich konnte nichts machen Herr Putin, tut mir schrecklich leid. >
  
  "Hello, ~~Dimitri~~ Vladimir. I'm calling you to tell you about something terrible that has  happened" >
  
  Even though Leopard 1's are old, they're still useful and likely better than some Soviet tanks. I reckon they'll use the Leopard 2 as the spearhead and the Leopard 1 as a pounding force behind them >
  
  And there you have the problem.
  If you have to use your tank as an artillery platform.. well then that tank isn’t that useful for its intended purpose.
  The whole design of having a main battle tank with paper thin armor and super high mobility was given up rather quickly and only adopted by very few nations who.. evidently gave up on that concept within one generation.
  The leopard 1s are still a great addition but.. it’s not better than anything rolling through Ukraine right now >
  
  
  not better than anything rolling through Ukraine right now
  
  Better than what? Captured Russian tanks that had previously been rotting in storage? >
  
  hur dur Russia bad
  if you spend 2 minutes on wiki you'll see leo 1 is significantly outmatched by t72s. its a generation behind >
  
  
  hur dur Russia bad
  
  lol wut? I’m only arguing that a professionally refurbished Leo is a great offer when the alternative is another ancient tank, that’s been poorly maintained/stored, captured, and dragged through a few fields by a farmer’s tractor. Zero interest in playing a text based War of Tanks >
  
  
  when the alternative is another ancient tank,
  
  I'd say the alternative is no tank, not another ancient tank. >
  
  Fun fact! In Germany it's illegal to have the number 88 on a license plate. Because of the implication. >
  
  Only site reporting this made up number....no news from German government... Claims source is " local media".
  Rubles for reporters? Check your sources >
  
  No one has said they are "sending 88 tanks" lots of other mentions about stock etc but not sending 88 >
  
  
  No one has said they are "sending 88 tanks" lots of other mentions about stock etc but not sending 88
  
  Mate, the headline of the very article - that this entire thread is about -  is "Germany to send 88 Leopard I tanks to Ukraine" >
  
  88 is an odd number. STandard NATO tank company is 14 tanks. 88 is 6.2 companies. Ukraine must be using a differently sized companies or they worked something out. The initial supply of modern tanks were in orders of 14. NATOs big thing is standardizing everything. It makes them a more cohesive military. When they train the ukrainians on NATO tactics they will train based on NATO standards. This is important to speed up training times. Plus they need to send support vehicles with the tanks. 
  I hope the training includes combined arms with the Bradleys and other personnel carriers. Tanks are sitting ducks by themselves to anti tank weapons. They are effective when combined with infantry fighting vehicles and proper training on how to work together. They need both to do a proper offensive. Russias lack of combined arms made it much easier for ukrainians to pick off their tanks with anti tank weapons. You dont want to do give the russians the same edge without proper training. 
  This is not just tanks that get sent. They have to send the support vehicles for resupply, spare parts, train the crews, translate the documentation to ukrainian, train the maintenance team, make sure they have a supply line for parts. Tanks require a lot of maintenance. 
  Its gotta take at least 6 months before they will be on the battlefield. >
  
  
  88 is an odd number. STandard NATO tank company is 14 tanks. 88 is 6.2 companies. 
  
  A battalion is 3x14=42, plus 2 for battalion commander+XO.
  44 times 2 is 88. >
  
  Older generation tank but still it will help Ukraine fight back Russian.. >
  
  Old and outdated by NATO standard, but essentially the competitor to what russia is fielding at the moment, not trolling or anything these things were built to fight T72 and family.
  Not sure which revision they're sending but it's probably the latest, and L1A6 models are definitely capable to face most of the current russian units on the field in ukraine. It's a case of "NATO really is that far in tech". >
  
  Leopard 1A6 only was experimental. The latest (German) version was 1A5A1. Other countries also had the 1A5 version with minor modifications. >
  
  I misread that as Germany was sending 88 leopards to Ukraine and I was very confused >
  
  Get fucked Russia >
  
  Good I am sorry Russian people but your government is total shit and they need to be defeated in a strong and don’t ever do this again kind of way.  Afterwards the whole world will also be happy to help you all. We don’t hate you. >
  
  I think Putin's comments about "German tanks rolling into 'russia' again for nazis" comment backfired.  every time they do something that directly insults Germany, they seem to immediately respond with more support for ukraine >
  
  Yes Germany have try a "sunshine politics" toward Russia since the end of the cold war. By unjustified call them nazi (that most be one of the bigest insult toward a German) will only hardern German stand agenst Russia >
  
  88 is still better than 69 though… you get 8 twice as much. >
  
  When will they send 99 Luft balloons. >
  
  Fuck Putin. Give them more.  20 tanks for every child he’s murdered. >
  
  Leopard I tanks are still very good tanks despite their age. They may not be a Leopard II or an Abrams but they still pack a punch. So long as the generals deploy them to support (and be supported by) infantry in the right way they should give the Ukrainian front line troops a nice boost. Unfortunately most of these mothballed Leopard I tanks will need significant mechanical & electronics work done on them before they can be combat-ready and of course the Ukrainian tank crews will need training before they are ready to operate them; they won't be appearing on the battlefield tomorrow.
  All in all this is good news for Ukraine. Thanks Germany! 😀 >
  
  All these fucking rules and regulations and pretending they are important in critical moments. Like the Russians gave a fuck about any rules and regulations or laws in the last ... actually any time in history. >
  
  88 hmm.. >
  
  The first shipment was of 14 tanks as well >
  
  14 tanks = 1 tank company...
  88 tanks = 2 tank battalions...
  Germany is sending what is ready to be sent. And those numbers happen to be the standard number of tanks in Nato units. Kinda like they put a battalion at a time into storage... >
  
  Eh, it's debatable whether it's even worth training people and creating logistics for these >
  
  ITS HAPPENING >
  
  That's how you deal with belligerent terrorists.  Every time they make threats increase the aid from 14 Leopard 2s by adding 88 Leopard 1s.  Good job Kremlin. >
  
  The Germans build good stuff I heard >
  
  Six full armored platoons ! Plus spares ! Way to step it up, Germany ! >
  
  69 tanks would have been funnier >
  
  Hope they are the 1A5's >
  
  For anyone that wants to know the actual backround to this:
  Rheinmetall has 88 leo 1 tanks thats neither the total number of leo 1 tanks in germany (since FFG has 99 more) nor was there anything announced about how many are being sent to ukraine. Maybe this is a translation error but mire likely its just clickbait >
  
  Why don't they send people tanks? How many leopards does it take to operate each one? >
  
  88 huh >
  
  88 is an inappropriate number from what I know about nazis. Is it intentional? >
  
  Don’t you think they’ll be spotted?
  I’ll see my way out… >
  
  And article showing Leopard 2 >
  
  Thought Germany would make it 89 just because of the implication. >
  
  This thread is proof that no matter what Germany does, people will always bring it back to Nazi this Nazi that. Stop poking the bear, when will you learn to not fuck with the Germans. >
  
  This is actually really good, and interesting news. It means Germany has decided, at least, to pull its finger out a little bit. 
  Rhienmetall has been offering at least 50 Leo1's since last april. 
  And for those saying the Leo1 won't be very good or useful. It's a tank with a 105mm gun that can use standard modern NATO rounds. It was built to take on T-62's, and modernized to take on the T-72. Exactly the kind of tanks Russia uses in Ukraine. 
  There are plenty of uses for an armored vehicle like the Leo1 which doesn't see it going toe to toe with Russias more modern MBT's, and thats what Ukraine has been using their older armor for for the entire war. Fire support. Mobile anti-armor work. 
  It's got more armor and the same calibre gun as the AMX 10 the French sent. It will have all the optics it needs to be able to do the job it was designed for. The only difference is it will be wacking BMP's instead. >
  
  German tanks in Eastern Europe in the 1930's: :(
  German tanks in Eastern Europe in the 2020's: :) >
  
  Given that Russia is bringing old T-62 tanks and possibly older tanks out of storage, this seems like a good idea. Leopard 1 tanks are very capable of dealing with older Soviet Era tanks. >
  
  Lmao, you can't make this shit up: We'll sent the amount of "Heil Hitler" MBTs to Ukraine. Meanwhile Russia: We'll fight again against German Tanks. >
  
  I mean, are they just being cheeky ? With Russia calling them nazis?