comment: >
  
  If this forgiveness doesn’t come through it will be a massive fumble for the democrats. Huge PR crisis
context: If they cannot be forgiven, can they be paused permanently. >
  
  I’d be fine with negative interest rates. They’d be gone faster than you can pay them >
  
  Wait could you tech not ‘forgive’ students loans. And just set the rate as -100% >
  
  Liberal democrats don't bend rules.  That's why they can never get anything done.  Republicans break rules, liberals say "wow that's wrong" and then can't pass anything because republicans jam them up.
  Its worth noting this is on purpose.  Corporate Democrats do not want change. They want to be seen attempting change, then get foiled, do nothing to fight back, and then point fingers at the republicans. >
  
  Yup our government is pretty much broke. We have republicans who have zero interest in even trying and we have a chunk of dems who want nothing to change. All while MAGA republicans keep gaining more and more power with each election cycle, eventually our country will be screwed >
  
  Republicans are fascists and are the worst thing.  That being said, the democrats showed their hand on true reform when they conspired to fuck Bernie and get Jim Crow Joe (LOVED locking up black people in the 90s) the nomination in 2020 just ahead of the pandemic. >
  
  Are you confident that moderate voters would’ve picked Bernie over Trump? I’m not…and I would’ve loved a Sanders presidency >
  
  If the backing came from the establishment, absolutely. 
  Americans are very easily led, even if it's against their own interests. I can't imagine they wouldnt be easily led when it's actually for their interests. >
  
  Nah Bernie would have been stomped in a national election. >
  
  
  gives absolutely zero evidence
  a wealth of information to the contrary
  immensely popular politician with popular platform
  agreed with by Fox News viewers
  constantly shown to be as competitive as Biden
  also shown to have a more popular platform than Biden
  
  Okay.
  
  young people just don’t vote
  
  It’s a consistent narrative that ignores surging youth turnout from 2018 onward. It’s a bit irrelevant given he had majority support among ALL Democrats on policy but the other consistent narrative of “he can’t win” definitely won over enough that policy victory this did not translate to actual electoral victory.
  It helped that Biden was more palatable than Hillary as the ‘centrist’ candidate and benefited greatly from the memory of his Vice Presidency, which seems to have dominated over his political career from 1974 to 2008. >
  
  Expect to be disappointed in the Supreme Court. >
  
  Always >
  
  So say we all. >
  
  Biden could just paused them for as long as he can. 
  Then when a Republican president comes in,  it will be his fault payments are restarted. >
  
  their fault >
  
  Be real, Republicans are less likely to nominate and elect a woman President than the likely hood of loan forgiveness passing the Supreme Court >
  
  I actually think the opposite. I firmly believe the first woman president of the USA will be a republican woman, and she'll be the most viciously alt right, anti-woman, racist, homophobic fascist to ever hold the office. >
  
  You think MTG is gonna be president?
  sigh I can definitely see that troglodyte on the ticket in the near future >
  
  If Trump beats out DeSantis, she will absolutely be his VP. >
  
  Ugh >
  
  I applied for the forgiveness and found out that my loans were being outright discharged (I went to ITT but graduated in 2006 -- I thought I wasn't covered I was).  I'm waiting for mine to be cleared out and get all the money I paid into it back.  But I will never not be an ally for everyone also thrown into the predatory meat grinder known as secondary education financing. >
  
  Same boat!  I still can’t believe they’re just going to go away. Doesn’t feel real. >
  
  I really hate to ruin your buzz, but this thread is about how SCOTUS may kill loan forgiveness and reverse them. >
  
  They're talking about something different. Their loans were discharged via other means. >
  
  At this point, I haven’t been in college for 25+ years and I’m still paying. The loans have been sold, re-sold, in collections, sold again, consolidated, re-consolidated… and I owe more than I started with still. I’m done. Fuck them. >
  
  Fuck them indeed. Let’s all have a payment strike. >
  
  Can't they garnish it?  We could still just do $1/ month,  right? >
  
  I think the minimum is $5/month for the loan to not default. >
  
  Dangit, alright people we're going to need someone to google this! >
  
  Hmmm, since student loans didn't exist when our founding fathers wrote the constitution wouldn't the point be moot? >
  
  I need to know what a medieval scholar thinks of student loan forgiveness. >
  
  They would likely be for it. We live in one of the only periods of time where the vast majority of debt legislation is meant to protect the lender, not the borrower. Debt forgiveness is the historical norm. >
  
  Except for all those debtors prisons. >
  
  A concept the US was only too happy to continue >
  
  Republicans HATE student loan forgiveness, but are TOTALLY fine with bailing out the banks when they owe money. >
  
  The pause has been in place for 3 years and society hasn't collapsed. I think that's some indication that forgiving up to a measly 20k per student loan borrower wouldn't cause society to collapse.
  They should just forgive it all and get it over with, but we can't have nice things in the US of A. >
  
  Yeah, but, if people have this extra money to spend on goods and services then we'll get out of control inflation. We see this now with Biden's student loan pause and Biden's stimulus checks. (oh, and no one wants to work because of those stimulus checks). /s >
  
  Unfortunately the bought and paid for judicial arm of the Republican Party will kill the loan forgiveness.  Then the Republicans will some how spin it in to being all Biden’s fault >
  
  I think many GOP see where voters lie on this issue (pro forgiveness). Then again, they didn't stop themselves from overturning Roe when they knew most Americans were against the overturning. >
  
  I hate that we've all just accepted that the Supreme Court is a panel of dictators that can do whatever they want, including making the lives of millions of people significantly worse. They have a stranglehold over this country that will last for decades.
  When will they face accountability? When will someone tell them "no"? >
  
  We’d need a functional legislative branch that could impeach them. We do not >
  
  Lol despite our Democratic control and overwhelming evidence against kavanaugh >
  
  Dems barely control the senate >
  
  Yeah I realize that.  
  How convenient >
  
  The problem is the federal govt is no longer capable of doing any. If Soc Sec and Medicare (universally popular) didn't already exist there is no chance Congress and the Courts could create them today. We have a legal drinking age, voting age, etc because they've been in place a century. There is no way we could create any new standards for anything today. Govt is crippled. 
  The correct answer to student debt is for Congress to reform bankruptcy, education loans to be interest free, grant program expanded (funded), and internship requirements overhauled. All of that needs to be done. However it can't get done. Congress can't even pass an annual budget and that is a congressional function literally outlined in the Constitution! 
  So out of desperation the President is trying to forgive some of the student debt. It's a bandaid. Not a fix. However it isn't how the system is supposed to work and the poorly qualified partisans with lifetime positions on the bench can and will slap it down.
  Bothsides are not the same folks!!! One side might move at a snails pace and fight with the strength of a dying candle but it is willing to work towards what's right. The other side isn't. Apathy and bothsidism is killing us. >
  
  “Elections have consequences - unless we don’t like those consequences.” - republicans >
  
  RIP student loan forgiveness. 
  Brown will deliver a compelling and logical case for why it should be implemented. The GOP puppets will strike it down all the same. >
  
  If SCOTUS strikes down student low forgiveness, what is to stop any executive branch from simply reintroducing it with an explicit rationale based on existing law? Since the courts can't, practically speaking, enforce anything, we would get caught in a loop of "no you can't, yes I can..." 
  I predict student loan repayment will continue to be paused long after August, and the only real chance to unfreeze it would be a republican president using another EO. >
  
  I gotta preface this by noting that I am not young, I’ve already paid back more than I originally borrowed, and I typically don’t adhere to hard partisan lines when voting (or at least I didn’t use to, lately it’s been a different story).
  But I’ll be goddamned if I ever again cast a vote in the direction of people who are fighting tooth and nail in court to make sure I get a $650 monthly bill started up again, especially when my boss got $130k forgiven in PPP loans that he didn’t need to begin with. >
  
  Exactly. Empty parking lots and farmers with no employees in my area got hundreds of thousands of dollars forgiven and we aren’t supposed to get anything? We don’t forgive this then we need to go back and force payback of PPP loans. >
  
  When they rule against it that precedent will apply to PPP loans right? >
  
  PPP loans were passed through congress, so it was constitutional >
  
  So were the rules that allows the Secretary of Education to forgive student loans. >
  
  The debate is whether this falls under that jurisdiction given to them from past bills. There’s not really a debate for PPP loans, because it’s clearly constitutional for congress to pass spending >
  
  I’m well aware. It falls under the law. The law was pretty explicit when it was originally passed. They even waited and used the unique situation of Covid to justify it so it’s even more of a logical argument. >
  
  Nothing to worry about then since SCOTUS is sure to agree if it's 100% legal. >
  
  You’re insinuating something I didn’t even allude to. >
  
  If its fully legal then there's no issue.  You clearly said its fully legal. >
  
  The fascists on SCOTUS destroyed a Woman's right to control her own body, and cost GOPers a couple dozen seats in the 2022 election. Now those bigoted magots are going to hand the Dems several million more votes from the students AND THEIR PARENTS. Perhaps there will be enough switched votes to impeach those fascists >
  
  Just trust that if we were talking about Wall Street firms who fucked the system and people for a lifetime and we’re now of the verge of being fucked themselves, this would be solved already. >
  
  They get PPP loan write-offs, you got $2400 in stimmys and get to watch politicians play kick the can with your financial wellbeing.  American dream. >
  
  Hunter S Thompson pointed out that the American Dream was dead a generation ago. >
  
  Why is it heading to the Supreme Court? Because Republicans don't like it and with Republicans, cruelty is the point >
  
  If I'm not mistaken, Biden actually brought it up to the Supreme Court. >
  
  Biden brought it to the SCOTUS because a lower court judge struck it down. >
  
  Yeah I know. I misread you're comment and thought you genuinely weren't aware of that. >
  
  No worries. We all make mistakes. >
  
  "Don't threaten me with the Supreme Court." 
  The host of Bad Faith Podcast. >
  
  I just have to make one point here for all the "you took out the loans" people. Yes, I took out the loans -- when I was a mentally unstable 18 year old just finishing high school. I mean I was in and out of psych wards level unwell and somehow I was allowed to just accept a life sentence of debt. At 18 we aren't even considered mature enough to legally drink a damn beer, but I can sign the dotted line and take out 20k. Like wth is up with that? You can't even rent a freakin cheapo car at that age in some states; you're not considered trustworthy. Heck, I could hardly get that kind of money in a loan if I tried now and I'm 33 with a better head on my shoulders. Kind of odd if you ask me. Actually, it feels pretty predatory. 
  I'm also aware that our parents are supposed to offer us some guidance here, but we don't all have that kind of support system, at least I didn't. 
  I don't know... I'm just saying it feels really misguided to say "shouldn't have taken out the loans then!!!" when the people taking out the loans aren't even fully cognitively developed.... >
  
  It means it's boned. >
  
  If it’s going to the supreme court, expect the worst possible outcome
  “Supreme Court rules student loan forgiveness unconstitutional, requires students to begin repayment immediately at an increased interest rate” >
  
  "HOW DO YOU OFF PAY STUDENT LOANS?...  WORKKK, duh!"
  ^ That's what the GOP and their fans like to sing ~ >
  
  Meanwhile not wanting to raise min wage, not wanting to provide healthcare, etc
  I'm still amazed that anyone other than a one percenter would vote GOP >
  
  Because there are a lot of hateful people out there.  They don't care if they get fucked over as long as the GOP keeps "hurting the people they're supposed to be hurting". >
  
  I applied for loan forgiveness but haven’t been approved. I have only worked in public sector education since graduating, but no one can explain to me why my work experience doesn’t qualify for loan forgiveness. >
  
  Mine were approved.  Make sure to fill out the pslf application and have your agency fill out their parts. I taught over ten years and made the 120 payments.  It took awhile to get forgiven, I think about 6 months after I submitted my application. >
  
  Thank you! I did those things you said, although I got everything in at the beginning of October. So it’s not quite 5 months yet. I guess patience is the key now. >
  
  I had to consolidate mine through Moleha (or something).  You can check the status on your loans and it will say if it is under review, or whatever.  Keep up the patience. >
  
  Funny thing: my loans have ALWAYS been managed through MOHELA, but once I applied for PSLF they treated me like a new customer who transferred everything in. >
  
  So… PPP loans can be forgiven, but student loans can’t? >
  
  Because there's no way for the Republicans business interests to skim a few billion from this. >
  
  The last time I checked I owe $93k. Honestly I wish I had bought a tiny house in middle America instead lol >
  
  But let's give more ppp loans and bank bailouts >
  
  I find it hard to stomach that they're still handing out PPP loans. >
  
  The supreme court is a bad joke that does not represent the law, only corporate lobbyists. >
  
  Until the administration can win the court battle over student loan debt forgiveness, it’ll most likely continue to keep extending the payment pause further. >
  
  Republicans obstructing democrats trying to help our kids and we the people.    Vote blue we care about you. >
  
  6-3 against. >
  
  How about we all just collectively not pay them ever.
  That case has literally no standing. They would not be hurt by this. >
  
  How would this decision affect future financial decisions? Can it be used to limit military spending. >
  
  
  Can it be used to limit military spending.
  
  No. Congress passes a bill every year called the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) that explicitly spells out military spending. Student Loan Forgiveness on the other hand is being pursued under executive action. >
  
  Nalnet called me yesterday, they need to lose my number. Call Joe >
  
  People who think the court will decide whether or not people deserve student loan forgiveness don't understand that what they are deciding is really: Does the president have the authority to pass student loan forgiveness, on this scale without the power of congress.
  Based on previous supreme court cases concerning the use of executive order to pass the dreamers act by Obama and the Border Wall Funding by Trump: This initiative will be struck down as unconstitutional. >
  
  Except it's not through executive order, it's through the 2003 HEROs act. A law. >
  
  This is a common misconception. An *executive order* was written that gives the treasury the power to retroactively apply a different interpretation to the law known as the 2003 HEROs act to apply funding tax payer funds assigned for one purpose for another mutually exclusive purpose. Biden didn't just call up the treasury and say, "Do this." He utilized a legal process known as Executive Order.
  ​
  Edit: A few "comment and then instantly block" people in the house. >
  
  Can you provide citation
  COVID was declared and national emergency and the forgiveness was initiated in that window. SCOTUS and the GOP may not like the law, but it is the law to allow debt forgiveness during a national emergency >
  
  Maybe they can put the money that Republican Governors cut off early the people were getting in pandemic unemployment assistance toward reducing student loan debt along with PPP loans that were misappropriated that should be paid back by the uber wealthy who got them. I am sure Alito and insurrectionist spouse Thomas can't wait to blow this thing up. >
  
  Because of the pause I have just kept paying. I have been actually getting somewhere not paying interest. >
  
  Why would you pay anything? If it gets forgiven you wasted your money. If it doesn't get forgiven you drop a massive payment day 1. >
  
  You are correct and that is not a bad strategy tbh. Tbh I have no doubt the Supreme Court will shoot it down so a few hundred a month is not a big deal. We should get our “no” answer any day now. >
  
  I think Pres. Bided should extend the pause to January 31, 2025.  It would give a lot of people motivation to vote. >
  
  Let’s be honest. Biden’s popularity was probably at its lowest before he announced student loan forgiveness. He knew that republicans would reject it and that it would never actually become a reality. I was excited at first, but now I’m starting to see that student loans will never be forgiven. It was all PR for Biden. >
  
  The forgiveness would have survived a different court. There's a decent (but not rock-solid) textual basis for it. So it's not all smoke and mirrors, though I agree I'm not confident it will survive >
  
  These student loan borrowers had the reasonable expectation and belief that they would not have to make additional payments on their federal student loans. This belief may well stop them from making payments even if the Department is prevented from effectuating debt relief. Unless the Department is allowed to provide one-time student loan debt relief we expect this group of borrowers to have higher loan default rates due to the ongoing confusion about what they owe.
  What a terrible argument. "Hey SC justices, if you say this is unconstitutional then people are gonna default, because we promised them this thing was constitutional. So, you can't say it's unconstitutional." >
  
  The law is constitutional. But it's worth telling the SC the real-world consequences of their actions were they to suddenly decide that it isn't now. >
  
  Conservatives, including those on the court, are looking forward to those consequences. More people default? Good! That means more assets our wealthy overlords can acquire from us at little to no cost for themselves. >
  
  All the "forgiven" will be making loan payments by 2024. This SCOTUS will strike it down. >
  
  We started paying ours while it was paused interest free. 
  That’s what responsible adults do. >
  
  It's wonderful you were gainfully employed during Covid and were able to pay all of your bills and meet your obligations. There was a pretty large swath of "responsible adults" who weren't quite as fortunate as you were. >
  
  I loved the student loans.  Each semester when they were given out coincided with the third and fourth largest sales weeks of the years in my sporting goods store.  Had to schedule extra employees for the increased business.  I loved all that “school” money.  Might seem funny but it actually happened for over 20 years….. >
  
  I mean these are 18 year olds we’re talking about.  They shouldn’t be asked or frankly even permitted to take out these kinds of loans.  Because college should be free. >
  
  Except the politicians allowed it to become a huge business for their sponsors >
  
  You know, I used to align myself with one party yet always vote for whoever I feel is best from any of the parties but several terms ago when both of the majority parties seemed to forget that they were elected to represent us and instead count only focus on any type of negativity they can exploit in the other party I lost all faith in BOTH of them.  How can government function like this when if the president is from one party and the house is from another then they automatically make something up to impeach the president.  So idiotic.  I know I’ll get roasted but we need a uniter in there who will reach across the aisle again.  Clinton, wet her you love him or hate him was such a phenomenal bullshitter he got them to work together >
  
  “Pause” XD >
  
  Supreme Court. Ha. That’s Trump’s Court >
  
  The rest of us all have to pay our loans back.  I don’t get why Biden is cherry picking College grads for special treatment.  College grads make more money and end up with like 7x the net worth of high school grads.  But we need to help them get even more wealthy than the bottom 50%? >
  
  It doesn’t only apply to graduates, actually. 
  The tricky thing is the usual conservative line is that bottom 50% doesn’t pay taxes… but now they’re the primary taxpayer who is getting screwed by middle class not-investor-class taxpayers. >
  
  I guess my point stands. Why suddenly are we cherry picking the richest demographic overall and paying off their loans for them?   Why not use these funds to help with the lowest earner’s loans rather than paying off loans for those households making up to $250,000?  I don’t get it.  Wouldn’t helping someone making $35,000 get a car and pay off their car loan be better than subsidizing the top 8% of earners? >
  
  They’re not the richest demographic. The limit is literally 120,000k/year. Your question has a false premise.
  The rest is answered by the right side of Congress >
  
  Find me people with 250k salaries that have crushing college debt? Your strawman shit is weak. >
  
  Glad you agree with me.  People with $250,000 salaries should not be getting our tax dollars to help pay their student loans.  Or people with $200,000 salaries, or $150,000 or $100,000.  If you are struggling at less than 50th percentile salary or 40th, which is more like $50,000, then let’s discuss.  But for Biden to claim that $250k households need taxpayer assistance is ludicrous and irresponsible.  And that is how his proposal is set up. >
  
  people need to stop taking out these massive loans for college.... better off working weekends in the restaurant business... then working full time summers.... >
  
  Bruh I've been doing that for the last four years and I still have 25k in student loan debt. Wages haven't kept up with the cost of education or the cost of living >
  
  I worked full time as a college student and began making loan payments early, while still in school to “get ahead.” This notion that people have student loans because they didn’t work hard enough is asinine. >
  
  No one held a gun to these peoples head to sign for these loans. Why should they get out of repaying them? >
  
  No. But we were told by every authority figure in our lives from k-12 that we needed to go to college to get a good job if we wanted a comfortable life. No other options were presented. Why should we get no help when jackasses that bankrupt massive banking companies get bailed out when gamble with poeples money? >
  
  The SCOTUS in its current state won't allow it to go through. This is such bullshit. >
  
  What if Biden brings criminals charges against students for nor paying their loans, then issues a blanket presidential pardon? >
  
  They're already off my credit report thanks to this. I applied the first day when the apps were open. If this doesn't pass, will they reappear on my credit? >
  
  Prediction: “the Biden administration is correct in their ability to forgive loans under the justification that the Covid emergency allows it. But the covid emergency was ended so the program will not be carried out and no loans will be forgiven”