comment: >
  
  I mean, if we can't track a thing that size moving that slowly and emitting that much signal... Well, it's silly to start this sentence that way. We can and have.
context: Force majeure: An event or effect that cannot be reasonably anticipated or controlled, e.g. ACT OF GOD >
  
  What are you saying exactly? >
  
  It’s a legal stance that they couldn’t control it so they aren’t at fault. Basically they weren’t spying on the us, this shit just went over the us by a failure. It also prevents us from seizing it and whatever was attached to it. Idk how well this argument will srand >
  
  Source on the “force majeure” claim preventing the US from seizing it? I don’t see how that can possibly be the case. >
  
  So I guess the other one over Latin America is another “mu-bad”?!! 🤨 >
  
  Drop a bunch of leaves from a building and watch the wind carrying them in different directions. >
  
  The balloon over the US has shown it can maneuver. They aren't just blowing around. >
  
  It’s Pennywise looking to scoop up some adult tartare for lunch!! 🎈🤡 >
  
  Did you see the post about Steven King too? >
  
  What post? Don't tell me he died! >
  
  So they'd have no problem with us bringing down their "errant" balloon? >
  
  We’re about to find out >
  
  I might believe the balloon somehow got blown way off course-
  If there wasn’t another one over South America. 
  Two just seems a little too much of a coincidence. 
  I guess it might be possible both balloons got caught up in the same winds or jet stream, but… eh. >
  
  Once is chance, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern. 
  I’m just waiting to read about the third one floating around so I can then jump to the ‘oh it’s totally intentional’ conclusion. >
  
  fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, uhhh cant get fooled again >
  
  *throws shoe* >
  
  *dodges*
  *throws other shoe*
  *dodges again* >
  
  George Bush don’t care about Shoe people >
  
  Hilariously, neither does Ye anymore. >
  
  Great follow up. >
  
  Adidas dropped him, didn't they? >
  
  Yes they did. 300 mil down the drain. >
  
  Force Majeure in their vocabulary is " caught in the act". >
  
  Find a third balloon, and it is a majeure à trois >
  
  Maybe then we'll figure out who the Chinese are in bed with. >
  
  China doesn’t do soft power well. They have a limited number of allies.
  Russia and China are friendly but only if China doesn’t mess with India. Russia will always side with India because Russia and India both experienced “Sino wars” in the 1960’s. >
  
  India is one of Russia’s largest trading partners. It might be the largest now. >
  
  china: we dont have to use airballoons to spy on you. we simply bribe some of your underpaid workers. >
  
  That costs money though. Just handing out TikTok to everyone is way easier. >
  
  Insane how little tiktok is being brought up right now. 1/8th of all living humans across the entire planet are using tiktok every month, voluntarily sharing private and confidential info >
  
  Insane how little US spyware apps like Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Snapchat get brought up >
  
  Well the two are very different so why would those be brought up? >
  
  Difference in that American spyware = good? Chinese spyware = bad? >
  
  The level of spyware in TikTok > level of spyware in Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter combined >
  
  If you actually believe that, then there's really no changing your mind lmao >
  
  Lol ahh yes because all the other apps share data through a third party and I can’t tell where my data goes from Facebook 🙄 putting it out there I don’t use Facebook Twitter or insta for the reason I don’t want my data fucked with, doesn’t change the fact that TikTok is leagues worse than any of them tho >
  
  
  through a third party
  
  Is the US government a third party though?
  Surely if you're concerned about Tiktok spying then you would like to see something done about all apps spying >
  
  
  "China has always strictly abided by international law and respected the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries," the ministry said
  
  Riiight, riight, right. >
  
  Every other country that borders the South China Sea would beg to differ. Every single one. >
  
  China has fought a war with every single one of their neighbors, even the ones that aren’t land bordering them lol >
  
  I do indeed remember when big bully China fought a war against sweet innocent Japan in the 1930s and 40s >
  
  Japan was trying to de-Nazify China ofc >
  
  Now it seems the accident is changing course intentionally and there is a second accident floating over Latin America. >
  
  “We are very sorry that we got caught” >
  
  Weather / wind current patterns suggest that China is lying, especially now that there is another spotted in Latin America. >
  
  China and lying about foreign policy. Name a more iconic duo. >
  
  Yeah, but [insert whataboutism here]? >
  
  They are working their way down. They're busy doing that to the top comments, atm. >
  
  Yep.  I just caught a "The US can't have the moral high ground on this because [the US did bad shit in the past]"
  On a comment that had nothing to do with the US, and was just pointing out how much china bald-face lies. >
  
  99 red balloons go by >
  
  I would think the US would want to get hands on that to see the payload.  Maybe that would explain why a balloon vs satellite or spy plane. Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude. >
  
  
  Maybe it's carrying some instrumentation that won't work from too high altitude.
  
  It's 66,000ft. The US U2 spy plane ceiling is 70,000ft. The Chinese J11 has a ceiling of 62,000ft. Most commercial aircraft are 42,000ft. Obviously satellites are a lot higher. >
  
  Further, there are satellites in ‘space’ that can see whether your toes are hanging over the edge of a curb while you’re waiting for the bus… >
  
  Yeah but the ballon can loiter around an area for longer. Also given where it actually was, I’m kind of wondering if it had specialized equipment designed to check on the readiness status of the minuteman instillations in Montana that a satellite isn’t able to do. Either that or they’re after the Krusty Krab Secret Formula. >
  
  Geostationary satellites survey the same spot on earth indefinitely because they are rotating with the earth at the same speed.
  Examples: 
  NOAA GOES EAST
  NOAA GOES WEST >
  
  cool but those have shit resolution cause of their range. spy sats are generally not in geostationary orbit. the reason those sats can be that far out is they are looking at things the size of clouds. most earth observation sats are in LEO. >
  
  Sure - it “accidentally” flew through Canada and halfway across the US without them notifying anyone >
  
  I've seen a flight path posted which supposedly originates from NORAD and they have the balloon as coming from the Chinese mainland. That thing crossed over both South-Korean and Japanese airspace before going up the Pacific Northwest outwards of Kamchatka towards Alaska. So they must have been tracking it since it was launched, or are they just extrapolating from wind directions etc? >
  
  
  Sorry
  
  A word we will NEVER hear from the chinese government.
  
  China's foreign ministry said on Saturday that flight of a Chinese "airship" over the United States was a force majeure accident, accusing U.S. politicians and media of taking advantage of the situation to discredit China.
  
  Figures. A "higher power" launched (of all clays!) a chinese spy balloon and then moved it across the US. >
  
  No apology, but we did get a lecture on how we should be reasonable about spying and keep a cool head about having our airspace violated. The gaslighting is real. >
  
  Russia doesn’t lie to deceive you. They lie to insult you. >
  
  TikTok that! >
  
  God himself could come down and confirm this as an "Act of Me" and I still wouldn't trust China. Totalitarian regimes do batshit insane things all the time, depending on which side of the bed Dear Leader woke up on. "Spy balloon" is well within the batshit insane realm. >
  
  Cmon do we really need to have the conversation if this was intentional or not? Are we really going to entertain that idea? Yall cannot be that stupid to think this was an accident. >
  
  You're too emotional if you can't entertain an idea even if you think it's highly unlikely >
  
  They are testing the airstreams so that they can put harmful dust/ gas particles in the air. >
  
  I’d be embarrassed if I were them. We have people just taking pics of their spy tech with their cell phones as we all watch it pass by. >
  
  The U.S. should just send a big balloon with Winnie the Pooh on the side into Chinese airspace just to troll them. >
  
  Chinese version of "Sphere" of influence xD >
  
  China admitted not having the technology to control an airship. >
  
  It's probably a distraction. >
  
  Are we supposed to believe that China didn't have any way of tracking their balloon? And if they did, and it was just an innocent weather balloon that got blown off course, what was stopping them from calling up the US and letting them know that shit happened, let's all be chill about it?
  I mean, we all know China is bullshitting, but they could at least come up with something more convincing... >
  
  Its weird how people are falling for this fearmongering hook line and sinker. 
  China if they wanted to surveillance US, they could have done it via satellite which has been mentioned by Pentagon as well. Hell, we both do it to each other already all the time. Also, if China needed anything else, they can do so via data harvesting through data brokers. Also, if this was actually serious, Military would have shot it down no question asked no reports nothing, we would hear nothing of it. Media is pumping this up (because hey clicks and views) and we are all buying the fearmonger. >
  
  In defense of fear-mongering... China has been, in the past two decades, the only real credible threat against Western hegemony. The dire straits Russia is in currently should indicate that, despite their nuclear arsenal, they basically relied on energy exports and were pretty much geopolitically relegated to the position of weak 3rd power (in the same vein as India) at best or Chinese satellite state at worst.
  Making a big deal about the balloons is absolutely Western propaganda. But they're doing that for a reason. It's signalling to China that they can drum up support and fear-monger and do what it takes to vilify if need be.
  China still is a legitimate threat to Western hegemony. It seems like we might get the last laugh on the economic front, and they've never been able to compete in conventional military, but they are still comparable in a lot of areas of computing, cybersecurity, and potentially using space (yes, outer-space. don't roll your eyes) as a domain. 
  100% agree that if it was serious we wouldn't know about it, but I disagree with outright dismissal of being wary. I don't know if I completely believe everything I read about the human rights violations, Uighur genocide, or alleged immoral biochemical experimentation, but even a small portion of it is true, it's not something I can feel comfortable with.
  The other issue is that a lot of policy makers for the US, GB, and to a lesser extent EU were educated by the same hard-line neoliberal academics who believe in the Thucydides Trap. So even if I don't believe the hype, it is concerning that policy makers, budget allocators, and button pressers might be. >
  
  your argument would have more merit if westerners werent already fearful and distrustful of china lol. just look at the polls pre balloon >
  
  to that, i'd say my argument maintains the same merit it had before the balloons. the strength of the argument hasn't changed and wont until something fundamentally shifts the dynamic between the two countries. they're fearful and distrustful of china because they should be. not saying that Western countries are blameless, but most of us on reddit live in them. I'd imagine, if I could get reliable polls on Chinese views of the United States over the past 20 years, they've been equally distrustful. >
  
  nah i disagree. your argument is that the media is drumming up fear of these balloons as a signal to china that america can do what it takes to vilify china. like you and i know, china vilifies themselves lol for free. i think its silly to believe that this is a coordinated propaganda campaign rather than just china either doing something nefarious or fucking up like they often do >
  
  the media is drumming up fear. china is doing something nefarious. whether or not it constitutes a fuck-up, is not something i can be sure of. i'm sure all countries have dirt at the ready to drop on their adversaries if need be. which news agency broke the balloon story first? >
  
  big diff between the media drumming up fear and "western propaganda" lol. and again, america does not need to have any "dirt" to drop on china, china drops dirt on themselves >
  
  i guess that's the difference of opinion here. i don't buy into the Chinese "whoops!" argument. there is more context to this that we don't know about. what Western media has been saying is that the DoD had been tracking a surveillance balloon. The Secretary of State cancelled a planned visit to China. A second balloon was revealed over Latin America. There's a lot going on between the lines, but what has been reported by either side is purposeful. >
  
  Yeah right, like I believe that story. I'm gonna do a live on tik tok about it right now..... >
  
  Maybe the real Chinese spy balloons are the friends we made along the way 🙏🏾 >
  
  Aka - lets test and see if we can target carriers with  hypersonic missiles via balloon……..
  Launch a few and see if the US can track…
  In tit of Tat diplomatic games watch for the US to ratchet it up a few.  
  Carrier port of call in Taiwan time…