comment: >
  
  Kinda crazy. When you think that Russia are ALREADY the largest country in the world by landmass… and they want MORE?!? Fuck them.
context: It's like saying there will be no peace plan. >
  
  Pretty much. The Kremlin is purposefully taking a position of moral high-ground in order to try and make it look like Ukraine is the one being bellicose and unreasonable. “We want peace, we are trying to negotiate,” the Kremlin insists, while massacring civilians and trying to permanently annex a large section of the economically and politically weaker, disadvantaged country, which obviously doesn’t want to lose its land. >
  
  It's like the scene in Mars Attacks where the aliens keep shooting everyone while repeating "we come in peace" over and over. >
  
  This is a fun reference I didn’t expect to see here. >
  
  Gak. Gak GAK gak! >
  
  r/Ack >
  
  Brilliant. >
  
  Arrested criminal: my plea bargain must include keeping the stolen goods
  Prosecution: uh… >
  
  Well the plan SHOULD include it. I think it should say: "Russia shall return all regions to Ukraine, including Crimeria and shall lose access to Sevastapol. Russian leaders shall stand trial for war crimes committed"
  There you go, included as requested. >
  
  Returned in their restored original state >
  
  Better to fix the area with Ukranian people, but get Russia to pay reparations. I wouldn't trust the invaders to do a good job restoring anything. >
  
  Are you insinuating that the country that failed at the road trip portion of an invasion is bad at logistics? >
  
  “What if we drive all of our supplies in one straight line along this road and then come to a stop?“
  -21st Century Tacticians >
  
  
  come to a stop
  
  I'm not convinced this is as much a part of the plan as it is a consequence of yknow...not having fuel/working motors. >
  
  To be fair, they didn't have fuel because they forgot that the rest of us can be like, "yo Ukrainians...we can't do boots on the ground, but how would you feel about a mountain of rocket drones and also up-to-the-minute info about where all of your enemies are at all times?" >
  
  I don’t think they forgot, I think Putin and his goons completely miscalculated how intense the Wests response would be. >
  
  
  I don’t think they forgot, I think Putin and his goons completely miscalculated how intense the Wests response would be.
  
  They are waiting for their assets in the Republican party to take over the House and stop the aid to Ukraine. The next few months will tell the tale. >
  
  And then 5 years later they pull the same crap again. Why would anyone trust a single word coming out of theses peoples mouths? >
  
  They really shouldn't gain anything from this war, if anything Ukraine should get Crimea back. This whole war should be such a massive fuck-up for Russia that they'll hopefully think twice about invading again. >
  
  
  They really shouldn't gain anything from this war
  
  Unfortunately, between the hundreds of kidnapped children, ethnic cleansing  of the russian minority groups, murdering ukrainian civilians, etc etc etc., they already gained more than they ever deserve. >
  
  But when Ukraine gets its territory back, joins nato, can supply Europe with gas and progress fully into the 21st century, they will have gained a lot back. And Russia will have less than it has in decades. >
  
  That's the hope brother! >
  
  It ought to include Russia leaving them >
  
  “…and Russian shall retain a certain percentage of the annexed regions.”
  “What percent?”
  “Zero. Zero is a percent.” >
  
  Nah, 0.0001%, they can keep that one nasty toilet. >
  
  They stick it right on the border and draw a semicircle line around it and then give it to them. >
  
  Only 100,000,000 more invasions until we have all of Ukraine comrades >
  
  Nah. Only 100,000,000 more invasions until we have all of Ukraine's COMMODES. >
  
  Which will all be built into a nice ceramic wall at the border. >
  
  "dibs" must be respected says demented man trying to shove himself into a stranger's car >
  
  I see it more as pissing on something to claim it's yours. >
  
  When your peepee blows stuff up, recommend seeking medical advice. >
  
  So basically the same as their current war plan (having failed to take the lot) with the word ‘war’ crossed out and peace written in in crayon? >
  
  There can obviously be no peace plans while there are still russians occupying Ukrainian territory. >
  
  There won't be a need for peace talk if there aren't any Russian occupied Ukrainian territory though. >
  
  Not to mention Russia has proven twice now that treatys between them and Ukraine arent worth the paper they are printed on. >
  
  The only treaty Russia understands is NATO and force. Ukraine will be armed to the hilt after this, actually, they’re already ahead of some NATO members. >
  
  With the amount of weapons and veteran troops Ukraine might be downright the strongest land army in Europe right now. >
  
  IIRC, Turkey has the second-largest standing army in NATO (behind the US), with about 2x the number of active troops of Germany or France, close to 3x that of the UK. On paper, Ukraine had a bit under half the active troops prior to the invasion, although they also had a much larger reserve force than Turkey, and after this year they probably have a lot more hands-on experience. >
  
  
  IIRC, Turkey has the second-largest standing army in NATO
  
  Russia had a huge army too. What is the quality like for the average Turkish recruit? >
  
  Asking the real questions now. Hard to say without actually seeing them in action, but according to the Global Firepower Index, they came in 13th out of 142 countries looked at, behind France and UK (at 7th and 8th, respectively), but ahead of Germany (16th). Granted the same index put Russia at the #2 spot, so… yeah, might want to take those numbers with a grain of salt.
  EDIT: On a side note, the index put Ukraine at the #22 spot, right between Taiwan and Canada. >
  
  In the video game scenario of putting Russian army vs Ukrainian army in an open neutral field with no external help, Russian forces would have likely dominated pre-2022.
  Wars don't happen like that though. Russia launched an invasion, something already difficult to pull off, completely ducked that up, and refused to back down. On the other hand Ukrainians are defending their home, receive excellent intelligence and also foreign aid. So Russia is disadvantaged or dominated in every other way other than their "firepower", hence it was useless in the end. >
  
  Ukraine got Nato Style Training since 2014... 
  and whats way more important, they got trained in Nato Style Logitics. 
  Logistics wins the Wars. 
  An constant feed of supply to the Front, 
  Food, Gear matching the Weather,  Fuel and Ammo and Weapons. >
  
  Russia is stalling. They want to take the winter off and regroup.  Even if they made peace now they would attack in a few years. >
  
  Yup.  Putin intends to retake USSR borders. Just like Crimea, they will stop at nothing less than all of Ukraine. He's just doing it in an installment plan. >
  
  Wrong, he wants way more than that.  He wants Warsaw, Alaska, and Finland too. >
  
  
  Alaska 
  
  American citizens drooling in the 0.83 people per gun ratio at the thought of an invasion. >
  
  Honestly, they'd never even get past the coastline. In a conventional (non nuclear) war, the US control of the seas and sky would essentially make it impossible. >
  
  Bro, you know they'd make it to Sarah Palin's house! >
  
  They haven't already? >
  
  Just her bank account. >
  
  Yes; Ukraine reclaims the annexed regions. >
  
  There you go, peace talks that involve the annexed regions, I see no problem with this. >
  
  So wait does this mean that if they turn the war around, annex back all the annexed stuff, and can annex Moscow then it's finders keepers when they sit down at the war table?
  What I'm hearing is the rules of peace talks are git what you grab, which raises some interesting propositions. >
  
  Ukraine should counter an offer that Russia will never go for. To allow Ukraine to freely join NATO without any push back from Russia. This will ensure Russia will never touch Ukrainian land again. >
  
  Kremlin can go fuck themselves. >
  
  Ukraine says come get some peace bitch. >
  
  Patriots will say so too I hope. >
  
  The fact that they are getting those missiles is just unbelivable. Will be a monumental boost to the Ukraine military. Hope we will hear of some of the sucesses. >
  
  It's one basket.  Wise to not put all your eggs in it.  I have no doubt it will be a huge help and save lives.  Should it be taken out NBD. >
  
  They still have all of the other weapons (minus usage) that we and everyone else have been sending. >
  
  Oh don’t worry, they all include annexed territories… 
  Include returning them to Ukraine, that is >
  
  They appear to be trying some new tactic of just constantly spewing contradictory bullshit several times a day
  Edit: holy crap this got a lot of upvotes* I do understand the firehose of falsehood concept I think my intent was more that they’ve turned up the tap recently! >
  
  If you say everything than online supporters can find a "source" that defends any position.
  They're not trying to convince people Russia is right. They're trying to make it so confusing people don't want to put any thought into it.
  The goal is people to say
  
  I don't even know, it's too confusing and doesn't really effect me. >
  
  I don’t know, it’s too confusing so we should just keep arming Ukraine till Russia collapses. >
  
  It’s confusing, we should just take Russia and give it to Ukraine. >
  
  No one wants Russia. Hell at this point I would be genuinely shocked if Russia wants Russia. >
  
  Whoever draws the short straw has to take Kalingrad >
  
  Hey, Kralovec have historical owner, WTF man? >
  
  Wow Russia is bad at this >
  
  Also applies to Russian logistics, anti-corruption measures, and every other thing that Russia tries to do. >
  
  Kremlin utterly divorced from reality about how much bargaining power they have after an utter debacle and failure of an invasion. >
  
  The only peace plan Ukraine has now is victory over Russia! >
  
  Any peace plan should include Putin getting yeeted out of a window. >
  
  We call that defenestration. >
  
  Special Presidential Defenstration. >
  
  There is only one option for a truce: Get the fuck out, and live the rest of your days in shame.
  That's it. You are an invader, there is no other truce than to leave.
  What they are basically saying here is, "Please just let us take your land already." Pathetic. >
  
  Lol. We are going to start a war because we want to annex parts of your country into our own. Then when the world condemns us and we are losing, we are going to demand the exact thing we started the war over as a peace offering. Wut? 🤣 >
  
  I'll never laugh at another peace proposal in Civ 6 ever again. No matter how lopsided. >
  
  Hmmm! Now that you talk about it... what if the Russian army was lead by a Civ AI? What happens next? >
  
  Civilization AIs never have logistic issues. Even ancient spear men units are still battle ready in modern times. A Civ AI would have easily taken Ukraine in a Civ game.
  Fortunately despite what Russian leaders may have believed, war is a little bit more complicated in real life than a Civilization game. >
  
  So what you're saying is that they're definitely using a Civ AI. >
  
  Annexed regions that they either retreated from or never controlled in the first place.
  This is why I call the "Peace talks are always a good thing" crowd a bunch of idiots.  Peace talks are a complete waste of time if any party involved isn't negotiating in good faith.  You don't negotiate for peace when the other party demands you to give up land that you just won back >
  
  And please let's never ever forget - Ukraine didn't "just win it back," because Russia never legitimately held the territory or any rights to it.  
  This isn't some land dispute that's been going on since before any of us were born, despite Putin's wishing it were so.  This is Russia, invading a peaceful country, killing their people, and putting a flag on their soil with fake "annexation" narratives every nation knows were shame.  They do not have a whisper of a claim to one square millimeter of that land. >
  
  Ukraine should put on a big deal about how he passed a law and re-annexed all those stolen areas and specifically include a no givsies backsies clause. >
  
  
  re-annexed
  
  And that's why they don't.
  Russia's illegal occupation and sham votes never changed the fact that it was Ukraine.
  They don't have to re-annex it, it was always theirs. 
  Pretending otherwise just gives credit to Russia's bullshit claims. >
  
  Keep marching Ukraine, ignore their bullshit, crush the Kremlin. >
  
  Of course they will be included. Russia will have to give them back. >
  
  Looking more and more like Ukraine has won and Russia is just demanding things now because they know they've lost. Ukraine literally has nothing to gain handing over anything as they're just going to be invaded again >
  
  Finally, something we can all agree on. A peace plan certainly must include those regions, with a plan for Russia withdrawing from them entirely. >
  
  
  Kremlin says any Ukraine peace plan must include annexed regions
  
  Fair enough.  What regions of Russia will the Ukraine be annexing? >
  
  The People's Republic of Belgorod cries out for liberation. >
  
  Belgorod speaks up too loudly Russia might hit them with more rockets, next time without saying sorry. >
  
  The Kremlin sounds like a kid making up new rules when he realizes he is losing. 
  Nobody liked that kid. >
  
  I'm sure a peace plan from Ukraine would include the annexed areas, just not in the way Russia wants them included. >
  
  Hahahhahahahhaha No. No, Dmitry Peskov - you can blow all of that nonsense right back up Pooty-Poot’s Ass. 
  Russia will be giving up: Everything including Crimea. You’ll also be playing for every inch of damage and debris, rebuilding Ukraine, building their schools and power stations, and paying for their education. Hell, Putin has killed so many Russian business leaders (and their entire families to claim their wealth), that Russia may depend on Ukraine to provide industrial and political leadership for the next 100 years. Russia may find itself part of Ukraine and the EU. >
  
  Thief says that court case must include stolen items from home he robbed. Only he raped and killed the occupiers too. RuZZia is a terrorist state. >
  
  "HOW IS IT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?? WE WILL STOP THE WAR IF YOU JUST LET US WIN! COME ON!" >
  
  Ukraine: “no” >
  
  Russia is that bully that needs punched in the face.  I get everyone is treading lightly, but I feel like this is the only way to stop this >
  
  We all know there will be no peace negotiations before the Russian military is either out of military arsenal or have lost approximately half a million people. For the sake of Russia's future, let's hope that the former comes first. >
  
  If those half-million Russians took to the streets of Moscow they could have this whole situation sorted. Those are the same sorts of numbers that brought down the USSR.
  If they would rather die committing atrocities against their neighbours, then perhaps Russia does not deserve anybody being concerned over its future. >
  
  
  If those half-million Russians took to the streets of Moscow they could have this whole situation sorted. Those are the same sorts of numbers that brought down the USSR.
  
  From my understanding, those living in Moscow and St Petersburg aren't sent to war yet. Maybe that's the reason. >
  
  Never has a country been more boorish than Ruzzia. >
  
  Then forget about peace. Ukraine should remove them all by force of arms.
  Every town liberated from Russian occupation has had mass graves and torture chambers. Russian rule is worse than war. They seized Ukraine's industrial heartland, their southern coastal ports, and some of their best agricultural land and land with recently discovered mineral and energy resources. This is not acceptable. Forget about negotiations with the Russians. Forcibly drive them out. >
  
  Ukraine has the right to a special operation in the annexed regions to save the ukrainian majority from the russians.
  Russia should understand this argument ;P >
  
  Since when to the losers get to dictate the conditions for their retreat? >
  
  Peace Plan:
  1) Putin to give internationally public speech ordering all Russian forces to stand down and surrender, condeming the war, and apologizing to Ukraine for Russias actions.
  2) All annexed territories to be returned to Ukraine.
  3) All Russian Armed Forces leave Ukriane.
  4) Russia pays full restitution to Ukraine for damages and loss of life.
  5) Ukraine to be militaristicly supported and backed by NATO.
  6) Russia pays for Ukriane to build a NATO center within Ukriane that will act as the future meeting ground for all talks between NATO and Russia.
  7) Russia pays for a Ukrainian Nuclear Arms program.
  8) Putin resigns and surrenders himself to Ukraine and NATO for prosecution (this is to be done last). >
  
  Well then no peace. Fuck Russia. More Russians to fertilize Ukrainian soil. >
  
  I agree wholeheartedly. Any peace plans must include the return of any annexed regions.
  Weird that Russia is admitting there can be no peace while they continue to attempt annexing regions from Ukraine but hey, good on them for acknowledging their poorly planned war should end with no gains for Russia. >
  
  Putin really wants to be like Hitler with his appeasement like peace talks. >
  
  He got away with being offered appeasement terms in 2014, and is desperately trying to do it again now.
  Luckily the world sees through his bullshit now. >
  
  Ukraine has also been arming up and training hard since then. >
  
  for someone that's losing a war they sure have a lot of demands >
  
  World says Ukraine peace plan must include Putin getting fucked. >
  
  "Annexed regions will be returned to Ukraine."
  There, done.