comment: >
  
  Fight Fire with Fire..... Cultural Genocide with Cultural Genocide
context: Fun fact: Catherine the Great wasn't even Russian, she was 100% German >
  
  All royal families in Europe are related. The British royal family of the Windsors had to change their German family name too when WW1 exploded. >
  
  There was a quote by (IIRC) King George regarding WWI. He said “my grandmother never would have allowed it” >
  
  Possibly true, the Kaiser most likely could have stopped the ball from rolling out of control. The guy was just an envious insecure prick who wanted what his British family had. >
  
  
  The guy was just an envious insecure prick who wanted what his British family had.
  
  The Kaiser may have been responsible for Germany's involvement in WW1 and had the power to stop the war from firing, but he most certainly did not start the war. That was Austria Hungary wanting revenge on a nation guarenteed by Russia, and while Austria did push too hard to be frank they had reason to be angry.
  To say that WW1 was all because of the Kaiser's ego is disingenuous at best. >
  
  Austria_Hungary may have wanted revenge for their prince dieing, but they most certainly did not start the war.  That was Serbia when they funded a group of assassins to kill the crown prince of Austria-Hungary. Man playing the blame game is fun. In reality every european empire is responsible for starting WW1 as it was a dick measuring contest amongst kings >
  
  Except it's not true. The Young Bosnia group was backed by some Serbian officers (namely the Black Hand conspirators), not the government itself.
  Russia wasn't too keen to protect Serbia cart blanche; it was the fact that Serbia ceded on all points of the ultimatum, but one, that clinched it. With Austro-Hungary deciding to declare war anyway, the favor of the international community swung in the opposite direction, and the chain of events started that ended in WW1. >
  
  Medvedev and Lavrov will soon call this a genocide and insist it is proof that peace is impossible. >
  
  That's OK. >
  
  Over the next couple of years we'll see anything and everything that reminds Ukrainians of their past relations with Russian will cease to exist. >
  
  About time >
  
  Odessite's perspective (I grew up 20 meters away from the site of that monument)
  As an Odessite born during Perestroika, I have been growing up in a communal flat (1 bathroom for 5 families) in a historical building facing the square that monument stands on; here is how it looked like in July, 2022.
  ...Except that wasn't the monument I saw growing up. The monument to Catherine the Great has been in this place for 15 years - it has not been seen there ever since the Soviet government removed it in 1920 after the Revolution. Having been erected around 1900, the only stood there for 20 years initially, with a total span of 35 years outside a warehouse, and has questionable historical significance.
  ^(The statue honors the founders of Odesa — de Ribas, Potemkin, etc —, not just Catherine. The statue of Catherine specifically had to be recast in 2007 as the Soviets partially destroyed the monument when they dismantled it).
  In its place, the Soviets installed a monument to Battleship Potemkin Mutineers, who rebelled against the Tsar in 1905, when the battleship was stationed in Odesa, in the port facing the famous staircase seen in Eisenstein's film. The site for the moment is a 5 minute walk from there.
  It was a pretty badass monument, and I was sad when, returning to Odesa years after moving to the US, I found it replaced with the monument to Catherine the Great.
  I understood that it was in the context of returning some of the city's history that was replaced by the Soviets — Odesa was founded by a decree of Catherine the Great, after all. However, unlike the ubiquitous Lenin streets and monitors, Battleship Potemkin monument has a direct connection to city's history, and the location — on a central street going to the seaport — is meaningful. However important Catherine was, she had nothing to do with the sea, and Odesa is a sea city. 
  Further, Catherine the Great is a controversial figure in Ukraine. She is not just a Russian autocrat. She has destroyed Ukrainian statehood for good during her rule. The century that followed saw Ukrainian national identity brutally suppressed, up to the Ukrainian language being banned in print.
  The Soviet government, though, did even worse: Holodomor alone is unsurpassed by anything the Tsars did.
  And the monument to Battleship Potemkin is distinctivy Soviet in style. But, quite importantly, the Potemkin mutineers weren't communists — the USSR appropriated that part of history, just like they minimized the "February" revolution (started by Women's March on International Women's Day, March 8th, 1917), which actually dethroned the Tsar.
  The successful Potemkin mutiny, as a part of the 1905 revolution, resulted in Russia transitioning to a semblance of parliamentary democracy, and was a beginning of the process that ended up with the Women's March and the Tsar abdicating in 1917.
  This part of history is not popular in Russia today, even as everything Soviet is glorified. Because, obviously, their Tsar wannabe isn't particularly fond of history that results in Tsars being kicked out. 
  I say, it's time to put that monument back... but that won't happen because of the Soviet vibe it gives off. 
  Btter yet, I hope we put monuments to artists and scientists in central squares like that one. Historical figures belong in parks dedicated to honoring history, not in central places where everyone is forced to see them whether they want it or not.
  As for Catherine's statue: placing it in a historically-themed park is the best possible choice, and I'm glad it's finally been made. From the article:
  
  Odesa mayor Gennadiy Trukhanov called for the monument to be later re-established in a park that would be dedicated to the city’s history under imperial Russian rule.
  
  Slava Ukraini, and thank you all for the support  💛💙 >
  
  Many countries are removing colonizer statues, so this tracks. Russians will have to learn to deal with their history and accept it for what it is, and spend many years apologizing for Georgia, Chechnya, Ukraine, etc. if they want a chance with the world. Give back parts of Finland they took in 1940. Give back Ukrainian territories, as a start. I had to unwrap so many things in my head and accept that I had some inadequate pride as well. I was taught that Russians are heroes and victims at the same time. Then when I explored what my mother taught me as a child (I haven't lived there since the 90s), I was like THE FUCK.....that was I think around....2009, when I realized she has rodnover (true history of Russia garbage) tendencies. And until the current influx of opposition Russians where I live, I only had Ukranian, Moldovan, Romanian friends and zero Russian friends. Couldn't do it. When I lost that goddamn "pride" and realized who we are, I got very lonely. And I blame myself for not being more vocal because of fear as many Russians are cruel and are bullies. I am very sorry. Слава Украине! >
  
  Some background: this monument was installed in 2007. Funded in full by Russian government. 
  It's like if Britain funded and installed monument of George III in Boston. >
  
  She’s not so great afterall >
  
  More like Catherine the Alright. >
  
  Catherine the so-so >
  
  Nothing bad ever happens to the Kennedys! >
  
  They're not accustomed to tragedy. >
  
  
  Odesa mayor Gennadiy Trukhanov called for the monument to be later re-established in a park that would be dedicated to the city’s history under imperial Russian rule. 
  
  So, a big public toilet? >
  
  I think it makes sense - dedicate a historical monument to a time period rather than a person. That way students learn about the errors made rather than idolizing individuals. >
  
  Yep. This is the solution. Dont erase the history, learn from it >
  
  I love that Ukrainians don't bow to tyrants! >
  
  The statue can be melted down and recast to memorialize Ukrainians. 
  Catherine the Great had her place in the history books but who is memorialized is a choice, and Ukraine has plenty of heroes and plenty of artists to design a new monument. >
  
  Related/unrelated: check out The Great if you haven’t. >
  
  I think that is very accurate in how much of a shitshow russia can be. >
  
  Huzzah! >
  
  She must have said something in 1796 that upset Putin. 
  Maybe something like, "I could never respect a man who shit his pants in public." >
  
  Derussification is what putin has achieved. >
  
  They should move it to a horse farm. >
  
  Hmmm, a reference to a myth that was spawned by a smear campaign to make appear as not so Great. >
  
  She looks like a bunch of bronze souvenir keychains to me. >
  
  This is a bit sad. I understand hatred for Russians but Catherine the Great founded the city.
  If Russians didn't win the war with Turkey in 1792 Kherson, Mikolaiv, Sebastopol and many other southern Ukrainian cities would still be in turkey and Ukrainians would not live there.
  I find it sad, but I guess if I was Ukrainian I didn't want to see displays of Russian tsardom in my city as well. >
  
  I wouldn't be so quick to bemoan it.
  Catherine II may have founded the city, but she also banned the Ukrainian language from universities, liquidated historically Ukrainian military institutions (which had helped her gain power), and attempted to force conversion of the people to the Russian Orthodox faith.
  Just another in a ~~long line~~ long list of tyrants colonizing Ukraine. May she rest in piss. >
  
  Ukraine didn't even exist in 1794, Jesus Christ. Very first mention of Ukraine as a country was in 1917, and even then as a part of Union. At least try to check any information before embarrassing yourself? >
  
  Which part of the comment you're replying to requires the existence of the country of Ukraine to make sense? >
  
  I do understand the sentiment on why the statue is being removed, but that doesn’t mean the history will not be there. My opinion is that statues which are deemed controversial today should be put in a museum, where the history of it should be explained rather than them being destroyed (some countries do that) or kept in an warehouse. >
  
  Statues like these?  Yes.  Other statues that were put up merely to intimidate a minority population?  No, those should be destroyed, especially if they were constructed decades and decades after the historical event, in times building them would have been politically convenient to the commissioners.  Perhaps that does fit the bill for this statue of Catherine, but I myself don't know the history so can't judge. >
  
  
  Other statues that were put up merely to intimidate a minority population? No, those should be destroyed, especially if they were constructed decades and decades after the historical event, in times building them would have been politically convenient to the commissioners. Perhaps that does fit the bill for this statue of Catherine, but I myself don't know the history so can't judge.
  
  This does not fit the bill. The city of Odessa was founded by a decree from Catherine, and the statue has been installed around the 100-year anniversary to honor the founders of the city (other founders are the smaller figures imat the bottom).
  The statue stood at that spot for 20 years before being dismantled by the Soviet regime. >
  
  Hmm I don't think she had much to do with the Putin regime.  Isn't this going a bit far? >
  
  Russian imperialism was a thing long before Putin was born. >
  
  I hope it goes up in museum >
  
  So, when they weren't making love to each other they were making war with each other? Didn't know this incestual bonding went so deep. >
  
  I think Catherine would understand tbh. Probably more pissed that some Nazi losers are ruining her country. >
  
  She wasn't that great.... >
  
  Did they drop a monument of a horse on it? >
  
  They are not destroying it. They will move it to a place dedicated to russian tyranny. There are torture museums after all, aren't there?