comment: >
  
  I get it. I'm the most cis het guy I know. The idea that someone might think my pronouns are anything other than he/him is.... weird.
  I understood that my pronouns aren't news to anyone when I introduce myself with them, but what I am sharing isn't pronouns - it's a coded message. It says "if you're LGBTQ, I'm safe."
context: /u/jeffersonspacecar (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
  All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
  Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
  ^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards >
  
  If someone has a preference, whether it's a nickname, an allergy, how they like their coffee, or how they want to be referred to that's between me and them. If they tell me that's fine. If I feel it's appropriate to ask that's fine. If I accidentally cross a boundary I didn't know there I hope they understand there was no disrespect and make an effort in the future.
  Do you think what I've described is a trend? Or is it basic decency? >
  
  The pronoun question I'm referring to is like when you meet someone new, like say at a college, and they ask "what are your preferred pronouns". Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing. >
  
  That's not too far off from my scenarios. If someone wants to make sure they are addressing someone they meet correctly why not? Sometimes someone tells me their name and I repeat it back to them to make sure I'm pronouncing it correctly. There's no issue with seeking clarity from someone, the alternative is to simply assume and go based on that. >
  
  Because you're probably 99% sure what their preferred pronouns are. And you'll be right 99% of the time. That 1% can be addressed by them simply saying "actually I'm a she" for example. But those 99% of people are going to be confused and maybe even offended that you don't think their gender is clear enough for you. >
  
  Allergies are also a very rare minority, but that doesn't mean I won't still check in if I'm cooking for strangers. >
  
  Allergies pose an immediate threat, possibly death within minutes. The response from accidentally calling someone "her" when they prefer "he" does not pose the same threat. >
  
  Neither do most social niceties, as I mentioned in my other comment. No one dies if you don't say please and thank you, but people will think it's rude not to even though the words are quite superficial. >
  
  It's not really comparable to "please" or "thank you" either. No one is really going "oh wow, they didn't ask that person their pronouns, how rude." Because even if you accidentally misgender someone, and it's an honest mistake, it's like bumping into a stranger. It's not rude, it's just an accident. >
  
  Is your view about it being seen as rude, or about it being a trend? It's a feature of language and now that there is widespread social awareness people will incorporate it into their routine of meeting someone. Honest mistakes happen all the time but that has nothing to do with whether or not a specific type of social question is a trend. It's not like asking what colour someone's fidgit spinner is, or whatever other thing you'd identify as a trend. It's a part of people's lives. >
  
  
  It's a feature of language and now that there is widespread social awareness people will incorporate it into their routine of meeting someone.
  
  If you truly think it's caught on this much, I assure you that it's only due to your social bubble. >
  
  I mean I don't even think it IS a trend. I have never heard someone ask tht in real life >
  
  Have you BEEN to a university? >
  
  not in recent years >
  
  Someone in a project I'm on was told off for saying "I'm a guy" when asked his pronouns by his team leader. >
  
  they just use guy/guyself pronouns 🤣 >
  
  ***guy uses guy/guyself >
  
  thank you for correcting me 🤞🏼 >
  
  Thank you for listening and learning!! :)) >
  
  You mention agonizing over accidentally misgendering someone, but I don't really know anyone who does that? I'm somewhat nonbinary- I lived as a trans guy for about 7 years, and now I'm pretty open to any pronouns aside from she/her. I know a lot of queer, trans and nonbinary people, and asking "What are your pronouns" isn't really a big deal among any of us. If we meet in person it's a quick, one-off. "I'm Name, my pronouns are they/them, what about you?" and then it isn't really mentioned again. If we're introducing someone to someone, we state the name and pronouns ahead of time. If it's online, they're usually in a bio. It's not a big deal, and it's over in a second.
  You also mention 1 out of 1000, but it's more like, if you're a safe person (and I mean actually a safe person, not a self proclaimed ally), or if you're queer yourself, it'll probably come up way more often depending on where you live. Living in the PNW, it was constant that I met queer, gender nonconforming and transgender people. Living in the Bible Belt, it's still pretty frequent because we cluster together, so to speak. It's an unsafe place to be, so we stick close together. You know X, the gay trans kid, they probably know that lesbian you just met at the grocery store by chance lol. >
  
  I will say I think it makes a lot more sense for a trans person to ask the question. Though you still run the risk of outing someone who would rather just not say. They may not be ready to say. But what you said made me realize maybe there is a place for the question and so this trend may still stick around but be more exclusive to trans people. Δ >
  
  If they’re not ready to be out, they’ll just say the gender the assigned at birth. As someone who is gender fluid, not yet fully out (friends and parents know, coworkers and all other family don’t), and doesn’t pass at all, I do this on a very regular basis.  
  I get this is a sub dedicated to defending your view where you admit from the beginning that you might be wrong, so take what I say in light of that, but people who are not cisgendered aren’t stupid. We recognize all of the issues that you are bringing up. In absence of a magical button that will instantly and perfectly transition genders without anyone remembering your past gender, doing our best to pass, establishing pronouns at introductions, and surrounding ourselves with people who respect that is the best available alternative (in my opinion). If you’re a genuinely respectful person (not some fake woke ally), then imo you don’t have much to worry about asking for pronouns. 
  Thanks for being curious :) happy holidays >
  
  Society has made this molehill into a mountain, trans and nonbinary people make up well under less that 1% of the human population, if you do meet one they most likely will just tell you their pronouns up front, if they don't and you get their pronouns wrong, they tell you, you apologize and then use the right pronouns for then on and continue with the rest of your life. This isn't hard and I wish people would stop acting like it is. >
  
  if it was less than 1% idk whats going on. Ive had like 5/6 friends and various youtubers come out as trans in the last few years. >
  
  First off don’t apply statistics to your personal subjective experience. That’s not how statistics work.  You’d have to apply them too all those people who have seen less than 1% as well.  Then add people like you who maybe have seen more than 1% and the numbers even out. >
  
  thats fair, its an average for a reason >
  
  
  Is that not demoralizing? Wouldn't it be best to just assume based on certain cues like we have been for thousands of years?
  
  It can be for some, but it also can be demoralizing for trans people who are not able to or don't want to fit those cues for whatever reasons. There is no win for everyone in this situation.
  Edit: sent reply unfinished too soon
  The reality is it's an easier hill to climb for passing trans people to understand someone asking them their pronouns the few times they are in a space that does so doesn't need to be demoralizing than it is for non-passing to deal with having to correct people and be misgendered most of the time.Trans people who pass have a privilege not all trans people have. >
  
  It's like, on one hand, you can just assume people's gender and most the time you'll be right and no one is bothered. Or, you ask everyone the pronoun question (which actually bothers a lot of people as we established), just in case a few of them are actually non binary? how does that make sense? >
  
  The opinion shared by nearly everyone is use what seems right and if you are corrected/asked to use something different, do that. 
  It’s no different than nicknames - you can ask a William if they prefer Will or Bill, or you can call them William and correct if they ask. 
  There is no issue here from the non-traditional pronoun side. The issue is entirely from those who refuse to use “incorrect” pronouns out of spite. >
  
  
  The opinion shared by nearly everyone is use what seems right and if you are corrected/asked to use something different, do that.
  
  That's how it should be but many people are hell bent on asking virtually every stranger they meet what their preferred pronoun is. >
  
  It feels like you're inventing extreme situations so you have an excuse to be upset. >
  
  Actually, I know what it’s like. As a trans masc, I spend forever agonising over how well I hid my chest. Being asked my pronouns is so minor. >
  
  If anything, I think it's going to increase. In my current line of work, I occasionally communicate with some colleagues in India. I honestly do not know enough about Indian names to confidently identify somebody's gender by their first name, yet it's still considered polite to lead with Mr./Ms. in formal emails. The pronouns that my employer asks us to include in our signature lines helps smooth that over.
  Personally, I would feel very embarrassed if I caused somebody discomfort or pain because I misgendered them. Getting it out in the open in a conspicuous way avoids embarrassment both for me and the person that I am speaking to, even if it is obvious from visual appearances. >
  
  Oh yeah that’s true. I hadn’t thought of the online world. If you can’t even see em and as you said their names are foreign or ambiguous >
  
  Asking a trans woman for her pronouns isn't the same as misgendering her and it shows you care. Assuming a nonbinary individual's or GNC person's pronouns based on looks, that is invalidating, and shows you expect them to "pass" for you regardless of how much they wanna pass. >
  
  You mention not wanting to hurt a trans person's feelings by implying they don't pass, in case they might think they do. 
  This is a nice intention but honestly, most people who don't pass/look ambiguous are aware of it. We're no less reasonable/approachable than the general population & asking for pronouns is respectful and puts you on equal footing.
  imo it's better than making a guess to try and coddle someone's feelings (as if asking for pronouns would, like, shatter their delusional world or smth).
  If you really wanna avoid popping the question, you can ask for their name... or wait for one of their acquaintances to mention them by pronoun... etc. >
  
  It seems really clear that you're not open to having your opinion changed here but let's recap.
  
  This isn't a thing now. No one is meeting a new person 1 on 1 and having a dialog that goes "I'm Brad. I'm Suzie. Oh, OK, what are your pronouns?" So the specific interaction your asking about isn't a trend at all. 
  We do encourage groups to normalize introducing with pronouns to destigmatize their use but that avoids the "ask" 
  We try to normalize correcting use of the wrong pronoun but again, that allows assumption 
  
  You seem to be fixated on this imagined midgendering possibility as if it's a "gotcha" for the LGBTQ community which misses the entire point of pronouns in the first place - the goal here is not to say "congrats, you passed" but to signal acceptance. >
  
  
  This isn't a thing now. No one is meeting a new person 1 on 1 and having a dialog that goes "I'm Brad. I'm Suzie. Oh, OK, what are your pronouns?"
  
  It is a trend. Just because you haven't personally seen or heard it happen doesn't mean it isn't a thing. And yes it can sometimes happen like that.
  ​
  
  the goal here is not to say "congrats, you passed" but to signal acceptance.
  
  For many trans people, feeling accepted is when people recognize their desired gender without needing to be asked. >
  
  
  It is a trend. Just because you haven't personally seen or heard it happen doesn't mean it isn't a thing. And yes it can sometimes happen like that.
  
  Cool. I'm a parent of a trans kid. I do a fair bit of work with the LGBTQ community in my area and my kid and my family are activists for trans rights. It is possible that this conversation has happened before?  Yes.  Is it at all how LGBTQ people, their allies, or the best practices established by both suggest approaching the topic?  No.
  We encourage allies to take the first step.  "Hi, I'm Brad, I use he/him pronouns," Brad might say when he meets someone.  Susie, who's a trans woman, now knows that Brad is likely to be a safe person to share her trans identity with.  Page, who is a non-binary person, might feel comfortable sharing their pronouns rather than allowing Brad to assume that they use he/him pronouns.  
  As for it being a "trend" -- all I can tell you is that, in my experience with LGBTQ organizations at major universities, it's not. I don't know who's defining "trends" if it's not LGBTQ college kids but I'll certainly welcome anything you can offer to substantiate this "trend" beyond your own asserting that it is so.
  
  For many trans people, feeling accepted is when people recognize their desired gender without needing to be asked.
  
  Great.  But they're not blind or idiots as others have pointed out in this thread. If they don't believe that they pass as their preferred gender, they'll almost certainly tell you what pronouns to use if it's a concern for them. If you encounter a trans person who you identify as trans and they don't offer their pronouns, first, think really long and hard about how sure you are that you know what's in this persons pants and heart.  As you just said, you just met them.  
  Second, offer your own rather than trying to guess or asking them.  They'll share if they feel comfortable doing so. >
  
  
  "Hi, I'm Brad, I use he/him pronouns,"
  
  As a "Brad", this is never going to happen from me. It's just so off the beaten path.