comment: >
  
  And 60% of those units will need a major repair in the first year.
context: The world's most valuable automaker delivered 405,278 vehicles in the last three months of the year, compared with Wall Street expectations of 431,117 vehicles, according to Refinitiv data. >
  
  Turns out appealing to righties who probably can't afford your cars isn't a smart idea. >
  
  How do you roll coal in an EV? Put fans and streamers on a light bar? >
  
  Put a big tesla coil on it which shoots out massive arcs of electricity. >
  
  delete this. someone will fucking try it. >
  
  reporting in. >
  
  There are noticeable shifts in the EV market. 
  Over the last year, I’ve been seeing more and more non-Tesla EVs on the road. Rivian, given the Amazon connection, isn’t that surprising as I’m in Seattle. 
  But the Hyundai Ioniq is popping up everywhere in my neighborhood. Polestars are also becoming more common. I’m also seeing so many Subaru Crosstrek Hybrids and Prius Primes. 
  Two years ago, it was all Teslas. But true competition is finally here and it’s going to be a brutally tough next few years as the EV market becomes more saturated with choice. In many ways, Tesla is facing the same trajectory as Netflix. Huge success as a first mover with massive growth expectations but then crushing reality as the core differentiator of your business becomes commonplace. >
  
  You are completely correct. Once competition is introduced, you have a bunch of whiny first movers. Don't like competition, then fold and die as a company. If you can't innovate past your new competition, or at least keep up, well, you're a dinosaur of a company and will be left behind to flounder. >
  
  And the current Tesla body style looks dated. A 2007 Mazda-inspired looking car isn't appealing. >
  
  its an EV. Body styles cant really improve unless you figure out how to make your fresh new look have a lower drag coefficent. The rounder the better, but that sacrifices cabin space which people will not like, or you sacrifice drag CF but then range goes down. You might enjoy the Mach-E, but its got a .28 vs a .23. Like the looks of that VW ID.4? Well you are back to that .28
  Go the other direction and you end up with the best in the world, which is the Mercedes EQS at .20. But have fun and get drunk one day and look at it compared to a model 3, they look the same with the EQS just a bit sleeker. >
  
  We ended up getting the eMustang. So far so good, higher drag co-efficient notwithstanding!
  Will do as you demand and have a few drinks now. >
  
  Ohh? Do you have bluecruise? If so how do you like it?
  For all that people rip on AP/FSD for tesla, coming from a 2005 Crown Vic that didn't have even cruise control, to a 2014 Challenger with just "I'm going to run you into a wall at 70 because that's what you said to keep speed at". FSD is amazingly helpful.
  Right now id still buy a Tesla over a Mach E due to what I've read about blueCruise vs experience daily with FSD.
  The other two EV buying points are 1) range overall 2) Charging capability on trips. Im totally fine with the supercharger network and a 300 mile range EV. The non superchargers are just frankly not at parity yet, so id need a Mach E to be more like 400+ miles as theres a much higher chance of getting to the spot and having both / the only charger broke vs tesla having 8 stations all be down. >
  
  Nope, didn't get the BC. Like the idea of it, but would we actually use it around town? Likely not. Maybe if we were planning on going further with it we would but we have another car we use for longer trips. 
  We were 100% going to get a Tesla, until we drove one. Made getting the Mach the easy choice. >
  
  I suspect the Tesla/Musk story will be a case for business classes for years to come. How can one company in an industry be "worth" more than all the others combined? The myth that it can vanquish all the others? The myth that all the others have no tools to combat the upstart? >
  
  It's hype. Large institutional investors are/were riding that hype. So much so that so many people have been burned attempting to short Tesla that I doubt anyone tried now that it cratered 65%. But it's also hype and folly to expect EV's to have a huge market share in the near future. They're expensive and not enough public charging stations. There needs to be a backlash against gadgeting everything until it's too expensive and just deliver a bare bones car. >
  
  Car companies should focus on making hybrids.  that Ford Maverick sold out it was as cheap as a compact car when it came out.  
  I only have and need on car.  Electric would not be good for me, they are useless if I need to drive 1500 miles to see my family.  I'm not stopping every 4 hours to wait an hour or more to charge. >
  
  It’s so weird. Tesla does well but then people complain about the cost of EVs and being “forced” to buy them. Obviously there is increasing demand for EVs. >
  
  Do the electric cars from Hyundai, Audi, Ford, Kia etc. have the same issues as Tesla cars? >
  
  Like rattling sounds because all the interior plastic is not attached properly orbthat you literally can not take a door out and replace it with another because of realy bad production tolerances? >
  
  When people complain about Tesla's quality control....
  That doesn't mean every one is shitty.  Just that the shitty ones still get sold to consumers without being fixed.
  It's entirely possible you "won the Tesla lottery" and got two with only very minor issues.
  The point is for luxury prices, every car should be at that level.
  Like, a 60k new car not rattling, isn't exactly something to brga about... >
  
  Huh?
  You act like if 51% don't have issues, it's not a problem...
  In luxury markets if 1% have an issue it's a big deal.  People pay the crazy prices for the peace of mind that everything is perfect. 
  Why do you think people pay a lot for luxury items?  Just to "flex on the poors?"
  That explains why you bought two Tesla's tho... >
  
  I see a decline in 2023 and a bigger decline in 2024.  Lots of EV drivers now hate Musk, and his image as a genius is gone forever.  Plus. Other companies are going to be selling more and more very soon.   Telsa also has terrible ratings. Great tech, awful cars. >
  
  "Great tech" - like what? I was recently comparing a Mercedes E-class (that is about to be replaced by a new model in mid-2023) with Model Y and Tesla lacks a lot of tech.
  
  I see a decline in 2023 and a bigger decline in 2024
  
  Their 2022Q4 deliveries missed investor expectations by ~5% and missed Elon's predictions from October by over 10%. And their orders backlog is shrinking. It will be very hard for them to continue growing. It will be especially hard for them to continue to justify their insane stock valuations. Tesla is below 2% of the total car market, but is priced like it was around ~99% of the total car market. >
  
  The value of used Teslas just crashed as well, which more than anything shows how much demand has cooled. >
  
  I can't wait to see the value of used car's in 10 years and compare EV vs ICE.
  It's going to be truly eye opening. >
  
  Why would that be eye opening >
  
  To see how the used car values differ between both of them. IE do you see a steady decline in value of EV's like how ICE are. Or is it more of massive dips after certain points. >
  
  
  During the fourth quarter, Tesla also offered steep price cuts and other promotions in the U.S., China and elsewhere in order to spur demand, even though doing so could put pressure on its margins.
  In a recent e-mail to Tesla staff, Elon Musk asked employees to “volunteer” to deliver as many cars to customers as possible before the end of 2022. In his e-mail, Musk also encouraged employees not to be “bothered” by what he characterized as “stock market craziness.” Shares of Tesla plunged by more than 45% over the last six months.
  
  This is key. They dropped their prices and still fell short of expectations. Elon fan boys can celebrate the headline, but Wall St. knows this falls short of expectations. >
  
  To be honest, analyst expectations have always been weird to me. I remember an Apple quarterly results where they had record profits, record revenue, and record iPhone sales. Yet because they sold 78,1 million iPhones instead of expected 78,9 (it was less than million difference) they were ‘short’ of expectations and stocks dropped by 4%. Seems counter intuitive with record numbers. >
  
  Stock prices/valuations are bonkers. Sure it was a record year, but the price it held (before the news) was that it was going to be an even bigger record year. >
  
  This is what I don't understand about armchair investing. Like, I I have a buddy who is trying to tweak his portfolio to weather the "coming recession". So he figures Costco and Walmart are go-to places for people to get groceries and other household essentials that people still need during a recession, so their stock probably will do well.
  But isn't that "analysis" already being done, and much better, by the big brains who do this for a living?  Aren't those considerations already reflected in the Costco and Walmart stock prices? >
  
  Generally yes, but large institutions are trying to maximise their return - Costco and walmark might be safehavens in a recession, but institutions might see more growth potential in other markets for the coming months  before that point.
  Your friend is potentially more conservative about returns over the coming month, and "getting it wrong" has a bigger downside for him than an institution that has the capital to hedge its position - your friend could be getting in ahead of the wave, and get a tidy return (by retail investor standards) vs the institutions that see an extra couple of percent in another market in the short term. >
  
  A big part of this is the wait times for the newer and better ev’s being released by other more reputable brands.
  A lot of people dont want to wait, so Tesla sells you on their ability to ship you their car pretty quickly.
  Once Ev’s from other brands become more readily available, Tesla will lose that advantage. >
  
  To be honest, people have been saying this for the past 8 years.. ‘Tesla-killer this, Tesla-killer that’. Yet they are still here selling every car they make. >
  
  Which is neither here nor there given their plummeting market share in markets actually competitive for EVs. What you miss is that you don't need a Tesla killer to outsell Tesla. A small city car may just be enough. >
  
  Tesla accounts for 2/3 of all EV sales. Of course that will diminish over time, no one company will own more than half the market. >
  
  The amount of mental gymnastics you're doing to find fault is hilarious. Of course I was talking about the US.
  They're still 28% of the combined US and EU markets. The China market is not really an apples-to-apples comparison. >
  
  Tesla also has superb battery technology R and D.  In the last months of 2022, it was the leading seller of automobiles in Europe.  Not just EVs, but ALL car types.  What's more... they weren't offering discounts. 
  Elon needs to come off his opium high and attend to his core business for Tesla success to continue. >
  
  Selling your “entire inventory” doesn’t mean shit when u made way less than you promised and your CEO is losing billions “owning the libs”, pissing off most of teslas customer base. The company is toast with wannabe trump at the helm. >
  
  Something tells me this won’t be happening this year. It would be interesting to see what Tesla’s last quarter numbers show >
  
  As much as I would love to have an electric car, I’m hesitant because of the bullshit many companies are doing including putting features that are already installed behind a paywall. Not that I won’t pirate the shit they do put behind a paywall. Additionally, in my line if business, I need an SUV. There simply isn’t enough space in a car for me to haul what I need around and being able to tow would be even better. >
  
  Same. Also, none have been around on the road for a decade. I'm not rich enough to buy cars every other year like they're cell phones >
  
  Better enjoy it, won’t be getting those growth numbers again >
  
  Literally can't go on forever, since their production would eventually have more mass than the sun.   Can probably continue for another 5-6 years, though.  Tesla targets production of about 20 million per year, but not for a bit. >
  
  Yeah but we gotta deal with a toddler >
  
  That’s an insult to toddlers. Musk is more like an edgelord 13 year old. >
  
  You know your CEO is bad at his job when you have growth of 40% and stock price plunges 70% in the same year.
  Do you think he will have to give back his bonus ? >
  
  I mean, Musky boy definitely had an effect, but the decline is probably 90% due to the general tech down and the fact that Tesla was incredibly over valued if compared to tech peers and even more compared to automakers.
  Apple is down 30%, Amazon is down 55%, Netflix is down 58%, Facebook is down 69%... 
  That sounds more like a macro trend than something specific to Tesla >
  
  I used to think Teslas were cool, but Elon Musk himself has ensured that I will never buy a Tesla. 
  Even if I had tons of money to throw away I would purposefully spend it on everything except a Tesla. >
  
  Tesla will always be remembered as the company that kick started the revolution.  Up until recently I thought it would displace other car manufacturers.  But the CEO turned out to have a lot of issues and the traditional car manufacturers are producing better vehicles. >
  
  Ford sold more than that in the US alone, as did Chevy, Honda and Toyota.
  Tesla are dead in the water when the ICE bans start to hit. >
  
  So what was the margin on those cars? Compare that again >
  
  Before or after recall costs? >
  
  Which recall costs?
  Just a plain and simple comparison of gross or net margin >
  
  Don't worry, I'm sure that's going to go hard inverse over the next year based on Musk and his parade of stupid in the media.  Not to mention the quality issues with the cars. >
  
  Stock gave up all of its 6% gain today >
  
  Stock market is closed today. >
  
  There are other countries existing in the world beside US >
  
  I thought this was basically a US-centric news sub as opposed to r/WorldNews. >
  
  Cue the Elon hate bregade. >
  
  And strangely enough, 1.31 million recalls. >
  
  If you count minor software updates. >
  
  that's what karens call software updates >
  
  I applaud Musk. Starting a car company from scratch is next to impossible. I applaud him for essentially being driving the EV industry and being the Apple of cars. 
  That said, they’re in trouble as they haven’t sold enough to warrant their value. 
  Detroit motor industry and the rear of the world big car businesses are like cruise ships — they don’t turn and pivot fast. However, in open water they move fast.  
  Tesla missed their chance as first to market and now those cruise ships are coming for them. With more resources and better supply chain than Elon could ever dream of.  Their economy of scale is immeasurable compared to Tesla’s. 
  Ford alone will do 4M car sales compared to Tesla’s 5-600,000. That’s just Ford. GM. Toyota. Hyundai. They’re all hunters now with resources that can’t be match by Tesla. >
  
  FYI, Musk didn't start Tesla... >
  
  Well yeah because they couldn’t make any of their deliveries through Covid. >
  
  Yeah tell that to the stock price