comment: >
  
  Here's another perspective:
  
  I would never, ever, want or encourage any woman (or person) I care about to enter the sex trade. If I wouldn't want my mother, sister, or friend to work in it why should that change just because I'm not friends with them?
  I don't want to live near or patronize business near locations where this is legal. Why would encourage the development of districts like this where other people will need to live and work in the vicinity?
  
  Now, I'm not saying that criminalization is necessarily the answer, but that's a long way from "normalizing" it. I just can't in good conscience do that.
context: /u/willothewhispers (OP) has awarded 5 delta(s) in this post.
  All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
  Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
  ^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards >
  
  So, in general I agree with you, but there are risks that need to be assessed.  Often times, people who specifically have sex for money come from more vulnerable populations and are being exploited for fear of losing everything should they not do this work.  What safeguards do you envision being in place to ensure that sex workers are there fully voluntarily and not being trafficked and coerced to stay with threats of violence or other retaliation?  Similarly this article talks about how human trafficking victims and abuse victims often show similar patterns.  So, how do you find the people who are in this situation and get them to admit they need help?
  Finally, how will you ensure your system does better than the current system for making sure employees are here legally, where often times things are swept under the rug or misreported? >
  
  Licenses for prostitution would be start. Both for companies and individual sex workers. Any enterprise with unlicensed workers would be shut down and heavily prosecuted.   
  Obviously I could not completely eradicate exploitation of vulnerable people. However it already occurs. Bringing some elements of this industry above board will give those working in the industry some recourse to rectify injustice and safeguard vulnerable people.   
  Though I will admit it wont be without problems. 
  To what extent, I wonder, are sex workers mostly coming from vulnerable populations simply because of the standing this work culturally has within society. People who arent from vulnerable backgrounds would never even consider it at present, because it would be enormously culturally destructive for them, damaging to their future livelihoods if it ever got out. >
  
  I mean, a lot of people don't go into it because they see sex as intimate, and sex with strangers as not.  That rules out a ton of people, right? >
  
  Yeah for sure loads of people wont be interested for themselves. Is that a problem? Loads of people arent interested in being police officers either. >
  
  I agree and disagree with you.
  I agree that the sex industry should be normalized. Where I disagree is that I think we need to go much further. We need to be much more open in discussing sex as well as the body. There are still all these taboos around discussions of the anus, as a result of which many men in particular put off seeing a doctor when they are experiencing a problem.
  We need to be more open about practicing non-professional sex and how to not only doing safely, but do it within the context of a positive or learning / personal growth relationship. >
  
  ∆
  I can get behind this. A factual revalation in another post encourages me to take a step back from fully encouraging the industry to flourish. I, for sure think it should be normalised though. >
  
  Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/CallMeCorona1 (12∆).
  ^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards >
  
  
  No sex, and no realistic prospect for sex also encourages individuals to turn towards more heinous means of finding release. Ie rape.
  
  Whoa now. Nobody rapes because they need a release. That's what a palm full of lotion and/or Fleshlights are for.
  Rape is about power, control, and humiliation. >
  
  
  Rape is about power, control, and humiliation.
  
  A good point.  
  !delta! >
  
  Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Various_Succotash_79 (8∆).
  ^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards >
  
  Please have a read of this article by a receptionist who worked in a brothel for many years, in a jurisdiction where prostitution has been fully legalised. She describes the reality of prostitution for the women working there, and it's not a pleasant read at all.
  There are many, many other accounts like this from women who used to work in the sex industry. >
  
  Human trafficking is a very real problem in places that have legalized prostitution.  Your view is that if/when prostitution is legalized and normalized that the number of clients will increase, which is true.  And with demand up, the number of workers will have to increase.  Which will lead to massive human trafficking issues.
  And, I'd imagine, a large increase in people being sold or otherwise pressured into sex slavery. >
  
  
  Human trafficking is a very real problem in places that have legalized prostitution. 
  
  But also in places where its illegal. I don't think there's anywhere in the world that doesn't have any degree of human trafficking. 
  At least when prostitutes aren't breaking the law with their job they can more safely reach out for help. >
  
  !delta!
  Interesting. I was not aware that people trafficking increases with legalised prostitution but it does make sense. You are effectively commodifying people.  
  That article does include the acknowledement that in countries where prostitution is criminalised the people working in the sex industry are vastly more endangered by their work >
  
  Yeah, it is problem that doesn't have a great solution.
  Legalization has benefits - no argument there.  Women having the ability to seek out help when they need it without the fear of being jailed is incredibly important and can't be ignored.  People will sell sex, so we should ensure those people can get help when they require it.
  But legalization has problems too.  Demand outpaces supply by a lot (even when it is legal, most women won't even consider sex work) and basic economics says that when demand is high, people will find a way to satisfy it.  Human trafficking increases to meet demand because the buyers won't be at fault for that, and unscrupulous suppliers will always exist.
  Like most complex problems, there is no simple solution. >
  
  1) Legalize it with heavy regulation
  2) Go very hard after people who try to get around regulation
  Basically the issue is that people get away with it. So figure out a way to make it nearly impossible to get away with it. 
  Not sure if you saw my surveillance drone CMV. Where I was arguing the biggest problem with crime is that we don't solve most of them. And I suggested a drone system that does constant monitoring. Not really the point I want to argue though.
  The frame needs to be "legalize but make sure it's very hard to abuse the system". >
  
  
  Go very hard after people who try to get around regulation
  
  And that is where the system starts to break down.  Its already illegal in most of the US, but I could drive you down a number of roads and point out dozens of places that are AMPs or fronts for brothels.  We already go hard when we can, but finding and proving a place is a brothel isn't as easy as people see to think it is.
  Like is someone walks into an AMP (asian massage parlor) you have evidence that they went in, but good luck proving that they didn't just get a massage.
  If it was easy to stop, we'd already stop it.  There is no simple solution to the problem. >
  
  What if you used 100s of undercover officers. 
  Is it just a resource issue? >
  
  Partly a resource issue - policing is expensive.
  Partly a proof issue.  Most of the AMPs are smart - they wait until the customer is doing things that police are not allowed to do before they offer their services (like getting naked for the massage).  If the worker is concerned the person might be a cop, they don't offer anything illegal, which means no crime took place. >
  
  The few times I've used hookers. It was very transparent.
  At a strip club in Miami. They are fairy up front about the "extra services" in the Champagne room. 
  Why do you need the rules though? Why can't a cop get naked? 
  I can't help but think "what if cops used infrared to just look behind the walls". But I know that was ruled unconstitutional.
  You'd have to make some sacrifices. But I do believe it's possible. Particularly if you made the penalty very stiff. Something like mandatory stiff sentences with no ability to plead out. And you made sure everyone knew about it.
  "Want to prostitute legally. Do it like this. Don't play by the rules there will be absolute hell to pay and we will catch you". >
  
  Chastity is a virtue that too many are forgetting. >
  
  Not everyone wants these values to flourish. What's the actual view you want changed? I'm not sure I fully understand. >
  
  You don't see the obvious problems with women's bodies being sold as an outlet for male sexual frustration? >
  
  I get what you are saying. Im not saying men are entitled to this service from women. Presumably there are women who would be willing to sell sex for money. People who arent just forced into it by men or social issues? >
  
  Do you really think this is a good career choice for a women, what women in their right mind would want to get fucked by random dudes for a living? >
  
  Your point is "all women who would want to be prostitutes must be not in their right minds"
  I dont think that can be true. >
  
  do you think being a fuck doll is a good career choice for a women? >
  
  My whole point is that sex work should be less stigmatised.
  You are just demonstrating the stigma. >
  
  I know your point.... you want to give a women money so they HAVE to fuck you... women do not want that. the demand will outweigh the amount of women that will degrade themselves for money. Sex is free dude, go out and get some. >
  
  
  I know your point.... you want to give a women money so they HAVE to fuck you... 
  
  You clearly do not know my point. At no point would any woman EVER be obliged to fuck somebody if she didn't will it even if someone already paid her. She always possesses bodily autonomy whenever she desires it and that is her inarguable, inalienable right.  
  Sex is free yes. Thanks. You too. >
  
  Ah!  Stepping in here for a minute.  
  The woman retains her bodily autonomy and can hand pick her customers based upon whatever standards she sets, right?  How does this solve the problems you presented in your opening statement?  Wouldn't there still be frustrated men who couldn't get a prostitute to take their business? >
  
  I suppose so. Are you saying there are some men who are so offputting that nobody, for any amount of money would ever do business with them?  
  Though I guess being in a niche like that would lead to leftover frustrated men for sure. 
  !delta! >
  
  If Western society is sexually repressed then what society isn’t? I have nothing against legalization of prostitution and what not(which it already is in some places in America, Nevada specifically). But the West is certainly not sexually repressed compared to the rest of the world. >
  
  Legalize? Sure, but normalise an industry that promotes objectification of women, unhealthy body standards, puts people in very unsafe enviroments, women especially, shows boys and young men unrealistic expectations of sex? No thanks.