comment: >
  
  How much are tickets to Van?
context: That headline misses the “new” part of the news. Vancouver not charging people for possessing personal amounts of drugs is already how it’s worked for a long time so there’s no change there. The new thing that starts tomorrow is that the Federal government has now decriminalized this for the entire Province of British Columbia. So it’s every police force in BC other than Vancouver that’s embarking on something new. >
  
  Hopefully this will progress to provincial health coverage >
  
  In Canada... that is actually in the realm of the possible.
  Decrim alone can create as many problems as it solves. Decreased enforcement has to be accompanied by increased treatment, intervention... you need to put more people on the job, no substitute. >
  
  That's why ome country, I think it's sweden?, Actually has clinics where someone who wants to do heroin can go and do it in a sanitary environment with a clean needle. They will offer them rehab of they want, but not force it. >
  
  This is something we only wish for Sweden. I think we still have have the highest death count of heroin addicts in the EU. Drug laws here are ridiculous. You could get sentenced to 6 month in prison for having smoked weed. No possession or anything, just being high. It's up to the courts to decide. The police can also force you to produce a urine sample or take a blood sample from you upon suspicion. The clinics you describe most probably do not exist here. You may think Sweden is progressive, and liberal, but when it comes to drug laws we live in the dark ages still. >
  
  This frankly shocks me. I always thought Sweden was very progressive with drug laws. I wonder where I got that impression. 🤔 >
  
  You are probably thinking of Switzerland... >
  
  In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts is an interesting read. It gets critical of conventional drug policy but I thought the anecdotes from the Vancouver streets were the most interesting >
  
  Gabor Mate is one of the most important people in the world of drug policy—he’s a key player in helping society transition from the failed “war on drugs” to adopting the harm reduction model. As long as moronic, anti science politicians don’t mess it up, countless lives will be saved, and countless others will be made easier by adopting this approach. Please everyone go read Gabor’s books or just listen to him talk on YouTube. Such an amazing person >
  
  
  As long as moronic, anti science politicians don’t mess it up, countless lives will be saved, and countless others will be made easier by adopting this approach. 
  
  This can be said for practically all policy.
  It's sad that those moronic, anti science politicians so frequently mess it up. >
  
  It's all of British Columbia not Vancouver. >
  
  Seeing Vancouver one would already assume hard drugs are legal >
  
  Can confirm, I live in a suburb of Vancouver and was downtown over the weekend, shits crazy with open drug use and homelessness. >
  
  My foreign students say our city smells like piss >
  
  I thought that was Winnipeg? >
  
  No, no, no. Winnipeg looks like shit. Vancouver smells like piss. >
  
  When’s the last time you were downtown Winnipeg? I assure you it reeks of piss
  Open drug use is common as well >
  
  Nothing smells when it's -30 lol >
  
  It’s currently -31 and I assure you it still smells like piss in all the bus stops >
  
  This is not a good idea.  They are just following the Oregon model instead of Portugal model.
  Oregon did not increase the resources for rehab and they're now suffering a massive increase in drug users, homelessness, and criminality. 
  Portugal increased rehab availability and made successful completion of a rehab program an option for criminals instead of jail time for many crimes. >
  
  Yes, and it *really* helps to embolden all the Fox News types (and closeted Fox News types who "want progressive things" but will change their tune the second there's a homeless tent within 10 blocks of their home) to say "See!? What we really need is more cops and zero-tolerance policies."
  Can we please get our fucking shit together on this and make the mental health/rehab investments while we still have a voting public that will approve them?? Keep this shit up and you'll turn places like Vancouver and Portland into conservative bastions because you'll convince people "progressives can't govern" or some such inane shit. >
  
  The only solution is involuntary treatment imo. We have to deal with these issues daily in the SF Bay Area as well. You can have all the treatment / support in place but if people would prefer to do drugs in the street vs. the rules & restrictions that inevitably come with living under public subsidization we need to have mechanisms to make that decision for them if they are being a danger to the public.  
  Homelessness is a deep-seated issue but there are ways we can prevent people dying on the streets and harassing others in the short-term while we TRY and fix the underlying issues driving general homelessness >
  
  You understand exactly how ludicrously arbitrary and contradictory your statements are right?
  First, how long is this, involuntary treatment?  You understand that by making anything, involuntary, that just makes it jail right?  You can talk at them, lecture them, give access to 1on1 and group therapy all day long... But if they wanted to take a walk or have a night out with friends they can't, because they have literally been jailed.  
  Next, what makes you think that just because someone was involuntarily taken out of their environment and detained in a place they don't want to be, they will leave and be successful in their recovery?
  It is very well researched and documented that voluntary admissions to treatment are enormously more successful than court ordered(involuntary).  I don't know the numbers, but the adjective enormous is accurate enough.
  Why do you think that is?  Well, cause voluntary means they want it for themselves.  They are there for themselves.  Even voluntary admissions(initiated and pushed by spouses/family/friends) are wildly less successful than truly voluntary admissions... I wonder why?
  I wonder why incarcerated addicts almost never maintain sobriety after release, even after a multi year bid.  Hmmmm I wonder why?  
  Get outta here with this forget and sit attitude.  The only way seems to be constant and positive introductions to recovery materials/locations, harm prevention in the meantime, allowing the addict to choose recovery and life for themselves.  I. Wonder. Why? >
  
  Going to try to stay polite (give it a go sometime) and agree with you that for the vast majority of people - voluntary treatment and resources will be far more successful. 
  I'm talking about the small, but visible group of folks who will likely NEVER accept treatment and the strings attached with it. What do we do when people are so mentally ill due to years of drug abuse that they can't make proper decisions for themselves? Do we let them rot on the street until the 'lightbulb' turns on or do we realize some people need more intervention than they will ever be able to accept? Seems like a good way to destroy public support for necessary progressive policies 
  Portugal, who everyone is praising in this thread, will let you pick jail or forced rehab if you commit a crime while on drugs. They don't let you street camp and hope you come to the realization you should to go rehab
  No one should go to jail for consuming drugs imo. But what is your solution to people who are a danger to themselves and others who refuse to accept resources and treatments?  I don't think it's letting them 'be', that seems like a 'forget & sit' attitude to me personally. >
  
  There is no right answer.... People should never be jailed for possession because that will never work.  If they commit an assaultive crime, than yes they should be arrested.
  But there will never be an answer for the best thing to do with someone that won't stop using.  If you don't believe someone should be arrested for consumption (possession), you can't just incarcerate them because they have been using for a decade.  The only real answer is harm prevention, constant introduction to treatment and recovery material, and either wait for that human adult, to commit a jailable offense or yes, let them live freely.  Just like you would expect for yourself if your not hurting others.  
  If someone is so mentally ill they cannot care for themselves and end up homeless, addicted or not, that is a completely separate problem our society does not seem capable to deal with.  We don't have the facilities and caregivers to involuntarily commit people who are a danger to themselves and that SHOULD be different.
  But like you said, we shouldn't incarcerate individuals due to possession.  Addicted or not, these people absolutely deserve the same freedoms and rights that you expect for yourself.  Snatch a purse, rob a gas station, break into a home and hit someone in the head with hammer..... Everything changes. Simple. >
  
  I think we are on the same page - simply doing drugs and not hassling anyone shouldn't warrant any sort of government intervention imo. But to your point, we need to build or rebuild the capacity to truly take care of people who are dangerous and having mental health/drug crises that isn't prison. >
  
  Lol.. have you been to Vancouver lately >
  
  If you’ve never seen people publicly shoot up hard drugs then go visit Vancouver, it may as well already be decriminalized there anyways so this isn’t really going to change much I bet >
  
  Toronto has entered the chat.  It’s not as bad here (yet) but declining fast…  source (one of many) >
  
  Trying to get a little bit of tourism I see >
  
  Hey, Vancouver B.C. Take a look at Oregon, specifically portland, and let me know how this is gonna work well for you. Sincerely, a saddened portland native. >
  
  I live in Portland now, but have you ever been to east hastings in Vancouver? It makes Portland's homeless camps look like luxury hotels. >
  
  This is good. Last time I was in Van I got offered, very politely, two blowjobs over the course of a cigarette, outside a bar. This is going back 9 + years, but it was an eye opener