comment: >
  
  r/ChinaWarns
context: Okay, we will shadow or warn you but we want to maintain the rules based order. China is allowed to stay 12 miles off shore in international waters. Russia routinely plays this game on the US and Canadian pacific coast. That’s the same that is expected of you China! 
  Thanks for visiting Guam! We hope you enjoyed your stay. >
  
  In other news: China is now sailing near Russia! Must be an act of war! China is gana war against Russia! >
  
  Okay side bar though: Russia would lose boots on the ground or even a nuke china fight.
  Russia would get steamrolled by China hands down >
  
  Russia is the paper tiger of paper tigers. China is close second. Check out Chinas shitty “aircraft carrier” if you want some laughs >
  
  Can you explain what makes china’s carrier so terrible? >
  
  Well first, it's based on the Soviet Kuznetsov class carrier. Russia also has one that's barely been able to leave port and has caught fire multiple times. It's got an oil-fired power system rather than nuclear like US carriers, limiting it's operational range and independence. It's aircraft propulsion system is fairly weak, requiring a ski-ramp to launch aircraft. It's displacement is paltry for it's length, only 70,000 tons at full load compared to 100,000 for the Gerald R Ford class of American carriers. It can carry about 30 less aircraft than the GRF class. They've also only got one because aircraft carriers are expensive as hell and logistically complicated to run and maintain.
  They've just finished laying down a new design in June as well that's a new design but I doubt that's the one he was referring to as this one hasn't completed it's trials yet and fairly little is known about it. They at least upgraded to EM launchers so they don't need the ski-ramp anymore. It's still expected to hold far fewer aircraft though, around the same as the previously mentioned one.
  Bottom line is that China still has a hell of a long way to go to catch up to NATO naval dominance. The good side for them is any likely conflicts will be centered around areas near their mainland so a strong naval presence isn't as important. But for global power projection it is. >
  
  Your final point is the most important one though. China doesn’t have a blue water navy, but also has no need to fight a blue water conflict. It’s got a green water navy and is developing more options. The US and France are the only countries with CATOBAR carriers. China is about to join that grouping. 
  While the current Liaoning is a joke, it’s somewhat less of a joke than the Admiral Kuznetsov. You’re right that China is nowhere near rivaling NATO’s naval power, but currently it doesn’t need to. That may change in a genuine war, but for now China’s regional navy is more than enough to be a thorn in the US’s side. >
  
  China wants to be a global power though, putting footholds in Africa and South America. Without any form of serious hard power projection I believe those efforts will have to be limited in scope. I also believe that China is a threat to the free movement of goods through international waters. If they're allowed to dominate the South China sea I believe they would restrict trade moving through it. They haven't shown themselves to be very friendly neighbors. >
  
  I don’t disagree that China is a threat to free navigation in the South China Sea, but right now their global ambitions are more economically handled than militarily. That may change but right now it’s less that they’re going around enforcing their will with power and more that they’re just buying everything wholesale. It’s hard to say no to China when they own your ports. >
  
  The only thing I wonder is, is it legit if the contracts are handle through corruption or with a despot? How will China react if a government after a regime change decides to nullify previous corrupt or likewise deals with China? 
  I’m hoping it won’t resort to military force. >
  
  The U.S. is probably gonna be like "Cool story bro, we'll just send another CSG* into the Taiwan Strait."
  Edit: meant CSG not CSN >
  
  Pull into Taipei port for a couple of weeks. >
  
  Kaohsiung* fixed that for you >
  
  Oh no! anyways…💤 
  🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 >
  
  Surprised the carrier even made it to guam >
  
  I’m sure this getting big play on Chinese state news and yet is barely noticed here in the US. Seems like empty bluster >
  
  It absolutely is empty bluster. China is free to navigate international waters just like the US or any other country. Sailing one of three carriers near Guam (read: andersen air force base and naval base guam) is a big joke. The message here, as usual, is meant for domestic consumption rather than for anyone else. The idea is to make people in China believe this is a serious threat and the US is scared of big strong China brandishing one of three carriers (33% of chinese naval air capacity) in front of one of the most heavily armed and defended US Defense installations west of Hawaii, and what would probably be the main base of operations for anything regarding Taiwan. >
  
  It makes me wonder if the average Chinese, who must be so proud of their three Aircraft Carriers, know how many the US has. >
  
  It’s not just the numbers. It’s the countless years of real world operational experience. It’s the lessons learned in blood over the decades that the Chinese don’t have. >
  
  I mean, yeah, but that isn't as easy to communicate as the difference between 11 and 3. >
  
  Technically 19 and 3 lol >
  
  Eh, I was being nice. >
  
  Lol. Also if you include our allies’ carriers it is even more. >
  
  Also true=) of course, I am not sure if the average person living in China knows what having allies means... >
  
  Thing is, we don't give a fuck.  China is fucked, 2023 is going to be a rough year for them. >
  
  China has the problem of a very large population of angry working-age men who are still expected to take care of their parents even though they have no way of getting married or becoming fathers of their own (decades of one-child created a horrible gender imbalance). >
  
  Russia has an opposite problem now. Panda is going to fuck brown bear >
  
  Well my Mexican ass would love a Russian woman. So panda going to have to step aside because this
  Mexican jumping bean is jumping to the front of the line >
  
  Russian wives are like Jeep Wranglers - incredibly seductive but totally impractical, and very high maintenance. 
  The seductive appeal fades in a few years. The impracticality and high maintenance remain. Forever. >
  
  Lol, this guy got Russian mail bride >
  
  Dodged the bullet twice my guy. Two long term Russian girlfriends. We are done with the Eastern block.
  We only date west of Austria now... >
  
  Most Polish women are fine from my experience
  But yeah, you’re right lol >
  
  Eastern European women are like white version of Asian women because both of them have stereotypes: beautiful, traditional, loyal, submissive, non-feminist. Oh, and both of E.European and Asian women tend to be fetishized. >
  
  Gotta do some saber rattling to distract from the shitty home front >
  
  Bro, if those Chinese sailors tried some Chamorro BBQ, I doubt they’d ever go back to China. 
  The food is the thing I miss the most about Guam. Take me back to Terry’s Comfort Food. >
  
  Tbf, there's probably a considerable percentage of them that wouldn't want to go back to China if they landed practically anywhere else 🤣 >
  
  I think the only people the PLA Navy are scaring with this maneuver are the poor crewmen aboard these ships. >
  
  Hopefully they know that there is definitely at least one nuclear submarine shadowing them the entire way >
  
  You know damn well every sub in the area is using this as invaluable real world training. And Guam is a major submarine base. >
  
  I once spoke to a guy who sailed on a submarine. He said China was so far behind, they were right under them watching them do anti sub exercises. The PLA had no idea they were there. >
  
  I was a sub guy. I can neither confirm nor deny we did that. >
  
  Was pretty much confirmed during the Hainan collision incident when the Chinese found documentation basically saying we were tracking their subs via SigInt >
  
  Yeah, sure china. >
  
  This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 84%. (I'm a bot)
  
  
  China has sailed one of its three aircraft carriers near the U.S. territory of Guam, Japanese officials confirmed, ending an already combative year with a rare move that Beijing signaled as a clear warning to the Biden administration over Taiwan.
  Beijing expressed outrage at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan in August - a move the California Democrat had previously rescheduled, reportedly over concerns about blowback from China.
  "China will never attack US military bases in Guam as long as the US military does not attack China or interfere in the Taiwan question," it wrote, citing Chinese analysts, "But having such capabilities is a deterrent against potential US provocations."
  
  
  Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: China^#1 US^#2 military^#3 Chinese^#4 Taiwan^#5 >
  
  I bet the Chinese never noticed the attack subs shadowing them. >
  
  The whole world knows that USA subs are patrolling that area. It's already expected so not a surprise for the Chinese defence forces. >
  
  It's not something the Chinese talking heads are going to mention. The real power is beneath the surface. >
  
  Everyone is very impressed and scared by the Chinese boats /s >
  
  China should really be focused on home, considering they are in the process of restarting the pandemic full tilt like 2020. >
  
  
  China has sailed one of its three aircraft carriers near the U.S. territory of Guam, Japanese officials confirmed, ending an already combative year with a rare move that Beijing signaled as a clear warning to the Biden administration over Taiwan.
  The Chinese fleet, led by the aircraft carrier Liaoning, had already spurred several clashes with U.S. allies in the region with its tour of the western Pacific, most recently by conducting roughly 260 takeoff and landing drills near the Japanese island of Okinawa, home to a major U.S. military presence. The operations prompted the Japanese air force to scramble fighter jets and helicopters, as well as a destroyer and other elements of its self-defense forces.
  But Japanese officials also confirmed Thursday that the Chinese vessels had transited to the south, near the western edge of territory the U.S. claims as part of the remote island of Guam – a critical element of America’s ability to project military might in the region as both a stopping point and a base for strategic Air Force bombers and Navy submarines.
  Chinese state news framed the deployment as an overt provocation to the U.S. and a warning against continuing behavior this year that has outraged Beijing.
  
  Aww ... poor "outraged" Beijing. Is this the same Beijing that has illegally  occupied reefs in the South China and claimed the entire territory of it for itself? Is this the same Beijing that seized Tibet? Is this the same Beijing that has thrown millions of Uyghurs into its concentration camps?
  Poor, outraged Beijing.
  Aww ... poor babies >
  
  Xi and Putin must have coordinated their tactics of crying over how unfair it is that they can't invade and annex other countries... >
  
  The sad part is, iirc, both nations have said something to the effect of, "the West had their imperialism and colonial stage, we deserve one too!"
  Which is, also, hilarious. >
  
  The west still supports its allies of stealing land, Israel steals land from Palestinians and Syrians. USA gifts $10,000,000 to Israel every day to ensure they kill as many brown foreigners as possible. >
  
  Yea, we should really be discouraging violence instead of encouraging it. >
  
  For china's Navy, just getting to Guam and back is a big mission. Someone should congratulate them on being that far from home. >
  
  Maybe some years ago. That is unfortunately changing rather fast though. China’s navy is in an utterly massive build up, including with its logistics >
  
  Their navy will falter at the first sign of combat. They are untested, unreliable, and inexperienced. You think the US is worried about anti-ship capabilities of adversaries? PLAN has no plan. 
  Three carriers? That's three ASM's from a single cruiser or sub. Their Carrier-strike-group? A destroyer wouldn't even have to fire its full salvo.
  One of our CSG's could take on the majority of PLAN's bluewater-capable vessels. >
  
  They are untested, but their equipment at least seems quite capable.
  And, of course, a lot of other navies’ tech also hasn’t been used used much in actual combat.They must certainly would take a lot more than just three AShMs to take down.
  Of course, the US would win fairly well depending on our numbers.
  But we would take damage.
  We cannot assume their equipment is much worse than our’s, and while we know they would have organizational disadvantages, one of the most dangerous things one can do is underestimate a deadly enemy >
  
  The Liaoning is a refitted Soviet era hulk Chinese bought off of Ukraine as it was left in Crimea rusting after the Soviet Union collapsed. 
  It’s a cope-slope carrier that is barely on par with a U.S. marine amphibious assault ship. It’s nothing like an actual USN super carrier. >
  
  “Cope-slope” is an idiotic term, at least when it’s used in reference as it is many times to the RN’s very capable carriers.
  But anyway:
  Yes, very clearly that carrier is small and not nearly as capable as Us ships. But they have a larger one in commission as well and another pretty soon on the way (and I believe are in the process of building a few more). The 003 they are fitting out is the closest thing anyone has ever had outside the US to a US super carrier and indeed will probably deserve that title when in commission.
  Plus they have started to commission amphibious assault ships of their own. 
  And carriers are far, far from the only factor here.
  They have a modern fleet of dozens of powerful surface combatants, plus a large submarine arm.
  They are a very credible threat if it comes down to that and with their insane build rate they get more and more so by the month >
  
  The French carrier and the new British carriers atleast have catapults. I would say that's closer to a supercarrier than anything else. >
  
  Uh huh, you try and do something over there by Guam and see how soon your ship becomes an artificial reef. >
  
  Watch out! China might try to convert that artifical reef into a real island and claim it! >
  
  I walked into that one >
  
  Warn the US about what? That they are interested in losing their military equipment? >
  
  Eh whatever , fuck off cunts >
  
  Good for you China, you really showed those Americans by sailing your ships in International Waters… >
  
  China is decades away from truly being able to project power out to Guam, but they are free to take sailing trips out there periodically. >
  
  In what way? 
  I believe they have the supply ships, or at least are actively building them. >
  
  Those ships are sitting ducks. >
  
  No more so than any other ships, less than many  with their pretty good AAW and ASW capabilities.
  They also have nuclear submarines that can come along and they have carriers if that support is needed.
  China is a lot weaker than the US navaly and pretty inexperienced. But they still are the 2nd strongest/biggest navy on the planet with mostly quite modern tech >
  
  Most of their navy are small, coastal based ships. Yes, they are building capable ships, but they are light years behind in technology and experience to take on the USN. If a shooting war popped off in the Pacific, China would get absolutely wrecked. >
  
  TDL that China's navy can get to Guam. >
  
  Is this just a regular thing that happens like every week now? >
  
  China ya lost.  You overplayed your hand. >
  
  China flexing on Guam is like the US flexing on the Madagascar penguins >
  
  it’s not a flex…they know what they’re doing…they just want to see what they can get away with…they are studying every move that is happening from every side in this russia ukraine situation >
  
  The answer is a lot... far more than most people can imagine even. Then one day the previous gains embolden them to go even further and then they can't get away with almost anything and all the previous gains are nothing compared to the massive losses. 
  This is pretty clear from studying the situation in Ukraine.
  And lets not forget that this sort of situations also have a small but very real chance of complete and utter extermination of all human life on earth... >
  
  We need Japan to arm up as fast as possible.  That is why China threw a shit fit when Japan upped it's military spending. 
  It's hilarious that Xi, the worthless trash on the bottom of a shoe, feels that he can tell Japan not to defend it's interests >
  
  You are right.
  However, most of China's arms, are either bought from Russia or are rip-offs or reverse engineered.
  So they have all the design flaws of Russian weapons. They are basically 60s technology, and very badly designed and manufactured.
  They have lots of weapons, but they are unsuitable for a 2023 area war.
  China can start a war, but there are no scenario where they win.
  Just like there is no scenario where Russia wins in Ukraine. >
  
  The Chinese military industry is better than Russia's now. >
  
  And Russia was suppose to be this militaristic powerhouse. >
  
  They're actually both weak and strong at the same time. >
  
  “Looking Good, Billy Ray! Feeling Good, Louis!” >
  
  US: Ok, then. That was always allowed. >
  
  Sometimes it would just be nice if world leaders weren't 10-year olds. >
  
  Damn near 8% of the population there are US veterans. That's a whole lotta unsupervised find out just waiting for someone to fuck around. >
  
  Nobody in the US is afraid of you, China. >
  
  Like any other nation China is entitled to sail international waters.  Freedom of Navigation is not a provocation. >
  
  
  They had a fighter intercept and provoke a RC-135 over the South China Sea yesterday. Came within 10 feet of colliding.
  
  While I enjoy bashing china as much as the next guy.
  
  The incident, which involved a Chinese Navy J-11 fighter jet and a U.S. air force RC-135 aircraft, took place on Dec. 21
  
  It happened over a week ago now, while this is still recent; not as recent as yesterday.
  EDIT: I see I've been down voted a few times, I'm guessing you lot didn't read what I said first, doesn't make me wrong. China still bad. >
  
  Thanks for the update - the Reuters article was dated 12-29.  My point - that China has a history of failing to recognize “international waters” - is well-documented beyond this incident.  They routinely have ignored international maritime law, as well as engaging in illegal commercial fishing in waters claimed by Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, etc.  This is all a part of overall Chinese strategy to project naval and military power into the region. >
  
  Is China still using that awesome sonar that found Malaysia Air 370?
  Worried; NOT Worried. >
  
  China seems to have the "technology" which allows it to replicate western tech. How effective , is up to debate. >
  
  For God sakes just do something or shut the fuck up >
  
  We must protect the G-Spot at all costs! >
  
  Watch yourselves, China! Don't make the U.S. send Nancy Pelosi back to Taiwan! >
  
  When I was getting orders to Guam in 2018 North Korea was threatening to wipe guam off the map, and now China is threatening. Guam is a beautiful place but used like a chess piece. Such a beautiful place though with awesome food and an awesome culture. If China even makes one stupid move there’s probably countless subs with enough fire power to sink there whole fleet lurking deep below. China is so dumb. >
  
  If i had to guess, US navy was probably salivating over the possibility of sinking some Chinese warships >
  
  6 or 7 subs following them under water lol >
  
  I know in the grand scheme of things that this maneuver is like, not even an incident worth thinking about. But also at the same time it gives off the vibe of China approaching the ‘fuck around’ phase of ‘fuck around and find out.’ And I don’t really feel like seeing what ‘find out’ looks like. >
  
  This is the same CCP military that got their asses handed to them in Kashmir last year by a bunch of Indian park rangers throwing sticks and stones? Check. >
  
  Good way to lose a ship.  China should learn from Putin’s mistakes. >
  
  china: acts illegally and provocatively towards every single nation except NK
  US: reacts
  china: what is this anti chinese discrimination? >
  
  it's international water, honey >
  
  I really don't think China has the balls to do it. Covid is eating their civillians. Their economy is fucked due to the recent housing crash. And there is civil instability on the rise. This would be a terrible move unless global leaders have fully accepted accelerationism. >
  
  There is enough electronic and audio surveillance equipment in Guam and vessels stationed nearby to get all electronic and audio intelligence from these leaky buckets. >
  
  A country that’s likely to be hitting 40-50 million Covid cases a day is itching for a war. Not sure how well that will work out for them. >
  
  sending some to the west is a pretty good start >
  
  Jokes on them.  We will just ignore it until everyone is infected, vaxxed or dead.  China underestimates the power of Florida man stupidity. >
  
  China is not a deep water navy. >
  
  But I love to see them cross the Pacific and go to San Diego. >
  
  With what patrol boats are you suggesting? >
  
  Preferably a sampan >
  
  Uh oh! Gas prices must be getting too low again. Time for a war! >
  
  Beautiful freedom of navigation. Works for everyone without complaints. >
  
  my dick’s bigger…no mine is way bigger than yours… nope mine is the biggest! ya’ll don’t know what a big dick looks like, mine is massive! >
  
  The radar profiles of the Chinese armada are now confirmed in the anti-ship database for future reference.  Thank you Xi, for your help.  We know who the enemies are and now the targets are on our list. 🐻 >
  
  It is as if all of the megalomaniacs are competing to see who can face palm the fastest. Individual countries and billionaires! It's like a free-for-all!!!!! >
  
  China's mighty Navy that can't even go into deep water. I'm sure the Americans are shivering. >
  
  How weak are they to flex on Guam? We routinely sail between their coast and the independent Taiwan, right? 
  What an embarrassment! >
  
  They threatening to lob missiles into the ocean again? That’s not very eco friendly of them. >
  
  When they sail this close isn’t it an intelligence gathering bonanza for us as in US? >
  
  I really doubt the US is at all worried about China’s floating paper weights they have out there. It would be over incredibly fast if they actually tried something. >
  
  Nice!!! Didn't need a tug boat!!! You can float!!! Gg >
  
  More final warnings from China? >
  
  “That was always allowed” >
  
  They’re liable to fuck around and lose access to those fishing shoals off of South America. There’s a whole lot of blue water between there and china. >
  
  Bring it. I'm sure the US Navy is foaming at the fucking mouth to deep 6 a LOT of chineese garbage barges.
  Yes, we'd lose ships too. But China would QUICKLY become a land ONLY power shortly thereafter. They can't hang, they are in DIRE need of reminding of that FACT. >
  
  Wow… China has the best Navy and the best tech. Pathetic. They will lose. >
  
  This type of stuff has been happening for a while now. I remember writing a paper about this type of stuff way back in 2019. Nothing will come of it >
  
  By now, both countries are just sitting ducks. All what U.S. is doing will be to not pay attention to China's yapping. >
  
  Basically, this news report is saying both countries are 'ready' and waiting who's going to make the first move. 
  Let's play chicken! >
  
  So another Tuesday.. >
  
  China better bite that leather strap pretty hard. >
  
  US Subs tailing it the whole way unnoticed. Armed with fleet killing torpedoes. >
  
  China just trying to provoke the US into conflict for some reason. They are literally going the “I’m not touching you” route like a five year old. >
  
  Lol, so?
  Just sailing near by to perform a freedom of navigation operation, so what? You're welcome to.  It's your legal right, just like U.S. performing any freedom of navigation operation.
  Attack Guam, and then see what happens.  That is a whole different story.
  U.S. has no intention of attacking Taiwan, rather they are an ally we would defend.
  What a nothing potato of news. >
  
  China,
  If you think the Russians fucked around and found out, wait until you do the same. Your army of starved soldiers will get obliterated.
  We can do without your cheap shit. >
  
  So cute to see all these little people running around all crazy >
  
  They do know about the US Pacific Fleet right??? RIGHT????
  Fairly sure the USPF could take on most the world solo and win.. 
  I hate the military industrial complex we have here in then US but shit...even I'm amazed and terrified by how powerful we are. We could literally fuck up 95% of the Chinese population with just the USPF and not bat an eye. >
  
  Grow up global superpowers. >
  
  The Japanese military has awakened and is backed by America. Now china has a new problem. Besides the 2 billion homegrown problems. Don’t know about brown bear or panda bear? But Poo bear has real problems now! >
  
  Can’t wait for the giant mech suits to come stomping over mainland China >
  
  for fuck sake, can we all just get along? >
  
  funny how people are raising a big stink about these things, yet back in the Cold War, the USSR was always sailing warships off the mainland US coast or US territories and we didn't think anything of it. They regularly parked nuclear submarines off both the east and west coast of the US and occasionally sailed them into the Gulf of Mexico. But of course most younger people don't understand that these days.....back in the 70s and 80s, I grew up with the constant threat of nuclear war.  
  People even get all worried about when there are Russian bombers flying off the coast of Alaska as if it is something new, yet they were commonplace back during the Cold War. It's nothing new. 
  We never made much of a stink about it then, and we shouldn't be doing so now with them sailing off of Guam. As long as they are in international waters or airspace, they're doing the same thing we do when our navy sails around the world. Quit with the thinking it's not ok when they do it, when our own navy does the same thing. Only difference is our navy doesn't act like assholes like the Chinese or Russian navies tend to do occasionally >
  
  PaperTiger >
  
  One of its three aircraft carriers that lacks a full complement of aircraft or pilots.
  I don’t think they have a full crew if you combined all three. >
  
  This is funny because the US, Japan, Australia, UK All had subs following the sea-born clown show. They think it shows strength but only shows their ignorance. >
  
  Warning? What warning? That they’ve finally sorted out how to sail outside of their territorial waters? >
  
  They could just threaten not to provide markets for Nike, Microsoft, Tesla, and a shitload of other Western corporations that have sold their ass for communist money. >
  
  Why can't all these countries stay in their lane? Just mind ur fucking business >
  
  Lol do whatever you want, nothing can beat Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan >
  
  China is getting more bold in these incidents. >
  
  The comments here are very unrealistic and ignorant! >
  
  The U.S. sails ships off Chinas coast, US good, China bad. China sails ships off U.S. territory, US good, China bad. I sense a pattern. >
  
  US reaction: Build up Taiwan defenses.  Good move morons. >
  
  Not going to lie, I WANT this war...first time in my life I've ever felt that way. I'll volunteer, too. >
  
  Youre a moron >
  
  we all know US cant do shit to china even sailing near its shore and this is the same for China. They wont do shit even if they are sailing in lake Erie. >
  
  I know a lot of yinzers that might have a problem with that especially if it steel. Head season and they are by elk creek lots of fishing poles and guns >
  
  Tons of anti-Chinese racism in this thread, to be expected. >
  
  Mirror’s Edge >
  
  Maybe they were trying to get a look at what a real carrier looks like >
  
  What a waste of everyone’s resources and time…when can we have competent people in charge??? >
  
  China being typical paper tiger. >
  
  That ship wouldn't last 5 minutes if USA attacked.