comment: >
  
  Cool story.
context: /u/kneazlekitten (OP) has awarded 5 delta(s) in this post.
  All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
  Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
  ^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards >
  
  I grew up with guns in the home, and yes, all of the dangers you listed could happen. But, if you raise your children well, the chances are very very low. 
  First, to the safe: no way is a child getting into a properly locked gun safe. Hell, most locksmiths have a hard time getting into them. Yes, they may be taken out to be cleaned, but I'm assuming your husband would be sitting there cleaning them, and then put them right back and lock them up when done. As for the try to impress friends thing, that is where the raising comes in. You make it clear to them, from a very young age that guns are not toys, and can kill you at any time. You also teach this while allowing them well supervised and age appropriate interaction time with them. Kids are curious, and you need to satisfy that curiosity in a safe manner so that it doesn't fester into something destructive. Father/child bonding time over guns can be very good for the overall relationship if it is handled properly. 
  One thing that I would suggest, that my father did, was to not allow any sort of toy guns in the house. No squirt guns, no nerf guns, no Lego guns, nothing. Not one toy that is gun shaped should be allowed. And, any type of gun play should be immediately discouraged and stopped. Important to note that this suuuuucked as a child when all your friends were playing with nerf darts, but goddamnit I KNEW not to even touch a toy gun at a very young age or I'd be in major trouble. Touching a real gun? Fuck otta here. >
  
  Hi, thanks for your input, especially as someone who grew up with guns at home. I like your point about discouraging toy guns at home - I recognize now that perhaps part of me being uncomfortable with the situation origins from playing with toy guns as a kid, and generally only seeing toy guns for most of my life, as real guns aren't something I or any of my friends/family ever got close to. So obviously the first thing my mind came to was - yeah the kids will try to find the key/number combinations to get inside the safe no matter what, coz it will be fun and something "cool". 
  But now I kinda realize how faulty this thinking is - they won't see guns like I/my friends did as kids if we raise them otherwise, explain it to them, teach them.
  So here you go !delta >
  
  There is no argument to change your view that is based on empirical data. Literally every single published study on the issue has found that guns in the home increases the risks of gun related injury/death for those living in the home. This really isn’t a parenting decision you should decided based on internet debate. There are published studies that are peer-reviewed and clear. Guns make your home less safe. Period. >
  
  I mean, that's largely because so many people who keep guns in the house don't treat them appropriately. Whenever you're doing population level statistics, you always have to include the fact that the population is filled with idiots.
  A gun in the house that can't be accessed because it's in a locked safe, in a house with kids that are raised understanding the risks of guns, is indistinguishable from a house without a gun. >
  
  
  A gun in the house that can't be accessed because it's in a locked safe, in a house with kids that are raised understanding the risks of guns, is indistinguishable from a house without a gun.
  
  This is wrong, because people make mistakes and kids are fucking stupid and make worse mistakes. It's not only possible, but actually happens all the time, for those mistakes to happen contemporaneously. This is impossible if there are no guns for it to happen with. >
  
  
  This is wrong, because people make mistakes.
  
  Some people make some types of mistakes. But that doesn't mean anyone in particular is going to make any specific mistake. It's extremely easy to keep firearms properly locked away with a 100% success rate.
  
  kids are fucking stupid and make worse mistakes. 
  
  Are you suggesting that a kid could mistakenly open a properly locked gun cabinet?
  
  It's not only possible, but actually happens all the time, for those mistakes to happen contemporaneously
  
  Yeah, it happens to idiots all the time, who aren't making mistakes, but rather make a habit of being negligent. There is a huge difference.
  
  This is impossible if there are no guns for it to happen with.
  
  Sure. But it's also not possible with a reasonable amount of care as a gun owner too. >
  
  
  Some people make some types of mistakes. But that doesn't mean anyone in particular is going to make any specific mistake. 
  
  "My murder toy is so fun that despite statistics I think it's worth keeping the toy that a single error can be fatal, and has no purpose other than ending life. I am also Rambo and defy all statistics that say this makes me less safe and more likely to die in situations where it may be nominally used in self defense." 
  
  It's extremely easy to keep firearms properly locked away with a 100% success rate.
  
  Tell that to all the dead kids of people who were responsible gun owners until that one pickup. >
  
  
  "My murder toy is so fun that despite statistics I think it's worth keeping the toy that a single error can be fatal, and has no purpose other than ending life. I am also Rambo and defy all statistics that say this makes me less safe and more likely to die in situations where it may be nominally used in self defense."
  
  You really, really, don't seem to understand statistics. Show me the statistics of accidents where the gun owners aren't habitually using poor gun practices.
  I work in industrial safety, and I have yet to see an accident where the person who was hurt wasn't already cutting corners (or someone around them wasn't). It's so understood, that the rule of thumb is that for every "near miss" that is reported (a dangerous situation that didn't actually wind up hurting anyone) there is assumed to have been 10 that weren't reported. "Mistakes" aren't really a thing. Habitual bad practices are.
  
  Tell that to all the dead kids of people who were responsible gun owners until that one pickup.
  
  This isn't a thing. It's not. You're imagining a scenario that doesn't exist. >
  
  
  
  Tell that to all the dead kids of people who were responsible gun owners until that one pickup.
  
  This isn't a thing. It's not. You're imagining a scenario that doesn't exist.
  
  Of course it's a thing. You're falling to the No True Scotsman fallacy, saying that definitionally any error makes someone an irresponsible gun owner. That's not how this works without your world beginning and ending in nothing but tautology. I may as well say that gun owners are only the ones who have accidents, and everyone else is merely a gun supplicant and definitionally not an owner. It's real easy to "win"  a debate when the victory condition is defined by your correctness. >
  
  That's not the argument I'm making at all. The argument goes like this:
  P1. Children getting shot by guns are never the result of a singular mistake, but rather the result of a habitual pattern of irresponsible gun practices.
  P2. Responsible gun owners don't make a habit of being irresponsible with guns.
  C. Children are not killed as a result of responsible gun owners.
  I think that's a pretty reasonable definition. But feel free to disagree with either P1 or P2.
  Edit: I think where you're getting stuck, is that you're confusing data useful in public policy, with data useful for individual decisions. At a population level, it's inevitable that some number of people are going to make a habit of poor decisions and habits around guns, and it's not something that is controllable by the state (presuming guns are in the house). However, the choices of the gun owner are in fact under the control of the individual gun owner, and it is in fact possible to accurately assess your own practices with regard to firearms. >
  
  While accidents certainly happen, I think a lot of people overestimate how easy it is to shoot a gun that's being properly maintained and secured. 
  As you said, if they're in the safe, and the kids don't know how to open the safe (which is very easy to make sure of), then they're completely harmless while they're in there. 
  On the occasion that they're taken out to clean or something, then they're not in any condition to be fired. The gun has to be fully assembled, intentionally loaded, and most likely "chambered" before it can fire. 
  I know people hate it when you compare guns to cars, but the concept is the same. There is absolutely the chance for something to go wrong if you're not being appropriately careful with this potentially deadly object, but if you ARE, then you greatly stack the odds in your favor. 
  And your husband has a point about exposing the kids in a safe way. In just the same way that "Don't ever have sex" is a horrible way to approach safe sex, "Don't ever be near a gun" is likewise ineffective. You won't always be able to control what your kids are exposed to, so the smart thing to do is to teach them to be responsible. >
  
  It's true that I won't always be able to control what they're exposed to. It's possible that they'll move to country with greater gun accessibility or find a friend whose parents have guns, however unlikely.. so yeah it's a god point that it would be more effective to expose them to it safely. 
  !delta >
  
  It also gives a feeling of responsibility and respect for your teachings when you teach kids about how to properly use something that can injure or kill them if they violate the rules.  It's necessary to be much more aware when doing certain things, like handling guns, babies, and cars. Learning to be responsible with guns is a great way to build confidence and respect. >
  
  One thing you're not mentioning is that a gun needs ammunition to be dangerous. Even if your husband doesn't always watch the gun while he's maintaining it, it's not dangerous as long as he keeps the ammunition in the safe. >
  
  You are actually right, I didn't take that into consideration at all. It's one more point to how safety could perhaps be preserved. !delta >
  
  My ammo is inside my wall safe. The only gun laying out is a 12 gauge, and it would be extremely hard for a child to load it and use it due to weight and size.
  My box of shells is accessible if you go through my room, but I have a lock for a reason >
  
  
  The only gun laying out is a 12 gauge, and it would be extremely hard for a child to load it and use it due to weight and size
  
  I wish that were the case for me.  My 9 year old is bigger than me and could probably handle the 12g wayyyy better than I did (with recoil) 🤣🤣 do you know how embarrassing that is to admit? >
  
  Compromise with your husband. Learning to respect a weapon, like your children have been taught to do with knives, is a crucial skill. Have your husband take them out to target shoot, let him teach them about guns so they don't appear as scary, or foreign to your children. But also understand that they won't pick this information up instantly, in the meanwhile your husband should be keeping them locked away in a safe, and properly keeping tabs on them at all times.
  This seems like a great chance for a learning opportunity, and it gives time for your kids and their father to bond. >
  
  You're right that even though there's much lesser chance of them encountering a gun than for instance in the US, it could possibly be beneficial for them to learn to respect a weapon and manipulate it safely. They'd also probably be less prone to trying to get to them out of pure curiosity. 
  !delta for that. >
  
  Your children will definitely encounter things that are dangerous, but probably not guns outside the house. Teaching the clear rules about gun safety and how to respect guns helps teach responsibility and common sense to your kids. They'll be able to handle other potentially dangerous things better if you teach them about guns. >
  
  Poor parents parent poorly.   
  Good parents teach their kids responsibility, respect, and safety.   
  Your kids won't be able to open a good gun safe unless you give them the combination. If you can't afford a good gun safe, you can't have guns.  That's a question about your finances that only you guys can answer.   
  As your kids grow, introduce them to guns. Teach them how dangerous they are if mishandled. Ensure that they know how to use a gun properly. How to be safe around a gun. How to respect a gun. Ensure that guns aren't a mystery item or something to be curious about. They're a dangerous tool to be respected and treated correctly.  Don't let them become objects of curiosity in any way.   
  I grew up in an area where every house had hunting rifles. Most of the time they were just on a gun rack unlocked. Every home around was the same. None of us kids ever touched a gun without permission. We weren't curious about guns because we saw them used regularly, and we got to shoot them frequently. But we also knew that touching a gun without permission was a one-way ticket to the worst punishment we'd ever receive.   
  Guns in the home are dangerous for parents who are either of bad parents or irresponsible. They are not inherently more dangerous than, say, a shop full of power tools or a shed with motorcycles in it. >
  
  It's a point made by more people here and really it's quite valid. Maybe if it's nothing mysterious to be curious about, they really won't go trying to get to the guns even if we forbid it (for example while we're not home). 
  My husband wanted to get a safe with a key. Though it was probably good quality (and quite expensive), I feel that a hidden key can be always found - but perhaps a number combination will be easier to keep from kids if we're being very careful while going in and out of the safe.
  !delta >
  
  Just so you know some of your options, there are safes that open with your finger print, as well as safes that connect to your wifi and will send an alert to your phone if the safe is accessed or tampered with. >
  
  
  My view is that while we can't comfortably live without a knife, we sure can without a gun.
  
  This kind of showcases that you accept whatever risk knife presence has compared to their utility. Guns (or any other item) are the same. Many people will put their knives in a drawer with a child lock on it so their kids do not get into it. Putting guns into a proper (good) safe is similar to that. Bonus points if you have a second safe with different key/combination to store ammunition (separately from the guns). >
  
  You absolutely should be a total helicopter mom and never let any chance of anything ever hurt your precious babies. YOur husband should stop doing anything remotely dangerous, and you should line your home with padded walls. That way you'll be safe.
  Have your food delivered to your home. You could get hurt going outside. And so on and so forth. In other words, grow up and stop being insane. >
  
  American here. I own about a dozen guns and have 3 kids. 
  Those guns are locked in gun safes, including a quick access one for self-defense.
  Teaching your kids responsibility and safety for a myriad of things is up to you.
  And even in the US, with more guns than people, the statistics for unintentional firearms deaths are incredibly small.
  As a parent I am more worried about falls, house hold chemicals, bodies of water, and automobile accidents. >
  
  I believe it is better to teach the children the importance of the safety of firearms and the dangers while having firearms in the house. Even teaching them how to properly use them should help improve that as well.
  Then, proper storage of the firearm.
  At least where I live, firearms are integral to our way of life and constitution. And... this was also how we managed to secure and maintain our independence.
  And a good reminder that one Japanese man once said (I think it was japanese) for every blade of grass, there will be a rifle behind it. Making it nearly impossible for another country to ever invade.
  So it is more than just safety >
  
  
  For instance I'm imagining teenage or slightly younger boys trying to impress their friends when we're not home
  
  A friend of mine here in Czech Republic needed to get a safe because he has more guns and law here requires to have it stored safely. He did thorough investigation on them and bought something that would protect guns even in case of a robbery. It's against the law to enable access to anyone else without a license to them. So even teenagers should be out of the question if you buy something from reputable brand. But then I've remembered how 
  LockPickingLawyer picks seemingly reputable brands and I'm less sure about that.
  
  Same way, he wouldn't even necessarily want to hide/lock the guns from kids, but rather show them from young age how to safely manipulate the gun.
  
  This is thin ice he's getting on. But he and his father are both alive. So my guess is he knows what's the deal. If you teach someone from young age to have respect to something it'll stick with them. Guns are serious business and anyone trying to handle them safely must know that. So I think it's good to teach your kids from young age.
  Also chances are kids will have no interest in guns. My father is a beekeeper and I have no interest in bees. So that might be your case as well. >
  
  I grew up with guns around the house. My dad works in law enforcement and hunts, so there were always guns around. I remember when i was older (maybe around 8+) they would sometimes be sitting on his desk or whatever (not loaded obviously). But it was never a problem because I was raised with them and taught to use them responsibly and safely. I also went hunting and that taught me that they do in fact have the power to kill things. 
  That's the problem with a lot of people, they don't understand them, they only fear them. A lot of freak accidents with guns that I've seen have involved people that weren't familiar with firearms. If we were more careful, responsible, and informed about them, there wouldn't be near as many accidents. 
  That's just my two cents. >
  
  First of all, how is a kid going to get into a safe ? 
  Second of all, let’s say a kid does get into the safe, maybe make your second line of defense to not have a round in the chamber. My 24 year old girlfriend struggles to rack the slide on a handgun. I doubt a small child is going to be able to. 
  Third, for curious teens they always do a lot of dumb shit. I think in that scenario you need to teach them proper gun safety and take them to the range and whatnot. It’s super dangerous to have a dumb curious teen in the house with guns if they have no idea about gun safety. 
  4th if you’re stillll worried then unload all the guns and put the ammo somewhere separate in a locked container and keep the key on your person. Or you could even do the same with the gun safe. One key on YOUR keychain and no one else. You could have one handgun or rifle you keep separately loaded as a home defense gun in a quick access safe. 
  But In all reality just keep the safe locked. Most of the good ones just have some sort of number combination. Don’t tell your kids the combination and it’s simple as that. >
  
  I grew up with firearms in the home from a young age, and here's what I would say:
  1) Your husband is probably right that teaching your kids firearm safety is crucial if you're going to have guns in the home.
  2) You absolutely should have the guns locked up at all times if you don't want your children to access them when you're not at home/watching them. 
  3) Your kids being responsible doesn't necessarily mean that their friends will be.
  4) A properly locked gun safe with a key or a code that the kids don't know is nearly impossible to get into without specialize equipment.
  On that last point: I was a very delinquent teenager -- drugs, petty crimes, a few run-ins with police, etc. At home, I was treated as you might expect... My parents would shut off the internet after midnight so I would have to go to bed. My dad would hide or lock up my video game system controllers so I couldn't play games when I was supposed to be doing homework. My parents installed a home security system both inside and out to keep track of who I was inviting over, and what I was getting up to.
  It was a constant battle of wills with my parents, and they had more will than most probably would. I learned everything I could about network access and computers to circumvent their wishes. I learned to pick locks, and break into safes, lockboxes, and rooms as a result. I also learned how to lie and hide things from my parents. The one thing I never learned how to do was break into my dad's gunsafe. 
  All this to be said, gun ownership or not wanting to own guns isn't really a rational argument either way. Both you and your husband need to work out together what's best for your family, and settle on a set of concessions and rules about how and where the guns will be store. When you'll introduce your children to firearms. How and when the guns will be used, etc. You certainly CAN have a safe environment with guns in the home. You also can have an unsafe environment, and that all comes down to your responsibility as gun owners and as parents. Best of luck! >
  
  Education is key. I live in an area where there are loads of guns everywhere but anyone having an accident is unheard of, much less children. People here are often taught exactly how guns work, how to fire them, and shown what kind of destruction they. This removes a child's curiosity for trying to figure out all that stuff on their own while you're not home and shows them to respect what firearms can do. Children shown how to hunt bear and deer have a full understanding of what firearms can do and what shooting one means. It's also pretty standard that children are educated to never ever touch guns without it being with an adult present, or specifically a parent. So kids know never to touch a firearms on their own, and they've lost all their curiosity since they have a full understanding of firearms.
  Plus it's really easy to just lock them up and put the ammo somewhere else. >
  
  Any responsible gun owner, which it sounds like he probably is if he is into sport shooting, will have their firearms stored securely, and unloaded, in a safe.
  Furthermore, their ammunition would probably be stored securely as well.
  People who sport shoot often have kids, and child safety is often talked about amongst these types of people.  As these sports are dangerous and require some degree of discipline children of these people are taught the fundamental safety rules from a very young age.
  Parents who own guns are often more strict about safe gun usage than you would imagine, often disallowing them to point toy guns at people, and other typical child things that normal parents wouldn't pay much mind to because, "they're just toys."
  To be honest, if I had a choice of who I'd rather trust with a loaded gun, between an 8 year old child whose parents are into sport shooting and instilled
  gun safety since childhood, or some random adult, it is 10/10 for the kid.
  Children who typically have accidents with guns are those whose parents are not responsible gun owners, whose parents have illegal guns, and are involved in other types of negligence.
  Your husband isn't going to be swayed by your sense of fear due to your limited knowledge of guns, because he likely already knows what gun safety is all about, so why not show him your concerned by also educating yourself in gun safety?  Maybe there are some things he can do to improve gun safety, because if their dad is into sport shooting, the kids are definitely 100% going to be exposed to it, one way, or another.
  The biggest risk to getting hurt for kids who family guns is the family are going to be when they're using them otherwise safely.  Make sure when he is going to introduce the kids to shooting, that he has an appropriately sized gun for kids, which they do make.  Make sure he has child-sized safety glasses, and make sure they have child-sized hearing protection.  They make story books for kids to teach gun safety, as insane as that might seem, it is important lesson for them.
  Most importantly, you need to stop shying away from guns and teach yourself gun safety, which will mean getting involved in his sport to some degree.  My wife was not into guns at all, but I had my stuff locked up and safe.  As soon as we had kids, she knew I knew the risks of having kids and guns.  Not long ago, I asked her to get her gun license, which required her to do all the mandatory training.  Now she is armed with the knowledge to keep her and the kids safe from accidents. >
  
  Hey born and raised Texan here, your husband is absolutely right. While there are dangers I was thought from the age of 6 how to correctly use a gun, when I was and wasn't allowed to use one, not to look down the barrel if there's a misfire, not ever point it at someone else even if it's not loaded, to always treat it like it is loaded, and more importantly they are not toys you can screw around with without consequences. I never broke the rules because I knew what could happen if I did, and a good gun safe will not open easily. What I would suggest is go all out on a very solid gun case, get good highly rated chamber locks(it goes into where the magazine goes and goes out of the little space that a shell ejects out of and locks to stop it from even putting in the magazine), keep the ammo and and other stuff separately. And teach them with extreme caution and supervision. >
  
  The only people who have accidental gun deaths in their house are the people who don’t respect the weapon enough to hide it, lock it, unload it and the people that don’t teach their kids to respect the weapon.
  As someone else pointed out, kids stabbing each other pretending they have swords is not a concern because you teach them from early on that knives are potentially dangerous and that they may not touch them/play with them. 
  It’s the same for guns, the kids that are taught to respect them, don’t play with them >
  
  I do not live in Europe, I live in the USA.
  My dad raised me with guns. When I was a small child I would go to the range and out hunting with him (as in just follow him around, I didn't have a gun). After a while of this (and seeing how much respect he gave the guns) and years of having safety drilled into my head he let me hold a gun that was unloaded. He immediately showed me how to verify it was unloaded and to make sure every gun I ever pick up is unloaded every time I pick it up and how to hold it safely.
  After a year of this and seeing that I was always responsible he took me to a shooting range and let me fire the gun. He loaded a single shot, safely on, and walked me through using that.
  Multiple of these trips and seeing that I'm constantly extremely careful about the gun and I can have several shots in it.
  Next he takes me to a hunter safety class and I get certified
  Next we go hunting together at about age 12. He gives me my ammo and I give it back to him at the end of the day and we stay together the entire time.
  Finally, in my late teens after hunting with him for several years I am allowed to hunt "alone". He is still nearby, just not right next to me. He will walk me to a tree stand or something.
  In rural areas I know the above schedule can be compressed because they simply have more hours of training per year with guns. The point is that we trained a LOT in order to be safe with the guns.
  If this is what your husband will do then great it should be perfectly safe. If he instead is not going put the time and work into teaching your kid to be safe around guns then there will be a lot more risk.
  If I had been stupid and wanted to show off a gun to my friends, I would have been verifying that it was unloaded when I picked it up and each time I handed it to someone else and I would have still been paranoid about it. Finally I would have walked people through how to be safe with the gun and if anyone tried to point it in an unsafe direction I would have demanded it back and got an adult if they wouldn't give it back (and it wouldn't have had ammo in it either). The safety mindset was DRILLED into me hard. >
  
  My argument isn’t about guns at all per se, but about “unnecessary danger” in general. 
  Leaving the house to attend school is an unnecessary danger nowadays, thanks to technology. Riding a bike is unnecessary danger. Playing sports is unnecessary danger, compared to exercising in a home gym. Eating unfamiliar food is unnecessary danger. Meeting strangers is unnecessary danger. 
  To the extent that becoming a complete person with a fulfilling, enjoyable life is “necessary”, risk is necessary. We can’t rule things out based solely on the existence of some tiny amount of risk totally disproportionate to the reward we derive from it. We have to accept some amount of “unnecessary” danger in our lives or we’d never bother living. >
  
  Homes that have swimming pools are 100x more likely to have someone drown than homes without. But if you put a 10 foot fence around the pool, what happens to those odds? If you only allow your children to swim under your supervision, what happens to the odds even further? If you discipline yourself to not drink alcohol while swimming, do you reduce the risk for accident even for people allowed?
  There is nothing different with firearms in the house. It's up to the owner to offset the inherit risk and probability of a firearm accident in a home in which a firearm exist. The need for self-defense can quickly be outweighed thru lazy, risk prone firearm ownership.
  The absolute BIGGEST mistake gun owners make, and I mean the biggest and most un-talked about poor decision - is fixating on a price.
  "I need a gun for self-defense"... and they associate a $400 budget to buy a handgun and box of ammo and look at problems solved. Forgetting things like: Storage safes, training ammunition, training classes. A lot of people who are scared and quickly getting into firearm ownership see a one stop solution in a firearm, when ownership is so much more and requires continual commitment to skill develop and safety. Shooting skills are perishable and a slip in safety is dangerous.
  New gun owners, often fearful ones, look at a firearm as immediate threat reducer without ever contemplating the increased probability to inflict injury/death to themselves thru accident. Same with pool owners. However, there is obviously a larger emotional response to gun ownership than pool ownership, and that's ok, guns and swimming aren't for everyone.
  So to CMV, you have to be convinced by your husband that he is mature enough, that you are financially able to take on this potential venture from day 1 correctly and that he is willing to commit continual time and learning to this and he's not trying to simply buy a "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. >
  
  Let's look at it from the US point of view.  There are over 400 million guns in the US, and in 2020 there were 500 accidental/preventable shootings in the US.  That is all kinds of accidental shootings.  That is an extremely small number.
  So unless your husband is extremely negligent with the guns, the odds of you kid, opening the safe, correctly loading the right kind of ammo into it, racking the gun, figuring out the safety, potentially removing the trigger lock, and then firing at someone are extremely small. >
  
  Where are you getting the 500 accidental shootings in a year, are you sure you aren't looking at fatalities and not all shootings? >
  
  As an American, if you think we have 500 fatalities from guns per year here, you’re on crack. >
  
  500 fatalities per year due to accidental shootings. >
  
  We don’t really have data on the number of unintentional shootings, but yes, it causes around 500 fatalities per year. >
  
  I thought so, so the original commenter.is definitely wrong in saying there were only 500 accidental shootings in the year as at least some of them, possibly the majority, would be non lethal. >
  
  That's all well and good, but "self-terminations" are higher in households that have a gun, as are murders. >
  
  gun is easy, why would i use anything else if i was going to self delete >
  
  Just fucking say "kill yourself." The euphemism isn't fooling anyone.
  And you're missing the point: It's not that "people choose to kill themselves with guns more than knives if there's one in the home" it's "more people kill themselves if there's a gun in the home." >
  
  Multiple studies have shown that having guns in the home makes you less safe, not more. Here's a popular press write-up of one of them, from the authors themselves.
  
  People living with handgun owners died by homicide at twice the rate of their neighbors in gun-free homes. 
  
  The TL;DR of the research is that they make suicide easier and therefore more likely. Aside from self-harm, you're also more likely to use them on a family member than an intruder...mistaken identity, arguments, et cetera.
  American gun nuts will claim that all of this is false or irrelevant, but they don't care about facts or lives. >
  
  It’s basically saying “if you have a gun in the home you’re more likely going to have an accident with a gun”. It’s like saying “if you have milk in your home you’re more likely to spill milk than if you didn’t have any milk”. It’s kind of a “no shit” statistic. 
  There’s a lot of people who have no idea what they’re doing with a firearm. Gun safety is one of the simplest things in the world and you can teach it to someone usually in a matter of minutes. There’s always going to be people who are negligent in the world. The idea that you’re more likely to die from a homicide because of a gun in your home is a very skewed statistic. You’re more likely to die if someone in your home is having some sort of mental breakdown and wants to kill everyone. Or if they’re a criminal and shouldn’t even be owning a gun. Or if someone breaks in and uses your gun against you because you don’t know what you’re doing. Or they’re depressed and suicidal. Or a bunch of other factors. It’s not just gun=death. It’s gun+x+y=death. 
  If you and your housemates are all trustworthy sane individuals that are confident in using the gun then there should be no issue with having a gun around. It is a big responsibility though and you need to train and understand the responsibility and that’s why a lot of people have accidents >
  
  
  It’s basically saying “if you have a gun in the home you’re more likely going to have an accident with a gun”
  
  Nope.
  It's literally saying "if you have a gun in the home, you're more likely to die."
  
  It’s kind of a “no shit” statistic. 
  
  Only if you completely misunderstand and/or misrepresent it...
  
  The idea that you’re more likely to die from a homicide because of a gun in your home is a very skewed statistic. 
  
  Why? Because you don't like it? How is it "skewed?"
  
  It’s not just gun=death. It’s gun+x+y=death. 
  
  Literally no one is saying that a gun is the only factor in a death.
  You're pretending it's not a factor at all, though, which is completely untrue.
  I know, I know. It will "never happen to you or someone you love."
  (Until it does.)
  
  If you and your housemates are all trustworthy sane individuals that are confident in using the gun then there should be no issue with having a gun around. It is a big responsibility though and you need to train and understand the responsibility and that’s why a lot of people have accidents
  
  Are you saying that murder and suicide are "accidents?" >
  
  I have multiple guns in my home with my family members for years. Never even came close to having an accident or murder or suicide or anything of any kind. 
  If you have a gun in the home you’re more likely to be hurt in some way with a gun…. It’s a no shit statistic. 
  You shouldn’t follow statistics when making life choices. Everything breaks down to an individual level. No one’s circumstances are the same. If you have suicidal tendencies maybe don’t get a firearm. If you aren’t confident and don’t train then maybe you shouldn’t have a firearm or keep it locked away. If you have kids in the house and can’t afford proper safety then don’t get a firearm. 
  If you’re a sane good person who is going to put the time in to learn safety and to train and understand how a firearm should be used and when it should be used, then go for it. 
  If you drive a car you’re more likely to die in a car crash. If you have bleach in the house you’re more likely to die from some chemical gas made by the wrong combination of chemicals. If you have power tools in the house you’re more likely to die from a power tool. If you have opioid prescriptions you’re more likely to die from an opioid overdose. If you have a dog you’re more likely to die from a dog mauling. If you have an old house you’re more likely to die in a fire from an electrical accident. If you live in Florida you’re more likely to die from a hurricane. I could go on and on. 
  Just because a statistic says something doesn’t mean that statistic will directly apply to you. That’s not the way statistics are supposed to be interpreted.
  A bunch of people in some specific places getting murdered with firearms while they have firearms in the home or people being negligent with firearms is what makes those statistics what they are. If you don’t have a firearm in the home you’re more likely to not be able to defend yourself properly either. It’s just another statistic to shit on gun owners. Because we don’t sit there and talk about the statistics of everything we own and everything we do that can cause you to die >
  
  
  I have multiple guns in my home with my family members for years. Never even came close to having an accident or murder or suicide or anything of any kind. 
  
  Ah, the ol' "my anecdote is better than your facts" approach.
  
  If you have a gun in the home you’re more likely to be hurt in some way with a gun…. It’s a no shit statistic. 
  
  Dude. I literally just addressed this. It's BS.
  Forgive me if I stop reading and don't reply to you any more. >
  
  Go ahead. All I’m saying is we don’t live our lives based on statistics for a vast majority of things. But when it comes to firearms people want to point out the statistics, that don’t even necessarily apply to you personally because there’s a million factors involved in what causes violence. You have to weigh the risks on an individual level and what applies to you. 
  The way you immediately treat the conversation as an attack or like I’m some idiot you can’t reason with shows you’re also biased on this topic. >
  
  
  All I’m saying is we don’t live our lives based on statistics for a vast majority of things.
  
  I mean, I do.
  I get vaccinated, because I'm way, way more likely to die from Covid than from the shot.
  I wear a seatbelt, because it's way, way more likely to save my life than to get me into trouble.
  And I'm aware that owning a gun makes you less safe, not more.
  No amount of you misunderstanding or intentionally misrepresenting statistics will change any of the facts.
  It just means that you're less safe.
  
  hat don’t even necessarily apply to you personally because there’s a million factors involved in what causes violence
  
  Yeah, because you always know before people choose self-harm, right?
  
  The way you immediately treat the conversation as an attack 
  
  I mean, you're dismissing numbers out-of-hand, and then when you can't dismiss them any more, you claim they're irrelevant.
  I care more about facts than your feelings, I'm afraid.
  
  or like I’m some idiot
  
  So if you didn't completely misunderstand the findings...even after I corrected you...then were you were intentionally misrepresenting the statistics on gun deaths in order to further your argument?
  
  shows you’re also biased on this topic
  
  Yes. The peer-reviewed, scientific research that I shared and built my argument on shows that I'm "also biased." 
  Therefore, it doesn't matter if you are. Have I got that right?
  And then you ask why I treat you as though you're here blindly arguing one side of things...
  Did it ever occur to you that American gun nuts are all over these types of threads any time they come up, with equally bad arguments?
  And that people are maybe a little sick of the fact that some people put their hobby above the value of human life?
  And I don't know you. I don't care if you smoke, or drink heavily, or own a gun.
  But if you're online pretending that there aren't risks to those things, people will correct you.
  Because you're fucking lying, and putting other people's lives at risk as you do so.
  Anyway, you won't change your mind, and your anecdotes don't have a hope in hell of changing mine, so I'll let you have the last word. >
  
  You’re way too angry at someone having a different opinion than you on a sub called change my view…
  I never insulted you, I never said you were dumb or wrong even, I never said the statistics aren’t real, or anything at all that you’re acting like I did. 
  You’re just calling gun owners gun nuts and getting sweaty about it. 
  ALL IM SAYING is that yes there’s a big risk in owning a gun, but there’s a big risk in owning and doing a lot of things. We don’t base our lives around statistics we do what we feel is right individually. I own a gun because I live in a kind of sketchy area, I don’t have kids at home, the people around me are in healthy mindstates, I’ve had homeless people or whoever else come on to my property at weird times etc.  vast majority of the time the gun is a deterrent and never even has to be used. 
  There’s also a massive number of unreported defensive uses of firearms. Anywhere from a few thousand to a few million every year. But it’s super hard to find that information. So weighing the odds against the statistics saying that you’re more likely to be killed owning a firearm is kind of hard when you don’t have complete data saying how many times people defend themselves using a firearm. 
  I just have a difference of opinion than you. I respect your opinion but I don’t respect the “I’m right everyone else is wrong” attitude in a sub that’s literally about changing peoples views. Not everyone is going to think the same way I’m sorry to tell you
  Yelling at people and treating them like shit when they have a difference of opinion isn’t going to make people want to listen or side with you >
  
  Could you maybe keep them at your father in law’s house as a compromise? >
  
  That is basically what we do now. But since my in-laws are moving farther away from us, my husband would like to have some guns at our place. Furthermore, at some point it's possible we will inherit the guns from him - which is another story. But that hopefully won't happen for some time yet. >
  
  I grew up in the USA, in a rural part of Texas, one of the more armed parts of a very armed nation.
  I grew up around guns, shooting guns, from a young age. They weren’t some magical thing I couldn’t touch.
  If I wanted to see a gun or fire a gun, I asked my dad or my grandfather, and in time it happened.
  I don’t hide my guns from my kids. They are kept in a safe place, but my son and daughter see my gun all the time, at least the one I carry on a daily basis. (Where I live you can carry concealed without a permit, but I still keep my permit up and current) They aren’t some magical thing, they are a very dangerous tool, one to be understood.
  My son fired my .45 and an AR-15 when he was six, he is now 13 and he doesn’t ask about the guns. My daughter is six and she will shoot one of them soon.
  Can there be danger? Yes, but there is always danger, we mitigate it as much as we can.
  Let me ask a follow up question to you:
  After the invasion, Ukraine gave out a lot of guns to their citizens hoping they would help save the nation from Russian invasion. Do you think a nation is safer from invasion with or without privately held guns?
  You have Russia not so far away who has shown a willingness to invade on the flimsiest of reasoning. They aren’t likely to win in Ukraine, but what if they did? And do we think Putin is the last tyrant left on the planet? What if your own country’s government tried to go to tyranny?
  At least where I live we accept and mitigate the risks as much as we can, while keeping guns around to mitigate other risks. >
  
  Not trying to change your mind, but here are some tips from a Texan with a lot of land (guns are basically a necessity) and 2 kids:
  1: Gun safe is a must - but the ticket is to not have a single point of failure on security. Gun safe for guns, ammo safe for ammo. Even if the kids get into one safe (which the odds are astronomical that would ever happen), the odds of them getting into both are non-existent. For me, the gun safe is in a code locked closet. The gun safe has a combo, and the ammo safe is in a separate location and only opens with a key.
  2: If you've ever told a kid "no", you know that whatever they can't have suddenly becomes 100 percent more interesting. My kids are allowed to handle and shoot guns anytime they ask. I stop what I'm doing, and we go check them out. They can handle them when they're with me, but if they make a mistake, I explain what the mistake was and we put the gun away until next time (obviously always unloaded)
  3: When they are big enough to start shooting, if you bring a high caliber gun, they will quickly lose interest. They're extremely loud and the kick HURTS! That will turn them off of guns faster than almost anything.
  
  Try not to scare them. Guns are tools, like power drills. Both are dangerous if handled improperly, but that's all the more reason to educate them. Do you want their first experience with a gun to be when they grow up, move away, and you're not around to teach them how to use them safely and responsibly?   It's better to educate than to scare them and keep them ignorant. >
  
  I wouldn't have guns in a house with children, all the studies show danger, better to store at a gun club, why risk it. >
  
  Have you read this studies?
  The vast majority of gun deaths in homes with guns are the spouses shooting each other.   It's very uncommon for there to be any type of other death.  The estimates are that anywhere between 300-1000 kids are killed each year by guns, and the "accidental" deaths are thought to be under 500.    Yet there are 22 million kids living in homes with guns.   So the chances of it happening...... VERY SMALL >
  
  Not worth the risk, imagine a child in your house dying from a gunshot, that's a disaster that would reverberate through the generations. >
  
  Im in USA. The only people whos kids get into their guns and end up killing themselves or someone else are the children of irresponsible or stupid parents. If you take them out to clean them, don't take the ammo out too. Don't tell your kids the combination to the safe or give them the key.
  Its seriously that simple. In addition, if you teach them how to use them safely and instill in them how dangerous they are, when they get older you wont have to worry as much about them being sneaky enough to get into them and causing trouble. >
  
  
  The only people whos kids get into their guns and end up killing themselves or someone else are the children of irresponsible or stupid parents.
  
  Not one of them would have admitted to being irresponsible or stupid before the accident. 
  I know a kid from a hunting home who shot himself in the foot when he was 12, and hoo-wee do his parents get mad if you suggest some extra care/responsibility would have prevented it. >
  
  I have grown up in a community that has guns, my friends all had guns at home, I had guns at home, etc.
  We have never had an issue with safety. No intended shooters, no accidental shootings, no damage to anyone or anything unintentionally. However, there was a couple home defense situations that were solved by non-lethal shootings.
  If you have proper gun safes, don’t share codes with kids, and keep a sharp eye on children while they are using guns while teaching responsibility, safety, and respect of the weapon then you shouldn’t have any issues.
  Tbh I think with the current state of the world (especially in Europe) every person should learn to use a gun in a safe scenario at least a few times in their lives. That on top of hunting, sport, and general knowledge in the realm of firearms >
  
  So long as the guns are stored in a locked safe, unloaded, and with the ammunition either high up or I’m the safe, guns are rarely a danger. Idk how old your children are, but I have two under 10 and mine are stored in a basic lock and key safe. My kids are extremely curious, but I’ve made that area a no-go and explained it to them as best I can. I have never had issues. A gun is a tool and if you properly educate your children and take appropriate safe storage seriously, they will pose no harm to you or your family. >
  
  Anyone foolish enough to have guns just lying around is a fool. Most owners aren't like that however. >
  
  Falling has killed more children than accidental firearm deaths. Are you going to take all the tables and chairs and stairs out of your home? Obviously not. You teach your kids to not climb on those things because if they do, they will get hurt. With kids around, I think having them locked up is a step that could be taken but a bigger step is to teach the kids to be safe with them. Coupled together an accident should be borderline impossible. 
  There is a small chance that your husband is concerned about defensive use but just doesn’t want to start an argument or worry you about something that can go wrong. Like it or not there are bad people out in the world and having the advantage could mean the difference to him between your kids lives and a criminals life. 
  People need to remember that the analogy to knives is a great one because I can comfortably live without knives in my daily life, it might be hard to cut food with a fork but it can be done. When I’m at work, I keep a knife on me, I have had plenty of times where I forgot it and it was very inconvenient without it. I would imagine the same would be true with a firearm if someone were to attack me or my family/friends. >
  
  I know my suggestion requires a little bit of an investment, but if you're keen on safety it's fool proof (unless you plan to raise heist geniuses). 
  You'll need 2 safes that lock via key.  And at least one lock box/small tiny safe (something with a number lock will work). 
  Now you have a safe for ammo and a safe for guns. Take the gun safe key and put it in a lock box.  If you like, get a second lock box for the ammo key. And hide both both in rooms where your kids will be unlikely to hang out (you can also put the gun safe key lock box inside the ammo safe.  If the ammo key lock box is overkill, I'd just suggest having it on your person at all times (like on your house key chain). 
  I grew up never having touched a gun until I was 21 and my partner has been shooting since age 8.  This is how his parents kept him safe, and how we'll probably keep our kids safe someday.  Also if you haven't gotten some hands on time with a gun, you should. It'll help you relay important safety information and you and your partner can be on the same page! Remember,  you don't have to like it, but you are responsible for being informed if these items are in your house! >
  
  What you are looking for is rather a way to find a compromise with your husband, more than changing your view, which seems moderate enough to find a way.
  I live in France, and there is gun control. The gun has to be stored in a safe; the ammo must be stored in a different place; and the firing pin or a critical part that I cant find a translation for must also be stored separately.
  It still is a threat, as the gun could be seen as functional by a 3rd party and a tragedy may ensue if there is a wrong reaction to this, but accidents with the weapon itself can be limited a lot this way. >
  
  So you are worried that somehow your small children will. Find out what the safe combination is, input it into the safe correctly, select a gun, load it, chamber a round , switch the safety off, and shoot themselves?
  Or if they are out for use they'll manage to do all the above minus having to get it out of the safe.
  And that when they're older your second generation gun enjoying husband won't have taught them that they are not a toy to be brought out at random to play with. Especially when it's loaded  or that they won't have grasped the concept of if you point this at something and pull the trigger the thing you pointed it at will die?
  Honestly I think you'll be a good mother by having this worry. Buy I think the worry is completely unfounded and your husband is right. A gun is a tool a dangerous tool but a tool nonetheless. With proper respect and education it's no more dangerous than a kitchen knife or circular saw. 
  I think that him wanting to get a safe is his way of compromise and it's a very responsible decision. >
  
  
  My view is that while we can't comfortably live without a knife, we sure can without a gun.
  
  So you don't mind putting your kids in danger as long as not doing so would be an inconvenience for you. Wonderful. >
  
  Knives are a fundamental part of human society that people use every day.
  Guns are, in this instance, a dangerous toy for OP's husband.
  OP is completely right. You can't live without knives, but guns are a recreational luxury. >
  
  Guns kept locked in a secure safe vs knives sitting around freely. Or dangerous chemicals. Or car keys. Or...
  The amount of things that could easily cause harm/death to kids that are in the average home is pretty staggering. People don't keep them locked in a safe when they have kids. They could, if safety was the absolute top priority. I don't see why we couldn't live without them within easy access to children 24/7. 
  What is the solution most people use? Teaching their kids that those things can be dangerous and that they aren't toys to be played with. >
  
  All it takes is one mistake or getting complacent. OP can assume their husband will never make one or get complacent with safety. But personally, I'm not convinced gun deaths in children are only the result of terrible parents. >
  
  
  All it takes is one mistake 
  
  Which is true for many dangerous household items. A gun requires ammunition to present a high level of danger. Without it, they are essentially paper weights. Ammo in a locked safe, guns in another locked safe. If you know kids who can crack multiple safes you have some amazing children around you. Leaving multiple safes unlocked while leaving your children unsupervised is more of a chain of mistakes in which it could have been prevented by any one of them not being made.
  
  I'm not convinced gun deaths in children are only the result of terrible parents
  
  Of course not. Mistakes happen. Just like kids dying in car accidents isn't only the result of terrible drivers. The idea is to mitigate the risk as much as possible. Hell, where I live we let teenagers drive cars down the road at 70 mph. One wrong move could cause massive amounts of death/injury/destruction. >
  
  This is sidestepping the reality that mistakes do happen, and children are dying from gun accidents. More than any other household item. More than the car accidents you use as comparison. >
  
  
  More than the car accidents you use as comparison.
  
  Source? >
  
  
  firearm-related injuries
  
  This is not the same as accidents. Someone shooting you in the head on purpose would be a death from a firearm-related injury. >
  
  Guns aren't particularly special.  There are plenty of potentially lethal situations your children could get into if allowed to.  They could be hit by a car, electrocuted by an outlet, fall down some stairs, choke on a toy, etc.
  The entire toddler period (age ~2 to 4) they are mobile, curious, naive, and persistent... your job as a parent is to constantly steer them away from danger and teach them the right way to deal with it.
  If you store and handle your guns according to reasonably safe practices (unloaded, locked in a safe, trigger locked, etc) and teach older kids gun safety I don't think they present any more danger than other household risks.  Obviously if you have a loaded handgun in your bedside table or in the closet you are putting the kid at risk, but that risk is easily mitigated by simply not doing that. >
  
  You're not wrong, there's an increased risk of death and injury when you look at things from a society-wide scale. It is not irrational at all to have that perspective.
  But if you understand those risks, take them seriously, and use best practices of securing and safeguarding your weapons (rather, if you trust your husband enough to), then you will do your best to lower the risks.
  Put 100 people in a room who own guns, and a handful of those people are sloppy gunowners. Do your best not to be one of them, and ensure your husband takes you seriously if you find him slipping. >
  
  It’s a mixture of keeping them put away and also teaching them how to use it guns are dangerous yes but if you know how to use them they’re not more dangerous than having knives in your house or lighting a candle to make the room smell nice >
  
  Having a vehicle is dangerous to kids, having cleaning products is dangerous to kids. Guns are just as dangerous as anything else. >
  
  It is an equation, with variables that create an infinity of possibilities. 
  Those variables include the security of the gun (the way it is stored), the possibility anyone could get their hands on it, the likelihood of self injury, and the likelihood that someone would use it against you, among hundreds of others. 
  In America, people came to blows over the use of a vaccine that would save their lives, and continue to call the virus a hoax, millions of deaths in. 
  The danger posed by a firearm is so incredibly infinitesimal compared to the danger of the virus that it falls into the acceptable risk category. Yet folks will argue both sides all day. >
  
  My gun are in a locked safe. The safe is drilled into a solid wood dresser. That dresser is drilled into the studs of the wall. The safe is also drilled into the studs of the wall. It is spring loaded and auto closes and locks. I leave the key at work, as I use the pin pad to open it. I don't see a conceivable scenario in which kids would access the guns inside. >
  
  I’m with you. No guns in the home of my kids are there. This goes for our home and anyone else’s that they spend significant amount of time with. >
  
  Grew up my step dad told me where he keeps his shotgun, ammo, and how to properly use the gun at 8. I never considered using it as a toy or using it to kill anyone but there were 2 times that I went upstairs and grabbed it because we were worried about an intruder (both were false alarms). It always made me feel way more safe having the gun in the house.
  Yes there is danger but we also don't as often hear about when the gun saves a life or prevents an altercation altogether. Especially on Reddit where those stories get suppressed because of politics >
  
  Guns are a lot easier to secure from kids than all the other things in your house that are a danger to them. Largely because you need to use many dangerous things multiple times a day. A gun for hobbies can be completely hidden and carried in & out of the house concealed. Kids don't start cracking safes until they are teens. Source: I'm a parent of two resourceful kids >
  
  are those other things things that can kill someone instantly? >
  
  Why not teach them how to responsibly use and maintain a weapon. Teach them early so that they have respect for it. >
  
  If your kids get into a locked safe please hire them out as security experts
  Jokes aside the guns should be unloaded with bullets stocked elsewhere also out of reach and the kids should be taught proper gun safety. I also assume the safe would be a combination one, and that it could be placed in an area where the kids don’t go w/o supervision (attic, a closet in your bedroom, garage etc) >
  
  You keep guns locked up.
  When cleaning or handling the firearm when not in use, you never have ammo anywhere near.  Keep it locked in the safe.
  Owning a firearm comes with responsibility to handle properly.
  Being a parent is about teaching your kids right from wrong and for proper handling and what to do in an emergency.
  I've been shooting since probably ~5.  Even as children, my brother and I were familiar where the guns were and how to operate them.  Our parents raised us to be responsible and taught us how to be safe.
  Your children will be safe so long as you are an effective parent. >
  
  Unloaded, holster with a lock, thumb safety, two part trigger...These are all standard safety measures for gun ownership. Unless you're a irresponsible parent. >
  
  Your husband makes valid points.
  Teaching, especially at a young age, to properly handle, use, and store guns and there should not be as much of a “risk” as you’re envisioning in your head. 
  Driving a car to an entertainment destination puts people in unnecessary danger. 
  If your kids are going out of their way to break into a safe after enlightening them on firearms, I imagine there is some other underlying issue that you are sidestepping to address. >
  
  This primarily comes down to properly educating the kids about gun safety. As we have universally seen with abstinence-only sex ed, refusing to talk about a subject and treating it as taboo only encourages a child’s curiosity. Making the effort to teach the kids how to use the guns and how to safely handle them as soon as they are old enough, as well as allowing them to accompany to shooting ranges, etc at age appropriate times, is huge. My dad has a gun safe, but there was never any concern that me or my brother would “get into it” and hurt anyone, because we were taught from a young age how to appropriately handle the guns. >
  
  If you don't tell the kid you have one or explain what it's used for there shouldn't be a problem >
  
  I was raised by my grandparents and grew up in a house with a gun room. Fully stocked with guns, ammunition and knives of all sorts. Handguns, snipers, shotguns, semi-automatics, you name it. It was very important to my grandpa that my brother and I learn all about gun safety and he would regularly take us out to the desert or range to do some shooting. 
  None of those guns were locked away and neither my brother or me ever played around with them. It was just made clear from day one that that was not allowed. We were not even allowed to point Nerf guns at each other. We were expected to respect the weapons. Taught that they are not toys but tools. And if we ever got caught disrespecting them we would get a well deserved whooping and talking to. >
  
  Like many things, they can be as safe as the people who own them make them.
  Condoms are extremely effective at preventing pregnancy, pretty darn close to 100%, but their advertised effectiveness is much lower as it is stated to be the success rate with typical use.
  I have an aunt that keeps a loaded gun in her purse at all times, but at family gatherings just tosses her purse in the corner of the room.
  It is 100% true that a gun with no ammo can’t shoot anyone, but it is 100% true that a gun with a round left it in that someone thinks is empty can kill.  So it comes down to how responsible you can be with the gun. >
  
  Here in the US, guns are very common, and guns are significantly less dangerous than swimming pools. This is true even including all of the idiots who are blatantly unsafe. 
  If you are more careful than average, the risk will also be lower. Almost all of the accidental deaths are due to guns left out in the open, loaded, with very young children who don't know any better. 
  Obviously, neither you nor your husband wants that. 
  Store the guns safely. Store the ammunition separately, also secured. Teach your kids they are not a toy. The risk will be so low as to be negligible. >
  
  I'm not a big fan of guns, but I'm not sure your instinct is necessarily that rational.  There are safes that have combinations and keys.  Does your husband have a drinking problem, or something that would make you think he wouldn't always be safe with the guns?   If you have no reason to think he would be irresponsible, you may want to reconsider.  You can always agree to have the guns removed if you ever see them not handled in a way you think is safe enough. 
  And yes, the guns would have to be taken out of the safe for use and cleaning.   That would be the point of having them for recreation.  I think this falls along the line of emotional and irrational.
  But work out a compromise, as "my way or the highway" is never the key to a successful marriage. >
  
  The discussion should be how secure the safe should be.
  If your kids are smart enough to break into a good safe they are smart enough to make homemade explosives. >
  
  If you have guns in your home, then should probably take the kids out shooting sometimes so they are familiar with how to handle and use them safely. Kids who accidently shoot each other are probably kids who never held a gun. 
  Also if he has them in a safe, it's very unlikely the kids will get in there until they are older and he tells them the combination. 
  Me personally I had guns in my room since I was 6 years old, my dad didn't care if I handled them as long as I was safe with them. I knew how to check them, and I kept them unloaded, I never messed with them much unless I was planning to go shoot cans or go hunting or to show a friend. I'd never hand a friend a loaded gun. The only reason you would want a gun to have rounds in it is self defence, but even then you don't need to have one chambered. That's just a recipe for disaster. I like the peace of mind of knowing there is something more then a safety preventing the firearm from going off, if I need to use it I can chamber a round, and I'm focused on where it's pointing, I'm not worried about it falling over, etc. 
  Basically if you have kids in a house with guns, you need to take the time to teach them how dangerous they can be, and maybe how to handle them if they are going to be in contact with them. Guns aren't toys, you need to be responsible with them, you need to know how they work and how to be safe with them before you use them. >
  
  A point I don’t see here is that all the practices people are mentioning here, depend on the owner following through every time. A better gun safe would be a marginal to no reduction in risk, but slipping up even once is a huge increase in risk.  People make mistakes all the time.  People take shortcuts all the time.  Even the best intentions will slip eventually, and even the best kids are curious or fall to peer pressure, and even the most isolated house will have visitors
  I encouraged my kids to take part in the annual firearm familiarity events through Scouting when they were growing up.  It is a pretty good approach starting with sling shots for the smaller ones and working their way up to archery, rifles, shotguns as kids mature, but the safety practices are the same every year with every weapon, and they are required to repeat the safety training every year before using the weapons.  My kids know how to safely handle whatever weapon they may come across (and know what using them is like, should they decide to follow through with that).
  However I would never have firearms in my house: you could join a gun or hunting club to store, clean, use weapons.  Granted someone rural with regular usage may have other priorities, but I know the presence of firearms adds risk and I know that people sometimes slip up.  It’s not worth it. >
  
  That’s why you have multiple lines of defense. A safe, unloaded weapons, teaching everyone in the house proper safety, separation of ammo if you want, etc.   you have multiple lines of defense not just one. So that way if you had a shitty day and aren’t thinking straight, you leave the safe unlocked, the kid gets into it, they have no ammo. You catch ‘em and punish them and move on. >
  
  I have guns in my home since my 3 children were born. I have taught my children proper gun safety and how to shoot. The guns are locked up but I sleep well knowing the kids understand what guns are for and how to use them safely. Remember guns are not dangerous, stupid people with a gun are dangerous. It’s exactly the same as a car. Cars are not dangerous until an idiot gets behind the wheel. >
  
  the possibility is so low i would ignore it, example driving in a car would be more dangerous, are you not going to all your kids to be driven around, obviously the answer is no, guns are a great hobby and would likely be a good bonding between your husband and the kids. Additionally, kids have a ton of more dangerous hobbies than what you are describing. >
  
  Having a gun at home with kids is nothing short of insane.